Re: [MOSAIC] New problem....
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At what cost, this > insane overemphasis on > test scores!! I don't want to be in a sinking > lifeboat with these kinds of thinkers. LOL! I totally agree. I have no desire to open a political can of worms on this list, but hopefully all of the Mosaic members who against the renewal of NCLB have signed this petition: http://www.educatorroundtable.org Lisa 2/3 IL __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Ellin, when comprehension strategies become the reason for reading. . .
Thanks for sharing! I read this book a couple of years ago...I think we even talked about it one summer on this listserve. I think over Christmas I am going to revisit. I really like the power and insights you gain from videotaping yourself with students. It is amazing how a group changes over time and allows you to replace and reflect on your own teaching. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am just finishing using Ardith Davis Cole's Knee to Knee which focuses on conversations on shared texts - a five-step process. I began in September going into one classroom at each level from grades 1 through 5. This is the first time I have used this text. The classrooms I went into were heterogeneous, including higher students, remedial students, and classified students. We started slowly with just observing other people having conversations and then inched ourselves into making "I wonders", asking thick and thin questions, and looking for evidence within a shared text. Most of the groundwork was done by me, through direction instruction and lots and lots of modeling and the kids were just observers. "Calling the Circle" was the highlight of this endeavor. The entire class sat in a large circle on the floor to engage in a shared text conversation - usually from read alouds. The hardest thing for me to do, as a teacher, was to become mute. I couldn't say anything or use any body language that would sway the students' comments. My job was to write down any positive comments or observations I made to share following their converstion. In every session where the circle was called, I had to interrupt the kids because we had run out of time rather than conversation. The kids learned not only the conventions of having a strong, meaningful conversation, but they also began to "police" themselves to keep attentive and focused. The comments from the students, regardless of their "standing" in the classroom, raised my eyebrows as well as my consciousness of what children can do when you provide them with engaging and relevant lessons. I can't tell you how many times I had to pick my chin up off the floor. Students who normally were introverted in the classroom became some of my most vocal conversationalists. The final step is to whittle the circle back to three students, and finally, to independent conversations on texts that are read - of course, these are in our heads. If you haven't looked at this text, I would highly recommend it. We are so impressed with the results that we are going to video tape one of the classes in a "circle" conversation with the hopes that it will air on a local educational channel or, at the very least, be available for any staff members who might consider doing this with their own class. It is not just a book to teach kids how to dialogue on literature, it also covers many strategies that are inherent with critical thinking and being socially acceptable. Linda -- Original message -- From: Teresa Terry > Lori, > > That is one book I do not ownyet. Could you talk about the different > categories and the coding of conversations? > > For an action research project I did analyze the change over time in > teacher/student talk in regards to Dorn and Soffos' Text Talk which included > posing questions, clarifying, elaborating, supporting thinking with evidence, > etc... I also looked at each chain of talk and classified it as literal, > inferencial, and evaluative to determine if thinking deepened with the use of > text talk/students' own language which produced the same behaviors. After > each > literature discussion we go over over Conversational Moves chart and reflect > on > our use of the moves in the wording on the chart or in their own words. We > add > their own words to chart. This chart has served as a scaffold in connecting > talk. As students take on the language/behaviors it will be less needed/taken > down. > > Anyway, I said all this to say...II'd love to know more about what you are > thinking. > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I am working with two oung teachers working in outlaying schools, nearly 40 > miles away from one another, to develop an > inquiry based unit of study that will involve 'lit cirlce discussions' that > will > be facilitated using Blackboard. Both teachers have > small classes, children who have known each other since birth (or darn near) > and > are reluctant readers. Our hope is that a > different approach, choice in reading and the opportunity to mix things up a > bit > in terms of grouping will help. I have been > reading Jeff Wilhelm's new book on inquiry, which I highly recommend, and he > discusses the skills students need to have > meaningful discussions, actually classifying the different types of > responses. > We feel that the kids do not have the skills to > have meanigful conversations, so I have suggested that we try something quite > diff
Re: [MOSAIC] New problem....
The DVD that comes with Teaching for Deeper Comprehension has a couple of
student discussions and a couple of adult discussions. I used the two kid ones
with my upper grade kids...I'm thinking the video had 4th or 5th graders. We
watched first for understanding. Rewatched for what kids did...rewatched for
what they sounded like.
Jan Kammert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I have read Bill's new problem and
some of your suggestions. I also teach
8th grade, and I'm beginning to think that my students would benefit from
a video that shows an excellent book discussion.
Can anyone suggest a video I can buy?
Thanks!
Jan
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006, William Roberts wrote:
> Hope everyone is getting rest and relaxation this holiday season, but I've
> got a problem: I'm not getting any thinking from my 8th graders.at
> least not anything I want. I know I'm not expecting too much from them
> since other years have not been sosomere words can't describe them.
