Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

[Gerry Archer]

Here is one view of biodiesel processing on the 'net:

".the biodiesel industry and the technology have evolved. With the
professionally engineered biodiesel systems available today, the process is
simpler, safer, takes less time and yields more consistent results. So I
decided to try one of the commercially available processors--it came boxed
with all of the equipment and reagents needed to turn out consistent,
high-quality biodiesel fuel. The FuelMeister processor used here has five
fewer valves than the eight in my old homemade one. It also mixes the lye
and methanol inside the tank to prevent the chance of dangerous spills"

Biodiesel Safety
"..Yes, you can make biodiesel in a plastic bucket with little more than
some drain cleaner, gas-line de-icer and a wooden spoon, if you know what
you're doing. But it can be dangerous. Splashing lye and/or methanol into
your eyes can blind you. And electrical pumps unattended in the presence of
hundreds of gallons of flammables will make your local fire marshall
understandably nervous. In addition, poor-quality product will damage your
very expensive diesel-injection pump. Our advice? Research biodiesel
production properly before doing the mad-scientist routine."

 http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/biofuels/4332200

For more articles type:  "methanol lye biodiesel processing dangers" on
Google or another search engine.

Fuelmeister source and cost:

 http://www.azurebiodiesel.com/products.shtml

Other processors:  Type "biodiesel processors" in Google or another search
engine


From: "Benz Hogs" 

BULL FECES!  It's only not safe if you're ignorant or don't respect
methanol and lye as the chemicals they are.



On 6/8/2013 7:43 PM, Mike Esh wrote:

Processing oil into biodiesel is much more dangerous and not something I
would do my attached garage.
Michael E. Esh



ernest breakfield wrote:

that chart (if it's even accurate) seems to pretty well show one of the
problems with using xVO as fuel, but certainly not all of them. seems
pretty typical of the incomplete information and unrelated conclusions
i've seen from some WVO system vendor/manufacturers.


So Mike saves enough on fuel to pay for the car.
How about this?
A biodiesel processor wouldn't cost more than a frybrid kit and you can
run multiple cars from it.
How does the cost of the additional wear and tear (in this case, $100
used pump plus $400 labor) compare to the cost of methanol and lye for
the biodiesel?

Mitch.



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Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

[Michael Canfield]

Biggest risk I see is equipment failure causing fire.  I am willing to
admit that I am not "scientist" enough to make biodiesel of a consistant
quality.

Fitering wvo is the "lazier" way I think.

Mike
On Jun 8, 2013 11:45 PM, "Benz Hogs"  wrote:

> BULL FECES!  It's only not safe if you're ignorant or don't respect
> methanol and lye as the chemicals they are.
>
> Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
> '98 ML320 "Max" (16,xxx mi)
>
> On 6/8/2013 7:43 PM, Mike Esh wrote:
>
>> Processing oil into biodiesel is much more dangerous and not something I
>> would do my attached garage.
>>
>> Michael E. Esh
>> 231-286-2344
>>
>>
>> On Jun 8, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:
>>
>>  ernest breakfield wrote:
>>>
 that chart (if it's even accurate) seems to pretty well show one of the
 problems with using xVO as fuel, but certainly not all of them. seems
 pretty typical of the incomplete information and unrelated conclusions i've
 seen from some WVO system vendor/manufacturers.

>>>
>>>
>>> So Mike saves enough on fuel to pay for the car.
>>> How about this?
>>> A biodiesel processor wouldn't cost more than a frybrid kit and you can
>>> run multiple cars from it.
>>> How does the cost of the additional wear and tear (in this case, $100
>>> used pump plus $400 labor) compare to the cost of methanol and lye for the
>>> biodiesel?
>>>
>>> Mitch.
>>>
>>
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Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

[Rich Thomas]

Just don't talk about it on your cell phone or the webbernets. BigSis is 
watching.


