Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-21 Thread Zoran Vasiljevic 


On 21.09.2006, at 07:29, Bernd Eidenschink wrote:

You have very tough requirements for your revision control system  
and made

that very clear.


Ah, no.. tough it is not: simple to use, must do the job.
That isn't tough. It is just that I do not see any benefit.
Therefore I asked about what _is_ really the benefit of svn
compared to cvs that would justify the move. After all,
we have so many things that we want to do, that time of the
universe will not be enough for all. Instead of pouring
precious time in some "fancy" new tool, I'd rather stick
to what I have as long as it does the job fine and is convenient
and simple to use. So far cvs has been doing the job OK and
I could not see what svn can do better, looking at our
(moderate) needs.

Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-20 Thread Bernd Eidenschink 
> On 20.09.2006, at 17:53, Bernd Eidenschink wrote:
> > If you have the client installed, simply try for a checkout:
> >
> > # svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/naviserver/trunk/
> > naviserver
>
> Simple? Simple???
[...]
>There you go. What is simple here? My (pessimistic, but close to  
>reality)
>experience tells me (and this keeps prooving itself) that NOTHING
>(I mean really _NOTHING_) is simple.

Zoran, this became a self-fullfilling prophecy! 
I'm not the scapegoat here: I am not paid to play an evangelist of SVN and 
gave an example of the usage after you wrote:

>Provided we all agree (count me in)
>when/how you plan to do it?

which gave me the impression you are somewhat ready for a test so I added 
examples of usage. I use SVN at work, I think it's better, but it does 
_absolutely not matter_ to me if it is used by everyone and every project 
(again: absolutely not! I don't care). I'm convinced it can be a real benefit 
if you can't stay with some CVS oddities, but I know as well: Never change a 
running system.

You have very tough requirements for your revision control system and made 
that very clear.

Don't switch.

Bernd.

Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-20 Thread Zoran Vasiljevic 


On 20.09.2006, at 21:36, Vlad Seryakov wrote:


In out simplest case no benefits because out repository structure does
not change often. It is just more modern source control thing, but we
can stay on CVS.


OK. More (or less) modern, I do not care. It has to do the job
and be reasonably simple to use, which cvs is.
I would say: if ain't broken, don't fix it. We have enough
"construction sites" to take care of, which are more important.

Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-20 Thread Vlad Seryakov 
In out simplest case no benefits because out repository structure does 
not change often. It is just more modern source control thing, but we 
can stay on CVS.


Zoran Vasiljevic wrote:

On 20.09.2006, at 21:26, Vlad Seryakov wrote:


Strange, i just ran this command i did not have error messages


Yes. I tried it again and it worked here as well.
It seems that this thing is not that stable as
one would think...

I sill miss the real benefit. As we are not hosting
the repository, what obvious benefits we will get from svn?
I mostly do cvs update, cvs commit and sometimes cvs diff.
Very seldom cvs rtag.
So, how is this svn going to change my life (to better)
if I now use svn instead of cvs? I still see no benefit
but I'm sure you can tell me couple of them.




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Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-20 Thread Zoran Vasiljevic 


On 20.09.2006, at 21:26, Vlad Seryakov wrote:


Strange, i just ran this command i did not have error messages


Yes. I tried it again and it worked here as well.
It seems that this thing is not that stable as
one would think...

I sill miss the real benefit. As we are not hosting
the repository, what obvious benefits we will get from svn?
I mostly do cvs update, cvs commit and sometimes cvs diff.
Very seldom cvs rtag.
So, how is this svn going to change my life (to better)
if I now use svn instead of cvs? I still see no benefit
but I'm sure you can tell me couple of them.

Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-20 Thread Vlad Seryakov 

Strange, i just ran this command i did not have error messages

user/passwd it will ask on commit

Zoran Vasiljevic wrote:

On 20.09.2006, at 17:53, Bernd Eidenschink wrote:


If you have the client installed, simply try for a checkout:

# svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/naviserver/trunk/  
naviserver


Simple? Simple???

