Re: [newbie] Help with memtest and errors. (a little long) now trimmed :)
u're off wrong. ;-) it's not a bug. the kernel can only access approx 860mb directly. anything above that, and the memory needs to be accessed differently for the total amount of memory, using translation tables. this leads to a performance hit as every memory access takes around 3 reads or what it normally does. so probably the only time when this pays off is when data is obtained off the memory rather than from disk (or any other storage media), eg in large databases, web servers, where the data is often intentionally placed in a ram disk and mounted, rather than on physical media. hope this explanation helps. any errors pls correct me. - Original Message - From: Martin L. Johansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 04:54 Subject: Re: [newbie] Help with memtest and errors. (a little long) now trimmed :) On Thursday 23 October 2003 21:54, Ronald J. Hall wrote: On Thursday 23 October 2003 01:42 pm, Tom Brinkman wrote: Does that mean I'm actually better off using less than 1Gig of RAM ? Yes. 99% of users don't even need 512MB I've got 512 of DDR here and AFAIK, I've -never- hit swap...so I'd have to agree...unless you're doing something really intensive like video editing or somesuch. Yeah, but I just understood it, that a bug caused the system to run better with less than 1024.. maybe I'm off wrong. -- Martin L. Johansen Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Help with memtest and errors. (a little long) now trimmed :)
On Friday 24 October 2003 02:36, Tom Brinkman wrote: But (just to clarify things), does it perform better with 512 than 1024 ? Or does a person just not need that much? Not for a desktop. Only servers handling web services and lot'sa lot'sa users, or a sound/video studio. So unless you're Walt Disney or Dream Works, 512MB is overkill. 'Course if you've got more ram, Linux will try an use it all, and maybe still bump into /swap but the memory management scheme in kernels that can address over 860MB of ram, also slow things down. I've heard about 7%, I believe in the few days I've used an enterprise kernel, it's even more than that for normal desktop use. OK. Thanks m8. -- Martin L. Johansen Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Help with memtest and errors. (a little long) now trimmed :)
On Wednesday 22 October 2003 07:41 pm, Terence J. Golightly wrote: You'll need to do the same, or add mem=860Mto your lilo append line for the kernel you're usin. Then I'm using only 860M of ram and not all 1024, right? Yes, but the performance will be better than using all 1024MB's. The memory management needed to address 1GB or more of ram imposes a performance hit. -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Help with memtest and errors. (a little long) now trimmed :)
On Thursday 23 October 2003 15:45, Tom Brinkman wrote: Then I'm using only 860M of ram and not all 1024, right? Yes, but the performance will be better than using all 1024MB's. The memory management needed to address 1GB or more of ram imposes a performance hit. Does that mean I'm actually better off using less than 1Gig of RAM ? -- Martin L. Johansen Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Help with memtest and errors. (a little long) now trimmed :)
On Thursday 23 October 2003 11:40 am, Martin L. Johansen wrote: On Thursday 23 October 2003 15:45, Tom Brinkman wrote: Then I'm using only 860M of ram and not all 1024, right? Yes, but the performance will be better than using all 1024MB's. The memory management needed to address 1GB or more of ram imposes a performance hit. Does that mean I'm actually better off using less than 1Gig of RAM ? Yes. 99% of users don't even need 512MB -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Help with memtest and errors. (a little long) now trimmed :)
On Thursday 23 October 2003 19:42, Tom Brinkman wrote: On Thursday 23 October 2003 11:40 am, Martin L. Johansen wrote: On Thursday 23 October 2003 15:45, Tom Brinkman wrote: Then I'm using only 860M of ram and not all 1024, right? Yes, but the performance will be better than using all 1024MB's. The memory management needed to address 1GB or more of ram imposes a performance hit. Does that mean I'm actually better off using less than 1Gig of RAM ? Yes. 99% of users don't even need 512MB But (just to clarify things), does it perform better with 512 than 1024 ? Or does a person just not need that much? -- Martin L. Johansen Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Help with memtest and errors. (a little long) now trimmed :)
