Re: Port to IBM RS/6000?
On Sat, Jul 14, 2007 at 12:54:12PM +0100, Timo Schoeler wrote: if there's anyone interested in doing a port to RS/6000, I'd like to donate some hardware for this, e.g. a 7044-170 (Power3-II) machine, or RAM for some 7028 server. I can't do a port but I wish there were one. I have a specific need for a/some powerful but low-frequency computer(s). I had the option of getting some 7025-H50s but I couldn't find any free OS that would boot on the test machine. Netbooting isn't an option for me so I need the installer to media to boot. Good luck. Doug.
Re: Port to IBM RS/6000?
On Sat, Jul 14, 2007 at 02:55:32PM +0100, Timo Schoeler wrote: Well, at the moment I have AIX 5.3 on that machine (before that, it was 5.1 with which it was delivered to me). I also tried G*ntoo, but well, *cough* ;) AIX isn't free in any sense. I would be happy if IBM wanted to keep me in up-to-date AIX without me continually spending money but that's not going to happen. Doug.
print filter?
I'm wondering what the OBSD people generally use for print filtering. I have an old IBM PC Graphics printer (dot-matrix) attached to my debian box but everyone there seems to use CUPS. I could just as easily connect the printer to my OBSD box. The last time I used this printer to print postscript was a few years ago. It was connected to a debian box running LPRng but debian's gs did't have a driver that would work. I ended up using foomatic and gs-esp with the ML 320 driver. foomatic and cups seems like going overboard for something so simple. So what do OBSD people use? Thanks, Doug.
Re: print filter?
On Sat, Jul 14, 2007 at 07:22:41PM +0200, Adriaan wrote: On 7/14/07, Douglas Allan Tutty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm wondering what the OBSD people generally use for print filtering. I have an old IBM PC Graphics printer (dot-matrix) attached to my debian box but everyone there seems to use CUPS. I could just as easily connect the printer to my OBSD box. Have a look at apsfilter. Simple to install as a pre-compiled binary package. apsfilter needs ghostscript as well as a2ps. There one small thing you may have to fix. a reference to gawk in the SETUP script. I just changed it to /usr/bin/awk. Thanks Adriaan, I'm familiar with apsfilter and actually just got it to work with this printer on my debian box with debian's stock gs-gpl. Part of my reason for asking on OBSD is that I'm exploring the larger issue of licensing. I know that OBSD folk tend to prefer stuff with a BSD license rather than that GPL. Apsfilter is GPL (plus a 'please send a postcard'). So I supposet a more specific but more general question would be: Is there a pure BSD-licensed print filtering option? Thanks, Doug.
Re: Intel Core 2
On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 12:45:10PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: On 6/27/07, Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At this time, I cannot recommend purchase of any machines based on the Intel Core 2 until these issues are dealt with (which I suspect will take more than a year). Intel must be come more transparent. (While here, I would like to say that AMD is becoming less helpful day by day towards open source operating systems too, perhaps because their serious errata lists are growing rapidly too). so what laptop would you recommend to buy? I don't make recommendations. Ok, rephrase the question (and I don't do laptop): What computer/processor (any arch, not limited to i386) has the power to do typical desktop stuff (browse the web, watch DVDs, edit photos) and at the same time has been great to port/develop for? Anything other than the desktop stuff above works just fine on my 486 with OBSD (thanks again all). Other than Intel and AMD, is there a third CPU maker that makes good CPUs that work in systems that will then run OBSD? For example, I note that the IBM PowerPC is _not_ listed as a port and I know that there must be a reason for this. If there was such a vendor and a port didn't exist, perhaps a discussion on what a port would take would be in order? Just my 2c, and I already bought my new box for this decade (AMD Athlon 64). Doug.
