[newbie] Laptops
I remember seeing some posts lately about laptop choices for Mandrake. Well, I finally found one that works incredibly well. Asus makes a laptop called a D1 or D1000, and promotes it as a desknote PC, but it's actually a laptop which can also be used as a PC replacement. So, yesterday, I finally bit the bullet and bought one. These laptops are designed in such a way that you decide which CPU, Hard Drive, quantity of ram you want, and whether or not you want a battery or not. That might sound like a strange thing to say, but some people might want to use it solely as a PC replacement, in which case they wouldn't need a battery. The other nice thing about the way it's sold is that you can add or upgrade the parts yourself. The D1 is sort of a Do-It-Yourself laptop which means that upgrades are a snap, and if you don't want to spend a lot, this is definitely the way to go. Mandrake 9.2 detected everything, and set them up without so much as a burp! Essentially, everything is on-board. You still have a PCMCIA slot for extra devices ( and the drivers for the slot are installed and ready to go ), but Video, Lan, Modem, USB, CDRW\DVD, USB Wheel mouse ( My choice ) are all running perfectly. I haven't tried setting up the touchpad, but I don't like them anyways. Still, I'll probably give it a shot later today. Power management is working like a charm ( for a change ! ), even though it has never worked properly for me in Windows - not even on conventional PC's ! I ordered my D1 with a P4-2.4 Ghz CPU, 512 Mb DDR Ram, and a 40 Gb drive. Assembly took less than 30 minutes, and the O/S installed without a hitch. By assembling it myself, I even saved another $40.00 ! Not including taxes, this laptop cost me $1400.00 Canadian, and so far it's the best money I've ever spent. Time will tell, but I can't believe how easy it was. Check it out folks. It might be what you're looking for in a laptop. Lanman Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Laptops
On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:03:09 -0500 Lanman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I remember seeing some posts lately about laptop choices for Mandrake. Well, I finally found one that works incredibly well. Asus makes a laptop called a D1 or D1000, and promotes it as a desknote PC, but it's actually a laptop which can also be used as a PC replacement. So, yesterday, I finally bit the bullet and bought one. These laptops are designed in such a way that you decide which CPU, Hard Drive, quantity of ram you want, and whether or not you want a battery or not. That might sound like a strange thing to say, but some people might want to use it solely as a PC replacement, in which case they wouldn't need a battery. The other nice thing about the way it's sold is that you can add or upgrade the parts yourself. The D1 is sort of a Do-It-Yourself laptop which means that upgrades are a snap, and if you don't want to spend a lot, this is definitely the way to go. Mandrake 9.2 detected everything, and set them up without so much as a burp! Essentially, everything is on-board. You still have a PCMCIA slot for extra devices ( and the drivers for the slot are installed and ready to go ), but Video, Lan, Modem, USB, CDRW\DVD, USB Wheel mouse ( My choice ) are all running perfectly. I haven't tried setting up the touchpad, but I don't like them anyways. Still, I'll probably give it a shot later today. Power management is working like a charm ( for a change ! ), even though it has never worked properly for me in Windows - not even on conventional PC's ! I ordered my D1 with a P4-2.4 Ghz CPU, 512 Mb DDR Ram, and a 40 Gb drive. Assembly took less than 30 minutes, and the O/S installed without a hitch. By assembling it myself, I even saved another $40.00 ! Not including taxes, this laptop cost me $1400.00 Canadian, and so far it's the best money I've ever spent. Time will tell, but I can't believe how easy it was. Check it out folks. It might be what you're looking for in a laptop. Lanman Have you tried the touchpad? Mdk picked up my optical wheelmouse and the touchpad both without a complaint. They both work automagically. If the mouse isn't plugged in (on the road again) the touchpad works then too. Lee -- User #223705 Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Laptops
