Re: [MBZ] beware of A380s

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

you can also see those vortices when it's humid at F1 races as air is 
forced across the rear wings when the cars are on long straights or 
gentle curves.


LarryT


On 03/18/2017 11:26 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote:
Back in the late 90s i took a BA flt BOS-LHR on a 747, first class on 
the upper deck.  Pilots left the door open the whole flight, taxi, 
takeoff, etc. and invited us in to come visit "once it is safe to move 
around the cabin."  Young pilots too, I was rossekinda surprised.  I 
sat with them for quite some time over the North Atlantic looking at 
stars out the windows.  It was fun.


On the wake turbulence aspect, that is related to lift and how an 
airplane wing actually works -- it causes a circulation of air around 
the wing when it is developing lift, and that circulating air rolls 
off the tip of the wing (you can see the tip vortices when it is 
humid) and then turns straight back and expands as it goes further 
back.  You can see that effect too when a big plane lands as it kicks 
up dust and stuff along the runway, then will abruptly stop when lift 
stops.  But that rotating air persists for quite some time for quite 
some distance and can really mess up anything that gets in it.  I 
recall seeing a vid of a Lear Jet tucking up behind a bigger jet (747 
maybe) and then all the sudden FULL ROLL!!!  It was at altitude and 
the pilot was prepared for it, so it was a planned maneuver but it was 
scary crazy to see that.


--FT


On 3/18/17 9:29 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
I remember when I was a kid they used to let you go up to the 
cockpit. Seems strange now.




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Re: [MBZ] beware of A380s

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

We used to sail Albacores out of the marina at the south end of the runway
at National, and in the summer there is often no wind in the morning. So
the game was to catch the tip vortices from landing aircraft. They would
either knock a boat flat or send it planing across the water for a good
distance, depending upon how the vortex landed on it. They would also set
up little water spouts where they touched down on the surface. Lots of
energy, like there was any doubt!

On Mar 18, 2017 8:27 AM, "Floyd Thursby via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> Back in the late 90s i took a BA flt BOS-LHR on a 747, first class on the
> upper deck.  Pilots left the door open the whole flight, taxi, takeoff,
> etc. and invited us in to come visit "once it is safe to move around the
> cabin."  Young pilots too, I was kinda surprised.  I sat with them for
> quite some time over the North Atlantic looking at stars out the windows.
> It was fun.
>
> On the wake turbulence aspect, that is related to lift and how an airplane
> wing actually works -- it causes a circulation of air around the wing when
> it is developing lift, and that circulating air rolls off the tip of the
> wing (you can see the tip vortices when it is humid) and then turns
> straight back and expands as it goes further back.  You can see that effect
> too when a big plane lands as it kicks up dust and stuff along the runway,
> then will abruptly stop when lift stops.  But that rotating air persists
> for quite some time for quite some distance and can really mess up anything
> that gets in it.  I recall seeing a vid of a Lear Jet tucking up behind a
> bigger jet (747 maybe) and then all the sudden FULL ROLL!!!  It was at
> altitude and the pilot was prepared for it, so it was a planned maneuver
> but it was scary crazy to see that.
>
> --FT
>
>
> On 3/18/17 9:29 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> I remember when I was a kid they used to let you go up to the cockpit.
>> Seems strange now.
>>
>
> --
> --FT
> Winston Churchill:
> “Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small,
> large or petty,
> never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
> Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of
> the enemy.”
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] beware of A380s

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

Back in the late 90s i took a BA flt BOS-LHR on a 747, first class on 
the upper deck.  Pilots left the door open the whole flight, taxi, 
takeoff, etc. and invited us in to come visit "once it is safe to move 
around the cabin."  Young pilots too, I was kinda surprised.  I sat with 
them for quite some time over the North Atlantic looking at stars out 
the windows.  It was fun.


On the wake turbulence aspect, that is related to lift and how an 
airplane wing actually works -- it causes a circulation of air around 
the wing when it is developing lift, and that circulating air rolls off 
the tip of the wing (you can see the tip vortices when it is humid) and 
then turns straight back and expands as it goes further back.  You can 
see that effect too when a big plane lands as it kicks up dust and stuff 
along the runway, then will abruptly stop when lift stops.  But that 
rotating air persists for quite some time for quite some distance and 
can really mess up anything that gets in it.  I recall seeing a vid of a 
Lear Jet tucking up behind a bigger jet (747 maybe) and then all the 
sudden FULL ROLL!!!  It was at altitude and the pilot was prepared for 
it, so it was a planned maneuver but it was scary crazy to see that.


