To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
I plan to prepare and produce a DVD version of 4.2 when available this November, complete with the packages, and I'd like to use some artworks as graphics, if not a basis for a custom-made one, for the DVD. Therefore, may I pls know to whom can I direct email to ask for permission to use them? IIRC, there was once a thread here with heated exchange of words over usage of those artworks without due permission. I'm from the Philippines and high-speed internet access here is not yet common, so a DVD distribution would be a nice option and I hope to produce it. I look forward to a prompt reply. Thank you. Respectfully yours, Tito Mari Francis H. Escaqo Computer Engineer and Free Software Proponent Philippines
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
On 9/29/07, Tito Mari Francis Escaqo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I plan to prepare and produce a DVD version of 4.2 when available this > November, complete with the packages, and I'd like to use some > artworks as graphics, if not a basis for a custom-made one, for the > DVD. Therefore, may I pls know to whom can I direct email to ask for > permission to use them? > Theo de Raadt. I took Permissions from him to use it for an article I wrote on OpenBSD. > IIRC, there was once a thread here with heated exchange of words over > usage of those artworks without due permission. > I'm from the Philippines and high-speed internet access here is not > yet common, so a DVD distribution would be a nice option and I hope to > produce it. > I look forward to a prompt reply. Thank you. > Not sure if you will have much luck here :-) Kind Regards Siju
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
On 10/1/07, Siju George <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 9/29/07, Tito Mari Francis Escaqo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I plan to prepare and produce a DVD version of 4.2 when available this > > November, complete with the packages, and I'd like to use some > > artworks as graphics, if not a basis for a custom-made one, for the > > DVD. Therefore, may I pls know to whom can I direct email to ask for > > permission to use them? > > > > Theo de Raadt. > I took Permissions from him to use it for an article I wrote on OpenBSD. > > > IIRC, there was once a thread here with heated exchange of words over > > usage of those artworks without due permission. > > I'm from the Philippines and high-speed internet access here is not > > yet common, so a DVD distribution would be a nice option and I hope to > > produce it. > > I look forward to a prompt reply. Thank you. > > > > Not sure if you will have much luck here :-) To explain this more fully with the party line: the project supports itself via donations and selling CDs of releases. If you create DVDs to distribute you are hurting the project by discouraging the sale of CDs. You could volunteer to become a reseller, though (i.e. you buy a large shipment of CDs and sell them at cost to people in your country.) -nick
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
Hi! On Mon, Oct 01, 2007 at 10:50:05AM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote: >[...] >To explain this more fully with the party line: the project supports >itself via donations and selling CDs of releases. If you create DVDs >to distribute you are hurting the project by discouraging the sale of >CDs. You could volunteer to become a reseller, though (i.e. you buy a >large shipment of CDs and sell them at cost to people in your >country.) Wouldn't it be win-win if people there could buy DVD (with more data on it, i.e. needing less downloads) and an agreement could be made that XX $ (enough to compensate for the not-sold CDs) for each DVD sold are paid to OpenBSD? Kind regards, Hannah.
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
Hannah Schroeter wrote: Hi! On Mon, Oct 01, 2007 at 10:50:05AM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote: [...] To explain this more fully with the party line: the project supports itself via donations and selling CDs of releases. If you create DVDs to distribute you are hurting the project by discouraging the sale of CDs. You could volunteer to become a reseller, though (i.e. you buy a large shipment of CDs and sell them at cost to people in your country.) Wouldn't it be win-win if people there could buy DVD (with more data on it, i.e. needing less downloads) and an agreement could be made that XX $ (enough to compensate for the not-sold CDs) for each DVD sold are paid to OpenBSD? Kind regards, Hannah. The real win-win is they buy official CD's, support OBSD, and thereby help ensure more OBSD is available to use.
