Re: [newbie] more BS from RIAA: Music Labels Plant Online Decoys, Mull Lawsuits
Here is the site to assuage guilt http://www.fairtunes.com/functions/mlmain.php derek here is that site On Sunday 07 Jul 2002 7:41 pm, Roger Sherman wrote: On Fri, 5 Jul 2002, shane wrote: it is funny, i buy music the same way i buy software. i get it free, and if i think it i pay for it, for which i get a cd that collects dust, cause i already have it. There is a website, in my opinion a great one, where you send them money, tell them the band you want that money to go to (no matter how big or small, they'll find 'em), and they give the money to the band (after letting it sit in an interest bearing account, so they don't have to charge for this service). You can give as little as a dollar if you want...anyways, IMO as a professional musician, guys like Bill are out of their minds. GIVE AWAY the recorded music? So that you'll come see us? Give me a break...and how are we supposed to pay for the studio time? Sheesh... OK, anyways...I've unfortunately lost the URL for that service...if anyone knows it, please, please post it. I personally know musicians who've absolutely had money taken out of their pockets, and food taken off their tables cause of Napster (Limewire, blah blah), and this site is a great way to give back to the musicians while bypassing the labels. now that we have the mandrake club, i still pay, but i make the cd myself. music clubs that trusted me to buy it if i liked it and delete it other wise would find me a paying member. and the blank cd sales people could make billions... ;) - -- Microsoft: Having a false sense of security was never so expensive. shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9JkatBwq+ZwvIN/oRAuJzAJ4zvvc/LMsiHBiR7dgKW6i59WBrlgCfQ4/D eiHWavw0/Lde2G0KSkcAgK8= =a8jv -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] more BS from RIAA: Music Labels Plant Online Decoys,Mull Lawsuits
Derek Jennings wrote: Here is the site to assuage guilt http://www.fairtunes.com/functions/mlmain.php I tried this site, and after wandering around deciding which artists to support (Cassandra Complex, Sheila Chandra and the Cocteau twins, if anyone's interested) and filling in my credit card details, I had to give up because the idiots at Paypal are unaware of the existence of my country of residence (Turkey, which is not exactly off the map). Sir Robin -- We're clouds over the sea, or flecks of matter in the ocean when the ocean seems lit from within. I know I'm drunk when I start this ocean talk. - Rumi Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Üniversitesi Ankara 06533 http://www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] more BS from RIAA: Music Labels Plant Online Decoys,Mull Lawsuits
Sevatio wrote: Check out this story: http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=internetnewsStoryID=1168474 Why do they even try to stop this. Can't they see it can't be stopped? The future is in sharing information and nothing can be done to make it different. RIAA and the like are just a bunch of stupid selfish bastards and they will soon become extinct. Keep on sharing people! Information to everyone! -- Live long and prosper! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] more BS from RIAA: Music Labels Plant Online Decoys, Mull Lawsuits
On Fri, Jul 05, 2002 at 11:34:10AM -0700, Sevatio wrote: Check out this story: http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=internetnewsStoryID=1168474 While I'm all for sharing and sticking it to the RIAA, MPAA, and the man, I tend to side with the artist on this issue. It would be nice to see a distribution system in which the artist could reap the benefits of his/her labor more than the record label. It's great to share as in free software, but you are projecting your ideas about sharing onto others. How do you make your living? Shall we all of a sudden decide that your labor should be shared for free, without any input from you? People who develop free software do so willingly. I don't think it's fair to project that onto others so you don't have to spend $15 on a crummy CD. Lately I'm having a hard time finding music I want to purchase anyway. That's the fault of the record labels and FM radio. Blah!! I know this will be an unpopular position on this list, so let me practice moving side to side and ducking . . . Todd -- Todd Slater Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] more BS from RIAA: Music Labels Plant Online Decoys, Mull Lawsuits
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Friday 05 July 2002 8:13 pm, Todd Slater wrote: While I'm all for sharing and sticking it to the RIAA, MPAA, and the man, I tend to side with the artist on this issue. It would be nice to see a distribution system in which the artist could reap the benefits of his/her labor more than the record label. It's great to share as in free software, but you are projecting your ideas about sharing onto others. How do you make your living? Shall we all of a sudden decide that your labor should be shared for free, without any input from you? People who develop free software do so willingly. I don't think it's fair to project that onto others so you don't have to spend $15 on a crummy CD. Lately I'm having a hard time finding music I want to purchase anyway. That's the fault of the record labels and FM radio. Blah!! I know this will be an unpopular position on this list, so let me practice moving side to side and ducking . . . Although not a recording artist I agree with you, although CDs were costing £13-£15 a shot long before the Internet haled up over the horizon ;) As a classical musician (viola, violin, piano) my sort of music is rarely discussed in this context, which is a pity because it has unique problems. The most pertinent is that, apart from the output of a few small companies* who do a lot of digging in libraries and bring forth fascinating