OpenBSD poster
I have made an OpenBSD promotion poster. http://images.twibright.com/tns/21a8.html CL<
misc rejects because of sender verify
Hello If I configure my exim on my laptop according to what's written in the comments, I cannot send e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] The comment says that primary_hostname should be "your host's canonical name [...] the fully qualified "official" name of your host". Well my laptop is called kestrel and my domain is twibright.com. So I put kestrel.twibright.com there. But misc@openbsd.org says rejected since sender verify failed. The "from" header is set to [EMAIL PROTECTED], the "from:" header to [EMAIL PROTECTED] No wonder it failed. My laptop doesn't have any externally valid IP address so I didn't make any DNS record for it. misc apparently tries to lookup kestrel.twibright.com and fails. So I tried to put "twibright.com" there but now I cannot send post to my brother [EMAIL PROTECTED] Now exim thinks [EMAIL PROTECTED] is for him (even if local_comains are set just to @ : localhost) and says "unknown user". -t mx for twibright.com is twin.jikos.cz. So what should I put there? Or should I put some random bullshit like 195.195.195.195 into the kestrel.twibright.com so that misc@ is satisfied? Is there a RFC saying that the "from" header after stripping the @ and before must succeed in DNS lookup? Do I violate any RFC if I put random garbage into DNS to satisfy paranoid hosts like [EMAIL PROTECTED] All these "anti-spam" policies... They just make it almost impossible for normal people to send e-mail reliably, while they have no visible effect on the spam tsunami... I still get hundreds of spams daily. They turn the MTA configuration task from a fifteen puzzle into a sixteen puzzle. CL<
Regenerating damaged /etc
During upgrading between 4.1 and 4.2 I accidentally typed rm -rf /etc instead of rm -rf etc in the /tmp directory. After fixing couple of vital things I continued normally with the upgrade, unpacking the etc42.tgz and xetc42.tgz and reinstalling couple of programs so that their /etc/ files are regenerated. I also did the post-installation stuff from the "Installing 4.2" chapters. I got an idea that I could run the install process and somehow skip the initial part but it always told me it's going to destroy all data on the disk and then I said no and it returned into the shell. Is there some way how I can re-generate the missing /etc files? I guess the permissions matter for security and some files are probably machine generated. I don't see any problem at the moment but maybe it's just like a time bomb there? CL<
What happens with mismatched filesets?
I didn't find an answer to my question in the upgrade guide: What happens if I upgrade using the cd4x.iso and leave unselected a fileset that was selected when the system was installed? Will it leave old versions of files and make the system inconsistent? Or will the old set be removed from the system? I guess if I select a set that wasn't previously installed then it will be just installed without any problems. CL<
Re: What happened to my virtual consoles?
On Sun, Nov 04, 2007 at 09:35:06PM -0500, Matthew Szudzik wrote:
> I just installed OpenBSD 4.2. When I run X, I no-longer have access to the
> virtual consoles. When I try to switch to a virtual console (by pressing
> CONTROL-ALT-F2, for example), the screen goes black for a few seconds and
> then my X session reappears.
>
> Moreover, when I attempt to shutdown the system, X stays running and I
> never the see the "The operating system has halted" message.
I have the problem too. In 3.9 it worked, in 4.0 it doesn't anymore.
Although I can still do ctrl-alt-backspace in X and it shuts them down.
Also, often, when I don't start X soon after the computer boots but later,
the screen fills with psychedelic colours and the machine freezes.
CL<
>
> Is there a way to fix this problem?
>
> I invoke X by including the following line in my .profile file
> startx
> And my .xinit file only contains the following three lines
> xset s off
> xmodmap -e 'add Mod4 = Super_L'
> exec fluxbox
>
> My dmesg is as follows:
>
> OpenBSD 4.2 (GENERIC.MP) #252: Tue Aug 28 10:53:04 MDT 2007
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC.MP
> cpu0: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T7200 @ 2.00GHz ("GenuineIntel" 686-class) 2
> GHz
> cpu0:
> FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,SSE3,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,EST,TM2,CX16,xTPR
> real mem = 2137419776 (2038MB)
> avail mem = 2059087872 (1963MB)
> mainbus0 at root
> bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+ BIOS, date 04/30/07, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xfd6b0,
> SMBIOS rev. 2.4 @ 0xe0010 (68 entries)
> bios0: vendor LENOVO version "79ETD3WW (2.13 )" date 04/30/2007
> bios0: LENOVO 1953CTO
> pcibios0 at bios0: rev 2.1 @ 0xfd640/0x9c0
> pcibios0: PCI IRQ Routing Table rev 1.0 @ 0xfdea0/272 (15 entries)
> pcibios0: PCI Interrupt Router at 000:31:0 ("Intel 82371FB ISA" rev 0x00)
> pcibios0: PCI bus #22 is the last bus
> bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0xea00! 0xdc000/0x4000! 0xe/0x1!
> acpi at mainbus0 not configured
> mainbus0: Intel MP Specification (Version 1.4)
> cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor)
> cpu0: apic clock running at 166 MHz
> cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 1 (application processor)
> cpu1: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T7200 @ 2.00GHz ("GenuineIntel" 686-class) 2
> GHz
> cpu1:
> FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,SSE3,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,EST,TM2,CX16,xTPR
> mainbus0: bus 0 is type PCI
> mainbus0: bus 2 is type PCI
> mainbus0: bus 3 is type PCI
> mainbus0: bus 21 is type PCI
> mainbus0: bus 22 is type ISA
> ioapic0 at mainbus0: apid 2 pa 0xfec0, version 20, 24 pins
> cpu0: unknown Enhanced SpeedStep CPU, msr 0x06130c2906000c29
> cpu0: using only highest and lowest power states
> cpu0: Enhanced SpeedStep 2000 MHz (1356 mV): speeds: 2000, 1000 MHz
> pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (no bios)
> pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 "Intel 82945GM MCH" rev 0x03
> vga1 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 "Intel 82945GM Video" rev 0x03: aperture at
> 0xd000, size 0x1000
> wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation)
> wsdisplay0: screen 1-5 added (80x25, vt100 emulation)
> "Intel 82945GM Video" rev 0x03 at pci0 dev 2 function 1 not configured
> azalia0 at pci0 dev 27 function 0 "Intel 82801GB HD Audio" rev 0x02: apic
> 2 int 11 (irq 11)
> azalia0: host: High Definition Audio rev. 1.0
> azalia0: codec: Analog Devices AD1981HD (rev. 2.0), HDA version 1.0
> azalia0: codec: Conexant/0x2bfa (rev. 0.0), HDA version 0.9
> azalia0: codec[1]: No support for modem function groups
> azalia0: codec[1]: No audio function groups
> audio0 at azalia0
> ppb0 at pci0 dev 28 function 0 "Intel 82801GB PCIE" rev 0x02
> pci1 at ppb0 bus 2
> em0 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 "Intel PRO/1000MT (82573L)" rev 0x00: apic 2
> int 11 (irq 11), address 00:15:58:82:8c:2d
> ppb1 at pci0 dev 28 function 1 "Intel 82801GB PCIE" rev 0x02
> pci2 at ppb1 bus 3
> wpi0 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 "Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG" rev 0x02: apic
> 2 int 11 (irq 11), MoW1, address 00:1b:77:1c:31:eb
> ppb2 at pci0 dev 28 function 2 "Intel 82801GB PCIE" rev 0x02
> pci3 at ppb2 bus 4
> ppb3 at pci0 dev 28 function 3 "Intel 82801GB PCIE" rev 0x02
> pci4 at ppb3 bus 12
> uhci0 at pci0 dev 29 function 0 "Intel 82801GB USB" rev 0x02: apic 2 int
> 11 (irq 11)
> uhci1 at pci0 dev 29 function 1 "Intel 82801GB USB" rev 0x02: apic 2 int
> 11 (irq 11)
> uhci2 at pci0 dev 29 function 2 "Intel 82801GB USB" rev 0x02: apic 2 int
> 11 (irq 11)
> uhci3 at pci0 dev 29 function 3 "Intel 82801GB USB" rev 0x02: apic 2 int
> 11 (irq 11)
> ehci0 at pci0 dev 29 function 7 "Intel 82801GB USB" rev 0x02: apic 2 int
> 11 (irq 11)
> usb0 at ehci0: USB revision 2.0
> uhub0 at usb0: Intel EHCI root hub, rev 2.00/1.00, addr 1
> ppb4 at pci0 dev 30 function 0 "Intel 82801BAM Hub-to-PCI" rev 0xe2
> pci5 at ppb4 bus 21
> cbb0 at pci5 dev 0 function 0 "TI PCI1510 CardBus" rev 0x00:
Re: The program 'foobar' received an X Window System error.
On Sun, Nov 04, 2007 at 01:10:09PM +0100, Manuel Wildauer wrote: > Hi > > I have a problem with my X. > > -- snip -- > [~] firefox > The program 'firefox-bin' received an X Window System error. > This probably reflects a bug in the program. > The error was '82'. > (Details: serial 428 error_code 82 request_code 45 minor_code 0) > -- snip -- > > The same with gqview or gajim. But other software like gvim ok. > Windowmanager is Fluxbox, the same problem with OpenBox and pekwm. > With wmii Firefox are running. Aren't you running it over vnc? This happened to me with Links over vnc. > > WindowManager Problem? > > What can I do? Probably bugreport to Firefox. CL< > > MFG manuel
Re: Open hardware.
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 07:47:27PM +, Adrian Fisher wrote: > How much modern computer hardware is fully open source or at least has fully > open interfaces that allow anyone to create device drivers? I Sun and I've made one that implements wireless comms... ronja.twibright.com > another company (Anglo-Italian firm Simply-RISC) released a processor based > on Suns offering but has anyone else? Would you be more inclined to buy a > machine based on open source hardware rather than proprietary products such > as Asus, Intel and AMD? For example, my CDROM works only when you give it a hard hit when it's trying to read the CD. I would like to change the charging strategy of my battery. I would definitely rather buy open source HW than a closed source one because this way I'm not in control of my HW. Someone even attemped an open source single board computer which already works but the development apparently doesn't go on for years. http://sbc.twibright.com/ I asked Stallman and he said that open source hardware is not a moral imperative, that only open source software is. If more people have this opinion then no wonder there is no open source PC. CL< > > A. > > http://www.sun.com/processors/opensparc/ > http://opensourceblog.itproportal.com/?p=166
Re: What is the "nice" process state?
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 01:15:14PM +, Jason McIntyre wrote: > On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 11:45:36AM +0100, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > > > > > You've been on this list and using OpenBSD for long enough that you > > > should be trying things like "man nice", "apropos nice" and "man top" > > > > man nice doesn't say what the "nice" state in the top printout is neither > > man top says it. > > > > why would nice(1) describe the output of top(1)? I don't know - you should ask the one from this mailing list who suggested it to me that I should look into man nice(1) :) > > "neither man top says it" - have you actually read top(1)? it does > document the "NICE" column. it also lists renice(8) in the SEE ALSO > section. hehe yes, but I am not asking about the NICE column, but about the nice CPU state :) CL<
Re: What is the "nice" process state?
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 04:21:13PM +0100, Martin Schrvder wrote: > 2007/11/3, Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > It's clear to me what is the nice column. I asked for the nice state instead > > - if you run top, you have a line "CPU state: ...0.0% nice..." - that's the > > one I am asking about. > > Go away, troll. Wrong answer. Cf. Patricia Evans - Controlling People. The definition of troll includes "with the intention of baiting users into an argumentative response" which requires knowing a state of a different mind - impossible. CL<
Re: OpenBSD Sound
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 02:21:27PM +, Stuart Henderson wrote: > On 2007/11/03 13:40, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 05:48:20PM +0100, Alexandre Ratchov wrote: > > > no; character devices (such as /dev/audio) keep per-unit state > > > (encoding, rate, ...). To mix multiple audio streams per-stream > > > state must be kept. That's why arts/esd/jack/... exist. > > > > You don't need arts/esd/jack because of this. This can be solved in kernel. > > so, the kernel would mix multiple sound sources coming at > different rates? > > but, /dev/audio uses a character device. like ratchov@ (new audio > developer) wrote, these keep per-unit state, not per-stream state. > > even ignoring whether it's actually desirable to have the kernel > do resampling (a quick perusal of the list archives should reveal Without resampling the illusion of having the soundcard just for you would be gone. > what developers think about that), with a character device you > *can't track the state of each stream* e.g. which bitrate to use. The opener actually does some kind of ioctl on the device. So if one opener does ioctl that he wants 32 kHz and another that he wants 22.05kHz then you know which bitrate to use for each of them. Why do you think you cannot track the state of each of them? > > > mplayer has to do this stuff all the time so it's full of this code. It > > does it > > not only to accomodate for various sample rates, but also when you slow > > down or > > speed up your video. Maybe the code could be taken from mplayer. > > no, it couldn't. > > from your other mail: > > For example if I have music playing in the background, Audacity cannot open > > the soundcard for recording. Can you imagine an operating system where if > > Firefox was writing a webpage to the disk, your e-mail client couldn't read > > a mail folder from the disk? > > can you imagine an operating system where if Firefox was printing a > web page, your e-mail client could print an email on the same printer > at the same time? Yes every Unix has it. The lpr and lpd - if Firefox and e-mail clients are printing at the same time, they get assigned different print jobs and everything prints all right. > > just because some software which can mix audio sucks, doesn't mean > that all software which can mix audio has to suck. What do you mean with the term "suck"? No matter how good app you write it always breaks the basic principle - that hw virtualization should be done by the kernel and not some kind of userland app. CL<
Re: What is the "nice" process state?
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 08:55:04AM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: > On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 11:45:36AM +0100, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > > >From the replies I got (none of which actually answered my question) it > > >looks > > like the "nice" state might be a state where the nice value != 0. Or less > > than > > zero would also make sense. But it could be also that OpenBSD has the nice() > > function like some other operating systems for giving up the scheduled time > > back to the system and then the nice state might show amount of time > > given up this way. So - what is the nice state printout actually? > > The 'nice' column should be the nice level. If its 0, then its not It's clear to me what is the nice column. I asked for the nice state instead - if you run top, you have a line "CPU state: ...0.0% nice..." - that's the one I am asking about. CL< > niced either way. If its 2 then it has a niceness of 2, if its -2 then > its niceness is -2 which means its not nice to other processes. Since > the purpose of 'nice' is to adjust the scheduling priority, I don't > think anything keeps track of the amount of time given up this way. > > Keep in mind, nice is only for processor scheduling while in userland. > It doesn't affect scheduling of system calls or io. So a very nice > process can still use up a lot of system resources by hogging disk or > other I/O which itself can end up using CPU cycles. > > Doug.
Re: OpenBSD Sound
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 01:44:02PM +, Edd Barrett wrote: > Hello, > > This thread has been really interesting. > > On 03/11/2007, Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Maybe the code could be taken from mplayer. > > Mplayer is GPL, so be careful about lifting code. Then one can use the code at least as an algorithm reference. Can easily happen that they use a different interface - blocking vs. nonblocking, callback vs. not callback etc. - which will make the code unusable anyway. CL< > > -- > Best Regards > > Edd > > --- > http://students.dec.bournemouth.ac.uk/ebarrett
Re: OpenBSD Sound
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 05:48:20PM +0100, Alexandre Ratchov wrote: > On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 11:23:31AM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote: > > On 10/31/07, Brian A Seklecki (Mobile) > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Some *BSD systems are adjusting PCM driver support to allow multiple > > > process to open /dev/dsp / /dev/audio multiple times in-exclusively, > > > mitigating the needs for piss-poor software API multiplex'ing solutions > > > a-la ARTS/ESD. > > > > Oh awesome! Is /Open/BSD one of those? > > > > no; character devices (such as /dev/audio) keep per-unit state > (encoding, rate, ...). To mix multiple audio streams per-stream > state must be kept. That's why arts/esd/jack/... exist. You don't need arts/esd/jack because of this. This can be solved in kernel. The kernel opens the audio device for the highest common sampling rate from those requested, or, if the rate cannot be switched without an audible glitch, for the highest hardware available (48 or 96kHz, or user-configured if it should be too much burden). Then if the kernel has it 48 and the app opens 44.1, the kernel resamples. According to Nyquist theorem, you first need to emulate the reconstruction lowpass filter with 22.05kHz programatically, and then resample the output stream at 48kHz and send it out. This requires an intermediate stream at least common multiple, for this ugly case it's 2352 kHz. But you actually don't have to shove data at 2352 kHz sampling rate in the kernel, since you use only every 49th sample for the output. So some nifty math or multipass filter does the job, for the expense of your brain exploding. Now how the lowpass is done. It has to be really sharp otherwise you get an 8-bit-era-like ringing in the sound. And it must not have large delay (you don't want to hear the explosion in your Quake a second later) and also not computationally expensive. The suitable type of filter is called finite impulse response (FIR) and it's just a naiive convolution with a short kernel. Now how to calculate this kernel to get the best response? You make your kernel and imagine it's cyclically wrapped. Then you calculate through FFT the ideal response into it - that's perfectly sharp. But now since the response won't be cyclically wrapped but occurs just once in the time and have zero strecthing into both infinities, we have to fix this. You take a Hann window http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hann_window and apply that and you got it. Hann window is just one cycle of a sine wave plus minus some pushing around. You don't even need a sin for this, you can calculate it with complex multiplication of one pre-calculated complex number. How long do you make your kernel? The longer the kernel, the more computationally intensive, but the sharper the transition so you lose less of the high frequencies. mplayer has to do this stuff all the time so it's full of this code. It does it not only to accomodate for various sample rates, but also when you slow down or speed up your video. Maybe the code could be taken from mplayer. CL< > > -- Alexandre
Re: What is the "nice" process state?
