Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
<included>> There were four claims registered and they were named after four planets, Jupiter, Saturn, Mars and Venus. A map that I saw showed the center of the claims located at the center of the crater. The plan was always to mine for iron, the iron being the meteorite, and this was understood at the time the claims were granted. A limited amount of iron and oxidite (the so-called iron shale) was found inside the crater, including some subsurface pieces brought up from drilling, but apparently nothing substantial. Ron Hartman - Original Message - From: "Mark Bowling" To: "al mitt" ; "Greg Stanley" ; ; ; Cc: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question And in the eyes of the law, a mining claim is a property right, which can be bought, sold, used as collateral, etc. So on one hand, they are the property owners. But a good counter argument is that their claim was for specific minerals, of which a meteorite isn't included. But the whole incident surrounding Sue was a miscarriage of justice. Mark B. Vail, AZ - Original Message From: al mitt To: Greg Stanley ; sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net; almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 1:27:31 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question Hi Greg and all, Not a silly question if you like fish! Seriously, the minors who had a legal claim where the Old Woman was found had their meteorite taken from them. I don't know off hand if there are any other records out there of anyone else having this happen. Sue the dinosaur was taken from the finders after they went to the trouble of digging her up and had went through the proper channels. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Greg Stanley" To: ; ; Cc: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 3:19 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question Now you're just being silly. I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands: How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the Smithsonian? Greg S. From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600 CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened toethics?? No, But you will have to send half of the fish, if you catch any, to the Smithsonian... Sterling Webb -- - Original Message - From: To: "Martin Altmann" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened toethics?? Hi Martin and all, Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this country. --AL Mitterling Quoting Martin Altmann : No, where did I? Jason. I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I love meteorites. And, yes, I like my profession too, a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of. These are the four reasons, why I can't keep mum these years. Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are doing? If only a single one could explain me, which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina, in the Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South Africa (?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland.. then I promise to be much quieter. Perhaps you can help me with that? So far I see only, that they risk all. Thank you Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05 An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what happened toethics?? So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them. Because that was his question. ...Interesting. Jason __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _
Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
That's true, I forgot about that. That makes some legal precedent for claiming an iron strewnfield. I just doubt that today someone would be allowed to claim a meteorite field, especially stones, with the intent to mine them commercially as an ore. Under the "prudent man test", they would have to prove it was commercially viable to find and sell them as an iron ore. If they were wanting to sell them as specimens, I'm pretty sure that would be put under a salable (lease) status and not as a locatable mineral (claimable deposits). There are some gray areas like when people use claims to mine specimens (but often those are in patented mines). And I think if someone with deep pockets, like the Center for Bio. Diversity, wanted to challenge the mineral claims, the claimant would probably lose because such claims are on shaky legal ground. Specimen dealers are small fish however and since there are more visible, winnable cases for CBD, I doubt they would waste their time. So we know that if you have a large, surface strewnfield, which is easy to sight hunt or detect, that it can be commercially viable to harvest the field for sale to collectors. The problem with trying the leasing route is that since the Meteor Crater days, the law have been changed to state that meteorites found on federal land belong to the Federal government, and must be given to the Smithsonian. It would be an interesting strategy to try though (making a mining claim for iron ore) and if a meteorite finder was of some means and wanted to test that idea, it might be a case that could revolutionize meteorite laws in the U.S. Thanks for the example, that's a pretty cool one that I overlooked! For now I'm going to gamble that meteorite hunters on FS and BLM are small fish, and as long as I hunt along the border where they can't stop outright vandalism and wildcat dumping, I will be overlooked by the feds. And as long as I have my hunting license, I can go out glassing on State land with no problems (and if I happen to find some gold or meteorites, great!). Mark B. Vail, AZ - Original Message From: R N Hartman To: Mark Bowling ; al mitt ; Greg Stanley ; sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net; almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, March 12, 2010 2:26:16 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question <> There were four claims registered and they were named after four planets, Jupiter, Saturn, Mars and Venus. A map that I saw showed the center of the claims located at the center of the crater. The plan was always to mine for iron, the iron being the meteorite, and this was understood at the time the claims were granted. A limited amount of iron and oxidite (the so-called iron shale) was found inside the crater, including some subsurface pieces brought up from drilling, but apparently nothing substantial. Ron Hartman - Original Message - From: "Mark Bowling" To: "al mitt" ; "Greg Stanley" ; ; ; Cc: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question > And in the eyes of the law, a mining claim is a property right, which can > be bought, sold, used as collateral, etc. So on one hand, they are the > property owners. But a good counter argument is that their claim was for > specific minerals, of which a meteorite isn't included. > > But the whole incident surrounding Sue was a miscarriage of justice. > > Mark B. > Vail, AZ > > > > - Original Message > From: al mitt > To: Greg Stanley ; > sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net; almi...@localnet.com; > altm...@meteorite-martin.de > Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 1:27:31 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question > > Hi Greg and all, > > Not a silly question if you like fish! Seriously, the minors who had a > legal > claim where the Old Woman was found had their meteorite taken from them. I > don't know off hand if there are any other records out there of anyone > else > having this happen. > > Sue the dinosaur was taken from the finders after they went to the trouble > of digging her up and had went through the proper channels. > > --AL Mitterling > > - Original Message - > From: "Greg Stanley" > To: ; ; > > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 3:19 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question > > > > Now you're just being silly. > > I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands: > > How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the > Smithsonian? > > > Greg S. > > >> From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net >> To: almi..
Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
And in the eyes of the law, a mining claim is a property right, which can be bought, sold, used as collateral, etc. So on one hand, they are the property owners. But a good counter argument is that their claim was for specific minerals, of which a meteorite isn't included. But the whole incident surrounding Sue was a miscarriage of justice. Mark B. Vail, AZ - Original Message From: al mitt To: Greg Stanley ; sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net; almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 1:27:31 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question Hi Greg and all, Not a silly question if you like fish! Seriously, the minors who had a legal claim where the Old Woman was found had their meteorite taken from them. I don't know off hand if there are any other records out there of anyone else having this happen. Sue the dinosaur was taken from the finders after they went to the trouble of digging her up and had went through the proper channels. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Greg Stanley" To: ; ; Cc: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 3:19 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question Now you're just being silly. I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands: How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the Smithsonian? Greg S. > From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net > To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de > Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600 > CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened > toethics?? > > No, > > But you will have to send half of the fish, > if you catch any, to the Smithsonian... > > > Sterling Webb > -- > - Original Message - > From: > To: "Martin Altmann" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened > toethics?? > > > Hi Martin and all, > > Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this > country. > > --AL Mitterling > > Quoting Martin Altmann : > >> No, where did I? >> >> Jason. >> >> I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I >> love >> meteorites. >> And, yes, I like my profession too, >> a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of. >> >> These are the four reasons, >> why I can't keep mum these years. >> >> Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are >> doing? >> >> If only a single one could explain me, >> which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were >> in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina, >> in the >> Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South >> Africa >> (?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland.. >> >> then I promise to be much quieter. >> >> Perhaps you can help me with that? >> So far I see only, that they risk all. >> >> Thank you >> Martin >> >> >> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- >> Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com] >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05 >> An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what >> happened >> toethics?? >> >> So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying >> about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them. >> Because that was his question. >> ...Interesting. >> Jason >> >> >> >> __ >> Visit the Archives at >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __
Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
Exactly - I'd hate to be the example also. Hoping that Jeff's proposal gets some traction in the scientific community... - Original Message From: Jerry Flaherty To: Mark Bowling ; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 6:46:58 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question True, internet "piracy", the few celebrated in the media, attempt to WARN the public that the law has teeth. Hate to be the example -- From: "Mark Bowling" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:01 PM To: Cc: Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question > It is all a matter of enforcement - and they aren't enforcing it in every > case (probably none of them, but the potential is there). As it is now, > they can't keep the border sealed, so I doubt most feds in those districts > care because they have bigger worries. They can't keep people from dumping > trash and abandoning vehicles. So what is the harm of digging a few > meteorites (especially when most enthusiasts are eager to help in the > progress of meteoritics)? > > Happy hunting, > Mark B. > Vail, AZ > > > > > > - Original Message > From: Greg Stanley > To: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net; almi...@localnet.com; > altm...@meteorite-martin.de > Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 1:19:37 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question > > > Now you're just being silly. > > I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands: > > How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the > Smithsonian? > > > Greg S. > > >> From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net >> To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de >> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600 >> CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened >> toethics?? >> >> No, >> >> But you will have to send half of the fish, >> if you catch any, to the Smithsonian... >> >> >> Sterling Webb >> -- >> - Original Message - >> From: >> To: "Martin Altmann" >> Cc: >> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened >> toethics?? >> >> >> Hi Martin and all, >> >> Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this >> country. >> >> --AL Mitterling >> >> Quoting Martin Altmann : >> >>> No, where did I? >>> >>> Jason. >>> >>> I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I >>> love >>> meteorites. >>> And, yes, I like my profession too, >>> a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of. >>> >>> These are the four reasons, >>> why I can't keep mum these years. >>> >>> Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are >>> doing? >>> >>> If only a single one could explain me, >>> which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were >>> in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina, >>> in the >>> Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South >>> Africa >>> (?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland.. >>> >>> then I promise to be much quieter. >>> >>> Perhaps you can help me with that? >>> So far I see only, that they risk all. >>> >>> Thank you >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- >>> Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com] >>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05 >>> An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list >>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what >>> happened >>> toethics?? >>> >>> So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying >>> about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them. >>> Because that was his question. >>> ...Interesting. >>> Jason >>> >>> >>> >>> __ >>> Visit the Archives at >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Met
Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
