Re: [newbie] [OT?] Thanks M$ but no thanks.
a Charlie, you are ever the optomist. it is my bet that the only thing not to change is entropy. ET On Friday 01 November 2002 05:06 pm, Charlie wrote: On Friday 01 November 2002 02:26 pm, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: On Fri, 2002-11-01 at 15:09, Charlie wrote: Hi all; This may actually be off topic but I figured someone else might need a chuckle too. http://www.schoolnet.na/pr/msftrelease.html I found it amusing but then I'm a sick puppy. :-) Charlie, You're right. It was funny! I especially liked the part about the MCSE paper tigers. ;) The M$ philanthropy sarcasm was especially amusing..hehehe L8r, LX Lyvim; Any occasion for a spanking (even verbally) of a drone from Microsoft is funny IMHO. :-) On a 'related note': The anti-trust trial drones on apparently. Judge CKK's full detailed decision will be announced 'after markets close today' but it seems whatever she's going to say was leaked anyway. If not why have M$ share prices been rising all day? sigh http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Business/ap20021101_1434.html The talking heads on CNN have also said so in the past ten minutes. She approved most of the agreement between DOJ and MS is what I heard. Even the unsettling states proposed remedies didn't go far enough in my view. Whatever lapdogs Microsoft has bought (read politicians) should grab all they're able while they can; since from watching, and listening, it seems the world isn't going to put up with this crap much longer regardless what the 'powers that be' decide not to do. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT?] Thanks M$ but no thanks.
On Sunday 03 Nov 2002 1:39 pm, you wrote: a Charlie, you are ever the optomist. it is my bet that the only thing not to change is entropy. ET You're such a ray of sunshine :-) Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT?] Thanks M$ but no thanks.
On Sunday 03 November 2002 06:59 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Sunday 03 Nov 2002 1:39 pm, you wrote: a Charlie, you are ever the optomist. it is my bet that the only thing not to change is entropy. ET You're such a ray of sunshine :-) Anne Anne; He is that, isn't he? g Miark and ET; Pessimists may be correct more often but we optimists usually have more fun. :-) All; It's painfully obvious that the only thing that can be expected from this revolting situation is that Microsoft will continue to scratch the backs of their pet elected officials; and that those worthies will in turn join with the spin doctors in trying to make it seem there has been useful progress made in forcing MS to simulate the behavior of a good corporate citizen. Shortly thereafter MS will find a way to leverage their right to innovation (read marketing and creative lawyering) to squeeze more money out of the poor abused consumer for inferior software and technology. Smoke and mirrors deployed, shut up and pay. You know, Microsoft's standard way of doing business? I've always been aware of that. However; I'm also aware that those of us that are called advocates for Open Source still have a chance to win many of the small battles for the mind space that is the consumer market, and that any 'revolution' has to begin somewhere. Cost this week of being an Optimist has been twelve formerly blank CD-Rs, and a few hours of time. The reward to the revolution is the four new acquaintances we all have that we didn't last week. They may eventually be friends. :-) One tiny battle at a time people. It's easy to forget that whatever the decisions in the antitrust trial, people are still disgusted that the system is so rigged that entities such as Microsoft, and the directors of such entities, get treated differently than you or I or any private individual not a 'celebrity' would. When that disgust becomes advocacy for something else; and the corporation in question is punished by the consumer by losing even a portion of what they regard as their market, I consider it to be a good day. :-) Or a good week since I'll be hoping to make 3 new friends next week with three more assisted installs. I don't mind spending the time and disks at all. Later; -- Charlie Edmonton,AB,Canada Registered user 244963 at http://counter.li.org ...Saure really turns out to be an adept at the difficult art of papryomancy, the ability to prophesy through contemplating the way people roll reefers - the shape, the licking pattern, the wrinkles and folds or absence thereof in the paper. You will soon be in love, sez Saure, see, this line here. It's long, isn't it? Does that mean -- Length is usually intensity. Not time. -- Thomas Pynchon, _Gravity's Rainbow_ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT?] Thanks M$ but no thanks.