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 01:40:11PM +0200, Lars Noodin wrote: > Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > ... > > man nice doesn't say what the "nice" state in the top printout is neither > > man top says it. > > ... > > Bug report time. Manpages are 'easy' to update. I don't think that should be added into man nice. I think it should be added into man top. CL< > > -Lars
Re: OpenBSD Sound
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 10:47:20AM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote:
> On 10/31/07, Samuel Proulx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I have been using obsd as my primary desktop for a while now and i have a
> > question about the sound system , is there a way to play
> > two sounds at the same time ? Example watching youtube videos with opera
> > and playing some music in the background with mpd or xmms .
> > thank you for your time ; )
>
> Unix has always been kind of weak in this area. You need a mixer of
Unix started like a typewriter. But then the multimedia came. And now try to
rebuild a typewriter into a VHS recorder. OK a magnetic tape instead of ink
tape, we keep the two spools, cut the platten to get the head drum, the keys
will be put on the remote control, but now what should we make the tape
loading mechanism from?
Can be seen that ambitious plans that seem to run fine at the beginning may
suddenly come to a screeching halt.
Apart from sound, the picture part is problematic on Unix too. My X Window
system autorepeat suddenly starts to race with cosmic speed if something
prints with high speed in a different xterm (for example search in a lot
of small files in the Midnight Commander). Sometimes the X Window system
hangs with a screen filled with psychedelic colours upon startx and I have
to reboot the machine. Closing the lid sometimes switches the output to the
external LCD, sometimes not, and sometimes it produces shaking, noisy,
out of sync corrupted signal.
This is because instead of virtualizing the picture hardware in the kernel,
which is the idea of operating system, it's done by some dodgy third-party
application OpenBSD project has really no control over.
You may stop worrying about this stuff when you realize your video recorder
was rebuilt from a typewriter.
CL<
> some sort to do this. Not /dev/mixer, which controls audio volumes for
> the different hardware devices, but a software mixer.
> You'll probably want http://ports.openbsd.nu/audio/esound. There's
> something called Pulse which is intended as a drop in (but superior)
> replacement for esound, and someone () ported it to OpenBSD, but it's
> not in the tree yet.
> Reading http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/PerfectSetup might be
> enlightening; it describes how to configure each program you want to
> use to use pulse.
>
> Looking around some more, here's something like how you'd have to
> configure mpd to use esound:
> audio_output {
> type "ao"
> driver"esd"
> options "host=jurp5-desktop:16001"
> name "esd"
> }
>
> Yes, you need to have each program direct it's output to the mixer,
> there's no way (as far as I know) to sneakily make /dev/audio be a
> software mixer. I don't know if the reason there's no /dev/audio_mix
> is technical, or if it's just that no one's done the work, or if it's
> just a tradition now.
>
> -Nick
Re: OpenBSD Sound
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 09:17:05AM -0400, Samuel Proulx wrote: > Hello, > > I have been using obsd as my primary desktop for a while now and i have a > question about the sound system , is there a way to play two sounds at the > same time ? Example watching youtube videos with opera and playing some music No there isn't. That's where the kernel fails in the virtualization of hardware. For example if I have music playing in the background, Audacity cannot open the soundcard for recording. Can you imagine an operating system where if Firefox was writing a webpage to the disk, your e-mail client couldn't read a mail folder from the disk? But Linux suffers from the same problem. Then there are some kind of castle in the air solutions like esd or arts. I tried that on Linux. arts segfaults periodically, esd plays the wrong pitch. It's like if you had a special daemon running that would virtualize the harddisk for your browser and e-mail client - a crap solution. The proper natural solution is to implement this in the kernel where it belongs to according to what they told us on the lectures - I have done a master degree in operating systems, networks and compilers. They said that the kernel should virtualize the hardware so each app thinks it's alone on the system. But that involves realtime resampling, Hann windows and finite impulse response filters and that's work. Especially for kernel people who are familiar with locks and scheduling, but not with fourier transform and convolution. CL< > in the background with mpd or xmms . thank you for your time ; )
Re: Questions to 4.0->4.1 upgrade
On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 09:34:26PM +0100, Tobias Ulmer wrote: > Karel, stop pretending. Everyone who can google your name will find out You are implicitly saying that I am pretending. By principle you cannot know it because the only mind you have access into is your own. For more information, see Patricia Evans: Controlling People http://www.amazon.com/Controlling-People-Recognize-Understand-Control/dp/158062569X CL< > rather quickly that you're not the stupid idiot that needs to spam misc@ > with boring questions like this. > > > On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 02:00:32PM +0100, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > I want to upgrade from 4.0 to 4.2 and I see I am supposed to perform > > 4.0->4.1 > > first. But some things are unclear to me in > > http://openbsd.org/faq/upgrade41.html: > > > > "Pay special attention to mail/* if you are using something other than the > > default Sendmail(8) configuration." - I use Exim so I should do this. What > > specifically is meant with "pay special attention"? > > > > "Files that must be manually merged, respecting any local changes made to > > them, > > if they were modified from the default, otherwise, just copy them over, > > too:" > > > > How do I figure out what local changes I did? Is there something like the > > cvs > > diff command? I have the system over a year and if I needed to change > > something > > in the config files then I just changed it and forgot it. > > > > "If you installed any packages on your system, you should upgrade them after > > completing the upgrade of the base system." - I installed a lot of packages > > on > > my system and have no idea what is their complete list. How do I figure that > > out and how do I discern between packages that were already pre-installed by > > default and the ones I installed explicitly? Then, how do I upgrade a > > package > > XXX? > > > > "Check with the application's upgrade guide for details." - is the > > application > > upgrade guide something the application author publishes or something that > > the > > OpenBSD project publishes? Where is it? > > > > Thanks for clarifications, > > > > CL<
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 09:05:20AM -0700, Dag Richards wrote: > n0g0013 wrote: > >On 31.10-11:12, Nick Guenther wrote: > >[ ... ] > >>>and i would suggest that the severe and prevelant attitude toward the > >>>possibilty of poor patches or under-educated actions is the most > >>>significant barrier to encouraging new/young developers. > >>Well that's the point of it; or at least, a useful side-effect. > >>Linux can get away with sending fanboi masses at its code because it's > >>fine with fanboi masses poking at all parts of the kernel, no matter > >>how secure it may be. Right? > > > >i think we'll simply agree to disagree. i personally find it quite > >disheartening to hear the attitude that prevails here but that's the > >community's decision. it certainaly seems to refelect the attitute > >of it's leaders (developers). > > > > Consider it the voice of experience (bitter). > > Its easy to tell which ones are the programmers. > > They write code, then they submit it, it does not suck too much and they > take the suggestions of the current project leads. Then they resubmit > better code. > > The rest of us should simply buy CD's, ask and answer the occasional Buy CD's until you get into the situation I got into with Vim Vandeputte - ordered a hoodie as a xmas present, he said he can ship it until xmas, and the first reply was after xmas. Take this, add the name calling and unfriendly atmosphere on the mailing list and you have an explanation why the OpenBSD isn't more popular than is - because there are factors that motivate people away from OpenBSD. More popular OpenBSD means more people sending donations. CL< > question, and other wise keep quiet. > > When you run a Data Centre, that has thousands of users serving tens of > thousands of customers who need medical services on a 24 hour basis, you > will miss the hand holding and warm friendly thoughts less; and > appreciate the complete documentation and conformity to that > documentation way way WAY more. > > BTW I was a Linux user from kernel .92 ( that is some time in 1994 ) > through 2.6. Trying to run that professionally was always fun and > exciting. Man I don't miss that.
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 04:55:20PM +0100, Pierre Riteau wrote: > On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 10:30:24AM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote: > > On 10/31/07, Theo de Raadt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet > > > we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose > > > to write in english... > > > > How can we get started on the code unless we have some idea of where > > to start on the code? Sure we could just code whatever, but why would > > we waste time on things that may be useless? > > > > > > Obviously patches will be subject to peer review. Even if a patch isn't > > > > approved, the coder should have learned something new and useful. > > > > > > Yeah, right. > > > > I don't understand. Is newbies learning new things a waste to you? Do > > you think they won't really learn anything unless the patch is > > approved? Or will the patches not be subject to peer review? Or are > > you worried at who would pass for peer review getting overwhelmed by a > > huge volume of poor quality patches? > > > > -Nick > > > > Remember the motto guys: it's ``shut up and hack'', not whine about > getting something to do, then whine about how to do it, and hack. > > If you don't know what to do, read source code, then hack. Here I'd like to warn before substituting reading code for reading interface specification. What happened on the Linux kernel shows that code cannot be by principle substituted for interface specification: 1. Person A wrote a nonblocking function X performing a task T. The spec in his mind was "X does T, whether it blocks or not is undefined." 2. Person B looked into the code, saw X does T in a nonblocking way and inferred: "the spec for X is that it does T in a nonblocking way" 3. B wrote a caller function that called X with an assumption that X doesn't block, everything was OK 4. A rewrote X in a way that now it blocks 5. Since now a hidden deadlock is in the kernel and noone has the slightest idea that anything wrong has happened. CL< > If you don't know how to read source code, then learn by reading books, > then read source code, then hack. > If you don't want to read, just shut up. > > Pierre Riteau > -- a modest contributor who like the way it is.
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 09:49:03AM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > > surely there must be _some_ merit to creating a list of lower level > > > development tasks (as dictated by those with experience to judge) to > > > encourage people to enter the development cycle. > > > > The most amusing thing about this thread is that such a list has been > > published for years (it's somewhat short right now, but there's some > > simple stuff in it) and is the first search hit when you search on one > > of the obvious queries on google. > > Surely they are too busy whining at us for lists, to actually search > for the lists. > > I'll say it again more clearly -- all of you whiners just plain suck. Who do you mean with whiners? People who report bugs? Those people save you work, because instead of having to run time-consuming tests to find the problems, you just rake the problem reports in from these people. > We know you'll never write diffs, and it is up to you to prove us I fixed some bugs in BRL-CAD (a 30 year old oldschool C-only 3D modelling system from the US Army) because BRL-CAD people are friendly and helpful. Instead of "you suck", they tell you "this XX you wrote cannot work because of YY". I asked here for janitor list, got a reply that it doesn't exist. I looked into the PR database into documentation section but there were 0 hits. I looked into other sections but that seemed to be complicated, I don't want to invest significant time into learning OpenBSD internals at the moment. CL< > wrong. If you don't write diffs, we have a difficult time feeling any > loss.
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 09:23:53AM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: > >On 31.10-08:40, Theo de Raadt wrote: > >[ ... ] > >>> Yeah, right. > >[ ... ] > >> I don't understand. Is newbies learning new things a waste to you? Do > >> you think they won't really learn anything unless the patch is > >> approved? Or will the patches not be subject to peer review? Or are > >> you worried at who would pass for peer review getting overwhelmed by a > >> huge volume of poor quality patches? > > > >and i would suggest that the severe and prevelant attitude toward the > >possibilty of poor patches or under-educated actions is the most > >significant barrier to encouraging new/young developers. > > Yes, it is a significant problem that we won't hand-hold whiners who > could by now be digging for things to fix. There are hundreds of ways > to self-motivate, but instead we get whine whine whine. > > We've got a PR database with bugs in it, and we NEVER get fixes from > outsiders. That's not news to anyone, if they actually wanted to do Maybe the outsiders just cannot find the PR database. I put "openbsd pr database" into google and looked into all links on the first page. The pr database is always mentioned, but never linked. Where is it? CL<
Re: OpenBSD kernel janitors
On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 08:26:07PM +, Miod Vallat wrote: > > Is there a list similar to Linux kernel janitors also for OpenBSD? It's a > > list > > of tasks for which you don't have to be experienced in the particular OS > > internals to be able to complete them properly. > > No, there isn't. > > There are, however, two de-facto janitors for the OpenBSD kernels: > martin@ and I. Those janitors, however, are experienced developers. > > Quite frankly, the idea of the janitor being a rookie scares the hell > out of me. How can you trust people if these people admittedly do not > know what they are doing, or why they are doing things one way and not > another? You cannot, of course. But janitor being a rookie doesn't imply he doesn't know what he's doing. He could be doing a job that doesn't require any special knowledge - like rewriting documentation into a different format, fixing HTML correctness, fixing typos and unclear places in text - or who asks if he isn't sure how to continue properly. CL<
Re: What is the "nice" process state?
On Sat, Oct 27, 2007 at 09:35:41AM -0700, Darrin Chandler wrote: > On Sat, Oct 27, 2007 at 01:57:06PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > I am raytraing a video with a command "rt" and the "top" is showing this: > > > > CPU states: 48.4% user, 48.7% nice, 3.0% system, 0.0% interrupt, 0.0% > > idle > > [...] > > PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATEWAIT TIMECPU COMMAND > > 29174 clock 79 10 33M 15M run -0:00 4.25% rt > > > > What is the "nice" state? I know what userspace, system, interrupt handler > > and idle task is, but nice? > > You've been on this list and using OpenBSD for long enough that you > should be trying things like "man nice", "apropos nice" and "man top" man nice doesn't say what the "nice" state in the top printout is neither man top says it. >From the replies I got (none of which actually answered my question) it looks like the "nice" state might be a state where the nice value != 0. Or less than zero would also make sense. But it could be also that OpenBSD has the nice() function like some other operating systems for giving up the scheduled time back to the system and then the nice state might show amount of time given up this way. So - what is the nice state printout actually? > before asking these kinds of questions. Also, Googling for "unix nice" > also yields plenty of info. If you learn how to find answers to > extremely basic questions on your own using provided documentation it If you have columns in a program printout with a meaning that isn't obvious obvious - like this one, they should be described in the manual page. It's not a mistake of the user if they aren't. CL< > will save you a lot of time. > > -- > Darrin Chandler| Phoenix BSD User Group | MetaBUG > [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://phxbug.org/ | http://metabug.org/ > http://www.stilyagin.com/ | Daemons in the Desert | Global BUG Federation
A prototype of suggested OpenBSD manual
The OpenBSD has very good documentation when it comes to the manpages, but with the web guides there is one thing I don't like: one is presented information he doesn't need at the moment, which consumes time and increases likelihood of a mistake. So I wrote an example prototype of a guide how I imagine it. It has only few paragraphs since it doesn't make sense to put work into it if you think it shouldn't be done this way. http://ronja.twibright.com/openbsd/ I have noticed that the 4.1 guide doesn't seem to officially exist anymore. Is it really so? CL<
Questions to 4.0->4.1 upgrade
I want to upgrade from 4.0 to 4.2 and I see I am supposed to perform 4.0->4.1 first. But some things are unclear to me in http://openbsd.org/faq/upgrade41.html: "Pay special attention to mail/* if you are using something other than the default Sendmail(8) configuration." - I use Exim so I should do this. What specifically is meant with "pay special attention"? "Files that must be manually merged, respecting any local changes made to them, if they were modified from the default, otherwise, just copy them over, too:" How do I figure out what local changes I did? Is there something like the cvs diff command? I have the system over a year and if I needed to change something in the config files then I just changed it and forgot it. "If you installed any packages on your system, you should upgrade them after completing the upgrade of the base system." - I installed a lot of packages on my system and have no idea what is their complete list. How do I figure that out and how do I discern between packages that were already pre-installed by default and the ones I installed explicitly? Then, how do I upgrade a package XXX? "Check with the application's upgrade guide for details." - is the application upgrade guide something the application author publishes or something that the OpenBSD project publishes? Where is it? Thanks for clarifications, CL<
OpenBSD kernel janitors
Is there a list similar to Linux kernel janitors also for OpenBSD? It's a list of tasks for which you don't have to be experienced in the particular OS internals to be able to complete them properly. CL<
Re: Google employment opportunity
On Fri, Oct 12, 2007 at 05:23:37PM -0700, David Mack wrote: > Hi Theo, > > My name is David Mack, and I am a recruiter for the Google.com engineering > team, a dynamic, challenging and fun group, which is responsible for our > Google website, from start to finish. > > While doing a search for a specific skill set, I found your contact > information on-line and I wanted to contact you to see if you may be > interested in learning more about opportunities with us. You seem like you > might be a great fit here at Google. I was already contacted by Google but I didn't take the offer. I come from a former communist country (Czech Republic) and we had an oppressive communist regime there 1948-1989. Information was censored exactly the same way how you Google do it in China now and it was done to sustain the oppressive regime and people suffered - some innocent people were even killed by the regime for their opinions. I spent my whole childhood in this regime. So I already know this is very wrong from my own first-hand experience. I don't want to work in a company which does things that I consider gravely morally wrong. Another reason was that I didn't find a really appealing job offer in your list. CL< > > We have a number of exciting projects going on throughout the company in a > number of different locations. Just wanted to see if you might be interested > in exploring some? If you're open to that type of conversation, please feel > free to circle back with me. > > Thank you and I hope to hear from you soon! > > All the best, > > David Mack > Technical Recruiter/Sourcer > Google Staffing > 650-253-7919 > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What is the "nice" process state?