--R


On 6/9/13 11:15 AM, G Mann wrote:

Very good point to be made. The materials necessary to process WVO into
Biodiesel immediately make your garage a HAZMAT site and make you subject
to all EPA and Air Quality ordinances. Methanol is a VOC, Level 1, Caustic
Soda is deadly and requires special handling [lye, common name] So it also
presents severe issues for public safety.

As the reality TV shows say: "Do NOT do this at home"

Grant... AZ


On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 5:43 PM, Mike Esh  wrote:


Processing oil into biodiesel is much more dangerous and not something I
would do my attached garage.

Michael E. Esh
231-286-2344


On Jun 8, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:


ernest breakfield wrote:

that chart (if it's even accurate) seems to pretty well show one of the

problems with using xVO as fuel, but certainly not all of them. seems
pretty typical of the incomplete information and unrelated conclusions i've
seen from some WVO system vendor/manufacturers.


So Mike saves enough on fuel to pay for the car.
How about this?
A biodiesel processor wouldn't cost more than a frybrid kit and you can

run multiple cars from it.

How does the cost of the additional wear and tear (in this case, $100

used pump plus $400 labor) compare to the cost of methanol and lye for the
biodiesel?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

[G Mann]

Very good point to be made. The materials necessary to process WVO into
Biodiesel immediately make your garage a HAZMAT site and make you subject
to all EPA and Air Quality ordinances. Methanol is a VOC, Level 1, Caustic
Soda is deadly and requires special handling [lye, common name] So it also
presents severe issues for public safety.

As the reality TV shows say: "Do NOT do this at home"

Grant... AZ


On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 5:43 PM, Mike Esh  wrote:

> Processing oil into biodiesel is much more dangerous and not something I
> would do my attached garage.
>
> Michael E. Esh
> 231-286-2344
>
>
> On Jun 8, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:
>
> > ernest breakfield wrote:
> >> that chart (if it's even accurate) seems to pretty well show one of the
> problems with using xVO as fuel, but certainly not all of them. seems
> pretty typical of the incomplete information and unrelated conclusions i've
> seen from some WVO system vendor/manufacturers.
> >
> >
> > So Mike saves enough on fuel to pay for the car.
> > How about this?
> > A biodiesel processor wouldn't cost more than a frybrid kit and you can
> run multiple cars from it.
> > How does the cost of the additional wear and tear (in this case, $100
> used pump plus $400 labor) compare to the cost of methanol and lye for the
> biodiesel?
> >
> > Mitch.
> >
> > ___
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> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
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> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
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Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

[Benz Hogs]

BULL FECES!  It's only not safe if you're ignorant or don't respect 
methanol and lye as the chemicals they are.


Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
'98 ML320 "Max" (16,xxx mi)

On 6/8/2013 7:43 PM, Mike Esh wrote:

Processing oil into biodiesel is much more dangerous and not something I would 
do my attached garage.

Michael E. Esh
231-286-2344


On Jun 8, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:


ernest breakfield wrote:

that chart (if it's even accurate) seems to pretty well show one of the 
problems with using xVO as fuel, but certainly not all of them. seems pretty 
typical of the incomplete information and unrelated conclusions i've seen from 
some WVO system vendor/manufacturers.



So Mike saves enough on fuel to pay for the car.
How about this?
A biodiesel processor wouldn't cost more than a frybrid kit and you can run 
multiple cars from it.
How does the cost of the additional wear and tear (in this case, $100 used pump 
plus $400 labor) compare to the cost of methanol and lye for the biodiesel?

Mitch.


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Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

[Dieselhead]

Only the methanol is dangerous.  Distill your own ethanol and the 
danger goes away.  You can pick up fruit and veggies to ferment from 
the same restaurants.


Processing oil into biodiesel is much more dangerous and not 
something I would do my attached garage.


Michael E. Esh
231-286-2344


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Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

[Mike Esh]

The car is in the shop. It should ready on Monday or Tuesday.  Hoping for the 
best. 