--FT


On 3/18/17 9:29 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

I remember when I was a kid they used to let you go up to the cockpit. Seems 
strange now.


--
--FT
Winston Churchill:
“Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or 
petty,
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the 
enemy.”


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Re: [MBZ] beware of A380s

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

There is a similar story about the DC-6.  Leaving the gust lock lever in the 
locked position duringwould lock the horizontal stabilizer in a slight "up" 
attitude, which could easily be compensated for by dialing in some trim.  At 
least once the lock was accidentally engaged in flight, and like all propellor 
driven airliners of the time, speed increased as fuel was burned off and as the 
speed went up, so did the tendency to climb.  With the initial design, it was 
possible to more the lever freely in flight.

When the co-pilot discovered the lock was engaged and pulled the lever to the 
unlocked position, the "down" trim shoved the nose down hard, causing an 
unexpected power on dive, from which the pilot managed to to recover by rolling 
out of a fully inverted attitude -- not something one would normally do with a 
plane load of passengers.

The gust lock was changed so that it could not be inadvertently activated and 
the problem never occurred again, except for the instance where a pilot 
"demonstrated" it in flight -- he resigned when he got to the ground before he 
got fired.

A DC-3 crashed here in Evansville in the 70's killing a local team, including a 
friend of mine for similar reasons -- on the DC-3 the gust lock is a wedge 
inserted by ground crew, not an internal mechanism, and the ground crew failed 
to notify the flight crew it had been inserted.  The air crew failed to do 
"range of motion" control testing before taking off.  The plane took off on 
ground effect, and promptly flew into the hill at the end of the runway because 
the elevator were locked. 

Peter
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Re: [MBZ] beware of A380s

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I remember when I was a kid they used to let you go up to the cockpit. Seems 
strange now.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 18, 2017, at 6:53 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfgO90yGusI
> 
> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 6:46 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Speaking of A380s, there was a show on Smithonian channel called "Air
>> Disasters" which features various airliner/aircraft incidents. Yesterday
>> they featured a A380 with a crew of 3 that was on auto pilot when the pilot
>> brought his (9 ur old?) daughter and 15 yr old son into the cockpit and he
>> first let the daughter sit in the pilots seat and she let her hands rest on
>> the control yoke.  Then his 15 year old son had his turn.  He did the same
>> with his hands, but being stronger, he was able to put more pressure on the
>> yoke.  That's when disaster struck as a feature of the new A380 (and many
>> other planes) kicked in -- when pressure is put on the yoke for approx 30
>> sec part of the Auto pilot becomes disabled.  At that point the 15 y.o.
>> teen was controlling the rudder while the autopilot continued to (try to)
>> control the rest.  Evidently this is a feature some commercial pilots
>> like.  At that point the auto pilot tried to keep the plane on course by
>> adjusting the other controls.  It appears the crew was not trained in this
>> feature.  Eventually the plane began to roll while the son was still in the
>> pilot seat.   But maybe forces kept him seated.  So the situation continued
>> to deteriorate as the plane began to dive then roll and slow spin as the
>> crew tried to regain control - the pilot was seated once again.  Eventually
>> they appeared to pull the nose up and stop the spinning, but as the plane
>> climbed they over-corrected and it was almost vertical when it stalled.  It
>> appeared the auto pilot was still in partial control during all of this
>> which happened in approx 40 sec.  All these maneuvers used a lot of
>> altitude and they ran into a mountain.  The airline was the Russian
>> Aeroflot and they said that while what the pilot did was technically
>> illegal many did it. Hmmm.  I pray American commercial planes have a little
>> better cockpit security.
>> 
>> It's amazing to see the amount of info they get from the cockpit recorders.
>> 
>> LarryT
>> 
>> 91 300D
>> 
>> 
>>> On 03/17/2017 4:59 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>>> 
>>> They probably should have been further apart even if it wasn't a 380
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Mar 17, 2017, at 2:44 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
 Yes, but the smaller plane was no Piper Cub. It was a twin engine jet.
 The air traffic controllers need to keep these things separated by more
 air.
 There was only a thousand vertical  feet between them when the A380
 passed overhead.
 
