Re: [newbie] Civilme petition - PETITION???.
Colin Jenkins wrote: Hello John, Wednesday, July 31, 2002, 12:48:53 PM, you wrote: JR At 11:14 AM 31/07/02, you did spake with authority John Rigby wrote: JR Again, please stop shooting at the messenger - learn to look at things in JR an adult way. Don't be afraid of new/different information. THAT is how we JR all learn. JR Those that do advance, anyway. JR PEACE! JR John Rigby Usually I stay right out of this type of discussion, but I have to agree with you.. I work with windows networking every day and continue to persevere with linux at home. I have just introduced a couple of linux boxes at work, and it is becoming a nightmare to set them up with windows. As much as I want to use linux, the software I HAVE to use only runs on windows (emulators are no answer). I also have scanners, printers and other devices that do not work with md8.2 and I will not be 'upgrading' hardware just to un a different os. Unfortunatly, there are too many fanatics (both windows and linux) who will not accept that an os is a tool, not a way of life. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Yes, those items at the Microsoft trial were lumped together in what is called the application barrier to entry. Microsoft has influenced hardware makers to issue hardware that needs drivers which use the CPU heavily (easy to do in a cost-sensitive market) and then assisted them in preparing the drivers so that they are never released for another platform. And bound them with a contract for secrecy, so the other side cannot easily reverse-engineer the drivers from the behavior of the devices with zero tech info. Printers aren't too hard, and much progress has been made; scanners are more difficult, and USB modems and some video cards are nigh-on impossible. But there is a hidden cost in using such stuff which the survivors in the business world will have considered... Proprietary applications are fast becoming uncrackable because more and more states are passing UCITA which gives software license agreements the force of law(!!!). Once that passes in Washington State, unless Microsoft sees fit to alter its EULA, it will be illegal to write an import program for Word or Excel or Publisher files, and Microsoft is under no obligation to provide an export program. At that point, with your _business_data_ hostage, $ub$cription fee$ become likely and rather unavoidable. Expect a lot of different revenue models to be experimented with, for, if truth be known, Microsoft is losing money as well. Their financials look good because a loophole in the law allows them not to account for a huge obligation to their employees, and as a result their stock prices are a bit puffed. So my layoff is not a harbinger. It is Mandrakesoft doing what is necessaryto survive--the picture actually looks rosy with the current programs ramping up--but those revenue streams are by no means immediate--selling preinstalled computers is great, but revenue becomes significant about 90 to 120 days after the sales begin, for example. The real key players are the developers, not me. Now finally a word about difficulty. Those complaining the loudest seem to be the ones who know Windows best. The systems are different, and it is remarkable that there is enough carryover that sswitching is not a whole lot more painful than it is. I know folks who used the original Word Perfect before it was twice sold, and they still run Windows 3.11 to use it, because it is what they learned. And the only way to get it from them is to pry it from their cold, dead fingers. But try Mandrake preinstalled. SInce we worked with the manufacturer and developed scripts to tune it to the hardware specifically, there are no problems. Of course, there are still scanners and other devices that won't work, but for new acquisitons it is easy to avoid them. But it is OK for businesses to stick with windows for now. If I set up consulting for conversion, I will be charging much much more later when the data has been placed in a hostage situation, because I will have to print it to paper, use a scanner and OCR, and write programs to store it in open, human-readable formats. Like the mechanic holding up the FRAM(tm) oil filter, I can hold up linux and say, Pay me now, or pay me later, your choice. And again, I apologize for the post to the list. I don't think the layoff would have been noticeable, from the perspective of list members. Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Civilme petition - PETITION???.
I'm not on sylpheed, so this slipped through :( On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 12:48:53PM +1000, John Rigby wrote: At 11:14 AM 31/07/02, you did spake with authority John Rigby wrote: Linux is still a ^%$#$%^*^^ of a product to install and setup in a business-workable format. -- John, I am tired of hearing you say this. I have no idea of what problems you have (please don't bother telling me). snip All I can say is: READ *THIS* LIST! The complaints by volume and extent here are ferocious, considering most people here fancy themselves as at least partial geeks - they LIKE playing with things. I can't even understand the questions! :-) nuff said. snip No, the big money in Linux is in finding the RARE, rare person who is a geek and can get it all to go - not in MONTHS but a day. Your obsession with making a buck explains a lot. snip Again, please stop shooting at the messenger - learn to look at things in an adult way. Don't be afraid of new/different information. THAT is how we all learn. Take your own medicine. Those that do advance, anyway. Like you? Want a new money-making scheme? Write a book on how to annoy people. You're an expert. -- Todd Slater Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Civilme petition - PETITION???.
