[meteorite-list] Moss meteorite
Hi meteorite mailinglist. I`m one of the finder of the Moss-meteorite (I found together with Mike F) It will come a full report with all details later from Knut Jørgen Røed Ødegaard and me about this fall. But can here summarize little. So far its been found five stones at total weight at aprox 3,1 kg. 1. 35 gr - The first at Martinsens cabin, found friday 14. july 1025 (as the fall time) 2. 750 gr - Johansens house, monday 17. july. 3. 800 gr - Who I together with Mike Farmer found sunday 30 july. 4. 6 - 800 gr - Its minimal information about this stone. Michael Mazur or Bjørn Sørheim have some info. 5. 676 gr - Found on a company`s roof friday 4 august. I have seen all the stones in my hand exept nr. 4 only at pictures. Nr. 2 and 5 are whole pieces (very minimal damage) They are also paired. Nr. 3 are in many pieces. Nr. 4 are at least in two pieces (maybe more) and the smallest nr. 1 has lost some few smaller pieces. Over a kilo is available at the marked so far, but not nr. 1, 2 and 5. Havent time for more details now, are in the strewnfield every day (I live only 20 minutes from the strewnfield) Full report later. Best wishes Morten Bilet __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite
Dear List, I thought the laws that cover meteorites in Norway mean that they belong to whom's property they fell on. I wonder if permission was sought in the case of the pieces recovered on private property at the cement factory? If not, I am sure a legal claim could be brought forth. If a meteorite fell on my property and somebody came along without permission and took it, I would be pretty upset. Just a horrible thought, how about it Mike? Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite
Howdy, I just got a piece of the new Norwegian fall and thought I'd make a few quick observations and pics. Sorry I didin't have time to do it a bit more in depth but here's what I came up with so far. I'll work on it some more over the weekend. http://www.meteorites.com.au/features/moss.html Cheers, Jeff __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] moss meteorite
Well today I am one of the lucky ones.I just received my new MOSS meteorite from norway,via mike farmer.It is a 2.63 gram fragment with really nice black crust.There is not one drop of moisture on it.You can view on my homepage on my website.Thanks again to mike farmer and all the hard work he did. steve arnold,chicago,usa!!Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com Illinois meteorites,since 1999! Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite
Hello List, Björn wrote (in a private mail): "Would like to see your comments. Also from a scientific point of view" Here's my response (excerpts - I'm leaving out my private remarks) because I think this is of general interest to all of us who acquired a piece of this (still) enigmatic meteorite: There is not very much I can say about the Moss meteorite as I don't know it in person - I've only seen some pictures so far. It looks very much like a CO or a CK chondrite. I don't believe it is a Kakangari-like meteorite (see David Weir's previous post to the List) but if it was one, that would be a blast, of course! If it is a KAK, it should have some of these characteristics: - its oxidation state resembles that of enstatite chondrites - there is a high abundance of pyroxene (more than olivine) - its oxygen isotopes are comparable to those of CH or CR chondrites - a high metal content similar to that of H chondrites. If Jeff Kuyken's observation (see his website) about Moss chondrule size is correct, 0.25-0.30 mm, this would favor a CO classification. CK chondrites tend to have a chondrule size of 0.8 mm. KAK meteorites have a chondrule size of 0.69 mm (according to Hutchison). Jeff's estimate of the volume of chondrules (about 50%) would also favor a CO classification (40 vol %) instead of 15 vol % for CK's or 19% for KAK. Whatever it is, it is a beautiful, pristine new fall ... Cheers, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite
Translated reports reported to the List state that these meteorites were stolen. I am just making sure since the original finder of the cement factory pieces is offering specimens for somewhat less. It is always good to double check these things as you know from Park Forest. I hope you got permission in writing is all I have to say. My days of chasing falls in over unless they fall somewhat nearby. When are the initial lab results do out? Adam - Original Message - From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Adam Hupe'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:06 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite > Adam, you embarrass yourself with such posts. We sought, and received > permission to search the Cement factory, and they were excited for us when > we found it. Morten Bilet is Norwegian, and spoke to everyone, who had seen > him on TV and in the newspaper every day. > Please contain your usual poisonous emails since you are too lazy to go on > real hunts yourself. I know you are pissed that you didn't go, and you hate > to see me making money on sales. But as an IMCA board member, I would expect > more courtesy from a person like you. The fact that you are a board member > is one main reason why I will not join the IMCA. Matt Morgan also posted > that it was illegal to remove meteorites from Norway when I posted that we > had found one, which is not true of course. It seems that other dealers feel > no need to show professional courtesy to successful hunters anymore. > Are you going to now accuse Morten Bilet of being a thief? > You had better get your facts strait before you make such accusations. > Michael Farmer > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:00 PM > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite > > Dear List, > > I thought the laws that cover meteorites in Norway mean that they belong to > whom's property they fell on. I wonder if permission was sought in the case > of the pieces recovered on private property at the cement factory? If not, > I am sure a legal claim could be brought forth. If a meteorite fell on my > property and somebody came along without permission and took it, I would be > pretty upset. > > Just a horrible thought, how about it Mike? > > Adam > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite
Oh Adam, go to bed, you are showing everyone on this list what an ASS you can be. Show me who is selling cheaper. Why do you say "The origional finder" While Morten Bilet and I found it together, about 3 feet from each other, so I would say we are both origional finders. The only fall you have ever chased is Park Forest, and you found nothing. Adam, leave me alone, you would have a lot less stress in your life if you stayed out of my business. Again, you look like an idiot with these accusations. Good night. Mike Farmer --- Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Translated reports reported to the List state that > these meteorites were > stolen. I am just making sure since the original > finder of the cement > factory pieces is offering specimens for somewhat > less. It is always good to > double check these things as you know from Park > Forest. I hope you got > permission in writing is all I have to say. My days > of chasing falls in > over unless they fall somewhat nearby. When are the > initial lab results do > out? > > Adam > > > - Original Message - > From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'Adam Hupe'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:06 PM > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite > > > > Adam, you embarrass yourself with such posts. We > sought, and received > > permission to search the Cement factory, and they > were excited for us when > > we found it. Morten Bilet is Norwegian, and spoke > to everyone, who had > seen > > him on TV and in the newspaper every day. > > Please contain your usual poisonous emails since > you are too lazy to go on > > real hunts yourself. I know you are pissed that > you didn't go, and you > hate > > to see me making money on sales. But as an IMCA > board member, I would > expect > > more courtesy from a person like you. The fact > that you are a board member > > is one main reason why I will not join the IMCA. > Matt Morgan also posted > > that it was illegal to remove meteorites from > Norway when I posted that we > > had found one, which is not true of course. It > seems that other dealers > feel > > no need to show professional courtesy to > successful hunters anymore. > > Are you going to now accuse Morten Bilet of being > a thief? > > You had better get your facts strait before you > make such accusations. > > Michael Farmer > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Adam > Hupe > > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:00 PM > > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > Subject: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite > > > > Dear List, > > > > I thought the laws that cover meteorites in Norway > mean that they belong > to > > whom's property they fell on. I wonder if > permission was sought in the > case > > of the pieces recovered on private property at the > cement factory? If > not, > > I am sure a legal claim could be brought forth. > If a meteorite fell on my > > property and somebody came along without > permission and took it, I would > be > > pretty upset. > > > > Just a horrible thought, how about it Mike? > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite
Oh Adam, go to bed, you are showing everyone on this list what an ASS you can be. Show me who is selling cheaper. Why do you say "The origional finder" While Morten Bilet and I found it together, about 3 feet from each other, so I would say we are both origional finders. The only fall you have ever chased is Park Forest, and you found nothing. Adam, leave me alone, you would have a lot less stress in your life if you stayed out of my business. Again, you look like an idiot with these accusations. Good night. Mike Farmer --- Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Translated reports reported to the List state that > these meteorites were > stolen. I am just making sure since the original > finder of the cement > factory pieces is offering specimens for somewhat > less. It is always good to > double check these things as you know from Park > Forest. I hope you got > permission in writing is all I have to say. My days > of chasing falls in > over unless they fall somewhat nearby. When are the > initial lab results do > out? > > Adam > > > - Original Message - > From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'Adam Hupe'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:06 PM > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite > > > > Adam, you embarrass yourself with such posts. We > sought, and received > > permission to search the Cement factory, and they > were excited for us when > > we found it. Morten Bilet is Norwegian, and spoke > to everyone, who had > seen > > him on TV and in the newspaper every day. > > Please contain your usual poisonous emails since > you are too lazy to go on > > real hunts yourself. I know you are pissed that > you didn't go, and you > hate > > to see me making money on sales. But as an IMCA > board member, I would > expect > > more courtesy from a person like you. The fact > that you are a board member > > is one main reason why I will not join the IMCA. > Matt Morgan also posted > > that it was illegal to remove meteorites from > Norway when I posted that we > > had found one, which is not true of course. It > seems that other dealers > feel > > no need to show professional courtesy to > successful hunters anymore. > > Are you going to now accuse Morten Bilet of being > a thief? > > You had better get your facts strait before you > make such accusations. > > Michael Farmer > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Adam > Hupe > > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:00 PM > > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > Subject: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite > > > > Dear List, > > > > I thought the laws that cover meteorites in Norway > mean that they belong > to > > whom's property they fell on. I wonder if > permission was sought in the > case > > of the pieces recovered on private property at the > cement factory? If > not, > > I am sure a legal claim could be brought forth. > If a meteorite fell on my > > property and somebody came along without > permission and took it, I would > be > > pretty upset. > > > > Just a horrible thought, how about it Mike? > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite
Who is Mike Mazur?, he is the one offering a better deal. Lets see your written permission. Any treasure hunter and professional knows that you need it in writing to avoid future conflict which happens all of time. If the owner(s) of the cement company knew you were seeking $200.00 a gram or $70,000.00 he may be inclined to retract any verbal permission given. Adam - Original Message - From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite > Oh Adam, go to bed, you are showing everyone on this > list what an ASS you can be. Show me who is selling > cheaper. Why do you say "The origional finder" While > Morten Bilet and I found it together, about 3 feet > from each other, so I would say we are both origional > finders. The only fall you have ever chased is Park > Forest, and you found nothing. > Adam, leave me alone, you would have a lot less stress > in your life if you stayed out of my business. > Again, you look like an idiot with these accusations. > Good night. > Mike Farmer > > > > --- Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Translated reports reported to the List state that > > these meteorites were > > stolen. I am just making sure since the original > > finder of the cement > > factory pieces is offering specimens for somewhat > > less. It is always good to > > double check these things as you know from Park > > Forest. I hope you got > > permission in writing is all I have to say. My days > > of chasing falls in > > over unless they fall somewhat nearby. When are the > > initial lab results do > > out? > > > > Adam > > > > > > ----- Original Message - > > From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "'Adam Hupe'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:06 PM > > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite > > > > > > > Adam, you embarrass yourself with such posts. We > > sought, and received > > > permission to search the Cement factory, and they > > were excited for us when > > > we found it. Morten Bilet is Norwegian, and spoke > > to everyone, who had > > seen > > > him on TV and in the newspaper every day. > > > Please contain your usual poisonous emails since > > you are too lazy to go on > > > real hunts yourself. I know you are pissed that > > you didn't go, and you > > hate > > > to see me making money on sales. But as an IMCA > > board member, I would > > expect > > > more courtesy from a person like you. The fact > > that you are a board member > > > is one main reason why I will not join the IMCA. > > Matt Morgan also posted > > > that it was illegal to remove meteorites from > > Norway when I posted that we > > > had found one, which is not true of course. It > > seems that other dealers > > feel > > > no need to show professional courtesy to > > successful hunters anymore. > > > Are you going to now accuse Morten Bilet of being > > a thief? > > > You had better get your facts strait before you > > make such accusations. > > > Michael Farmer > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On Behalf Of Adam > > Hupe > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:00 PM > > > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite > > > > > > Dear List, > > > > > > I thought the laws that cover meteorites in Norway > > mean that they belong > > to > > > whom's property they fell on. I wonder if > > permission was sought in the > > case > > > of the pieces recovered on private property at the > > cement factory? If > > not, > > > I am sure a legal claim could be brought forth. > > If a meteorite fell on my > > > property and somebody came along without > > permission and took it, I would > > be > > > pretty upset. > > > > > > Just a horrible thought, how about it Mike? > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite
YAWN,, Adam, I love how you think you are the king of the mole hill, you are not however. Get a life, take your request for written permission and put it where your hot air seems to come from. List members, look how long it took before Adam jumped in with this crap, about 2 hours is all it took. Adam, get a life dude, you need help. Michal Mazur can do whatever he wants, it is his business. He is also selling $20,000 pieces, so if it is cheaper, go for it. I am here, in the USA, I can ship now, or you can wait on someone else to make up their mind what they want to do. Not my problem. When permission is given it can not be revoked 3 weeks later. Even your lawyers should be able to tell you that. Keep it up though, it shows this entire list what an IMCA board member is about. Michael Farmer --- Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Who is Mike Mazur?, he is the one offering a better > deal. Lets see your > written permission. Any treasure hunter and > professional knows that you need > it in writing to avoid future conflict which happens > all of time. If the > owner(s) of the cement company knew you were seeking > $200.00 a gram or > $70,000.00 he may be inclined to retract any verbal > permission given. > > Adam > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:18 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite > > > > Oh Adam, go to bed, you are showing everyone on > this > > list what an ASS you can be. Show me who is > selling > > cheaper. Why do you say "The origional finder" > While > > Morten Bilet and I found it together, about 3 feet > > from each other, so I would say we are both > origional > > finders. The only fall you have ever chased is > Park > > Forest, and you found nothing. > > Adam, leave me alone, you would have a lot less > stress > > in your life if you stayed out of my business. > > Again, you look like an idiot with these > accusations. > > Good night. > > Mike Farmer > > > > > > > > --- Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Translated reports reported to the List state > that > > > these meteorites were > > > stolen. I am just making sure since the original > > > finder of the cement > > > factory pieces is offering specimens for > somewhat > > > less. It is always good to > > > double check these things as you know from Park > > > Forest. I hope you got > > > permission in writing is all I have to say. My > days > > > of chasing falls in > > > over unless they fall somewhat nearby. When are > the > > > initial lab results do > > > out? > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Michael Farmer" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "'Adam Hupe'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:06 PM > > > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite > > > > > > > > > > Adam, you embarrass yourself with such posts. > We > > > sought, and received > > > > permission to search the Cement factory, and > they > > > were excited for us when > > > > we found it. Morten Bilet is Norwegian, and > spoke > > > to everyone, who had > > > seen > > > > him on TV and in the newspaper every day. > > > > Please contain your usual poisonous emails > since > > > you are too lazy to go on > > > > real hunts yourself. I know you are pissed > that > > > you didn't go, and you > > > hate > > > > to see me making money on sales. But as an > IMCA > > > board member, I would > > > expect > > > > more courtesy from a person like you. The fact > > > that you are a board member > > > > is one main reason why I will not join the > IMCA. > > > Matt Morgan also posted > > > > that it was illegal to remove meteorites from > > > Norway when I posted that we > > > > had found one, which is not true of course. It > > > seems that other dealers > > > feel > > > > no need to show professional courtesy to > > > successful hunters anymore. > > > > Are you going to now accuse Morten Bilet of > being > > > a thief? > > > > You had better get your facts strait before &
Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite
Mike, This has nothing to do with the IMCA. When I ran for election I stated that I do not always agree with dealers, especially when it comes to ethics. On the other hand, if I were wrong I would promptly admit it which I have done a few times. I also stated I will go after anything that does not smell right. Remember this, the status of limitations runs out on a certain gag order in a mere year and a half and I am ready and willing to talk. Adam - Original Message - From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Adam Hupe'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:30 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite > YAWN,, > > Adam, I love how you think you are the king of the mole hill, you are not > however. > Get a life, take your request for written permission and put it where your > hot air seems to come from. > List members, look how long it took before Adam jumped in with this crap, > about 2 hours is all it took. Adam, get a life dude, you need help. > Michal Mazur can do whatever he wants, it is his business. He is also > selling $20,000 pieces, so if it is cheaper, go for it. I am here, in the > USA, I can ship now, or you can wait on someone else to make up their mind > what they want to do. Not my problem. > When permission is given it can not be revoked 3 weeks later. Even your > lawyers should be able to tell you that. > Keep it up though, it shows this entire list what an IMCA board member is > about. > Michael Farmer > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:25 PM > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite > > Who is Mike Mazur?, he is the one offering a better deal. Lets see your > written permission. Any treasure hunter and professional knows that you need > it in writing to avoid future conflict which happens all of time. If the > owner(s) of the cement company knew you were seeking $200.00 a gram or > $70,000.00 he may be inclined to retract any verbal permission given. > > Adam > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:18 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite > > > > Oh Adam, go to bed, you are showing everyone on this > > list what an ASS you can be. Show me who is selling > > cheaper. Why do you say "The origional finder" While > > Morten Bilet and I found it together, about 3 feet > > from each other, so I would say we are both origional > > finders. The only fall you have ever chased is Park > > Forest, and you found nothing. > > Adam, leave me alone, you would have a lot less stress > > in your life if you stayed out of my business. > > Again, you look like an idiot with these accusations. > > Good night. > > Mike Farmer > > > > > > > > --- Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Translated reports reported to the List state that > > > these meteorites were > > > stolen. I am just making sure since the original > > > finder of the cement > > > factory pieces is offering specimens for somewhat > > > less. It is always good to > > > double check these things as you know from Park > > > Forest. I hope you got > > > permission in writing is all I have to say. My days > > > of chasing falls in > > > over unless they fall somewhat nearby. When are the > > > initial lab results do > > > out? > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "'Adam Hupe'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:06 PM > > > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite > > > > > > > > > > Adam, you embarrass yourself with such posts. We > > > sought, and received > > > > permission to search the Cement factory, and they > > > were excited for us when > > > > we found it. Morten Bilet is Norwegian, and spoke > > > to everyone, who had > > > seen > > > > him on TV and in the newspaper every day. > > > > Please contain your usual poisonous emails since > > > you are too lazy to go on > > > > real hunts yourself. I know you are pissed that > > > you didn't
[meteorite-list] Moss meteorite sales
Ok, today was a rough day with paying bills, taking care of the usual things after a 3 week absence, and trying to collect my precious cargo from Sweden without success! I will focus on selling some of the Moss meteorite tomorrow. I must recover some of the nearly $7000 I spent on the trip to Norway and Sweden. Anyone who thinks meteorite hunting is cheap needs to try it sometime! I will prefer to do private sales as I have too many small pieces to photograph and put on the website as I normally do. I know from the response to my emails over the last couple of weeks I will have most of the material sold rapidly. I have too many emails from the trip to go through quickly, so Anyone wanting a piece needs to email me ASAP with the amount they want to spend and I can try to accommodate them. I will offer it for $200.00 per gram. I have many pieces with fusion crust, but that will run out fast, so if you want crust, I need to know like now. Anyone who thinks this is a high price needs to think again. I have already sold my largest piece for that amount, and Bob Haag and I had lunch today and he also wont sell for less as he bought his pieces. There are only 5 witnessed falls of CO3 meteorites in the world, Moss if confirmed as a CO3 will make that #6. So here we go, let the sales begin! Moss Norway, fell July 14th, 2006 at ~10:15 am in the Ostfold region including the towns of Rygge and Moss. So far, just over 3 kilograms known. 50% of this is already in Museum hands and totally out of the running for sales. After a month of searching by over 20 meteorite hunters and dealers, I highly doubt that much more will be recovered if any at all. Michael Farmer By the way, I will build a great webpage with photos as soon as my film arrives from Sweden. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite
Adam, you embarrass yourself with such posts. We sought, and received permission to search the Cement factory, and they were excited for us when we found it. Morten Bilet is Norwegian, and spoke to everyone, who had seen him on TV and in the newspaper every day. Please contain your usual poisonous emails since you are too lazy to go on real hunts yourself. I know you are pissed that you didn't go, and you hate to see me making money on sales. But as an IMCA board member, I would expect more courtesy from a person like you. The fact that you are a board member is one main reason why I will not join the IMCA. Matt Morgan also posted that it was illegal to remove meteorites from Norway when I posted that we had found one, which is not true of course. It seems that other dealers feel no need to show professional courtesy to successful hunters anymore. Are you going to now accuse Morten Bilet of being a thief? You had better get your facts strait before you make such accusations. Michael Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:00 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite Dear List, I thought the laws that cover meteorites in Norway mean that they belong to whom's property they fell on. I wonder if permission was sought in the case of the pieces recovered on private property at the cement factory? If not, I am sure a legal claim could be brought forth. If a meteorite fell on my property and somebody came along without permission and took it, I would be pretty upset. Just a horrible thought, how about it Mike? Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite
YAWN,, Adam, I love how you think you are the king of the mole hill, you are not however. Get a life, take your request for written permission and put it where your hot air seems to come from. List members, look how long it took before Adam jumped in with this crap, about 2 hours is all it took. Adam, get a life dude, you need help. Michal Mazur can do whatever he wants, it is his business. He is also selling $20,000 pieces, so if it is cheaper, go for it. I am here, in the USA, I can ship now, or you can wait on someone else to make up their mind what they want to do. Not my problem. When permission is given it can not be revoked 3 weeks later. Even your lawyers should be able to tell you that. Keep it up though, it shows this entire list what an IMCA board member is about. Michael Farmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:25 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite Who is Mike Mazur?, he is the one offering a better deal. Lets see your written permission. Any treasure hunter and professional knows that you need it in writing to avoid future conflict which happens all of time. If the owner(s) of the cement company knew you were seeking $200.00 a gram or $70,000.00 he may be inclined to retract any verbal permission given. Adam - Original Message - From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite > Oh Adam, go to bed, you are showing everyone on this > list what an ASS you can be. Show me who is selling > cheaper. Why do you say "The origional finder" While > Morten Bilet and I found it together, about 3 feet > from each other, so I would say we are both origional > finders. The only fall you have ever chased is Park > Forest, and you found nothing. > Adam, leave me alone, you would have a lot less stress > in your life if you stayed out of my business. > Again, you look like an idiot with these accusations. > Good night. > Mike Farmer > > > > --- Adam Hupe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Translated reports reported to the List state that > > these meteorites were > > stolen. I am just making sure since the original > > finder of the cement > > factory pieces is offering specimens for somewhat > > less. It is always good to > > double check these things as you know from Park > > Forest. I hope you got > > permission in writing is all I have to say. My days > > of chasing falls in > > over unless they fall somewhat nearby. When are the > > initial lab results do > > out? > > > > Adam > > > > > > ----- Original Message - > > From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "'Adam Hupe'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:06 PM > > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] MOSS Meteorite > > > > > > > Adam, you embarrass yourself with such posts. We > > sought, and received > > > permission to search the Cement factory, and they > > were excited for us when > > > we found it. Morten Bilet is Norwegian, and spoke > > to everyone, who had > > seen > > > him on TV and in the newspaper every day. > > > Please contain your usual poisonous emails since > > you are too lazy to go on > > > real hunts yourself. I know you are pissed that > > you didn't go, and you > > hate > > > to see me making money on sales. But as an IMCA > > board member, I would > > expect > > > more courtesy from a person like you. The fact > > that you are a board member > > > is one main reason why I will not join the IMCA. > > Matt Morgan also posted > > > that it was illegal to remove meteorites from > > Norway when I posted that we > > > had found one, which is not true of course. It > > seems that other dealers > > feel > > > no need to show professional courtesy to > > successful hunters anymore. > > > Are you going to now accuse Morten Bilet of being > > a thief? > > > You had better get your facts strait before you > > make such accusations. > > > Michael Farmer > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On Behalf Of Adam > > Hupe > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:00 PM > > > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > &g
Re: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite
Hello Bernd, I have read different stats for the kakangariites than you have stated. My sources are Classification of Meteorites, Krot, Keil, Goodrich, Scott, and Weisberg (from Treatise on Geochemistry 1, 2005); The K chondrite grouplet, Weisberg, Prinz, Clayton, Mayeda, Grady Franchi, Pillinger, and Kallemeyn (GCA 1996); and The Textures and Abundances of Chondrules in the Kakangari Chondrite, Genge and Grady (LPSC 24 #1670). Newer information has discredited Lea Co 002 from being a member of this grouplet, so now there are only Kakangari and LEW 87232 - perhaps that has skewed some numbers you referenced. Here are my stats for features of these two members which can be measured outside of the lab for the most part: chondrule size peak is 0.25-0.5 mm 70-77 vol% matrix content metal content similar to H chondrites (6-9 vol%) sulfides 6-10 vol% CAIs less than 0.1 vol% (0.05 - 0.4 mm) D17O (when conducted) should be -1.6 The high metal (as indicated by the numerous rust spots) is unlike that of a CK I think. I haven't investigated its similarity to COs since that is the ongoing hypothesis of its class and I can live with that. Obviously it will take a lab to know what Moss is, but a kakangariite is not out of the running in my opinion. David [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... There is not very much I can say about the Moss meteorite as I don't know it in person - I've only seen some pictures so far. It looks very much like a CO or a CK chondrite. I don't believe it is a Kakangari-like meteorite (see David Weir's previous post to the List) but if it was one, that would be a blast, of course! If it is a KAK, it should have some of these characteristics: - its oxidation state resembles that of enstatite chondrites - there is a high abundance of pyroxene (more than olivine) - its oxygen isotopes are comparable to those of CH or CR chondrites - a high metal content similar to that of H chondrites. If Jeff Kuyken's observation (see his website) about Moss chondrule size is correct, 0.25-0.30 mm, this would favor a CO classification. CK chondrites tend to have a chondrule size of 0.8 mm. KAK meteorites have a chondrule size of 0.69 mm (according to Hutchison). Jeff's estimate of the volume of chondrules (about 50%) would also favor a CO classification (40 vol %) instead of 15 vol % for CK's or 19% for KAK. Whatever it is, it is a beautiful, pristine new fall ... Cheers, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite
Hi Bernd, David and all, Whatever this meteorite is, it's certainly a very interesting one. Bernd's description of "enigmatic" is quite appropriate. Since I have never personally seen a K-Chondrite, it didn't even cross my mind. But I did some reading after David's Kakangari suggestion and must say that I too don't think it could be ruled out. At least at face value. I checked Moss's attraction to a magnet and it was surprisingly VERY strong. I have a piece of Ornans almost exactly the same size and it is not even close to being as attracted. Maybe it's an anomalous C-Chondrite? But we can speculate as much as we like. Right now the proper science is being done so hopefully we'll hear soon what this intriguing new fall is. Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: David Weir To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite Hello Bernd, I have read different stats for the kakangariites than you have stated. My sources are Classification of Meteorites, Krot, Keil, Goodrich, Scott, and Weisberg (from Treatise on Geochemistry 1, 2005); The K chondrite grouplet, Weisberg, Prinz, Clayton, Mayeda, Grady Franchi, Pillinger, and Kallemeyn (GCA 1996); and The Textures and Abundances of Chondrules in the Kakangari Chondrite, Genge and Grady (LPSC 24 #1670). Newer information has discredited Lea Co 002 from being a member of this grouplet, so now there are only Kakangari and LEW 87232 - perhaps that has skewed some numbers you referenced. Here are my stats for features of these two members which can be measured outside of the lab for the most part: chondrule size peak is 0.25-0.5 mm 70-77 vol% matrix content metal content similar to H chondrites (6-9 vol%) sulfides 6-10 vol% CAIs less than 0.1 vol% (0.05 - 0.4 mm) D17O (when conducted) should be -1.6 The high metal (as indicated by the numerous rust spots) is unlike that of a CK I think. I haven't investigated its similarity to COs since that is the ongoing hypothesis of its class and I can live with that. Obviously it will take a lab to know what Moss is, but a kakangariite is not out of the running in my opinion. David [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... > There is not very much I can say about the Moss meteorite as I don't > know it in person - I've only seen some pictures so far. It looks > very much like a CO or a CK chondrite. I don't believe it is a > Kakangari-like meteorite (see David Weir's previous post to the List) > but if it was one, that would be a blast, of course! If it is a KAK, > it should have some of these characteristics: > > - its oxidation state resembles that of enstatite chondrites - there > is a high abundance of pyroxene (more than olivine) - its oxygen > isotopes are comparable to those of CH or CR chondrites - a high > metal content similar to that of H chondrites. > > If Jeff Kuyken's observation (see his website) about Moss chondrule > size is correct, 0.25-0.30 mm, this would favor a CO classification. > CK chondrites tend to have a chondrule size of 0.8 mm. KAK meteorites > have a chondrule size of 0.69 mm (according to Hutchison). Jeff's > estimate of the volume of chondrules (about 50%) would also favor a > CO classification (40 vol %) instead of 15 vol % for CK's or 19% for > KAK. Whatever it is, it is a beautiful, pristine new fall ... > > Cheers, > > Bernd > > __ Meteorite-list mailing > list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite - Preliminary Observations
Hello Jeff and List, Beautiful, fresh fragment - pristine as if it had fallen a few seconds ago ...very impressive! Thanks for sharing so quickly! It looks so "coaly" that, if I were to judge from the pictures alone, I'd lean towards a CK (maybe CK3) chondrite. Yes I know, there are fresh FeNi metal flecks and I haven't seen it in person but, on the other hand, one of my NWA CKs, NWA 521 (CK4) does have some metal "pockets" and, moreover, there are minute metal specks and metal "spray" throughout. Sincere congrats on such a fine addition to your collection! Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Moss meteorite sales suspended.
I will not be selling any more Moss meteorite until the classification data is in. I finally decided to polish a piece tonight, and am stunned at what I see. It is unlike and meteorite I have seen, full of metal flecks, large crystals of what I assume is olivine, but I am not sure, and not much of anything I would call a chondrule. This one could turn out to be something we have never seen before. Michael Farmer. All orders have been shipped if paid for but I will no longer accept orders until I know more about this one. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] MOSS meteorite link, webpage up.
Hi everyone, well, I have loaded a webpage I rapidly built using some photos that Morten Bilet was kind enough to send me until my own rolls of film arrive from Sweden next week sometime. http://www.meteoriteguy.com/catalog/moss.htm you can see the impact site and where we found our meteorite. some pieces are listed for sale, but I have many more although they are selling very fast. Michael Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite - The uncut story...
Against my better judgement, I feel that I should report on my knowledge of the laws in Norway. It is clear that meteorites found on property belong to the land owner (although this has never been tested). The land owner can, of course, give permission, in which case, the meteorites belong to the finder according to whatever deal they've made. Good for Mike and Morten. Meteorites on public property apparently belong to the finder although the state may be able to make a case in certain circumstances such as parks or 'crown' land. Again, this has never been tested and is unlikely to come about. This material does not currently fall under the category of cultural property however Elen Roaldset at UiO would like to make it that way. It seems that different people were given different stories by the same authorities. As to 'whose piece was rained' on, I wouldn't let it affect your decision to buy or not to buy from a particular dealer. All of this material is beautifully fresh and I expect that most people will not notice the differences in oxidation unless they're really critical. If it's really crucial to the discussion one can (I don't have time or really care to) check the archived weather data for Moss to see when it did and didn't rain. In the end, find a piece that you like at the right price and buy it from someone you feel comfortable with. Will more material be found? Quite possibly. I can't believe that the strewn field has been searched out at this point but I also wouldn't expect huge additional quantities to be recovered and make it to market. It is challenging to find anything there and most has been lost to water hazards. Locals may find more in their backyards but there is a very high chance that that material will go to an institution. Which, given the way that this material seems to be affecting people, is not a bad thing at all. The University of Oslo seems to be quite keen to learn what they need to do with this material scientifically. While I might not agree with their stance on new laws, I do admire the initiative that they're starting to show with regards to learning about what should be done with the material. I will also add that all of this discussion has made me decide to donate more material to an institution. I just haven't decided which one yet. I guess that's it for the new telescope ;-) . At least my wife will be happy. Have fun, Mike __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite From A Comet?