How get IMPS/2 mouse to work with X
Hello, I'm running OBSD on my IBM 486-DX4-100, 32MB ram. It has S3 video so is using the XFree86 version 3 driver, configured with xf86config. All is mostly well, except that I have a microsoft trackball (I think its called a MS Intellimouse Explorer) mouse with a wheel attached to the standard mouse aux port. Using the wscons protocol and device the wheel isn't recognized; wscons uses pmsi. pms(4) says that the pmsi will work with wheel mice of the 'Intellimouse' breed. However, I know from using the mouse with X on debian that this mouse needs the IMPS/2 protocol to get the wheel to work. I don't use or need the mouse in the console, only for X. I would like to be able to point my XF86Config at the mouse port directly and tell it to use the IMPS/2 protocol but I can't see how to to this or if it is possible. The /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/doc/README.mouse in the OpenBSD section says that to get extended mouse protocols to connect to the raw device /dev/psm0 but I don't see that under /dev nor in the MAKEDEV(4) man page. For all the mouse can also plug into USB, the computer predates USB. I'm running OBSD 4.0 since I downloaded it in May to try on this box that will nolonger run Debian. I want to get it all configured (learning along the way) and then experience the OBSD upgrade to 4.1 Below, are my dmesg and XF86Config. Thanks, Doug. OpenBSD 4.0 (GENERIC) #1107: Sat Sep 16 19:15:58 MDT 2006 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC cpu0: Intel 486DX4 (GenuineIntel 486-class) cpu0: FPU,V86 real mem = 33124352 (32348K) avail mem = 21528576 (21024K) using 429 buffers containing 1757184 bytes (1716K) of memory mainbus0 (root) bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+(3b) BIOS, date 12/30/97, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xfda82 apm0 at bios0: Power Management spec V1.1 apm0: AC unknown, no battery apm0: flags 30101 dobusy 0 doidle 1 pcibios0 at bios0: rev 2.0 @ 0xfdabd/0x800 pcibios0: pcibios_get_intr_routing - function not supported pcibios0: PCI IRQ Routing information unavailable. pcibios0: PCI bus #0 is the last bus bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0x8000 cpu0 at mainbus0 pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (bios) isa0 at mainbus0 isadma0 at isa0 pckbc0 at isa0 port 0x60/5 pckbd0 at pckbc0 (kbd slot) pckbc0: using irq 1 for kbd slot wskbd0 at pckbd0: console keyboard pmsi0 at pckbc0 (aux slot) pckbc0: using irq 12 for aux slot wsmouse0 at pmsi0 mux 0 vga0 at isa0 port 0x3b0/48 iomem 0xa/131072 wsdisplay0 at vga0 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation), using wskbd0 wsdisplay0: screen 1-5 added (80x25, vt100 emulation) wdc0 at isa0 port 0x1f0/8 irq 14 wd0 at wdc0 channel 0 drive 0: WDC AC31200F wd0: 16-sector PIO, LBA, 1222MB, 2503872 sectors atapiscsi0 at wdc0 channel 0 drive 1 scsibus0 at atapiscsi0: 2 targets wdc_atapi_intr: warning: reading only 0 of 36 bytes wdc_atapi_intr: warning: reading only 14 of 18 bytes cd0 at scsibus0 targ 0 lun 0: TOSHIBA, CD-ROM XM-5302TA, 1095 SCSI0 5/cdrom removable wd0(wdc0:0:0): using BIOS timings cd0(wdc0:0:1): using BIOS timings ne2 at isa0 port 0x280/32 irq 9, NE2000 (RTL8019), address 00:00:b4:b5:16:45 pcppi0 at isa0 port 0x61 midi0 at pcppi0: PC speaker spkr0 at pcppi0 lpt0 at isa0 port 0x378/4 irq 7 npx0 at isa0 port 0xf0/16: using exception 16 pccom0 at isa0 port 0x3f8/8 irq 4: ns16550a, 16 byte fifo pccom1 at isa0 port 0x2f8/8 irq 3: ns16550a, 16 byte fifo fdc0 at isa0 port 0x3f0/6 irq 6 drq 2 fd0 at fdc0 drive 0: 1.44MB 80 cyl, 2 head, 18 sec biomask ed65 netmask ef65 ttymask ffe7 pctr: no performance counters in CPU dkcsum: wd0 matches BIOS drive 0x80 root on wd0a rootdev=0x0 rrootdev=0x300 rawdev=0x302 # File generated by xf86config. # # Copyright (c) 1995 by The XFree86 Project, Inc. # # Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a # copy of this software and associated documentation files (the Software), # to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation # the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, # and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the # Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions: # # The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in # all copies or substantial portions of the Software. # # THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED AS IS, WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR # IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, # FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL # THE XFREE86 PROJECT BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, # WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF # OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE # SOFTWARE. # # Except as contained in this notice, the name of the XFree86 Project shall # not be used in advertising or otherwise to promote the sale, use or other # dealings in this Software without prior written authorization from the # XFree86
Re: How get IMPS/2 mouse to work with X
On Thu, Jun 14, 2007 at 09:46:10AM -0700, Chris Cappuccio wrote: You probably need ZAxisMapping to use the scroll wheel Here's what I do (wsmouse abstracts usb/ps2/etc types): Section InputDevice Identifier Mouse0 Driver mouse Option Protocol wsmouse Option Device /dev/wsmouse Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 EndSection My applogies, I sent the wrong version of XF86Config (I have several as I tried to get the most out of the display _and_ get the wheel working). The pointer section that matches the mouse trial is below. Note that this is the XFree version 3 since version 4 (and xorg) doesn't work properly with my S3 video. As I understand it from the man pages, wsmouse abstracts USB/ps2/ and intellimouse but _not_ ImPS/2. So the question is: can I get wsmouse to pass the data raw (and not abstract anything) or ignore the mouse altogehter and get a /dev/ entry to point X at? With all the various boxes I've used this mouse, I had to tell X to use protocol IMPS/2. I tried with and without the Buttons line but the XFConfig man page says that the buttons used for ZAxisMapping have to be taken into consideration. The mouse has 4 real buttons plus the wheel that acts like a middle button, plus the wheel rolling events (one button for each direction). Thanks, Doug. Here's the pointer section: # ** # Pointer section # ** Section Pointer Protocolwsmouse Device /dev/wsmouse try to get wheel to work Buttons 7 ZAxisMapping 4 5 # When using XQUEUE, comment out the above two lines, and uncomment # the following line. #Protocol Xqueue # Baudrate and SampleRate are only for some Logitech mice # or for the AceCad tablets which require 9600 baud #BaudRate 9600 #SampleRate 150 # Emulate3Buttons is an option for 2-button Microsoft mice # Emulate3Timeout is the timeout in milliseconds (default is 50ms) Emulate3Buttons Emulate3Timeout50 # ChordMiddle is an option for some 3-button Logitech mice #ChordMiddle EndSection
alternatives to sendmail
Hello, I'm totally new to OBSD and have it installed on my 486 which acts basically like a slim client allowing me to ssh in to my main box. OBSD comes with sendmail which I have never knowingly used before and while it works as-is for local mail delivery, I thought I'd set it up to send non-local mail to my main box as a smarthost. However, sendmail is a very steep and tall learning curve. I'm coming from Debian (which no longer installes with 32 MB ram) so I'm used to exim. I know that exim is GPL. I'm wondering if there are other BSD-licensed MTAs. While in this case, setting up outgoing mail isn't important, I'm using the box also as a test-bed to see how well OBSD would work instead of Debian on my main box. Being able to configure mail in that case is quite important, since without it I can't ask for help :) Thanks, Doug.
