Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
Don't be afraid to try something new, or to add or tweak something. One of the greatest things about the workshop model is that it is virtually impossible to make mistakes. Your students will guide you. Be responsive, do what makes sense, and you really can not go wrong. Minilessons.short and focused. They are tiny pieces of the literacy puzzle. --- On Tue, 2/28/12, kmuppe...@aol.com wrote: From: kmuppe...@aol.com Subject: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 9:15 PM I have been working as a consultant implementing a Readers' Workshop. Next week will be my last day with them this year- I would LOVE to intersperse my workshop with quotes of encouragement during our transitions with gems of wisdom from teachers who are immersed in the program. What would be your words of encouragement to give them? We have had a yearlong workshop- adding pieces as the year progressed. Next year there will be coaches, but not as much "training." (Also- do I have permission to use your quote? AND how would you like to be acknowledged? Full title, just initials, "Jane in NJ") ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
I am an Instructional Coach, but I have heard: a teacher (21 yrs experience) say "if they try and make me teach another way I will quit!" a sped teacher (27 yrs) say " I don't think I will retire now that I am learning about readers workshop" a student (2nd gr) say "I have always just read, I was never asked to think" "Lisa in Wyoming" -Original Message- From: mosaic-bounces+wardl=laramie1@literacyworkshop.org [mailto:mosaic-bounces+wardl=laramie1@literacyworkshop.org] On Behalf Of kmuppe...@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 2:16 PM To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org Subject: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts I have been working as a consultant implementing a Readers' Workshop. Next week will be my last day with them this year- I would LOVE to intersperse my workshop with quotes of encouragement during our transitions with gems of wisdom from teachers who are immersed in the program. What would be your words of encouragement to give them? We have had a yearlong workshop- adding pieces as the year progressed. Next year there will be coaches, but not as much "training." (Also- do I have permission to use your quote? AND how would you like to be acknowledged? Full title, just initials, "Jane in NJ") ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts needed-
Thanks, Renee- Great thinking! Judy On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 9:46 AM, Renee wrote: > I tend to agree with Elisa on this and would also tend to leave him alone, > AND I would "make available" other books with topics related to sharks if I > happened to come along them. I wouldn't push them, just have them "visible" > near the sharks books. For example, books about other fishes, or the ocean, > or the food chain, whatever. > > And I might randomly ask him questions like "How are sharks like people?" > or "Are there other fish who have to keep swimming or they will sink?" or > whatever. Not push the questions, but just ask in an idle, offhand way. > > Renee > > > On May 25, 2011, at 4:26 AM, elwaingor...@cbe.ab.ca wrote: > > Hi Judy, >> Though it may be frustrating to have this child read only about sharks >> (running out of books he can read, thinking he needs to be prepared for >> other reading demands in school) I would leave him alone. He is developing >> expertise on a topic that he is passionate about. Why squelch that? In time, >> he will develop other reading interests and the sharks will fall by the >> wayside. He is learning that reading is to find out about things we are >> interested in and that's important. He will hear other genres/topics when >> his teacher does read alouds. He can have his mom read books to him about >> sharks that are a stretch for him right now. And, IMHO, we should never make >> an instructional decision because of the perceived needs of the next grade >> level. Would this be an example of teaching to test for the next grade >> level? My best advice, again, is to leave the boy alone. >> Elisa >> Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry >> >> -Original Message- >> From: judy fiene >> Sender: mosaic-bounces+elwaingortji=cbe.ab...@literacyworkshop.org >> Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 08:44:04 >> To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group< >> mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> >> Reply-To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group" >> >> Subject: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts needed- >> >> Hi all, >> I did a presentation last night for a PTA group. My focus was on how to >> get >> your kids excited about reading. One mother had a question that stumped >> me. >> She stated that her eight year old son enjoys reading, but he's very >> specific about what he likes to read. He will only read books about >> sharks. >> He's been like this for a couple of years now. He can't seem to get enough >> books on this topic. She stated that the librarian at her local library is >> running out of book selections that are at his reading level. She doesn't >> want to squelch his passion for reading, but she also wants him to be >> prepared for books he may not want to read but needs to read for school. >> I'm >> curious to know your thoughts. >> > > > "You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it within > himself." > ~ Galileo > > > > > ___ > Mosaic mailing list > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > -- Judy Education would be so much more effective if its purpose were to ensure that by the time they leave school every boy and girl should know how much they don't know, and be imbued with a lifelong desire to know it." --Sir William Haley, British newspaper editor and broadcasting administrator Please consider the environment before printing this message. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts needed-
I tend to agree with Elisa on this and would also tend to leave him alone, AND I would "make available" other books with topics related to sharks if I happened to come along them. I wouldn't push them, just have them "visible" near the sharks books. For example, books about other fishes, or the ocean, or the food chain, whatever. And I might randomly ask him questions like "How are sharks like people?" or "Are there other fish who have to keep swimming or they will sink?" or whatever. Not push the questions, but just ask in an idle, offhand way. Renee On May 25, 2011, at 4:26 AM, elwaingor...@cbe.ab.ca wrote: Hi Judy, Though it may be frustrating to have this child read only about sharks (running out of books he can read, thinking he needs to be prepared for other reading demands in school) I would leave him alone. He is developing expertise on a topic that he is passionate about. Why squelch that? In time, he will develop other reading interests and the sharks will fall by the wayside. He is learning that reading is to find out about things we are interested in and that's important. He will hear other genres/topics when his teacher does read alouds. He can have his mom read books to him about sharks that are a stretch for him right now. And, IMHO, we should never make an instructional decision because of the perceived needs of the next grade level. Would this be an example of teaching to test for the next grade level? My best advice, again, is to leave the boy alone. Elisa Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry -Original Message- From: judy fiene Sender: mosaic-bounces+elwaingortji=cbe.ab...@literacyworkshop.org Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 08:44:04 To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group Reply-To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group" Subject: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts needed- Hi all, I did a presentation last night for a PTA group. My focus was on how to get your kids excited about reading. One mother had a question that stumped me. She stated that her eight year old son enjoys reading, but he's very specific about what he likes to read. He will only read books about sharks. He's been like this for a couple of years now. He can't seem to get enough books on this topic. She stated that the librarian at her local library is running out of book selections that are at his reading level. She doesn't want to squelch his passion for reading, but she also wants him to be prepared for books he may not want to read but needs to read for school. I'm curious to know your thoughts. "You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it within himself." ~ Galileo ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts needed-
Hi Judy, Though it may be frustrating to have this child read only about sharks (running out of books he can read, thinking he needs to be prepared for other reading demands in school) I would leave him alone. He is developing expertise on a topic that he is passionate about. Why squelch that? In time, he will develop other reading interests and the sharks will fall by the wayside. He is learning that reading is to find out about things we are interested in and that's important. He will hear other genres/topics when his teacher does read alouds. He can have his mom read books to him about sharks that are a stretch for him right now. And, IMHO, we should never make an instructional decision because of the perceived needs of the next grade level. Would this be an example of teaching to test for the next grade level? My best advice, again, is to leave the boy alone. Elisa Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry -Original Message- From: judy fiene Sender: mosaic-bounces+elwaingortji=cbe.ab...@literacyworkshop.org Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 08:44:04 To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group Reply-To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group" Subject: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts needed- Hi all, I did a presentation last night for a PTA group. My focus was on how to get your kids excited about reading. One mother had a question that stumped me. She stated that her eight year old son enjoys reading, but he's very specific about what he likes to read. He will only read books about sharks. He's been like this for a couple of years now. He can't seem to get enough books on this topic. She stated that the librarian at her local library is running out of book selections that are at his reading level. She doesn't want to squelch his passion for reading, but she also wants him to be prepared for books he may not want to read but needs to read for school. I'm curious to know your thoughts. Judy On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 7:19 PM, Lise wrote: > What is the url for finding the exemplars for middle school literature? > > It's on the Common Core Standards Website > > Here is the link: http://www.corestandards.org/assets/Appendix_B.pdf > > Lise > 7/8th grade Humanities > NBCT/EA/ELA > > > > ___ > Mosaic mailing list > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > -- Judy Education would be so much more effective if its purpose were to ensure that by the time they leave school every boy and girl should know how much they don't know, and be imbued with a lifelong desire to know it." --Sir William Haley, British newspaper editor and broadcasting administrator Please consider the environment before printing this message. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts needed-
With this type situation I usually negotiate a compromise. First step might be every third book would be an alternative and that alternative might be another type of fish! And go on like that in baby steps. Sally On 5/24/11 6:44 AM, "judy fiene" wrote: > Hi all, > I did a presentation last night for a PTA group. My focus was on how to get > your kids excited about reading. One mother had a question that stumped me. > She stated that her eight year old son enjoys reading, but he's very > specific about what he likes to read. He will only read books about sharks. > He's been like this for a couple of years now. He can't seem to get enough > books on this topic. She stated that the librarian at her local library is > running out of book selections that are at his reading level. She doesn't > want to squelch his passion for reading, but she also wants him to be > prepared for books he may not want to read but needs to read for school. I'm > curious to know your thoughts. > Judy > > > On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 7:19 PM, Lise wrote: > >> What is the url for finding the exemplars for middle school literature? >> >> It's on the Common Core Standards Website >> >> Here is the link: http://www.corestandards.org/assets/Appendix_B.pdf >> >> Lise >> 7/8th grade Humanities >> NBCT/EA/ELA >> >> >> >> ___ >> Mosaic mailing list >> Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org >> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. >> >> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. >> >> > ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
From: Beverlee Paul To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2008 10:00:38 AM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts I think I'd just like to express this: What I'd consider as a good reason to do such a thing would NOT include it being easier for teachers. That's not why we're here. On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 7:54 AM, Renee wrote: > I would like to just throw a wrench into the works, or however that > metaphor goes. I have two objections to ability grouping across > classrooms. One is that research shows that the lower groups tend to > stay lower without role models. But that's not my main objection. > > My main objection is that it detracts from the overall classroom > community component of learning, as well as takes away from the > opportunity to extend beyond "reading time" in real, authentic ways. If > something comes up in reading that triggers a real, teachable moment, > it is useless because some of the kids go away in an hour, and other > kids (the ones who would have been there, otherwise) return, not having > been present when whatever it was came up. It makes it harder to teach > thematically in ways that truly connect to each other unless all the > teachers are doing the same thing, in which case there is no reason to > have been trading kids around. > > Just my two cents, again. > Renee > > > On Oct 8, 2008, at 7:49 PM, Wendy Jensen wrote: > > > Thanks for all your great thoughts and kind words on both sides of the > > coin. I love getting other perspectives because I don't always see > > the big picture right away. I think it is important to view all sides > > before jumping in. Especially when it comes to primary readers. > > Another question hit me as I was reading your responses. If within > > our own classrooms, we differentiate by doing individual conferences, > > small skill groups, and small guided groups that are flexible, what do > > you think would be the advantage to doing the across grade-level > > groupings instead? My first thought is that it is the same thing only > > different logistics. Also, does it rattle any of the kiddos to be > > moved from one classroom to another so often? What are your > > observations of this. It sounds like they handle it fine. I'm > > curious what you think because I would bet that this comes up in our > > discussions. I appreciate your responses and you have given me food > > for thought on the topic...keep it comin' > > > > Wendy > > - Original Message - > > From: elisa kifer<mailto:eki...@nettletonschools.net> > > To: echaves_ch...@yahoo.com<mailto:echaves_ch...@yahoo.com> ; > > Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email > > Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 6:26 PM > > Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts > > > > > > Regardless of whether the kids are pulled out by ability or you are > > grouping > > with your guided reading groups, I am a strong believer in pulling > > groups > > based on ability. BUT, more importantly, these groups MUST BE > > FLEXIBLE. If > > the groups are going to be flexible, then I think it would be great. > > Why > > hold your strong students back with skills and strategies they have > > already > > mastered, and vice versa. I use a similar technique. Some of my > > very low > > students go to a 2nd grade classroom for reading instruction, and > > her top > > kids come to me for reading instruction (3rd grade). Within our > > classrooms, these students are in flexible guided reading groups. > > It works > > for us, and it helps with planning. > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 6:16 PM, chelo echaves > > wrote > echaves_ch...@yahoo..com%3ewrote>: > > > >> hello Wendy > >> I am not a teacher in the sense that most of you here are but I love > >> reading and am involved in our own Public Library here in Cebu City, > >> Philippines. My love for reading is whats keeping me here at MOSAIC > >> :-) I > >> learn alot here and not just about reading. I learn about people's > >> generosity and bigness of heart always trying to find ways to help and > >> better themselves in order to be better at helping children > >> read-Amazing! > >> Anyways, experiencially I do this-I do what my gut feel tells me to > >> do. You > >> are your best and worst critic but I can sense your deep love for > >> children >
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
