Re: Long URL annoyance
In article 53286a1e80t...@netsurf-browser.org, Michael Drake t...@netsurf-browser.org wrote: In article 9527682853.zen44...@zen.co.uk, Simon Smith simon_sm...@zen.co.uk wrote: A fix which would mitigate matters is if the proportion of the lower scroll bar (or, even better, the absolute size in pixels) allocated to the horizontal scroll was configurable and/or persistent from window to window. It always has been. Set the position you want, and from the window menu: Display Save as default only for the new link to come up in a new window with the old 50% horizontal-scroll bar width I believe the default is 2/3 of the width to the status bar. Go to about:Choices, hit F4, type toolbar_status_size. I have 66.67%: toolbar_status_size:6667 That's interesting, the default on my NetSurf install is 5000 or 50% and I've never changed it. (Ever). Dave -- Dave Triffid
Re: Long URL annoyance
In article 53288e1557d...@triffid.co.uk, Dave Symes d...@triffid.co.uk wrote: That's interesting, the default on my NetSurf install is 5000 or 50% and I've never changed it. (Ever). It's been 66.67% since 2006 (a year before NetSurf 1.0 was released): http://source.netsurf-browser.org/netsurf.git/commit/riscos/options.h?id=68ac9e41b1f13d98b22af4843f8fd43d0c25594a But if you had installed NetSurf before that, and had a saved Choices file, it would have got set to 50%, and changes to the default wouldn't affect you unless you deleted your choices file. -- Michael Drake (tlsa) http://www.netsurf-browser.org/
Re: BBC News websites
On 27 Feb 2013 Martin Bazley wrote: If you're still using 2.9, you don't need to be told. Simply open WWW.NetSurf.Log in your computer's ScrapDir (note: this only works when NetSurf is *not* running) and it should be right there in the first few lines. Thanks for the information. I hadn't thought of looking there. I normally use a recent development version, currently #942, but that doesn't exhibit the redirect to mobile problem so I used 2.9 to illustrate it. Richard Porter As someone who requires a stable version I am still using 2.9. I worked round the problem by redirecting the BBC link to the mobile desktop page which gave access to standard BBC content. But now in their wisdom the BBC have deleted this so I am back to square one. Considering their clucking over the raspberry pi you would think no large organisation, different hands, no co-ordination! Richard, you could let them know that apparently very large numbers of the little wonders have been sold which might help us on legacy hardware! John
Re: BBC News websites
On 7 Mar 2013 Learning Partners wrote: As someone who requires a stable version I am still using 2.9. I worked round the problem by redirecting the BBC link to the mobile desktop page which gave access to standard BBC content. But now in their wisdom the BBC have deleted this so I am back to square one. Considering their clucking over the raspberry pi you would think no large organisation, different hands, no co-ordination! Richard, you could let them know that apparently very large numbers of the little wonders have been sold which might help us on legacy hardware! Yes, will do. I've just got another reply from the Beeb: Please note that the issue was once again escalated to Future Media and finding that your browser is NetSurf running under RISC OS 6.16 running on a StrongARM powered RiscPC informed that this is old technology and may explain why you are being directed to the mobile version of the website. Unfortunately, this browser is not supported by BBC iPlayer and therefore you are experiencing the problem. I realise this may be disappointing however I hope this helps to clarify the situation. I have already told them that the complaint did not relate to iPlayer which I don't expect to run on RISC OS, though I may have mentioned that it produces totally misleading error messages if you try. Richard -- Richard Porterhttp://www.minijem.plus.com/ mailto:r...@minijem.plus.com I don't want a user experience - I just want stuff that works.
Re: BBC News websites
Richard Porter r...@minijem.plus.com wrote: Considering their clucking over the raspberry pi you would think no large organisation, different hands, no co-ordination! Richard, you could let them know that apparently very large numbers of the little wonders have been sold which might help us on legacy hardware! Yes, will do. I've just got another reply from the Beeb: Please note that the issue was once again escalated to Future Media and finding that your browser is NetSurf running under RISC OS 6.16 running on a StrongARM powered RiscPC informed that this is old technology and may explain why you are being directed to the mobile version of the website. Does NetSurf 2.9 under Raspbian (ie the Pi's default OS with - I think - the default/recommended web browser) have the same problem (it should)? Report that and maybe they will take notice rather than hiding under the old technology banner. On the plus side, they didn't call it obsolete technology.