> Let me show you:
>
> I gave a writing prompt to tell me about a favorite movie, TV show, book,
> video game, or CD album. Many tried, but a few MADE UP SHOWS! Once wrote
> about a movie that had "over 200 movie stars!" Others wrote about movies
> that hadn't even seen, but they had heard of them or had seen a trailer
> about them. A few told me that they had no favorite for any of the
> suggested items! I asked, "What do you do for fun?" and got the response,
> "I sleep." I continued with, "What do you do when you wake up?" Answer:
> "I eat." I knew better, but continued, "So what do you do when you aren't
> sleeping or eating?" and was told, "Sometimes I stare at my ceiling fan."
>
> I was finishing a movie unit which included using the strategies on art,
> music, movies, as well as books, and the students were supposed to select a
> movie from the top 250 movies (foreign and American), and write an essay
> about the film. One child wrote, "I didn't do the assignment. It was a
> stupid assignment. You wanted us to write about a movie we hadn't seen. If
> we hadn't seen it, how did you expect us to write about it?" and he was
> totally sincere! One wrote about ROCKY and regaled about the "bloody,
> awesome fights" but not one thing about the acting or music or direction.
> When I asked if he had actually seen it, he said "no, but I did see part of
> one of the fights."
>
> In a class discussion about music, we all made connections when I talked
> about a favorite song coming on the radio ("Everyone turns up the volume!"),
> but when I mentioned a song you didn't like, this class said, "you listen to
> it." I asked if you changed the station (which most classes admitted), but
> this one class insisted you just listen to the song whether you hate it or
> not. I asked why they wouldn't change the station, and they said "if you
> wait, a better song will come on." I asked (you'd think I'd learn to stop
> asking) why they didn't turn the station and was told, "It's too much
> trouble to change the knob back."
>
> They do not infer. They do not think for themselves or have educated
> opinions. Is this laziness? The results of too much state tests? Is this
> group a mutation? Or did they miss the cognitive boat? With state tests
> only a few months away, I'm losing my mind. Any ideas?
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Mosaic mailing list
> Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to
> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org.
>
> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
>
>
___
Mosaic mailing list
Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to
http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org.
Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
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Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] New problem....
I have read Bill's new problem and some of your suggestions. I also teach
8th grade, and I'm beginning to think that my students would benefit from
a video that shows an excellent book discussion.
Can anyone suggest a video I can buy?
Thanks!
Jan
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006, William Roberts wrote:
> Hope everyone is getting rest and relaxation this holiday season, but I've
> got a problem: I'm not getting any thinking from my 8th graders.at
> least not anything I want. I know I'm not expecting too much from them
> since other years have not been sosomere words can't describe them.
> Let me show you:
>
> I gave a writing prompt to tell me about a favorite movie, TV show, book,
> video game, or CD album. Many tried, but a few MADE UP SHOWS! Once wrote
> about a movie that had "over 200 movie stars!" Others wrote about movies
> that hadn't even seen, but they had heard of them or had seen a trailer
> about them. A few told me that they had no favorite for any of the
> suggested items! I asked, "What do you do for fun?" and got the response,
> "I sleep." I continued with, "What do you do when you wake up?" Answer:
> "I eat." I knew better, but continued, "So what do you do when you aren't
> sleeping or eating?" and was told, "Sometimes I stare at my ceiling fan."
>
> I was finishing a movie unit which included using the strategies on art,
> music, movies, as well as books, and the students were supposed to select a
> movie from the top 250 movies (foreign and American), and write an essay
> about the film. One child wrote, "I didn't do the assignment. It was a
> stupid assignment. You wanted us to write about a movie we hadn't seen. If
> we hadn't seen it, how did you expect us to write about it?" and he was
> totally sincere! One wrote about ROCKY and regaled about the "bloody,
> awesome fights" but not one thing about the acting or music or direction.
> When I asked if he had actually seen it, he said "no, but I did see part of
> one of the fights."
>
> In a class discussion about music, we all made connections when I talked
> about a favorite song coming on the radio ("Everyone turns up the volume!"),
> but when I mentioned a song you didn't like, this class said, "you listen to
> it." I asked if you changed the station (which most classes admitted), but
> this one class insisted you just listen to the song whether you hate it or
> not. I asked why they wouldn't change the station, and they said "if you
> wait, a better song will come on." I asked (you'd think I'd learn to stop
> asking) why they didn't turn the station and was told, "It's too much
> trouble to change the knob back."
>
> They do not infer. They do not think for themselves or have educated
> opinions. Is this laziness? The results of too much state tests? Is this
> group a mutation? Or did they miss the cognitive boat? With state tests
> only a few months away, I'm losing my mind. Any ideas?
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Mosaic mailing list
> Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to
> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org.
>
> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
>
>
___
Mosaic mailing list
Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to
http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org.
Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] New problem....
I know it's really hrd work but I think we've got to keep at it!! Sue ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] New problem....
