RE: [newbie] 9.2 rc2 booting problem
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Re: [newbie] 9.2 RC2
Tom Brinkman wrote: On Sunday September 14 2003 01:32 am, Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: Tom Brinkman wrote: Anyway, ya just gotta ask yourself why t'hell you would want, or would need to regularly update everything with force an nodeps in the first place (?) Specially cooker Is anyone reading my posts? Yes, I know --allow-force != --force, if nothin goes wrong, if it works as it's supposed to, if the mirrors aren't borked. You haven't had any updates in the last month or so remove most of KDE, without asking? Remove other files, links, and even directories, without askin? Not one single time. I wouldn't unless I used options that allowed urpmi to go through doing it's thing without asking me what I want it to do when there's a problem. This is exactly why I use the options that I use. I reserve the option of using more drastic measures to get the job done. I don't always, and should not always, use those measures. Let me say it again. When you run the command above it will try to install the packages. If it runs into a dependency it can't resolve it asks me if I want to try to install the offending package without checking for dependencies. I say yes or no depending on what the package is and what the possible effects would be of allowing it to do so. If I say no it exits. If I say yes it then tries to install the packages without checking for dependencies. If it still cannot do it because of a conflict with an already installed package it asks if I want to force the install. I again have the option of saying Y or n. If I say no it exits. If I say yes it installs the package without checking anything. It forces it to install without any regard for breaking dependencies or conflicting with existing packages. So I ask again, why do you believe that usin --allow-force and --allow-nodeps regularly is a good idea? I'm sure you know what you're doin, but IMO, it's dangerous, and could be misconstrued by a lot of newbie cookers as a good thing to do regularly. It's not. It's not even a good thing to do in the few cases it's needed. Better to switch mirrors, get the src.rpm and rebuild it, or wait till the problem is fixed in cooker and/or on the mirrors. I believe since cooker unfroze shortly after 9.1 release, I've needed/used either --allow option all of about twice. And then just waitin a day or so for new updates on the mirrors would've made --allow-* unnecessary. used absentmindedly. You have to think about what you are doing when you add that extra option (-f). I was referring to the rm command. I have. I added it a long time ago when the mirrors were worse than they are now. It only gets the synthesis.hdlist download (a few extra seconds), needed or not. I did it because the hdlist wasn't being updated even tho the one in ../base on the mirror was newer. Due to upgrades in urpmi and perl-URPM, it no longer seems to have any effect and isn't needed. I've been meaning to take it out. But it can't/doesn't hurt anything to leave it in either. urpmi.update -a -f --wget urpmi --wget --no-verify-rpm --auto-select -v It'd be nice if signatures were proper and --no-verify-rpm wasn't still needed too. It'd be nice if the mirrors were more dependable and --wget wasn't needed also. But they're not dangerous options. And I know Mandrake has little or no control over donated mirrors. In a perfect cooker world all that would be needed isurpmi.update -a urpmi --auto-select YMMV, -- Brant Fitzsimmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Linux user #322847 | Linux machine #207465 | http://counter.li.org/ AMD Duron 1.3GHz | Mandrake 9.1 | Kernel 2.4.21-0.16mm-mdk KDE 3.1.3 | Mozilla 1.4 Mail Client Uptime: 12:55:00 up 9 days, 11 min, 1 user, load average: 0.61, 0.34, 0.23 ___ All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. -Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] 9.2 RC2
Tom Brinkman wrote: On Saturday September 13 2003 05:59 pm, Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: H.J.Bathoorn wrote: On Sunday 14 September 2003 00:26, Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: I should clarify that --allow-force and --allow-nodeps does not automatically install without checking dependencies or force an install. Actually it does! check all the aliases to find out where Mdk does all the handholding. Thatway you'll find out why rm -r xxx is a PITA on mdk:o) rm -f xxx solves that BTW or change the aliases. If you don't know how...don't!!! That's another one up for the mandrakians:o) Good luck, HarM I'm aware of the safety net implemented for the rm command, but what does this have to do with what I said? --allow-nodeps whether an alias or a true option passed to urpmi does indeed ask you before it does its business. The same with --allow-force. See man urpmi: --allow-nodeps Allow urpmi to ask user to continue installation using no depen- dencies checking due to error. By default urpmi exit immediately in such case. --allow-force Allow urpmi to ask user to continue installation