Hello Rick and List, As you are new on this List, I don't really know who I am talking to, how old or how young you are, how much you know about meteorites and comets, if you already have any meteorites, whether you have already read any books about meteorites, etc., etc. Maybe you would like to introduce yourself to us and tell us a little bit about you. Thank you in advance! Your question is interesting and intriguing. Theoretically, some meteorites may have a cometary origin but so far they have not been found or recognized yet. If there are cometary meteorites in our collections, scientists expect them to have come from the so-called Kuiper belt beyond 30 AU. Their silicates should be anhydrous, highly unequilibrated, their chemistry would resemble that of chondrites but there would be a high amount of C and N. But if these cometary meteorites were altered through the influence of flowing water so far out in our Solar System, the most likely candidates here on Earth would be the CI carbonaceous chondrites. Some xenolithic inclusions in ordinary chondrite regolith breccias are also suspects for a cometary origin. You will probably have seen a Perseid fireball but no matter what you saw, some scientists say that many shower meteors can be as dense as carbonaceous chondrites or even as dense as ordinary chondrites. Especially interesting is the fall of the CI chondrite Revelstoke because it could be an example of a weak cometary meteorite. A fireball was observed for hundreds of kilometers and atmospheric effects were measured nearly 1500 km away. The fireball must have been as energetic as the Sikhote-Alin meteorite. The SA fireball produced several craters and tons of meteoritic irons but all that was found of the Revelstoke fireball was less than a gram of friable black rock. If there are cometary meteorites in our collections, here are some of the criteria they should meet: a) as rare as CI carbonaceous chondrites b) dark + weak c) highly porous + low density (ca. 2 g/cm3) d) nearly solar abundances e) high abundance of C, N, and organic compounds f) anhydrous silicates g) highly unequilibrated silicates h) very large abundance of interstellar grains i) chondrules and CAIs should be rare or absent It is so difficult to identify cometary meteorites in case they already exist in our collections because they could easily be misclassified as achondrites. There are indeed achondrites like the acapulcoites, lodranites, brachinites, winonaites that have chondritic chemical abundances, and there are C-rich achondrites, for example the ureilites. And now back to your question: Is the Moss meteorite from a comet? Let's *suppose* some cometary meteorites do contain chondrules, then C-rich, highly unequilibrated CO, CV, or ordinary chondrites might be good candidates according to: CAMPINS H. and SWINDLE T. (1998) Expected characteristics of cometary meteorites (MAPS 33-6, 1998, pp. 1201-1211). In other words, in that case even the Moss meteorite - if it should really be classified as a CO.x (preferentially "x" should be 1, 2, or 3) - could be of cometary parentage. Hope this helps ;-) Best regards, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] moss meteorite for private collecters
Good evening list.I just talked to bob haag and another good friend in the meteorite community and I am getting 2 different sides as to what is available for private collecters.This concerns the amount of the new MOSS meteorite that is available.We all know that there so far has been found around 3.1 kilo's so far,and that might be it.Bob haag told me that with some of the big specimens all are going to museums,others are staying put in private collections,and after that there will be less than a kilo for most private collecters.Well good news for me is got my 2.62 gram fragment with crust from mike farmer.So I got my piece of the pie.But on the other end,another friend told me that he alone could get a kilo if he wanted to.Ok so where is that coming from,if there is less that a kilo to the private sector? I need to be educated on this matter.Any help will help! steve arnold,chicago,usa!!Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com Illinois meteorites,since 1999! Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.__ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite - Preliminary Observations
Hi Bernd & all, Very interesting point Bernd. The consistancy of Moss does appear more like Karoonda for example than any CO I've personally seen. We can only speculate at this stage though. Hopefully there may be some preliminary results through soon. Either way it's a very unsual and interesting meteorite. Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:42 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite - Preliminary Observations Hello Jeff and List, Beautiful, fresh fragment - pristine as if it had fallen a few seconds ago ...very impressive! Thanks for sharing so quickly! It looks so "coaly" that, if I were to judge from the pictures alone, I'd lean towards a CK (maybe CK3) chondrite. Yes I know, there are fresh FeNi metal flecks and I haven't seen it in person but, on the other hand, one of my NWA CKs, NWA 521 (CK4) does have some metal "pockets" and, moreover, there are minute metal specks and metal "spray" throughout. Sincere congrats on such a fine addition to your collection! Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite - Preliminary Observations
Hello, The following link is a photo of my ~2 g piece of "Moss". After studying it and comparing it to my ~1 g Kakangari specimen, and reading what the experts say about Kakangari, I think there are actually many similarities. I'm hoping that we have a new kakangariite, but odds are that it is what has been espoused already by so many in the know, a CO3. David http://meteoritestudies.com/MOSS.JPG Jeff Kuyken wrote: Hi Bernd & all, Very interesting point Bernd. The consistancy of Moss does appear more like Karoonda for example than any CO I've personally seen. We can only speculate at this stage though. Hopefully there may be some preliminary results through soon. Either way it's a very unsual and interesting meteorite. Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:42 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite - Preliminary Observations Hello Jeff and List, Beautiful, fresh fragment - pristine as if it had fallen a few seconds ago ...very impressive! Thanks for sharing so quickly! It looks so "coaly" that, if I were to judge from the pictures alone, I'd lean towards a CK (maybe CK3) chondrite. Yes I know, there are fresh FeNi metal flecks and I haven't seen it in person but, on the other hand, one of my NWA CKs, NWA 521 (CK4) does have some metal "pockets" and, moreover, there are minute metal specks and metal "spray" throughout. Sincere congrats on such a fine addition to your collection! Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] moss meteorite for private collecters
List, Take a look at my page, there is some information on this theme. And I actually think this is the most correct figure among all given, so far. http://home.online.no/~bsoerhei/astro/meteor/060714/moss.html See also my previous postings in August. Could even be M. Bilet would like to update his own figure from his last posting on the theme, but only he knows... Regards, Bjørn Sørheim > From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 2006-08-26 02:57:02 CEST > To: Dave Carothers [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Arnold Chicago!! [EMAIL PROTECTED], meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] moss meteorite for private collecters > > Good luck to this "friend" who thinks he can get a > kilo. If you pay $200 gram to the owners of the ~680 > gram fragment, and the other two guys Bjorn Sorheim > and Michael Mazur who refuse to admit how much > material they have. There is perhaps a kilo to come > out, but seeing is believing I like to say. > This meteorite is rare enough that I sold over 20 > grams today to NASA for study, so there it is. > I do have more pieces, but not many with fusion crust > left, most are under a gram, but a couple in the 2 to > 4 gram range I think and a couple of larger pieces. > Some people have asked where my website page for MOSS > went. Well, I pulled it because I have no photos yet, > the two I used before are not mine, and they show the > location, which I and my partners do not want shown > yet, as one of them is still searching the area, and > why show the competition the treasure chest until it > is cleaned out? So I expect my film rolls to arrice > next week and will build a better page for Moss. > Besides, we might have a tentative classification by > middle of next week. > Michael Farmer > > --- Dave Carothers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > Steve, > > > > A thought comes to mind Why don't you ask your > > friend where he is > > getting a kilo of Moss. > > > > Dave > > - Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve Arnold, Chicago!!" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:21 PM > > Subject: [meteorite-list] moss meteorite for private > > collecters > > > > > > > Good evening list.I just talked to bob haag and > > another good friend in the > > meteorite community and I am getting 2 different > > sides as to what is > > available for private collecters.This concerns the > > amount of the new MOSS > > meteorite that is available.We all know that there > > so far has been found > > around 3.1 kilo's so far,and that might be it.Bob > > haag told me that with > > some of the big specimens all are going to > > museums,others are staying put in > > private collections,and after that there will be > > less than a kilo for most > > private collecters.Well good news for me is got my > > 2.62 gram fragment with > > crust from mike farmer.So I got my piece of the > > pie.But on the other > > end,another friend told me that he alone could get a > > kilo if he wanted to.Ok > > so where is that coming from,if there is less that a > > kilo to the private > > sector? I need to be educated on this matter.Any > > help will help! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > steve > > arnold,chicago,usa!! > > > > > > > > > Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 > > > > > > > > > website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com > > > > > > > > > Illinois meteorites,since 1999! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Get on board. You're invited to try the new > > Yahoo! Mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Moss meteorite sales suspended.
How about some pics, Mike?! From: Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Moss meteorite sales suspended. Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 21:56:38 -0700 (PDT) I will not be selling any more Moss meteorite until the classification data is in. I finally decided to polish a piece tonight, and am stunned at what I see. It is unlike and meteorite I have seen, full of metal flecks, large crystals of what I assume is olivine, but I am not sure, and not much of anything I would call a chondrule. This one could turn out to be something we have never seen before. Michael Farmer. All orders have been shipped if paid for but I will no longer accept orders until I know more about this one. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Click here to pick out the perfect PC for work or play http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca/content/shp/?ctId=507,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=081802 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Moss meteorite sales suspended.
Sounds super cool. Would love to see some photos --- Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I will not be selling any more Moss meteorite until > the classification data is in. I finally decided to > polish a piece tonight, and am stunned at what I > see. > It is unlike and meteorite I have seen, full of > metal > flecks, large crystals of what I assume is olivine, > but I am not sure, and not much of anything I would > call a chondrule. > This one could turn out to be something we have > never > seen before. > Michael Farmer. > All orders have been shipped if paid for but I will > no > longer accept orders until I know more about this > one. > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Moss meteorite sales suspended.
I cant do it tonight, photos in the nighttime are impossible, I will try tomorrow, but the matrix is so fine, I am not sure my camera can handle it. Mike --- dean bessey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sounds super cool. Would love to see some photos > > > > > > --- Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I will not be selling any more Moss meteorite > until > > the classification data is in. I finally decided > to > > polish a piece tonight, and am stunned at what I > > see. > > It is unlike and meteorite I have seen, full of > > metal > > flecks, large crystals of what I assume is > olivine, > > but I am not sure, and not much of anything I > would > > call a chondrule. > > This one could turn out to be something we have > > never > > seen before. > > Michael Farmer. > > All orders have been shipped if paid for but I > will > > no > > longer accept orders until I know more about this > > one. > > > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite Fall Hammer Stone question ?
Hello Listers I have been wondering about the Moss fall and had some questions. I know out of the stones recovered, most of them are Hammer Stones, and a couple arnt. I now that Mike Farmer found a nice stone that hit pavement, making it a non hammer stone. I have also read that a couple of these stones were donated. One stone I have a question about is the one that hit the fence. I was wondering, the two people that found the meteorite that hit the fence, was it Mazur and Sorheim? If anyone has any information on this please let me know on the list of email :) Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 ebay store http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633nyc/m.html Website http://meteoritefalls.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MOSS meteorite link, webpage up.
Hi Mike, Thanks for the great pictures! Sonny -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 4:54 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] MOSS meteorite link, webpage up. Hi everyone, well, I have loaded a webpage I rapidly built using some photos that Morten Bilet was kind enough to send me until my own rolls of film arrive from Sweden next week sometime. http://www.meteoriteguy.com/catalog/moss.htm you can see the impact site and where we found our meteorite. some pieces are listed for sale, but I have many more although they are selling very fast. Michael Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite From A Comet?
