[meteorite-list] Searching for Erich Haiderer
Hello to the List, I' m sending messages to Erich Haiderer for more than a week but I've got no answer. Does anybody know if he's on a trip or on vacation ? Thanks, Pierre-Marie Pele www.meteor-center.com Vous manquez despace pour stocker vos mails ? Yahoo! Mail vous offre GRATUITEMENT 100 Mo ! Créez votre Yahoo! Mail sur http://fr.benefits.yahoo.com/ Le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger est arrivé ! Découvrez toutes les nouveautés pour dialoguer instantanément avec vos amis. A télécharger gratuitement sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] RE: Nice Dronino?
Or storing it in oil after the alcohol/NaOH bath? As I say before, I stored my etched droninos oiled with Balistol in open air and they looks stable for some months. And I not used on them NaOH solution yet. I etched them around may/june and maybe 2 weeks ago I sell my last one. -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of: Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: [meteorite-list] RE: Dronino rusting
Dear Listees, The problem with rusting of very weathered iron meteorites isn't primarily the oxygen, but the air humidity. Rusting is an electrochemical process, which is dramatically enhanced by the presence of salts withing cracks and grain boundaries of the meteorite. The most problematic salts in this sense are chlorides like NaCl, but other salts like nitrates or sulfates will also enhance corrosion. A) There are a number of solutions how to get rusting irons STABLE by removing or converting the incorporated salts: 1. the ULTIMATE (but most difficult and expensive!) way is to apply a hydrogen plasma to the meteorite: In detail: you need a vacuum chamber, a gas bottle of hyrogen, tubing and gas inlet into the chamber, a vacuum pump, an exhaust to pump the hydogen out of the chamber, a microwave magnetron or rf-generator to ignite a plasma. The hydrogen plasma will reduce the iron oxides and the halogens of the salts converted to volatile components (e.g. HCl) which will be pumped off the chamber. The problem with this technique, which was first applied by Vagn Buchwald for the preservation of archological artifacts (e.g. Viking iron swords): it is almost impossible for private collectors to establish! The whole system must be explosion-proof, no presence of oxygen in the chamber, exhaust line to get the hydrogen outward your building, etc. I have done this in the past with rusty Campos and it is working perfectly. These specimens are almost as stable as freshly fallen iron meteorites. The drawback is: all iron oxides present will be converted to metallic iron (black powder)! 2. the SECOND best solution is to draw the salts out of the cracks by applying electrolysis using KOH or NaOH solution (electrochemical cleaning). This technique is well established and described in detail here: http://nautarch.tamu.edu/class/anth605/File10a.htm#ELECTROCHEMICAL 3. a not-so-good technique is just to place the specimen in a NaOH or KOH solution, because a) the leaching and convertion of salts in deep cracks is controlled by diffusion processes b) it is incomplete as the halogen ions are not forced out of the cracks into the solution B) The best methods of storing corrosion-sensitive specimens are: 1. The ULTIMATE method, but not very practical for collector who often handle their meteorite specimens, is simply to keep the specimen in concentrated KOH or NaOH solution. It will no more rust as the iron is safely passivated due to the very high pH (alkaline) value. Curious: I have seen an iron specimen (don't recall which meteorite it was) on display in a show room of the Geological Museum in Copenhagen, which was kept in such a solution (I guess, Vagn Buchwald did it!). So, if you have very valuable meteorites, this is an ultima ratio to preserve it (man, I should have done it with my Admire slice, 10 years ago - now its fallen apart!) 2. The second best method is to keep all humidity away from the specimen (and if you have, you can put it in nitrogen). For myself, I use a professional dry storage box, in which I place my corrosion-sensitive iron an pallasite specimens. I place commercially available desiccant (with cobalt color indicator) in the storage box which has to be changed (and dried in a microwave oven) from time to time. These measures keep the relative humidity down below 20%, which is more-or-less sufficient to prevent rusting. 3. A not so good - or even harmful - method is to apply a polymer coating on the specimens or to place it in a plastic bag, because neither will prevent the humidity (H2O molecules) from permeating through the usually few microns of polymer. The disaster is that, if corrosion has started, it is accelerated by the increasing humidity and acidity within this micro environment. This method is only feasible, if you add desiccant to the plastic bag. However, you have to change the desiccant very often. Otherwise, it will have the same effect as without desiccant (see above). Best regards, Jörn Koblitz / MetBase -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Jonathan Gore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Freitag, 26. November 2004 06:45 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] RE: Nice Dronino? Or storing it in oil after the alcohol/NaOH bath? JKGwilliam wrote: Have any of you who are fighting with rust/decay problems with Dronino tried storing with desiccant in an airtight container after treating with the alcohol/NaOH bath? I can remember Steve Shoner telling the list about using the alcohol/NaOH solution bath. As best as I can remember, he was the developer of this process and had tested it over a long period of time. Two weeks in the bath might not be enough. If the solution becomes discolored, put the specimen in a fresh batch of the solution and remember to stir it gently every day. Some stubborn meteorites might take months in the solution to produce the right
WG: [meteorite-list]: Preservation and storage of iron meteorites
Dear Listees, The problem with rusting of very weathered iron meteorites isn't primarily the oxygen, but the air humidity. Rusting is an electrochemical process, which is dramatically enhanced by the presence of salts withing cracks and grain boundaries of the meteorite. The most problematic salts in this sense are chlorides like NaCl, but other salts like nitrates or sulfates will also enhance corrosion. A) There are a number of solutions how to get rusting irons STABLE by removing or converting the incorporated salts: 1. the ULTIMATE (but most difficult and expensive!) way is to apply a hydrogen plasma to the meteorite: In detail: you need a vacuum chamber, a gas bottle of hyrogen, tubing and gas inlet into the chamber, a vacuum pump, an exhaust to pump the hydogen out of the chamber, a microwave magnetron or rf-generator to ignite a plasma. The hydrogen plasma will reduce the iron oxides and the halogens of the salts converted to volatile components (e.g. HCl) which will be pumped off the chamber. The problem with this technique, which was first applied by Vagn Buchwald for the preservation of archological artifacts (e.g. Viking iron swords): it is almost impossible for private collectors to establish! The whole system must be explosion-proof, no presence of oxygen in the chamber, exhaust line to get the hydrogen outward your building, etc. I have done this in the past with rusty Campos and it is working perfectly. These specimens are almost as stable as freshly fallen iron meteorites. The drawback is: all iron oxides present will be converted to metallic iron (black powder)! 2. the SECOND best solution is to draw the salts out of the cracks by applying electrolysis using KOH or NaOH solution (electrochemical cleaning). This technique is well established and described in detail here: http://nautarch.tamu.edu/class/anth605/File10a.htm#ELECTROCHEMICAL 3. a not-so-good technique is just to place the specimen in a NaOH or KOH solution, because a) the leaching and convertion of salts in deep cracks is controlled by diffusion processes b) it is incomplete as the halogen ions are not forced out of the cracks into the solution B) The best methods of storing corrosion-sensitive specimens are: 1. The ULTIMATE method, but not very practical for collector who often handle their meteorite specimens, is simply to keep the specimen in concentrated KOH or NaOH solution. It will no more rust as the iron is safely passivated due to the very high pH (alkaline) value. Curious: I have seen an iron specimen (don't recall which meteorite it was) on display in a show room of the Geological Museum in Copenhagen, which was kept in such a solution (I guess, Vagn Buchwald did it!). So, if you have very valuable meteorites, this is an ultima ratio to preserve it (man, I should have done it with my Admire slice, 10 years ago - now its fallen apart!) 2. The second best method is to keep all humidity away from the specimen (and if you have, you can put it in nitrogen). For myself, I use a professional dry storage box, in which I place my corrosion-sensitive iron an pallasite specimens. I place commercially available desiccant (with cobalt color indicator) in the storage box which has to be changed (and dried in a microwave oven) from time to time. These measures keep the relative humidity down below 20%, which is more-or-less sufficient to prevent rusting. 3. A not so good - or even harmful - method is to apply a polymer coating on the specimens or to place it in a plastic bag, because neither will prevent the humidity (H2O molecules) from permeating through the usually few microns of polymer. The disaster is that, if corrosion has started, it is accelerated by the increasing humidity and acidity within this micro environment. This method is only feasible, if you add desiccant to the plastic bag. However, you have to change the desiccant very often. Otherwise, it will have the same effect as without desiccant (see above). Best regards, Jörn Koblitz / MetBase -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Jonathan Gore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Freitag, 26. November 2004 06:45 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] RE: Nice Dronino? Or storing it in oil after the alcohol/NaOH bath? JKGwilliam wrote: Have any of you who are fighting with rust/decay problems with Dronino tried storing with desiccant in an airtight container after treating with the alcohol/NaOH bath? I can remember Steve Shoner telling the list about using the alcohol/NaOH solution bath. As best as I can remember, he was the developer of this process and had tested it over a long period of time. Two weeks in the bath might not be enough. If the solution becomes discolored, put the specimen in a fresh batch of the solution and remember to stir it gently every day. Some stubborn meteorites might take months in the solution to produce the right
[meteorite-list] AW: NWA's, Dealers, Science, NomCom IMCA
