Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
On 17/06/06, ZaphodBeeblebrox formerly known as mo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: net release == wordwide this is obvious to me why? I'll tell you, as I live in norway, I cannot get any release that is *only* released in the US, unless I get someone to send that to me. yes you can - amazon.com and so forth do worldwide delivery. IMO there is a distinction that people don't seem to realise - physical releases are intended for certain distributition areas (release country), but this is not the same as saying 'this release is available in [country]', as shops will have their own distribution areas. internet releases have no intent behind their distribution, so IMO they should have a seperate 'country' ([net release] or similar) to reflect this. it's not true that band x released internet album Y in antartica in 2005, or whatever. by saying 'worldwide' you kinda imply this, IMO. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
On 18/06/06, joan WHITTAKER [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do I take it that once Don Redman has spoken that is it - subject closed - decision made? no :) no offence intended toward don, but unless i'm mistaken, we're all equal in style discussions, unless there is no consensus, in which case Rob Kaye steps in. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
Chris Bransden wrote: On 17/06/06, ZaphodBeeblebrox formerly known as mo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: net release == wordwide this is obvious to me why? I'll tell you, as I live in norway, I cannot get any release that is *only* released in the US, unless I get someone to send that to me. yes you can - amazon.com and so forth do worldwide delivery. Yes, and worldwide delivery is another way of saying get someone to send that to me. I'm glad you're both of the same opinion. ;-) -- derGraph ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
On 6/19/06, Chris Bransden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: internet releases have no intent behind their distribution, so IMO they should have a seperate 'country' ([net release] or similar) to reflect this. it's not true that band x released internet album Y in antartica in 2005, or whatever. by saying 'worldwide' you kinda imply this, IMO. But it is actually rather correct. If someone releases an album in, say, Germany, than it's considerably non-trivial for someone in Antarctica (or China, for that matter) to aquire it. An internet release, however, is pretty much just as accessible (the download will be slower, and perhaps the equipment is less common, but that's true for CD players too, in some proportion). Actually, I think a net release is accessible even on the International Space Station; it's harder than it is for me to download something, but it's certainly orders of magnitude more accessible than a new CD. -- Bogdan Butnaru — [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think I am a fallen star, I should wish on myself. – O. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
On 19/06/06, Bogdan Butnaru [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/19/06, Chris Bransden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: internet releases have no intent behind their distribution, so IMO they should have a seperate 'country' ([net release] or similar) to reflect this. it's not true that band x released internet album Y in antartica in 2005, or whatever. by saying 'worldwide' you kinda imply this, IMO. But it is actually rather correct. If someone releases an album in, say, Germany, than it's considerably non-trivial for someone in Antarctica (or China, for that matter) to aquire it. i buy cds from hmv.co.jp often, but they weren't RELEASED here (UK), they are just AVAILABLE here, thanks to international shipping. that's why i mean - net releases aren't RELEASED anywhere, they are just AVAILABLE everywhere :) i don't mean that it is not available in antarctica, just that the label had no intent to RELEASE it in that country, as they would in a physical release (where all distribution is planned), it's just AVAILABLE there. by saying RELEASE, i think you imply intent, and there is non with net releases - hence i think net releases should have a seperate 'country' - [net release]/[download]/whatever. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
On 6/19/06, Chris Bransden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 19/06/06, Bogdan Butnaru [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/19/06, Chris Bransden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: internet releases have no intent behind their distribution, so IMO they should have a seperate 'country' ([net release] or similar) to reflect this. it's not true that band x released internet album Y in antartica in 2005, or whatever. by saying 'worldwide' you kinda imply this, IMO. But it is actually rather correct. If someone releases an album in, say, Germany, than it's considerably non-trivial for someone in Antarctica (or China, for that matter) to aquire it. i buy cds from hmv.co.jp often, but they weren't RELEASED here (UK), they are just AVAILABLE here, thanks to international shipping. that's why i mean - net releases aren't RELEASED anywhere, they are just AVAILABLE everywhere :) Yeah, since there is no explicite area of release I guess you could just as well say the net releases are released everywhere or released nowhere (unless there are download restrictions), take your pick. But I'd pick everywhere. It wouldn't make much sense to release nowhere, would it? ;) -- Bogdan Butnaru — [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think I am a fallen star, I should wish on myself. – O. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
On 6/19/06, Nikki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Jun 19, 2006 at 11:26:26AM +0100, Chris Bransden wrote: hence i think net releases should have a seperate 'country' - [net release]/[download]/whatever. So what would worldwide then cover? Good point! Are there any real worldwide physical-media releases? I've seen some called such on artist or label sites, but it usually meant something closer to US and a couple European countries... -- Bogdan Butnaru — [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think I am a fallen star, I should wish on myself. – O. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:36:41 +0200, Chris Bransden wrote: On 18/06/06, joan WHITTAKER [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do I take it that once Don Redman has spoken that is it - subject closed - decision made? no :) no offence intended toward don, but unless i'm mistaken, we're all equal in style discussions, unless there is no consensus, in which case Rob Kaye steps in. Yes and No. I have no authority to close a debate and I did not inted to do that. That is, if you want to *change* the current definition of what a release area is, then go ahead. However, it was my impression that the definition was not clear to most people taking part in this discussion. I do recall that this definition was very clear in the past, That is why I wrote: From the Days of Tarragon up to now a release area did always mean the _market_ on which that specific release was available for sale on the release date. This marked is assumed to be a coutry in most cases. I belileve that it is part of the secretary's job to do these things: To make sure that old decisions are respected (but not slavishly followed). Finally, because there was a lot of debate around this issue I added: If I got this wrong then may one of the old-timers here speak up. DonRedman -- Words that are written in CamelCase refer to WikiPages: Visit http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/ the best MusicBrainz documentation around! :-) ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
