Re: Drag and drop (2.4)
Okay, again from the Human Interface Guidelines... The biggest difficulty as of yet in MetaCard Drag & Drop is this: Select a chunk of a text and then go backwards selecting the same text. You can't do it; it will try to drag the text instead. You can also notice this in a palette: select the name of an object and then try to select it again, it will try to drag it. Drag & Drop shouldn't be sensitive if you start the selection there, only if you clearly start the selection from within the selected text. Second, and this is more platform-sensitive, Mac UI guidelines call for clear notification of what is being dragged. This translates to, on a Mac, either translucent dragging of the selection or an outline of the selection being dragged. This isn't the case on Windows, where your cursor turns into that weird "no" cursor or that "okay" cursor depending on where you drag your mouse. A poor implementation of a moderately useful idea. :) I'd vote for outline dragging since it makes it very clear what you are doing, and the current metacard cursor change isn't noticeable enough. (also, along slightly different lines, anyone know why if you type delete with the shift key down it doesn't delete? I've always found that slightly bothersome...) This isn't criticism, just thoughts. :) I was extremely happy to see drag & drop in 2.4. Wonderful addition. Best, Reed Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
Re: Drag and drop (2.4)
At 4:29 PM -0700 7/24/2001, Geoff Canyon wrote: >I understand that -- I'd just like another way to cancel a >drag and drop (again, at the OS level -- not suggesting MC >try to set a new standard here. If the thing being dragged is >small, it can be hard to hit. Tip: You can standardly cancel a drag (on MacOS) by dragging up into the menu bar. Just tried it in b4, and it looks like it doesn't do this - instead it appears to drag to the closest point inside the field. I'd suggest the drag should be canceled when you drop outside the field, with the special cursor canceled when the mouse moves outside the field. (Later on when field-to-field drags are possible, this would turn into "outside any eligible field".) -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
Re: Drag and drop (2.4)
At 4:58 PM -0500 7/24/01, Jacqueline Landman Gay wrote: >Geoff Canyon wrote: > >> I know that feeling of "whoops, now what do I do with _this_?" It would be nice if >there were a way to cancel a drag. Of course, that's an OS issue, not a MetaCard >issue. > >If you drop the text anywhere within the original selection, it should >all just go back where it was. I understand that -- I'd just like another way to cancel a drag and drop (again, at the OS level -- not suggesting MC try to set a new standard here. If the thing being dragged is small, it can be hard to hit. > >I've gotten very spoiled with drag and drop -- I use it all the time. >Cutting and pasting seems like too much work to me now. I was happy to >see it appear in MC. Agreed. I think drag and drop is great, and really important to MC. I'd rank it right alongside a multi-column listbox for developing professional applications. regards, Geoff Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
Re: Drag and drop (2.4)
on 07.24.01 2:52 PM, Dave Cragg wrote: > > Personally, I just don't like Drag and Drop as a text editing method. > Once you start dragging, you're in a kind of no-man's-land with a > live bomb where you can't simply abort the mission. You've got to > drop it somewhere. But if no one else here is bothered, then I guess > the users of my programs won't complain either. But I feel I'm going > to be in the position of making software that I wouldn't be > comfortable to use myself. I use drag and drop in Outlook Express and Word and other programs, and I like it. However, I do turn it off occasionally, when I can, to keep from tripping over it during complicated maneuvers. My feeling is that MetaCard's d&d is touchier than Microsoft's. I activate it by accident (using MetaCardPPC) MUCH more often than in other contexts. It may be, as you suggest, a matter of timing. A wee bit more delay, a tiny bit more strict about the boundaries of the selection, a little bit faster to change the cursor... On the whole I welcome the feature, but I would like to be able to turn it off and on. tereza + Tereza Snyder +Software Developer + Attainment Company, Inc. + + 608.845.7880 Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
Re: Drag and drop (2.4)