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
On 10/1/07, Hannah Schroeter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi! > > On Mon, Oct 01, 2007 at 10:50:05AM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote: > >[...] > > >To explain this more fully with the party line: the project supports > >itself via donations and selling CDs of releases. If you create DVDs > >to distribute you are hurting the project by discouraging the sale of > >CDs. You could volunteer to become a reseller, though (i.e. you buy a > >large shipment of CDs and sell them at cost to people in your > >country.) > > Wouldn't it be win-win if people there could buy DVD (with more data on > it, i.e. needing less downloads) and an agreement could be made that XX > $ (enough to compensate for the not-sold CDs) for each DVD sold are paid > to OpenBSD? > I thought of that, Hannah, but I concluded that Theo would not want to deal with the extra bureaucracy all that would entail. There would need to be some sort of legal agreement struck, and so forth. -Nick
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
> Wouldn't it be win-win if people there could buy DVD (with more data on > it, i.e. needing less downloads) and an agreement could be made that XX > $ (enough to compensate for the not-sold CDs) for each DVD sold are paid > to OpenBSD? No, it wouldn't. The project has already contemplated making DVD releases, but the fact is what we have fits currently on what we ship. Having said that CD sales are lagging badly this release, and are threatening the financial health of the project. If you want OpenBSD to continue, you should be buying official CD's. You certainly should not be worried about download volume, and misguided attempts to make your own releases and sell them only put the project in more financial duress. You want to help? go on to the CD site and order 20 or 40 and resell in the philippines - Don't try to pirate the artwork to make your own release and screw everything up. -Bob
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
On Mon, Oct 01, 2007 at 09:43:37AM -0600, Bob Beck wrote: > > Wouldn't it be win-win if people there could buy DVD (with more data on > > it, i.e. needing less downloads) and an agreement could be made that XX > > $ (enough to compensate for the not-sold CDs) for each DVD sold are paid > > to OpenBSD? > > No, it wouldn't. The project has already contemplated making DVD > releases, but the fact is what we have fits currently on what we ship. > > Having said that CD sales are lagging badly this release, and are > threatening > the financial health of the project. If you want OpenBSD to continue, you > should be buying > official CD's. You certainly should not be worried about download volume, and > misguided > attempts to make your own releases and sell them only put the project in more > financial > duress. You want to help? go on to the CD site and order 20 or 40 and resell > in the > philippines - Don't try to pirate the artwork to make your own release and > screw everything > up. I say: make your OpenBSD DVDs, sell them cheaply, and just don't use the official artwork. Don't be misguided by what has been said here. OpenBSD is genuinely *free*. That means you can use it for whatever you like. There's nothing in any way immoral from selling it, whether or not you make a profit. If Theo or the other contributors didn't want you to have the freedom to do that, they wouldn't release their work under the BSD licence. Speaking for myself, I fully support making free software more widely available, especially in developing countries. Such users often cannot bear the developed-world price, and dare I say it, often there's a wide availability of pirated commercial software to compete against too. Heck, if your users decided to use Linux they could get a CD shipped to them *free* anywhere in the world: e.g. https://shipit.ubuntu.com/ So go for it. Selling OpenBSD DVDs in the Philippines won't hurt anyone; it can only help your customers, and help OpenBSD gain mindshare which would otherwise go to Linux. Good luck in your venture. Regards, Brian. P.S. If you still feel uncomfortable by what others have said in this thread: then I suggest you make, sell and evangelise FreeBSD DVDs instead. Unlike OpenBSD, the FreeBSD project releases ISO images which you are free to copy.