I am raytraing a video with a command "rt" and the "top" is showing this: CPU states: 48.4% user, 48.7% nice, 3.0% system, 0.0% interrupt, 0.0% idle [...] PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATEWAIT TIMECPU COMMAND 29174 clock 79 10 33M 15M run -0:00 4.25% rt What is the "nice" state? I know what userspace, system, interrupt handler and idle task is, but nice? CL<
lookup option in /etc/resolv.conf ignored
I want to make my OS return 127.0.0.1 on google-analytics.com and ad.doubleclick.net to speed up the work with Sourceforge. I put 127.0.0.1 google-analytics.com 127.0.0.1 ad.doubleclick.net into /etc/hosts and checked that /etc/resolv.conf contains lookup file bind According to man resolv.conf this should result in /etc/hosts having priority over the DNS system. However, it simply doesn't work. Both Firefox and the "host" command behave as if I didn't do anything. Why doesn't it work when man resolv.conf says it should? CL<
fsck.ext2 segfault
OBSD 4.0, the disk is an IDE disk taken from a long-ago Linux computer put into a IDE-to-USB disk enclosure. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ fsck.ext2 /dev/sd0j [...] /dev/sd0j: 503728/7208960 files (3.3% non-contiguous), 9188731/14390223 blocks umass0: Invalid CSW: tag 904086 should be 904087 sd0: WARNING: cache synchronization failed Segmentation fault (core dumped) gdb `which fsck.ext2` fsck.ext2.core (gdb) bt full #0 0x1c00173f in ??() No symbol table info available. #1 0x in ??() No symbol table info available. CL<
Correct place to report bugs in perl
I would like to report a bug - a segfault - in Perl v5.8.8 which is a standard part of OBSD 4.0. The perl page says that perlbjug should be used for perl version 5. man perlbug says: "If you have found a bug with a non-standard port (one that was not part of the standard distribution), a binary distribution, or a non-standard module (such as Tk, CGI, etc), then please see the documentation that came with that distribution to determine the correct place to report bugs." The perl comes in a binary distribution therefore I should "see the documentation that came with the distribution". I looked into man perl but it doesn't say anything about where bugs should be reported. So where should I report it? CL<
Missing manpages db4_*
The following programs have missing manpage on OpenBSD 4.0: db4_archive db4_checkpoint db4_deadlock db4_dump db4_dump185 db4_load db4_printlog db4_recover db4_stat db4_upgrade Does anyone have any idea what these are for? I guess they are for some database manipulation. --help doesn't give much useful information. For example: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/.spamassassin$ db4_recover --help db4_recover: unknown option -- - usage: db_recover [-ceVv] [-h home] [-P password] [-t [[CC]YY]MMDDhhmm[.SS]] If I try to run it on a database: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/.spamassassin$ db4_recover bayes_toks usage: db_recover [-ceVv] [-h home] [-P password] [-t [[CC]YY]MMDDhhmm[.SS]] CL<
Another segfault in DB_File.so
I guess this means a bug in DB_File.so or Perl. No matter how badly
Spamassassin is written it must not be able to produce a segfault.
Is DB_File.so an OpenBSD-specific implementation of database?
This segfault was produce by sa-learn -D --sync and the last debug message it
printed was "[25545] dbg: bayes: tie-ing to DB file R/O
/home/clock/.spamassassin/bayes_seen"
Backtrace from core dump and the output from sa-learn -D --sync follows.
#0 0x099925fc in __find_last_page (hashp=0x7e622e00, bpp=0xcf7ebcb8) at
/usr/src/lib/libc/db/hash/hash_bigkey.c:336
bufp = (BUFHEAD *) 0x8b64f5e0
bp = (u_int16_t *) 0x8b4fd000
n = 0
#1 0x0998c895 in hash_access (hashp=0x7e622e00, action=HASH_GET,
key=0xcf7ebd10, val=0xcf7ebd08) at /usr/src/lib/libc/db/hash/hash.c:614
rbufp = (BUFHEAD *) 0x8b64f540
bufp = (BUFHEAD *) 0x8b64f540
save_bufp = (BUFHEAD *) 0x8b64f540
bp = (u_int16_t *) 0x0
n = 2464
ndx = -2
off = -1956317888
size = 21
kp = 0x8b64f820 "\r\001\a\t\003LASTEXPIREREDUCE"
pageno = 53248
#2 0x08428a07 in XS_DB_File_FETCH () from
/usr/libdata/perl5/i386-openbsd/5.8.8/auto/DB_File/DB_File.so
No symbol table info available.
#3 0x0cd54d08 in Perl_pp_entersub () at /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/pp_hot.c:2877
av = (AV * const) 0x2cd1f1b0
items = 752004116
markix = 0
sp = (SV **) 0x87362288
sv = (SV *) 0x836303b4
gv = (GV *) 0x5
stash = (HV *) 0x0
cv = (CV *) 0x836303b4
cx = (PERL_CONTEXT *) 0x2cd1f1b0
gimme = 0
#4 0x0cd7f5b9 in Perl_runops_standard () at /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/run.c:37
No locals.
#5 0x0cd66008 in S_call_body (myop=0xcf7ebe70, is_eval=0 '\0') at
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl.c:2733
No locals.
#6 0x0cd65f2e in Perl_call_sv (sv=0x7e06f498, flags=64) at
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl.c:2609
sp = (SV **) 0x87362288
myop = {op_next = 0x0, op_sibling = 0x0, op_ppaddr = 0xcd54a50
, op_targ = 0, op_type = 0, op_seq = 0, op_flags = 66 'B',
op_private = 0 '\0', op_first = 0x0,
op_other = 0x0}
method_op = {op_next = 0xcf7ebe70, op_sibling = 0x0, op_ppaddr =
0xcd55738 , op_targ = 0, op_type = 0, op_seq = 0, op_flags = 0
'\0', op_private = 0 '\0', op_first = 0x0}
oldmark = 0
retval = 0
oldscope = 8
oldcatch = 0 '\0'
oldop = (OP *) 0x8aba0900
cur_env = {je_prev = 0x885fdaf0, je_buf = {2114385048, -813777352,
215214467, 2114385048, 0, 116, 0, 0, 0, -813777320, 751991928}, je_ret =
2114385048, je_mustcatch = 120 'x'}
#7 0x0cd6593c in Perl_call_method (methname=0x2cd0daaf "FETCH", flags=0) at
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl.c:2542
No locals.
#8 0x0cd4338c in S_magic_methcall (sv=0x7e06f474, mg=0x8b64f860,
meth=0x2cd0daaf "FETCH", flags=0, n=2, val=0x8b4fd000) at
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/mg.c:1492
sp = (SV **) 0x87362288
#9 0x0cd434d8 in S_magic_methpack (sv=0x7e06f474, mg=0x8b64f860,
meth=0x2cd0daaf "FETCH") at /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/mg.c:1504
next = (PERL_SI *) 0x8b64f5e0
sp = (SV **) 0x2cd2a578
#10 0x0cd43618 in Perl_magic_getpack (sv=0x7e06f474, mg=0x0) at
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/mg.c:1519
No locals.
#11 0x0cd4156d in Perl_mg_get (sv=0x7e06f474) at
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/mg.c:169
vtbl = (const MGVTBL * const) 0x8b4fd000
mgs_ix = 328
have_new = 0
newmg = (MAGIC *) 0x8b64f860
head = (MAGIC *) 0x8b64f860
cur = (MAGIC *) 0x8b64f860
mg = (MAGIC *) 0x8b64f860
#12 0x0cd38d35 in Perl_sv_setsv_flags (dstr=0x7e06f48c, sstr=0x7e06f474,
flags=2) at /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/sv.c:3856
dtype = 0
stype = 9
#13 0x0cd3ceaf in Perl_sv_mortalcopy (oldstr=0x7e06f474) at
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/sv.c:6814
sv = (SV *) 0x7e06f48c
#14 0x0cd52336 in Perl_pp_helem () at /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/pp_hot.c:1786
sp = (SV **) 0x87aa7028
he = (HE *) 0x8b4fd000
svp = (SV **) 0x8398e3d4
lval = 0
defer = 0
sv = (SV *) 0x8b4fd000
hash = 0
preeminent = 0
#15 0x0cd7f5b9 in Perl_runops_standard () at /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/run.c:37
No locals.
#16 0x0cd655df in S_run_body (oldscope=1) at
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl.c:2368
No locals.
#17 0x0cd65533 in perl_run (my_perl=0x89323030) at
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl.c:2285
oldscope = 1
ret = -1956317728
cur_env = {je_prev = 0x2cd2a740, je_buf = {215372518, 751991928,
-813776740, -813776616, -813776480, -813776556, -813776564, 0, -2067320796,
160, -813826009}, je_ret = 3,
je_mustcatch = 1 '\001'}
#18 0x1c0012a6 in main ()
No symbol table info available.
Last page of the output from sa-learn -D --sync:
[...]
[19402] dbg: config: read file /usr/local/share/spamassassin/20_porn.cf
[19402] dbg: config: read file /usr/local/share/spamassassin/20_ratware.cf
[19402] dbg: config: read file /usr/local/share/spamassassin/20_ur
Re: Perl/libc? segfault
I tried to track this down to a single message but I failed - when I divided
the large mailbox into two halves, each of the halves went through successfully.
BTW, the spamassassing still segfaults regularly.
CL<
On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 06:27:13PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
> While running spamassassin (the one in OpenBSD 4.0) my Perl (also OBSD 4.0)
> happened to segfault when learning what is spam. There is no suspicion on bad
> hardware, and this situation already happened in the past several times
> ocassionally.
>
> There were 9153 spam messages in the folder. I'll try if I can isolate a
> single
> one that triggers it. It's actually segfaulting in libc in some hash
> manipulation routine but it's clear to me this can be a delayed memory
> corruption
> bug caused by some Perl binding or Perl itself.
>
> #0 0x00639d71 in memmove () from /usr/lib/libc.so.39.3
> No symbol table info available.
> #1 0x0062fcb4 in __delpair (hashp=0x7d5a5200, bufp=0x870d8040, ndx=1707) at
> /usr/src/lib/libc/db/hash/hash_page.c:140
> i = 2127618048
> src = 0x7ed0e000
> "\232\b{?v?q?l?g?b?]?X?S\b{?v?q?l?g?b?]?X?S?N?I?D???:?5?0?+?&?!?\234?\227?\222?\215?\210?\203?~?y?t?o?j?e?`?[?V?Q?L?G?B?=?8?3?.?)?$?\037?\032?\025?\020?\v?\006?\001?|>w>r>m>h>c>^>Y>T>O>J>E>@>;>6>1>,>'>">\235>\230>\223>\216>\211>\204>\177>z>u>p>k>f>a>\\>W>R>M>H>C>>>"...
> dst = 0xec1b
> bp = (u_int16_t *) 0x7d5a5200
> newoff = 4107
> pairlen = 18
> n = 2202
> #2 0x0062b812 in hash_access (hashp=0x7d5a5200, action=HASH_PUT,
> key=0xcf7e2190, val=0xcf7e2188) at /usr/src/lib/libc/db/hash/hash.c:670
> rbufp = (BUFHEAD *) 0x870d8040
> bufp = (BUFHEAD *) 0x267a2a96
> save_bufp = (BUFHEAD *) 0x870d8040
> bp = (u_int16_t *) 0xec1b
> n = 2202
> ndx = 1707
> off = -1953344059
> size = 5
> kp = 0x8b9255c0 "\020\237^5u"
> pageno = 4107
> #3 0x0557f083 in XS_DB_File_STORE () from
> /usr/libdata/perl5/i386-openbsd/5.8.8/auto/DB_File/DB_File.so
> No symbol table info available.
> #4 0x067ddd08 in Perl_pp_entersub () at
> /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/pp_hot.c:2877
> av = (AV * const) 0x267a81b0
> items = 645610516
> markix = 0
> sp = (SV **) 0x859c428c
> sv = (SV *) 0x876f43e4
> gv = (GV *) 0x5
> stash = (HV *) 0x0
> cv = (CV *) 0x876f43e4
> cx = (PERL_CONTEXT *) 0x267a81b0
> gimme = 0
> #5 0x068085b9 in Perl_runops_standard () at
> /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/run.c:37
> No locals.
> #6 0x067ef008 in S_call_body (myop=0xcf7e22f0, is_eval=27 '\033') at
> /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl.c:2733
> No locals.
> #7 0x067eef2e in Perl_call_sv (sv=0x85062030, flags=66) at
> /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl.c:2609
> sp = (SV **) 0x859c428c
> myop = {op_next = 0x0, op_sibling = 0x0, op_ppaddr = 0x67dda50
> , op_targ = 0, op_type = 0, op_seq = 0, op_flags = 66 'B',
> op_private = 0 '\0',
> op_first = 0x0, op_other = 0x0}
> method_op = {op_next = 0xcf7e22f0, op_sibling = 0x0, op_ppaddr =
> 0x67de738 , op_targ = 0, op_type = 0, op_seq = 0, op_flags =
> 0 '\0',
> op_private = 0 '\0', op_first = 0x0}
> oldmark = 0
> retval = 0
> oldscope = 23
> oldcatch = 0 '\0'
> oldop = (OP *) 0x7c774380
> cur_env = {je_prev = 0x8b9255e0, je_buf = {-2063196112, -813817160,
> 108820867, -2063196112, 0, 116, 0, 0, 0, 0, 645598328}, je_ret = -2063196112,
> je_mustcatch = 120 'x'}
> #8 0x067ee93c in Perl_call_method (methname=0x26796ab5 "STORE", flags=2) at
> /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl.c:2542
> No locals.
> #9 0x067cc38c in S_magic_methcall (sv=0x876a4d98, mg=0x870d8420,
> meth=0x26796ab5 "STORE", flags=2, n=3, val=0x7ed1100b) at
> /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/mg.c:1492
> sp = (SV **) 0x859c428c
> #10 0x067cc6e0 in Perl_magic_setpack (sv=0x876a4d98, mg=0x870d8420) at
> /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/mg.c:1529
> next = (PERL_SI *) 0x3402
> sp = (SV **) 0x267b3578
> #11 0x067ca62d in Perl_mg_set (sv=0x876a4d98) at
> /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/mg.c:236
> vtbl = (const MGVTBL *) 0x3402
> mgs_ix = 792
> mg = (MAGIC *) 0xec1b
> nextmg = (MAGIC *) 0x0
> #12 0x067d7535 in Perl_pp_sassign () at /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/pp_hot.c:125
> sp = (SV **) 0x816e6004
> right = (SV *)
Speeding up OBSD bootup
Is it possible to specify the kernel that the hardware for which there are drivers probing for but I don't have in my PC is absent? Since OBSD has no suspend to disk/RAM, the bootup speed is critical when working with a laptop in public transport. Or are there any other possible ways how to speed up the bootup process? CL<
Perl/libc? segfault
While running spamassassin (the one in OpenBSD 4.0) my Perl (also OBSD 4.0)
happened to segfault when learning what is spam. There is no suspicion on bad
hardware, and this situation already happened in the past several times
ocassionally.
There were 9153 spam messages in the folder. I'll try if I can isolate a single
one that triggers it. It's actually segfaulting in libc in some hash
manipulation routine but it's clear to me this can be a delayed memory
corruption
bug caused by some Perl binding or Perl itself.
#0 0x00639d71 in memmove () from /usr/lib/libc.so.39.3
No symbol table info available.
#1 0x0062fcb4 in __delpair (hashp=0x7d5a5200, bufp=0x870d8040, ndx=1707) at
/usr/src/lib/libc/db/hash/hash_page.c:140
i = 2127618048
src = 0x7ed0e000
"\232\b{?v?q?l?g?b?]?X?S\b{?v?q?l?g?b?]?X?S?N?I?D???:?5?0?+?&?!?\234?\227?\222?\215?\210?\203?~?y?t?o?j?e?`?[?V?Q?L?G?B?=?8?3?.?)?$?\037?\032?\025?\020?\v?\006?\001?|>w>r>m>h>c>^>Y>T>O>J>E>@>;>6>1>,>'>">\235>\230>\223>\216>\211>\204>\177>z>u>p>k>f>a>\\>W>R>M>H>C>>>"...
dst = 0xec1b
bp = (u_int16_t *) 0x7d5a5200
newoff = 4107
pairlen = 18
n = 2202
#2 0x0062b812 in hash_access (hashp=0x7d5a5200, action=HASH_PUT,
key=0xcf7e2190, val=0xcf7e2188) at /usr/src/lib/libc/db/hash/hash.c:670
rbufp = (BUFHEAD *) 0x870d8040
bufp = (BUFHEAD *) 0x267a2a96
save_bufp = (BUFHEAD *) 0x870d8040
bp = (u_int16_t *) 0xec1b
n = 2202
ndx = 1707
off = -1953344059
size = 5
kp = 0x8b9255c0 "\020\237^5u"
pageno = 4107
#3 0x0557f083 in XS_DB_File_STORE () from
/usr/libdata/perl5/i386-openbsd/5.8.8/auto/DB_File/DB_File.so
No symbol table info available.
