Re: NFS keeps crashing
Invest in a NetApp filer and do it the right way. Plenty of options spectrascale glfs/cnfs lustre with DNE/IME why struggle with this hobby OS, seriously? On Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 1:31 AM MB wrote: > > Why are you using ooenbsd for anything but a firewall. Even then its > lagging way behind unless you deploying in a dentist office. Openbsd sucks > at pretty much everything else. Sorry I come from corporate real world > experience not Soho stuff. Use Linux. > > On Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 1:24 AM Rupert Gallagher > wrote: > >> This is what I observed on a controlled environment of three "windows 10 >> pro" 1709 clients. >> >> The obsd nfs server had a single share: >> >> /path/to/folder -network 192.168.1 -mask 255.255.255.0 >> >> When mounting a share for the first time, Windows allows browsing the >> network to find the resource. This is what happens: >> >> 1. The client asks for the list of nfs resources; >> 2. the server shows a stream of accepted mounts, no warnings, no errors; >> 3. while 2 happens, the client shows a warning that the server is not >> responding; >> 4. when eventually the client returns the list of nfs folders, the server >> crashes. >> >> The above occurs systematically. Restarting the server and repeating the >> client steps lead to a new server crash. The only way to mount the share is >> to type in the path, without browsing. >> >> When the server crashes, the debug shows no warnings and no errors. >> >> The problem did not occur with W10Pro 1703. However, the server should >> not crash, and if it does, it should report useful diagnostics. >> >> R >> >
Re: NFS keeps crashing
Why are you using ooenbsd for anything but a firewall. Even then its lagging way behind unless you deploying in a dentist office. Openbsd sucks at pretty much everything else. Sorry I come from corporate real world experience not Soho stuff. Use Linux. On Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 1:24 AM Rupert Gallagher wrote: > This is what I observed on a controlled environment of three "windows 10 > pro" 1709 clients. > > The obsd nfs server had a single share: > > /path/to/folder -network 192.168.1 -mask 255.255.255.0 > > When mounting a share for the first time, Windows allows browsing the > network to find the resource. This is what happens: > > 1. The client asks for the list of nfs resources; > 2. the server shows a stream of accepted mounts, no warnings, no errors; > 3. while 2 happens, the client shows a warning that the server is not > responding; > 4. when eventually the client returns the list of nfs folders, the server > crashes. > > The above occurs systematically. Restarting the server and repeating the > client steps lead to a new server crash. The only way to mount the share is > to type in the path, without browsing. > > When the server crashes, the debug shows no warnings and no errors. > > The problem did not occur with W10Pro 1703. However, the server should not > crash, and if it does, it should report useful diagnostics. > > R >
Re: NFS keeps crashing
MB wrote: > Invest in a NetApp filer and do it the right way. Plenty of options > spectrascale glfs/cnfs lustre with DNE/IME why struggle with this hobby OS, > seriously? > > On Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 1:31 AM MB wrote: > > > > > Why are you using ooenbsd for anything but a firewall. Even then its > > lagging way behind unless you deploying in a dentist office. Openbsd sucks > > at pretty much everything else. Sorry I come from corporate real world > > experience not Soho stuff. Use Linux. > > A couple of points: (1) Stop top-posting. (2) NetApp is using BSD nfs code. (3) I have run OpenBSD in a "corporate world" on a global scale and it usually outperforms everything else, including Linux, and definitely is much more stable and secure. (4) If OpenBSD "sucks" and you are on a mailing list that "sucks", your life must be truly miserable. To the original author of this thread -- nfs is a UNIX technology, originally made for Unix to Unix communication on a network. Windows client support came later and it is still not stellar. Samba/CIFS is what is a usual scenario here. But if you are serious about this and want to attract developers' attention then please become familiar with sendbug(1). http://www.openbsd.org/report.html --Andy
Re: NFS keeps crashing
> On Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 1:24 AM Rupert Gallagher wrote: > > > This is what I observed on a controlled environment of three "windows 10 > > pro" 1709 clients. > > > > The obsd nfs server had a single share: > > > > /path/to/folder -network 192.168.1 -mask 255.255.255.0 > > > > When mounting a share for the first time, Windows allows browsing the > > network to find the resource. This is what happens: > > > > 1. The client asks for the list of nfs resources; > > 2. the server shows a stream of accepted mounts, no warnings, no errors; > > 3. while 2 happens, the client shows a warning that the server is not > > responding; > > 4. when eventually the client returns the list of nfs folders, the server > > crashes. > > > > The above occurs systematically. Restarting the server and repeating the > > client steps lead to a new server crash. The only way to mount the share is > > to type in the path, without browsing. > > > > When the server crashes, the debug shows no warnings and no errors. > > > > The problem did not occur with W10Pro 1703. However, the server should not > > crash, and if it does, it should report useful diagnostics. Packet captures from broken and working clients would be a good start to figuring out what's going on. On 2018/04/21 06:31, MB wrote: > Why are you using ooenbsd for anything but a firewall. Even then its > lagging way behind unless you deploying in a dentist office. Openbsd sucks > at pretty much everything else. Sorry I come from corporate real world > experience not Soho stuff. Use Linux. Or Windows, you might as well get some nice features to go with the complex mess.