On Fri, 2002-11-01 at 17:06, Charlie wrote: Lyvim; Any occasion for a spanking (even verbally) of a drone from Microsoft is funny IMHO. :-) On a 'related note': The anti-trust trial drones on apparently. Judge CKK's full detailed decision will be announced 'after markets close today' but it seems whatever she's going to say was leaked anyway. If not why have M$ share prices been rising all day? sigh Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly has perpetrated one of the greatest travesties of justice in history. Associated Press sent this piece out to almost everybody: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,5408601%255E462,00.html The most disgusting part of that article: The decision eliminates the establishment of a technical committee to assess Microsoft's compliance with the agreement. In its place, a corporate compliance committee consisting of Microsoft board members will make sure Microsoft lives up to the deal, the judge said. So in addition to the fact that there will be no real penalties, and that the dissenting states' voices essentially will not be effective after all, what few penalties that actually exist will only be policed by M$ itself! These are the consequences of anti-competitive monopolistic business practices?? It is totally absurd! And a travesty of justice on the entire world. A total of NINE judges have agreed that M$ is a threat to the public interest, and this (Clintonian) judge CKK finally caved and told Microshaft what it wanted to hear. (And I haven't even brought up the nine states' objections.) From 1997 to 2000 this DOJ case was carried out under a Democratic administration; a total of three years under Clinton. More than enough time to resolve this case; no judicial decision should take more than two years. For that matter, no judicial decision should take more than one year; especially one of this importance. Note that the two judges that ruled against Microsoft, Stanley Sporkin in 1995 and Penfield Jackson five years later, were both Ronald Reagan appointees. Note also that Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly was a Clinton appointee to the bench. You can draw your own conclusions. The talking heads on CNN have also said so in the past ten minutes. She approved most of the agreement between DOJ and MS is what I heard. Even the unsettling states proposed remedies didn't go far enough in my view. Whatever lapdogs Microsoft has bought (read politicians) should grab all they're able while they can; since from watching, and listening, it seems the world isn't going to put up with this crap much longer regardless what the 'powers that be' decide not to do. You are certainly on the right track. It is the people themselves who are going to have to act, since Judge CKK has demonstrated she doesn't give a flying crap about the public at large. Which means that more Linux geeks MUST become politically aware and active. Before it's too late!! Otherwise, Microslop and it's democratic lapdogs will legislate Linux and the GPL out of existence. They've demonstrated that they have the power, and recently they've shown their intentions to do just that with their actions. FOR EXAMPLE, read the following: http://wired.com/news/linux/0,1411,55989,00.html A piece from that article: Earlier this week, three members of the House of Representatives, Adam Smith (D- Wash.), Ron Kind (D-Wis.) and Jim Davis (D-Fla.), sent a note to 74 Democrats in Congress attacking Linux's GNU General Public License (GPL) as a threat to America's innovation and security. The Democrats also originated the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) and the (CBDTA) Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act, and have allied with the entertainment industry and RIAA to eliminate peer to peer networks such as Napster. Those are the facts; again, you can draw your own conclusions. US peeps should keep those conclusions in mind when they vote this month. Informed voting at this point is imperitive to the future of Linux. Charlie Edmonton,AB,Canada Registered user 244963 at http://counter.li.org Yow! Are you the self-frying president? Best Regards LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT?] Thanks M$ but no thanks.
On Sunday 03 Nov 2002 6:16 pm, you wrote: On Sunday 03 November 2002 06:59 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Sunday 03 Nov 2002 1:39 pm, you wrote: a Charlie, you are ever the optomist. it is my bet that the only thing not to change is entropy. ET You're such a ray of sunshine :-) Anne Anne; He is that, isn't he? g Miark and ET; Pessimists may be correct more often but we optimists usually have more fun. :-) All; snip I've always been aware of that. However; I'm also aware that those of us that are called advocates for Open Source still have a chance to win many of the small battles for the mind space that is the consumer market, and that any 'revolution' has to begin somewhere. Considering the amount of time I spend trying to sort out the problems with windows computers for friends and family, I've been considering what is really needed for an introduction to Linux. For many people, a clean install plus Open Office and any good web browser would be adequate (sometimes too many choices are counterproductive at first). I would think that there needs to be a web page set up similar to the one Mandrake gave us with their links, but linking to lists of hardware compatibility and documentation. Certainly no app should be on a beginner's machine if it doesn't have documentation available from Help. There is a need for a magazine (or part of one) that trully tackles beginners needs. Currently the series that run in our magazines need geeks to understand them. Something on the level of Computer Active, that introduces new topics slowly, giving the user time to get to grips with a new concept, and introducing choice when they are ready for it. Then of course there is a need for a simple installer, as fool-proof as Install Shield. I think Mandrake are working well towards that, but there is a need for all distros to use the same method (at the user level, whatever the programmers feel is needed under the bonnet). A distro like Mandrake has everything most users will ever need - but they have to be able to find it and install it. The truth is that Linux is scarey if you don't have someone to hold your hand - and you are much more likely to find a windows user to hand-hold than a linux one - so startup must be simpler. A certain level of computer literacy is required to use a list like this, valuable as it is. A salutory lesson, though, whilst on holiday - I met a couple who had bought a Dell computer with WinXP and Office XP installed. They say they have no manuals. I presume they are on a disk somewhere, but they simply don't know how to get them. They got a warning from Norton AV that their signature files were out of date, and thought that it meant they were infected. They had reached the point where they would happily pack it up and send it back, if they could. It seems that Windows can be just as scarey! As for me - my 14 year old grandson wanders in from time to time, and says things like 'Is Linux difficult, then?'. He is intelligent and will get there if I don't push. I'm thinking of putting OO for windows on his machine, on the pretext that it will make it easier for him to communicate with the M$O users as school (all my family were brought up on Lotus SmartSuite, but it is really long in the tooth now). Next step then would be The Gimp, because he is seriously interested in graphic work. By the time he is using them he should be ready to change :-) The front door isn't always the quickest way in Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT?] Thanks M$ but no thanks.
