Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
OK, so to diagnose that condition, once I've got the MC off, I presume there is an opening to the booster through which I can test for presence of brake fluid? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Craig Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 10:38 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 17:50:15 -0500 Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: Peter, No sign of loss of brake fluid from the reservoir, and the engine oil level is holding steady, so I don't think I'm in that condition yet... But you don't need enough brake fluid in the brake booster to cause it to be sucked into the engine to have enough brake fluid in the booster to ruin it. Craig -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 5:31 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal More to the point, a bad MC will fill the brake booster with brake fluid, which is a bad thing. I'm not sure I want brake fluid in the oil Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Craig -- Present:'94 E420117 kmi '82 240D/3.0264 kmi Past: '86 190E/2.3 '72 220/8 '64 190Dc '72 220D/8 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
NO, in 'internal leak' is simply fluid internally leaking past the seals, back into the reservoir. You will not see visual indications. If you are interested in saving the last dime; disassemble, clean with alcohol, hone with proper hone as required, check piston clearance, reassemble with new seal kit. Or, buy a quality rebuilt. -- -- Pete Arnold, Q.A. Manager Ultracast, LLC Enfield, CT 06083 (860) 253-5015 On 12/11/2010 7:37 AM, Max Dillon wrote: OK, so to diagnose that condition, once I've got the MC off, I presume there is an opening to the booster through which I can test for presence of brake fluid? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Craig Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 10:38 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 17:50:15 -0500 Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: Peter, No sign of loss of brake fluid from the reservoir, and the engine oil level is holding steady, so I don't think I'm in that condition yet... But you don't need enough brake fluid in the brake booster to cause it to be sucked into the engine to have enough brake fluid in the booster to ruin it. Craig -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 5:31 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal More to the point, a bad MC will fill the brake booster with brake fluid, which is a bad thing. I'm not sure I want brake fluid in the oil Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Craig -- Present:'94 E420117 kmi '82 240D/3.0264 kmi Past: '86 190E/2.3 '72 220/8 '64 190Dc '72 220D/8 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
Yup. Fred Moir Lynn MA On 12/11/2010 7:37 AM, Max Dillon wrote: OK, so to diagnose that condition, once I've got the MC off, I presume there is an opening to the booster through which I can test for presence of brake fluid? -Max Peter, No sign of loss of brake fluid from the reservoir, and the engine oil level is holding steady, so I don't think I'm in that condition yet... But you don't need enough brake fluid in the brake booster to cause it to be sucked into the engine to have enough brake fluid in the booster to ruin it. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
Thanks Fred. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Fred Moir Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 12:30 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal Yup. Fred Moir Lynn MA On 12/11/2010 7:37 AM, Max Dillon wrote: OK, so to diagnose that condition, once I've got the MC off, I presume there is an opening to the booster through which I can test for presence of brake fluid? -Max Peter, No sign of loss of brake fluid from the reservoir, and the engine oil level is holding steady, so I don't think I'm in that condition yet... But you don't need enough brake fluid in the brake booster to cause it to be sucked into the engine to have enough brake fluid in the booster to ruin it. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
If there is no fluid leak, the master cylinder is bad. Not a big job to replace, and not anywhere near as expensive and suddenly loosing your brakes all together! Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
Max, et al. M/cyl bypassing its' seals. Rebuild or replace. Worse in the cold, seals not as flexible. Fred Moir Lynn MA On 12/10/2010 3:59 PM, Max Dillon wrote: OK folks, check my work here. After rebuilding the calipers on my '95 E300, the service manual says to apply hard pressure to the brake pedal for a short period of time, and then check for evidence of leaks. When I did this test, no sign of any leakage, but the brake pedal slowly sank while I stood on the pedal. I think the master cylinder is probably bad. This car also has a very soft brake pedal feel compared to my '87 wagon; feels a lot more like the '72 Buick I used to drive in high school. I've bled the system with my pressure bleeder, and now it has new rotors and new Akebono ceramic pads at all four corners. All this work did little to improve the pedal feel (had Pagid pads on it when I got the car). The car stops just fine, but the pedal is too soft in my opinion. This car was driven by the PO with a failed vacuum pump, so maybe something was damaged by too much driving with no vacuum assist? Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD 332k miles '95 E300 277k miles '73 Balboa 20 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