Michael E. Esh
231-286-2344


On Jun 7, 2013, at 6:36 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

> Benz Hogs wrote:
>> Virgin VO (VVO) has to be heated to 260F or higher to approach the viscosity 
>> of diesel.  See the bell curve chart here: 
>> http://bunkum.us/svo/viscosity.html  Biodiesel is the ONLY way to go.
> 
> The graph Mike Esh linked earlier seemed to say that SVO (of unnamed variety) 
> at 160° was comparable to #2 at -10°, or approaching gel point. I bet any 
> temp you can get by heating SVO or WVO with engine coolant is going to be a 
> good bit thicker than #2 at 100°.
> 
> Anyway, I hope the used pump Mike got from me works out. Shouldn't we be 
> hearing the results soon?
> 
> Mitch.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

[Mike Esh]

Processing oil into biodiesel is much more dangerous and not something I would 
do my attached garage.

Michael E. Esh
231-286-2344


On Jun 8, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

> ernest breakfield wrote:
>> that chart (if it's even accurate) seems to pretty well show one of the 
>> problems with using xVO as fuel, but certainly not all of them. seems pretty 
>> typical of the incomplete information and unrelated conclusions i've seen 
>> from some WVO system vendor/manufacturers.
> 
> 
> So Mike saves enough on fuel to pay for the car.
> How about this?
> A biodiesel processor wouldn't cost more than a frybrid kit and you can run 
> multiple cars from it.
> How does the cost of the additional wear and tear (in this case, $100 used 
> pump plus $400 labor) compare to the cost of methanol and lye for the 
> biodiesel?
> 
> Mitch.
> 
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

[Mitch Haley]

ernest breakfield wrote:
that chart (if it's even accurate) seems to pretty well show one of the 
problems with using xVO as fuel, but certainly not all of them. seems 
pretty typical of the incomplete information and unrelated conclusions 
i've seen from some WVO system vendor/manufacturers.





So Mike saves enough on fuel to pay for the car.
How about this?
A biodiesel processor wouldn't cost more than a frybrid kit and you can run 
multiple cars from it.
How does the cost of the additional wear and tear (in this case, $100 used pump 
plus $400 labor) compare to the cost of methanol and lye for the biodiesel?


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

[ernest breakfield]

that chart (if it's even accurate) seems to pretty well show one of the 
problems with using xVO as fuel, but certainly not all of them. seems 
pretty typical of the incomplete information and unrelated conclusions 
i've seen from some WVO system vendor/manufacturers.


it's a good thing you like "the challenge"!


cheers!
e


On 06/Jun/13 19:00, Michael Esh wrote:

http://www.frybrid.com/svo.htm

I have included a link to an explanation and graph of vegetable oil and diesel 
viscosity. Frybrid is the company from which I purchased my WVO system.  The 
only item I have replaced is the temperature sensor that sends the signal to 
the controller that initiates the switchover valve to begin using the vegetable 
oil fuel system.  Frybrid replaced the sensor without question.
To those interested the site also contains a multitude of data and information 
concerning the use vegetable oil as a fuel in diesel engines.  I do not have 
practical experience with any other WVO systems, however I read extensively 
about the other systems available and decided this was my best option.  That 
said, I am replacing my fuel injection pump on my 84 300D with just over (to 
the best of my knowledge)300,000 miles on it.

I enjoy collecting and using WVO in my Mercedes.  I like saving some money, 
helping the environment in a very small way, the challenge of keeping it 
working, and most of the all, the smell of veg oil in the morning. It smells 
like..well, chicken, shrimp, french fries, or fish.  It all depends on 
where I picked up the oil.

Thanks,
Mike
231-286-2344





On May 29, 2013, at 11:24 AM, G Mann wrote:


I agree that SVO viscosity is a critical element in accelerated wear of the
IP. While our natural tendency is to look for only one damage factor, in
this case, I believe the additive effect of all elements work to decrease
the useful service life of the IP.

I am active on another diesel only board that deals with Ford trucks with
Indirect Injection [pre 1994] and several members there run WVO as well as
Waste Motor Oil [50/50 blend with diesel]. What is happening with the IP's
on those applications patterns after what I've seen on others. Early
failure. Seems the average life is about 2 years instead of the average of
10 seen with Petro Diesel only.

