Re: JOB OPENINGS -- INDIANAPOLIS

[Paul J. Lucas]

On Tue, 1 Feb 2000, Mark Jaaneston wrote:

> Still, I don't know if it is appropriate for [EMAIL PROTECTED] to be a 
> forum for recruiting -- what's the consensus on this guys?

Although new to the list, my experience with recruiters is that
they aren't worth the space they occupy.

E-mail lists are cheap: anybody can easily create a
modperl-jobs mailing list.  Those who want to read such things
can subscribe to it; those who don't won't have to wade through
such crap.

- Paul

Re: JOB OPENINGS -- INDIANAPOLIS

[Matt Sergeant]

On Tue, 01 Feb 2000, Mark Jaaneston wrote:
> My apologies to you, Josh, you are one of the good guys.
> 
> Still, I don't know if it is appropriate for [EMAIL PROTECTED] to be a 
> forum for recruiting -- what's the consensus on this guys?

Please, this has been discussed so many times before. If you're new check
the archives. The consensus on this is not going to change.

-- 


Details: FastNet Software Ltd - XML, Perl, Databases.
Tagline: High Performance Web Solutions
Web Sites: http://come.to/fastnet http://sergeant.org
Available for Consultancy, Contracts and Training.

RE: JOB OPENINGS -- INDIANAPOLIS

[Mark Jaaneston]

Fair enough, sorry for the throat-biting, everybody.

Let me just say:
1) Ask the recruiter what they are charging the company you will be working 
for (the bill rate).  If they don't want to give it to you, your butt is 
being humped.  Find another recruiter.
2) VERIFY this with the company you will be working for.  Get the recruiter 
to give permission to the company's accounting department.  Ask them to see 
an invoice.
3) The most they should be taking is 25%.  You can even negociate a sliding 
scale, getting lower over time.  It should always be at most 25% or find a 
different recruiter.
4) Everything is a negotiation.  The recruiters are negotiating for themselves.

BTW, #1 and #2 are from the Contract Employee's handbook, at 
www.cehandbook.com.  A lot of good techniques there for finding your own 
contracts, how to wrassle the recruiters in line, etc.

The NACCB that TechPro talks about has a fuzzy list of policies and doesn't 
seem to be as good to the consultants as it could be.  First, the NACCB has 
been criticized here:  http://rmpcp.com/naacbmem.html
and more importantly, their list of policies does not specifically state 
how people won't get screwed, ie, they will disclose the pay and bill rates 
and markups to everybody, which is one of the things the CEHandbook says to 
insist on.

Finally: Group apology.  My above How-to-deal-with-recruiters posting may 
approach spam for mod_perl, but since recruiters have just waved their 
flags in here, and that I have this dream of the battle-grizzled 
consultants (like myself) helping out the newbies at risk whereever in the 
internet they may be, I hope I (and others) can post these few 
things.  Think of it as the ex-cheerleader warning the new cheerleaders 
about the coach and the rides home from the parties.

MJ


At 04:58 PM 2/1/00 +0100, Eric Cholet wrote:
>Mark,
>
>modperl job offers have always been welcome on the modperl list.
>Please search the archives and you'll find this fact.
>
>Cheers,
>--
>Eric