Re: BBC News websites
On Thu, Mar 07, 2013 at 02:03:55PM +, Richard Porter wrote: Please note that the issue was once again escalated to Future Media and finding that your browser is NetSurf running under RISC OS 6.16 running on a StrongARM powered RiscPC informed that this is old technology and may explain why you are being directed to the mobile version of the website. Unfortunately, this browser is not supported by BBC iPlayer and therefore you are experiencing the problem. Is it worth having the Beeb explain to Future Media that the way you tell if you should send the Mobile site is if the U-A string contains 'Mobile'. (Note, I hate this method, but it's the 'accepted' approach) D. -- Daniel Silverstone http://www.netsurf-browser.org/ PGP mail accepted and encouraged.Key Id: 3CCE BABE 206C 3B69
Re: BBC News websites
In article 49380.86.154.45.205.1362660717.squir...@email.orpheusnet.co.uk, Learning Partners lp.bo...@argonet.co.uk wrote: On 27 Feb 2013 Martin Bazley wrote: If you're still using 2.9, you don't need to be told. Simply open WWW.NetSurf.Log in your computer's ScrapDir (note: this only works when NetSurf is *not* running) and it should be right there in the first few lines. Thanks for the information. I hadn't thought of looking there. I normally use a recent development version, currently #942, but that doesn't exhibit the redirect to mobile problem so I used 2.9 to illustrate it. Richard Porter As someone who requires a stable version I am still using 2.9. I worked round the problem by redirecting the BBC link to the mobile desktop page which gave access to standard BBC content. But now in their wisdom the BBC have deleted this so I am back to square one. Considering their clucking over the raspberry pi you would think no large organisation, different hands, no co-ordination! Richard, you could let them know that apparently very large numbers of the little wonders have been sold which might help us on legacy hardware! Just tried using the BBC News link on Netsurf's home page (the out of the box version) NS 2.9. Works fine, taking me automatically to http://m.bbc.co.uk/news , which I assume to be the mobile version. Not pretty but it is usable. I don't think that I made any modifications to those NS links when this was discussed some time ago but maybe I did! If so, that would seem to be the answer. Cheers Alan -- Alan Calder, Milton Keynes, UK.
Re: BBC News websites
In article 5328c00187alan_cal...@o2.co.uk, Alan Calder alan_cal...@o2.co.uk wrote: Works fine, taking me automatically to http://m.bbc.co.uk/news , which I assume to be the mobile version. Not pretty but it is usable. Similarly, and for reasons of functionality, I have been known to use NetSurf with http://m.facebook.com and http://m.twitter.com -- Tim Hill .. www.timil.com
Re: Long URL annoyance
In article out-5137dc2c.md-1.4.17.chris.yo...@unsatisfactorysoftware.co.uk, Chris Young chris.yo...@unsatisfactorysoftware.co.uk wrote: [snipped] A better fix might be for the end of the URL to be given priority (aka right-justify), or some shortening technique where the domain and the end of the URL are shown, but the middle is truncated with ellipsis if it is above a certain length. Or, scroll the URL from one end to the other. And back. But I want to see the whole thing at the pointer. A tooltip which pops up when you hover over a link for more than a couple of moments would cut down on eyestrain. i.e. It would avoid having to flick one's eyes to the very bottom left of the (wide)screen to read the link one is pointing at top right. By all means have a status bar which tells you what a window is doing but using that same 'status' to display something _I_ am doing seems wrong somehow. I'm only hovering over a link: the browser isn't really doing anything very much! MIE9 uses a tooltip type display but still it pops up in the bottom left-hand corner of the window. Why not at the pointer? That's where my eyes are pointing. NetSurf could steal a march. ;-) -- Tim Hill .. www.timil.com
Re: BBC News websites