"Run cheap fuel, buy expensive parts" seems to be the mantra.

Grant... AZ


On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 6:34 AM, Smith, Todd  wrote:


I have been following the Biodiesel and SVO community since 2004 and while
I certainly see the advantages and disadvantages to each system; Biodiesel
makes more sense in my situation.  All of the reading and listening to SVO
advocates and some that posted hard data to analyze; I believe that
viscosity is by and large the silent killer of IP.  Some of the tests that
I have seen have shown SVO heated to 180 degrees F. which should be normal
operating temperature for a properly warmed up system; showing viscosity
far in excess of cold No.2 diesel.

Mike, you don't have to take my word for it.  When you get a chance, read
the link on measuring the viscosity of motor oil at ehow;
http://www.ehow.com/how_6218753_measure-viscosity-motor-oil.html .

Simply run two tests, one for your diesel fuel at ambient temperature and
one for your SVO at the normal operating temperature that your system runs.
If there is a huge difference then your IP HAS to work harder to pump fuel
and would wear more than typical. Jim Cathy's comment about dissolved salts
and Grant's comment about pH balances could certainly over a long term have
some effects, but IMHO viscosity is the real issue.  If you do test your
viscosity, please report back since I would love to see if in your
situation it is the same as has been reported in other places.

Thanks for your time.

Todd Smith

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To 

Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

[Mitch Haley]

Benz Hogs wrote:
Virgin VO (VVO) has to be heated to 260F or higher to approach the 
viscosity of diesel.  See the bell curve chart here: 
http://bunkum.us/svo/viscosity.html  Biodiesel is the ONLY way to go.


The graph Mike Esh linked earlier seemed to say that SVO (of unnamed variety) at 
160° was comparable to #2 at -10°, or approaching gel point. I bet any temp you 
can get by heating SVO or WVO with engine coolant is going to be a good bit 
thicker than #2 at 100°.


Anyway, I hope the used pump Mike got from me works out. Shouldn't we be hearing 
the results soon?


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

[Benz Hogs]

Their chart is not matched anywhere else in the industry.  It's all 
marketing hype.  Use Google to find the industry research that proves 
Frybrid wrong.


Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
'98 ML320 "Max" (166,xxx mi)

On 6/6/2013 9:00 PM, Michael Esh wrote:

http://www.frybrid.com/svo.htm

I have included a link to an explanation and graph of vegetable oil and diesel 
viscosity. Frybrid is the company from which I purchased my WVO system.  The 
only item I have replaced is the temperature sensor that sends the signal to 
the controller that initiates the switchover valve to begin using the vegetable 
oil fuel system.  Frybrid replaced the sensor without question.
To those interested the site also contains a multitude of data and information 
concerning the use vegetable oil as a fuel in diesel engines.  I do not have 
practical experience with any other WVO systems, however I read extensively 
about the other systems available and decided this was my best option.  That 
said, I am replacing my fuel injection pump on my 84 300D with just over (to 
the best of my knowledge)300,000 miles on it.

I enjoy collecting and using WVO in my Mercedes.  I like saving some money, 
helping the environment in a very small way, the challenge of keeping it 
working, and most of the all, the smell of veg oil in the morning. It smells 
like..well, chicken, shrimp, french fries, or fish.  It all depends on 
where I picked up the oil.

Thanks,
Mike
231-286-2344


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Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

[Benz Hogs]

Virgin VO (VVO) has to be heated to 260F or higher to approach the 
viscosity of diesel.  See the bell curve chart here: 
http://bunkum.us/svo/viscosity.html  Biodiesel is the ONLY way to go.


Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
'98 ML320 "Max" (166,xxx mi)

On 5/29/2013 8:34 AM, Smith, Todd wrote:

I have been following the Biodiesel and SVO community since 2004 and while I 
certainly see the advantages and disadvantages to each system; Biodiesel makes 
more sense in my situation.  All of the reading and listening to SVO advocates 
and some that posted hard data to analyze; I believe that viscosity is by and 
large the silent killer of IP.  Some of the tests that I have seen have shown 
SVO heated to 180 degrees F. which should be normal operating temperature for a 
properly warmed up system; showing viscosity far in excess of cold No.2 diesel.

