Theo's new compiler and etiquette both in cyberspace and the 'real world' (was: Re: OT: Re: version info )
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Thus Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake Thu, 01 Nov 2007 05:43:06 -0600: Where's the diffs Timo? Are you going to continue preaching bullshit, and then not showing diffs? (Please see the bottom of the email for my reply. As it used to be.) Thus Coleman Kane [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake on Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:03:05 -0400: Timo Schoeler wrote: Thus Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake on Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:04:31 -0600: Perfect. You were the last person I suspected to post an answer like this. However: Arguments? Or just polemics and poo? Tough Shit, Timo. Thus Kjell Wooding [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake on Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:29:51 -0600: @ragge: please don't top-post and full-quote ;) //mirabilos STOP. there is NOTHING BLOODY WRONG with top-posting. It's like arguing big-endian, little-endian. (and it's his own bloody mailing list) -kj I tend to disagree, mainly because of following (IMHO most important reasons mentioned on that site): *snip* http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html Best regards, Timo (- Big Endian. Like Nature :) *snip sig* Um, I tend to prefer bottom posting myself for many of the reasons outlined. However, I've never had problems parsing or navigating the emails of those who do top-post. But it's annoying and wastes time. I tend to agree with Theo and others here, more time is wasted by dealing with discussions on top vs. bottom posting by numerous email formatting Nazis. I agree with you and others that a useless thread popped up, BUT: I don't agree with Theo as I don't go down onto his crappy discussion level. (I now save much time by now writing what I wanted to.) Generally, I expect plain-text email on a list and as few flame-wars about off-topic points, the merits of which are not a science and more personal preference. True. But this does NOT legitimate offenses. Period. I mean, we're all volunteers here, and we really care more to focus on the project at hand. True. But does that mean to scream at each other like overly civilized people? -- Coleman Best regards, Timo Hi list, hi Theo, IMO it's worse than annoying when language like the one you really like to use is used on a (public) mailing list where grown up people try to do some work -- regardless of being _paid_ for doing this work or doing it _voluntarily_. It's just a question of being _nice_ and paying attention to something like an _etiquette_ people around the world usually do. It's just a matter of fact that _you_ are well known for being 'difficult', having an 'abrasive personality', etc. [0] Also well known (and documented) is your use of language on (not only OpenBSD's) mailing lists. Everybody on the net can use her/his favorite search engine and will get gazillions of hits. Or go to slashdot. Your 'use' of language is almost legendary (but not in a sense that it's positive). There are some things I'd like to point out (mainly to show _why_ this _bothers_ me, and why _you_ should pay attention, too): i) Theo, you are the (main) representative of the OpenBSD project. As such, you have _a mission_. Neither I nor anybody else on the planet thinks it would be an advantage for you or the OpenBSD project to kiss about six billion butts on this planet; but this does NOT mean that you should do quite the opposite of it and scream at everybody except your best 20 developer buddies. Theo, you are well-known thoughout the internet, as well as your use of language which is more coprolalia [1] than communicating. Noteworthy is the fact that, mostly in contrast to the GNU/Linux community, BSD folks are well-known as _mature_ people who know how to behave. It's not only about the work a developer does, but also _how_ he does it -- this includes communications with the rest of the world. This behaviour of yours leads directly to problems with ii) OpenBSD (and the OpenBSD project), and its deployability (also, but not exclusively, at customers). In the past I tried to support the OpenBSD project (this includes _yourself_, just to remind you) as much as I could; I wrote articles in _the_ german Unix magazine [2],[3] covering OpenBSD; I bought the OpenBSD install media, T-Shirts, and other gimmicks; I spread the word, and installed OpenBSD (sometimes even to replace another BSD) instead of GNU/Linux or other OSes at customers' sites; I encouraged customers to support the project by buying the OpenBSD install media or donating money. I could continue this list. BUT: How to explain to a customer why I use an OS and support a project, even try to encourage _others_ to do so, when, at the same time, the main representative of this project -- you, Theo -- bitches around like this. For more than a
