Re: [meteorite-list] Water in Meteorites
Cool! - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water in Meteorites Dear List, Scientists reported fluid trains in the olivine of NWA 969 which I had a chance to see under a very high powered microscope. They looked like bubbles that you would see tailing a scuba diver underwater arranged in groups or fluid trains as reported to the NomCom during classification. I do not know if these contain water or some liquefied gas under high pressure hence the question mark in our auctions. What is needed is a freezing stage on a microscope to see what temperature they solidify. I was told, it is not that uncommon to find these fluid trains in terrestrial olivine that contain water, you just need to know what to look for. Kind Regards, Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Marc Fries [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Water in Meteorites Howdy I scored a piece of that meteorite and had it made into three thin sections. I've looked at a couple of dozen likely inclusions with our snazzy new Raman imaging device and didn't find an iota of water. I don't think there's any to be found. It is known that glassy inclusions in meteorites contain a high vacuum, and it seems far more likely to me that someone came across a cracked inclusion full of cutting fluid than a recrystallized asteroidal sample that contains water. Cheers, MDF There are only two meteorites known to contain liquid water: - Monahans - Zag What about the Hupe's NWA969 LL7 Meteorite Containing Bottled Water? Thanks, Tom peregrineflier - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 1:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Water in Meteorites Tom inquired: It sure makes me wonder how they could keep space water in them if they were not picked up immediately after the fall? Because they do not contain *l i q u i d* water. The water found in carbonaceous chondrites and Martian meteorites can only be extracted by heating the meteorite samples. There are only two meteorites known to contain liquid water: - Monahans - Zag where the water was found in salt crystals inside these meteorites. see also Chris L Peterson's post to the List! Best wishes, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.3.2 - Release Date: 5/31/2005 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Marc Fries Postdoctoral Research Associate Carnegie Institution of Washington Geophysical Laboratory 5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW Washington, DC 20015 PH: 202 478 7970 FAX: 202 478 8901 - I urge you to show your support to American servicemen and servicewomen currently serving in harm's way by donating items they personally request at: http://www.anysoldier.com (This is not an endorsement by the Geophysical Laboratory or the Carnegie Institution.) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mars Global Surveyor Images: May 26 - June 1, 2005
Wow! that South polar view is awesome! - Original Message - From: Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 5:02 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Global Surveyor Images: May 26 - June 1, 2005 MARS GLOBAL SURVEYOR IMAGES May 26 - June 1, 2005 The following new images taken by the Mars Orbiter Camera (MOC) on the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft are now available: o Aram Chaos Complexity (Released 26 May 2005) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2005/05/26 o Young Impact (Released 27 May 2005) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2005/05/27 o Slope-Streaked Knob (Released 28 May 2005) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2005/05/28 o Defrosting Features (Released 29 May 2005) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2005/05/29 o East Candor Outcrops (Released 30 May 2005) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2005/05/30 o Mars at Ls 211 Degrees (Released 31 May 2005) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2005/05/31 o Channel Near Olympus (Released 01 June 2006) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2005/06/01 All of the Mars Global Surveyor images are archived here: http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/index.html Mars Global Surveyor was launched in November 1996 and has been in Mars orbit since September 1997. It began its primary mapping mission on March 8, 1999. Mars Global Surveyor is the first mission in a long-term program of Mars exploration known as the Mars Surveyor Program that is managed by JPL for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, DC. Malin Space Science Systems (MSSS) and the California Institute of Technology built the MOC using spare hardware from the Mars Observer mission. MSSS operates the camera from its facilities in San Diego, CA. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory's Mars Surveyor Operations Project operates the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft with its industrial partner, Lockheed Martin Astronautics, from facilities in Pasadena, CA and Denver, CO. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list]What flew up Neil Armstrong's butt?
Just wait Mike till you become famous. Then you'll understand!! Jerry - Original Message - From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list]What flew up Neil Armstrong's butt? on 6/1/05 12:29 PM, Darren Garrison at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What flew up Neil Armstrong's butt? A wild hair? -- You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. -Herb Cohen -- If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: SKYSCAPES, OR SKY ART
Beautiful! - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 2:04 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: SKYSCAPES, OR SKY ART Hi, Very quiet night on the List. Speaking of quiet nights... There a Japanese artist, Kagaya, who is a frequent painter of what can only be called skyscapes, a rather unusual category of art. I call them skyscapes, as opposed to astronomical space art (although he does that too), because they depict vivid naked eye views of the sky. These paintings are astronomically accurate, but are far more vivid than a real naked eye view because they ignore the contrast effects that limit human vision. To see the skies in full splendor, you have to have a dark seeing location so black and dark that you literally cannot see your own hand in front of your face, with no light source around you brighter than the faintest stars (as well as waiting for your eyes to become completely dark adapted). But the artist can collapse the contrast range so that all things become equally visible, to marvelous results. Here are a few of his skyscapes. Right down our alley. Meteor seen over a lake by a canoeist: http://www.kagayastudio.com/sora/hosibiyori/navigation/index.html Night sky as seen by a mother and child: http://www.mmbz.com/ysjp/54703/Img8085.jpg A delightfully peaceful view of the twilight (or is that twi-night) sky: http://www.kagayastudio.com/sora/hosibiyori/hosisuzumi/index.html Here is the artist's general web site: http://www.kagayastudio.com/ The available languages on the site are Japanese, Korean, and Chinese, but thankfully everything is thoroughly subtitled in English, so it's no trouble for the non-ideographic to navigate. Enjoy. Sterling K. Webb __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[Meteorite-list] re: Astroids associated with meteorites
Hello List, I read within the past several months a section of a book which associtates various meteorites with their supposed parent body. I can't remember the book title. If there are more than one I'd appreciate as many references as I can get because I have the book that I'm refering to in my library. Can anyone refresh my memory? Thanks in advance. Jerry Flaherty __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Chicago Steve Arnold is my HERO
I'm with John B. on this one. His advice can't be that hard cause even I do it! John, how's things. I still have my first chondrite[H4], Gold Basin with fond memories of your generosity and share the wealth enthusiasm. I was sorry to hear about your misadventures in Ohman. I'm sure you'd have preferred to be somewhere[anywhere] else. Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: John Blennert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 11:37 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Chicago Steve Arnold is my HERO Hi All I don't post tooo much !! But I thought I'll stick my nose in this one . Anyone who can stand to live and work in the greater chicago land area ( my home town) is a OK in my book . I bailed out a that area in 1976 and I don't like going back there even to visit friends or family . I can tolorate Steve's child like enthusiasm for wanting to run with the big dogs and be a wheeler dealer . Some of his posts are even cute (the tooth whole tooth and nothin but the tooth meteorite. ) Well if you don't like his adds do as I and delete em !! (Sorry Steve) Hey he's not the only guy peddlin space rocks on this list !! Sooo I say leave him alone and either buy his stuff or delete it if it's not of interest .Gooo for it big Steve !! Happy Huntin John Blennert __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Easy Observing Ceres Tonight (28-29 May)
Thanks Doug, I'll give it a shot if the skies stay open here! Jerry - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Easy Observing Ceres Tonight (28-29 May) I carelessly wrote: Ceres is still 2.5X brighter than Vesta tonight and twice as far as Vesta! Make that HALF as far of Vesta of course! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Two Questions
Hi Walter, Eric and List, Would Martian Tectonic forces ie. subduction, be a possible mechanism to trap and transport atmospheric gases into the bowels of the planet, later to be be contained in a magma chamber? Just an odd thought. Jerry - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Two Questions Walter Branch wrote: I been researching but I can't find the answers to two questions. First, what is the mechanism by which atmospheric gasses are trapped in the formation of basalts? I have been doing some lit reviews on martian meteorites and I find it interesting that some were formed in magma chambers deep undergound. indeed, some are thought to have formed several kilometers down. How does the Martian atmosphere get trapped in cooling rock so far underground. Hello Walter The mechanism for trapping gasses in Martian basalts is not entirely clear. One method that has been proven is implanting during shock events, such as being blasted off Mars. However there are some problems with this as well such as sometimes the gasses are fractionated (Kr/Xe ratio changes for instance). So although impact is likely part of the answer it isn't a clear winner. Another suggestion is fluid (water) transplant, however the gasses mostly reside in the water unaltered portions so this is likely not the answer. Trapping of mantle gasses during cooling has been suggested, but mantle reservoirs of gasses should have different ratios than atmospheric. So the exact mechanism is undetermined. Second, when determining Cosmic Ray Exposure ages, can atmospheric fragmentation and ablation of a meteoroid affect the results from such testing and if so, how are fragmentation and ablation taken into consideration when determiniing CREs? Yes fragmentation and ablation can affect the results and must be taken into account. Cosmic rays generally penetrate 3-10 meters into asteroidal bodies. Parts buried more than 10 meters or so receive almost no cosmic ray exposure so their CRE age is zero. If depth isn't taken into account a surface sample would show a older CRE than one at 5 meters. One method of determining depth is with Neon isotopes which have been shown to have a constant relationship with burial depth and cosmic ray exposure. So the neon can be used to determine depth and the other elemental isotopes can then be adusted for depth to give the CRE age. -- Eric Olson ELKK Meteorites http://www.star-bits.com Second try at posting this email: Hello Everyone, I been researching but I can't find the answers to two questions. First, what is the mechanism by which atmospheric gasses are trapped in the formation of basalts? I have been doing some lit reviews on martian meteorites and I find it interesting that some were formed in magma chambers deep undergound. indeed, some are thought to have formed several kilometers down. How does the Martian atmosphere get trapped in cooling rock so far underground. Second, when determining Cosmic Ray Exposure ages, can atmospheric fragmentation and ablation of a meteoroid affect the results from such testing and if so, how are fragmentation and ablation taken into consideration when determiniing CREs? Thanks to anyone who can help me understand these processes. -Walter Branch __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Macrochondrules
I for one have been looking for a 10 or 20 gram Saratov without luck? Any one interested? Jerry - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Macrochondrules And the most affordable way to obtain a megachondrule is to look for a Saratov, which costs at most dealers not more than 2$/g and as it's very crumbly one can easily isolate the megachondrules. But start now, to be in time for Xmas, if you plan to present your girl a chondrules-necklace Martin - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 7:25 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Macrochondrules An additional post: BRIDGES J.C. et al. (1997) A survey of clasts and large chondrules in ordinary chondrites (Meteoritics 32-3, 1997, 389-394) - Some examples of megachondrules: Parnallee, LL3 - 3 mm Bremervörde, H3 - 4 mm Estacado, H6 - 7 mm and 10mm Barratta, L4 - 8 mm Belle Plaine, L6 - 9 mm Bluff, L5 - 10 mm Crumlin, L5 - 11 mm Richardton, H5 - 11 mm De Nova, L6 - 13 mm Hajmah, L5-6 - 18 mm Best wishes, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Two Questions
Yet?!? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 6:54 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Two Questions No, there is no evidence of plate techtonics on Mars and therefor no subduction. -- Eric Olson ELKK Meteorites http://www.star-bits.com Hi Walter, Eric and List, Would Martian Tectonic forces ie. subduction, be a possible mechanism to trap and transport atmospheric gases into the bowels of the planet, later to be be contained in a magma chamber? Just an odd thought. Jerry - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Two Questions Walter Branch wrote: I been researching but I can't find the answers to two questions. First, what is the mechanism by which atmospheric gasses are trapped in the formation of basalts? I have been doing some lit reviews on martian meteorites and I find it interesting that some were formed in magma chambers deep undergound. indeed, some are thought to have formed several kilometers down. How does the Martian atmosphere get trapped in cooling rock so far underground. Hello Walter The mechanism for trapping gasses in Martian basalts is not entirely clear. One method that has been proven is implanting during shock events, such as being blasted off Mars. However there are some problems with this as well such as sometimes the gasses are fractionated (Kr/Xe ratio changes for instance). So although impact is likely part of the answer it isn't a clear winner. Another suggestion is fluid (water) transplant, however the gasses mostly reside in the water unaltered portions so this is likely not the answer. Trapping of mantle gasses during cooling has been suggested, but mantle reservoirs of gasses should have different ratios than atmospheric. So the exact mechanism is undetermined. Second, when determining Cosmic Ray Exposure ages, can atmospheric fragmentation and ablation of a meteoroid affect the results from such testing and if so, how are fragmentation and ablation taken into consideration when determiniing CREs? Yes fragmentation and ablation can affect the results and must be taken into account. Cosmic rays generally penetrate 3-10 meters into asteroidal bodies. Parts buried more than 10 meters or so receive almost no cosmic ray exposure so their CRE age is zero. If depth isn't taken into account a surface sample would show a older CRE than one at 5 meters. One method of determining depth is with Neon isotopes which have been shown to have a constant relationship with burial depth and cosmic ray exposure. So the neon can be used to determine depth and the other elemental isotopes can then be adusted for depth to give the CRE age. -- Eric Olson ELKK Meteorites http://www.star-bits.com Second try at posting this email: Hello Everyone, I been researching but I can't find the answers to two questions. First, what is the mechanism by which atmospheric gasses are trapped in the formation of basalts? I have been doing some lit reviews on martian meteorites and I find it interesting that some were formed in magma chambers deep undergound. indeed, some are thought to have formed several kilometers down. How does the Martian atmosphere get trapped in cooling rock so far underground. Second, when determining Cosmic Ray Exposure ages, can atmospheric fragmentation and ablation of a meteoroid affect the results from such testing and if so, how are fragmentation and ablation taken into consideration when determiniing CREs? Thanks to anyone who can help me understand these processes. -Walter Branch __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Scientists Excited About Potential ImpactCraterSite in...
