Re: OT: OS definition thread
Hi, On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 12:51:00:PM -0700 Rob 'Feztaa' Park wrote: > Well, every high school in north america would have you think that > without a start button, a computer is completely useless and broken. I'm pretty sure that the school I went to still has those 286 Siemens machines with MS-DOS and Pascal. So, there's maybe some hope left (those machines slow enough to play some gorilla.bas ;-). This is for Germany only, but what to expect if Microsoft and Compaq (just to name two companies) are involved in a campaign to get every school an affordable connection to the internet? Cheers, Rocco. msg26473/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: OS definition thread
Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2002 at 10:36:41:AM + Simon White wrote: > Computer courses should teach about computers, not some proprietary > software guff. Doesn't have to be programming, but how about file systems, > and troubleshooting procedures? Troubleshooting is part of what I think makes most sence. Everybody should learn how to help yourself, including how to gain knowledge, searching for information and stuff like that. Just fundamental things of how to get used to a certain environment on your own. The Windows GUI-only knowledge doesn't help a lot if 'vi' (or edit.com) is the only tool someone has to make the GUI working. Mice won't help a lot if you have to edit config files to make the mouse working... Btw, I often see that former DOS users are having much less trouble to get used to Unix and shells than Windows users. Cheers, Rocco. msg26413/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: OS definition thread
30-Mar-02 at 10:26, Rocco Rutte ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : > No! I was writing about schools. At _school_ others were told how to use > Word and Works. Our teacher really asked us what we want to do the last > two two years in Computer Science. So we decided _not_ to learn how to > use MS Office. The only courses that should teach how to use MS Office are secretarial courses. Anyone with an ounce of computer sense will be doing something far more interesting than what we used to call "typesetting". Computer courses should teach about computers, not some proprietary software guff. Doesn't have to be programming, but how about file systems, and troubleshooting procedures? That is where the world at large is sadly lacking... -- [Simon White. vim/mutt. [EMAIL PROTECTED] GIMPS:60.41% see www.mersenne.org] When the bosses talk about improving productivity, they are never talking about themselves. [Linux user #170823 http://counter.li.org. Home cooked signature rotator.]
Re: OT: OS definition thread
Hi, On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 10:16:13:PM -0700 Rob 'Feztaa' Park wrote: > Alas! Rocco Rutte spake thus: > > In Computer Science I spent two terms on creating a website on something > > dealing with new media (okay, surfing all the time and hacking it > > together in 1/2 day before deadline). Others students have to write web > > pages with Word and do some 'office' with Works. Again: what to expect? > Computer Science? You mean, university level computer science? You try to fool me? ;-) > They > teach you to use MSWord at university? No! I was writing about schools. At _school_ others were told how to use Word and Works. Our teacher really asked us what we want to do the last two two years in Computer Science. So we decided _not_ to learn how to use MS Office. > Get your money back, you were > cheated! Any idiot can use Word with no training. To spend money on > learning this is nothing more than a waste. ... of time, too. Cheers, Rocco. msg26411/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: OS definition thread
On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 10:16:13PM -0700, Rob 'Feztaa' Park wrote: > Alas! Rocco Rutte spake thus: > > In Germany there's a campaign running to connect every school to the > > internet. IIRC, Microsoft and Compaq are involved by contributing > > hardware and software for free/for low price. So what to expect? > > Yuck. It's bad enough that MS practically owns all the schools in NA. > > > In Computer Science I spent two terms on creating a website on something > > dealing with new media (okay, surfing all the time and hacking it > > together in 1/2 day before deadline). Others students have to write web > > pages with Word and do some 'office' with Works. Again: what to expect? > > Computer Science? You mean, university level computer science? They > teach you to use MSWord at university? Get your money back, you were > cheated! Any idiot can use Word with no training. To spend money on > learning this is nothing more than a waste. Well, while I would agree that word isn't computer science...people could stand to learn it properlynearly everyone I know absolutely mangles stuff with it, similarly with excel. Like most things, it is easy to use badly. Michael -- Dr Michael A. Maibaum - (W)+1 (415) 561 1682 - (H)+1 (415) 626 6733 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.gene-hacker.net/> msg26410/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: OS definition thread