#4 0x067ddd08 in Perl_pp_entersub () at /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/pp_hot.c:2877
av = (AV * const) 0x267a81b0
items = 645610516
markix = 0
sp = (SV **) 0x859c428c
sv = (SV *) 0x876f43e4
gv = (GV *) 0x5
stash = (HV *) 0x0
cv = (CV *) 0x876f43e4
cx = (PERL_CONTEXT *) 0x267a81b0
gimme = 0
#5 0x068085b9 in Perl_runops_standard () at /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/run.c:37
No locals.
#6 0x067ef008 in S_call_body (myop=0xcf7e22f0, is_eval=27 '\033') at
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl.c:2733
No locals.
#7 0x067eef2e in Perl_call_sv (sv=0x85062030, flags=66) at
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl.c:2609
sp = (SV **) 0x859c428c
myop = {op_next = 0x0, op_sibling = 0x0, op_ppaddr = 0x67dda50
, op_targ = 0, op_type = 0, op_seq = 0, op_flags = 66 'B',
op_private = 0 '\0',
op_first = 0x0, op_other = 0x0}
method_op = {op_next = 0xcf7e22f0, op_sibling = 0x0, op_ppaddr =
0x67de738 , op_targ = 0, op_type = 0, op_seq = 0, op_flags = 0
'\0',
op_private = 0 '\0', op_first = 0x0}
oldmark = 0
retval = 0
oldscope = 23
oldcatch = 0 '\0'
oldop = (OP *) 0x7c774380
cur_env = {je_prev = 0x8b9255e0, je_buf = {-2063196112, -813817160,
108820867, -2063196112, 0, 116, 0, 0, 0, 0, 645598328}, je_ret = -2063196112,
je_mustcatch = 120 'x'}
#8 0x067ee93c in Perl_call_method (methname=0x26796ab5 "STORE", flags=2) at
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl.c:2542
No locals.
#9 0x067cc38c in S_magic_methcall (sv=0x876a4d98, mg=0x870d8420,
meth=0x26796ab5 "STORE", flags=2, n=3, val=0x7ed1100b) at
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/mg.c:1492
sp = (SV **) 0x859c428c
#10 0x067cc6e0 in Perl_magic_setpack (sv=0x876a4d98, mg=0x870d8420) at
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/mg.c:1529
next = (PERL_SI *) 0x3402
sp = (SV **) 0x267b3578
#11 0x067ca62d in Perl_mg_set (sv=0x876a4d98) at
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/mg.c:236
vtbl = (const MGVTBL *) 0x3402
mgs_ix = 792
mg = (MAGIC *) 0xec1b
nextmg = (MAGIC *) 0x0
#12 0x067d7535 in Perl_pp_sassign () at /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/pp_hot.c:125
sp = (SV **) 0x816e6004
right = (SV *) 0x876a4d98
left = (SV *) 0x8506212c
#13 0x068085b9 in Perl_runops_standard () at /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/run.c:37
No locals.
#14 0x067ee5df in S_run_body (oldscope=1) at
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl.c:2368
No locals.
#15 0x067ee533 in perl_run (my_perl=0x7dcc3030) at
/usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/perl/perl.c:2285
oldscope = 1
ret = 1073738754
cur_env = {je_prev = 0x267b3740, je_buf = {108978918, 645598328,
-813816740, -813816616, -813816484, -813816560, -813816568, 0, -2025615324,
160, -813826009},
je_ret = 3, je_mustcatch = 1 '\001'}
#16 0x1c0012a6 in main ()
No symbol table info available.
CL<
PCC? GCC has crap optimization!
GCC has no idea about optimization even if the optimization is turned
to the maximum:
unsigned long long x(unsigned lo, unsigned hi)
{
return ((unsigned long long)hi << 32) | lo;
}
gcc -O3 -c -o a.o a.c; objdump -d a.o:
0: 55 push %ebp
1: 89 e5 mov%esp,%ebp
3: 8b 4d 0cmov0xc(%ebp),%ecx
6: 53 push %ebx
7: 89 ca mov%ecx,%edx
9: 31 db xor%ebx,%ebx
b: 8b 4d 08mov0x8(%ebp),%ecx
e: 31 c0 xor%eax,%eax
10: 09 da or %ebx,%edx
^^^ %ebx is zero here, can be thrown out
12: 09 c8 or %ecx,%eax
^^^ %ax is zero here, can be replaced with mov
%ecx, %eax
14: 8b 1c 24mov(%esp),%ebx
17: c9 leave
18: c3 ret
After seeing this I am not sure if GCC has a peephole optimizer but if they
have they have to add following rules:
or reg1, reg2 where reg1 is containing 0 can be thrown out
or reg1, reg2 where reg2 is containing 0 can be replaced with mov reg1, reg2
and possibly further peephole optimized
After some manual rewrite the function shrinks significantly to:
55 push %ebp
89 e5 mov%esp,%ebp
8b 4d 0cmov0xc(%ebp),%edx
53 push %ebx
8b 4d 08mov0x8(%ebp),%eax
8b 1c 24mov(%esp),%ebx
c9 leave
c3 ret
CL<
OpenBSD sticker considered cool by a layman
Some (cute) girl yesterday who doesn't understand computers at all pointed at my laptop and asked "where did you get this damned cool sticker"? It was the wireframe Puffy. People also tend to stare at Puffy when I use my laptop on the bus. I think this confirms that the stickers are really good design. I also have an O'Nell sticker on my laptop (surfing company). I guess it means that O'Neill with their undoubtedly huge budget are #2 in coolness here. Would it be possible to make a sticker with this picture, but with the small letters removed and the large ones all in one size? http://openbsd.org/images/tshirt-23.gif I would like to have the "OPENBSD" label under Puffy so people know what this is, put it into google etc. But don't want the "details", cause they sound a bit like an advert. I am glad that I can proudly put OpenBSD stickers on my stuff without feeling like an infantile nerd, which would definitely happen with the Linux logo. Personally, the feeling or message I am getting from these stickers is "we're not sloppy, we want to do everything well, including graphics design." In marketing terms, it makes an impression that OpenBSD has a good corporate identity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_identity). CL<
man strnlen mistake?
"In doing this, strnlen() looks only at the first maxlen characters at s and never beyond s+maxlen." Shouldn't it be "never beyond s+maxlen-1"? CL<
Proper way to install library from source
Hello I would like to have the AoTuV Vorbis encoder. There is no package for that. Is this supported on OpenBSD and if yes what is the proper way to do it? I downloaded the AoTuV libvorbis (it's just a different "version" of libvorbis), compiled, installed, then oggenc didn't recognize -q 2. So I removed oggenc and compiled oggenc from sources, that recognized -q -2 but segfaulted. I thought there is some mechanism to prevent loading a library with different version and segfault. When I remove all traces from libvorbis and install aotuv and vorbistools (oggenc) from sources, then it works like charm. But I don't have mplayer, audacity, mpd then which I want. CL<
Checking mailbox ownership.
I am getting this message from Charlie Root over and over: Checking mailbox ownership. user clock mailbox is drwx--, group users Does it mean I should change the mailbox flags or group? If yes, what are the correct values then? CL<
mc doesn't work on console
If I try to start mc (midnight commander) on a text console I get a black screen with one horizontal blue strip 1 char thick 2 chars from the bottom of the screen. It doesn't seem to work and behaves unpredictably. For example if I type "ls", instead of a list of files I get the whole screen blue. If I type "reset", the terminal doesn't start looking like a terminal again. The screen is default VGA 80x25 after bootup. Are you experiencing the same problem? In xterm it works fine. CL<
Re: Hack OpenBSD and improve fitness at the same time
On Fri, Jul 20, 2007 at 12:09:53PM +0100, Stefan Olsson wrote: > -Apart from health this could be used to generate electricity for Theo's > servers! Then you could put in a section on the Donations page to come over > and do a few hours on the bike and help keeping the electricity bill down. > On the hackathons developers could be put on bikes while developing or One could make a hackathon on some attractive, natually beautiful place without electricity. Someone would come with a large car and bring these machines. Then the hackers could happily hack and intersperse their hacking with enjoying the nature. You often get the key idea when you leave the computer for a short time. The hackathon could also move to enjoy multiple places. CL<
Re: GPL is free for forcing people to free code when they publish, not free as in free to do what you want, which is actually what free as in BSD, and real freedom ends at the tip of my nose
On Fri, Apr 13, 2007 at 08:25:43AM -0400, Umnada Tyrolla wrote: > Why isn't there some zealot out there who recodes gpl stuff into > bsd licensed code? That would be a service to developers, at least. Because preaching takes much less energy than sitting for long hours at a computer and figuring out why a piece of code is refusing to work. I myself coded some GPL software and released it, the biggest one is 25% of the Links browser which is included in the OpenBSD packages. It's not clear to me what's better, GPL or BSD. I don't care. Personally I always choose GPL for software projects and GFDL for hardware projects. Due to law, hardware is de facto always released under a BSD style licence. I didn't have any problem with the fact that my hardware is under BSD. Neither had I problem with my software being released under GPL. CL<
Re: 4.1 !
On Fri, Apr 13, 2007 at 11:10:26AM +0200, Paul de Weerd wrote: > It's in ! It looks very very very cool ;) > > Thanks Wim for such an incredibly speedy delivery ! In my last case Wim delivered very slowly. I wanted to buy an obsd hoodie as a christmas 2006 present. Wim assured me it shouldn't be a problem to pay and deliver it before christmas, and then the e-mail invoice (payment details) came as late as after christmas! So I didn't even pay him and told him it's of no use for me anymore because I had to buy a different gift instead of it. I wonder whether getting the graphics somehow and asking a local shop to burn it on a hoodie for personal use would be fair use. I'm almost sure it would. CL< > > Now, on to upgrade my machine ;) > > Paul > > PS: apologies in advance for the noise this will no doubt generate... > > -- > >[<++>-]<+++.>+++[<-->-]<.>+++[<+ > +++>-]<.>++[<>-]<+.--.[-] > http://www.weirdnet.nl/
Re: Zurich OpenBSD
On Wed, Jul 18, 2007 at 01:27:28PM +0400, Anton Karpov wrote: > > RFC, anyone? :) > > > > > My coffee had just run out, so no keyboard harmed. > > > > Timo > > > > > > I like the idea of T-shirts and stickers "It's an OpenBSD thing. You > wouldn't understand" ;-) I have the big white Puffy sticker on my black snowboard. It looks quite cool even without knowledge that it's about OpenBSD. So that all the people queing for the lift and watching other peoples' boring Volcom, Burton and Santa Cruz stickers know I am using OpenBSD ;-) CL<
Hack OpenBSD and improve fitness at the same time
I understand that hacking OpenBSD code requires a lot of time commitment sitting in front of a computer but that people possibly also have concerns about their health which needs regular exercise. Add an everyday job to this and you get a shortage of time. Therefore I have developed a special open source fitness machine for computer hackers which allows exercising while sitting at the keyboard. Twibright Exciter: http://ronja.twibright.com/exciter/ Happy hacking and no worries about your health anymore! CL<
Zurich OpenBSD
Hi I saw someone at Zurich Central with an OpenBSD t-shirt 2 days ago, I wonder if he's subscribed to this list. I should have stopped him ;-) CL<
Similar USB scanners
Hello uscanner(4) supports Epson Perfection 610U,636U,1200U,1200U Photo, but I can get only Perfection V10. Or HP ScanJet - supported 4100C, 5200C, 5300C, 6300C, but I can get only 2400C. Is there a chance that Epson Perfection V10 or HP ScanJet 2400C will be not only recognized, but will also work with the driver? CL<
Re: Security of the keyboard
On Wed, Jun 20, 2007 at 04:00:01PM +0200, Artur Grabowski wrote: > Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 07:05:38PM -0700, Don Scott wrote: > > > I think Artur Grabowski too easily dismisses the question. > > > > > > I'd be interested to know if you get any informative responses that > > > are not also posted to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Mikulas (the friend) told me the algorithm to hack the root > > password. First you need to know the addresses of the individual > > keys in the translation tables - that's probably doable from the > > operating system kernel memory map. > > > > Then you need to know how many way associative your cache is and how > > the addresses are shared. If it's say 4-way you use 4 addresses in > > your userspace that share the cache entry. Then you read all of them > > 4. > > > > Now comes the monitoring phase. You cyclically time how long it > > takes to read each of these 4 addresses using rdtsc. When you get > > anomalously high reading on any of them, you know the given address > > in the key translation table has been accessed. > > > > This will probably suffer from some noise (made up keystrokes - > > other process flushing the cache entry for you). > > "probably"? "some noise"? > > In pure theory, when the keyboard input is the only thing going on in > the machine, when the machine is disconnected from the network, has no > disk I/O when the password is typed and no other processes running, > you still get a few timer interrupts for every character being typed > (you do not type faster than 100 characters per second). Not only > that, but the whole path between the actual keyboard interrupt and > whereever you could find a table lookup (guess what? many table > entires share the same cache lines) stomps on so much cache that you'd > be completly lost in the noise. This is assuming a hyperthreaded cpu > where the monitoring thread can run uninterrupted all the time. > Without that, you're even more screwed because the context switches > will add even more noise to the side channel. > > These kinds of attacks are barely theoretically possible when the > attacker completly controls the operation that he's snooping on (which > happens with crypto operations). To use this for passive monitoring of > events as rare as keyboard input sounds like sensationalism. Sure, in > a very distant theory it might actually be doable, but rubber hose > cryptoanalysis is much more realistic in almost all scenarios I can > imagine. This kind of security design is assuming favourable constellation of uncontrollable environmental noises to scramble the information we are knowingly leaking. It's basically a snake oil. We have no proof that under every conceivable circumstances the noises will be present in a way that completely masks the information leak. Why not write the keyboard driver the same way how the friend did it in his OS - using bitmasking and avoiding conditional jumps and lookup tables? Then the security would be guaranteed and not just hoped for. > > And guess what. Keyboards use a serial protocol. Which means that > there will be slightly different voltage drops in the system varying The capacitors and regulator which are made to keep the voltage almost constant with a swing of tens of amperes (60W/1.5V=40A) will not permit a measurable swing when you change the current draw by a milliamp or so. The precision of voltage measurement is too low for this and the noise from other permanently running sources too high. CL<
OpenSSL key theft through cache timing
http://www.daemonology.net/papers/htt.pdf This is the missing link to my post about keyboard security. CL<
Re: Security of the keyboard
On Tue, Jun 19, 2007 at 07:05:38PM -0700, Don Scott wrote: > I think Artur Grabowski too easily dismisses the question. > > I'd be interested to know if you get any informative responses that > are not also posted to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mikulas (the friend) told me the algorithm to hack the root password. First you need to know the addresses of the individual keys in the translation tables - that's probably doable from the operating system kernel memory map. Then you need to know how many way associative your cache is and how the addresses are shared. If it's say 4-way you use 4 addresses in your userspace that share the cache entry. Then you read all of them 4. Now comes the monitoring phase. You cyclically time how long it takes to read each of these 4 addresses using rdtsc. When you get anomalously high reading on any of them, you know the given address in the key translation table has been accessed. This will probably suffer from some noise (made up keystrokes - other process flushing the cache entry for you). But I guess if you run this long enough and the admin comes to the console and types the root password and you see "root" in the keystroke stream and you have luck that no other activity created too much fake keystrokes, then you can know or at least well guess for the password. Of course this will be a local exploit only. This stuf is generally called "side channels" (don't confuse with covert channels). The idea is that a secret information leaks out and can be read in supposedly irrelevant signs of the CPU operation. It's the CPU equivalent of trashdiving - picking up those yellow post-it notes from the dustbin and searching for the root passwords. Like if you ask someone and he needs a time to think even for a trivial question, then he's probably lying - he needs brain CPU time to carefully make things up in a way it doesn't create apparent discrepancies. But if you ask him "are you lying", he tells you "no". You are getting an access to a secret through the timing. Mikulas said he even knew some link to where they cracked OpenSSL this way - Mikulas can you post it? CL< > > On 6/19/07, Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >A friend who is happening to write his own operating system just pointed > >out > >to me that a keyboard driver cannot use > > > >- lookup tables, because timing accessing these lookup tables would yield > > information what key was pressed when entering a root password > >- tests and jumps, because the same would be possible with the BTB (branch > > target buffer). > > > >He said he had to write the whole driver using logical operation masking. > >Does > >OpenBSD also have this trick? How is the keyboard security designed in > >OpenBSD > >to prevent these covert channels leaking the information to an unprivileged > >process? > > > >CL<
Security of the keyboard
A friend who is happening to write his own operating system just pointed out to me that a keyboard driver cannot use - lookup tables, because timing accessing these lookup tables would yield information what key was pressed when entering a root password - tests and jumps, because the same would be possible with the BTB (branch target buffer). He said he had to write the whole driver using logical operation masking. Does OpenBSD also have this trick? How is the keyboard security designed in OpenBSD to prevent these covert channels leaking the information to an unprivileged process? CL<
Re: sockaddr_in in manpage and /usr/include different
On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 04:29:48PM +0200, Andreas Maus wrote: > On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 03:29:52PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > Hi. > > > OpenBSD 4.0 man 7 ip says: > Thats interesting. On my OpenBSD 4.0 systems I don't have a man 7 ip. > I have a man 4 ip instead - and only man 4 ip. > > Where did your man 7 ip come from? Section 7 of the man pages are dedicated > to "Macros and Conventions". What file will be use when you run man 7 ip ? > My systems will use: I made a mistake I actually looked on a manpage in a Linux system. But there is still a problem, in which manpage on OpenBSD 4.0 is the sockaddr_in described, then? I tried various ones like ip, socket, bind, and couldn't find any. CL< > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ man -w ip > /usr/share/man/cat4/ip.0 > > HTH, > > Andreas. > > -- > Windows 95: A 32-bit patch for a 16-bit GUI shell running on top of > an 8-bit operating system written for a 4-bit processor by a 2-bit > company who cannot stand 1 bit of competition.
sockaddr_in in manpage and /usr/include different
OpenBSD 4.0 man 7 ip says:
struct sockaddr_in {
sa_family_tsin_family; /* address family: AF_INET */
u_int16_t sin_port; /* port in network byte order */
struct in_addr sin_addr; /* internet address */
};
/usr/include/netinet/in.h:
struct sockaddr_in {
u_int8_tsin_len;
sa_family_t sin_family;
in_port_t sin_port;
struct in_addr sin_addr;
int8_t sin_zero[8];
};
No wonder my program didn't work properly and sent UDP with a nonsensical
source port when I wrote it according to the manpage and the manpage is wrong.