Amy McGovernEducational Consultant414-975-7036715-453-6509> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:05:27 -0500> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts> > If we do the across grade-level grouping, some people have said to me that it's tracking and that is illegal. Since all of our kids are in for the whole group lesson then that must get around that some how. I'm not sure of all the legal terms and I think we all call it something different so I don't know what is against the law and what is not.> > Wendy> - Original Message - > From: susan donnelly<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> > Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 12:28 PM> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts> > > Wait I agree with Renee > also Isnt this against Inclusion policies for all kids ?> meaning isnt this against the law ?> Susan Donnelly > > --- On Sat, 10/11/08, Renee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:> > From: Renee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts> To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group" mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org>>> Date: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 11:10 AM> > Wait a minute.> > If the high kids are taken out, and the kids with IEPs are taken out, > then you are already left with only part of your class and it seems to > me that it is a PERFECT opportunity for you to go over, reteach, > extend, or clarify lessons already taught, AND/OR to have kids doing > some independent activities while you confer with them individually. I > think your principal doesn't know what the heck he is talking about.> > Renee <-- obviously cranky and getting more and more impatient with > incompetent administrators> > On Oct 11, 2008, at 8:42 AM, Wendy Jensen wrote:> > > Sorry, Amy! I emailed back to you personally and meant to do it to > > the listserv. I wanted to share our exact set up with all of you who > > have been so great in responding to my concerns over this issue. We > > have a 90 minute literacy block that is to include phonics, spelling, > > and reading. EVERY child is in the classroom for whole group reading > > instruction. When whole group is over, the top kids leave for > > instruction with the talented and gifted teacher (these are kids from > > each 2nd grade classroom), kids with IEPs leave to work with their > > teacher and we also have a reading interventionist who takes low kids > > if needed. The kids that are left in the room have differentiated > > instruction whether it be guided reading, independent > > reading/conferences, or small group skill work. However, our > > principal wants to take those kids that are still in our room and > > split them apart into different classrooms based on their ability > > level. If we are all already differentiating with the kids that are > > still in the room, why would we need to break it down further? Then > > it is just a matter of logistics. I feel that a lot of this is just > > "buzz words". We should be doing it because it is the latest> thing, > > not because we have proof that it works for or is good for kids. I > > am not opposed to maybe trying this set-up in a different part of the > > day for a short amount of time. I want to thank you all again for > > your insights on both sides of the issue. I have started making a > > list of questions for the administration and points about things we > > have discussed on this listserve. I learn from all of you everyday!> >> > Wendy> >> > - Original Message -> > From: Amy McGovern<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> > To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email > > Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org>>> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 10:35 PM> > Subject: RE: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts> >> >> > Hi Wendy,> > I am wondering how many guided reading groups some of the other > > teachers in your building have.> > Sometimes teachers have too many groups. When this is the case, > > sharing kids is a very good solution. I work with teachers who have 7 > > groups in one class. They have been doing this so long that they no > > longer see the problem with only getting face time with each grou
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
No apologies needed. I wonder if your principal is concerned about the "down time" kids have when they are not with you. Sometimes this time can be utilized more effectively. I don't know the situation... and it soundsl like you all do a fari amount of differentiating already, but I have worked with a enough teachers and administrators to know that everyone's teaching skills are not equal. You may be excellent at differentiating instruction, but someone else on your staff may not be. Creating more structure for everyone can be a way to improve the learning experience for all the kids. Principals cannot always say the reasons for making changes...just a thought. Amy> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 10:42:32 -0500> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts> > Sorry, Amy! I emailed back to you personally and meant to do it to the listserv. I wanted to share our exact set up with all of you who have been so great in responding to my concerns over this issue. We have a 90 minute literacy block that is to include phonics, spelling, and reading. EVERY child is in the classroom for whole group reading instruction. When whole group is over, the top kids leave for instruction with the talented and gifted teacher (these are kids from each 2nd grade classroom), kids with IEPs leave to work with their teacher and we also have a reading interventionist who takes low kids if needed. The kids that are left in the room have differentiated instruction whether it be guided reading, independent reading/conferences, or small group skill work. However, our principal wants to take those kids that are still in our room and split them apart into different classrooms based on their ability level. If we are all already differentiating with the kids that are still in the room, why would we need to break it down further? Then it is just a matter of logistics. I feel that a lot of this is just "buzz words". We should be doing it because it is the latest thing, not because we have proof that it works for or is good for kids. I am not opposed to maybe trying this set-up in a different part of the day for a short amount of time. I want to thank you all again for your insights on both sides of the issue. I have started making a list of questions for the administration and points about things we have discussed on this listserve. I learn from all of you everyday! > > Wendy> > - Original Message - > From: Amy McGovern<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 10:35 PM> Subject: RE: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts> > > Hi Wendy,> I am wondering how many guided reading groups some of the other teachers in your building have. > Sometimes teachers have too many groups. When this is the case, sharing kids is a very good solution. I work with teachers who have 7 groups in one class. They have been doing this so long that they no longer see the problem with only getting face time with each group for a few minutes per day. They resist the suggestion that there could be another way. It's hard to change. But sometimes the change has greater benefits for all the kids. It may be hard for the teacher, but it could work for the kids. Personally, I would rather have fewer groups and get more face time per group, to really discuss and digest strategies and stories.> > I've been consulting for several years now. The most successful buildings I've worked in share the kids. My building had a building wide reading time from 8:30 to 10:00AM. The kids moved to different rooms for the reading block. We got excellent results. It can work when teachers take a team approach and work hard to communicate.> > Amy715-453-6509> > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> > Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:53:35 -0500> > Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts> > > > You are so right, Bev! I have been sent very thoughtful replies and I > > appreciate everyone who gave their two cents. I know that it isn't good for > > kids, but I also know I need to go in to the next meeting well prepared to > > defend my position. I have great questions to ask and experience and > > research to cite. Thanks so much to everyone..I knew I could count on you!> > > > Wendy> > > > > > >From: "Beverlee Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > >Reply-To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email > > >Group"> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies > > >Email Group"> > >Su
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
I have never heard that cross grade level grouping is illegal. And I've worked in many buildings that do it. There are legal issues when it comes to special ed teachers taking non-special ed students. but I suspect those laws are different in every state. As for tracking. If you do it right, cross grade level grouping allows a staff more groups and more options for moving kids based on their needs. Kids should never be given a life sentence. Low readers should be with the best possilbe teachers and the goal should be to accelerate them- there are so many ways to do that. But it takes highly skilled teaching--and the belief that gaps can in fact be closed. Amy > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:05:27 -0500> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts> > If we do the across grade-level grouping, some people have said to me that it's tracking and that is illegal. Since all of our kids are in for the whole group lesson then that must get around that some how. I'm not sure of all the legal terms and I think we all call it something different so I don't know what is against the law and what is not.> > Wendy> - Original Message - > From: susan donnelly<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> > Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 12:28 PM> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts> > > Wait I agree with Renee > also Isnt this against Inclusion policies for all kids ?> meaning isnt this against the law ?> Susan Donnelly > > --- On Sat, 10/11/08, Renee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:> > From: Renee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts> To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group" mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org>>> Date: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 11:10 AM> > Wait a minute.> > If the high kids are taken out, and the kids with IEPs are taken out, > then you are already left with only part of your class and it seems to > me that it is a PERFECT opportunity for you to go over, reteach, > extend, or clarify lessons already taught, AND/OR to have kids doing > some independent activities while you confer with them individually. I > think your principal doesn't know what the heck he is talking about.> > Renee <-- obviously cranky and getting more and more impatient with > incompetent administrators> > On Oct 11, 2008, at 8:42 AM, Wendy Jensen wrote:> > > Sorry, Amy! I emailed back to you personally and meant to do it to > > the listserv. I wanted to share our exact set up with all of you who > > have been so great in responding to my concerns over this issue. We > > have a 90 minute literacy block that is to include phonics, spelling, > > and reading. EVERY child is in the classroom for whole group reading > > instruction. When whole group is over, the top kids leave for > > instruction with the talented and gifted teacher (these are kids from > > each 2nd grade classroom), kids with IEPs leave to work with their > > teacher and we also have a reading interventionist who takes low kids > > if needed. The kids that are left in the room have differentiated > > instruction whether it be guided reading, independent > > reading/conferences, or small group skill work. However, our > > principal wants to take those kids that are still in our room and > > split them apart into different classrooms based on their ability > > level. If we are all already differentiating with the kids that are > > still in the room, why would we need to break it down further? Then > > it is just a matter of logistics. I feel that a lot of this is just > > "buzz words". We should be doing it because it is the latest> thing, > > not because we have proof that it works for or is good for kids. I > > am not opposed to maybe trying this set-up in a different part of the > > day for a short amount of time. I want to thank you all again for > > your insights on both sides of the issue. I have started making a > > list of questions for the administration and points about things we > > have discussed on this listserve. I learn from all of you everyday!> >> > Wendy> >> > - Original Message -----> > From: Amy McGovern<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> > To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email > > Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org>>> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[E
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
I would like advice on this too. I have 32 students in my at-risk classroom. Their F&P reading levels are mainly H-M, but I have a student who is at B/C (we think he is cognitively impaired, but can't test him until Jan. and a girl who is at E:( I have 7 groups for centers/guided reading (they are in 1 group together along with higher kids) and I pull them (the 2 low ones) individually each day for their own guided reading time. Switching them with another class is pretty much not an option, as my school does not have the capability to switch because of how crowded we are and how the special schedule is. I don't want them missing math/writing every day for reading as they all are important. Any ideas are welcome. Thanks in advance! :) Ellen:)/2nd grade/MI E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MODERATOR of yahoo group: ITEACHPRIMARY Proud owner of: www.geocities.com/iteachprimary (updated 8/4/08), www.geocities.com/beachteach2007 (updated 8/11/08) www.geocities.com/campingteacher2006/ (updated 7/28/07) www.geocities.com/learningcenters2003 (updated 12/3/07) www.geocities.com/michstudies (updated 5/22/07) ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
Exactly my point, Renee! We even said in the meeting "Don't we already do that?" But he wants to break it down even further. I have no other problems with him except that he doesn't get k-3 reading at all. He says he is trying but again I think he picks up on buzz words and thinks that should be the answer. I can't wait to hear the reasoning behind wanting to do reading this way. That will be my very first question at our next meeting. I am also growing weary of administrators who refuse to get it, and worse, don't even try. Wendy - Original Message - From: Renee<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts Wait a minute. If the high kids are taken out, and the kids with IEPs are taken out, then you are already left with only part of your class and it seems to me that it is a PERFECT opportunity for you to go over, reteach, extend, or clarify lessons already taught, AND/OR to have kids doing some independent activities while you confer with them individually. I think your principal doesn't know what the heck he is talking about. Renee <-- obviously cranky and getting more and more impatient with incompetent administrators On Oct 11, 2008, at 8:42 AM, Wendy Jensen wrote: > Sorry, Amy! I emailed back to you personally and meant to do it to > the listserv. I wanted to share our exact set up with all of you who > have been so great in responding to my concerns over this issue. We > have a 90 minute literacy block that is to include phonics, spelling, > and reading. EVERY child is in the classroom for whole group reading > instruction. When whole group is over, the top kids leave for > instruction with the talented and gifted teacher (these are kids from > each 2nd grade classroom), kids with IEPs leave to work with their > teacher and we also have a reading interventionist who takes low kids > if needed. The kids that are left in the room have differentiated > instruction whether it be guided reading, independent > reading/conferences, or small group skill work. However, our > principal wants to take those kids that are still in our room and > split them apart into different classrooms based on their ability > level. If we are all already differentiating with the kids that are > still in the room, why would we need to break it down further? Then > it is just a matter of logistics. I feel that a lot of this is just > "buzz words". We should be doing it because it is the latest thing, > not because we have proof that it works for or is good for kids.I > am not opposed to maybe trying this set-up in a different part of the > day for a short amount of time. I want to thank you all again for > your insights on both sides of the issue. I have started making a > list of questions for the administration and points about things we > have discussed on this listserve. I learn from all of you everyday! > > Wendy > > - Original Message - > From: Amy McGovern<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email > Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org>> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 10:35 PM > Subject: RE: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts > > > Hi Wendy, > I am wondering how many guided reading groups some of the other > teachers in your building have. > Sometimes teachers have too many groups. When this is the case, > sharing kids is a very good solution. I work with teachers who have 7 > groups in one class. They have been doing this so long that they no > longer see the problem with only getting face time with each group for > a few minutes per day. They resist the suggestion that there could be > another way. It's hard to change. But sometimes the change has > greater benefits for all the kids. It may be hard for the teacher, > but it could work for the kids. Personally, I would rather have fewer > groups and get more face time per group, to really discuss and digest > strategies and stories. > > I've been consulting for several years now. The most successful > buildings I've worked in share the kids. My building had a building > wide reading time from 8:30 to 10:00AM. The kids moved to different > rooms
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
Hi Wendy, This kind of "grouping" is not new. In fact, it's very old and so I'm surprised it's rearing its ugly head given all the research that has been done showing that grouping kids by ability doesn't work. Especially because even if you promise that you will change groups often, it's not likely to happen in practice: kids stay in the same group all year and sometimes throughout their entire school careers. Children, especially young children, are better served by their classroom teacher in a room with other learners who are all at different levels in their development. If you are differentiating then, I agree with you, why change the way things are? Isn't differentiating the old-new buzz word? Elisa Elisa Waingort Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual Dalhousie Elementary Calgary, Canada I feel that a lot of this is just "buzz words". We should be doing it because it is the latest thing, not because we have proof that it works for or is good for kids. Wendy ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
