[OT](a bit) Re: HTTP and MPM support
On 25.01.2019 21:15, Paul B. Henson wrote: On 1/25/2019 11:00 AM, Michael A. Capone wrote: I have to add my voice to the growing chorus here. Me too. Frequently when the topic of mod_perl going stale comes up somebody jumps in with "That's old stuff, you should be using PSGI/Plack". Those people simply don't understand the overall utility of mod_perl beyond simply running a webapp . I have authentication and authorization handlers written in mod_perl, and the ability to directly access the Apache API allows things that PSGI simply cannot do. I think that is a reasonable bet to say that by the mere fact of being subscribed to this list, we all express our interest in, and love of perl and mod_perl in particular. (I cannot complain, as I was the first one to hijack John's question in that sense). But really, the underlying concern here seems to find out a bit about the future support and evolution of mod_perl, in parallel to the evolution of Apache httpd and the HTTP protocol(s). So if a mod_perl committer would happen to read this, it would be nice to get some information or pointers. There is a list here, so I suppose there are some such people : http://people.apache.org/phonebook.html?pmc=perl As this is an Apache Project, I would guess that starting from the main site apache.org, there must also be a way to find out about any activity in that project (it's named sometimes "perl", sometimes "mod_perl" there, but if you follow the project link, you end up on the same on-line documentation page that we all know and love, but which doesn't seem to lead to any further data on what's happening currently). There is also a "perl-dev" mailing list, but browsing it backward from today doesn't seem to show much activity since January 2017 (Hi, Rainer and Steve :-) The good side about this of course, is that mod_perl would appear to be a very stable and reliable module, since there is also not much evidence of bugs, patches etc. The less good side is that it appears indeed *very* stable. Unless we're all on the wrong track, and there is a hidden project somewhere for a mod_perl 3 based on perl 6..
Re: HTTP and MPM support
Agree with this we use AAA handlers - but more importantly output filters to allow content to be decorated per site (independent of what generates the content perl/java/php proxied content etc...} and add in a few useful extra logging features that rely on things like transHandlers and log & cleanup handlers you just can't quite get these working well with plack/PSGI. There is a balance between HTTP/1.1 and HTTP/2.0 that you can strike by mixing a matching backends dependant on content - I use three apaches on my machines one using event handler which receives all requests, and servers some static content and proxies back to either a dev apache or live apache dependent on what the URL is... This gives me the best of both worlds On 25/01/2019 20:15, Paul B. Henson wrote: On 1/25/2019 11:00 AM, Michael A. Capone wrote: I have to add my voice to the growing chorus here. Me too. Frequently when the topic of mod_perl going stale comes up somebody jumps in with "That's old stuff, you should be using PSGI/Plack". Those people simply don't understand the overall utility of mod_perl beyond simply running a webapp . I have authentication and authorization handlers written in mod_perl, and the ability to directly access the Apache API allows things that PSGI simply cannot do. -- The Wellcome Sanger Institute is operated by Genome Research Limited, a charity registered in England with number 1021457 and a company registered in England with number 2742969, whose registered office is 215 Euston Road, London, NW1 2BE.
Re: HTTP and MPM support
On 1/25/2019 11:00 AM, Michael A. Capone wrote: I have to add my voice to the growing chorus here. Me too. Frequently when the topic of mod_perl going stale comes up somebody jumps in with "That's old stuff, you should be using PSGI/Plack". Those people simply don't understand the overall utility of mod_perl beyond simply running a webapp . I have authentication and authorization handlers written in mod_perl, and the ability to directly access the Apache API allows things that PSGI simply cannot do.