Hi Bernhard, Mark, and List, First, be assured that the IMCA is watching this discussion with great interest - if you are referring to its Board Members. At least I am. However, if you have questions, or some critical remarks, please address them directly to the IMCA Board, or address them on the proper platform which would be the IMCA list. Remember, not all IMCA Members or IMCA Board Members do subscribe to the MeteoriteCentral mailing list. Second, you are certainly correct - the communication inside the IMCA could and should be better, but that's something that doesn't just involve the Board since the IMCA wasn't designed to be a one-way street. As IMCA members you are part of the IMCA, so please don't play us and them. The people on the Board all do their job on a voluntary basis, and for no profit. They are spending hours and hours behind the scenes (besides their daily full-time jobs, their family life, and other involvements), and they are also working, and discussing along the lines that have been discussed over here. As for the NWA dilemma, pairing issue, and all the other issues involved, we have no easy solution at hands (did you expect us to?). If you ask for my personal opinion as a meteorite collector, and IMCA member I'll be glad to share my thoughts. But I can't speak for the Board so you'll have to wait for a communique, or whatever we'll come up with. Anyway, thanks for speaking up. We appreciate your input. Best, Norbert Classen IMCA #7606 -Mark Ford wrote:- Bernhard, I really don't want to criticize the IMCA, but I am Sorry to say I agree with your statement, just when the biggest turmoil in years has kicked up, about authenticity, (which incidentally is exactly what they where started up for in the first place!!), - they seem to have gone an 'unearthly quiet'! Best, Mark -Bernhard Rendelius Rems wrote:- Well, IMCA has made a call for a design for such a card lately, and I even submitted one to them. No answer, and nothing else on this matter :-( It seems to me that IMCA spends a lot of energy on the structuring of the management lately, and less on other things. And their communication towards the members is something they have to improve. One could have the impression now that IMCA acts like an elite circle and not like a representation of collectors. For example: Since I am member of IMCA, I haven't received a single mail to members about what is going on inside of IMCA. I have been contacted by individuals within IMCA, yes, on different matters I proposed and offered, but these were personal contacts. Would I have remained a silent member, I would know nothing about what IMCA is doing right now. Yes, this is some critizism, but I think it is needed. _ Best regards, Bernhard Rendelius Rems CEO RPGDot Network This outgoing mail has been virus-checked. -Mark Ford wrote:- This is exactly why I suggested ages ago that we adopt a standardized meteorite Record card, then any information follows the piece around. I do feel the IMCA should step in here, authenticity is paramount in our field, and confidence is dripping away FAST! Best, Mark Ford __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: LaCriolla + State Of Met. Market
Alright, I give up folks. The first person to make a reasonable offer to me takes it. I can't afford to keep the specimen at this particular time. And a quick word of advise to anyone new considering collecting meteorites as an investment, don't count on your investment to do well for ya. I've sold a handful of meteorites through either eBay or the list once in a while, just simply trying to rotate out the old stock, and I very rarely even got my money back for them. It's like I've been renting specimens for so many dollars per month. Maybe it's just me though; I just like to purchase meteorites, enjoy them for a while, and then pass them on for someone else to enjoy. Then find new ones to display. No need in hoarding hundreds of dollars of rocks to put on my shelves. I just don't understand the meteorite market... It's in a worse state than the U.S. economy that Bill Clinton had left for George W. Bush. Unless you're a well-known dealer you can say goodbye to that original retail price, and even then it's not a guarantee. Just ask Mike Farmer; I've seen too many of his museum grade pieces go for the price of rice. Anyway, sorry for my rambling. And whomever wants the La Criolla can have it for whatever they feel like paying for it. But let's be reasonableplease. Thank you for your time. Regards, Ryan - Original Message - From: RYAN PAWELSKI To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 1:02 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Price Drop-LaCriolla Individual Good Evening... I just wanted to let anyone interested in a very nice (partially-oriented) LaCroilla individual know that I must sell this specimen, so I am now forced to reduce the price $.50/g. So $329.15 + $3.85 shipping takes it. This price is less than what I had originally paid for it. Please email for photos. Thanks for looking. Best Regards, Ryan --- RYAN PAWELSKI [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Opps.. I forgot to mention; the La Croilla is fully crusted with acception of the one side (~15%) with secondary crust (with crater) and a tiny chip on one corner exposing the chalky white interior. A very nice stone to say the least. I'll be available a couple hours yet if anybody is interested. Good night! Ryan -Original Message- From: RYAN PAWELSKI [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Nov 15, 2004 11:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: HTF Baby Mbale And La Croilla Individuals Good Evening List, I'm thinning out my collection a bit, so I would like to offer a couple of awesome hard to find small individuals from my collection to you folks. 1. Mbale 17.20g fresh individual with thick black crust ~98% crusted. A beaut! $172.00 2. La Croilla 22.70g partially-oriented fresh individual with awesome black crust. Secondary crust on one side featuring a tiny crater where an entire chondrule fell out either during flight or impact! Gorgeous! Collected in Argentina shortly after the fall by none other than the meteorite man himself, Bob Haag. $340.50 1st come, 1st serve! Please email for photos if interested. Postage will be $3.85 and I do accept Paypal to this email address. Thanks for looking. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Nice Dronino
Nels and list, Yes but let's not forget that ALL iron meteorites rust, this will affect all pieces if they are not stored in a reasonably dry place... I have even seen rusty Chinga pieces, and that stuff is practially natural stainless steel! Mark Ford -Original Message- From: Nelson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 November 2004 13:24 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Nice Dronino Dear List, I can't see getting any meteorite I have to spend hours fretting over and dipping in solutions et al. There are so many fantastic pieces to be had that just allow you to love'm and stare at them and enjoy them.. Thanks Nels __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: LaCriolla + State Of Met. Market
Ryan, yes, the meteorite market is strange, I must confess though, that Bill Clinton Left George Bush TRILLIONS of dollars in surplus, now, that is TRILLIONS of dollars in deficit. I guess the rich needed that extra money to buy a new Mercedes or two The meteorite market was smoking back in 2000. Now it is on life support. Too many so called dealers, people trying to buy in Morocco and make a .10 cent a gram profit etc has collapsed the market. Indeed, I am sick to see so many classic pieces, and rare meteorites selling for pennies on the dollar. Still, no one should be in this just for profit or investment, buy something you love, otherwise, buy stocks . Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: RYAN PAWELSKI [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 5:23 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: LaCriolla + State Of Met. Market Alright, I give up folks. The first person to make a reasonable offer to me takes it. I can't afford to keep the specimen at this particular time. And a quick word of advise to anyone new considering collecting meteorites as an investment, don't count on your investment to do well for ya. I've sold a handful of meteorites through either eBay or the list once in a while, just simply trying to rotate out the old stock, and I very rarely even got my money back for them. It's like I've been renting specimens for so many dollars per month. Maybe it's just me though; I just like to purchase meteorites, enjoy them for a while, and then pass them on for someone else to enjoy. Then find new ones to display. No need in hoarding hundreds of dollars of rocks to put on my shelves. I just don't understand the meteorite market... It's in a worse state than the U.S. economy that Bill Clinton had left for George W. Bush. Unless you're a well-known dealer you can say goodbye to that original retail price, and even then it's not a guarantee. Just ask Mike Farmer; I've seen too many of his museum grade pieces go for the price of rice. Anyway, sorry for my rambling. And whomever wants the La Criolla can have it for whatever they feel like paying for it. But let's be reasonableplease. Thank you for your time. Regards, Ryan - Original Message - From: RYAN PAWELSKI To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 1:02 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Price Drop-LaCriolla Individual Good Evening... I just wanted to let anyone interested in a very nice (partially-oriented) LaCroilla individual know that I must sell this specimen, so I am now forced to reduce the price $.50/g. So $329.15 + $3.85 shipping takes it. This price is less than what I had originally paid for it. Please email for photos. Thanks for looking. Best Regards, Ryan --- RYAN PAWELSKI [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Opps.. I forgot to mention; the La Croilla is fully crusted with acception of the one side (~15%) with secondary crust (with crater) and a tiny chip on one corner exposing the chalky white interior. A very nice stone to say the least. I'll be available a couple hours yet if anybody is interested. Good night! Ryan -Original Message- From: RYAN PAWELSKI [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Nov 15, 2004 11:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: HTF Baby Mbale And La Croilla Individuals Good Evening List, I'm thinning out my collection a bit, so I would like to offer a couple of awesome hard to find small individuals from my collection to you folks. 1. Mbale 17.20g fresh individual with thick black crust ~98% crusted. A beaut! $172.00 2. La Croilla 22.70g partially-oriented fresh individual with awesome black crust. Secondary crust on one side featuring a tiny crater where an entire chondrule fell out either during flight or impact! Gorgeous! Collected in Argentina shortly after the fall by none other than the meteorite man himself, Bob Haag. $340.50 1st come, 1st serve! Please email for photos if interested. Postage will be $3.85 and I do accept Paypal to this email address. Thanks for looking. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: LaCriolla + State Of Met. Market
Dear Michael and all, Michael, political ramblings are no place for this list. Please refrain from doing so any more. If we can talk about politics then why not religion, classic cars, cigars, coin collecting or what have you? A big part of the market is and has been hurt by useless fighting, all on this un- moderated list. Let's talk meteorites and follow Art's rules. --AL Mitterling __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: LaCriolla + State Of Met. Market