At 10:11 AM 2/1/00 -0600, you wrote:
>Mark:
>
>I'd like to try to say something to make you feel better, but I know it's
>probably not possible.
>
>As recruiters, we, too, deal with other recruiting agencies and they are not
>always ethical.  Just so you and others know, it is in the contractors best
>interest to work for an agency that is a member of the NACCB (National
>Association of Computer Consulting Businesses).  Member agencies must meet
>and abide by certain standards.  See the attached link.
>
>http://www.naccb.org/about/principles1.html
>
>
>I'm not trying to sell anyone on Tech-Pro, but we are a member firm.
>
>I apologize if I've offended anyone with my posting.  I will not contact
>anyone without their permission.  I belong to a similar group at my home
>email address and I know sometimes minor issues can cause a lot of wasted
>time and grief.  That was not my intent.  That's why the reference indicated
>it was a job posting - if not interested, just delete it.  Once again, I
>apologize if I've offended anyone.
>
>
>Bobbi Short
>
>Tech-Pro, Inc.
>8041 Knue Road
>Indianapolis, IN 46250
>Main:   (317) 577-4840
>Fax:  (317) 845-0389
>Toll Free:   (877) 874-5627
>
>Office locations in Indianapolis, Denver, the Twin Cities, and Phoenix
>email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>www.tech-pro.com
>
>Tech-Pro, Inc. is member of the National Association of Computer Consulting
>Businesses (NACCB).



> > hi,
> >
> > i'm not a recruiter, im hiring directly for the company i work for, 
> which, by
> > the way, has put a lot of time and support into helping with mod_perl
> > development.
> >
> > josh
> >
> > Mark Jaaneston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> > > Is this a forum where recruiters can spam for new business?  I am new 
> here
> > > - is the any penalty for these guys?  At the very least, I'd like to 
> post
> > > references to anti-recruiter job sites.  Guys, you can avoid these
> > > blood-sucking leeches and get contract and permanent work without having
> > > 30-60% of your earning potential stolen from you because they once 
> happened
> > > to know somebody that you didn't.
> > >
> > > Yea, I hate recruiters.  Got burned twice, the second by a company that
> > > swore up and down they were honest, and they were, for the first 
> contract.
> > >
> > > Whoops...  Sorry, I get a little upset about being raped twice.   Do we
> > > discourage this type of spam?
> > >
> > > MJ.
> > >
> > >
> > > At 07:24 AM 2/1/00 -0600, Bobbi Short wrote:
> > > >Hello.  I am a Recruiter with Tech-Pro, Inc.  Tech-Pro is a computer
> > > >consulting services company with offices in Indianapolis, Indiana;
> > > >Minneapolis, Minnesota; Denver, Colorado; and Phoenix, Arizona.  We 
> provide
> > > >experienced computer professionals on a contract basis.  Our consulting
> > > >staff consists of salaried, hourly and independent contractors.
> > > >
> > > >We have immediate opportunities available for mod_perl architect

anti-recruiter Re: JOB OPENINGS -- INDIANAPOLIS

[Craig W. Shaver]

Richard Dice wrote:

> 
> > Mark Jaaneston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> > > Is this a forum where recruiters can spam for new business?  I am
> > > new here - is the any penalty for these guys?  At the very least, I'd
> > > like to post references to anti-recruiter job sites.  

Caveat emptor

Could you please post the references or email me direct?

I am an independent contractor in the Sunnyvale, CA area.  I do not mind
the job posts, so long as they don't take over the list.  But I only go
direct.  I am always interested in finding new prospects, and I would
love to see what you have that helps you find jobs.

Thanks,

> > >
> > > Yea, I hate recruiters.  Got burned twice, the second by a company that
> > > swore up and down they were honest, and they were, for the first
> > > contract.
> > >
> > > Whoops...  Sorry, I get a little upset about being raped twice.   Do we
> > > discourage this type of spam?
> > >
> > > MJ.
> 
> I'm very sorry to hear that you were treated poorly in the past.
> I've been unimpressed by recruiters in the past as well, and as such


-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (408)543-6451
Craig Shaver, Productivity Group
POB 60458 Sunnyvale, CA  94088 (650)390-0654
http://www.progroup.com/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: JOB OPENINGS -- INDIANAPOLIS

[Ask Bjoern Hansen]

On Tue, 1 Feb 2000, Mark Jaaneston wrote:

> Still, I don't know if it is appropriate for [EMAIL PROTECTED] to be a 
> forum for recruiting -- what's the consensus on this guys?

mod_perl relevant job postings has always been welcome on this list.