Howdy Bernd, Rick & all, Just curious because I recently read somewhere (maybe this list actually but can't remember) that the CH (or CB?) chondrites may now be the best match to a cometary origin. I think this was after Deep Impact. Anyone remember or know more? Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 6:46 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite From A Comet? Hello Rick and List, As you are new on this List, I don't really know who I am talking to, how old or how young you are, how much you know about meteorites and comets, if you already have any meteorites, whether you have already read any books about meteorites, etc., etc. Maybe you would like to introduce yourself to us and tell us a little bit about you. Thank you in advance! Your question is interesting and intriguing. Theoretically, some meteorites may have a cometary origin but so far they have not been found or recognized yet. If there are cometary meteorites in our collections, scientists expect them to have come from the so-called Kuiper belt beyond 30 AU. Their silicates should be anhydrous, highly unequilibrated, their chemistry would resemble that of chondrites but there would be a high amount of C and N. But if these cometary meteorites were altered through the influence of flowing water so far out in our Solar System, the most likely candidates here on Earth would be the CI carbonaceous chondrites. Some xenolithic inclusions in ordinary chondrite regolith breccias are also suspects for a cometary origin. You will probably have seen a Perseid fireball but no matter what you saw, some scientists say that many shower meteors can be as dense as carbonaceous chondrites or even as dense as ordinary chondrites. Especially interesting is the fall of the CI chondrite Revelstoke because it could be an example of a weak cometary meteorite. A fireball was observed for hundreds of kilometers and atmospheric effects were measured nearly 1500 km away. The fireball must have been as energetic as the Sikhote-Alin meteorite. The SA fireball produced several craters and tons of meteoritic irons but all that was found of the Revelstoke fireball was less than a gram of friable black rock. If there are cometary meteorites in our collections, here are some of the criteria they should meet: a) as rare as CI carbonaceous chondrites b) dark + weak c) highly porous + low density (ca. 2 g/cm3) d) nearly solar abundances e) high abundance of C, N, and organic compounds f) anhydrous silicates g) highly unequilibrated silicates h) very large abundance of interstellar grains i) chondrules and CAIs should be rare or absent It is so difficult to identify cometary meteorites in case they already exist in our collections because they could easily be misclassified as achondrites. There are indeed achondrites like the acapulcoites, lodranites, brachinites, winonaites that have chondritic chemical abundances, and there are C-rich achondrites, for example the ureilites. And now back to your question: Is the Moss meteorite from a comet? Let's *suppose* some cometary meteorites do contain chondrules, then C-rich, highly unequilibrated CO, CV, or ordinary chondrites might be good candidates according to: CAMPINS H. and SWINDLE T. (1998) Expected characteristics of cometary meteorites (MAPS 33-6, 1998, pp. 1201-1211). In other words, in that case even the Moss meteorite - if it should really be classified as a CO.x (preferentially "x" should be 1, 2, or 3) - could be of cometary parentage. Hope this helps ;-) Best regards, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite From A Comet?
Hi Jeff: Read the May issue of Mereorite magazine. An article by Swindle and Campins. Larry Quoting Jeff Kuyken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Howdy Bernd, Rick & all, > > Just curious because I recently read somewhere (maybe this list actually but > can't remember) that the CH (or CB?) chondrites may now be the best match to > a cometary origin. I think this was after Deep Impact. Anyone remember or > know more? > > Cheers, > > Jeff > > - Original Message - > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 6:46 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite From A Comet? > > > Hello Rick and List, > > As you are new on this List, I don't really know who I am talking to, how > old or how young you are, how much you know about meteorites and comets, > if you already have any meteorites, whether you have already read any books > about meteorites, etc., etc. Maybe you would like to introduce yourself to > us and tell us a little bit about you. Thank you in advance! > > Your question is interesting and intriguing. Theoretically, some meteorites > may have a cometary origin but so far they have not been found or recognized > yet. > If there are cometary meteorites in our collections, scientists expect them > to > have come from the so-called Kuiper belt beyond 30 AU. > > Their silicates should be anhydrous, highly unequilibrated, their chemistry > would > resemble that of chondrites but there would be a high amount of C and N. But > if > these cometary meteorites were altered through the influence of flowing > water so > far out in our Solar System, the most likely candidates here on Earth would > be > the CI carbonaceous chondrites. > > Some xenolithic inclusions in ordinary chondrite regolith breccias are also > suspects for a cometary origin. > > You will probably have seen a Perseid fireball but no matter what you saw, > some scientists say that many shower meteors can be as dense as carbonaceous > chondrites or even as dense as ordinary chondrites. > > Especially interesting is the fall of the CI chondrite Revelstoke because it > could be an example of a weak cometary meteorite. A fireball was observed > for > hundreds of kilometers and atmospheric effects were measured nearly 1500 km > away. The fireball must have been as energetic as the Sikhote-Alin > meteorite. > The SA fireball produced several craters and tons of meteoritic irons but > all > that was found of the Revelstoke fireball was less than a gram of friable > black > rock. > > If there are cometary meteorites in our collections, > here are some of the criteria they should meet: > > a) as rare as CI carbonaceous chondrites > b) dark + weak > c) highly porous + low density (ca. 2 g/cm3) > d) nearly solar abundances > e) high abundance of C, N, and organic compounds > f) anhydrous silicates > g) highly unequilibrated silicates > h) very large abundance of interstellar grains > i) chondrules and CAIs should be rare or absent > > It is so difficult to identify cometary meteorites in case they already > exist > in our collections because they could easily be misclassified as > achondrites. > There are indeed achondrites like the acapulcoites, lodranites, brachinites, > winonaites that have chondritic chemical abundances, and there are C-rich > achondrites, for example the ureilites. > > And now back to your question: Is the Moss meteorite from a comet? > > Let's *suppose* some cometary meteorites do contain chondrules, then C-rich, > highly unequilibrated CO, CV, or ordinary chondrites might be good > candidates > according to: > > CAMPINS H. and SWINDLE T. (1998) Expected characteristics > of cometary meteorites (MAPS 33-6, 1998, pp. 1201-1211). > > In other words, in that case even the Moss meteorite - if it should really > be classified as a CO.x (preferentially "x" should be 1, 2, or 3) - could > be of cometary parentage. > > Hope this helps ;-) > > > Best regards, > > Bernd > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite From A Comet?
Hi, Well one thing is certain, the definition of what a comet actually is, is changing very quickly, what used to be considered 'a dirty snowball' is now looking more like a snowy dirtball, (with hard bits and soft bits). 'Comets' seem to have a range of densities and types, so how would we really know if we had a piece of 'comet' in our collections? besides it being 'primitive material' due to it origin (CI etc) we would need to have known multiple samples of multiple comets before we could say for sure. I find it hard to believe that some fragments of cometry origin don't exist in our collections however. Best, Mark Ford - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 6:46 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite From A Comet? Hello Rick and List, As you are new on this List, I don't really know who I am talking to, how old or how young you are, how much you know about meteorites and comets, if you already have any meteorites, whether you have already read any books about meteorites, etc., etc. Maybe you would like to introduce yourself to us and tell us a little bit about you. Thank you in advance! Your question is interesting and intriguing. Theoretically, some meteorites may have a cometary origin but so far they have not been found or recognized yet. If there are cometary meteorites in our collections, scientists expect them to have come from the so-called Kuiper belt beyond 30 AU. Their silicates should be anhydrous, highly unequilibrated, their chemistry would resemble that of chondrites but there would be a high amount of C and N. But if these cometary meteorites were altered through the influence of flowing water so far out in our Solar System, the most likely candidates here on Earth would be the CI carbonaceous chondrites. Some xenolithic inclusions in ordinary chondrite regolith breccias are also suspects for a cometary origin. You will probably have seen a Perseid fireball but no matter what you saw, some scientists say that many shower meteors can be as dense as carbonaceous chondrites or even as dense as ordinary chondrites. Especially interesting is the fall of the CI chondrite Revelstoke because it could be an example of a weak cometary meteorite. A fireball was observed for hundreds of kilometers and atmospheric effects were measured nearly 1500 km away. The fireball must have been as energetic as the Sikhote-Alin meteorite. The SA fireball produced several craters and tons of meteoritic irons but all that was found of the Revelstoke fireball was less than a gram of friable black rock. If there are cometary meteorites in our collections, here are some of the criteria they should meet: a) as rare as CI carbonaceous chondrites b) dark + weak c) highly porous + low density (ca. 2 g/cm3) d) nearly solar abundances e) high abundance of C, N, and organic compounds f) anhydrous silicates g) highly unequilibrated silicates h) very large abundance of interstellar grains i) chondrules and CAIs should be rare or absent It is so difficult to identify cometary meteorites in case they already exist in our collections because they could easily be misclassified as achondrites. There are indeed achondrites like the acapulcoites, lodranites, brachinites, winonaites that have chondritic chemical abundances, and there are C-rich achondrites, for example the ureilites. And now back to your question: Is the Moss meteorite from a comet? Let's *suppose* some cometary meteorites do contain chondrules, then C-rich, highly unequilibrated CO, CV, or ordinary chondrites might be good candidates according to: CAMPINS H. and SWINDLE T. (1998) Expected characteristics of cometary meteorites (MAPS 33-6, 1998, pp. 1201-1211). In other words, in that case even the Moss meteorite - if it should really be classified as a CO.x (preferentially "x" should be 1, 2, or 3) - could be of cometary parentage. Hope this helps ;-) Best regards, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] moss meteorite for private collecters
Steve, A thought comes to mind Why don't you ask your friend where he is getting a kilo of Moss. Dave - Original Message - From: "Steve Arnold, Chicago!!" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:21 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] moss meteorite for private collecters > Good evening list.I just talked to bob haag and another good friend in the meteorite community and I am getting 2 different sides as to what is available for private collecters.This concerns the amount of the new MOSS meteorite that is available.We all know that there so far has been found around 3.1 kilo's so far,and that might be it.Bob haag told me that with some of the big specimens all are going to museums,others are staying put in private collections,and after that there will be less than a kilo for most private collecters.Well good news for me is got my 2.62 gram fragment with crust from mike farmer.So I got my piece of the pie.But on the other end,another friend told me that he alone could get a kilo if he wanted to.Ok so where is that coming from,if there is less that a kilo to the private sector? I need to be educated on this matter.Any help will help! > > > > steve arnold,chicago,usa!! > > > Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 > > > website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com > > > Illinois meteorites,since 1999! > > > > > > > > > > > - > Do you Yahoo!? > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] moss meteorite for private collecters
Good luck to this "friend" who thinks he can get a kilo. If you pay $200 gram to the owners of the ~680 gram fragment, and the other two guys Bjorn Sorheim and Michael Mazur who refuse to admit how much material they have. There is perhaps a kilo to come out, but seeing is believing I like to say. This meteorite is rare enough that I sold over 20 grams today to NASA for study, so there it is. I do have more pieces, but not many with fusion crust left, most are under a gram, but a couple in the 2 to 4 gram range I think and a couple of larger pieces. Some people have asked where my website page for MOSS went. Well, I pulled it because I have no photos yet, the two I used before are not mine, and they show the location, which I and my partners do not want shown yet, as one of them is still searching the area, and why show the competition the treasure chest until it is cleaned out? So I expect my film rolls to arrice next week and will build a better page for Moss. Besides, we might have a tentative classification by middle of next week. Michael Farmer --- Dave Carothers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Steve, > > A thought comes to mind Why don't you ask your > friend where he is > getting a kilo of Moss. > > Dave > - Original Message - > From: "Steve Arnold, Chicago!!" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:21 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] moss meteorite for private > collecters > > > > Good evening list.I just talked to bob haag and > another good friend in the > meteorite community and I am getting 2 different > sides as to what is > available for private collecters.This concerns the > amount of the new MOSS > meteorite that is available.We all know that there > so far has been found > around 3.1 kilo's so far,and that might be it.Bob > haag told me that with > some of the big specimens all are going to > museums,others are staying put in > private collections,and after that there will be > less than a kilo for most > private collecters.Well good news for me is got my > 2.62 gram fragment with > crust from mike farmer.So I got my piece of the > pie.But on the other > end,another friend told me that he alone could get a > kilo if he wanted to.Ok > so where is that coming from,if there is less that a > kilo to the private > sector? I need to be educated on this matter.Any > help will help! > > > > > > > > > steve > arnold,chicago,usa!! > > > > > > Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 > > > > > > website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com > > > > > > Illinois meteorites,since 1999! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Get on board. You're invited to try the new > Yahoo! Mail. > > > > > > > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] moss meteorite for private collecters