After some struggle, I got that svn client installaed.
And:

zvpb:~/sf/svn zoran$ svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/ 
naviserver/trunk/ naviserver
Error validating server certificate for 'https://svn.sourceforge.net: 
443':

- The certificate is not issued by a trusted authority. Use the
fingerprint to validate the certificate manually!
Certificate information:
- Hostname: *.sourceforge.net
- Valid: from Dec  8 13:40:07 2005 GMT until Feb  7 13:40:07 2007 GMT
- Issuer: Equifax Secure Certificate Authority, Equifax, US
- Fingerprint: 49:b8:cb:87:04:8c:49:39:45:83:dd:4c:cf:c7:54:57:b0:9e: 
84:5d

(R)eject, accept (t)emporarily or accept (p)ermanently? p
svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/svnroot/naviserver/trunk'
svn: PROPFIND of '/svnroot/naviserver/trunk': Could not read status  
line: Secure connection truncated (https://svn.sourceforge.net)


There you go. What is simple here? My (pessimistic, but close to  
reality)

experience tells me (and this keeps prooving itself) that NOTHING
(I mean really _NOTHING_) is simple.

Also, I do not understand where is the username/password here?
Who asks me for the username/password? 


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Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-20 Thread Zoran Vasiljevic 


On 20.09.2006, at 17:53, Bernd Eidenschink wrote:



If you have the client installed, simply try for a checkout:

# svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/naviserver/trunk/  
naviserver


Simple? Simple???

After some struggle, I got that svn client installaed.
And:

zvpb:~/sf/svn zoran$ svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/ 
naviserver/trunk/ naviserver
Error validating server certificate for 'https://svn.sourceforge.net: 
443':

- The certificate is not issued by a trusted authority. Use the
   fingerprint to validate the certificate manually!
Certificate information:
- Hostname: *.sourceforge.net
- Valid: from Dec  8 13:40:07 2005 GMT until Feb  7 13:40:07 2007 GMT
- Issuer: Equifax Secure Certificate Authority, Equifax, US
- Fingerprint: 49:b8:cb:87:04:8c:49:39:45:83:dd:4c:cf:c7:54:57:b0:9e: 
84:5d

(R)eject, accept (t)emporarily or accept (p)ermanently? p
svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/svnroot/naviserver/trunk'
svn: PROPFIND of '/svnroot/naviserver/trunk': Could not read status  
line: Secure connection truncated (https://svn.sourceforge.net)


There you go. What is simple here? My (pessimistic, but close to  
reality)

experience tells me (and this keeps prooving itself) that NOTHING
(I mean really _NOTHING_) is simple.

Also, I do not understand where is the username/password here?
Who asks me for the username/password?

Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-20 Thread Zoran Vasiljevic 


On 20.09.2006, at 18:32, Vlad Seryakov wrote:


Oh, no hurry, no switching, current SVN copy is just to get to know it
and play with it to see if it is worth switching


For me it looks like weekned job, where I'd rather do
something else. I thougt it to be a download, install
and use. It is far from that.

Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-20 Thread Vlad Seryakov 
Oh, no hurry, no switching, current SVN copy is just to get to know it 
and play with it to see if it is worth switching


Zoran Vasiljevic wrote:

On 20.09.2006, at 17:53, Bernd Eidenschink wrote:


If you have the client installed, simply try for a checkout:


AH, this is really NOT simple...

I would say, please _do_not_ switch to svn anything until
I managed to get all this (clients) installed.

When I pull svn-client using Fink commander for Mac OSX,
it breaks with tons of unresolved packages, blablabla...
For the svn-ssl client it's even worse. I do not know
how to install this client(s) w/o installing 55 other
packages that I do not need and do not know... Its seems
like another 10 hours adventure, backing up disks, restoring
etc pp. I do not have time for this, really...

This is just what I ment: nothing is simple.




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Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-20 Thread Zoran Vasiljevic 


On 20.09.2006, at 18:29, Zoran Vasiljevic wrote:



AH, this is really NOT simple...



For the record:

Reading Package Lists...
Building Dependency Tree...
You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these:
Sorry, but the following packages have unmet dependencies:
  storable-pm: Depends: storable-pm560 but it is not installable.  
For Fink users, this often means that you have attempted to install a  
package from the binary distribution which depends on a "Restrictive"  
package. See ,  or
storable-pm561 but it is not installable.  
For Fink users, this often means that you have attempted to install a  
package from the binary distribution which depends on a "Restrictive"  
package. See ,  or
perl580-core but it is not installable. For  
Fink users, this often means that you have attempted to install a  
package from the binary distribution which depends on a "Restrictive"  
package. See ,  or
perl581-core but it is not installable. For  
Fink users, this often means that you have attempted to install a  
package from the binary distribution which depends on a "Restrictive"  
package. See ,  or
perl584-core but it is not installable. For  
Fink users, this often means that you have attempted to install a  
package from the binary distribution which depends on a "Restrictive"  
package. See , 
  svn-client: Depends: svn-shlibs (= 1.0.6-11) but it is not going  
to be installed
E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or  
specify a solution).