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
Theo is the copyright holder of the CD directory structure used by the install CDs. If someone wanna sell a CD (or DVD) legally, s/he will have to: - get a written permission from Theo or - code an entirely new installation procedure > > I say: make your OpenBSD DVDs, sell them cheaply, and just don't use the > official artwork. > > Don't be misguided by what has been said here. OpenBSD is genuinely *free*. > That means you can use it for whatever you like. There's nothing in any way > immoral from selling it, whether or not you make a profit. If Theo or the > other contributors didn't want you to have the freedom to do that, they > wouldn't release their work under the BSD licence. >
Re: : To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
Yes, but creating one bootable CD from cd41.iso and one containing the files from the /OpenBSD/4.1/i386/ directory (in the directory /4.1/i386/) of the ftp sites is easy enough. The install kernel bsd.rd is in the cd41.iso, and it contains the install script, free to use as I know it. You only will have to swap CDs to install the system tarballs. To build a single installation CD using mkisofs, cdboot and the same contents should be slightly harder, but very feasible. To step on Theo's copyright I guess you will have to copy more e.g from the package selection, tools or songs. Just packaging the standard installation directory is not particulary creative work. Anyone would do it that way. It is more or less described in the FAQs. On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 09:56:16AM -0300, Marcus Andree wrote: > Theo is the copyright holder of the CD directory structure used by the > install CDs. > If someone wanna sell a CD (or DVD) legally, s/he will have to: > > - get a written permission from Theo or > - code an entirely new installation procedure > > > > > > I say: make your OpenBSD DVDs, sell them cheaply, and just don't use the > > official artwork. > > > > Don't be misguided by what has been said here. OpenBSD is genuinely *free*. > > That means you can use it for whatever you like. There's nothing in any way > > immoral from selling it, whether or not you make a profit. If Theo or the > > other contributors didn't want you to have the freedom to do that, they > > wouldn't release their work under the BSD licence. > > > -- / Raimo Niskanen, Erlang/OTP, Ericsson AB
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
On 02.10-09:56, Marcus Andree wrote: > Theo is the copyright holder of the CD directory structure used by the > install CDs. > If someone wanna sell a CD (or DVD) legally, s/he will have to: > > - get a written permission from Theo or > - code an entirely new installation procedure i find this all rather sad and mis-guided, the software is freely available to those who wish to use it. we should also endeavour to make it as widely available as possible. the artwork is another question for theo (assuming he's the owner of that), i mean, openbsd is his "brand" and what he does there is his business. it is also not possible to limit use of the directory structure with copyright. you would need to alter the license to include a clause around installation media and distribution or release the install scripts and programs under a different license; of course such a clause would be almost directly contradictory to current license. i.e. some stupid trick around CD directory structure is directly contradictory to the priciples encapsulated in our licensing. paying for it requires a choice, no matter what tricks we put in place around CDs. surely we can simply trust and encourage contributions particularly when people intend to profit. and if the original poster reads this you may read that as, "whatever the actual outcome, if you make a profit please ensure you give something back. and oh, yeah, try to encourage the users to do the same once they get the CD home" (though i have to confess, i haven't made a donation since i upgraded my gateway to 4.1 ... i have an excuse !!! and it was only last week. and i will)
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
> (though i have to confess, i haven't made a donation since i upgraded > my gateway to 4.1 ... i have an excuse !!! and it was only last week. > and i will) > And this is exactly the problem. Look, you guys can quibble all you want about "awww, we should be able to make our own distros" Yes, you can. However, you won't be able to make your own distro when OpenBSD ceases to exist for financial reasons. Free software still costs money to produce, and all the talk about "well I should donate" does not translate into dollars. Unless people buy CD's, you may not see future releases. it's that simple. We all love doing this, but without money to maintain a place to do it and someone to look over it, it isn't going to continue. -Bob
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
On 02.10-11:46, Bob Beck wrote: > > (though i have to confess, i haven't made a donation since i upgraded > > my gateway to 4.1 ... i have an excuse !!! and it was only last week. > > and i will) > > And this is exactly the problem. Look, you guys can quibble > all you want about "awww, we should be able to make our own distros" > Yes, you can. no, this is "a" problem. and there's no question that it's important but the relevant discussion was above your cut. even less to the point, i contribute more than the cost of a CD set without the overhead (but then it's value is greater to me than it may be to others). encouraging people to purchase CD sets is great (bit like a suggested donation at a museum) but more important is iterating to people the value of the software and that it is their *responsibility* to refelect that value in their contibutions; whatever form that contribution takes.