Sounds like an internal leak on M/C. O'haul or change it. Alternative, get a big surprise when going down a hill... -- Pete Arnold You win some, You loose some and You wreck some! -Dale Earnhardt- On 12/10/2010 3:59 PM, Max Dillon wrote: OK folks, check my work here. After rebuilding the calipers on my '95 E300, the service manual says to apply hard pressure to the brake pedal for a short period of time, and then check for evidence of leaks. When I did this test, no sign of any leakage, but the brake pedal slowly sank while I stood on the pedal. I think the master cylinder is probably bad. This car also has a very soft brake pedal feel compared to my '87 wagon; feels a lot more like the '72 Buick I used to drive in high school. I've bled the system with my pressure bleeder, and now it has new rotors and new Akebono ceramic pads at all four corners. All this work did little to improve the pedal feel (had Pagid pads on it when I got the car). The car stops just fine, but the pedal is too soft in my opinion. This car was driven by the PO with a failed vacuum pump, so maybe something was damaged by too much driving with no vacuum assist? Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD 332k miles '95 E300 277k miles '73 Balboa 20 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
A failed vacuum pump can damage the power assist unit. This can be easily tested with the Mity-Vac. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Max Dillon Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 1:00 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal OK folks, check my work here. After rebuilding the calipers on my '95 E300, the service manual says to apply hard pressure to the brake pedal for a short period of time, and then check for evidence of leaks. When I did this test, no sign of any leakage, but the brake pedal slowly sank while I stood on the pedal. I think the master cylinder is probably bad. This car also has a very soft brake pedal feel compared to my '87 wagon; feels a lot more like the '72 Buick I used to drive in high school. I've bled the system with my pressure bleeder, and now it has new rotors and new Akebono ceramic pads at all four corners. All this work did little to improve the pedal feel (had Pagid pads on it when I got the car). The car stops just fine, but the pedal is too soft in my opinion. This car was driven by the PO with a failed vacuum pump, so maybe something was damaged by too much driving with no vacuum assist? Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD 332k miles '95 E300 277k miles '73 Balboa 20 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
More to the point, a bad MC will fill the brake booster with brake fluid, which is a bad thing. I'm not sure I want brake fluid in the oil Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
Yep, loosing you're break peddle is no good. --R On 12/10/2010 4:15 PM, Peter Frederick wrote: If there is no fluid leak, the master cylinder is bad. Not a big job to replace, and not anywhere near as expensive and suddenly loosing your brakes all together! Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
Loosing, losing or loosening? On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 5:39 PM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: Yep, loosing you're break peddle is no good. --R On 12/10/2010 4:15 PM, Peter Frederick wrote: If there is no fluid leak, the master cylinder is bad. Not a big job to replace, and not anywhere near as expensive and suddenly loosing your brakes all together! Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
Peter - yes, a MC is definitely cheaper than no brakes! In John Muir's Idiots guide to keeping your Volkswagen ALIVE! he offered that the ability to stop is more important than the ability to go, a philosophy I subscribe to. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 4:15 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal If there is no fluid leak, the master cylinder is bad. Not a big job to replace, and not anywhere near as expensive and suddenly loosing your brakes all together! Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
Fred, That's my thought. Rusty's quote shows rebuild kit is not too much cheaper than a new MC, so I'll probably go that route. (sigh). The power steering pump is also leaking... -Max (with a very expensive cheap Mercedes) -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Fred Moir Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 4:22 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal Max, et al. M/cyl bypassing its' seals. Rebuild or replace. Worse in the cold, seals not as flexible. Fred Moir Lynn MA On 12/10/2010 3:59 PM, Max Dillon wrote: OK folks, check my work here. After rebuilding the calipers on my '95 E300, the service manual says to apply hard pressure to the brake pedal for a short period of time, and then check for evidence of leaks. When I did this test, no sign of any leakage, but the brake pedal slowly sank while I stood on the pedal. I think the master cylinder is probably bad. This car also has a very soft brake pedal feel compared to my '87 wagon; feels a lot more like the '72 Buick I used to drive in high school. I've bled the system with my pressure bleeder, and now it has new rotors and new Akebono ceramic pads at all four corners. All this work did little to improve the pedal feel (had Pagid pads on it when I got the car). The car stops just fine, but the pedal is too soft in my opinion. This car was driven by the PO with a failed vacuum pump, so maybe something was damaged by too much driving with no vacuum assist? Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD 332k miles '95 E300 277k miles '73 Balboa 20 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