using no depen- dencies checking or forced installation due to error. By default urpmi exit immediately in such case. Alias or not, these are the actions of those options. Bet your life on it Brant? My money's on HarM ;) Absolutely. I use that command every time I want to upgrade. I may not be a rocket scientist, but I know when I'm asked a question during an upgrade or install. urpmi --allow-force --allow-nodeps --auto-select Will allow packages to be updated, and --ALLOW it without checking for dependencies, and will --ALLOW replacement of files and directories. I know it's supposed to ask, but it doesn't always, _if_ you include force. IE, (from man urpmi) --force Assumes yes on all questions. ~ --allow-force Allow urpmi to ask user to continue installation using no dependencies checking or forced installation due to error. By default urpmi exit immediately in such case. Often as not it Assumes yes on all questions, or just exits doin nothing. The first case can be a disaster, the second case a waste of time and bandwidth. These options should not be used except in rare cases. Nor should they with 'rpm'. --force is good for re-installing already installed rpms of the exact same version/ patch level, to correct links and files. --nodeps is fine after the rpm packager admits a fsck'up in his/her %requires, and/or package and says it's no problemo. YMMV, stick around, you'll see ; alias safety nets have got nothin to do with it. (_Don't_ use the --force, Luke ;) Anyway, ya just gotta ask yourself why t'hell you would want, or would need to regularly update everything with force an nodeps in the first place (?) Specially cooker Better to go gently thru the night Is anyone reading my posts? urpmi -v --auto-select --allow-nodeps --allow-force --no-verify-rpm At what point in the previous line did I include --force? I didn't. There's a very good reason I didn't. Why? Because I don't want it to force an install without asking me first. I though I made this pretty clear. Let me say it again. When you run the command above it will try to install the packages. If it runs into a dependency it can't resolve it asks me if I want to try to install the offending package without checking for dependencies. I say yes or no depending on what the package is and what the possible effects would be of allowing it to do so. If I say no it exits. If I say yes it then tries to install the packages without checking for dependencies. If it still cannot do it because of a conflict with an already installed package it asks if I want to force the install. I again have the option of saying Y or n. If I say no it exits. If I say yes it installs the package without checking anything. It forces it to install without any regard for breaking dependencies or conflicting with existing packages. I'm not crazy. I know when I'm asked a question during an update. I have had to do it twice in the last couple of days when upgrading a cooker box. As to the remark about the safety net rm -i is aliased to rm so that you have to explicitly state that you don't want to be asked for each deletion by using rm -f. It *is* a safety net. It is a workaround for a bad design. The same goes for mv and cp. It forces you to go through extra effort to do something that is quite powerful and can be very destructive when used absentmindedly. You have to think about what you are doing when you add that extra option (-f). Don't ever bet against the house. ;-) -- Brant Fitzsimmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Linux user #322847 | Linux machine #207465 |
Re: [newbie] 9.2 RC2
Tom Brinkman wrote: On Saturday September 13 2003 04:41 pm, Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: HaywireMac wrote: On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:09:59 -0500 Dennis Myers [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: I know cause I just did it using Tom B.s instructions. basically it would be urpmi --update --auto-select? Here's what I use to update. urpmi -v --auto-select --allow-nodeps --allow-force --no-verify-rpm -v to see everything that going on --auto-select to update everything that needs to be updated --allow-nodeps to allow you to install without checking dependencies if needed --allow-force to allow you to force the installation if needed --no-verify-rpm to keep it from complaining about bad gpg signatures That'll do it. With often dire results. The allow --allow-nodeps --allow-force being the BAD offenders. Here's what I've gravitated to. I install several 'trusted' mirrors that I have some current confidence in. It's a movin target, now I'm currently usin uninett, sunsite, club-internet.fr, a PLF source (also club-internet) simultaneously and then update several times a day with tom # cook (that's all I need to type ;) alias cook='urpmi.update -a -f --wget urpmi --wget --no-verify-rpm --auto-select -v' (in /etc/bashrc) I've found --wget much slower than curl, but more reliable. It'll keep on tickin, takes a lickin, when the default curl will fail on unwilling mirrors. --no-verify-rpm gets by bad package signin, still plaguing cooker as they