Searchable archives (was: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is...)
At 02:13 PM 12/24/01 +0800, Stas Bekman wrote: FWIW, we are having what seems to be a very productive discussion at docs-dev mailing list. Unfortunately no mail archiver seem to pick this list up, so only the mbox files are available: http://perl.apache.org/mail/docs-dev/ Is anyone up to make the searchable archives available? We have a bunch of lists that aren't browsable/searchable :( http://perl.apache.org/#maillists Hi Stas, Any reason to not use hypermail? Do you have mbox files for all the lists in question? I could setup searchable archives like this example, if you like. http://search.apache.org/docs-dev/ (this URL is temporary!) Bill Moseley mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Searchable archives (was: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is...)
Bill Moseley wrote: At 02:13 PM 12/24/01 +0800, Stas Bekman wrote: FWIW, we are having what seems to be a very productive discussion at docs-dev mailing list. Unfortunately no mail archiver seem to pick this list up, so only the mbox files are available: http://perl.apache.org/mail/docs-dev/ Is anyone up to make the searchable archives available? We have a bunch of lists that aren't browsable/searchable :( http://perl.apache.org/#maillists Hi Stas, Any reason to not use hypermail? Do you have mbox files for all the lists in question? I could setup searchable archives like this example, if you like. http://search.apache.org/docs-dev/ (this URL is temporary!) That would be grand! All the mailboxes are here: http://perl.apache.org/mail/ There are two more lists that we (mod_perl people) work with and they have no archive: http://httpd.apache.org/mail/test-dev/ http://httpd.apache.org/mail/test-cvs/ Thanks Bill! _ Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is...
Hi there, On Sun, 23 Dec 2001, Philip Mak wrote: I took a look at the winning design You just spammed the Net with 100 Megabytes of junk. Please don't send 60k messages to the mod_perl list. 73, Ged.
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is...
Philip Mak wrote: I took a look at the winning design at http://domm.zsi.at/modperl-site-domm/ and I see a significant problem for people in 800x600 resolution (which is pretty common still, and I use it): Philip, can you please repost your comments to docs-dev at perl.apache.org? We don't want to clutter this list with the site's discussions any more. Also folks have already fixed a lot of things, so you may be looking at the outdated version. Thanks! FWIW, we are having what seems to be a very productive discussion at docs-dev mailing list. Unfortunately no mail archiver seem to pick this list up, so only the mbox files are available: http://perl.apache.org/mail/docs-dev/ Is anyone up to make the searchable archives available? We have a bunch of lists that aren't browsable/searchable :( http://perl.apache.org/#maillists Thanks! _ Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is...
I took a look at the winning design at
http://domm.zsi.at/modperl-site-domm/ and I see a significant problem for
people in 800x600 resolution (which is pretty common still, and I use it):
A horizontal scrollbar appears at the bottom of the screen.
Can't this be fixed? Also, the left sidebar seems to be wider than it
needs to be. The logo is 150 pixels, so I think it only has to be that
wide.
I have attached a screenshot from 800x600 resolution in Opera 6. (The same
thing happens in Internet Explorer 5.5.)
I took a look at the style sheet
(http://domm.zsi.at/modperl-site-domm/style.css) and changed a few numbers
such that the left sidebar takes up less space, and made it so that the
page is allowed to compress smaller such that it'll even fit in 640x480
(about 10% of internet users have that resolution last I checked, although
this proportion may be smaller for programmers).
I attached the changed style sheet; I think it's better this way. You can
see how it looks online at http://sg1.indexthis.net/~pmak/modperl.html.
Under smaller resolutions the horizontal scrollbar is gone, but it'll look
pretty much the same on 1024x768.
BTW, kudos to the designer on making that page without using TABLE tags
(which prevent incremental rendering)! I've tried to figure out how to do
that myself before but didn't manage to do so for pages this complicated.
(If the person viewing the page doesn't have stylesheet support though,
the sidebar will show up at the bottom of the page... Do we have any
statistics on what percentage of people viewing the mod_perl website have
user agents that don't do stylesheets, or Netscape with JavaScript off?)