On Thursday 23 October 2003 01:42 pm, Tom Brinkman wrote: Does that mean I'm actually better off using less than 1Gig of RAM ? Yes. 99% of users don't even need 512MB I've got 512 of DDR here and AFAIK, I've -never- hit swap...so I'd have to agree...unless you're doing something really intensive like video editing or somesuch. -- /\ DarkLord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Help with memtest and errors. (a little long) now trimmed :)
On Thursday 23 October 2003 21:54, Ronald J. Hall wrote: On Thursday 23 October 2003 01:42 pm, Tom Brinkman wrote: Does that mean I'm actually better off using less than 1Gig of RAM ? Yes. 99% of users don't even need 512MB I've got 512 of DDR here and AFAIK, I've -never- hit swap...so I'd have to agree...unless you're doing something really intensive like video editing or somesuch. Yeah, but I just understood it, that a bug caused the system to run better with less than 1024.. maybe I'm off wrong. -- Martin L. Johansen Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Help with memtest and errors. (a little long) now trimmed :)
On Thu, 2003-10-23 at 09:45, Tom Brinkman wrote: Then I'm using only 860M of ram and not all 1024, right? Yes, but the performance will be better than using all 1024MB's. The memory management needed to address 1GB or more of ram imposes a performance hit. Tom, I added mem=860 to lilo.conf and reran lilo. rebooted the machine and selected linx when the bootloader came and, and, and, the screen went blank. Bummer... I then tried each selection and the same thing happened. I looked at the messages and with my untrained eye didn't notice anything that might give me hint of what linux didn't like. Any suggestions? Terry Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Help with memtest and errors. (a little long) now trimmed :)
On Thursday 23 October 2003 05:16 pm, Terence J. Golightly wrote: On Thu, 2003-10-23 at 09:45, Tom Brinkman wrote: Then I'm using only 860M of ram and not all 1024, right? Yes, but the performance will be better than using all 1024MB's. The memory management needed to address 1GB or more of ram imposes a performance hit. Tom, I added mem=860 to lilo.conf and reran lilo. rebooted the machine and selected linx when the bootloader came and, and, and, the screen went blank. Any suggestions? Yes, addmem=860MThe 'M' on the end specifies MB's. You told the kernel it had only 860 bytes to work in ;) Once I get my cpu and cooler deal straightened out, I'm gonna go back to a regular kernel, and 860 of 1024MB also. MM under a enterprise kernel is even slower than I expected. Not to worry, FedEx is on the way to straighten out my user error. -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Help with memtest and errors. (a little long) now trimmed :)
On Thursday 23 October 2003 12:45 pm, Martin L. Johansen wrote: Does that mean I'm actually better off using less than 1Gig of RAM ? Yes. 99% of users don't even need 512MB But (just to clarify things), does it perform better with 512 than 1024 ? Or does a person just not need that much? Not for a desktop. Only servers handling web services and lot'sa lot'sa users, or a sound/video studio. So unless you're Walt Disney or Dream Works, 512MB is overkill. 'Course if you've got more ram, Linux will try an use it all, and maybe still bump into /swap but the memory management scheme in kernels that can address over 860MB of ram, also slow things down. I've heard about 7%, I believe in the few days I've used an enterprise kernel, it's even more than that for normal desktop use. -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Help with memtest and errors. (a little long) now trimmed :)
On Tuesday 21 October 2003 10:06 pm, Terence J. Golightly wrote: Tom/List, I bought the memory according to a newer post to you sent (I can't find it :( ). Got the Two 512 MB sticks in the mail and stuck them both in (using proper static aviodance procedure) and tested. Barefoot on a tile floor is my method ;) If your not familiar with bios ram timing options, set the ram to auto or bios defaults. Cas 3, precharge 3, banking disabled are the safest (but slowest) settings. Memtest gave me errors in the five figure area. I shutdown and tested each stick individually. One stick is fine and the other gave two errors in test 5. Why would I get 5 figure errors when both sticks are installed and only two when the bad stick in installed. If you want the particulars of the output, I'll post them it you like. OK, I've been havin hardware problems myself (due to overclocking too far. IOW's user error, ME). I narrowed it down to either my ram or the cpu has become