move to a new signature model. NBFD, anyway. The last -v just gives verbose output. The dbl ampersand in the middle just says, 'don't run this next command unless the last one completed successfully'. When I see major updates I run 'upall' an login/out, restartin the X server with Ctrl+AltBspace in between. (alias upall='rpm --rebuilddb updatedb update-menus -n ldconfig') There are a few situations from time to time when --allow-nodeps --allow-force might be called for or needed, but those are usually best avoided by being a cookerer. By that I'll just say again, Y'all shouldn't be runnin cooker unless you subscribe to an read the cooker and CHRM (change log) mailin lists. (I know you do Brant, so I'm surprised you cavalierly use force, nodeps), it's a must before you do updates. Need for force or nodeps will have already been suggested by the developers or other cookerers. when called for in rare instances, an then only for certain rpms. Just as often as not, the better solution is to the d/l the current src.rpm for the package an rebuild it yourself. Please read my email in response to your earlier comments. (I don't know why I post if those posting responses are not going to read my post before commenting.) At no time did I use --force. Why would I use an option to negate the other options I passed to urpmi (--allow-nodeps and --allow-force)? It just doesn't make sense. I don't use them cavalierly. Since, as I have said before, it asks me if I want to use those options I have them at my disposal should I feel the need to use them. I have a gun, whose ownership and use I don't take cavalierly either, but I have it should I be in a situation where I would need to use it. The only time I've ever had problems, cooker being my only installed system for years, is when I disregard this, my own, gathered mostly from others advice. Other than that, it's always been better than the last (what some of y'all call) 'stable' release. Just takes a little more effort. IE, updating with --auto, or a cron job is an equally BAD idea. Case in point, a little more'n a week ago a very bad initscripts rpm update was on the mirrors (shortly before RC2). I woke up, made some coffee, an typed 'cook'. THEN read the cooker an CHRPM lists. Sure enough, as I could'a been forewarned, I'd just updated to an initscripts package that fubar'd many of my /etc/initd* links. In my case it also wiped a bunch of /proc subdirs. I should'a read the lists first ;( A fixed package was available in short order. It soon became apparent that a fresh install of RC1, an update to current cooker would be needed for my situation. The whole deal was only my negligence. Still, it got me off my butt to take a look at the new installer ;) -- Brant Fitzsimmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Linux user #322847 | Linux machine #207465 | http://counter.li.org/ AMD Duron 1.3GHz | Mandrake 9.1 | Kernel 2.4.21-0.16mm-mdk KDE 3.1.3 | Mozilla 1.4 Mail Client Uptime: 02:30:00 up 7 days, 13:46, 1 user, load average: 0.02, 0.08, 0.13 ___ All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. -Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860) Want to buy your Pack
Re: [newbie] 9.2 RC2
Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: Tom Brinkman wrote: On Saturday September 13 2003 04:41 pm, Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: HaywireMac wrote: On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:09:59 -0500 Dennis Myers [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: I know cause I just did it using Tom B.s instructions. basically it would be urpmi --update --auto-select? Here's what I use to update. urpmi -v --auto-select --allow-nodeps --allow-force --no-verify-rpm -v to see everything that going on --auto-select to update everything that needs to be updated --allow-nodeps to allow you to install without checking dependencies if needed --allow-force to allow you to force the installation if needed --no-verify-rpm to keep it from complaining about bad gpg signatures That'll do it. With often dire results. The allow --allow-nodeps --allow-force being the BAD offenders. Here's what I've gravitated to. I install several 'trusted' mirrors that I have some current confidence in. It's a movin target, now I'm currently usin uninett, sunsite, club-internet.fr, a PLF source (also club-internet) simultaneously and then update several times a day with tom # cook (that's all I need to type ;) alias cook='urpmi.update -a -f --wget urpmi --wget --no-verify-rpm --auto-select -v' (in /etc/bashrc) I've found --wget much slower than curl, but more reliable. It'll keep on tickin, takes a lickin, when the default curl will fail on unwilling mirrors. --no-verify-rpm gets by bad package signin, still plaguing cooker as they move to a new signature model. NBFD, anyway. The last -v just gives verbose output. The dbl ampersand in the middle just says, 'don't run this next command unless the last one completed successfully'. When I see major updates I run 'upall' an login/out, restartin the X server with Ctrl+AltBspace in between. (alias upall='rpm --rebuilddb