Re: [MBZ] turbo update 82 300td

2014-09-25 Thread Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes
The he221w is the same size as the T3 on both sides roughly, but has a
higher flow potential due to 20y more advanced design. Spool is similar for
the 6cm housing version on a stock pump. I might go for the 7 and non stock
pump. The other option is an hy30, which is bigger in diameter but has a t3
flange to match the manifold, rather than a t25 like the he221w. Decisions
decisions. Variable geometry would be super, but its very hard to source
the he200vg.
On Sep 25, 2014 1:50 PM, "Curt Raymond"  wrote:

> Why bother replacing the turbo? A bigger turbo isn't (by itself anyway)
> going to make more power and is going to take longer to spool up...
>
> -Curt
>
>   --
>  *From:* Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
> *To:* Andrew Strasfogel ; "mercedes@okiebenz com" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 25, 2014 4:44 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [MBZ] turbo update 82 300td
>
> The transmission is new. You guys helped me get it rebuilt by the Sun
> Valley guy.
>
> The u-shaped hose seems tight on the air cleaner. Not sure where else it
> could be leaking. Manifold obviously but it all looks fine. Maybe a soap
> bubble test is in order. In any event it does not appear to be "bad"
> functionally.
>
> For new turbos, if I could find the holset he200vg it could be truly
> modern. Anybody know what cummins motor that turbo came on?
>
> Thanks,
> Karl
>
>
>
> Whiney transmissions can go on and on too...
>
> On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Karl W via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com
> > wrote:
>
> > Then mine (85 tdt) has been bad for the last 100,000 miles. Who knew?
> > Drives fine and is not slow. I am planning to put an hx30 on there anyway
> > so maybe it was meant to be.
> > On Sep 12, 2014 7:00 AM, "Peter Frederick via Mercedes" <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > If you can actually hear the turbo whine and the air cleaner is
> > installed,
> > > you have a bad turbo (unless you have a leak between turbo and intake
> --
> > > check the 0-ring).  MB turbos are usually silent, unlike the Volvo,
> where
> > > it sounds like a police siren a couple blocks away.
> > >
> > >
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
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> > >
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> > > individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list
> owner
> > > has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
> > >
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> >
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>
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Re: [MBZ] turbo update 82 300td

2014-09-25 Thread Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes
You were right Scott - the seal was folded under. Mechanic dude put it on
too loose and I noticed how loud it was right away and shoved it back on
and tightened it down tight, but pulled it off today to check and the
groove was not in its recess in the rubber all the way around so the top of
the seal had been shoved into the plastic tube a bit. Funny thing is I knew
this was possible from the mercedessource dude on youtube and still didnt
put 2 + 2 as it did quiet down considerably after tightening. But the
silent turbo comment got me thinking. Drove a while like that. Drat.

My parents had a nice 123 sd that was silent, but even after putting the
seal on correctly I can still hear this turbo whine like I always could for
the past 13 years. 85 wagon.

Changed the oil tonight. It was pretty filthy as you might expect. Still no
blowby though on the loose valve cover cap test so i reckon it will go for
awhile yet despite me being a moron.

Thinking new turbo because why not? Midlife crisis. I paid my dues driving
this car since I was 30 and want to get to the next stoplight a bit quicker
now. Holset hy30 or 35 maybe, 120cc mw pump with 8mm elements. 2-3 atm
boost. Anybody know if I can run without the rack position sensor feeding
the egr computer? Lots of guys just block the egr off anyway but Im not
sure what else that box does apart from egr stuff. I will pull an intake
off the parts car and weld an air water intercooler to it. Hopefully I will
get to drive it awhile before rebuilding the motor! But that will just be
an excuse to put forged billet rods in it and port the head.

Now if I could only get the wipers to work...

Tanks again,
Karl

Ps some dude was getting bids of 20k on a nice-ish120k mi 82 wagon on ebay
yesterday, but it didnt sell.
I have an 82 300SD turbo which may be similar.

The big plastic "U" that connects the air cleaner to the turbo has rubber
seals at both ends and it's not hard for one of these to "fold under" or
"push out of position" when you reinstall the "U".  This condition causes a
bad seal that can let dirt in and turbo noise out.  The problem is more
likely with an old seals.  It may be worth checking if you hear unexplained
turbo noise.

