[NSP] Re: December TOTM
Shame we weren't quite in tune!-compared to the chanters in the Wild Hills video-but interesting how the chanters begin to attune further on in a set.!? -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Matt Seattle Sent: 23 November 2011 13:54 To: Dartmouth NPS Subject: [NSP] Re: December TOTM The obvious topic is tunes with a reference to the season (winter, soltice, Christmas, Hogmany, New Year). I suggest we pick a tune we all want to play and then combine it with one or more other tunes, as suggested by Barry Say. Here's one we prepared earlier, John, I think it satisfies the requirements - [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hQc8MIGqvM -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hQc8MIGqvM To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1873 / Virus Database: 2101/4633 - Release Date: 11/22/11
[NSP] Re: Farewell to Whisky - Niel Gow
Yes Rob, it certainly wasn't about joining AA! What always strikes me on hearing or playing a Gow tune is what a lovely man he seems to have been have been. This is borne out when you read Burns account of their meeting. In his Journal describes Gow as ''a short, stout-built Highland figure, with his greyish hair shed on his honest social brow, an interesting face, marking strong sense, kind open heartedness mixed with unmistrusting simplicity''. Wonderful. Oh to have been the metaphorical fly on the wall that day! Incidentally this is also confirmed by viewing Raeburn's great portrait of Gow. Mind you I write this today under the influence of last weekend's visit to the excellent new Burns Museum in Ayr, and also after viewing again a wonderful award-winning film ''The Tree of Liberty'' made in 1987 by Timothy Neat -The Songs of Robert Burns sang by Jean Redpath , researched and arranged by Serge Hovey. A deeply moving experience. It's now available on DVD. See it. Bill -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Rob Say Sent: 13 September 2011 19:43 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Farewell to Whisky - Niel Gow My powers of Google are strong this evening: "Agricultural Returns and the Government during the Napoleonic Wars" http://www.bahs.org.uk/01n1a5.pdf describes wet seasons, harvest failures, and the government reimposing restrictions on the use of grain. There's also in depth analysis of the large variations in the price of wheat of the period concerned.. R On 13/09/2011 19:28, Rob Say wrote: > Hi Francis - I looked in to this one a while back for some track notes > - here's a summary > > My understanding is that comment is attributed to Nathaniel and is in > the published collection of 1819 (The Beauties of Gow). > ( Interestingly the fiddler's companion has words from 1804: > http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/FAR_FARE.htm#FAREWELL_TO_WHISKEY_[1]) > > I searched for and found reference to the 'British Government > prohibition' to save the 'wasting of grain' but found only > unreferenced stories. Jack Campin has a long article on grain and meal > shortages (and riots). This one: > http://www.campin.me.uk/Embro/Webrelease/Embro/17riot/17riot.htm gives > a 6 fold increase in grain prices: > "The most extreme price rises for grain - to six times the previous > level - were in the years 1799 and 1800. This led to several attacks > on stores and carts, particularly in Leith, the Grassmarket, the > Cowgate, the West Port and the Pleasance, and the Volunteers were > called out to defend the dealers. This kind of action made them the > target of children's rhymes:" > But no references .. the riots should be relatively easy to find - or > ask Jack for his source, I see his name around and about... > > Grain prices are available for that time - e.g. National Archives Doc > ref: *152M/C1819/OH142 *(I didn't retrieve it!) > *Contents*: > "Need to encourage agriculture; suggests use of inferior grains in > distilleries; greater demand for barley in north of Scotland for > production of whiskey; price of grains in 1801 ands 1810 - 'Agricola' > to H.A." > > This book on the haggis: > http://www.avrf23.dsl.pipex.com/The%20Haggis%20TYPESET%2016%20feb-2.pdf > Both references grain prices and crop failures for the period: > " 1790s Harvest Failure, 1799 Price of corn was more than double the > level of the 1790s, Harvest Failure" > AND has a substantial reference list ... none of which are on my > bookshelf. > > Hope this helps > > Rob > > > > > > > > > On 13/09/2011 17:54, Francis Wood wrote: >> The note accompanying the fine tune 'Farewell to Whisky' appearing in >> the Gow 5th collection states: >> >> "This tune alludes to prohibiting the making of Whisky in 1799. >> It is expressive of a Highlander's sorrow on >> being deprived of his favourite beverage". >> >> Also in the 5th collection is the remedy to this distressing >> situation: 'Whisky Welcome back again', with the note: >> >> "Alluding to permitting Whisky to be distilled in the year 1801. >> It is a merry dancing Tune." >> >> I seem to remember reading that the prohibition was caused by a >> shortage of grain. Can anyone provide anything more specific about >> the relevant circumstances in 1799 - 1801? >> >> Francis >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > > > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.914 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3894 - Release Date: 09/13/11 07:35:00
[NSP] Re: Pipes with continuo?