Re: NFS keeps crashing
Linux kernel truly is the kernel plus GCC plus GNU c libraries, a monilitic bloatware that requires serious computing power to compile. Clang is a much better compiler, and linux has serious problems with it. Parts of the kernel are written into gcc and c libs. I am currently focused on embedded edge microservers with decent cpu, all built with clang, and I am experimenting with obsd. What I do not like of obsd is the negative energy of its community. We all have a sympatic gene and tend to mirror the social environment. We should be mindful of it, and try to stay positive. Another thing I do not like is the absence of industrial support. I mean, am I the only one on obsd nfs with windows 10 clients? It feels too much pioneering around here...
Re: NFS keeps crashing
Sat, 21 Apr 2018 06:31:33 + MB > Why are you using ooenbsd for anything but a firewall. Even then its > lagging way behind unless you deploying in a dentist office. Openbsd sucks > at pretty much everything else. Sorry I come from corporate real world > experience not Soho stuff. Use Linux. Hi random web-mail person, You May want to understand there could be different goals and objectives. You Could show some grace and leave the fellow progress their own thread. You Should not tell us all what to use. Relay the comments to your boss. Kind regards, Anton Lazarov > On Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 1:24 AM Rupert Gallagher wrote: > > > This is what I observed on a controlled environment of three "windows 10 > > pro" 1709 clients. > > > > The obsd nfs server had a single share: > > > > /path/to/folder -network 192.168.1 -mask 255.255.255.0 > > > > When mounting a share for the first time, Windows allows browsing the > > network to find the resource. This is what happens: > > > > 1. The client asks for the list of nfs resources; > > 2. the server shows a stream of accepted mounts, no warnings, no errors; > > 3. while 2 happens, the client shows a warning that the server is not > > responding; > > 4. when eventually the client returns the list of nfs folders, the server > > crashes. > > > > The above occurs systematically. Restarting the server and repeating the > > client steps lead to a new server crash. The only way to mount the share is > > to type in the path, without browsing. > > > > When the server crashes, the debug shows no warnings and no errors. > > > > The problem did not occur with W10Pro 1703. However, the server should not > > crash, and if it does, it should report useful diagnostics. > > > > R > >
Re: NFS keeps crashing
On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 10:38:48AM +, Rupert Gallagher wrote: > What I do not like of obsd is the negative energy of its community. We > all have a sympatic gene and tend to mirror the social environment. We > should be mindful of it, and try to stay positive. Another thing I do > not like is the absence of industrial support. I mean, am I the only > one on obsd nfs with windows 10 clients? It feels too much pioneering > around here... On how to report properly, please refer to: https://www.openbsd.org/report.html The project website has a list of vendors offering commercial, "industrial" support. Please refer to: https://www.openbsd.org/support.html -- db
Re: NFS keeps crashing
I mean sponsors who pay for projects and compatibility updates. I also mean broader user base.
Re: NFS keeps crashing
> I mean sponsors who pay for projects and compatibility updates. I also mean broader user base. IMHO: To increase userbase and attract serious sponsors attention, OpenBSD needs to be converted to "friendly-for-non-IT-people" OS like Ubuntu. Do you want to have polkit and Systemd in base system?:) It seems than in obsd you should either investigate issue by reading source code and using debugger or trace, or write to bugs@ and wait for developer answer. I belive NFS is rarely used nowadays, especially with Windows clients. People use samba/smb to connect *nix to Windows in most cases. Samba should be pretty stable because OS X uses it to coexist with MS oses.