updatedb update-menus -n ldconfig') There are a few situations from time to time when --allow-nodeps --allow-force might be called for or needed, but those are usually best avoided by being a cookerer. By that I'll just say again, Y'all shouldn't be runnin cooker unless you subscribe to an read the cooker and CHRM (change log) mailin lists. (I know you do Brant, so I'm surprised you cavalierly use force, nodeps), it's a must before you do updates. Need for force or nodeps will have already been suggested by the developers or other cookerers. when called for in rare instances, an then only for certain rpms. Just as often as not, the better solution is to the d/l the current src.rpm for the package an rebuild it yourself. Please read my email in response to your earlier comments. (I don't know why I post if those posting responses are not going to read my post before commenting.) T o calarify, I didn't mean that you hadn't read my response to your reponse. I meant...A... nevermind, just see my earlier response. The bed is calling me. At no time did I use --force. Why would I use an option to negate the other options I passed to urpmi (--allow-nodeps and --allow-force)? It just doesn't make sense. I don't use them cavalierly. Since, as I have said before, it asks me if I want to use those options I have them at my disposal should I feel the need to use them. I have a gun, whose ownership and use I don't take cavalierly either, but I have it should I be in a situation where I would need to use it. The only time I've ever had problems, cooker being my only installed system for years, is when I disregard this, my own, gathered mostly from others advice. Other than that, it's always been better than the last (what some of y'all call) 'stable' release. Just takes a little more effort. IE, updating with --auto, or a cron job is an equally BAD idea. Case in point, a little more'n a week ago a very bad initscripts rpm update was on the mirrors (shortly before RC2). I woke up, made some coffee, an typed 'cook'. THEN read the cooker an CHRPM lists. Sure enough, as I could'a been forewarned, I'd just updated to an initscripts package that fubar'd many of my /etc/initd* links. In my case it also wiped a bunch of /proc subdirs. I should'a read the lists first ;( A fixed package was available in short order. It soon became apparent that a fresh install of RC1, an update to current cooker would be needed for my situation. The whole deal was only my negligence. Still, it got me off my butt to take a look at the new installer ;) -- Brant Fitzsimmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Linux user #322847 | Linux machine #207465 | http://counter.li.org/ AMD Duron 1.3GHz | Mandrake 9.1 | Kernel 2.4.21-0.16mm-mdk KDE 3.1.3 | Mozilla 1.4 Mail Client Uptime: 03:05:01 up 7 days, 14:21, 1 user, load average: 0.11, 0.07, 0.08 ___ All truth passes through three stages.
Re: [newbie] 9.2 RC2
On Sun, 2003-09-14 at 09:44, Aron Smith wrote: ever hear of an air conditioner (just for the 'puters of course ;-) Did I mention that I live in Australia? We try very hard to do what's called conserve energy here...as in drying our clothing on a line outside; as in having two different ways to flush a toilet; as in doing what you can to avoid using too much electricity in the winter or the summer... A/C is out of the question - for as much as I'd like some big yank-tank A/C machine hanging out me window blasting cold air directly on top of the computers...that'd be great...but I'll work out a nice forced air cooling method instead and live with smaller electricity bills... stephen kuhn - owner == illawarra computer services a kuhn media australia company http://kma.0catch.com -- * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * We expressly refuse to utilise Microsoft DRM encoded documents -- Between grand theft and a legal fee, there only stands a law degree. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] 9.2 RC2
On Sun, 2003-09-14 at 00:29, Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Sun, 2003-09-14 at 09:44, Aron Smith wrote: ever hear of an air conditioner (just for the 'puters of course ;-) Did I mention that I live in Australia? We try very hard to do what's called conserve energy here...as in drying our clothing on a line outside; as in having two different ways to flush a toilet; as in doing what you can to avoid using too much electricity in the winter or the summer... A/C is out of the question - for as much as I'd like some big yank-tank A/C machine hanging out me window blasting cold air directly on top of the computers...that'd be great...but I'll work out a nice forced air cooling method instead and live with smaller electricity bills... stephen kuhn - owner == illawarra computer services a kuhn media australia company http://kma.0catch.com -- * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * We expressly refuse to utilise Microsoft DRM encoded documents So power is expensive in oz? How much per KWH? -- Between grand theft and a legal fee, there only stands a law degree. __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] 9.2 RC2