Interesting note, Anne. Thanks. Two comments, both I suppose related to Linux Format magazine.. First, of the linux serial publications (although there are a number of 'Linux for Dummies' type books around), Linux Format is pretty accessible to the new user. Second, this month's issue (November) has a review of a new distro, Homebase, which fits nearly exactly your ideal system. It's a linux distro for newbies, apparently installs seamlessly, and uses a consistent browser interface (Mozilla-based). It's a free download (www.oeone.com). You can also, for $19.95 US/yr, have a subscription service that allows you to backup your files on their servers, store configuration files, and more generally synchronize your machine with your space on the server. You can also access your 'desktop' from anywhere simply by logging in to your server Homebase. Check out the review. I have three boxes at home, all dual boots with Windows and various flavors of linux (Mandrake, RedHat, Gentoo). One box is for the kids who basically spend some time playing games on the internet or doing research for school. They care not a whit about operating systems but just want to sit down and browse around. I believe Homebase will be ideal for them and will try it shortly (soon as I get my firewall box setup properly!). Terry Smith Cape Cod USA On Sun, 2002-11-03 at 14:07, Anne Wilson wrote: On Sunday 03 Nov 2002 6:16 pm, you wrote: On Sunday 03 November 2002 06:59 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Sunday 03 Nov 2002 1:39 pm, you wrote: a Charlie, you are ever the optomist. it is my bet that the only thing not to change is entropy. ET You're such a ray of sunshine :-) Anne Anne; He is that, isn't he? g Miark and ET; Pessimists may be correct more often but we optimists usually have more fun. :-) All; snip I've always been aware of that. However; I'm also aware that those of us that are called advocates for Open Source still have a chance to win many of the small battles for the mind space that is the consumer market, and that any 'revolution' has to begin somewhere. Considering the amount of time I spend trying to sort out the problems with windows computers for friends and family, I've been considering what is really needed for an introduction to Linux. For many people, a clean install plus Open Office and any good web browser would be adequate (sometimes too many choices are counterproductive at first). I would think that there needs to be a web page set up similar to the one Mandrake gave us with their links, but linking to lists of hardware compatibility and documentation. Certainly no app should be on a beginner's machine if it doesn't have documentation available from Help. There is a need for a magazine (or part of one) that trully tackles beginners needs. Currently the series that run in our magazines need geeks to understand them. Something on the level of Computer Active, that introduces new topics slowly, giving the user time to get to grips with a new concept, and introducing choice when they are ready for it. Then of course there is a need for a simple installer, as fool-proof as Install Shield. I think Mandrake are working well towards that, but there is a need for all distros to use the same method (at the user level, whatever the programmers feel is needed under the bonnet). A distro like Mandrake has everything most users will ever need - but they have to be able to find it and install it. The truth is that Linux is scarey if you don't have someone to hold your hand - and you are much more likely to find a windows user to hand-hold than a linux one - so startup must be simpler. A certain level of computer literacy is required to use a list like this, valuable as it is. A salutory lesson, though, whilst on holiday - I met a couple who had bought a Dell computer with WinXP and Office XP installed. They say they have no manuals. I presume they are on a disk somewhere, but they simply don't know how to get them. They got a warning from Norton AV that their signature files were out of date, and thought that it meant they were infected. They had reached the point where they would happily pack it up and send it back, if they could. It seems that Windows can be just as scarey! As for me - my 14 year old grandson wanders in from time to time, and says things like 'Is Linux difficult, then?'. He is intelligent and will get there if I don't push. I'm thinking of putting OO for windows on his machine, on the pretext that it will make it easier for him to communicate with the M$O users as school (all my family were brought up on Lotus SmartSuite, but it is really long in the tooth now). Next step then would be The Gimp, because he is seriously interested in graphic work. By the time he is using them he should be ready to change :-) The front door
Re: [newbie] [OT?] Thanks M$ but no thanks.
On Fri, 2002-11-01 at 15:09, Charlie wrote: Hi all; This may actually be off topic but I figured someone else might need a chuckle too. http://www.schoolnet.na/pr/msftrelease.html I found it amusing but then I'm a sick puppy. :-) Charlie, You're right. It was funny! I especially liked the part about the MCSE paper tigers. ;) The M$ philanthropy sarcasm was especially amusing..hehehe L8r, LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] [OT?] Thanks M$ but no thanks.
This is my take on it too. I'm optomistic that despite the any gov't's failed attempt to break their foot off in Gates' ass, the world at large is smarter and will eventually relegate M$ to just another computer company. Granted, it's perhaps overly optomistic, but I'm that kinda guy :-) Miark On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 15:06:22 -0700 Charlie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Whatever lapdogs Microsoft has bought (read politicians) should grab all they're able while they can; since from watching, and listening, it seems the world isn't going to put up with this crap much longer regardless what the 'powers that be' decide not to do. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