> How about encouraging children to think critically and to be > persistant, not to just settle for the first fleeting idea that might > pop onto their mind so they be be finished!! OY > Sue I've tried. Thinking is not something they want to do. I've even had them write down ideas and brainstorm and told them to throw out the first few items on their lists.but the items pass the first few are sooo bad. They can regurgitate items that a teacher has said in order to sound as if they were paying attention, but it is all surface knowledge and they can't explain anything. In fact, many have been taught by someone that if they yell out enough answers that eventually one will be correct, so rather then think about the answer, they just spout whatever pops in their heads ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] New problem....
I have always taught with the belief that I may be the only teacher who will ever teach them. I know others do, but I also know others do not. Being creative, thematic, dramatic, off-the-wall, etc. has always worked for me before, but this is the first time I've felt so helplessMy "at-risk" students do better than the average students because they respond to the encouragment and effort. My average students just sit and take up space. Bill - Original Message - From: "Angela Almond" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Listserv" Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] New problem > I teach fourth grade and I know it is very different that eighth but I > have a group of children that are very lethargic. They are the lowest > group of readers in the entire school. Most are reading at a second grade > level or lower. They have always failed at everything they have done, > including state tests, and know that they will continue to be promoted. > Therefore, they know they don't really have to do anything to "get by." > > It is slowly getting better but I had to become the teacher I hate being. > I had to hold things over their heads and use punishment as a way to force > them to read and learn. It was absolutely horrible. However, the first > week that they all got a passing grade on their vocabulary test was a > celebration that even the principal had to come down and see. The fact > that this is the first year that they have ever been asked to read things > and talk about them has really blown their minds and I think the structure > of the class has helped with some of their success but it is a battle > every day to keep them reading and learning. They are so close to giving > up and never trying again. > > So, even though it is a completely different world at the middle school, > know that I completely understand the frustration and how tempting it is > to just throw up your hands and say, "I'm done...I give up!" Just hang in > there and know that if you don't give up you may be the first teacher they > have ever had that hasn't done so! > > Angela Hatley Almond > Fourth Grade > East Albemarle Elementary School > > > > > ___ > Mosaic mailing list > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/597 - Release Date: 12/21/06 > > ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] when comprehension strategies become thereasonforreading. . .
We have teachers with varied experience, but this year we all participated in a study group focused on Comprehension using Non-fiction texts anchor text L.Dorn, we have worked on teaching the stratetgies ala D. Miller and Mosaic and some STW. I wonder about the common understanding of what good comprehension looks like and sounds like across the grade levelsbut I had an AH HA moment when I watched the D. Miller DVD. I listened and watched the conversations that were happening and really realized that we can 'model' til the cows come home but it is in the conversations that our thinking grows and is challenged. I realize this to be true even more-so once I sat with individual students and had these conversations with them based on the texts they just read. Some were giving very brief answers and one even answered "I just answered that question" when I asked "Why do you think that?" What are we accepting as teachers? I realized that we need to have a clear understanding of what great literature conversations can and should be! So, we really need to talk MORE with our students and also teach our families how to do deeper in their own conversations! I need to go deeper and get better clarity on how to really teach kids how to have these conversations and why they are so important and really FUN! I sent home ideas of conversation starters for families to use over break and beyond and some classrooms even laminated them! Of course so much goes into developing into good readers and I teach 1st gradebut I feel this is so important! What advice do you all have? Any good books to read? Any good video? I always love to see it in action! Thanks - Original Message - From: "Lisa Szyska" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Listserv" Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] when comprehension strategies become thereasonforreading. . . > Hello Mary Helen! > > What are the teachers already doing to help > w/comprehension? > > Lisa > 2/3 IL > --- Mary Helen Chappetto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> This 'conversation' is so interesting! We just >> finished our 2nd quarter and >> we completed 1on 1 reading tests on all students >> k-3. We are finding that >> comprehension is holding many of them backit is >> in the coversation about >> their thinking that really holds them back, as well >> as recalling >> information. The types of questions that require >> explanation (inferential >> and critical thinking) really require having >> experience talking about our >> thinking and how the text and/or our own experiences >> have influenced our >> thinking. If any of you have great suggestions as >> to how to really deepen >> our conversations within our day and how to get >> across to our parents the >> importance of having conversations about what they >> may be reading with their >> child, I would greatly appreciate it! My winter >> break is going to focus on >> this topic! >> >> Thank you! >> >> Mary Helen >> - Original Message - >> From: "Jones, Rex" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies >> Listserv" >> >> Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 1:38 PM >> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] when comprehension strategies >> become the >> reasonforreading. . . >> >> >> > Ellin, I agree about the importance of >> discussion--and it can't just be >> > unthoughtful discussion. I think we need to >> reflect on and continually >> > try to elevate the quality of the talk in our >> classrooms--and to expect >> > our students to be able to rise to that level. >> I'm reading Around the >> > Reading Workshop in 180 Days by Frank Serafini. >> He cites Martin >> > Nystrand's suggestion that the quality of student >> learning is closely >> > linked to the quality of classroom talk. And at >> some point, that talk has >> > to translate into written response. When my >> students take the Connecticut >> > Mastery Test, and I get the results, I'm always >> shocked at the scores of >> > students who should have done so much better >> because I know those students >> > are smart and chock full of content knowledge. >> What they lack, however, >> > is a sense of urgency about being able to >> communicate what they know in >> > the social process that reading is. They >> completely get the cognitive >> > part of reading--they don't get the social part of >> it. >> > And typically, those students are boys. My >> girls seem to be much better >> > at written response than my boys. >> > >> > I envy you that snow in Denver! We haven't had so >> much as a flurry in the >> > Northeast all season. I'm ready for some snow! >> > >> > Happy Holidays! >> > >> > Rex Jones >> > >> > -Original Message- >> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Behalf Of Ellin Keene >> > Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 1:38 PM >> > To: 'Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies >> Listserv' >> > Su
Re: [MOSAIC] Ellin, when comprehension strategies become the reason for reading. . .