When I added the sin_len entry, it started to work properly.
CL<
mplayer and libdvdread and libdvdcss
I tried to play a .vob file with mplayer and got this message: Encrypted VOB file! Read DOCS/HTML/en/cd-dvd.html So I read /home/clock/MPlayer-1.0rc1/DOCS/HTML/en/cd-dvd.html and that says: "MPlayer uses libdvdread and libdvdcss for DVD playback and decryption. These two libraries are contained in the libmpdvdkit2 subdirectory of the MPlayer source tree, you do not have to install them separately." I even made sure these two libraries are installed in the system, but it still gives the same error message. I also tried a mplayer compiled from source, but that says: FATAL: Could not initialize video filters (-vf) or video output (-vo). Was the libdvdcss stripped from mplayer when it was being prepared for OpenBSD? Is there a way how to play encrypted .vob files on OpenBSD? CL<
Machine freezes from invalid Ethernet packets
Hello
I connected a 10Mbps free space optics link to a 10Mbps hub to which OpenBSD
4.0 machine (Dell Inspiron 510m) was connected. The link had probably bad
signal because on the Dell directly (i. e. in the NIC) I could receive the RTP
that was transmitted through the link, but another device couldn't, a switch
wouldn't broadcast it (even when it were IP/Ethernet broadcast) and the hub was
flashing traffic only on the LED where it was connected and not the other ones
(so it probably thought the traffic is damaged and not worth, though it didn't
report any collisions).
After a while observing nonsensical Ethernet frames with nonsensical protocol
fields in Wireshark (which went away when I shielded away the carrier beam) I
realized the machine is dead. The external mouse wouldn't move the pointer, the
touchpad wouldn't, ctrl-alt-backspace didn't shut down the X server, no
reactions to input. Turning off however worked.
Do you have any idea if this could be a hardware bug in the Intel ethernet
NIC or rather a buggy fxp driver in OBSD?
CL<
OpenBSD 4.0-stable (GENERIC) #0: Sat Mar 17 00:07:37 CET 2007
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC
cpu0: Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.50GHz ("GenuineIntel" 686-class) 1.50
GHz
cpu0:
FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,TM,SBF,EST,TM2
cpu0: Enhanced SpeedStep 1500 MHz (1340 mV): speeds: 1500, 1200, 1000, 800, 600
MHz
real mem = 53504 (522500K)
avail mem = 480100352 (468848K)
using 4256 buffers containing 26853376 bytes (26224K) of memory
mainbus0 (root)
bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+(00) BIOS, date 01/28/05, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xffe90,
SMBIOS rev. 2.3 @ 0xf8d00 (61 entries)
bios0: Dell Inc. Inspiron 510m
pcibios0 at bios0: rev 2.1 @ 0xf/0x1
pcibios0: PCI IRQ Routing Table rev 1.0 @ 0xfc590/176 (9 entries)
pcibios0: PCI Interrupt Router at 000:31:0 ("Intel 82371 ISA and IDE" rev 0x00)
pcibios0: PCI bus #2 is the last bus
bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0xd800! 0xcd800/0x800 0xce000/0x800 0xce800/0x800
0xcf000/0x800 0xcf800/0x800
cpu0 at mainbus0
pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (no bios)
pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 "Intel 82852GM Hub-PCI" rev 0x02
"Intel 82852GM Memory" rev 0x02 at pci0 dev 0 function 1 not configured
"Intel 82852GM Configuration" rev 0x02 at pci0 dev 0 function 3 not configured
vga1 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 "Intel 82852GM AGP" rev 0x02: aperture at
0xf000, size 0x800
wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation)
wsdisplay0: screen 1-5 added (80x25, vt100 emulation)
"Intel 82852GM AGP" rev 0x02 at pci0 dev 2 function 1 not configured
uhci0 at pci0 dev 29 function 0 "Intel 82801DB USB" rev 0x01: irq 11
usb0 at uhci0: USB revision 1.0
uhub0 at usb0
uhub0: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1
uhub0: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered
uhci1 at pci0 dev 29 function 1 "Intel 82801DB USB" rev 0x01: irq 11
usb1 at uhci1: USB revision 1.0
uhub1 at usb1
uhub1: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1
uhub1: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered
uhci2 at pci0 dev 29 function 2 "Intel 82801DB USB" rev 0x01: irq 11
usb2 at uhci2: USB revision 1.0
uhub2 at usb2
uhub2: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1
uhub2: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered
ehci0 at pci0 dev 29 function 7 "Intel 82801DB USB" rev 0x01: irq 11
usb3 at ehci0: USB revision 2.0
uhub3 at usb3
uhub3: Intel EHCI root hub, rev 2.00/1.00, addr 1
uhub3: 6 ports with 6 removable, self powered
ppb0 at pci0 dev 30 function 0 "Intel 82801BAM Hub-to-PCI" rev 0x81
pci1 at ppb0 bus 1
cbb0 at pci1 dev 1 function 0 "TI PCI4510 CardBus" rev 0x02: irq 11
"TI PCI4510 FireWire" rev 0x00 at pci1 dev 1 function 1 not configured
ipw0 at pci1 dev 3 function 0 "Intel PRO/Wireless 2100" rev 0x04: irq 11,
address 00:0c:f1:61:60:36
fxp0 at pci1 dev 8 function 0 "Intel PRO/100 VE" rev 0x81, i82562: irq 11,
address 00:11:43:52:46:e7
inphy0 at fxp0 phy 1: i82562ET 10/100 PHY, rev. 0
cardslot0 at cbb0 slot 0 flags 0
cardbus0 at cardslot0: bus 2 device 0 cacheline 0x8, lattimer 0x20
pcmcia0 at cardslot0
ichpcib0 at pci0 dev 31 function 0 "Intel 82801DBM LPC" rev 0x01
pciide0 at pci0 dev 31 function 1 "Intel 82801DBM IDE" rev 0x01: DMA, channel 0
configured to compatibility, channel 1 configured to compatibility
wd0 at pciide0 channel 0 drive 0:
wd0: 16-sector PIO, LBA48, 76319MB, 156301488 sectors
wd0(pciide0:0:0): using PIO mode 4, Ultra-DMA mode 5
atapiscsi0 at pciide0 channel 1 drive 0
scsibus0 at atapiscsi0: 2 targets
cd0 at scsibus0 targ 0 lun 0: SCSI0 5/cdrom
removable
cd0(pciide0:1:0): using PIO mode 4, Ultra-DMA mode 2
auich0 at pci0 dev 31 function 5 "Intel 82801DB AC97" rev 0x01: irq 11, ICH4
AC97
ac97: codec id 0x83847650 (SigmaTel STAC9750/51)
ac97: codec features headphone, 20 bit DAC, 20 bit ADC, SigmaTel 3D
audio0 at auich0
isa0 at ichpcib0
isadma0 at isa0
pckbc0 at isa0 port 0x60/5
pckbd0 at pckbc0 (kbd slot)
pckbc0: using irq 1 for kbd slot
wskbd0 at pckbd0:
nonsense from OBSD 4.0 ping
I have the OpenBSD 4.0 ping and it wrote this: 64 bytes from 192.168.2.215: icmp_seq=3029 ttl=64 time=6.057 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.2.215: icmp_seq=3035 ttl=64 time=44.108 ms 64 bytes from 192.168.2.215: icmp_seq=3036 ttl=64 time=-994831.-515 ms ^ Parse error: minus sign not allowed between decimal dot and the decimal part. CL<
X Window System crash
Looks like X Windows have some race condition or maybe it's in the kernel?
I've been running spamassassin learning which loaded the system. Then I
started X Windows System with "startx". During normal startup, a screen of
garbage flashes and is replaced with black screen and then with X background.
But this time, the garbage stayed. The learning was still running as I could
see by disk activity. I let it overnight and in the morning, there was still
garbage.
I know Linux has a problem like this - the console switching there is designed
in a flawed way, the simple signal mechanism contains a race condition, which
triggers typically during overloaded system. But that OpenBSD would have a
similar problem? Or is it a bug of the X Window System?
dmesg follows:
OpenBSD 4.0-stable (GENERIC) #0: Sat Mar 17 00:07:37 CET 2007
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC
cpu0: Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.50GHz ("GenuineIntel" 686-class) 1.50
GHz
cpu0:
FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,TM,SBF,EST,TM2
cpu0: Enhanced SpeedStep 1500 MHz (1340 mV): speeds: 1500, 1200, 1000, 800, 600
MHz
real mem = 53504 (522500K)
avail mem = 480100352 (468848K)
using 4256 buffers containing 26853376 bytes (26224K) of memory
mainbus0 (root)
bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+(00) BIOS, date 01/28/05, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xffe90,
SMBIOS rev. 2.3 @ 0xf8d00 (61 entries)
bios0: Dell Inc. Inspiron 510m
pcibios0 at bios0: rev 2.1 @ 0xf/0x1
pcibios0: PCI IRQ Routing Table rev 1.0 @ 0xfc590/176 (9 entries)
pcibios0: PCI Interrupt Router at 000:31:0 ("Intel 82371 ISA and IDE" rev 0x00)
pcibios0: PCI bus #2 is the last bus
bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0xd800! 0xcd800/0x800 0xce000/0x800 0xce800/0x800
0xcf000/0x800 0xcf800/0x800
cpu0 at mainbus0
pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (no bios)
pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 "Intel 82852GM Hub-PCI" rev 0x02
"Intel 82852GM Memory" rev 0x02 at pci0 dev 0 function 1 not configured
"Intel 82852GM Configuration" rev 0x02 at pci0 dev 0 function 3 not configured
vga1 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 "Intel 82852GM AGP" rev 0x02: aperture at
0xf000, size 0x800
wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation)
wsdisplay0: screen 1-5 added (80x25, vt100 emulation)
"Intel 82852GM AGP" rev 0x02 at pci0 dev 2 function 1 not configured
uhci0 at pci0 dev 29 function 0 "Intel 82801DB USB" rev 0x01: irq 11
usb0 at uhci0: USB revision 1.0
uhub0 at usb0
uhub0: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1
uhub0: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered
uhci1 at pci0 dev 29 function 1 "Intel 82801DB USB" rev 0x01: irq 11
usb1 at uhci1: USB revision 1.0
uhub1 at usb1
uhub1: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1
uhub1: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered
uhci2 at pci0 dev 29 function 2 "Intel 82801DB USB" rev 0x01: irq 11
usb2 at uhci2: USB revision 1.0
uhub2 at usb2
uhub2: Intel UHCI root hub, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1
uhub2: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered
ehci0 at pci0 dev 29 function 7 "Intel 82801DB USB" rev 0x01: irq 11
usb3 at ehci0: USB revision 2.0
uhub3 at usb3
uhub3: Intel EHCI root hub, rev 2.00/1.00, addr 1
uhub3: 6 ports with 6 removable, self powered
ppb0 at pci0 dev 30 function 0 "Intel 82801BAM Hub-to-PCI" rev 0x81
pci1 at ppb0 bus 1
cbb0 at pci1 dev 1 function 0 "TI PCI4510 CardBus" rev 0x02: irq 11
"TI PCI4510 FireWire" rev 0x00 at pci1 dev 1 function 1 not configured
ipw0 at pci1 dev 3 function 0 "Intel PRO/Wireless 2100" rev 0x04: irq 11,
address 00:0c:f1:61:60:36
fxp0 at pci1 dev 8 function 0 "Intel PRO/100 VE" rev 0x81, i82562: irq 11,
address 00:11:43:52:46:e7
inphy0 at fxp0 phy 1: i82562ET 10/100 PHY, rev. 0
cardslot0 at cbb0 slot 0 flags 0
cardbus0 at cardslot0: bus 2 device 0 cacheline 0x8, lattimer 0x20
pcmcia0 at cardslot0
ichpcib0 at pci0 dev 31 function 0 "Intel 82801DBM LPC" rev 0x01
pciide0 at pci0 dev 31 function 1 "Intel 82801DBM IDE" rev 0x01: DMA, channel 0
configured to compatibility, channel 1 configured to compatibility
wd0 at pciide0 channel 0 drive 0:
wd0: 16-sector PIO, LBA48, 76319MB, 156301488 sectors
wd0(pciide0:0:0): using PIO mode 4, Ultra-DMA mode 5
atapiscsi0 at pciide0 channel 1 drive 0
scsibus0 at atapiscsi0: 2 targets
cd0 at scsibus0 targ 0 lun 0: SCSI0 5/cdrom
removable
cd0(pciide0:1:0): using PIO mode 4, Ultra-DMA mode 2
auich0 at pci0 dev 31 function 5 "Intel 82801DB AC97" rev 0x01: irq 11, ICH4
AC97
ac97: codec id 0x83847650 (SigmaTel STAC9750/51)
ac97: codec features headphone, 20 bit DAC, 20 bit ADC, SigmaTel 3D
audio0 at auich0
isa0 at ichpcib0
isadma0 at isa0
pckbc0 at isa0 port 0x60/5
pckbd0 at pckbc0 (kbd slot)
pckbc0: using irq 1 for kbd slot
wskbd0 at pckbd0: console keyboard, using wsdisplay0
pms0 at pckbc0 (aux slot)
pckbc0: using irq 12 for aux slot
wsmouse0 at pms0 mux 0
pcppi0 at isa0 port 0x61
midi0 at pcppi0:
spkr0 at pcppi0
npx0 at isa0 port 0xf0/16: reported by CPUID; using exception 16
pccom0 at isa0 port 0x3f8/8 irq 4: ns16550a,
Re: scp problem with remote filename escaping
On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 09:33:57AM +0200, Otto Moerbeek wrote: > > On Thu, 12 Apr 2007, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > > On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 10:02:50PM +0100, Stuart Henderson wrote: > > > On 2007/04/11 13:41, Bryan Irvine wrote: > > > > > > > > >I agree, spaces in filenames should be avoided. But spaces in > > > > >filenames are legal, so programs need to support that; this seems like > > > > >a case scp was never tested against because no one uses files with > > > > >those names. > > > > > > > > I scp'd a file called 'a b' to an openbsd server here, then scp'd it > > > > back a couple time in different ways. It worked only when using the > > > > quotes AND escaping, like so: > > > > > > > > scp [EMAIL PROTECTED]:"a\ b" . > > > > > > you have to escape to *both* your local shell, and the remote shell > > > > You must not escape to your local shell in case the scp process is called > > directly by e. g. exec() function in C. > > > > If you have to escape to the remote shell, then it should be mentioned > > in man scp. "escape" and "shell" don't occur in man scp and "remote" doesn't > > occur in such a context there. > > > > If I wrote it, I would do it in a way that scp performed the escaping > > for the remote shell automatically. Having to supply a different filename > > depending on where the file is goes against the local-remote transparency > > that scp is attempting at. > > What you forget is that scp is implementing the same protocol that rcp > uses. The protocol has a lot of shortcomings. Well in this case I suggest that it's clearly indicated in the manual page in what format the filenames have to be encoded. CL< > > See http://www.openssh.com/faq.html#2.10 > > But it looks like sftp has some problem with spaces in file names > as well. > > ie, this fails: > > sftp remote:"/tmp/a b" . > > In interactive mode, I can specify get 'a b', that works. > > -Otto
Re: scp problem with remote filename escaping
On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 01:13:16AM +0300, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 04:41:41PM -0500, Matthew R. Dempsky wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 10:02:50PM +0100, Stuart Henderson wrote:
> > > On 2007/04/11 13:41, Bryan Irvine wrote:
> > > > scp [EMAIL PROTECTED]:"a\ b" .
> > >
> > > you have to escape to *both* your local shell, and the remote shell
> >
> > This has always seemed silly to me. Does anyone intentionally use
> >
> >$ scp host:"a b" .
> >
> > instead of
> >
> >$ scp host:"{a,b}" .