Mike, you don't have to take my word for it.  When you get a chance, read the 
link on measuring the viscosity of motor oil at ehow;  
http://www.ehow.com/how_6218753_measure-viscosity-motor-oil.html .

Simply run two tests, one for your diesel fuel at ambient temperature and one 
for your SVO at the normal operating temperature that your system runs.  If 
there is a huge difference then your IP HAS to work harder to pump fuel and 
would wear more than typical. Jim Cathy's comment about dissolved salts and 
Grant's comment about pH balances could certainly over a long term have some 
effects, but IMHO viscosity is the real issue.  If you do test your viscosity, 
please report back since I would love to see if in your situation it is the 
same as has been reported in other places.

Thanks for your time.

Todd Smith


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Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

[Smith, Todd]

I certainly thought that the link was very interesting and hopefully the graph 
presented is accurate.  I know that Frybrid is well respected and I assume 
until proven otherwise that they are honest.  The graph that I saw from a 
soybean farmer seemed to show that at 180 deg F that the oil that he had was 
still pretty thick and not close to No.2 in viscosity.

Certainly, if SVO works for you then by all means continue.  For me, Biodiesel 
made more sense for my situation but YMMV.
 
Thanks for the information.

Todd



-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Michael Esh
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 10:00 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

http://www.frybrid.com/svo.htm

I have included a link to an explanation and graph of vegetable oil and diesel 
viscosity. Frybrid is the company from which I purchased my WVO system.  The 
only item I have replaced is the temperature sensor that sends the signal to 
the controller that initiates the switchover valve to begin using the vegetable 
oil fuel system.  Frybrid replaced the sensor without question.  
To those interested the site also contains a multitude of data and information 
concerning the use vegetable oil as a fuel in diesel engines.  I do not have 
practical experience with any other WVO systems, however I read extensively 
about the other systems available and decided this was my best option.  That 
said, I am replacing my fuel injection pump on my 84 300D with just over (to 
the best of my knowledge)300,000 miles on it. 

I enjoy collecting and using WVO in my Mercedes.  I like saving some money, 
helping the environment in a very small way, the challenge of keeping it 
working, and most of the all, the smell of veg oil in the morning. It smells 
like..well, chicken, shrimp, french fries, or fish.  It all depends on 
where I picked up the oil.

Thanks,
Mike
231-286-2344

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Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

[Rick Knoble]

On Jun 6, 2013, at 9:00 PM, "Michael Esh"  wrote:

> I enjoy collecting and using WVO in my Mercedes.


And how do you get the oil that you use?

Rick
Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

[Michael Esh]

http://www.frybrid.com/svo.htm

I have included a link to an explanation and graph of vegetable oil and diesel 
viscosity. Frybrid is the company from which I purchased my WVO system.  The 
only item I have replaced is the temperature sensor that sends the signal to 
the controller that initiates the switchover valve to begin using the vegetable 
oil fuel system.  Frybrid replaced the sensor without question.  
To those interested the site also contains a multitude of data and information 
concerning the use vegetable oil as a fuel in diesel engines.  I do not have 
practical experience with any other WVO systems, however I read extensively 
about the other systems available and decided this was my best option.  That 
said, I am replacing my fuel injection pump on my 84 300D with just over (to 
the best of my knowledge)300,000 miles on it. 

I enjoy collecting and using WVO in my Mercedes.  I like saving some money, 
helping the environment in a very small way, the challenge of keeping it 
working, and most of the all, the smell of veg oil in the morning. It smells 
like..well, chicken, shrimp, french fries, or fish.  It all depends on 
where I picked up the oil.