If you are concerned about boost function, you can temporarily install a
plastic "tee" at the switchover valve and feed a pressure gauge to monitor
boost while driving.  I usually just tape the gauge to the outside of the
windshield vs running the hose into the passenger compartment.  This
pressure is the boost signal to the injection pump.  Turbo boost produces
almost no extra power unless the injection pump adds more fuel (via ALDA) to
burn in the extra air.

Boost pressure is limited by the waste gate that dumps excess pressure and
also an electrical overpressure switch that vents the boost signal to the
ALDA (via the switchover valve) if the boost  pressure is too high.  Higher
boost is not good; it only puts more stress on the engine.  The transmission
also has a circuit to the switchover valve to reduce boost signal to the
ALDA (less fuel/engine torque) during shifts.

Back in the Marshall Booth era, 617 turbos almost never failed unless
abused.

Scott

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> Curt Raymond via Mercedes
> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 4:50 PM
> To: Karl Wittnebel; Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] turbo update 82 300td
>
> Why bother replacing the turbo? A bigger turbo isn't (by itself anyway)
going
> to make more power and is going to take longer to spool up...
>
> -Curt
>
>
> 
>  From: Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
> To: Andrew Strasfogel ; "mercedes@okiebenz
> com" 
> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 4:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] turbo update 82 300td
>
>
> The transmission is new. You guys helped me get it rebuilt by the Sun
> Valley guy.
>
> The u-shaped hose seems tight on the air cleaner. Not sure where else it
> could be leaking. Manifold obviously but it all looks fine. Maybe a soap
> bubble test is in order. In any event it does not appear to be "bad"
> functionally.
>
> For new turbos, if I could find the holset he200vg it could be truly
> modern. Anybody know what cummins motor that turbo came on?
>
> Thanks,
> Karl
>
>
>
> Whiney transmissions can go on and on too...
>
> On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Karl W via Mercedes
>  > wrote:
>
> > Then mine (85 tdt) has been bad for the last 100,000 miles. Who knew?
> > Drives fine and is not slow. I am planning to put an hx30 on there
anyway
> > so maybe it was meant to be.
> > On Sep 12, 2014 7:00 AM, "Peter Frederick via Mercedes" <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > If you can a

Re: [MBZ] turbo update 82 300td

2014-09-25 Thread Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
I have an 82 300SD turbo which may be similar.  

The big plastic "U" that connects the air cleaner to the turbo has rubber
seals at both ends and it's not hard for one of these to "fold under" or
"push out of position" when you reinstall the "U".  This condition causes a
bad seal that can let dirt in and turbo noise out.  The problem is more
likely with an old seals.  It may be worth checking if you hear unexplained
turbo noise.

If you are concerned about boost function, you can temporarily install a
plastic "tee" at the switchover valve and feed a pressure gauge to monitor
boost while driving.  I usually just tape the gauge to the outside of the
windshield vs running the hose into the passenger compartment.  This
pressure is the boost signal to the injection pump.  Turbo boost produces
almost no extra power unless the injection pump adds more fuel (via ALDA) to
burn in the extra air.

Boost pressure is limited by the waste gate that dumps excess pressure and
also an electrical overpressure switch that vents the boost signal to the
ALDA (via the switchover valve) if the boost  pressure is too high.  Higher
boost is not good; it only puts more stress on the engine.  The transmission
also has a circuit to the switchover valve to reduce boost signal to the
ALDA (less fuel/engine torque) during shifts.

Back in the Marshall Booth era, 617 turbos almost never failed unless
abused.

Scott

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> Curt Raymond via Mercedes
> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 4:50 PM
> To: Karl Wittnebel; Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] turbo update 82 300td
> 
> Why bother replacing the turbo? A bigger turbo isn't (by itself anyway)
going
> to make more power and is going to take longer to spool up...
> 
> -Curt
> 
> 
> 
>  From: Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
> To: Andrew Strasfogel ; "mercedes@okiebenz
> com" 
> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 4:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] turbo update 82 300td
> 
> 
> The transmission is new. You guys helped me get it rebuilt by the Sun
> Valley guy.
> 
> The u-shaped hose seems tight on the air cleaner. Not sure where else it
> could be leaking. Manifold obviously but it all looks fine. Maybe a soap
> bubble test is in order. In any event it does not appear to be "bad"
> functionally.
> 
> For new turbos, if I could find the holset he200vg it could be truly
> modern. Anybody know what cummins motor that turbo came on?
> 
> Thanks,
> Karl
> 
> 
> 
> Whiney transmissions can go on and on too...
> 
> On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Karl W via Mercedes
>  > wrote:
> 
> > Then mine (85 tdt) has been bad for the last 100,000 miles. Who knew?
> > Drives fine and is not slow. I am planning to put an hx30 on there
anyway
> > so maybe it was meant to be.
> > On Sep 12, 2014 7:00 AM, "Peter Frederick via Mercedes" <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > If you can actually hear the turbo whine and the air cleaner is
> > installed,
> > > you have a bad turbo (unless you have a leak between turbo and intake
--
> > > check the 0-ring).  MB turbos are usually silent, unlike the Volvo,
where
> > > it sounds like a police siren a couple blocks away.
> > >
> > >
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
> > > individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list
owner
> > > has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
> > >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> > All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
> > individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
> > has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
> >
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or 

