[nlug] Google Apps Mail POP issues

2011-11-23 Thread Jack Coats
My wife is using google apps (finally got our domain updated so email
works), but she
has one issue.  She has a need to pop her email down to 2 machines,
that is all mail
to both machines. (Yes, she understands the issues, and has been doing
this for some
time).

As we moved over to Google Apps this week, she can pop it down to only
one machine
or the other.  Depending on 'who checks in first' only that one gets
it and the other
machine can't even see the email on the machine.

Her client is Outlook 2010 on one machine, Outlook 2003 on the other,
and it is at
google.com/a/coats.org

I have waded through all the google apps settings and client settings
I can stomach, and
need some help.

Suggestions?

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Re: [nlug] Google Apps Mail POP issues

2011-11-23 Thread Curt Lundgren
Outlook *and* POP?  Oh my...

Is there any possibility of using IMAP?

Curt

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Jack Coats j...@coats.org wrote:

 My wife is using google apps (finally got our domain updated so email
 works), but she
 has one issue.  She has a need to pop her email down to 2 machines,
 that is all mail
 to both machines. (Yes, she understands the issues, and has been doing
 this for some
 time).

 As we moved over to Google Apps this week, she can pop it down to only
 one machine
 or the other.  Depending on 'who checks in first' only that one gets
 it and the other
 machine can't even see the email on the machine.

 Her client is Outlook 2010 on one machine, Outlook 2003 on the other,
 and it is at
 google.com/a/coats.org

 I have waded through all the google apps settings and client settings
 I can stomach, and
 need some help.

 Suggestions?

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Re: [nlug] Google Apps Mail POP issues

2011-11-23 Thread Chris McQuistion
The default behavior for Outlook when accessing a POP account is to
download emails via POP and NOT leave the message on the server.  You can
override that behavior in Outlook so it DOES leave the messages on the
server and then your other Outlook computer can download the messages, too.
 (There are some POP settings you can change in the individual account's
Mail Settings that you access from the web-based interface, but the
default settings (when messages are access with POP, leave a copy in the
Inbox) should be fine for your setup.

That said, I would highly recommend using IMAP instead.  If you do POP from
two computer, if you read a message on one computer or delete it or move it
to a folder, those status changes will not be reflected on the other
computer.  IMAP is designed to handle these issues, so you can access your
email from the Gmail web interface or Outlook computer 1 or Outlook
computer 2 and all your read status, deleted messages, or messages moved
into folders will all stay in sync automatically.

Chris



On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 11:32 AM, Jack Coats j...@coats.org wrote:

 My wife is using google apps (finally got our domain updated so email
 works), but she
 has one issue.  She has a need to pop her email down to 2 machines,
 that is all mail
 to both machines. (Yes, she understands the issues, and has been doing
 this for some
 time).

 As we moved over to Google Apps this week, she can pop it down to only
 one machine
 or the other.  Depending on 'who checks in first' only that one gets
 it and the other
 machine can't even see the email on the machine.

 Her client is Outlook 2010 on one machine, Outlook 2003 on the other,
 and it is at
 google.com/a/coats.org

 I have waded through all the google apps settings and client settings
 I can stomach, and
 need some help.

 Suggestions?

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Re: [nlug] Google Apps Mail POP issues

2011-11-23 Thread John F. Eldredge
Jack Coats j...@coats.org wrote:

 My wife is using google apps (finally got our domain updated so email
 works), but she
 has one issue.  She has a need to pop her email down to 2 machines,
 that is all mail
 to both machines. (Yes, she understands the issues, and has been doing
 this for some
 time).
 
 As we moved over to Google Apps this week, she can pop it down to only
 one machine
 or the other.  Depending on 'who checks in first' only that one gets
 it and the other
 machine can't even see the email on the machine.
 
 Her client is Outlook 2010 on one machine, Outlook 2003 on the other,
 and it is at
 google.com/a/coats.org
 
 I have waded through all the google apps settings and client settings
 I can stomach, and
 need some help.
 
 Suggestions?
 

You need to use IMAP protocol rather than POP.  IMAP leaves a copy on the 
server, and syncs the status as well.  If you mark a message as read, or move 
the message into a folder (an IMAP folder on the server, not a local folder), 
those changes will be visible on any other machine that uses the same IMAP 
mailbox.  POP defaults to deleting the message on the server once it has been 
downloaded to the client.  Even if you set POP to leave messages on the server, 
reading a message on one machine wont affect its status on any other machine.