On Sunday September 14 2003 01:32 am, Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: Tom Brinkman wrote: Anyway, ya just gotta ask yourself why t'hell you would want, or would need to regularly update everything with force an nodeps in the first place (?) Specially cooker Is anyone reading my posts? Yes, I know --allow-force != --force, if nothin goes wrong, if it works as it's supposed to, if the mirrors aren't borked. You haven't had any updates in the last month or so remove most of KDE, without asking? Remove other files, links, and even directories, without askin? Let me say it again. When you run the command above it will try to install the packages. If it runs into a dependency it can't resolve it asks me if I want to try to install the offending package without checking for dependencies. I say yes or no depending on what the package is and what the possible effects would be of allowing it to do so. If I say no it exits. If I say yes it then tries to install the packages without checking for dependencies. If it still cannot do it because of a conflict with an already installed package it asks if I want to force the install. I again have the option of saying Y or n. If I say no it exits. If I say yes it installs the package without checking anything. It forces it to install without any regard for breaking dependencies or conflicting with existing packages. So I ask again, why do you believe that usin --allow-force and --allow-nodeps regularly is a good idea? I'm sure you know what you're doin, but IMO, it's dangerous, and could be misconstrued by a lot of newbie cookers as a good thing to do regularly. It's not. It's not even a good thing to do in the few cases it's needed. Better to switch mirrors, get the src.rpm and rebuild it, or wait till the problem is fixed in cooker and/or on the mirrors. I believe since cooker unfroze shortly after 9.1 release, I've needed/used either --allow option all of about twice. And then just waitin a day or so for new updates on the mirrors would've made --allow-* unnecessary. used absentmindedly. You have to think about what you are doing when you add that extra option (-f). I have. I added it a long time ago when the mirrors were worse than they are now. It only gets the synthesis.hdlist download (a few extra seconds), needed or not. I did it because the hdlist wasn't being updated even tho the one in ../base on the mirror was newer. Due to upgrades in urpmi and perl-URPM, it no longer seems to have any effect and isn't needed. I've been meaning to take it out. But it can't/doesn't hurt anything to leave it in either. urpmi.update -a -f --wget urpmi --wget --no-verify-rpm --auto-select -v It'd be nice if signatures were proper and --no-verify-rpm wasn't still needed too. It'd be nice if the mirrors were more dependable and --wget wasn't needed also. But they're not dangerous options. And I know Mandrake has little or no control over donated mirrors. In a perfect cooker world all that would be needed isurpmi.update -a urpmi --auto-select YMMV, -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] 9.2 RC2
On Sunday 14 September 2003 08:32, Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: Is anyone reading my posts? urpmi -v --auto-select --allow-nodeps --allow-force --no-verify-rpm Wasn't really my point I was just trying to show how Mandrake ppl/coders try to protect us. The rm/alias example was just that, an example. Urpmi is a program written for and by mandrake and has the same handholding machineries embedded in it. That's all, no big deal! I was trying to put a feather up theirs, not putting you down:o) BTW --allow nodeps is OK, --allow force is asking for troubleunless you like it of course. Good luck, HarM Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] 9.2 RC2
From other threads on here, I get the impression that if I install 9.2 RC2, I can eventually just use urpmi to update it so that it is essentially the full release, no? -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ If we do not change our direction we are likely to end up where we are headed. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] 9.2 RC2
On Saturday 13 September 2003 03:40 pm, HaywireMac wrote: From other threads on here, I get the impression that if I install 9.2 RC2, I can eventually just use urpmi to update it so that it is essentially the full release, no? Yes you can, but from the rc2 release you will update about 150 rpms. I know cause I just did it using Tom B.s instructions. On slow cable it took about 3 hours. On fast cable a lot less. HTH -- Dennis M. linux user #180842 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] 9.2 RC2
On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:09:59 -0500 Dennis Myers [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: I know cause I just did it using Tom B.s instructions. basically it would be urpmi --update --auto-select? -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ Coincidences are spiritual puns. -- G.K. Chesterton Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] 9.2 RC2