>
> Does anyone intentionally use
>
> scp '[EMAIL PROTECTED]:`rm -fr /`' /dev/null ?
Security hole in scp. Send someone an e-mail attachment named
`rm -fr /`. If he uses multiple machines, it's possible he'll want to
copy it and writes a similar command to the above according to the
scp man page. Then he wonders why his files disappeared.
CL<
Re: scp problem with remote filename escaping
On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 10:02:50PM +0100, Stuart Henderson wrote: > On 2007/04/11 13:41, Bryan Irvine wrote: > > > > >I agree, spaces in filenames should be avoided. But spaces in > > >filenames are legal, so programs need to support that; this seems like > > >a case scp was never tested against because no one uses files with > > >those names. > > > > I scp'd a file called 'a b' to an openbsd server here, then scp'd it > > back a couple time in different ways. It worked only when using the > > quotes AND escaping, like so: > > > > scp [EMAIL PROTECTED]:"a\ b" . > > you have to escape to *both* your local shell, and the remote shell You must not escape to your local shell in case the scp process is called directly by e. g. exec() function in C. If you have to escape to the remote shell, then it should be mentioned in man scp. "escape" and "shell" don't occur in man scp and "remote" doesn't occur in such a context there. If I wrote it, I would do it in a way that scp performed the escaping for the remote shell automatically. Having to supply a different filename depending on where the file is goes against the local-remote transparency that scp is attempting at. CL<
Re: scp problem with remote filename escaping
On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 10:55:29PM +0200, Simon Effenberg wrote: > On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 04:17:38PM -0400, Nick ! wrote: > > On 4/11/07, Dan Farrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > > >> Of Karel Kulhavy > > >> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 3:47 PM > > >> To: OpenBSD > > >> Subject: scp problem with remote filename escaping > > >> Sounds like a bug to me - the escaping for the remote shell is not being > > >> done > > >> correctly? > > > > > >Wow. > > > > > >Seriously, I think the real 'bug' is your file naming conventions. > > > > > >Who would anyone specifically want to name a file with a space in it... > > >and if breaks on scp, where else will that screwy naming convention > > >break as well? > > > > > >I'm sure you'll give some really good reason why the files have to be > > >named that way... > > > > I agree, spaces in filenames should be avoided. But spaces in > > filenames are legal, so programs need to support that; this seems like > > a case scp was never tested against because no one uses files with > > those names. > > > > -Nick > > > > scp needs 3 * \ for one space.. scp needs one (1) \ for one space in case of remote file and zero (0) \ in case of local one. The extra \'s are for bash but bash is irrelevant in this case. It's just one possible method of calling the process. Another method is writing a small C program and using exec. CL< > > scp [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/what/you/want/a\\\ b.txtlocalfile.txt > > \s > > -- > GnuPG: 5755FB64 > > Per aspera ad astra.
Re: scp problem with remote filename escaping
On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 04:17:38PM -0400, Nick ! wrote: > On 4/11/07, Dan Farrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > >> Of Karel Kulhavy > >> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 3:47 PM > >> To: OpenBSD > >> Subject: scp problem with remote filename escaping > >> Sounds like a bug to me - the escaping for the remote shell is not being > >> done > >> correctly? > > > >Wow. > > > >Seriously, I think the real 'bug' is your file naming conventions. > > > >Who would anyone specifically want to name a file with a space in it... > >and if breaks on scp, where else will that screwy naming convention > >break as well? > > > >I'm sure you'll give some really good reason why the files have to be > >named that way... > > I agree, spaces in filenames should be avoided. But spaces in Where is this documented, that "spaces in filenames should be avoided"? man scp doesn't mention this. CL< > filenames are legal, so programs need to support that; this seems like > a case scp was never tested against because no one uses files with > those names. > > -Nick
Re: scp problem with remote filename escaping
On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 04:11:48PM -0400, Dan Farrell wrote: > Wow. > > Seriously, I think the real 'bug' is your file naming conventions. Bug is when behaviour is different from documentation. What is the behaviour and what is the documentation in the case of "my file naming conventions"? > Who would anyone specifically want to name a file with a space in it... I think the question of motivation is irrelevant here. The scp does something else than is written in the manpage. > and if breaks on scp, where else will that screwy naming convention > break as well? > > I'm sure you'll give some really good reason why the files have to be > named that way... They don't have to be. It's actually completely irrelevant in this case whether they have to be named with spaces or don't. scp does something else than is written in the manpage regardless of the user's motivation. CL< > > > danno > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Karel Kulhavy > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 3:47 PM > To: OpenBSD > Subject: scp problem with remote filename escaping > Sounds like a bug to me - the escaping for the remote shell is not being > done > correctly?
scp problem with remote filename escaping
For the same filename, sometimes you have to specify a different filename to scp, depending on whether the file is on remote system or local one. I have created a remote file whose filename "a b" is 3 chars long - ASCII codes 97, 32, 98 scp '[EMAIL PROTECTED]:a b' . doesn't work - prints: scp: a: No such file or directory scp: b: No such file or directory I have to type scp '[EMAIL PROTECTED]:a\ b' . which propagates to the scp process as a single argument containing a backslash, as can be seen with touch a\ b (creates a file named "a b") scp a\ b d - works scp 'a\ b' d - cp: a\ b: No such file or directory The manual page says I should specify "file1" and "file2", which (lacking further details) implies the filename is supplied without any further encoding. All the more without an encoding which depends on where the file actually lies. Sounds like a bug to me - the escaping for the remote shell is not being done correctly? Is this the intended behaviour of scp from OpenBSD 4.0? I would tell the version of the scp but scp -version, --version, -V and -v doesn't work and man scp doesn't contain the word "version". CL<
Why gtk-gnutella stopped working
Hello gtk-gnutella shipped with OpenBSD 4.0 is now obsolete and obsolete versions are banned after 1 year from the Gnutella network. If you are wondering, why it's suddenly not working, uninstall gtk-gnutella, download the official one, delete ~/.gtk-gnutella, do Configure -d, make, make install and it should work again. It worked just fine for me. CL<
Re: Installing Skype
On Sun, Mar 25, 2007 at 10:36:37PM +0200, Joachim Schipper wrote: > On Sun, Mar 25, 2007 at 09:48:35PM +0200, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 23, 2007 at 03:26:25PM -0700, J.C. Roberts wrote: > > > On Friday 23 March 2007 12:13, Tobias Weisserth wrote: > > > > From the emails in this thread we know he needs it for work, so he > > > > hasn't really got a choice. There's no other client to the Skype > > > > network. Maybe there's a way to lockin Skype in systrace. On openSUSE > > > > I locked Skype in with AppArmor for my parents. If you need to talk > > > > to people on Skype you don't really have a choice. > > > > > > Well, it might not work for everyone but I took a different approach to > > > solving the skype problem. I decided to be a prick and require people > > > using Skype to have a standard phone number via SkypeIn. Being locked > > > into the insecure, proprietary skype world is really their problem and > > > I refuse to join them. > > > > > > Once you have a standard way to contact the skype user via a normal > > > phone number, then you are free to deploy and use whatever you want on > > > your end to reduce your costs... > > > > > > -http://www.asterisk.org/ > > Tried on OpenBSD, doesn't work. > > Then you did something wrong, as there's a port. No in the port Asterisk cannot work as a SIP client. Asterisk works as a SIP server - I had it running under OpenBSD and it worked just fine, clients could register and could be called, etc. But the guy wants a SIP client. Asterisk can do this, but needs some extra modules for this - audio output, dial etc. And the audio module is disabled in the OpenBSD port because it doesn't compile. CL< > > > > -http://www.openwengo.com/ > > Tried on OpenBSD, doesn't work. > > > -http://www.gizmoproject.com/ > > Tried on OpenBSD, doesn't work. > > No idea whether or not those work. > > Joachim
Re: Installing Skype
On Fri, Mar 23, 2007 at 03:26:25PM -0700, J.C. Roberts wrote: > On Friday 23 March 2007 12:13, Tobias Weisserth wrote: > > From the emails in this thread we know he needs it for work, so he > > hasn't really got a choice. There's no other client to the Skype > > network. Maybe there's a way to lockin Skype in systrace. On openSUSE > > I locked Skype in with AppArmor for my parents. If you need to talk > > to people on Skype you don't really have a choice. > > Well, it might not work for everyone but I took a different approach to > solving the skype problem. I decided to be a prick and require people > using Skype to have a standard phone number via SkypeIn. Being locked > into the insecure, proprietary skype world is really their problem and > I refuse to join them. > > Once you have a standard way to contact the skype user via a normal > phone number, then you are free to deploy and use whatever you want on > your end to reduce your costs... > > -http://www.asterisk.org/ Tried on OpenBSD, doesn't work. > -http://www.openwengo.com/ Tried on OpenBSD, doesn't work. > -http://www.gizmoproject.com/ Tried on OpenBSD, doesn't work. The guy wants it on OpenBSD. CL< > -http://www.google.com/talk/ (supposedly SIP soon -see link below) > -http://code.google.com/apis/talk/open_communications.html > -whatever > -long distance plan on your cell phone > -and surprisingly enough, even your PTSN land line > > The above should be enough to make anyone wonder if they actually *need* > skype at all but if someone decides to use and pay for skype, then it's > their responisibility to become compatible with the rest of the world. > > jcr
Re: Installing Skype
On Fri, Mar 23, 2007 at 12:03:54PM -0700, J.C. Roberts wrote: > On Friday 23 March 2007 11:35, Tobias Weisserth wrote: > > On Mar 23, 2007, at 6:24 PM, Rafael Morales wrote: > > > I need the shared library libasound.so.2, anybody > > > could send to me ???, I don't have a linux box here. > > > > I need my box rooted, can anybody please send me a trojaned binary > > library I have to trust blindly? > > Tobias, > > You telling the above good advice to someone, Rafael, who is *already* > trying to install a trojaned binary (skype) on their OpenBSD system. > > Skype is dangerous. Periord. End of discussion. Fortunately, when someone writes "end of discussion", the discussion actually doesn't have to end, as you are seeing right now. Here is a bibliography that supports the claim better than a proclamation "Periord". http://blackhat.com/presentations/bh-europe-06/bh-eu-06-biondi/bh-eu-06-biondi-up.pdf See page 104 which seems to claim that there is an arithmetic overflow in skype. Even a screenshot of cracked system is supplied. Though, it's not difficult to fabricate such a screenshot with GIMP ;-) CL< > > If anyone doesn't believe the above statement of fact, they have only > two possible ways to prove or disprove it: > > 1.) Have the many months of time and highly advanced reverse engineering > skills necessary to fully audit the skype binaries including getting > around their executable packing, morphing, validation, anti-debugging > and other nasty ways of preventing much needed auditing and analysis. > > __OR__ > > 2.) Just read the damn skype licnese which requires you to agree to let > your system and bandwidth be used for any known or unknown purposes > that eBay/Skype wants. > > jcr
Re: No Blob without Puffy
On Tue, Mar 20, 2007 at 10:03:14AM -0400, Dan Farrell wrote: > I second that. > > danno > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of chefren > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 7:34 PM > To: misc@openbsd.org > Subject: Re: No Blob without Puffy > > On 3/19/07 4:48 PM, Marco Peereboom wrote: > > You are so uninformed that it isn't even funny to pick on you. > > Karel clocks on the wrong edge and is by far the worst educated > asocial asshole I have met on this list. Easy man, you need to get laid. CL< > > +++chefren
Re: No Blob without Puffy
On Tue, Mar 20, 2007 at 12:43:06AM -0400, Daniel Ouellet wrote: > > Tell me, would you let Microsoft for example, access your servers to see > if they work well? I don't think so. But again, you might already do > that via BLOB. You just don't know. Interesting story about a security breach. Did this ever happen with a firmware for a wireless chipset? Or directly in the wireless chip? Or, even funnier, in the CPU or the northbridge? Technically it's definitely possible. CL<
Re: No Blob without Puffy
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 07:52:35PM -0600, Tony Abernethy wrote: > Lars D. Nooden wrote: > > > > On Mon, 19 Mar 2007, Dave Anderson wrote: > > > You've left out the extremely important fact that many vendors > > > interpret acceptance of blobs by any "free" OS as validating their > > > position of not releasing adequate documentation -- so accepting blobs > > > (even when "there's no other choice") actively harms the anti-blob > > > campaign. > > > > It harms more than just the campaign, it harms anyone wanting to maintain > > a modicum of options further down the road in regards to hardware > > lifecycles, operating system and kernel lifecycles, and last but not least > > security. > > > > One anecdote regarding insecurity of mysterious binaries / BLOBs: > > A local privilege escation has been known to exist, unfixed, for several > > years in nvidia's binary drivers: > > http://lwn.net/Articles/204541/ > > > > However, if you can't audit (and subsequently compile) all the code, > > including the applications, libraries, compilers and OS, then you've got > > nothing secure and nothing that can be made secure - regardless of > > anecdotes, no amount of assurances, claims, hand waving, shouting, smoke, > > noise etc. from vendors. Don't take my word for it, read what the ACM had > > to say about it: > > http://www.acm.org/classics/sep95/ > > > > But it's not just 'security' that is at risk. The lifecycle of both the > > operating system/kernel and the hardware that rely on the continued > > availability of the BLOBs become dependent on the BLOBs producers. Those > > are groups which may or may not continue to have interests and motivations > > which overlap yours. If your hardware or system needs a BLOB to run, then > > the BLOB-maker has you on a leash. > > > > Endorsing BLOBs puts *all* hardware, systems, and security at risk through > > active effort, which is reprehensible. To have one system accepting them, > > makes it all that much harder to keep them off. Think digital scab. > > > > Tolerating BLOBs or failing to eliminate BLOBs, are simply balless passive > > means of putting the above at risk. To put it another way, it's possible > > to gain control (political, economical, technical) of systems that get > > locked into BLOBs either passively or actively and encroachment into one > > system/distro can be used to marginalize the others. > > I lurk on this list and occasionally kibbitz. > Various effects make OpenBSD a very efficient leading indicator. > It works essentially thus. If the hardware gives OpenBSD trouble, it will > tend to give everybody else trouble sooner or later. > OpenBSD just finds out earlier. The same is with software. Compiling and running on OpenBSD seems to be one method of finding bugs in programs along with electric fence etc. CL<
Re: OpenBSD speed on desktops
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 07:23:43AM -0700, Darrin Chandler wrote: > On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 01:53:00PM +0100, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > It's therefore not the responsibility of the programmer to check whether the > > result of optimization is correct. Therefore it's not the optimizations that > > are source of bugs, but bugs in GCC. > > But if you write a program and the user finds it full of bugs, are they > going to care that you can say that it's GCC's fault? The burden falls > on the developers to make code that works, including working around > problems in the compiler. Sad, but true. We can analogically use this argument for ocassional errors in memory, too. If I write a program and the user finds it crashing all the time, are they going to care that you can say that their hardware may be unstable? OpenBSD then should be written with Hamming, Golay, or Reed-Solomon codes in all the internal structures, to automatically recover from flipped bits in data structures. Similar protection should be done to the code. The code should be periodically CRC-ed and the process image snapshotted. If it were revealed the code is corrupted, a rollback would be done and the process restarted. CL< > > -- > Darrin Chandler | Phoenix BSD Users Group > [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/ > http://www.stilyagin.com/darrin/ |
Re: OpenBSD speed on desktops
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 09:15:16AM -0400, Jason Beaudoin wrote: > > > > > > >> Everything is much slower than existing Linux system. For example, > >> Firefox takes 3-5 seconds to start on Linux but ~10 seconds on > >> OpenBSD on same machine! > > > >I have the same problem. The FFS doesn't seem to be as fast as ext2. > > > The issue is not filesystem speed, but rather prelinking and the differences > in how libraries are loaded. Trying comparing transfer times for a given set > of (differing) files on both filesystems.. I have also a feeling that deleting huge files or large directories with loads of tiny files in subdirectories is slower. CL< > > > Regards, > > ~J
Re: OpenBSD speed on desktops
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 09:26:56AM -0400, Nick ! wrote: > On 3/19/07, Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >On Sat, Feb 17, 2007 at 10:06:43PM +0100, Joachim Schipper wrote: > >> > >> Aggressive compiler optimizations are not generally a good idea. The > >> developers believe they are an unnecessary source of bugs, and since > > > >I would like to point out here that the idea of optimization is that an > >equivalent code that executes faster is produced. Optimizations don't > >permit generating code that is not equivalent, unless specifically stated > >in the flag description (-ffast-math). > > > >It's therefore not the responsibility of the programmer to check whether > >the > >result of optimization is correct. Therefore it's not the optimizations > >that > >are source of bugs, but bugs in GCC. > > But the practical fact is that GCC has these bugs and so optimizations > are an unnecessary source of bugs. But the proper way to handle these bugs is not work around them, but report them to the GCC developer so they can fix it. Otherwise we'll never get rid of them. CL< > > -Nick
Re: OpenBSD speed on desktops