We are in danger of discussing this topic to death and thereby losing the very thing we sought to do and that is to decide which way we were going to show net releases. In an effort to get this sorted once and for all, may I propose that we agree to show net releases as worldwide where other information is not immediately forthcoming. Already we have started the process of bringing extraneous matters into this discussion and, to my mind, this is the way in which we lose sight of the main objective. Joan - Original Message - From: Don Redman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MusicBrainz style discussion musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:36:41 +0200, Chris Bransden wrote: On 18/06/06, joan WHITTAKER [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do I take it that once Don Redman has spoken that is it - subject closed - decision made? no :) no offence intended toward don, but unless i'm mistaken, we're all equal in style discussions, unless there is no consensus, in which case Rob Kaye steps in. Yes and No. I have no authority to close a debate and I did not inted to do that. That is, if you want to *change* the current definition of what a release area is, then go ahead. However, it was my impression that the definition was not clear to most people taking part in this discussion. I do recall that this definition was very clear in the past, That is why I wrote: From the Days of Tarragon up to now a release area did always mean the _market_ on which that specific release was available for sale on the release date. This marked is assumed to be a coutry in most cases. I belileve that it is part of the secretary's job to do these things: To make sure that old decisions are respected (but not slavishly followed). Finally, because there was a lot of debate around this issue I added: If I got this wrong then may one of the old-timers here speak up. DonRedman -- Words that are written in CamelCase refer to WikiPages: Visit http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/ the best MusicBrainz documentation around! :-) ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
On 6/17/06, Beth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Currently we handle on media releases as to the point of distribution. It was released in the US UK and Germany Japan Speaking of the markets that these releases were distributed in. Do we all realy handle this way? The following is taken from http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/ReleaseCountryStyle : 'Note that the ReleaseCountry of an album is not necessarily the country in which it was produced. The label itself will typically be more relevant. eg, a release on Foo Records UK that has Made in Austria printed on it, will likely be a UK release.' Is telling the homebase of the label matters. Otherwise you wouldn't have multitude of release countries for one release. There are much possibilities and examples around for multiple release Dates/Countries - if the country of origin OR the country of distribution has to be entered in our Country field. Why would net releases be handled any differently? exactly. -- .: NOP AND NIL :. .: Schika :. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
RE: [mb-style] Net Releases
I didn't say Made in I said distributed in. Therefore you're losing all relevance where the release was distributed in favor of where the label originated? We seem to have read that page totally differently. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Schika Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 12:46 AM To: MusicBrainz style discussion Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases On 6/17/06, Beth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Currently we handle on media releases as to the point of distribution. It was released in the US UK and Germany Japan Speaking of the markets that these releases were distributed in. Do we all realy handle this way? The following is taken from http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/ReleaseCountryStyle : 'Note that the ReleaseCountry of an album is not necessarily the country in which it was produced. The label itself will typically be more relevant. eg, a release on Foo Records UK that has Made in Austria printed on it, will likely be a UK release.' Is telling the homebase of the label matters. Otherwise you wouldn't have multitude of release countries for one release. There are much possibilities and examples around for multiple release Dates/Countries - if the country of origin OR the country of distribution has to be entered in our Country field. Why would net releases be handled any differently? exactly. -- .: NOP AND NIL :. .: Schika :. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
RE: [mb-style] Net Releases
Released in... = distributed in (in my opinion) The ReleaseCountry is the country in which an Release was sold from a certain ReleaseDate on -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 12:50 AM To: 'MusicBrainz style discussion' Subject: RE: [mb-style] Net Releases I didn't say Made in I said distributed in. Therefore you're losing all relevance where the release was distributed in favor of where the label originated? We seem to have read that page totally differently. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Schika Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 12:46 AM To: MusicBrainz style discussion Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases On 6/17/06, Beth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Currently we handle on media releases as to the point of distribution. It was released in the US UK and Germany Japan Speaking of the markets that these releases were distributed in. Do we all realy handle this way? The following is taken from http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/ReleaseCountryStyle : 'Note that the ReleaseCountry of an album is not necessarily the country in which it was produced. The label itself will typically be more relevant. eg, a release on Foo Records UK that has Made in Austria printed on it, will likely be a UK release.' Is telling the homebase of the label matters. Otherwise you wouldn't have multitude of release countries for one release. There are much possibilities and examples around for multiple release Dates/Countries - if the country of origin OR the country of distribution has to be entered in our Country field. Why would net releases be handled any differently? exactly. -- .: NOP AND NIL :. .: Schika :. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
On Sun, Jun 18, 2006 at 08:46:06AM +0200, Schika wrote: point of distribution. in which it was produced Production and distibution are not the same thing. The label itself will typically be more relevant. eg, a release on Foo Records UK that has Made in Austria printed on it, will likely be a UK release.' Is telling the homebase of the label matters. It tells of the distribution matter too. I have CDs produced in the EU distributed in the UK by a UK label. --Nikki ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