On Saturday 13 September 2003 23:21, HaywireMac wrote: basically it would be urpmi --update --auto-select? Oh gawd, when you piss, you want us to hold it too? ;o) Jess pulling yer leg...but hell, take some chances, man! We're always there to say: Told ya so!, if you mess up. Good luck, HarM Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] 9.2 RC2
HaywireMac wrote: On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:09:59 -0500 Dennis Myers [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: I know cause I just did it using Tom B.s instructions. basically it would be urpmi --update --auto-select? Here's what I use to update. urpmi -v --auto-select --allow-nodeps --allow-force --no-verify-rpm -v to see everything that going on --auto-select to update everything that needs to be updated --allow-nodeps to allow you to install without checking dependencies if needed --allow-force to allow you to force the installation if needed --no-verify-rpm to keep it from complaining about bad gpg signatures That'll do it. -- Brant Fitzsimmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Linux user #322847 | Linux machine #207465 | http://counter.li.org/ AMD Duron 1.3GHz | Mandrake 9.1 | Kernel 2.4.21-0.16mm-mdk KDE 3.1.3 | Mozilla 1.4 Mail Client Uptime: 17:35:01 up 7 days, 4:51, 1 user, load average: 0.17, 0.25, 0.19 ___ All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. -Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] 9.2 RC2
On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:41:20 -0400 Brant Fitzsimmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Here's what I use to update. urpmi -v --auto-select --allow-nodeps --allow-force --no-verify-rpm -v to see everything that going on --auto-select to update everything that needs to be updated --allow-nodeps to allow you to install without checking dependencies if needed --allow-force to allow you to force the installation if needed --no-verify-rpm to keep it from complaining about bad gpg signatures Cool! This is a keeper, fer sure, but it looks like I saved my 9.1 install, so no excuse for me to upgrade now :-( I'm sure I'll find an excuse when the final comes out tho! Cheers! -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ No matter where I go, the place is always called here. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] 9.2 RC2
On Sun, 2003-09-14 at 07:52, HaywireMac wrote: Cool! This is a keeper, fer sure, but it looks like I saved my 9.1 install, so no excuse for me to upgrade now :-( I'm sure I'll find an excuse when the final comes out tho! Cheers! Yer jest beeun a slacker. A bludger. LayZee. Fraidy Kat. Chick-IN! Kin hear'um cluckin' all the way down hyah! Bwawk buck buck buck! stephen kuhn - owner == illawarra computer services a kuhn media australia company http://kma.0catch.com -- * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * We expressly refuse to utilise Microsoft DRM encoded documents -- Let's show this prehistoric bitch how we do things downtown! -- The Ghostbusters Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] 9.2 RC2
On Sunday 14 September 2003 00:15, Stephen Kuhn wrote: Yer jest beeun a slacker. A bludger. LayZee. Fraidy Kat. Chick-IN! Kin hear'um cluckin' all the way down hyah! Bwawk buck buck buck! Yay, where you been lately? Some nice long threads over on expert we could've needed your expert help. Getting old or is the wife getting at ya? Good luck, HarM Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] 9.2 RC2
HaywireMac wrote: On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:41:20 -0400 Brant Fitzsimmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Here's what I use to update. urpmi -v --auto-select --allow-nodeps --allow-force --no-verify-rpm -v to see everything that going on --auto-select to update everything that needs to be updated --allow-nodeps to allow you to install without checking dependencies if needed --allow-force to allow you to force the installation if needed --no-verify-rpm to keep it from complaining about bad gpg signatures Cool! This is a keeper, fer sure, but it looks like I saved my 9.1 install, so no excuse for me to upgrade now :-( I'm sure I'll find an excuse when the final comes out tho! Cheers! I should clarify that --allow-force and --allow-nodeps does not automatically install without checking dependencies or force an install. If urpmi runs into a problem with resolving a dependency for any particular package, or group of packages, it will ask you whether or not you would like to try to install them without checking dependencies. If it is still having problems it will ask if you want to force the install of the packages. -- Brant Fitzsimmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Linux user #322847 | Linux machine #207465 | http://counter.li.org/ AMD Duron 1.3GHz | Mandrake 9.1 | Kernel 2.4.21-0.16mm-mdk KDE 3.1.3 | Mozilla 1.4 Mail Client Uptime: 18:20:01 up 7 days, 5:36, 1 user, load average: 0.16, 0.31, 0.33 ___ All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. -Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] 9.2 RC2