True, internet "piracy", the few celebrated in the media, attempt to WARN the public that the law has teeth. Hate to be the example -- From: "Mark Bowling" Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:01 PM To: Cc: Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question It is all a matter of enforcement - and they aren't enforcing it in every case (probably none of them, but the potential is there). As it is now, they can't keep the border sealed, so I doubt most feds in those districts care because they have bigger worries. They can't keep people from dumping trash and abandoning vehicles. So what is the harm of digging a few meteorites (especially when most enthusiasts are eager to help in the progress of meteoritics)? Happy hunting, Mark B. Vail, AZ - Original Message From: Greg Stanley To: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net; almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 1:19:37 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question Now you're just being silly. I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands: How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the Smithsonian? Greg S. From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600 CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened toethics?? No, But you will have to send half of the fish, if you catch any, to the Smithsonian... Sterling Webb -- - Original Message - From: To: "Martin Altmann" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened toethics?? Hi Martin and all, Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this country. --AL Mitterling Quoting Martin Altmann : No, where did I? Jason. I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I love meteorites. And, yes, I like my profession too, a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of. These are the four reasons, why I can't keep mum these years. Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are doing? If only a single one could explain me, which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina, in the Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South Africa (?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland.. then I promise to be much quieter. Perhaps you can help me with that? So far I see only, that they risk all. Thank you Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05 An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what happened toethics?? So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them. Because that was his question. ...Interesting. Jason __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A simple question
Okay, tanks for settin me strate. As long as them there are doin the recognizin we's gonna be alrite. -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Elizabeth Warner wrote: > Wow! That is some very bizarre logic Carly... Heaven-forbid you ever do > something wrong/illegal because then we'll hold your kids and grandkids > and great-grandkids accountable as well! > > What matters is how the Smithsonian and other museums behave now. And > most museums are doing the right things recognizing that stolen property > is not a good thing. But to expect them to go back and fix everything > that curators did 72 years ago is a bit unreasonable. > > Clear Skies! > Elizabeth > > > > cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: > > Liz, > > It's never too late to do the right thing is it? The smith still exists. > > Why should they not be held accountable for their past sins ? > > Our great nation was built on doing what's right wasn't it? But, we have a > > terrible track record of self policing. What voters can do is nudge them a > > bit > > so they get back on the right track. Court litigation would be second best > > way to persuade the doing of the right thing. The Government is for the > > people not against us. Retribution is sometimes in order then forgiveness > > can follow? Carl > > -- > > Carl or Debbie Esparza > > Meteoritemax > > > > > > Elizabeth Warner wrote: > >> So you're going to hold the Smithsonian responsible for something that > >> happened 72 years ago?? Granted, what the reps of the Smithsonian did > >> way back then is not cool, but I don't think that "punishing" the > >> current institution is exactly fair either... > >> > >> I mean, if we were to search and find something in your family history > >> that you're not proud of and then hold it against you, how would you feel?? > >> > >> Clear Skies! > >> Elizabeth > >> > >> > >> > >> MIke Antonelli wrote: > >>> During my investigation and hunt for the Chicora meteorite, I found out > >>> the Smithsonian strong-armed the owners of the specimen that was found on > >>> their own land...Stating "You must turn this over in the name of > >>> science"...And they did...Granted, this was in 1938, but the truth of the > >>> matter is they came in, collected what little material there was, and > >>> split without so much as a thank you to the landowners. If I ever DO find > >>> that main mass,(and yes, it is still out there) they will get NONE of > >>> it...Sorry, but from the stories Ive heard about what took place back > >>> then (and yes, Ive gotten first hand accounts), it was not right, and > >>> they were even bullies about it! It was actually a hammer that tore the > >>> hide right off of a cow, that later that day had to be put down. Also a > >>> piece struck a chicken coop, and the other stone actually got tangled in > >>> a young girls dress as it came down. I have interviewed everyone that was > >>> there, that is still alive, and just > >>> talking to these folks made me somewhat ashamed of the Smith, and the > >>> way they handled things. > >>> __ > >>> Visit the Archives at > >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > >>> Meteorite-list mailing list > >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >>> > >> __ > >> Visit the Archives at > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A simple question
Wow! That is some very bizarre logic Carly... Heaven-forbid you ever do something wrong/illegal because then we'll hold your kids and grandkids and great-grandkids accountable as well! What matters is how the Smithsonian and other museums behave now. And most museums are doing the right things recognizing that stolen property is not a good thing. But to expect them to go back and fix everything that curators did 72 years ago is a bit unreasonable. Clear Skies! Elizabeth cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Liz, It's never too late to do the right thing is it? The smith still exists. Why should they not be held accountable for their past sins ? Our great nation was built on doing what's right wasn't it? But, we have a terrible track record of self policing. What voters can do is nudge them a bit so they get back on the right track. Court litigation would be second best way to persuade the doing of the right thing. The Government is for the people not against us. Retribution is sometimes in order then forgiveness can follow? Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Elizabeth Warner wrote: So you're going to hold the Smithsonian responsible for something that happened 72 years ago?? Granted, what the reps of the Smithsonian did way back then is not cool, but I don't think that "punishing" the current institution is exactly fair either... I mean, if we were to search and find something in your family history that you're not proud of and then hold it against you, how would you feel?? Clear Skies! Elizabeth MIke Antonelli wrote: During my investigation and hunt for the Chicora meteorite, I found out the Smithsonian strong-armed the owners of the specimen that was found on their own land...Stating "You must turn this over in the name of science"...And they did...Granted, this was in 1938, but the truth of the matter is they came in, collected what little material there was, and split without so much as a thank you to the landowners. If I ever DO find that main mass,(and yes, it is still out there) they will get NONE of it...Sorry, but from the stories Ive heard about what took place back then (and yes, Ive gotten first hand accounts), it was not right, and they were even bullies about it! It was actually a hammer that tore the hide right off of a cow, that later that day had to be put down. Also a piece struck a chicken coop, and the other stone actually got tangled in a young girls dress as it came down. I have interviewed everyone that was there, that is still alive, and just talking to these folks made me somewhat ashamed of the Smith, and the way they handled things. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A simple question
Liz, It's never too late to do the right thing is it? The smith still exists. Why should they not be held accountable for their past sins ? Our great nation was built on doing what's right wasn't it? But, we have a terrible track record of self policing. What voters can do is nudge them a bit so they get back on the right track. Court litigation would be second best way to persuade the doing of the right thing. The Government is for the people not against us. Retribution is sometimes in order then forgiveness can follow? Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Elizabeth Warner wrote: > So you're going to hold the Smithsonian responsible for something that > happened 72 years ago?? Granted, what the reps of the Smithsonian did > way back then is not cool, but I don't think that "punishing" the > current institution is exactly fair either... > > I mean, if we were to search and find something in your family history > that you're not proud of and then hold it against you, how would you feel?? > > Clear Skies! > Elizabeth > > > > MIke Antonelli wrote: > > During my investigation and hunt for the Chicora meteorite, I found out the > > Smithsonian strong-armed the owners of the specimen that was found on their > > own land...Stating "You must turn this over in the name of science"...And > > they did...Granted, this was in 1938, but the truth of the matter is they > > came in, collected what little material there was, and split without so > > much as a thank you to the landowners. If I ever DO find that main > > mass,(and yes, it is still out there) they will get NONE of it...Sorry, but > > from the stories Ive heard about what took place back then (and yes, Ive > > gotten first hand accounts), it was not right, and they were even bullies > > about it! It was actually a hammer that tore the hide right off of a cow, > > that later that day had to be put down. Also a piece struck a chicken coop, > > and the other stone actually got tangled in a young girls dress as it came > > down. I have interviewed everyone that was there, that is still alive, and > > just > > talking to these folks made me somewhat ashamed of the Smith, and the way > > they handled things. > > __ > > Visit the Archives at > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A simple question