Re: alternatives to sendmail
On Mon, Jun 04, 2007 at 03:28:50PM +0200, Timo Schoeler wrote: Thus [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter N. M. Hansteen) spake on Mon, 04 Jun 2007 15:17:26 +0200: Douglas Allan Tutty [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: However, sendmail is a very steep and tall learning curve. I'm coming from Debian (which no longer installes with 32 MB ram) so I'm used to exim. I know that exim is GPL. I'm wondering if there are other BSD-licensed MTAs. exim is available as a package on OpenBSD as well, so if that's what you are used to, you should feel right at home. Exim ist GPL, Postfix is 'IBM public license'. Neither is BSD compatible. Honestly, Postfix' license (or my moral on BSD :) convinced me to switch back to sendmail... :) I know that exim is in ports. However I wanted some perspective before I started on sendmail's learning curve. Where possible, I would like to honour OBSD's philosophy. Also, since sendmail comes with the base install, I'd have to figure out how to get any other MTA I install to play with the sendmail that is already there. Thanks, Doug.
Re: alternatives to sendmail
On Mon, Jun 04, 2007 at 08:02:08AM -0600, Diana Eichert wrote: On Mon, 4 Jun 2007, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote: However, sendmail is a very steep and tall learning curve. I'm coming from Debian (which no longer installes with 32 MB ram) so I'm used to exim. I know that exim is GPL. I'm wondering if there are other BSD-licensed MTAs. Hmmm, actually, I don't believe sendmail has a steep and tall learning curve. ;-) It's just that you don't grok it yet. You're almost there since you know you want to use a smarthost. For example copy /usr/share/sendmail/cf/openbsd-localhost.mc to another file /usr/share/sendmail/cf/BobFoo-localhost-SMART_HOST.mc, define dnl define(`SMART_HOST', `MYMAINBOX-FQDN')dnl ,build a new .cf file, BobFoo-localhost-SMART_HOST.cf . Move the new file to /etc/mail , add sendmail_flags=-L sm-mta -C/etc/mail/BobFoo-localhost-SMART_HOST.cf -bd -q30m to /etc/rc.conf.local restart sendmail and VOILA! It's not hard at all and you will also get the satisfaction of leaning new and wonderful SysAdmin skills. It may not be hard at all, but its a lot more work than answering exim's config questions. I don't suppose there's a BSD sendmail configurator script that guides one through this? Yes, I know, everything I need to get sendmail working is alread on my system in the form of manpages, READMEs, other docs, and the stuff between my ears. The other issue is that I would _like_ to be able to set up sendmail since if I were installing OBSD on a raw system after some catastrophy, I may want access to mail before I've set up ports and installed something like exim. Lots to ponder. Thanks all, Doug.
Re: flowcharts
On Wed, May 23, 2007 at 08:14:53AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Because I draw like a crab :-) Also, I suppose I have become spoiled by Visio's ability to quickly draw, redraw and move shapes easily. It is hardly painful at all to make major changes to a flowchart in Visio. Compare that to Kivio where something as simple as aligning shapes is a big problem. For instance, the Input/Output shape cannot be aligned properly in Kivio because the connection points are in the wrong places. So now you have to make your own points, and somehow make sure everything lines up. In Visio (and in openoffice) this was a simple thing to do since the points are offset in order to make the shape and the lines line up, with each other and with the other shapes. Flowchart shapes are few and simple with text in the middle. Could you use LaTex or Lout with a pdf or dvi reader to view? Anything that can put primitive geometric shapes on a page will do it, some more conveniently than others. Installing OO just for this seems like nuclear overkill. Before I had xfig, I was running OS/2. The only drawing program I had was AutoCad 11. Using a mult-thousand dollar program to draw flowcharts was certainly overkill but its what I had. Many diciplines use flowcharts where psudocode would be inapropriate. Usually, they describe decision trees and workflow. Computer programmers may think them old-fashioned but they are very worthwhile at the beginning of a programming project as a design tool. Doug.