Thanks,
Mike
231-286-2344





On May 29, 2013, at 11:24 AM, G Mann wrote:

> I agree that SVO viscosity is a critical element in accelerated wear of the
> IP. While our natural tendency is to look for only one damage factor, in
> this case, I believe the additive effect of all elements work to decrease
> the useful service life of the IP.
> 
> I am active on another diesel only board that deals with Ford trucks with
> Indirect Injection [pre 1994] and several members there run WVO as well as
> Waste Motor Oil [50/50 blend with diesel]. What is happening with the IP's
> on those applications patterns after what I've seen on others. Early
> failure. Seems the average life is about 2 years instead of the average of
> 10 seen with Petro Diesel only.
> 
> "Run cheap fuel, buy expensive parts" seems to be the mantra.
> 
> Grant... AZ
> 
> 
> On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 6:34 AM, Smith, Todd  wrote:
> 
>> I have been following the Biodiesel and SVO community since 2004 and while
>> I certainly see the advantages and disadvantages to each system; Biodiesel
>> makes more sense in my situation.  All of the reading and listening to SVO
>> advocates and some that posted hard data to analyze; I believe that
>> viscosity is by and large the silent killer of IP.  Some of the tests that
>> I have seen have shown SVO heated to 180 degrees F. which should be normal
>> operating temperature for a properly warmed up system; showing viscosity
>> far in excess of cold No.2 diesel.
>> 
>> Mike, you don't have to take my word for it.  When you get a chance, read
>> the link on measuring the viscosity of motor oil at ehow;
>> http://www.ehow.com/how_6218753_measure-viscosity-motor-oil.html .
>> 
>> Simply run two tests, one for your diesel fuel at ambient temperature and
>> one for your SVO at the normal operating temperature that your system runs.
>> If there is a huge difference then your IP HAS to work harder to pump fuel
>> and would wear more than typical. Jim Cathy's comment about dissolved salts
>> and Grant's comment about pH balances could certainly over a long term have
>> some effects, but IMHO viscosity is the real issue.  If you do test your
>> viscosity, please report back since I would love to see if in your
>> situation it is the same as has been reported in other places.
>> 
>> Thanks for your time.
>> 
>> Todd Smith
>> 
>> Confidentiality Note: The information contained in this message
>> may be privileged and confidential. If this e-mail contains
>> protected health information, you are hereby notified that any
>> dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is
>> strictly prohibited,except as permitted by law. If you have
>> received this communication in error, please notify the sender
>> immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your
>> computer.  Thank you.
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> ___
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> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

[Mitch Haley]

Mike Esh wrote:

Mitch,
I am interested in the injection pump. My mechanic would like it to be as close to my existing pump as possible. 
How do I determine what pump I have on my car and what pump you have. I cannot see number on the pump I have. Would the VIN or Number Plate located under the hood near the radiator help identify the pump. 
I have a pump from an 85 wagon and it does look different than the 84 pump. 


I think mine is from an '83 or '84, but I really can't remember, and no longer 
have the emails from when I bought it. I'm 99% sure it was a turbo W123. I'm 
100% sure it's turbo with an unmolested ALDA. I can pick it up this afternoon 
and look for the mfg tags.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

[Alex Chamberlain]

On May 29, 2013 8:54 AM, "Michael Canfield"  wrote:
>
> Rather economically feasible with an
> old Benz.  Whole cars with working
> pumps are usually under a grand
> around here.  Doesn't take long to
> add up
> $1000 worth of fuel @ four bucks a
> gallon.
>

You are making the all-too-common error of failing to value your time.  How
much does it cost you to collect the WVO, process it, maintain a more
complex fuel system in the car, replace parts regularly as they fail more
often?  Don't say that your labor is free... you could always be doing
something else (what economists call the opportunity cost).