What a GREAT Story!! Jerry - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Scientists Excited About Potential ImpactCraterSite in... Hi, Doug, The article Ron cited was a newspaper article. It contains what the reporter understood and could remember and we all, sadly, know how that goes! It's only a little muddled, but I was impressed that the news in Springfield, Missouri, did so relatively well. You'd have to know Springfield, Missouri to appreciate that, in the cultural capitol of the Ozarks. I can be snide about the Mountain William ethnicity, being one myself, down to the missing tooth, but nobody else better. Go to the link: http://geosciences.smsu.edu/faculty/Evans/impacts.htm If you move around through Evans' site, you'll see all the geological evidence nicely presented. He is the guy who has done the drilling and investigation that brought attention (and proof of shocked quartz) to the impact site and why this conference was there in the deep Missouri boonies. As for the crinoid crowd, my old house, being elevated far above street level, has a winding walk and stairway up to the door that was made from slabs from the local quarry here on the Mississippi River's edge, hauled home by the two and threes by my father in our old Ford in 1939. These stones didn't just have fossils in them -- they are solid fossil, a carpet of crinoids and all their former neighbors in the Ordovician seas of the Mid-West. I think there may be some Devonian interlopers in there too. They were my geology text as a child and I spend many long summer hours crawling up and down the steps with my nose to the crinoids and other assorted critters. This course of study climaxed at the age of six when I took a small sledge hammer and masonry chisel to the steps and removed a large and perfect Dinorthis from them, much to the displeasure of my parent! He was wise enough to take me to the quarry's trash pile and let me select a few boxfuls of the most fossiliferous fragments to take home and disassemble if I promised to leave the steps alone, which I did, so my crinoid walkway is still intact. Sterling K. Webb --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sterling Ron commented:: If a meteorite created the structure, it hit some 300 million years ago when mid-Missouri was part of an ancient Jurassic Age sea. The strike obliterated plant-like crinoids, Koeberl said. Ancient Jurassic Sea 300 million years ago? ??? I don't think so...So, what does the crinoidal limestone (Burlington Limestone) look like there...did it obliterate FOSSILIZED REMAINS or the CRINOID ANIMALS THEMSELVES...any more info on this comment? Is it an assumption or based on some observation of some crinoids...I thought their age was ~345 million years old in that locality...but the article mentions a strike 300 million years old...and the article refers to a Jurassic age...Jurassic is only 136-190 million years old (in the Mesozoic), so the article seems to have left an ambiguous chronostratigraphy- and that limestone is from the Paleozoic Mississipian, or pennsylvanian, I think...I hope someone could elucidate a bit on this...Also, crinoids are animals stuck withplant-like and the misnomer Sea Lilies, but look a lot more like brittlestars, the feathery starfish in many parts of the world, just they frequently had long stems in prior ages that now look like stacks of coins when found fossilized. Saludos, Doug __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Asteroidal and Lunar Materials
I absolutely love it!!Save Our Astroids Talk about a steel trap mind. Whoops that might no longer be a positive compliment!! Another wonderful weave with reality based imagination! Thanks Sterling. I may not have the math background but I sure am able to follow your engineered imaginative joutney into the future. Jerry - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 9:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: Asteroidal and Lunar Materials Hi, A while back there was a mini-thread about the cost of returning lunar materials to Earth and the effect of economies of scale on that cost. These cost concerns are similar to a much more analyzed topic: returning asteroidal materials to Earth. See John Lewis' book Mining The Sky. Even so, to date these discussions have been about materials that could be obtained on Earth (except for Helium-3). The chief point to remember about economies is that they change when the material commodity is both required and can not be obtained elsewhere. Here's an example: Imagine you want to build a bridge out of iron across a 100 foot chasm. The simplest way is to take a 100 foot long slab of iron (or steel), twenty feet wide and 10 feet thick, and flop it down. Inelegant, but a solution. More elegant is to take a very thin slab of iron and attach a variety of iron trusses underneath it, designed to support the stresses of the bridge. You use much less iron and get a bridge just as strong or stronger. A more elegant solution. Even more elegant is build the above example of a bridge very lightly indeed and support it with iron cables from towers. Now we're up to Golden Gate elegant, less material, more strength, all gotten by subdividing the structural shape into smaller and smaller internally braced voids. In older aircraft and race car design, we can see engineers drilling rows of big holes in beams and such like to create a more favorable strength/weight ratio. You engineers out there know all about this, of course. The next logical step would be to carry the principle down to the micro scale, where what appear to be solid structural members are themselves smaller and smaller internally braced voids. But both micro- and nano- fabrication is too fantastically expensive to contemplate. Hey, where do the asteroids (and the Moon) come into this?! Here it is. You've got all this iron (or natural stainless steel) in free orbit, zero gee, or at least, micro-gee. Melt it in a cylindrical electric induction furnace and eject it through a special nozzle at one end. (The furnace is electric because the sunshine is free and in constant supply.) The exit nozzle's walls have a multitude of injectors that inject a whoppingly large number of bubbles of nitrogen gas into the molten steel as it emerges. The injector banks are computer controlled for rate, pressure, pulsation pattern, and so forth. As the molten asteroidal steel foam exits the furnace into vacuum, it expands from the internal expansion of the nitrogen bubbles that have been injected into it. The desired goal is to regulate the process so that the final product contains a very large number of small voids which butt up to each other forming regular and irregular polyhedra with thin steel walls separating them. The result is a material with a density about 1/3rd that of water, twenty times lighter than a piece of steel the same size and shape, a structural strength greater than the best aircraft grade aluminum, and a strength / weight ratio that is an engineer's dream! Because it's fabricated in zero-gee, it can be produced in virtually any shape without distortion and made in gigantic sizes limited only by the capacity of the furnace producing it. (You want an I-beam how many miles long?) If any of you out there are engineers, your mouths should be already watering. If not, you're no engineer, at least not one in the mold of Isabard Kingdom Brunel. Do you want to build a bridge across the 29-mile Straight of Gibraltar? No problem. Do you want to build a skyscraper five miles high? No problem. Do you want to build a Tokyo-sized city that will float on the sea? No problem. Do you want to build a...? You get the idea. From fabrication in zero-gee, the huge pieces of Foam Steel will be spun sprayed with an ablative polymer and gently de-orbited into the central Pacific Ocean, after which they will be recovered, transported to the work site, cleaned of polymer, and put in use. Why the Pacific? Well, you know, there are always these silly folks who get unreasonably nervous about mile long pieces of steel falling out of the sky too near them; it's just good public relations to use the middle of the Pacific. Remember, Foam Steel will float! In fact, the density of Foam Steel could be only about twice that of Balsa wood! Foam Steel will float only 1/3rd
Re: [meteorite-list] Deep Impact Mission
Thanks for the heads up Bernd, Jerry - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 4:36 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Deep Impact Mission Hello List, A heads up for those among us who don't have a subscription to the Sky Telescope magazine. In the June issue, there is an article by E.M. Warner and our list member Greg Redfern: Deep Impact - Our First Look Inside a Comet (pp. 40-44) Here is a breakdown: - Introductory remarks - Deep Impact's Origin - Why Smash into a Comet*? - Two spacecraft in One - Closer to Home - The Aftermath * The target: Comet Tempel 1 also in this issue: - A Controversial Equatorial Martian Sea (p. 18) - Meteor Crater Mystery (p. 24) - Mars's Hale Crater (pp. 30-31) - Japan's Asteroid Archaeologist (pp. 34-37) - Targeting Comet Tempel 1 (pp. 67-68) - Amateurs and the Deep Impact Mission (pp. 70-71) (also by E.M. Warner and Greg Redfern) Best Sunday morning wishes, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - May 22, 2005
Marvelous BLACK Crust!! Such that the backgroung doesn't stand up to the competition!! - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 7:01 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - May 22, 2005 http://www.spacerocksinc.com/May22.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Asteroidal and Lunar Materials
Gotcha Marc! - Original Message - From: Marc Fries [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Asteroidal and Lunar Materials Howdy Interesting, but it needs work. First off, where do you get the nitrogen? Asteroids are devoid of the stuff, which means hauling large amounts of liquid nitrogen from the Earth's gravity well (!). Second, you've got big metallurgy problems. Fe-Ni is not stainless steel, as anyone who has watched their iron meteorite rust can attest to. Stainless steel is an iron-chromium alloy. Also, asteroidal metal contains large amounts of sulfides, which acts to embrittle metals. As a cautionary tale in that regard, it was discovered (far too late) that the iron used to build the Titanic was very sulfide-rich and the resulting embrittlement was a likely cause of its' sinking: http://dwb.unl.edu/Teacher/NSF/C10/C10Links/chemistry.about.com/library/weekly/aa022800a.htm In addition to sulfides, there will be silicates and minor refractory components which will basically rip the bubbles as they form: http://epubl.ltu.se/1402-1617/2002/344/index-en.html As a macro-scale example look at Coke cans, which have to be made from an aluminum alloy that is even more pure than aircraft aluminum to keep from ripping open under extreme plastic deformation when the can is made. Finally, dropping a kms-long rod of material, no matter how light, through the Earth's atmosphere at many km/s will break or deform the surviving pieces considerably. Perhaps this would be better off as a building material that is not intended to land on a planetary body (space stations?). I hate to keep playing the spoil-sport in these emails, but I hope y'all will look at this as a critical evaluation of the problems involved and not just a told-you-so-a-thon. If we understand the problems then someone can work to overcome them. Cheers, MDF Hi, A while back there was a mini-thread about the cost of returning lunar materials to Earth and the effect of economies of scale on that cost. These cost concerns are similar to a much more analyzed topic: returning asteroidal materials to Earth. See John Lewis' book Mining The Sky. Even so, to date these discussions have been about materials that could be obtained on Earth (except for Helium-3). The chief point to remember about economies is that they change when the material commodity is both required and can not be obtained elsewhere. Here's an example: Imagine you want to build a bridge out of iron across a 100 foot chasm. The simplest way is to take a 100 foot long slab of iron (or steel), twenty feet wide and 10 feet thick, and flop it down. Inelegant, but a solution. More elegant is to take a very thin slab of iron and attach a variety of iron trusses underneath it, designed to support the stresses of the bridge. You use much less iron and get a bridge just as strong or stronger. A more elegant solution. Even more elegant is build the above example of a bridge very lightly indeed and support it with iron cables from towers. Now we're up to Golden Gate elegant, less material, more strength, all gotten by subdividing the structural shape into smaller and smaller internally braced voids. In older aircraft and race car design, we can see engineers drilling rows of big holes in beams and such like to create a more favorable strength/weight ratio. You engineers out there know all about this, of course. The next logical step would be to carry the principle down to the micro scale, where what appear to be solid structural members are themselves smaller and smaller internally braced voids. But both micro- and nano- fabrication is too fantastically expensive to contemplate. Hey, where do the asteroids (and the Moon) come into this?! Here it is. You've got all this iron (or natural stainless steel) in free orbit, zero gee, or at least, micro-gee. Melt it in a cylindrical electric induction furnace and eject it through a special nozzle at one end. (The furnace is electric because the sunshine is free and in constant supply.) The exit nozzle's walls have a multitude of injectors that inject a whoppingly large number of bubbles of nitrogen gas into the molten steel as it emerges. The injector banks are computer controlled for rate, pressure, pulsation pattern, and so forth. As the molten asteroidal steel foam exits the furnace into vacuum, it expands from the internal expansion of the nitrogen bubbles that have been injected into it. The desired goal is to regulate the process so that the final product contains a very large number of small voids which butt up to each other forming regular and irregular polyhedra with thin steel walls separating them. The result is a material with a density about 1/3rd that of water, twenty times lighter than a piece of steel the same size and shape, a structural
Re: [meteorite-list] THE ART OF PHOTOGRAPHING
Excellent Advice Dave! Jerry - Original Message - From: Dave Freeman mjwy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 1:15 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] THE ART OF PHOTOGRAPHING Dear List; For the beginners of photographing meteorites and other rocks, minerals; there are some handy tips to get more response to your photos/adds to sell. 1.) throw away the blurry pictures. With digital photos so easy to delete and take another, why link to blurry pictures? 2.) a view of the overall size of the specimen is critical. a top or above angled view, with good lighting, and a scale such as a ruler, ones' thumb (which also helps with color scale, and trim your nails and wash hands before photographing), or other size defining characteristic is very important. Since Ssex sells cars and everything else, I have thought of getting a model with nicely done nails to hold a specimen for the camera. Close up of the hand only as we still want the focus to be on the rock specimen! 3. ) background area can help or detract from the specimen. I prefer a black soft cloth as a background so the viewer focuses on the specimen, not what is in the back ground. 4.) Get one good clear correctly lit close up of the specimen to show chondrules, visible iron specks, fusion crust...what ever is the best trait to show off in the picture. 5.) So, in the big picture: one good picture of overall size and shape of the specimen with a color and size scale and a darker less interesting back ground.A second picture of close up with good lighting and maybe a hand or scale/ruler to show good size and define colors. One can have more pictures of different angles, filters, etc. and even just one picture can represent a specimen many times. It is critical to delete the blurry pictures, to get some form of scale of the over all shape and size of the specimen. John G. has helped me to understand lighting in that many cameras do better with a partial cloudy day as direct sunlight gives to much light to the subject. Practice using the camera and teach it to be your friend, good pictures will sell items twice as fast as poor quality pictures. Hope this helps the amateur photographer. I am sure that many of you can add to this one. Dave Freeman eBay power seller mjwy IMCA # 3864 Rock Springs, WY __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: THE ART OF PHOTOGRAPHING
Super idea Chris, with a backdrop as described by Dave F. and the delete button operable, you're 9/10 of the way to excellent photos. Jerry[I even received a compliment from Bob Haag on a meteorite-wrong photo I shared with him!] - Original Message - From: Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re: THE ART OF PHOTOGRAPHING Tom- I'd suggest making a light stand. Very simple and cheap- just a couple of gooseneck lamps on either side of a 24 square board. This will let you light your sample from the sides and eliminate problems with glare and reflections. You might want to add a little frame overhead that will let you attach the camera so you don't have to hold it. I've shot hundreds of digital meteorite images at the Denver Museum of Nature and Science with just such a setup. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Tom Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Dave Freeman mjwy [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 11:35 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: THE ART OF PHOTOGRAPHING Hi Dave and list, One problem I have is the darn flash! I get everything set up just right, take the picture and all I get is a big glare where the flash hit. Of coarse the obvious solution is to turn off the flash, but then the pics are to dark. So, get some other light source, the sun maybe, well then your fighting trying to get the right angles, then I get shadows, and the light shining on the screen so you can't see if your focused or not. I probably take 20 pics to get one or two good ones, then back out to try again. I have actually given up on taking pics of some specimens after 40 or more tries, just can't seem to get it. Any suggestions? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 3 Day Meteorite Auctions
GO FIGURE!!! Jerry - Original Message - From: Tom Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Dave Freeman mjwy [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Bob Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 3 Day Meteorite Auctions Dave wrote; Trouble is that most buyers want a hot deal and prefer to just bid and wait it out rather than pay a penny too much with the buy it now option. That is true! I have actually had a few auctions that had someone bid on them and not use the buy it now, and when the auction ended, it went for more than the buy it know was in the beginning. Thanks, Tom peregrineflier - Original Message - From: Dave Freeman mjwy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bob Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 3 Day Meteorite Auctions Dear Bob; Many times I get requests for the buy it now option and I put it in most of my auctions. Trouble is that most buyers want a hot deal and prefer to just bid and wait it out rather than pay a penny too much with the buy it now option. Another large mistake is that one should bid what they feel is the most they are willing to pay and expect that they may not win everything they want if cost is a consideration. There seems to always be someone willing to pay more.If an item doesn't sell with the three day auction, the seller is forced to relist and then the cost vs. profit is changed with a relisting fee. Oddly, and item that doesn't sell the first go round may have a battle of the bidders war on the second listing, go figure. When someone figures it all out they can write a book and sell it to the list. Best Saturday, Dave Freeman mjwy Bob Evans wrote: I find it a pain in the rear to wait for a 7 day auction to end. I know that sellers want to get plenty of exposure, but, it seems like there are a few initial bids and then the auction goes into a freeze until the last day of the auction. So, we just sit back and wait. The way I look at it auctions that are of shorter duration could possibly double a sellers sales in any time frame.Sure its more work. But, $10k/ month is better than $5k/ right? Just a suggestion to all of the larger ( volume ) dealers . Mike , Hupe , etc. Just a suggestion, Bob __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.14 - Release Date: 5/20/2005 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: THE ART OF PHOTOGRAPHING Pictures 101
This one gets printed and saved for reference! - Original Message - From: Dave Freeman mjwy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tom Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 2:39 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: THE ART OF PHOTOGRAPHING Pictures 101 Dear Tom, List; Here we go.Get a dark (black felt) non reflective cloth square maybe a couple of feet in diameter...black or dark old wool blanket, worn old sheet, old sweatshirt.Set up your card table or picnic table out of doors where you have plenty of room and light. Get your chair and set it at the table. One end of the table put your cloth back drop. Set a rock on it so the wind doesn't blow it away. On the other end of the table place your yellow ruler, tiny plastic stand or something to set your slice up against. If you have a small tripod for your camera get it out. If you don't have the little $5 walmart tripod, find a 3 square box to use to steady your camera on. Get an old flower pot to put under the back side of the drop cloth so you have a back drop wall to shoot against. ** If you are photographing other than meteorites, also get a dry wipe cloth and a bowl of water as showing agates wet and dry is a good idea to show colors wet, and fractures when dry.*** Best light is indirect sunlight that comes from a high thin cloud cover. Second best is a white sheet propped up over your table so the direct sun is slightly filtered-thinned out some. Direct sunlight is ok if the sun is at a lower angle as around 5 pm (but watch for a yellow cast that is bad). Inspect your specimen and evaluate for the best angle and direction to show overall shape. Set your slice of ...mmm...oh what the heck, set your franconia on the plastic stand, or prop it up against the black cloth that is held up by hidden flower pot. Be ware of the the shadow caused by the camera and adjust to the side where there is no shadow on the specimen. Get your ruler or scale right up next to the specimen. A classic coin will work and is usually handy. I like turn of the century coins for that classic interest. Remember to get one picture of your thumb holding the specimen in at least one picture if it is important. Use the steady of the tripod or small box to be sure there is no camera movement when the camera goes off. These tips will help you get much better pictures with out even fussing with the zillion settings on your camera. On to the camera. Natural light is best. One can get insomnia trying to figure out what to do with light bulbs of different types. That is for the advanced among us which does not include me. Lumens are a type of vegetable if you ask me. I set my nikon on close up and on cloudy setting (or sunny if it is bright out, experiment here). There is a light adjustment to over expose a click or under expose a click (or a total of five if I wish to go that far.) I prefer never to use flash on my close ups as it is very unpredictable at best and worst is an over flash white out. No flash. Always be sure of looking though the LED monitor if you have one as the tiny plastic view finder will not properly show you what the lens sees at less than 2 feet. Center the specimen as close as you can to get the most of your specimen (and thumb or scale) in the picture. Most cameras will focus in the 2-4 range now days. Center specimen, scale in picture check, no shadow on specimen or scale check, light is right and the LED monitor view looks nice check, steady camera on the support box or tripod check, click the shutter button gently check.View the picture and shoot about 20 more from different angles and vary space an inch or more in and out. Go to computer and load in the pictures to desktop. View all pictures and delete any with blur, any with shadows gone, non attractive angles also go. You should have 2 or maybe a lucky 5 pictures to choose from if you have followed the suggested steps. Over all composition, angle of pictures of the specimen, and the lightingwow, pick one or two and they should be a great deal more attractive and representative of the great specimen you are attempting to capture.As with all things in life, read the camera directions when totally confused on the settings. And, take plenty of pictures. With digitalis being able to click click click ...do just that. Practice make perfect. Now spring is here, practice your macro skills on flower blossoms and you will be amazed at the cameras skill IF you watch your skill with the camera. Hope this helps the amateur. Please add to this if I have not discovered some other tricks. Dave F. Tom Knudson wrote: Hi Dave and list, One problem I have is the darn flash! I get everything set up just right, take the picture and all I get is a big glare where the flash hit. Of coarse the obvious solution is to turn off the flash, but then the pics are
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: THE ART OF PHOTOGRAPHING Pictures 101
Thanks Ann, Into this mental grist mill it goes and Thanks Tom and Dave for starting this thread. Jerry - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re: THE ART OF PHOTOGRAPHING Pictures 101 In a message dated 5/21/2005 12:40:37 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Here we go.Get a dark (black felt) non reflective cloth square maybe a couple of feet in diameter...black or dark old wool blanket, worn old sheet, old sweatshirt.Set up your card table or picnic table out of doors where you have plenty of room and light. Get your chair and set it at the table. One end of the table put your cloth back drop. Set a rock on it so the wind doesn't blow it away. On the other end of the table place your yellow ruler, tiny plastic stand or something to set snip A couple comments. I take all my pictures inside, on a corner of my desk, with a flash balanced by a couple desk lamps. Waiting for the weather to be just right is too time-consuming and unreliable. And I never use a black background, it just drowns out the specimens. I found some file folders in a very soft, neutral shade of gray and I find that it does not distort the color of whatever pieces you put on it, being a green Tatahouine, a very dark Kainsaz or a yellow Libyan glass. Then I down-load the pictures in Macromedia-Fireworks where I can trim the picture, adjust the size and resolution, without touching the color balance. I want my pictures to give a true image of the specimens, not improve them. And I do use a Nikon CoolPix 950. Older, but reliable. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] President, I.M.C.A. Inc. www.IMCA.cc __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 77-78 NE fall?
Doug I got to check out the Jupiter in the arms of the moon[kinda, actually
itlooked as if the moon had turned her back to Jupiter{a little like MY
lovelife}] tonight! Thanks for the tip! I looked ral knowledgeable as
I pointed it out at a coworker!! Jerry
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 77-78 NE fall?
Tom thanks Martin and awards him ¿a smiley?:
Martin kindly suggests:
The Chronological Index of Falls in your copy of
Meteorites A-Z is a great place to look for answers to
questions like yours.
I would have looked there, but I don't own a copy! : )
Thanks,
Tom, shame, letting such an answer-oriented book go to waste! Meteorites A
-Z is available from several nice listmembers and is highly recommended to
answer all sorts of routine questions about dates and falls instantly!
Someone
please offer this man a deal on this book! Or see if he'll trade for a
piece of his nice Franconia find!!
:-)
Also Tom, another good source faster than posting is the NHM online
Catalogue search feature, where you can just put the year in this link I
have copied
for you below (book mark it), selecting fallsand the year in this case.
I
tried 1977 and 1978 on two clicks and only came up with one in the US,
Louisville, in Kentucky, but that was on January 31, not in the summer.
Instead
of specifying USA I left it open for all countries, the search works better
that way, and of course Canada was a possibility an answer for your
question!!
http://internt.nhm.ac.uk/cgi-bin/earth/metcat/indexmany.dsml
Saludos, Doug
- Original Message -
From: Martin H. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tom Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED]; met list
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 77-78 NE fall?
Hi Tom,
The Chronological Index of Falls in your copy of
Meteorites A-Z is a great place to look for answers to
questions like yours.
Globally, there were two or three falls during summer
months of 1977 and 1978, but nothing around Michigan.
Two falls were in China, and one in Iraq.