This is what I ment.

Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-20 Thread Zoran Vasiljevic 


On 20.09.2006, at 17:53, Bernd Eidenschink wrote:



If you have the client installed, simply try for a checkout:


AH, this is really NOT simple...

I would say, please _do_not_ switch to svn anything until
I managed to get all this (clients) installed.

When I pull svn-client using Fink commander for Mac OSX,
it breaks with tons of unresolved packages, blablabla...
For the svn-ssl client it's even worse. I do not know
how to install this client(s) w/o installing 55 other
packages that I do not need and do not know... Its seems
like another 10 hours adventure, backing up disks, restoring
etc pp. I do not have time for this, really...

This is just what I ment: nothing is simple.

Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-20 Thread Vlad Seryakov 

svn should support http or https, i have just one binary

Zoran Vasiljevic wrote:

On 20.09.2006, at 17:53, Bernd Eidenschink wrote:

It is already available, i imported all branches and tags into  
SVN, go
to SF and try browse Subversion. Once everybody agree, i will re- 
import

most recent CVS version.

If you have the client installed, simply try for a checkout:


Nothing is simple.
Do I need the svn or svn-ssl client for that?




# svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/naviserver/trunk/  
naviserver


and you will get the "HEAD" aka. "trunk" (SVN) of modules/ and  
naviserver/.


You can watch the dir structure with:

# svn list https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/naviserver/
branches/
tags/
trunk/

# svn list https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/naviserver/tags/
HEAD/
R01/
R0_0/
V1/
V10/
before-tclvfs/
initial-import/
naviserver-4_99_0-release/
naviserver-4_99_1-release/
nspostgres-4/

If you plan to integrate Javascript, you would "tag" like:

svn copy https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/naviserver/trunk/ 
naviserver \

https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/naviserver/tags/before-javascript

It's a cheap copy, as long as you don't commit into the "tag"  
directory (what

would transform it into a branch). Simple thing.

Diff local copy against a previous revision of a file:
svn diff -r PREV 
("PREV" as shortcut, as well as number).

One thing to get used to: The revision number FOR THE WHOLE PROJECT is
incremented by a state change, not just the number for a file.

If you want to have some shortcut like "$Id" expand in a file, in  
SVN this is

a property, you explicitely set it. This is a onetime task.

Bernd.

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Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-20 Thread Zoran Vasiljevic 


On 20.09.2006, at 17:53, Bernd Eidenschink wrote:

It is already available, i imported all branches and tags into  
SVN, go
to SF and try browse Subversion. Once everybody agree, i will re- 
import

most recent CVS version.


If you have the client installed, simply try for a checkout:


Nothing is simple.
Do I need the svn or svn-ssl client for that?






# svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/naviserver/trunk/  
naviserver


and you will get the "HEAD" aka. "trunk" (SVN) of modules/ and  
naviserver/.


You can watch the dir structure with:

# svn list https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/naviserver/
branches/
tags/
trunk/

# svn list https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/naviserver/tags/
HEAD/
R01/
R0_0/
V1/
V10/
before-tclvfs/
initial-import/
naviserver-4_99_0-release/
naviserver-4_99_1-release/
nspostgres-4/

If you plan to integrate Javascript, you would "tag" like:

svn copy https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/naviserver/trunk/ 
naviserver \

https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/naviserver/tags/before-javascript

It's a cheap copy, as long as you don't commit into the "tag"  
directory (what

would transform it into a branch). Simple thing.

Diff local copy against a previous revision of a file:
svn diff -r PREV 
("PREV" as shortcut, as well as number).

One thing to get used to: The revision number FOR THE WHOLE PROJECT is
incremented by a state change, not just the number for a file.

If you want to have some shortcut like "$Id" expand in a file, in  
SVN this is

a property, you explicitely set it. This is a onetime task.

Bernd.

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Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-20 Thread Bernd Eidenschink 
> It is already available, i imported all branches and tags into SVN, go
> to SF and try browse Subversion. Once everybody agree, i will re-import
> most recent CVS version.