On Sat, 2003-12-13 at 09:16, Lee Wiggers wrote: On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:03:09 -0500 Lanman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I remember seeing some posts lately about laptop choices for Mandrake. Well, I finally found one that works incredibly well. Asus makes a laptop called a D1 or D1000, and promotes it as a desknote PC, but it's actually a laptop which can also be used as a PC replacement. So, yesterday, I finally bit the bullet and bought one. These laptops are designed in such a way that you decide which CPU, Hard Drive, quantity of ram you want, and whether or not you want a battery or not. That might sound like a strange thing to say, but some people might want to use it solely as a PC replacement, in which case they wouldn't need a battery. The other nice thing about the way it's sold is that you can add or upgrade the parts yourself. The D1 is sort of a Do-It-Yourself laptop which means that upgrades are a snap, and if you don't want to spend a lot, this is definitely the way to go. Mandrake 9.2 detected everything, and set them up without so much as a burp! Essentially, everything is on-board. You still have a PCMCIA slot for extra devices ( and the drivers for the slot are installed and ready to go ), but Video, Lan, Modem, USB, CDRW\DVD, USB Wheel mouse ( My choice ) are all running perfectly. I haven't tried setting up the touchpad, but I don't like them anyways. Still, I'll probably give it a shot later today. Power management is working like a charm ( for a change ! ), even though it has never worked properly for me in Windows - not even on conventional PC's ! I ordered my D1 with a P4-2.4 Ghz CPU, 512 Mb DDR Ram, and a 40 Gb drive. Assembly took less than 30 minutes, and the O/S installed without a hitch. By assembling it myself, I even saved another $40.00 ! Not including taxes, this laptop cost me $1400.00 Canadian, and so far it's the best money I've ever spent. Time will tell, but I can't believe how easy it was. Check it out folks. It might be what you're looking for in a laptop. Lanman Have you tried the touchpad? Mdk picked up my optical wheelmouse and the touchpad both without a complaint. They both work automagically. If the mouse isn't plugged in (on the road again) the touchpad works then too. Lee I Just tried it and it didn't work. I'm going to try rebooting and see if it's picked up. Thanks for the tip. Never even thought of it! Lanman Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Laptops
Lanman wrote: On Sat, 2003-12-13 at 09:16, Lee Wiggers wrote: On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:03:09 -0500 Lanman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I remember seeing some posts lately about laptop choices for Mandrake. Well, I finally found one that works incredibly well. Asus makes a laptop called a D1 or D1000, and promotes it as a desknote PC, but it's actually a laptop which can also be used as a PC replacement. So, yesterday, I finally bit the bullet and bought one. These laptops are designed in such a way that you decide which CPU, Hard Drive, quantity of ram you want, and whether or not you want a battery or not. That might sound like a strange thing to say, but some people might want to use it solely as a PC replacement, in which case they wouldn't need a battery. The other nice thing about the way it's sold is that you can add or upgrade the parts yourself. The D1 is sort of a Do-It-Yourself laptop which means that upgrades are a snap, and if you don't want to spend a lot, this is definitely the way to go. Mandrake 9.2 detected everything, and set them up without so much as a burp! Essentially, everything is on-board. You still have a PCMCIA slot for extra devices ( and the drivers for the slot are installed and ready to go ), but Video, Lan, Modem, USB, CDRW\DVD, USB Wheel mouse ( My choice ) are all running perfectly. I haven't tried setting up the touchpad, but I don't like them anyways. Still, I'll probably give it a shot later today. Power management is working like a charm ( for a change ! ), even though it has never worked properly for me in Windows - not even on conventional PC's ! I ordered my D1 with a P4-2.4 Ghz CPU, 512 Mb DDR Ram, and a 40 Gb drive. Assembly took less than 30 minutes, and the O/S installed without a hitch. By assembling it myself, I even saved another $40.00 ! Not including taxes, this laptop cost me $1400.00 Canadian, and so far it's the best money I've ever spent. Time will tell, but I can't believe how easy it was. Check it out folks. It might be what you're looking for in a laptop. Lanman Have you tried the touchpad? Mdk picked up my optical wheelmouse and the touchpad both without a complaint. They both work automagically. If the mouse isn't plugged in (on the road again) the touchpad works then too. Lee I Just tried it and it didn't work. I'm going to try rebooting and see if it's picked up. Thanks for the tip. Never even thought of it! Lanman http://www.linuxdocs.org/HOWTOs/mini/XFree86-Second-Mouse/ -- Alan Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] laptops
Hi all I know the topic of video cards has been breached many times but id like an opinion. Laptops offered today usually offer a ati radeon card or an nvidia geforce II. Which one might be better, I have heard about troubles with both. I plan to be running lm8 and win4lin on it. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] Laptops
Anyone ever install Mandrake on a IBM Thinkpad 760XL laptop? I am thinking of doing this but have yet to see any documentation on it. The docs on laptops is dated and of little help.