Cheers,
Martin
--- Tom Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello List, I watched the video of the Chicago
fireball filmed by a police
car, and it reminded me, back in the summer of 77 or
78 can't quite
remember, I was back in Brighton Michigan and saw a
flash just like it.
I was just wondering if there was a fall around
that time west of
Michigan, or in Michigan?
Thanks, Tom
peregrineflier
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Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - May 18, 2005
Super photo Martin, Jerry - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 6:04 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - May 18, 2005 http://www.spacerocksinc.com/May18.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ceres, Luna, Jupiter, and ancient astronomers
Cool Doug as always. If the skies clear here I'll set up my new meade etx125 and check it out! Jerry - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 4:07 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Ceres, Luna, Jupiter, and ancient astronomers Hola List, Down here we have terrible haze and also lately cloudy skies, so I haven't had a chance to see Ceres, the largest Asteroid, during the brief but remarkable appearance. Ceres is thought to be of carbonaceous chondrite composition - and if so is probably the biggest Carbonaceous Chondrite in the Solar System, though it is pretty likely that there has been some differientiation early on. Ceres is currently at her brightest (opposition just passed) at about 7.1 magnitude now in the Constellation Libra. That's just a tad dimmer than the most eagle-eyed stargazers can see with the unaided eye under the best circumstances. Unfortunately for the Chondritic types on the List, the Moon is now waxing and has surpassed 50% illumination, which also means Luna is closing in on Ceres in the sky viewingwise - which will complicate a casual gaze with off the shelf binoculars to get a quite nice view of Ceres. I guess this could be good news for the Lunatics on the List:) JUPITER-MOON SHOW: As I was trying to see the optimum times to gaze upon Ceres from my rooftop, I noticed that tomorrow (May 19, Thursday evening) in the early evening other very interesting business will be going on at the Girl Next Door's, Virgo, Jupiter will Mooning about s closely (maybe some parts of the world down South will have a Lunar Jovian occultation, I didn't check). But it should be a real beautiful spectacle to see Jupiter and the Moon so intimately together, especially around 19:30 universal time (14:30 CDT). And I don't doubt that the active imaginations of some will report UFO, and a meteorite of two, seeing the two brightest objects in the sky so coincidently placed. They will still be darn close by the time of Sunset in the northeastern America's. Even New Yorkers won't need more than their eyes and no cloudcover to casually look up and appreciate the sight. Two days later, the Moon will also visit Ceres in Libra, but no where near as close as her intimate encounter with the King of the starry nights, who was also know to be eagle-eyed for maidens and romantically devious with wives of sleeping earthly kings. While I am rambling in case anyone has made it this far, I guess it is worth commenting that according to a well-researched Rutger's University Astronomer who wrote a book about it, close encounters of Jupiter foretell the birth of a King, and ancients believed the Moon amplifies that. Specifically, he commented, that the best scientific explanation of Star of Bethlehem was that on April 17, 6 (BC), there was a Lunar occultation of Jupiter that was interpteted by the Zoroastrian wisemen, who were astronomers, to foretell the birth of a great king in Judea (since it was happening in Aries the Ram, the Constellation believed to control their destiny), and the images of a star standing still or moving, were not of supernovae or meteoric in origin, but rather indicated when Jupiter resumed its cyclical prograde motion, on December 19, 6 (BC), appearing to be stationary in the same key constellation, Aries, or when it was Retrograde between August and December of 6 (BC). This theory is more than conjecture in its author's mind as he has found independent 4th centry proof to back him up in addition to crafting a very convincing story, first based on a period Roman coin from Antioch which shows a Ram considered to be Aries, and a star he considers the Star of Bethlehem. Either way, I hope interested List members and family and friends can have the opportunity to see this wonderful gibbousized symbol of ancient Byzantium forming in the sky! Getting back to Ceres - we need to be quick as it will fade very quickly and unfortunately the next few days are poor due to the bright and close pass to the Moon. Trivia: Ceres, the Goddess of Agriculture in Libra is currently Retrograde, and her retrograding period actually coincides quite well this year with the Spring Solstice and Vernal Equinox - starting Mar 21 and ending near Jun 21. On June 5 Jupiter once again will stand still (switch to prograde in the Virgin), I predict a bumper crop by November 30 when Jupiter arrives at balances, who knows what miracles will happen when he settles his accounts...! Hazeless skies, Doug __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Imilac slice SALE
Most beautiful Rodrigo! Jerry - Original Message - From: Rodrigo Martinez [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Central meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 4:34 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Imilac slice SALE Hola List My web is update with 9 new slice of Imilac with one face etched, You can see this in www.meteorites.cl click the button Imilac Pall. (slice) in the meteorites for sale area. All these pieces are polished for both faces and with good relation superficies/volume. Best regards Rodrigo Martinez Atacama Desert Meteorites www.meteorites.cl __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - May 17, 2005
Neatoo!! How'd you do that?? Jerry - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 6:54 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - May 17, 2005 http://www.spacerocksinc.com/May17.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - May 11, 2005
OH MY!!!WORDS FAIL ME! - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 5:55 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - May 11, 2005 http://www.spacerocksinc.com/May11.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] D'Orbigny, Unusual Angrite, Thin Section Photographs
MOST BEAUTIFUL MARK!! I FOR ONE WILL PRINT OUT YOUR DESCRIPTION. ANY HELP ON GETTING A HANDLE ON INTERPRETATION OF THIN SECTIONS IS MOST WELCOME.I'LL WATCH THIS THREAD IN THE HOPES OF LEARNING MORE. JERRY FLAHERTY IMCA# 1405 - Original Message - From: MARK BOSTICK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 12:32 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] D'Orbigny, Unusual Angrite, Thin Section Photographs Hello list, (Forgive me for if any of the following is scientifically wrong, this is my observations paired with my at times limited knowledge.) I recently received a D'Orbigny thin section. Which I have placed several photographs of on my web site at the following web page. http://www.meteoritearticles.com/coldorbigneyts.html One the best thin sections I have. OK, move over NWA 998, it is the best. This is due to its prismatic augite crystals, often found twisted with olivine, randomly placed anorthite shards, and the many large vugs/vug inclusions, in the stone. Some of these are filled with olivine or glass, some are empty and some are hollow, meaning the show traces of the former. In one vug on my thin section, is a well formed specter shaped crystal sticking out. In my microscope it appears bright red, so perhaps it is olivine. Another interesting note on the crystal that it formed in a hollow vug. Meaning in a vug that has traces of the former minerals that once filled the vug. This would mean of course that it formed after whatever was in the vug, which is most likely olivine. This is all my amateur observation and if anyone thinks the crystal, seen in photo 7, is not olivine, let me know your opinion please. Also photo 7 and photo 11, shows particle bugs with, under cross polars, appears brown as shown. This is what I think are hollow vugs, as described in a couple of papers. The former mineral thing again. Empty vug walls are shown in photos 7 and 8. Opinions and thoughts welcomed, Clear Skies, Mark Bostick Wichita, Kansas http://www.meteoritearticles.com http://www.kansasmeteoritesociety.com http://www.imca.cc http://stores.ebay.com/meteoritearticles __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Canyon Diablo nomenclature...was (Is AmgalaOfficial?/NewBulletin)
Cool Beans Doug! Always a great yarn spinner. This is what I've learned often from your contributions to the list! It's kind of a shame though. It reminds me of the moment, at about ten, when I learned how to read Comic Books. Soon after the text explained what was actually happening, I lost interest in them. My wild eyed imagination concocted wilder more compelling tales from the pictures, at least in my preadolescent mind, and IT WAS INTERACTIVE! Again that wild eyed imagination had brought Tail of the Devil and Devil's Canyon together and echoes of aboriginal oral tradition whispered secrets of witnessed falls[or better, shaman reasoned conformities ie. a witnessed fall[can]=a crater ergo a mega crater = a mega fall, a place to AVOID. Yes I'm aware that there is no chance of homo sapiens being present at Chixalub and even the Canyon stretches know facts. But in a larger sense, What the hell do we KNOW? Mr. Barringer may not have been first to deduce an extraterrestrial origin to the Crater that sometimes bears his name. Excuse my momentary unscientific mind set. I realize as I sit at this infernal machine that I owe most everything to modern science. But the mists of time beckon. Mind is mind, and reaching beyond facts if nothing else invigorates and revitalizes. You know think outside the box! Thanks for your indulgence. And a special thank you to Doug for steering me in a sounder direction. Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 12:51 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Canyon Diablo nomenclature...was (Is AmgalaOfficial?/NewBulletin) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) escribe: Canyon Diablo, what was the reasoning for that name Tom, Canyon Diablo = Valley of the devil Tom, Mark, Jeff, List: Canyon Diablo vs. Meteor Crater is an interesting case in nomenclature. It is sort of a chicken or egg first story because how could you name a meteorite after the crater it produced is you want to name it AFTER a topographical feature. If a meteorite wiped out a city, could you could it Chicago Crater instead of just Chicago? Well maybe the chicken and egg rules can be bent for finds (like Canyon Diablo) vs. falls...someone must have debated this a some time in the MetSoc:) Mark, Valley of the Devil may be where they grow your favorite wine, but Canyon Diablo's name would seem to have a different story (A canyon isn't quite a valley)...here's the story I pieced together from several interesting websites (I would say the translation is more true as Sin City) The canyon had earlier been given its name by Lt. Whipple during an 1853 army 35th parallel land survey after the Northamericans took the land from Mexico. Due to the extensive detour to cross it, he first cristened the canyon Devil's Canyon. The railroad had an equally difficult time building a bridge to cross the canyon in 1880, and it became the de facto railroad terminal. Originally named for the devil of a canyon to cross, the new town borrowed the railroad's designation and earned its name and raised it one by translating the word Devil into the Spanish word Diablo the latin-blooded naughtier counterpart of the meat and potatos Devil. Surpassing Flagstaff in size and somewhat like a modern day Las Vegas, Canyon Diablo was more dangerous than than the Earps and Holidays could ever hope to control. Many competing houses of prostitution, gambling and drinking and other parlors and dance halls offering similar opportunity lined the (only) street proudly named Hell Street, and business was brisk around the clock in the town that never slept. There was no law in the town. The blissful misery of the town got a cold shower and practically vanished when the bridge over the canyon was completed in 1890, when there were other reasons to pass through and have the Army keep it safe...and Arizona was on the way to becoming a State (which happened in 1912). Saudos, Doug __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Magnetic Personality of Ancient Mars
So revealing. Great research project! Thanks Ron. Jerry - Original Message - From: Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 4:33 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] The Magnetic Personality of Ancient Mars http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/050511_magnetic_mars.html The Magnetic Personality of Ancient Mars By Robert Roy Britt space.com 11 May 2005 A new study of old rocks on Earth could force a revision of theories about Mars. The results suggest ancient Mars might have been more magnetic than thought, challenging basic assumptions about the evolution of the red planet. Unlike modern Earth, Mars has almost no magnetic field today. Evidence has suggested Mars didn't have a very strong magnetic field early on, either. Our planet's magnetism is created by the rubbing of a solid inner core against a liquid outer core, which rotate at different rates and act as a dynamo. The magnetic field helps deflect cosmic radiation and solar particles, making Earth comparatively more habitable. Fossil compass Magnetism is recorded in the structure of rocks. Superheated material, when it cools, takes on a structure parallel to the prevailing magnetic field at the time. A planet's magnetic activity changes over the eons, in part because a young planet cools and solidifies as it ages, so ancient bedrock can serve as a time capsule for magnetism, a sort of fossil compass. A study in 2003 found the core of Mars, at least the outer part, is liquid. Surveys in the 1990s of magnetic fields on Mars, by the orbiting Mars Global Surveyor, detected the signatures of relatively intense magnetism in some of the planet's more modern surfaces. But the fields were found to be very weak in two large and old impact basis, called Hellas and Argyre. Each basin, carved out by a colossal space rock, is more than 3 billion years old. The data implied that Mars had a weak magnetic field back then. That analysis has influenced theories of how Mars cooled after its formation and when its inner layers developed distinct boundaries. Up close The new research calls into question the validity of measuring magnetism from an orbital perch. A team led by Stuart Gilder of the Paris Earth Physics Institute found that rocks in the 2-billion-year-old Vredefort impact crater in South Africa -- the oldest such structure on Earth -- are highly magnetized, yet from above the magnetism appears weak. Two other ancient craters reveal similar differences. The basic reason is simple: While magnetism is strong in individual rocks, the direction varies from rock to rock in these impact craters, so when examined from a distance, they cancel each other out. The study is detailed in the May 12 issue of the journal Nature. Meteorite craters can then seem to be magnetic or non-magnetic, depending on how close the magnetometer is to the source, writes David Dunlop, a University of Toronto researcher, in an accompanying analysis. Viewed from satellite altitudes of 100-400 kilometers [60-250 miles], martian impact basins would appear magnetically featureless if the magnetic vectors of their source rocks vary in direction over distances of a few kilometers or less. Exactly why the rocks are magnetized randomly is more complicated. Based on differing mineral structures in the rocks, Gilder and his colleagues hypothesize that when a space rock hits, the shock of the event would briefly create intense localized magnetic fields. Rocks that cool during this initial period would be magnetized with orientation related to these temporary field. Other rocks would cool more slowly, and would take on the planet's magnetic orientation. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Kansas Legal Debate: Creation,Evolution and Intelligent Design
Hmmm! sounds like what I've been led to BELIEVE. Jerry - Original Message - From: drtanuki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 6:54 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Kansas Legal Debate: Creation,Evolution and Intelligent Design Dear List, There is now a debate in the Kansas Courts (USA) about what should be taught in schools, Creationism, Evolution or Intelligent Design. Intelligent Design is a new paradigm that states that there was an Intelligence behind the design of the Universe and Creation of Life. What are the views of members on this List? Thank you for this debate. Sincerely, Dirk Ross...Tokyo Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - May 6, 2005
NICE! NICE! NICE! GOOD TASTE! - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 5:46 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - May 6, 2005 http://www.spacerocksinc.com/May6.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Properties of chondrules
DITTO ON THAT JERRY - Original Message - From: Jeff Grossman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Properties of chondrules If anybody finds one, I'd like a copy too! Jeff At 07:54 AM 5/6/2005, Jeff Kuyken wrote: Hi List, I'm looking for a PDF (if possible) for the following abstract: Title: Properties of chondrules Authors: Grossman, Jeffrey N.; Rubin, Alan E.; Nagahara, Hiroko; King, Elbert A Journal: IN: Meteorites and the early solar system (A89-27476 10-91). Tucson, AZ, University of Arizona Press, 1988, p. 619-659 Any help would be appreciated, Jeff Kuyken I.M.C.A. #3085 www.meteorites.com.au __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Elton Picts
Nice Pictures Derek!! Jerry - Original Message - From: derek yoost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 9:37 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Elton Picts I just made a very simple web page with the picts. Please be patient, the picts are large. http://www.njfossils.net/elton.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ceres Puts On A Show This Week
Thank you Ron, for the heads up[no pun intended]. I hope it's clear skies tomorrow nite. Tonight's a wash! Jerry - Original Message - From: Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 5:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Ceres Puts On A Show This Week http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/science/20050504--1c04star.html Ceres, a big name in rock, puts on a show UNION-TRIBUNE (San Diego, California) May 4, 2005 It was little more than 200 years ago - on the first day of the 19th century - that the Italian astronomer Giuseppe Piazzi found a strange object in the sky that no one had ever seen before - an intruder among the familiar stars of the constellation Taurus, the bull. After waiting several nights, he returned to the telescope and found that the object had moved. Piazzi's first thought was that he had discovered a comet. The intruder turned out, instead, to be an asteroid - the first ever found. He named it Ceres (SEE-reez), after the Roman goddess of agriculture and protector of Sicily. Today, Ceres is the largest such rocky chunk known, with a diameter of 567 miles. In fact, it alone contains about one-third of the mass of the entire asteroid belt, the swarm of countless rocky bodies orbiting the sun between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter. This week, the asteroid reaches its opposition point in its orbit around the sun, rising in the east as the sun sets in the west. And this means that you should have a great opportunity to spot Ceres with binoculars. Ceres now glows at just under the limit of naked eye visibility - only about two times more faint than the faintest stars we can see. Nevertheless, with binoculars, you can search for this cosmic nomad on your own. To see it, head outdoors around 9 or 10 p.m. and find the constellation of Libra, the scales, low in the southeastern sky. Your best bet is to try tomorrow, May 5, or couple of days after. That's because the asteroid will appear less than one degree north of the brightest star of Libra, Zubeneschamali. If you aim your binoculars toward this star, you should have little trouble finding Ceres nearby, the brightest star in your field of view. Because Ceres moves around the sun, its orbital motion is detectable as it drifts past Zubeneschamali from night-to-night. So check it out the next night. And the next. You can even make a sketch of the field for later comparison. This works best if you can mount your binoculars on a tripod. If the star you thought was Ceres has indeed moved, you've found it. And my guess is that you'll be just as excited as Piazzi must have been two centuries ago. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Did Life Arrive Before the Solar SystemEvenFormed?