If you have the client installed, simply try for a checkout:

# svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/naviserver/trunk/ naviserver

and you will get the "HEAD" aka. "trunk" (SVN) of modules/ and naviserver/.

You can watch the dir structure with:

# svn list https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/naviserver/
branches/
tags/
trunk/

# svn list https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/naviserver/tags/
HEAD/
R01/
R0_0/
V1/
V10/
before-tclvfs/
initial-import/
naviserver-4_99_0-release/
naviserver-4_99_1-release/
nspostgres-4/

If you plan to integrate Javascript, you would "tag" like:

svn copy https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/naviserver/trunk/naviserver \
https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/naviserver/tags/before-javascript

It's a cheap copy, as long as you don't commit into the "tag" directory (what 
would transform it into a branch). Simple thing.

Diff local copy against a previous revision of a file:
svn diff -r PREV 
("PREV" as shortcut, as well as number).

One thing to get used to: The revision number FOR THE WHOLE PROJECT is 
incremented by a state change, not just the number for a file.

If you want to have some shortcut like "$Id" expand in a file, in SVN this is 
a property, you explicitely set it. This is a onetime task.

Bernd.

Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-20 Thread Vlad Seryakov 
We need trunk/ only, i guess thos eold tags and branches are CVs 
artifacts:-))0


Zoran Vasiljevic wrote:

On 20.09.2006, at 17:30, Vlad Seryakov wrote:


It is already available, i imported all branches and tags into SVN, go
to SF and try browse Subversion. Once everybody agree, i will re- 
import

most recent CVS version.



Hm
  Rev.   Age Author   Last log entry

NAVISERVER/ 	 352 	 13 months 	  	 This commit was manufactured by  
cvs2svn to create branch 'NAVISERVER'.
NaviServer/ 	 1007 	 12 days 	  	 This commit was manufactured by  
cvs2svn to create branch 'NaviServer'.
Naviserver/ 	 870 	 2 months 	  	 This commit was manufactured by  
cvs2svn to create branch 'Naviserver'.
initial/ 	 3 	 19 months 	  	 This commit was manufactured by cvs2svn  
to create branch 'initial'.
nspostgres/ 	 228 	 15 months 	  	 This commit was manufactured by  
cvs2svn to create branch 'nspostgres'.
sdeasey/ 	 224 	 15 months 	  	 This commit was manufactured by  
cvs2svn to create branch 'sdeasey'.


What is all this upper/lowercase thing?
I thought we have something like:

naviserver
modules

BTW, in CVS, there are lot of "man" files imported at the
top of the tree. Those should be removed, I think.

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Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-20 Thread Zoran Vasiljevic 


On 20.09.2006, at 17:30, Vlad Seryakov wrote:


It is already available, i imported all branches and tags into SVN, go
to SF and try browse Subversion. Once everybody agree, i will re- 
import

most recent CVS version.



Hm
 Rev.Age Author   Last log entry

NAVISERVER/ 	 352 	 13 months 	  	 This commit was manufactured by  
cvs2svn to create branch 'NAVISERVER'.
NaviServer/ 	 1007 	 12 days 	  	 This commit was manufactured by  
cvs2svn to create branch 'NaviServer'.
Naviserver/ 	 870 	 2 months 	  	 This commit was manufactured by  
cvs2svn to create branch 'Naviserver'.
initial/ 	 3 	 19 months 	  	 This commit was manufactured by cvs2svn  
to create branch 'initial'.
nspostgres/ 	 228 	 15 months 	  	 This commit was manufactured by  
cvs2svn to create branch 'nspostgres'.
sdeasey/ 	 224 	 15 months 	  	 This commit was manufactured by  
cvs2svn to create branch 'sdeasey'.


What is all this upper/lowercase thing?
I thought we have something like:

naviserver
modules

BTW, in CVS, there are lot of "man" files imported at the
top of the tree. Those should be removed, I think.

Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-20 Thread Vlad Seryakov 
It is already available, i imported all branches and tags into SVN, go 
to SF and try browse Subversion. Once everybody agree, i will re-import 
most recent CVS version.



Zoran Vasiljevic wrote:

On 20.09.2006, at 17:17, Vlad Seryakov wrote:


Yes, subversion is open-source and available for all platforms.

http://subversion.tigris.org/


OK. So what about the log history from CVS?
I guess there is some kind of magic export/import
that would move all to subversion?
The SF also supports subversion (I guess yes).

Provided we all agree (count me in)
when/how you plan to do it?