Re: [newbie] Laptops
Never done it on a 760, but my ThinkPad 1400 runs great with Mdk 7.2. Dave On Saturday 19 May 2001 08:18, thus spake Jose Mirles: Anyone ever install Mandrake on a IBM Thinkpad 760XL laptop? I am thinking of doing this but have yet to see any documentation on it. The docs on laptops is dated and of little help. -- ...[W]e preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. (1 Cor 1:23-24)
Re: [Re: [newbie] laptops]
"Marcia Waller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Attachment: MIME Type: multipart/alternative - Hello all, Thank you for all of your laptop info and suggestions. I finally purchased a "built for you" Compaq Presario 1700T P600 laptop with 14.1" TFT XGA display, 64 megs of memory, 12 gigs of harddrive, CD rom 56K PCI Modem and 10/100 NIC card. Lilon Batteries and Windows 98 SE. I hope to get it in a week or less. Is there any advice for putting on Linux? Would I better off with Mandrake 7.0 or 7.1? Thank you for your help. Marcia Marcia, Be certain to check the laptop page for advice. I'm concerned about two things in your setup: the PCI modem and Compaq's proprietary bios. Typically (though not 100% of the time) PCI modems are winmodems and not too likely to work w/Linux. And from what I've read, Compaq is know for its proprietary bios that can occasionally be problematic. The laptop page you've been referred to earlier by someone else on our list might be helpful. Good Luck, Mike ~~~ "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy." --Tom Waits ~~~ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/webmail
Re: [Re: [newbie] laptops]
"Greg Stewart" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Marcia! I don't know what font you're trying to use, but it continues to come out in Chinese at this end! Well, that ,and dots, and big and little empty boxes, intermingled with a word or three here and there, maybe an upside down "A", an "L" or possibly a few math symbols, a puppy dog, fire engine, a big hotel kitchen, and a picture of some round guy with a blade of grass between his thumbs like he's gonna try to blow through the gap and make a buzzy reed noise that always breaks the blade of grass and makes a funny b-shlurpy sound instead! Have I gone off course? --Greg Funny thing Greg is I had the same problem with the original message, but when I hit reply to make a comments such as yours, there was the message in quite readable fashion. I thought the error might have been my web based mail program that I use for this list shrug Mike "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -Benjamin Frankilin Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/webmail
Re: [newbie] laptops
I prefer McDonalds. They have a tasty ice cream with milk choclete chunks in it. - Original Message - From: Steve Weltman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 2:43 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] laptops KFC?? I hope that it isn't a bucket of Fried Chicken you're trying to install Mandrake 7.1 into!! I don't think that we have software for that yet. But it might taste better!! Have a good day! (sorry for the odd humor, I saw KFC and went into left field with that!) Steve W. - Original Message - From: "Marcia Waller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2000 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] laptops Dear All, Has anyone heard of Linux on the new Emachine notebook called Eslate or on a KFC notebook? Are these good notebooks? Marcia
Re: [newbie] laptops
I have the Dell Ispirion 7000 and the KDE desktop seems to big as well. The latop has the ATI Mobility card chip in it. Has anyone had success increasing the resolution to 1024x768 and above. Eric Subject: RE: [newbie] laptops Date: Fri, Aug 18, 2000 at 04:26:11PM -0500 Time to reply! Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Try Dell , I have loved the way mine has performed. I have Windows 98 Se and linux 6.0 running both are good working on it. I have only one gripe . That is the sereen is not big enough. That is weird. We have Dell Inspirons here and one of the best features is the 15" screen. Jon
Re: [newbie] laptops
KFC?? I hope that it isn't a bucket of Fried Chicken you're trying to install Mandrake 7.1 into!! I don't think that we have software for that yet. But it might taste better!! Have a good day! (sorry for the odd humor, I saw KFC and went into left field with that!) Steve W. - Original Message - From: "Marcia Waller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2000 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] laptops Dear All, Has anyone heard of Linux on the new Emachine notebook called Eslate or on a KFC notebook? Are these good notebooks? Marcia
Re: [newbie] laptops
