Re: [newbie] convert all my mp3s to oggs
On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 12:16:38PM +0200, Anarky wrote: too bad you didn't sign this script ... I assume I may share it ... so I added a # made by Todd Slater line to it :) hope it's not a problem. No problem :) Todd Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] convert all my mp3s to oggs
Anne Wilson wrote: On Saturday 01 Nov 2003 9:22 am, Anarky wrote: but most recently I've been working more in Blender, a little Gimp experience, some Photoshop .. learning Softimage XSI ... if I can help in any of those areas (also although I don't do that anymore I might be able to come up with some help for 3d gfx/2d programming, OpenGl, Directx, assembly, C++ ..) Any hints/tips/HOW-Tos on any of these would be useful in the TWiki :-) I wouldn't know what exactly to write ... and as for the programming part I've done it all in windows so I coldn't say anything mandrake speciffic. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] convert all my mp3s to oggs
Todd Slater wrote: On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 12:38:46AM +0200, Anarky wrote: Todd Slater wrote: I think you dind't understand my question very well. I'm quite happy with editing the setings in the file .. what I mean is ... it would be cool if I could specify that quality is 4 for everything but the like folder, for which it's 5. but don't worry about it. Thanks a LOT. you've helped me hugelly. thanks. big satisfaction. Asked Sebastian Trueg (K3b author) and ogg works fine with k3b .. so now I'm all set for the big conversion :) Oh, I understand. This one does that, just set the path for high quality encoding folder. High is 5, regular is 4. If you want to change those values, there are two places for it in the script--the section for mp3s without id3 tags and the section for those with id3 tags. thanks :) I've already started working on it from last night .. copied the script to 5 names for the 5 types of categories, set for each one quality dir .. and then made a mega script calling each of these :) .. so it's been workign hard since last night .. and will be workign for a long time now ;) it feels sooo good to know my computer workign hard :) The conversions are generally quite cool .. only one thing is a problem for me: the output is of the form some number - song - album - band .. isn't there some way I could get rid of the some number part? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] convert all my mp3s to oggs
Todd Slater wrote: On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 12:38:46AM +0200, Anarky wrote: Todd Slater wrote: I think you dind't understand my question very well. I'm quite happy with editing the setings in the file .. what I mean is ... it would be cool if I could specify that quality is 4 for everything but the like folder, for which it's 5. but don't worry about it. Thanks a LOT. you've helped me hugelly. thanks. big satisfaction. Asked Sebastian Trueg (K3b author) and ogg works fine with k3b .. so now I'm all set for the big conversion :) Oh, I understand. This one does that, just set the path for high quality encoding folder. High is 5, regular is 4. If you want to change those values, there are two places for it in the script--the section for mp3s without id3 tags and the section for those with id3 tags. thanks. I really appreciate your effort!! If there is any way I could help you in any way please say so. If you were a windows user I'd be offering you a free version of the screensaver I made with a friend and are still planing to somehow market (okay, don't jump on me for it being a bad idea everybody's entitled to try) : http://www.ixaarii.com/FoE/index.html ... but most recently I've been working more in Blender, a little Gimp experience, some Photoshop .. learning Softimage XSI ... if I can help in any of those areas (also although I don't do that anymore I might be able to come up with some help for 3d gfx/2d programming, OpenGl, Directx, assembly, C++ ..). ... but aobut this version of the script .. now it's more difficult to use because I've got to search (though it was not hard to find) in the code .. the stuff with the start variables was quite cool ... but maybe this isn't the solution, because I discouvered there is also music of the type I don't really appreciate which I'll keep on my hdd ... so that I'll use for a lower quality category (3). many many thanks for your help, Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] convert all my mp3s to oggs