John, I have a question for you, how much would YOU pay a geek? $9.00/hr, perhaps? Of course a geek doesn't need sunshine right? Yes I live in a cave, yes I can setup a Linux distro in a short time, yes I do all my office apps under Linux, yes I ONLY touch a windows box when I HAVE too, yes I also play with FreeBSD, I have also used OS/2 Warp, and Mac OS 7.x, 8.x, 9.x, and OS X, I have also administered Main/Mini frames BEFORE I began working on Micro computers (PC's), and I have worked on Unix boxes such as Solaris, SCO, HP-UX, Unisys, AIX, and a few others. All this and I am NOT a geek. I am a 6'3 200lb bruiser with an attitude, who likes to lurk in the background listening to the REAL geeks talk about problems that they have, and learn how they solve them. If you would listen a little as well, perhaps you would see that it only a few rare people who can not set up a Linux box. Or maybe I am a geek, a non-standard geek. I would consider that the greatest of compliments, to be called a geek, because I obviously can do something that you cannot. Oh btw, I am also a Windows admin, so I DO know both sides of the story, and I prefer Linux/Unix, and I have made it work quite well in a business-workable format. Maybe you should hire me, but I am afraid that I would have to charge an ID10T like you quite a bit more than $9.00/hr, perhaps more than you could afford. :) If my message appears offensive to you, then so be it, I found your message to be far ruder in comments to the intellect on the people on this list, and far more abusive in nature. Speaking of reading lists, you should perhaps read more on the subject of undocumented features from MS Windows, reference BUGS, easter eggs, GPF's, and B.S.O.D. If you've ever had to spend a weekend reloading a server because it had performed a GPF, and lost the ntldr file, then you would know why Linux is a better and often more stable solution for corporate America. Thank you for taking the time to read this, but I still have work to do. Civilme I have enjoyed reading you bits of wisdom, as I have lurked, I wish you luck in your future endeavors. -Original Message- From: John Rigby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 9:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Civilme petition - PETITION???. At 11:14 AM 31/07/02, you did spake with authority John Rigby wrote: Linux is still a ^%$#$%^*^^ of a product to install and setup in a business-workable format. -- John, I am tired of hearing you say this. I have no idea of what problems you have (please don't bother telling me). I have a dual boot machine with Mandrake 8.2 and (sort of) Win 98. Mandrake installed without a wrinkle and has remained stable. Win 98 was a struggle to get video and modem (external) to work. Furthermore when that decorated soldier - Gen Fault - salutes the reboot loses the video driver and it is another fight to get it setup properly. I *KNOW* what that is - not a big problem under windoze any novice help list will show you how :_) Look, frankly who cares what *you* think? This was part of a serious offer to help a young fellow in a difficult circumstance and you whine about something nonsensical ! All I can say is: READ *THIS* LIST! The complaints by volume and extent here are ferocious, considering most people here fancy themselves as at least partial geeks - they LIKE playing with things. I can't even understand the questions! :-) There is no point in continually shooting at the messenger! LINUX *IS* a ^*%$$%^ to set up. READ THIS VERY LIST - and it is only *one* of dozens. Even *you* are still running W98!!! As for not seeing both sides - I even once used an Apple! No, the big money in Linux is in finding the RARE, rare person who is a geek and can get it all to go - not in MONTHS but a day. I have never, ever met one myself, but I live in the sunshine If I could have found one hirable person who could demonstrate that they could get Linux to run in a business situation easily - NOTE: real world business situation - I would have started a Computer business again this year - even here in paradise, there is a lot of easy(?) money to be made. The catch was, the only two competent people I eventually found were already self-employed and making a motza - often by throwing out MS$ systems and setting up hybrids - O.S. Linux and decent (and familiar) programs running under Win4lin or whatsitsname. I have recently installed test runs of Linux distros that DO work, several times, but the problems with useful programs/utilities show it to be long way off everyday user value to do it without expert assistance, yet. Again, people, I am not anti-anything except bigots and fanatics. I think Linux is the only hope of stopping Big Bill's juggernaut. Well, slowing it a little, anyway. :-) But, the current hope
Re: [newbie] Civilme petition - PETITION???.
