[Agenda] Team management and Project tracking - Success Story
Hello! We just finished writing first version of our system Agenda - http://agenda.samara.net. First of all I want to say about our framework - Apache::Site, which we used in all our current projects (about 20). If you don't interested just skip to next paragraph. http://agenda.samara.net/Apache-Site.pm It provides Framework for Template::Toolkit modules... Combination of Apache::Site and Temlate::Toolkit is more powerful and flexible for us than any other solutions on this page http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2001/08/21/templating.html?page=4 Module parses URI, determine handler from it, has a caching capabilities... In short word, it is our template for mod_perl handler, which works with Template::Toolkit. We wrote about this module here, but didn't recieve any responses... I think lack of documentation is a problem... or my gruesome english :) Let's come back to Agenda... It is pure model-view-controller application. There are Agenda.pm - Template::Toolkit - Apache::Agenda.pm modules - therefore Agenda is very flexible. It works on Linux box now. It has a multi-language kernel. It has 2 languages now - english russian, but we didn't write english Help yet :( Translation to other language or correcting of interface may be performed from the same WEB interface. It is in production for my studio (http://www.webzavod.ru/) during 2 months. Productivity rised greatly, president of our companies is happy - he gets reports when he wants, I'm happy - I do not write these reports. And delicate topic... Our chief wants to sell this application... Strange! :)) Price is $590 for one installation and unlimited licenses now, but it requires Oracle now - we want to migrate the application to free database (mySQL). Writing complex systems with powerful databases such Oracle is much simpler on developer stage. MSProject 2002 with comparable functionality (I saw MS Project - we provide all basic functionality, I dont know what I need else from Agenda now) but better interface :) will costs for our company (50 employees) --- MSProject Server 2002 - $1500 + 50*$599 for Microsoft Project Standart = $31500, or MSProject Server 2002 - $1500 + 50*$170 for Web Access Licenses = $1 + price for required MS SQL Server $1500 minimum or $11000 maximum I want to contribute my work to Open Source Community, but it breaks my company policy :-/ I have a right to pass sources with my gratitude for free to contributors of technologies we used (for own usage) - Apache, Perl, mod_perl, DBI, DBD::mysql, Template::Toolkit, Apache::ASP (we used it early), AxKit... Sorry if forget someone. May these people advise how to separate free version of the system for Open Source Community and not much harm sales of the system? PS: We're redesigning the interface just now. Some pages are different from each other :) Sergey Polyakov aka BeerBong Chief of WebZavod http://www.webzavod.ru Tel. +7 (8462) 43-93-85 | +7 (8462) 43-93-86 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Agenda] Team management and Project tracking - Success Story
First of all I want to say about our framework - Apache::Site, which we used in all our current projects (about 20). If you don't interested just skip to next paragraph. http://agenda.samara.net/Apache-Site.pm Did you actually release Apache::Site on CPAN? Couldn't find it there. We did not release it on CPAN. We announced it in mod_perl list first and wanted to get offers for naming the Module (Apache::Site sounds too much pretentious :) ). We consider that code is not good as possible and thought gurus will point to weak parts of code. After all, gurus can say - it is comletely useless module, because there are better solutions and ... bla bla bla... :) We don't want to publish JustAnotherSillyApacheFramework :) And another, main trouble - permanent lack of time for documenting :(( Let's come back to Agenda... It is pure model-view-controller application. There are Agenda.pm - Template::Toolkit - Apache::Agenda.pm modules - therefore Agenda is very flexible. It works on Linux box now. It has a multi-language kernel. It has 2 languages now - english russian, but we didn't write english Help yet :( Translation to other language or correcting of interface may be performed from the same WEB interface. It is in production for my studio (http://www.webzavod.ru/) during 2 months. Productivity rised greatly, president of our companies is happy - he gets reports when he wants, I'm happy - I do not write these reports. This looks quite interesting. The company I work for is constantly looking for some useable workflow-, ressource- and processmananagement, erm. whatever you call it :) And delicate topic... Our chief wants to sell this application... Strange! :)) Price is $590 for one installation and unlimited licenses now, but it requires Oracle now - we want to migrate the application to free database (mySQL). Writing complex systems with powerful databases such Oracle is much simpler on developer stage. I think the price is reasonable - but the requirment of an oracle installation isn't really a good point for us. :) Btw, I would beg you to give PostgreSQL a shot before you port Agenda to MySQL, as PostgreSQL is far nearer - in terms of features and warm fuzzy feelings - to Oracle as MySQL is (I don't want to get into advocacy here, but I wouldn't say that MySQL is a RDMBS at all). Agreed, realization of all business logic outside database is real PITA, just mySQL is more popular... PS: Forgot to say that there is another way - Application Service Providing. Just now 3 independent system works on http://agenda.samara.net - Demo Russian, Demo English and Production version of Company... It should be mch cheaper, but there is another bottleneck - not all companies will agree to post payments for projects and other confidential information to Application which hosted somewhere in snowy Russia with bears on the streets : Sergey Polyakov aka BeerBong Chief of WebZavod http://www.webzavod.ru Tel. +7 (8462) 43-93-85 | +7 (8462) 43-93-86 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] eToys Jingle (was: Where was that success story?)