Re: HTTP and MPM support
> On 25 Jan 2019, at 20:00, Michael A. Capone > wrote: > > > > On 1/25/19 10:54 AM, Randolf Richardson wrote: >>> On 25.01.2019 1modperl@perl.apache.org8:35, John Dunlap wrote: I'm in the process of optimizing our web application for performance and one thing that I was really excited to try was mod_http2 because it allows the browser to send multiple requests through the same TCP connection with compressed headers. > Are there any plans to support other MPM's? If not, the benefits of HTTP2 appear to be permanently out of reach for our mod_perl applications and that, honestly, might force us into seriously reevaluating our technology stack. :( >>> Am I allowed to jump into the same thread, and ask about what the general >>> status of >>> mod_perl is, nowadays (if someone knows) ? > >>> (Mind you, for us MPM prefork and HTTP 1.1 are still perfectly ok, but the >>> question is >>> more about the longer-term future). >> I'm also curious about this as I anticipate HTTP/2 support becoming >> a valuable and important feature in the future (the recent updates to >> mod_perl2 have been good for us). >> >> Randolf Richardson - rand...@inter-corporate.com >> Inter-Corporate Computer & Network Services, Inc. >> Beautiful British Columbia, Canada >> http://www.inter-corporate.com/ >> >> > I have to add my voice to the growing chorus here. As it stands, we are > forced to choose between mod_perl and HTTP/2. At the moment, our shop has > chosen to keep mod_perl, but I share the above concerns, and I'd rather see > mod_perl be ready if there is ever a major cultural shift / push to HTTP/2 in > the broader market. as a owner of a small but quite fast growing company that first used MPW worker which was a little bit unstable and then went for prefork and this is working very well for now ...but it would be fantastic to have a stable worker for http/2, so if someone? can fix it we can probably sponsor part of work for I am sure that changing technic cost a lot more … /Sive
Re: HTTP and MPM support
On 1/25/19 10:54 AM, Randolf Richardson wrote: On 25.01.2019 18:35, John Dunlap wrote: I'm in the process of optimizing our web application for performance and one thing that I was really excited to try was mod_http2 because it allows the browser to send multiple requests through the same TCP connection with compressed headers. Are there any plans to support other MPM's? If not, the benefits of HTTP2 appear to be permanently out of reach for our mod_perl applications and that, honestly, might force us into seriously reevaluating our technology stack. :( Am I allowed to jump into the same thread, and ask about what the general status of mod_perl is, nowadays (if someone knows) ? (Mind you, for us MPM prefork and HTTP 1.1 are still perfectly ok, but the question is more about the longer-term future). I'm also curious about this as I anticipate HTTP/2 support becoming a valuable and important feature in the future (the recent updates to mod_perl2 have been good for us). Randolf Richardson - rand...@inter-corporate.com Inter-Corporate Computer & Network Services, Inc. Beautiful British Columbia, Canada http://www.inter-corporate.com/ I have to add my voice to the growing chorus here. As it stands, we are forced to choose between mod_perl and HTTP/2. At the moment, our shop has chosen to keep mod_perl, but I share the above concerns, and I'd rather see mod_perl be ready if there is ever a major cultural shift / push to HTTP/2 in the broader market.
Re: HTTP and MPM support
> On 25.01.2019 18:35, John Dunlap wrote: > > I'm in the process of optimizing our web application for performance and > > one thing that I > > was really excited to try was mod_http2 because it allows the browser to > > send multiple > > requests through the same TCP connection with compressed headers. However, > > when I enabled > > it and restarted apache I was greeted with this: > > > > [Fri Jan 25 12:30:57.813355 2019] [http2:warn] [pid 10186] AH10034: The mpm > > module > > (prefork.c) is not supported by mod_http2. The mpm determines how things > > are processed in > > your server. HTTP/2 has more demands in this regard and the currently > > selected mpm will > > just not do. This is an advisory warning. Your server will continue to > > work, but the > > HTTP/2 protocol will be inactive. > > [Fri Jan 25 12:30:57.828217 2019] [mpm_prefork:notice] [pid 10186] AH00163: > > Apache/2.4.29 > > (Ubuntu) OpenSSL/1.1.0g mod_apreq2-20090110/2.8.0 mod_perl/2.0.10 > > Perl/v5.26.1 configured > > -- resuming normal operations > > [Fri Jan 25 12:30:57.828238 2019] [core:notice] [pid 10186] AH00094: > > Command line: > > '/usr/sbin/apache2' > > > > The last time I tried to use either mpm_worker or mpm_event my application > > was plagued by > > seemingly random segfaults. Are there any plans to support other MPM's? If > > not, the > > benefits of HTTP2 appear to be permanently out of reach for our mod_perl > > applications and > > that, honestly, might force us into seriously reevaluating our technology > > stack. :( > > > > Am I allowed to jump into the same thread, and ask about what the general > status of > mod_perl is, nowadays (if someone knows) ? > I am very happy with mod_perl, which we have been using for many years and > still use > extensively in our applications. > And it is true that