Re: openbsd -> netbsd : same yet feels different ...
At date and time Wed, 18 Jun 2014 07:39:59 +0300, Terho Uotila wrote: > On Wed, 18 Jun 2014 00:06:12 +0100 > Gerard Lally wrote: > > > guide. Indeed I am still not 100% clear about it. It's also difficult > > to get mk.conf working so that GNU and Perl and Sourceforge software > > is pulled from a local mirror. No matter what I try to get it pulled > > from HEAnet in Dublin most of it still seems to come from Vienna! > > > > Have you tried setting MASTER_SORT in /etc/mk.conf? > (see /usr/pkgsrc/mk/defaults/mk.conf) > > Sites seem to be listed in /usr/pkgsrc/mk/fetch/sites.mk, and most do > not have irish mirror listed, maybe you also need to add > MASTER_SITE_XXX+= ftp://your.nearest.mirror to /etc/mk.conf > > (I haven't tried these, but they don't seem unreasonable ideas to try.) Yes I tried it with .ie first in MASTER_SORT but it didn't seem to make any difference. I then disabled MASTER_RANDOM_SORT and then added the following at the bottom of mk.conf: MASTER_SITE_GNU=ftp://ftp.heanet.ie/pub/gnu/ MASTER_SITE_SOURCEFORGE=ftp://ftp.heanet.ie/mirrors/sourceforge/ This seems to have fixed it for me so far. I'll now try Irish mirrors for Perl. Many thanks! -- Gerard Lally
Re: openbsd -> netbsd : same yet feels different ...
On 06/18/2014 03:22 PM, Chris Bannister wrote: On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 11:32:01PM +0200, Ottavio Caruso wrote: On 17 June 2014 20:59, g.lister wrote: Hi Mayuresh, Can I be grumpy for a second? What happened to bottom posting? Has it gone out of fashion? Interleaved is better! Oh! and trim out any unnecessary content. Got it! Cheers, george
Re: openbsd -> netbsd : same yet feels different ...
On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 11:32:01PM +0200, Ottavio Caruso wrote: > On 17 June 2014 20:59, g.lister wrote: > > Hi Mayuresh, > > > Can I be grumpy for a second? > > What happened to bottom posting? Has it gone out of fashion? Interleaved is better! Oh! and trim out any unnecessary content. -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X
Re: openbsd -> netbsd : same yet feels different ...
On Wed, 18 Jun 2014 00:06:12 +0100 Gerard Lally wrote: > guide. Indeed I am still not 100% clear about it. It's also difficult > to get mk.conf working so that GNU and Perl and Sourceforge software > is pulled from a local mirror. No matter what I try to get it pulled > from HEAnet in Dublin most of it still seems to come from Vienna! > Have you tried setting MASTER_SORT in /etc/mk.conf? (see /usr/pkgsrc/mk/defaults/mk.conf) Sites seem to be listed in /usr/pkgsrc/mk/fetch/sites.mk, and most do not have irish mirror listed, maybe you also need to add MASTER_SITE_XXX+= ftp://your.nearest.mirror to /etc/mk.conf (I haven't tried these, but they don't seem unreasonable ideas to try.)
Re: openbsd -> netbsd : same yet feels different ...
> hello, > it's been 3 days since i took advice from "aaron b" and migrated > to netbsd from openbsd. > i won't go overboard and say that i'm an instant fan-boy, but > frankly, the system feels the same, yet quite different. > for one, the responsiveness while using the operating system is > much better than under openbsd (or even freebsd). > secondly, the community (mailing list) isn't grumpy. :) > i migrated primarily because of the upcoming support for "lua" > throughout the operating system, hope it materializes. > what else could someone who's not so much into system setup and > administration, nor into systems programming do with netbsd? > ah yes, i am not much of a 'gui' user, so will be working at the > console, primarily, but would be nice to know if there's anyone > here using or carrying over 'cwm' from openbsd, it's kinda nice. > in closing, thanks for gracious support i have received ever > since i started pestering the list with questions of a naive type. > warm regards, > ~mayuresh I've never been on an OpenBSD emailing list, though I've heard about their grumpiness. Arch Linux emailing lists were grumpy, but I never actually got that far because of overaggressive moderators. I couldn't even ask a reasonable question, how to rebuild the system from source as is done with FreeBSD and NetBSD. So I became an infant mortality on the Arch Linux mailing lists. That was around May 8, 2013. Big thing that sticks out like a sore thumb with OpenBSD is lack of support for GPT (also USB 3.0, though that lack is present in NetBSD too). Now, with GPT, I don't have to deal with BSD disklabels any more on new installations. I can't access my hard drives from OpenBSD. My recent experience with OpenBSD is from the live USB liveusb-openbsd.sourceforge.net On MSI Z77 MPOWER motherboard, Linux and NetBSD connect with the Ethernet, while FreeBSD, OpenBSD and DragonFly recognize the Ethernet but bug out. That is a big attraction for me with NetBSD. Tom
Re: openbsd -> netbsd : same yet feels different ...