July 30, 2002 08:48 pm, John Rigby wrote: Major snips I *KNOW* what that is - not a big problem under windoze any novice help list will show you how :_) Look, frankly who cares what *you* think? This was part of a serious offer to help a young fellow in a difficult circumstance and you whine about something nonsensical ! All I can say is: READ *THIS* LIST! The complaints by volume and extent here are ferocious, considering most people here fancy themselves as at least partial geeks - they LIKE playing with things. I can't even understand the questions! :-) There is no point in continually shooting at the messenger! LINUX *IS* a ^*%$$%^ to set up. READ THIS VERY LIST - and it is only *one* of dozens. Even *you* are still running W98!!! As for not seeing both sides - I even once used an Apple! No, the big money in Linux is in finding the RARE, rare person who is a geek and can get it all to go - not in MONTHS but a day. I have never, ever met one myself, but I live in the sunshine If I could have found one hirable person who could demonstrate that they could get Linux to run in a business situation easily - NOTE: real world business situation - I would have started a Computer business again this year - even here in paradise, there is a lot of easy(?) money to be made. The catch was, the only two competent people I eventually found were already self-employed and making a motza - often by throwing out MS$ systems and setting up hybrids - O.S. Linux and decent (and familiar) programs running under Win4lin or whatsitsname. I have recently installed test runs of Linux distros that DO work, several times, but the problems with useful programs/utilities show it to be long way off everyday user value to do it without expert assistance, yet. Again, people, I am not anti-anything except bigots and fanatics. I think Linux is the only hope of stopping Big Bill's juggernaut. Well, slowing it a little, anyway. :-) But, the current hope is certainly not the Mandrake approach. I'm not even sure if anyone else will now be able to catch the Lindows rabbit. Boy! Those people know how to market! Boy! They listened to what the market wants/needs! Did EXACTLY what I've been saying here and elsewhere for years.. Again, please stop shooting at the messenger - learn to look at things in an adult way. Don't be afraid of new/different information. THAT is how we all learn. Those that do advance, anyway. PEACE! John Rigby ~~~ Mr. Rigby; I *KNOW* what that is - not a big problem under windoze any novice help list will show you how :_) If you know what it is, fine. So do I and I don't like it at all. It's called Microsoft Windows. We're all entitled to an opinion but we're all entitled to ignore the statements of a person that seems to require the level of support provided for operating systems by MS. Which is ridiculous when you think about it since the online help button that was provided for WIN ME was a link to the ZDNET Computer Help Forum. Or do you really like point, click, crash, reboot, reinstall and *PAY!*? I don't; I never have and never will. Let's analyze your comments regarding OS Linux and *decent* applications for a moment, shall we? Windows ships with daemons to connect to your ISP through whatever means you use, correct? When a (new) friend purchased a new system a while back he had to call me in order to connect to the local cable company after setting up the machine. I was forced to walk him through the connection through _right clicking and selecting properties_ in the browser to set up the connection and even then Windows didn't seem inclined to use the connection as specified. It almost demanded that he use the OLS set-up included. Why would he pay MSN Networks for a connection that can't be made from here? I went over with an additional 40 GB hard drive, installed MDK 8.2 and he was connected by the time he removed the install media during the end of install restart and spent the next 20 minutes making the desktop *purty* instead of fiddling with a stubborn OS that makes too many assumptions. Score: Windows XP 0, Mandrake 1 Next we get to his ASUS V8200T5 PURE GEFORCE3 TI500 AGP W/64MB DDR MEMORY It should have maybe installed automatically maybe? Something about certified drivers etc. Wrong answer. The drivers weren't installed, it was an unknown device, the display sucked, and the operating system didn't want to find the drivers on the install disk even when this was specifically requested. Windows has determined that the best drivers for the device are already installed. I managed to make it use the correct ones and then updated them, but almost every time he reboots the system he has to go through this agony again. Mandrake configured X during install, set the display the way it was requested to be, and never
Re: [newbie] Civilme petition - PETITION???. now OT-flamen John Rigby
but John do you, or do you not, like Bagpipes? let's get down to brass tacks On Tuesday 30 July 2002 10:48 pm, you wrote: At 11:14 AM 31/07/02, you did spake with authority John Rigby wrote: Linux is still a ^%$#$%^*^^ of a product to install and setup in a business-workable format. -- John, I am tired of hearing you say this. I have no idea of what problems you have (please don't bother telling me). I have a dual boot machine with Mandrake 8.2 and (sort of) Win 98. Mandrake installed without a wrinkle and has remained stable. Win 98 was a struggle to get video and modem (external) to work. Furthermore when that decorated soldier - Gen Fault - salutes the reboot loses the video driver and it is another fight to get it setup properly. I *KNOW* what that is - not a big problem under windoze any novice help list will show you how :_) Look, frankly who cares what *you* think? This was part of a serious offer to help a young fellow in a difficult circumstance and you whine about something nonsensical ! All I can say is: READ *THIS* LIST! The complaints by volume and extent here are ferocious, considering most people here fancy themselves as at least partial geeks - they LIKE playing with things. I can't even understand the questions! :-) There is no point in continually shooting at the messenger! LINUX *IS* a ^*%$$%^ to set up. READ THIS VERY LIST - and it is only *one* of dozens. Even *you* are still running W98!!! As for not seeing both sides - I even once used an Apple! No, the big money in Linux is in finding the RARE, rare person who is a geek and can get it all to go - not in MONTHS but a day. I have never, ever met one myself, but I live in the sunshine If I could have found one hirable person who could demonstrate that they could get Linux to run in a business situation easily - NOTE: real world business situation - I would have started a Computer business again this year - even here in paradise, there is a lot of easy(?) money to be made. The catch was, the only two competent people I eventually found were already self-employed and making a motza - often by throwing out MS$ systems and setting up hybrids - O.S. Linux and decent (and familiar) programs running under Win4lin or whatsitsname. I have recently installed test runs of Linux distros that DO work, several times, but the problems with useful programs/utilities show it to be long way off everyday user value to do it without expert assistance, yet. Again, people, I am not anti-anything except bigots and fanatics. I think Linux is the only hope of stopping Big Bill's juggernaut. Well, slowing it a little, anyway. :-) But, the current hope is certainly not the Mandrake approach. I'm not even sure if anyone else will now be able to catch the Lindows rabbit. Boy! Those people know how to market! Boy! They listened to what the market wants/needs! Did EXACTLY what I've been saying here and elsewhere for years.. Again, please stop shooting at the messenger - learn to look at things in an adult way. Don't be afraid of new/different information. THAT is how we all learn. Those that do advance, anyway. PEACE! John Rigby Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Civilme petition.