I am just finishing using Ardith Davis Cole's Knee to Knee which focuses on conversations on shared texts - a five-step process. I began in September going into one classroom at each level from grades 1 through 5. This is the first time I have used this text. The classrooms I went into were heterogeneous, including higher students, remedial students, and classified students. We started slowly with just observing other people having conversations and then inched ourselves into making "I wonders", asking thick and thin questions, and looking for evidence within a shared text. Most of the groundwork was done by me, through direction instruction and lots and lots of modeling and the kids were just observers. "Calling the Circle" was the highlight of this endeavor. The entire class sat in a large circle on the floor to engage in a shared text conversation - usually from read alouds. The hardest thing for me to do, as a teacher, was to become mute. I couldn't say anything or use any body language that would sway the students' comments. My job was to write down any positive comments or observations I made to share following their converstion. In every session where the circle was called, I had to interrupt the kids because we had run out of time rather than conversation. The kids learned not only the conventions of having a strong, meaningful conversation, but they also began to "police" themselves to keep attentive and focused. The comments from the students, regardless of their "standing" in the classroom, raised my eyebrows as well as my consciousness of what children can do when you provide them with engaging and relevant lessons. I can't tell you how many times I had to pick my chin up off the floor. Students who normally were introverted in the classroom became some of my most vocal conversationalists. The final step is to whittle the circle back to three students, and finally, to independent conversations on texts that are read - of course, these are in our heads. If you haven't looked at this text, I would highly recommend it. We are so impressed with the results that we are going to video tape one of the classes in a "circle" conversation with the hopes that it will air on a local educational channel or, at the very least, be available for any staff members who might consider doing this with their own class. It is not just a book to teach kids how to dialogue on literature, it also covers many strategies that are inherent with critical thinking and being socially acceptable. Linda -- Original message -- From: Teresa Terry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Lori, > > That is one book I do not ownyet. Could you talk about the different > categories and the coding of conversations? > > For an action research project I did analyze the change over time in > teacher/student talk in regards to Dorn and Soffos' Text Talk which included > posing questions, clarifying, elaborating, supporting thinking with evidence, > etc... I also looked at each chain of talk and classified it as literal, > inferencial, and evaluative to determine if thinking deepened with the use of > text talk/students' own language which produced the same behaviors. After > each > literature discussion we go over over Conversational Moves chart and reflect > on > our use of the moves in the wording on the chart or in their own words. We > add > their own words to chart. This chart has served as a scaffold in connecting > talk. As students take on the language/behaviors it will be less needed/taken > down. > > Anyway, I said all this to say...II'd love to know more about what you are > thinking. > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I am working with two oung teachers working in outlaying schools, nearly 40 > miles away from one another, to develop an > inquiry based unit of study that will involve 'lit cirlce discussions' that > will > be facilitated using Blackboard. Both teachers have > small classes, children who have known each other since birth (or darn near) > and > are reluctant readers. Our hope is that a > different approach, choice in reading and the opportunity to mix things up a > bit > in terms of grouping will help. I have been > reading Jeff Wilhelm's new book on inquiry, which I highly recommend, and he > discusses the skills students need to have > meaningful discussions, actually classifying the different types of > responses. > We feel that the kids do not have the skills to > have meanigful conversations, so I have suggested that we try something quite > different. Having found essays and short > stories which also support the inquiry question, I scripted discussions which > we > will model for the kids--role playing--and > the kids will have the scripts. We will be working to help the kids code the > conversations, moving them towards independetly > code the discussions. I am hoping this analysis will support hig
Re: [MOSAIC] New problem....