At date and time Tue, 17 Jun 2014 13:43:05 +, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: > hello, > > it's been 3 days since i took advice from "aaron b" and migrated > to netbsd from openbsd. > > i won't go overboard and say that i'm an instant fan-boy, but > frankly, the system feels the same, yet quite different. > > for one, the responsiveness while using the operating system is > much better than under openbsd (or even freebsd). > secondly, the community (mailing list) isn't grumpy. :) > > i migrated primarily because of the upcoming support for "lua" > throughout the operating system, hope it materializes. > > what else could someone who's not so much into system setup and > administration, nor into systems programming do with netbsd? > ah yes, i am not much of a 'gui' user, so will be working at the > console, primarily, but would be nice to know if there's anyone > here using or carrying over 'cwm' from openbsd, it's kinda nice. I too moved from OpenBSD to NetBSD. (For 20+ years before that I was an illiterate product of the Irish education system, knowing and caring for nothing other than Microsoft Windows.) I liked and still like OpenBSD: their pf packet filter with queueing integrated; their work on OpenSSH; and their commitment to security. But a couple of things nagged me. One was the recommendation not to install from source. The other was the outright refusal to countenance OpenBSD as a host for virtual machines. When I discovered NetBSD it was like a breath of fresh air. The whole system has a feel to it that is just right. And NetBSD has Xen! pkgsrc has "just-in-time" su! NetBSD has veriexec! LVM and npf have arrived! NetBSD 7 will have ipfilter 5, which can block based on domain names! Honestly, to my mind NetBSD feels like a beautifully engineered system, much more than any other system I have tried. I am not a programmer or a professional sysadmin. I understand every system has its flaws, and I certainly have encountered them along the way in NetBSD. Things I'd love to see in NetBSD: Dragonfly BSD's Hammer; a more complete wiki, which supersedes all the conflicting and out-of-date documentation out there. I would also like to see a *step-by-step* guide to pkgsrc on NetBSD. The pkgsrc guide falls short of giving this. For example, it makes the assumption we know where mk.conf is, and where it should go, and what adjustments we need to make to the file before we start using pkgsrc. It took me a long time to understand the difference between "just-in-time" su and compiling an unprivileged build: this will seem ridiculously obvious to those in the know but to absolute beginners it is thoroughly confusing and there is no clear explanation in the guide. Indeed I am still not 100% clear about it. It's also difficult to get mk.conf working so that GNU and Perl and Sourceforge software is pulled from a local mirror. No matter what I try to get it pulled from HEAnet in Dublin most of it still seems to come from Vienna! These criticisms aside, NetBSD remains for me the gold standard in operating system design and behaviour. The NetBSD developers and users here are patient and friendly. They don't tolerate anything less than excellence, and they are patient. Too patient sometimes! I am dying to see 7 branched! But at least their conservatism means we will never see any of the brain-dead rubbish that has infested Linux make its way into NetBSD. -- Gerard Lally
Re: openbsd -> netbsd : same yet feels different ...
On 17 June 2014 20:59, g.lister wrote: > Hi Mayuresh, Can I be grumpy for a second? What happened to bottom posting? Has it gone out of fashion? -- Ottavio
Re: openbsd -> netbsd : same yet feels different ...