I'll sign. -Original Message- From: frankie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [newbie] Civilme petition. anyone fancy starting a Save Civilme petition Seems a big shame that the guy who fronts to the users more then any other Mandrake employee is gettting kicked.. Nuts for mandrake really.. since Civilme and Vincent are the two main reasons these mailing lists are held in such high esteem. And these mailing lists are what got Mandrake where they are now... (the good stuff I mean.) He is the face (figuratively speaking) that most of associate to mandrake.. I don't even know the CEO's name, and I don't really want to since he probably doesn't write code. :-) (and he is probably just a Suit.) Lets face it, with Linux it's the knowledge we value, and for that Civilme is valuable indeed. rgds frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of tek1 Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 10:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fwd: [newbie] Problem with LM 9.0 - DON'T LEAVE US??? you will be truly missed civileme. you have provided the user community with so much help and been pivitol in the acceptance of mandrake as one of the best linux distributions. it's mandrakesoft's loss to let you go, but hopefully they can bring you back quickly, as soon as things improve for them. regardless of what happens, i'm certain that great opportunities await you. again, thank you for all your wonderful assistance. On Monday 29 July 2002 06:09 pm, you wrote: --- civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip My involvement with the fixing process is becoming distant as I struggle to complete a few more testing tools before my lay-off is effective. (two days hence). Civileme -+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Business Computer Projects - Disclaimer -+-+-+-+-+-+-+- This message, and any associated attachment is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify either the sender [EMAIL PROTECTED] or the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not necessarily the views of Business Computer Projects Ltd., unless specifically stated. Whilst every effort has been made to ensure that emails and their attachments are virus free, it is the responsibility of the recipient(s) to verify the integrity of such emails. Business Computer Projects Ltd BCP House 151 Charles Street Stockport Cheshire SK1 3JY Tel: +44 (0)161 355-3000 Fax: +44 (0)161 355-3001 Web: http://www.bcpsoftware.com http://www.bcpsoftware.com/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Civilme petition.
Me Too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Tony S. Sykes Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 10:23 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [newbie] Civilme petition. I'll sign. -Original Message- From: frankie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [newbie] Civilme petition. anyone fancy starting a Save Civilme petition Seems a big shame that the guy who fronts to the users more then any other Mandrake employee is gettting kicked.. Nuts for mandrake really.. since Civilme and Vincent are the two main reasons these mailing lists are held in such high esteem. And these mailing lists are what got Mandrake where they are now... (the good stuff I mean.) He is the face (figuratively speaking) that most of associate to mandrake.. I don't even know the CEO's name, and I don't really want to since he probably doesn't write code. :-) (and he is probably just a Suit.) Lets face it, with Linux it's the knowledge we value, and for that Civilme is valuable indeed. rgds frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of tek1 Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 10:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fwd: [newbie] Problem with LM 9.0 - DON'T LEAVE US??? you will be truly missed civileme. you have provided the user community with so much help and been pivitol in the acceptance of mandrake as one of the best linux distributions. it's mandrakesoft's loss to let you go, but hopefully they can bring you back quickly, as soon as things improve for them. regardless of what happens, i'm certain that great opportunities await you. again, thank you for all your wonderful assistance. On Monday 29 July 2002 06:09 pm, you wrote: --- civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip My involvement with the fixing process is becoming distant as I struggle to complete a few more testing tools before my lay-off is effective. (two days hence). Civileme -+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Business Computer Projects - Disclaimer -+-+-+-+-+-+-+- This message, and any associated attachment is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify either the sender [EMAIL PROTECTED] or the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not necessarily the views of Business Computer Projects Ltd., unless specifically stated. Whilst every effort has been made to ensure that emails and their attachments are virus free, it is the responsibility of the recipient(s) to verify the integrity of such emails. Business Computer Projects Ltd BCP House 151 Charles Street Stockport Cheshire SK1 3JY Tel: +44 (0)161 355-3000 Fax: +44 (0)161 355-3001 Web: http://www.bcpsoftware.com http://www.bcpsoftware.com/ application/ms-tnef Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Civilme petition.