How about encouraging children to think critically and to be persistant, not to just settle for the first fleeting idea that might pop onto their mind so they be be finished!! OY Sue -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org Sent: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] New problem Sadly, I am thinking that you hit the nail on the head with these closing comments. At what cost, this insane overemphasis on test scores!! I don't want to be in a sinking lifeboat with these kinds of thinkers. Lori On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 08:37 , William Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent: >Funny thing, though. Their reading levels are 4-7 or better which is kind >of low, but better than average for this age group, their fluency levels are >right at where they need to be, and can answer almost any "right there" or >"in the book" questions, but they can't infer or look at the big picture. > >I'm thinking we have stressed "finding the answer" and "passing the state >test" and "strategies" so much that maybe we have forgotten to teach the >pleasures of learning. > >Bill > > > >- Original Message - >From: "Joy" [EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Listserv" >mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> >Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 12:38 AM >Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] New problem > > >> William and Carolyn, >> I like Carolyn's suggestion, but would like to take it one step further. >Show them something you KNOW they will HATE. Hate is such a strong emotion, >and very often kids can find lots of derisive things to say, especially at >this age. It's not cool to have a favorite; if you pick the "wrong" >favorite, you subject yourself to criticism of your peers. Although eighth >grade students say they want to be individuals, they really want to be part >of the group, and will do almost anything to gain or maintain group status. >> >> >> >> Joy/NC/4 >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> How children learn is as important as what they learn: process and >content go hand in hand. http://www.responsiveclassroom.org >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> __ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> ___ >> Mosaic mailing list >> Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org >> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. >> >> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/597 - Release Date: 12/21/06 >> >> > > >___ >Mosaic mailing list >Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org >To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/ mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > >Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Ellin, when comprehension strategies become the reason for reading. . .
Lori, That is one book I do not ownyet. Could you talk about the different categories and the coding of conversations? For an action research project I did analyze the change over time in teacher/student talk in regards to Dorn and Soffos' Text Talk which included posing questions, clarifying, elaborating, supporting thinking with evidence, etc... I also looked at each chain of talk and classified it as literal, inferencial, and evaluative to determine if thinking deepened with the use of text talk/students' own language which produced the same behaviors. After each literature discussion we go over over Conversational Moves chart and reflect on our use of the moves in the wording on the chart or in their own words. We add their own words to chart. This chart has served as a scaffold in connecting talk. As students take on the language/behaviors it will be less needed/taken down. Anyway, I said all this to say...II'd love to know more about what you are thinking. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am working with two oung teachers working in outlaying schools, nearly 40 miles away from one another, to develop an inquiry based unit of study that will involve 'lit cirlce discussions' that will be facilitated using Blackboard. Both teachers have small classes, children who have known each other since birth (or darn near) and are reluctant readers. Our hope is that a different approach, choice in reading and the opportunity to mix things up a bit in terms of grouping will help. I have been reading Jeff Wilhelm's new book on inquiry, which I highly recommend, and he discusses the skills students need to have meaningful discussions, actually classifying the different types of responses. We feel that the kids do not have the skills to have meanigful conversations, so I have suggested that we try something quite different. Having found essays and short stories which also support the inquiry question, I scripted discussions which we will model for the kids--role playing--and the kids will have the scripts. We will be working to help the kids code the conversations, moving them towards independetly code the discussions. I am hoping this analysis will support higher quality discussions online. Lori On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:33 , Teresa Terry sent: >Ellin, > > Is there any part (chart/page) that you can release from your up and coming > book/presentations that would further our thinking??? I don't think I can wait until 2007! > > As far as...to comprehend, I'm thinking that just like there are different > levels of understanding vocabulary, there are also different levels of comprehension. That is why it is only through reading, reflection, social interactions/discourse with peers and a more knowledgeable person, reflection on social interaction/discourse, addtional rereadings/further reading on the theme/subject matter, and if approriate, application in ones life, does one really understand. > > As far and discourse prompts, I'm thinking that Linda Dorn and Carla Soffos > believe they are to be used as self destructing scaffolds. For the children that I am teaching it appears that they really lack experience with literate conversations. The transcript that follows is of a group of sixth grade, low socioeconomic, ELL students who were participating in a literature discussion group and are nearing proficency levels on our state test this is how a discussion began. > > The book for this discussion was When the Earth Shakes. > > T- So who wants to start our conversation? > E- In this book it is about earthquakes, tsunamis, and what to do when an > earthquake hits. In the first chapter it tells you about, um, what the earthquakes did in California and I forgot what it is called but it runs through California and > Ed-It said that a woman went to sleep in her bed and when she woke up she was > on the other side of her house. Thats when a man and a boy were in a car and the car just starting jumping, again, I didnt know they jumped. > D-On p. 16 it says, In 1985 a powerful earthquake knocked down buildings in > Mexico City. The epicenter was more than 200 miles away! I didnt know what that means; but, I thought it was like the earthquake was more than 200 miles. > T-um-hum > D-Like knocked down more than 200 miles. > T-So, they are quite destructive, arent they? If they are taking people and > bouncing them around like you (Ed) were talking about and now we are finding out the epicenter is more than 200 miles away and they were still feeling the affects in Mexico City. What is an epicenter? > Notice that after students seemed to be going around in the circle sharing > what the text was about rather than expanding upon anothers thoughts, the teacher synthesized the information and posed a convergent question that she felt was an important vocabulary concept for the discussion. > > The following portion reflects the d
Re: [MOSAIC] New problem....