esoterica, everything that can be recorded has been recorded multiple times; why have eight slightly different copies of a Mahler symphony? That fact has finally got through to recording companies which have flown into a wild panic, stopped new recordings, terminated artists' contracts and started issuing their back catalogue en bloc. This slash and burn has had a pleasant impact on the consumer (I'm regularly seeing boxed sets of two or three CDs for £12-£15, which is a nice incentive to fill in the gaps) but, in the medium or long term, is disastrous as there is no fertile ground left. I would like to see it recognised that the Internet is an obviously good way of distributing music and rows and rows of plastic boxes in a shop are anachronistic. The RIAA et alia, as a block to change, should be summarily legislated out of existence, contracts between record companies and artists should be bought out at mandated rates, and artists should be obliged to sell, track by track, direct to the consumer, at reasonable costs (a flat rate per track or similar) with appropriate digital rights management. 'Record shops' should become quasi-Internet cafes with CD burners and printers (for sleeve material) ad lib, so that those who don't have their own equipment can still take part and bring their own media. (I have no problem with Palladium provided it is used to enforce DRM for goods with reasonable price structures; I hope that, if Microsoft thinks it can set these structures, it is sorely mistaken. Such a job is not for a private company). Alastair * http://www.hyperion-records.com/ being an outstanding example. - -- Alastair Scott (London, United Kingdom) http://www.unmetered.org.uk/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9JfmvCv59vFiSU4YRAjLeAKCqVgsGBi0llB/RjK+LaFhaYg9OtwCeOFdz d6FrC9OAHohjaIflwCycNV0= =+W59 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] more BS from RIAA: Music Labels Plant Online Decoys, Mull Lawsuits
You're absolutely right, Todd. Everyone deserves to be reasonably compensated for the creative and productive value-added work that they do. Sadly, there seem to be three extremes that get in the way: 1) Greed -- some (like monopolistic, anti-trustworthy Microsoft and grossly over-paid athletes, actors, corporate CEOs, etc.) who excessively, disproportionately, and unreasonably profit from whatever value-added they contribute to society; 2) Theft -- those who steal the value-added of others' work, whatever it may be, without being willing to pay reasonable compensation; and 3) rip-off-artists who profit disproportionately on the work and productivity of others. (One has to wonder-out-loud what value-added lawyers, packagers, and the advertising industry provide to society. For a $5.00 box of cereal a farmer gets what, 9-cents? It could be argued that the computer software shareware concept and the GNU-Linux open source initiatives just might be among the most significant developments in the history of mankind. For in this we see the very best of humanity -- many, many talented people freely sharing their best efforts for the good of all -- and many appreciative users supporting those efforts in various ways. But then, sadly, there are too-many who want everything free and contribute nothing to anyone. Perhaps the web will remedy this problem in creative new ways that we have not yet seen. On Friday 05 July 2002 12:13, you wrote: While I'm all for sharing and sticking it to the RIAA, MPAA, and the man, I tend to side with the artist on this issue. It would be nice to see a distribution system in which the artist could reap the benefits of his/her labor more than the record label. It's great to share as in free software, but you are projecting your ideas about sharing onto others. How do you make your living? Shall we all of a sudden decide that your labor should be shared for free, without any input from you? People who develop free software do so willingly. I don't think it's fair to project that onto others so you don't have to spend $15 on a crummy CD. Lately I'm having a hard time finding music I want to purchase anyway. That's the fault of the record labels and FM radio. Blah!! I know this will be an unpopular position on this list, so let me practice moving side to side and ducking . . . Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] more BS from RIAA: Music Labels Plant Online Decoys, Mull Lawsuits
On Fri, 5 Jul 2002 15:13:55 -0400 Todd Slater [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jul 05, 2002 at 11:34:10AM -0700, Sevatio wrote: Check out this story: http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=internetnewsStoryID=1168474 While I'm all for sharing and sticking it to the RIAA, MPAA, and the man, I tend to side with the artist on this issue. It would be nice to see a distribution system in which the artist could reap the benefits of his/her labor more than the record label. It's great to share as in free software, but you are projecting your ideas about sharing onto others. How do you make your living? Shall we all of a sudden decide that your labor should be shared for free, without any input from you? People who develop free software do so willingly. I don't think it's fair to project that onto others so you don't have to spend $15 on a crummy CD. Lately I'm having a hard time finding music I want to purchase anyway. That's the fault of the record labels and FM radio. Blah!! I know this will be an unpopular position on this list, so let me practice moving side to side and ducking . . . I couldn't disagree with you more on this one. These artists aren't getting shafted because people steal music online. They're getting shafted because record companies don't pay them squat compared to what they make the record companies. Let's face it. They're getting their money anyway because they're paid up front, and nothing beyond that. In fact this is actually helping the lesser known bands. Some of them are quite happy about the whole music sharing thing. They make their money doing concerts, not by selling records. This just gives them more exposure, enabling them to sell more tickets. Eventually, I think we'll see the end of record companies. Bands will all give their music away online so that people will go and see them live. Bill Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] more BS from RIAA: Music Labels Plant Online Decoys, Mull Lawsuits