Re: [MBZ] turbo update 82 300td

2014-09-25 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
Why bother replacing the turbo? A bigger turbo isn't (by itself anyway) going 
to make more power and is going to take longer to spool up...

-Curt



 From: Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
To: Andrew Strasfogel ; "mercedes@okiebenz com" 
 
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] turbo update 82 300td
 

The transmission is new. You guys helped me get it rebuilt by the Sun
Valley guy.

The u-shaped hose seems tight on the air cleaner. Not sure where else it
could be leaking. Manifold obviously but it all looks fine. Maybe a soap
bubble test is in order. In any event it does not appear to be "bad"
functionally.

For new turbos, if I could find the holset he200vg it could be truly
modern. Anybody know what cummins motor that turbo came on?

Thanks,
Karl



Whiney transmissions can go on and on too...

On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Karl W via Mercedes  wrote:

> Then mine (85 tdt) has been bad for the last 100,000 miles. Who knew?
> Drives fine and is not slow. I am planning to put an hx30 on there anyway
> so maybe it was meant to be.
> On Sep 12, 2014 7:00 AM, "Peter Frederick via Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > If you can actually hear the turbo whine and the air cleaner is
> installed,
> > you have a bad turbo (unless you have a leak between turbo and intake --
> > check the 0-ring).  MB turbos are usually silent, unlike the Volvo, where
> > it sounds like a police siren a couple blocks away.
> >
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> > All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
> > individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
> > has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
> >
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
> All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>
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Re: [MBZ] turbo update 82 300td

2014-09-25 Thread Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes
The transmission is new. You guys helped me get it rebuilt by the Sun
Valley guy.

The u-shaped hose seems tight on the air cleaner. Not sure where else it
could be leaking. Manifold obviously but it all looks fine. Maybe a soap
bubble test is in order. In any event it does not appear to be "bad"
functionally.

For new turbos, if I could find the holset he200vg it could be truly
modern. Anybody know what cummins motor that turbo came on?

Thanks,
Karl
Whiney transmissions can go on and on too...

On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Karl W via Mercedes  wrote:

> Then mine (85 tdt) has been bad for the last 100,000 miles. Who knew?
> Drives fine and is not slow. I am planning to put an hx30 on there anyway
> so maybe it was meant to be.
> On Sep 12, 2014 7:00 AM, "Peter Frederick via Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > If you can actually hear the turbo whine and the air cleaner is
> installed,
> > you have a bad turbo (unless you have a leak between turbo and intake --
> > check the 0-ring).  MB turbos are usually silent, unlike the Volvo, where
> > it sounds like a police siren a couple blocks away.
> >
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> > All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
> > individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
> > has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
> >
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
> All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>
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Re: [MBZ] turbo update 82 300td

2014-09-25 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
Whiney transmissions can go on and on too...

On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Karl W via Mercedes  wrote:

> Then mine (85 tdt) has been bad for the last 100,000 miles. Who knew?
> Drives fine and is not slow. I am planning to put an hx30 on there anyway
> so maybe it was meant to be.
> On Sep 12, 2014 7:00 AM, "Peter Frederick via Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > If you can actually hear the turbo whine and the air cleaner is
> installed,
> > you have a bad turbo (unless you have a leak between turbo and intake --
> > check the 0-ring).  MB turbos are usually silent, unlike the Volvo, where
> > it sounds like a police siren a couple blocks away.
> >
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> > All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
> > individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
> > has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
> >
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
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>
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> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
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Re: [MBZ] turbo update 82 300td

2014-09-25 Thread Karl W via Mercedes
Then mine (85 tdt) has been bad for the last 100,000 miles. Who knew?
Drives fine and is not slow. I am planning to put an hx30 on there anyway
so maybe it was meant to be.
On Sep 12, 2014 7:00 AM, "Peter Frederick via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> If you can actually hear the turbo whine and the air cleaner is installed,
> you have a bad turbo (unless you have a leak between turbo and intake --
> check the 0-ring).  MB turbos are usually silent, unlike the Volvo, where
> it sounds like a police siren a couple blocks away.
>
>
> Peter
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
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> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>
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Re: [MBZ] turbo update 82 300td

2014-09-12 Thread Peter Frederick via Mercedes
On the flip side, a bad turbo will make no noise at all, since it's  
not turning very fast if at all.