modperl.gif
Description: Screenshot from 800x600
body { font-family: helvetica, verdana, sans-serif;
font-size:small;
color: #00;
background-color: #ff;
}
h1 {
padding:2px;
background-color: #828DA6;
color:#ff;
}
a:link { color:#ff; font-family: helvetica, verdana, sans-serif;}
a:visited {color:#ff; font-family: helvetica, verdana, sans-serif; }
a:active {color:#ff; font-family: helvetica, verdana, sans-serif; }
a:hover {color:#ff; font-family: helvetica, verdana, sans-serif;}
pre {
font-family: courier new, courier, monospace;
color: #00;
}
code {
font-family: courier new, courier, monospace;
}
div.navbar a {text-decoration: none; color:#ff;}
div.activenav a {text-decoration: none; color:#ff;}
div.navbarglobal a {text-decoration: none; color:#ff;}
div.notactivenav a {text-decoration: none; color:#525D76;}
div.toc a {text-decoration: none;color:#ff;}
div.leftcont {
position:absolute;
top:5px;
left:5px;
width:160px;
}
div.content {
position:absolute;
top:5px;
left:175px;
margin-right:10px;
padding:5px;
border:1px;
border-style:solid;
border-color:#525D76;
background-color: #ff;
}
div.logo {
padding:5px;
border:1px;
border-style:solid;
border-color:#525D76;
background-color: #ff;
text-align:center;
}
div.navbar {
padding:2px;
border:0px;
border-style:solid;
border-color:#525D76;
background-color: #ff;
}
div.activenav {
font-weight:bold;
padding:2px;
background-color: #525D76;
}
div.notactivenav {
padding:2px;
font-weight:bold;
border:1px;
border-style:solid;
border-color:#525D76;
margin-top:-1px;
}
div.navbarglobal {
padding:2px;
background-color: #525D76;
color:#ff;
}
div.navbarlocal {
padding:2px;
text-align:center;
}
div.tail {
padding-top:10px;
padding:5px;
border:1px;
border-style:solid;
border-color:#525D76;
background-color: #ff;
}
div.ad {
border:1px;
padding:5px;
border-style:solid;
border-color:#525D76;
background-color: #ff;
}
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is...
Ideally if Thomas, Carlos and Allan could take the best of each other's work and produce the perfect design, that That would be OK for me, Carlos, Allan?? Wow, all three winners have agreed to work together to make the killer design! that's great guys!!! I guess the next step is to apply fixes suggested in the comments I posted yesterday and do some more polishing. Please post the URLs of things that you change to the docs-dev mailing list. Use [EMAIL PROTECTED] to get yourself on this list. And we will discuss it there. Remember David Harris' suggestion to use the colormap (and layout?) used by other ASF sites. Sounds like a good idea. Thanks again! _ Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is...
I'm throwing in my two cents a bit late, so it's a bit depreciated now (one cent?). But something to think about for the site. I've worked with php a little lately -- not programming, but making minor changes to a site. I've used the php site http://www.php.net/ a few times, and I've found it reasonably functional, but also quite easy for someone new to php. Maybe it seems that way because I know nothing about php and it's geared toward my level. But that's good. How often to the mod_perl pros need to read the mod_perl home page? I'm sure all these elements will be added to the new mod_perl site in some way, but I just wanted to note what I liked about the php site. And I'm not comparing mod_perl to php! What the php site shows in a real obvious way is: 1) what is php (for someone that is brand new) with a link to some basic examples. It demystifies php in a hurry. Makes someone think Oh, I can do that. 2) currently, it's showing Netcraft's usage stats, so I see that people are using it in growing numbers -- it's not a dead-end for a new person to try out. 3) it shows upcoming events. That shows that there's a real support group of real people to work with. Links to discussion lists archives would be good there. All that makes it really easy for someone new to feel comfortable. It would be nice to see license info, too, as someone new might want to be clear on that right away, too. You can also quickly see a list of supported modules. This shows that it's easy to extend, but also allows someone to see that it can do the thing *they* might be interested in. Sure, perl has CPAN, but I think it would be good to show a list of commonly used modules for mod_perl, and what they do, in a simple list. If someone is just learning about mod_perl (or php) the list doesn't need to be that big, as their needs will be reasonably basic. Existing mod_perl (or php?) programmers might not like all that basic, first-time user stuff right on the home page, and would rather have a more functional site. I don't know about anyone else, but I've got the links I need bookmarked, and if not I go to perl.apache.org and ^F right to where I want to go. BTW -- At first I liked David's idea of using the ASF look. That ties mod_perl to apache well. But, if the site is intended to bring in new users, it might be good to be a bit more flashy. crazy idea Maybe as a community (of programmers not designers) we could hire a professional designer to help develop our brand. Cool web site. Some print ads in the trades. What's a small amount in dues to the Association of Mod_perl Programmers compared to increase of mod_perl work overall? /crazy idea Bill Moseley mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is...