What's your idea of life's origin. Earth bound at the throat of an oceanic fumerole? Just wondering. Jerry - Original Message - From: Marc Fries [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Did Life Arrive Before the Solar SystemEvenFormed? Howdy I don't like panspermia; not even a little bit. It does nothing to answer the question of where and how life started in the universe. All it does is add a few million to billions of years of travel in the cold, dry, radiation-hard vacuum of space to the journey. That, plus you've got to crush/heat it in a violent, solar-system-ejecting imact and then crush/heat it again on the recieving end. Even if you shorten that journey to a trans-planetary scale you've still done nothing to answer any questions about how it originated, and you're still dealing with several physical processes that each alone have the power of sterilization. And at the end of all of THAT, you've still dropped any surviving (not bloody likely) microbes into a foreign environment that they're not adapted to! You can hang litho or nano or freakin' nuclear-powered or anything you want to onto the front of panspermia and it's still useless as a theory. How annoying that it still crops up from time to time... Bah humbug, MDF http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish/lithopanspermia.html Did Life Arrive Before the Solar System Even Formed? Written by Jeff Barbour Universe Today May 4, 2005 Summary - (May 4, 2005) The theory of panspermia proposes that life really gets around, jumping fron planet to planet - or even from star to star. Life might be everywhere! Assuming this is true, how do single-celled bacteria make the journey through the vacuum of space? Easy, they use chunks of rock as space ships, in a process called lithopanspermia. And now, researchers from Princeton and the University of Michigan think that life carrying rocks might have been right there at the beginning of our solar system, keeping their tiny astronauts safe and sound, frozen in statis until the planets formed and the right conditions let them thaw out, stretch their proteins, and begin a process leading from microbe to mankind. Full Story - Things seem to start simple then get more complex. Life is like that. And perhaps nowhere is this notion truer than when we investigate the origins of life. Did the earliest single cell life-forms coalesce from organic molecules here on Earth? Or is it possible that - like dandelions wafting spore above spring grass - cosmic winds carry living things from world to world later to take root and flourish? And if this is the case, how precisely does such a dia-spora occur? 450 years before the common era, Greek philosopher Anaxagoras of Ionia proposed that all living things sprung from certain ubiquitous seeds of life. Today's notion of such seeds is far more sophisticated than anything Anaxagoras could possibly envision - limited as he was to simple observations of living things such as budding plant flowering tree, crawling buzzing insect, loping animal or walking human; not too mention natural phenomena like sound, wind, rainbows, earthquakes, eclipses, Sun, and Moon. Surprisingly modern in thought, Anaxagoras could only guess as to the details... Some 2300 hundreds years later - during the 1830s - Swedish chemist Jöns Jackob Berzelius confirmed that carbon compounds were found in certain meteorites fallen from the heavens. Berzelius himself however, held that these carbonates were contaminates originating with the Earth itself - but his finding contributed to theories propounded by later thinkers including the physician H.E. Richter and physicist Lord Kelvin. Panspermia received its first real treatment by Hermann von Helmholtz in 1879, but it was another Swedish chemist - 1903 Nobel Prize winning Svante Arrhenius - who popularized the concept of life originating from space in 1908. Perhaps surprisingly, that theory was based on the notion that radiation pressure from the Sun - and other stars - blew microbes about like tiny solar sails - and not as the result of finding carbon compounds in stony meteorite. The theory that simple forms of life travel in ejecta from other worlds - embedded in rock blasted from planetary surfaces by the impact of large objects - is the basis for lithopanspermia. There are numerous advantages to this hypothesis - simple, hardy forms of life are often found in mineral deposits on Earth in forbidding locales. Worlds - such as our own or Mars - are occasionally blasted by asteroids and comets large enough to hurl rock at speeds exceeding escape velocities. Mineral in rocks can shield microbes from shock and radiation (associated with impact craters) as well as hard radiation from the Sun as stony meteors move through space. The hardiest forms of life also have the ability to survive in a cold vacuum by going into stasis - reducing
Re: [meteorite-list] Did Life Arrive Before the Solar SystemEvenFormed?
Superior fun read! Jerry - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Marc Fries [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Did Life Arrive Before the Solar SystemEvenFormed? Hi, Humbug and All, Humbug right back. You'll notice the press release so politely mentions that quote previous studies have looked into the likelihood that life-bearing rocks (typically exceeding 10 kgm's in weight) play a role in the spread of life within isolated planetary systems and found the odds of both meteoroid and biological transfer are exceedingly low. unquote They are referring to what is (was?) considered the definite work on the subject by impact authority Jay Melosh: http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~jmelosh/InterstellarPanspermia.pdf who basically said not in the lifetime of the galaxy or in other words, Humbug! Melosh's work was an impressive piece of computer simulations. The problem with computer simulations is that you have no idea if you're right or tip-toeing through the daisies without a reality check. At the time of its publication, I posted a fine cranky piece to the List, pointing out that AMOR radars all over the world (but particularly New Zealand with their lovely view of the South Pole) detect objects that have to have come from outside the solar system all the time. Granted, they are less than 1% of the tens of thousands detected per year, but that's still one hell of a lot of interstellar meteoroids! Yes, granted they are small grains, not 10 kilogram transports, but do you really think that bacteria chicken out and cancel their flight plans if the plane doesn't weigh at least 10 kilograms? You're not getting me up there in that thing -- why that rock doesn't weight one kilo much less ten! If there are frequent small interstellar particles, then less frequently there are larger ones, and even less frequently there are even larger ones, and so on. It's called the power law of mass distribution. And it means that all those computer simulations really were only a walk through the daisies... Extremophiles just love extremes. Radiodurans clogs up the core of nuclear reactors, basking without sun block or dark glasses in a flux that would kill you in five seconds or less. There are extremophiles that love the pressure miles into the Earth's mantle, extremophiles that smack their chops at the chance to dine on almost any toxic substance known, extremophiles that catch cold if they're not swimming around in 600-degree fluids. Anything or anywhere nasty, there's some little bug that loves it, needs it, and just can't live without it. Commonly, you might think nothing could survive so long or hard a journey. I point you to a simple example of survival by endurance: the common tick. Ticks are complex animal organisms just like we are, not hard durable one-cellers. But once a momma tick embeds her dormant offspring in the bark of a tree limb, the young tick will persist in a state indistinguishable from death for 10 years, 30 years, 50 years, 80 years (no one really knows how long), until a sweaty warm-blooded mammal walks under the tree and a few molecules of its pheromones waft up to the tree limb. In the 0.5 to 1.0 second that passes from the time your sweaty forehead moves under the tree limb and your scent starts up slowly toward the limb, the 50-year dead tick will detect those molecules from its burial site inside the tree bark, wake up from its death, get every organ pumped up and working, bore through the bark of the limb, and drop straight down with unerring aim onto the back of your neck or into your hair if he's fast enough, ready to start drinking your blood! If the tick misses you, it's dead. It won't get a second shot and hasn't the strength to try anything else. If you describe this strategy to most people without telling them it's the life of a tick, they will just shake their heads and say, Impossible. But, since there certainly seem to be more than enough ticks in this world, this impossible scenario must succeed. So, I figure that a living (though possibly dormant) cell riding in a dust mote that's zipping through the 3 K vacuum and dodging the rare UV photon and cosmic rays (even rarer), is a distinct biological option, no more amazing or unlikely than that tick. I see him now. He's drifting along, sound asleep in his recliner, and waiting for that soft landing in the atmosphere of a planet he can eat. Yum. Crunch. And before you know it, there's another blue world with a poisonous oxygen atmosphere... Since the Universe is almost exactly three times older than the solar system, this has likely been going on for a long, long time, and I figure the whole place is probably thoroughly infested with ubiquitous life, life, life. The dam things are everywhere.
Re: [meteorite-list] 2-hour meteor/meteorite/asteroid documentary onHistory Channel
Thanks Bob, My Tivo is all set up for it thanks to your reminder!! Can anyonehelp me. I can't post directly to the list.Only reply and reply to all. Thanks in advance Jerry - Original Message - From: Matson, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 4:07 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] 2-hour meteor/meteorite/asteroid documentary onHistory Channel Hi All, A reminder for those that missed it last Sunday, the History Channel is repeating the Meteors: Fire in the Sky documentary today (Sunday) at 12 noon. (Check your local listings for the exact time in your time zone.) Here's a link: http://www.historychannel.com/global/listings/series_showcase.jsp?EGrpType= SeriesId=14647826NetwCode=THC --Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Steve I thought you were going to control your postings?
I have to agree with Michael Blood on this one[on a lot more too Michael], DELETE or be DELETED!! Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: drtanuki [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Steve I thought you were going to control your postings? Greetings Dirk and endless numbers of other list members who find dealing with Chicago Steve intolerable: First, and foremost, and I am AMAZED people don't get this - there IS a delete key on your computer. If you find the posting of some individual frustrating, intolerable, inexcusable or just plain undesirable, USE IT. It is ridiculous to have MORE postings complaining about Steve than even the landslide of postings from Steve, himself. If you cannot find it within yourself to see the humor or just rib him - then, by all means, DON'T READ HIS POSTS. If his posts are so upsetting to you, WHY DO YOU READ THEM??? (Can ANYONE answer that question? And Dirk, did you REALLY think for one moment Steve was going to control himself? Cummon, Dirk, you're a sophisticated guy. Do you even think that is a possibility?) I am astonished that people will actually REPLY to Mateo - who was kicked off the list and then blatantly formed multiple email addresses so he could sabotage the list owner and continue to rain his - posts - on this list in blatant refusal to be kicked off. What is the deal? How can people NOT tolerate Chicago Steve and still give one moment's acknowledgement of the existence of a completely out of control dealer who has ripped off many members of this list who ignores the list owner's attempts to boot him off??? How do you justify that in your heads? Ya, Steve's negative feedback on eBay was out of line, but he did apologize and straiten it out. 99.9% of his posts are just overwhelming exuberance and a lack of awareness of social propriety - quite different than ripping people off and sabotaging the list moderator's attempt to keep you off the list. So, even taking the Italian saboteur out of the equation, you are left with the posts of someone a lot of list members do not care for. Fine - you have every right in the world not to care fore anyone you choose. But please, don't post more to the list than HE does complaining about him. Remember folks: Delete, delete, delete. It could be worse. If you don't believe me, go look at the Blog. NO! On second thought, I wouldn't wish that one anyone. Best wishes, and keep them Delete Keys oiled, Michael on 5/1/05 8:56 AM, drtanuki at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear List and Steve, Steve had promised us that he would cut down on his postings to the list, but we are still seeing two or more per day. Why Steve? Did you forget again or you cannot help yourself? Please think about what you want to say and make it into one post before sending it out. Tired of your daily posts. Thank you. Dirk...Tokyo __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. -Herb Cohen -- If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Steve I thought you were going to contro yourpostings?
SOOO True!!! Jerry - Original Message - From: RYAN PAWELSKI [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 4:10 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Steve I thought you were going to contro yourpostings? First, and foremost, and I am AMAZED people don't get this - there IS a delete key on your computer. If you find the posting of some individual frustrating, intolerable,inexcusable or just plain undesirable, USE IT. It is ridiculous to have MORE postings complaining about Steve than even the landslide of postings from Steve, himself. Exactly! Instead of finding one email from Steve, I am having to go through my mail and weed-out about a dozen emails pertaining to this subect. And please don't use the word hypocrite, because we wouldn't be in this ridiculous situation day after day if people would just take two whole seconds to delete the unwanted email. Enough already! Ryan -Original Message- From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: May 1, 2005 11:32 AM To: drtanuki [EMAIL PROTECTED], Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Steve I thought you were going to control your postings? Greetings Dirk and endless numbers of other list members who find dealing with Chicago Steve intolerable: First, and foremost, and I am AMAZED people don't get this - there IS a delete key on your computer. If you find the posting of some individual frustrating, intolerable, inexcusable or just plain undesirable, USE IT. It is ridiculous to have MORE postings complaining about Steve than even the landslide of postings from Steve, himself. If you cannot find it within yourself to see the humor or just rib him - then, by all means, DON'T READ HIS POSTS. If his posts are so upsetting to you, WHY DO YOU READ THEM??? (Can ANYONE answer that question? And Dirk, did you REALLY think for one moment Steve was going to control himself? Cummon, Dirk, you're a sophisticated guy. Do you even think that is a possibility?) I am astonished that people will actually REPLY to Mateo - who was kicked off the list and then blatantly formed multiple email addresses so he could sabotage the list owner and continue to rain his - posts - on this list in blatant refusal to be kicked off. What is the deal? How can people NOT tolerate Chicago Steve and still give one moment's acknowledgement of the existence of a completely out of control dealer who has ripped off many members of this list who ignores the list owner's attempts to boot him off??? How do you justify that in your heads? Ya, Steve's negative feedback on eBay was out of line, but he did apologize and straiten it out. 99.9% of his posts are just overwhelming exuberance and a lack of awareness of social propriety - quite different than ripping people off and sabotaging the list moderator's attempt to keep you off the list. So, even taking the Italian saboteur out of the equation, you are left with the posts of someone a lot of list members do not care for. Fine - you have every right in the world not to care fore anyone you choose. But please, don't post more to the list than HE does complaining about him. Remember folks: Delete, delete, delete. It could be worse. If you don't believe me, go look at the Blog. NO! On second thought, I wouldn't wish that one anyone. Best wishes, and keep them Delete Keys oiled, Michael on 5/1/05 8:56 AM, drtanuki at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear List and Steve, Steve had promised us that he would cut down on his postings to the list, but we are still seeing two or more per day. Why Steve? Did you forget again or you cannot help yourself? Please think about what you want to say and make it into one post before sending it out. Tired of your daily posts. Thank you. Dirk...Tokyo __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. -Herb Cohen -- If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] classification question
List, I'd like some clarification on L versus LL and on 3-5 versus 3/5. Also is there a corresponding H versus HH classification? If I can ever get the chondrites together my next challange will be the Irons. Thanks in advance. Jerry Flaherty __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Wanted meteorite CD
Try www.meteor-center.com Jerry - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 9:52 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Wanted meteorite CD Hi List , Anyone know who was selling the meteorite cd on NWA's . Thanks Sonny __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Wanted meteorite CD
The name is Pele Pierre-Marie, Jerry F - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 9:52 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Wanted meteorite CD Hi List , Anyone know who was selling the meteorite cd on NWA's . Thanks Sonny __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ebay auction go to ended
Poor Matteo[but i sure had to laugh] - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ebay auction go to ended On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 20:18:49 +0200 (CEST), M come Meteorite Meteorites [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello My auctions its under go to ended, for who want look here http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPageuserid=mcomemeteorite Matteo's translation engine: http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/translate.jpg __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Don't worry, I am leaving.
Boy Tom, you really have a fan club! Maybe you should listen to some of this. Jerry - Original Message - From: Mark Miconi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tom Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED]; met list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Don't worry, I am leaving. Tom, Get over itit is not changing the way anyone here feels about you or your daughter. If anyone here or anywhere else is stupid enough to believe the crap that is posted then they are on the same level as the poster. You are letting the buttlicker win by letting his posts bother you. The person is obviously a spineless coward sissy-mommy boy that hides from those he would attack like some little wussy. IF YOU WERE A REAL MAN YOU WOULD FACE TO FACE TOM AND GIVE HIM THE CHANCE TO BEAT YOUR ASS. INSTEAD it is someone on this list that is a spineless little wimp that can only hurt people with lies. They would NEVER HAVE THE GUTS TO STAND UP AND SAY THEY DID ITTHAT IS WHY THEY ARE A COWARD AND A LURKERS. YOU KNOW who you are and if I knew who you were I would personally kick your wimpy little ass and dress you in a skirt and panties like the sissy you are. WHY not stand up and be recognized for the spineless wimp you are? Because you are a gutless little sissy that hides behind your mommy when the real men show up. Come onI am no powerhousereveal yourself so I can personally deliver a message to youREDNECK STYLE! Mark M Arizona - Original Message - From: Tom Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: met list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:38 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't worry, I am leaving. Hello List, many have said I should not leave the list due to the blog. Yesterday I posted a real question, what is the draw back to a .006 blade and got the answer. That post was copied to the blog, it was not a dumb question, but someone on the list hates me so much that any post I make offends him and he has to take it over to the blog. And from the blog; As long as Ssteve and Tom continue their ways, this blog will be fueled. What asking serious questions? Some of the people on the blog can not see why I would get offended that they drag my daughter into it, maybe they don't have kids, or they just don't care about theirs? They wrote; Tom Ks daughter said... Yeah, if Ssteve moves here with Tom K he can bring his Dell and then Tom and he can share. Also I wont have to pretend to be interested in dads meteorites; and I can get my home work done on time. To me that is insulting, for one, they have no right even mentioning my daughter, second, the blog can be found using google and the whole world can read this crap and they are making my daughter out to be a selfish phony. They do not know my daughter, she is one of the most generous people you could ever know. She does not pretend to anything, she is a very real person, allot more than the people who hide behind the anonymity of the blog and insult innocent people. And just a side note, she is the type of student that gets her homework done while still in school and is one of the top students in her school. So, I do need to leave the list, any post I ever make will just give the bloggers something to talk about and a excuse to put my daughter down. And, the owner of the blog was asked nicely to take the posts about my daughter down by a couple of people, but he will not, what a nice guy, a kid hater no doubt! Thanks, Tom peregrineflier http://www.frontiernet.net/~peregrineflier/Peregrineflier.htm http://fstop.proboards24.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Park Forest, Steve Witt and Tom Knudson
And how!!! thanks for the post Steve and thanks for you offer to Steve, Manoj. I only have one PF that I treasure. Sorry I'm not as generous. Jerry - Original Message - From: Steve Witt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite-List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Park Forest, Steve Witt and Tom Knudson Greetings Tom, Bernd and List, Tom, as Bernd's kind word pointed out, there's so many positive things on this list. Let the other stuff go. As an example of this I'm including an e-mail I received only five minutes after I requested a Park Forest slice for sale. Hello Steve, I just joined the list IMCA a few months ago. I not a dealer nor a serious collector. I am into meteorites mainly for education purpose. I would not have sent you this reply, if I hadnt read Bernd post. Its a pleasure to hear that you have given away meteorites and are now looking for the same meteorites. I am sorry to hear this. I have a Park Forest Micro. Should be the size of a pin head. I got this from Mr.Steve Arnold. I am not sure if this will fit the bill as its not a parallel cut nor 3 mm thick. In case you do not get a PF slice that you want, the one I own is yours. Feel free to contact. I will send it for free. Best wishes Manoj Pai Astronomy Club Ahmedabad,India IMCA # 1661 I believe the above speaks for itself on the good of this List. Regards, Steve --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve W. wrote: looking for a small slice of P.F to be mounted in a ring. Please contact me off list if you have a slice available. Hello Steve, Tom, and List, Listen Tom if you are still out there. I have 5 P.F. specimens that I am very proud of. Why am I telling you that? All these specimens are gifts, ... gifts from Steve Witt. Yes, the same Steve who is now looking for a small slice to be mounted in a ring. Maybe he could have used one of the pieces he so generously sent me months ago. What I am telling you is that instead of concentrating on the garbage that is tossed around on this blog list you had better focus on the positive things that occur on our List, you had better enjoy the positive contributors and contributions to this Meteorite Central List and forget about the rest because they are not worth the bandwidth they use and abuse. Thank you once again, Steve. I don't have to tell you that these 5 Park Forest pieces will never leave my collection of meteorites! Best wishes and Good night, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Steve Witt IMCA #9020 http://www.meteoritecollectors.org __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bolide Reported From Cape Cod, Mass
Hi Ryan, I'm on my way to work so I'll be brief. I haven't heard any thing else. Jerry - Original Message - From: RYAN PAWELSKI [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 9:01 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Bolide Reported From Cape Cod, Mass Any further reports or confirmations of this event Jerry? I guess it is breaking news at this point. Ryan __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] METEOROLOGIST
Hi Chris, I live in Plymouth Ma, I missed the bollide but heard the live police, military, and fire chatter on my scanner. The first report came from State troopers that had a report from Otis air base on Cape Cod about a meteor that was at about 755. If this was headed west it probably made western NY or Ohio huh? Jerry - Original Message - From: Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] METEOROLOGIST Manoj- In terms of cosmic velocities, the rotation rate of the Earth is pretty insignificant. In this case, the difference between east-west and west-east is only a few hundred meters per second. More to the point is the time it occurred- early evening. Because the zenith is receding at the orbital velocity of the Earth at sunset, such fireballs tend to be caused by bodies in prograde orbits which intersect the Earth at low relative speeds. As a result, evening fireballs tend to be longer and are probably more likely to produce meteorites. From the descriptions I've read, last night's event sounds like a typical slow, bright, early evening fireball. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Manoj Pai [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 11:07 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] METEOROLOGIST Chris is right that it cannot possibly be a Lyrid fire ball as the radiant was in the opposite direction. But since its come from the Western end... it must have been pretty fast... since it has caught up with the rotation of earth. Manoj Pai __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bolide Reported From Cape Cod, Mass
Thanks Charlie!!Jerry - Original Message - From: Charlie Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: RYAN PAWELSKI [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bolide Reported From Cape Cod, Mass Hello Jerry and Ryan, From CNN Boston: http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/04/25/meteor.shower.ap/ From The Westerly Sun, south coast of Rhode Island: http://www.thewesterlysun.com/articles/2005/04/25/news/news3.txt Some observations culled from reports in the Providence Journal: Tiverton, R.I. police said they searched near the Sakonnet River for reported meteorite landings but found nothing. Connecticut state police were searching near East Lyme last night, based on similar reports. ( I was artifact hunting along the Sakonnet River today, but, of course, did not see any skyrox.) A crowd gathered at Second Beach in Middletown to watch the show in the sky, according to Newport, R.I. police. 'A woman came into the station and said it was awesome,' a Newport police spokesperson said. 'They were down at Second Beach ( a south facing beach on the Atlantic ), and this thing came screaming across the sky. It had a tail and everything. It was green.' From R.I. State police: The descriptions varied, a spokesperson said. It came in as a plane smoking. Then it came in a a plane throwing out small articles, which were parachuting. It really was bizarre. Most of the reports were something that was smoky, or a plane that was on fire the spokesperson said. Regards, Charlie __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Where did she fall?