 RB
 
> On 17/03/2017 2:40 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> With a plane that big it takes a lot of thrust to keep it going which
> really stirs up the air behind it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Mar 17, 2017, at 1:59 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> http://avherald.com/h?article=4a5e80f3
>> 
>> RB
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> 
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 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] beware of A380s

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I seem to remember seeing something about that on a show a while back. Not sure 
how long ago that happened. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 18, 2017, at 6:46 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Speaking of A380s, there was a show on Smithonian channel called "Air 
> Disasters" which features various airliner/aircraft incidents. Yesterday they 
> featured a A380 with a crew of 3 that was on auto pilot when the pilot 
> brought his (9 ur old?) daughter and 15 yr old son into the cockpit and he 
> first let the daughter sit in the pilots seat and she let her hands rest on 
> the control yoke.  Then his 15 year old son had his turn.  He did the same 
> with his hands, but being stronger, he was able to put more pressure on the 
> yoke.  That's when disaster struck as a feature of the new A380 (and many 
> other planes) kicked in -- when pressure is put on the yoke for approx 30 sec 
> part of the Auto pilot becomes disabled.  At that point the 15 y.o. teen was 
> controlling the rudder while the autopilot continued to (try to) control the 
> rest.  Evidently this is a feature some commercial pilots like.  At that 
> point the auto pilot tried to keep the plane on course by adjusting the other 
> controls.  It appe
 ars the crew was not trained in this feature.  Eventually the plane began to 
roll while the son was still in the pilot seat.   But maybe forces kept him 
seated.  So the situation continued to deteriorate as the plane began to dive 
then roll and slow spin as the crew tried to regain control - the pilot was 
seated once again.  Eventually they appeared to pull the nose up and stop the 
spinning, but as the plane climbed they over-corrected and it was almost 
vertical when it stalled.  It appeared the auto pilot was still in partial 
control during all of this which happened in approx 40 sec.  All these 
maneuvers used a lot of altitude and they ran into a mountain.  The airline was 
the Russian Aeroflot and they said that while what the pilot did was 
technically illegal many did it. Hmmm.  I pray American commercial planes have 
a little better cockpit security.
> 
> It's amazing to see the amount of info they get from the cockpit recorders.
> 
> LarryT
> 
> 91 300D
> 
> 
>> On 03/17/2017 4:59 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> They probably should have been further apart even if it wasn't a 380
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Mar 17, 2017, at 2:44 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes, but the smaller plane was no Piper Cub. It was a twin engine jet.
>>> The air traffic controllers need to keep these things separated by more air.
>>> There was only a thousand vertical  feet between them when the A380 passed 
>>> overhead.
>>> 
>>> RB
>>> 
 On 17/03/2017 2:40 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
 With a plane that big it takes a lot of thrust to keep it going which 
 really stirs up the air behind it.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Mar 17, 2017, at 1:59 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> http://avherald.com/h?article=4a5e80f3
> 
> RB
> 
> 
> ___
> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] beware of A380s

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Back in the 80s, the USAF had a program for spouses to ride along on
designated "safe" training missions.  This program suddenly ended when one
such C135 crashed, killing all aboard.  The investigation concluded that a
spouse in the left seat had clicked in a bunch of nose-down trim (thinking
she was pressing "push to talk" which was a similar rocker switch on the
yoke for intercom and radio).  When the autopilot tripped off the sudden
dive pinned anyone not securely strapped in against the ceiling, which,
unfortunately, included the pilot and copilot.  By the time any of the real
crew could reach the controls, the aircraft was already in an unrecoverable
Mach-tuck dive.  Aviation and guns should never be taken lightly.