On Sun, Jun 18, 2006 at 09:33:02AM +0200, Schika wrote: And sorry that I directly copied the text without cutting out the - in our discussion irrelevant part 'that has Made in Austria printed on it, ' - so that everyone could read: 'The label itself will typically be more relevant. eg, a release on Foo Records UK [...] will likely be a UK release.' But that doesn't say The label should be used, it merely says that between label and 'made in', the label's country is more likely to have been the release country. I don't think anyone is going to disagree with that. --Nikki ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
RE: [mb-style] Net Releases
Agreed nikki, but I do feel to totally go with where the label is located instead of where the product was distributed is a very bad practice. If you don't know, great, use the label. There are too many releases that you specifically go for the uk/japan/(your favorite example here) version because it had another song on it. That isn't referring to the label's home base, that's referring to the distribution market the release went out in. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nikki Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 1:38 AM To: MusicBrainz style discussion Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases On Sun, Jun 18, 2006 at 09:33:02AM +0200, Schika wrote: And sorry that I directly copied the text without cutting out the - in our discussion irrelevant part 'that has Made in Austria printed on it, ' - so that everyone could read: 'The label itself will typically be more relevant. eg, a release on Foo Records UK [...] will likely be a UK release.' But that doesn't say The label should be used, it merely says that between label and 'made in', the label's country is more likely to have been the release country. I don't think anyone is going to disagree with that. --Nikki ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
RE: [mb-style] Net Releases
Itunes does have different stores. I don't know if that matters. It's not something that seems to be known though. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bogdan Butnaru Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 3:58 AM To: MusicBrainz style discussion Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases I just read through this entire thread, and I still couldn't figure out something: why is the basic reason we have a release country? I thought the reason was simply that to document initial availability (which is why we don't record import dates)-of course, any record can be bought by anyone, anywhere, with enought effort-, and to disambiguate between different releases with the same name, that may differ in tracklist, mastering and other characteristics. I suppose if we were interested in label/artist country we would add fields directly for that. I think the fact that we do use the label's country for a release when we have no more info is that it just is the same with the record's release country virtually every time (barring exports and other distribution details). I'd say (supposing the above are correct) that applying the same rules to net releases would mean they are worldwide releases almost every time. I have seen things released on the net that are NOT available everywhere: for example, I've seen some things on iTunes that were not sold in France (in that particular case, it was an episode of some show, I think, but I'm sure it's possible for songs too). In that case, that would be a US release. If I'm wrong, can we try to make a clear statement regarding what is the 'release country' field for? -- Bogdan Butnaru - [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think I am a fallen star, I should wish on myself. - O. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
But in my very first post I specifically excluded iTunes, Napster and other such from this debate, because most if not all of their titles are of albums commercially available as CD's and I wanted this debate to concentrate on those which were purely net releases. Joan - Original Message - From: Beth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'MusicBrainz style discussion' musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 11:50 AM Subject: RE: [mb-style] Net Releases Itunes does have different stores. I don't know if that matters. It's not something that seems to be known though. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bogdan Butnaru Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 3:58 AM To: MusicBrainz style discussion Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases I just read through this entire thread, and I still couldn't figure out something: why is the basic reason we have a release country? I thought the reason was simply that to document initial availability (which is why we don't record import dates)-of course, any record can be bought by anyone, anywhere, with enought effort-, and to disambiguate between different releases with the same name, that may differ in tracklist, mastering and other characteristics. I suppose if we were interested in label/artist country we would add fields directly for that. I think the fact that we do use the label's country for a release when we have no more info is that it just is the same with the record's release country virtually every time (barring exports and other distribution details). I'd say (supposing the above are correct) that applying the same rules to net releases would mean they are worldwide releases almost every time. I have seen things released on the net that are NOT available everywhere: for example, I've seen some things on iTunes that were not sold in France (in that particular case, it was an episode of some show, I think, but I'm sure it's possible for songs too). In that case, that would be a US release. If I'm wrong, can we try to make a clear statement regarding what is the 'release country' field for? -- Bogdan Butnaru - [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think I am a fallen star, I should wish on myself. - O. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
On Sun, Jun 18, 2006 at 01:15:48PM +0100, joan WHITTAKER wrote: But in my very first post I specifically excluded iTunes, Napster and other such from this debate, because most if not all of their titles are of albums commercially available as CD's and I wanted this debate to concentrate on those which were purely net releases. iTunes has a clearly defined release area anyway, it won't let you buy songs without living in the right country. --Nikki ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
RE: [mb-style] Net Releases
On 6/18/06, Bogdan Butnaru bogdanb at gmail.com wrote: I'd say (supposing the above are correct) that applying the same rules to net releases would mean they are worldwide releases almost every time. I have seen things released on the net that are NOT available everywhere: for example, I've seen some things on iTunes that were not sold in France (in that particular case, it was an episode of some show, I think, but I'm sure it's possible for songs too). In that case, that would be a US release. Here's another example - NOT iTunes related: When I posted a release from the russian Mastik netlabel at my Netlabel blog, a while back, I got replies that some users can't access this site. Simular replies I got from discogs moderators, when I was going to add a release there with the label URL in the modnote: http://www.mastik.org/?page=releases I never had any problems to connect this site (from Germany). However, the label uploaded the releases to archive.org - http://www.archive.org/details/mastik - also, but in the very first place all download links pointed to their server. If I'm wrong, can we try to make a clear statement regarding what is the 'release country' field for? yes please. [beth] Who do you want it from? It seems like most of the input you're getting isn't good enough and you are seeking some few people in specific. Or, perhaps that's just how set your mind is? I'm not trying to be cutting, but I am trying to get to the bottom of who exactly you need this proof from. [/beth] ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