I agree. But don't forget who started this political argument... Bernhard At 15:52 26.11.2004, you wrote: Dear Michael and all, Michael, political ramblings are no place for this list. Please refrain from doing so any more. If we can talk about politics then why not religion, classic cars, cigars, coin collecting or what have you? A big part of the market is and has been hurt by useless fighting, all on this un- moderated list. Let's talk meteorites and follow Art's rules. --AL Mitterling __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: LaCriolla + State Of Met. Market
I agree with Bernhard, wag a disapproving finger at the real instigator. Mike only corrected Ryan's incorrect statement. JKG At 09:07 AM 11/26/2004, Bernhard \Rendelius\ Rems wrote: I agree. But don't forget who started this political argument... Bernhard At 15:52 26.11.2004, you wrote: Dear Michael and all, Michael, political ramblings are no place for this list. Please refrain from doing so any more. If we can talk about politics then why not religion, classic cars, cigars, coin collecting or what have you? A big part of the market is and has been hurt by useless fighting, all on this un- moderated list. Let's talk meteorites and follow Art's rules. --AL Mitterling __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Political Ramblings and Collection Habits
political ramblings are no place for this list. .. because this will automatically split this haunted place into at least two opposing factions mirroring the election results in the USA. no one should be in this just for profit or investment, buy something you love ... I have never considered my meteorite collection a financial investment. The opposite is true, ... my meteorite collection absorbs a lot of money. Its absolute (objective?) value would presently amount to several 10,000 dollars but if I ever intended to sell it, I would probably get no more than 1/3 this sum or even less (rule of thumb for stamps when I was a serious and passionate collector). Collectibles lose their inherent charm as soon as we see the money first like Uncle Scrooge does :-) That was also the case when I started selling some of my rarer stamps many years ago. As soon as I saw in them a potential source of making money, the joy, the charm these little works of art imparted was gone for good. Best regards, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] nwa 835
Hello List I want ask for help with identification true info about NWA835 I buy it from Pitmann in 2000 in Gifhorn as H4, TKW 1104g, 16.11.2000 In catalogue M. Grady it not exist, but in last A to Z it is as H6, TKW1104, found 30.11.2000 Someone have this meteorite ? For sure it is H4, with nice brecciation and many visible chondrules. thanks for help -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of: Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Political Ramblings and Collection Habits
Well, it certainly depends on WHEN you started collecting. I agree that the expensive pieces are dirt-cheap even today and were expensive some time ago, but the OC material has been cheaper last year. The bargains with pieces below $ 100 have certainly decreased. But if you have a lot to spend, you can get larger pieces very cheap. But I am still convinced that the gold rush is coming to an end... Bernhard At 17:21 26.11.2004, you wrote: political ramblings are no place for this list. .. because this will automatically split this haunted place into at least two opposing factions mirroring the election results in the USA. no one should be in this just for profit or investment, buy something you love ... I have never considered my meteorite collection a financial investment. The opposite is true, ... my meteorite collection absorbs a lot of money. Its absolute (objective?) value would presently amount to several 10,000 dollars but if I ever intended to sell it, I would probably get no more than 1/3 this sum or even less (rule of thumb for stamps when I was a serious and passionate collector). Collectibles lose their inherent charm as soon as we see the money first like Uncle Scrooge does :-) That was also the case when I started selling some of my rarer stamps many years ago. As soon as I saw in them a potential source of making money, the joy, the charm these little works of art imparted was gone for good. Best regards, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NWA 835
I want ask for help with identification true info about NWA 835 I buy it from Pitmann in 2000 in Gifhorn as H4, TKW 1104g, 16.11.2000 In catalogue M. Grady it not exist, but in last A to Z it is as H6, TKW1104, found 30.11.2000 Here is what the Meteoritical Bulletin says: Northwest Africa 835 H6, S4; W1; br 1104 gr; 9 pieces; Olivine Fa19.5; pyroxene Fs17.3 Type specimen 29.9 g. Classified by A. Greshake (MNB) and M. Kurz (Kurz); type specimen, MNB, main mass, Kurz (Met.Bull. 86, 2002). Especially the Fa and Fs values make NWA 835 an equilibrated H chondrite (H5 or H6). Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NWA 835 and Cole Creek
For sure it is H4, with nice brecciation and many visible chondrules. Marcin and List, Just look at Cole Creek. It is a sea of well-defined chondrules, and still, ... it is an H5 chondrite (Fa = 18.5). Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] For the Hupe's and who have the main mass of NWA998
Its like car insurance, too many false claims and it affects everybody else's premiums. In the case of meteorites, fraud drives the price down across the board because it kills consumer confidence. - Original Message - From: McomeMeteorite Meteorite [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 3:56 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] For the Hupe's and who have the main mass of NWA998 Hello Take a look this ebay auction http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemcategory=3239item=2288601328rd=1 For me is not martian meteorite, but a fake Matteo _ Personalizza MSN Messenger con sfondi e fotografie! http://www.ilovemessenger.msn.it/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 787, 869, 904
Yes, I wouldent argue with Dr Rubin. And Rubin got a section of NWA869 and called it a L4 and then from the EXACT SAME ROCK got another section and called it an L5. Two parts of the VERY SAME ROCK that Rubin got pieces of were of a different classification. That should tell you the rock is not consistant. Then you go and sell Stan a piece of your very own NWA904 that you somehow cant figure out is mothing more than another piece of NWA869. The piece that you sold stan is so different from your photos of the other parts of the NWA904 stone (The nice part in the photo in your marketing with the black spots) that when you saw stan resell it as NWA904 (Legitamately since he got this piece of NWA904 from you - see archaives of stans postings over the past couple of days) you accuse him of substituting another rock (Presumably NWA869) and improperly selling it as NWA904. You cant even recogonize your very own NWA904 stone and you yourself is calling your own NWA904 stone 869 in your attack on stan for selling it as NWA904 saying that he paired the stone himself (When as per his email yesterday he bought this NWA904 directly from you). So no, I am not disputing what Alan Rubin is saying. I am totally agreeing with Rubin (And in your accusing attack on stan agreeing with you also) that NWA904 is just another piece of the very beautiful and highly brecciated NWA869. Sincerely DEAN --- Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dean, I will take the word of Dr. Rubin, a skilled scientists with a Ph.D. and decades of experience over somebody who does not even collect meteorites and is only in it for the money. Happy Holiday, Adam - Original Message - From: dean bessey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 787, 869, 904 You know, you can wish all you want that you dont have a lot of NWA869 pairings (And I am using NWA869 because thats my number and its the most commonly accepted name for this HUGE fall - Even the moroccans refer to it as NWA869) but like the boggy creek martian rainforest, wishing wont make it happen. And saying that it has to be definatively paired by some scientist is taking advantage of the well known fact that scientists are unable to pair thousands of meteorites scientifically. If you buy 100 kilos of NWA869 (Which, as you all know, I have done once or twice) and if there are 2 or 3 kilos of other stuff mixed in they show up like a sore thumb. This meteorite is very easy to recogonize. Take a look at this photo: http://www.meteoriteshop.com/ebay/nwa869samples.jpg The Hupes do a very good job at polishing their specimens (Way better than I do) so the shine is not on my photos like on theirs but if my scan doesnt convince you that NWA869 is very brecciated then nothing well. Look at all the inclusions. Look at the big black spot in the upper piece. What NWA904 is, is a NWA869 specimen that has all of high points mixed together in one stone. Only maybe 1 in 10 pieces has the black spots. I wish that I had a better piece that looks more like NWA904 by itself but those pieces always sell very quickly and dont come up that often and I always try and sell anything that I have fast and dont put the same effort into making the specimens pretty like teh hupes does. But most of the things in NWA904 are in one of the specimens in my photo. As far as saying that it is unofficial because it is not in the bulletin well, so what? Alan Rubin classified a piece as L4 and then asked for another piece from the same stone and called it an L5. Rubin got two different classifications from samples taken from the same stone. The meteorite has so much stuff in it that it has some interest among scientists and rather than take Rubins L5 classification (Taken from a L5 part of a non brecciated section of this meteorite - you cant get everything in this meteorite showing in a 20 gram sample so what do you expect from a classification taken from one thin section) I have agreed to send michael zolonsky at JSC a more representative section of NWA869 than what Rubin was given. Unfortunately Mr Zolonsky must be away or something as I have been unable to contact him for well over a month now (Jeff, do you know when he will be back?). As you all know getting classifications is very slow at the best of times (I am 3 years or more now waiting on NWA300 and NWA304 for example from the russian academy of sciences). So the fact that one of the most exciting and interesting common chodrites from NWA (Not to mention easily the most talked about on this list over the past couple of years) is slow getting published in the bulletin is not surprising and it certainly dont in any way lessen the excitement this meteorite has caused. It certainly dont make recogonizing it any more
Re: [meteorite-list] 787, 869, 904