I teach fourth grade and I know it is very different that eighth but I have a group of children that are very lethargic. They are the lowest group of readers in the entire school. Most are reading at a second grade level or lower. They have always failed at everything they have done, including state tests, and know that they will continue to be promoted. Therefore, they know they don't really have to do anything to "get by." It is slowly getting better but I had to become the teacher I hate being. I had to hold things over their heads and use punishment as a way to force them to read and learn. It was absolutely horrible. However, the first week that they all got a passing grade on their vocabulary test was a celebration that even the principal had to come down and see. The fact that this is the first year that they have ever been asked to read things and talk about them has really blown their minds and I think the structure of the class has helped with some of their success but it is a battle every day to keep them reading and learning. They are so close to giving up and never trying again. So, even though it is a completely different world at the middle school, know that I completely understand the frustration and how tempting it is to just throw up your hands and say, "I'm done...I give up!" Just hang in there and know that if you don't give up you may be the first teacher they have ever had that hasn't done so! Angela Hatley Almond Fourth Grade East Albemarle Elementary School ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] New problem....
>From: "William Roberts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >I'm thinking we have stressed "finding the answer" and "passing the state >test" and "strategies" so much that maybe we have forgotten to teach the >pleasures of learning. > >Bill I hate say it Bill, but I see that you are from Florida, and I fear that this is exactly what we are doing. I have seen the same kind of apathy among 8th graders in my school. The teachers who are most successful with these kids are the ones who teach thematically, building background knowledge and creating interest. It takes a bit of drama to keep them engaged, but it can be done. Diana (also in FL) _ Your Hotmail address already works to sign into Windows Live Messenger! Get it now http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme002001msn/direct/01/?href=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] New problem....
Bill, I have seen this also and it is a general complaint of middle school teachers. I believe that yes, they are satisfied with minimal answers, but I also think that their confidence in answering deeply is very low. They are hesitant to really answer for fear of looking dumb. I think this stems from little deep discussion at home and lack of practice in the earlier grades. I have had good results with at-risk middle school students when we used guided reading groups so they were not speaking in front of the whole group, used lots of teacher modeling of how to think, and praised and praised and praised their efforts. I am always amazed at how astute they really are and how much they enjoy feeling smart. They just beam with pride when they make a fabulous comment! Marsha ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] New problem....
Sadly, I am thinking that you hit the nail on the head with these closing comments. At what cost, this insane overemphasis on test scores!! I don't want to be in a sinking lifeboat with these kinds of thinkers. Lori On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 08:37 , William Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent: >Funny thing, though. Their reading levels are 4-7 or better which is kind >of low, but better than average for this age group, their fluency levels are >right at where they need to be, and can answer almost any "right there" or >"in the book" questions, but they can't infer or look at the big picture. > >I'm thinking we have stressed "finding the answer" and "passing the state >test" and "strategies" so much that maybe we have forgotten to teach the >pleasures of learning. > >Bill > > > >- Original Message - >From: "Joy" [EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Listserv" >mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> >Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 12:38 AM >Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] New problem > > >> William and Carolyn, >> I like Carolyn's suggestion, but would like to take it one step further. >Show them something you KNOW they will HATE. Hate is such a strong emotion, >and very often kids can find lots of derisive things to say, especially at >this age. It's not cool to have a favorite; if you pick the "wrong" >favorite, you subject yourself to criticism of your peers. Although eighth >grade students say they want to be individuals, they really want to be part >of the group, and will do almost anything to gain or maintain group status. >> >> >> >> Joy/NC/4 >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> How children learn is as important as what they learn: process and >content go hand in hand. http://www.responsiveclassroom.org >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> __ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> ___ >> Mosaic mailing list >> Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org >> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. >> >> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/597 - Release Date: 12/21/06 >> >> > > >___ >Mosaic mailing list >Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org >To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/ mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > >Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Ellin, when comprehension strategies become the reason for reading. . .