Re: OT: flowcharts
On Tue, May 15, 2007 at 12:01:35PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have an OT question for you guys. Do any of you use flowcharting software, and if so what do you use? I am just beginning to explore the world of programming and have so far used Microsoft (spit) Visio. I tried both Kivio and Dia but they fall short for me. My code choices are (due to the course I am attending) limited to JavaScript and pseudocode. Any recommendations? If you _really_ want actual flow-charts, I just use Xfig or a piece of paper. However, instead of pseudocode, try python. I looks like pseudocode but is actually a very nice programming language with good documentation. I suppose it depends on your course. If they require a flow-chart, draw one, and find out if they'll accept python for pseudocode. Doug.
Re: Bottleneck in httpd. I need help to address capacity issues on max parallel and rate connections
On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 01:30:41AM -0400, Daniel Ouellet wrote: No swapping is happening, even with 1000 httpd running. load averages: 123.63, 39.74, 63.3285 01:26:47 1064 processes:1063 idle, 1 on processor CPU states: 0.8% user, 0.0% nice, 3.1% system, 0.8% interrupt, 95.4% idle Memory: Real: 648M/1293M act/tot Free: 711M Swap: 0K/4096M used/tot How does this server do with 1000 non-httpd processes running? Perhaps I need a newer Nemeth et al, but in my 3rd edition, pg 759 middle of the page says Modern systems do not deal welll with load averages over about 6.0. Could your bottleneck be in context-switching between so many processes? With so many, the memory cache will be faulting during the context switching and have to be retreived from main memory. I don't think that such slow-downs appear in top, and I don't know about vmstat. I don't know if there's a tool to measure this on i386. I've never run httpd but it looks to me like a massivly parralized problem where each connection is trivial to serve (hense low CPU usage, no disk-io waiting) but there are just so many of them. How does the server do with other connection services, e.g. pop or ftp? Doug.
Re: [OT] language tricks (was: creating menu's)
On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 10:56:57AM +0200, Joachim Schipper wrote: On Tue, May 08, 2007 at 09:34:35PM -0400, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote: On Tue, May 08, 2007 at 01:22:10PM -0700, Bryan Irvine wrote: I need a fairly simple menu, and have thought about just simple selects but figured now would also be a good time to learn something new as well. It's nothing so complex that I need to go ncurses to do. Just a basic option 1 then option 3 then run some command thing. My front-ends I do in python. It doesn't have a case/select. I just use if/then/elif/ Then there's Fortran with computed gotos; very slick. I forget the syntax but is something like goto (10+choice) for each choice until one matches. Just pointing out: if Python can do the job at all, you almost certainly don't need that kind of micro-optimization in Fortran code. Also, this is a menu. Efficiency is not exactly a big goal. I don't do enough programming to want to keep track of multiple languages. If I have to read a program in 10 years I want to know what its trying to do. C has too much punctuation everywhere. So I only program in Python and Fortran. However, and this is where I go completely off-topic, while we're at it, you don't need Fortran for this, most languages have equivalent constructs (C): In languages with higher order-functions, this can be written even more concisely (Scheme): However, all of this is massively overkill. Just use a shell script. Shell is too much like C (punctuation and spacing matter). (sorry if this sounds anti-unix). I use shell if its like a dos bat file, sequential. Once I have to test conditions and branch I switch to python. Then if something takes a long time (or I know it will before hand), I use fortran 77. Unfortunaly, I can't get my head around regex either. Two hours after I'v written it I can't understand it. So I code it in python or fortran. Doug.
Re: creating menu's
On Tue, May 08, 2007 at 01:22:10PM -0700, Bryan Irvine wrote: I need a fairly simple menu, and have thought about just simple selects but figured now would also be a good time to learn something new as well. It's nothing so complex that I need to go ncurses to do. Just a basic option 1 then option 3 then run some command thing. My front-ends I do in python. It doesn't have a case/select. I just use if/then/elif/ Then there's Fortran with computed gotos; very slick. I forget the syntax but is something like goto (10+choice) 11 ch1() ... 12 ch2() ... 13 ch3() ... It means that only one computation takes place instead of one comparison for each choice until one matches. Doug.
Re: Bottleneck in httpd. I need help to address capacity issues on max parallel and rate connections
On Tue, May 08, 2007 at 07:13:27PM -0400, Daniel Ouellet wrote: Nope. I sent updates on that too with a more powerful server. And I am doing tests now with three clients at once to see and I can get a bit more process running on the server side, but still no more output of that server. It is cap somehow and I am not sure what does it yet. I'm new at this so please ignore if its not helpful. Is this a bandwidth (hardware) limitation on the computer itself? If so then a faster processor won't help. Bus contention? Doug.
Re: Equivalent to linux disk delete?
On Sun, May 06, 2007 at 09:49:18PM +0300, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, May 06, 2007 at 07:51:14PM +0200, Sebastian Rother wrote: doesn`t know about a delete Command and disklabel so far shows just the OpenBSD (4th) partition. Set their type to 0 with fdisk (fdisk -e, e #part, 0 to disable, etc). That said, I wouldn't recommend anyone to use the OpenBSD fdisk, unless they really know what they're doing :) It's too obtuse and error prone. Don't you _have_ to use it to run the install? Doug.