On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 11:14:19AM +0200, Anarky wrote: The conversions are generally quite cool .. only one thing is a problem for me: the output is of the form some number - song - album - band .. isn't there some way I could get rid of the some number part? Of course! Near the end of the script where oggenc is called, look for -n $workingPath/$prettyTrack - %t -%l -%a.ogg and you can change anything you want except $workingPath/. The number is the track number, %t the song, %l album, %a artist. Todd Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] convert all my mp3s to oggs
On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 11:22:58AM +0200, Anarky wrote: ... but aobut this version of the script .. now it's more difficult to use because I've got to search (though it was not hard to find) in the code .. the stuff with the start variables was quite cool ... but maybe this isn't the solution, because I discouvered there is also music of the type I don't really appreciate which I'll keep on my hdd ... so that I'll use for a lower quality category (3). In this case I'd just define paths for the non-default ogg quality directories. So, if 4 if your default, define a high and low directory highquality=/path/to/hq/mp3s lowquality=/path/to/lq/mp3s Then just before it encodes to ogg look for the if...else statements and do if echo $mp3|grep $highquality /dev/null 21 ; then quality=5 elif echo $mp3|grep $lowquality /dev/null 21; then quality=3 else quality=4 fi Todd Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] convert all my mp3s to oggs
On Thursday 30 October 2003 10:06 pm, Todd Slater wrote: yes, but that program only does 1 file at a time .. I'm talking about batch converting everything. I'd be willing maybe to accept the losses :) OK, here you go. As an added bonus, it keeps ID3 tags. Requires mpg123 to convert to wav, mp3info to read id3 tags, and of course oggenc. Todd Hmm, did my earlier e-mail not get thru? mp32ogg does what you want. Just open a shell, go to the directory in question and type this: mp32ogg *.mp3 It will convert and rename the mp3 files to ogg... Of course, Todds' script probably does it better. :-) -- /\ DarkLord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] convert all my mp3s to oggs
Ronald J. Hall wrote: On Thursday 30 October 2003 12:50 pm, Anarky wrote: yes, but that program only does 1 file at a time .. I'm talking about batch converting everything. I'd be willing maybe to accept the losses :) Umm, it does do more than 1 file at a time. Do: mp32ogg *.mp3 and it will do the files in the directory its in, one after the other. yes .. but I'd like to have that happen for all the subdirs of the root dir :( Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] convert all my mp3s to oggs
Todd Slater wrote: On Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 07:50:44PM +0200, Anarky wrote: Todd Slater wrote: Seriously, there could be some limitations depending on your view. 1. You're going lossy to lossy so quality will be degraded 2. You *may* lose ID3 tags 3. Depending on how many mp3's you have, it could take a lng time Google for mp32ogg and see what you come up with. yes, but that program only does 1 file at a time .. I'm talking about batch converting everything. I'd be willing maybe to accept the losses :) OK, here you go. As an added bonus, it keeps ID3 tags. Requires mpg123 to convert to wav, mp3info to read id3 tags, and of course oggenc. Todd #/bin/bash # ommtoc one more mp3 to ogg converter # remember, lossy to lossy = lower quality sound # this names ogg files to format: # track# - title - album - artist.ogg # # requires mpg123 # requires mp3info # # not extensively tested!! # # SET UP VARIABLES # # top level directory to search (search is recursive) searchPath=/home/you/mp3s # # quality for ogg encoding quality=3 # # remove wav file? yes/no rmWav=yes # # remove original mp3? yes/no rmMp3=no # # no more variables! # # find all mp3's find $searchPath -type f -iname '*.mp3' mp3list while read mp3 do workingPath=`dirname $mp3` wavName=`basename $mp3|sed s/\.