Dave Carothers wrote: Steve, A thought comes to mind Why don't you ask your friend where he is getting a kilo of Moss. Dave - Original Message - From: "Steve Arnold, Chicago!!" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:21 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] moss meteorite for private collecters Good evening list.I just talked to bob haag and another good friend in the meteorite community and I am getting 2 different sides as to what is available for private collecters.This concerns the amount of the new MOSS meteorite that is available.We all know that there so far has been found around 3.1 kilo's so far,and that might be it.Bob haag told me that with some of the big specimens all are going to museums,others are staying put in private collections,and after that there will be less than a kilo for most private collecters.Well good news for me is got my 2.62 gram fragment with crust from mike farmer.So I got my piece of the pie.But on the other end,another friend told me that he alone could get a kilo if he wanted to.Ok so where is that coming from,if there is less that a kilo to the private sector? I need to be educated on this matter.Any help will help! steve arnold,chicago,usa!! Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com Illinois meteorites,since 1999! - Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
SV: [meteorite-list] moss meteorite for private collecters
List, Take a look at my page, there is some information on this theme. And I actually think this is the most correct figure among all given, so far. http://home.online.no/~bsoerhei/astro/meteor/060714/moss.html See also my previous postings in August. Could even be M. Bilet would like to update his own figure from his last posting on the theme, but only he knows... Regards, Bjørn Sørheim > From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 2006-08-26 02:57:02 CEST > To: Dave Carothers [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Arnold Chicago!! [EMAIL > PROTECTED], meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] moss meteorite for private collecters > > Good luck to this "friend" who thinks he can get a > kilo. If you pay $200 gram to the owners of the ~680 > gram fragment, and the other two guys Bjorn Sorheim > and Michael Mazur who refuse to admit how much > material they have. There is perhaps a kilo to come > out, but seeing is believing I like to say. > This meteorite is rare enough that I sold over 20 > grams today to NASA for study, so there it is. > I do have more pieces, but not many with fusion crust > left, most are under a gram, but a couple in the 2 to > 4 gram range I think and a couple of larger pieces. > Some people have asked where my website page for MOSS > went. Well, I pulled it because I have no photos yet, > the two I used before are not mine, and they show the > location, which I and my partners do not want shown > yet, as one of them is still searching the area, and > why show the competition the treasure chest until it > is cleaned out? So I expect my film rolls to arrice > next week and will build a better page for Moss. > Besides, we might have a tentative classification by > middle of next week. > Michael Farmer > > --- Dave Carothers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > Steve, > > > > A thought comes to mind Why don't you ask your > > friend where he is > > getting a kilo of Moss. > > > > Dave > > ----- Original Message - > > From: "Steve Arnold, Chicago!!" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:21 PM > > Subject: [meteorite-list] moss meteorite for private > > collecters > > > > > > > Good evening list.I just talked to bob haag and > > another good friend in the > > meteorite community and I am getting 2 different > > sides as to what is > > available for private collecters.This concerns the > > amount of the new MOSS > > meteorite that is available.We all know that there > > so far has been found > > around 3.1 kilo's so far,and that might be it.Bob > > haag told me that with > > some of the big specimens all are going to > > museums,others are staying put in > > private collections,and after that there will be > > less than a kilo for most > > private collecters.Well good news for me is got my > > 2.62 gram fragment with > > crust from mike farmer.So I got my piece of the > > pie.But on the other > > end,another friend told me that he alone could get a > > kilo if he wanted to.Ok > > so where is that coming from,if there is less that a > > kilo to the private > > sector? I need to be educated on this matter.Any > > help will help! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > steve > > arnold,chicago,usa!! > > > > > > > > > Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 > > > > > > > > > website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com > > > > > > > > > Illinois meteorites,since 1999! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Get on board. You're invited to try the new > > Yahoo! Mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite an ungrouped carbonaceous chondrite?
Jeff Kuyken wrote: "Maybe it's just a C3 (ungrouped)? "ungrouped", ... Excellent idea, Jeff! My Coolidge (C4-ung) has plenty of free metal, the chondrules are the same color as the matrix and thus hard to recognize in hand sample - just like the chondrules in Moss and the chondrules are small ... with an average diameter 2 mm probably as small as the tiny ones Mike Farmer mentions. Cheers, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re-2: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite From A Comet?
"Comets ... being 'primitive material' ... we would need to have known multiple samples of multiple comets before we could say for sure." Hi Mark and List, I couldn't agree more and that's why I felt a bit uneasy when I read Campins' and Swindle's article in this issue of our METEORITE magazine: CAMPINS H. and SWINDLE T.D.(2006) Where are the cometary meteorites? (Meteorite, May 2006, Vol. 12, No.2, pp. 17-19). They solely refer repeatedly to Comet Halley and to Halley dust (plus to cometary IDPs). Many more comets need to be sampled before we can draw definite conclusions! Best, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: SV: [meteorite-list] moss meteorite for private collecters
Bjorn, Morten and I have told the weight of our find. Johannsons stone weight is known. Outhouse stone weight is known. Storage company stone's weight is known. The only stone which the weight is unkown is the stone you and Michael Mazur have. Morton can not update his known weight, nor can I if you refuse to tell the weight of the stone you have. What are you hiding from the list? Simply tell us the weight of the stone you recovered. Michael Farmer --- B Soerheim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > List, > Take a look at my page, there is some information on > this theme. And I actually think this is the most > correct > figure among all given, so far. > > http://home.online.no/~bsoerhei/astro/meteor/060714/moss.html > > See also my previous postings in August. > Could even be M. Bilet would like to update his own > figure from > his last posting on the theme, but only he knows... > > Regards, > Bjørn Sørheim > > > > From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: 2006-08-26 02:57:02 CEST > > To: Dave Carothers [EMAIL PROTECTED], > Steve Arnold Chicago!! [EMAIL PROTECTED], > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] moss meteorite for > private collecters > > > > Good luck to this "friend" who thinks he can get a > > kilo. If you pay $200 gram to the owners of the > ~680 > > gram fragment, and the other two guys Bjorn > Sorheim > > and Michael Mazur who refuse to admit how much > > material they have. There is perhaps a kilo to > come > > out, but seeing is believing I like to say. > > This meteorite is rare enough that I sold over 20 > > grams today to NASA for study, so there it is. > > I do have more pieces, but not many with fusion > crust > > left, most are under a gram, but a couple in the 2 > to > > 4 gram range I think and a couple of larger > pieces. > > Some people have asked where my website page for > MOSS > > went. Well, I pulled it because I have no photos > yet, > > the two I used before are not mine, and they show > the > > location, which I and my partners do not want > shown > > yet, as one of them is still searching the area, > and > > why show the competition the treasure chest until > it > > is cleaned out? So I expect my film rolls to > arrice > > next week and will build a better page for Moss. > > Besides, we might have a tentative classification > by > > middle of next week. > > Michael Farmer > > > > --- Dave Carothers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > A thought comes to mind Why don't you ask > your > > > friend where he is > > > getting a kilo of Moss. > > > > > > Dave > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Steve Arnold, Chicago!!" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:21 PM > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] moss meteorite for > private > > > collecters > > > > > > > > > > Good evening list.I just talked to bob haag > and > > > another good friend in the > > > meteorite community and I am getting 2 different > > > sides as to what is > > > available for private collecters.This concerns > the > > > amount of the new MOSS > > > meteorite that is available.We all know that > there > > > so far has been found > > > around 3.1 kilo's so far,and that might be > it.Bob > > > haag told me that with > > > some of the big specimens all are going to > > > museums,others are staying put in > > > private collections,and after that there will be > > > less than a kilo for most > > > private collecters.Well good news for me is got > my > > > 2.62 gram fragment with > > > crust from mike farmer.So I got my piece of the > > > pie.But on the other > > > end,another friend told me that he alone could > get a > > > kilo if he wanted to.Ok > > > so where is that coming from,if there is less > that a > > > kilo to the private > > > sector? I need to be educated on this matter.Any > > > help will help! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > steve > > > arnold,chicago,usa!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, > 60120 > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: Re-2: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite From A Comet?
Hi all: Defending Tim Swindle and Humberto Campins. I have known them for years and they are very conservative scientists. Their work is good and they are well- respected scientists. They do not go off (too often) to make wild, unsubstantiated, claims., hence, the conclusions in their article. They based their Meteorite paper (and their original scientific paper) on what we know. We have observations of many comets (Campins has done a lot of this), but we have "samples" from only one comet (Halley), are just now studying Stardust material (so too early to say much), and IDPs which are thought to be, at least in part, cometary in origin. Clearly, we need multiple samples from multiple comets --- good luck in our lifetime. Therefore you base your "theories" on the existing information, not onwhat you hope to have in the future. That is why people propose new missions to comets and asteroids! We know that not all comets are the same based on our observations and where we think they came from. Some of this may be because of how many times they have been close to the Sun, some may have to be related to where they came from (Kuiper Belt or Oort cloud), and some may have to do with where they were formed (which may not have been where we see them coming from). Clearly, a chunk of a "fresh" comet would look very different from a "dead" comet. Or, as been on this listserv recently, could we tell the difference between a chunk of a comet or a piece of Ceres? I am not sure I would be willing to say anything in print even though I have studied Ceres for years. What, from either, would we expect to make it through the atmosphere? Even if we were to bring back samples from two or three comets, I doubt if anyone I know would be willing to say (with respect to the composition of comets) that that was their "final answer." That is the nature of science. I really have to stop writing these a 5:00 in the morning, no breakfast and no soffee, but this is the quiet time of the day. Larry Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > "Comets ... being 'primitive material' ... we would need > to have known multiple samples of multiple comets before > we could say for sure." > > Hi Mark and List, > > I couldn't agree more and that's why I felt a bit uneasy when I read > Campins' and Swindle's article in this issue of our METEORITE magazine: > > CAMPINS H. and SWINDLE T.D.(2006) Where are the cometary > meteorites? (Meteorite, May 2006, Vol. 12, No.2, pp. 17-19). > > They solely refer repeatedly to Comet Halley and to Halley dust (plus to > cometary IDPs). Many more comets need to be sampled before we can draw > definite conclusions! > > Best, > > Bernd > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: Re-2: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite From A Comet?