If we do the across grade-level grouping, some people have said to me that it's tracking and that is illegal. Since all of our kids are in for the whole group lesson then that must get around that some how. I'm not sure of all the legal terms and I think we all call it something different so I don't know what is against the law and what is not. Wendy - Original Message - From: susan donnelly<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 12:28 PM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts Wait I agree with Renee also Isnt this against Inclusion policies for all kids ? meaning isnt this against the law ? Susan Donnelly --- On Sat, 10/11/08, Renee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: From: Renee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group" mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org>> Date: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 11:10 AM Wait a minute. If the high kids are taken out, and the kids with IEPs are taken out, then you are already left with only part of your class and it seems to me that it is a PERFECT opportunity for you to go over, reteach, extend, or clarify lessons already taught, AND/OR to have kids doing some independent activities while you confer with them individually. I think your principal doesn't know what the heck he is talking about. Renee <-- obviously cranky and getting more and more impatient with incompetent administrators On Oct 11, 2008, at 8:42 AM, Wendy Jensen wrote: > Sorry, Amy! I emailed back to you personally and meant to do it to > the listserv. I wanted to share our exact set up with all of you who > have been so great in responding to my concerns over this issue. We > have a 90 minute literacy block that is to include phonics, spelling, > and reading. EVERY child is in the classroom for whole group reading > instruction. When whole group is over, the top kids leave for > instruction with the talented and gifted teacher (these are kids from > each 2nd grade classroom), kids with IEPs leave to work with their > teacher and we also have a reading interventionist who takes low kids > if needed. The kids that are left in the room have differentiated > instruction whether it be guided reading, independent > reading/conferences, or small group skill work. However, our > principal wants to take those kids that are still in our room and > split them apart into different classrooms based on their ability > level. If we are all already differentiating with the kids that are > still in the room, why would we need to break it down further? Then > it is just a matter of logistics. I feel that a lot of this is just > "buzz words". We should be doing it because it is the latest thing, > not because we have proof that it works for or is good for kids.I > am not opposed to maybe trying this set-up in a different part of the > day for a short amount of time. I want to thank you all again for > your insights on both sides of the issue. I have started making a > list of questions for the administration and points about things we > have discussed on this listserve. I learn from all of you everyday! > > Wendy > > - Original Message - > From: Amy McGovern<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email > Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org>> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 10:35 PM > Subject: RE: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts > > > Hi Wendy, > I am wondering how many guided reading groups some of the other > teachers in your building have. > Sometimes teachers have too many groups. When this is the case, > sharing kids is a very good solution. I work with teachers who have 7 > groups in one class. They have been doing this so long that they no > longer see the problem with only getting face time with each group for > a few minutes per day. They resist the suggestion that there could be > another way. It's hard to change. But sometimes the change has > greater benefits for all the kids. It may be hard for the teacher, > but it could work for the kids. Personally, I would rather have fewer > groups and get more face time per group, to really di
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
Wait I agree with Renee also Isnt this against Inclusion policies for all kids ? meaning isnt this against the law ? Susan Donnelly --- On Sat, 10/11/08, Renee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Renee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group" Date: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 11:10 AM Wait a minute. If the high kids are taken out, and the kids with IEPs are taken out, then you are already left with only part of your class and it seems to me that it is a PERFECT opportunity for you to go over, reteach, extend, or clarify lessons already taught, AND/OR to have kids doing some independent activities while you confer with them individually. I think your principal doesn't know what the heck he is talking about. Renee <-- obviously cranky and getting more and more impatient with incompetent administrators On Oct 11, 2008, at 8:42 AM, Wendy Jensen wrote: > Sorry, Amy! I emailed back to you personally and meant to do it to > the listserv. I wanted to share our exact set up with all of you who > have been so great in responding to my concerns over this issue. We > have a 90 minute literacy block that is to include phonics, spelling, > and reading. EVERY child is in the classroom for whole group reading > instruction. When whole group is over, the top kids leave for > instruction with the talented and gifted teacher (these are kids from > each 2nd grade classroom), kids with IEPs leave to work with their > teacher and we also have a reading interventionist who takes low kids > if needed. The kids that are left in the room have differentiated > instruction whether it be guided reading, independent > reading/conferences, or small group skill work. However, our > principal wants to take those kids that are still in our room and > split them apart into different classrooms based on their ability > level. If we are all already differentiating with the kids that are > still in the room, why would we need to break it down further? Then > it is just a matter of logistics. I feel that a lot of this is just > "buzz words". We should be doing it because it is the latest thing, > not because we have proof that it works for or is good for kids.I > am not opposed to maybe trying this set-up in a different part of the > day for a short amount of time. I want to thank you all again for > your insights on both sides of the issue. I have started making a > list of questions for the administration and points about things we > have discussed on this listserve. I learn from all of you everyday! > > Wendy > > - Original Message - > From: Amy McGovern<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email > Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 10:35 PM > Subject: RE: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts > > > Hi Wendy, > I am wondering how many guided reading groups some of the other > teachers in your building have. > Sometimes teachers have too many groups. When this is the case, > sharing kids is a very good solution. I work with teachers who have 7 > groups in one class. They have been doing this so long that they no > longer see the problem with only getting face time with each group for > a few minutes per day. They resist the suggestion that there could be > another way. It's hard to change. But sometimes the change has > greater benefits for all the kids. It may be hard for the teacher, > but it could work for the kids. Personally, I would rather have fewer > groups and get more face time per group, to really discuss and digest > strategies and stories. > > I've been consulting for several years now. The most successful > buildings I've worked in share the kids. My building had a building > wide reading time from 8:30 to 10:00AM. The kids moved to different > rooms for the reading block. We got excellent results. It can work > when teachers take a team approach and work hard to communicate. > > Amy715-453-6509 > > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org >> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:53:35 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts >> >> You are so right, Bev! I have been sent very thoughtful replies and I >> appreciate everyone who gave their two cents. I know that it isn't >> good for >> kids, but I also know I need to go in to the next meeting well >> prepared to >> defend my position. I have great questions to ask and experience and >> research to cite
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
Wait a minute. If the high kids are taken out, and the kids with IEPs are taken out, then you are already left with only part of your class and it seems to me that it is a PERFECT opportunity for you to go over, reteach, extend, or clarify lessons already taught, AND/OR to have kids doing some independent activities while you confer with them individually. I think your principal doesn't know what the heck he is talking about. Renee <-- obviously cranky and getting more and more impatient with incompetent administrators On Oct 11, 2008, at 8:42 AM, Wendy Jensen wrote: > Sorry, Amy! I emailed back to you personally and meant to do it to > the listserv. I wanted to share our exact set up with all of you who > have been so great in responding to my concerns over this issue. We > have a 90 minute literacy block that is to include phonics, spelling, > and reading. EVERY child is in the classroom for whole group reading > instruction. When whole group is over, the top kids leave for > instruction with the talented and gifted teacher (these are kids from > each 2nd grade classroom), kids with IEPs leave to work with their > teacher and we also have a reading interventionist who takes low kids > if needed. The kids that are left in the room have differentiated > instruction whether it be guided reading, independent > reading/conferences, or small group skill work. However, our > principal wants to take those kids that are still in our room and > split them apart into different classrooms based on their ability > level. If we are all already differentiating with the kids that are > still in the room, why would we need to break it down further? Then > it is just a matter of logistics. I feel that a lot of this is just > "buzz words". We should be doing it because it is the latest thing, > not because we have proof that it works for or is good for kids.I > am not opposed to maybe trying this set-up in a different part of the > day for a short amount of time. I want to thank you all again for > your insights on both sides of the issue. I have started making a > list of questions for the administration and points about things we > have discussed on this listserve. I learn from all of you everyday! > > Wendy > > - Original Message - > From: Amy McGovern<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email > Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 10:35 PM > Subject: RE: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts > > > Hi Wendy, > I am wondering how many guided reading groups some of the other > teachers in your building have. > Sometimes teachers have too many groups. When this is the case, > sharing kids is a very good solution. I work with teachers who have 7 > groups in one class. They have been doing this so long that they no > longer see the problem with only getting face time with each group for > a few minutes per day. They resist the suggestion that there could be > another way. It's hard to change. But sometimes the change has > greater benefits for all the kids. It may be hard for the teacher, > but it could work for the kids. Personally, I would rather have fewer > groups and get more face time per group, to really discuss and digest > strategies and stories. > > I've been consulting for several years now. The most successful > buildings I've worked in share the kids. My building had a building > wide reading time from 8:30 to 10:00AM. The kids moved to different > rooms for the reading block. We got excellent results. It can work > when teachers take a team approach and work hard to communicate. > > Amy715-453-6509 > > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org >> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:53:35 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts >> >> You are so right, Bev! I have been sent very thoughtful replies and I >> appreciate everyone who gave their two cents. I know that it isn't >> good for >> kids, but I also know I need to go in to the next meeting well >> prepared to >> defend my position. I have great questions to ask and experience and >> research to cite. Thanks so much to everyone..I knew I could count on >> you! >> >> Wendy >> >> >>> From: "Beverlee Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> Reply-To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email >>> Group" >>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension >>> Strategies >&g
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
Sorry, Amy! I emailed back to you personally and meant to do it to the listserv. I wanted to share our exact set up with all of you who have been so great in responding to my concerns over this issue. We have a 90 minute literacy block that is to include phonics, spelling, and reading. EVERY child is in the classroom for whole group reading instruction. When whole group is over, the top kids leave for instruction with the talented and gifted teacher (these are kids from each 2nd grade classroom), kids with IEPs leave to work with their teacher and we also have a reading interventionist who takes low kids if needed. The kids that are left in the room have differentiated instruction whether it be guided reading, independent reading/conferences, or small group skill work. However, our principal wants to take those kids that are still in our room and split them apart into different classrooms based on their ability level. If we are all already differentiating with the kids that are still in the room, why would we need to break it down further? Then it is just a matter of logistics. I feel that a lot of this is just "buzz words". We should be doing it because it is the latest thing, not because we have proof that it works for or is good for kids.I am not opposed to maybe trying this set-up in a different part of the day for a short amount of time. I want to thank you all again for your insights on both sides of the issue. I have started making a list of questions for the administration and points about things we have discussed on this listserve. I learn from all of you everyday! Wendy - Original Message - From: Amy McGovern<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 10:35 PM Subject: RE: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts Hi Wendy, I am wondering how many guided reading groups some of the other teachers in your building have. Sometimes teachers have too many groups. When this is the case, sharing kids is a very good solution. I work with teachers who have 7 groups in one class. They have been doing this so long that they no longer see the problem with only getting face time with each group for a few minutes per day. They resist the suggestion that there could be another way. It's hard to change. But sometimes the change has greater benefits for all the kids. It may be hard for the teacher, but it could work for the kids. Personally, I would rather have fewer groups and get more face time per group, to really discuss and digest strategies and stories. I've been consulting for several years now. The most successful buildings I've worked in share the kids. My building had a building wide reading time from 8:30 to 10:00AM. The kids moved to different rooms for the reading block. We got excellent results. It can work when teachers take a team approach and work hard to communicate. Amy715-453-6509 > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:53:35 -0500 > Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts > > You are so right, Bev! I have been sent very thoughtful replies and I > appreciate everyone who gave their two cents. I know that it isn't good for > kids, but I also know I need to go in to the next meeting well prepared to > defend my position. I have great questions to ask and experience and > research to cite. Thanks so much to everyone..I knew I could count on you! > > Wendy > > > >From: "Beverlee Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email > >Group" > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies > >Email Group" > >Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts > >Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 07:11:16 -0600 > > > >Hi Wendy - You've gotten such thoughtful replies, and I'd like to kind of > >sum up my experience and these replies and say: I think he'd need to have > >a > >truly compelling reason (not an excuse) to change to this and I think he'd > >have kind of a hard time doing so. He needs to think, "In what way would > >these children be better served out of the classroom rather than in the > >classroom?" If there's no really good answer, I think the conclusion is > >obvious. Bev > > > >On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:16 PM, chelo echaves > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > > > > hello Wendy > > > I am not a teacher in the sense that most of you here are but I love > > > reading and am involve
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