Geoff Canyon wrote: > I know that feeling of "whoops, now what do I do with _this_?" It would be nice if >there were a way to cancel a drag. Of course, that's an OS issue, not a MetaCard >issue. If you drop the text anywhere within the original selection, it should all just go back where it was. I've gotten very spoiled with drag and drop -- I use it all the time. Cutting and pasting seems like too much work to me now. I was happy to see it appear in MC. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | 612-724-1596 Custom hypermedia solutions| http://www.hyperactivesw.com Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
Re: Drag and drop (2.4)
At 8:52 PM +0100 7/24/01, Dave Cragg wrote: >Personally, I just don't like Drag and Drop as a text editing method. Once you start >dragging, you're in a kind of no-man's-land with a live bomb where you can't simply >abort the mission. You've got to drop it somewhere. But if no one else here is >bothered, then I guess the users of my programs won't complain either. But I feel >I'm going to be in the position of making software that I wouldn't be comfortable to >use myself. I know that feeling of "whoops, now what do I do with _this_?" It would be nice if there were a way to cancel a drag. Of course, that's an OS issue, not a MetaCard issue. regards, Geoff Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
Re: Drag and drop (2.4)
At 8:39 am -0700 24/7/01, Geoff Canyon wrote: >At 10:59 AM +0100 7/24/01, Dave Cragg wrote: >>In the current beta, after selecting text, clicking down on the >>selection *immediately* switches to the Drag and Drop cursor, and >>any subsequent dragging of the mouse will move the selected text. > >Isn't this the way it happens everywhere? On the Mac, in Eudora, >iCab, and the NotePad, it does. You're right. I should have done my homework more thoroughly. However, all the "serious" text editing tools I use (word processors, graphic tools) have an option to turn off Drag and Drop, or allow use of a modifier key to switch it on. And, with one exception, they all show an outline box as you drag the text, making it more obvious what you are doing before it's too late. Personally, I just don't like Drag and Drop as a text editing method. Once you start dragging, you're in a kind of no-man's-land with a live bomb where you can't simply abort the mission. You've got to drop it somewhere. But if no one else here is bothered, then I guess the users of my programs won't complain either. But I feel I'm going to be in the position of making software that I wouldn't be comfortable to use myself. Cheers Dave Cragg Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
Re: Drag and drop (2.4)
At 10:59 AM +0100 7/24/01, Dave Cragg wrote: >In the current beta, after selecting text, clicking down on the selection >*immediately* switches to the Drag and Drop cursor, and any subsequent dragging of >the mouse will move the selected text. Isn't this the way it happens everywhere? On the Mac, in Eudora, iCab, and the NotePad, it does. regards Geoff Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
Drag and drop (2.4)
At 1:06 am -0500 24/7/01, Jacqueline Landman Gay wrote: >Yay! From the 2.4b4 Read Me: > >> The showFocusBorder governs whether a focus border is drawn around the >> object when it has the keyboard focus. > >Thanks so much, Scott. Thanks too. But give us an inch. I asked before for a way to turn off Drag and Drop in fields. But looking at it again, I think the behavior of the Drag and Drop should be changed slightly. In the current beta, after selecting text, clicking down on the selection *immediately* switches to the Drag and Drop cursor, and any subsequent dragging of the mouse will move the selected text. This means we can't change our selection by clicking in the currently selected text (to select a new start position) and dragging elsewhere. (I've already made a royal mess of a script by trying to do this.) I'd prefer a slight delay (half a second perhaps) before the Drag and Drop mode kicks in. Before that time, dragging the mouse should just change the selection in the conventional way. Also, more visual indication that Drag and Drop is now on would be nice. (e.g. border round the selected text, more obvious cursor, warning siren , etc.). Most apps I use that have drag and drop do something like this. Ideally, I'd like to have the option to turn Drag and Drop off and have the above behavior when it is on. But I'd probably settle for a slightly more forgiving implementation than the current one. If none of this is possible right now, then my preference would be to disable Drag and Drop completely in this release. (The current limitation of dragging within a field gives it limited usefulness.) Cheers Dave Cragg Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