Re: Help needed with server setup at work
On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 12:48:46AM +0200, Rico Secada wrote: On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 00:05:51 +0200 Joachim Schipper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 09:28:53PM +0200, Rico Secada wrote: This is a public mailing list. Trim your message at 72 columns. Meaning? The following line is as I received it. It is 401 characters wide. I have left it as is for your edification. Using OpenBSD as a server works perfectly. The server needs nothing more than SSH. About the client I have succesfully setup Debian with fuse and it works perfectly with OpenBSD serving. I also know that FreeBSD has a port for client installation. Fuse uses the sftp part of SSH. On Debian all it takes is installing the package and using modprobe. On FreeBSD it should be almost as easy and quick. This line was also received. It is 471 characters wide. I have wrapped it. Using vim I only had to do a gqap. The only consern I have is users snooping around because they are able to ssh in, besides that sshfs works like a charm and its so easy and quick to setup. I have combined scponly with the servers, and that works well too, but since scponly isn't safe, as in a lot of work is done security wise, I would not want to run with that as a permanent solution. I trust OpenSSH over any VPN solution anyday, but SSH might cause a problem in other areas, hence the question. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had a name of signature.asc] I have got no idea what this is about. I havent made any attachments. _somebody_ signed a post on this thread and instead of a signature the mail list server put a message that it was removed. Doug.
Re: a question kinda pff topic
On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 11:38:12AM -0400, Dave wrote: I have a question not about the software but where you put your network stuff has any one built there own rack out of wood I am looking at building my own. Another option is solid used commercial wire racking. The units take a lot of load while the wire shelves allow good airflow. I'm not talking about the Walmartish clones but stuff used, for example, in commercial kitchens. Doug.
Re: running OpenBSD on switch hardware
On Thu, Apr 05, 2007 at 06:52:25PM +0200, Karl Sjvdahl - dunceor wrote: On 4/5/07, RedShift [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've got this linksys SRW2016 managed 16 port gigabit switch at home. The only problem with it, is that the firmware well eh, sucks. The telnet interface can't configure everything (just basic setup, you can't even set up SNMP or VLANs) and the webinterface only works correctly with Internet Explorer. Now during the bootup messages I see that the processor is an ARM946E-S. Since OpenBSD should run on ARM processors (armish port?) I wonder if it would be possible to replace the current firmware with an OpenBSD install. I don't think the ARM 946 has a MMU which I'm pretty it needs to run OpenBSD. So I think you are out of luck. Don't know if Linux runs on systems without MMU but it's worth a try. NetBSD says it will run anything, will it run this? Doug.
Re: firewall stopped working unexpectedly
Hi Steve, I've interspersed my comments, but first a preface: I've never used (although read a bit on) DHCP. I use Debian (looking at switching to BSD). I run old hardware boxes so can troubleshoot. I'm not expecting this to be a definitive answer but I hope its more help than noise. Doug. On Tue, Apr 03, 2007 at 02:21:07PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Covad DSL Modem --[ne3] firewall [xl0] -- switch -- internal network firewall = PII/256MB running Open BSD 3.5 with 2 NICs ne3 = external interface configured using DHCP (192.168.1.1) xl0 = internal interface fixed internal network (192.168.0.0/24) Nobody on the internal network can get out to check email or surf the net. Something happended in the hours between Sunday night around 8:30 pm and Monday morning at 8:00 am. But what? Network Cards - substituted known good network cards in firewall - no change. Where they the same kind (same drivers, or did you change /etc/hostname.* to match? Firewall PC - rebooted; then substituted known good backup firewall machine no change. Does the modem (never used one) remember hardware ethernet address so get confused when a different box requests the same stuff? Did you reset the modem each time you changed boxes or NICs? Since you know the x10 NIC (internal interface) works, what happens if you swap them in your configuration? If the ne3 is now internal, does it work? In other words, first ensure that you have two NICs funtioning in all respects. ping - I can ping from internal network to the internal interface on the firewall. I can SSH into the firewall from the internal network. What happens if you log into the firewall via the console (not ssh)? DHCPACK from 192.168.1.1 New Network Number: 66.166.238.0 New Broadcast Address: 66.166.238.255 bound to 66.166.238.189 -- renewal in 30 seconds. ^^^ It seems to get the IP address from the COVAD DHCP server but then things go haywire. Within a few seconds I start seeing error messages on the console: Apr 2 14:54:18 gateway dhclient: send_fallback: No route to host Apr 2 14:54:18 gateway dhclient: send_fallback: No route to host #ifconfig ne3 inet 66.166.238.189 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 66.166.238.255 which seems to be correct. But running ifconfig a few times eventually it appears to lose the correct IP address and go down: ifconfig ne3 inet 0.0.0.0 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 255.255.255.255 interface assignments -- /etc/hostname.ne3 dhcp /etc/hostname.xl0 inet 192.168.0.1 255.255.255.0 NONE /etc/sysctl.conf net.inet.ip.forwarding=1 net.inet6.ip6.forwarding=1 Hardware? -- dmesg gateway# dmesg OpenBSD 3.5 (GENERIC) #1: Sat May 1 08:18:25 PDT 2004 . xl0 at pci0 dev 14 function 0 3Com 3c905B 100Base-TX rev 0x30: irq 11 address 00:50:da:4f:e1:10 exphy0 at xl0 phy 24: 3Com internal media interface ne3 at pci0 dev 16 function 0 Winbond Linksys EtherPCI II rev 0x00: irq 9 ne3: address 00:20:78:14:f5:ed
Re: Is OpenBSD good/best for my 486?