Excuse me for being somewhat obtuse, but does this then mean that if an album, track or whatever is put out on the INTERNET, then at that time it becomes to all intents and purposes a worldwide release - Original Message - From: Don Redman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MusicBrainz style discussion musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:24:11 +0200, Schika wrote: If I'm wrong, can we try to make a clear statement regarding what is the 'release country' field for? yes please. OK, here is a clear statement: From the Days of Tarragon up to now a release area did always mean the _market_ on which that specific release was available for sale on the release date. This marked is assumed to be a coutry in most cases. The country of the label and the production site _may_ be related to this, but that is not the point. The last time we settled this was in the release area vs. release country and do we add the EU? debate. We realised that we have a problem, since distributors define their markets less and less along national boundaries, but have decided to stick to these with a few exceptions. If I got this wrong then may one of the old-timers here speak up. DonRedman -- Words that are written in CamelCase refer to WikiPages: Visit http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/ the best MusicBrainz documentation around! :-) ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
Surely the fact that all users cannot access the http://www.mastik.org/?page=releases site is not the fault of Mastik. They had an expectation when they uploaded their music that it would be available. The fact that it is not is surely more to do with the ISP providing the service to the person trying to connect. By the way, I had no problem connecting from the UK. Joan - Original Message - From: Schika [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MusicBrainz style discussion musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases On 6/18/06, Bogdan Butnaru [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd say (supposing the above are correct) that applying the same rules to net releases would mean they are worldwide releases almost every time. I have seen things released on the net that are NOT available everywhere: for example, I've seen some things on iTunes that were not sold in France (in that particular case, it was an episode of some show, I think, but I'm sure it's possible for songs too). In that case, that would be a US release. Here's another example - NOT iTunes related: When I posted a release from the russian Mastik netlabel at my Netlabel blog, a while back, I got replies that some users can't access this site. Simular replies I got from discogs moderators, when I was going to add a release there with the label URL in the modnote: http://www.mastik.org/?page=releases I never had any problems to connect this site (from Germany). However, the label uploaded the releases to archive.org - http://www.archive.org/details/mastik - also, but in the very first place all download links pointed to their server. If I'm wrong, can we try to make a clear statement regarding what is the 'release country' field for? yes please. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
iTunes are very territorial Trade protectionism? - Original Message - From: Beth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'MusicBrainz style discussion' musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 7:38 PM Subject: RE: [mb-style] Net Releases I did find it interesting what you said about not being able to purchase from itunes... thanks, I have been wondering. :) It's his ISP, or whomever... why can't he just admit he has a shitty ISP and that he's not the rule but the exception? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joan WHITTAKER Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 12:38 PM To: MusicBrainz style discussion Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases Surely the fact that all users cannot access the http://www.mastik.org/?page=releases site is not the fault of Mastik. They had an expectation when they uploaded their music that it would be available. The fact that it is not is surely more to do with the ISP providing the service to the person trying to connect. By the way, I had no problem connecting from the UK. Joan - Original Message - From: Schika [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MusicBrainz style discussion musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases On 6/18/06, Bogdan Butnaru [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd say (supposing the above are correct) that applying the same rules to net releases would mean they are worldwide releases almost every time. I have seen things released on the net that are NOT available everywhere: for example, I've seen some things on iTunes that were not sold in France (in that particular case, it was an episode of some show, I think, but I'm sure it's possible for songs too). In that case, that would be a US release. Here's another example - NOT iTunes related: When I posted a release from the russian Mastik netlabel at my Netlabel blog, a while back, I got replies that some users can't access this site. Simular replies I got from discogs moderators, when I was going to add a release there with the label URL in the modnote: http://www.mastik.org/?page=releases I never had any problems to connect this site (from Germany). However, the label uploaded the releases to archive.org - http://www.archive.org/details/mastik - also, but in the very first place all download links pointed to their server. If I'm wrong, can we try to make a clear statement regarding what is the 'release country' field for? yes please. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
RE: [mb-style] Net Releases