 - ask

-- 
ask bjoern hansen - 
more than 60M impressions per day, 

RE: JOB OPENINGS -- INDIANAPOLIS

[Baiju Thakkar]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
> Behalf Of Mark Jaaneston
> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 10:46 AM
> To: josh rotenberg
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Bobbi Short
> Subject: Re: JOB OPENINGS -- INDIANAPOLIS
> 
> 
> My apologies to you, Josh, you are one of the good guys.
> 
> Still, I don't know if it is appropriate for 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] to be a 
> forum for recruiting -- what's the consensus on this guys?
> 

Same as it was last time this was discussed. Job postings
are welcomed. Read the archive to get the gory details.

---
Baiju Thakkar
http://www.perlmonth.comhttp://www.linuxmonth.com
Just use Perl;  #!/boot/linux
 

Re: JOB OPENINGS -- INDIANAPOLIS

[Mark Jaaneston]

My apologies to you, Josh, you are one of the good guys.

Still, I don't know if it is appropriate for [EMAIL PROTECTED] to be a 
forum for recruiting -- what's the consensus on this guys?

MJ

At 07:41 AM 2/1/00 -0800, josh rotenberg wrote:
>hi,
>
>i'm not a recruiter, im hiring directly for the company i work for, which, by
>the way, has put a lot of time and support into helping with mod_perl
>development.
>
>josh
>
>Mark Jaaneston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> > Is this a forum where recruiters can spam for new business?  I am new here
> > - is the any penalty for these guys?  At the very least, I'd like to post
> > references to anti-recruiter job sites.  Guys, you can avoid these
> > blood-sucking leeches and get contract and permanent work without having
> > 30-60% of your earning potential stolen from you because they once 
> happened
> > to know somebody that you didn't.
> >
> > Yea, I hate recruiters.  Got burned twice, the second by a company that
> > swore up and down they were honest, and they were, for the first contract.
> >
> > Whoops...  Sorry, I get a little upset about being raped twice.   Do we
> > discourage this type of spam?
> >
> > MJ.
> >
> >
> > At 07:24 AM 2/1/00 -0600, Bobbi Short wrote:
> > >Hello.  I am a Recruiter with Tech-Pro, Inc.  Tech-Pro is a computer
> > >consulting services company with offices in Indianapolis, Indiana;
> > >Minneapolis, Minnesota; Denver, Colorado; and Phoenix, Arizona.  We 
> provide
> > >experienced computer professionals on a contract basis.  Our consulting
> > >staff consists of salaried, hourly and independent contractors.
> > >
> > >We have immediate opportunities available for mod_perl architects in the
> > >Indianapolis area.  Ideally, these are contract to hire opportunities 
> with a
> > >very large, well known and respected national company.  However, for the
> > >right candidate, the company is willing to do contract only.  If you are
> > >interested in learning more about these opportunities, please email me 
> your
> > >resume.  Be sure to include your phone number and the best time of day to
> > >reach you.
> > >
> > >Thanks for responding.  I look forward to hearing from you soon.
> > >
> > >To learn more about Tech-Pro, please visit our web site at 
> www.tech-pro.com
> > > .
> > >
> > >Bobbi Short
> > >
> > >Tech-Pro, Inc.
> > >8041 Knue Road
> > >Indianapolis, IN 46250
> > >Main:   (317) 577-4840
> > >Fax:  (317) 845-0389
> > >
> > >Office locations in Indianapolis, Denver, the Twin Cities, and Phoenix
> > >email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >www.tech-pro.com
> > >
> > >Tech-Pro, Inc. is member of the National Association of Computer 
> Consulting
> > >Businesses (NACCB).
> >
> > --
> > At 07:23 AM 2/1/00 -0800, Josh rotenberg wrote:
> >
> > >hi,
> > >
> > >
> > >i am looking for one or two short to medium term contractors to work on a
> > >fairly large scale mod_perl application.  the qualified applicant will 
> be able
> > >to work in-house (south of market in san francisco) at least most of 
> the time,
> > >and be available on a somewhat regular schedule (9-5, 10-6, whatever).
> > >
> > >in addition to being a perl master and mod_perl ninja, the qualified 
> applicant
> > >would also have a firm knowledge of product localization. 
> specifically, i need
> > >people with experience in developing applications that support asian
> > >languages, so knowledge of asian language encodings is important.
> > >
> > >the contract will most likely be 3-4 months, full time, with
> > >the distinct possibility of a longer contract or full-time
> > >employment later on.
> > >
> > >again, qualifications:
> > >
> > >* excellent perl skills, OO design and implementation
> > >* demonstrated proficiency with mod_perl and apache
> > >* solaris and linux experience a must
> > >* knowledge of doublebyte character encoding and product localization
> > >* firm grasp of MIME and some of the mail RFCs
> > >* knowledge of cvs, rpm
> > >* ability to work independently, on tight schedules
> > >* ability to communicate effectively with those less technical
> > >* ability to work in-house in san francisco
> > >* ability to wrap c/c++ with xs is a big plus
> > >* database stuff is a big plus
> > >* C apache module experience a plus
> > >
> > >please send resumes (text/plain or text/html preferred) to
> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> > >thanks,
> > >
> > >josh
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >josh rotenberg
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > www.parasite.com
> >
> > -
> > Kenneth Frankel
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>--
>josh rotenberg
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.parasite.com
Once upon a time you wrote ...
-
Kenneth Frankel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: JOB OPENINGS -- INDIANAPOLIS