On Thu, 7 March, 2013 3:56 pm, Tim Hill wrote: In article 5328c00187alan_cal...@o2.co.uk, Alan Calder alan_cal...@o2.co.uk wrote: Works fine, taking me automatically to http://m.bbc.co.uk/news , which I assume to be the mobile version. Not pretty but it is usable. Similarly, and for reasons of functionality, I have been known to use NetSurf with http://m.facebook.com and http://m.twitter.com -- Tim Hill .. www.timil.com The point of the workround was that the dashboard gave access to the standard site. The mobile site is what we are trying to avoid. Without the workround www.bbc.co.uk defaults to m.bbc.co.uk. The revised link m.bbc.co.uk/home/dashboard then allowed access to bbc.co.uk/news. (without the m) This may have been available for ARM based tablet users. Sadly no more unless it has moved its address. I await a stable 3.0 or 3.1 with anticipation and thanks to the development team and testers. John
Re: BBC News websites
On 7 Mar 2013 Alan Calder wrote: Just tried using the BBC News link on Netsurf's home page (the out of the box version) NS 2.9. Works fine, taking me automatically to http://m.bbc.co.uk/news , which I assume to be the mobile version. Not pretty but it is usable. That is precisely the problem. We want the desktop version, not the mobile version. If I want m.bbc.co.uk I can request m.bbc.co.uk. -- Richard Porterhttp://www.minijem.plus.com/ mailto:r...@minijem.plus.com I don't want a user experience - I just want stuff that works.
Re: Long URL annoyance
On 6 Mar, Simon Smith wrote in message 9527682853.zen44...@zen.co.uk: One longstanding UI gripe I have with NetSurf (in fact, I think it's about my only serious remaining gripe) arises whenever a link has an overlong URL. The first part of the URL appears to the left of the bottom scroll bar. But if the URL is obnoxiously long, as often happens, the right part is truncated and AFAICS there is no way to access it. I /really/ hate not knowing where is a link is going to take me, or not being able to tell the filetype of something without starting to download it. A fix which would mitigate matters is if the proportion of the lower scroll bar (or, even better, the absolute size in pixels) allocated to the horizontal scroll was configurable and/or persistent from window to window. I am getting quite tired of shrinking the h-scroll and then following a link, only for the new link to come up in a new window with the old 50% horizontal-scroll bar width! I do wish it would at least follow the size setting of the window it was opened from, particularly as I find it fiddly to select the tiny 'hotspot area' of the h-scroll bar width slider. We could right-justify the status bar text if it overflowed the available space (as RISC OS titlebars do). Alternatively, would cutting a chunk out of the middle of the text be any better (in addition to possible other options)? The front-end doesn't seem to know anything about the status bar content (beyond that it's some text), so it might be pretty stupid. Intelligence such as Send form to http://foo.com/...bar/wibble.php; would probably require some very educated guesswork, I suspect (unless there's a way to negotiate the length of the text with the core?). I appreciate that some URLs are impossibly long, and only a multi-line URL display would ever be able to fully display them, but in the meantime there are several ways you could mitigate the problem. (e.g. a key shortcut that toggles full-length (or at least a longer) URL display, a hovering link display tooltip, using the !Help application to display the link, etc.) Personally I would be happy to have the URL given a whole line of its own, even though that would sacrifice some vertical screen space, because I feel this info is important enough to justify such a usage. And a full line would usually be sufficient space, whereas on my setup half a line often isn't. I see there's actually some tooltip code buried in the local history GUI for the RISC OS front-end (turn them on via the option in Interface). Can a front-end find out from the core that the pointer is hovering over a link, form submission button or similar? -- Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England Wakefield Acorn RISC OS Show Saturday 20 April 2013 http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/ http://www.wakefieldshow.org.uk/
Re: BBC News websites