mod_perl allows one to "do things" in/with Apache httpd, > that no other > Apache add-on module seems to even approach. > But it seemed that it took quite a long time for mod_perl to become available > again when > Apache went from 2.2 to 2.4, and it seems indeed that not much is happening > lately in > terms of making it work reliably under MPM's other than prefork. > So I am curious too, like John above. > > (Mind you, for us MPM prefork and HTTP 1.1 are still perfectly ok, but the > question is > more about the longer-term future). I'm also curious about this as I anticipate HTTP/2 support becoming a valuable and important feature in the future (the recent updates to mod_perl2 have been good for us). We use mod_perl2 extensively in all the web site application programming that we do. We just finished writing an online store application, and are now in the process of creating a social network platform, both of which are using mod_perl2 and PostgreSQL. Being able to write Perl code to handle the authentication phases directly, and pass our DBI handle and other instantiated Perl objects to other Perl scripts in the same session using $r->pnotes has also provided wonderful performance benefits. Perl has such a vast array of modules that make it easy to accomplish a lot productively without having to "re-invent the wheel" and so I regard mod_perl2 as one of Apache HTTPd's most valuable modules that has ever been created. Randolf Richardson - rand...@inter-corporate.com Inter-Corporate Computer & Network Services, Inc. Beautiful British Columbia, Canada http://www.inter-corporate.com/
Re: HTTP and MPM support
On 25.01.2019 18:35, John Dunlap wrote: I'm in the process of optimizing our web application for performance and one thing that I was really excited to try was mod_http2 because it allows the browser to send multiple requests through the same TCP connection with compressed headers. However, when I enabled it and restarted apache I was greeted with this: [Fri Jan 25 12:30:57.813355 2019] [http2:warn] [pid 10186] AH10034: The mpm module (prefork.c) is not supported by mod_http2. The mpm determines how things are processed in your server. HTTP/2 has more demands in this regard and the currently selected mpm will just not do. This is an advisory warning. Your server will continue to work, but the HTTP/2 protocol will be inactive. [Fri Jan 25 12:30:57.828217 2019] [mpm_prefork:notice] [pid 10186] AH00163: Apache/2.4.29 (Ubuntu) OpenSSL/1.1.0g mod_apreq2-20090110/2.8.0 mod_perl/2.0.10 Perl/v5.26.1 configured -- resuming normal operations [Fri Jan 25 12:30:57.828238 2019] [core:notice] [pid 10186] AH00094: Command line: '/usr/sbin/apache2' The last time I tried to use either mpm_worker or mpm_event my application was plagued by seemingly random segfaults. Are there any plans to support other MPM's? If not, the benefits of HTTP2 appear to be permanently out of reach for our mod_perl applications and that, honestly, might force us into seriously reevaluating our technology stack. :( Am I allowed to jump into the same thread, and ask about what the general status of mod_perl is, nowadays (if someone knows) ? I am very happy with mod_perl, which we have been using for many years and still use extensively in our applications. And it is true that mod_perl allows one to "do things" in/with Apache httpd, that no other Apache add-on module seems to even approach. But it seemed that it took quite a long time for mod_perl to become available again when Apache went from 2.2 to 2.4, and it seems indeed that not much is happening lately in terms of making it work reliably under MPM's other than prefork. So I am curious too, like John above. (Mind you, for us MPM prefork and HTTP 1.1 are still perfectly ok, but the question is more about the longer-term future). A. Warnier (acting as) CTO Mira Consulting GmbH
HTTP and MPM support
I'm in the process of optimizing our web application for performance and one thing that I was really excited to try was mod_http2 because it allows the browser to send multiple requests through the same TCP connection with compressed headers. However, when I enabled it and restarted apache I was greeted with this: [Fri Jan 25 12:30:57.813355 2019] [http2:warn] [pid 10186] AH10034: The mpm module (prefork.c) is not supported by mod_http2. The mpm determines how things are processed in your server. HTTP/2 has more demands in this regard and the currently selected mpm will just not do. This is an advisory warning. Your server will continue to work, but the HTTP/2 protocol will be inactive. [Fri Jan 25 12:30:57.828217 2019] [mpm_prefork:notice] [pid 10186] AH00163: Apache/2.4.29 (Ubuntu) OpenSSL/1.1.0g mod_apreq2-20090110/2.8.0 mod_perl/2.0.10 Perl/v5.26.1 configured -- resuming normal operations [Fri Jan 25 12:30:57.828238 2019] [core:notice] [pid 10186] AH00094: Command line: '/usr/sbin/apache2' The last time I tried to use either mpm_worker or mpm_event my application was plagued by seemingly random segfaults. Are there any plans to support other MPM's? If not, the benefits of HTTP2 appear to be permanently out of reach for our mod_perl applications and that, honestly, might force us into seriously reevaluating our technology stack. :( -- John Dunlap *CTO | Lariat * *Direct:* *j...@lariat.co * *Customer Service:* 877.268.6667 supp...@lariat.co