Re: NFS keeps crashing
On 18:38 Sat 21 Apr, IL Ka wrote: > > I mean sponsors who pay for projects and compatibility updates. I also > > mean broader user base. > > I belive NFS is rarely used nowadays, especially with Windows clients. > People use samba/smb to connect *nix to Windows in most cases. > Samba should be pretty stable because OS X uses it to coexist with MS oses. Samba is also very very slow if you consider 10G/100G networks. Support for Multi-Channel is still marked as experimental and may kill your data.
Re: NFS keeps crashing
Sat, 21 Apr 2018 18:38:11 +0300 IL Ka > > I mean sponsors who pay for projects and compatibility updates. I also > mean broader user base. > > IMHO: > To increase userbase and attract > serious sponsors attention, OpenBSD needs to be converted > to "friendly-for-non-IT-people" OS like Ubuntu. Hi Ilya, If it was humble you'd keep it to yourself and not bother contemplating, or otherwise using the mailing list to think out loud what need not say. Kind regards, Anton Lazarov > Do you want to have polkit and Systemd in base system?:) > > It seems than in obsd you should either investigate issue > by reading source code and using debugger or trace, > or write to bugs@ and wait for developer answer. > > I belive NFS is rarely used nowadays, especially with Windows clients. > People use samba/smb to connect *nix to Windows in most cases. > Samba should be pretty stable because OS X uses it to coexist with MS oses.
Re: NFS keeps crashing
On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 10:09:38AM +0100, Stuart Henderson wrote: > > On Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 1:24 AM Rupert Gallagher wrote: > > > > > This is what I observed on a controlled environment of three "windows 10 > > > pro" 1709 clients. > > > > > > The obsd nfs server had a single share: > > > > > > /path/to/folder -network 192.168.1 -mask 255.255.255.0 > > > > > > When mounting a share for the first time, Windows allows browsing the > > > network to find the resource. This is what happens: > > > > > > 1. The client asks for the list of nfs resources; > > > 2. the server shows a stream of accepted mounts, no warnings, no errors; > > > 3. while 2 happens, the client shows a warning that the server is not > > > responding; > > > 4. when eventually the client returns the list of nfs folders, the server > > > crashes. > > > > > > The above occurs systematically. Restarting the server and repeating the > > > client steps lead to a new server crash. The only way to mount the share > > > is > > > to type in the path, without browsing. > > > > > > When the server crashes, the debug shows no warnings and no errors. > > > > > > The problem did not occur with W10Pro 1703. However, the server should not > > > crash, and if it does, it should report useful diagnostics. > > Packet captures from broken and working clients would be a good start > to figuring out what's going on. What do you mean by "the server crashes"? Does the complete OS freeze? Or is the OS still working apart from NFS? Did one of te NFS related daemons (nfsd, mountd, portmap) die? -Otto
Re: NFS keeps crashing
On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 18:09, wrote: > Hi Ilya, If it was humble you'd keep it to yourself and not bother > contemplating, or otherwise using the mailing list to think out loud what > need not say. Kind regards, Anton Lazarov Nonsense. Is a Turing award lecture worth publishing? It certainly is. So read this one: "The humble programmer" by Dijksta.
Re: NFS keeps crashing
On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 19:58, Otto Moerbeek wrote: > What do you mean by "the server crashes"? Does the complete OS freeze? Or is > the OS still working apart from NFS? Did one of te NFS related daemons (nfsd, > mountd, portmap) die? I mean that the mountd server crashed. I had "doas mountd -d" up and was reading its output. When it crashed it just returned the shell prompt. No warning, no errors. I have to debug a server in debug mode that does not bother leaving debug information...
Re: NFS keeps crashing
On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 17:38, IL Ka wrote: > I belive NFS is rarely used nowadays, especially with Windows clients. People > use samba/smb to connect *nix to Windows in most cases. Samba should be > pretty stable because OS X uses it to coexist with MS oses. I use it on osx: it is a crippled version of the original that causes endless problems with file permissions. Rock solid for the rest. I would use samba on obsd, but its package requires x11, believe it or not. I mentioned the problem in misc@ and received insults by someone occlusive and dogmatic, so I will not raise the problem again. I am compiling a proper version, but it will take days on the given hardware...