Hi Wendy, I am wondering how many guided reading groups some of the other teachers in your building have. Sometimes teachers have too many groups. When this is the case, sharing kids is a very good solution. I work with teachers who have 7 groups in one class. They have been doing this so long that they no longer see the problem with only getting face time with each group for a few minutes per day. They resist the suggestion that there could be another way. It's hard to change. But sometimes the change has greater benefits for all the kids. It may be hard for the teacher, but it could work for the kids. Personally, I would rather have fewer groups and get more face time per group, to really discuss and digest strategies and stories. I've been consulting for several years now. The most successful buildings I've worked in share the kids. My building had a building wide reading time from 8:30 to 10:00AM. The kids moved to different rooms for the reading block. We got excellent results. It can work when teachers take a team approach and work hard to communicate.Amy> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:53:35 -0500> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts> > You are so right, Bev! I have been sent very thoughtful replies and I > appreciate everyone who gave their two cents. I know that it isn't good for > kids, but I also know I need to go in to the next meeting well prepared to > defend my position. I have great questions to ask and experience and > research to cite. Thanks so much to everyone..I knew I could count on you!> > Wendy> > > >From: "Beverlee Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >Reply-To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email > >Group"> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies > >Email Group"> >Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts> >Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 07:11:16 -0600> >> >Hi Wendy - You've gotten such thoughtful replies, and I'd like to kind of> >sum up my experience and these replies and say: I think he'd need to have > >a> >truly compelling reason (not an excuse) to change to this and I think he'd> >have kind of a hard time doing so. He needs to think, "In what way would> >these children be better served out of the classroom rather than in the> >classroom?" If there's no really good answer, I think the conclusion is> >obvious. Bev> >> >On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:16 PM, chelo echaves > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:> >> > > hello Wendy> > > I am not a teacher in the sense that most of you here are but I love> > > reading and am involved in our own Public Library here in Cebu City,> > > Philippines. My love for reading is whats keeping me here at MOSAIC :-) > >I> > > learn alot here and not just about reading. I learn about people's> > > generosity and bigness of heart always trying to find ways to help and> > > better themselves in order to be better at helping children > >read-Amazing!> > > Anyways, experiencially I do this-I do what my gut feel tells me to do. > >You> > > are your best and worst critic but I can sense your deep love for > >children> > > to find their way through reading. so I am definite you will do whats > >best.> > > Blessings> > > Chelo> > >> > > --- On Thu, 9/10/08, Wendy Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> > >> > > From: Wendy Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > Subject: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts> > > To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email" <> > > mosaic@literacyworkshop.org>> > > Date: Thursday, 9 October, 2008, 6:19 AM> > >> > > My principal just asked us (again) today about how we would feel about> > > ability> > > grouping kids for reading across a grade level. So, all the low kids go > >to> > > one> > > of the 2nd grade teachers, all the low-mid go to a different 2nd grade> > > teacher,> > > all the middle kids go to another 2nd grade teacher and so on. We would > >do> > > this> > > during a time in our reading block when the ELP or TAG kids leave the > >room> > > and> > > the lowest kids leave the room for extra help. I'm not really thrilled> > > with> > > this idea and many teachers in the building feel the same way. Do any > >of> > > you do> > > this grouping within your reader's workshop? I just don't think it is> > > the appropriate time
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
Hi Wendy, I am wondering how many guided reading groups some of the other teachers in your building have. Sometimes teachers have too many groups. When this is the case, sharing kids is a very good solution. I work with teachers who have 7 groups in one class. They have been doing this so long that they no longer see the problem with only getting face time with each group for a few minutes per day. They resist the suggestion that there could be another way. It's hard to change. But sometimes the change has greater benefits for all the kids. It may be hard for the teacher, but it could work for the kids. Personally, I would rather have fewer groups and get more face time per group, to really discuss and digest strategies and stories. I've been consulting for several years now. The most successful buildings I've worked in share the kids. My building had a building wide reading time from 8:30 to 10:00AM. The kids moved to different rooms for the reading block. We got excellent results. It can work when teachers take a team approach and work hard to communicate.Amy715-453-6509> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:53:35 -0500> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts> > You are so right, Bev! I have been sent very thoughtful replies and I > appreciate everyone who gave their two cents. I know that it isn't good for > kids, but I also know I need to go in to the next meeting well prepared to > defend my position. I have great questions to ask and experience and > research to cite. Thanks so much to everyone..I knew I could count on you!> > Wendy> > > >From: "Beverlee Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >Reply-To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email > >Group"> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies > >Email Group"> >Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts> >Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 07:11:16 -0600> >> >Hi Wendy - You've gotten such thoughtful replies, and I'd like to kind of> >sum up my experience and these replies and say: I think he'd need to have > >a> >truly compelling reason (not an excuse) to change to this and I think he'd> >have kind of a hard time doing so. He needs to think, "In what way would> >these children be better served out of the classroom rather than in the> >classroom?" If there's no really good answer, I think the conclusion is> >obvious. Bev> >> >On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:16 PM, chelo echaves > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:> >> > > hello Wendy> > > I am not a teacher in the sense that most of you here are but I love> > > reading and am involved in our own Public Library here in Cebu City,> > > Philippines. My love for reading is whats keeping me here at MOSAIC :-) > >I> > > learn alot here and not just about reading. I learn about people's> > > generosity and bigness of heart always trying to find ways to help and> > > better themselves in order to be better at helping children > >read-Amazing!> > > Anyways, experiencially I do this-I do what my gut feel tells me to do. > >You> > > are your best and worst critic but I can sense your deep love for > >children> > > to find their way through reading. so I am definite you will do whats > >best.> > > Blessings> > > Chelo> > >> > > --- On Thu, 9/10/08, Wendy Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> > >> > > From: Wendy Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > Subject: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts> > > To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email" <> > > mosaic@literacyworkshop.org>> > > Date: Thursday, 9 October, 2008, 6:19 AM> > >> > > My principal just asked us (again) today about how we would feel about> > > ability> > > grouping kids for reading across a grade level. So, all the low kids go > >to> > > one> > > of the 2nd grade teachers, all the low-mid go to a different 2nd grade> > > teacher,> > > all the middle kids go to another 2nd grade teacher and so on. We would > >do> > > this> > > during a time in our reading block when the ELP or TAG kids leave the > >room> > > and> > > the lowest kids leave the room for extra help. I'm not really thrilled> > > with> > > this idea and many teachers in the building feel the same way. Do any > >of> > > you do> > > this grouping within your reader's workshop? I just don't think it is> > > the ap
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
You are so right, Bev! I have been sent very thoughtful replies and I appreciate everyone who gave their two cents. I know that it isn't good for kids, but I also know I need to go in to the next meeting well prepared to defend my position. I have great questions to ask and experience and research to cite. Thanks so much to everyone..I knew I could count on you! Wendy >From: "Beverlee Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email >Group" >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies >Email Group" >Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts >Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 07:11:16 -0600 > >Hi Wendy - You've gotten such thoughtful replies, and I'd like to kind of >sum up my experience and these replies and say: I think he'd need to have >a >truly compelling reason (not an excuse) to change to this and I think he'd >have kind of a hard time doing so. He needs to think, "In what way would >these children be better served out of the classroom rather than in the >classroom?" If there's no really good answer, I think the conclusion is >obvious. Bev > >On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:16 PM, chelo echaves ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > > hello Wendy > > I am not a teacher in the sense that most of you here are but I love > > reading and am involved in our own Public Library here in Cebu City, > > Philippines. My love for reading is whats keeping me here at MOSAIC :-) >I > > learn alot here and not just about reading. I learn about people's > > generosity and bigness of heart always trying to find ways to help and > > better themselves in order to be better at helping children >read-Amazing! > > Anyways, experiencially I do this-I do what my gut feel tells me to do. >You > > are your best and worst critic but I can sense your deep love for >children > > to find their way through reading. so I am definite you will do whats >best. > > Blessings > > Chelo > > > > --- On Thu, 9/10/08, Wendy Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > From: Wendy Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts > > To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email" < > > mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> > > Date: Thursday, 9 October, 2008, 6:19 AM > > > > My principal just asked us (again) today about how we would feel about > > ability > > grouping kids for reading across a grade level. So, all the low kids go >to > > one > > of the 2nd grade teachers, all the low-mid go to a different 2nd grade > > teacher, > > all the middle kids go to another 2nd grade teacher and so on. We would >do > > this > > during a time in our reading block when the ELP or TAG kids leave the >room > > and > > the lowest kids leave the room for extra help. I'm not really thrilled > > with > > this idea and many teachers in the building feel the same way. Do any >of > > you do > > this grouping within your reader's workshop? I just don't think it is > > the appropriate time to do that. I've worked hard to train my kids how > > reader's workshop runs, they get to choose books, and have longer >periods > > of > > time to read. Many of the teachers in the building do small guided >groups, > > however, I am the only one using a reader's workshop approach. He has > > brought this topic to the table time and time again and we always tell >him > > we > > don't want to use that approach, but for some reason he keeps pushing >it. > > I > > realize there's not just one way to teach reading, but I've seen such > > great results with reader's workshop and comprehension strategies that I > > would hate to see that all go away. I'd love your thoughts on this > > "set-up". I think if I have more input I might not judge it so > > harshly. My first reaction is NO WAY! Thanks in advance! > > > > Wendy > > ___ > > Mosaic mailing list > > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > > > > > > > > > New Email names for you! > > Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and >@rocketmail. > > Hurry before someo
[MOSAIC] RE (Mosaic) Your Thoughts
Wendy, We did this kind of grouping for almost ten years. It has pros and cons to it. We did think it worked at the time. Some years we had 6 groups at a grade level. Top, near top, middle, low middle, low, IEP. The low groups had low numbers and the high group often had 25 kids in the group. We are now Reading First, so all kids are in one room. I like it so much better. Kids help kids and learn from each other. When you just have kids in a reading group and not in homeroom, it is difficult to build relationships with kids and parents. If they miss or need help, it is also difficult to get to them. I had to do grades for 25 kids, and others for 6. Also, when it was conference time - it was difficult to talk about reading, if you weren't the one teaching that student. Also, if kids want to borrow books - it was hard to let them take them to another room. I lost books that way. The bottom line was - the scores didn't change as much as they have changed doing Reading First. I am also a reading strategy person who uses these strategies in my classroom and guided reading groups. Hope this helps, Linda Wendy wrote: My principal just asked us (again) today about how we would feel about ability grouping kids for reading across a grade level. So, all the low kids go to one of the 2nd grade teachers, all the low-mid go to a different 2nd grade teacher, all the middle kids go to another 2nd grade teacher and so on. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
[MOSAIC] RE (Mosaic) Your Thoughts
Wendy, We did this kind of grouping for almost ten years. It has pros and cons to it. We did think it worked at the time. Some years we had 6 groups at a grade level. Top, near top, middle, low middle, low, IEP. The low groups had low numbers and the high group often had 25 kids in the group. We are now Reading First, so all kids are in one room. I like it so much better. Kids help kids and learn from each other. When you just have kids in a reading group and not in homeroom, it is difficult to build relationships with kids and parents. If they miss or need help, it is also difficult to get to them. I had to do grades for 25 kids, and others for 6. Also, when it was conference time - it was difficult to talk about reading, if you weren't the one teaching that student. Also, if kids want to borrow books - it was hard to let them take them to another room. I lost books that way. The bottom line was - the scores didn't change as much as they have changed doing Reading First. I am also a reading strategy person who uses these strategies in my classroom and guided reading groups. Hope this helps, Linda Wendy wrote: My principal just asked us (again) today about how we would feel about ability grouping kids for reading across a grade level. So, all the low kids go to one of the 2nd grade teachers, all the low-mid go to a different 2nd grade teacher, all the middle kids go to another 2nd grade teacher and so on. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
Oh my goodness, I hope Renee and others didn't think I was responding to her. I guess I replied to the wrong thread of this; there are several going around. The post I was responding to was from someone who said that some teachers were FOR walking to reading because it made it easier for teachers to plan. To which my thoughts were - that's a doggone poor reason to structure reading programs like that. I'm sorry, Renee. On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 12:34 PM, ljackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It being an easy road for teachers certainly is not the message I got from > Renee. Teaching thematically is hardly 'easy'--good teaching, regardless > of > what might be imposed on us from affair, is never easy. But when kids, > particularly those who don's seem to come to learning with ease, are > disconnected from the curriculum or from one another, it is bound to be an > uphill struggle. > > Lori > > > On 10/9/08 8:00 AM, "Beverlee Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I think I'd just like to express this: What I'd consider as a good > reason > > to do such a thing would NOT include it being easier for teachers. > That's > > not why we're here. > > > > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 7:54 AM, Renee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> I would like to just throw a wrench into the works, or however that > >> metaphor goes. I have two objections to ability grouping across > >> classrooms. One is that research shows that the lower groups tend to > >> stay lower without role models. But that's not my main objection. > >> > >> My main objection is that it detracts from the overall classroom > >> community component of learning, as well as takes away from the > >> opportunity to extend beyond "reading time" in real, authentic ways. If > >> something comes up in reading that triggers a real, teachable moment, > >> it is useless because some of the kids go away in an hour, and other > >> kids (the ones who would have been there, otherwise) return, not having > >> been present when whatever it was came up. It makes it harder to teach > >> thematically in ways that truly connect to each other unless all the > >> teachers are doing the same thing, in which case there is no reason to > >> have been trading kids around. > >> > >> Just my two cents, again. > >> Renee > >> > >> > >> On Oct 8, 2008, at 7:49 PM, Wendy Jensen wrote: > >> > >>> Thanks for all your great thoughts and kind words on both sides of the > >>> coin. I love getting other perspectives because I don't always see > >>> the big picture right away. I think it is important to view all sides > >>> before jumping in. Especially when it comes to primary readers. > >>> Another question hit me as I was reading your responses. If within > >>> our own classrooms, we differentiate by doing individual conferences, > >>> small skill groups, and small guided groups that are flexible, what do > >>> you think would be the advantage to doing the across grade-level > >>> groupings instead? My first thought is that it is the same thing only > >>> different logistics. Also, does it rattle any of the kiddos to be > >>> moved from one classroom to another so often? What are your > >>> observations of this. It sounds like they handle it fine. I'm > >>> curious what you think because I would bet that this comes up in our > >>> discussions. I appreciate your responses and you have given me food > >>> for thought on the topic...keep it comin' > >>> > >>> Wendy > >>> - Original Message - > >>> From: elisa kifer<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; > >>> Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email > >>> Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 6:26 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts > >>> > >>> > >>> Regardless of whether the kids are pulled out by ability or you are > >>> grouping > >>> with your guided reading groups, I am a strong believer in pulling > >>> groups > >>> based on ability. BUT, more importantly, these groups MUST BE > >>> FLEXIBLE. If > >>> the groups are going to be flexible, then I think it would be great. > >>> Why > >>