weak. Figuring it would be better to try ram first, Crucial delivered a new stick of pc3200 this afternoon to replace my existing Kingston (both 512 MB sticks). I figured if ram wasn't the problem, then at least I'd have twice as much ram ;) But, I took some precautions. First I d/l'd a 1 GB ram capable kernel (2.4.22-18mdk-i686-up-4GB) an installed it. You'll need to do the same, or add mem=860Mto your lilo append line for the kernel you're usin. The 'regular' kernel can't address 1024MB of ram. Next I underclocked my XP 3000+ cpu to less than a 2200+ to try an mitigate it as a factor when I installed the new ram and tested with memtest86. First with just the new stick. It took 3 tries to get the new ram properly seated and the system to even boot. I also had to swap slots in order to find a combo that worked. By now I've determined that it's my cpu that's fragile, not the ram. So I'm usin both sticks now. Memtest86 checks both sticks together with no errors (an an underclocked cpu). BUT, a word about memtest86. There is no such thing as a software ram tester. While memtest86 is runnin, your whole system is being used, particularly cpu/cache/ram and motherboard. In memtest86's configuration tho (press the c key while it's runnin), you can turn cpu cache off. Press c, then 1, then 2, then 0. It could be the cache areas of your cpu generating the errors. So, install both sticks of ram and the kernel I did (or any 'enterprise' kernel) or add mem=860M to lilo. Don't forget to run 'lilo' to make the change effective. Then get ftp://mersenne.org/gimps/mprime2212.tar.gz and unpack it. cd to the directory you unpacked to and run './mprime -m' Then choose 17, the torture test. You should be able to let it run for at least an hour or more. If it doesn't stop on hardware errors, you done a better cpu/cache/ram test than letting memtest86 run for a week. oh btw I didn't notice a selection that would allow me to save output to disk. Is there one? Read the docs, look at all the options when you press c. I believe the error output would be shown in the bottom half of memtest86's screen, and there is an option to also write to file. But since I've never had any errors, I can't verify that. -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Help with memtest and errors. (a little long) now trimmed :)
On Wed, 2003-10-22 at 16:54, Tom Brinkman wrote: snip Barefoot on a tile floor is my method ;) If your not familiar with bios ram timing options, set the ram to auto or bios defaults. Cas 3, precharge 3, banking disabled are the safest (but slowest) settings. Memtest gave me errors in the five figure area. I shutdown and tested each stick individually. One stick is fine and the other gave two errors in test 5. Why would I get 5 figure errors when both sticks are installed and only two when the bad stick in installed. If you want the particulars of the output, I'll post them it you like. OK, I've been havin hardware problems myself (due to overclocking too far. I was overclocking then I reset them the heat was too much. So I moved the box down a floor in my house and place it in a small room. Much cooler here year round. IOW's user error, ME). I narrowed it down to either my ram or the cpu has become weak. Figuring it would be better to try ram first, Crucial delivered a new stick of pc3200 this afternoon to replace my existing Kingston (both 512 MB sticks). What setting should I use for PC2700? The manual states 100mhz for PC1600 and 133mhz for PC2100. I know I can run that higher, is trial and error the way to go here? I can only do this after verifying my ram. I figured if ram wasn't the problem, then at least I'd have twice as much ram ;) Same thinking here! But, I took some precautions. First I d/l'd a 1 GB ram capable kernel (2.4.22-18mdk-i686-up-4GB) an installed it. I'll check on my Mdk cds. Would I be able to urpmi it? You'll need to do the same, or add mem=860Mto your lilo append line for the kernel you're usin. The 'regular' kernel can't address 1024MB of ram. Next I underclocked my XP 3000+ cpu to less than a 2200+ to try an mitigate it as a factor when I installed the new ram and tested with memtest86. First with just the new stick. It took 3 tries to get the new ram properly seated and the system to even boot. I also had to swap slots in order to find a combo that worked. I first put them in slots and 2 and 3. Then behold I read the manual! and put them in the right slots together and the errors appeared again in #5 but in a lower memory range; within the range of the good stick. By now I've determined that it's my cpu that's fragile, not the ram. So