On 7 Mar 2013 Richard Porter r...@minijem.plus.com wrote: On 7 Mar 2013 Alan Calder wrote: Just tried using the BBC News link on Netsurf's home page (the out of the box version) NS 2.9. Works fine, taking me automatically to http://m.bbc.co.uk/news , which I assume to be the mobile version. Not pretty but it is usable. That is precisely the problem. We want the desktop version, not the mobile version. If I want m.bbc.co.uk I can request m.bbc.co.uk. FWIW the development versions access the proper BBC sites with no problem. I can't remember the last time I had a catastrophic failure with these versions, and the occasional failure to access a site can be useful to the developers, as long as one files a bug report. With best wishes, Peter. -- Peter Young (zfc Ta) and family Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk pnyo...@ormail.co.uk
Re: BBC News websites
In article 5328da581e...@timil.com, Tim Hill t...@timil.com wrote: In article 49255.86.154.45.205.1362675722.squir...@email.orpheusnet.co.uk, Learning Partners lp.bo...@argonet.co.uk wrote: [Snip] Thanks for the summary. This may have been available for ARM based tablet users. Sadly no more unless it has moved its address. At least an ARM based tablet with Android has browsers where you can specify the User Agent (e.g. Android, Desktop, iPhone, iPad, Custom). Desktop being the most useful but Android (mobile) is sometimes useful too (e.g. when tethered). There isn't necessarily one answer to 'which user agent?' on some devices. 'Flexibility' is the key word. 'Configurable' is another. ;-) Well, Risc OS does have other browsers which will get to the BBC main site - sadly they don't then display it very well (to put it mildly). Presumably Netsurf just has to have Browse, Fresco, Oregano 1 2's ability to pretend to be something else and all would be well. I seem to remember some earlier discussion as to why it doesn't but can't seem to find it. Alan -- Alan Calder, Milton Keynes, UK.
Re: Long URL annoyance
The following bytes were arranged on 7 Mar 2013 by Tim Hill : Or, scroll the URL from one end to the other. And back. But I want to see the whole thing at the pointer. A tooltip which pops up when you hover over a link for more than a couple of moments would cut down on eyestrain. i.e. It would avoid having to flick one's eyes to the very bottom left of the (wide)screen to read the link one is pointing at top right. While I too find the long URL thing annoying, I would just like to put in a good word for one particular merit of NetSurf's system of displaying things on the status bar. You don't really appreciate it until you use other browsers, at which point its absence becomes intensely, and continuously, irritating. By not using tooltips as a substitute for the status bar, URL previews and title tags are *instant*. You don't have to wait one second and be careful not to move the mouse, which gets tedious fast when there are a lot of links/titles you want to read. I'd like to see tooltips used in addition to, not replacing, the status bar. The bar has faults, but it also has substantial advantages, which can't easily be combined with a 'fix' for the length problem. For short URLs and titles, it's easily the best system. (PS: Another NetSurf feature which I can't believe no other browser seems to implement is links opened in new windows inheriting the history of the previous window. As a heavy user of 'open in new tab', I keep getting caught out by the back button not functioning when I want it to.) -- __^__ Start off every day with a smile and get it over with. / _ _ \ - W.C. Fields ( ( |_| ) ) \_ _/ === Martin Bazley ==
Re: Long URL annoyance
On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 20:32:36 +, Steve Fryatt wrote: The front-end doesn't seem to know anything about the status bar content (beyond that it's some text), so it might be pretty stupid. Intelligence such as Send form to http://foo.com/...bar/wibble.php; would probably require some very educated guesswork, I suspect (unless there's a way to negotiate the length of the text with the core?). There isn't. We'd need something like the nsfont interface for status bar text for the core to intelligently reduce the size, I guess. I see there's actually some tooltip code buried in the local history GUI for the RISC OS front-end (turn them on via the option in Interface). Can a front-end find out from the core that the pointer is hovering over a link, form submission button or similar? browser_window_get_contextual_content() can do this. ccdata.link_url is probably the main thing to check, that will get the URL at least, although alt text won't be available. It returns data on forms too, although I'm not sure what. Chris