Pete, Yes, here's to not falling into Dale E's wreck some category... -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter T. Arnold Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 5:06 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal Sounds like an internal leak on M/C. O'haul or change it. Alternative, get a big surprise when going down a hill... -- Pete Arnold You win some, You loose some and You wreck some! -Dale Earnhardt- On 12/10/2010 3:59 PM, Max Dillon wrote: OK folks, check my work here. After rebuilding the calipers on my '95 E300, the service manual says to apply hard pressure to the brake pedal for a short period of time, and then check for evidence of leaks. When I did this test, no sign of any leakage, but the brake pedal slowly sank while I stood on the pedal. I think the master cylinder is probably bad. This car also has a very soft brake pedal feel compared to my '87 wagon; feels a lot more like the '72 Buick I used to drive in high school. I've bled the system with my pressure bleeder, and now it has new rotors and new Akebono ceramic pads at all four corners. All this work did little to improve the pedal feel (had Pagid pads on it when I got the car). The car stops just fine, but the pedal is too soft in my opinion. This car was driven by the PO with a failed vacuum pump, so maybe something was damaged by too much driving with no vacuum assist? Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD 332k miles '95 E300 277k miles '73 Balboa 20 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
Greg, tell me more about this test for the power assist unit. Have Mity-vac! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Greg Fiorentino Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 5:06 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal A failed vacuum pump can damage the power assist unit. This can be easily tested with the Mity-Vac. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Max Dillon Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 1:00 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal OK folks, check my work here. After rebuilding the calipers on my '95 E300, the service manual says to apply hard pressure to the brake pedal for a short period of time, and then check for evidence of leaks. When I did this test, no sign of any leakage, but the brake pedal slowly sank while I stood on the pedal. I think the master cylinder is probably bad. This car also has a very soft brake pedal feel compared to my '87 wagon; feels a lot more like the '72 Buick I used to drive in high school. I've bled the system with my pressure bleeder, and now it has new rotors and new Akebono ceramic pads at all four corners. All this work did little to improve the pedal feel (had Pagid pads on it when I got the car). The car stops just fine, but the pedal is too soft in my opinion. This car was driven by the PO with a failed vacuum pump, so maybe something was damaged by too much driving with no vacuum assist? Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD 332k miles '95 E300 277k miles '73 Balboa 20 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
Peter, No sign of loss of brake fluid from the reservoir, and the engine oil level is holding steady, so I don't think I'm in that condition yet... -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 5:31 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal More to the point, a bad MC will fill the brake booster with brake fluid, which is a bad thing. I'm not sure I want brake fluid in the oil Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
so I can't spell, eh? Can't type worth doodly anymore, either, since I can't see anything less than an inch tall on the screen. Peter. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
You can just put the Mityvac on the suction side of the booster, suck it down and see if it holds vac. If it doesn't then the diaphragm is bad. I replaced to MC on the TD, getting those line fittings back on the part was a nasty unpleasant job. They are pretty tight anyway with the lines being the way they are, and getting them lined up just right to get the fittings started can either take 10sec or 30min. While brake fluid is all over. Guess which they took... --R On 12/10/2010 5:48 PM, Max Dillon wrote: Greg, tell me more about this test for the power assist unit. Have Mity-vac! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Greg Fiorentino Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 5:06 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal A failed vacuum pump can damage the power assist unit. This can be easily tested with the Mity-Vac. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Max Dillon Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 1:00 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal OK folks, check my work here. After rebuilding the calipers on my '95 E300, the service manual says to apply hard pressure to the brake pedal for a short period of time, and then check for evidence of leaks. When I did this test, no sign of any leakage, but the brake pedal slowly sank while I stood on the pedal. I think the master cylinder is probably bad. This car also has a very soft brake pedal feel compared to my '87 wagon; feels a lot more like the '72 Buick I used to drive in high school. I've bled the system with my pressure bleeder, and now it has new rotors and new Akebono ceramic pads at all four corners. All this work did little to improve the pedal feel (had Pagid pads on it when I got the car). The car stops just fine, but the pedal is too soft in my opinion. This car was driven by the PO with a failed vacuum pump, so maybe something was damaged by too much driving with no vacuum assist? Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD 332k miles '95 E300 277k miles '73 Balboa 20 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
Put the lines on before putting the master cylinder all the way down on the bolts. Much easier. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
I just like busting on loosers. --R On 12/10/2010 5:50 PM, Peter Frederick wrote: so I can't spell, eh? Can't type worth doodly anymore, either, since I can't see anything less than an inch tall on the screen. Peter. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