No clue, I just got really annoyed when I downloaded a video from their site and couldn't put it on my psp.. I never liked it much anyways, but, I certainly have a problem with it now. If Klayton didn't release songs through there I'd never touch it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joan WHITTAKER Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 12:42 PM To: MusicBrainz style discussion Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases iTunes are very territorial Trade protectionism? - Original Message - From: Beth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'MusicBrainz style discussion' musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 7:38 PM Subject: RE: [mb-style] Net Releases I did find it interesting what you said about not being able to purchase from itunes... thanks, I have been wondering. :) It's his ISP, or whomever... why can't he just admit he has a shitty ISP and that he's not the rule but the exception? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joan WHITTAKER Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 12:38 PM To: MusicBrainz style discussion Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases Surely the fact that all users cannot access the http://www.mastik.org/?page=releases site is not the fault of Mastik. They had an expectation when they uploaded their music that it would be available. The fact that it is not is surely more to do with the ISP providing the service to the person trying to connect. By the way, I had no problem connecting from the UK. Joan - Original Message - From: Schika [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MusicBrainz style discussion musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases On 6/18/06, Bogdan Butnaru [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd say (supposing the above are correct) that applying the same rules to net releases would mean they are worldwide releases almost every time. I have seen things released on the net that are NOT available everywhere: for example, I've seen some things on iTunes that were not sold in France (in that particular case, it was an episode of some show, I think, but I'm sure it's possible for songs too). In that case, that would be a US release. Here's another example - NOT iTunes related: When I posted a release from the russian Mastik netlabel at my Netlabel blog, a while back, I got replies that some users can't access this site. Simular replies I got from discogs moderators, when I was going to add a release there with the label URL in the modnote: http://www.mastik.org/?page=releases I never had any problems to connect this site (from Germany). However, the label uploaded the releases to archive.org - http://www.archive.org/details/mastik - also, but in the very first place all download links pointed to their server. If I'm wrong, can we try to make a clear statement regarding what is the 'release country' field for? yes please. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:13:31 +0200, joan WHITTAKER wrote: Excuse me for being somewhat obtuse, but does this then mean that if an album, track or whatever is put out on the INTERNET, then at that time it becomes to all intents and purposes a worldwide release Unless it is not annotated with some stupid you may only download this if you are an US citizen, please add your zip code here statement, yes, that is what it means. If ReleaseArea still means _market_, as it has meant up to now IIRC, then the internet represents a worldwide market. DonRedman -- Words that are written in CamelCase refer to WikiPages: Visit http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/ the best MusicBrainz documentation around! :-) ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
Thank you very much indeed for this. After all, it is basic common sense and I am glad that we have reached a definite conclusion. Your input has been greatly appreciated to settle this question. Joan - Original Message - From: Don Redman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MusicBrainz style discussion musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 7:51 PM Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:13:31 +0200, joan WHITTAKER wrote: Excuse me for being somewhat obtuse, but does this then mean that if an album, track or whatever is put out on the INTERNET, then at that time it becomes to all intents and purposes a worldwide release Unless it is not annotated with some stupid you may only download this if you are an US citizen, please add your zip code here statement, yes, that is what it means. If ReleaseArea still means _market_, as it has meant up to now IIRC, then the internet represents a worldwide market. DonRedman -- Words that are written in CamelCase refer to WikiPages: Visit http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/ the best MusicBrainz documentation around! :-) ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
YIPPEE - Original Message - From: Beth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'MusicBrainz style discussion' musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 7:45 PM Subject: RE: [mb-style] Net Releases No clue, I just got really annoyed when I downloaded a video from their site and couldn't put it on my psp.. I never liked it much anyways, but, I certainly have a problem with it now. If Klayton didn't release songs through there I'd never touch it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joan WHITTAKER Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 12:42 PM To: MusicBrainz style discussion Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases iTunes are very territorial Trade protectionism? - Original Message - From: Beth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'MusicBrainz style discussion' musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 7:38 PM Subject: RE: [mb-style] Net Releases I did find it interesting what you said about not being able to purchase from itunes... thanks, I have been wondering. :) It's his ISP, or whomever... why can't he just admit he has a shitty ISP and that he's not the rule but the exception? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joan WHITTAKER Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 12:38 PM To: MusicBrainz style discussion Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases Surely the fact that all users cannot access the http://www.mastik.org/?page=releases site is not the fault of Mastik. They had an expectation when they uploaded their music that it would be available. The fact that it is not is surely more to do with the ISP providing the service to the person trying to connect. By the way, I had no problem connecting from the UK. Joan - Original Message - From: Schika [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MusicBrainz style discussion musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases On 6/18/06, Bogdan Butnaru [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd say (supposing the above are correct) that applying the same rules to net releases would mean they are worldwide releases almost every time. I have seen things released on the net that are NOT available everywhere: for example, I've seen some things on iTunes that were not sold in France (in that particular case, it was an episode of some show, I think, but I'm sure it's possible for songs too). In that case, that would be a US release. Here's another example - NOT iTunes related: When I posted a release from the russian Mastik netlabel at my Netlabel blog, a while back, I got replies that some users can't access this site. Simular replies I got from discogs moderators, when I was going to add a release there with the label URL in the modnote: http://www.mastik.org/?page=releases I never had any problems to connect this site (from Germany). However, the label uploaded the releases to archive.org - http://www.archive.org/details/mastik - also, but in the very first place all download links pointed to their server. If I'm wrong, can we try to make a clear statement regarding what is the 'release country' field for? yes please. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
On 6/18/06, joan WHITTAKER [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excuse me having to ask, but how do we now get this put into the guidelines? OK our Country field is for the distribution area. This is very clear for internet releases or releases are known that they are only available in an defined area - like releases with an Japan only bonus track or so. What should be entered if we only know the label homebase or doesn't know anything at all? Such things should be clearly defined, before we put a guideline. -- .: NOP AND NIL :. .: Schika :. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