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
I have already found a resolution on this, I'll continue with creating an OpenBSD DVD, since I believe the custom-built distro would enable people in my country to reap the benefits of the software, but without using any OBSD artwork. As for donating to the OBSD project, of course I want to give back to the community where I got the treasure-trove. I just hope it would be the soonest as I hoped. Why leave the resource you reap from lay barren? Thanks! On 10/3/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 02.10-11:46, Bob Beck wrote: > > > (though i have to confess, i haven't made a donation since i upgraded > > > my gateway to 4.1 ... i have an excuse !!! and it was only last week. > > > and i will) > > > > And this is exactly the problem. Look, you guys can quibble > > all you want about "awww, we should be able to make our own distros" > > Yes, you can. > > no, this is "a" problem. and there's no question that it's important > but the relevant discussion was above your cut. even less to the > point, i contribute more than the cost of a CD set without the overhead > (but then it's value is greater to me than it may be to others). > > encouraging people to purchase CD sets is great (bit like a suggested > donation at a museum) but more important is iterating to people the > value of the software and that it is their *responsibility* to refelect > that value in their contibutions; whatever form that contribution > takes. > > -- Tito Mari Francis H. Escaqo Computer Engineer and Free Software Proponent
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
So if I need five CDs for five servers, should I buy one CD (something to install off and also so that my employer gets something physical for the expenditure - seems to help getting the money) and donate $200 - total $250? Or would you prefer me to buy 5 CDs so that CD sales are up - and so same total $250? Seems like a dumb question ($200 for doing nothing has got to leave the project with more money than $200 for making four CD sets?) but the repeated references to CD sales has got me wondering ... I am assuming the "buy CDs" message is directed at people who do not give anything at all. But if you assume, then you might make an ASS of U and ME ... 8-) Thanks. On 3/10/2007, at 5:46 AM, Bob Beck wrote: (though i have to confess, i haven't made a donation since i upgraded my gateway to 4.1 ... i have an excuse !!! and it was only last week. and i will) And this is exactly the problem. Look, you guys can quibble all you want about "awww, we should be able to make our own distros" Yes, you can. However, you won't be able to make your own distro when OpenBSD ceases to exist for financial reasons. Free software still costs money to produce, and all the talk about "well I should donate" does not translate into dollars. Unless people buy CD's, you may not see future releases. it's that simple. We all love doing this, but without money to maintain a place to do it and someone to look over it, it isn't going to continue. -Bob
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
Brian Candler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Don't be misguided by what has been said here. OpenBSD is genuinely *free*. > That means you can use it for whatever you like. There's nothing in any way > immoral from selling it, whether or not you make a profit. There's a difference between immoral and illegal. Just because we don't want to forbid it, doesn't mean we have to like it. The license takes the stance "we don't know better than you what your needs are", but it doesn't mean we can't judge your behavior later. As a similar situation, freedom of speech isn't freedom from consequences, it's just a freedom from punishment. If you say stupid things, you will get bad reputation and you will get criticized. In our case, if you do bad things with our code, we will make moral judgements about it, we will criticize you, we just won't take you to court. Just because you can build baby mulching machines doesn't mean we have to use them or like them. //art
Re: : To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
If bandwidth is the problem, why not make a DVD simply containing the complete packages repository. That can be used as package source for pkg_add. The regular CDs can be bought and used for installation. You can also go through the work and download (all?) the distro files in the ports tree and put them on the DVD. Then you can transfer the appropriate ones to the ports tree and build the ports without a network conection. Also collect the FAQ and other necessary stuff from openbsd.org. On Wed, Oct 03, 2007 at 08:06:50AM +0800, Tito Mari Francis Escaqo wrote: > I have already found a resolution on this, I'll continue with creating > an OpenBSD DVD, since I believe the custom-built distro would enable > people in my country to reap the benefits of the software, but without > using any OBSD artwork. > > As for