[Eric Cholet]

Mark,

modperl job offers have always been welcome on the modperl list.
Please search the archives and you'll find this fact.

Cheers,
--
Eric


> hi, 
> 
> i'm not a recruiter, im hiring directly for the company i work for, which, by
> the way, has put a lot of time and support into helping with mod_perl
> development.
> 
> josh
> 
> Mark Jaaneston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> > Is this a forum where recruiters can spam for new business?  I am new here 
> > - is the any penalty for these guys?  At the very least, I'd like to post 
> > references to anti-recruiter job sites.  Guys, you can avoid these 
> > blood-sucking leeches and get contract and permanent work without having 
> > 30-60% of your earning potential stolen from you because they once happened 
> > to know somebody that you didn't.
> > 
> > Yea, I hate recruiters.  Got burned twice, the second by a company that 
> > swore up and down they were honest, and they were, for the first contract.
> > 
> > Whoops...  Sorry, I get a little upset about being raped twice.   Do we 
> > discourage this type of spam?
> > 
> > MJ.
> > 
> > 
> > At 07:24 AM 2/1/00 -0600, Bobbi Short wrote:
> > >Hello.  I am a Recruiter with Tech-Pro, Inc.  Tech-Pro is a computer
> > >consulting services company with offices in Indianapolis, Indiana;
> > >Minneapolis, Minnesota; Denver, Colorado; and Phoenix, Arizona.  We provide
> > >experienced computer professionals on a contract basis.  Our consulting
> > >staff consists of salaried, hourly and independent contractors.
> > >
> > >We have immediate opportunities available for mod_perl architects in the
> > >Indianapolis area.  Ideally, these are contract to hire opportunities with a
> > >very large, well known and respected national company.  However, for the
> > >right candidate, the company is willing to do contract only.  If you are
> > >interested in learning more about these opportunities, please email me your
> > >resume.  Be sure to include your phone number and the best time of day to
> > >reach you.
> > >
> > >Thanks for responding.  I look forward to hearing from you soon.
> > >
> > >To learn more about Tech-Pro, please visit our web site at www.tech-pro.com
> > > .
> > >
> > >Bobbi Short
> > >
> > >Tech-Pro, Inc.
> > >8041 Knue Road
> > >Indianapolis, IN 46250
> > >Main:   (317) 577-4840
> > >Fax:  (317) 845-0389
> > >
> > >Office locations in Indianapolis, Denver, the Twin Cities, and Phoenix
> > >email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >www.tech-pro.com
> > >
> > >Tech-Pro, Inc. is member of the National Association of Computer Consulting
> > >Businesses (NACCB).
> > 
> > --
> > At 07:23 AM 2/1/00 -0800, Josh rotenberg wrote:
> > 
> > >hi,
> > >
> > >
> > >i am looking for one or two short to medium term contractors to work on a
> > >fairly large scale mod_perl application.  the qualified applicant will be able
> > >to work in-house (south of market in san francisco) at least most of the time,
> > >and be available on a somewhat regular schedule (9-5, 10-6, whatever).
> > >
> > >in addition to being a perl master and mod_perl ninja, the qualified applicant
> > >would also have a firm knowledge of product localization. specifically, i need
> > >people with experience in developing applications that support asian
> > >languages, so knowledge of asian language encodings is important.
> > >
> > >the contract will most likely be 3-4 months, full time, with
> > >the distinct possibility of a longer contract or full-time
> > >employment later on.
> > >
> > >again, qualifications:
> > >
> > >* excellent perl skills, OO design and implementation
> > >* demonstrated proficiency with mod_perl and apache
> > >* solaris and linux experience a must
> > >* knowledge of doublebyte character encoding and product localization
> > >* firm grasp of MIME and some of the mail RFCs
> > >* knowledge of cvs, rpm
> > >* ability to work independently, on tight schedules
> > >* ability to communicate effectively with those less technical
> > >* ability to work in-house in san francisco
> > >* ability to wrap c/c++ with xs is a big plus
> > >* database stuff is a big plus
> > >* C apache module experience a plus
> > >
> > >please send resumes (text/plain or text/html preferred) to
> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> > >thanks,
> > >
> > >josh
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >josh rotenberg
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > www.parasite.com
> > 
> > -
> > Kenneth Frankel
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> -- 
> josh rotenberg
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>   www.parasite.com
> 