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Larry
> Turner via Mercedes
>
> 
> Speaking of A380s, there was a show on Smithonian channel called "Air
> Disasters" which features various airliner/aircraft incidents. Yesterday
> they featured a A380 with a crew of 3 that was on auto pilot when the
pilot
> brought his (9 ur old?) daughter and 15 yr old son into the cockpit and he
> first let the daughter sit in the pilots seat and she let her hands rest
on
> the control yoke.  Then his 15 year old son had his turn.  He did the same
> with his hands, but being stronger, he was able to put more pressure on
the
> yoke.  That's when disaster struck as a feature of the new A380 (and many
> other planes) kicked in -- when pressure is put on the yoke for approx 30
> sec part of the Auto pilot becomes disabled.  At that point the 15 y.o.
> teen was controlling the rudder while the autopilot continued to (try to)
> control the rest.
> Evidently this is a feature some commercial pilots like.  At that point
the
> auto pilot tried to keep the plane on course by adjusting the other
> controls.  It appears the crew was not trained in this feature.
> Eventually the plane began to roll while the son was still in the pilot
> seat.   But maybe forces kept him seated.  So the situation continued to
> deteriorate as the plane began to dive then roll and slow spin as the crew
> tried to regain control - the pilot was seated once again.
> Eventually they appeared to pull the nose up and stop the spinning, but as
> the plane climbed they over-corrected and it was almost vertical when it
> stalled.  It appeared the auto pilot was still in partial control during
> all of this which happened in approx 40 sec.  All these maneuvers used a
> lot of altitude and they ran into a mountain.  The airline was the Russian
> Aeroflot and they said that while what the pilot did was technically
> illegal many did it. Hmmm.  I pray American commercial planes have a
little
> better cockpit security.
> 
> It's amazing to see the amount of info they get from the cockpit
recorders.
> 
> LarryT
> 
> 91 300D
> 


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Re: [MBZ] beware of A380s

[M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfgO90yGusI

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 6:46 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Speaking of A380s, there was a show on Smithonian channel called "Air
> Disasters" which features various airliner/aircraft incidents. Yesterday
> they featured a A380 with a crew of 3 that was on auto pilot when the pilot
> brought his (9 ur old?) daughter and 15 yr old son into the cockpit and he
> first let the daughter sit in the pilots seat and she let her hands rest on
> the control yoke.  Then his 15 year old son had his turn.  He did the same
> with his hands, but being stronger, he was able to put more pressure on the
> yoke.  That's when disaster struck as a feature of the new A380 (and many
> other planes) kicked in -- when pressure is put on the yoke for approx 30
> sec part of the Auto pilot becomes disabled.  At that point the 15 y.o.
> teen was controlling the rudder while the autopilot continued to (try to)
> control the rest.  Evidently this is a feature some commercial pilots
> like.  At that point the auto pilot tried to keep the plane on course by
> adjusting the other controls.  It appears the crew was not trained in this
> feature.  Eventually the plane began to roll while the son was still in the
> pilot seat.   But maybe forces kept him seated.  So the situation continued
> to deteriorate as the plane began to dive then roll and slow spin as the
> crew tried to regain control - the pilot was seated once again.  Eventually
> they appeared to pull the nose up and stop the spinning, but as the plane
> climbed they over-corrected and it was almost vertical when it stalled.  It
> appeared the auto pilot was still in partial control during all of this
> which happened in approx 40 sec.  All these maneuvers used a lot of
> altitude and they ran into a mountain.  The airline was the Russian
> Aeroflot and they said that while what the pilot did was technically
> illegal many did it. Hmmm.  I pray American commercial planes have a little
> better cockpit security.
>
> It's amazing to see the amount of info they get from the cockpit recorders.
>
> LarryT
>
> 91 300D
>
>
> On 03/17/2017 4:59 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> They probably should have been further apart even if it wasn't a 380
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 17, 2017, at 2:44 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, but the smaller plane was no Piper Cub. It was a twin engine jet.
>>> The air traffic controllers need to keep these things separated by more
>>> air.
>>> There was only a thousand vertical  feet between them when the A380
>>> passed overhead.
>>>
>>> RB
>>>
>>> On 17/03/2017 2:40 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
 With a plane that big it takes a lot of thrust to keep it going which
 really stirs up the air behind it.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 17, 2017, at 1:59 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> http://avherald.com/h?article=4a5e80f3
>
> RB
>
>
> ___
>
>
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>>
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>>
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>
>>>
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Re: [MBZ] beware of A380s