donating to the OBSD project, of course I want to give back to > the community where I got the treasure-trove. I just hope it would be > the soonest as I hoped. Why leave the resource you reap from lay > barren? > > Thanks! > > > On 10/3/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 02.10-11:46, Bob Beck wrote: > > > > (though i have to confess, i haven't made a donation since i upgraded > > > > my gateway to 4.1 ... i have an excuse !!! and it was only last week. > > > > and i will) > > > > > > And this is exactly the problem. Look, you guys can quibble > > > all you want about "awww, we should be able to make our own distros" > > > Yes, you can. > > > > no, this is "a" problem. and there's no question that it's important > > but the relevant discussion was above your cut. even less to the > > point, i contribute more than the cost of a CD set without the overhead > > (but then it's value is greater to me than it may be to others). > > > > encouraging people to purchase CD sets is great (bit like a suggested > > donation at a museum) but more important is iterating to people the > > value of the software and that it is their *responsibility* to refelect > > that value in their contibutions; whatever form that contribution > > takes. > > > > > > > -- > Tito Mari Francis H. Escaqo > Computer Engineer and Free Software Proponent -- / Raimo Niskanen, Erlang/OTP, Ericsson AB
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
* Richard Toohey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-10-03 08:04]: > So if I need five CDs for five servers, should I buy one CD (something > to install off and also so that my employer gets something physical for > the expenditure - seems to help getting the money) and donate $200 > - total $250? > > Or would you prefer me to buy 5 CDs so that CD sales are up - and > so same total $250? > > Seems like a dumb question ($200 for doing nothing has got to leave > the project with more money than $200 for making four CD sets?) but > the repeated references to CD sales has got me wondering ... I am > assuming the "buy CDs" message is directed at people who do not > give anything at all. exactly. from donations, 100% get to the project (well, minus credit card processing perhaps). from CD sales, the percentage is obviously lower, due to the production costs. -- Henning Brauer, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] BS Web Services, http://bsws.de Full-Service ISP - Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services Dedicated Servers, Rootservers, Application Hosting - Hamburg & Amsterdam
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 11:46:24AM -0600, Bob Beck wrote: > > (though i have to confess, i haven't made a donation since i upgraded > > my gateway to 4.1 ... i have an excuse !!! and it was only last week. > > and i will) > > > > And this is exactly the problem. Look, you guys can quibble > all you want about "awww, we should be able to make our own distros" > Yes, you can. > > However, you won't be able to make your own distro when OpenBSD > ceases to exist for financial reasons. Free software still costs money > to produce, and all the talk about "well I should donate" does not translate > into dollars. > > Unless people buy CD's, you may not see future releases. it's that > simple. We all love doing this, but without money to maintain a place to > do it and someone to look over it, it isn't going to continue. That is blatant FUD. There are dozens of counterexamples of large-scale free software projects which continue successfully without this sort of emotional blackmail. I would argue that OpenBSD is probably the least "free" of all the free Unix options out there. Why? * You cannot download an ISO image and burn it yourself. * If you buy a CD-ROM, you cannot legally make copies to give to your friends, your school etc. By this measure, OpenBSD is about as "free" as, say, Red Hat Enterprise Linux. Of course, if there were enough demand, someone would go and make their own OpenBSD distribution with downloadable unencumbered ISO images built from source - such as CentOS do with RHEL. Nobody says "don't use CentOS; you're stealing money from those poor Red Hat guys who have put so much investment into refining their product". The reason nobody makes free OpenBSD ISO images, I presume, is because the user base is comparatively tiny, and it's not worth the effort. And that in turn is probably because OpenBSD turns people away with this sort of nonsense. FreeBSD used to have a similar model: you had to buy the CDs and you couldn't copy them. They abandoned it several years ago, and have flourished since. If they hadn't, they would have risked losing against the Linux tide. They also risked losing high quality code contributors. So if OpenBSD does come to an end, as you threaten, IMO it won't be because people don't buy the CDs - it will be because it continues to cut itself off from the mainstream and simply becomes irrelevant. Regards, Brian.