On Sun, Mar 25, 2007 at 12:44:46PM -0400, Nick Holland wrote: Shawn K. Quinn wrote: On Fri, 2007-03-23 at 10:49 -0400, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote: On Fri, Mar 23, 2007 at 06:56:32AM -0500, Shawn K. Quinn wrote: On Wed, 2007-03-21 at 22:37 -0400, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote: I've got a 486DX4-100 with 32 MB ram, ISA bus, with two drives: 840 MB and 1280 MB IDE. Currently running Debian GNU/Linux Sarge. 32M is at a point where if it isn't enough, you need a better machine. Tweaking the kernel to make it run better in 32M is just perfume on the pig. If that's what you need to do, get a less smelly pig. As I indicated recently, probably on this thread, ssh on a 486 is painful. Works fine, but painfully slow. X? oh, ick. It will work, but you may need the XF3 support, as a lot of old, 486-vintage video chips haven't been ported to X.org. If you need to use the XF3 servers, you will be out of luck starting with OpenBSD v4.2, as (hopefully) we will have switched to Xenocara, and probably drop XF3 support. I believe at some point, it was indicated that this 486 is or may be the OP's first OpenBSD experience. If that is true, I'd highly recommend a better machine to get your feet wet with. MY recommendation for minimum HW for OpenBSD for a first-timer would be a Pentium, 100MHz or better, 32M RAM or better. If you want X, I'd bump that up to a P200, 64M RAM or better. Again, it isn't that it won't run on slower machines, it is just that you will skip important steps in the learning process if your machine is too slow. Right now, I only have two boxes: my 486 and my Athlon. The Athlon runs Debian Etch amd64. Its the box that does all my work so I don't want to get on a BSD learning curve on it. The 486 is only a convenience piece. Yes, X is a problem no matter Debian or BSD. Right now, the 486 has Debian Sarge on it but I've tweaked the XFree86 configs so it uses the previous versions S3 driver since its not available for the current version. That wont be an option in Debian Etch eiter. Bottom line, I may have to give up on X. Its not that great a loss. Debian's Sarge installer doesn't work on it and neither will Etch's. If ever I need to reinstall or change something fundamental (e.g. the hard drive crashes), I have to install woody base and upgrade. The trouble is that its a pain to do that over dial-up. This is one of my reasons for looking at OpenBSD. So I want to learn BSD on the 486. As for taking a long time to install, everything is relative. It takes a long time to upgrade Debian over dial-up too. I _think_ I can download the tarballs from the ftp site, burn them onto a CD so I have a local repository to point the install at, then I _think_ the time-consuming thing is something about generating keys. Assuming that it can do that without me sitting there, I can get it started then go camping :) Besides, I'm a bit attached to my trusty 486. It has never given me a moments trouble (hardware wise) since I bought it new from IBM in 1993/4. My P-100 is so unreliable its unusable except as a terminal emulator. My PII was given to me full of cat hair; not one fan turned. It dies after 45 seconds. The 486 runs quiet, cool, and error free. My only concern is that I upgraded the memory from 8 MB to 16 then 32 and in the process of SIMM swapping, I don't have IBM ECC memory anymore. Rather than compare it to a smelly pig, try an old uncle. I want to get BSD on it before it gets Alzheimer's (memory loss) or Parkinson's (as in Parkinson's Law about available space). Then there's aesthetics. I learn best by understanding. Since UNIX culture was born on slow (by today's standards) machines, why not learn in that mode to start? What steps would I skip if my machine is too slow if I'm dedicated to learning on it and not trying to cut corners to make it run faster? Once I have a working OpenBSD system and learn about it, I can decide if I want to make the switch on my Athlon. Thanks for your comments. Doug.
Re: Request for links to BSD adminstration docs
On Fri, Mar 23, 2007 at 12:07:54AM -0500, Marco Peereboom wrote: However, is it correct that when a new release comes out every six months, you have to reboot into that? How long does an upgrade from one release to the next take? Minutes on a fast machine. I have seen a HPPA B180 take like 25 minutes but that is the exception and not the norm. The OpenBSD man pages are outstanding. Start with the FAQ and then move on to the man pages and life will be good. How does an HPPA B180 compare with a 486? I think I'll see if I can download the manpages separatly and view them with debian's groff (or more simply, with Midnight Commander). Thanks, Doug.