[mM][pP]3/\.wav/` testID3=`mp3info -p %t $mp3` if [ -z $testID3 ] ; then noID3Name=`basename $mp3|sed s/\.[mM][pP]3/\.ogg/` echo Converting '$mp3' to wav... mpg123 --wav $workingPath/$wavName $mp3 /dev/null 21 echo Encoding $wavName to ogg... oggenc -q $quality -o $workingPath/$noID3Name $workingPath/$wavName /dev/null 21 if [ $rmMp3 = yes ] ; then rm -f $mp3 fi if [ $rmWav = yes ] ; then rm -f $workingPath/$wavName fi else album=`mp3info -p %l $mp3` artist=`mp3info -p %a $mp3` genre=`mp3info -p %g $mp3` title=`mp3info -p %t $mp3` track=`mp3info -p %n $mp3` prettyTrack=`printf %02d $track` year=`mp3info -p %y $mp3` echo Converting '$mp3' to wav... mpg123 --wav $workingPath/$wavName $mp3 /dev/null 21 echo Encoding $wavName to ogg... oggenc -q $quality -a $artist -N $prettyTrack -l $album -t $title -G $genre -d $year -n $workingPath/$prettyTrack - %t - %l - %a.ogg $workingPath/$wavName /dev/null 21 if [ $rmMp3 = yes ] ; then rm -f $mp3 fi if [ $rmWav = yes ] ; then rm -f $workingPath/$wavName fi fi done mp3list rm mp3list echo Done! wow thanks!!! I'm off to trying out to see if this script does the recursion too :) thanks a lot! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] convert all my mp3s to oggs
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Oct 29, 2003 at 09:19:45PM +0200, Anarky wrote: I'd like to influence the to ogg transition of the world by converting all my mp3s to oggs ... .. is there anybody here who's good at scripting that could maybe give me a script that I could run on a folder and it would traverse all it's subfolders and transform them into oggs if they are mp3s ... or otherwise leave them alone? Then I could run this every once in a while .. and assure I'm spreading the ogg format :) I know a script is not a light thing to ask .. so many many pretty pleases with sugar cream straberryes on top ... with hopes anticipated eternal gratitude, greets. I don't know how to do it, but I have heard that mp3 and ogg each accomplish their compression in part by suppressing information that human hearing can detect. But, so I have been told, the suppress different information, and if you suppress *both* sets of separately inaudible data, the combination *is* audible. So if you succeed, give it an ear test before you discard your old mp3's. thanks for the good advice to you and all other friendly people who were interested also in the quality loss!!! thanks! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] convert all my mp3s to oggs
Todd Slater wrote: On Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 07:50:44PM +0200, Anarky wrote: Todd Slater wrote: Seriously, there could be some limitations depending on your view. 1. You're going lossy to lossy so quality will be degraded 2. You *may* lose ID3 tags 3. Depending on how many mp3's you have, it could take a lng time Google for mp32ogg and see what you come up with. yes, but that program only does 1 file at a time .. I'm talking about batch converting everything. I'd be willing maybe to accept the losses :) OK, here you go. As an added bonus, it keeps ID3 tags. Requires mpg123 to convert to wav, mp3info to read id3 tags, and of course oggenc. Todd #/bin/bash # ommtoc one more mp3 to ogg converter # remember, lossy to lossy = lower quality sound # this names ogg files to format: # track# - title - album - artist.ogg # # requires mpg123 # requires mp3info # # not extensively tested!! # # SET UP VARIABLES # # top level directory to search (search is recursive) searchPath=/home/you/mp3s # # quality for ogg encoding quality=3 # # remove wav file? yes/no rmWav=yes # # remove original mp3? yes/no rmMp3=no # # no more variables! # # find all mp3's find $searchPath -type f -iname '*.mp3' mp3list while read mp3 do workingPath=`dirname $mp3` wavName=`basename $mp3|sed s/\.