And further still into OT land, Israel is a pretty popular Hawaiian artist. Too bad he does not get play on the mainland. Ian On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Tom Servo wrote: What I really want to know is: what ever happened to that eToys jingle that was on the commercials? It was almost as good as the site. My children were all under 7 when the site folded, so those commercials and that jingle REALLY pulled the heart strings. Heh, used to work there. Song was: Somewhere Over the Rainbow/What a Wonderful World by Israel Kamakawiwo'ole on the album Facing Future Enjoy. Brian Nilsen
Where was that success story?
Can someone forward me a URL to the perl/mod-perl success story (from about 6 months ago) that was about some people that went in and re-wrote someones web application and made it run incredably faster in a very short time, but in the end the customer threw it out and went for a competing technology. I can't remember enough of the article to be able to even search for it. I can't find it (easily... on www.perl.org under success stories, or at use.perl.org either) But I'm sure someone will remember what I'm talking about. TIA Fulko --- Fulko Hew, Voice: 905-681-5570 Lead Designer - Management Tools,Fax:905-681-5556 SITA (Burlington)Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 777 Walkers Line, Burlington, Ontario, Canada, L7N 2G1
Re: Where was that success story?
Fulko Hew wrote: Can someone forward me a URL to the perl/mod-perl success story (from about 6 months ago) that was about some people that went in and re-wrote someones web application and made it run incredably faster in a very short time, but in the end the customer threw it out and went for a competing technology. I can't remember enough of the article to be able to even search for it. I can't find it (easily... on www.perl.org under success stories, or at use.perl.org either) But I'm sure someone will remember what I'm talking about. If it was posted here use the archives to find it http://perl.apache.org/#users-list Most likely it's linked from http://perl.apache.org/stories/ if not and you find the original post, forward it to me and I'll link to it. there are a few stories that were submitted to me but don't appear yet on the current site. They will appear on the new site when that gets released. _ Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: Where was that success story?
Fulko Hew wrote: Can someone forward me a URL to the perl/mod-perl success story (from about 6 months ago) that was about some people that went in and re-wrote someones web application and made it run incredably faster in a very short time, but in the end the customer threw it out and went for a competing technology. I can't remember enough of the article to be able to even search for it. I can't find it (easily... on www.perl.org under success stories, or at use.perl.org either) But I'm sure someone will remember what I'm talking about. If it was posted here use the archives to find it http://perl.apache.org/#users-list Most likely it's linked from http://perl.apache.org/stories/ if not and you find the original post, forward it to me and I'll link to it. there are a few stories that were submitted to me but don't appear yet on the current site. They will appear on the new site when that gets released. It was a major 2 web page article, and I'd sware I read it on one of the usual Perlish web sites. I'd sware it was about Amazon, or eBay, or some company like that and had some well known names as part of the project. Hang on. I just found it (by way of Slashdot)... it was about eToys, October 17, 2001, its web 5 pages long, and mentions Randal Schwartz and Damian Conway. I knew I wasn't dreamming! Anyway the URL is: http://perl.com/pub/a/2001/10/17/etoys.html --- Fulko Hew, Voice: 905-681-5570 Lead Designer - Management Tools,Fax:905-681-5556 SITA (Burlington)Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 777 Walkers Line, Burlington, Ontario, Canada, L7N 2G1
Re: Where was that success story?