Dean, Four List members who did not engage in the recent dealer Wolf Pack type tactics gave their opinions and all say NWA 904 is different from NW 869 and this was just last week. In previous statements you were completely wrong about NWA 1109 which is a meteorite we had classified. It has 0% Orthopyroxene meaning no laboratory in their right mind would ever call it a Howardite. Several type specimens were submitted from three different stones and no Orthopyroxene was found. If you take the time to read the Met Bulletins you will see we submitted multiple type specimens and four thin-sections. Please stop commenting on things you know nothing about and we will do the same. All the best, Adam - Original Message - From: dean bessey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 9:30 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 787, 869, 904 Yes, I wouldent argue with Dr Rubin. And Rubin got a section of NWA869 and called it a L4 and then from the EXACT SAME ROCK got another section and called it an L5. Two parts of the VERY SAME ROCK that Rubin got pieces of were of a different classification. That should tell you the rock is not consistant. Then you go and sell Stan a piece of your very own NWA904 that you somehow cant figure out is mothing more than another piece of NWA869. The piece that you sold stan is so different from your photos of the other parts of the NWA904 stone (The nice part in the photo in your marketing with the black spots) that when you saw stan resell it as NWA904 (Legitamately since he got this piece of NWA904 from you - see archaives of stans postings over the past couple of days) you accuse him of substituting another rock (Presumably NWA869) and improperly selling it as NWA904. You cant even recogonize your very own NWA904 stone and you yourself is calling your own NWA904 stone 869 in your attack on stan for selling it as NWA904 saying that he paired the stone himself (When as per his email yesterday he bought this NWA904 directly from you). So no, I am not disputing what Alan Rubin is saying. I am totally agreeing with Rubin (And in your accusing attack on stan agreeing with you also) that NWA904 is just another piece of the very beautiful and highly brecciated NWA869. Sincerely DEAN --- Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dean, I will take the word of Dr. Rubin, a skilled scientists with a Ph.D. and decades of experience over somebody who does not even collect meteorites and is only in it for the money. Happy Holiday, Adam - Original Message - From: dean bessey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 787, 869, 904 You know, you can wish all you want that you dont have a lot of NWA869 pairings (And I am using NWA869 because thats my number and its the most commonly accepted name for this HUGE fall - Even the moroccans refer to it as NWA869) but like the boggy creek martian rainforest, wishing wont make it happen. And saying that it has to be definatively paired by some scientist is taking advantage of the well known fact that scientists are unable to pair thousands of meteorites scientifically. If you buy 100 kilos of NWA869 (Which, as you all know, I have done once or twice) and if there are 2 or 3 kilos of other stuff mixed in they show up like a sore thumb. This meteorite is very easy to recogonize. Take a look at this photo: http://www.meteoriteshop.com/ebay/nwa869samples.jpg The Hupes do a very good job at polishing their specimens (Way better than I do) so the shine is not on my photos like on theirs but if my scan doesnt convince you that NWA869 is very brecciated then nothing well. Look at all the inclusions. Look at the big black spot in the upper piece. What NWA904 is, is a NWA869 specimen that has all of high points mixed together in one stone. Only maybe 1 in 10 pieces has the black spots. I wish that I had a better piece that looks more like NWA904 by itself but those pieces always sell very quickly and dont come up that often and I always try and sell anything that I have fast and dont put the same effort into making the specimens pretty like teh hupes does. But most of the things in NWA904 are in one of the specimens in my photo. As far as saying that it is unofficial because it is not in the bulletin well, so what? Alan Rubin classified a piece as L4 and then asked for another piece from the same stone and called it an L5. Rubin got two different classifications from samples taken from the same stone. The meteorite has so much stuff in it that it has some interest among scientists and rather than take Rubins L5 classification (Taken from a L5 part of a non brecciated section of this meteorite - you cant
[meteorite-list] Extended Thanksgiving
Dear Dean, I want to personally thank you for extending Thanksgiving for us. Thanks for keeping the dead horse alive, we just can't get enough of it. If you keep kicking it long enough you will have produced so much fertilizer that you will have a heck of a bumper crop next spring. Thanks again Dean, where would we be without fruits and vegetables! Greg - Original Message - From: dean bessey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 787, 869, 904 Yes, I wouldent argue with Dr Rubin. And Rubin got a section of NWA869 and called it a L4 and then from the EXACT SAME ROCK got another section and called it an L5. Two parts of the VERY SAME ROCK that Rubin got pieces of were of a different classification. That should tell you the rock is not consistant. Then you go and sell Stan a piece of your very own NWA904 that you somehow cant figure out is mothing more than another piece of NWA869. The piece that you sold stan is so different from your photos of the other parts of the NWA904 stone (The nice part in the photo in your marketing with the black spots) that when you saw stan resell it as NWA904 (Legitamately since he got this piece of NWA904 from you - see archaives of stans postings over the past couple of days) you accuse him of substituting another rock (Presumably NWA869) and improperly selling it as NWA904. You cant even recogonize your very own NWA904 stone and you yourself is calling your own NWA904 stone 869 in your attack on stan for selling it as NWA904 saying that he paired the stone himself (When as per his email yesterday he bought this NWA904 directly from you). So no, I am not disputing what Alan Rubin is saying. I am totally agreeing with Rubin (And in your accusing attack on stan agreeing with you also) that NWA904 is just another piece of the very beautiful and highly brecciated NWA869. Sincerely DEAN --- Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dean, I will take the word of Dr. Rubin, a skilled scientists with a Ph.D. and decades of experience over somebody who does not even collect meteorites and is only in it for the money. Happy Holiday, Adam - Original Message - From: dean bessey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 787, 869, 904 You know, you can wish all you want that you dont have a lot of NWA869 pairings (And I am using NWA869 because thats my number and its the most commonly accepted name for this HUGE fall - Even the moroccans refer to it as NWA869) but like the boggy creek martian rainforest, wishing wont make it happen. And saying that it has to be definatively paired by some scientist is taking advantage of the well known fact that scientists are unable to pair thousands of meteorites scientifically. If you buy 100 kilos of NWA869 (Which, as you all know, I have done once or twice) and if there are 2 or 3 kilos of other stuff mixed in they show up like a sore thumb. This meteorite is very easy to recogonize. Take a look at this photo: http://www.meteoriteshop.com/ebay/nwa869samples.jpg The Hupes do a very good job at polishing their specimens (Way better than I do) so the shine is not on my photos like on theirs but if my scan doesnt convince you that NWA869 is very brecciated then nothing well. Look at all the inclusions. Look at the big black spot in the upper piece. What NWA904 is, is a NWA869 specimen that has all of high points mixed together in one stone. Only maybe 1 in 10 pieces has the black spots. I wish that I had a better piece that looks more like NWA904 by itself but those pieces always sell very quickly and dont come up that often and I always try and sell anything that I have fast and dont put the same effort into making the specimens pretty like teh hupes does. But most of the things in NWA904 are in one of the specimens in my photo. As far as saying that it is unofficial because it is not in the bulletin well, so what? Alan Rubin classified a piece as L4 and then asked for another piece from the same stone and called it an L5. Rubin got two different classifications from samples taken from the same stone. The meteorite has so much stuff in it that it has some interest among scientists and rather than take Rubins L5 classification (Taken from a L5 part of a non brecciated section of this meteorite - you cant get everything in this meteorite showing in a 20 gram sample so what do you expect from a classification taken from one thin section) I have agreed to send michael zolonsky at JSC a more representative section of NWA869 than what Rubin was given. Unfortunately Mr Zolonsky must be away or something as I have been unable to contact him for well over a month now (Jeff, do you know when he will be back?). As you all know getting classifications is very slow at the best of times (I am 3 years or more now waiting on NWA300 and NWA304 for example from
Re: [meteorite-list] Political Ramblings and Collection Habits
What does Bush have to do with meteorites? Americans have come a long way since their charming Ambassador Ben Franklin pinched the French ladies derrières in Paris and flew kites in the rain. Just look at Mike and Ryan! John, Bernd and now I have already been sent to stand in the corner for our parts in the fray. Ryan hit Mike first, John, and Mike couldn't wait for a chance to go out and play with Ryan (and both insist to write 100 e-mails each I will not spam the list, I will not...), then John sided with Mike, and some of us other overly vocal folks all carelessly engage each other pathetically again and again like girls getting our hair pulled when Bernd is or isn't looking. Meanwhile, George is saying to Mike, Bluuuhlulululu p ppttpptt. With his fingers in his ears and thumb on nose saying Mike Irons and Stones will break my bones but posts will never harm me And the rest of the world is thinking, jajajaja nalevo, napravo, estos ogorkies, bambinos, blimy mierd, mate, Actung! pass me a cerveja and salted goobers. Poor Richard's Almanac: A meteorite saved is a meteorite earned. == Bernhard escribe: Well, it certainly depends on WHEN you started collecting. I agree that the expensive pieces are dirt-cheap even today and were expensive some time ago, but the OC material has been cheaper last year. The bargains with pieces below $ 100 have certainly decreased. But if you have a lot to spend, you can get larger pieces very cheap. But I am still convinced that the gold rush is coming to an end... Bernhard At 17:21 26.11.2004, you wrote: political ramblings are no place for this list. .. because this will automatically split this haunted place into at least two opposing factions mirroring the election results in the USA. no one should be in this just for profit or investment, buy something you love ... I have never considered my meteorite collection a financial investment. The opposite is true, ... my meteorite collection absorbs a lot of money. Its absolute (objective?) value would presently amount to several 10,000 dollars but if I ever intended to sell it, I would probably get no more than 1/3 this sum or even less (rule of thumb for stamps when I was a serious and passionate collector). Collectibles lose their inherent charm as soon as we see the money first like Uncle Scrooge does :-) That was also the case when I started selling some of my rarer stamps many years ago. As soon as I saw in them a potential source of making money, the joy, the charm these little works of art imparted was gone for good. Best regards, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Seismic Shaking Erased Small Impact Craters On Asteroid Eros