[mM][pP]3/\.wav/` testID3=`mp3info -p %t $mp3` if [ -z $testID3 ] ; then noID3Name=`basename $mp3|sed s/\.[mM][pP]3/\.ogg/` echo Converting '$mp3' to wav... mpg123 --wav $workingPath/$wavName $mp3 /dev/null 21 echo Encoding $wavName to ogg... oggenc -q $quality -o $workingPath/$noID3Name $workingPath/$wavName /dev/null 21 if [ $rmMp3 = yes ] ; then rm -f $mp3 fi if [ $rmWav = yes ] ; then rm -f $workingPath/$wavName fi else album=`mp3info -p %l $mp3` artist=`mp3info -p %a $mp3` genre=`mp3info -p %g $mp3` title=`mp3info -p %t $mp3` track=`mp3info -p %n $mp3` prettyTrack=`printf %02d $track` year=`mp3info -p %y $mp3` echo Converting '$mp3' to wav... mpg123 --wav $workingPath/$wavName $mp3 /dev/null 21 echo Encoding $wavName to ogg... oggenc -q $quality -a $artist -N $prettyTrack -l $album -t $title -G $genre -d $year -n $workingPath/$prettyTrack - %t - %l - %a.ogg $workingPath/$wavName /dev/null 21 if [ $rmMp3 = yes ] ; then rm -f $mp3 fi if [ $rmWav = yes ] ; then rm -f $workingPath/$wavName fi fi done mp3list rm mp3list echo Done! W!! awesome ... I owe you big time! thanks a LOT!!! this is an awesome. It also works recursivelly!!! A big surprise was that on my first mp3 I got 5.6mb to 2.8mb compression ... what other ogg qualities are there besides 3? Maybe 4? Up to what? Anyplace I could find the full technical specs of these qualities? (bitrate stuff) ? Anyway .. now that i see the script is soo cool!!! soo configurable .. and yet so easy to use ... thanks again .. now that I see all this one of these nights and days I think my computer will be working hard ... and the awesome thing is that the script can be stopped at any time without problems :) awesome (I just hope that if I check delete mp3 that's only done until the ogg is done in case I ctrl-c). Thanks a lot!!! I think I'll be promoting the ogg format :) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] convert all my mp3s to oggs
Todd Slater wrote: OK, here you go. As an added bonus, it keeps ID3 tags. Requires mpg123 to convert to wav, mp3info to read id3 tags, and of course oggenc. snip script wow .. I'm trully hugelly excited about your script ... it's awesome ... in order to ease my mind of the quality loss (but still willing to risk a little bit in order to promote a free format) I'd like to convert the stuff I like at quality 5 ... that's as far as I got with the testing .. and that actually produced bigger file sizes for some stuff, increase in bitrate. So .. my question would be: I've got my mp3 dir organized like this (did it yesterday, verry happy about it): don't like but keep k like oncd unchecked but still I'd like to be able to run the script on all the folders together .. with a quality of say 3-4 .. but I'd like to have a quality of 5 for the like folder ... what do you sugest? Different scripts for each folder? Any other possibilities? greets, and many many thanks again!! You've done a really big thing for my life :) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] convert all my mp3s to oggs
On Fri, Oct 31, 2003 at 09:56:44PM +0200, Anarky wrote: Todd Slater wrote: OK, here you go. As an added bonus, it keeps ID3 tags. Requires mpg123 to convert to wav, mp3info to read id3 tags, and of course oggenc. W!! awesome ... I owe you big time! thanks a LOT!!! this is an awesome. It also works recursivelly!!! A big surprise was that on my first mp3 I got 5.6mb to 2.8mb compression ... what other ogg qualities are there besides 3? Maybe 4? Up to what? Up to 10. 4 is about 128kbs mp3, and since ogg is better, 3 while only 112 kbs sounds like a 128 kbs mp3. So, I use 3 since I don't have a large drive and I only have a 256MB card for my Zaurus. I suppose man oggenc will tell more about the quality, maybe check out the vorbis site. One reason it's hard to say is that the bitrate for oggs is variable. Anyplace I could find the full technical specs of these qualities? (bitrate stuff) ? Anyway .. now that i see the script is soo cool!!! soo configurable .. and yet so easy to use ... thanks again .. now that I see all this one of these nights and days I think my computer will be working hard ... and the awesome thing is that the script can be stopped at any time without problems :) awesome (I just hope that if I check delete mp3 that's only done until the ogg is done in case I ctrl-c). Yup, it waits until it's been encoded to wav and ogg before deleting. Just be careful if you leave your mp3's in the same directory after stopping it--when you run the script again it will find them and want to re-encode them. Glad it works for you :) Todd Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] convert all my mp3s to oggs