Re: NFS keeps crashing
> I use it on osx: it is a crippled version of the original that causes endless problems with file permissions. Rock solid for the rest. File permissions are always hard to maintain between Windows and *nix, because of Windows ACL's and posix permissions differences. One person on this list mentioned that SMB is slower than NFS. I googled for that and it seems to be true, but article was about SMB2. It could be that SMB3 (supported by Win10) is slightly faster, need to check. See "SMB3 Multi-Channel" experimental feature: https://www.samba.org/samba/ history/samba-4.4.0.html > but its package requires x11, I do not see any X11 here, but some dependencies are strange: xx4$ pkg_info -f samba | grep "@depend" @depend converters/libiconv:libiconv-*:libiconv-1.14p3 @depend databases/openldap,-main:openldap-client-*:openldap-client-2.4.45p4 @depend databases/tdb:tdb->=1.3.14:tdb-1.3.15 @depend devel/gettext:gettext-*:gettext-0.19.8.1p1 @depend devel/jansson:jansson-*:jansson-2.10 @depend devel/libexecinfo:libexecinfo-*:libexecinfo-0.3p0v0 @depend devel/libtalloc:libtalloc->=2.1.9:libtalloc-2.1.11 @depend net/avahi,-main:avahi-*:avahi-0.7p1 @depend net/py-dnspython:py-dnspython-*:py-dnspython-1.15.0 @depend net/samba,-ldb:ldb->=1.2.3:ldb-1.2.3p0 @depend net/samba,-util:samba-util->=4.7.6:samba-util-4.7.6 @depend print/cups,-libs:cups-libs-*:cups-libs-2.2.6 @depend security/gnutls:gnutls-*:gnutls-3.5.18 @depend security/openpam:openpam-*:openpam-20141014 @depend sysutils/gamin,-main:gamin-*:gamin-0.1.10p23 Why do I need OpenLDAP if I do not have domain? What for should I use CUPS if I do not use Samba printing server? Same with avahi which is zeroconf Samba does not have any FLAVORs, unfortunatelly. Probably, you could contact port maintainers and ask them for permission to create several flavors of samba if you have time to create patch.
Re: NFS keeps crashing
Sat, 21 Apr 2018 19:25:13 -0400 Rupert Gallagher > Nonsense. Hi Rupert, You seem to have some problems understanding feedback, here is some help. Cut the crap already. How about dmesg first, then proper problem report? Kind regards, Anton Lazarov Comfortably Dumb (the misc song): http://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html#60d "Relax. The list needs a dmesg first. Just the basic facts Stop whining between your blurts." OpenBSD Problem Reports: https://www.openbsd.org/report.html "Always provide as much information as possible. Try to pinpoint the exact problem. Give clear instructions on how to reproduce the problem. Try to describe it with as much accuracy and non-confusing terminology as possible, especially if it is not easy to reproduce. Describing problems by saying "it crashes" or "I get strange interrupt issues on this one box that I built" are of no use. Communicate with others (on the mailing lists or any other forum where knowledgeable users congregate) to confirm that the problem is new and preferably repeatable. Please try to make sure it is not a local problem created by using broken or unsupported hardware, or by using unsupported build options or software." OpenBSD Mailing Lists: https://www.openbsd.org/mail.html "Stay on topic: Please keep the subject of the post relevant to users of OpenBSD. Include important information: Don't waste everyone's time with a hopelessly incomplete question. No one other than you has the information needed to resolve your problem, it is better to provide more information than needed than not enough detail. All questions should include at least the version of OpenBSD. Any hardware-related questions should mention the platform (i386, amd64, etc.) and provide a full dmesg(8). Hardware model numbers, unfortunately, don't indicate much about the actual content of a particular machine or accessory, and are useless to anyone who doesn't have that exact machine sitting where they can easily recognize it. The dmesg(8) output tells us exactly what is IN your machine, not what stickers are on the outside." sendbug(1) - report a bug in OpenBSD: https://man.openbsd.org/sendbug
Re: NFS keeps crashing
On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 07:20:18PM -0400, Rupert Gallagher wrote: > On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 19:58, Otto Moerbeek wrote: > > > What do you mean by "the server crashes"? Does the complete OS freeze? Or > > is the OS still working apart from NFS? Did one of te NFS related daemons > > (nfsd, mountd, portmap) die? > > I mean that the mountd server crashed. > I had "doas mountd -d" up and was reading its output. When it crashed it just > returned the shell prompt. No warning, no errors. I have to debug a server in > debug mode that does not bother leaving debug information... In that case ktracing mountd might help (as well as (packet captures) to see what is going on. -Otto