Hi Mayuresh, > i won't go overboard and say that i'm an instant fan-boy, but > frankly, the system feels the same, yet quite different. I am relatively new myself so nice to hear other people are also considering and using NetBSD. > for one, the responsiveness while using the operating system is > much better than under openbsd (or even freebsd). I am working on a project of mine and was running automated unit tests on NetBSD, OpenBSD and FreeBSD by rsync-ing some C code to each over sftp/compiling/running and the tests (i386 PIII or IVs). I was debating which one to pick of the 3 as dev platform, currently on Ubuntu, and was leaning towards OpenBSD mostly... so I noticed that the sync and test run I started on NetBSD after the one on OpenBSD finished before OpenBSD was somewhere half through the operation and at that time I was set ... time is precious and I would rather spend less time waiting for a computer. Plus NetBSD feels really well engineered, things are almost to natural to do (compared to say SLES and Yast), there are man pages etc., things are in the same location pre-configured and ready to go, pkgin is like apt-get, pkgsrc is awesome as it lets you build easily from source all kinds of stuff, and last but not least the list is really really good quick and to the point responses, thank you! > i migrated primarily because of the upcoming support for "lua" > throughout the operating system, hope it materializes. Those changes should be now in CURRENT you can use it in a kernel module which means you have to write one of course. I met Marc Balmer at a Lua conference and he was very kind to do a demonstrate it for me. I am no expert at kernel modules etc.. so take this with a grain of salt but basically that is what I could understand i.e. a Lua state machine is loaded and you can use it to run Lua code in kernel space and therefore do kernel related work in Lua. Marc is working on line disciplines I think and he saw it beneficial as prototyping stuff, which with a scripting language is of course easy to understand. Of course the big thing is exposing kernel stuff in Lua, which I think I saw a proposal for a project on. This would make kernel development more accessible. Personally I like to have options and I am always split between easy and things that are hard should remain so as there is a reason for them to be that way, but I definitely was interested by this addition as well. I look forward to learning more about RUMP to and figuring out how to play with it. Good luck! George On 06/17/2014 03:43 PM, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: hello, it's been 3 days since i took advice from "aaron b" and migrated to netbsd from openbsd. i won't go overboard and say that i'm an instant fan-boy, but frankly, the system feels the same, yet quite different. for one, the responsiveness while using the operating system is much better than under openbsd (or even freebsd). secondly, the community (mailing list) isn't grumpy. :) i migrated primarily because of the upcoming support for "lua" throughout the operating system, hope it materializes. what else could someone who's not so much into system setup and administration, nor into systems programming do with netbsd? ah yes, i am not much of a 'gui' user, so will be working at the console, primarily, but would be nice to know if there's anyone here using or carrying over 'cwm' from openbsd, it's kinda nice. in closing, thanks for gracious support i have received ever since i started pestering the list with questions of a naive type. warm regards, ~mayuresh
Re: openbsd -> netbsd : same yet feels different ...
On 17 June 2014 16:58, atomicules wrote: > Ah, yes, perhaps I should have qualified that currently I have no need for > audio or anything too modern. I've regressed my computing over the years > from flashy and modern (E.g. Apple's Mail client) to plain and old (Mutt). > Perhaps that's why NetBSD suits me? Now you're being an Apple fanboi... -- Ottavio
Re: openbsd -> netbsd : same yet feels different ...
On 17 June 2014 16:38, atomicules wrote: > Just use it day to day. I don't see that NetBSD has to be reserved to a > system/server role Sure, but this is unfortunately not in Netbsd's hands. Most modern graphical applications depend on/are built on udev/systemd. Let's see what happens with pulseaudio for example. We (all *bsd + slackware and a few other distros) might end up one day with no sound platform. Maybe I'm just being too pessimistic, as usual... -- Ottavio
Re: openbsd -> netbsd : same yet feels different ...
Welcome to user list of one of the finest OSes around! Firstly, I don't find too many namesakes in a niche list like this. So actually when I saw your signature, for a moment thought someone hacked my account! > i won't go overboard and say that i'm an instant fan-boy, but > frankly, the system feels the same, yet quite different. I felt more or less the same when I switched from Linux 3 years back. My reason to switch was constant hassles with upgrades and administration I was facing with the Linux flavor I was using. [I still use Linux on some machines and do not particularly dislike it, though NetBSD became my preferred OS since then.] I tried FreeBSD and NetBSD when I was at the crossroads. NetBSD won in ease of installation and configuration. Despite having no background my installation was up and running in a matter of hour, including the download time, including wifi and all. I also like pkgsrc. I like it much more than ports. I also participated a bit by submitting patches to pkgsrc and contributing some ports in pkgsrc/wip. > in closing, thanks for gracious support i have received ever > since i started pestering the list with questions of a naive type. Share the same feelings about the list. Soon you'll see yourself being in the expert's role helping newer users.. Mayuresh.
Re: openbsd -> netbsd : same yet feels different ...
