Re: modperl success story
Barb and Tim wrote: full honesty. The language itself is hard enough to swallow. How is Perl hard to swallow? Perl is so easy and flexible. Stephen
Re: modperl success story
On Fri, 14 Jan 2000, Barb and Tim wrote: It could really enhance your integrity if you also presented honest evaluations of the downsides of Perl. The promotion of Perl on this site is so ubiquitous and one sided, and Perl has such a bad reputation in many ways, that somebody like me has a hard time swallowing the sunny prognostications and finally diving in, unless I see full honesty. The language itself is hard enough to swallow. This is not an advocacy group. Problems with mod_perl and (more rarely) perl (the standard imlementation) and Perl (the language as an abstract definition) do show up here, if you wait long enough. This group is for people who are trying to implement, use and improve mod_perl. I think you'll find that many of the people on the list have gone through some exhaustive searching BEFORE stumbling upon mod_perl. Many, if not most, have significant backgrounds in many other development (web and other) systems and languages. I like perl, Perl, and mod_perl. I think most of the people on this list do, as well. You're not likely to get a bunch of apologies for that. If you don't like something about any of the 3 parts, please try and help fix it. Or just find something else that you do like. Perhaps you'll find that other systems are better suited to what you do. Perhaps not, and you'll end up back here again. I'm sure that would be fine with anyone on the list. -- -- Tom Mornini -- InfoMania Printing and Prepress
Re: modperl success story
So, present us all with a detailed analysis of all Perl's failings and
its bad reputation compaired the competition, so that we may see the
light and turn to the true path. Until then we'll all stagger along
happily in the darkness.
Even better, write your own language like Larry did and see how many
disciples you attract.
Rod Butcher
Barb and Tim wrote:
It could really enhance your integrity if you also
presented honest evaluations of the downsides of Perl.
The promotion of Perl on this site is so ubiquitous and
one sided, and Perl has such a bad reputation in many ways,
that somebody like me has a hard time swallowing the sunny
prognostications and finally diving in, unless I see
full honesty. The language itself is hard enough to swallow.
Just a suggestion.
--
Rod Butcher | "... I gaze at the beauty of the world,
Hyena Holdings Internet | its wonders and its miracles and out of
Programming | sheer joy I laugh even as the day laughs.
("it's us or the vultures") | And then the people of the jungle say,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | 'It is but the laughter of a hyena'".
|Kahlil Gibran.. The Wanderer
Re: modperl success story
It could really enhance your integrity if you also presented honest evaluations of the downsides of Perl. The promotion of Perl on this site is so ubiquitous and one sided, and Perl has such a bad reputation in many ways, that somebody like me has a hard time swallowing the sunny prognostications and finally diving in, unless I see full honesty. The language itself is hard enough to swallow. Just a suggestion. You are not the first to say this, we've discussed this already, no need to do this again. Adam Pisoni has summarized this thread in his wonderful "Popular Perl Complaints and Myths" document. Please read it at: http://perl.apache.org/perl_myth.html Please move the thread to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Have a nice Perl :) ___ Stas Bekmanmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stason.org/stas Perl,CGI,Apache,Linux,Web,Java,PC http://www.stason.org/stas/TULARC perl.apache.orgmodperl.sourcegarden.org perlmonth.comperl.org single o- + single o-+ = singlesheavenhttp://www.singlesheaven.com
Re: modperl success story
Barb and Tim wrote: It could really enhance your integrity if you also presented honest evaluations of the downsides of Perl. WHy don't you start. -jwb
Re: modperl success story
According to Barb and Tim: It could really enhance your integrity if you also presented honest evaluations of the downsides of Perl. Perl has two downsides. One is the start-up time for the program and mod_perl solves this for web pages. The promotion of Perl on this site is so ubiquitous and one sided, and Perl has such a bad reputation in many ways, that somebody like me has a hard time swallowing the sunny prognostications and finally diving in, unless I see full honesty. The language itself is hard enough to swallow. Just a suggestion. The other down side is that it is fast and easy to write working programs that are difficult for someone else to understand. That is, it accepts an individual's style instead of forcing something universal. I guess everyone here is willing to accept that tradeoff. Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: modperl success story