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
One should never type with a headache!! Afar not affair, thought it does create some interesting mental images. On 10/9/08 12:34 PM, "ljackson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Teaching thematically is hardly 'easy'--good teaching, regardless of what might be imposed on us from affair, is never easy. -- Lori Jackson District Literacy Coach & Mentor Todd County School District Box 87 Mission SD 57555 http:www.tcsdk12.org ph. 605.856.2211 Literacies for All Summer Institute July 17-20. 2008 Tucson, Arizona ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
It being an easy road for teachers certainly is not the message I got from Renee. Teaching thematically is hardly 'easy'--good teaching, regardless of what might be imposed on us from affair, is never easy. But when kids, particularly those who don's seem to come to learning with ease, are disconnected from the curriculum or from one another, it is bound to be an uphill struggle. Lori On 10/9/08 8:00 AM, "Beverlee Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think I'd just like to express this: What I'd consider as a good reason > to do such a thing would NOT include it being easier for teachers. That's > not why we're here. > > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 7:54 AM, Renee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I would like to just throw a wrench into the works, or however that >> metaphor goes. I have two objections to ability grouping across >> classrooms. One is that research shows that the lower groups tend to >> stay lower without role models. But that's not my main objection. >> >> My main objection is that it detracts from the overall classroom >> community component of learning, as well as takes away from the >> opportunity to extend beyond "reading time" in real, authentic ways. If >> something comes up in reading that triggers a real, teachable moment, >> it is useless because some of the kids go away in an hour, and other >> kids (the ones who would have been there, otherwise) return, not having >> been present when whatever it was came up. It makes it harder to teach >> thematically in ways that truly connect to each other unless all the >> teachers are doing the same thing, in which case there is no reason to >> have been trading kids around. >> >> Just my two cents, again. >> Renee >> >> >> On Oct 8, 2008, at 7:49 PM, Wendy Jensen wrote: >> >>> Thanks for all your great thoughts and kind words on both sides of the >>> coin. I love getting other perspectives because I don't always see >>> the big picture right away. I think it is important to view all sides >>> before jumping in. Especially when it comes to primary readers. >>> Another question hit me as I was reading your responses. If within >>> our own classrooms, we differentiate by doing individual conferences, >>> small skill groups, and small guided groups that are flexible, what do >>> you think would be the advantage to doing the across grade-level >>> groupings instead? My first thought is that it is the same thing only >>> different logistics. Also, does it rattle any of the kiddos to be >>> moved from one classroom to another so often? What are your >>> observations of this. It sounds like they handle it fine. I'm >>> curious what you think because I would bet that this comes up in our >>> discussions. I appreciate your responses and you have given me food >>> for thought on the topic...keep it comin' >>> >>> Wendy >>> - Original Message - >>> From: elisa kifer<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; >>> Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email >>> Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 6:26 PM >>> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts >>> >>> >>> Regardless of whether the kids are pulled out by ability or you are >>> grouping >>> with your guided reading groups, I am a strong believer in pulling >>> groups >>> based on ability. BUT, more importantly, these groups MUST BE >>> FLEXIBLE. If >>> the groups are going to be flexible, then I think it would be great. >>> Why >>> hold your strong students back with skills and strategies they have >>> already >>> mastered, and vice versa. I use a similar technique. Some of my >>> very low >>> students go to a 2nd grade classroom for reading instruction, and >>> her top >>> kids come to me for reading instruction (3rd grade). Within our >>> classrooms, these students are in flexible guided reading groups. >>> It works >>> for us, and it helps with planning. >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 6:16 PM, chelo echaves >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >>> >>>> hello Wendy >>>> I am not a teacher in the sense that most of you here are but I love >>>> reading and am involved in our own Public Library here in Cebu
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
Wendy, Your principal is probably responding to RtI by suggesting this. I'd like to explain how we did something like this in our building, but it was in addition to our reading block - not in place of it. We developed something called an Rx or prescriptive block in reading for each grade level. Then teachers determined the specific needs of all the students and decided who would teach what. Support people assisted in the teaching as well. The topics ranged from letter reversals, inferring, enrichment to test prep. It depended on the grade level and student needs. Planning time as a grade level is key in this - perhaps he'll provide some coverage for you so it can be done during the day. Once the logistics are ironed out, it's time with kids. Pre/post tests were created by each teacher for the group they would be teaching. The teams decided on how long the Rx blocks would last. (Most decided on 6 weeks.) The next Rx block was planned again according to data collected and student needs. Perhaps you could suggest to him, this is something that could be approached outside of your reading block and more teachers may be willing to try it. That way, you are allowed to continue teaching reading the way you normally do and are meeting the specific needs of varied learners at the same time. Kelly AB On 10/8/08 6:19 PM, "Wendy Jensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: My principal just asked us (again) today about how we would feel about ability grouping kids for reading across a grade level. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts re abilty grouping during reading
I had a principal do the same thing. After a month or so, I refused and fought it hard, eventually getting my way. I also felt it fragmented my kids and my relationship with them. My curriculum was so integrated that I would refer to something that I taught in Reading and not everyone knew what I was talking about. I HATED it. Also, better yet, I wasn't going to be accountable for the teaching of the others. My name would be on everything related to those kids, including test scores. I truly didn't know whether something as been taught, let alone taught well. On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 7:35 AM, Beverlee Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > good one, Renee!! > > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 8:14 AM, Renee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Here's another thought. With all the frenzy over teacher > > accountability, I think this arrangement completely takes a teacher's > > accountability away, not only for reading, but across the board, for > > precisely the reason stated below. The teacher has an incomplete sense > > of the student unless she/he has the student for every subject during > > the day. So if I were forced to do this, and I had tenure, then I would > > consider going to my principal and telling him/her that I could not be > > accountable for any students who leave my room during the day. > > > > heh > > Renee > > > > On Oct 9, 2008, at 6:49 AM, STEWART, L wrote: > > > > > Our principal also had us group kids by ability and send them out to > > > other teachers for reading instruction. The purpose was to raise our > > > state test scores. Some of our first and second grade teachers seemed > > > to like this arrangement. It was "easier" and didn't require as much > > > planning, because they were only planning for one level or book. > > > However, many of them were new teachers and had not taught reading any > > > other way. Then the policy came up to third grade and fourth grade to > > > a group of veteran teachers and it only lasted one year. I really > > > felt like I lost out on truly "knowing" my children who left for > > > reading. I was never quite as sure of where they were and how far I > > > could "push them. I felt it truly fractured our classroom. They were > > > not with me for the rich discussion that evolves from reading > > > wonderful text together. I also had to spend more time on classroom > > > routine and expectations for behavior, as the children coming to me > > > were from four different teachers with different teaching styles. > > > Even though we are now ability grouped within the room for guided > > > reading, we come together for whole group lessons and we learn from > > > each other. I also think that if you only teach struggling readers > > > after a while it becomes difficult to remember where the bar should be > > > set and I think you can lose sight of what your children may be > > > capable of with your support and instruction. Our new assistant > > > superintendent in charge of curriculum does not allow any grade level > > > to send children to other classrooms for reading instruction. > > > > > > Leslie > > > > > > "When we do the best that we can, we never know what miracle is > > > wrought in our life, or in the life of another." --Helen Keller > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Mosaic mailing list > > > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > > > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > > > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/ > > > mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > > > > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > > > > > > > "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect > > Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the > > common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings > > of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this > > Constitution for the United States of America." > > > > > > > > ___ > > Mosaic mailing list > > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > > > > ___ > Mosaic mailing list > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > -- Kim --- Kimberlee Hannan 7th CORE-ELA & WH Sequoia Middle School Fresno, California 93702 The best teachers teach from the heart, not from the book. ~Author Unknown [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts re abilty grouping during reading
good one, Renee!! On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 8:14 AM, Renee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here's another thought. With all the frenzy over teacher > accountability, I think this arrangement completely takes a teacher's > accountability away, not only for reading, but across the board, for > precisely the reason stated below. The teacher has an incomplete sense > of the student unless she/he has the student for every subject during > the day. So if I were forced to do this, and I had tenure, then I would > consider going to my principal and telling him/her that I could not be > accountable for any students who leave my room during the day. > > heh > Renee > > On Oct 9, 2008, at 6:49 AM, STEWART, L wrote: > > > Our principal also had us group kids by ability and send them out to > > other teachers for reading instruction. The purpose was to raise our > > state test scores. Some of our first and second grade teachers seemed > > to like this arrangement. It was "easier" and didn't require as much > > planning, because they were only planning for one level or book. > > However, many of them were new teachers and had not taught reading any > > other way. Then the policy came up to third grade and fourth grade to > > a group of veteran teachers and it only lasted one year. I really > > felt like I lost out on truly "knowing" my children who left for > > reading. I was never quite as sure of where they were and how far I > > could "push them. I felt it truly fractured our classroom. They were > > not with me for the rich discussion that evolves from reading > > wonderful text together. I also had to spend more time on classroom > > routine and expectations for behavior, as the children coming to me > > were from four different teachers with different teaching styles. > > Even though we are now ability grouped within the room for guided > > reading, we come together for whole group lessons and we learn from > > each other. I also think that if you only teach struggling readers > > after a while it becomes difficult to remember where the bar should be > > set and I think you can lose sight of what your children may be > > capable of with your support and instruction. Our new assistant > > superintendent in charge of curriculum does not allow any grade level > > to send children to other classrooms for reading instruction. > > > > Leslie > > > > "When we do the best that we can, we never know what miracle is > > wrought in our life, or in the life of another." --Helen Keller > > > > > > ___ > > Mosaic mailing list > > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/ > > mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > > > > "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect > Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the > common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings > of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this > Constitution for the United States of America." > > > > ___ > Mosaic mailing list > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
I think that's called "bull" :-) Renee On Oct 9, 2008, at 7:10 AM, Carol Carlson wrote: > We had a consultant in our district who said that "research shows > that teachers can only handle three groups for differentiation". > > Where did that come from? Does anyone know about this research? He is > a learning theorist, I think, so maybe it has to do with learning > theory? > > Carol > > On Oct 9, 2008, at 9:00 AM, Beverlee Paul wrote: > >> I think I'd just like to express this: What I'd consider as a >> good reason >> to do such a thing would NOT include it being easier for teachers. >> That's >> not why we're here. >> >> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 7:54 AM, Renee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> >>> I would like to just throw a wrench into the works, or however that >>> metaphor goes. I have two objections to ability grouping across >>> classrooms. One is that research shows that the lower groups tend to >>> stay lower without role models. But that's not my main objection. >>> >>> My main objection is that it detracts from the overall classroom >>> community component of learning, as well as takes away from the >>> opportunity to extend beyond "reading time" in real, authentic >>> ways. If >>> something comes up in reading that triggers a real, teachable moment, >>> it is useless because some of the kids go away in an hour, and other >>> kids (the ones who would have been there, otherwise) return, not >>> having >>> been present when whatever it was came up. It makes it harder to >>> teach >>> thematically in ways that truly connect to each other unless all the >>> teachers are doing the same thing, in which case there is no >>> reason to >>> have been trading kids around. >>> >>> Just my two cents, again. >>> Renee >>> >>> >>> On Oct 8, 2008, at 7:49 PM, Wendy Jensen wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for all your great thoughts and kind words on both sides >>>> of the >>>> coin. I love getting other perspectives because I don't always see >>>> the big picture right away. I think it is important to view all >>>> sides >>>> before jumping in. Especially when it comes to primary readers. >>>> Another question hit me as I was reading your responses. If within >>>> our own classrooms, we differentiate by doing individual >>>> conferences, >>>> small skill groups, and small guided groups that are flexible, >>>> what do >>>> you think would be the advantage to doing the across grade-level >>>> groupings instead? My first thought is that it is the same thing >>>> only >>>> different logistics. Also, does it rattle any of the kiddos to be >>>> moved from one classroom to another so often? What are your >>>> observations of this. It sounds like they handle it fine. I'm >>>> curious what you think because I would bet that this comes up in our >>>> discussions. I appreciate your responses and you have given me food >>>> for thought on the topic...keep it comin' >>>> >>>> Wendy >>>> - Original Message - >>>> From: elisa kifer<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; >>>> Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email >>>> Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 6:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts >>>> >>>> >>>> Regardless of whether the kids are pulled out by ability or you >>>> are >>>> grouping >>>> with your guided reading groups, I am a strong believer in pulling >>>> groups >>>> based on ability. BUT, more importantly, these groups MUST BE >>>> FLEXIBLE. If >>>> the groups are going to be flexible, then I think it would be >>>> great. >>>> Why >>>> hold your strong students back with skills and strategies they >>>> have >>>> already >>>> mastered, and vice versa. I use a similar technique. Some of my >>>> very low >>>> students go to a 2nd grade classroom for reading instruction, and >>>> her top >>>> kids come to me for reading instruction (3rd grade). Within our >>>&g
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts re abilty grouping during reading