Fulko Hew wrote: Hang on. I just found it (by way of Slashdot)... it was about eToys, October 17, 2001, its web 5 pages long, and mentions Randal Schwartz and Damian Conway. I knew I wasn't dreamming! Um, that was my article, and it certainly doesn't say anything like but in the end the customer threw it out and went for a competing technology. You must have been thinking of something else for that part. - Perrin
Re: Where was that success story?
Fulko Hew wrote: Fulko Hew wrote: Can someone forward me a URL to the perl/mod-perl success story (from about 6 months ago) that was about some people that went in and re-wrote someones web application and made it run incredably faster in a very short time [...] I'm part of a small group which recently did something like this, replacing a major NT/IIS/ASP web site with Linux/Apache/mod_perl/Mason in 3 months. No public story has been written about it, but I would reply to private questions about the experience. To summarize, it went very smoothly and was a great success (and no part of it has been thrown out for any competing technology). -- Eric Hammond [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Where was that success story?
Hi ( 02.03.06 10:28 -0800 ) Eric Hammond: I'm part of a small group which recently did something like this, replacing a major NT/IIS/ASP web site with Linux/Apache/mod_perl/Mason in 3 months. Dude- write this up! Submit it to Stas, or the perl.org web site. This is good stuff that we *all* benefit from. -- \js engineer value-added e-commerce
RE: Where was that success story?
:: No public story has been written about it, but I would reply to :: private questions about the experience. To summarize, it went :: very smoothly and was a great success (and no part of it has :: been thrown out for any competing technology). Eric, Would you consider writing a paper describing the project? Are there any NDA's (or similar) that would prevent you doing so? If so, could you write without disclosing any NDA-breaching details? Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator West Yorkshire Perl User Group http://wypug.pm.org/
Re: Where was that success story?
Kurt Hansen wrote: What I really want to know is: what ever happened to that eToys jingle that was on the commercials? That song is by Hawaiian performer Israel Kamakawiwo`ole. Here's a link to the CD: http://album.yahoo.com/shop?d=haid=1804600529cf=10intl=us - Perrin
Re: [OT] eToys Jingle (was: Where was that success story?)
Thanks to Gnutella, I'm getting chills all over again. I just love that song. eToys might not have survived, but their marketing sure did. :-) At 02:45 PM 3/6/2002 -0800, Tom Servo wrote: What I really want to know is: what ever happened to that eToys jingle that was on the commercials? It was almost as good as the site. My children were all under 7 when the site folded, so those commercials and that jingle REALLY pulled the heart strings. Heh, used to work there. Song was: Somewhere Over the Rainbow/What a Wonderful World by Israel Kamakawiwo'ole on the album Facing Future Enjoy. Brian Nilsen == Drew Taylor JA[P|m_p]H http://www.drewtaylor.com/ Just Another Perl|mod_perl Hacker mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** God bless America! *** -- Speakeasy.net: A DSL provider with a clue. Sign up today. http://www.speakeasy.net/refer/29655 ==
Success story.