7/30/02 9:57:22 AM, frankie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: anyone fancy starting a Save Civilme petition Seems a big shame that the guy who fronts to the users more then any other Mandrake employee is gettting kicked.. Nuts for mandrake really.. since Civilme and Vincent are the two main reasons these mailing lists are held in such high esteem. And these mailing lists are what got Mandrake where they are now... (the good stuff I mean.) He is the face (figuratively speaking) that most of associate to mandrake.. I don't even know the CEO's name, and I don't really want to since he probably doesn't write code. :-) (and he is probably just a Suit.) Lets face it, with Linux it's the knowledge we value, and for that Civilme is valuable indeed. rgds frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of tek1 Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 10:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fwd: [newbie] Problem with LM 9.0 - DON'T LEAVE US??? you will be truly missed civileme. you have provided the user community with so much help and been pivitol in the acceptance of mandrake as one of the best linux distributions. it's mandrakesoft's loss to let you go, but hopefully they can bring you back quickly, as soon as things improve for them. regardless of what happens, i'm certain that great opportunities await you. again, thank you for all your wonderful assistance. On Monday 29 July 2002 06:09 pm, you wrote: --- civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip My involvement with the fixing process is becoming distant as I struggle to complete a few more testing tools before my lay-off is effective. (two days hence). Civileme Take a look at what we have here, someone who has a lot of skills, deals well with people and seems to have lot of drive!! This is someone that should have his own tech support business. I dont think that I have ever met anyone who was REALLY happy with his or her job working for someone else for more than a few years. Self employment has been a great way for me and a number of folks I know to get out of this rut. I would think that if someone like civilme were to open some sort of Linux tech support business even if only starting by selling his services on ebay in a few months or a year he could really do very well for himself and never have to worry about a layoff again. And what a asset to linux!! Even if people running linux are famous for reading the fine manual and working out problems for themselves some need a answer quick or just do not have the time to find the answer on their own. This could be the perfect time to start such a venture now that Walmart is selling computers with Mandrake Linux allready installed and the general public may start to use mandrake more. Or for that matter look at how many Mandrake linux items are sold on ebay every day. I bet a good percentage of these people have some amount of trouble getting things running right and if they saw tech support services being auctioned off at ebay would jump at it. Just my 2 cents worth and maybe some food for thought Marc Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Civilme petition.
I'll sign it also. On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 08:29 AM, Myers, Dennis R NWO wrote: Me Too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Tony S. Sykes Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 10:23 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [newbie] Civilme petition. I'll sign. -Original Message- From: frankie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [newbie] Civilme petition. anyone fancy starting a Save Civilme petition Seems a big shame that the guy who fronts to the users more then any other Mandrake employee is gettting kicked.. Nuts for mandrake really.. since Civilme and Vincent are the two main reasons these mailing lists are held in such high esteem. And these mailing lists are what got Mandrake where they are now... (the good stuff I mean.) He is the face (figuratively speaking) that most of associate to mandrake.. I don't even know the CEO's name, and I don't really want to since he probably doesn't write code. :-) (and he is probably just a Suit.) Lets face it, with Linux it's the knowledge we value, and for that Civilme is valuable indeed. rgds frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of tek1 Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 10:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fwd: [newbie] Problem with LM 9.0 - DON'T LEAVE US??? you will be truly missed civileme. you have provided the user community with so much help and been pivitol in the acceptance of mandrake as one of the best linux distributions. it's mandrakesoft's loss to let you go, but hopefully they can bring you back quickly, as soon as things improve for them. regardless of what happens, i'm certain that great opportunities await you. again, thank you for all your wonderful assistance. On Monday 29 July 2002 06:09 pm, you wrote: --- civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip My involvement with the fixing process is becoming distant as I struggle to complete a few more testing tools before my lay-off is effective. (two days hence). Civileme -+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Business Computer Projects - Disclaimer -+-+-+-+-+-+-+- This message, and any associated attachment is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify either the sender [EMAIL PROTECTED] or the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not necessarily the views of Business Computer Projects Ltd., unless specifically stated. Whilst every effort has been made to ensure that emails and their attachments are virus free, it is the responsibility of the recipient(s) to verify the integrity of such emails. Business Computer Projects Ltd BCP House 151 Charles Street Stockport Cheshire SK1 3JY Tel: +44 (0)161 355-3000 Fax: +44 (0)161 355-3001 Web: http://www.bcpsoftware.com http://www.bcpsoftware.com/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Civilme petition.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 30 July 2002 9:17 am, Eric McClure did speak unto the huddled masses, saying: I'll sign it also. aolme too/aol there isn't even a petition and it is already filling up. how about some details, what is happening? - -- ... and if you drown, die knowing you were headed for the shore. -from farenheight 451 shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9RsCFBwq+ZwvIN/oRAqTxAJ4y94Y46W5ZeKRcMf+rEWLE8fXapgCcC6fq V8RsIpnDpekI+LpYO5+UqG8= =I2ap -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Civilme petition.
Oh, no... Count me in, too. He helps me a lot. = []'s Lúcio Costa Linux user #204519 We do what we can, we give what we have Our doubt is our passion and our passion is our task The rest is the madness of art. ___ Yahoo! PageBuilder O super editor para criação de sites: é grátis, fácil e rápido. http://br.geocities.yahoo.com/v/pb.html Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Civilme petition.