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
On Wed, Oct 03, 2007 at 07:27:59PM +0100, Brian Candler wrote: | That is blatant FUD. There are dozens of counterexamples of large-scale free | software projects which continue successfully without this sort of emotional | blackmail. FUD ? Hmm. | I would argue that OpenBSD is probably the least "free" of all the free Unix | options out there. Why? | | * You cannot download an ISO image and burn it yourself. Yes you can. It may not be an image of the release CD's, but you can most certainly download ISO's, burn them, copy them, make coasters out of them, shoot them at the moon, watch them fall back on your nose, etc. | * If you buy a CD-ROM, you cannot legally make copies to give to your | friends, your school etc. This is true for most CD's you buy these days. Talk about FUD. | By this measure, OpenBSD is about as "free" as, say, Red Hat Enterprise | Linux. By the 'you have to pay for the official distribution CD's', OpenBSD is about as free as Microsoft. What is your point ? The fact that the software on the CD is free ? Or that it isn't ? You have me confused. | Of course, if there were enough demand, someone would go and make their own | OpenBSD distribution with downloadable unencumbered ISO images built from | source - such as CentOS do with RHEL. Nobody says "don't use CentOS; you're | stealing money from those poor Red Hat guys who have put so much investment | into refining their product". So go do it. Nobody is stopping you, read Bob's mail again. You can do it, go right ahead. I won't buy it because it lacks the stickers - probably the only reason I buy the CD's (oh, and the fact that I want the 'entire series' of course). You may even find yourself ridiculed. You don't seem to care about that, so why not do it ? | The reason nobody makes free OpenBSD ISO images, I presume, is because the | user base is comparatively tiny, and it's not worth the effort. And that in | turn is probably because OpenBSD turns people away with this sort of | nonsense. What is the nonsense here, exactly ? The fact that OpenBSD tries to generate some money to fund the project ? Or is it just the way they do it ? There isn't some business funding the project on a steady basis (that I know of), except their own business of selling CD's (and other stuff). | FreeBSD used to have a similar model: you had to buy the CDs and you | couldn't copy them. They abandoned it several years ago, and have flourished | since. If they hadn't, they would have risked losing against the Linux tide. | They also risked losing high quality code contributors. Perhaps the goals of FreeBSD differ from those of OpenBSD. I can't tell for sure as I'm not deeply into FreeBSD. I do know that there is a somewhat larger company backing the project, as is the case with Linux (not just talking about Red Hat here). | So if OpenBSD does come to an end, as you threaten, IMO it won't be because | people don't buy the CDs - it will be because it continues to cut itself off | from the mainstream and simply becomes irrelevant. I doubt OpenBSD will come to an end. "By the developers, for the developers" has been seen on these lists several times. The public (ie, me) may not get as much out of it as we do now, but that doesn't mean it goes away. The funding pays for lots of stuff that we, as users of the OS, get for free. If the funding disappears, it would also hurt the users, so it's up to the users to make sure funding doesn't disappear. Buy CD's. Donate. Make your employer donate. Do what you can. It's sad to see that complaining about the "non freeness" of the CD's is most what some users can do. OpenBSD mainstream ? Don't think it ever has been. I doubt it's a goal of the project anyway. "Irrelevant" ? OpenSSH. Fud for thought... Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd -- >[<++>-]<+++.>+++[<-->-]<.>+++[<+ +++>-]<.>++[<>-]<+.--.[-] http://www.weirdnet.nl/ [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
Brian Candler wrote: On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 11:46:24AM -0600, Bob Beck wrote: (though i have to confess, i haven't made a donation since i upgraded my gateway to 4.1 ... i have an excuse !!! and it was only last week. and i will) And this is exactly the problem. Look, you guys can quibble all you want about "awww, we should be able to make our own distros" Yes, you can. However, you won't be able to make your own distro when OpenBSD ceases to exist for financial reasons. Free software still costs money to produce, and all the talk about "well I should donate" does not translate into dollars. Unless people buy CD's, you may not see future releases. it's that simple. We all love doing this, but without money to maintain a place to do it and someone to look over it, it isn't going to continue. That is blatant FUD. There are dozens of counterexamples of large-scale free software projects which continue successfully without this sort of emotional blackmail. I would argue that OpenBSD is probably the least "free" of all the free Unix options out there. Why? * You cannot download an ISO image and burn it yourself. * If you buy a CD-ROM, you cannot legally make copies to give to your friends, your school etc. By this measure, OpenBSD is about as "free" as, say, Red Hat Enterprise Linux. Of course, if there were enough demand, someone would go and make their own OpenBSD distribution with downloadable unencumbered ISO images built from source - such as CentOS do with RHEL. Nobody says "don't use CentOS; you're stealing money from those poor Red Hat guys who have put so much investment into refining their product". The reason nobody makes free OpenBSD ISO images, I presume, is because the user base is comparatively tiny, and it's not worth the effort. And that in turn is probably because OpenBSD turns people away with this sort of nonsense. FreeBSD used to have a similar model: you had to buy the CDs and you couldn't copy them. They abandoned it several years ago, and have flourished since. If they hadn't, they would have risked losing against the Linux tide. They also risked losing high quality code contributors. So if OpenBSD does come to an end, as you threaten, IMO it won't be because people don't buy the CDs - it will be because it continues to cut itself off from the mainstream and simply becomes irrelevant. why are you on our mailing lists?