SEISMIC SHAKING ERASED SMALL IMPACT CRATERS ON ASTEROID EROS From Lori Stiles, UA News Services, 520-621-1877 November 26, 2004 University of Arizona scientists have discovered why Eros, the largest near-Earth asteroid, has so few small craters. When the Near Earth Asteroid Rendezvous (NEAR) mission orbited Eros from February 2000 to February 2001, it revealed an asteroid covered with regolith -- a loose layer of rocks, gravel and dust -- and embedded with numerous large boulders. The spacecraft also found places where the regolith apparently had slumped, or flowed downhill, exposing fresh surface underneath. But what NEAR didn't find were the many small craters that scientists expected would pock Eros' landscape. Either the craters were being erased by something or there are fewer small asteroids than we thought, James E. Richardson Jr. of UA's planetary sciences department said. Richardson concludes from modeling studies that seismic shaking has obliterated about 90 percent of the asteroid's small impact craters, those less than 100 meters in diameter, or roughly the length of a football field. The seismic vibrations result when Eros collides with space debris. --- Contact Information James E. Richardson 520.621.6960 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Related Web site http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~jrich/ - Richardson, Regents' Professor H. Jay Melosh and Professor Richard Greenberg, all with UA's Lunar and Planetary Laboratory, report the analysis in the Nov. 26 issue of Science. Eros is only about the size of Lake Tahoe -- 20 miles (33 kilometers) long by 8 miles (13 kilometers) wide, Richardson said. So it has a very small volume and a very low gravity. When a one-to-two-meter or larger object hits Eros, the impact will set off global seismic vibrations. Our analysis shows how these vibrations easily destabilize regolith overlaying the surface. A rock-and-dust layer creeps, rather than crashes, down shaking slopes because of Eros' weak gravity. The regolith not only slides down horizontally, but also is launched ballistically from the surface and 'hops' downslope. Very slowly, over time, impact craters fill up and disappear, Richardson said. If Eros were still in the main asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, a 200-meter crater would fill in about 30 million years. Because Eros is now outside the asteroid belt, that process takes a thousand times longer, he added. Richardson's research results match the NEAR spacecraft evidence. Instead of the expected 400 craters as small as 20 meters (about 70 feet) per square kilometer (three-fifths mile) on Eros' surface, there are on average only about 40 such craters. The modeling analysis also validates what scientists suspect of Eros' internal structure. The NEAR mission showed Eros to most likely be a fractured monolith, a body that used to be one competent piece of material, Richardson said. But Eros has been fractured throughout by large impacts and is held together primarily by gravity. The evidence is seen in a series of grooves and ridges that run across the asteroid's surface both globally and regionally. Large impacts fracture Eros to its core, but many smaller impacts fracture only the upper surface. This gradient of big fractures deep inside and numerous small fractures near the surface is analogous to fractures in the upper lunar crust, Richardson said. And we understand the lunar crust -- we've been there. We've put seismometers on the moon. We understand how seismic energy propagates through this kind of structure. The UA scientists' analysis of how impact-induced seismic shaking has modified Eros' surface has a couple of other important implications. If we eventually do send spacecraft to mine resources among the near-Earth asteroids or to deflect an asteroid from a potential collision with the Earth, knowing internal asteroid structure will help address some of the strategies we'll need to use. In the nearer future, sample return missions will encounter successively less porous, more cohesive regolith as they dig farther down into asteroids like Eros, which has been compacted by seismic shaking, Richardson noted. And it also tells us about the small asteroid environment that we'll encounter when we do send a spacecraft out into the main asteroid belt, where Eros spent most of its lifetime. We know the small asteroids -- those between the size of a beachball and a football stadium -- are out there. It's just that their 'signature' on asteroids such as Eros is being erased, Richardson said. This finding is important because the cratering record on large asteroids provides direct evidence for the size and population of small main-belt asteroids. Earth-based telescopic surveys have catalogued few main-belt asteroids that small. So scientists have to base population estimates for these objects primarily on visible cratering records and asteroid
Re: [meteorite-list] Extended Thanksgiving
Dean, Impress us all, Instead of selling anything for a buck including Black Sea Pearls, Ming Dynasty Artifacts, Stuffed Animals, Blankets, Snake Oil and Elixirs why don't you specialize in meteorites? Learn everything you can about them, possibly start a collection and let us know about the wonders you might have discovered along the way instead of protecting your unofficial sacred cow (NWA 869). We have literally seen tons of this material and donated almost every piece that crossed our collection so we know the difference. Adam - Original Message - From: dean bessey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Extended Thanksgiving I guess that this means that I have Won and that now everybody including the Hupes realizes that NWA904 is paired with NWA869. If there is anything that I have learned from five years of spats on this list is that when somebody realizes that the gig is up and that they are wrong then they stop trying to make arguements (Intelligent, half baked or otherwise) and regress like a baby and just start talking fertilizer and horse shit... --- Greg Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Dean, I want to personally thank you for extending Thanksgiving for us. Thanks for keeping the dead horse alive, we just can't get enough of it. If you keep kicking it long enough you will have produced so much fertilizer that you will have a heck of a bumper crop next spring. Thanks again Dean, where would we be without fruits and vegetables! Greg - Original Message - From: dean bessey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 787, 869, 904 Yes, I wouldent argue with Dr Rubin. And Rubin got a section of NWA869 and called it a L4 and then from the EXACT SAME ROCK got another section and called it an L5. Two parts of the VERY SAME ROCK that Rubin got pieces of were of a different classification. That should tell you the rock is not consistant. Then you go and sell Stan a piece of your very own NWA904 that you somehow cant figure out is mothing more than another piece of NWA869. The piece that you sold stan is so different from your photos of the other parts of the NWA904 stone (The nice part in the photo in your marketing with the black spots) that when you saw stan resell it as NWA904 (Legitamately since he got this piece of NWA904 from you - see archaives of stans postings over the past couple of days) you accuse him of substituting another rock (Presumably NWA869) and improperly selling it as NWA904. You cant even recogonize your very own NWA904 stone and you yourself is calling your own NWA904 stone 869 in your attack on stan for selling it as NWA904 saying that he paired the stone himself (When as per his email yesterday he bought this NWA904 directly from you). So no, I am not disputing what Alan Rubin is saying. I am totally agreeing with Rubin (And in your accusing attack on stan agreeing with you also) that NWA904 is just another piece of the very beautiful and highly brecciated NWA869. Sincerely DEAN --- Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dean, I will take the word of Dr. Rubin, a skilled scientists with a Ph.D. and decades of experience over somebody who does not even collect meteorites and is only in it for the money. Happy Holiday, Adam - Original Message - From: dean bessey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 787, 869, 904 You know, you can wish all you want that you dont have a lot of NWA869 pairings (And I am using NWA869 because thats my number and its the most commonly accepted name for this HUGE fall - Even the moroccans refer to it as NWA869) but like the boggy creek martian rainforest, wishing wont make it happen. And saying that it has to be definatively paired by some scientist is taking advantage of the well known fact that scientists are unable to pair thousands of meteorites scientifically. If you buy 100 kilos of NWA869 (Which, as you all know, I have done once or twice) and if there are 2 or 3 kilos of other stuff mixed in they show up like a sore thumb. This meteorite is very easy to recogonize. Take a look at this photo: http://www.meteoriteshop.com/ebay/nwa869samples.jpg The Hupes do a very good job at polishing their specimens (Way better than I do) so the shine is not on my photos like on theirs but if my scan doesnt convince you that NWA869 is very brecciated then nothing well. Look at all the inclusions. Look at the big
Re: [meteorite-list] Political Ramblings and Collection Habits
Does anyone ever get through one of these rambling emails without falling asleep? K. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bernhard Rendelius Rems [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Political Ramblings and Collection Habits What does Bush have to do with meteorites? Americans have come a long way since their charming Ambassador Ben Franklin pinched the French ladies derrières in Paris and flew kites in the rain. Just look at Mike and Ryan! John, Bernd and now I have already been sent to stand in the corner for our parts in the fray. Ryan hit Mike first, John, and Mike couldn't wait for a chance to go out and play with Ryan (and both insist to write 100 e-mails each I will not spam the list, I will not...), then John sided with Mike, and some of us other overly vocal folks all carelessly engage each other pathetically again and again like girls getting our hair pulled when Bernd is or isn't looking. Meanwhile, George is saying to Mike, Bluuuhlulululu p ppttpptt. With his fingers in his ears and thumb on nose saying Mike Irons and Stones will break my bones but posts will never harm me And the rest of the world is thinking, jajajaja nalevo, napravo, estos ogorkies, bambinos, blimy mierd, mate, Actung! pass me a cerveja and salted goobers. Poor Richard's Almanac: A meteorite saved is a meteorite earned. _ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] RE: Nice Dronino?