-- 
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to 
think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria

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Re: [nlug] Google Apps Mail POP issues

2011-11-23 Thread John F. Eldredge
Jack Coats j...@coats.org wrote:

 My wife is using google apps (finally got our domain updated so email
 works), but she
 has one issue.  She has a need to pop her email down to 2 machines,
 that is all mail
 to both machines. (Yes, she understands the issues, and has been doing
 this for some
 time).
 
 As we moved over to Google Apps this week, she can pop it down to only
 one machine
 or the other.  Depending on 'who checks in first' only that one gets
 it and the other
 machine can't even see the email on the machine.
 
 Her client is Outlook 2010 on one machine, Outlook 2003 on the other,
 and it is at
 google.com/a/coats.org
 
 I have waded through all the google apps settings and client settings
 I can stomach, and
 need some help.
 
 Suggestions?
 

You need to use IMAP protocol rather than POP.  IMAP leaves a copy on the 
server, and syncs the status as well.  If you mark a message as read, or move 
the message into a folder (an IMAP folder on the server, not a local folder), 
those changes will be visible on any other machine that uses the same IMAP 
mailbox.  POP defaults to deleting the message on the server once it has been 
downloaded to the client.  Even if you set POP to leave messages on the server, 
reading a message on one machine wont affect its status on any other machine.

-- 
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to 
think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria

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Re: [nlug] Google Apps Mail POP issues

2011-11-23 Thread Jack
The 'tin can and a string' network we have is not what we could
consider reliable.
At least with the email being 'sucked down' locally on each machine, she can
read it even during the (normally awkward) times the network is unavailable.

One machine is at the house, and the other is in her office (near the
horse barn),
where

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:36 PM, Curt Lundgren verif...@gmail.com wrote:
 Outlook *and* POP?  Oh my...

 Is there any possibility of using IMAP?

 Curt


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Re: [nlug] Google Apps Mail POP issues

2011-11-23 Thread Jack Coats
On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Chris McQuistion
cmcquist...@watkins.edu wrote:
 The default behavior for Outlook when accessing a POP account is to download
 emails via POP and NOT leave the message on the server.  You can override
 that behavior in Outlook so it DOES leave the messages on the server and
 then your other Outlook computer can download the messages, too.  (There are
 some POP settings you can change in the individual account's Mail Settings
 that you access from the web-based interface, but the default settings (when
 messages are access with POP, leave a copy in the Inbox) should be fine for
 your setup.
 That said, I would highly recommend using IMAP instead.  If you do POP from
 two computer, if you read a message on one computer or delete it or move it
 to a folder, those status changes will not be reflected on the other
 computer.  IMAP is designed to handle these issues, so you can access your
 email from the Gmail web interface or Outlook computer 1 or Outlook computer
 2 and all your read status, deleted messages, or messages moved into folders
 will all stay in sync automatically.
 Chris

Yes.  Personally I would rather have her use her gmail account on the
web directly,
but a local client does seem to help her out.

In the same way, I would like to see her use folder and filters for
various things,
but my high-tech-geophysicist-wife is trying to keep it as simple as
possible in her mind.
Obviously, all this is for my highest-priority-user! :)

Thanks to all.

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Re: [nlug] Google Apps Mail POP issues

2011-11-23 Thread Jack Coats
On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 1:11 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote:
 Jack Coats j...@coats.org wrote:

 My wife is using google apps (finally got our domain updated so email
 works), but she
 has one issue.  She has a need to pop her email down to 2 machines,
 that is all mail
 to both machines. (Yes, she understands the issues, and has been doing
 this for some
 time).

 As we moved over to Google Apps this week, she can pop it down to only
 one machine
 or the other.  Depending on 'who checks in first' only that one gets
 it and the other
 machine can't even see the email on the machine.

 Her client is Outlook 2010 on one machine, Outlook 2003 on the other,
 and it is at
 google.com/a/coats.org

 I have waded through all the google apps settings and client settings
 I can stomach, and
 need some help.

 Suggestions?


 You need to use IMAP protocol rather than POP.  IMAP leaves a copy on the 
 server, and syncs the status as well.  If you mark a message as read, or move 
 the message into a folder (an IMAP folder on the server, not a local folder), 
 those changes will be visible on any other machine that uses the same IMAP 
 mailbox.  POP defaults to deleting the message on the server once it has been 
 downloaded to the client.  Even if you set POP to leave messages on the 
 server, reading a message on one machine wont affect its status on any other 
 machine.