frankie wrote: anyone fancy starting a Save Civilme petition Seems a big shame that the guy who fronts to the users more then any other Mandrake employee is gettting kicked.. Nuts for mandrake really.. since Civilme and Vincent are the two main reasons these mailing lists are held in such high esteem. And these mailing lists are what got Mandrake where they are now... (the good stuff I mean.) He is the face (figuratively speaking) that most of associate to mandrake.. I don't even know the CEO's name, and I don't really want to since he probably doesn't write code. :-) (and he is probably just a Suit.) Lets face it, with Linux it's the knowledge we value, and for that Civilme is valuable indeed. rgds frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of tek1 Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 10:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fwd: [newbie] Problem with LM 9.0 - DON'T LEAVE US??? you will be truly missed civileme. you have provided the user community with so much help and been pivitol in the acceptance of mandrake as one of the best linux distributions. it's mandrakesoft's loss to let you go, but hopefully they can bring you back quickly, as soon as things improve for them. regardless of what happens, i'm certain that great opportunities await you. again, thank you for all your wonderful assistance. On Monday 29 July 2002 06:09 pm, you wrote: --- civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip My involvement with the fixing process is becoming distant as I struggle to complete a few more testing tools before my lay-off is effective. (two days hence). Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Don't do that. That post to the list was inadvertant. I meant it as a private reply on 9.0 I was on this list and on the expert list with more than 1000 posts before I was ever a mandrakesoft employee, and I have no plans to leave or diminish my activities. Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Civilme petition.
Title: RE: [newbie] Civilme petition. OK, but at least you know that you are appreciated and nobody takes your help and advice for granted. Dennis M. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of civileme Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:42 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Civilme petition. frankie wrote: anyone fancy starting a Save Civilme petition Seems a big shame that the guy who fronts to the users more then any other Mandrake employee is gettting kicked.. Nuts for mandrake really.. since Civilme and Vincent are the two main reasons these mailing lists are held in such high esteem. And these mailing lists are what got Mandrake where they are now... (the good stuff I mean.) He is the face (figuratively speaking) that most of associate to mandrake.. I don't even know the CEO's name, and I don't really want to since he probably doesn't write code. :-) (and he is probably just a Suit.) Lets face it, with Linux it's the knowledge we value, and for that Civilme is valuable indeed. rgds frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of tek1 Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 10:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fwd: [newbie] Problem with LM 9.0 - DON'T LEAVE US??? you will be truly missed civileme. you have provided the user community with so much help and been pivitol in the acceptance of mandrake as one of the best linux distributions. it's mandrakesoft's loss to let you go, but hopefully they can bring you back quickly, as soon as things improve for them. regardless of what happens, i'm certain that great opportunities await you. again, thank you for all your wonderful assistance. On Monday 29 July 2002 06:09 pm, you wrote: --- civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip My involvement with the fixing process is becoming distant as I struggle to complete a few more testing tools before my lay-off is effective. (two days hence). Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Don't do that. That post to the list was inadvertant. I meant it as a private reply on 9.0 I was on this list and on the expert list with more than 1000 posts before I was ever a mandrakesoft employee, and I have no plans to leave or diminish my activities. Civileme
Re: [newbie] Civilme petition.
30 2002 16:38, / : Count me in, too. In it also and wishing you the best civileme! ### Registered Linux User 271321 http://counter.li.org This message was sent from a Micro$oft_Free PC. Micro$oft:The company that made e-mail dangerous. Mandrake-Linux 8.2-Kernel-2.4.18-6mdk. ### Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Civilme petition.
Count me too I have seen civileme has helped a lot to people in this list. At 30/07/02, Lúcio Costa de Almeida wrote: Oh, no... Count me in, too. He helps me a lot. = []'s Lúcio Costa Linux user #204519 We do what we can, we give what we have Our doubt is our passion and our passion is our task The rest is the madness of art. ___ Yahoo! PageBuilder O super editor para criação de sites: é grátis, fácil e rápido. http://br.geocities.yahoo.com/v/pb.html Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Civilme petition.
On Tuesday 30 July 2002 11:23 am, you wrote: I'll sign. Ditto. -- Jonathan Dlouhy Tuesday, July 30, 2002 MS Windows -- From the people who brought you BOB! Registered Linux user #264482 Powered by Mandrake Linux 8.1 -Original Message- From: frankie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [newbie] Civilme petition. anyone fancy starting a Save Civilme petition Seems a big shame that the guy who fronts to the users more then any other Mandrake employee is gettting kicked.. Nuts for mandrake really.. since Civilme and Vincent are the two main reasons these mailing lists are held in such high esteem. And these mailing lists are what got Mandrake where they are now... (the good stuff I mean.) He is the face (figuratively speaking) that most of associate to mandrake.. I don't even know the CEO's name, and I don't really want to since he probably doesn't write code. :-) (and he is probably just a Suit.) Lets face it, with Linux it's the knowledge we value, and for that Civilme is valuable indeed. rgds frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of tek1 Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 10:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fwd: [newbie] Problem with LM 9.0 - DON'T LEAVE US??? you will be truly missed civileme. you have provided the user community with so much help and been pivitol in the acceptance of mandrake as one of the best linux distributions. it's mandrakesoft's loss to let you go, but hopefully they can bring you back quickly, as soon as things improve for them. regardless of what happens, i'm certain that great opportunities await you. again, thank you for all your wonderful assistance. On Monday 29 July 2002 06:09 pm, you wrote: --- civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip My involvement with the fixing process is becoming distant as I struggle to complete a few more testing tools before my lay-off is effective. (two days hence). Civileme -+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Business Computer Projects - Disclaimer -+-+-+-+-+-+-+- This message, and any associated attachment is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify either the sender [EMAIL PROTECTED] or the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not necessarily the views of Business Computer Projects Ltd., unless specifically stated. Whilst every effort has been made to ensure that emails and their attachments are virus free, it is the responsibility of the recipient(s) to verify the integrity of such emails. Business Computer Projects Ltd BCP House 151 Charles Street Stockport Cheshire SK1 3JY Tel: +44 (0)161 355-3000 Fax: +44 (0)161 355-3001 Web: http://www.bcpsoftware.com http://www.bcpsoftware.com/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Civilme petition - PETITION???.