All that makes it really easy for someone new to feel comfortable. And isn't that what the mod_perl site should do? It would be nice to see license info, too, as someone new might want to be clear on that right away, too. You can also quickly see a list of supported modules. This shows that it's easy to extend, but also allows someone to see that it can do the thing *they* might be interested in. Sure, perl has CPAN, but I think it would be good to show a list of commonly used modules for mod_perl, and what they do, in a simple list. If someone is just learning about mod_perl (or php) the list doesn't need to be that big, as their needs will be reasonably basic. The list could give the module authors a chance to write a paragraphs describing what the module does in 50 words or less to new users can get an idea without have to wade into the CPAN pool. crazy idea Maybe as a community (of programmers not designers) we could hire a professional designer to help develop our brand. Cool web site. Some print ads in the trades. What's a small amount in dues to the Association of Mod_perl Programmers compared to increase of mod_perl work overall? /crazy idea I'm all for this. I use mod_perl on a daily basis, but either due to lack of time or lack of knowledge or other reasons I don't get to give back to the community as much as I would like. This is a way for me and others in a situation similar to mine to give back to mod_perl.
[modperl site design challenge] and the winner is...
The mod_perl design contest's voting process took 12 days and is over now. and the winner is # Design by Votes -- 1. Thomas Klausner 86 2. Carlos Ramirez 50 3. Allan Juul 31 -- Total 167 Congratulation to the three winners: Thomas, Carlos and Allan who took the gold, the silver and the bronze medals respectively. All three having very close results. Please stand up for the mod_perl anthem :) Since Thomas' design has won the gold, I suggest that we incorporate the constructive comments (attached) into his design, with David Harris' suggestion to apply on top the colors and some other bits from other ASF sites. Volunteers? Ideally if Thomas, Carlos and Allan could take the best of each other's work and produce the perfect design, that would be very cool. But if not, any real (not talking) contributions to improve the chosen design will help a lot. That's said I suggest that any further discussion on this topic is to be made on the modperl-site list, so not to clutter the modperl users list with unnecessary noise. I've originaly posted here, because I wanted to reach as many caring users as possible. But now those interested in the fate of the site please subscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and let's discuss things there. Finally I want to thank again Thomas, Carlos and Allan for taking their time to figure out how to adjust the templates and design a much better site than we have now; Nat for pushing for the face lift up; Eric for writing and hosting the voting script; And all the mod_perl community for voting and submitting very constructive comments! Thank you! The following are the anonymous comments made by voters, sorted in 3 groups. ## Those in favor of Allan Juul (31/167 votes) said: http://www.apache.org/~stas/site/candidates/allan-juul/ ## few embellishments. simple and easy to read. intermediate levels of navigation should be collapsed, and the entire table of contents should be provided on every page, with an indication of current place. but MUCH preferable to the other designs. - Nice because its not blue or white, and does not have your typical left-side or top navigation. Allocating space for news or other types of blurbs in the left or right might be an idea though. - nice - Very nice and simple - Although Carlos' page is a little flashier, (and I probably would have voted for it) I didn't like the fact that the links at the top of the page ended up blue on blue (on my default netscape browser). - The title page looks a bit sparse. In general, however, Allan's design looks more professional and aesthetic than the others. - Sometimes less is more. - The Allan Juul one looks the best in `links`. So thats my choice. It could use a bigger logo just on the first page, thought. Something which is recognisable and let you think 'Yep, this is the mod_perl site'. - Hi, Actually, I find this one to be the more pleasant, even if there is a lack of efficiency since we can not go back to a main menu once we are in some category (ie, from mailing lists to main page for example). Another point, what does the word sex do in the keywords of each page ? Well, exept that, I do like the design, others are too commons. - Line spacing should be a lot bigger and page should not be as empty, but this is the best-looking design of all three. - All three seem to render (degrade?) nicely in lynx, which (to me) is very important. I find the second design to be nicest, but the third is the most strightfoward, quickest to load, and the simplest to use. - Simple and elegant design. - It's less ugly than the other two. - The most professional looking site of the three. - no fuzz, really nice! - For me, the stylish simplicity of Allan's design wins hands down. Neither of the other two works at all well on Netscape under Linux, a great pity as both of them would otherwise do the job very well. - Nice clean no-nonsense design. Low-key. Good. - Keep it simple ... is the best, if no fancy web-bureau interference Good luck to Allan - great to see the KISS idea is still alive and kicking ;-) - author voting on himself (though he really likes the two other designs) minimum todo's: some styles should be fixed for netscape browser. some agreement should be reached with regard to text-content surrounding html - this to obtain 100% 4.0 html standards, but also to obtain the same look feel across the whole site (and across browesers _and_ platforms). possibly cut down on the toc/top-navigators. possibly add a banner-section at the bottom (?) - Allan's design is clean, concise, and fast, just like mod_perl itself. However, I don't like how some of the links work. It's hard to get back to the home page. Carlos's link
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is...