I must have the weirdest environment ever to try to preserve meteorites in... My 10 g piece of Chinga, which one of the other List members described as practically natural stainless steel, has a nice little swathe of rust across its face. I will need to clean and treat better than half of my cut and polished iron specimens, if I wish to prevent rusting; even the usually remarkably stable Sikhote-Alins in my collection are spalling a bit. OTOH, a chip of Dronino which I bought from one of the Russian dealers earlier this year in Tucson has shown no signs whatsoever of degradation. My Nantan, immortalized in verse and posts as being a rustbucket, has shown no inclination to rust beyond its initial surface scale. No accounting! Tracy Latimer __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Suggestion
Do you people (dealers, mostly, but by no means exclusively) have ANY idea of how much the rest of us HATE the insidious, ongoing, petty prodding, poking, mudslinging CRAPOLLA with which you endlessly POLLUTE this list? You have been asked nicely, gently, politely, diplomatically, and REPEATEDLY to stop! You all say, Oh, we're really good friends... and, We'll all sit down together in Tucson and have a drink! Ya? Well, the rest of us don't give a DAMN that you will have a drink together in Tucson! We have to live with your pollution the rest of the year and WE DON'T LIKE IT! People leave the list! People get turned off to the whole meteorite scene! You nit wits call yourself dealers, but continually engage in behavior that DRIVES COLLECTORS AWAY - not just from the list, but from collecting! Brilliant! Stinking Brilliant! Don't feed the ducks, Don't feed the ducks - well, the VAST MAJORITY of this list has NOT been feeding the ducks but you quackers just keep at it and at it and at it! I have a suggestion: All of us that have NOT been quacking and quacking and quacking - Every time someone gets nasty at someone else on this list, EVERYONE send him a PERSONAL - OFF LIST email, saying, Please post your personal resentment e-mails OFF list directly to the individual involved. I really don't want to be involved and you are violating list rules. (or, something to that effect). NOT on the list - PERSONALLY, and off list. I MEAN EVERYONE - let these quackers get 500 emails every time they indulge in petty bickering on the list - KEEP IT UP. To hell with, I'm going to leave the list because I just can't stand this constant negativity crap! THIS IS OUR LIST! Let's take it back. This is a way to do it. Do you think if we ALL emailed individually EVERY TIME each one did this they would not stop? Of course they would! It will take us all - 500 emails directly to the individual EVERY TIME! That will definitely give them pause. LET'S DO IT! Sick of it in San Diego, Michael __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: LaCriolla + State Of Met. Market
As far as I'm concerned, the main purpose of political arguments on this list is to discuss export policies et. al. of meteorites. Other than that, I don't care who you supported in the last election. Tracy Latimer __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Suggestion
Dear Mike and list members, Very well said Mike. I did get drawn into it this time out of pure frustration and the same I AM TIRED OF ALL THE 'FERTILIZER' also. I should have sent a post like yours. For my part in attempting to throw cold water on it, I apologize to everyone. Having been humbled, Greg - Original Message - From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 12:57 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Suggestion Do you people (dealers, mostly, but by no means exclusively) have ANY idea of how much the rest of us HATE the insidious, ongoing, petty prodding, poking, mudslinging CRAPOLLA with which you endlessly POLLUTE this list? You have been asked nicely, gently, politely, diplomatically, and REPEATEDLY to stop! You all say, Oh, we're really good friends... and, We'll all sit down together in Tucson and have a drink! Ya? Well, the rest of us don't give a DAMN that you will have a drink together in Tucson! We have to live with your pollution the rest of the year and WE DON'T LIKE IT! People leave the list! People get turned off to the whole meteorite scene! You nit wits call yourself dealers, but continually engage in behavior that DRIVES COLLECTORS AWAY - not just from the list, but from collecting! Brilliant! Stinking Brilliant! Don't feed the ducks, Don't feed the ducks - well, the VAST MAJORITY of this list has NOT been feeding the ducks but you quackers just keep at it and at it and at it! I have a suggestion: All of us that have NOT been quacking and quacking and quacking - Every time someone gets nasty at someone else on this list, EVERYONE send him a PERSONAL - OFF LIST email, saying, Please post your personal resentment e-mails OFF list directly to the individual involved. I really don't want to be involved and you are violating list rules. (or, something to that effect). NOT on the list - PERSONALLY, and off list. I MEAN EVERYONE - let these quackers get 500 emails every time they indulge in petty bickering on the list - KEEP IT UP. To hell with, I'm going to leave the list because I just can't stand this constant negativity crap! THIS IS OUR LIST! Let's take it back. This is a way to do it. Do you think if we ALL emailed individually EVERY TIME each one did this they would not stop? Of course they would! It will take us all - 500 emails directly to the individual EVERY TIME! That will definitely give them pause. LET'S DO IT! Sick of it in San Diego, Michael __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] they way it should be
Hello list.I am a big hupe' fan.I buy from both brothers.I do not have any problem with them.To me THEY are what this list is all about.They spend thier own money to get results that we collecters want to see.I really look forward to seeing them again in tucson.I have been collecting for 5.5 years, and outside of haag and farmer, they continue to bring a total professioalism to this great hobby.And as far as I am concerned, there is nothing anyone can say bad about them that will affect me at all.What happens to other people, concerning them is thier business.I will continue to support them.And for the people who have never met them,come to tucson, and find out for yourself.Or as I said before,CRAWL BACK INTO THE WOODWORK. STEVE ARNOLD, CHICAGO = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Adam Hupe
Adam, Aren't you the one that is involved in 99% of the arguments here on the list? Either on the offensive or defensive. Seems like everytime there is a argument , you are involved in some way That must say something shouldn't it? Maybe, you are trying to pick up where Matteo left off. Do you think none of us are noticing this? Quit the bull Adam .. sell your meteorites and shut the hell up. BE - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Extended Thanksgiving Dean, Impress us all, Instead of selling anything for a buck including Black Sea Pearls, Ming Dynasty Artifacts, Stuffed Animals, Blankets, Snake Oil and Elixirs why don't you specialize in meteorites? Learn everything you can about them, possibly start a collection and let us know about the wonders you might have discovered along the way instead of protecting your unofficial sacred cow (NWA 869). We have literally seen tons of this material and donated almost every piece that crossed our collection so we know the difference. Adam - Original Message - From: dean bessey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Extended Thanksgiving I guess that this means that I have Won and that now everybody including the Hupes realizes that NWA904 is paired with NWA869. If there is anything that I have learned from five years of spats on this list is that when somebody realizes that the gig is up and that they are wrong then they stop trying to make arguements (Intelligent, half baked or otherwise) and regress like a baby and just start talking fertilizer and horse shit... --- Greg Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Dean, I want to personally thank you for extending Thanksgiving for us. Thanks for keeping the dead horse alive, we just can't get enough of it. If you keep kicking it long enough you will have produced so much fertilizer that you will have a heck of a bumper crop next spring. Thanks again Dean, where would we be without fruits and vegetables! Greg - Original Message - From: dean bessey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 787, 869, 904 Yes, I wouldent argue with Dr Rubin. And Rubin got a section of NWA869 and called it a L4 and then from the EXACT SAME ROCK got another section and called it an L5. Two parts of the VERY SAME ROCK that Rubin got pieces of were of a different classification. That should tell you the rock is not consistant. Then you go and sell Stan a piece of your very own NWA904 that you somehow cant figure out is mothing more than another piece of NWA869. The piece that you sold stan is so different from your photos of the other parts of the NWA904 stone (The nice part in the photo in your marketing with the black spots) that when you saw stan resell it as NWA904 (Legitamately since he got this piece of NWA904 from you - see archaives of stans postings over the past couple of days) you accuse him of substituting another rock (Presumably NWA869) and improperly selling it as NWA904. You cant even recogonize your very own NWA904 stone and you yourself is calling your own NWA904 stone 869 in your attack on stan for selling it as NWA904 saying that he paired the stone himself (When as per his email yesterday he bought this NWA904 directly from you). So no, I am not disputing what Alan Rubin is saying. I am totally agreeing with Rubin (And in your accusing attack on stan agreeing with you also) that NWA904 is just another piece of the very beautiful and highly brecciated NWA869. Sincerely DEAN --- Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dean, I will take the word of Dr. Rubin, a skilled scientists with a Ph.D. and decades of experience over somebody who does not even collect meteorites and is only in it for the money. Happy Holiday, Adam - Original Message - From: dean bessey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 787, 869, 904 You know, you can wish all you want that you dont have a lot of NWA869 pairings (And I am using NWA869 because thats my number and its the most commonly accepted name for this HUGE fall - Even the moroccans refer to it as NWA869) but like the boggy creek martian rainforest, wishing wont make it happen. And saying that it has to be definatively paired by some scientist is taking advantage of the well
Re: [meteorite-list] they way it should be
Steve, Dont you ever tire of kissing their ass?? Let Adam publickly attack your demeanor and maybe your tune will change. Are you really that oblivious to all of his tirades? Your Friend Bob Evans - Original Message - From: Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 1:11 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] they way it should be Hello list.I am a big hupe' fan.I buy from both brothers.I do not have any problem with them.To me THEY are what this list is all about.They spend thier own money to get results that we collecters want to see.I really look forward to seeing them again in tucson.I have been collecting for 5.5 years, and outside of haag and farmer, they continue to bring a total professioalism to this great hobby.And as far as I am concerned, there is nothing anyone can say bad about them that will affect me at all.What happens to other people, concerning them is thier business.I will continue to support them.And for the people who have never met them,come to tucson, and find out for yourself.Or as I said before,CRAWL BACK INTO THE WOODWORK. STEVE ARNOLD, CHICAGO = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] they way it should be
Dear Steve all, You are entirely right. Nearly every single person - whether they have been quacking lately or not, is a really, truly good guy. Greg just demonstrated he is a shining example of this fact. His post was a real example of courage and honor. Nearly all of us have gotten sucked in at some time or other. NONE of this should be seen as personal - not against the PERSON - but against the behavior. When anyone begins to quack - and this certainly includes me - I really do think we should send them 500 individual, off list reminders. I am not suggesting it be done in an UGLY way - just strait foreword - Please deal with the person directly - NOT on the list. It is not about the person and it is not about the topic - it is about name calling, declaring the other person's motives, and just plain rudeness - and/or, of course, the use of profanity. It IS true - they are all friends and will share a drink in Tucson- the rest of the year, let's all support our brothers by reminding them OFF LIST when they are posting improperly. As Tiny Tim said, God bless us, everyone! Best wishes, Michael on 11/26/04 11:11 AM, Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello list.I am a big hupe' fan.I buy from both brothers.I do not have any problem with them.To me THEY are what this list is all about.They spend thier own money to get results that we collecters want to see.I really look forward to seeing them again in tucson.I have been collecting for 5.5 years, and outside of haag and farmer, they continue to bring a total professioalism to this great hobby.And as far as I am concerned, there is nothing anyone can say bad about them that will affect me at all.What happens to other people, concerning them is thier business.I will continue to support them.And for the people who have never met them,come to tucson, and find out for yourself.Or as I said before,CRAWL BACK INTO THE WOODWORK. STEVE ARNOLD, CHICAGO = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Preservation of iron meteorite
Jorn, I saw this posted by some coinshooters to clean metal. Will this work for iron? Haven't tried it. I suspect with some chem tweaks this may be the best your average collector could build affordably to treat irons. When building a electrolysis machine to clean metal, a better transformer to use is an old AT type computer power supply not a ATX power supply just cut a yellow and a black wire from one of the four wire plug strip and attach clips. Yellow is POSITIVE (+), Black is ground. In a plastic tub mix tap water, a tablespoon of salt per 8 oz of water, attach yellow lead to a stainless steel piece put in water on one side of the bucket attach black lead to the metal find, put in the water on other side of bucket. Do not let the leads touch each other, turn on the power and it will bubble give it a little time and the dirt and rust will come off find and be on the stainless metal. The power supply does not over heat and cleans faster than small power supplies __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] bengrir fall