On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 12:38:46AM +0200, Anarky wrote: Todd Slater wrote: I think you dind't understand my question very well. I'm quite happy with editing the setings in the file .. what I mean is ... it would be cool if I could specify that quality is 4 for everything but the like folder, for which it's 5. but don't worry about it. Thanks a LOT. you've helped me hugelly. thanks. big satisfaction. Asked Sebastian Trueg (K3b author) and ogg works fine with k3b .. so now I'm all set for the big conversion :) Oh, I understand. This one does that, just set the path for high quality encoding folder. High is 5, regular is 4. If you want to change those values, there are two places for it in the script--the section for mp3s without id3 tags and the section for those with id3 tags. Todd ommtoc.sh Description: Bourne shell script Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] convert all my mp3s to oggs
On Thursday 30 October 2003 12:50 pm, Anarky wrote: yes, but that program only does 1 file at a time .. I'm talking about batch converting everything. I'd be willing maybe to accept the losses :) Umm, it does do more than 1 file at a time. Do: mp32ogg *.mp3 and it will do the files in the directory its in, one after the other. HTHs! -- /\ DarkLord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] convert all my mp3s to oggs
On Wed, Oct 29, 2003 at 09:19:45PM +0200, Anarky wrote: I'd like to influence the to ogg transition of the world by converting all my mp3s to oggs ... .. is there anybody here who's good at scripting that could maybe give me a script that I could run on a folder and it would traverse all it's subfolders and transform them into oggs if they are mp3s ... or otherwise leave them alone? Then I could run this every once in a while .. and assure I'm spreading the ogg format :) I know a script is not a light thing to ask .. so many many pretty pleases with sugar cream straberryes on top ... with hopes anticipated eternal gratitude, greets. I don't know how to do it, but I have heard that mp3 and ogg each accomplish their compression in part by suppressing information that human hearing can detect. But, so I have been told, the suppress different information, and if you suppress *both* sets of separately inaudible data, the combination *is* audible. So if you succeed, give it an ear test before you discard your old mp3's. -- hendrik Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] convert all my mp3s to oggs
On Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 07:50:44PM +0200, Anarky wrote: Todd Slater wrote: Seriously, there could be some limitations depending on your view. 1. You're going lossy to lossy so quality will be degraded 2. You *may* lose ID3 tags 3. Depending on how many mp3's you have, it could take a lng time Google for mp32ogg and see what you come up with. yes, but that program only does 1 file at a time .. I'm talking about batch converting everything. I'd be willing maybe to accept the losses :) OK, here you go. As an added bonus, it keeps ID3 tags. Requires mpg123 to convert to wav, mp3info to read id3 tags, and of course oggenc. Todd #/bin/bash # ommtoc one more mp3 to ogg converter # remember, lossy to lossy = lower quality sound # this names ogg files to format: # track# - title - album - artist.ogg # # requires mpg123 # requires mp3info # # not extensively tested!! # # SET UP VARIABLES # # top level directory to search (search is recursive) searchPath=/home/you/mp3s # # quality for ogg encoding quality=3 # # remove wav file? yes/no rmWav=yes # # remove original mp3? yes/no rmMp3=no # # no more variables! # # find all mp3's find $searchPath -type f -iname '*.mp3' mp3list while read mp3 do workingPath=`dirname $mp3` wavName=`basename $mp3|sed s/\.