Aye, Aye to lack of noise!! Farther west? Jerry - Original Message - From: Matson, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 5:48 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Where did she fall? If anyhitng did make it, my guess would be in the water somewhere, since there have been absolutely no reports in the media of any findings thus far. What are the chances that not one person observed, or located any fragments in such a well-populated area? Actually, the Northeast isn't all that well populated away from the coastline. If meteorites landed in western Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire or upstate New York, you're talking a lot of forest and mostly rural area. I haven't read any reports of sonic booms, so I wouldn't get my hopes up that anything will ever be found. --Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] etched Imilac slice SALE
Beautiful as always Rodrigo!!! Jerry - Original Message - From: Rodrigo Martinez [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Central meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 5:46 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] etched Imilac slice SALE Hola List My web is update with 8 new slice of Imilac with one face etched, You can see this in www.meteorites.cl click the button Imilac Pall. (slice) in the meteorites for sale area. All these pieces are polished for both faces and with very good relation superficies/volume Best regards Rodrigo Martinez Atacama Desert Meteorites www.meteorites.cl __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] re: Meteorite Impacts on the Moon
Marco and List, My apologies for piggybacking this message but am unable to post directly to List A possible meteor has been reported from Cape Cod Mass, Otis Tower Air Base and the scanner is alive with State patrols and Helicopter traffic about it and related searches for downed aircraft The fist report on the scanner was approx 7:55pm. Scanner traffic has died down but the SP were responding to numerous calls about the event! Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Marco Langbroek [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 3:48 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] re: Meteorite Impacts on the Moon Didn't realize I had this sitting at home: - Luis Bellot Rubbio et al.: Observation and interpretation of meteoroid impact flashes on the moon. Earth Moon Planets 82-83 (2000), 575-598. (also published in: Jenniskens et al. (eds.), Leonid Storm Research. Kluwer Academic Publishers) Analysis of 8 impact flashes recorded by video during the Leonids of 1999, six of which were filmed by at least two stations simultaniously (i.e, one flash recorded by more than one station). - Marco - Dr Marco Langbroek Dutch Meteor Society (DMS) e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] private website http://home.wanadoo.nl/marco.langbroek DMS website http://www.dmsweb.org - __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Largest collection criteria
This is my amateurish thought since I am so proud of my tiny collection that I want to burst each time think about it! Jerry - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 12:02 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Largest collection criteria Hola List, The largest collection? H. I think how well the collection satisfies you is more important. Statistics need to be defined for those with the need to brag or compare their collection with others. Clear measurements don't work for large. They do for: The most represented finds, falls. The most from a particular geographical area (A NWA collector my snub a US collector, to each his own). The most represented duplicate samples.. The most types, anomolous meteorites.. The most massive. The most atoms, molecules of space rocks (Multiply by Avocado:)s number) The most valuable (oops, no price guide) Better: The highest insured value. The greatest average weight in the 200, 500, 1000 specimen range collections. The most oriented meteorites, whole individuals, of a type, etc. The one that takes up the most floor space (that is a competition of cabinets) etc. etc. The largest means nothing. It is an ambigous construction of two words applied arbitrarily in the eye of the beholder. What is important is how satisfied the collector is. I had my biggest collection when I got my first 1-2 gram Allende as a gift a long time ago. It has been great, but imperceptably downhill all the way... Apples and oranges are hard enough. But when everyone has a bushel of mixed fruits largest is just an empty boast. Saludos, Doug En un mensaje con fecha 04/21/2005 9:14:33 PM Mexico Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribe: Hi Tracy, When talking about large private collections, in general they really off the radar of what most collectors think is a large collection. For example I have the catalog of a collecting friend of mine. The collection has well over 1000 location represented with more than 300 of them witnessed falls. Many of the pieces are over 100g, and numberous drifting up to or over 1kg. There are also many main masses, and rather large pieces of ultra rare types including howardites over 100g and ureilites over 50g. SNCs in the 20-200g size and three eucrites over 1kg mixed in with many others in the 10s to 100s of grams. Twenty-nine carbonaceous chondrites are listed, many over 100g. Oh,and out of the 1100+ locations, I count only 7 specimens listed as from NWA or the Sahara. I also only count 3 specimens under 1g. So I guess if you have millions of dollars and loads of time, a private citizen can build a collection competitive with most museums. But for many of us, we wi ll just have to settle for nice regional collections. But is all this really the point of collecting? Ok, maybe. Cheers, Martin - Original Message - From: tracy latimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, April 21, 2005 6:39 pm Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Largest collection criteria I'd like to think that I have a fairly good-sized collection from sheer diversity, despite the fact that almost none of my collection is larger than 5 grams. I have over 150 unique falls or finds, mostly in micro specimens. My criteria are very simple: Do I have a specimen of this find or fall? Of course, I'd prefer to pick up a micro of Portales Valley or Weston rather than an L6 NWA, but other than that, anything goes. Tracy Latimer I'd think that if you are speaking of the largest, you'd have to measure the volume of the collection. I'd think a stone slightly bigger than a similar size iron would be co nsidered the larger of the two. That could be problematic though, so you could use the weight of two collections with simlar stone/iron weight ratios. What was Marvin's...4 tons? Anyone have any idea how much Bob Haag's collection weighs? If you're talking about most diverse, it would be the number of unique types of specimens. If you're talking about most valuable, then it would require measurement against a common price list. Quality would be much more subjective other than the obvious (a ton of weathered NWAs certainly wouldn't compare to a ton of historic falls). Regards to all, Phil __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Relpax Meteorite Paperweight, Unusual Promotional Item
That was well worth the time to check it out!!! Wish I had one[paperweight not migraine] Jerry - Original Message - From: MARK BOSTICK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 1:33 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Relpax Meteorite Paperweight, Unusual Promotional Item Hello list, Relpax, a miagraine pill, released a promotional paperweightthat is easier to show then describe. http://www.meteoritearticles.com/colpaperweghtrelpax.html Clear Skies, Mark Bostick www.meteoritearticles.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NPA 01-03-1821 Possible Lixna MeteoriteFallarticle
times of war effect falls and finds With all the comotion a war produces, it's not surprising that people might overlook the roar, thunder and flash of a simple meteorite?! Jerry - Original Message - From: MARK BOSTICK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NPA 01-03-1821 Possible Lixna MeteoriteFallarticle Martin asked Mark, regarding the dates: Lixna fell on July 12, 1820; the St. Petersburg date is Sept. 18 (1820?), and the Paper date is January 3, 1821. Is my assumption correct that the Republic Compiler running a translated story from the St. Petersburg, Russia newspaper? That is correct Martin. The newspaper has two news notes under the Sept. 18, St. Peterburg date. The other was not meteorite related so I left it off. In 1820-21 European newspapers came to America by boat (of course). Three months apprears to be normal news travel time, although I should sometime make a comparison in how fast meteorite news traveled. Getting a little off subject, I don't think times of war affect this much as there seem to me a lack of war time finds and falls. Or at least it seems to me there should be war time falls, as one would think people would be outside more often. I have had trouble locating Civil War era meteor and meteorite papers while the years around the Civil War, they seem more common. Then again as my archives grow perhaps I will find this to be untrue. Ok, now off to lunchhmm...food, Mark www.meteoritearticles.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NPA 11-19-1908 Quinn Canyon (1st Nevada) MeteoriteFound
Mark as always these articles are a true treasure trove of fun and valuable information! Thanks for your consistent efforts to provide the List with substantive, entertaining stuff! Never deteted until fully read! Jerry - Original Message - From: MARK BOSTICK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 11:34 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] NPA 11-19-1908 Quinn Canyon (1st Nevada) MeteoriteFound Paper: Reno Evening Gazette City: Reno, Nevada Date: Thursday, November 19, 1908 Page: 3 (of 8) Big Meteorite Found on a Nevada Desert TONOPAH, Nev. Nov. 19. - A meteorite weighing about 4000 pounds was yesterday placed in the vaults of the Tonopah Banking corporation, by the purchases, Eugene Howell. The meteor was found near Goat Ranch springs, about 125 miles east of Tonopah. Professor W. P. Jenny, the geologist and mining engineer who was employed some time ago to examine the meteor, caused an assay to be made in Tonopah, and one in Rochester, New York. Both assays showed that it contained from 5 to 10 per cent of nickel, and about 90 per cent of meteoric iron. Upon sawing off a section, the Widmanstantian figures were shown very plainly. This one test proved beyond a doubt that it was a meteor. The figures are peculiar, however, in that they are grouped in different manner than usual, being equilateral triangles overlapping. The metal value of the meteor is only about $400, but as it is a most remarkable specimen, it will probably sell for many times that amount. It was found only partially imbedded in the ground, showing that it must have struck at an angle. The exposed portion of the meteor shows unmistakable evidence that it landed in a molten or semi-molten condition. This is believed to be the meteor which in 1893 passed over Candelaria going from west to east, passing over the present site of Tonopah. (end) This article refers to the Quinn Canyon meteorite. Nevada's first meteorite find. Fellow Meteorite Times columnist, Bob Vernish, has a nice web page on this meteorite, as part of his Nevada Meteorite Picture of the Day feature. http://www.geocities.com/bolidechaser/nvpod-archive/03-07-01.htm Clear Skies, Mark Bostick Wichita, Kansas http://www.meteoritearticles.com http://www.kansasmeteoritesociety.com http://www.imca.cc http://stores.ebay.com/meteoritearticles PDF copy of this article, and most I post (and about 1/2 of those on my website), is available upon e-mail request. The NPA in the subject line, stands for Newspaper Article. The old list server allowed us a search feature the current does not, so I guess this is more for quick reference and shortening the subject line now. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in Thin Section
List, I recieved my copy of Marvin's new thin section book this PM and am chaffiing at the bit to finish chores and dive into it tonight!!! It looks spectacular!! Jerry - Original Message - From: michel CN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Peter Marmet [EMAIL PROTECTED]; list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in Thin Section Hello list At last I received my copy. Marvin showed me a draft in Denver last year, I was astonished by Marvin's work. We spend some hours together talking about it and I remember Marvin telling me: I just wanted to make a simple book about Thin Sections, covering as many classes as possible, I thought I could make it in a couple of weeks, but some months later I was still working on it ! Then I was able to fill my order in Tucson. I join Peter's comment about this MAJOR Book. TKS again to D.S.Lauretta and to Marvin Killgore. After Marvin's book about his collection of meteorite, a book that any collector MUST have, this TS book is new in its category and is already another MUST. Almost all classes are represented with high quality photos. A perfect book. Best regards Michel FRANCO - Original Message - From: Peter Marmet [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 2:26 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in Thin Section Hello list, my copy of Meteorites in Thin Section by D.S.Lauretta and Marvin Killgore has just arrived. Plain and simple: Fantastic !!! If you haven't ordered a copy yet - do it quickly - you won't regret it!!! Peter Marmet To order, here's a link: http://www.meteorite-lab.com/books.htm __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] WIFE FRIENDLY METEORITE DISPLAY
Good Plan I need something!!! - Original Message - From: dean bessey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 12:16 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] WIFE FRIENDLY METEORITE DISPLAY For all of you who have wives (Or husbands) complaining that you are wasting money on meteorites here is the solution: Mix 150 kilos of NWA meteorites with flowers and trees like in this photo. http://www.meteoriteshop.com/sales/trees.jpg Add some roses growing out of the front of the rocks and she will be hounding you to buy more. Cheers DEAN __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Subject - Nigeria
I too have received this type of delete immediately boloney. Jerry - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Subject - Nigeria Hi Michael List I have received several of these myself. None of them mention the exact product that I sell or what they want to buy. They only mention that they are interested in the merchandise I sell. Also all ask if I take credit cards and if I can ship FedEx or DHL. I would guess this is so they have their merchandise before you figure out that the cc is stolen. I stay as far away as I can from these scamsters and recommend that everyone else do so as well. Mike -- Mike Jensen IMCA 4264 Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 303-337-4361 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com Hi All, Since the last survey of the list resulted in 26% of the members responding that they considered themselves meteorite dealers, I post this to the entire list: I have received six or eight inquiries from NIGERIA - all different individuals, asking weird questions about buying my products - such as: Do I ship to Nigeria? Will I take a direct bank wire, etc. The first one I tried to accommodate, but then received additional inquiries from others in Nigeria. After that, I strongly suspected I was receiving some sort of spam hustle (like the never ending posts, often in all CAPS, about some widow from some obscure country who's dead husband left her 26.8 million dollars and if I would just let her wire it to my bank account she would happily give me 5% or the like). As a result, I am no longer responding to any inquiries from Nigeria. In any event, I wonder if others on this list who have commercial web sites have been getting multiple enigmatic posts from Nigeria? Best wishes, Michael -- You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. -Herb Cohen -- If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Catalog of the Vatican State Meteorite Collection
Thank you Martin, I vaguely remember this info from a post during Pope Paul's illness but this reminder should be valuable to all open minded list members. Jerry--- Original Message - From: Martin Horejsi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 4:44 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Catalog of the Vatican State Meteorite Collection Howdy Folks and Others, Thank you Bernd for the helpful links. And for those who have not yet read Brother Guy's books, might I suggest reading 'Brother Astronomer' (which I believe O. Richard Norton reviewed for the journal Meteorite of which Brother Guy has stared on the cover) and 'Turn Left at Orion'. The Vatican Meteorite Collection essentially came into formal existence in 1905 when Adrien-Charles, Marquis de Mauroy made a donation of 158 meteorite specimens to Pope Pius X. The Marquis had been instrumental in providing the Vatican an extensive collection of minerals prior to the first contribution of meteorites. The first catalogue of the Vatican's meteorites appeared in 1912, and the collection has grown over the years primarily through generous donations. I believe the collection is still housed in the Vatican Observatory at Castle Gandolfo. And due to the nature of the meteorite's ownership, it is, of course, considered a private collection. I hope this posting helps clarify the misinformation currently in circulation. Cheers, Martin On Apr 20, 2005, at 1:44 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, http://utenti.lycos.it/Meteoriteman/index.htmlVATICAN Just got a private mail from List member Matteo that he is the author of that site and that he will publish an updated version as soon as possible. Thank you, Matteo! Hello Tom, We should refrain from saying or writing things that may or might or probably surely will hurt somebody else's feelings, in this case religious feelings or religious beliefs. Let's keep the Pope Thread off this list. I am a Protestant, not Catholic but I am with Mike Farmer on this topic: That is not a meteorite topic. Brother Consolmagno, whom most of us know (not in person), is the curator of the Vatican State Meteorite Collection, and we may assume that he and / or his predecessors legally acquired these meteorites through trades and purchases. God is not going to give the pope anything That's once again a very personal perspective that I won't comment on. But here's a personal comment from Brother Consolmagno regarding meteorites that I like very much because it connects religion and science: by seeing how God created the universe I get a flavor of God's personality. More about Brother Consolmagno here: http://clavius.as.arizona.edu/vo/R1024/GConsolmagno.html and about Vatican Science (including meteorites): http://www.acfnewsource.org/science/vatican_science.html Best wishes, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Timing is Everything
Thanks Kevin, it helps clarify[slightly] an issue that's screaming for investigation. Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 4:52 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Timing is Everything Thanks to Mike Jensen for the heads-up on the paper newly published by Dr. Jeff Grossman and Adrian Brearley refining the measurement of classification for chondrites. In the last couple of days, including today, I've been working on a feature for Meteorite magazine that includes discussions I had with Dr. Brigitte Zanda, the curator of the NHM met collection in Paris about her research in chondrule formation. We talked about her discovery of chondrules in a plastic state during formation in Semarkona LL3.0, perhaps the most primitive chondrite. The most obvious point here is that chondrules were observed in formation that are not spheres. It's an exciting discovery in today's most happenin' meteorite research area - the origins of chondrules. You can read more of this discussion in Meteorite come August. One side area of interest with all this, is that petrology is now determined by using thermaluminesence. This technique is a bit more sophisticated than when one looks at a slice of something and expertly guesses, Oh, that looks like a L5. A discussion has risen about thermaluminesence measuring because it's possible that terrestrial weathering can alter the outcome of a pre-terrestrial event, changing what observers think is a most primitive 3.0 to a 3.2 or 3.4. On my first quick read of this (I have a meeting in 30 minutes), Jeff and Adrian's paper seems to propose extremely accurate measuring of petrology in type 1 chondrules by combining electron microscopy and cathodoluminescence in their observations. The resultant measurements would be several times more accurate than present thermaluminesence techniques, i.e. resulting in petrology's of 3.05, 3.10, etc., instead of just 3.0 or 3.2. However, I'm assuming that cathodoluminescence (can't type that too many times without misspelling) is different from thermaluminesence (and I'm sure someone will soon let me know if it isn't - smiley face here). But this is great work and seems to me to be exciting news. Kevin Kichinka __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Announces Key Genesis Science Collectors inExcellent Shape
Great news Ron and List!! Jerry - Original Message - From: Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 5:05 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Announces Key Genesis Science Collectors inExcellent Shape Dolores Beasley Headquarters, Washington April 20, 2005 (Phone: 202/358-1753) William Jeffs Johnson Space Center, Houston (Phone: 281/483-5111) Nancy Ambrosiano Los Alamos National Laboratory, N.M. (Phone: 505/667-0471) RELEASE: 05-102 NASA ANNOUNCES KEY GENESIS SCIENCE COLLECTORS IN EXCELLENT SHAPE Scientists have closely examined four Genesis spacecraft collectors, vital to the mission's top science objective, and found them in excellent shape, despite the spacecraft's hard landing last year. Scientists at NASA's Johnson Space Center (JSC) in Houston removed the four solar-wind collectors from an instrument called the concentrator. The concentrator targets collected solar-oxygen ions during the Genesis mission. Scientists will analyze them to measure solar-oxygen isotopic composition, the highest-priority measurement objective for Genesis. The data may hold clues to increase understanding about how the solar system formed. Taking these concentrator targets out of their flight holders and getting our first visual inspection of them is very important, said Karen McNamara, Genesis curation recovery lead. This step is critical to moving forward with the primary science Genesis was intended to achieve. All indications are the targets are in excellent condition. Now we will have the opportunity to show that quantitatively. The preliminary assessment of these materials is the first step to their allocation and measurement of the composition of the solar wind, she said. The targets were removed at JSC by a team from Los Alamos National Laboratory, Los Alamos, N.M., where the concentrator was designed and built. Finding these concentrator targets in excellent condition after the Genesis crash was a real miracle, said Roger Wiens, principal investigator for the Los Alamos instruments. It raised our spirits a huge amount the day after the impact. With the removal of the concentrator targets this week, we are getting closer to learning what these targets will tell us about the sun and our solar system, he added. The Los Alamos team was assisted by JSC curators and Quality Assurance personnel from NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. Curators at JSC will examine the targets and prepare a detailed report about their condition, so scientists can properly analyze the collectors. The targets will be imaged in detail and then stored under nitrogen in the Genesis clean room. Genesis was launched Aug. 8, 2001, from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Fla., on a mission to collect solar wind particles. Sample collection began Dec. 5, 2001, and was completed April 1, 2004. After an extensive recovery effort, following its Sept. 8, 2004, impact at a Utah landing site, the first scientific samples from Genesis arrived at JSC Oct. 4, 2004. Still imagery of scientists removing the concentrator targets is available at: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/genesis/multimedia/gen_team_images.html Video to accompany this release will air on the NASA TV Video File at 3 p.m. EDT today. NASA TV is available on the Web and via satellite in the continental U.S. on AMC-6, Transponder 9C, C-Band, at 72 degrees west longitude. The frequency is 3880.0 MHz. Polarization is vertical, and audio is monaural at 6.80 MHz. It's available in Alaska and Hawaii on AMC-7, Transponder 18C, C-Band, at 137 degrees west longitude. The frequency is 4060.0 MHz. Polarization is vertical, and audio is monaural at 6.80 MHz. For more information about the Genesis mission on the Web, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/genesis -end- __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Very OT: New pope selected