Here's another thought. With all the frenzy over teacher accountability, I think this arrangement completely takes a teacher's accountability away, not only for reading, but across the board, for precisely the reason stated below. The teacher has an incomplete sense of the student unless she/he has the student for every subject during the day. So if I were forced to do this, and I had tenure, then I would consider going to my principal and telling him/her that I could not be accountable for any students who leave my room during the day. heh Renee On Oct 9, 2008, at 6:49 AM, STEWART, L wrote: > Our principal also had us group kids by ability and send them out to > other teachers for reading instruction. The purpose was to raise our > state test scores. Some of our first and second grade teachers seemed > to like this arrangement. It was "easier" and didn't require as much > planning, because they were only planning for one level or book. > However, many of them were new teachers and had not taught reading any > other way. Then the policy came up to third grade and fourth grade to > a group of veteran teachers and it only lasted one year. I really > felt like I lost out on truly "knowing" my children who left for > reading. I was never quite as sure of where they were and how far I > could "push them. I felt it truly fractured our classroom. They were > not with me for the rich discussion that evolves from reading > wonderful text together. I also had to spend more time on classroom > routine and expectations for behavior, as the children coming to me > were from four different teachers with different teaching styles. > Even though we are now ability grouped within the room for guided > reading, we come together for whole group lessons and we learn from > each other. I also think that if you only teach struggling readers > after a while it becomes difficult to remember where the bar should be > set and I think you can lose sight of what your children may be > capable of with your support and instruction. Our new assistant > superintendent in charge of curriculum does not allow any grade level > to send children to other classrooms for reading instruction. > > Leslie > > "When we do the best that we can, we never know what miracle is > wrought in our life, or in the life of another." --Helen Keller > > > ___ > Mosaic mailing list > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/ > mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
Beverlee, I absolutely agree with you, and hope my post was not inferring that that would be a good reason to do it. What I DO think, though, is that it IS a reason used by some teachers for doing things. Renee On Oct 9, 2008, at 7:00 AM, Beverlee Paul wrote: > I think I'd just like to express this: What I'd consider as a good > reason > to do such a thing would NOT include it being easier for teachers. > That's > not why we're here. > > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 7:54 AM, Renee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I would like to just throw a wrench into the works, or however that >> metaphor goes. I have two objections to ability grouping across >> classrooms. One is that research shows that the lower groups tend to >> stay lower without role models. But that's not my main objection. >> >> My main objection is that it detracts from the overall classroom >> community component of learning, as well as takes away from the >> opportunity to extend beyond "reading time" in real, authentic ways. >> If >> something comes up in reading that triggers a real, teachable moment, >> it is useless because some of the kids go away in an hour, and other >> kids (the ones who would have been there, otherwise) return, not >> having >> been present when whatever it was came up. It makes it harder to teach >> thematically in ways that truly connect to each other unless all the >> teachers are doing the same thing, in which case there is no reason to >> have been trading kids around. >> >> Just my two cents, again. >> Renee >> >> >> On Oct 8, 2008, at 7:49 PM, Wendy Jensen wrote: >> >>> Thanks for all your great thoughts and kind words on both sides of >>> the >>> coin. I love getting other perspectives because I don't always see >>> the big picture right away. I think it is important to view all >>> sides >>> before jumping in. Especially when it comes to primary readers. >>> Another question hit me as I was reading your responses. If within >>> our own classrooms, we differentiate by doing individual conferences, >>> small skill groups, and small guided groups that are flexible, what >>> do >>> you think would be the advantage to doing the across grade-level >>> groupings instead? My first thought is that it is the same thing >>> only >>> different logistics. Also, does it rattle any of the kiddos to be >>> moved from one classroom to another so often? What are your >>> observations of this. It sounds like they handle it fine. I'm >>> curious what you think because I would bet that this comes up in our >>> discussions. I appreciate your responses and you have given me food >>> for thought on the topic...keep it comin' >>> >>> Wendy >>> - Original Message - >>> From: elisa kifer<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; >>> Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email >>> Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 6:26 PM >>> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts >>> >>> >>> Regardless of whether the kids are pulled out by ability or you are >>> grouping >>> with your guided reading groups, I am a strong believer in pulling >>> groups >>> based on ability. BUT, more importantly, these groups MUST BE >>> FLEXIBLE. If >>> the groups are going to be flexible, then I think it would be >>> great. >>> Why >>> hold your strong students back with skills and strategies they have >>> already >>> mastered, and vice versa. I use a similar technique. Some of my >>> very low >>> students go to a 2nd grade classroom for reading instruction, and >>> her top >>> kids come to me for reading instruction (3rd grade). Within our >>> classrooms, these students are in flexible guided reading groups. >>> It works >>> for us, and it helps with planning. >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 6:16 PM, chelo echaves >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >>> >>>> hello Wendy >>>> I am not a teacher in the sense that most of you here are but I love >>>> reading and am involved in our own Public Library here in Cebu City, >>>> Philippines. My love for reading is whats keeping me here at MOSAIC >>>> :-) I >>&
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
Lori, This is one of the most excellent points of all. For some reason people seem to think it's easier to group across classrooms by ability. It just isn't so, in reality. Nor is it good for kids. Renee On Oct 9, 2008, at 5:44 AM, ljackson wrote: > I am thinking of the impact on instructional delivery. With a group of > mixed ability kids, as a teacher I can make important decisions about > time > management and release of control. More competent readers can be given > quick mini lessons, released and the check upon later, freeing up my > time to > provide higher levels of support to those who need it. It is a > juggling > act, but it can be done. With a room full of lower readers, how do I > find > the time to provide those students with small group instructional > support > that matches their needs? Also, where are the peer models? > > To me, this sends a very clear message to kids. Elitism works. We > believe > in it. Smart kids, here... Dumb kids, there. I don't believe this is > a > message we should endorse as a educational institution. > > Lori "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." ~ Voltaire ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
We had a consultant in our district who said that "research shows that teachers can only handle three groups for differentiation". Where did that come from? Does anyone know about this research? He is a learning theorist, I think, so maybe it has to do with learning theory? Carol On Oct 9, 2008, at 9:00 AM, Beverlee Paul wrote: > I think I'd just like to express this: What I'd consider as a > good reason > to do such a thing would NOT include it being easier for teachers. > That's > not why we're here. > > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 7:54 AM, Renee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> I would like to just throw a wrench into the works, or however that >> metaphor goes. I have two objections to ability grouping across >> classrooms. One is that research shows that the lower groups tend to >> stay lower without role models. But that's not my main objection. >> >> My main objection is that it detracts from the overall classroom >> community component of learning, as well as takes away from the >> opportunity to extend beyond "reading time" in real, authentic >> ways. If >> something comes up in reading that triggers a real, teachable moment, >> it is useless because some of the kids go away in an hour, and other >> kids (the ones who would have been there, otherwise) return, not >> having >> been present when whatever it was came up. It makes it harder to >> teach >> thematically in ways that truly connect to each other unless all the >> teachers are doing the same thing, in which case there is no >> reason to >> have been trading kids around. >> >> Just my two cents, again. >> Renee >> >> >> On Oct 8, 2008, at 7:49 PM, Wendy Jensen wrote: >> >>> Thanks for all your great thoughts and kind words on both sides >>> of the >>> coin. I love getting other perspectives because I don't always see >>> the big picture right away. I think it is important to view all >>> sides >>> before jumping in. Especially when it comes to primary readers. >>> Another question hit me as I was reading your responses. If within >>> our own classrooms, we differentiate by doing individual >>> conferences, >>> small skill groups, and small guided groups that are flexible, >>> what do >>> you think would be the advantage to doing the across grade-level >>> groupings instead? My first thought is that it is the same thing >>> only >>> different logistics. Also, does it rattle any of the kiddos to be >>> moved from one classroom to another so often? What are your >>> observations of this. It sounds like they handle it fine. I'm >>> curious what you think because I would bet that this comes up in our >>> discussions. I appreciate your responses and you have given me food >>> for thought on the topic...keep it comin' >>> >>> Wendy >>> - Original Message - >>> From: elisa kifer<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; >>> Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email >>> Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 6:26 PM >>> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts >>> >>> >>> Regardless of whether the kids are pulled out by ability or you >>> are >>> grouping >>> with your guided reading groups, I am a strong believer in pulling >>> groups >>> based on ability. BUT, more importantly, these groups MUST BE >>> FLEXIBLE. If >>> the groups are going to be flexible, then I think it would be >>> great. >>> Why >>> hold your strong students back with skills and strategies they >>> have >>> already >>> mastered, and vice versa. I use a similar technique. Some of my >>> very low >>> students go to a 2nd grade classroom for reading instruction, and >>> her top >>> kids come to me for reading instruction (3rd grade). Within our >>> classrooms, these students are in flexible guided reading groups. >>> It works >>> for us, and it helps with planning. >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 6:16 PM, chelo echaves >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >>> >>>> hello Wendy >>>> I am not a teacher in the sense that most of you here are but I >>>> love >>>> r
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
I think I'd just like to express this: What I'd consider as a good reason to do such a thing would NOT include it being easier for teachers. That's not why we're here. On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 7:54 AM, Renee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I would like to just throw a wrench into the works, or however that > metaphor goes. I have two objections to ability grouping across > classrooms. One is that research shows that the lower groups tend to > stay lower without role models. But that's not my main objection. > > My main objection is that it detracts from the overall classroom > community component of learning, as well as takes away from the > opportunity to extend beyond "reading time" in real, authentic ways. If > something comes up in reading that triggers a real, teachable moment, > it is useless because some of the kids go away in an hour, and other > kids (the ones who would have been there, otherwise) return, not having > been present when whatever it was came up. It makes it harder to teach > thematically in ways that truly connect to each other unless all the > teachers are doing the same thing, in which case there is no reason to > have been trading kids around. > > Just my two cents, again. > Renee > > > On Oct 8, 2008, at 7:49 PM, Wendy Jensen wrote: > > > Thanks for all your great thoughts and kind words on both sides of the > > coin. I love getting other perspectives because I don't always see > > the big picture right away. I think it is important to view all sides > > before jumping in. Especially when it comes to primary readers. > > Another question hit me as I was reading your responses. If within > > our own classrooms, we differentiate by doing individual conferences, > > small skill groups, and small guided groups that are flexible, what do > > you think would be the advantage to doing the across grade-level > > groupings instead? My first thought is that it is the same thing only > > different logistics. Also, does it rattle any of the kiddos to be > > moved from one classroom to another so often? What are your > > observations of this. It sounds like they handle it fine. I'm > > curious what you think because I would bet that this comes up in our > > discussions. I appreciate your responses and you have given me food > > for thought on the topic...keep it comin' > > > > Wendy > > - Original Message - > > From: elisa kifer<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; > > Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email > > Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 6:26 PM > > Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts > > > > > > Regardless of whether the kids are pulled out by ability or you are > > grouping > > with your guided reading groups, I am a strong believer in pulling > > groups > > based on ability. BUT, more importantly, these groups MUST BE > > FLEXIBLE. If > > the groups are going to be flexible, then I think it would be great. > > Why > > hold your strong students back with skills and strategies they have > > already > > mastered, and vice versa. I use a similar technique. Some of my > > very low > > students go to a 2nd grade classroom for reading instruction, and > > her top > > kids come to me for reading instruction (3rd grade). Within our > > classrooms, these students are in flexible guided reading groups. > > It works > > for us, and it helps with planning. > > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 6:16 PM, chelo echaves > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote > [EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > >> hello Wendy > >> I am not a teacher in the sense that most of you here are but I love > >> reading and am involved in our own Public Library here in Cebu City, > >> Philippines. My love for reading is whats keeping me here at MOSAIC > >> :-) I > >> learn alot here and not just about reading. I learn about people's > >> generosity and bigness of heart always trying to find ways to help and > >> better themselves in order to be better at helping children > >> read-Amazing! > >> Anyways, experiencially I do this-I do what my gut feel tells me to > >> do. You > >> are your best and worst critic but I can sense your deep love for > >> children > >> to find their way through reading. so I am definite you will do whats > >> best. > >> Blessings > >> Chelo > >> > >> --- On
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
Wendy, I have to say that the thing that disturbs me most about your original post is that your principal has visited this idea again and again and your colleagues have rejected the idea again and again and still your principal is pushing it. Principals of schools should be giving effective teachers the lead, and supporting them with resources, not getting in their way. Renee On Oct 8, 2008, at 9:03 PM, Wendy Jensen wrote: > Kathy, > Everything you have said is what I've been thinking all afternoon. > Our principal is still "learning" his way around reading. He is well > meaning; however, it is clear he doesn't totally understand it all > yet. I think the main thing he is worried about is getting those low > kids to benchmark on DIBELS testing and he'll try anything to make > that happen. If that is truly the case, it makes me very sad. On the > other hand, I think that reading rate is one small part of the whole > reading picture. There has never been mention of a plan of what it > will look like or how it will work. He's just "throwing out ideas." > This is why I sent this question out to everyone, because I know that > sometimes I get on MY soapbox (and many times I warn my colleagues > that I will be having a soapbox moment) and maybe I don't give things > a fair chance. I want to consider all options before deciding, but I > can't shake the feeling that this decision would not be good for kids > in the long run for many of the reasons you cited in your response. > The questions you suggest are very good ones and I will be asking > them. Thanks! > > Wendy > - Original Message - > From: Kathy Borden<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email > Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:35 PM > Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts > > > Wendy: > > I read this and went back to a journey I began in my present role 6 > years > ago and my teaching role 31 years ago. It was to move away from the > pull-out reality that was happening within our district. What I > felt 6 > years ago, as the person left to implement programs such as you > describe, > was that I was the keeper of the penalty box kids. The students > were NOT > being respectfully served. They were not learning what reading could > really look like. They were not hearing the language they needed to > hear. >They were not experiencing the modeling necessary to go forward. In > fact, they were being identified as have nots and experiencing > programming > that left them unconnected to the regular classroom situation. ( > Does > your principal describe the model he hopes to implement? ) > > On the other hand, should the school use the Gradual Release of > Responsibililty Model/Optimal Learning Model, these students could > ideally >move forward WITHIN the regularly scheduled readers workshop within > the > classroom.They would get whole group instruction. They would > get time > to practice. They would get time to share. And they would, most > importantly, belong. And if, within the three components, they were > unable to demonstrate the necessary skill levels, as identified > through > formative assessment, they would get another opportunity to go > through > Guided Practice with flexible groupings. > > My questions for the principal would include: > 1. Why is it better to remove students and identify them as low? > They > get it. They KNOW why they are leaving. Huge time is lost that > could be > better served with support being provided within the regular > classroom > literacy block. > 2. Is he willing to provide release time during the regular school > day to > plan for the interventions/debrief observations? Is there a > regularly > scheduled way to connect between what is happening within the > classroom > and within the pullout groups? > > It is obvious that you are connected to your students. It is > obvious that > you understand that ALL students are not on the same level as their > classmates. It is our job to stretch EVERY student within the > classroom > community. > It's time for me to get off MY soapbox.Would love to know your > principal's reasoning BEHIND what he is suggesting for your students. > > Kathy Borden > Literacy Coach > Yellowknife Education District #1 > Yellowknife, NT, CANADA > >> >> > > > > ___ >