So you're going to hold the Smithsonian responsible for something that happened 72 years ago?? Granted, what the reps of the Smithsonian did way back then is not cool, but I don't think that "punishing" the current institution is exactly fair either... I mean, if we were to search and find something in your family history that you're not proud of and then hold it against you, how would you feel?? Clear Skies! Elizabeth MIke Antonelli wrote: During my investigation and hunt for the Chicora meteorite, I found out the Smithsonian strong-armed the owners of the specimen that was found on their own land...Stating "You must turn this over in the name of science"...And they did...Granted, this was in 1938, but the truth of the matter is they came in, collected what little material there was, and split without so much as a thank you to the landowners. If I ever DO find that main mass,(and yes, it is still out there) they will get NONE of it...Sorry, but from the stories Ive heard about what took place back then (and yes, Ive gotten first hand accounts), it was not right, and they were even bullies about it! It was actually a hammer that tore the hide right off of a cow, that later that day had to be put down. Also a piece struck a chicken coop, and the other stone actually got tangled in a young girls dress as it came down. I have interviewed everyone that was there, that is still alive, and just talking to these folks made me somewhat ashamed of the Smith, and the way they handled things. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] A simple question
During my investigation and hunt for the Chicora meteorite, I found out the Smithsonian strong-armed the owners of the specimen that was found on their own land...Stating "You must turn this over in the name of science"...And they did...Granted, this was in 1938, but the truth of the matter is they came in, collected what little material there was, and split without so much as a thank you to the landowners. If I ever DO find that main mass,(and yes, it is still out there) they will get NONE of it...Sorry, but from the stories Ive heard about what took place back then (and yes, Ive gotten first hand accounts), it was not right, and they were even bullies about it! It was actually a hammer that tore the hide right off of a cow, that later that day had to be put down. Also a piece struck a chicken coop, and the other stone actually got tangled in a young girls dress as it came down. I have interviewed everyone that was there, that is still alive, and just talking to these folks made me somewhat ashamed of the Smith, and the way they handled things. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
Hi Jeff, I think I speak for many when I say you are a voice of logic and reason amidst the chaos and bickering on this issue (including my own). Hopefully the Meteoritical Society and IMCA will both be very vocal in defense of common sense on this issue - this is not a time to sit back, be silent, and let the bureaucrats bungle this up. Like Martin Altmann has so eloquently stated (many times) - the status quo prior to this new development was working better than most realize. Any tampering or further restrictions is going to hurt everyone involved, to the benefit of none. > If it isn't broken, don't fix it. <- Best regards, MikeG On 3/10/10, Jeff Grossman wrote: > I just threw the number 50% out there because it seemed like a fair > compromise. Trust me, collectors won't get such a deal from the federal > government on vertebrate fossils or cultural artifacts! But in this > case, everybody wins if the owner (the federal govt, representing the > people) splits the specimens with individual finders. Unlike the > fossils and artifacts, meteorites can be divided without losing their > major scientific value. Without a solution like this, everybody loses: > the owners get nothing and anybody who collects meteorites could be a > criminal. > > Jeff > > On 2010-03-10 3:19 PM, Greg Stanley wrote: >> Now you're just being silly. >> >> I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands: >> >> How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the >> Smithsonian? >> >> >> Greg S. >> >> >> >>> From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net >>> To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de >>> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600 >>> CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened >>> toethics?? >>> >>> No, >>> >>> But you will have to send half of the fish, >>> if you catch any, to the Smithsonian... >>> >>> >>> Sterling Webb >>> -- >>> - Original Message - >>> From: >>> To: "Martin Altmann" >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened >>> toethics?? >>> >>> >>> Hi Martin and all, >>> >>> Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this >>> country. >>> >>> --AL Mitterling >>> >>> Quoting Martin Altmann : >>> >>> No, where did I? Jason. I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I love meteorites. And, yes, I like my profession too, a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of. These are the four reasons, why I can't keep mum these years. Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are doing? If only a single one could explain me, which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina, in the Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South Africa (?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland.. then I promise to be much quieter. Perhaps you can help me with that? So far I see only, that they risk all. Thank you Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05 An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what happened toethics?? So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them. Because that was his question. ...Interesting. Jason __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> >>> __ >>> Visit the Archives at >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> __ >>> Visit the Archives at >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> >> _ >> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. >> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ >> ___
Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