Re: JOB OPENINGS -- INDIANAPOLIS

[Richard Dice]

Seeing as how I might be the first person on watch today (it's only 
1/4 to 11am EST, after all...), I'll field this... 

> Mark Jaaneston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> > Is this a forum where recruiters can spam for new business?  I am 
> > new here - is the any penalty for these guys?  At the very least, I'd
> > like to post references to anti-recruiter job sites.  Guys, you can
> > avoid these blood-sucking leeches and get contract and permanent work
> > without having 30-60% of your earning potential stolen from you because
> > they once happened to know somebody that you didn't.
> >
> > Yea, I hate recruiters.  Got burned twice, the second by a company that
> > swore up and down they were honest, and they were, for the first
> > contract.
> >
> > Whoops...  Sorry, I get a little upset about being raped twice.   Do we
> > discourage this type of spam?
> >
> > MJ.

I'm very sorry to hear that you were treated poorly in the past.  
I've been unimpressed by recruiters in the past as well, and as such
I tend to be very discriminating about such things.

However, no, we don't discourage this type of email. (It doesn't
even qualify as "spam" 'round these parts)  As Doug MacEachern, mod_perl
creator and "list owner", explained to me once, he is (or at least, 
has been) an independent contractor himself, and so he appreciates that
a number of people on this list could benefit from seeing this kind
of information posted here.  And information for the benefit of the
people on this list is what this list is all about, whatever form 
it may take.