7/30/02 5:55:06 PM, John Rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 01:56 AM 31/07/02, you did spake with authority thus (but kindly): COMMENT #1 Hello, What I don't understand is how we receive the newsletter boasting of such great news regarding their financial status etc. and then when it comes down to it they are laying off key players. What can you really believe? -- Thank you, Vincent A. Primavera. Vincent, this is the way of THAT world. After more years than I care to recall as an international corporate fixer, the lie has always been the first solution. Just look at the combination of the last year: Dot.bombs, Enron, Xerox (!) etc. etc. Want to see something really amazing about loyalty ? Go look up the saga - still going - of Cyberwings.com and the strange behaviour of its owner. COMMENT 2 FAR MORE POSITIVE! Take a look at what we have here, someone who has a lot of skills, deals well with people and seems to have lot of drive!! This is someone that should have his own tech support business. I dont think that I have ever met anyone who was REALLY happy with his or her job working for someone else for more than a few years. Self employment has been a great way for me and a number of folks I know to get out of this rut. I would think that if someone like civilme were to open some sort of Linux tech support business even if only starting by selling his services on ebay in a few months or a year he could really do very well for himself and never have to worry about a layoff again. And what a asset to linux!! Marc Good Thinking Marc, but in fact most people do not want to run their own business. Otherwise Big Business couldn't exist. It is nowhere near as hard as it looks to start a business if you have a *marketable* skill. Civileme, go for it! I am a an ex-professional in this area and I have watched you here for a lng time. A good LOYAL and dedicated employee - AND - well liked. KEYPOINT: Well -liked. An axiom in IT is that to find a Geek who can even be invitable to a party is a rare thing, much less get near the paying customers! :-) There is a VAST difference between geeking and client support - and usually the twain rarely meet. A fact of life in the industry. One small suggestion: Do not get involved in support like this area! It is (a) too time-consuming (b) won't feed your starving wives and kid - EVER. As an example I give you:Mandrake. nearly gone - as -I predicted (sadly) ( Do it as a hobby by all means or as a contribution to Linux comm) BUT Get into the REAL world REAL User Market. Businesspeople are used to being ripped off by Microsoft. Set up as a Small Business Network Consultant. Specialise in 10 bums on seats. Offer handholding for a year cheaply ( $10 per support call by email/phone) There is a logic in this Go get a quote for a 2, 5, 10 seat Microsoft SBO Network. Price to it. NEVER under-quote! OVER-Service! Offer complete packages and serious upgrades. That means: supply equipment, install it, Internet them Setup a Website for them Make it ACTUALLY work. GUARANTEE your work. Be UNDERSTANDING. Just remember, the real world could not care less about Linux/Microsoft/Fruit We only want something that works So long as *you* SET EVERYTHING UP FOR THEM and *you* NEVER MENTION THE COMMAND LINE you will make more money than you ever dreamed. The only catch with this scenario for anyone else that gets excited, too: With the exception of Lindows - frightening M$ so much that they are seriously trying to stop them now. Linux is still a ^%$#$%^*^^ of a product to install and setup in a business-workable format. DON'T even THINK about going into the business unless you know as much as Civileme!! AND can be polite under stress - and never, ever smartass a User because of your own ego. There! That knocks out 98.87% of all the people who play around with Linux. :-) Good luck, Civileme, this should be the best thing that ever happened to you. If I can help you in any way, contact me - this is *my* area of knowhow. John Rigby Sorry John but you have made 2 big mistakes here. First a lot more people than you think would like to operate their own business however only a few have the courage talent and drive. Most have been beaten down to much by the school system and or past jobs in corperate America. Second is the FIRST rule of starting a small business, Find something that you like to do and then find someone to pay you for it. If you dont enjoy what you are doing you are missing a lot of the value of being self employed. A person may not make as much money this way but can still make a tidy sum. This is *my* area of knowhow As far as your other points about Mandrake and Linux in general you have allready shown in the past that you refuse to look at both sides of the issue so I will not waste my time in commenting.
Re: [newbie] Civilme petition - PETITION???.
