[Mpls] Atherton on Closing Pratt School
In a prior post, Michael Atherton said, BTW, from my interpretation of what Mr. Miller said, he recommended that PPERRIA not file a lawsuit to keep Pratt open. They have very little legal basis for such an action and the most they can hope to achieve legally is forcing the School Board to keep the school open for another year. I was at that meeting too and Bob Miller said NOTHING of the kind. He did say that since NRP is a joint powers agency that he wasn't sure that NRP could sue because one of NRP's constituent agencies that makes it joint is the school board itself. So it might be possible that the School Board would veto an NRP lawsuit against MPS just because it can. He also said that all the legal advice he had gotten is that the contract is good and clear that for PPERRIA's $480,000 it get a K-5 school at Pratt. He said NOTHING against PPERRIA suing the MPS. He also did NOT say that the most that they can hope for is another year. He did say that the contract gives PPERRIA the maximum power right now and suggested that it be used now for the maximum advantage now. He made the valid point that just because we have a contract, it doesn't mean that we can force the MPS to keep Pratt School open permanently. He SUGGESTED, as an example, that the power PPERRIA had right now might be to keep the school open for a year because that would give us time for the neighborhood to establish a charter school in Pratt. Others stated (after Mr. Atherton left the meeting) that the time might more realistically be about five years. Furthermore, it is Mr. Miller who is going to see Acting Superintendent Jennings, with PPERRIA's resolution authorizing a lawsuit in hand, to remind the MPS schools that they can't violate their contract. As usual, Michael's view of things is distorted by his perpetual wearing of dismal-colored glasses. Steve Cross Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Atherton the emperor's new clothes
List, I think it is unfair and untrue to say that Micheal Atherton fails to assign any of the blame for failing urban schools on parents, neighborhoods, and urban students. I agree with Micheal Atherton that standardized test scores measure, however imperfectly, the quality of instruction. I think you have to give a school most of the credit when 95% of its students show more than one years growth in math and reading for every full year they are enrolled, and where 95% of the 8th graders pass the Minnesota Basic Standards tests on the first try. And I think you have to assign most of the blame to a school system where half of the kids show less than one-half years growth in math and reading for each full year they are enrolled, and where only about 40% of the 8th graders pass one or both of the Minnesota Basic Standards exams in math and reading. However, I don't agree with Micheal Atherton's diagnosis and treatment plan for the Minneapolis Public Schools. I don't think the problem is the liberal levelers (who are not in charge of the Minneapolis Public Schools, by the way). The liberal policies that have been tossed aside in urban centers with large or rapidly growing minority populations during the past 20 years actually worked pretty well, if your idea of a school policy that works well is one that reduces the test score gap in math and reading without holding back the high achievers. To me, Micheal Atherton's diagnosis and treatment plan looks quite similar to that of the current administration of the Minneapolis. Atherton and the current board say that urban kids need a different kind of education than suburban kids because of their home and neighborhood environments. The Board is for ability-grouping, Atherton is for 'true ability-grouping,' Atherton and the board say they can improve students achievement with parent involvement programs. Atherton and Shapiro also dismiss the idea that teaching experience has much (if anything) to do with instructional effectiveness). The reason that the Strib and the MPS administration don't like Micheal Atherton is that he fails to notice the emperor's new clothes, I mean the 'progress' that the district is making. In that respect Micheal Atherton is making a positive and necessary contribution to the discussion. -Doug Mann, King Field, the new 8th ward Mann for School Board Committee http://educationright.tripod.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Atherton for School Board
I sincerely hope Michael Atherton runs for the Minneapolis Board of Education. While many of his posts to this list generate controversy, I enjoy the fact that he takes issue and challenges others posting on education-related topics, and speaks well during the course of debate. The dialogue is good (another testament to the value of this list). I think many of his education-related posts over the past couple of years, demonstrate an in-depth understanding of education from both a practical and policy-oriented perspective. I appreciate his many references to peer-reviewed national research as opposed to the usual 'common sense' and 'feel-good'- oriented approaches, the untested solutions if you will, proffered by so many when discussing education policy. Too often, talk is indeed cheap. I encourage him to take that bold step-- to make the commitment; to run for public office and actively campaign. Challenge parents, taxpayers, voters and those other candidates seeking election to the MPS Board of Education to actively discuss public education in Minneapolis-- talk about the strengths and weaknesses of the system and offer potential strategies for improvement. Raise the level of dialogue. Run Michael, run!! Michael Atherton states in part, I am not sure that I am running for a seat on the school board, but I might be for several reasons: 1) The schools are in crisis and nobody seems to be doing much about it. 2) Most of the current school board members don't seem to be familiar with many basic issues and research in education (or they have misinterpreted them). 