You're forgiven Brethren Ryan, Jerry - Original Message - From: RYAN PAWELSKI [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 3:55 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Very OT: New pope selected ...and as a Bavarian he has a large heart. Hopefully not an enlarged heart from too many Bratwursts and Schnitzel. ) Sorry, I couldn't resist. Please forgive me. Ryan -Original Message- From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Apr 19, 2005 1:06 PM To: Matson, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED], meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Very OT: New pope selected Well, he's so conservative, but don't be afraid, he was my bishop in Munich and as a Bavarian he has a large heart. And today it's Einstein's jubilee and I visited the same school in Munich as he did, sooo omens and wonders, you all better should bid on the solidarity meteorite for Lars (who is at the moment at half a Bessey price). Buckleboo! Martin - Original Message - From: Matson, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 7:09 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Very OT: New pope selected Quick message for those that hadn't heard -- Joseph Ratzinger from Germany (who just had his 78th birthday three days ago) is the next pope. He's chosen the name Benedict XVI. -Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] SA Weenies
A keen sence of humor Jerry - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] SA Weenies At least the one I am selling has been circumcised! It displays a very rare type of orientation. As it burned through the atmosphere it also rotated on a second axis and is double ringed. Kind Regards, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] SA Weenies
WOW THAT SOUNDS UNDULY HOSTILE. JERRY - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:38 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] SA Weenies You meant to be crude and you continue to do so. You aren't pretty sure about anything. Call the lunar team and calm down. I'll bet there aren't any women on that team. Bill -- Original message -- From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sorry, did not mean to be so crude. It would make an awesome necklace for that special women. I am pretty sure it could be worn proudly at the Tucson show. This is a very cool example of orientation though. All the best, Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] SA Weenies Disgusting Bill -- Original message -- From: Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] A keen sence of humor Jerry - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] SA Weenies At least the one I am selling has been circumcised! It displays a very rare type of orientation. As it burned through the atmosphere it also rotated on a second axis and is double ringed. Kind Regards, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What great hobby!!
Good thought Darren, Sounds like a sound probable explanation. Nitwits with nothing to do with meteorite collecting, time on their hands and IDLE minds[if any] Jerry - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What great hobby!! On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 16:15:27 -0700, Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree, threatening somebody physically is going way too far. It is hard for me to believe that somebody from the List or the IMCA would go so far as make these kinds of threats. Judging from the kinds of posts that cropped up on that blog (from people with obvious knowledge of the list, so it wasn't just random passers-by) I have no problem at all believing that some people reading this list, given the shroud of anonymity, would make those kinds of threats. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Nakhla Dog Updates
Cool Magnetic stands Rob! - Original Message - From: Rob Wesel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Sale - Yahoo [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Meteorite Collectors [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 9:40 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Nakhla Dog Updates Hello all- I have spent the last several hours tidying up and adding to my website. The Catalog page has been updated with more Canyon Diablo, Kilabo, and a primitive achondrite that plots on the CV mixing line (larger specimens the likes of which have not been previously offered publicly) http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com/catalog.htm The Gear page has magnetic display stands and VCI emitters http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com/gear.htm And the collection page has been fully updated with photos of Wold Cottage, Campo Sales, Kilabo, and Tatahouine http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com/collection.htm I am in the process of picking up some new material and in the mood to deal, let me know if something interests you. Rob Wesel http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - April 7, 2005
Jeff that's the best duck-billed dinosaur meteorite I ever saw! Too bad someone had to shoot it in the eye!! Jerry - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 6:11 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - April 7, 2005 http://www.spacerocksinc.com/April7.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - April 7, 2005
I second that mightily!! Jerry - Original Message - From: ROCKS ON FIRE [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 7:17 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - April 7, 2005 Hi, List, Michael and Jeff, at first I reckon it's about time for me to thank Micheal for his never ending effords in keeping us up-to-date with the latest of interesting 'Rocks From Space Picture of the Day' issues. I can hardly imagine the time and work involved keeping us entertained. So, THANKS A LOT, MATE! AND KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK! Also thanks to Jeff Kuyken for sharing THIS Sikhote Alin with us. JUST TERRIFFIC, MATE. I ENVY YOU FOR THIS ONE! Best regards from DOWN-UNDER, Norbert Heike Kammel ROCKS ON FIRE IMCA #3420 www.rocksonfire.com %3Fhttp://www.rocksonfire.com%3F __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What's this? -for the geology experts out there
Nicely done Dave!!! - Original Message - From: David Freeman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Graham Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Robert Verish [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What's this? -for the geology experts out there Dear Bob, Graham, and list; I should entitle this thread treatise on common colored stone. Throughout my rock involved history, I have come to the conclusion that picking up colored Earthly trinkets is extremely healthy for our physics. From the inquisitive child-like mind, we note the different and unusual. We strive to be different and in that, collect the different. The mind of the collector, whether young and highly inquisitive, or mature and studious all tend to look for the odd, the different, the non-normal. This thread of daring has been the spark to inventors in our culture, that all apples are red, what's with the green one symbolism. As we evolve to master scientists in our own amateur way, we all must not forget the pretty rock, the odd rocks that don't fit the mold, the mini cooper of the mineral world if you will as collecting non common specimens is a learning process for the mind. Growing out from the norm, being meteorites in our minds eye, is added to by the excitement of an unusual specimen of a different nature. It truly adds to our world of appreciation to hastily grab up that odd rock as if we were all self reserved to only collecting the norm, it would be a very boring and unstimulating world in deed. It is always better to arrive home with special, unusual rocks than to return home empty handed from a day of searching for manna from heaven and to have arrive a little short with an empty sack. Treatise your rocks with compassion! Dave Freeman Rock Springs, WY Graham Christens wrote: Brother Bob, that is a fine specimen of probably exactly what I have and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one picking up every odd coloured rock and dragging it home. Thanks for showing that. And here is an in-situ image showing where I found my green rock Haha! If only! I can probably borrow someone's grinder maybe tomorrow or dig though some boxes and find my dremel tool to cut off a piece. I agree that it's hard to tell with a rough stone like that. Later this month a professor of martian geology at the University of Alberta is taking me on a tour of the meteorite collection there so I will take this rock along when I go and see what he thinks as well. Wouldn't I be emabarassed if I was wrong, and my wrong wasn't? Nope, I would imagine that you would be too busy being ecstatic about pulling off the impossible...again! Oh well, all is not lost. I DID find a chunk of garnet today :-) (at least I think that's what it is) http://www.geocities.com/aerolitehunter/garnet.jpg Seeing as how it's 7 AM, I think it's about time I went to bed. Goodnight all and happy hunting! Green rock picker-upper 4 life, Graham ~ Graham Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/aerolitehunter msn messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Robert Verish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 6:00 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] What's this? -for the geology experts out there Hello Brother Graham and List, http://marzmeteorite.tripod.com/mars-rocks/2mars1not.jpg As you can tell from the above image, Brother Graham and I belong to the same fraternity - The Fraternal Order of Green Rock Picker-Uppers. And here is an in-situ image showing where I found my green rock: http://marzmeteorite.tripod.com/mars-rocks/MRF04996.jpg Actually, Graham, my story is much shorter than yours. I found my little shergo-not just last week, and only a few miles from my backyard. It was still sitting on top of my monitor when I read your message and saw your great looking image. It prompted me to share my image with you. And, as in your image, I placed a small slice of DaG 476 in front of my Mars-wannabe. For added effect, I placed a larger slice of the DaG 670 stone to the right of my m-wrong. As a rule, I don't hazard a guess about a rock-type based solely on an image. Too many times I've had to change my opinion about a rock-type after examining a cut surface. So, if you show me the inside of your rock, I'll show you the inside of my rock! ;-) It's true. I haven't cut my little rock, yet. And to be truthful, I haven't had it examined by an expert, so I can't say with 100% certainty that my rock is a shergo-not. Wouldn't I be emabarassed if I was wrong, and my wrong wasn't? Bob V. --- Original Message [meteorite-list] What's this? -for the geology experts out there Graham Christensen voltage at telus.net Thu Apr 7 05:21:16 EDT 2005 Hello list I've had this rock sitting on my
Re: [meteorite-list] Google Maps
WOW! Sterling, no comparision. Terraserver wins by a mile Jerry - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 11:50 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Google Maps Hi, Google maps is fun, but not terribly useful. I spent a quarter hour trying to find Manacouagan crater, to duplicate Marc's view, with atlases at my side to help me, but Google Maps refused to do it without my coughing up its postal code. Do craters have postal codes? I tried Google maps on my own house. I got a map, but no satellite view -- unavailable says Google. The locator pin icon for my house was in the right street but in the wrong block of the street. I tried Google maps on my store, in another town. Again, I got a map, but no satellite view. Again, the locator pin icon for my store was in the right street but the wrong block. Obviously, Google is interpolating locations from what is probably a postal-type database, without even cross-checking adjacent block start numbers. I reduced the zoom scale and got a satellite view covering 16 square miles, a great rolling sea of green Midwestern vegetation without a single visible road, city, or any other mark of man's presence -- it might as well have been photographed in the year 1800! It's a pretty interface and makes a great rolling road map, but it's a long way from being The Great Eye of God for us to access! It does do a fantastic job of finding the nearest pizza joint to any location, and that's just what Google wants it to do. That's what this is all about, you know. In the area around my store, there were many pin locator icons referenced to other local businesses which were also listed on the side by name and with phone numbers. My business was not among them. Hey, Google, where do I sign up? (And how much will it cost me?) TerraServer, on the other hand, is fantastic. It managed to put my house in the right block, even though at the wrong end of the block. It showed me a satellite view at highest resolution that showed a two block by two block area in which I could see my house and count the windows, despite the fuzzy grey low-contrast BW aerial photo. It did the same for my store. I tried it for my brother's house in Louisville, Kentucky, and got a stunning color view with a resolution of about 2-3 pixels per foot! You could identify cars by year and model, count mailboxes, and I could see a soccer ball in one of the front yards! Pretty impressive. Here's Terraserver's view of the Meteor Crater in Arizona at medium resolution: http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.aspx?S=14T=1lat=35.0281lon=-111.0225 Try zooming in, and you'll get excellent high-resolution close-up views right down into the crater. Count the rocks. Sterling K. Webb -- Marc Fries wrote: Howdy Ok, this is pretty cool: http://maps.google.com/ Google has developed a seamless map database that cross-links to satellite photos. I scrolled this thing from Manacouagan crater to Wetumpka crater, then out to Hawaii and visited my current home and my mom's house on the way. This is actually a pretty spectacular site for locating physical landform features and cross-referencing them to a road map. I can see my house from here! Enjoy, MDF -- Marc Fries Postdoctoral Research Associate Carnegie Institution of Washington Geophysical Laboratory 5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW Washington, DC 20015 PH: 202 478 7970 FAX: 202 478 8901 - I urge you to show your support to American servicemen and servicewomen currently serving in harm's way by donating items they personally request at: http://www.anysoldier.com (This is not an endorsement by the Geophysical Laboratory or the Carnegie Institution.) _ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What's this? -for the geology experts out there
Grahm, Robert and List, This has been one of the most refreshing threads I've had the pleasure of reading lately. As a rank beginner, I had put away my stooping at every odd looking rock as more and more(ALL) proved terra! So now I relearn from the experts that stooping is a good thing for mind, body and soul. I'll divert my gaze once more from the possible bolide I may spy in the air, to the ground where treasures await the blessed! Thanks for the free instruction. Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Graham Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Robert Verish [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What's this? -for the geology experts out there Brother Bob, that is a fine specimen of probably exactly what I have and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one picking up every odd coloured rock and dragging it home. Thanks for showing that. And here is an in-situ image showing where I found my green rock Haha! If only! I can probably borrow someone's grinder maybe tomorrow or dig though some boxes and find my dremel tool to cut off a piece. I agree that it's hard to tell with a rough stone like that. Later this month a professor of martian geology at the University of Alberta is taking me on a tour of the meteorite collection there so I will take this rock along when I go and see what he thinks as well. Wouldn't I be emabarassed if I was wrong, and my wrong wasn't? Nope, I would imagine that you would be too busy being ecstatic about pulling off the impossible...again! Oh well, all is not lost. I DID find a chunk of garnet today :-) (at least I think that's what it is) http://www.geocities.com/aerolitehunter/garnet.jpg Seeing as how it's 7 AM, I think it's about time I went to bed. Goodnight all and happy hunting! Green rock picker-upper 4 life, Graham ~ Graham Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/aerolitehunter msn messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Robert Verish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 6:00 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] What's this? -for the geology experts out there Hello Brother Graham and List, http://marzmeteorite.tripod.com/mars-rocks/2mars1not.jpg As you can tell from the above image, Brother Graham and I belong to the same fraternity - The Fraternal Order of Green Rock Picker-Uppers. And here is an in-situ image showing where I found my green rock: http://marzmeteorite.tripod.com/mars-rocks/MRF04996.jpg Actually, Graham, my story is much shorter than yours. I found my little shergo-not just last week, and only a few miles from my backyard. It was still sitting on top of my monitor when I read your message and saw your great looking image. It prompted me to share my image with you. And, as in your image, I placed a small slice of DaG 476 in front of my Mars-wannabe. For added effect, I placed a larger slice of the DaG 670 stone to the right of my m-wrong. As a rule, I don't hazard a guess about a rock-type based solely on an image. Too many times I've had to change my opinion about a rock-type after examining a cut surface. So, if you show me the inside of your rock, I'll show you the inside of my rock! ;-) It's true. I haven't cut my little rock, yet. And to be truthful, I haven't had it examined by an expert, so I can't say with 100% certainty that my rock is a shergo-not. Wouldn't I be emabarassed if I was wrong, and my wrong wasn't? Bob V. --- Original Message [meteorite-list] What's this? -for the geology experts out there Graham Christensen voltage at telus.net Thu Apr 7 05:21:16 EDT 2005 Hello list I've had this rock sitting on my kitchen table since last year when I picked it up along the side of the road while out for a walk. It is a fairly smooth green rock with black bits in it and it looks somewhat like my DAG 476 shergottite but it's a slightly lighter shade of green. I have yet to grind an end off to see what the inside looks like but there are a couple chips out of it and it looks about the same on the inside with the green part being fine grained and the black bits are individual crystals. I doubt that it is meteoritic (there is no trace of fusion crust) but I was wondering if it might be similar to a shergottite but of terrestrial origin. Here is a pic of it: http://www.geocities.com/aerolitehunter/dag476andunidentified.jpg The small slice in the forground is my DAG 476 and the big rock is of course the rock in question. I have been collecting rocks on and off in this area since I was a kid and I haven't seen anything like it but that doesn't mean much. I live in Alberta, Canada, where most of the rocks you find lying on the ground were brought down from various locations by the glaciers of the last ice age so it's kind of a potluck dinner of
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - April 7, 2005
Hey Jeff can I borrow that spanner(wrench)in the Latest batch Of Glorietta Mt. meteorites pictured on that page? Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Robert Verish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 2:48 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - April 7, 2005 Hello Jeff, Michael, and List, Thanks to Michael for posting these images and giving us all an opportunity to see them and to discuss them. And thanks to Jeff for sharing with us his great webpage with those excellent images and the well-thought explanation. In an article I wrote 2 years ago, I attempted to explain why a similar feature that I found on an oriented Glorieta Mountain iron had to be formed during its fall. An image of that Glorieta Mountain iron with an impact crater can be seen here: http://www.meteoritetimes.com/Back_Links/2003/January/Bob's_Findings.htm I wonder if there have been impact craters found on any other iron meteorites? Bob V. Original Message -- Jeff Kuyken info at meteorites.com.au Thu Apr 7 07:54:08 EDT 2005 G'day Graham, It's an interesting question. There are a couple of theories listed on the main page. http://www.meteorites.com.au/features/funkysa.html Cheers, Jeff __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Interesting Meteorite Science Article
Thanks for the response Chris. I did think about shepherding and the apparent lack there of. Strike ONE! Jerry - Original Message - From: Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 10:42 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Interesting Meteorite Science Article I don't believe there is any way a ring system could be stable in a binary planet system (which is really what the Earth/Moon is). Theories of ring system formation seem to require a fairly large system of moons to capture and shepherd debris. Also, the effects of even a sparse ring system probably would not have gone unnoticed given all the satellites in orbit- particularly geostationary ones. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Notkin [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 8:31 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Interesting Meteorite Science Article Geoff, Excuse my piggybacking. I'm unable to post directly. Is our current information sufficient to completely rule out the existence of a ring system for EARTH? Reading Harry McSween's Stardust to Planets brought back memories of John Glenn's first suborbital flight. Anyone my age or there abouts remembers his exclaiming at one point about firefly like particles streaming past his capsule, a comment that as far as I know was never publically addressed. The fact that rings exist in relation to so many of the planets which unlike Saturn, defied observation until relatively recently, gives me pause. Excuse my curiosity if it lacks sophistication. As a recent amateur meteoricist, I cannot dampen my enthusiasm for all the potential connections no matter how far fetched and unfounded they may be. An ring system consisting of extremely fine, yet undetected, particles could provide a constant source of dibris which slowed by contact with the atmosphere eventually deccelerates and plummet to earth, a constant source of IPDP [inter or intra]. My hope is that my recent memberships allows the priveledge of asking these kinds questions and getting responses from reliable sources. A decisive no with some short explaination is as welcome as any other answer for it at least acknowledges a question. Thank you for your time and consideration in advance. Jerry Flaherty __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Does this rectify negative feedback?