Rich, OK, I can probably do that. Wouldn't it be similar to test the brake pedal before starting the engine to see if the power assist still works after the car has sat overnight? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 5:53 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal You can just put the Mityvac on the suction side of the booster, suck it down and see if it holds vac. If it doesn't then the diaphragm is bad. I replaced to MC on the TD, getting those line fittings back on the part was a nasty unpleasant job. They are pretty tight anyway with the lines being the way they are, and getting them lined up just right to get the fittings started can either take 10sec or 30min. While brake fluid is all over. Guess which they took... --R On 12/10/2010 5:48 PM, Max Dillon wrote: Greg, tell me more about this test for the power assist unit. Have Mity-vac! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Greg Fiorentino Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 5:06 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal A failed vacuum pump can damage the power assist unit. This can be easily tested with the Mity-Vac. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Max Dillon Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 1:00 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal OK folks, check my work here. After rebuilding the calipers on my '95 E300, the service manual says to apply hard pressure to the brake pedal for a short period of time, and then check for evidence of leaks. When I did this test, no sign of any leakage, but the brake pedal slowly sank while I stood on the pedal. I think the master cylinder is probably bad. This car also has a very soft brake pedal feel compared to my '87 wagon; feels a lot more like the '72 Buick I used to drive in high school. I've bled the system with my pressure bleeder, and now it has new rotors and new Akebono ceramic pads at all four corners. All this work did little to improve the pedal feel (had Pagid pads on it when I got the car). The car stops just fine, but the pedal is too soft in my opinion. This car was driven by the PO with a failed vacuum pump, so maybe something was damaged by too much driving with no vacuum assist? Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD 332k miles '95 E300 277k miles '73 Balboa 20 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
Rich Thomas wrote: and getting them lined up just right to get the fittings started can either take 10sec or 30min. While brake fluid is all over. Don't tighten the mount bolts until all the lines are started. Don't tighten any of the lines until _all_ the lines are started. That doesn't guarantee it will be 10 sec - just improve the chances. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
It's been a while since I've done this, but IIRC you unscrew the vacuum fitting from the front of the PAU, place a suitable adapter over the opening and pull a vacuum with the tester. The unit should hold a vacuum without any leak-down. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Max Dillon Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 2:49 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal Greg, tell me more about this test for the power assist unit. Have Mity-vac! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Greg Fiorentino Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 5:06 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal A failed vacuum pump can damage the power assist unit. This can be easily tested with the Mity-Vac. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Max Dillon Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 1:00 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal OK folks, check my work here. After rebuilding the calipers on my '95 E300, the service manual says to apply hard pressure to the brake pedal for a short period of time, and then check for evidence of leaks. When I did this test, no sign of any leakage, but the brake pedal slowly sank while I stood on the pedal. I think the master cylinder is probably bad. This car also has a very soft brake pedal feel compared to my '87 wagon; feels a lot more like the '72 Buick I used to drive in high school. I've bled the system with my pressure bleeder, and now it has new rotors and new Akebono ceramic pads at all four corners. All this work did little to improve the pedal feel (had Pagid pads on it when I got the car). The car stops just fine, but the pedal is too soft in my opinion. This car was driven by the PO with a failed vacuum pump, so maybe something was damaged by too much driving with no vacuum assist? Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD 332k miles '95 E300 277k miles '73 Balboa 20 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
This is the kind of stuff for which Peter Frederick earns my vote for Der Dieseling Doktor Memorial Award.Thank you again, Peter. A simple, but fricking brilliant solution to a PITA that I have experienced myself with master cylinder lines. I know exactly the problem that Rich Thomas was referring to and I am really paranoid about cross-threading those little buggers. :) Why didn't I think of this??? That's why they pay you the big bucks, Peter! :) Tom Schuch SE Connecticut 1975 W115 300D and a bunch of BMWs Message: 6 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 17:09:18 -0600 From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal Message-ID: 449ff575-e582-4e82-ba3a-6bffd2ec2...@earthlink.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Put the lines on before putting the master cylinder all the way down on the bolts. Much easier. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
