Re: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

[Marko Cupać]

On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 21:07:59 -0700
Kurt H Maier  wrote:

> I don't know.  Some people just like talking about their computers to
> strangers, I guess.
> 

4-way native uefi boot of Windows, FreeBSD, OpenBSD and Linux, with
shared FAT32 partition:

pacija@efreet-freebsd:~ % sudo gpart show ada0
=>   34  468862061  ada0  GPT  (224G)
 34   2014- free -  (1.0M)
   2048 921600 1  ms-recovery  (450M)
 923648 204800 2  efi  (100M)
1128448  32768 3  ms-reserved  (16M)
1161216  125829120 4  ms-basic-data  (60G)
  126990336   33554432 5  freebsd-ufs  (16G)
  1605447688388608 6  freebsd-swap  (4.0G)
  168933376   41943040 7  openbsd-data  (20G)
  210876416   33554432 8  linux-data  (16G)
  2444308488388608 9  linux-swap  (4.0G)
  252819456  21604263910  ms-basic-data  (103G)

Works for me :)
-- 
Before enlightenment - chop wood, draw water.
After  enlightenment - chop wood, draw water.

Marko Cupać
https://www.mimar.rs/

Re: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

[Ax0n]

On dual-booting:

I have set up Windows/OpenBSD dual-boot quite a few times. Windows 7 and
Windows 10 instructions are all about the same, and the information in the
FAQ on multi-booting has enough info to get you started.
https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#Multibooting

First, always have good backups, but especially make sure anything
important is backed up and tested before you embark on dual-booting with
Windows. It works best with a fresh install of everything, though. Use the
Windows installer to partition the drive. I like to have three partitions:
1 for Windows, 1 for OpenBSD and one for sharing files between the two.
Install Windows on the first partition.

Carefully install OpenBSD on the second partition. If memory serves
correctly, I had to shell out of the installer, use fdisk to change the
partition type of the OpenBSD partition, then go back into the installer
and tell it to use that partition. BE REALLY CAREFUL using fdisk and
setting up your partitions. after install, follow the FAQ guidance on using
dd to copy the PBR. I mounted a USB stick from the install environment and
copied the PBR to that, then to Windows.

Back in Windows, if you didn't f*** it up with the OpenBSD installer,
follow the FAQ guidance on using BCDEdit, or perhaps, use the free (for
non-commercial use) BCDEdit to add OpenBSD to the Windows bootloader.
Reboot. Get into OpenBSD, if you followed the instructions correctly.
Install exfat-fuse from packages, and use the mkfs.exfat tool to format the
third partition for shared files. For whatever reason, Windows doesn't like
to format hard disk partitions as Exfat, but you can do it from OpenBSD
easily enough.

Did I mention you should back up your data? Even I have messed up a few
times. Fortunately, it was just a fresh Windows install that got clobbered
last time I botched it.

Good luck. I hope you come to enjoy OpenBSD as much as I do.

On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Baho Utot 
wrote:

> I am currently using FreeBSD 11.0 and win7.  I have looked over OpenBSD
> and I like what I am seeing. I have several machine to install it on an old
> laptop Dell Inspirion 1501 and newer AMD64 machines with 8 cores and 16GB
> ram.  I would also like to install into Raspberry pi versions 2 and 3.
>
> I have the following questions:
>
> 1.  Where can I get a list of graphics card that are supported?
>
> 2.  Where can I find information on dual booting OpenBSD
> and Windows?
>
> 3.  Does OpenBSD need to be on the primary disk drive or can
> it be installed on the second drive with windos on the
> first drive.
>
> 4.  Is the manul that is online, can it be obtained on a pdf?
>
> 5.  Where can I find information on wifi support?
>
> These are the important question I have for now.
>
> Thanks
>
>

Re: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

[Kurt H Maier]

On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 09:20:49PM -0400, Baho Utot wrote:
> > I dual boot now between Win7 and FreeBSD
> > on I lapdog I have 5 os on it and use grub2 to boot them
>
> How is this helpful?