Re: Theo's new compiler and etiquette both in cyberspace and the 'real world' (was: Re: OT: Re: version info )
EU bank transfer - Receipt Sender: Jens Ropers Recipient: OpenBSD Oostveld Kouter 13 9920 Lovendegem Belgium IBAN: BE93737017743767 BIC-/SWIFT-Code:KREDBEBB Amount: 10.00 EUR Comment:Jens Ropers I cannot afford anything right now but I just had to send this as a response to Timo Schoelers BS mail. Your EU bank transfer order has been dispatched on 04.11.2007 at 11:50 h. PS: Anybody else care to join me and chip in on this occasion? See http://www.openbsd.org/donations.html
Re: Theo's new compiler and etiquette both in cyberspace and the 'real world' (was: Re: OT: Re: version info )
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Thus ropers [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake Sun, 4 Nov 2007 11:36:24 +0100: I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but Sorry, Could Not Resist: Timo-- There are two ways to read your email: 1. You are trying to make a point about how to best lead the OpenBSD project. 2. You're being a jerk who's venting some kind of irrational pent up anger, and you're trying to publicly smear and humuliate Theo. In case it's (1): I don't know if you noticed, but OpenBSD is under the BSD license. Theo and most OpenBSD developers espouse a no-nonsense, tell-the-truth-consequences-be-darned, code-is-better-than-emails, shut-up-and-hack, it's-about-the-fucking-code-stupid approach. If you really believe that your way works better, go ahead and fork. Make your TimoBSD, where you are absolutely free to set the tone in any way you want. If you really believe that your way works better, then prove your point. Put your words into action and see if you attract more and better developers and if you can produce better code with TimoBSD. OpenBSD is widely considered the most secure OS bar none, has only had 2 remote exploits in over 10 years, yadda, yadda, yadda. The NetBSD bellends argued similarly to what's in your email, and OpenBSD, after starting as a NetBSD fork, is now twice as popular as NetBSD, without even ever trying to win any kind of popularity contests. ( http://tinyurl.com/28zowl ) I dare say, Theo has been proved correct. But again, if you want to revisit the old and lame style-vs-substance debate, go right ahead. Code is better than emails. Try to make TimoBSD have better code than OpenBSD with your style over substance approach. I dare you and I double-dare you. See how far you get. Which part of my email did you actually read _and_ understand? The subject? In case it's (2): I have recently learned that it can on occasion be quite helpful to seek assistance from qualified mental health professionals. I would kindly suggest you do the same. Too little, too late, pal. You have to _learn_ polemics before trying to use it. Sincerely, --ropers Best regards, Timo iD8DBQFHLayjUY3eBSqOgOMRCnoPAJ0YNmy88nHnz2bxdDB9nUFdU0ckRQCdFbPj qcVnuYYDkxdrOvPZp7HxN8k= =NUjT -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Theo's new compiler and etiquette both in cyberspace and the 'real world' (was: Re: OT: Re: version info )
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Thus Graham Gower [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake Sun, 4 Nov 2007 20:29:06 +1030: On 04/11/2007, Timo Schoeler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Hi Timo, Could you please stop spamming the mailing lists I subscribe to. Your list? Or have something to hide? :) I'm only interested in the technical discussions. No, you are not, that's why you responded. Just hitting the 'delete' button of you MUA or pressing the appropriate keystrokes would have deleted the message you are complaining about loudly; responding eats many more CPU cycles. Thanks, Graham You're welcome, Timo :) iD8DBQFHLa1lUY3eBSqOgOMRCkZPAJwMeltAz2s9V74Nh87jSadNiCguOQCgii7c aWGdpFuydLNmQtAqcMmfMuE= =ZQcy -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Theo's new compiler and etiquette both in cyberspace and the 'real world' (was: Re: OT: Re: version info )
On 11/4/07, ropers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but Sorry, Could Not Resist: Not feeding a troll is better than posting childish replies like the one you posted. regards VK
Re: Theo's new compiler and etiquette both in cyberspace and the 'real world' (was: Re: OT: Re: version info )