Re: NFS keeps crashing
On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 07:33:06PM -0400, Rupert Gallagher wrote: > On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 17:38, IL Ka wrote: > > > I belive NFS is rarely used nowadays, especially with Windows clients. > > People use samba/smb to connect *nix to Windows in most cases. Samba should > > be pretty stable because OS X uses it to coexist with MS oses. > > I use it on osx: it is a crippled version of the original that causes endless > problems with file permissions. Rock solid for the rest. > > I would use samba on obsd, but its package requires x11, believe it or not. I > mentioned the problem in misc@ and received insults by someone occlusive and > dogmatic, so I will not raise the problem again. I am compiling a proper > version, but it will take days on the given hardware... We have gone through this before. Some packages need some libraries that are distributed as part of the base X install. There is no harm in that. You do not need to install the server part of X of that makes you feel better. -Otto
Re: NFS keeps crashing
On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 05:27, wrote: > You seem to have some problems understanding feedback, here is some help. > Cut the crap already. How about dmesg first, then proper problem report? > @protonmail.com> @protonmail.com>> Give clear instructions on how to reproduce the problem. Read again, you will find everything you need to reproduce the problem. Since you are a bit slow, here is how to do it. 1. Open up you obsd console. 2. Kill mountd. 3. Run "doas mountd -d" 4. Open up your updated windows 10 5. Mount a NFS share 6. See that mountd -d crashes without warnings or errors Got it? Now you can do your thing.
Re: NFS keeps crashing
On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 08:17, Otto Moerbeek wrote: > In that case ktracing mountd might help (as well as (packet captures) to see > what is going on. Will get back with the results.
Re: NFS keeps crashing
On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 08:32, Otto Moerbeek wrote: > We have gone through this before. Some packages need some libraries that are > distributed as part of the base X install. There is no harm in that. You do > not need to install the server part of X of that makes you feel better. -Otto Bloatware is a luxury I cannot afford on embedded systems with limited resources where every KB and CPU cycle is accounted for. I would rather submit my recipe for a proper samba source configuration and have the maintainer do the compiling of a flavored version, but I already had negative feedback. The maintainer is dogmatic on having an obese package instead of a lean one that delivers the same functionality without the extra fat.
Re: NFS keeps crashing
Sun, 22 Apr 2018 03:30:50 -0400 Rupert Gallagher > Read again, you will find everything you need to reproduce the problem. Rupert, YOU have problems reproducing - PEBKAC your end. NFS works here.
Re: NFS keeps crashing
For the OP with NFS problems: I think it is better to pay for consultancy and stop talking to yourself on misc@.
Re: NFS keeps crashing
On Sun, 22 Apr 2018, Rupert Gallagher wrote: Bloatware is a luxury I cannot afford on embedded systems with limited resources where every KB and CPU cycle is accounted for. I would rather submit my recipe for a proper samba source configuration and have the maintainer do the compiling of a flavored version, but I already had negative feedback. The maintainer is dogmatic on having an obese package instead of a lean one that delivers the same functionality without the extra fat. It would be nice to have meager packages, it is nice not to have to compile and have everything served as package. But speacially if you are dealing with embedded systems, it is better you compile things yourself. You can use the packages not for installing, but for inspecting the patches. Respecting NFS: I had long ago compatibility problems between OpenBSD and FreeBSD: it worked at the beginning, but was not reliable, it hang when transfering (copying) big files. I do not remember details anymore, where the server and where the client, configuration. Rodrigo.
Re: NFS keeps crashing
The following patch from Microsoft seems to restore functionality. Will see in the following hours. The denial of service remains as a problem on mountd. Will get a spare pc asap and check ktrace. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4088776/windows-10-update-kb4088776