Re: Request for links to BSD adminstration docs
On Thu, Mar 22, 2007 at 10:08:02PM -0700, Darrin Chandler wrote: On Fri, Mar 23, 2007 at 12:40:48AM -0400, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote: However, is it correct that when a new release comes out every six months, you have to reboot into that? How long does an upgrade from one release to the next take? Yes, you must reboot and perform the upgrade. If you read the upgrade guide and get your ducks in a row you can be all done *easily* in 30 minutes. If there were some kind of contest with cash prizes it could probably be done much quicker. However, it's much more important to get the steps right than to do it quickly, IMHO. So on a production machine, it has to be off-line for 30 minutes every six months (not complaining, just clarifying). history you can pick up some interesting bits around the net. The Wikipedia pages on this aren't as bad as they could be. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenBSD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Software_Distribution I've read them and they seem like a good introduction. I'd like to track down the origional BSD SMM (assuming that it was released under a BSD licence), from before it was printed by O'Reily and hense copywritten. Thanks Doug.
Re: Is OpenBSD good/best for my 486?
On Fri, Mar 23, 2007 at 06:56:32AM -0500, Shawn K. Quinn wrote: On Wed, 2007-03-21 at 22:37 -0400, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote: Hello, I've got a 486DX4-100 with 32 MB ram, ISA bus, with two drives: 840 MB and 1280 MB IDE. Currently running Debian GNU/Linux Sarge. Assuming you don't try to do more with it than you have CPU and RAM for, you should be fine. However, once you've tested that all your hardware works with the GENERIC kernel, I would strongly recommend you compile a custom kernel and run that (do a Web search for a Perl program called dmassage which will help immensely), but keep a copy of GENERIC around in case problems do creep in. The reason for compiling a custom kernel in this case is to save memory; I saved about 2.5M on a similar system, which is a lot when you only have 32M to begin with (with any system much newer it's usually not worth it). I thought compiling a custom kernel was _discouraged_? I just loaded the 486 to the most I ever do: ssh to the big box (titan) to pon courer (the modem) and run bwm ssh to titan for mutt run aptitude, update the package list run top to watch everything run X with icewm: rxvt ssh titan, to run conquorer go to theweathernetwork.com I'm using 6 MB swap, but the system is not spending any time waiting for I/O. Aptitude is taking 75% of the CPU, top on a 2 second delay is taking 10%. I can still browse the net; the wait is a slow dial-up connection. I don't know how to tell how big the kernel in memory is since its modular. So I'll have to see how the generic kernel does. Doug.
Re: Is OpenBSD good/best for my 486?
On Wed, Mar 21, 2007 at 10:16:24PM -0500, Travers Buda wrote: * Douglas Allan Tutty [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-03-21 22:37:01]: I've got a 486DX4-100 with 32 MB ram, ISA bus, with two drives: 840 MB and 1280 MB IDE. Currently running Debian GNU/Linux Sarge. *snip* Is there any reason that OpenBSD wouldn't be my best choice for this box? I've run OpenBSD on a 486DX2 with 20 megs of ram. When you're talking about the 486es, you're going to want a FPU with openbsd. It does not look like there is any emulation (however, I remember seeing something in the GENERIC config a year or so back...) or else it won't work. The system was fine, and quite responsive for just ssh, tip, etc. OpenBSD is a fine choice, the biggest bottleneck you're probably going to see is virtual memory-related stuff like the encrypted swap, which you can turn off via the vm.swapencrypt.enable sysctl. You're probably not going to be swapping too darn much unless you decide to use X, then it's going to be a bit over the line, however, this does not mean it's not going to work. =) 486DX4-100 has FPU. All I need is a basic X window manager (for moving windows around), an xterm, and ssh that port forwards X11. Right now, I have no problem sshing to my athlon in the basement and running Konqueror for web browsing when I need java and https. The only other memory and compute intensive thing I do is run debian's aptitude package manager. You mean OpenBSD has encrypted swap out-of-the-box? That's fantastic. It took a while to set up on my debian etch box. Thanks, Doug.
Re: Microsoft gets the Most Secure Operating Systems award
On Thu, Mar 22, 2007 at 08:12:23AM -0700, Ben Calvert wrote: On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 18:58:31 +0530, Siju George [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, http://www.internetnews.com/security/article.php/3667201 From the article: Microsoft is doing better overall than its leading commercial competitors. ^^ No wonder. they stacked the deck before doing the comparison As I see it they compared: Microsoft: 12 serious vulnerabilities in the OS Red Hat: 2 serious vulnerabilities in the kernel + packages Mac OS X:1 serious vulnerability in the OS HP-UX: ?? _serious_ out of 98 total Solaris:?? _serious_ out of 36 total for OS + third-party apps The article seems to rank by the number of patches. If a vendor waits and sends out a mega-patch even monthly, to fix more bugs than anyone else, then that's only two patches over a 6 month period. Its a poorly constructed survey. Doug.