 --
 John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
 Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to 
 think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria

I guess I should see if I could configure IMAP to get the mail from
the server (that is why we are using POP) onto the machines.  Our
network being a shared-tin-can-and-wireless-string topology and it is
not nearly as reliable as a wired connection (or most wireless
elsewhere), I hesitate to just 'leave it all on the server, and use a
access it over the 'net' perspective.  Accessing things on the 'net is
often problematic here on camp.

Thanks for the thoughts!

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Re: [nlug] Google Apps Mail POP issues

2011-11-23 Thread James Fryman
On Nov 23, 2011, at 1:35 PM, Jack Coats wrote:

 On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 1:11 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote:
 Jack Coats j...@coats.org wrote:
 
 My wife is using google apps (finally got our domain updated so email
 works), but she
 has one issue.  She has a need to pop her email down to 2 machines,
 that is all mail
 to both machines. (Yes, she understands the issues, and has been doing
 this for some
 time).
 
 As we moved over to Google Apps this week, she can pop it down to only
 one machine
 or the other.  Depending on 'who checks in first' only that one gets
 it and the other
 machine can't even see the email on the machine.
 
 Her client is Outlook 2010 on one machine, Outlook 2003 on the other,
 and it is at
 google.com/a/coats.org
 
 I have waded through all the google apps settings and client settings
 I can stomach, and
 need some help.
 
 Suggestions?
 
 
 You need to use IMAP protocol rather than POP.  IMAP leaves a copy on the 
 server, and syncs the status as well.  If you mark a message as read, or 
 move the message into a folder (an IMAP folder on the server, not a local 
 folder), those changes will be visible on any other machine that uses the 
 same IMAP mailbox.  POP defaults to deleting the message on the server once 
 it has been downloaded to the client.  Even if you set POP to leave messages 
 on the server, reading a message on one machine wont affect its status on 
 any other machine.
 
 --
 John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
 Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not 
 to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria
 
 I guess I should see if I could configure IMAP to get the mail from
 the server (that is why we are using POP) onto the machines.  Our
 network being a shared-tin-can-and-wireless-string topology and it is
 not nearly as reliable as a wired connection (or most wireless
 elsewhere), I hesitate to just 'leave it all on the server, and use a
 access it over the 'net' perspective.  Accessing things on the 'net is
 often problematic here on camp.
 
 Thanks for the thoughts!

Consider exploring 'offline mode' with Outlook. Most mail clients allow you to 
download the full messages as opposed to just headers when you do have a 
network connection for access when the message is flakey. I'm pretty sure this 
will solve your needs, with the server acting as a sync source between your 
multiple computers. 

-James

-- 
James Fryman
ph +1.615.669.2048 | twitter jfryman | gtalk: ja...@frymanet.com

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Re: [nlug] Google Apps Mail POP issues

2011-11-23 Thread Tilghman Lesher
On Wednesday, November 23, 2011 01:35:45 pm Jack Coats wrote:
 On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 1:11 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com 
wrote:
  Jack Coats j...@coats.org wrote:
  My wife is using google apps (finally got our domain updated so email
  works), but she
  has one issue.  She has a need to pop her email down to 2 machines,
  that is all mail
  to both machines. (Yes, she understands the issues, and has been doing
  this for some
  time).
  
  As we moved over to Google Apps this week, she can pop it down to only
  one machine
  or the other.  Depending on 'who checks in first' only that one gets
  it and the other
  machine can't even see the email on the machine.
  
  Her client is Outlook 2010 on one machine, Outlook 2003 on the other,
  and it is at
  google.com/a/coats.org
  
  I have waded through all the google apps settings and client settings
  I can stomach, and
  need some help.
  
  Suggestions?
  
  You need to use IMAP protocol rather than POP.  IMAP leaves a copy on the
  server, and syncs the status as well.  If you mark a message as read, or
  move the message into a folder (an IMAP folder on the server, not a
  local folder), those changes will be visible on any other machine that
  uses the same IMAP mailbox.  POP defaults to deleting the message on the
  server once it has been downloaded to the client.  Even if you set POP
  to leave messages on the server, reading a message on one machine wont
  affect its status on any other machine.
 
 I guess I should see if I could configure IMAP to get the mail from
 the server (that is why we are using POP) onto the machines.  Our
 network being a shared-tin-can-and-wireless-string topology and it is
 not nearly as reliable as a wired connection (or most wireless
 elsewhere), I hesitate to just 'leave it all on the server, and use a
 access it over the 'net' perspective.  Accessing things on the 'net is
 often problematic here on camp.