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
> why are you on our mailing lists? Indeed, my response also. -- "I am very easy to get along with, but I don't have time to waste being nice to people who are being stupid." -- Theo de Raadt, Founder/Lead Developer of OpenBSD
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
On Oct 03 19:27:59, Brian Candler wrote: > The reason nobody makes free OpenBSD ISO images, I presume, is because > the user base is comparatively tiny, and it's not worth the effort. Do you mean the effort of running rsync && mkisofs, or the effort of writing a trivial shell script wrapper around it? Because that's what it takes if you _decide_not_to_buy_ the official CD. > And that in turn is probably because OpenBSD turns > people away with this sort of nonsense. Are you turned away from OpenBSD because you cannot download an iso? Good. Jan
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
Marc Balmer wrote: why are you on our mailing lists? Because he has the freedom to?
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
Brian Candler wrote: > I would argue that OpenBSD is probably the least "free" of all > the free Unix options out there. Why? > > * You cannot download an ISO image and burn it yourself. > * If you buy a CD-ROM, you cannot legally make copies to give to > your friends, your school etc. You mix up free as in freedom with free as in gratis. # Han
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
Jan Stary wrote: On Oct 03 19:27:59, Brian Candler wrote: The reason nobody makes free OpenBSD ISO images, I presume, is because the user base is comparatively tiny, and it's not worth the effort. Do you mean the effort of running rsync && mkisofs, or the effort of writing a trivial shell script wrapper around it? Because that's what it takes if you _decide_not_to_buy_ the official CD. And its just as trivial for users coming from Windows. My son uses WinXP to play his games; but we worked together to build a router with OpenBSD 4.0 last year. He recently wanted to try OpenBSD as desktop on a spare system and I misplaced my 4.1 cdrom (since found again). I don't know if he read FAQ 4.3.3; but he configured the burning software to use cdrom41.fs as boot image and included filesets on same cdrom. Presto, a complete ISO install disk. It would have been trivial to add some packages. It seems to me the install process cannot find filesets if they are placed in root directory on cdrom; but that's easily corrected using expected directory structure.
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
On 10/6/07, Frank Bax <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Presto, a complete ISO install disk. It would have been trivial to add > some packages. It seems to me the install process cannot find filesets > if they are placed in root directory on cdrom; but that's easily > corrected using expected directory structure. doesn't the install process prompt you for the path to sets? sure, it assumes $MOUNTPOINT/$VERSION/$ARCH but if memory serves correctly you could override and say the sets were in "." ... aka the root of the mount point of the source disk. CK -- GDB has a 'break' feature; why doesn't it have 'fix' too?
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
Chris Kuethe wrote: On 10/6/07, Frank Bax <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Presto, a complete ISO install disk. It would have been trivial to add some packages. It seems to me the install process cannot find filesets if they are placed in root directory on cdrom; but that's easily corrected using expected directory structure. doesn't the install process prompt you for the path to sets? sure, it assumes $MOUNTPOINT/$VERSION/$ARCH but if memory serves correctly you could override and say the sets were in "." ... aka the root of the mount point of the source disk. It's been a while since I did that, so it could be fixed now; but I remember trying lots of things at that prompt during install rather than burn another disk, but nothing worked for me. Sure the default can be overriden - that usually works; but I couldn't get it to work when filesets where in root directory of cdrom.
Re: To whom can I direct email for artwork use permission pls?
On Saturday 06 October 2007, you wrote: > doesn't the install process prompt you for the path to sets? sure, it > assumes $MOUNTPOINT/$VERSION/$ARCH but if memory serves correctly you > could override and say the sets were in "." ... aka the root of the > mount point of the source disk. > > CK Yes, that's how I do it when I cut new ISOs with errata and packages... --James