The URL is on an internal LAN for a company whose name I cannot use. The site gets up to a few hundred hits per second supporting a telephone call center database. My company was asked to develop a web front end onto a TB data warehouse. The existing system (carefully crafted in C) was so slow people couldn't get their work done (e.g., 45-minute query times). We re-did the back end and slapped an interface on it using mod_perl. The first time the users saw it they asked for a Stop button like the existing system had so they could abort long-running queries. Then we went over where to put it with me running queries. They gave up on the idea because the data was returned too fast for them to hit a button. Through 4+ weeks of User Acceptance Testing (UAT) they asked for a few dozen changes in the reports. Few of them took loger than 20 minutes to implement. In several cases they got annoyed that the company email took longer to deliver the fix notice than make the change. Using Perl we were also able to handle the database manglement software for tablespace and table creation, web site auth. and reporting code and most of the ETL process management code in one language. That also saved us quite a bit of work. -- Steven Lembark 2930 W. Palmer Workhorse Computing Chicago, IL 60647 +1 800 762 1582
mod_perl success story (fwd)
-- Forwarded message -- Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 13:27:49 -0500 From: Richard Dice [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: mod_perl success story For the http://perl.apache.org/stories/ page, consider Webpersonals: http://www.webpersonals.com/ which uses HTML::Embperl. It's very impressive. Cheers, Richard -- Richard Dice * Personal 514 816 9568 * Fax 514 816 9569 ShadNet Creator * http://shadnet.shad.ca/ * [EMAIL PROTECTED] Occasional Writer, HotWired * http://www.hotwired.com/webmonkey/ "squeeze the world 'til it's small enough to join us heel to toe" - jesus jones
Re: modperl success story
Barb and Tim wrote: full honesty. The language itself is hard enough to swallow. How is Perl hard to swallow? Perl is so easy and flexible. Stephen
Re: modperl success story
On Fri, 14 Jan 2000, Barb and Tim wrote: It could really enhance your integrity if you also presented honest evaluations of the downsides of Perl. The promotion of Perl on this site is so ubiquitous and one sided, and Perl has such a bad reputation in many ways, that somebody like me has a hard time swallowing the sunny prognostications and finally diving in, unless I see full honesty. The language itself is hard enough to swallow. This is not an advocacy group. Problems with mod_perl and (more rarely) perl (the standard imlementation) and Perl (the language as an abstract definition) do show up here, if you wait long enough. This group is for people who are trying to implement, use and improve mod_perl. I think you'll find that many of the people on the list have gone through some exhaustive searching BEFORE stumbling upon mod_perl. Many, if not most, have significant backgrounds in many other development (web and other) systems and languages. I like perl, Perl, and mod_perl. I think most of the people on this list do, as well. You're not likely to get a bunch of apologies for that. If you don't like something about any of the 3 parts, please try and help fix it. Or just find something else that you do like. Perhaps you'll find that other systems are better suited to what you do. Perhaps not, and you'll end up back here again. I'm sure that would be fine with anyone on the list. -- -- Tom Mornini -- InfoMania Printing and Prepress
Re: modperl success story
So, present us all with a detailed analysis of all Perl's failings and
its bad reputation compaired the competition, so that we may see the
light and turn to the true path. Until then we'll all stagger along
happily in the darkness.
Even better, write your own language like Larry did and see how many
disciples you attract.
Rod Butcher
Barb and Tim wrote:
It could really enhance your integrity if you also
presented honest evaluations of the downsides of Perl.
The promotion of Perl on this site is so ubiquitous and
one sided, and Perl has such a bad reputation in many ways,
that somebody like me has a hard time swallowing the sunny
prognostications and finally diving in, unless I see
full honesty. The language itself is hard enough to swallow.
Just a suggestion.
--
Rod Butcher | "... I gaze at the beauty of the world,
Hyena Holdings Internet | its wonders and its miracles and out of
Programming | sheer joy I laugh even as the day laughs.
("it's us or the vultures") | And then the people of the jungle say,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | 'It is but the laughter of a hyena'".
|Kahlil Gibran.. The Wanderer
Re: modperl success story
It could really enhance your integrity if you also presented honest evaluations of the downsides of Perl. The promotion of Perl on this site is so ubiquitous and one sided, and Perl has such a bad reputation in many ways, that somebody like me has a hard time swallowing the sunny prognostications and finally diving in, unless I see full honesty. The language itself is hard enough to swallow. Just a suggestion. You are not the first to say this, we've discussed this already, no need to do this again. Adam Pisoni has summarized this thread in his wonderful "Popular Perl Complaints and Myths" document. Please read it at: http://perl.apache.org/perl_myth.html Please move the thread to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Have a nice Perl :) ___ Stas Bekmanmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stason.org/stas Perl,CGI,Apache,Linux,Web,Java,PC http://www.stason.org/stas/TULARC perl.apache.orgmodperl.sourcegarden.org perlmonth.comperl.org single o- + single o-+ = singlesheavenhttp://www.singlesheaven.com