[mM][pP]3/\.wav/` testID3=`mp3info -p %t $mp3` if [ -z $testID3 ] ; then noID3Name=`basename $mp3|sed s/\.[mM][pP]3/\.ogg/` echo Converting '$mp3' to wav... mpg123 --wav $workingPath/$wavName $mp3 /dev/null 21 echo Encoding $wavName to ogg... oggenc -q $quality -o $workingPath/$noID3Name $workingPath/$wavName /dev/null 21 if [ $rmMp3 = yes ] ; then rm -f $mp3 fi if [ $rmWav = yes ] ; then rm -f $workingPath/$wavName fi else album=`mp3info -p %l $mp3` artist=`mp3info -p %a $mp3` genre=`mp3info -p %g $mp3` title=`mp3info -p %t $mp3` track=`mp3info -p %n $mp3` prettyTrack=`printf %02d $track` year=`mp3info -p %y $mp3` echo Converting '$mp3' to wav... mpg123 --wav $workingPath/$wavName $mp3 /dev/null 21 echo Encoding $wavName to ogg... oggenc -q $quality -a $artist -N $prettyTrack -l $album -t $title -G $genre -d $year -n $workingPath/$prettyTrack - %t - %l - %a.ogg $workingPath/$wavName /dev/null 21 if [ $rmMp3 = yes ] ; then rm -f $mp3 fi if [ $rmWav = yes ] ; then rm -f $workingPath/$wavName fi fi done mp3list rm mp3list echo Done! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] convert all my mp3s to oggs
I'd like to influence the to ogg transition of the world by converting all my mp3s to oggs ... .. is there anybody here who's good at scripting that could maybe give me a script that I could run on a folder and it would traverse all it's subfolders and transform them into oggs if they are mp3s ... or otherwise leave them alone? Then I could run this every once in a while .. and assure I'm spreading the ogg format :) I know a script is not a light thing to ask .. so many many pretty pleases with sugar cream straberryes on top ... with hopes anticipated eternal gratitude, greets. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] convert all my mp3s to oggs
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:44:59 -0500 Todd Slater [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Oct 29, 2003 at 09:19:45PM +0200, Anarky wrote: I'd like to influence the to ogg transition of the world by converting all my mp3s to oggs ... .. is there anybody here who's good at scripting that could maybe give me a script that I could run on a folder and it would traverse all it's subfolders and transform them into oggs if they are mp3s ... or otherwise leave them alone? Then I could run this every once in a while .. and assure I'm spreading the ogg format :) I know a script is not a light thing to ask .. so many many pretty pleases with sugar cream straberryes on top ... with hopes anticipated eternal gratitude, greets. I'd do it for some fresh pr0n ;) Seriously, there could be some limitations depending on your view. 1. You're going lossy to lossy so quality will be degraded 2. You *may* lose ID3 tags 3. Depending on how many mp3's you have, it could take a lng time Google for mp32ogg and see what you come up with. Cheers, Todd urpmi mp32ogg -- User #223705 Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] convert all my mp3s to oggs
On Wednesday 29 October 2003 11:19 am, Anarky wrote: I'd like to influence the to ogg transition of the world by converting all my mp3s to oggs ... .. is there anybody here who's good at scripting that could maybe give me a script that I could run on a folder and it would traverse all it's subfolders and transform them into oggs if they are mp3s ... or otherwise leave them alone? Then I could Well, I am in the middle of the other way: oggs to mp3s. Cause oggs can't work with my new car stereo. The deal is that yes, you can use mp32ogg to convert them, but mp3 compression is lossy, and different than ogg compression, so you will have lossy^2 compression. I have done this with spoken word stuff, and its ok, but tunes will probably suffer. The best bet is to rip them all over again, then you will have less of each tune removed, and consequently better sounding audio. As for the script, I am a real scripting newbie, and have not learned to jump around folders yet. Rob -- Linux: For the people, by the people. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