On 6/18/06, joan WHITTAKER [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excuse me for being somewhat obtuse, but does this then mean that if an album, track or whatever is put out on the INTERNET, then at that time it becomes to all intents and purposes a worldwide release I'd formulate this as the (official) action of puting an album available for download (free or for pay) on the Internet, with no geographical restrictions, is a worldwide release of that album on that date. If there are _intentional_ geographical restrictions (iTunes-like), then it's a release for the respective geographical regions. Of course, this leads to several issues, like what happens with individual tracks and arbitrary groups of tracks (parts of albums, etc), several separate releases, etc. - Original Message - From: Don Redman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MusicBrainz style discussion musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:24:11 +0200, Schika wrote: If I'm wrong, can we try to make a clear statement regarding what is the 'release country' field for? yes please. OK, here is a clear statement: From the Days of Tarragon up to now a release area did always mean the _market_ on which that specific release was available for sale on the release date. This marked is assumed to be a coutry in most cases. The country of the label and the production site _may_ be related to this, but that is not the point. The last time we settled this was in the release area vs. release country and do we add the EU? debate. We realised that we have a problem, since distributors define their markets less and less along national boundaries, but have decided to stick to these with a few exceptions. If I got this wrong then may one of the old-timers here speak up. DonRedman -- Words that are written in CamelCase refer to WikiPages: Visit http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/ the best MusicBrainz documentation around! :-) ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style -- Bogdan Butnaru — [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think I am a fallen star, I should wish on myself. – O. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
On 6/18/06, Schika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/18/06, joan WHITTAKER [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excuse me having to ask, but how do we now get this put into the guidelines? OK our Country field is for the distribution area. This is very clear for internet releases or releases are known that they are only available in an defined area - like releases with an Japan only bonus track or so. What should be entered if we only know the label homebase or doesn't know anything at all? Such things should be clearly defined, before we put a guideline. What my actually problem is: I have a bunch of vinyls here, all I know is that I got them here in Germany some day. And I or anybody else could find out in which areas of the world it was actually original distributed back in - let me say 1984 just as example. Another thing is that some physical releases have a code to download an extra song from their website - you can't access this file without the one-time working download code. What is the release country - the same as the physical release or worldwide? -- .: NOP AND NIL :. .: Schika :. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
I agree, though the point is probably academical right now: the track would be recorded in the database as an non-album track (since it's not on a release), and thus would have no release info... On 6/18/06, joan WHITTAKER [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if the album you purchased in Germany has a code to activate an extra song available for download from their website, then by virtue of the fact that you purchased the album in Germany, and the code was available on that German release, then the release country would, ipso facto, be Germany. You cannot download this track if you have not got the physical release, so, it is not therefore available to anyone. - Original Message - From: Schika [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MusicBrainz style discussion musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases On 6/18/06, Schika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/18/06, joan WHITTAKER [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excuse me having to ask, but how do we now get this put into the guidelines? OK our Country field is for the distribution area. This is very clear for internet releases or releases are known that they are only available in an defined area - like releases with an Japan only bonus track or so. What should be entered if we only know the label homebase or doesn't know anything at all? Such things should be clearly defined, before we put a guideline. What my actually problem is: I have a bunch of vinyls here, all I know is that I got them here in Germany some day. And I or anybody else could find out in which areas of the world it was actually original distributed back in - let me say 1984 just as example. Another thing is that some physical releases have a code to download an extra song from their website - you can't access this file without the one-time working download code. What is the release country - the same as the physical release or worldwide? -- .: NOP AND NIL :. .: Schika :. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style -- Bogdan Butnaru — [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think I am a fallen star, I should wish on myself. – O. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
Pardon me asking, but what have a bunch of vinyls got to do with net releases. - Original Message - From: Schika [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MusicBrainz style discussion musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases On 6/18/06, Schika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/18/06, joan WHITTAKER [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excuse me having to ask, but how do we now get this put into the guidelines? OK our Country field is for the distribution area. This is very clear for internet releases or releases are known that they are only available in an defined area - like releases with an Japan only bonus track or so. What should be entered if we only know the label homebase or doesn't know anything at all? Such things should be clearly defined, before we put a guideline. What my actually problem is: I have a bunch of vinyls here, all I know is that I got them here in Germany some day. And I or anybody else could find out in which areas of the world it was actually original distributed back in - let me say 1984 just as example. Another thing is that some physical releases have a code to download an extra song from their website - you can't access this file without the one-time working download code. What is the release country - the same as the physical release or worldwide? -- .: NOP AND NIL :. .: Schika :. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