Hi Larry, List - It appears we have at least one other comet sample: Cheimgau. good hunting, Ed --- Larry Lebofsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all: > > Defending Tim Swindle and Humberto Campins. I have > known them for years and > they are very conservative scientists. Their work is > good and they are well- > respected scientists. They do not go off (too often) > to make wild, > unsubstantiated, claims., hence, the conclusions in > their article. They based > their Meteorite paper (and their original scientific > paper) on what we know. > We have observations of many comets (Campins has > done a lot of this), but we > have "samples" from only one comet (Halley), are > just now studying Stardust > material (so too early to say much), and IDPs which > are thought to be, at > least in part, cometary in origin. > > Clearly, we need multiple samples from multiple > comets --- good luck in our > lifetime. Therefore you base your "theories" on the > existing information, not > onwhat you hope to have in the future. That is why > people propose new missions > to comets and asteroids! > > We know that not all comets are the same based on > our observations and where > we think they came from. Some of this may be because > of how many times they > have been close to the Sun, some may have to be > related to where they came > from (Kuiper Belt or Oort cloud), and some may have > to do with where they were > formed (which may not have been where we see them > coming from). Clearly, a > chunk of a "fresh" comet would look very different > from a "dead" comet. Or, as > been on this listserv recently, could we tell the > difference between a chunk > of a comet or a piece of Ceres? I am not sure I > would be willing to say > anything in print even though I have studied Ceres > for years. What, from > either, would we expect to make it through the > atmosphere? > > Even if we were to bring back samples from two or > three comets, I doubt if > anyone I know would be willing to say (with respect > to the composition of > comets) that that was their "final answer." That is > the nature of science. > > I really have to stop writing these a 5:00 in the > morning, no breakfast and no > soffee, but this is the quiet time of the day. > > Larry > > > > Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > > "Comets ... being 'primitive material' ... we > would need > > to have known multiple samples of multiple comets > before > > we could say for sure." > > > > Hi Mark and List, > > > > I couldn't agree more and that's why I felt a bit > uneasy when I read > > Campins' and Swindle's article in this issue of > our METEORITE magazine: > > > > CAMPINS H. and SWINDLE T.D.(2006) Where are the > cometary > > meteorites? (Meteorite, May 2006, Vol. 12, No.2, > pp. 17-19). > > > > They solely refer repeatedly to Comet Halley and > to Halley dust (plus to > > cometary IDPs). Many more comets need to be > sampled before we can draw > > definite conclusions! > > > > Best, > > > > Bernd > > > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: Re-2: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite From A Comet?
Hi Ed, not to dissapoint you, but since decades the Chiemgau-impact is brought up again and again, though until now not a sinlge scientific relevant proof was found or delivered, neither for the presumed impact pits and craters, nor for the recovered samples, which turned out to be terrestrial. Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von E.P. Grondine Gesendet: Montag, 21. August 2006 15:53 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: Re-2: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite From A Comet? Hi Larry, List - It appears we have at least one other comet sample: Cheimgau. good hunting, Ed --- Larry Lebofsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all: > > Defending Tim Swindle and Humberto Campins. I have > known them for years and > they are very conservative scientists. Their work is > good and they are well- > respected scientists. They do not go off (too often) > to make wild, > unsubstantiated, claims., hence, the conclusions in > their article. They based > their Meteorite paper (and their original scientific > paper) on what we know. > We have observations of many comets (Campins has > done a lot of this), but we > have "samples" from only one comet (Halley), are > just now studying Stardust > material (so too early to say much), and IDPs which > are thought to be, at > least in part, cometary in origin. > > Clearly, we need multiple samples from multiple > comets --- good luck in our > lifetime. Therefore you base your "theories" on the > existing information, not > onwhat you hope to have in the future. That is why > people propose new missions > to comets and asteroids! > > We know that not all comets are the same based on > our observations and where > we think they came from. Some of this may be because > of how many times they > have been close to the Sun, some may have to be > related to where they came > from (Kuiper Belt or Oort cloud), and some may have > to do with where they were > formed (which may not have been where we see them > coming from). Clearly, a > chunk of a "fresh" comet would look very different > from a "dead" comet. Or, as > been on this listserv recently, could we tell the > difference between a chunk > of a comet or a piece of Ceres? I am not sure I > would be willing to say > anything in print even though I have studied Ceres > for years. What, from > either, would we expect to make it through the > atmosphere? > > Even if we were to bring back samples from two or > three comets, I doubt if > anyone I know would be willing to say (with respect > to the composition of > comets) that that was their "final answer." That is > the nature of science. > > I really have to stop writing these a 5:00 in the > morning, no breakfast and no > soffee, but this is the quiet time of the day. > > Larry > > > > Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > > "Comets ... being 'primitive material' ... we > would need > > to have known multiple samples of multiple comets > before > > we could say for sure." > > > > Hi Mark and List, > > > > I couldn't agree more and that's why I felt a bit > uneasy when I read > > Campins' and Swindle's article in this issue of > our METEORITE magazine: > > > > CAMPINS H. and SWINDLE T.D.(2006) Where are the > cometary > > meteorites? (Meteorite, May 2006, Vol. 12, No.2, > pp. 17-19). > > > > They solely refer repeatedly to Comet Halley and > to Halley dust (plus to > > cometary IDPs). Many more comets need to be > sampled before we can draw > > definite conclusions! > > > > Best, > > > > Bernd > > > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: Re-2: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite From A Comet?
Hi Folks! We have to be very careful about the "Chiemgau Comet Impact". To my knowledge it's not clear, what we have there! Most scientist think, that this is not an impact field, only a hand full do. Ingo -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von E.P. Grondine Gesendet: Montag, 21. August 2006 15:53 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: Re-2: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite From A Comet? Hi Larry, List - It appears we have at least one other comet sample: Cheimgau. good hunting, Ed --- Larry Lebofsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all: > > Defending Tim Swindle and Humberto Campins. I have > known them for years and > they are very conservative scientists. Their work is > good and they are well- > respected scientists. They do not go off (too often) > to make wild, > unsubstantiated, claims., hence, the conclusions in > their article. They based > their Meteorite paper (and their original scientific > paper) on what we know. > We have observations of many comets (Campins has > done a lot of this), but we > have "samples" from only one comet (Halley), are > just now studying Stardust > material (so too early to say much), and IDPs which > are thought to be, at > least in part, cometary in origin. > > Clearly, we need multiple samples from multiple > comets --- good luck in our > lifetime. Therefore you base your "theories" on the > existing information, not > onwhat you hope to have in the future. That is why > people propose new missions > to comets and asteroids! > > We know that not all comets are the same based on > our observations and where > we think they came from. Some of this may be because > of how many times they > have been close to the Sun, some may have to be > related to where they came > from (Kuiper Belt or Oort cloud), and some may have > to do with where they were > formed (which may not have been where we see them > coming from). Clearly, a > chunk of a "fresh" comet would look very different > from a "dead" comet. Or, as > been on this listserv recently, could we tell the > difference between a chunk > of a comet or a piece of Ceres? I am not sure I > would be willing to say > anything in print even though I have studied Ceres > for years. What, from > either, would we expect to make it through the > atmosphere? > > Even if we were to bring back samples from two or > three comets, I doubt if > anyone I know would be willing to say (with respect > to the composition of > comets) that that was their "final answer." That is > the nature of science. > > I really have to stop writing these a 5:00 in the > morning, no breakfast and no > soffee, but this is the quiet time of the day. > > Larry > > > > Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > > "Comets ... being 'primitive material' ... we > would need > > to have known multiple samples of multiple comets > before > > we could say for sure." > > > > Hi Mark and List, > > > > I couldn't agree more and that's why I felt a bit > uneasy when I read > > Campins' and Swindle's article in this issue of > our METEORITE magazine: > > > > CAMPINS H. and SWINDLE T.D.(2006) Where are the > cometary > > meteorites? (Meteorite, May 2006, Vol. 12, No.2, > pp. 17-19). > > > > They solely refer repeatedly to Comet Halley and > to Halley dust (plus to > > cometary IDPs). Many more comets need to be > sampled before we can draw > > definite conclusions! > > > > Best, > > > > Bernd > > > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Moss meteorite and Norway's "attempt" to claim theft.
This whole discussion brings back memories of out Moss CO3 hunt and subsequent recovery of the Morten Bilet/Michael Farmer stone, ~900 grams out of 3.6 kilos total recovered. Many of us meteorite hunters from both USA and European countries, Poland, Sweden, Norway, Germany, UK, Canada etc were all hunting there and in the news. I got a call from the people at the Norway National university in Oslo who curate meteorites. They came on the bus to lecture me about destroying science by collecting meteorites for private purposes. They then said that Norwegian law allowed for any finder to own a metorite, but they did not like that at all. They then promptly ended the meeting saying that they had to catch a bus back to Oslo, despite the fact that the hotel was exactly in the center of the strewnfield. They had no desire to actually search! Days later, Morten and I found nearly a third of this rare meteorite in a parking lot, many of the pieces already destroyed by cars running over them and heavy equipment smashing them to dust. I have photos of the gray dust marks that days before had been large fragments of the Moss meteorite. Without us, Moss would consist of barely 1.5 kilogram in the three pieces (toilet hitter, tree cutter, and roof smasher). A later newspaper articles was titled "STOP, Meteorite THIEVES" funny, it is hard to steal what is legal to find and own. Then we can take Puerto Lapice, our team recovered over 30 stones, nearly 1/3 of the total known weight of that rare Eucrite, and Spain went crazy, calling us thieves although Spain has no law preventing meteorites from leaving Spain. We went 4 MONTHS later, after 99% of the strewnfield had been completely plowed over and destroyed. Had we not done that, those stones would have been lost as well. Science and private hunters work well together when we try, and trying to block on the other only leads to fewer recoveries and loss of science and material for all. I think this Canadian fall will go well, I havent read much that shows otherwise. Michael Farmer __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Moss meteorite and Norway's "attempt" to claimtheft.
Hmja, possibly a deficiency of their university schooling. Half a lesson in the series of lectures or the workshop in meteoritics about the history of this subject, And then they would have known, that it always was so the last 300 years, that there were the farmers and the Farmers picking up the stones to sell or to donate them to the scientists and the collectors. In my opinion also in natural science a short glimpse onto the cultural context is important. Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Michael Farmer Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Dezember 2008 18:27 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Martin Altmann Betreff: [meteorite-list] Moss meteorite and Norway's "attempt" to claimtheft. This whole discussion brings back memories of out Moss CO3 hunt and subsequent recovery of the Morten Bilet/Michael Farmer stone, ~900 grams out of 3.6 kilos total recovered. Many of us meteorite hunters from both USA and European countries, Poland, Sweden, Norway, Germany, UK, Canada etc were all hunting there and in the news. I got a call from the people at the Norway National university in Oslo who curate meteorites. They came on the bus to lecture me about destroying science by collecting meteorites for private purposes. They then said that Norwegian law allowed for any finder to own a metorite, but they did not like that at all. They then promptly ended the meeting saying that they had to catch a bus back to Oslo, despite the fact that the hotel was exactly in the center of the strewnfield. They had no desire to actually search! Days later, Morten and I found nearly a third of this rare meteorite in a parking lot, many of the pieces already destroyed by cars running over them and heavy equipment smashing them to dust. I have photos of the gray dust marks that days before had been large fragments of the Moss meteorite. Without us, Moss would consist of barely 1.5 kilogram in the three pieces (toilet hitter, tree cutter, and roof smasher). A later newspaper articles was titled "STOP, Meteorite THIEVES" funny, it is hard to steal what is legal to find and own. Then we can take Puerto Lapice, our team recovered over 30 stones, nearly 1/3 of the total known weight of that rare Eucrite, and Spain went crazy, calling us thieves although Spain has no law preventing meteorites from leaving Spain. We went 4 MONTHS later, after 99% of the strewnfield had been completely plowed over and destroyed. Had we not done that, those stones would have been lost as well. Science and private hunters work well together when we try, and trying to block on the other only leads to fewer recoveries and loss of science and material for all. I think this Canadian fall will go well, I havent read much that shows otherwise. Michael Farmer __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Moss meteorite TKW contest -- OT: Summer fun with Bubbly
Sterling wrote: > But if you're dropping the flag right now, I'm breaking out the > champagne! (Whoops, no champagne in the fridge. How about Ginger > Ale? That looks kind of champagnesque, well, if you mix it with > 7-Up, it does, then add some Baccardi Gold... Hey! it's a > SCIENCE experiment, that's all. And if you're into doing some crazy science experiments, try dumping an entire pack of Mentos into a newly opened 2-liter bottle of soda -- OUTDOORS! (Diet soda is usually better -- the resulting mess is less sticky.) For the most impressive results, you need to design a delivery system that will smoothly dump the entire stack of Mentos in less than a second. (Like the yield on a fission bomb, bad timing leads to a bit of a fizzle.) ;-) --Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: AW: Re-2: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite From A Comet?