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
I would like to just throw a wrench into the works, or however that metaphor goes. I have two objections to ability grouping across classrooms. One is that research shows that the lower groups tend to stay lower without role models. But that's not my main objection. My main objection is that it detracts from the overall classroom community component of learning, as well as takes away from the opportunity to extend beyond "reading time" in real, authentic ways. If something comes up in reading that triggers a real, teachable moment, it is useless because some of the kids go away in an hour, and other kids (the ones who would have been there, otherwise) return, not having been present when whatever it was came up. It makes it harder to teach thematically in ways that truly connect to each other unless all the teachers are doing the same thing, in which case there is no reason to have been trading kids around. Just my two cents, again. Renee On Oct 8, 2008, at 7:49 PM, Wendy Jensen wrote: > Thanks for all your great thoughts and kind words on both sides of the > coin. I love getting other perspectives because I don't always see > the big picture right away. I think it is important to view all sides > before jumping in. Especially when it comes to primary readers. > Another question hit me as I was reading your responses. If within > our own classrooms, we differentiate by doing individual conferences, > small skill groups, and small guided groups that are flexible, what do > you think would be the advantage to doing the across grade-level > groupings instead? My first thought is that it is the same thing only > different logistics. Also, does it rattle any of the kiddos to be > moved from one classroom to another so often? What are your > observations of this. It sounds like they handle it fine. I'm > curious what you think because I would bet that this comes up in our > discussions. I appreciate your responses and you have given me food > for thought on the topic...keep it comin' > > Wendy > - Original Message - > From: elisa kifer<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; > Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email > Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 6:26 PM > Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts > > > Regardless of whether the kids are pulled out by ability or you are > grouping > with your guided reading groups, I am a strong believer in pulling > groups > based on ability. BUT, more importantly, these groups MUST BE > FLEXIBLE. If > the groups are going to be flexible, then I think it would be great. > Why > hold your strong students back with skills and strategies they have > already > mastered, and vice versa. I use a similar technique. Some of my > very low > students go to a 2nd grade classroom for reading instruction, and > her top > kids come to me for reading instruction (3rd grade). Within our > classrooms, these students are in flexible guided reading groups. > It works > for us, and it helps with planning. > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 6:16 PM, chelo echaves > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote [EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > >> hello Wendy >> I am not a teacher in the sense that most of you here are but I love >> reading and am involved in our own Public Library here in Cebu City, >> Philippines. My love for reading is whats keeping me here at MOSAIC >> :-) I >> learn alot here and not just about reading. I learn about people's >> generosity and bigness of heart always trying to find ways to help and >> better themselves in order to be better at helping children >> read-Amazing! >> Anyways, experiencially I do this-I do what my gut feel tells me to >> do. You >> are your best and worst critic but I can sense your deep love for >> children >> to find their way through reading. so I am definite you will do whats >> best. >> Blessings >> Chelo >> >> --- On Thu, 9/10/08, Wendy Jensen >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: >> >> From: Wendy Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >> Subject: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts >> To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email" < >> mosaic@literacyworkshop.org<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org>> >> Date: Thursday, 9 October, 2008, 6:19 AM >> >> My principal just asked us (again) today about how we would feel about >> ability >> grouping kids for reading across a grade level. So, all t
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts re abilty grouping during reading
Our principal also had us group kids by ability and send them out to other teachers for reading instruction. The purpose was to raise our state test scores. Some of our first and second grade teachers seemed to like this arrangement. It was "easier" and didn't require as much planning, because they were only planning for one level or book. However, many of them were new teachers and had not taught reading any other way. Then the policy came up to third grade and fourth grade to a group of veteran teachers and it only lasted one year. I really felt like I lost out on truly "knowing" my children who left for reading. I was never quite as sure of where they were and how far I could "push them. I felt it truly fractured our classroom. They were not with me for the rich discussion that evolves from reading wonderful text together. I also had to spend more time on classroom routine and expectations for behavior, as the children coming to me were from four different teachers with different teaching styles. Even though we are now ability grouped within the room for guided reading, we come together for whole group lessons and we learn from each other. I also think that if you only teach struggling readers after a while it becomes difficult to remember where the bar should be set and I think you can lose sight of what your children may be capable of with your support and instruction. Our new assistant superintendent in charge of curriculum does not allow any grade level to send children to other classrooms for reading instruction. Leslie "When we do the best that we can, we never know what miracle is wrought in our life, or in the life of another." --Helen Keller ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
Hi Wendy - You've gotten such thoughtful replies, and I'd like to kind of sum up my experience and these replies and say: I think he'd need to have a truly compelling reason (not an excuse) to change to this and I think he'd have kind of a hard time doing so. He needs to think, "In what way would these children be better served out of the classroom rather than in the classroom?" If there's no really good answer, I think the conclusion is obvious. Bev On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 5:16 PM, chelo echaves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > hello Wendy > I am not a teacher in the sense that most of you here are but I love > reading and am involved in our own Public Library here in Cebu City, > Philippines. My love for reading is whats keeping me here at MOSAIC :-) I > learn alot here and not just about reading. I learn about people's > generosity and bigness of heart always trying to find ways to help and > better themselves in order to be better at helping children read-Amazing! > Anyways, experiencially I do this-I do what my gut feel tells me to do. You > are your best and worst critic but I can sense your deep love for children > to find their way through reading. so I am definite you will do whats best. > Blessings > Chelo > > --- On Thu, 9/10/08, Wendy Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From: Wendy Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts > To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email" < > mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> > Date: Thursday, 9 October, 2008, 6:19 AM > > My principal just asked us (again) today about how we would feel about > ability > grouping kids for reading across a grade level. So, all the low kids go to > one > of the 2nd grade teachers, all the low-mid go to a different 2nd grade > teacher, > all the middle kids go to another 2nd grade teacher and so on. We would do > this > during a time in our reading block when the ELP or TAG kids leave the room > and > the lowest kids leave the room for extra help. I'm not really thrilled > with > this idea and many teachers in the building feel the same way. Do any of > you do > this grouping within your reader's workshop? I just don't think it is > the appropriate time to do that. I've worked hard to train my kids how > reader's workshop runs, they get to choose books, and have longer periods > of > time to read. Many of the teachers in the building do small guided groups, > however, I am the only one using a reader's workshop approach. He has > brought this topic to the table time and time again and we always tell him > we > don't want to use that approach, but for some reason he keeps pushing it. > I > realize there's not just one way to teach reading, but I've seen such > great results with reader's workshop and comprehension strategies that I > would hate to see that all go away. I'd love your thoughts on this > "set-up". I think if I have more input I might not judge it so > harshly. My first reaction is NO WAY! Thanks in advance! > > Wendy > ___ > Mosaic mailing list > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > > > > New Email names for you! > Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail. > Hurry before someone else does! > http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/aa/ > ___ > Mosaic mailing list > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
Wendy We regroup...but not by ability... we regroup by strategy needs for just part of the day. For example, in K we might have a rhyming group, a letter sound group, a blending group and a comprehension group. In Fourth grade, we might have a fluency group, a inferential thinking group, a self-monitoring group and a decoding review group. The groups are VERY flexible and I might have up to four grade levels difference in reading levels in that particular group...but they all need to work on a similar strategy. As a reading specialist, I can then plug into a group that has specific needs and serve far more students than I could if I pulled out little groups of strugglers. By doing this, we achieve differentiation without tracking. It works for us. Jennifer In a message dated 10/9/2008 12:05:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I want to consider all options before deciding, but I can't shake the feeling that this decision would not be good for kids in the long run for many of the reasons you cited in your response. The questions you suggest are very good ones and I will be asking them. Thanks! Wendy **New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew0001) ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
I am thinking of the impact on instructional delivery. With a group of mixed ability kids, as a teacher I can make important decisions about time management and release of control. More competent readers can be given quick mini lessons, released and the check upon later, freeing up my time to provide higher levels of support to those who need it. It is a juggling act, but it can be done. With a room full of lower readers, how do I find the time to provide those students with small group instructional support that matches their needs? Also, where are the peer models? To me, this sends a very clear message to kids. Elitism works. We believe in it. Smart kids, here... Dumb kids, there. I don't believe this is a message we should endorse as a educational institution. Lori On 10/8/08 4:56 PM, "Felicia Barra" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Wendy, > > I would not agree with your principal because your groups change based upon > their needs. If a group of my students have trouble with a comprehension > strategy, I group them together for small group instruction. If another > group is having trouble with decoding, I group them together. The make-up > of the group changes depending upon the students needs. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wendy Jensen > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 6:20 PM > To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email > Subject: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts > > My principal just asked us (again) today about how we would feel about > ability grouping kids for reading across a grade level. So, all the low > kids go to one of the 2nd grade teachers, all the low-mid go to a different > 2nd grade teacher, all the middle kids go to another 2nd grade teacher and > so on. We would do this during a time in our reading block when the ELP or > TAG kids leave the room and the lowest kids leave the room for extra help. > I'm not really thrilled with this idea and many teachers in the building > feel the same way. Do any of you do this grouping within your reader's > workshop? I just don't think it is the appropriate time to do that. I've > worked hard to train my kids how reader's workshop runs, they get to choose > books, and have longer periods of time to read. Many of the teachers in the > building do small guided groups, however, I am the only one using a reader's > workshop approach. He has brought this topic to the table time and time > again and we always tell him > we don't want to use that approach, but for some reason he keeps pushing > it. I realize there's not just one way to teach reading, but I've seen such > great results with reader's workshop and comprehension strategies that I > would hate to see that all go away. I'd love your thoughts on this > "set-up". I think if I have more input I might not judge it so harshly. My > first reaction is NO WAY! Thanks in advance! > > Wendy > ___ > Mosaic mailing list > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > > > > ___ > Mosaic mailing list > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > -- Lori Jackson District Literacy Coach & Mentor Todd County School District Box 87 Mission SD 57555 http:www.tcsdk12.org ph. 605.856.2211 Literacies for All Summer Institute July 17-20. 2008 Tucson, Arizona ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
Kathy, Everything you have said is what I've been thinking all afternoon. Our principal is still "learning" his way around reading. He is well meaning; however, it is clear he doesn't totally understand it all yet. I think the main thing he is worried about is getting those low kids to benchmark on DIBELS testing and he'll try anything to make that happen. If that is truly the case, it makes me very sad. On the other hand, I think that reading rate is one small part of the whole reading picture. There has never been mention of a plan of what it will look like or how it will work. He's just "throwing out ideas." This is why I sent this question out to everyone, because I know that sometimes I get on MY soapbox (and many times I warn my colleagues that I will be having a soapbox moment) and maybe I don't give things a fair chance. I want to consider all options before deciding, but I can't shake the feeling that this decision would not be good for kids in the long run for many of the reasons you cited in your response. The questions you suggest are very good ones and I will be asking them. Thanks! Wendy - Original Message - From: Kathy Borden<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:35 PM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts Wendy: I read this and went back to a journey I began in my present role 6 years ago and my teaching role 31 years ago. It was to move away from the pull-out reality that was happening within our district. What I felt 6 years ago, as the person left to implement programs such as you describe, was that I was the keeper of the penalty box kids. The students were NOT being respectfully served. They were not learning what reading could really look like. They were not hearing the language they needed to hear. They were not experiencing the modeling necessary to go forward. In fact, they were being identified as have nots and experiencing programming that left them unconnected to the regular classroom situation. ( Does your principal describe the model he hopes to implement? ) On the other hand, should the school use the Gradual Release of Responsibililty Model/Optimal Learning Model, these students could ideally move forward WITHIN the regularly scheduled readers workshop within the classroom.They would get whole group instruction. They would get time to practice. They would get time to share. And they would, most importantly, belong. And if, within the three components, they were unable to demonstrate the necessary skill levels, as identified through formative assessment, they would get another opportunity to go through Guided Practice with flexible groupings. My questions for the principal would include: 1. Why is it better to remove students and identify them as low? They get it. They KNOW why they are leaving. Huge time is lost that could be better served with support being provided within the regular classroom literacy block. 2. Is he willing to provide release time during the regular school day to plan for the interventions/debrief observations? Is there a regularly scheduled way to connect between what is happening within the classroom and within the pullout groups? It is obvious that you are connected to your students. It is obvious that you understand that ALL students are not on the same level as their classmates. It is our job to stretch EVERY student within the classroom community. It's time for me to get off MY soapbox.Would love to know your principal's reasoning BEHIND what he is suggesting for your students. Kathy Borden Literacy Coach Yellowknife Education District #1 Yellowknife, NT, CANADA > > ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org<mailto:Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org<http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org>. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive<http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive>. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