On Fri, 5 Jul 2002 18:02:26 -0400 Bill Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 5 Jul 2002 15:13:55 -0400 Todd Slater [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jul 05, 2002 at 11:34:10AM -0700, Sevatio wrote: Check out this story: http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=internetnewsStoryID=1168474 While I'm all for sharing and sticking it to the RIAA, MPAA, and the man, I tend to side with the artist on this issue. It would be nice to see a distribution system in which the artist could reap the benefits of his/her labor more than the record label. It's great to share as in free software, but you are projecting your ideas about sharing onto others. How do you make your living? Shall we all of a sudden decide that your labor should be shared for free, without any input from you? People who develop free software do so willingly. I don't think it's fair to project that onto others so you don't have to spend $15 on a crummy CD. Lately I'm having a hard time finding music I want to purchase anyway. That's the fault of the record labels and FM radio. Blah!! I know this will be an unpopular position on this list, so let me practice moving side to side and ducking . . . I couldn't disagree with you more on this one. These artists aren't getting shafted because people steal music online. They're getting shafted because record companies don't pay them squat compared to what they make the record companies. Let's face it. They're getting their money anyway because they're paid up front, and nothing beyond that. In fact this is actually helping the lesser known bands. Some of them are quite happy about the whole music sharing thing. They make their money doing concerts, not by selling records. This just gives them more exposure, enabling them to sell more tickets. Eventually, I think we'll see the end of record companies. Bands will all give their music away online so that people will go and see them live. Bill Umm, I think you agree with me more than you disagree with me. I said I side with the artist and against the record labels, RIAA, MPAA. I agree that the artists get the shaft because of the record labels, but they also get the shaft because people steal music online. Why does the fact that they get shafted from the label, or that they get paid enough (according to you) make it OK to steal their music online? I nearly always side with labor, and in the case of music, I think the artists should get all they're entitled to. I don't care how much it is, or if it seems ridiculous to you. I don't have a problem with professional athletes making millions of dollars as long as the industry can support them through ticket sales and merchandising. After all, the athletes are who the fans pay to see. I'd rather the athletes get the money instead of the owner and team shareholders. (I don't believe I've ever seen the owner of a professional team who did not earn a handsome income, either.) As far as up-and-coming bands are concerned, if they want to share their music, that's great. My two brothers have a band and they released a CD, and I posted it on alt.binaries.mp3.blues (with their permission, of course). I understand that sharing can create exposure. However, these bands _voluntarily_ share their music. When somebody takes a commercial cd, rips it and shares it via Internet, the artist/band is not consulted as to whether they would like to share their music to get more fans at their concert; the ripper has made that decision for them. I still think it's appropriate to ask how you would feel if society at large decided that the fruits of your labor should be shared without your consent, or that X amount of dollars is enough for you. I'm not sure that bands want to make their living playing live concerts--that's a hard life with a quick burnout. But if they do, that's their choice. Let them give their music away. But if I want to sell a CD that I write and perform, I sure as hell don't want anybody else deciding for me. If the content is not worth paying for in a consumer's mind, it's not worth owning and listening to. I would love to see the end of record companies, and see the artists have total control over their music and its distribution. Todd -- Todd Slater Men are born ignorant, not stupid. They are made stupid by education. (Bertrand Russell) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] more BS from RIAA: Music Labels Plant Online Decoys,Mull Lawsuits
If you really want the artists to reap the fruits of their labour, you should their CD *directly* from them. Here's the not well known the reason... The typical top-40 artist earns only 70 cents per CD sale. Yes, 70 cents! Of that 70 cents, they have to pay the studio and promo costs. This is why you've seen a few big-name artists file for bankruptcy. It's because they simply don't have much money at the bottom line. This is also why you've seen bignamers rebel against their label... Dixie Chicks, Courtney Love, and etc... (this is not an example based on my taste in music). So when you go to your CD store and buy a CD through those traditional channels, you're making the labels very fat and the artists very thin. So buy the CDs from the artists if you want them to get any money. For example, Aimee Mann earns about %50 on each CD sale. That's a very good percentage compared to 70cents per $18 CD. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