Marcia, try to have at least 64 MB of memory, Windows will appreciate it. I saw a post of yours asking about an Emachine laptop; i won't say anything abot that brand, but stay away from CELERON processors; go with an AMD or a good ol' Pentium. I myself use a Toshiba. They are one of 'THE NAMES' to go for as far as laptops-- good support, warranties and no problems with Linux. I've installed Mandrake on numerous laptops, as it's my distro of choice and find that it installs just as well as on the desktop. If you can get a larger hard drive now, you won't have to worry about upgrading soon. You really don't need to use Partition Magic- just install Windows first,then put the Mandrake installation CD in and do a 'Custom' install. When you get to the partitioning of the drive you'll find that the whole drive is one big FAT partition. If you click on it there's an option to resize and it will also show just exactly how much space Windows is taking up. After you resize you can either manually create the partitions or click on 'Auto-allocate' and then 'Done' Hope this helps On Sat, 19 Aug 2000, you wrote: From some of your responses it sounds like there are more than a few good laptops out there for running Linux. Are 6.0 gigs of harddrive and 32 megs of memory enough for running Linux Mandrake and Windows easily? Would I be better off getting at least 64 megs of memory and 10 or more gigs of harddrive? Will Mandrake 7.0 or 7.1 be easier to install and use on a laptop? I am looking for a laptop that installs Mandrake without a problem, detects everything, and everything else works fine, too. I need a dual boot system with Windows, too. Is Partition Magic in 7.1? That worked well for me in 7.0 on my desktop. Thank you for your help. Marcia -- Eunice Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Treasurer/Community Relations Cerritos LUG http://www.cerritoslug.org
Re: [newbie] laptops
From some of your responses it sounds like there are more than a few good laptops out there for running Linux. Are 6.0 gigs of harddrive and 32 megs of memory enough for running Linux Mandrake and Windows easily? Would I be better off getting at least 64 megs of memory and 10 or more gigs of harddrive? Will Mandrake 7.0 or 7.1 be easier to install and use on a laptop? I am looking for a laptop that installs Mandrake without a problem, detects everything, and everything else works fine, too. I need a dual boot system with Windows, too. Is Partition Magic in 7.1? That worked well for me in 7.0 on my desktop. Thank you for your help. Marcia
RE: [newbie] laptops
Hi Marica; I have a tecra 8000 with a 10gig drive and 128MB ram. Half the dive is win98, needed for work, the rest is all Mandrake 7.1 . Mandrake installed fine. Ingo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Marcia Waller Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2000 1:09 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] laptops Dear Ingo, What kind of Toshiba laptop do you have and or like? How many gigs of harddrive and rams of memory does one need for a dual boot system-Linux/Windows? Did the Linux Mandrake install well? Thanks for the info. Marcia
Re: [newbie] laptops
Dear All, Has anyone heard of Linux on the new Emachine notebook called Eslate or on a KFC notebook? Are these good notebooks? Marcia
[newbie] laptops
Dear All, I know there is a place I found awhile ago where you can find out about alot of different laptops and how they work with Linux. I just do not remember where I found that. Anyone know? I am in the market for a laptop and I am looking for a good used one that can run both Windows and Linux. What would be an acceptable amount of memory and gigs of harddrive? Are Fujitsus a good brand? How about Featrons? Thank you for your help. Marcia
RE: [newbie] laptops
Hi Marcia ; This url http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/kharker/linux-laptop/volunteer.html might be a good starting point. As for a specific brand . I have always liked my toshibas. Ingo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Marcia Waller Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 4:14 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [newbie] laptops Dear All, I know there is a place I found awhile ago where you can find out about alot of different laptops and how they work with Linux. I just do not remember where I found that. Anyone know? I am in the market for a laptop and I am looking for a good used one that can run both Windows and Linux. What would be an acceptable amount of memory and gigs of harddrive? Are Fujitsus a good brand? How about Featrons? Thank you for your help. Marcia
Re: [newbie] laptops
Try Dell , I have loved the way mine has performed. I have Windows 98 Se and Linux 6.0 running both are good working on it. I have only one gripe . That is the sereen is not big enough. Ingo Bauer wrote: Hi Marcia ; This url http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/kharker/linux-laptop/volunteer.html might be a good starting point. As for a specific brand . I have always liked my toshibas. Ingo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Marcia Waller Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 4:14 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [newbie] laptops Dear All, I know there is a place I found awhile ago where you can find out about alot of different laptops and how they work with Linux. I just do not remember where I found that. Anyone know? I am in the market for a laptop and I am looking for a good used one that can run both Windows and Linux. What would be an acceptable amount of memory and gigs of harddrive? Are Fujitsus a good brand? How about Featrons? Thank you for your help. Marcia
RE: [newbie] laptops
Title: RE: [newbie] laptops Try Dell , I have loved the way mine has performed. I have Windows 98 Se and linux 6.0 running both are good working on it. I have only one gripe . That is the sereen is not big enough. That is weird. We have Dell Inspirons here and one of the best features is the 15 screen. Jon
Re: [newbie] laptops