Jeff, Again with all due respect. You said; "the owners get nothing and anybody who collects meteorites could be a criminal. " I agree with Sonny, How about 20% but of the first find only? Then they can buy any amount they want after that. Remember they would not even let OUR " Meteorite men" Photograph OUR Tucson Irons. Who are these guys and why are we letting our Gov get away with this crap? Does the name Rosa Parks or Martin Luther king mean anything? I don't think We the people will stand for being pushed around by our Government much longer. They can only push so hard until we are forced to push back. You only have to be 18 or over to vote. The Smithsonian got away with stealing the Tucson Irons but, that battle may not be over yet? In the mean time if we don't like something within our Government we can make changes. Including changing Government officials that lack brains and foresight . It has already been said a million times. Why let these things just rust away? That truly is a no win situation. Yes. I am pressing send now. Sorry. Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Jeff Grossman wrote: > I just threw the number 50% out there because it seemed like a fair > compromise. Trust me, collectors won't get such a deal from the federal > government on vertebrate fossils or cultural artifacts! But in this > case, everybody wins if the owner (the federal govt, representing the > people) splits the specimens with individual finders. Unlike the > fossils and artifacts, meteorites can be divided without losing their > major scientific value. Without a solution like this, everybody loses: > the owners get nothing and anybody who collects meteorites could be a > criminal. > > Jeff > > On 2010-03-10 3:19 PM, Greg Stanley wrote: > > Now you're just being silly. > > > > I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands: > > > > How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the > > Smithsonian? > > > > > > Greg S. > > > > > > > >> From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net > >> To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de > >> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600 > >> CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened > >> toethics?? > >> > >> No, > >> > >> But you will have to send half of the fish, > >> if you catch any, to the Smithsonian... > >> > >> > >> Sterling Webb > >> -- > >> - Original Message - > >> From: > >> To: "Martin Altmann" > >> Cc: > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened > >> toethics?? > >> > >> > >> Hi Martin and all, > >> > >> Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this > >> country. > >> > >> --AL Mitterling > >> > >> Quoting Martin Altmann : > >> > >> > >>> No, where did I? > >>> > >>> Jason. > >>> > >>> I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I > >>> love > >>> meteorites. > >>> And, yes, I like my profession too, > >>> a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of. > >>> > >>> These are the four reasons, > >>> why I can't keep mum these years. > >>> > >>> Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are > >>> doing? > >>> > >>> If only a single one could explain me, > >>> which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were > >>> in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina, > >>> in the > >>> Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South > >>> Africa > >>> (?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland.. > >>> > >>> then I promise to be much quieter. > >>> > >>> Perhaps you can help me with that? > >>> So far I see only, that they risk all. > >>> > >>> Thank you > >>> Martin > >>> > >>> > >>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- > >>> Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com] > >>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05 > >>> An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list > >>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what > >>> happened > >>> toethics?? > >>> > >>> So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying > >>> about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them. > >>> Because that was his question. > >>> ...Interesting. > >>> Jason > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> __ > >>> Visit the Archives at > >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > >>> Meteorite-list mailing list > >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> __ > >> Visit the Archives at > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
I guess the lesson there is "careful what you wish for"! ;-) That is too funny! - Original Message From: Jeff Grossman To: Meteorite-list Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 1:53:17 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question I agree. 20% for the collector and 80% for the Smithsonian. :) On 2010-03-10 3:48 PM, wahlpe...@aol.com wrote: > Hi Jeff and list, > >> I just threw the number 50% out there because it seemed like a fair > compromise. > > I like 20% better. :) > > Sonny > > > -Original Message- > From: Jeff Grossman > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Wed, Mar 10, 2010 12:35 pm > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question > > > I just threw the number 50% out there because it seemed like a fair > compromise. Trust me, collectors won't get such a deal from the > federal government on vertebrate fossils or cultural artifacts! But > in this case, everybody wins if the owner (the federal govt, > representing the people) splits the specimens with individual > finders. Unlike the fossils and artifacts, meteorites can be divided > without losing their major scientific value. Without a solution like > this, everybody loses: the owners get nothing and anybody who collects > meteorites could be a criminal. > > Jeff > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
Absolutely Mark, You can make all the laws you want to govern the recovery of meteorites in America, but without the means to enforce this, it is a toothless legislation. On Mar 10, 2010, at 11:01 AM, Mark Bowling wrote: > It is all a matter of enforcement - and they aren't enforcing it in every > case (probably none of them, but the potential is there). As it is now, they > can't keep the border sealed, so I doubt most feds in those districts care > because they have bigger worries. They can't keep people from dumping trash > and abandoning vehicles. So what is the harm of digging a few meteorites > (especially when most enthusiasts are eager to help in the progress of > meteoritics)? > > Happy hunting, > Mark B. > Vail, AZ > > > > > > - Original Message > From: Greg Stanley > To: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net; almi...@localnet.com; > altm...@meteorite-martin.de > Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 1:19:37 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question > > > Now you're just being silly. > > I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands: > > How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the > Smithsonian? > > > Greg S. > > >> From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net >> To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de >> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600 >> CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened >> toethics?? >> >> No, >> >> But you will have to send half of the fish, >> if you catch any, to the Smithsonian... >> >> >> Sterling Webb >> -- >> - Original Message - >> From: >> To: "Martin Altmann" >> Cc: >> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened >> toethics?? >> >> >> Hi Martin and all, >> >> Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this >> country. >> >> --AL Mitterling >> >> Quoting Martin Altmann : >> >>> No, where did I? >>> >>> Jason. >>> >>> I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I >>> love >>> meteorites. >>> And, yes, I like my profession too, >>> a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of. >>> >>> These are the four reasons, >>> why I can't keep mum these years. >>> >>> Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are >>> doing? >>> >>> If only a single one could explain me, >>> which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were >>> in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina, >>> in the >>> Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South >>> Africa >>> (?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland.. >>> >>> then I promise to be much quieter. >>> >>> Perhaps you can help me with that? >>> So far I see only, that they risk all. >>> >>> Thank you >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- >>> Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com] >>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05 >>> An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list >>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what >>> happened >>> toethics?? >>> >>> So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying >>> about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them. >>> Because that was his question. >>> ...Interesting. >>> Jason >>> >>> >>> >>> __ >>> Visit the Archives at >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> >> >> >> __ >> Visit the Archives at >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mai
Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