Yes, it does affect all releases, but this topic is purely about net releases. If you wish to address the question of country of distribution, please start another thread and let us get this particular one settled once and for all. - Original Message - From: Schika [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MusicBrainz style discussion musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 12:08 AM Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases On 6/19/06, joan WHITTAKER [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pardon me asking, but what have a bunch of vinyls got to do with net releases. Aren't we on a position that in our Country field should be entered the country of distribution? Doesn't has this an effect to ALL releases - not only Net releases? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. - Original Message - From: Schika [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MusicBrainz style discussion musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases On 6/18/06, Schika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/18/06, joan WHITTAKER [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excuse me having to ask, but how do we now get this put into the guidelines? OK our Country field is for the distribution area. This is very clear for internet releases or releases are known that they are only available in an defined area - like releases with an Japan only bonus track or so. What should be entered if we only know the label homebase or doesn't know anything at all? Such things should be clearly defined, before we put a guideline. What my actually problem is: I have a bunch of vinyls here, all I know is that I got them here in Germany some day. And I or anybody else could find out in which areas of the world it was actually original distributed back in - let me say 1984 just as example. Another thing is that some physical releases have a code to download an extra song from their website - you can't access this file without the one-time working download code. What is the release country - the same as the physical release or worldwide? -- .: NOP AND NIL :. .: Schika :. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style -- .: NOP AND NIL :. .: Schika :. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
I totally agree with Nikki. The perception of most people is that if it is available on the internet, then it is available worldwide. This is exactly the reason why I brought this up. We have many rules, and that is exactly as it should be if we are to keep a database that is reasonably accurate, but our rules have to be in tune with those of the general public. We cannot and should not be seen to be some form of elitist group who operate by rules outside the norm. Joan - Original Message - From: Nikki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MusicBrainz style discussion musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases On Sat, Jun 17, 2006 at 03:30:00AM +0200, Schika wrote: If a label is known, then the country where it's based (if it's known). If a label is known but not where it's based - or nothing at all is currently known - Unknown Country. I don't agree with that and would only support it if we delete worldwide. In my experience, people think internet releases are worldwide releases, not a release in the label's country. It would just be adding yet another case of our rules aren't what people expect. --Nikki ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
RE: [mb-style] Net Releases
For the record, I support Nikki and Joan's view here. (big surprise huh? :) ) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joan WHITTAKER Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 5:34 AM To: MusicBrainz style discussion Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases I totally agree with Nikki. The perception of most people is that if it is available on the internet, then it is available worldwide. This is exactly the reason why I brought this up. We have many rules, and that is exactly as it should be if we are to keep a database that is reasonably accurate, but our rules have to be in tune with those of the general public. We cannot and should not be seen to be some form of elitist group who operate by rules outside the norm. Joan - Original Message - From: Nikki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MusicBrainz style discussion musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases On Sat, Jun 17, 2006 at 03:30:00AM +0200, Schika wrote: If a label is known, then the country where it's based (if it's known). If a label is known but not where it's based - or nothing at all is currently known - Unknown Country. I don't agree with that and would only support it if we delete worldwide. In my experience, people think internet releases are worldwide releases, not a release in the label's country. It would just be adding yet another case of our rules aren't what people expect. --Nikki ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
RE: [mb-style] Net Releases
I too agree with the view that an internet only release is a worldwide release, because... well because an internet only release IS a worldwide release, even regardless of what a label might say or where it is located. From: Beth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: MusicBrainz style discussionmusicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org To: 'MusicBrainz style discussion' musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org Subject: RE: [mb-style] Net Releases Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 05:38:27 -0600 For the record, I support Nikki and Joan's view here. (big surprise huh? :) ) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of joan WHITTAKER Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 5:34 AM To: MusicBrainz style discussion Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases I totally agree with Nikki. The perception of most people is that if it is available on the internet, then it is available worldwide. This is exactly the reason why I brought this up. We have many rules, and that is exactly as it should be if we are to keep a database that is reasonably accurate, but our rules have to be in tune with those of the general public. We cannot and should not be seen to be some form of elitist group who operate by rules outside the norm. Joan - Original Message - From: Nikki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MusicBrainz style discussion musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases On Sat, Jun 17, 2006 at 03:30:00AM +0200, Schika wrote: If a label is known, then the country where it's based (if it's known). If a label is known but not where it's based - or nothing at all is currently known - Unknown Country. I don't agree with that and would only support it if we delete worldwide. In my experience, people think internet releases are worldwide releases, not a release in the label's country. It would just be adding yet another case of our rules aren't what people expect. --Nikki ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
On 6/17/06, Day Dreamer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I too agree with the view that an internet only release is a worldwide release, because... well because an internet only release IS a worldwide release, even regardless of what a label might say or where it is located. Let me repeat that what you say, maybe I understand something wrong: Internet release == [Worldwide] What the artist / label / distributors (the copyright owners of the release) say doesn't matter. We should prefer using [Worldwide] instead of [Unknown Country] if release area / country / label homebase is not known. Please correct me, if I misssed soemthing in your point of view, how we should handle the metadata of releases. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