On Sunday 14 September 2003 00:26, Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: I should clarify that --allow-force and --allow-nodeps does not automatically install without checking dependencies or force an install. Actually it does! check all the aliases to find out where Mdk does all the handholding. Thatway you'll find out why rm -r xxx is a PITA on mdk:o) rm -f xxx solves that BTW or change the aliases. If you don't know how...don't!!! That's another one up for the mandrakians:o) Good luck, HarM Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] 9.2 RC2
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 00:35:30 +0200 H.J.Bathoorn [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Actually it does! check all the aliases to find out where Mdk does all the handholding. Thatway you'll find out why rm -r xxx is a PITA on mdk:o) rm -f xxx solves that BTW or change the aliases. If you don't know how...don't!!! That's another one up for the mandrakians:o) man yer full of energy today! ;-) -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ The door is the key. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] 9.2 RC2
On Sun, 2003-09-14 at 08:21, H.J.Bathoorn wrote: On Sunday 14 September 2003 00:15, Stephen Kuhn wrote: Yer jest beeun a slacker. A bludger. LayZee. Fraidy Kat. Chick-IN! Kin hear'um cluckin' all the way down hyah! Bwawk buck buck buck! Yay, where you been lately? Some nice long threads over on expert we could've needed your expert help. Getting old or is the wife getting at ya? Good luck, HarM Oy - can't a guy make a living? Aside from that, I've been nominated to take over the position of PR and Marketing for the Illawarra Computer Enthusiats club - which means more advertising for MY biz as well as being an outspoken advocate of GNU/Linux/Open Source - and a few more biz opportunities...c'mon...gotta make more money so I can buy more FANS before the spring and summer hit us mate...(g) stephen kuhn - owner == illawarra computer services a kuhn media australia company http://kma.0catch.com -- * This message was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer * We expressly refuse to utilise Microsoft DRM encoded documents -- Building translators is good clean fun. -- T. Cheatham Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] 9.2 RC2
H.J.Bathoorn wrote: On Sunday 14 September 2003 00:26, Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: I should clarify that --allow-force and --allow-nodeps does not automatically install without checking dependencies or force an install. Actually it does! check all the aliases to find out where Mdk does all the handholding. Thatway you'll find out why rm -r xxx is a PITA on mdk:o) rm -f xxx solves that BTW or change the aliases. If you don't know how...don't!!! That's another one up for the mandrakians:o) Good luck, HarM I'm aware of the safety net implemented for the rm command, but what does this have to do with what I said? --allow-nodeps whether an alias or a true option passed to urpmi does indeed ask you before it does its business. The same with --allow-force. See man urpmi: --allow-nodeps Allow urpmi to ask user to continue installation using no depen- dencies checking due to error. By default urpmi exit immediately in such case. --allow-force Allow urpmi to ask user to continue installation using no depen- dencies checking or forced installation due to error. By default urpmi exit immediately in such case. Alias or not, these are the actions of those options. -- Brant Fitzsimmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Linux user #322847 | Linux machine #207465 | http://counter.li.org/ AMD Duron 1.3GHz | Mandrake 9.1 | Kernel 2.4.21-0.16mm-mdk KDE 3.1.3 | Mozilla 1.4 Mail Client Uptime: 18:50:00 up 7 days, 6:06, 1 user, load average: 0.49, 0.69, 0.49 ___ All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. -Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] 9.2 RC2
On Saturday September 13 2003 04:41 pm, Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: HaywireMac wrote: On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:09:59 -0500 Dennis Myers [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: I know cause I just did it using Tom B.s instructions. basically it would be urpmi --update --auto-select? Here's what I use to update. urpmi -v --auto-select --allow-nodeps --allow-force --no-verify-rpm -v to see everything that going on --auto-select to update everything that needs to be updated --allow-nodeps to allow you to install without checking dependencies if needed --allow-force to allow you to force the installation if needed --no-verify-rpm to keep it from complaining about bad gpg signatures That'll do it. With often dire results. The allow --allow-nodeps --allow-force being the BAD offenders. Here's what I've gravitated to. I install several 'trusted' mirrors that I have some current confidence in. It's a movin target, now I'm currently usin uninett, sunsite, club-internet.fr, a PLF source (also club-internet) simultaneously and then update several times a day with tom # cook (that's all I need to type ;) alias cook='urpmi.update -a -f --wget