It is all a matter of enforcement - and they aren't enforcing it in every case (probably none of them, but the potential is there). As it is now, they can't keep the border sealed, so I doubt most feds in those districts care because they have bigger worries. They can't keep people from dumping trash and abandoning vehicles. So what is the harm of digging a few meteorites (especially when most enthusiasts are eager to help in the progress of meteoritics)? Happy hunting, Mark B. Vail, AZ - Original Message From: Greg Stanley To: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net; almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 1:19:37 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question Now you're just being silly. I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands: How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the Smithsonian? Greg S. > From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net > To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de > Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600 > CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened > toethics?? > > No, > > But you will have to send half of the fish, > if you catch any, to the Smithsonian... > > > Sterling Webb > -- > - Original Message - > From: > To: "Martin Altmann" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened > toethics?? > > > Hi Martin and all, > > Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this > country. > > --AL Mitterling > > Quoting Martin Altmann : > >> No, where did I? >> >> Jason. >> >> I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I >> love >> meteorites. >> And, yes, I like my profession too, >> a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of. >> >> These are the four reasons, >> why I can't keep mum these years. >> >> Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are >> doing? >> >> If only a single one could explain me, >> which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were >> in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina, >> in the >> Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South >> Africa >> (?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland.. >> >> then I promise to be much quieter. >> >> Perhaps you can help me with that? >> So far I see only, that they risk all. >> >> Thank you >> Martin >> >> >> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- >> Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com] >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05 >> An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what >> happened >> toethics?? >> >> So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying >> about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them. >> Because that was his question. >> ...Interesting. >> Jason >> >> >> >> __ >> Visit the Archives at >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
I agree. 20% for the collector and 80% for the Smithsonian. :) On 2010-03-10 3:48 PM, wahlpe...@aol.com wrote: Hi Jeff and list, I just threw the number 50% out there because it seemed like a fair compromise. I like 20% better. :) Sonny -Original Message- From: Jeff Grossman To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, Mar 10, 2010 12:35 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question I just threw the number 50% out there because it seemed like a fair compromise. Trust me, collectors won't get such a deal from the federal government on vertebrate fossils or cultural artifacts! But in this case, everybody wins if the owner (the federal govt, representing the people) splits the specimens with individual finders. Unlike the fossils and artifacts, meteorites can be divided without losing their major scientific value. Without a solution like this, everybody loses: the owners get nothing and anybody who collects meteorites could be a criminal. Jeff On 2010-03-10 3:19 PM, Greg Stanley wrote: Now you're just being silly. I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands: How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the Smithsonian? Greg S. >> From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600 CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened toethics?? No, But you will have to send half of the fish, if you catch any, to the Smithsonian... Sterling Webb -- - Original Message - From: To: "Martin Altmann" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened toethics?? Hi Martin and all, Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this country. --AL Mitterling Quoting Martin Altmann : >>> No, where did I? Jason. I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I love meteorites. And, yes, I like my profession too, a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of. These are the four reasons, why I can't keep mum these years. Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are doing? If only a single one could explain me, which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina, in the Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South Africa (?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland.. then I promise to be much quieter. Perhaps you can help me with that? So far I see only, that they risk all. Thank you Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05 An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what happened toethics?? So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them. Because that was his question. ...Interesting. Jason __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archi
Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
What always was a discuragement to me was that I have many meteorites that are an inch in size. Many are unclassified NWA's . Now if I were to send one to get tested to someone who usually wants a walnut sized rock, and wants a piece for "THE COLLECTION" What's left? How much would the gov keep? - Original Message > From: Jeff Grossman > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 2:35:23 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question > > I just threw the number 50% out there because it seemed like a fair > compromise. Trust me, collectors won't get such a deal from the > federal government on vertebrate fossils or cultural artifacts! But in > this case, everybody wins if the owner (the federal govt, representing the > people) splits the specimens with individual finders. Unlike the > fossils and artifacts, meteorites can be divided without losing their > major scientific value. Without a solution like this, everybody loses: > the owners get nothing and anybody who collects meteorites could be a > criminal. Jeff On 2010-03-10 3:19 PM, Greg Stanley > wrote: > Now you're just being silly. > > I have a question to > everyone who hunts Federal Lands: > > How many of you were FORCED... > FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the Smithsonian? > > > > Greg S. > > > > >> From: > >> href="mailto:sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net";>sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net >> > To: > href="mailto:almi...@localnet.com";>almi...@localnet.com; > > ymailto="mailto:altm...@meteorite-martin.de"; > href="mailto:altm...@meteorite-martin.de";>altm...@meteorite-martin.de >> > Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600 >> CC: > ymailto="mailto:Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com"; > href="mailto:Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com";>Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened > toethics?? >> >> No, >> >> But you will have > to send half of the fish, >> if you catch any, to the > Smithsonian... >> >> >> Sterling Webb >> > -- >> - > Original Message - >> From: >> To: "Martin > Altmann" >> Cc: >> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 > AM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder > day...whathappened >> toethics?? >> >> >> Hi > Martin and all, >> >> Next thing you know they will be putting > a stop to fishing in this >> country. >> >> --AL > Mitterling >> >> Quoting Martin Altmann > : >> >> >>> No, where did > I? >>> >>> Jason. >>> >>> I like > history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I >>> > love >>> meteorites. >>> And, yes, I like my profession > too, >>> a profession, nobody has to be ashamed > of. >>> >>> These are the four reasons, >>> > why I can't keep mum these years. >>> >>> Because I > simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are >>> > doing? >>> >>> If only a single one could explain > me, >>> which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or > were >>> in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in > Argentina, >>> in the >>> Philippines, in Denmark, in > Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South >>> Africa >>> > (?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in > Switzerland.. >>> >>> then I promise to be much > quieter. >>> >>> Perhaps you can help me with > that? >>> So far I see only, that they risk > all. >>> >>> Thank you >>> > Martin >>> >>> >>> -Ursprüngliche > Nachricht- >>> Von: Jason Utas [mailto:> ymailto="mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com"; > href="mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com";>meteorite...@gmail.com] >>> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05 >>> An: Martin Altmann; > Meteorite-list >>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even > sadder day...what >>> happened >>> > toethics?? >>> >>> So, what you're saying, Martin, is > that you advocate hunters lying >>> about
Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:27:31 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Greg and all, > >Not a silly question if you like fish! Seriously, the minors who had a legal >claim where the Old Woman was found had their meteorite taken from them. I Well, that's your problem right there-- you can't enter into a legal agreement with a minor! (Sorry! Sorry!) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
Hi Jeff and list, I just threw the number 50% out there because it seemed like a fair compromise. I like 20% better. :) Sonny -Original Message- From: Jeff Grossman To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, Mar 10, 2010 12:35 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question I just threw the number 50% out there because it seemed like a fair compromise. Trust me, collectors won't get such a deal from the federal government on vertebrate fossils or cultural artifacts! But in this case, everybody wins if the owner (the federal govt, representing the people) splits the specimens with individual finders. Unlike the fossils and artifacts, meteorites can be divided without losing their major scientific value. Without a solution like this, everybody loses: the owners get nothing and anybody who collects meteorites could be a criminal. Jeff On 2010-03-10 3:19 PM, Greg Stanley wrote: Now you're just being silly. I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands: How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the Smithsonian? Greg S. >> From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600 CC: meteorite-l...@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened toethics?? No, But you will have to send half of the fish, if you catch any, to the Smithsonian... Sterling Webb -- - Original Message - From: To: "Martin Altmann" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened toethics?? Hi Martin and all, Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this country. --AL Mitterling Quoting Martin Altmann : >>> No, where did I? Jason. I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I love meteorites. And, yes, I like my profession too, a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of. These are the four reasons, why I can't keep mum these years. Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are doing? If only a single one could explain me, which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina, in the Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South Africa (?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland.. then I promise to be much quieter. Perhaps you can help me with that? So far I see only, that they risk all. Thank you Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05 An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what happened toethics?? So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them. Because that was his question. ...Interesting. Jason __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list meteorite-l...@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list meteorite-l...@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list meteorite-l...@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list meteorite-l...@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list meteorite-l...@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-l
Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
I just threw the number 50% out there because it seemed like a fair compromise. Trust me, collectors won't get such a deal from the federal government on vertebrate fossils or cultural artifacts! But in this case, everybody wins if the owner (the federal govt, representing the people) splits the specimens with individual finders. Unlike the fossils and artifacts, meteorites can be divided without losing their major scientific value. Without a solution like this, everybody loses: the owners get nothing and anybody who collects meteorites could be a criminal. Jeff On 2010-03-10 3:19 PM, Greg Stanley wrote: Now you're just being silly. I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands: How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the Smithsonian? Greg S. From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600 CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened toethics?? No, But you will have to send half of the fish, if you catch any, to the Smithsonian... Sterling Webb -- - Original Message - From: To: "Martin Altmann" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened toethics?? Hi Martin and all, Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this country. --AL Mitterling Quoting Martin Altmann : No, where did I? Jason. I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I love meteorites. And, yes, I like my profession too, a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of. These are the four reasons, why I can't keep mum these years. Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are doing? If only a single one could explain me, which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina, in the Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South Africa (?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland.. then I promise to be much quieter. Perhaps you can help me with that? So far I see only, that they risk all. Thank you Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05 An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what happened toethics?? So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them. Because that was his question. ...Interesting. Jason __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
As I had said on this list a few weeks ago, the original Gold Basin team of three gave a percentage of our first finds to the Smithsonian as that is what the University of Arizona asked us to do and we did it willingly and cheerfully. Twink Monrad Re: I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands: How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the Smithsonian? Greg S. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
Hi Greg and all, Not a silly question if you like fish! Seriously, the minors who had a legal claim where the Old Woman was found had their meteorite taken from them. I don't know off hand if there are any other records out there of anyone else having this happen. Sue the dinosaur was taken from the finders after they went to the trouble of digging her up and had went through the proper channels. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Greg Stanley" To: ; ; Cc: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 3:19 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question Now you're just being silly. I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands: How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the Smithsonian? Greg S. From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600 CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened toethics?? No, But you will have to send half of the fish, if you catch any, to the Smithsonian... Sterling Webb -- - Original Message - From: To: "Martin Altmann" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened toethics?? Hi Martin and all, Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this country. --AL Mitterling Quoting Martin Altmann : No, where did I? Jason. I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I love meteorites. And, yes, I like my profession too, a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of. These are the four reasons, why I can't keep mum these years. Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are doing? If only a single one could explain me, which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina, in the Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South Africa (?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland.. then I promise to be much quieter. Perhaps you can help me with that? So far I see only, that they risk all. Thank you Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05 An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what happened toethics?? So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them. Because that was his question. ...Interesting. Jason __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] A Simple Question