I am working with two oung teachers working in outlaying schools, nearly 40 miles away from one another, to develop an inquiry based unit of study that will involve 'lit cirlce discussions' that will be facilitated using Blackboard. Both teachers have small classes, children who have known each other since birth (or darn near) and are reluctant readers. Our hope is that a different approach, choice in reading and the opportunity to mix things up a bit in terms of grouping will help. I have been reading Jeff Wilhelm's new book on inquiry, which I highly recommend, and he discusses the skills students need to have meaningful discussions, actually classifying the different types of responses. We feel that the kids do not have the skills to have meanigful conversations, so I have suggested that we try something quite different. Having found essays and short stories which also support the inquiry question, I scripted discussions which we will model for the kids--role playing--and the kids will have the scripts. We will be working to help the kids code the conversations, moving them towards independetly code the discussions. I am hoping this analysis will support higher quality discussions online. Lori On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:33 , Teresa Terry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent: >Ellin, > > Is there any part (chart/page) that you can release from your up and coming > book/presentations that would further our thinking??? I don't think I can wait until 2007! > > As far as...to comprehend, I'm thinking that just like there are different > levels of understanding vocabulary, there are also different levels of comprehension. That is why it is only through reading, reflection, social interactions/discourse with peers and a more knowledgeable person, reflection on social interaction/discourse, addtional rereadings/further reading on the theme/subject matter, and if approriate, application in ones life, does one really understand. > > As far and discourse prompts, I'm thinking that Linda Dorn and Carla Soffos > believe they are to be used as self destructing scaffolds. For the children that I am teaching it appears that they really lack experience with literate conversations. The transcript that follows is of a group of sixth grade, low socioeconomic, ELL students who were participating in a literature discussion group and are nearing proficency levels on our state test this is how a discussion began. > > The book for this discussion was When the Earth Shakes. > > T- So who wants to start our conversation? > E- In this book it is about earthquakes, tsunamis, and what to do when an > earthquake hits. In the first chapter it tells you about, um, what the earthquakes did in California and I forgot what it is called but it runs through California and > Ed-It said that a woman went to sleep in her bed and when she woke up she > was on the other side of her house. Thats when a man and a boy were in a car and the car just starting jumping, again, I didnt know they jumped. > D-On p. 16 it says, In 1985 a powerful earthquake knocked down buildings > in Mexico City. The epicenter was more than 200 miles away! I didnt know what that means; but, I thought it was like the earthquake was more than 200 miles. > T-um-hum > D-Like knocked down more than 200 miles. > T-So, they are quite destructive, arent they? If they are taking people > and bouncing them around like you (Ed) were talking about and now we are finding out the epicenter is more than 200 miles away and they were still feeling the affects in Mexico City. What is an epicenter? > Notice that after students seemed to be going around in the circle sharing > what the text was about rather than expanding upon anothers thoughts, the teacher synthesized the information and posed a convergent question that she felt was an important vocabulary concept for the discussion. > > The following portion reflects the depth of thinking throughout the majority > of the text. As stated before, the students seemed to share information at random and interrupted one another in the stream of speech. Students were not using a co- constructed conversational moves chart that was hung near the discussion meeting place. Instead, students supported and added to anothers thoughts with, It says On page __ and I think I know why. Although a student shared a poorly constructed inference and activated her schemata concerning earthquakes, the majority of the discussion was at a literal level. Example 2 resents a passage that reflected the literalness of the students conversation. > > E-I think it means where the people are. Where they have the Richter > scale. I think it is that.. > D- (Interrupts E) On the front cover, did the earthquake knock down half of > the road or something like that? > E-It looks like a freeway. > T-Can it do that? > A
Re: [MOSAIC] New problem....
Been there, done that. They don't hate either. They just lead passionless
lives. The best they can come up with is, "It's stupid." or "That's gay."
When I try to discuss WHY it's stupid, they can't go beyond the "gay" thing
(which I hate so I ban the use of the word in class).
We started with the reading strategies. We made the transition to THINKING
strategies and I brought in movies, art, music, etc. to show that EVERYTHING
requires thinking. On a literal level, they understand the concepts, but
there's no thinking. Admittedly, there are a few, but I've never had so
many who aren't.actually, REFUSE...to think. Showed a painting by
Edward Hopper which usually illicits some feeling because of his use of dark
colors and simple scenes, but instead of trying to think about what the
painting meant, they described the painting ("There's a chair, a open door,
a staircase. Green curtains with yellow trim. I "think" someone forgot to
close the door" "Maybe the dog got out."). Previous years, there were
discussions of what the door symbolized ("a new journey, a new life, fear of
the unknown, do you stay or do you go? Reminds me of the poem "Stopping by
Woods on a Snowy Evening" and Langston Hughes' poem, "Mother to Son." the
staircase could be going up like a 'Stairway to Heaven?', etc.). This group
could say it made them feel depressed, but then skip any discussion of their
feelings and went straight to description. Some even went so fas as to
suggest the "author" should use brighter colors and paint something else.
Rather than figure out why the painter painted it, they are so egocentric as
to think the painter should paint it based on their recommendations!
Funny thing, though. Their reading levels are 4-7 or better which is kind
of low, but better than average for this age group, their fluency levels are
right at where they need to be, and can answer almost any "right there" or
"in the book" questions, but they can't infer or look at the big picture.
I'm thinking we have stressed "finding the answer" and "passing the state
test" and "strategies" so much that maybe we have forgotten to teach the
pleasures of learning.
Bill
- Original Message -
From: "Joy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Listserv"
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] New problem
> William and Carolyn,
> I like Carolyn's suggestion, but would like to take it one step further.