Re: modperl success story
Barb and Tim wrote: It could really enhance your integrity if you also presented honest evaluations of the downsides of Perl. WHy don't you start. -jwb
Re: modperl success story
According to Barb and Tim: It could really enhance your integrity if you also presented honest evaluations of the downsides of Perl. Perl has two downsides. One is the start-up time for the program and mod_perl solves this for web pages. The promotion of Perl on this site is so ubiquitous and one sided, and Perl has such a bad reputation in many ways, that somebody like me has a hard time swallowing the sunny prognostications and finally diving in, unless I see full honesty. The language itself is hard enough to swallow. Just a suggestion. The other down side is that it is fast and easy to write working programs that are difficult for someone else to understand. That is, it accepts an individual's style instead of forcing something universal. I guess everyone here is willing to accept that tradeoff. Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: modperl success story
The troll vanisheth! - Transcript of session follows - ... while talking to mc5.law5.hotmail.com.: RCPT To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 550 Requested action not taken:user account inactive 550 [EMAIL PROTECTED]... User unknown
Re: modperl success story
The troll vanisheth! ha! Reminds me of the Zen story of an old fisherman in a boat on a lake in a heavy can't see your hands fog. He bumps into another boat, and shouts at the other guy, "Look where you're going would you! You almost knocked me over." He pulls up beside the boat and is about to give the other guy a piece of his mind, but when he looks in the other boat, he discovers that no one else is there. Flame trolls on mailing lists are virtual empty boats, whose only value is the sometimes humorous apoplexy elicited in the old sea salts on the list. Ed
Re: modperl success story
On Fri, 14 Jan 2000, Barb and Tim wrote: It could really enhance your integrity if you also presented honest evaluations of the downsides of Perl. The promotion of Perl on this site is so ubiquitous and one sided, and Perl has such a bad reputation in many ways, that somebody like me has a hard time swallowing the sunny prognostications and finally diving in, unless I see full honesty. The language itself is hard enough to swallow. Just a suggestion. I would venture to suggest that the problems of mod_perl are as follows: - Non-trivial to build and install (judging by the number of questions here regarding problems in this area - not by personal experience). - Still some wierd bugs. - A number of special considerations have to be made when building your program, such as taking care of persistent variables, etc. - All of perl's irritations (and there are quite a few - like the definition of truth). - Documentation still isn't fantastic - although the guide has made great inroads into changing that, and the book is awsome. - Some modules are still a bit cryptic (e.g. some people expect things like Apache::Session to do everything for them, whereas it's really a session management toolkit). - mod_perl is still really in its infancy, and hasn't taken off as fast as other systems such as php and Zope. I think this is due to the complexity issues outlined above, and the fact that ISP's don't like mod_perl. - Oh yeah - and mod_perl uses lots of RAM. That's probably the main reason ISP's don't like it. -- Matt/ Details: FastNet Software Ltd - XML, Perl, Databases. Tagline: High Performance Web Solutions Web Sites: http://come.to/fastnet http://sergeant.org Available for Consultancy, Contracts and Training.
Re: modperl success story
On Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 12:34:00PM -0800, Ed Phillips wrote: The troll vanisheth! ha! Reminds me of the Zen story of an old fisherman in a boat on a lake in a heavy can't see your hands fog. He bumps into another boat, and shouts at the other guy, "Look where you're going would you! You almost knocked me over." He pulls up beside the boat and is about to give the other guy a piece of his mind, but when he looks in the other boat, he discovers that no one else is there. Flame trolls on mailing lists are virtual empty boats, whose only value is the sometimes humorous apoplexy elicited in the old sea salts on the list. Wow, what a story. But poor man probably just didn't realize that this list is not for sucess stories sharing. But for problems discussion :) Andrei --
Re: modperl success story
Hey, aren't we decided to use the advocacy list for this kind of threads? You are funny folks, when you don't want us to discuss something here, you tell go talk about this somewhere else, so we did. Please follow your own suggestions. This current thread was split into 2, one discussed here and the other at the proper "advocacy" list! The subscribing info is: A new mailing list for mod_perl advocacy issues, discussions about site and etc. Subscribe by sending a mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] The list address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] The archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/advocacy%40perl.apache.org/ Thank you very much! ___ Stas Bekmanmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stason.org/stas Perl,CGI,Apache,Linux,Web,Java,PC http://www.stason.org/stas/TULARC perl.apache.orgmodperl.sourcegarden.org perlmonth.comperl.org single o- + single o-+ = singlesheavenhttp://www.singlesheaven.com