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

Speaking of A380s, there was a show on Smithonian channel called "Air 
Disasters" which features various airliner/aircraft incidents. Yesterday 
they featured a A380 with a crew of 3 that was on auto pilot when the 
pilot brought his (9 ur old?) daughter and 15 yr old son into the 
cockpit and he first let the daughter sit in the pilots seat and she let 
her hands rest on the control yoke.  Then his 15 year old son had his 
turn.  He did the same with his hands, but being stronger, he was able 
to put more pressure on the yoke.  That's when disaster struck as a 
feature of the new A380 (and many other planes) kicked in -- when 
pressure is put on the yoke for approx 30 sec part of the Auto pilot 
becomes disabled.  At that point the 15 y.o. teen was controlling the 
rudder while the autopilot continued to (try to) control the rest.  
Evidently this is a feature some commercial pilots like.  At that point 
the auto pilot tried to keep the plane on course by adjusting the other 
controls.  It appears the crew was not trained in this feature.  
Eventually the plane began to roll while the son was still in the pilot 
seat.   But maybe forces kept him seated.  So the situation continued to 
deteriorate as the plane began to dive then roll and slow spin as the 
crew tried to regain control - the pilot was seated once again.  
Eventually they appeared to pull the nose up and stop the spinning, but 
as the plane climbed they over-corrected and it was almost vertical when 
it stalled.  It appeared the auto pilot was still in partial control 
during all of this which happened in approx 40 sec.  All these maneuvers 
used a lot of altitude and they ran into a mountain.  The airline was 
the Russian Aeroflot and they said that while what the pilot did was 
technically illegal many did it. Hmmm.  I pray American commercial 
planes have a little better cockpit security.


It's amazing to see the amount of info they get from the cockpit recorders.

LarryT

91 300D


On 03/17/2017 4:59 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

They probably should have been further apart even if it wasn't a 380

Sent from my iPhone


On Mar 17, 2017, at 2:44 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes  
wrote:

Yes, but the smaller plane was no Piper Cub. It was a twin engine jet.
The air traffic controllers need to keep these things separated by more air.
There was only a thousand vertical  feet between them when the A380 passed 
overhead.

RB


On 17/03/2017 2:40 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
With a plane that big it takes a lot of thrust to keep it going which really 
stirs up the air behind it.

Sent from my iPhone


On Mar 17, 2017, at 1:59 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes  
wrote:

http://avherald.com/h?article=4a5e80f3

RB


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Re: [MBZ] beware of A380s

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Nope, not thrust, but weight makes the wake turbulence. Any heavy aircraft,
even gliding with minimal thrust makes massive rolls of air. Always touch
down on landing beyond the touch down point of a "heavy", and always
lift-off before the point the "heavy" lift's off when following one on
take-off. Stay above the wake turbulence, not below it.

On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> With a plane that big it takes a lot of thrust to keep it going which
> really stirs up the air behind it.
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] beware of A380s

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

They probably should have been further apart even if it wasn't a 380

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 17, 2017, at 2:44 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yes, but the smaller plane was no Piper Cub. It was a twin engine jet.
> The air traffic controllers need to keep these things separated by more air.
> There was only a thousand vertical  feet between them when the A380 passed 
> overhead.
> 
> RB
> 
>> On 17/03/2017 2:40 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> With a plane that big it takes a lot of thrust to keep it going which really 
>> stirs up the air behind it.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Mar 17, 2017, at 1:59 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> http://avherald.com/h?article=4a5e80f3
>>> 
>>> RB
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> 
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] beware of A380s

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Yes, but the smaller plane was no Piper Cub. It was a twin engine jet.
The air traffic controllers need to keep these things separated by more air.
There was only a thousand vertical  feet between them when the A380 
passed overhead.


RB

On 17/03/2017 2:40 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

With a plane that big it takes a lot of thrust to keep it going which really 
stirs up the air behind it.

Sent from my iPhone


On Mar 17, 2017, at 1:59 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes  
wrote:

http://avherald.com/h?article=4a5e80f3

RB


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Re: [MBZ] beware of A380s

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

With a plane that big it takes a lot of thrust to keep it going which really 
stirs up the air behind it. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 17, 2017, at 1:59 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> http://avherald.com/h?article=4a5e80f3
> 
> RB
> 
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 


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