John Rigby wrote: Linux is still a ^%$#$%^*^^ of a product to install and setup in a business-workable format. -- John, I am tired of hearing you say this. I have no idea of what problems you have (please don't bother telling me). I have a dual boot machine with Mandrake 8.2 and (sort of) Win 98. Mandrake installed without a wrinkle and has remained stable. Win 98 was a struggle to get video and modem (external) to work. Furthermore when that decorated soldier - Gen Fault - salutes the reboot loses the video driver and it is another fight to get it setup properly. When I get a proper scanner, I will rip out Win 98 and the CD will be converted to a dartboard with a house rule that any dart going in the center hole and causing no damage will lose the thrower 50 points. My wife who hates computers uses Mandrake. My grand-daughter loves it and my 92 year old step-mother in law uses linux. In terms of ease of setup, facility in use and overall design, Mandrake knocks the socks off MS. I haven't even mentioned price either. Find out what your problem is and get it fixed but please spae us from these generalized bitch sessions. Cheers John Montgomery Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Civilme petition.
If you read the newsletter and more of the info at mandrake.com you will find that mandrake is claiming inproved financial status from a increase in sales and a cut in operating expenses part of witch involves cutting the number of employes. A company can not operate at a loss even a small one for ever and if you look at all the details you will find that they have been operating at a loss for quite some time. Mandrake does project operating at no loss or a small profit by Jan 1 The current trend of increased sales and cut operating expenses seem to confirm that. Lets face it operating at a loss for a extended period of time once the money runs out it is all over and the doors close for ever. Mandrake is takeing what ever steps it takes to stop that from happening. Maybe after sales increase enough they will be able to bring GREAT folks like civilme back into the workforce. Meanwhile it is a shame tthat people like civilme get caught in the middle. If everything that I have read at mandrake.com is true I doubt that management is to happy about these layoffs. I think that in a year or 2 Mandrake will be turned around and hireing on as many people as it takes to make the best possible linux distro, not that they have not been doing a great job so far but they seem to have streached their cash reserves to far. I hope I am correct in all this but only time will tell. Meanwhill I wish all the best to both civilme and Mandrake Marc 7/30/02 11:03:03 AM, Vincent A. Primavera [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, What I don't understand is how we receive the newsletter boasting of such great news regarding their financial status etc. and then when it comes down to it they are laying off key players. What can you really believe? -- Thank you, Vincent A. Primavera. On Tue, 2002-07-30 at 14:57, frankie wrote: anyone fancy starting a Save Civilme petition Seems a big shame that the guy who fronts to the users more then any other Mandrake employee is gettting kicked.. Nuts for mandrake really.. since Civilme and Vincent are the two main reasons these mailing lists are held in such high esteem. And these mailing lists are what got Mandrake where they are now... (the good stuff I mean.) He is the face (figuratively speaking) that most of associate to mandrake.. I don't even know the CEO's name, and I don't really want to since he probably doesn't write code. :-) (and he is probably just a Suit.) Lets face it, with Linux it's the knowledge we value, and for that Civilme is valuable indeed. rgds frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of tek1 Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 10:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fwd: [newbie] Problem with LM 9.0 - DON'T LEAVE US??? you will be truly missed civileme. you have provided the user community with so much help and been pivitol in the acceptance of mandrake as one of the best linux distributions. it's mandrakesoft's loss to let you go, but hopefully they can bring you back quickly, as soon as things improve for them. regardless of what happens, i'm certain that great opportunities await you. again, thank you for all your wonderful assistance. On Monday 29 July 2002 06:09 pm, you wrote: --- civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip My involvement with the fixing process is becoming distant as I struggle to complete a few more testing tools before my lay-off is effective. (two days hence). Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Civilme petition.
I've already posted an article about this at PCLinuxOnline: http://www.pclinuxonline.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=2886 I suggest that you make your feelings heard by posting a comment about it. If you still want a petition, I can post an article about it. Sridhar (AKA Yama) On Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:57:22 +0800, frankie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: anyone fancy starting a Save Civilme petition Seems a big shame that the guy who fronts to the users more then any other Mandrake employee is gettting kicked.. Nuts for mandrake really.. since Civilme and Vincent are the two main reasons these mailing lists are held in such high esteem. And these mailing lists are what got Mandrake where they are now... (the good stuff I mean.) He is the face (figuratively speaking) that most of associate to mandrake.. I don't even know the CEO's name, and I don't really want to since he probably doesn't write code. :-) (and he is probably just a Suit.) Lets face it, with Linux it's the knowledge we value, and for that Civilme is valuable indeed. rgds frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of tek1 Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 10:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fwd: [newbie] Problem with LM 9.0 - DON'T LEAVE US??? you will be truly missed civileme. you have provided the user community with so much help and been pivitol in the acceptance of mandrake as one of the best linux distributions. it's mandrakesoft's loss to let you go, but hopefully they can bring you back quickly, as soon as things improve for them. regardless of what happens, i'm certain that great opportunities await you. again, thank you for all your wonderful assistance. On Monday 29 July 2002 06:09 pm, you wrote: --- civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip My involvement with the fixing process is becoming distant as I struggle to complete a few more testing tools before my lay-off is effective. (two days hence). Civileme -- Sridhar Dhanapalan The Information Revolution will be fought on the command line. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