Hi Martin, That's news to me. I don't have the URL at hand to give you for the initial study, but the isotopic evidence the U Wurzburg team presented then was pretty good. I have not seen any refutations yet - I may have missed them. Do you have a URL handy for them? good hunting, Ed --- Martin Altmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Ed, > > not to dissapoint you, > but since decades the Chiemgau-impact is brought up > again and again, > though until now not a sinlge scientific relevant > proof was found or > delivered, neither for the presumed impact pits and > craters, > nor for the recovered samples, which turned out to > be terrestrial. > > Best! > Martin > > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- > Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Im Auftrag von E.P. > Grondine > Gesendet: Montag, 21. August 2006 15:53 > An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: Re-2: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite > From A Comet? > > Hi Larry, List - > > It appears we have at least one other comet sample: > Cheimgau. > > good hunting, > Ed > > > --- Larry Lebofsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi all: > > > > Defending Tim Swindle and Humberto Campins. I have > > known them for years and > > they are very conservative scientists. Their work > is > > good and they are well- > > respected scientists. They do not go off (too > often) > > to make wild, > > unsubstantiated, claims., hence, the conclusions > in > > their article. They based > > their Meteorite paper (and their original > scientific > > paper) on what we know. > > We have observations of many comets (Campins has > > done a lot of this), but we > > have "samples" from only one comet (Halley), are > > just now studying Stardust > > material (so too early to say much), and IDPs > which > > are thought to be, at > > least in part, cometary in origin. > > > > Clearly, we need multiple samples from multiple > > comets --- good luck in our > > lifetime. Therefore you base your "theories" on > the > > existing information, not > > onwhat you hope to have in the future. That is why > > people propose new missions > > to comets and asteroids! > > > > We know that not all comets are the same based on > > our observations and where > > we think they came from. Some of this may be > because > > of how many times they > > have been close to the Sun, some may have to be > > related to where they came > > from (Kuiper Belt or Oort cloud), and some may > have > > to do with where they were > > formed (which may not have been where we see them > > coming from). Clearly, a > > chunk of a "fresh" comet would look very different > > from a "dead" comet. Or, as > > been on this listserv recently, could we tell the > > difference between a chunk > > of a comet or a piece of Ceres? I am not sure I > > would be willing to say > > anything in print even though I have studied Ceres > > for years. What, from > > either, would we expect to make it through the > > atmosphere? > > > > Even if we were to bring back samples from two or > > three comets, I doubt if > > anyone I know would be willing to say (with > respect > > to the composition of > > comets) that that was their "final answer." That > is > > the nature of science. > > > > I really have to stop writing these a 5:00 in the > > morning, no breakfast and no > > soffee, but this is the quiet time of the day. > > > > Larry > > > > > > > > Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > > > > "Comets ... being 'primitive material' ... we > > would need > > > to have known multiple samples of multiple > comets > > before > > > we could say for sure." > > > > > > Hi Mark and List, > > > > > > I couldn't agree more and that's why I felt a > bit > > uneasy when I read > > > Campins' and Swindle's article in this issue of > > our METEORITE magazine: > > > > > > CAMPINS H. and SWINDLE T.D.(2006) Where are the > > cometary > > > meteorites? (Meteorite, May 2006, Vol. 12, No.2, > > pp. 17-19). > > > > > > They solely refer repeatedly to Comet Halley and > > to Halley dust (plus to > > > cometary IDPs). Many more comets need to be > > sampled before we can
AW: AW: Re-2: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite From A Comet?
Hi Ed, the problem with the Chiemgau-debate is, that it is so old, that the discussion seems to be driven predominantly by the human factor and not by science anymore. Personal attacks of the different involved groups seem to make a rational analysis of this issue impossible. Some say they have clear evidence, but don't want to show the samples, other seem to care more about the personal reputation of the adversary group members than about research, others choose as place for publication rather TV and media and not the usual journals... - a mess (partially paid by the German tax-payer). The so called craters were identified by the Geologischen Landesamt as glacial - sorry I don't find the terminus technicus in English now, I think "kettle" is the right word? - and some as antique bloomeries. There is also a small, quite circulate lake and one scientist claims to have thin sections from shocked quartz from there, but never published it. The metal finds around there contain no nickel (and as no meteoritic material could be found, the fans of the impact scenario seems to have switched to a theory of a comet fragment exploded at high altitudes, which dynamically seems not to work (there I'm not an expert)). And finally the ominous "presolar" FeSi-pellets contain no cosmogene noble gases, nor do the O-isotopes show an extraterrestrial origin. They are found also elsewhere, not only in Chiemgau and are most probably industrial pollution. That's what I heard so far, but I'm sure that Dieter Heinlein, who was somewhat involved in that issue, can give you better details. A funny thing I have to tell more. Obviously some of the impact-camps played with the online impact effect calculator and from the results they made a dramatic pseudo-documentary. There you could see the Celts of Chiemgau in 465 b.C. (some of the "experts" achieved to calculate the exact date of the fall - here I see the motivation in the before discussed crater in Northern Italy, which was connected with the vision of emperor Constantine, the cross in the sky...). And the sky was falling on their heads. Fortunately the falling fire brought also some iron with it, so that the Celts of Chiemgau profited in a sudden step forward in civilization and technology. The metal was attributed as "The Black Gold of the Celts".. ...ähem and so on. That documentary was shown in one of the main TV-channels at Sunday primetime. Effect, several people believed each brown stone in their gardens to be a meteorite and the Black Gold of the Celts. One very enthusiastic finder you will still find trying to sell his "meteorites" on German ebay. (He learned, meanwhile he's selling also Mars-chondrites, CIs, and fossils of animals killed by impacts (not Ries-Belemnites)). http://kuerzer.de/gosh1 http://kuerzer.de/gosh2 Enjoy! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von E.P. Grondine Gesendet: Montag, 21. August 2006 16:22 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: AW: Re-2: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite From A Comet? Hi Martin, That's news to me. I don't have the URL at hand to give you for the initial study, but the isotopic evidence the U Wurzburg team presented then was pretty good. I have not seen any refutations yet - I may have missed them. Do you have a URL handy for them? good hunting, Ed --- Martin Altmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Ed, > > not to dissapoint you, > but since decades the Chiemgau-impact is brought up > again and again, > though until now not a sinlge scientific relevant > proof was found or > delivered, neither for the presumed impact pits and > craters, > nor for the recovered samples, which turned out to > be terrestrial. > > Best! > Martin > > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- > Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Im Auftrag von E.P. > Grondine > Gesendet: Montag, 21. August 2006 15:53 > An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: Re-2: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite > From A Comet? > > Hi Larry, List - > > It appears we have at least one other comet sample: > Cheimgau. > > good hunting, > Ed > > > --- Larry Lebofsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi all: > > > > Defending Tim Swindle and Humberto Campins. I have > > known them for years and > > they are very conservative scientists. Their work > is > > good and they are well- > > respected scientists. They do not go off (too > often) > > to make wild, > > unsubstantiated, claims., hence, the conclusions > in > > their article. They based > > their Meteorite paper (and their original > scientific > > paper) on what we know. > > We have observations of m
AW: AW: Re-3: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite From A Comet?
A fascinating idea! Brilliant theory, Matthias! The Celts were beer brewers, “Corma, they called it and drafted it already from wooden barrels, as the Bavarians do. Remember until the beginning of 20th century the beer was dark. Why? If we imagine, that cometary matter contains much carbon, and the Chiemgau-Celts felt the urge to eat up the divine matter falling from sky; btw not an uncommon behaviour remember the people of Novo-Urei or Thuathe and they stirred the crumbly matter into the beer, then it became dark. (The light-coloured beer came into vogue not before a Bavarian master brewer emigrated to Pilsen and invented the light beer Pilsener style, which rapidly had its triumphal procession around the globe (another perversion was, when the Americans invented a water with the colour of beer, which is called “Bud” after the town Budweis near Pilsen). Now Matthias, take this very special and astonishing ritual, the enthnographists observe here in Bavaria: The so called “Masskrugaufsetzen” - “to put on the beerstein (like a hat)” often found, when the tribes meet to drink beer together at e.g. the Oktoberfest in Munich. The ritual requires that the members of the tribes render homage to the fetish beer in incorporating the largest possible quantity, usually 1.5 gallons, until they fall in trance. In this state they start to smash the enormous beersteins over eachothers skulls. Matthias! It is evident! On the one hand you have the worship of the achievement of The BEER in combination with the pain of your head caused by a downwards from the sky directed motion. What else can this be as an unconscious reflex of the collective memory on the past event of 465 b.C. when the ancestors suffered this horrible cometary hail, which finally helped them to the cultural advance to get the beer dark!!! Sooo meteoritefolks. Whenever you’re shaping your body with the consumption of beer, remember, it’s due to a cometary impact. Buckleboo! Martin PS: I guess soon it will be time to order the room for the Munich-Show-Evening. Anyone to come there? Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Montag, 21. August 2006 18:38 An: Martin Altmann; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: AW: AW: Re-3: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite From A Comet? Hello Martin & List, so that seems to be the reason for the unreachable front-position of Bavaria, compared with all the other, less developed German regions: the Gold of the Black Bav ..., ahm, sorry: the Black Gold of the Bavarian Celts! Actually I always took that as a term for the strong dark Bavarian Beer ... Well, the terminus technicus for those round crater-like forms of glacial origin is, I guess, "Toteislöcher" in German (and probably something like "Dead-Ice-Holes" in English? - which has completely nothing to do with the Dirt-Ice-Comets ;-) Best, Matthias __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: AW: Re-3: [meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite From A Comet?
Hello Martin & List, so that seems to be the reason for the unreachable front-position of Bavaria, compared with all the other, less developed German regions: the Gold of the Black Bav ..., ahm, sorry: the Black Gold of the Bavarian Celts! Actually I always took that as a term for the strong dark Bavarian Beer ... Well, the terminus technicus for those round crater-like forms of glacial origin is, I guess, "Toteislöcher" in German (and probably something like "Dead-Ice-Holes" in English? - which has completely nothing to do with the Dirt-Ice-Comets ;-) Best, Matthias __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Moss meteorite TKW contest -- OT: Summer fun with Bubbly
On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 16:32:22 -0700, you wrote: >And if you're into doing some crazy science experiments, try >dumping an entire pack of Mentos into a newly opened 2-liter >bottle of soda -- OUTDOORS! http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mentos I like doing this trick better, though: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=search_videos&search_sort=relevance&search_query=dry+ice+bottle __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