I don't know.  Some people just like talking about their computers to
strangers, I guess.

khm

Re: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

[Baho Utot]

On 06/10/17 16:20, Mihai Popescu wrote:

I dual boot now between Win7 and FreeBSD
on I lapdog I have 5 os on it and use grub2 to boot them


Prepare in the upcoming messages for something like "OpenBSD destroyed
my harddisk" subject line message! Just a warning.



How is this helpful?

Re: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

[Ingo Schwarze]

Hi Erling,

Erling Westenvik wrote on Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 10:08:57PM +0200:

> Probably a stupid question but:
> Why isn't the -T switch documented in man(1)?

Not a stupid question at all.

First answer:
It is, look at man(1) and you will find this sentence:

  The options -IKOTW are also supported and are documented in mandoc(1).

Second answer:

The reason why it isn't in the SYNOPSIS, in the usage(), and in the
main options list is that jmc@ insisted that the man(1) manual page
better be short and simple, and advanced stuff that is more fully
documented in mandoc(1), and more often needed in mandoc(1), not
be duplicated there.  He kind of has a point.  The man(1) manual
is most important for beginners and should better not overwhelm
them.  Advanced users are likely to also find their way if finding
the advanced features requires carefully studying the *whole* text.


I designed the user interface of the OpenBSD versions of man(1),
apropos(1), whatis(1), and mandoc(1) such that all four support
exactly the same options, such that you only need to learn one set
of options, which is not true on other operating systems.  If you
like a bit of confusion now and then, take a look at:

  http://mdocml.bsd.lv/man/man.options.1.html

Yes, -AxY are the only three option letters not yet taken, and all
except -BGJjNOUXyZz have conflicting meanings; the record holders
are -c with nine different meanings, -p and -s with eight, -f and
-w with seven, and several with six different meanings.  Talk about
history -- as if nobody ever looked at what anybody else did...

On OpenBSD, if you like, you can access all functionality of the
four utilities with man(1):

  apropos == man -k
  whatis  == man -f
  mandoc  == man -cl

Also, our options are designed to naturally form four groups
and are firmly grounded in BSD history, with one exception
adopted from Colin Watson's Debian Linux man-db package:

 1. Search options decide which directories are used for searches:

 -M  override MANPATH ("manpath", 4.3BSD man, 1986)
 -m  augment MANPATH ("manpath", 4.3BSD-Reno man, 1990)
 -S  restrict architecture ("subsection", OpenBSD 2.3 man, 1998)
 -s  restrict manual section ("section", OpenBSD 2.3 man, 1998)

 2. Input options decide how command line arguments are interpreted:

 -k  use full search query syntax ("keywords", 4BSD man, 1980)
 (default for -k) search substrings in title lines only
 -f  complete words to be matched in names only ("find", 4BSD man, 1980)
 (default for man(1)) exact match of complete names
 -l  accept file names, ignore search options ("local", man-db 2.2a7, 1994)

 3. Parse options influence interpretation of the input files:

 -I  set default value for .Os macro ("input", OpenBSD 5.2 mandoc, 2012)
 -K  force an input character encoding ("enKoding", groff-1.20, 2005)
 -m  force an input macro language ("macro language", v7 troff, 1979)

 4. Output options decide how output is presented:

 -a  show all matching pages, formatted ("all", 4.3BSD-Tahoe man, 1988)
 (default for man(1)) show the first matching page, formatted
 -T  select an output format for formatting ("terminal", v7 nroff, 1979)
 -O  set output format specific options ("output", OpenBSD 4.8 mandoc, 2009)
 -c  do no use a pager ("copy to stdout", 4.3BSD-Reno man, 1990)
 -h  show the SYNOPSIS sections only ("head", 4.3BSD-Net/2 man, 1991)
 (default for -k and -h) show title lines only
 -w  show file names only ("where", v7 man, 1979)
 -W  select a message level ("warn", OpenBSD 4.8 mandoc, 2009)

 5. One special option can influence search, parse, and output options:

 -C  select alternate config file ("config", 4.4BSD-Lite1 apropos, 1994)

Unfortunately, this structure cannot easily be represented in
the manual pages without bloating them and making them less readable.