On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 03:58:29PM +0100, atomicules wrote: > On 17-Jun-2014 16:45:10, Ottavio Caruso wrote: > >On 17 June 2014 16:38, atomicules wrote: > >>Just use it day to day. I don't see that NetBSD has to be reserved to a > >>system/server role > > > >Sure, but this is unfortunately not in Netbsd's hands. Most modern > >graphical applications depend on/are built on udev/systemd. Let's see > >what happens with pulseaudio for example. We (all *bsd + slackware and > >a few other distros) might end up one day with no sound platform. > > Ah, yes, perhaps I should have qualified that currently I have no need for > audio or anything too modern. I've regressed my computing over the years > from flashy and modern (E.g. Apple's Mail client) to plain and old (Mutt). > Perhaps that's why NetBSD suits me? i agree with atomicules, i too have simplified my computing needs. netbsd console feels just good enough for me, hope i can continue with it. ~mayuresh
Re: openbsd -> netbsd : same yet feels different ...
On 17-Jun-2014 16:45:10, Ottavio Caruso wrote: On 17 June 2014 16:38, atomicules wrote: Just use it day to day. I don't see that NetBSD has to be reserved to a system/server role Sure, but this is unfortunately not in Netbsd's hands. Most modern graphical applications depend on/are built on udev/systemd. Let's see what happens with pulseaudio for example. We (all *bsd + slackware and a few other distros) might end up one day with no sound platform. Ah, yes, perhaps I should have qualified that currently I have no need for audio or anything too modern. I've regressed my computing over the years from flashy and modern (E.g. Apple's Mail client) to plain and old (Mutt). Perhaps that's why NetBSD suits me?
Re: openbsd -> netbsd : same yet feels different ...
Hi Mayuresh, On 17-Jun-2014 13:43:05, Mayuresh Kathe wrote: secondly, the community (mailing list) isn't grumpy. :) Yay for non-grumpiness! i migrated primarily because of the upcoming support for "lua" throughout the operating system, hope it materializes. From searching the mailing list and blogs, etc I think opinion is quite divided, but personally I like Lua so I think it's a good idea. what else could someone who's not so much into system setup and administration, nor into systems programming do with netbsd? Just use it day to day. I don't see that NetBSD has to be reserved to a system/server role. I mean, I do use it to host my website and as my email server, but I also use the exact same server as my remote "desktop" (Tmux) to write this email, write code, write blog posts, browse the web, use Twitter, etc. ah yes, i am not much of a 'gui' user, so will be working at the console, primarily, but would be nice to know if there's anyone here using or carrying over 'cwm' from openbsd, it's kinda nice. No, but I do use dwm. That makes NetBSD fine as a desktop OS for me. That way I can use a NetBSD machine to access my main NetBSD machine for double the goodness.
Re: openbsd -> netbsd : same yet feels different ...
=> hello, => => it's been 3 days since i took advice from "aaron b" and migrated => to netbsd from openbsd. => => i won't go overboard and say that i'm an instant fan-boy, but => frankly, the system feels the same, yet quite different. => => for one, the responsiveness while using the operating system is => much better than under openbsd (or even freebsd). => secondly, the community (mailing list) isn't grumpy. :) => => i migrated primarily because of the upcoming support for "lua" => throughout the operating system, hope it materializes. => => what else could someone who's not so much into system setup and => administration, nor into systems programming do with netbsd? => ah yes, i am not much of a 'gui' user, so will be working at the => console, primarily, but would be nice to know if there's anyone => here using or carrying over 'cwm' from openbsd, it's kinda nice. It looks like it is available in pkgsrc under wm/cwm. See https://www.pkgsrc.org/ to get started with pkgsrc. Good luck, and welcome. Gary Duzan => in closing, thanks for gracious support i have received ever => since i started pestering the list with questions of a naive type. => => warm regards, => => ~mayuresh => =>
openbsd -> netbsd : same yet feels different ...
hello, it's been 3 days since i took advice from "aaron b" and migrated to netbsd from openbsd. i won't go overboard and say that i'm an instant fan-boy, but frankly, the system feels the same, yet quite different. for one, the responsiveness while using the operating system is much better than under openbsd (or even freebsd). secondly, the community (mailing list) isn't grumpy. :) i migrated primarily because of the upcoming support for "lua" throughout the operating system, hope it materializes. what else could someone who's not so much into system setup and administration, nor into systems programming do with netbsd? ah yes, i am not much of a 'gui' user, so will be working at the console, primarily, but would be nice to know if there's anyone here using or carrying over 'cwm' from openbsd, it's kinda nice. in closing, thanks for gracious support i have received ever since i started pestering the list with questions of a naive type. warm regards, ~mayuresh