hello all time for a change last monday a fall in bengrir , in a small town called bouchaoun, my friend that are there report to me that the people of the small town has collect the fall but was surprised by the police and some other people asking them to give back to police very stone, well yahya and ali oussou , salem are there and report that all of them are afraid to show the stone in the case they do not know our dealers. so they need a little more time to sell to us . will reprt the news here once we have something bengrir is 100 kilometre from marrakech aeroport, easy for you to come and go for hunting buy your ticket all the best aziz _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] they way it should be
Dear Michael, Steve and all, I appreciate your words and support. I did get sucked in because of the recent Hupe-Bashing mission by a few. I just got plain tired of it. In the future, I challenge anyone who wishes to bash us to do it in private and do not post to the list with 'private' email replies. There can be no mistake for this type of thing. We can take constructive criticism because in the proper form it is good and anyone can learn by it. Mud slinging, bickering or attempts at humor are not forms of this. Yes, I am guilty of this and have learned by it. That said, if anyone wants to criticize us, do it in private emails and we will be more than happy to take care of whatever grievance you may have. If not a grievance, than we also will listen to suggestions and opinions Best to all, Greg - Original Message - From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] they way it should be Dear Steve all, You are entirely right. Nearly every single person - whether they have been quacking lately or not, is a really, truly good guy. Greg just demonstrated he is a shining example of this fact. His post was a real example of courage and honor. Nearly all of us have gotten sucked in at some time or other. NONE of this should be seen as personal - not against the PERSON - but against the behavior. When anyone begins to quack - and this certainly includes me - I really do think we should send them 500 individual, off list reminders. I am not suggesting it be done in an UGLY way - just strait foreword - Please deal with the person directly - NOT on the list. It is not about the person and it is not about the topic - it is about name calling, declaring the other person's motives, and just plain rudeness - and/or, of course, the use of profanity. It IS true - they are all friends and will share a drink in Tucson- the rest of the year, let's all support our brothers by reminding them OFF LIST when they are posting improperly. As Tiny Tim said, God bless us, everyone! Best wishes, Michael on 11/26/04 11:11 AM, Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello list.I am a big hupe' fan.I buy from both brothers.I do not have any problem with them.To me THEY are what this list is all about.They spend thier own money to get results that we collecters want to see.I really look forward to seeing them again in tucson.I have been collecting for 5.5 years, and outside of haag and farmer, they continue to bring a total professioalism to this great hobby.And as far as I am concerned, there is nothing anyone can say bad about them that will affect me at all.What happens to other people, concerning them is thier business.I will continue to support them.And for the people who have never met them,come to tucson, and find out for yourself.Or as I said before,CRAWL BACK INTO THE WOODWORK. STEVE ARNOLD, CHICAGO = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] bengrir fall segond report
hi all the first 250 gr was recovred by our friends in bengrir they sad it looks like bensour great a fall of only days. photo will be available in two days. all the best aziz _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: LaCriolla + State Of Met. Market
Hmm.. So now I started an argument? I thought I had just made a simple comparison. (??) Although, I must apologize for using that particular comparison on the list. I do realize that some of you are ultra-sensitive when it comes to politics, which is a bit ridiculous. Everyone should realize that most people have they're own everlasting opinions about certain things, so one should not even bother debating they're side. If everyone thought the same we wouldn't have a presidential election. Right? Anyway, thank you to all who have replied, but I surely wasn't expecting to see a political battle in my mailbox this afternoon. Kind of sad to see our freedom take a wrong twist.. again. Best Wishes, Ryan -Original Message- From: Bernhard \Rendelius\ Rems [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Nov 26, 2004 10:07 AM To: almitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re: LaCriolla + State Of Met. Market I agree. But don't forget who started this political argument... Bernhard At 15:52 26.11.2004, you wrote: Dear Michael and all, Michael, political ramblings are no place for this list. Please refrain from doing so any more. If we can talk about politics then why not religion, classic cars, cigars, coin collecting or what have you? A big part of the market is and has been hurt by useless fighting, all on this un- moderated list. Let's talk meteorites and follow Art's rules. --AL Mitterling __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] narcisse
- I cry for Narcisse, but I had never realized that Narcisse was beautiful. I cry for Narcisse because, each time that he was inclined towards my banks, I could see, at the bottom of his eyes, the reflection of my own beauty. More Oscar Wilde quotes: In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. ---Oscar Wilde It is only the intellectually lost who ever argue. ---Oscar Wilde The well-bred contradict other people. The wise contradict themselves. ---Oscar Wilde, Phrases and Philosophies for the use of the Young If one tells the truth, one is sure, sooner or later, to be found out. ---Oscar Wilde, Phrases and Philosophies for the use of the Young __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] coating iron meteorites
Is it wise to coat iron meteorites with wax, etc.? Some say it's OK and others say to *never* coat a meteorite. Does anyone have any insight into this? JG __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: LaCriolla + State Of Met. Market
As I stated before, I don't intend to drag this battle any further, but don't you think that 9/11 had anything at all to do with the fall of the economy??? You can't just pile all of the blame on Bush. The same thing would have happened had any other president been in office at the time. Have we forgotten that 9/11 was one of the worst days in U.S. history? Nothing positive was an end-result of that day's events, including the depression of the U.S. economy. I don't understand, were we expecting it to make a sudden spike towards the sky, or what? Ryan -Original Message- From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Nov 26, 2004 4:50 PM To: RYAN PAWELSKI [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re: LaCriolla + State Of Met. Market Ryan, the problem was that your comparison was about as false as anything i have ever seen. USD$$$ was at all time high when Bush took office, now at record low around the world, starting to look like pesos. Do you wonder why it costs more to buy in e\ urope ro morocco now? I used to get 13 dirhams for one dollar, now i get 8! You do the math on exchanging 30,000$ like i usualy do i Morocco, and you will see that I now lose alost $10,000 in the Bush economy. Il take clinton back any day of the week. Mike Farmer RYAN PAWELSKI [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmm.. So now I started an argument? I thought I had just made a simple comparison. (??) Although, I must apologize for using that particular comparison on the list. I do realize that some of you are ultra-sensitive when it comes to politics, which is a bit ridiculous. Everyone should realize that most people have they're own everlasting opinions about certain things, so one should not even bother debating they're side. If everyone thought the same we wouldn't have a presidential election. Right? Anyway, thank you to all who have replied, but I surely wasn't expecting to see a political battle in my mailbox this afternoon. Kind of sad to see our freedom take a wrong twist.. again. Best Wishes, Ryan -Original Message- From: Bernhard \Rendelius\ Rems Sent: Nov 26, 2004 10:07 AM To: almitt Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re: LaCriolla + State Of Met. Market I agree. But don't forget who started this political argument... Bernhard At 15:52 26.11.2004, you wrote: Dear Michael and all, Michael, political ramblings are no place for this list. Please refrain from doing so any more. If we can talk about politics then why not religion, classic cars, cigars, coin collecting or what have you? A big part of the market is and has been hurt by useless fighting, all on this un- moderated list. Let's talk meteorites and follow Art's rules. --AL Mitterling __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] A versus B
As I stated before, ... the problem was ... The fundamental problem here is that both parties are right. This all depends on one's perspectives, political points of view, personal / individual reasoning, family / social background, beliefs, past / present experiences / personal economical situation, and so much more. And this is why Captain Blood proposed and advised we keep such polarizing controversies off this list. Ever so often we do not even agree on meteorites, so it is evident that we will never agree on other matters (political or non-political). Good night everybody, it is late here as usual :-) Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] coating iron meteorites
Is it wise to coat iron meteorites with wax, etc.? Some say it's OK and others say to *never* coat a meteorite. Does anyone have any insight into this? I have only bad experiences. Also if meteorite is stable this will start blowing some day. Its the same as puting meteorites to plastic bags. I have etched dronino from my collection without oil into membrane box for experiment when it will start rusting. And from 1 month nothing, no any one piece of rust. So In my opinion the best is to oil meteorites, heat them, oil again and leave them on open air and change oil from time to time (thin layer). Ofcourse dont try this on Florida :) -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of: Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Guide to North American Meteorites
Hello List, Does anyone have current contact information for Bill Peck, the creator of the map, Guide to North American Meteorites? I've been told he has moved from Steamboat Springs, Colorado. Anyone with info, please contact me off list. And, if you know of anyone with some of his maps for sale, please let me know. Best, John Gwilliam __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to North American Meteorites
For whatever it's worth: http://www.astronomicalleague.com/MeteorMap.htm JKGwilliam wrote: Hello List, Does anyone have current contact information for Bill Peck, the creator of the map, Guide to North American Meteorites? I've been told he has moved from Steamboat Springs, Colorado. Anyone with info, please contact me off list. And, if you know of anyone with some of his maps for sale, please let me know. Best, John Gwilliam __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] SaharaMet Expedition on meteorite impact craters
Apprentice Terrorist: Master, how do I know when I have terrorized someone? Master Terrorist: When they respond to your actions in any way my son, in ANY way. -CharlyV -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dean bessey Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 12:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] SaharaMet Expedition on meteorite impact craters This is from the pellison guys who says terrorists are being supported by you meteorite buyers. In court in France my own name was used in French court along with my postings to this list as evidence that I stated terrorists were being supported by our meteorite buys. Now I ask every member of this list? Where in the archaives do I provide evidence that Al Quada is supported by our buys? This is pure fabrication and efforts to drive everybody else out of the desert. I havent seen the court document but I suspect they have taken some of the moronic fights about exporting meteorites illegally from morocco that me, farmer, the hupes and others have sadly gotten involved in in our efforts to claim that My meteorites are better than your meteorites (Yes, I am as guilty as anybody in this My meteorites are better than your meteorites crap even though it is not possible to illegally export meteorites from morocco because there is no law in morocco saying that you cant do it - go to your local moroccan embassy if you want confirmation of what I am saying here). My suspicion is that they took things out of context and misquoted what was said taking things out of context. So lets see, we have a dealer who is known to have deliberately misquoted other people and lied about what was said in postings. We know that the pelissons are people with no scruples and have no hessitation about lying. If they willingly lie in court imagine what they would tell meteorite collectors. Tell me, is this the type of person that you would buy a meteorite from? They lied at least twice. How do you know that they are not lying when they tell you that they never bought a NWA in morocco from aid mohammad and instead of selling it for 20 cents a gram like I would do if I bought a NWA from aid mohammad, they offer it to you at $2 a gram as their own find? They lied once in a very orchastrated court fraud and made up a story that meteorite funds are supporting terrorism. Does known fakers really need three strikes to be out? If you pay more than 15 cents a gram for a pellisson meteorite you are buying something from people with no more trustworthyness than dealing with a lot of the moroccans. The pellisons meteorites have no more known about them than if you buy my 20 cent NWAs. You dont know where they are from. And yes, I really am pissed off because my name was used in french court in a fabricated court case. Sincerely DEAN --- SaharaMet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A new page on our desert trips: - Mauritanian Sahara expedition - Temimichat and Tenoumer impact craters - panoramic views of the craters (4000x650 pixels) - impactites and shocked granitic rocks - story of the journey Go to: http://www.saharamet.com/expedition/2003/crater.html Richard Roland Pelisson SaharaMet Sahara expeditions and great meteorite discoveries http://www.saharamet.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Upcoming Tucson Auctions?