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 07:23:43AM -0700, Darrin Chandler wrote: > On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 01:53:00PM +0100, Karel Kulhavy wrote: > > It's therefore not the responsibility of the programmer to check whether the > > result of optimization is correct. Therefore it's not the optimizations that > > are source of bugs, but bugs in GCC. > > But if you write a program and the user finds it full of bugs, are they > going to care that you can say that it's GCC's fault? The burden falls When I write a program then I specify the language - say ISO/IEC 9899:1999. If the compiler is buggy then it doesn't conform to ISO/IEC 9899:1999 - the compiled program behaviour breaches the ISO/IEC 9899:1999 spec. Then it's the user's problem that he compiled with a compiler that doesn't meet requirements I clearly stated. CL< > on the developers to make code that works, including working around > problems in the compiler. Sad, but true. > > -- > Darrin Chandler | Phoenix BSD Users Group > [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://bsd.phoenix.az.us/ > http://www.stilyagin.com/darrin/ |
Re: No Blob without Puffy
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 12:06:31AM +0100, SW wrote: I have a feeling that the campaign means "We don't want vendors to require us to use a blob but we'll ocassionally use them when we have to other way", while Theo means "I don't want vendors to require us to use a blob and I refuse to use them even when no other way". And that the heated words stem from the subtle difference. Politics instead of developing. It's the vendors who decide about the blobs and they may or may not take your complaints into account. Your invested time may or may not return. If you don't like the blobs, here are the tools to get rid of them: http://geda.seul.org/tools/gschem/index.html http://geda.seul.org/tools/pcb/index.html http://datasheetarchive.com/ http://www.ribbonsoft.com/qcad.html http://www.brlcad.org/ There's not really much difference between writing software or writing hardware, it's merely a psychological barrier, software hackers are scared of tampering with hardware because they are not used to. The costs of prototypes are negligible compared to the cost of time involved - and this time is high both in software and hardware hacking. With these tools, your invested time will return for sure. CL< > Hi, > > this is the conversation I had with Theo: > > 1. mail, 12.03.2007 01:29 > > Dear Theo, > > allBSD is currently prepairing for the Stop Blob! campaign > an we have a poster ready here: > > http://www.allbsd.de/src/Kampagnen/StopBlob/StopBlob-en-Poster.pdf > > This is already translated into some languages, more are to come > soon and I'm currently writing a flyer that will be translated > too in as many languages as possible. > > Any objections/ideas? > > Best regadrs, > > Daniel > > > 2. mail from Theo, 12.03.2007 02:34: > > I don't know why you are using a BSD daemon, when the two BSD's > that use Daemon imagery are the ones that ACCEPT blobs, in particular, > Sam Leffler's atheros driver. > > So I absolutely do not see how you think you can go stealing our > campaign for your own use! > > WE are the only people of the ones that you claim to represent > who are actually standing up for this issue. If you put those other > project's names on there, that's unbelieveably disrespectful of > our efforts. > > FreeBSD *specifically* has vendor drivers in it, and has developers > who work at vendors. Not just Sam, but they also have an employee > of NVidia who they consider a developer, and who now makes changes > to the ethernet driver everyone got from us, without even replying > to mails from our developers who wrote it! > > No. I entirely object to what you are doing here. You are trying > to make it look like those other projects are anti-blob, when they > are NOT. > > > 3. mail from Theo, 12.03.2007 03:00: > > Did you even think about the fact that there are only two operating > systems that ship without blobs? > > OpenBSD > > Debian (and derived systems) > > FreeBSD and NetBSD are not on the list of blob-less operating systems. > Both of them ship with at least one blob, compiled directly into the > kernel. Their developers have NEVER helped us fight for > documentation, or fight the blob. They've made a couple vague words > sometimes, but then gone back to their American ways and talked about > the need to sometimes compromise. They have UNDERMINED our efforts to > fight the blob, and now you want to include them in a poster about it? > > I think you are not thinking your campaign through very well at all. > > > 4. mail from me to Theo, 13.03.2007 01:16: > > Theo de Raadt qrote: > > > I don't know why you are using a BSD daemon, when the two BSD's > > > that use Daemon imagery are the ones that ACCEPT blobs, in particular, > > > Sam Leffler's atheros driver. > > > > > > So I absolutely do not see how you think you can go stealing our > > > campaign for your own use! > > > > > > WE are the only people of the ones that you claim to represent > > > who are actually standing up for this issue. If you put those other > > > project's names on there, that's unbelieveably disrespectful of > > > our efforts. > > > > > > FreeBSD *specifically* has vendor drivers in it, and has developers > > > who work at vendors. Not just Sam, but they also have an employee > > > of NVidia who they consider a developer, and who now makes changes > > > to the ethernet driver everyone got from us, without even replying > > > to mails from our developers who wrote it! > > > > > > No. I entirely object to what you are doing here. You are trying > > > to make it look like those other projects are anti-blob, when they > > > are NOT. > > > Hi Theo, > > in short: This campaign was startet after a long discussion internally > and we couldn't find ANY BSD-guy from whatever BSD that claimed Blobs > or NDAs are a good idea. > > We have a large number of individuals using and contributing to all > BSDs and this is not a campaign pointing fingers to certain people > using Blobs. > > This
Re: No Blob without Puffy
On Mon, Mar 19, 2007 at 11:35:14AM +0100, Henning Brauer wrote: > * SW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-03-19 03:21]: > > Free as in FreeBSD > > ahh, I finally get it. > > dry like water > hot like ice > free like freebsd FreeBSD is released under BSD licence and therefore is free software, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software CL< > > -- > Henning Brauer, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] > BS Web Services, http://bsws.de > Full-Service ISP - Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services > Dedicated Servers, Rootservers, Application Hosting - Hamburg & Amsterdam
Re: FreeBSD Announces Intel Approval for Redistribution of Wireless Firmware
On Thu, Mar 08, 2007 at 10:43:27AM +0100, Alexander Farber wrote: > FYI (sorry if this already been mentioned here): > http://www.prweb.com/releases/2007/03/prweb509818.htm > > "In order to use the firmware provided by Intel, FreeBSD users must > first agree with the license. FreeBSD developers have added a simple > mechanism to the operating system to agree to the license by defining > an easy-to-use system variable." On the other hand, OpenBSD developers have added a simple mechanism to the operating system to disagree to the license by defining a To: e-mail address in their Mail User Agent: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ man ipw | grep @intel state your views to about this issue is [EMAIL PROTECTED] at ;-) CL< > > ;-) > > Regards > Alex > > -- > http://preferans.de
Re: OpenBSD speed on desktops
On Sat, Feb 17, 2007 at 10:23:28PM +0100, Vim Visual wrote: > >Agreed. It's not the lawsuit that makes people use Linux instead of the > >BSD's; it's the holier-than-thou, > >fuck-'em-if-they-dare-question-our-judgement attitude. > > > >Jeff > > indeed... > > actually, I was curious to see what answers fumione would get > > Mine is: I have been using GNU/Linux for years and I have also noticed > that o'bsd is a _bit_ slower on the desktop, sometimes. But no that > slower. > > In any case, I'd recommend you that you try to think in a different > way. Don't try to make OpenBSD be like your linux, because it isn't > (it's much better ;) ) Look for other possibilities. > > For instance: Have you tried to go back to mozilla? In my case firefox > was behaving very buggy and consuming too much cpu. It's supposed to > be a light-weight version of mozilla but I find that mozilla itself is > much faster than firefox and doesn't consume almost anything (and the > fonts are looking better too) It goes like this for me: I want to google something, start up Firefox, then realize it will take long. So while Firefox is loading I start Links, type www.google.com, type the query, read the answer, close Links. Then Firefox pops up and I just kill it. Seriously. I can recommend using Links for general browsing and firing up Firefox only when Javascript or CSS is needed, if you are concerned about Firefox execution speed. Extra benefit: Links has an image autoscale feature which is perfect for viewing online pictures. You can also calibrate Links for your monitor gamma, aspect ratio and LCD optimization, and Links has a fast bilinear rescaler, so the result are much better pictures than Firefox. CL< > > Let us (at least me) know > > Cheers, > > Pau
Re: Sony laptop sound problems with auich0 and openbsd 3.9, 4.0, 4.1-beta.
On Sun, Feb 18, 2007 at 10:34:52PM -0800, zion wrote: > Hello list, > > Having serious problems with Sony PCG-V505EX laptop. > Basically, sound doesn't work unless there is some activity (traffic) on > fxp0 or iwi0 interfaces. Even if there is some traffic, sound grinds to > a halt after few seconds. It doesn't matter what source sound is coming > from: cd, dvd, mp3, ogg. > > First thing that comes to my mind is IRQ issue. there are 5 devices > using the same irq 9 by looking at dmesg. BIOS settings are really > limited on this laptop. > > Same exact problem occurs when using 3.9 4.0 releases, with of course > GENERIC kernel. > > Any help is greatly appreciated. I have problem with auich0 on Dell Inspiron 510m with Pentium III that time to time the audio deadlocks in the kernel and I have to reboot. Only the audio deadlocks, the rest of system functionality is still present. Killing the app doesn't help. CL<
Re: firefox compiling dependence
On Sun, Feb 25, 2007 at 12:38:02AM +0800, ronald jiang wrote: > I want to compiling firefox in obsd4.0. > I've installed obsd fully. > What else do I need to compile firefox? If you want to compile and not install from binary, read about the ports on openbsd.org faq page I think it's section 5. Be careful to install the proper version of ports. Then, you should be able to compile with a simple command that's explained there. CL< > Thanks.
Re: OT? Is this bad news?
On Wed, Feb 14, 2007 at 07:31:14PM +0200, Marius ROMAN wrote: > Programming documentation is restricted also because the hardware is > full of bugs and like Theo said there is no errata for a lot of > hardware. On the other hand, some vendors go as far as releasing even the schematics and gerbers for their hardware: http://wiki.emqbit.com/free-ecb-at91 CL<
Re: OpenBSD speed on desktops
On Sat, Feb 17, 2007 at 10:06:43PM +0100, Joachim Schipper wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 17, 2007 at 12:36:00PM -0500, R. Fumione wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am using OpenBSD on server since few years now, and I am very happy
> > with it's easy maintenance and it's stability. I want to try on
> > desktop, and I am having trouble.
> >
> > Everything is much slower than existing Linux system. For example,
> > Firefox takes 3-5 seconds to start on Linux but ~10 seconds on
> > OpenBSD on same machine!
> >
> > I tried compiler optimizations but those didn't help. Any suggestions?
> > Please cc replies to me also as I am not on misc. Thanks.
> >
> > Fumione
> >
> > (Note: please do not tell me change to lighter window manager. I
> > would like to use same environment or stay with Linux. Thanks.)
>
> I believe the standard response to any comparison "use Linux if you're
> happy with it". Since you've already received that, here is an attempt
> to do the question a little more justice. (However, it boils down to 'it
> doesn't matter if FF loads a little slower, as long as it runs equally
> fast').
>
> Most modern Linux distributions optimize dynamic library load using
> prelinking; 4.0 and later have a comparable idea implemented
> ('prebind'), but in a way that does not interfere with OpenBSD's
> security features. This is not enabled by default (I'm not sure why not,
> and would be very grateful if anybody would tell me, BTW), but can be
> enabled using `ldconfig -P /usr/bin /usr/sbin /usr/local/bin
> /usr/local/sbin /usr/X11R6/bin'. This should result in a noticeable
> speed increase, especially on programs with lots of loaded libraries -
> and look in /usr/local/mozilla-firefox to see that FF does have 'lots of
> loaded libraries'!
> Of course, it would be a good idea to know why it's not the default
> first. Also note that, if I remember correctly, prebind won't help if
> you use a nonstandard LD_LIBRARY_PATH, as FF does... so the command
> listed before is likely to work for just about every *other* program.
>
> Another aspect is that Linux is much more aggressive in caching data
> from disk; if the amount of data read, the amount of work done in
> between, and the amount of RAM is such that Linux can get most data from
> its memory cache while OpenBSD has to read most of it from disk, Linux
> will be a *lot* faster. Of course, you would only see this effect if you
> started Firefox twice without doing much in between.
>
> Both of those could explain why FF loads slower. If either of those is
> the big culprit, though, FF should run just as fast (slow) as it ever
> did, and since you're not likely to start it that often, I'd be inclined
> to say it isn't that big an issue.
>
> If a comparable slowdown is found in running FF, that would be a
> problem. There are many variables there, of course... a dmesg might be
> helpful, for instance.
>
> Aggressive compiler optimizations are not generally a good idea. The
> developers believe they are an unnecessary source of bugs, and since
I would like to point out here that the idea of optimization is that an
equivalent code that executes faster is produced. Optimizations don't
permit generating code that is not equivalent, unless specifically stated
in the flag description (-ffast-math).
It's therefore not the responsibility of the programmer to check whether the
result of optimization is correct. Therefore it's not the optimizations that
are source of bugs, but bugs in GCC.
CL<
> many optimizations are not enabled by default, there is not quite as
> much opportunity to find bugs in them. Plus, no amount of fiddling is
> likely to double speed.
>
> Since you didn't mention what you are using at the moment, I can't very
> well tell you to switch to a lighter window manager, can I? Ion *is*
> nice, though... ;-)
>
> Joachim
Re: OpenBSD speed on desktops
On Sat, Feb 17, 2007 at 12:36:00PM -0500, R. Fumione wrote: > Hello, > > I am using OpenBSD on server since few years now, and I am very happy > with it's easy maintenance and it's stability. I want to try on > desktop, and I am having trouble. > > Everything is much slower than existing Linux system. For example, > Firefox takes 3-5 seconds to start on Linux but ~10 seconds on > OpenBSD on same machine! I have the same problem. The FFS doesn't seem to be as fast as ext2. CL<
Re: Important OpenBSD errata
On Sat, Mar 17, 2007 at 11:43:47AM +1100, fonkprop wrote: > Yet again, we see that although Theo is willing to beg, wheedle and threaten > his user community into sending him money when he needs it, he holds them in > too much contempt to respond to simple, uncontroversial and valid criticism. > > > On 3/16/07, Theo de Raadt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Let's see... the fsck_ffs fix pedro commited a few hours ago. That > > fixes a serious problem where fsck fails to spot filesystem > > corruption. Should we spend time fully assessing how rare or common > > this situation is, and then errata it up the stream as fast as > > possible, maybe even consider if there are security risks from such > > filesystem corruption? Come on. > > > What a bullshit argument. When you realised the problem was serious enough > to update the homepage to say "only two remote holes..." you should also > have sent out an email to security-announce. You had time to send an > announcement to misc - not sending one to the list your project specifically > created for just this type of situation means, quite simply, that you fucked > up. You fucked up, Theo. Do it right next time, or de-commission the > security-announce mailing list for once and for all. The fact that you can't > get a simple thing like this right really makes me wonder about the wisdom > of relying on OpenBSD for real-world use... > > The minute someone moans for a posting to the security-announce list > > they have removed any desire from me to do so. And the same comes for > > any other errata. > > > What a completely fucking stupid, border-line insane thing to say. Let's get > this straight - your project sets up a security announcement list > specifically for announcements on vulnerabilities and patches. You then > proceed to ignore it completely for one of the most serious OpenBSD security > problems in the last decade. But no-one is allowed to actually say anything > about this because if they do you'll not use it JUST TO SPITE US. You, sir, > are a childish, immature cock. > > > > If people on our mailing list are going to be such jerks about patches > > which we do make available, then maybe we'll spend a whole lot less > > effort making errata and updating -stable. The whole concept of being > > subserviant towards a community of jerks is not realistitic. > > > You know, Theo, it makes me fucking sick to see you treat the community of > people who support your project and pay your wage like this. It makes me > even sicker to see the crowds of shrill, stupid fanboys on this list who are > so pathetically eager to agree with you that that they support even your > most unreasonable, childish and frankly stupid statements. You are a goddam > hypocrite - either you do OpenBSD purely for yourself and the other I don't think Theo is a hypocrite he makes otherwise a highly consistent behaviour impression on me. To me it looks like a slippage caused by an external factor. There's a problem and it has to be found and fixed. Theo, how much time do you sleep in average per night? Aren't you overworked? Don't you have some kind of family problem (relationship, death, serious disease)? Don't you you get too little money in donations and feel stressed by it? Or some other kind of cockup in your life? We need to understand that OpenBSD is a unique operating system - it's free, very complicated, AND and proper care is taken in design and programming. That must be very demanding on the developers. CL< > developers (in which case I will stop financially supporting the project, > and everyone else should too) or you recognise that what really keeps > OpenBSD going is the group of people that advocate OpenBSD, use it in the > real world, and buy your goddamn CDs and t-shirts to keep you going... The > idiots on misc that support you when you treat your users this badly aren't > the real friends of OpenBSD.
Re: Slightly OT: i386 Sound Card Recommendation
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 04:26:27PM -0400, JT Croteau wrote: > This may seem like a simple question but it has been a long time since > I've done any multimedia work on a *nix platform and never on OpenBSD. > I need to add a sound card to my OpenBSD desktop box for basic audio > playback from .mp3's and cd's and to do some basic recording. What > would be a good PCI based card to go with? I am currently leaning > towards a SoundBlaster 128 or 512. I have auich and AC97 SigmaTel STAC9750/51 and it deadlocks time to time. I would recommend avoiding this one. I just don't know if it's the AC97 or the chip it's connected to. CL<
Quickly fix the latest IPv6 vulnerability
For the people who don't have time to learn about compiling at the moment...