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Thus vivek khurana [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake Sun, 4 Nov 2007 11:40:35 +: On 11/4/07, ropers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but Sorry, Could Not Resist: Not feeding a troll is better than posting childish replies like the one you posted. regards VK What is a troll, btw? Someone who's raising a discussion to keep something alive or enhance things? Best regards, Timo iD8DBQFHLb3rUY3eBSqOgOMRCgr4AKCI71WibABmEynLYmI5Cr1ukxeu5gCdE/uM gbefugBE2pQ7aQMVKpfJUQg= =Ep1E -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Theo's new compiler and etiquette both in cyberspace and the 'real world' (was: Re: OT: Re: version info )
On 04/11/2007, ropers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but Sorry, Could Not Resist: (...) If you really believe that your way works better, go ahead and fork. Make your TimoBSD, where you are absolutely free to set the tone in any way you want. If you really believe that your way works better, then prove your point. Put your words into action and see if you attract more and better developers and if you can produce better code with TimoBSD. OpenBSD is widely considered the most secure OS bar none, has only had 2 remote exploits in over 10 years, yadda, yadda, yadda. The NetBSD bellends argued similarly to what's in your email, and OpenBSD, after starting as a NetBSD fork, is now twice as popular as NetBSD, without even ever trying to win any kind of popularity contests. ( http://tinyurl.com/28zowl ) I dare say, Theo has been proved correct. But again, if you want to revisit the old and lame style-vs-substance debate, go right ahead. Code is better than emails. Try to make TimoBSD have better code than OpenBSD with your style over substance approach. I dare you and I double-dare you. See how far you get. Second thought, you don't even have to fork. Your TimoBSD already exists. It's called NetBSD. You can go right ahead and join them. They rule by committee, they are known to have been nice (i.e. politically correct but inhumane and bonkers**), and I'm sure with your masterful efforts you will lead them to world domination. --ropers **For crissakes, they even substituted their really cool logo with a bland flag, for fear of offending their valued anti-swearing, evolution-denying reborn US-American Christian audience.
Re: Theo's new compiler and etiquette both in cyberspace and the 'real world' (was: Re: OT: Re: version info )
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Thus ropers [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake Sun, 4 Nov 2007 14:22:43 +0100: On 04/11/2007, ropers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but Sorry, Could Not Resist: (...) If you really believe that your way works better, go ahead and fork. Make your TimoBSD, where you are absolutely free to set the tone in any way you want. If you really believe that your way works better, then prove your point. Put your words into action and see if you attract more and better developers and if you can produce better code with TimoBSD. OpenBSD is widely considered the most secure OS bar none, has only had 2 remote exploits in over 10 years, yadda, yadda, yadda. The NetBSD bellends argued similarly to what's in your email, and OpenBSD, after starting as a NetBSD fork, is now twice as popular as NetBSD, without even ever trying to win any kind of popularity contests. ( http://tinyurl.com/28zowl ) I dare say, Theo has been proved correct. But again, if you want to revisit the old and lame style-vs-substance debate, go right ahead. Code is better than emails. Try to make TimoBSD have better code than OpenBSD with your style over substance approach. I dare you and I double-dare you. See how far you get. Second thought, you don't even have to fork. Your TimoBSD already exists. It's called NetBSD. You developer are _that_ bad in logic? YMMD, thanks. You can go right ahead and join them. Where's your facts? I pointed out how OpenBSD could receive more donations. They rule by committee, You missed the recent developments WRT Wasabi. You obviously miss the point that without NetBSD OpenBSD would just _not exist_. (There's it again, this 'logic' thingie.) they are known to have been nice (i.e. politically correct but inhumane and bonkers**), and I'm sure with your masterful efforts you will lead them to world domination. Talk to your psychiatrist, maybe (s)he really can fix your problem, just to paraphrase you. --ropers **For crissakes, they even substituted their really cool logo with a bland flag, for fear of offending their valued anti-swearing, evolution-denying reborn US-American Christian audience. Is that _my_ problem? Best wishes, Timo iD8DBQFHLeFbUY3eBSqOgOMRCqi/AJ9XE44WQLru5oq3OSas0lsmGkPHJwCdESmX 095eKaY0EVYzb64rhVSoRCM= =Sq0s -END PGP SIGNATURE-