I know that it might be a little too early to talk about them, but are all of the different auctions still being planned, and possibly when will the listings start to appear? Just something that I was thinking about on this cold, rainy night. Dave __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mars Express Images: Crater Hale in Argyre basin
http://www.esa.int/export/SPECIALS/Mars_Express/SEM8AVWJD1E_0.html Crater Hale in Argyre basin European Space Agency Mars Express 24 November 2004 These images, taken by the High Resolution Stereo Camera (HRSC) on board ESA's Mars Express spacecraft, show Crater Hale in the Argyre basin of the southern hemisphere of Mars. Map showing Crater Hale in context The images show an area close to the northern rim of the Argyre basin, located at latitude 36° South and longitude 324° East. The image was taken with a ground resolution of about 40 metres per pixel during Mars Express orbit 533 in June 2004. Slight periodic colour and brightness variations in parts of the image indicate atmospheric waves in clouds. Crater Hale in perspective, looking west Crater Hale in perspective, looking north-west Close-up view of walls of Crater Hale Crater Hale, with its terraced walls, central peak and a part of the inner ring is visible in the upper (eastern) part of the image. The region has been eroded heavily by deposits caused by this impact, and subsequent processes. On the southern rim of Hale, parts of the crater wall have moved downslope towards the crater's centre (see black and white detailed image left). At the bottom (western) part of the picture, as seen below in the other detailed image with high resolution, the surface shows a network of fluvial channels which may have been caused by running water. Close-up view of surface near Crater Hale Image resolution has been decreased for use on the internet. The colour images were processed using the HRSC nadir (vertical view) and three colour channels. The perspective views were calculated from the digital terrain model derived from the stereo channels. 3D image of Crater Hale The 3D anaglyph image was created from the nadir channel and one of the stereo channels. Stereoscopic glasses are needed to view the 3D image. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Cash-Strapped Russia Aims For Unmanned Phobos Landing
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/mars-general-04x.html Cash-Strapped Russia Aims For Unmanned Mars Moon Landing AFP November 25, 2004 Udaipur, India (AFP) - Russia's space program is unlikely to launch a planetary mission before 2009 because of cash shortages, a top scientist said Thursday. The unmanned mission will aim to land on Phobos, a moon orbiting Mars, and a mission to the Earth's Moon is unlikely in the near future, said Eric Galimov, planetologist and director of the V.I. Vernandsky Institute of Geochemistry and Analytical Chemistry at the Russian Academy of Sciences. We were thinking of a moon mission, named Lunar Globe Programme, way back in 1997, Galimov told AFP on the sidelines of a seminar on lunar exploration in this north Indian city. But the government told us to send only one mission. We decided to select Phobos for 2005, but now it is delayed and 2009 is a distinct possibility. Galimov said a mission to the Earth's moon is unlikely any time soon. Of course, the direct reason is lack of funds and the indirect reason is lack of sufficient attention to the development of science in our country. Russia was the first nation to complete a moon orbit in 1959. But since 1996 it has not launched a single planetary mission, compared with 21 by the United States and five by the European Space Agency. The country went through a difficult period of political, social and economic transition. The selection of priorities is debatable but science was not the first priority, Galimov said. As far as scientists are concerned we still have a problem of good salary. This is why we have difficulty in attracting the young generation. The support from the government is ridiculously low, he said. Galimov said Russia in the near future could offer its space expertise to help other nations such as India, which is considering a lunar probe. Russia has the experience and through cooperation one can cut costs and reduce time, he said. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Upcoming Tucson Auctions?
Hi Dave, My auction is Saturday, Feb. 5th at the same location as 2004. I hope to have my web page up by Dec. 1 with the majority of specimens being offered listed with photograph. People sending me an excellent photo and full description before the end of November have the 1% fee for unmet minimum bids waived. Hope to see ya there, Michael on 11/26/04 8:23 PM, Dave Schultz at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know that it might be a little too early to talk about them, but are all of the different auctions still being planned, and possibly when will the listings start to appear? Just something that I was thinking about on this cold, rainy night. Dave __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ad - Site Update
Hello All, Just a quick plug, I am currently selling the following micros on my website: Allende - CV3.2 NWA 869 - ? (L5) Campos Sales - L5 NWA 1792 - H5 DaG 476 - SHE (adding Tonight) NWA 1929 - Howardite Djoumine - H5-6 NWA 1930 - LL3 Gaines County Park - H5NWA 3111 - LL3 Gold Basin - H5 NWA 3113 - H3 Jilin - H5 NWA 3118 - CV3 (Legitimate) Juancheng - H5 NWA 3119 - LL4 NWA 267 - H4 (adding Tonight) Park Forest - L5 NWA 660 - H5 I'm trying to move some of these items prior to the Tucson Show, so if any of this interests you they're on my site waiting for you! Thanks for enduring this! CJ Lebel IMCA# 3432 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.cjsmeteorites.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rocks Of All Ages Tell Story
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=5ObjectID=6500454 Rocks of all ages tell story New Zealand Herald November 27, 2004 A few hundred metres off the coast of Northland stand tiny islets that may tell the story of the biggest catastrophe in the history of life on Earth. Arrow Rocks, just off Tauranga Bay about 40km north of the Bay of Islands, are so small that you can clamber round the main rock in about 10 minutes. The other rock is even smaller, but more treacherous, rising from the waves like a sharp arrow head - or, as the Maori saw it, a bird's beak. They named the islet Oruatemanu, two birds or perhaps the bird's home. You can see at once why these rocks have drawn geologists from several Japanese universities this week for their eighth field trip in as many years. In the eroded cliff faces and caves, layer upon layer of multicoloured rocks have been twisted into rollercoaster patterns by years of folding and deformation. These are not just any old rocks. This is one of a handful of places on the globe where you can see rocks that were laid down just before, during and immediately after something awful that happened 251 million years ago. Almost instantaneously, geologically speaking, 90 per cent of the living species that existed at that time were wiped out - a far worse disaster even than the meteorite that hit Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula 65 million years ago and destroyed about half the species of that time, including the dinosaurs. At the end of what geologists call the Permian era, named after the Russian city of Perm where 250 million-year-old rocks were first found, the dinosaurs had not yet evolved. Only about 120 million years before, the first amphibians had ventured out of the protection of the sea on to a raw land. By Permian times a whole zoo of land animals had evolved - creatures called synapsids, or mammal-like reptiles including huge plant-eaters the size of rhinos, and sabre-toothed meat-eaters that jumped on the backs of the plant-eaters and ripped their skins with their teeth. The land was covered in mosses and ferns, with a few early trees around the margins of lakes and rivers. Spiders, beetles and a wide variety of insects had evolved in the undergrowth. The sea teemed with tiny plankton, snails, seafloor plants and fish. Then suddenly, 251 million years ago, the fossil record preserved at places such as Arrow Rocks shows that most of these life forms disappeared. Plants died and were replaced by fungus. Of 74 species of amphibians and reptiles, only two survived. Auckland University geologist Bernhard Sporli, who is working with the Japanese on Arrow Rocks, says it was a terrible time. You had general wildfires, dust that went into the atmosphere. The effects were not measured in months but in years. It could have been dark for a whole year. With no sunlight, photosynthesis stopped and plants died. Eventually the animals that fed on them followed. But the causes are a mystery. We just don't know, says Dr Chris Hollis of the Institute of Geological and Nuclear Sciences, who was at Tauranga Bay this week. Arrow Rocks may help to find the answer because they are a rare place that was deep under the sea 251 million years ago, and has been lifted up through massive folding to reveal the clear layers marking the remains of soil, plants and animals that were washed down rivers into the sea. The Japanese-New Zealand team has not yet found the smoking gun - the precise layer where life died, which may be a layer of charcoal. But they have found a sharp change in fossil plankton between the layers above and below the dead layer, confirming that life changed dramatically in New Zealand as well as in Russia and other parts of the world. Scientific detectives have fingered two prime suspects for the cause of the crisis, and they may both be guilty. First, a meteorite. It is only 13 years since a young Canadian graduate student found the 195km-wide crater on the Yucatan Peninsula left by a meteorite 65 million years ago, but that impact is now widely accepted as the blow that finally killed the dinosaurs. It has been natural for scientists to look for a similar cause of the much bigger end-Permian event. A team led by Assistant Professor Luann Becker at the University of California has found a series of clues. In 2001, she found helium and argon gases trapped inside complex carbon molecules in sediments laid down at the end of the Permian in China and Japan. Analysis showed that the gases were chemically the same as helium and argon from meteorites. Last year she reported finding meteorite fragments in another end-Permian outcrop in Antarctica. In July this year she said she had found the meteorite crater itself, with telltale glassy rocks, in an underwater structure called the Bedout High, originally identified by oil drillers off the northwest coast of Australia. But each of her findings has been roundly attacked by other scientists. American, British