I would suggest configuring a local (i.e. on campus) IMAP server and use
'slurp' or similar program to pull the messages off the POP server (and
populate the local IMAP server).  Since the messages are then accessed
via IMAP on both client machines, you get all the advantages of using IMAP
without the hassle of needing to maintain a good connection to the Internet.

-- 
Tilghman

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[nlug] Google Apps

2009-12-17 Thread Andrew Farnsworth
I'm considering moving my email service to google apps and I have my own
domain name.  Anyone have any experience with this and making the switch
without loosing email?

Andy

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Re: [nlug] Google Apps

2009-12-17 Thread Michael Schultheiss
Andrew Farnsworth wrote:
I'm considering moving my email service to google apps and I have my
own domain name.  Anyone have any experience with this and making the
switch without loosing email?

I use Google Apps for several domains and have migrated mail from
other providers to Google Apps.  With the paid version of Google Apps,
you can do IMAP mail migration from within the Google Apps admin
interface.  I've also done mail migration using IMAP clients.  

The easiest way to not lose mail is to not cancel your current mail
hosting until after the MX records have had a chance to propogate and
you've migrated any additional mail that may have come into the old mail
server.

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Re: [nlug] Google Apps

2009-12-17 Thread Michael Chaney
On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Andrew Farnsworth farn...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm considering moving my email service to google apps and I have my own
 domain name.  Anyone have any experience with this and making the switch
 without loosing email?

I've done it not only for my domains but most of my customers as well.
 It works fine, just make sure the MX is fully propagated before
switching off the old server.

Michael
-- 
Michael Darrin Chaney, Sr.
mdcha...@michaelchaney.com
http://www.michaelchaney.com/

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Re: [nlug] Google Apps

2009-12-17 Thread Chris McQuistion
Curt Lundgren and I are in the process of migrating everyone at
Watkins to Google Apps. We love it. It took a whe to figure everything
out but we have been doing a phased migration for the past couple
weeks without any problems.

I can give you more specific information and advice if you like,
including instructions on doing a phased deployment that will keep you
from losing any email.

Chris

On Thursday, December 17, 2009, Michael Chaney
mdcha...@michaelchaney.com wrote:
 On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Andrew Farnsworth farn...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm considering moving my email service to google apps and I have my own
 domain name.  Anyone have any experience with this and making the switch
 without loosing email?

 I've done it not only for my domains but most of my customers as well.
  It works fine, just make sure the MX is fully propagated before
 switching off the old server.

 Michael
 --
 Michael Darrin Chaney, Sr.
 mdcha...@michaelchaney.com
 http://www.michaelchaney.com/

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Re: [nlug] Google Apps

2009-12-17 Thread Andrew Farnsworth
On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Chris McQuistion
cmcquist...@watkins.eduwrote:

 Curt Lundgren and I are in the process of migrating everyone at
 Watkins to Google Apps. We love it. It took a whe to figure everything
 out but we have been doing a phased migration for the past couple
 weeks without any problems.

 I can give you more specific information and advice if you like,
 including instructions on doing a phased deployment that will keep you
 from losing any email.

 Chris


Chris,
  The first question I have is if signing up with google apps will interfere
with existing email and I think the answer is NO.  Until you change the DNS
/ MX records nothing will go there even if you setup with google apps.

Andy

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Re: [nlug] Google Apps

2009-12-17 Thread Chris McQuistion
You're exactly right.  You can sign up with Google Apps and start getting
stuff set up there, but don't change your MX records, yet.  Mail will still
flow to the old server.

You can set up a domain alias at Google Apps and modify your DNS settings to
point mail for that domain alias at Google Apps.

For example, we set up a domain alias of pilot.watkins.edu and we created
DNS records that point any incoming email that is destined for an @
pilot.watkins.edu email address to go to Google.  Since this is an alias,
people's actual email address is still @watkins.edu.

Next, we set up forwarding on each individual account at Watkins to forward
all email to that person's @pilot.watkins.edu email address (leaving an
original on their watkins.edu account, just in case.)

This means that when someone sends an email to example-u...@watkins.edu,
that message actually goes to our existing on-premise email server.  When it
gets there, a copy gets forwarded to example-u...@pilot.watkins.edu, which
delievers it to that users Google Mail account.  That user is now using
their Google Mail account to both send and receive email and everything
works great.

At some point (once all users are migrated over), we will change the DNS
records for the main @watkins.edu domain and all email will start flowing
directly to Google, not going through our email server any more.  DNS
records take a while to propogate, of course, but because we have it
configured the way we do, if some mail goes to the old system, even after
the switchover, that mail will still get forwarded to the appropriate place.