That's said I suggest that any further discussion on this topic is to be made on the modperl-site list, so not to clutter the modperl users list with unnecessary noise. I've originaly posted here, because I wanted to reach as many caring users as possible. But now those interested in the fate of the site please subscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and let's discuss things there. As it always happens something goes wrong. As David Harris pointed out to me, the modperl-site mailing list alias has gone. So please use [EMAIL PROTECTED] instead. Since the documentation is going to be integrated with the site, it's most likely that the modperl-site alias will point to this list anyway. To post remove -subscribe part (don't mention the real address for anti-spam). http://perl.apache.org/#docs-dev-list Thanks! _ Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is...
Hi! On Tue, Dec 18, 2001 at 10:28:04PM +0800, Stas Bekman wrote: # Design by Votes -- 1. Thomas Klausner 86 yeah! Since Thomas' design has won the gold, I suggest that we incorporate the constructive comments (attached) into his design, with David Harris' suggestion to apply on top the colors and some other bits from other ASF sites. Volunteers? I started it, so I guess I should finish it. Ideally if Thomas, Carlos and Allan could take the best of each other's work and produce the perfect design, that That would be OK for me, Carlos, Allan?? -- D_OMM + http://domm.zsi.at -+ O_xyderkes | neu: Arbeitsplatz | M_echanen | http://domm.zsi.at/d/d162.html | M_asteuei ++
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is...[getting OT]
hello all a few comments from me regarding the competion. first of all a big thank to stas for invoking it. it was quite fun and challenging but also hard work getting the job done (learning TT + doc-set). secondly. thomas (and carlos), congratulations! i liked both your solutions. also thanks to all the voters and their very *useful* comments. i agree with 90% of them and i can tell it is so rewarding getting proper feedback. thanks! thomas. obviously i was dissapointed that my own design didnt win initially, but then i read the feedback from the people on this list and then had a closer look at your suggestion. i must agree it is pretty cool. in fact it is so great that i couldnt resist fiddling with it (i downloaded it from your site). so i have in fact already made a html-suggestion of one of the pages that i can upload if you want to look at it (and anyone else for that matter). it is a allanification of your design i guess, sort of keeping your basic layout and navigation and keeping the look feel og my own suggestion - this way IMO combining the best of those two. but basically im open to any suggestion and prepared to help out if needed ... ./allan Thomas Klausner wrote: Hi! On Tue, Dec 18, 2001 at 10:28:04PM +0800, Stas Bekman wrote: # Design by Votes -- 1. Thomas Klausner 86 yeah! Since Thomas' design has won the gold, I suggest that we incorporate the constructive comments (attached) into his design, with David Harris' suggestion to apply on top the colors and some other bits from other ASF sites. Volunteers? I started it, so I guess I should finish it. Ideally if Thomas, Carlos and Allan could take the best of each other's work and produce the perfect design, that That would be OK for me, Carlos, Allan?? -- D_OMM + http://domm.zsi.at -+ O_xyderkes | neu: Arbeitsplatz | M_echanen | http://domm.zsi.at/d/d162.html | M_asteuei ++
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is...
Thomas Klausner wrote: # Design by Votes -- 1. Thomas Klausner 86 yeah! Congrats Thomas! (and Allan). Ideally if Thomas, Carlos and Allan could take the best of each other's work and produce the perfect design, that That would be OK for me, Carlos, Allan?? I'd be happy to help out in any way. I'd like to join in and thank Stas for setting up the challenge and to those of who you submitted some good comments on my behalf. Overall, I think the contest resulted in something positive. -Carlos
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is...
Hi ALL, I did love the result and I too go by,.. Ideally if Thomas, Carlos and Allan could take the best of each other's work and produce the perfectdesign, I am willing to help you guys,. Congrats Thomas and other participents. With best regards, Anand R [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quoting Carlos Ramirez [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Thomas Klausner wrote: # Design by Votes -- 1. Thomas Klausner 86 yeah! Congrats Thomas! (and Allan). Ideally if Thomas, Carlos and Allan could take the best of each other's work and produce the perfect design, that That would be OK for me, Carlos, Allan?? I'd be happy to help out in any way. I'd like to join in and thank Stas for setting up the challenge and to those of who you submitted some good comments on my behalf. Overall, I think the contest resulted in something positive. -Carlos With Regards, Anand Ratnasabapathy, DSM Soft(P)Ltd, No:25,Nungambakkam High Road, Chennai - 600 034.