Peter

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Re: [MBZ] turbo update 82 300td

2014-09-12 Thread rogerhga--- via Mercedes
Peter, 
 I'll second the silent turbo on old Benzes.  My 83 300D has 360,000 miles 
and my 80 300SD has around 425,000 miles and I've never heard the turbo in the 
approximately 18 years that I've owned them.  I agree, if you hear the turbo, 
it's an exhaust leak or a bad turbo. 
Best Wishes, 
Roger 
Roger Hale 
Dinnerware Classics, Inc. 
Monroe, Ga. 
770-267-0850 
www.dinnerwareclassics.com  (new) 
www.southernnightsantiques.com  (antique) 

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Re: [MBZ] turbo update 82 300td

2014-09-12 Thread Peter Frederick via Mercedes
If you can actually hear the turbo whine and the air cleaner is  
installed, you have a bad turbo (unless you have a leak between turbo  
and intake -- check the 0-ring).  MB turbos are usually silent, unlike  
the Volvo, where it sounds like a police siren a couple blocks away.



Peter

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Re: [MBZ] turbo update 82 300td

2014-09-12 Thread Rich Thomas via Mercedes

Strong work.

--R

On 9/11/14 8:22 PM, Rick Hawkins Java via Mercedes wrote:

Folks

Well, i drove the car today

It runs really well and is so quiet that i can again hear the turbo whine …. i 
think i could even get a speeding ticket, now … as always on WVO

MUCH IMPROVED

we'll see how the turbo does. I was dripping a few drops of oil on the lower 
drain side, but tightened the bolts a bit more

lots of things to watch

MY car has unknown mileage since the odometer doesn't work …. probably 350k 
with 90 or 100k on WVO

thanks

xx rick hawkins


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Re: [MBZ] turbo update 82 300td

2014-09-11 Thread Rick Hawkins Java via Mercedes
thanks, man

i'm sure most of the improvement was getting the manifolds attached and sealed 
correctly
thanks,

xx rick
Rick Hawkins

www.javaphoto.com
www.javacycles.com
LETTERPRESSES FOR SALE
www.ricktheprinter.com
www.letterpressmachinery.com

On Sep 11, 2014, at 10:13 PM, "WILTON"  wrote:

> ATTABOY!
> 
> Wilton
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Rick Hawkins Java via Mercedes" 
> To: "mercedes@okiebenz.com" 
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 8:22 PM
> Subject: [MBZ] turbo update 82 300td
> 
> 
> Folks
> 
> Well, i drove the car today
> 
> It runs really well and is so quiet that i can again hear the turbo whine ….
> i think i could even get a speeding ticket, now … as always on WVO
> 
> MUCH IMPROVED
> 
> we'll see how the turbo does. I was dripping a few drops of oil on the lower
> drain side, but tightened the bolts a bit more
> 
> lots of things to watch
> 
> MY car has unknown mileage since the odometer doesn't work …. probably 350k
> with 90 or 100k on WVO
> 
> thanks
> 
> xx rick hawkins
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 
> All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner has
> no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
> 

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Re: [MBZ] turbo update 82 300td

2014-09-11 Thread WILTON via Mercedes

ATTABOY!

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Rick Hawkins Java via Mercedes" 

To: "mercedes@okiebenz.com" 
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 8:22 PM
Subject: [MBZ] turbo update 82 300td


Folks

Well, i drove the car today

It runs really well and is so quiet that i can again hear the turbo whine …. 
i think i could even get a speeding ticket, now … as always on WVO


MUCH IMPROVED

we'll see how the turbo does. I was dripping a few drops of oil on the lower 
drain side, but tightened the bolts a bit more


lots of things to watch

MY car has unknown mileage since the odometer doesn't work …. probably 350k 
with 90 or 100k on WVO


thanks

xx rick hawkins


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those 
individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner has 
no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. 



___
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To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those 
individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner has no 
control over the content of the messages of each contributor.