3) There don't seem to be any candidates on the horizon who know any more than current board members. 4) We need new ideas and solutions and I have lots of them. 5) The social injustice of failing to provide basic skills and quality education to minority students conflicts with my ethical standards. 6) I see education as the most important foundation of a democratic society. 7) I have two children who will be of school age in several years and I would like to be able to send them to public rather than private schools. Michael Hohmann Linden Hills www.mahohmannbizplans.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Atherton
Everyone: A reminder about a couple of rules: 4. No insults, threats, and inflamed speech for the sake of personal argument are allowed. 5. One-on-one arguments, disagreements, and disputes of a personal nature must be taken off list. The discussion of Michael Atherton's comments is sliding into disputes of a personal nature. One good (bad) sign is when a list member's name becomes the title of a thread. If you feel Michael has done something to you personally, please email him directly. Also his constructiveness, or lack thereof, is a discussion best had off-list as well. I strongly recommend members email members privately to discuss these things - it's so much better if members give each other off-list feedback, just not make it a whole-list discussion. If you feel anyone has violated a list rule, please email me directly. If you want to discuss the issues raised by the education posts, this is of course the place. If you feel anyone's issues aren't worth responding to for whatever reason, my best advice is not to. That's my best advice about any thread you don't like - the delete key is a wonderful thing. David Brauer List manager _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Atherton
Atherton writes (and writes and writes): Let's bring this tread back to issues. I've made a number of proposals which no one has commented on.. ~Time for some self-reflection here, Mr. Atherton. Why do you suppose no one responds? Could it be that most others posting on this Forum re education and other issues are more interested in constructive exchanges? Kathy Kosnoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Atherton
In a message dated 11/20/01 11:01:36 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Atherton writes (and writes and writes): Let's bring this tread back to issues. I've made a number of proposals which no one has commented on.. ~Time for some self-reflection here, Mr. Atherton. Why do you suppose no one responds? Could it be that most others posting on this Forum re education and other issues are more interested in constructive exchanges? Kathy, I have enjoyed and learned from all these postings, starting with the run up to the election. They have been a bit verbose at times though. That these are complicated subjects is one thing I have you and Mr. Atherton should agree on. I propose that your both right, to degrees, along with all other postings. Maybe if much more were said it would be repetition so why don't each one of you and any others create a summation of your own opinions and call it a day, for now? You have done good work here and you should be pleased with yourselves. Now go make nice! ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Atherton
In a message dated 11/20/01 11:01:36 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Atherton writes (and writes and writes): Let's bring this tread back to issues. I've made a number of proposals which no one has commented on.. ~Time for some self-reflection here, Mr. Atherton. Why do you suppose no one responds? Could it be that most others posting on this Forum re education and other issues are more interested in constructive exchanges? Kathy, I have enjoyed and learned from all these postings, starting with the run up to the election. They have been a bit verbose at times though. That these are complicated subjects is one thing you and Mr. Atherton should agree on. I propose that your both right, to degrees, along with all other postings. Maybe if much more were said it would be repetition so why don't each one of you and any others create a summation of your own opinions and call it a day, for now? You have done good work here and you should be pleased with yourselves. Now go make nice! Keith Reitman, it is late, I am tired, I forgot to sign and I deleted a typo, Near North ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Atherton
In a message dated 11/20/2001 11:01:21 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Atherton writes (and writes and writes): Let's bring this tread back to issues. I've made a number of proposals which no one has commented on.. ~Time for some self-reflection here, Mr. Atherton. Why do you suppose no one responds? Could it be that most others posting on this Forum re education and other issues are more interested in constructive exchanges? Please explain why and how Michael Atherton's posts have been unconstructive? Give a few concrete examples. It would be the constructive thing to do. -Doug Mann, King Field http://educationright.tripod.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