If anyone has to replace the brake booster, I have a good trick to get the nut on under the dash on a W123. Tip provided on request. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 2:53 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal You can just put the Mityvac on the suction side of the booster, suck it down and see if it holds vac. If it doesn't then the diaphragm is bad. I replaced to MC on the TD, getting those line fittings back on the part was a nasty unpleasant job. They are pretty tight anyway with the lines being the way they are, and getting them lined up just right to get the fittings started can either take 10sec or 30min. While brake fluid is all over. Guess which they took... --R On 12/10/2010 5:48 PM, Max Dillon wrote: Greg, tell me more about this test for the power assist unit. Have Mity-vac! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Greg Fiorentino Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 5:06 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal A failed vacuum pump can damage the power assist unit. This can be easily tested with the Mity-Vac. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Max Dillon Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 1:00 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal OK folks, check my work here. After rebuilding the calipers on my '95 E300, the service manual says to apply hard pressure to the brake pedal for a short period of time, and then check for evidence of leaks. When I did this test, no sign of any leakage, but the brake pedal slowly sank while I stood on the pedal. I think the master cylinder is probably bad. This car also has a very soft brake pedal feel compared to my '87 wagon; feels a lot more like the '72 Buick I used to drive in high school. I've bled the system with my pressure bleeder, and now it has new rotors and new Akebono ceramic pads at all four corners. All this work did little to improve the pedal feel (had Pagid pads on it when I got the car). The car stops just fine, but the pedal is too soft in my opinion. This car was driven by the PO with a failed vacuum pump, so maybe something was damaged by too much driving with no vacuum assist? Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD 332k miles '95 E300 277k miles '73 Balboa 20 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
As WMATA (Washington metro area transit admin) figured out a couple of summers back -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Dec 10, 2010, at 17:43, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: Peter - yes, a MC is definitely cheaper than no brakes! In John Muir's Idiots guide to keeping your Volkswagen ALIVE! he offered that the ability to stop is more important than the ability to go, a philosophy I subscribe to. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 4:15 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal If there is no fluid leak, the master cylinder is bad. Not a big job to replace, and not anywhere near as expensive and suddenly loosing your brakes all together! Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 17:50:15 -0500 Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: Peter, No sign of loss of brake fluid from the reservoir, and the engine oil level is holding steady, so I don't think I'm in that condition yet... But you don't need enough brake fluid in the brake booster to cause it to be sucked into the engine to have enough brake fluid in the booster to ruin it. Craig -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 5:31 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal More to the point, a bad MC will fill the brake booster with brake fluid, which is a bad thing. I'm not sure I want brake fluid in the oil Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Craig -- Present:'94 E420117 kmi '82 240D/3.0264 kmi Past: '86 190E/2.3 '72 220/8 '64 190Dc '72 220D/8 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal
Probably, unless there are other vac leaks. --R On 12/10/2010 6:38 PM, Max Dillon wrote: Rich, OK, I can probably do that. Wouldn't it be similar to test the brake pedal before starting the engine to see if the power assist still works after the car has sat overnight? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 5:53 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal You can just put the Mityvac on the suction side of the booster, suck it down and see if it holds vac. If it doesn't then the diaphragm is bad. I replaced to MC on the TD, getting those line fittings back on the part was a nasty unpleasant job. They are pretty tight anyway with the lines being the way they are, and getting them lined up just right to get the fittings started can either take 10sec or 30min. While brake fluid is all over. Guess which they took... --R On 12/10/2010 5:48 PM, Max Dillon wrote: Greg, tell me more about this test for the power assist unit. Have Mity-vac! -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Greg Fiorentino Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 5:06 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal A failed vacuum pump can damage the power assist unit. This can be easily tested with the Mity-Vac. Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Max Dillon Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 1:00 PM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: [MBZ] Symptom - sinking brake pedal OK folks, check my work here. After rebuilding the calipers on my '95 E300, the service manual says to apply hard pressure to the brake pedal for a short period of time, and then check for evidence of leaks. When I did this test, no sign of any leakage, but the brake pedal slowly sank while I stood on the pedal. I think the master cylinder is probably bad. This car also has a very soft brake pedal feel compared to my '87 wagon; feels a lot more like the '72 Buick I used to drive in high school. I've bled the system with my pressure bleeder, and now it has new rotors and new Akebono ceramic pads at all four corners. All this work did little to improve the pedal feel (had Pagid pads on it when I got the car). The car stops just fine, but the pedal is too soft in my opinion. This car was driven by the PO with a failed vacuum pump, so maybe something was damaged by too much driving with no vacuum assist? Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD 332k miles '95 E300 277k miles '73 Balboa 20 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