Not tested though, sorry.
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 01:38:19PM +0100, Paul de Weerd wrote:
>
> sudo -s
> cd /usr
> export [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvs
> export VERS=OPENBSD_`uname -r | tr '.' '_'`
> cvs checkout -P -r${VERS} src
> cd src/sys/arch/`uname -m`/conf
> config GENERIC
> cd ../compile/GENERIC
> make clean
> make depend
> make
> make install
> reboot
CL<
Re: OpenBSD-Entwickler wollten kritische Lu:cke kleinreden
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 05:56:03PM +0800, Lars Hansson wrote: > On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 10:08:02 +0100 > Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > http://www.heise.de/security/news/meldung/86730 > > And for the majority of the worlds population that doesn't speak German > this says exactly what? OpenBSD developers tried to play down a critical security hole. CL< > > -- > Lars Hansson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Important OpenBSD errata
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 01:49:52AM -0500, Travers Buda wrote: > * tony sarendal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-03-16 06:03:49]: > > > http://www.openbsd.org/mail.html > > --- > > *security-announce* Security announcements. This low volume list receives > > OpenBSD security advisories and pointers to security patches as they become > > available.---Martin and Karl have valid points in their initial emails. > > > > /Tony S > > > > It's important to put yourself in Theo et al.'s shoes. Here's a > group of people who write code for free, and then give it away for > free. There's no serious cash inflow to enable them to do everything How do you know it's not serious? Does Theo publish the amounts anywhere? > they want. The code can be used by anybody for whatever purpose, > like: making money! And does that money ever find it's way back > to OpenBSD? I'm talking about big corporations here. OpenSSH is > in _everything_. It's only natural that OpenBSD should feel a sense > of ingratitude... because there is ingratitude. To add insult to > injury, people ask for more than what is freely offered. Example: > this thread. > > If you want to see X feature, hire one of the developers. > If you want to keep getting releases, pay Theo's hydroponics.. err That's a valid point if Theo took a joint, the negative emotions from his reactions might disapper. Holds not only for Theo. I am having a feeling that Theo is like a panhandler that plays a good music in a subway and when you throw him 1$ and notice his fly is down. He snaps and starts yelling at you that you should pay at least 10$ because his music is really good (which it actually is) and that his zipper is down because he's overworked. Instead of putting his zipper up. Jeez, Theo is a world OS programmer, I am sure his OS design skills are unequalled by most others, judging by the quality of the result. Why should he degrade himself into a role of a hysteric panhandler? I would suggest to implement some strategy to increase the cash flow. If it doesn't help, then going into the strict mode. Develop something, collect the donations and release only after you get covered. I think people will quickly get used to the fact that it's easier to pay a laughably small donation and then get a quality intellectual property into your ownership than pay a ridiculously high rent to a proprietary company and get a dubious quality product for it. CL< > electric bill. etc etc > > -- > Travers Buda
Re: Important OpenBSD errata
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 05:53:10AM +, Karl O. Pinc wrote: > On 03/15/2007 11:55:44 PM, Kian Mohageri wrote: > > >Security isn't about receiving notifications to your Inbox in a timely > >fashion. It is about being proactive yourself. You should be the one > >taking measures to secure your systems, and you should be the one > >ACTIVELY > >LOOKING for problems. Watching mailing lists isn't enough, and this > >was > >announced very early on the ERRATA page. > > Perhaps my problem is that until this thread it wasn't > clear to me that the errata page was inherently more > reliable than the mailing list. From a technical > perspective I see no reason why either can't be equally > reliable. How am I to know? There are so many points to refer to regarding security - Errata page, misc mailing list, security-announce, Slashdot. It's easy to get confused. The ergonomy of work is decreased. Decrease the ergonomy of work and your accident rate goes up. That means, more people failing to upgrade their system containing with security problem. CL<
Re: Important OpenBSD errata
On Thu, Mar 15, 2007 at 11:49:19PM -0600, Jacob Yocom-Piatt wrote: > Karl O. Pinc wrote: > > On 03/15/2007 11:29:22 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > > >> I looked for your name on the donations list. I don't see it. > > > > I only buy CDs and stuff occasionally, and generally > > invest time in what I hope are productive ways. > > > > like bitching about stuff that you, as a "security professional", should > already know? how notably productive! > > if you can't look smart because you weren't looking the right spot for > this information, then perhaps your customers really should reconsider > how smart they thought you were. offhand i remember having had a It would be better if OpenBSD could be maintained secure even without a skilled security professional. Today's trend is that things are accomodated to ordinary people. You don't need a driver anymore to professionally drive your car. You don't need to understand how the engine works anymore to operate the car properly. You don't need to understand megahertz anymore to tune your TV set. This trend is because we are having more and more technology in our life and learning about internal structure of all the appliances is not possible anymore. This trend can be implemented in free design products too. Let me use my Ronja project as an example once more. It contains sensitive low-noise broadband amplifiers and an fiber optic transceiver implemented as many chips scattered around the board. It's supposed to be built in a garage. Hundreds of points asking for a failure. But it was possible to remove the necessity to need a professional equipment and training. Strict quality control procedures done by the users using visual inspection, increase in ergonomy of the assembly procedures and preventive electrical measurements eliminate these failures which can be found only using an expensive oscilloscope. So with extra effort put into the instruction manuals, it's now possible that an unskilled person builds it using only a cheap multimeter. Similarly, by putting extra effort into the OpenBSD operating instructions and notification mechanisms, it should be possible to enable even an inexperienced user to properly recognize a security problem and respond to it in a correct and timely manner. CL< > favorable impression of your skills from your previous posts and this > hissy fit doesn't make you look any smarter. if i hired you as a > consultant, looked you up on google and saw this little thread, i'd > really think twice about listening to you next time. unless you're > posting under a pseudonym you may have turned "stubbing your toe" into a > full blown "shot yourself in the foot". > > > How much do I need to donate to keep from having to > > waste my time in unproductive threads like this? > > > > how much do i need to donate to stop other whiners from starting threads > like this? if you're a security consultant in a 1st world country whose > job depends on openbsd and you haven't donated any significant amount, > you're one greedy SOB. > > > Seriously. > > > > Karl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." > > -- Robert A. Heinlein
Re: Important OpenBSD errata
--> Bram, your gtodo is mentioned. On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 01:40:57AM -0400, Daniel Ouellet wrote: > Karl O. Pinc wrote: > >On 03/15/2007 11:29:22 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > > >>I looked for your name on the donations list. I don't see it. > > > >I only buy CDs and stuff occasionally, and generally > >invest time in what I hope are productive ways. > > And what are the developers doing with their time? They give it to you > and you have the got to complain on top of it! So, they should waist The users work as an army of testers and if something doesn't work, they report in in a form of complaint. That saves Theo the bug money needed to pay an army of beta testers like game companies do. On my Ronja project, complaints serve a good service. I get a complaint, extract useful information what needs to be fixed/improved, put it on my prioritized TODO list (http://www.stack.nl/~brama/projects/todo/) and forget about the complaint. The less experience user, the higher quality complaints he generates. More advanced users cannot spot some bugs in instruction manuals because their experienced brain automatically fills in. The least experienced generate good feedback even regarding the website structure, usability and ergonomy. The worst people are the too lazy to complain ones who manage to build a whole Ronja even while encountering 10 bugs and 20 ambiguities on the way and then they risk strange unreliabilities in their device. Sometimes bugs persist in the instruction manuals for long time because of these people. I can only recommend the mentioned gtodo program that's what makes difference for me between reacting neurotically to complaints and taking them easy. CL<
Re: Important OpenBSD errata
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 04:31:32AM +, Karl O. Pinc wrote: > On 03/15/2007 10:48:49 PM, Ray Percival wrote: > >On Mar 15, 2007, at 7:31 PM, Karl O. Pinc wrote: > > >>I rely on having a clear channel for security related > >>problems. > > >The only communication problem here is that you don't look > >at the information that the project puts out there for you. > > The project says it will announce security errata > on the security-announce list. I _am_ assuming this > will be done in a timely fashion... This does not > seem like an unreasonable assumption. It has to be timely otherwise some blackhat could craft a working exploit Internet worm and get an army of zombies for his unpopular activities. OpenBSD could get a negative media attention from this and people would have to wipe their systems and perform a clean install. Huge losses. That's something people generally don't want. The best would be if the administrator were prompted in that case regardless if he reads Slashdot, any mailing lists, bugtraq etc. CL<
Re: Important OpenBSD errata
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 04:23:00AM +, Karl O. Pinc wrote: > No, but if security errata announcements arn't delivered > in a fashion that delivers them to a human then they > do no good. I should not be expected to peruse the > misc@openbsd.org list to find errata announcements. > OpenBSD says announcements will be made on security-announce > when patches become available. This did not happen. > Ergo, something is broken. I can't fix it. It may What about Charlie Root testing something remotely through cron and then send a reminder: "A hole was found in OpenBSD, please follow instructions at http://www.openbsd.org/blahblah.html to fix it." That could be easy to implement, could use authentization to prevent spoof panic attacks, and would make sure even people who don't read mailing lists plug their holes in a timely fashion. CL<
Re: Important OpenBSD errata
On Thu, Mar 15, 2007 at 10:29:22PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." > > -- Robert A. Heinlein > > I was trying to decide if I should reply, and if so, how. > > I looked for your name on the donations list. I don't see it. Out of curiosity, when I bought several t-shirts at the kd85 shop in Belgium, does actually a part of it go to the donations list and do I pop there up with few dollars? I also suggest that the list include the cumulative amount for each donor, sorted so that the biggest donors are at the top. Personally, it would motivate me more. I would have a feeling of control what's actually done with my money. If Theo somehow published some breakdown of the spending, even better. If he actually assigned my donation to a concrete thing (i. e. Packet filter development,...), that would be even better. I would also have a motivation to compete for the topmost positions, with sending money as my weapon :) I could boast to my friends look I paid xxx of OpenBSD and I am the xth biggest donor and the packet filter you are using is actually paid from that. People are not computers, they decide based on emotions, and if you tune the psychological aspect of the thing you can induce better emotions without actually compromising your ideology. If other people think the same way like me, then Theo would start getting more donations if he changed to that system. Sometimes I wonder how much money goes to paying Theo's time, how much into paying other people like artists, how much into buying hardware, and if something of that isn't actually financed in an inefficient way. If I saw the real numbers, these concerns would probably vanish. CL< > > But your quote makes it clear. > > I don't know what to say. I am trying to get past the first > impression of you being a whining liar who quotes some fiction author. > > Give it up. He uses our software, and he's not worth the discussion.
Re: No Blob without Puffy
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 12:38:05PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > Is it true that Puffy is not here because of Theo's concerns about > > his copyrighted Puffy logo? > > http://misc.allbsd.de/Kampagnen/NoBlob/NoBlob-en-Poster.jpg > > No. That is false. Whoever told you that lied to you. That was written in this post on a Swiss IT news portal: http://www.symlink.ch/comments.pl?sid=07/03/15/1557213&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=9 If you don't understand German, I can try to translate (I don't understand wel): "Oh, that's even better. allbsd.de has started a "Stop Blob" campaign. While the other BSD's can identify themselves with it, Theo thought that they would put his intellectual property to danger, steal ideas and use the Puffy fish illegitimately on the poster. (The e-mail went on the allbsd-misc mailing list but I can't find an archive link at the moment.) The campaign is now called NoBlob http://misc.allbsd.de/Kampagnen/NoBlob/ " > > > I also couldn't use Puffy logo on Ronja because then I wouldn't be able to > > talk > > about OpenBSD negatively if it came out there is some serious problem with > > Ronja and OpenBSD together. > > There is a serious problem with what allbsd is doing. They first > approached me on the 13th with a campaign using our "Stop the Blob" > slogan. That is something OpenBSD takes very seriously, yet at the > bottom of the poster you can see a list of operating systems which > specifically use a Blob, and actually those projects work against us > when we take on vendors pushing Blobs. > > Of course the first Blob to mention is the Atheros driver in all > those operating systems. I wanted to use Intel PRO/Wireless 2100 in my laptop to connect to wireless network in my work. I found out from the manpage it requires nonfree firmware files (is this a blob?). Instead of downloading them, I dropped an e-mail to the address mentioned in the manpage saying like they can stick their blob up their ass. I can use a wire connectivity for most of the time. Should I need a wireless connections, there are other methods than IPW 2100. I think it's just right to categorically refuse blobs even when the users cannot use their hardware. They should avoid hardware crippleware. My fault that I didn't. > > But more and more of these Blob's are making it into FreeBSD all the > time. The Nvidia driver (though now they are using our nvidia driver, I just wonder what happens if every commercial manufacturer starts requiring a blob? Will OpenBSD stop existing? Or will you adapt a pro-blob policy? Or will someone pop up and design a free hardware design for that product category? > and they have a nvidia employee on their team who commits things to > that driver without talking to anyone). And the same thing is > happening to lots of other drivers in FreeBSD. FreeBSD apparently has > a signed agreement with Nvidia over the accelerated video driver, and So you have absolutely no signed NDA agreements? > I guess that creates a reluctance amongst them to fight Nvidia with us > for ethernet drivers. The same has happened with other things like > Adaptec RAID. FreeBSD developers actively side with the vendors when > we demand documentation. > > So isn't it rather hypocritical to have a anti-Blob campaign, backed > by projects which embrace the Blob? > > After being shown the first version of the art (showing our slogan, > and all the BSD's down below), I told allbsd that > (1) they cannot misuse our slogan like that > (2) I felt their whole campaign was hypocritical > > Daniel Seuffert got very angry, and instead of removing operating > systems which are pro-Blob from an anti-Blob posted, they instead > deleted us. > > Isn't that just incredible? It's just an ordinary political practice. Talks about morality and truth are used in a straightforward manner to get better sales without a regard to actual consistency or correcntess. > > > I think Theo should stop being paranoid about his Puffy. Puffy is not > > something > > you steal from a bowl and it disappears. I also have a Ronja logo which is > > under GFDL and noone is stealing it and damaging me. The same for the Linux > > Tux > > I have the feeling. > > You've got it wrong. Now it makes sense. The adoption rate of a product typically goes up with how crap it is. So your explanation is more plausible than theirs because FreeBSD has higher adoption. CL<
Re: No Blob without Puffy
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 02:06:50PM -0500, K K wrote: > It'd be great if Theo could make a clear statement on Puffy, the same > as Marshall Kirk McKusick has for the daemon. I had cause to use a > variant of Marshall's beastie for a project which was marginally > within his published guidelines, and had no problem getting > permission. > > > On 3/16/07, Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Is it true that Puffy is not here because of Theo's concerns about > >his copyrighted Puffy logo? > >http://misc.allbsd.de/Kampagnen/NoBlob/NoBlob-en-Poster.jpg > > Not only is puffy not there, the word "OpenBSD" is also absent, and > Theo has explained exactly what happened. It's not about the blowfish > at all. > > > >I also couldn't use Puffy logo on Ronja because then I wouldn't be able to > >talk > >about OpenBSD negatively if it came out there is some serious problem with > >Ronja and OpenBSD together. > > > >I think Theo should stop being paranoid about his Puffy. Puffy is not > >something > >you steal from a bowl and it disappears. I also have a Ronja logo which is > >under GFDL and noone is stealing it and damaging me. The same for the > >Linux Tux > >I have the feeling. > > Not quite how trademark law works, see http://preview.tinyurl.com/2crjgc The problem is that the Puffy is an artist work, governed by the copyright / author rights stuff. I asked Theo about still being able to criticize the project freely as I want, and he told me that I can't. What Theo says is consistent with what the website says: "However, it is our intent that anyone be able to use these images to represent OpenBSD in a positive light" http://openbsd.org/art1.html See? "Positive light". Theo explained he needs it to protect his project and that it's required by law that he acts so protective. To me this appears absurd, but Theo has the copyright and he can tell where Puffy can be used and where not. I have ordered a Puffy sticker to stick on my snowboard, that doesn't have any legal hitches, I'll post a picture when I put it there :) > > Specifically, it appears you could legally use Puffy on a Ronja logo It wasn't even on Ronja logo it was just in the list of software used. > "to indicate compatibility", and you could still feel free to "talk > about OpenBSD negatively", even under Canadian trademark law. Trademark is not a problem, the problem lies in the copyright. > > In the "No blob" case, the issue would be that using *any* OpenBSD > mark would "suggest sponsorship or endorsement", puffy or no puffy. > And Theo has made it clear how he feels about endorsing that specific > campaign. So it's not about Puffy copyright, but about Theo not likes the campaign? Well then it makes sense. CL< > > > Jack J. Woehr writes: > > Handling the deadly pufferfish is very dangerous, and best left to > > experts! > > The only legal imports to the US are pre-processed and flash frozen, > with all tetrodotoxin safely removed. > > Fugu is good food. > > > IANAL, YMMV
Links+
http://openbsd.org/faq/faq8.html The name of the browser that is at http://links.twibright.com is not Links+, but Links (or Twibright Links). It's not a different browser than the textmode Links. If you run recent Links without -g, you get the textmode links. There is an older version of Links which supports text mode only and is still maintained with ocassional patches, but it's still the same Links. Or if you take a recent Links and compile without --enable-graphics, you get a links executable that runs in text mode only. CL<