Several of the option letters could be more mnemonic.  But they
come from six different programs (troff, nroff, groff, man, apropos,
mandoc) and five different operating systems (Version 7 AT&T Unix,
4.xBSD, groff, Debian man-db, OpenBSD) and the oldest (-mTw) have
been established since 1979, so people have become so used to them
for several decades that it's much too late to change any of them.

Yours,
  Ingo

Re: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

[Matthew Fioravante]

On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 9:20 PM, Mihai Popescu  wrote:

> > I dual boot now between Win7 and FreeBSD
> > on I lapdog I have 5 os on it and use grub2 to boot them
>
> Prepare in the upcoming messages for something like "OpenBSD destroyed
> my harddisk" subject line message! Just a warning.
>
>
OpenBSD 6.1 release has a bug with nvme drives. The disk partitioning
program in the installer read my gpt partition incorrectly. Once I noticed
this I immediately rebooted my machine but it was too late. The partition
table was completely hosed. I suspect that after the incorrect read maybe
it thought my disk was corrupted or had no table and wrote a fresh one for
me automatically.

It actually sounds like a bug that the installer would write to your disk
if you bail out before taking any action. Even if thinks (correctly or
incorrectly) that your disk may have a corrupted partition table it should
do no writes until you actually commit to repartitioning the disk.

The nvme bug appears to be fixed in the latest OpenBSD development
snapshots.

Dual booting OpenBSD is rather easy on UEFI systems. I've got Windows 10,
FreeBSD 11, OpenBSD Current, and Arch Linux all on my laptop.

I would suggest partitioning the disk manually first using a gparted livecd
or similar. Create the partitions and set all of the correct partition
types for your OSes before hand.

I did this and then OpenBSD correctly identified my OpenBSD partition and
installed the OS on it. Has no problem booting with UEFI/GPT with all of my
other OSes present.

Backing up your disk (including your partition table) first would be
prudent of course.

Re: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

[Mihai Popescu]

> I dual boot now between Win7 and FreeBSD
> on I lapdog I have 5 os on it and use grub2 to boot them

Prepare in the upcoming messages for something like "OpenBSD destroyed
my harddisk" subject line message! Just a warning.

Re: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

[Baho Utot]

On 06/10/17 14:12, Ingo Schwarze wrote:

Hi,

Baho Utot wrote on Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 01:30:46PM -0400:


1.  Where can I get a list of graphics card that are supported?


  $ man -s 4 -k graphic drm radeon

On modern amd64, it is mostly intel(4) and radeon(4).
Stay away from NVidia unless you want to use vga(4).


2.  Where can I find information on dual booting OpenBSD
and Windows?


Don't do it.  Use separate hardware.  Dual booting is only
asking for trouble.  It's not impossible if you know what you
are doing, but even then, it's not worth it.  If you have to ask
how it works, just don't do it.



I dual boot now between Win7 and FreeBSD
on I lapdog I have 5 os on it and use grub2 to boot them



4.  Is the manul that is online, can it be obtained on a pdf?


  $ time man -M/usr/share/man -Tpdf -ak Nd~. > all.pdf
 1m03.33s real 0m52.16s user 0m03.22s system
  $ wc all.pdf
 165640334 587327767 3457322371 all.pdf

That's only the base system manual (without X11 = Xenocara).

Even though building it with mandoc(1) only takes a minute
on my notebook, i'm not sure it's a great idea to put all
that information into a single file.

It's a 15458 page, 3.5 Gigabyte PDF.

If you want to read specific sections, you can use more
specific commands, see apropos(1).