The troll vanisheth! - Transcript of session follows - ... while talking to mc5.law5.hotmail.com.: RCPT To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 550 Requested action not taken:user account inactive 550 [EMAIL PROTECTED]... User unknown
Re: modperl success story
The troll vanisheth! ha! Reminds me of the Zen story of an old fisherman in a boat on a lake in a heavy can't see your hands fog. He bumps into another boat, and shouts at the other guy, "Look where you're going would you! You almost knocked me over." He pulls up beside the boat and is about to give the other guy a piece of his mind, but when he looks in the other boat, he discovers that no one else is there. Flame trolls on mailing lists are virtual empty boats, whose only value is the sometimes humorous apoplexy elicited in the old sea salts on the list. Ed
Re: modperl success story
On Fri, 14 Jan 2000, Barb and Tim wrote: It could really enhance your integrity if you also presented honest evaluations of the downsides of Perl. The promotion of Perl on this site is so ubiquitous and one sided, and Perl has such a bad reputation in many ways, that somebody like me has a hard time swallowing the sunny prognostications and finally diving in, unless I see full honesty. The language itself is hard enough to swallow. Just a suggestion. I would venture to suggest that the problems of mod_perl are as follows: - Non-trivial to build and install (judging by the number of questions here regarding problems in this area - not by personal experience). - Still some wierd bugs. - A number of special considerations have to be made when building your program, such as taking care of persistent variables, etc. - All of perl's irritations (and there are quite a few - like the definition of truth). - Documentation still isn't fantastic - although the guide has made great inroads into changing that, and the book is awsome. - Some modules are still a bit cryptic (e.g. some people expect things like Apache::Session to do everything for them, whereas it's really a session management toolkit). - mod_perl is still really in its infancy, and hasn't taken off as fast as other systems such as php and Zope. I think this is due to the complexity issues outlined above, and the fact that ISP's don't like mod_perl. - Oh yeah - and mod_perl uses lots of RAM. That's probably the main reason ISP's don't like it. -- Matt/ Details: FastNet Software Ltd - XML, Perl, Databases. Tagline: High Performance Web Solutions Web Sites: http://come.to/fastnet http://sergeant.org Available for Consultancy, Contracts and Training.
Re: modperl success story
On Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 12:34:00PM -0800, Ed Phillips wrote: The troll vanisheth! ha! Reminds me of the Zen story of an old fisherman in a boat on a lake in a heavy can't see your hands fog. He bumps into another boat, and shouts at the other guy, "Look where you're going would you! You almost knocked me over." He pulls up beside the boat and is about to give the other guy a piece of his mind, but when he looks in the other boat, he discovers that no one else is there. Flame trolls on mailing lists are virtual empty boats, whose only value is the sometimes humorous apoplexy elicited in the old sea salts on the list. Wow, what a story. But poor man probably just didn't realize that this list is not for sucess stories sharing. But for problems discussion :) Andrei --
Re: modperl success story
Hey, aren't we decided to use the advocacy list for this kind of threads? You are funny folks, when you don't want us to discuss something here, you tell go talk about this somewhere else, so we did. Please follow your own suggestions. This current thread was split into 2, one discussed here and the other at the proper "advocacy" list! The subscribing info is: A new mailing list for mod_perl advocacy issues, discussions about site and etc. Subscribe by sending a mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] The list address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] The archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/advocacy%40perl.apache.org/ Thank you very much! ___ Stas Bekmanmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stason.org/stas Perl,CGI,Apache,Linux,Web,Java,PC http://www.stason.org/stas/TULARC perl.apache.orgmodperl.sourcegarden.org perlmonth.comperl.org single o- + single o-+ = singlesheavenhttp://www.singlesheaven.com