Now you're just being silly. I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands: How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the Smithsonian? Greg S. > From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net > To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de > Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600 > CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened > toethics?? > > No, > > But you will have to send half of the fish, > if you catch any, to the Smithsonian... > > > Sterling Webb > -- > - Original Message - > From: > To: "Martin Altmann" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened > toethics?? > > > Hi Martin and all, > > Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this > country. > > --AL Mitterling > > Quoting Martin Altmann : > >> No, where did I? >> >> Jason. >> >> I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I >> love >> meteorites. >> And, yes, I like my profession too, >> a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of. >> >> These are the four reasons, >> why I can't keep mum these years. >> >> Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are >> doing? >> >> If only a single one could explain me, >> which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were >> in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina, >> in the >> Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South >> Africa >> (?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland.. >> >> then I promise to be much quieter. >> >> Perhaps you can help me with that? >> So far I see only, that they risk all. >> >> Thank you >> Martin >> >> >> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- >> Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com] >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05 >> An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what >> happened >> toethics?? >> >> So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying >> about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them. >> Because that was his question. >> ...Interesting. >> Jason >> >> >> >> __ >> Visit the Archives at >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A simple question
Göran Axelsson wrote: > What I'm looking for is a simple number of meteorites > per square km (mile, parsek, ...) and year that hits > the Earth so I could do an approximation of meteorites > per year in Sweden. -- Göran Goren, List, I posted a study on the fall rate on the List back in Dec. 2000. Here's some of the conclusions. Many years ago, Nininger estimated that 500 meteorites ranging from 100 grams to 10 kilograms in mass fell on land each year (approximately 2000 for the entire Earth). His estimate was based on his field experience. More recently, Canada's Meteor Observation and Recovery Project (MORP) estimated 23,930 meteorites per year as the worldwide fall rate, using radar detection of fireballs. The Phil Bland study (1996) put it at 18,000 to 84,000 per year, using another methodology based on the find rate vs. the weathering rate of the find area. My study was based on how often meteorites hit houses, ships, cars and trucks! (Hey, there a fixed and measurable target area and very well distributed, plus people notice when a space rock hits their wheels or their dwelling!) It's interesting that such varying methodologies end up with the similarity of result that they do. Taking the area of the Earth to be 510,000,000 sq km and the meteorite flux to be 23,930 per yr, this yields the assumed collisional cross section of the earth to be 21,360 sq km per yr. This rate means that one meteorite per year falls on an area of 21,320 square kilometers. The inverse function of this value is how long we have to wait for a meteorite to fall on a standard area, or the mean time to impact: 21,360 yr per sq km. To put this flux into perspective, if you owned a house with a half-acre yard, you would have to wait 10,552,000 years for a meteorite to fall in your front or back yard or on your roof! (On average, that is; it could happen tomorrow.) However, calculating from impacts on U.S. automobiles (a fixed target area well distributed) is 250% of expectation, again suggesting a flux of 59,825 meteorites per year, or a terrestrial collisional cross section of 8528 sq km per yr. My analysis suggests that the actual meteoritic flux is much greater than what is currently assumed (23,930 meteorites per year). The data implies a better fit with a meteoritic flux of 60,000 to 100,000 meteorites per year at a minimum. In the case of Sweden, if you assumed every meteorite that fell was still lying in place undisturbed since the ice went away 10,000 years ago, there would have accumulated about one meteorite per square kilometer. To calculate, the number of meteorites that fall on Sweden each year, divide the area of the nation in sq km by 8500 (corresponds to a fall rate of about 60,000 per year for the planet). Adjust appropriately if you believe in higher or lower fall rates. The same calculation would apply to any northern hemisphere area glaciated. Equatorial deserts (NWA) have accumulated meteorites for much longer (but the NWA area was a grassland with forest clumps and rivers during the ice age, so preservation was not as good as today). Rob Matson thinks the fall rate is even greater than I do (he said 120,000 to 150,000 per year for the planet). Sterling K. Webb __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A simple question
I found this list: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=192044 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A simple question
Goran, I asked this same question a while back and the general answer I received was "about one fall per three square miles per thousand years". (This still begs the question of the average number of fragments per fall---). I would also appreciate any corrections list members may have to offer. Best Regards, Norm http://TektiteSource.co --- Göran Axelsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ... with a number of different answers depending on > who you ask... > > I'm going to hold a speach about meteorites on our > local geology club tomorrow and it struck me that I > haven't the faintest clue about how often a > meteorite > survives the fall. > What I'm looking for is a simple number of > meteorites > per square km (mile, parsek, ...) and year that hits > the Earth so I could do an approximation of > meteorites > per year in Sweden. > There is probably a lot of different numbers > depending > on which scientist made the calculation, but I just > need an approximate answer. > > Thanks! > > /Göran > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A simple question
Hey Mexico Doug, Sound Familiar? Cj - Original Message - From: "Göran Axelsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 8:30 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] A simple question > ... with a number of different answers depending on who you ask... > > I'm going to hold a speach about meteorites on our > local geology club tomorrow and it struck me that I > haven't the faintest clue about how often a meteorite > survives the fall. > What I'm looking for is a simple number of meteorites > per square km (mile, parsek, ...) and year that hits > the Earth so I could do an approximation of meteorites > per year in Sweden. > There is probably a lot of different numbers depending > on which scientist made the calculation, but I just > need an approximate answer. > > Thanks! > > /Göran > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] A simple question
... with a number of different answers depending on who you ask... I'm going to hold a speach about meteorites on our local geology club tomorrow and it struck me that I haven't the faintest clue about how often a meteorite survives the fall. What I'm looking for is a simple number of meteorites per square km (mile, parsek, ...) and year that hits the Earth so I could do an approximation of meteorites per year in Sweden. There is probably a lot of different numbers depending on which scientist made the calculation, but I just need an approximate answer. Thanks! /Göran __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