Or you can view individual typeset pages like this:

  $ doas pkg_add gv
  $ man -Tps pledge | gv -


5.  Where can I find information on wifi support?


  $ man -k wireless

  https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq6.html#Wireless

Yours,
   Ingo



Thanks

Re: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

[Peter N. M. Hansteen]

On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 08:12:31PM +0200, Ingo Schwarze wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Baho Utot wrote on Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 01:30:46PM -0400:
> 
> > 5.  Where can I find information on wifi support?
> 
>  $ man -k wireless
> 
>  https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq6.html#Wireless

Also, http://man.openbsd.org/ is very useful - go there, type
your keyword in the search field, click apropos and you get all
the man pages matching that keyword.

-- 
Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team
http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/
"Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic"
delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.

Re: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

[Ingo Schwarze]

Hi,

Baho Utot wrote on Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 01:30:46PM -0400:

> 1.Where can I get a list of graphics card that are supported?

 $ man -s 4 -k graphic drm radeon

On modern amd64, it is mostly intel(4) and radeon(4).
Stay away from NVidia unless you want to use vga(4).

> 2.Where can I find information on dual booting OpenBSD
>   and Windows?

Don't do it.  Use separate hardware.  Dual booting is only
asking for trouble.  It's not impossible if you know what you
are doing, but even then, it's not worth it.  If you have to ask
how it works, just don't do it.

> 4.Is the manul that is online, can it be obtained on a pdf?

 $ time man -M/usr/share/man -Tpdf -ak Nd~. > all.pdf
1m03.33s real 0m52.16s user 0m03.22s system
 $ wc all.pdf   
165640334 587327767 3457322371 all.pdf

That's only the base system manual (without X11 = Xenocara).

Even though building it with mandoc(1) only takes a minute
on my notebook, i'm not sure it's a great idea to put all
that information into a single file.

It's a 15458 page, 3.5 Gigabyte PDF.

If you want to read specific sections, you can use more
specific commands, see apropos(1).

Or you can view individual typeset pages like this:

 $ doas pkg_add gv
 $ man -Tps pledge | gv -

> 5.Where can I find information on wifi support?

 $ man -k wireless

 https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq6.html#Wireless

Yours,
  Ingo

Re: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

[techay]

You will find all of your answers on the FAQ, in regards to the PDF stuff well 
you can export man pages as PDF's.

https://www.openbsd.org/faq/

Good luck and enjoy OpenBSD

 Original Message 
Subject: Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD
Local Time: June 10, 2017 7:30 PM
UTC Time: June 10, 2017 5:30 PM
From: baho-u...@columbus.rr.com
To: misc@openbsd.org

I am currently using FreeBSD 11.0 and win7. I have looked over OpenBSD
and I like what I am seeing. I have several machine to install it on an
old laptop Dell Inspirion 1501 and newer AMD64 machines with 8 cores and
16GB ram. I would also like to install into Raspberry pi versions 2 and 3.

I have the following questions:

1. Where can I get a list of graphics card that are supported?

2. Where can I find information on dual booting OpenBSD
and Windows?

3. Does OpenBSD need to be on the primary disk drive or can
it be installed on the second drive with windos on the
first drive.

4. Is the manul that is online, can it be obtained on a pdf?

5. Where can I find information on wifi support?

These are the important question I have for now.

Thanks

Current FreeBSD looking to switch to OpenBSD

[Baho Utot]

I am currently using FreeBSD 11.0 and win7.  I have looked over OpenBSD 
and I like what I am seeing. I have several machine to install it on an 
old laptop Dell Inspirion 1501 and newer AMD64 machines with 8 cores and 
16GB ram.  I would also like to install into Raspberry pi versions 2 and 3.


I have the following questions:

1.  Where can I get a list of graphics card that are supported?

2.  Where can I find information on dual booting OpenBSD
and Windows?

3.  Does OpenBSD need to be on the primary disk drive or can
it be installed on the second drive with windos on the
first drive.

4.  Is the manul that is online, can it be obtained on a pdf?

5.  Where can I find information on wifi support?

These are the important question I have for now.

Thanks