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

[Mike Esh]

Mitch,
I am interested in the injection pump. My mechanic would like it to be as close 
to my existing pump as possible. 
How do I determine what pump I have on my car and what pump you have. I cannot 
see number on the pump I have. Would the VIN or Number Plate located under the 
hood near the radiator help identify the pump. 
I have a pump from an 85 wagon and it does look different than the 84 pump. 
Thanks,
Mike


Michael E. Esh
231-286-2344


On May 29, 2013, at 9:34 AM, "Smith, Todd"  wrote:

> I have been following the Biodiesel and SVO community since 2004 and while I 
> certainly see the advantages and disadvantages to each system; Biodiesel 
> makes more sense in my situation.  All of the reading and listening to SVO 
> advocates and some that posted hard data to analyze; I believe that viscosity 
> is by and large the silent killer of IP.  Some of the tests that I have seen 
> have shown SVO heated to 180 degrees F. which should be normal operating 
> temperature for a properly warmed up system; showing viscosity far in excess 
> of cold No.2 diesel.
> 
> Mike, you don't have to take my word for it.  When you get a chance, read the 
> link on measuring the viscosity of motor oil at ehow;  
> http://www.ehow.com/how_6218753_measure-viscosity-motor-oil.html .
> 
> Simply run two tests, one for your diesel fuel at ambient temperature and one 
> for your SVO at the normal operating temperature that your system runs.  If 
> there is a huge difference then your IP HAS to work harder to pump fuel and 
> would wear more than typical. Jim Cathy's comment about dissolved salts and 
> Grant's comment about pH balances could certainly over a long term have some 
> effects, but IMHO viscosity is the real issue.  If you do test your 
> viscosity, please report back since I would love to see if in your situation 
> it is the same as has been reported in other places.
> 
> Thanks for your time.
> 
> Todd Smith 
> 
> Confidentiality Note: The information contained in this message 
> may be privileged and confidential. If this e-mail contains 
> protected health information, you are hereby notified that any 
> dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is 
> strictly prohibited,except as permitted by law. If you have 
> received this communication in error, please notify the sender 
> immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your 
> computer.  Thank you.
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

[Michael Canfield]

Rather economically feasible with an old Benz.  Whole cars with working
pumps are usually under a grand around here.  Doesn't take long to add up
$1000 worth of fuel @ four bucks a gallon.

Mike
On May 29, 2013 11:24 AM, "G Mann"  wrote:

> I agree that SVO viscosity is a critical element in accelerated wear of the
> IP. While our natural tendency is to look for only one damage factor, in
> this case, I believe the additive effect of all elements work to decrease
> the useful service life of the IP.
>
> I am active on another diesel only board that deals with Ford trucks with
> Indirect Injection [pre 1994] and several members there run WVO as well as
> Waste Motor Oil [50/50 blend with diesel]. What is happening with the IP's
> on those applications patterns after what I've seen on others. Early
> failure. Seems the average life is about 2 years instead of the average of
> 10 seen with Petro Diesel only.
>
> "Run cheap fuel, buy expensive parts" seems to be the mantra.
>
> Grant... AZ
>
>
> On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 6:34 AM, Smith, Todd  wrote:
>
> > I have been following the Biodiesel and SVO community since 2004 and
> while
> > I certainly see the advantages and disadvantages to each system;
> Biodiesel
> > makes more sense in my situation.  All of the reading and listening to
> SVO
> > advocates and some that posted hard data to analyze; I believe that
> > viscosity is by and large the silent killer of IP.  Some of the tests
> that
> > I have seen have shown SVO heated to 180 degrees F. which should be
> normal
> > operating temperature for a properly warmed up system; showing viscosity
> > far in excess of cold No.2 diesel.
> >
> > Mike, you don't have to take my word for it.  When you get a chance, read
> > the link on measuring the viscosity of motor oil at ehow;
> > http://www.ehow.com/how_6218753_measure-viscosity-motor-oil.html .
> >
> > Simply run two tests, one for your diesel fuel at ambient temperature and
> > one for your SVO at the normal operating temperature that your system
> runs.
> >  If there is a huge difference then your IP HAS to work harder to pump
> fuel
> > and would wear more than typical. Jim Cathy's comment about dissolved
> salts
> > and Grant's comment about pH balances could certainly over a long term
> have
> > some effects, but IMHO viscosity is the real issue.  If you do test your
> > viscosity, please report back since I would love to see if in your
> > situation it is the same as has been reported in other places.
> >
> > Thanks for your time.
> >
> > Todd Smith
> >
> > Confidentiality Note: The information contained in this message
> > may be privileged and confidential. If this e-mail contains
> > protected health information, you are hereby notified that any
> > dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is
> > strictly prohibited,except as permitted by law. If you have
> > received this communication in error, please notify the sender
> > immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your
> > computer.  Thank you.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> ___
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> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
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Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