Wendy: I read this and went back to a journey I began in my present role 6 years ago and my teaching role 31 years ago. It was to move away from the pull-out reality that was happening within our district. What I felt 6 years ago, as the person left to implement programs such as you describe, was that I was the keeper of the penalty box kids. The students were NOT being respectfully served. They were not learning what reading could really look like. They were not hearing the language they needed to hear. They were not experiencing the modeling necessary to go forward. In fact, they were being identified as have nots and experiencing programming that left them unconnected to the regular classroom situation. ( Does your principal describe the model he hopes to implement? ) On the other hand, should the school use the Gradual Release of Responsibililty Model/Optimal Learning Model, these students could ideally move forward WITHIN the regularly scheduled readers workshop within the classroom.They would get whole group instruction. They would get time to practice. They would get time to share. And they would, most importantly, belong. And if, within the three components, they were unable to demonstrate the necessary skill levels, as identified through formative assessment, they would get another opportunity to go through Guided Practice with flexible groupings. My questions for the principal would include: 1. Why is it better to remove students and identify them as low? They get it. They KNOW why they are leaving. Huge time is lost that could be better served with support being provided within the regular classroom literacy block. 2. Is he willing to provide release time during the regular school day to plan for the interventions/debrief observations? Is there a regularly scheduled way to connect between what is happening within the classroom and within the pullout groups? It is obvious that you are connected to your students. It is obvious that you understand that ALL students are not on the same level as their classmates. It is our job to stretch EVERY student within the classroom community. It's time for me to get off MY soapbox.Would love to know your principal's reasoning BEHIND what he is suggesting for your students. Kathy Borden Literacy Coach Yellowknife Education District #1 Yellowknife, NT, CANADA > > ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
Thanks for all your great thoughts and kind words on both sides of the coin. I love getting other perspectives because I don't always see the big picture right away. I think it is important to view all sides before jumping in. Especially when it comes to primary readers. Another question hit me as I was reading your responses. If within our own classrooms, we differentiate by doing individual conferences, small skill groups, and small guided groups that are flexible, what do you think would be the advantage to doing the across grade-level groupings instead? My first thought is that it is the same thing only different logistics. Also, does it rattle any of the kiddos to be moved from one classroom to another so often? What are your observations of this. It sounds like they handle it fine. I'm curious what you think because I would bet that this comes up in our discussions. I appreciate your responses and you have given me food for thought on the topic...keep it comin' Wendy - Original Message - From: elisa kifer<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts Regardless of whether the kids are pulled out by ability or you are grouping with your guided reading groups, I am a strong believer in pulling groups based on ability. BUT, more importantly, these groups MUST BE FLEXIBLE. If the groups are going to be flexible, then I think it would be great. Why hold your strong students back with skills and strategies they have already mastered, and vice versa. I use a similar technique. Some of my very low students go to a 2nd grade classroom for reading instruction, and her top kids come to me for reading instruction (3rd grade). Within our classrooms, these students are in flexible guided reading groups. It works for us, and it helps with planning. On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 6:16 PM, chelo echaves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > hello Wendy > I am not a teacher in the sense that most of you here are but I love > reading and am involved in our own Public Library here in Cebu City, > Philippines. My love for reading is whats keeping me here at MOSAIC :-) I > learn alot here and not just about reading. I learn about people's > generosity and bigness of heart always trying to find ways to help and > better themselves in order to be better at helping children read-Amazing! > Anyways, experiencially I do this-I do what my gut feel tells me to do. You > are your best and worst critic but I can sense your deep love for children > to find their way through reading. so I am definite you will do whats best. > Blessings > Chelo > > --- On Thu, 9/10/08, Wendy Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: > > From: Wendy Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > Subject: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts > To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email" < > mosaic@literacyworkshop.org<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org>> > Date: Thursday, 9 October, 2008, 6:19 AM > > My principal just asked us (again) today about how we would feel about > ability > grouping kids for reading across a grade level. So, all the low kids go to > one > of the 2nd grade teachers, all the low-mid go to a different 2nd grade > teacher, > all the middle kids go to another 2nd grade teacher and so on. We would do > this > during a time in our reading block when the ELP or TAG kids leave the room > and > the lowest kids leave the room for extra help. I'm not really thrilled > with > this idea and many teachers in the building feel the same way. Do any of > you do > this grouping within your reader's workshop? I just don't think it is > the appropriate time to do that. I've worked hard to train my kids how > reader's workshop runs, they get to choose books, and have longer periods > of > time to read. Many of the teachers in the building do small guided groups, > however, I am the only one using a reader's workshop approach. He has > brought this topic to the table time and time again and we always tell him > we > don't want to use that approach, but for some reason he keeps pushing it. > I > realize there's not just one way to teach reading, but I've seen such > great results with reader's workshop and comprehension strategies that I > would hate to see that all go away. I'd love your thoughts on this > "set-up". I think if
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
We have switched classes in the past based on ability groups. It operated very much the same way as you described, however, the groups would change very often. The grouping is very flexible. We would spend a couple of weeks with the groups, then meet as a team to see how all of the students are doing. We would shuffle the groups according to need. It worked very, very well. In fact, my co-teacher and I got it down to a science where the students could actually switch groups in the middle of class. Confusing, I know, but it made sense for us and the kids we had. Good luck. Andrea Wendy Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >My principal just asked us (again) today about how we would feel about >ability grouping kids for reading across a grade level. So, all the low >kids go to one of the 2nd grade teachers, all the low-mid go to a >different 2nd grade teacher, all the middle kids go to another 2nd grade >teacher and so on. We would do this during a time in our reading block >when the ELP or TAG kids leave the room and the lowest kids leave the room >for extra help. I'm not really thrilled with this idea and many teachers >in the building feel the same way. Do any of you do this grouping within >your reader's workshop? I just don't think it is the appropriate time to >do that. I've worked hard to train my kids how reader's workshop runs, >they get to choose books, and have longer periods of time to read. Many >of the teachers in the building do small guided groups, however, I am the >only one using a reader's workshop approach. He has brought this topic to >the table time and time again and we always > tell him we don't want to use that approach, but for some reason he keeps >pushing it. I realize there's not just one way to teach reading, but I've >seen such great results with reader's workshop and comprehension strategies >that I would hate to see that all go away. I'd love your thoughts on this >"set-up". I think if I have more input I might not judge it so harshly. >My first reaction is NO WAY! Thanks in advance! > >Wendy >___ >Mosaic mailing list >Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org >To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > >Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > > ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
Regardless of whether the kids are pulled out by ability or you are grouping with your guided reading groups, I am a strong believer in pulling groups based on ability. BUT, more importantly, these groups MUST BE FLEXIBLE. If the groups are going to be flexible, then I think it would be great. Why hold your strong students back with skills and strategies they have already mastered, and vice versa. I use a similar technique. Some of my very low students go to a 2nd grade classroom for reading instruction, and her top kids come to me for reading instruction (3rd grade). Within our classrooms, these students are in flexible guided reading groups. It works for us, and it helps with planning. On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 6:16 PM, chelo echaves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > hello Wendy > I am not a teacher in the sense that most of you here are but I love > reading and am involved in our own Public Library here in Cebu City, > Philippines. My love for reading is whats keeping me here at MOSAIC :-) I > learn alot here and not just about reading. I learn about people's > generosity and bigness of heart always trying to find ways to help and > better themselves in order to be better at helping children read-Amazing! > Anyways, experiencially I do this-I do what my gut feel tells me to do. You > are your best and worst critic but I can sense your deep love for children > to find their way through reading. so I am definite you will do whats best. > Blessings > Chelo > > --- On Thu, 9/10/08, Wendy Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From: Wendy Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts > To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email" < > mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> > Date: Thursday, 9 October, 2008, 6:19 AM > > My principal just asked us (again) today about how we would feel about > ability > grouping kids for reading across a grade level. So, all the low kids go to > one > of the 2nd grade teachers, all the low-mid go to a different 2nd grade > teacher, > all the middle kids go to another 2nd grade teacher and so on. We would do > this > during a time in our reading block when the ELP or TAG kids leave the room > and > the lowest kids leave the room for extra help. I'm not really thrilled > with > this idea and many teachers in the building feel the same way. Do any of > you do > this grouping within your reader's workshop? I just don't think it is > the appropriate time to do that. I've worked hard to train my kids how > reader's workshop runs, they get to choose books, and have longer periods > of > time to read. Many of the teachers in the building do small guided groups, > however, I am the only one using a reader's workshop approach. He has > brought this topic to the table time and time again and we always tell him > we > don't want to use that approach, but for some reason he keeps pushing it. > I > realize there's not just one way to teach reading, but I've seen such > great results with reader's workshop and comprehension strategies that I > would hate to see that all go away. I'd love your thoughts on this > "set-up". I think if I have more input I might not judge it so > harshly. My first reaction is NO WAY! Thanks in advance! > > Wendy > ___ > Mosaic mailing list > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > > > > New Email names for you! > Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail. > Hurry before someone else does! > http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/aa/ > ___ > Mosaic mailing list > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > -- Elisa M. Kifer Third Grade Literacy Teacher Fox Meadow Elementary "Love of reading and writing is not taught, it is created. Love of reading and writing is not required, it is inspired. Love of reading and writing is not demanded, it is exemplified. Love of reading and writing, is not exacted, it is quickened. Love of reading and writing is not solicited, it is activated." -Russell Stauffer, 1980 ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
hello Wendy I am not a teacher in the sense that most of you here are but I love reading and am involved in our own Public Library here in Cebu City, Philippines. My love for reading is whats keeping me here at MOSAIC :-) I learn alot here and not just about reading. I learn about people's generosity and bigness of heart always trying to find ways to help and better themselves in order to be better at helping children read-Amazing! Anyways, experiencially I do this-I do what my gut feel tells me to do. You are your best and worst critic but I can sense your deep love for children to find their way through reading. so I am definite you will do whats best. Blessings Chelo --- On Thu, 9/10/08, Wendy Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Wendy Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email" Date: Thursday, 9 October, 2008, 6:19 AM My principal just asked us (again) today about how we would feel about ability grouping kids for reading across a grade level. So, all the low kids go to one of the 2nd grade teachers, all the low-mid go to a different 2nd grade teacher, all the middle kids go to another 2nd grade teacher and so on. We would do this during a time in our reading block when the ELP or TAG kids leave the room and the lowest kids leave the room for extra help. I'm not really thrilled with this idea and many teachers in the building feel the same way. Do any of you do this grouping within your reader's workshop? I just don't think it is the appropriate time to do that. I've worked hard to train my kids how reader's workshop runs, they get to choose books, and have longer periods of time to read. Many of the teachers in the building do small guided groups, however, I am the only one using a reader's workshop approach. He has brought this topic to the table time and time again and we always tell him we don't want to use that approach, but for some reason he keeps pushing it. I realize there's not just one way to teach reading, but I've seen such great results with reader's workshop and comprehension strategies that I would hate to see that all go away. I'd love your thoughts on this "set-up". I think if I have more input I might not judge it so harshly. My first reaction is NO WAY! Thanks in advance! Wendy ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. New Email names for you! Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail. Hurry before someone else does! http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/aa/ ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts
Wendy, I would not agree with your principal because your groups change based upon their needs. If a group of my students have trouble with a comprehension strategy, I group them together for small group instruction. If another group is having trouble with decoding, I group them together. The make-up of the group changes depending upon the students needs. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wendy Jensen Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 6:20 PM To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Subject: [MOSAIC] Your thoughts My principal just asked us (again) today about how we would feel about ability grouping kids for reading across a grade level. So, all the low kids go to one of the 2nd grade teachers, all the low-mid go to a different 2nd grade teacher, all the middle kids go to another 2nd grade teacher and so on. We would do this during a time in our reading block when the ELP or TAG kids leave the room and the lowest kids leave the room for extra help. I'm not really thrilled with this idea and many teachers in the building feel the same way. Do any of you do this grouping within your reader's workshop? I just don't think it is the appropriate time to do that. I've worked hard to train my kids how reader's workshop runs, they get to choose books, and have longer periods of time to read. Many of the teachers in the building do small guided groups, however, I am the only one using a reader's workshop approach. He has brought this topic to the table time and time again and we always tell him we don't want to use that approach, but for some reason he keeps pushing it. I realize there's not just one way to teach reading, but I've seen such great results with reader's workshop and comprehension strategies that I would hate to see that all go away. I'd love your thoughts on this "set-up". I think if I have more input I might not judge it so harshly. My first reaction is NO WAY! Thanks in advance! Wendy ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