--1LKvkjL3sHcu1TtY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alas! Rocco Rutte spake thus: > In Germany there's a campaign running to connect every school to the > internet. IIRC, Microsoft and Compaq are involved by contributing > hardware and software for free/for low price. So what to expect? Yuck. It's bad enough that MS practically owns all the schools in NA. > In Computer Science I spent two terms on creating a website on something > dealing with new media (okay, surfing all the time and hacking it > together in 1/2 day before deadline). Others students have to write web > pages with Word and do some 'office' with Works. Again: what to expect? Computer Science? You mean, university level computer science? They teach you to use MSWord at university? Get your money back, you were cheated! Any idiot can use Word with no training. To spend money on learning this is nothing more than a waste. --=20 Rob 'Feztaa' Park [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- byob, v: Believing Your Own Bull --1LKvkjL3sHcu1TtY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8pUodPTh2iSBKeccRAi8iAJwMLDE/0+I82FKggLLh6TqSCy5aswCfTFQm LStKsMdSH5z7g9HCKt0i+Eo= =A4Zv -END PGP SIGNATURE- --1LKvkjL3sHcu1TtY--
Re: OT: OS definition thread
Hi, On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 12:51:00:PM -0700 Rob 'Feztaa' Park wrote: > Well, every high school in north america would have you think that > without a start button, a computer is completely useless and broken. In Germany there's a campaign running to connect every school to the internet. IIRC, Microsoft and Compaq are involved by contributing hardware and software for free/for low price. So what to expect? In Computer Science I spent two terms on creating a website on something dealing with new media (okay, surfing all the time and hacking it together in 1/2 day before deadline). Others students have to write web pages with Word and do some 'office' with Works. Again: what to expect? Discussions arise every now and then trying to figure out whose fault it actually is. No answer found so far, of course. Cheers, Rocco. msg26407/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: OS definition thread
--0vzXIDBeUiKkjNJl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alas! Shawn McMahon spake thus: > This isn't my opinion, this is basic computer science. What are they > teaching you kids in those schools these days? Well, every high school in north america would have you think that without a start button, a computer is completely useless and broken. --=20 Rob 'Feztaa' Park [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- It is difficult to soar with the eagles when you work with turkeys. --0vzXIDBeUiKkjNJl Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8pMWkPTh2iSBKeccRAmw3AJ9ujqjuz2Qo6LwNqLunOnEqqc0DegCbBg61 pUwpN0SNLFstE+Wf5+bE6No= =hs/9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- --0vzXIDBeUiKkjNJl--
Re: OT: OS definition thread
> > No, not really. It's marketing. > > The definition of OS isn't marketing, it's Computer Science. It's > been presented. It agrees with what I said. Get over it. Okay, i think this argument is finished. I'll summarize: Some people believe that the Operating System is the kernel plus the stuff in /bin. Some people believe it's more than that. Some people believe it's less than that. There's no ultimate authority on the matter, and as demonstrated, even computer scientists have varied opinions on it. Usually Webster's dictionary is used to settle this sort of dispute, but they're not very helpful in this case. So we're just going to have to agree to disagree and let the offtopic thread die. msg26395/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: OS definition thread
* On 2002.03.29, in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, * "Shawn McMahon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > begin quoting what David Champion said on Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 12:58:32PM -0600: > > No, not really. It's marketing. > > The definition of OS isn't marketing, it's Computer Science. It's > been presented. It agrees with what I said. Get over it. You're the best, Shawn! *smooch* -- -D.[EMAIL PROTECTED]NSITUniversity of Chicago
Re: OT: OS definition thread
begin quoting what David Champion said on Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 12:58:32PM -0600: > No, not really. It's marketing. The definition of OS isn't marketing, it's Computer Science. It's been presented. It agrees with what I said. Get over it. msg26387/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: OS definition thread
* On 2002.03.29, in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, * "Shawn McMahon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > SunOS 5.8 is a component of the Solaris operating environment. Guess > what OS stands for? SunOS 5.8 is the KERNEL, not the operating > environment. That's not actually true. "SunOS" refers to the kernel and the basic UNIX components -- including ps and sh. The "Solaris Operating Environment" refers to SunOS plus all add-on packaged that they ship: OpenWindows (if present), CDE, volume management software, network management software, etc. > This isn't my opinion, this is basic computer science. What are they > teaching you kids in those schools these days? No, not really. It's marketing. -- -D.[EMAIL PROTECTED]NSITUniversity of Chicago