On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, you wrote: Dear All, I know there is a place I found awhile ago where you can find out about alot of different laptops and how they work with Linux. I just do not remember where I found that. Anyone know? I am in the market for a laptop and I am looking for a good used one that can run both Windows and Linux. What would be an acceptable amount of memory and gigs of harddrive? Are Fujitsus a good brand? How about Featrons? Thank you for your help. Marcia Marcia, try a Google search on 'linux laptop' and you'll get back more than you want ;) Also look at the 'expert' and 'cooker' mailing list archives. There's always discussions going on of 'this and that' on laptops. -- ~~ Tom Brinkman[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [newbie] laptops
Dear Ingo, What kind of Toshiba laptop do you have and or like? How many gigs of harddrive and rams of memory does one need for a dual boot system-Linux/Windows? Did the Linux Mandrake install well? Thanks for the info. Marcia
Re: [newbie] Laptops
For laptops, this site is very helpful http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/kharker/linux-laptop/ My toshiba 115cs was on the list, I was also able to download the XF86Config file! (toshiba is a little weird about 800x600, actually 800x594 I think) __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: [newbie] laptops
"Chris" == Chris D [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: toshiba tecra 740 cdt [snip] http://www.cck.uni-kl.de/misc/tecra710/ the following is from that site: "This page is designed to help you get Linux up and running on your Toshiba Tecra series notebook (... 740CDT)." -- Mike Fieschko, West Orange, NJ, USA X-Mailer: XEmacs 20.4, VM 6.72 and random-sig.el X-Face header is me! http://www.cs.indiana.edu/picons/ftp/faq.html Kernel 2.2.9-19mdk mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.viconet.com/fieschko/home.htm Sep 9 St Peter Claver or St Gorgonius "Darn it. You know, the Chinese were just about to tell us everything we wanted to know regarding this espionage thing. But since we accidentally bombed their embassy, now they aren't talking to us." [Jon E. Dougherty http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_excomm/19990511_xex_the_mother_a.shtml]
[newbie] laptops
"Chris" == Chris D [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: i am new and planning an install of mandrake on my toshiba laptop, and i was wondering if there is anything to watch out for. What model? http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/kharker/linux-laptop/ is a Linux on laptops page. Just easy does it. -- Mike Fieschko, West Orange, NJ, USA X-Mailer: XEmacs 20.4, VM 6.72 and random-sig.el X-Face header is me! http://www.cs.indiana.edu/picons/ftp/faq.html Kernel 2.2.9-19mdk mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.viconet.com/fieschko/home.htm Sep 8 Nativity of the Blessed Virgin or St Hadrian "The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried." - [G.K. Chesterton, in Chapter 5, What's Wrong With The World, 1910]
Re: [newbie] laptops
toshiba tecra 740 cdt --- Mike Fieschko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: "Chris" == Chris D [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: i am new and planning an install of mandrake on my toshiba laptop, and i was wondering if there is anything to watch out for. What model? http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/kharker/linux-laptop/ is a Linux on laptops page. Just easy does it. -- Mike Fieschko, West Orange, NJ, USA X-Mailer: XEmacs 20.4, VM 6.72 and random-sig.el X-Face header is me! http://www.cs.indiana.edu/picons/ftp/faq.html Kernel 2.2.9-19mdk mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.viconet.com/fieschko/home.htm Sep 8 Nativity of the Blessed Virgin or St Hadrian "The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried." - [G.K. Chesterton, in Chapter 5, What's Wrong With The World, 1910] === Christopher L Delp mobile e mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.u.arizona.edu/~cld Friend of Bill W. If the futures looking dark, We're the ones who have to shout If there's no one in control, were the ones who draw the line Though we live in trying times, we're the ones who have to try __ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Re: [newbie] laptops
On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, Chris D wrote: i am new and planning an install of mandrake on my toshiba laptop, and i was wondering if there is anything to watch out for. Yes, wait for 6.1 which improves PCMCIA support and adds IrDA support. LLaP bero
Re: [newbie] laptops
should i use the beta? will upgradeing be that difficult? --- Bernhard Rosenkraenzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, Chris D wrote: i am new and planning an install of mandrake on my toshiba laptop, and i was wondering if there is anything to watch out for. Yes, wait for 6.1 which improves PCMCIA support and adds IrDA support. LLaP bero === Christopher L Delp mobile e mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.u.arizona.edu/~cld Friend of Bill W. If the futures looking dark, We're the ones who have to shout If there's no one in control, were the ones who draw the line Though we live in trying times, we're the ones who have to try __ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