Cheers,
Richard

-
 Richard Dice * Personal 514 816 9568 * Fax 514 816 9569
 Open Source Evangelist, HBE Software * http://www.hbesoftware.com
 ShadNet Creator * http://shadnet.shad.ca/ * [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Occasional Writer, HotWired * http://www.hotwired.com/webmonkey/
 "squeeze the world 'til it's small enough to join us heel to toe"
 - jesus jones

Re: JOB OPENINGS -- INDIANAPOLIS

[josh rotenberg]

hi, 

i'm not a recruiter, im hiring directly for the company i work for, which, by
the way, has put a lot of time and support into helping with mod_perl
development.

josh

Mark Jaaneston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> Is this a forum where recruiters can spam for new business?  I am new here 
> - is the any penalty for these guys?  At the very least, I'd like to post 
> references to anti-recruiter job sites.  Guys, you can avoid these 
> blood-sucking leeches and get contract and permanent work without having 
> 30-60% of your earning potential stolen from you because they once happened 
> to know somebody that you didn't.
> 
> Yea, I hate recruiters.  Got burned twice, the second by a company that 
> swore up and down they were honest, and they were, for the first contract.
> 
> Whoops...  Sorry, I get a little upset about being raped twice.   Do we 
> discourage this type of spam?
> 
> MJ.
> 
> 
> At 07:24 AM 2/1/00 -0600, Bobbi Short wrote:
> >Hello.  I am a Recruiter with Tech-Pro, Inc.  Tech-Pro is a computer
> >consulting services company with offices in Indianapolis, Indiana;
> >Minneapolis, Minnesota; Denver, Colorado; and Phoenix, Arizona.  We provide
> >experienced computer professionals on a contract basis.  Our consulting
> >staff consists of salaried, hourly and independent contractors.
> >
> >We have immediate opportunities available for mod_perl architects in the
> >Indianapolis area.  Ideally, these are contract to hire opportunities with a
> >very large, well known and respected national company.  However, for the
> >right candidate, the company is willing to do contract only.  If you are
> >interested in learning more about these opportunities, please email me your
> >resume.  Be sure to include your phone number and the best time of day to
> >reach you.
> >
> >Thanks for responding.  I look forward to hearing from you soon.
> >
> >To learn more about Tech-Pro, please visit our web site at www.tech-pro.com
> > .
> >
> >Bobbi Short
> >
> >Tech-Pro, Inc.
> >8041 Knue Road
> >Indianapolis, IN 46250
> >Main:   (317) 577-4840
> >Fax:  (317) 845-0389
> >
> >Office locations in Indianapolis, Denver, the Twin Cities, and Phoenix
> >email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >www.tech-pro.com
> >
> >Tech-Pro, Inc. is member of the National Association of Computer Consulting
> >Businesses (NACCB).
> 
> --
> At 07:23 AM 2/1/00 -0800, Josh rotenberg wrote:
> 
> >hi,
> >
> >
> >i am looking for one or two short to medium term contractors to work on a
> >fairly large scale mod_perl application.  the qualified applicant will be able
> >to work in-house (south of market in san francisco) at least most of the time,
> >and be available on a somewhat regular schedule (9-5, 10-6, whatever).
> >
> >in addition to being a perl master and mod_perl ninja, the qualified applicant
> >would also have a firm knowledge of product localization. specifically, i need
> >people with experience in developing applications that support asian
> >languages, so knowledge of asian language encodings is important.
> >
> >the contract will most likely be 3-4 months, full time, with
> >the distinct possibility of a longer contract or full-time
> >employment later on.
> >
> >again, qualifications:
> >
> >* excellent perl skills, OO design and implementation
> >* demonstrated proficiency with mod_perl and apache
> >* solaris and linux experience a must
> >* knowledge of doublebyte character encoding and product localization
> >* firm grasp of MIME and some of the mail RFCs
> >* knowledge of cvs, rpm
> >* ability to work independently, on tight schedules
> >* ability to communicate effectively with those less technical
> >* ability to work in-house in san francisco
> >* ability to wrap c/c++ with xs is a big plus
> >* database stuff is a big plus
> >* C apache module experience a plus
> >
> >please send resumes (text/plain or text/html preferred) to
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >thanks,
> >
> >josh
> >
> >
> >--
> >josh rotenberg
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > www.parasite.com
> 
> -
> Kenneth Frankel
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
josh rotenberg
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
www.parasite.com