I'm usin both sticks now. Memtest86 checks both sticks together with no errors (an an underclocked cpu). BUT, a word about memtest86. There is no such thing as a software ram tester. While memtest86 is runnin, your whole system is being used, particularly cpu/cache/ram and motherboard. In memtest86's configuration tho (press the c key while it's runnin), you can turn cpu cache off. Press c, then 1, then 2, then 0. It could be the cache areas of your cpu generating the errors. So, install both sticks of ram and the kernel I did (or any 'enterprise' kernel) or add mem=860M to lilo. Don't forget to run 'lilo' to make the change effective. Then get ftp://mersenne.org/gimps/mprime2212.tar.gz and unpack it. cd to the directory you unpacked to and run ./mprime -m I already have it. I'll get the kernel setup and give it a try. oh btw I didn't notice a selection that would allow me to save output to disk. Is there one? Read the docs, look at all the options when you press c. I believe the error output would be shown in the bottom half of memtest86's screen, and there is an option to also write to file. But since I've never had any errors, I can't verify that. I'll look again. Terry -- Terence Golightly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mandrake 9.1 - 2.4.21-0.13mdk | Gnome 2.0 | Evolution 1.4.4 | Opera 7.11 Soyo Dragon Plus K7VXA-ZBA2 1024MB in testing AMD Athlon(tm) 1250mhz | nVidia Riva TNT Model 64 | Plextor CD-R PX-W1210A Maxtor 6Y080P0 80GB | Media Electronices CM8738 5 Channel Sound VT6102 Rhine II 10/100 Ethernet | Monitor Sony CPD-A200 --Just a Newbieo- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Help with memtest and errors. (a little long) now trimmed :)
On Wednesday 22 October 2003 05:15 pm, Terence J. Golightly wrote: On Wed, 2003-10-22 at 16:54, Tom Brinkman wrote: snip Barefoot on a tile floor is my method ;) If your not familiar with bios ram timing options, set the ram to auto or bios defaults. Cas 3, precharge 3, banking disabled are the safest (but slowest) settings. Memtest gave me errors in the five figure area. I shutdown and tested each stick individually. One stick is fine and the other gave two errors in test 5. Why would I get 5 figure errors when both sticks are installed and only two when the bad stick in installed. If you want the particulars of the output, I'll post them it you like. OK, I've been havin hardware problems myself (due to overclocking too far. I was overclocking then I reset them the heat was too much. So I moved the box down a floor in my house and place it in a small room. Much cooler here year round. Well, could be your problems, like mine, are from weakening the cpu IOW's user error, ME). I narrowed it down to either my ram or the cpu has become weak. Figuring it would be better to try ram first, Crucial delivered a new stick of pc3200 this afternoon to replace my existing Kingston (both 512 MB sticks). What setting should I use for PC2700? The manual states 100mhz for PC1600 and 133mhz for PC2100. I know I can run that higher, is trial and error the way to go here? I can only do this after verifying my ram. Your system is 133FSB (DDR 266). I figured if ram wasn't the problem, then at least I'd have twice as much ram ;) Same thinking here! But, I took some precautions. First I d/l'd a 1 GB ram capable kernel (2.4.22-18mdk-i686-up-4GB) an installed it. I'll check on my Mdk cds. Would I be able to urpmi it? You don't mention versions. 9.2 should have it. Or install the enterprise kernel from your CD's (any fairly recent version). Mind you tho, kernels capable of addressing more than 860 MB of ram are slower. You could be just as well off usin mem=860M in lilo, and keeping the regular kernel. You'll need to do the same, or add mem=860Mto your lilo append line for the kernel you're usin. The 'regular' kernel can't address 1024MB of ram. Next I underclocked my XP 3000+ cpu to less than a 2200+ to try an mitigate it as a factor when I installed the new ram and tested with memtest86. First with just the new stick. It took 3 tries to get the new ram properly seated and the system to even boot. I also had to swap slots in order to find a combo that worked. I first put them in slots and 2 and 3. Then behold I read the manual! and put them in the right slots together and the errors appeared again in #5 but in a lower memory range; within the range of the good stick. The manuals one thing, trial'n error is another. I use'ta have a Soyo BX/Intel cpu board that ram only worked in slot 23. Usin slot 1 was a no go. Often the order you put the sticks in the slots makes all the difference. Like me Terry, you might'a weakened the cpu by overclocking too much. Usually it's the cache areas that'll get 'migrated'. IOW's the traces get over resistant due to heat, over-voltage, etc. There's no going back. Either underclock, while still over volting, or replace. I'm fixin to replace as soon as I get over myself (and overclocking). It's not like the old days, these new high Ghz wicked fast cpu's just don't have the headroom. After years and years of overclocking, I think I'll just need to settle down ;) -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Help with memtest and errors. (a little long) now trimmed :)