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Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-20 Thread Zoran Vasiljevic 


On 20.09.2006, at 17:17, Vlad Seryakov wrote:


Yes, subversion is open-source and available for all platforms.

http://subversion.tigris.org/


OK. So what about the log history from CVS?
I guess there is some kind of magic export/import
that would move all to subversion?
The SF also supports subversion (I guess yes).

Provided we all agree (count me in)
when/how you plan to do it?

Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-20 Thread Vlad Seryakov 

Yes, subversion is open-source and available for all platforms.

http://subversion.tigris.org/

Zoran Vasiljevic wrote:

On 20.09.2006, at 16:31, Vlad Seryakov wrote:


Nothing new, old commands are the same:

cvs commit --- svn commit
cvs update --- svn update

New things like:

svn mv
svn rm



I guess I would need to install new software.
Is there some ugly license attached that will
hunt me later on, as we are commercial company?
I'd need following platforms:

   Solaris 2.6+ (SPARC), Solaris x86 (Intel)
   Mac OSX 10.2 (PPC) Mac OSX 10.4+ (Intel)
   Linux (SuSE 8.1)

those are my development platforms and that
SW should run there (as CVS does).
In future I'd need AIX 5 and HP/UX 11 in addition
to this list. What about that?

Background: is SVN open-source? Can any/everybody
compile it, as CVS?



  
  


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Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-20 Thread Zoran Vasiljevic 


On 20.09.2006, at 16:31, Vlad Seryakov wrote:


Nothing new, old commands are the same:

cvs commit --- svn commit
cvs update --- svn update

New things like:

svn mv
svn rm



I guess I would need to install new software.
Is there some ugly license attached that will
hunt me later on, as we are commercial company?
I'd need following platforms:

  Solaris 2.6+ (SPARC), Solaris x86 (Intel)
  Mac OSX 10.2 (PPC) Mac OSX 10.4+ (Intel)
  Linux (SuSE 8.1)

those are my development platforms and that
SW should run there (as CVS does).
In future I'd need AIX 5 and HP/UX 11 in addition
to this list. What about that?

Background: is SVN open-source? Can any/everybody
compile it, as CVS?

Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-20 Thread Vlad Seryakov 

Nothing new, old commands are the same:

cvs commit --- svn commit
cvs update --- svn update

New things like:

svn mv
svn rm


Basically, easier file/directory manipulation

also, it caches svn password, so no need to enter it every time:-)))

Zoran Vasiljevic wrote:

On 20.09.2006, at 15:50, Vlad Seryakov wrote:


What do you think about migrating to SVN?



What (mew) do I have to learn? How is this going
to benefit me or the project?

Not that I'm lazy to learn new things. I just have
very little time, if this is not something that
considerably adds value.



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--
Vlad Seryakov
571 262-8608 office
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.crystalballinc.com/vlad/

Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-20 Thread Zoran Vasiljevic 


On 20.09.2006, at 15:50, Vlad Seryakov wrote:



What do you think about migrating to SVN?



What (mew) do I have to learn? How is this going
to benefit me or the project?

Not that I'm lazy to learn new things. I just have
very little time, if this is not something that
considerably adds value.

Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-20 Thread Vlad Seryakov 

Zoran, Stephen,

What do you think about migrating to SVN?

Vlad Seryakov wrote:
I converted and loaded current CVS HEAD into naviserver SVN repository, 
CVS is still primary but we can play with SVN and decide to switch or 
keep CVS. Personally, i switched to SVN more than a year ago in all my 
projects and very happy with it, much better than CVS, especially with 
directory and files handling. Of course i almost all the time work with 
HEAD so i am the simplest case.



Migrating process may take some time, so i think tomorrow SVN repo will 
be ready to use.




--
Vlad Seryakov
571 262-8608 office
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.crystalballinc.com/vlad/

Re: [naviserver-devel] SVN repository

2006-09-19 Thread Bernd Eidenschink 

Hi Vlad,

> Of course i almost all the time work with
> HEAD so i am the simplest case.

At the office we followed the "default" SVN approach with a directory 
structure of

# svn list file:///repository/projectname
branches/
tags/
trunk/

It's really nice to simply copy from trunk (or local working copy) into a new 
directory below "tags/" and have a "tag". Or a "branch". It's a cheap copy, 
only activated when you commit to it later on.
It's not all peaches and cream, but I like the easy way of moving files and 
directories around or the transactional approach.

Bernd.