Show them something you KNOW they will HATE. Hate is such a strong emotion,
and very often kids can find lots of derisive things to say, especially at
this age. It's not cool to have a favorite; if you pick the "wrong"
favorite, you subject yourself to criticism of your peers. Although eighth
grade students say they want to be individuals, they really want to be part
of the group, and will do almost anything to gain or maintain group status.
>
>
>
> Joy/NC/4
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> How children learn is as important as what they learn: process and
content go hand in hand. http://www.responsiveclassroom.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> ___
> Mosaic mailing list
> Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to
http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org.
>
> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/597 - Release Date: 12/21/06
>
>
___
Mosaic mailing list
Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org
To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to
http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org.
Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] New problem....
They had a rubric. They just don't want to put any effort into thinking or
writing. Most stay at the low level of their reading range ("Because it's
easier to read") and don't choose books because of interest level. If a
book has any challenge to it, they put it back on the shelf. They don't
complete assignments and only do 2 or 3 of the 5 questions or write one
sentence when I want a paragraph. They have no hobbies, interests, or
guidelines to discuss or be aware of qualities. Even ones who have a hobby
don't feel any passion for it ("I like soccer." "So what makes soccer
interesting or fun?" "I don't know, I just like it."). Watching a movie is
too much work, they would rather make it up than make an effort. Most are
happy with a D or F because they think they can pass the state test and move
on. Most are at the literal comprehension level which is not typical for
8th graders. I'm hoping this is just this group, but the 7th and 6th grade
teachers are saying their classes are worse.
Bill
- Original Message -
From: "Carolyn Wilhelm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] New problem
> Hello, I'm new to all this and am just jumping in...and I hear
> you!...but, I would have the students make a rubric for grading the
> assignment, and have them self grade as well as evaluate them myself.
> Brainstorming what is a good/excellent student paper/response first and
> then giving the assignment afterward would get them thinking of how to
> do it well. We don't really mean we want their favorite, we mean we
> want them to write well, right? So I would say that is what I mean. "A
> favorite" should be stressed.
>
> You gave other options, even video games. There was so much choice.
>
> What about first watching a movie or TV show together (Mercat Manor?)
> and doing a group response, making a rubric together, and then giving
> choice?
>
> I am probably jumping in too soon. I love all of this discussion and am
> really glad to discover this group!
> Carolyn
>
>
> Carolyn Wilhelm
> Gr. 1 Teacher, Plymouth Creek Elementary
> 763.745.5865
> See our class online:
>
http://www.wayzata.k12.mn.us/plymouthcreek/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=87&Itemid=137
> >>> "William Roberts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 12/21/06 5:27 PM >>>
> Hope everyone is getting rest and relaxation this holiday season, but
> I've
> got a problem: I'm not getting any thinking from my 8th graders.at
> least not anything I want. I know I'm not expecting too much from them
> since other years have not been sosomere words can't describe
> them.
> Let me show you:
>
> I gave a writing prompt to tell me about a favorite movie, TV show,
> book,
> video game, or CD album. Many tried, but a few MADE UP SHOWS! Once
> wrote
> about a movie that had "over 200 movie stars!" Others wrote about
> movies
> that hadn't even seen, but they had heard of them or had seen a trailer
> about them. A few told me that they had no favorite for any of the
> suggested items! I asked, "What do you do for fun?" and got the
> response,
> "I sleep." I continued with, "What do you do when you wake up?"
> Answer:
> "I eat." I knew better, but continued, "So what do you do when you
> aren't
> sleeping or eating?" and was told, "Sometimes I stare at my ceiling
> fan."
>
> I was finishing a movie unit which included using the strategies on art,
> music, movies, as well as books, and the students were supposed to
> select a
> movie from the top 250 movies (foreign and American), and write an essay
> about the film. One child wrote, "I didn't do the assignment. It was a
> stupid assignment. You wanted us to write about a movie we hadn't seen.
> If
> we hadn't seen it, how did you expect us to write about it?" and he was
> totally sincere! One wrote about ROCKY and regaled about the "bloody,
> awesome fights" but not one thing about the acting or music or
> direction.
> When I asked if he had actually seen it, he said "no, but I did see part
> of
> one of the fights."
>
> In a class discussion about music, we all made connections when I talked
> about a favorite song coming on the radio ("Everyone turns up the
> volume!"),
> but when I mentioned a song you didn't like, this class said, "you
> listen to
> it." I asked if you changed the station (which most classes admitted),
> but
> this one class insisted you just listen to the song whether you hate it
> or
> not. I asked why they wouldn't change the station, and they said "if
> you
> wait, a better song will come on." I asked (you'd think I'd learn to
> stop
> asking) why they didn't turn the station and was told, "It's too much
> trouble to change the knob back."
>
> They do not infer. They do not think for themselves or have educated
> opinions. Is this laziness? The results of too much state tests? Is
> this
> group a mutation? Or did they miss the cognitive boat? With state
> tests
> only a few months away, I'm losin