I have to agree Steve. Remove the negative feedbacks. but the only way to do it is if Norbert replies negatively to yours and THEN you MUTUALLY remove them. I know because I was a bonehead who left premature neatives on John Sinclair who in NO WAY deserves negative anything! Like the MAN said Be a man Steve! Jerry - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ROCKS ON FIRE [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Does this rectify negative feedback? After reading that, you wonder why the entire world hates Americans. Steve, be a man and remove those feedbacks from him. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: ROCKS ON FIRE [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 8:16 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Does this rectify negative feedback? Hello, Folks, may I ask your opinion: I listed 2 items (Haig irons) on ebay and forgot to take out Posts to Worldwide, leaving only Posts to Australia, but mentioned in the describtion Sorry, Australia only! One wellknown meteorite collector/dealer from Chicago accquired both with Buy it now option and paid straight way for them via PayPal. Now I realised the mistake, as I do not have an export permit for this meteorite and wrote this gentleman an apologetic letter and refunded the money straight away. It hit me a bit hard when I got his reply (strange wordings, read below, if you want) and saw that he had given me 2 negative feedbacks for that. I always thought we are some sort of a family and would try to sort things out - I have tried! I would very much appreciate your honest opinion in this matter, as this is the very first negative feedback on our proud 1000+ positive record. ( If you are bored you can go throught the correspondense following.) Thanks for your advise and Best regards from DOWN-UNDER, Norbert Heike Kammel ROCKS ON FIRE IMCA #3420 www.rocksonfire.com %3Fhttp://www.rocksonfire.com%3F Dear Steve, I am very sorry that you are taking this mishap so hard. I was always under the impression that you are a gentleman and would understand that we all are only human and can make mistakes. This was a honest listing mistake and my describtion also clearly stated Sorry, Australia only! I do understand that this is not much comfort for you, and I can only offer you my humble apologies, and I am sorry to loosing you as a good customer. But I am also sorry to having you mistakenly categorised as collector-buddy and friend. If you take a deep breeze and put yourself into my position, Would you take the risk for some $ 30 bucks to having the Fed's snooping through every corner of your property, getting dragged to court and being punished with a severe penalty? You don't seem to be so stupid, so I assume you will take my point. Yes, Steve, you paid straight away for these pieces via PayPal, which you always do and what I always appreciated. And I refunded you the money via PayPal straight away and asked you, if I can do anything for you, as I reckoned I would owe you one. I guess this straighten this out. I still have to obey to the law here in Australia, and if you are suggesting that the meteorite community in America bluntly can ignore the law over there, I believe you are very much mistaken. I am also sure that most Americans uphold the law. I still believe that we can solve this little dispute between us. But if you prefer to put it onto the billboard, to the list or where ever, I can't stop you, feel free! At last: I will not take your expression of your phony selling technikes. For this you will give me an explanation and take it back. If you want to do anything with eBay, that's fine with me, go ahead! I apologised to you for having made a honest mistake and thought you would take it as a gentleman. But if you reckon that you are the only unfailable man in the world and that the law is only there when it suits you, when you cannot see a genuine mistake, Sorry, Mate, you then certainly lost me! Best regards from DOWN-UNDER, Norbert Heike Kammel ROCKS ON FIRE IMCA #3420 www.rocksonfire.com %3Fhttp://www.rocksonfire.com%3F Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! wrote: I am really pissed off at you for this.I legally paid for those 2 items.It was on ebay and that is legal purchaing.It does not matter where in this god forsaken world it is.And I REALLY DO NOT CARE FOR YOUR STUPID EXPORT LAW.We don't have that over in the greatest country in the world.I paid for those pieces legally and I should get them.I am going to file a grievance to ebay on your phony selling techniques.You do not see any other countrys with this stupid export laws.HOW STUPID CAN A COUNTRY BE???.Meteorites run thru the usa like water in a siv.I am sorry to do this norbert.But what you are doing is totally ILLEGAL by any means.You have lost me as a customer.I have never been
Re: [meteorite-list] Interesting Meteorite Science Article
Thanks Walter, I guess I'm showing my age. I now remember that explaination. Strike TWO! Jerry - Original Message - From: Walter Branch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Interesting Meteorite Science Article Hi Gerald, capsule, a comment that as far as I know was never publically addressed. They were water ice crystals which had formed on the outside of the spacecraft. They were seen on subsequent spaceflights as well. The source of the water was from the heat exchange process which cooled the astronauts spacesuits and urine, which prompted a famous quote from Wally Schirra about the constellation urion. -Walter Branch __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Interesting Meteorite Science Article
Geoff, Excuse my piggybacking. I'm unable to post directly. Is our current information sufficient to completely rule out the existence of a ring system for EARTH? Reading Harry McSween's Stardust to Planets brought back memories of John Glenn's first suborbital flight. Anyone my age or there abouts remembers his exclaiming at one point about firefly like particles streaming past his capsule, a comment that as far as I know was never publically addressed. The fact that rings exist in relation to so many of the planets which unlike Saturn, defied observation until relatively recently, gives me pause. Excuse my curiosity if it lacks sophistication. As a recent amateur meteoricist, I cannot dampen my enthusiasm for all the potential connections no matter how far fetched and unfounded they may be. An ring system consisting of extremely fine, yet undetected, particles could provide a constant source of dibris which slowed by contact with the atmosphere eventually deccelerates and plummet to earth, a constant source of IPDP [inter or intra]. My hope is that my recent memberships allows the priveledge of asking these kinds questions and getting responses from reliable sources. A decisive no with some short explaination is as welcome as any other answer for it at least acknowledges a question. Thank you for your time and consideration in advance. Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Notkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:03 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Interesting Meteorite Science Article Dear Listees: Greetings from sunny Tucson. I'd like to draw your attention to an extremely interesting meteorite science/biology crossover article in the current online issue of Bio Science News: http://www.biosciencenews.netfirms.com/news_stories/8802_33-2005.htm Regards to all, Geoff N. www.notkin.net www.paleozoic.org __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bensour Breccia Thin Section Photographs
Mark, I hope you'll pardon my piggybacking this note but for some reason I can't post directly to the List. I just received a Saratov thin section from Jeff Rowell. For those of you who are familiar with Jeff's work, it will come as no surprise that it is stunning beyond words and that's under natural light with a mere 20x hand lens! I'm looking forward to viewing it with my scope using plane and crossed polarizers. Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: MARK BOSTICK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:59 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Bensour Breccia Thin Section Photographs Hello List, I have a few Bensour thin section photographs on my website shown here. http://www.meteoritearticles.com/colbensour.html While less visible in hand specimens, Bensour is a very nice breccia. It is also neet as most pieces over 50 grams have skip marks. The good kind...:-) Clear Skies, Mark Bostick Wichita, Kansas www.meteoritearticles.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bensour Breccia Thin Section Photographs
List, I'd be interested in picking up a small, relatively inexpensive piece of Saratov. Thanks Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MARK BOSTICK [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bensour Breccia Thin Section Photographs Mark, I hope you'll pardon my piggybacking this note but for some reason I can't post directly to the List. I just received a Saratov thin section from Jeff Rowell. For those of you who are familiar with Jeff's work, it will come as no surprise that it is stunning beyond words and that's under natural light with a mere 20x hand lens! I'm looking forward to viewing it with my scope using plane and crossed polarizers. Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: MARK BOSTICK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:59 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Bensour Breccia Thin Section Photographs Hello List, I have a few Bensour thin section photographs on my website shown here. http://www.meteoritearticles.com/colbensour.html While less visible in hand specimens, Bensour is a very nice breccia. It is also neet as most pieces over 50 grams have skip marks. The good kind...:-) Clear Skies, Mark Bostick Wichita, Kansas www.meteoritearticles.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Michael Casper is a thief
Hey the enemy of my enemy is my friend - Original Message - From: M come Meteorite Meteorites [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 1:07 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Michael Casper is a thief if is for this we are waiting from Casper over $16,000 for the piece of DaG 489 never pay from himCasper its a thief and a liar. Matteo --- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, This is to inform the meteorite community that I am hereby filing a lawsuit against Michael I Casper. During the Tucson show, he requested $1000 in meteorites from me in a hurry, I had to express mail them to him. He did not like what I sent, wanted a little more, and so I express mailed him another package. His credit card was charged by Blaine Reed (as I did not have the machine). He complained to Blaine and Blaine immediately refunded his charges. He disposed of my material then refused to pay, cant send the material back as he no longer has it, and I (to settle the argument) discounted the meteorites to $700.00 which he agreed to ( I can show the agreement). He now just called me and said he would not pay me a penny. So now I will file a civil suit against him. Anyone who does business with Michael Casper, let this be a warning, you will get screwed. Michael Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ ___ Nuovo Yahoo! Messenger: E' molto più divertente: Audibles, Avatar, Webcam, Giochi, Rubrica. Scaricalo ora! http://it.messenger.yahoo.it __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Michael Casper is a thief
who'd a thought? - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 11:41 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Michael Casper is a thief Hey the enemy of my enemy is my friend guess that would make Mike Farmer and Matteo best buddies then, huh? wierd. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Liquid water photographed on Mars
Best of the Day Jerry - Original Message - From: Graham Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 4:12 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Liquid water photographed on Mars http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap050401.html APRIL FOOLS!!! ~ Graham Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/aerolitehunter msn messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Interesting Meteorite Science Article
Extrodinary supposition! wouldn't that be remarkable Original Message - From: Notkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 1:03 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Interesting Meteorite Science Article Dear Listees: Greetings from sunny Tucson. I'd like to draw your attention to an extremely interesting meteorite science/biology crossover article in the current online issue of Bio Science News: http://www.biosciencenews.netfirms.com/news_stories/8802_33-2005.htm Regards to all, Geoff N. www.notkin.net www.paleozoic.org __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mars Global Surveyor Images - March 24-30, 2005
Yes indeed, thank you, Ron. I'm happy to learn I'm not the only one who looks foward to your posts. Jerry - Original Message - From: Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 8:15 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Global Surveyor Images - March 24-30, 2005 MARS GLOBAL SURVEYOR IMAGES March 24-30, 2005 The following new images taken by the Mars Orbiter Camera (MOC) on the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft are now available: o Becquerel Dunes and Layers (Released 24 March 2005) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2005/03/24/ o Chasma Boreale (Released 25 March 2005) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2005/03/25/ o Herschel Dunes (Released 26 March 2005) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2005/03/26/ o North Polar Layers (Released 27 March 2005) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2005/03/27/ o Ejecta Boulders (Released 28 March 2005) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2005/03/28/ o Mars at Ls 176 Degrees (Released 29 March 2005) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2005/03/29/ o Dunes of the North (Released 30 March 2005) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2005/03/30/ All of the Mars Global Surveyor images are archived here: http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/index.html Mars Global Surveyor was launched in November 1996 and has been in Mars orbit since September 1997. It began its primary mapping mission on March 8, 1999. Mars Global Surveyor is the first mission in a long-term program of Mars exploration known as the Mars Surveyor Program that is managed by JPL for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, DC. Malin Space Science Systems (MSSS) and the California Institute of Technology built the MOC using spare hardware from the Mars Observer mission. MSSS operates the camera from its facilities in San Diego, CA. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory's Mars Surveyor Operations Project operates the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft with its industrial partner, Lockheed Martin Astronautics, from facilities in Pasadena, CA and Denver, CO. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] thin section preperation - try 2
Hi, Jeff Rowell produces quality thin sections. Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:25 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] thin section preperation - try 2 Does anyone know where I can go to get microprobe ready thinsections made up by a fast, reliable souce? This is the second time I posted this email to the list, I havent seen my first posting show up after a day, appologies in advance if the first one went through and i just didnt get a copy of it. TIA __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] thin section preperation - try 2
Try [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:25 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] thin section preperation - try 2 Does anyone know where I can go to get microprobe ready thinsections made up by a fast, reliable souce? This is the second time I posted this email to the list, I havent seen my first posting show up after a day, appologies in advance if the first one went through and i just didnt get a copy of it. TIA __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] FW: Lunar origin of tektites
AH HAH !! - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 9:59 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] FW: Lunar origin of tektites On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 21:29:56 -0500, tett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But, Could this be ablated material from a meteorite that did make it to earth? I would guess no. I see this thin layer of glass vaporizing as it is created. I don't think the physics are there to support this material Well, I gather that the major component of tektites is quartz-- and that quartz is very rare in meteorites. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] An alternative origin of tektites
We live in exciting times! Jerry - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Graham Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] An alternative origin of tektites Hi, Graham, List. The notion derives from the curious history of the Chant Trace. On February 9, 1913, there were a huge rash of fireball reports stretching from far Western Canada (Regina) across to upper New York state and New York City itself. The numbers of reports were in the hundreds or thousands, and they were of trains of multiple fireballs that passed overhead, followed by more trains of multiple fireballs, followed by more trains of multiple fireballs, a show lasting 10-15 minutes at a time. This is highly unusual, to put it mildly. A Canadian astronomer named Chant investigated it at length and was able to plot a great circle path for these events and to determine that the reports were chronologically compatible, that is, in correct sequence. He concluded that there actually had been a train of hundreds of fireballs chasing themselves across North America. He even found reports from ships at sea, as far away as the South Atlantic off Brazil, that matched up. He published his results in the Journal of the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada in 1913, but he never explained what would cause such a remarkable event. It is now referred to as the Chant Trace. In the 1950's, John O'Keefe jumped on the obvious conclusion (which hopefully the sharp ones among us have already guessed) that the only way to account for this was the decay of an object from low earth orbit! He conducted a search of 8,000 local newspapers across the US and Canada for reports of such fireball trains and plotted the results on the map. He discovered that there TWO stripes of fireball trains, parallel to each other but with the second one displaced to the south. Whatever the decaying object was, it survived through TWO passes of the Earth's atmosphere. This argues a substantial object, big, massing millions of pounds, caught in an gravitationally bound geocentric orbit! Now, it may have been a fresh capture, an object that approaches the Earth at low encounter velocities, glazes the atmosphere, is captured, and immediately decays and breaks up, in which the Earth has a second moon for a couple of hours. OR, it could be the final moments of a second moon that has been in place, undetected, for thousands or millions of years. An object of a few hundred meters diameter would never have been detected directly by XIXth century astronomy. But there are all those anomalous transit events from XIXth century astronomers, you know, often touted as proof of the discovery of a new planet, intra-Mercurian. There is a famous case of such a detection during a solar eclipse which didn't pan out, and so forth. Check discoveries of Vulcan. (No, not that Vulcan, Trekites!) O'Keefe coined the term Cyrillids for such objects, but it never caught on. He proposed that the decay of short term natural satellites of a silicate composition was the source of tektites, that the Earth had had four such moons in the last 35 million years, each one creating a tektite strewn field in its final decay, a perfectly good dynamic conclusion, but, you know, folks didn't take to the notion of a lot of extra moons! The idea was revived in the past 20 years by somebody whose name I can't remember, who threw in the notion of rings, also dynamically possible. That's probably the article you saw. I recall a popular article from the mid-80's that was illustrated with an artist's rendering of a tropical island night scene looking out over the ocean with the Earth's Rings arcing across the sky! Personally, I like it. Why should Saturn have all the fun? Sterling Webb Graham Christensen wrote: I read an article in the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada journal that said that the Earth once had a ring of tektites or a system of rings around it and when the supercontinent pangea formed, the earth's gravitational field became lop-sided and the tektite material in the ring ended up in an orbital resonance with pangea and the tektites formed a clump or ring arc that was directly over pangea at perigee. When pangea broke up, the resonance dissapeared and the ring arc's orbit began to decay The shape and distribution of the australasian tektite strewnfield and the ablasion characteristics of the tektites is consistent with a ring arc's orbit decaying and eventually bringing the material crashing to earth at a low angle. Furthermore, the tektites associated with the chesapeake bay crater may in fact have been dragged down by the impactor's gravitational field as it passed through or near the rings and this may be the case with other tektite fields as well. I have
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: If Park Forest Fell In 2005?