A key of course, is migrating all the existing mail.  I'm not sure if the
free version of Google Apps includes the IMAP import tool or not.  That's
what we're using for most migrations.  It just connects to our existing
server over secure IMAP and brings over all the mail.  Alternatively, there
is a desktop app you can install that just uploads your mail from your
system up to Google Mail.  There are probably a handful of other ways to do
migration as well, but those are the two most popular and the one's we're
using.  (We use the desktop app for Outlook users, because it also grabs
their contacts and calendars and local folder emails.)

Chris


On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Andrew Farnsworth farn...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Chris McQuistion cmcquist...@watkins.edu
  wrote:

 Curt Lundgren and I are in the process of migrating everyone at
 Watkins to Google Apps. We love it. It took a whe to figure everything
 out but we have been doing a phased migration for the past couple
 weeks without any problems.

 I can give you more specific information and advice if you like,
 including instructions on doing a phased deployment that will keep you
 from losing any email.

 Chris


 Chris,
   The first question I have is if signing up with google apps will
 interfere with existing email and I think the answer is NO.  Until you
 change the DNS / MX records nothing will go there even if you setup with
 google apps.

 Andy

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Re: [nlug] Google Apps

2009-12-17 Thread Chris McQuistion
There are several different versions, but the free version includes most of
the features (except the ability to sync with LDAP and do more fancy stuff).
 It is limited to 25 users.  We use the Education version (which is also
available for non-profits) and it is completely free and includes all
functionality of the Premier version.  There is a Team version that is kind
of a hybrid and I think it is free, but you can't use it for a whole domain.
 Lastly, there is the Premier version which is $50 per user/year, which
isn't really very bad, when you consider what you're getting.  The Premier
version has a max mailbox size of 25 GB/user, compared to 7.25 GB/user for
the other versions.

Chris


On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Andrew Farnsworth farn...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Chris McQuistion cmcquist...@watkins.edu
  wrote:

 You're exactly right.  You can sign up with Google Apps and start getting
 stuff set up there, but don't change your MX records, yet.  Mail will still
 flow to the old server.

 You can set up a domain alias at Google Apps and modify your DNS settings
 to point mail for that domain alias at Google Apps.

 For example, we set up a domain alias of pilot.watkins.edu and we created
 DNS records that point any incoming email that is destined for an @
 pilot.watkins.edu email address to go to Google.  Since this is an alias,
 people's actual email address is still @watkins.edu.

 Next, we set up forwarding on each individual account at Watkins to
 forward all email to that person's @pilot.watkins.edu email address
 (leaving an original on their watkins.edu account, just in case.)

 This means that when someone sends an email to example-u...@watkins.edu,
 that message actually goes to our existing on-premise email server.  When it
 gets there, a copy gets forwarded to example-u...@pilot.watkins.edu,
 which delievers it to that users Google Mail account.  That user is now
 using their Google Mail account to both send and receive email and
 everything works great.

 At some point (once all users are migrated over), we will change the DNS
 records for the main @watkins.edu domain and all email will start flowing
 directly to Google, not going through our email server any more.  DNS
 records take a while to propogate, of course, but because we have it
 configured the way we do, if some mail goes to the old system, even after
 the switchover, that mail will still get forwarded to the appropriate place.

 A key of course, is migrating all the existing mail.  I'm not sure if the
 free version of Google Apps includes the IMAP import tool or not.  That's
 what we're using for most migrations.  It just connects to our existing
 server over secure IMAP and brings over all the mail.  Alternatively, there
 is a desktop app you can install that just uploads your mail from your
 system up to Google Mail.  There are probably a handful of other ways to do
 migration as well, but those are the two most popular and the one's we're
 using.  (We use the desktop app for Outlook users, because it also grabs
 their contacts and calendars and local folder emails.)

 Chris


 This sounds really good, but a bit overkill for me as I am the only user on
 my domain and while I have several email addresses, it is really fairly
 simple.  I will probably get it setup, create the alias as you said, then
 test it and then throw the switch and test again over time as the dns change
 propogates.

 Also, I get my mail from my current provider via Pop3 so will not have any
 mail to migrate.  Then I will use imap to get mail from google.  Then, once
 everything has propogated, I will backup my web server and discontinue my
 account with my provider.  No point in paying them if I don't have too.

 Out of curiosity, what does it cost if you want to pay for google apps
 rather than use the free system?

 Andy


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