Re: Saving memory on small machines
On Thu, Mar 22, 2007 at 12:09:04PM -0600, Bob Beck wrote: * Artur Grabowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-03-22 10:32]: Kamil Monticolo [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: # ls -lhS /usr/lib/libcrypto*a -r--r--r-- 1 root bin 11.7M Mar 22 13:53 /usr/lib/libcrypto_pic.a -r--r--r-- 1 root bin 11.6M Mar 22 13:53 /usr/lib/libcrypto_p.a -r--r--r-- 1 root bin 11.5M Mar 22 13:53 /usr/lib/libcrypto.a # strip -s /usr/lib/libcrypto*a # ls -lhS /usr/lib/libcrypto*a -r--r--r-- 1 root bin 909K Mar 22 13:53 /usr/lib/libcrypto_pic.a -r--r--r-- 1 root bin 865K Mar 22 13:53 /usr/lib/libcrypto_p.a -r--r--r-- 1 root bin 835K Mar 22 13:53 /usr/lib/libcrypto.a I'm speechless. This is the low water mark on misc@ this week. How can you call it a low water mark art? I wasn't speechless, I laughed my ass off. I needed the humor this morning, I'm hung over and spent the morning in a stupid meeting. That message made my day. Definately not a low water mark ;) My applogies. I don't get the humour. Take a lib, strip the debugging symbols, you get a functional lib that's 10% of the size. However, since BSD relies on the ability to recompile things, don't you need those libs to have the debugging symbols? Or is it that strip -s removes all symbols and it was only intended to remove the debug symbols. The libs won't work? Sorry, I'm from debian. I never compile C. The last thing I compiled was Fortran 77. I try not to mouth-breathe but, when I do, at least I don't drool. Could some kind soul gently explain the humour? Thanks, Doug.
Re: Saving memory on small machines
On Thu, Mar 22, 2007 at 04:42:57PM -0500, David Terrell wrote: On Thu, Mar 22, 2007 at 01:29:33PM -0700, Ted Unangst wrote: On 3/22/07, Douglas Allan Tutty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or is it that strip -s removes all symbols and it was only intended to remove the debug symbols. The libs won't work? yes, libs without symbols aren't especially useful for future development. Also, stripping static libs has ZERO impact on your installed system, it only affects things you compile from source on that box. (and, as you mention -- negatively). So the laugh was that the poor fellow has hosed his machine and won't know it until the next time he has to compile a patch? Sort of like /bin/rm -rf / instead of rm -f /bin/laden? Doug.
Request for links to BSD adminstration docs
Hello, I'm considering moving my 486 from Debian to OpenBSD. I haven't the money to spend on a new e.g. UNIX System Administration. 4.4 BSD System Manager's Manual is out of print. I haven't been able to google anything freely available on the internet. My local library has had their only UNIX book stolen (not by me). Since BSD came from a university, did they ever publish under the BSD licence a SMM, and if so is it avilable free anywhere? Is there a BSD repository of free documents similar to IBM's for AIX? I've got the basic Linux CLI admin skills. What I'm looking for is indoctrination into the BSD way of doing things and the wisdom behind it. I'm looking for a bit of the historical culture; the wisdom of ages past. As a simple example. I'm used to Debian where updates can happen without disturbing users (clones of myself mostly). On a new fast box, one can build a patch in a short time, but then the system has to be brought down, install the patch, then bring it back up. In years past, how did a sysadmin with one VAX handle that? Take the computer off line at 1700, do the build, install, and hope to have everything back up by 0800? I figure that if I get an old BSD book and combine it with the OpenBSD FAQ plus man pages, I'll be off to a good start. I'm not, as someone here referred to themselves as, an old fart. I'm not _that_ old (40), but I don't want a book that starts off Click on I wouldn't mind one that starts Turn on your terminal and hit enter. Thanks, Doug.
Re: Request for links to BSD adminstration docs
On Thu, Mar 22, 2007 at 09:00:01PM -0700, Darrin Chandler wrote: On Thu, Mar 22, 2007 at 11:30:06PM -0400, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote: I'm considering moving my 486 from Debian to OpenBSD. I haven't the money to spend on a new e.g. UNIX System Administration. 4.4 BSD System Manager's Manual is out of print. I haven't been able to google anything freely available on the internet. My local library has had their only UNIX book stolen (not by me). I figure that if I get an old BSD book and combine it with the OpenBSD FAQ plus man pages, I'll be off to a good start. As for your simple example above, I've seen more than once someone talk about bringing a box down for extended periods to update. I just don't get that. It's easy enough to update sources or apply the patch and rebuild while the system is up. Sure, it can add a lot of load, but OpenBSD is fairly stable under load in terms of still serving web pages, or doing mail, etc. Then the only total downtime is during reboot if you've updated the kernel, or restart time on daemons if you've only updated userland. Sounds similar to debian which also has to reboot a new kernel. Do you run the rebuild niced? However, is it correct that when a new release comes out every six months, you have to reboot into that? How long does an upgrade from one release to the next take? Thanks for your suggestions re used books. I'll try some of Kingston's used book stores and see what I can get at the Queen's book store. Doug.
Is OpenBSD good/best for my 486?
Hello, I've got a 486DX4-100 with 32 MB ram, ISA bus, with two drives: 840 MB and 1280 MB IDE. Currently running Debian GNU/Linux Sarge. Box has two uses: under normal cirumstance, as a thin client to my athlon box elsewhere in the house. As a toolbox incase anything goes wrong with my new athlon, I still can dial out to the net for help and downloads. Debian Etch will need more than 32 MB ram so am starting the planning. I've compared Open-, Net-, and Free-BSD (via google search and reading the three web-sites) and like the security-by-default nature of Open- and its reputation for solid documentation. I'm used to the command line (hate GUI) and vi. Is there any reason that OpenBSD wouldn't be my best choice for this box? Thanks, Doug.