urpmi --wget --no-verify-rpm --auto-select -v' (in /etc/bashrc) I've found --wget much slower than curl, but more reliable. It'll keep on tickin, takes a lickin, when the default curl will fail on unwilling mirrors. --no-verify-rpm gets by bad package signin, still plaguing cooker as they move to a new signature model. NBFD, anyway. The last -v just gives verbose output. The dbl ampersand in the middle just says, 'don't run this next command unless the last one completed successfully'. When I see major updates I run 'upall' an login/out, restartin the X server with Ctrl+AltBspace in between. (alias upall='rpm --rebuilddb updatedb update-menus -n ldconfig') There are a few situations from time to time when --allow-nodeps --allow-force might be called for or needed, but those are usually best avoided by being a cookerer. By that I'll just say again, Y'all shouldn't be runnin cooker unless you subscribe to an read the cooker and CHRM (change log) mailin lists. (I know you do Brant, so I'm surprised you cavalierly use force, nodeps), it's a must before you do updates. Need for force or nodeps will have already been suggested by the developers or other cookerers. when called for in rare instances, an then only for certain rpms. Just as often as not, the better solution is to the d/l the current src.rpm for the package an rebuild it yourself. The only time I've ever had problems, cooker being my only installed system for years, is when I disregard this, my own, gathered mostly from others advice. Other than that, it's always been better than the last (what some of y'all call) 'stable' release. Just takes a little more effort. IE, updating with --auto, or a cron job is an equally BAD idea. Case in point, a little more'n a week ago a very bad initscripts rpm update was on the mirrors (shortly before RC2). I woke up, made some coffee, an typed 'cook'. THEN read the cooker an CHRPM lists. Sure enough, as I could'a been forewarned, I'd just updated to an initscripts package that fubar'd many of my /etc/initd* links. In my case it also wiped a bunch of /proc subdirs. I should'a read the lists first ;( A fixed package was available in short order. It soon became apparent that a fresh install of RC1, an update to current cooker would be needed for my situation. The whole deal was only my negligence. Still, it got me off my butt to take a look at the new installer ;) -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] 9.2 RC2
On Saturday September 13 2003 05:59 pm, Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: H.J.Bathoorn wrote: On Sunday 14 September 2003 00:26, Brant Fitzsimmons wrote: I should clarify that --allow-force and --allow-nodeps does not automatically install without checking dependencies or force an install. Actually it does! check all the aliases to find out where Mdk does all the handholding. Thatway you'll find out why rm -r xxx is a PITA on mdk:o) rm -f xxx solves that BTW or change the aliases. If you don't know how...don't!!! That's another one up for the mandrakians:o) Good luck, HarM I'm aware of the safety net implemented for the rm command, but what does this have to do with what I said? --allow-nodeps whether an alias or a true option passed to urpmi does indeed ask you before it does its business. The same with --allow-force. See man urpmi: --allow-nodeps Allow urpmi to ask user to continue installation using no depen- dencies checking due to error. By default urpmi exit immediately in such case. --allow-force Allow urpmi to ask user to continue installation using no depen- dencies checking or forced installation due to error. By default urpmi exit immediately in such case. Alias or not, these are the actions of those options. Bet your life on it Brant? My money's on HarM ;) urpmi --allow-force --allow-nodeps --auto-select Will allow packages to be updated, and --ALLOW it without checking for dependencies, and will --ALLOW replacement of files and directories. I know it's supposed to ask, but it doesn't always, _if_ you include force. IE, (from man urpmi) --force Assumes yes on all questions. ~ --allow-force Allow urpmi to ask user to continue installation using no dependencies checking or forced installation due to error. By default urpmi exit immediately in such case. Often as not it Assumes yes on all questions, or just exits doin nothing. The first case can be a disaster, the second case a waste of time and bandwidth. These options should not be used except in rare cases. Nor should they with 'rpm'. --force is good for re-installing already installed rpms of the exact same version/ patch level, to correct links and files. --nodeps is fine after the rpm packager admits a fsck'up in his/her %requires, and/or package and says it's no problemo. YMMV, stick around, you'll see ; alias safety nets have got nothin to do with it. (_Don't_ use the --force, Luke ;) Anyway, ya just gotta ask yourself why t'hell you would want, or would need to regularly update everything with force an nodeps in the first place (?) Specially cooker Better to go gently thru the night -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