[Smith, Todd]

I agree with this wholeheartedly, and I didn't mean to dismiss the other 
factors as much as I posted since I was trying to give Mike something that he 
could easily test for himself to see the difference in the fuel.

Todd Smith

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of G Mann
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:24 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

I agree that SVO viscosity is a critical element in accelerated wear of the IP. 
While our natural tendency is to look for only one damage factor, in this case, 
I believe the additive effect of all elements work to decrease the useful 
service life of the IP.

I am active on another diesel only board that deals with Ford trucks with 
Indirect Injection [pre 1994] and several members there run WVO as well as 
Waste Motor Oil [50/50 blend with diesel]. What is happening with the IP's on 
those applications patterns after what I've seen on others. Early failure. 
Seems the average life is about 2 years instead of the average of
10 seen with Petro Diesel only.

"Run cheap fuel, buy expensive parts" seems to be the mantra.

Grant... AZ

Confidentiality Note: The information contained in this message 
may be privileged and confidential. If this e-mail contains 
protected health information, you are hereby notified that any 
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is 
strictly prohibited,except as permitted by law. If you have 
received this communication in error, please notify the sender 
immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your 
computer.  Thank you.


___
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For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] SVO and IP issues was RE: 1984 300D - won't start when hot.

[G Mann]

I agree that SVO viscosity is a critical element in accelerated wear of the
IP. While our natural tendency is to look for only one damage factor, in
this case, I believe the additive effect of all elements work to decrease
the useful service life of the IP.

I am active on another diesel only board that deals with Ford trucks with
Indirect Injection [pre 1994] and several members there run WVO as well as
Waste Motor Oil [50/50 blend with diesel]. What is happening with the IP's
on those applications patterns after what I've seen on others. Early
failure. Seems the average life is about 2 years instead of the average of
10 seen with Petro Diesel only.

"Run cheap fuel, buy expensive parts" seems to be the mantra.

Grant... AZ


On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 6:34 AM, Smith, Todd  wrote:

> I have been following the Biodiesel and SVO community since 2004 and while
> I certainly see the advantages and disadvantages to each system; Biodiesel
> makes more sense in my situation.  All of the reading and listening to SVO
> advocates and some that posted hard data to analyze; I believe that
> viscosity is by and large the silent killer of IP.  Some of the tests that
> I have seen have shown SVO heated to 180 degrees F. which should be normal
> operating temperature for a properly warmed up system; showing viscosity
> far in excess of cold No.2 diesel.
>
> Mike, you don't have to take my word for it.  When you get a chance, read
> the link on measuring the viscosity of motor oil at ehow;
> http://www.ehow.com/how_6218753_measure-viscosity-motor-oil.html .
>
> Simply run two tests, one for your diesel fuel at ambient temperature and
> one for your SVO at the normal operating temperature that your system runs.
>  If there is a huge difference then your IP HAS to work harder to pump fuel
> and would wear more than typical. Jim Cathy's comment about dissolved salts
> and Grant's comment about pH balances could certainly over a long term have
> some effects, but IMHO viscosity is the real issue.  If you do test your
> viscosity, please report back since I would love to see if in your
> situation it is the same as has been reported in other places.
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
> Todd Smith
>
> Confidentiality Note: The information contained in this message
> may be privileged and confidential. If this e-mail contains
> protected health information, you are hereby notified that any
> dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is
> strictly prohibited,except as permitted by law. If you have
> received this communication in error, please notify the sender
> immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your
> computer.  Thank you.
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
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