Happy Easter back at you Ryan! and to all who celebrate Easter on the List as well. Jerry - Original Message - From: RYAN PAWELSKI [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 12:46 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: If Park Forest Fell In 2005? Just think, if the Park Forest meteorite had fallen this year instead of two years ago, kids would be outside with they're parents on Easter morning hunting for meteorites instead of eggs and chocolate! Man O' Man, what fun that would have been! Now thats what I call an Easter eeg hunt! Too bad there isn't a fall on Easter Eve every year. I'd feel like a kid all over again, not being able to sleep that night, too excited while waiting in pure anticipation to see what the Easter Bunny had left. I guess we can all dream, can't we? And speaking of dreams and candy, it reminds me of Willy Wonkas famous quote that Rob Wesel uses for the signature at the bottom of his emails. We are the music makers...and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Maybe next year we'll all be out there on Easter morning hunting for egg-shaped meteorites with shells made of fresh black fusion crust. Mmmm. Oh boy, have I completely lost my mind or what? LOL Happy Early Easter Everybody! Ryan __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Hale-Bopp: The Comet That Doesn't Quit
WHAT? - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 8:18 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Hale-Bopp: The Comet That Doesn't Quit On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:44:29 -0800 (PST), Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For JPL internal use only. Wow, we're getting the super-secret insider info now! astronomical units from the Sun. On January 8th MIT astronomers Andrew S. Rivkin and Richard P. Binzel observed the comet with Magellan Observatory's 6.5-meter Clay telescope in Chile. Here's the photo that they took: http://www.sfgate.com/offbeat/buzzcuts/marshall1.jpg __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Large Meteorite Impacts III book
Dirk and list The shipping was free at Blackwell's in USA! Jerry - Original Message - From: drtanuki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large Meteorite Impacts III book Dear Gerald and List, The shipping from GSA to overseas is $5.00; and from my checking Blackwells shipping cost was more, even for those living in the USA. Sincerely, Dirk Ross..Tokyo __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] campos sales sale
GREAT MOVIE not so great post?! - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 10:43 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] campos sales sale On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 19:28:11 -0700, Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It will never end, accept it. We are in another movie called Groundhog Day Where the day repeated itself without end. Mike Farmer Phil? Phil Connors? Phil Connors, I thought that was you! Now don't you tell me you don't remember me 'cause I sure as heckfire remember you! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] campos sales sale
I agree Frank. There's an awful lot of traffic. Steve might like it. You know, any publicity is good publicity. I certainly want to meet the guy! Jerry - Original Message - From: Frank Prochaska [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 2:01 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] campos sales sale I try not to post much unless I really think I have something to contribute, but I have to say I'm with Thomas Webb on this one. I sort through and delete anything I don't want to keep from this list several times a day, so I can't do statistics on this myself. Has anyone else tracked how many messages are posted to the list complaining about Steve posting too much to the list? Is it 2x Steve's posts? Is it 3x? I am certainly less concerned or annoyed sorting through his posts than the posts from a number of others on the list, and if anything I think his enthusiasm is refreshing, as is his tendency not to get drawn into responding in kind to personal attacks on the list. If folks are really interested in 'putting meaning behind the words used' in posts, Steve has plenty of company there as well. This is an unmoderated (is that a word?) list, as we have all discussed many times. This is how unmoderated lists work. It makes some sense to respond to dramatically inappropriate posts, but I honestly don't see how Steve's qualify. Frank Prochaska -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of devon slater Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 10:36 AM To: Thomas Webb; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] campos sales sale Thomas and List- While I agree that Steve has not hurt anyone, you must see that he brings alot of this on himself. When he 'VOWS' to not post again about this and then almost immediately posts twice to the list, what does he expect. He swore he would 'NEVER' sell his Haag pieces and had them on ebay (how much more public a forum could he choose?), the next day. If he wished to be left alone he would not demand the attention he gets in response to his his ridiculous posts. You must believe that Steve really doesn't care what anyone thinks as this is an established behavior since he joined the list. If any of this mattered to him, he would simply realize that many of us on the list actually put meaning behind the words we use and just assume that others do as well. But until then... Devon Slater --- Thomas Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: List Members, Why not just leave the guy alone? Has he hurt anyone? He seems to follow rule number 9 of the general list policies by placing the word 'sale' in the subject line. Very few others do this, and we have a lot of repeated posts of sales going on, usually without complaints. Most of us like to check out what is being offered by list members but if we don't want to, all we have to do is press that 'delete' key. Best, Thomas __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ebay experiment - Conclusion
sorry being new I wasn't aware of that rule Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ebay experiment - Conclusion Hello meteorite-list members, I.M.C.A. administration has made it clear in the past that I.M.C.A business should be discussed at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and not here. Why the double standard? If I.M.C.A has to post here they should at least begin the subject line with AD. Bill -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Everybody, First let me thank all who participated in the experiment, your help was/is appreciated. And all your emails were too. Whether you agreed or not. Second, let me repeat what I said in my last post. I don't know if this has ever been tried, so I don't know what Bay's response will be, however I / we believe it is worth a try because Authenticity is so important to us and because we hate to see a newcomer get scammed. Now, did that new tactic work? Apparently not, his auctions are still running and he does have buyers. In the mean time, we, the IMCA Board of Directors, we will go back to what we were doing, finishing the ByLaws (we plan on asking members to elect additional board members this year), planning and sorting ideas for a new and better web site. We, of course, are very willing to listen to your suggestions. Again, thanks to everybody for helping with this experiment. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] President, I.M.C.A. Inc. www.IMCA.cc __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ibitira in thin section
Marvelous description Bernd. Readable textbook!! I've printed it out as a keeper. I'll try to apply it to other thin sections down the road. It is, after all, much more fun to be able to identify the characters responsible for the OOH's and AHH's in any wintessed drama !! Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 4:41 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Ibitira in thin section Hello Listees, Listoids, List, The noncumulate, unbrecciated, monomict Ibitira eucrite with its mm-sized gas holes or vesicles has always been on my wish list (see O.R. Norton, p. 153 Cambridge Encyclopedia of Meteorites for a breathtaking slice measuring about 10 by 10 cm in size). So I was more than happy when Michael Cottingham offered a small but very characteristic slice of 0.21 grams for sale some time ago that I immediately purchased from him. Not long ago, Michael Blood offered 3 Ibitira thin sections, one of which I acquired, as this would be the ideal complement to my little slice and it even looked so similar -- almost as if it had been cut from the same piece. Today, when I looked at my Ibitira thin section under crossed polars and with several different magnifications, there were many oohs and aahs at the spectacular, colorful Ca-poor pyroxenes (pigeonite) most of which are crossed by countless parallel, fine laths of Ca-rich augite (so-called exsolution lamellae). The pyroxenes account for about 60% of my thin section, the second most abundant phase is, of course, plagioclase (grayish-white because it is chemically zoned). These plagioclase crystals show undulatory extinction when you rotate the section under your microscope with polars crossed. There are also several opaque inclusions throughout the section (they look black both in transmitted light and under crossed polars). According to the literature, they are ilmenite (CaTiO3), chromite (FeCr2O4), FeNi-metal and troilite. Ibitira is also said to contain the silica polymorph tridymite (SiO2) but I haven't been able to locate these laths yet as I've never looked for tridymite before. These laths can be as long as 7 mm (in NWA 1181) but are usually about 1 mm in length. Best Eucritic Wishes, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Allende, the new drug of 2005?
OH never mind HA HA HA good - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tom Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED]; met list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 6:45 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Allende, the new drug of 2005? Hi, The lithium content of meteorites is pretty low. The organics in a carbonaceous are too small in molecular weight to be psychoactive. Guess it's just a case of meteorite happiness. Like substituting meteorite for horse in the famous Ronald Regan quote, The outside of a horse is good for the inside of a man. Except that it only happens when you cut them, so maybe it's the inside of a meteorite is good for... O, never mind! Sterling Webb -- Tom Knudson wrote: With all the ingredients in Allende, is it possible there is something in there that could work as an anti-depressant? Tom __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Allende, the new drug of 2005?
Better!!! - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MarkF [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteor list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 7:01 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Allende, the new drug of 2005? oh, oh, I got one... like wow! that Allende stuff is FARout man can ya dig it? ;\ Tom...have you checked your furnace for CO ? -- Original message from MarkF [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -- its a holistic thing hehehehehe - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb To: Tom Knudson ; met list Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 6:45 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Allende, the new drug of 2005? Hi, The lithium content of meteorites is pretty low. The organics in a carbonaceous are too small in molecular weight to be psychoactive. Guess it's just a case of meteorite happiness. Like substituting meteorite for horse in the famous Ronald Regan quote, The outside of a horse is good for the inside of a man. Except that it only happens when you cut them, so maybe it's the inside of a meteorite is good for... O, never mind! Sterling Webb -- Tom Knudson wrote: With all the ingredients in Allende, is it possible there is something in there that could work as an anti-depressant? Tom __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Allende, the new drug of 2005?
Sorry, over MY head!! - Original Message - From: MarkF [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteor list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 6:50 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Allende, the new drug of 2005? its a holistic thing hehehehehe - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tom Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED]; met list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 6:45 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Allende, the new drug of 2005? Hi, The lithium content of meteorites is pretty low. The organics in a carbonaceous are too small in molecular weight to be psychoactive. Guess it's just a case of meteorite happiness. Like substituting meteorite for horse in the famous Ronald Regan quote, The outside of a horse is good for the inside of a man. Except that it only happens when you cut them, so maybe it's the inside of a meteorite is good for... O, never mind! Sterling Webb -- Tom Knudson wrote: With all the ingredients in Allende, is it possible there is something in there that could work as an anti-depressant? Tom __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Talk/Program Topics
That's good!! Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: tett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AL Mitterling [EMAIL PROTECTED]; MeteoriteList meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Talk/Program Topics Al, A few times, I have given an introductory talk about meteorites to the local astronomy club. After my introduction to meteorites I have a little contest. For fun, I have taken in some meteorwrongs and have held contests where I will have ~15 samples for review of which ~half are real. The meteorwrongs consist of shatercones, impactite, quartz, and common rocks. The audience then gets to hold the samples and chose which are real an which are not. I allow lots of questions when they are holding the samples and this leads to fun discussions. I also have some magnets available for testing. Thanks for your topic ideas. Cheers, tett Owen Sound, Ontario - Original Message - From: AL Mitterling [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MeteoriteList meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 7:33 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Talk/Program Topics Hi list, I thought it might be useful for members to share their ideas on various talks or programs that we present in our communities. It might be a way to generate some ideas for those of us wanting to present something new and interesting at future programs. I thought I would list my ideas first. An example is I just gave a talk on Lunar and Martian Meteorites and how we know they are from those parent bodies. Here are some other Programs I have given: The History of Meteorites (How our understanding came about) How To Identify Meteorites Meteorites and Where They Come From (Parent Bodies) Meteorite Types The Mystery of Meteorites I also thought that programs on the following might be of interest. Meteorite Hunter Harvey Nininger Meteorites In The Collection Of (what ever museum) How To Hunt For Meteorites Meteorite Talks On Certain Falls How To Start a Collection Of Meteorites The History of Amateurs Collecting Meteorites I can think of a few others but want to let others chime in if they want. All my best! --AL Mitterling __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mars glaciers
Thanks Darren, I would imagine that Louis Agazssi(sorry for the spelling) would roll over in his grave if we didn't tentatively accept these findings until we get our feet on Martian soil(regolith?)(dust?)(rock?) Jerry - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 12:43 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars glaciers http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/physics_astronomy/report-41996.html Hourglass shaped craters filled traces of glacier This image, taken by the High Resolution Stereo Camera (HRSC) on board ESAs Mars Express spacecraft, shows flow features most likely formed by glaciers or block glaciers. This unusual hourglass-shaped structure is located in Promethei Terra at the eastern rim of the Hellas Basin, at about latitude 38 South and longitude 104 East. A so-called block glacier, an ice stream with a large amount of scree (small rocks of assorted sizes), flowed from a flank of the massif into a bowl-shaped impact crater (left), nine kilometres wide, which has been filled nearly to the rim. The block glacier then flowed into a 17 kilometre wide crater, 500 metres below, taking advantage of downward slope. The Martian surface at mid latitudes and even near the equator was being shaped by glaciers until a few million years ago. Today, water ice could still exist at shallow depths as fossil remnants of these glaciers. Numerous concentric ridges are visible and appear similar to end moraines (hills of scree that form as an extending glacier pushes material ahead and remain after its retreat). Furthermore, there are parallel stripe-like structures that are interpreted as middle moraines, displaying the flow direction of these glaciers. In locations where glaciers creep over steep terrain, cracks are visible. Similarly in terrestrial glaciers, cracks are formed when tensile stress within the ice increases due to greater slope and uneven terrain. Further glacial features include elongated grooves, extending several kilometres, and elongated hills observed on the surface of mountain ridges some distance from potentially glaciated areas. These hills could be analogous to so-called drumlins, structures formed beneath ice by glacial flow resulting in compression and accumulation of abraded material. On Earth, drumlins appear in formerly glaciated regions such as Germanys Bavarian alpine uplands. These glacial structures are seen in a consistent spatial context, confirming the belief that scientists are really seeing former glaciers on Mars. Of particular interest is the age of these glacially shaped surfaces, which seem to be fairly intact over a wide area of the formerly glaciated terrain. Typical evidence for a significant loss of ice volume, such as kettle holes present in ice-free regions of Iceland, are almost entirely missing. The statistical analysis of the number of craters formed by meteorite impacts used for age determination also shows that part of the surface with its present-day glacial characteristics was formed only a few million years ago. In planetology, this age range is considered extremely young. In these latitudes, ice on the surface of Mars is not stable over a long period of time due to the extremely thin atmosphere. In theory it is cold enough to allow for the existence of glaciers at the equator summer day temperatures rise to a maximum of 20 C while night and winter time temperatures often drop below minus 50 C. But under the prevailing atmospheric pressure, ice would sublimate (transform directly from solid to gaseous state), and then escape from the atmosphere into outer space. Therefore, glaciers must have formed until a few million years ago, in a time that was warmer and possibly also had a thicker atmosphere, and then became inactive or retreated due to the lack of continued supply of ice. Since then, they have been protected from sublimation by a thin dust layer. On Mars, dust is almost ubiquitous and would explain why fossil ice present at depths of only a few metres could not be detected by other instruments such as spectrometers. If these conclusions prove to be true, the results would indicate a climate change on Mars within the last million years. Such a dramatic climate change has been discussed for some years by Mars researchers. It could have been caused by a shift in the polar axis of the planet over millions of years a phenomenon long known to scientists. Martian climate history is one of the main areas that ESAs Mars Express can help to decipher. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] North Sea Crater Shows Its Scars
Thanks Ron. Wonderful speculation and possible avenues to pursue suggested by the counter argument. Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 2:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] North Sea Crater Shows Its Scars http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4360815.stm North Sea crater shows its scars By Jonathan Amos BBC News What is thought to be the UK's only space impact crater has been mapped in detail in 3D for the first time. The so-called Silverpit structure lies several hundred metres under the floor of the North Sea, about 130km (80 miles) east of the Yorkshire coast. The new pictures show a spectacular set of rings sweeping out around a 3km-wide (1.8 miles) central hole. Researchers report their description and interpretation of the images in the Geological Society of America Bulletin. Dr Simon Stewart and Phil Allen detail how the crater's features would have developed from the cataclysmic fall of an asteroid or comet about 60-65 million years ago. I'm 99% certain - as certain as you can be - that this is an impact structure, Phil Allen told the BBC News website. The geomorphology of the crater is absolutely right. If you saw that on Mars or any of the other planetary bodies you wouldn't question it. But some have - and there is now a lively debate about the origin of Silverpit among those who study the geology of the North Sea. For their part, Allen and Stewart - who first reported Silverpit's features in 2002 - hope their latest assessment of seismic reflection maps will go a long way to silencing the doubts. Other worlds Today, Silverpit is covered by shales and sandstones almost one km deep. It is only with the seismic data collected by petroleum companies hunting for new oil and gas fields that we know anything about the remarkable features cut into the underlying chalk. The whole area has been folded over time - stretched on one side, compressed on the other. Allen and Stewart say the inner bowl contains a 300m-high central peak, or nipple, typical of impact craters. This bowl is then surrounded by closely spaced rings, produced by rocks that have collapsed along lines of weakness. The rings stretch out almost 10km from the central point. As far as we're concerned, the structure is pretty near unique - certainly on Earth, said Mr Allen, a consultant geophysicist with Production Geoscience Ltd in Aberdeen. We suggest the rings are post impact-deformation. We believe there were two phases. First, during impact, specific areas were weakened - the ring shape was defined during impact, if you like. Then, much later - perhaps millions of years later - the rings were produced. Silverpit is 130km east of Yorkshire (BBC) Although nothing quite like Silverpit can be seen elsewhere on Earth or on the other inner planets, Stewart and Allen say the tight rings are a good match for those of impact craters on Jupiter's icy moons, such as Europa and Callisto. The two researchers think this may have something to do with the type of surfaces being bombarded. It goes to what's under the ice in the Jovian examples, which is probably a briny ocean; and what's under the chalk at Silverpit, which are these shales that may transmit the energy. We are beginning to think the layering is important. Independent lines To the sceptics, though, there is a more mundane explanation for the Silverpit features which does not require an extraterrestrial impactor. It relates to a thick layer of salt of Upper Permian (248-256 million years ago) age that lies below the whole area. This layer is well known because it forms the sealing horizon for gas prospecting. The salt is highly mobile and, argues Professor John Underhill from the University of Edinburgh, moves in and out of rock regions, influencing the geomorphology above. He says the crater rings match exactly where the salt has withdrawn. Features like this exist whenever you remove material at depth. It's true, for example, if you remove magma at depth; you have a collapse known as a caldera, explained Professor Underhill. Likewise, if you have mine shafts collapsing around a central point - if the mass at depth is circular, the pattern of fractures is also circular. He added: The best thing about this is that it has stimulated a debate and it is an interesting theory, but I just don't agree with their interpretation. Tyre crater on Europa (Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston) Similarities exist with impact structures on Jovian ice moons There are several lines of inquiry that might help settle this argument once and for all. If, as Stewart and Allen believe, a seven-million-tonne, 120m-wide object struck the Earth at 20km/s, the local rocks should show evidence of melting and metamorphism. Drill samples pulled up during gas prospecting in the area may find this. They may also give a more tightly constrained age for the Silverpit structure. In