RE: [mb-style] Net Releases
Currently we handle on media releases as to the point of distribution. It was released in the US UK and Germany Japan Speaking of the markets that these releases were distributed in. Otherwise you wouldn't have multitude of release countries for one release. Why would net releases be handled any differently? Otherwise there wouldn't be a dig to find the correct Amazon ASIN (without import) http://musicbrainz.org/album/a5eb2a72-86e7-4a96-b63f-a433fef94d5c.html http://musicbrainz.org/album/8c750d3e-b0ae-4028-a00b-fdd05f435ab2.html (this group's record companies are based in the U.S. and Germany, yet this release was only distributed in Mexico) http://musicbrainz.org/album/e46de6fb-f320-4ddf-be16-94d0dfc02658.html (this was only distributed in Germany - both of which are band comfirmed) I'm sure there are a lot of others I could find.. but I don't see a reason to dig deeper. Nyght aka Beth -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Simon Reinhardt Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 11:14 AM To: MusicBrainz style discussion Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases Schika wrote: Let me repeat that what you say, maybe I understand something wrong: Internet release == [Worldwide] What the artist / label / distributors (the copyright owners of the release) say doesn't matter. We should prefer using [Worldwide] instead of [Unknown Country] if release area / country / label homebase is not known. Please correct me, if I misssed soemthing in your point of view, how we should handle the metadata of releases. I guess what causes confusion here is the fact that we did not even agree yet if we use the release country field for the country a release was initially released in by the label (the label's country) or for the area it was *distributed* in. Internet releases are indeed distributed worldwide, noone will doubt that. So I think we should discuss the question what to use the field for in general first. Simon (Shepard) ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
re: [mb-style] Net Releases
net release == wordwide this is obvious to me why? I'll tell you, as I live in norway, I cannot get any release that is *only* released in the US, unless I get someone to send that to me. so by your definition this release should not be available to me, but is it not? I can get it fine. so ergo, it is worldwide or do you disagree with this logical assumption? ~mo :D ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
[mb-style] Net Releases
First of all let me make it clear that I am not talking about music released through iTunes, Napster or similar, which invariably are commercial releases, available in most retail stores, being released on the net. What I would like to get a consensus of opinion on is those releases which are intended for release on the net and will only ever be released in this format. There is a school of thought which says that by virtue of the fact that it is released on the web, then it is a worldwide release and, therefore, available to everyone who has access to the internet. Another school of thought is that it is released in the country in which the record label or host server is situated. Using this argument, if the host label is in the USA, then that release is USA. If elsewhere, then that country takes precedence. Now, I am not trying to appear facetious, but using this argument, we could have a long string of release dates, such as: Release Date: USA 1.1.2006 UK 1.1.2006 Germany 1.1.2006 France 1.1.2006 Japan 1.1.2006 And all would be correct under present guidelines. However, my argument is that if a piece of music is released on the internet, then the intention is that it is equally available to all users of the internet, and that to me means worldwide, notwithstanding the fact that the originator may be USA or UK based. That is irrelevant. Indeed, the fact that the label is based in a specific country can be referred to in an annotation. With the advent of more and more music being released only on the internet, we need to formulate a policy to deal with them and not leave it to chance. May I have your thoughts on this please? Joan BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Whittaker;Joan FN:Joan Whittaker EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] REV:20060617T001658Z END:VCARD ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
Whatever the artist/label/distributor of the release says should be used. If they state it should be Germany, Europe or Worldwide then we have to respect that. They are the owners of the rights and they decide how their data has to be. -- .: NOP AND NIL :. .: Schika :. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
On Sat, Jun 17, 2006 at 02:46:30AM +0200, Schika wrote: Whatever the artist/label/distributor of the release says should be used. If they state it should be Germany, Europe or Worldwide then we have to respect that. They are the owners of the rights and they decide how their data has to be. What about all the ones which don't say? --Nikki ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
On 6/17/06, Nikki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Jun 17, 2006 at 02:46:30AM +0200, Schika wrote: Whatever the artist/label/distributor of the release says should be used. If they state it should be Germany, Europe or Worldwide then we have to respect that. They are the owners of the rights and they decide how their data has to be. What about all the ones which don't say? --Nikki If a label is known, then the country where it's based (if it's known). If a label is known but not where it's based - or nothing at all is currently known - Unknown Country. -- .: NOP AND NIL :. .: Schika :. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
RE: [mb-style] Net Releases
So virtually it appears as if you feel [worldwide] should be deleted altogether? Or only used when the band says Everywhere else? (which I've seen one band that says that. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Schika Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 7:30 PM To: MusicBrainz style discussion Subject: Re: [mb-style] Net Releases On 6/17/06, Nikki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Jun 17, 2006 at 02:46:30AM +0200, Schika wrote: Whatever the artist/label/distributor of the release says should be used. If they state it should be Germany, Europe or Worldwide then we have to respect that. They are the owners of the rights and they decide how their data has to be. What about all the ones which don't say? --Nikki If a label is known, then the country where it's based (if it's known). If a label is known but not where it's based - or nothing at all is currently known - Unknown Country. -- .: NOP AND NIL :. .: Schika :. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] Net Releases
On 6/17/06, Beth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So virtually it appears as if you feel [worldwide] should be deleted altogether? Or only used when the band says Everywhere else? (which I've seen one band that says that. No, I'm against a deletion of [Worldwide]. I say that [Worldwide] should be used when it is mentioned that it is a worldwide release. I've seen that also from artists/bands/labels/distributors. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