On Wed, 2003-10-22 at 18:36, Tom Brinkman wrote: Snip snip snip But, I took some precautions. First I d/l'd a 1 GB ram capable kernel (2.4.22-18mdk-i686-up-4GB) an installed it. I'll check on my Mdk cds. Would I be able to urpmi it? You don't mention versions. 9.2 should have it. Or install the enterprise kernel from your CD's (any fairly recent version). Mind you tho, kernels capable of addressing more than 860 MB of ram are slower. You could be just as well off usin mem=860M in lilo, and keeping the regular kernel. I'm using 9.1. I installed the enterprise kernel and I had booting problems something about line 1939 not found/wrong in the kernel libraries. You'll need to do the same, or add mem=860Mto your lilo append line for the kernel you're usin. Then I'm using only 860M of ram and not all 1024, right? The 'regular' kernel can't address 1024MB of ram. Next I underclocked my XP 3000+ cpu to less than a 2200+ I quit o'cing some time ago. The damage may have been done though. to try an mitigate it as a factor when I installed the new ram and tested with memtest86. First with just the new stick. It took 3 tries to get the new ram properly seated and the system to even boot. I also had to swap slots in order to find a combo that worked. I didn't have this problem. It like it immediately. snip Like me Terry, you might'a weakened the cpu by overclocking too much. Usually it's the cache areas that'll get 'migrated'. I'll run Memtest again and turn the caching off. IOW's the traces get over resistant due to heat, over-voltage, etc. There's no going back. Either underclock, while still over volting, or replace. I'm fixin to replace as soon as I get over myself (and overclocking). It's not like the old days, these new high Ghz wicked fast cpu's just don't have the headroom. After years and years of overclocking, I think I'll just need to settle down ;) O'cing never really caught on for me. Guess I have to buy that liquid cooled case and then go for it..:) Terry Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Help with memtest and errors. (a little long) now trimmed :)
Tom/List, I bought the memory according to a newer post to you sent (I can't find it :( ). Got the Two 512 MB sticks in the mail and stuck them both in (using proper static aviodance procedure) and tested. Memtest gave me errors in the five figure area. I shutdown and tested each stick individually. One stick is fine and the other gave two errors in test 5. Why would I get 5 figure errors when both sticks are installed and only two when the bad stick in installed. If you want the particulars of the output, I'll post them it you like. Terry oh btw I didn't notice a selection that would allow me to save output to disk. Is there one? On Thu, 2003-10-16 at 10:31, Tom Brinkman wrote: SNIP Boot to memtest86, and as soon as it's running, press the c key for configuration. From memory, I believe you want to then select 6, then 2, then 8. Check the docs, but this should restart the test, log and report bad memory areas. Then you can add those statements to lilo or grub to let the kernel know not to use them. All of this works only if you are running one of the latest Mandrake kernels with the 'badmem' patch. AFAIK, that means, 2.4.22-7mdk or newer. I know for sure the tmb kernels have this patch, eg, 2.4.22-12.tmb.1mdk I'd just replace the ram, and offer the old stuff to somebody I didn't like ;) You can always depend on Crucial for quality ram. http://www.crucial.com/store/listmfgr.asp?cat=RAM Corsair is good too, http://www.corsairmicro.com/ A good measure is to buy better ram than you need. EG, if pc100 is required, buy pc133. Ditto, pc2700 is required, get pc3200. Those are just consumer labels tho. Important ratings are ns (nanosecond) and Cas rating. The lower the better. I recently failed to follow my own advice, and now I'm stuck with some under performing (no bad areas tho) Kingston junk till I get around to replacin it. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