Also is it not the case that when Highland pipers (including these students) pick up a set of Border pipes (as quite a few are doing nowadays though usually it's a set of 'Scottish Smallpipes' at first) the instrument is treated only as an ersatz Highland bagpipe? Yes now probably OT so maybe this conversation should take place in a different forum? Bill Still, what a shame that the pipers in that program only get an afternoon of something other than Highland music. I'm sure they get plenty more than that, John (they all take a second instrument), but only a tiny wee bit of it is Border piping. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3281 - Release Date: 11/26/10 07:34:00
[NSP] Re: BBC Radio bagpipes programme
Thanks and sorry guys, Mistaking 14.30 for 2.30am indicates the current extent of my affliction (dysphasia). I see it was first broadcast in 2004 (in the days when I could comprehend differences between am and pm and the 24 hour clock!) Bill -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Dave S Sent: 23 November 2010 13:52 To: Bill; Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site Subject: [NSP] Re: BBC Radio bagpipes programme bill, i programmed it on satellite at 15:30 european time -bbc r7 ciao dave On 11/23/2010 2:18 PM, Bill wrote: Bill . . . are you looking at the correct schedule? This is on BBC Radio 7, not Radio Scotland Francis, My first message quotes the url for BBC Radio7 schedules for today. The bagpipes prog you quote isn't on the online schedule. So then I looked online again at Radio Scotland's Tom Morton prog which is on in the afternoon after 2 but the bagpipes thing you mention isn't on it. Now reading my (hard copy) Radio Times -yes your prog is listed so the online BBC schedule is at variance with the Radio Times! Bill This is what the BBC site states: Next on: Today, 14:30 on BBC Radio 7 Synopsis Tom Morton investigates Pipes and Politics - from Northern Ireland to Galicia via Scotland and Northumbria. From January 2004. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - [2]www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3271 - Release Date: 11/23/10 07:34:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - [3]www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3272 - Release Date: 11/22/10 08:35:0 0 -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 2. http://www.avg.com/ 3. http://www.avg.com/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3271 - Release Date: 11/23/10 07:34:00
[NSP] Re: BBC Radio bagpipes programme
Bill . . . are you looking at the correct schedule? This is on BBC Radio 7, not Radio Scotland Francis, My first message quotes the url for BBC Radio7 schedules for today. The bagpipes prog you quote isn't on the online schedule. So then I looked online again at Radio Scotland's Tom Morton prog which is on in the afternoon after 2 but the bagpipes thing you mention isn't on it. Now reading my (hard copy) Radio Times -yes your prog is listed so the online BBC schedule is at variance with the Radio Times! Bill This is what the BBC site states: > Next on: > > Today, 14:30 on BBC Radio 7 > > Synopsis > > > Tom Morton investigates Pipes and Politics - from Northern Ireland to Galicia via Scotland and Northumbria. From January 2004. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3271 - Release Date: 11/23/10 07:34:00
[NSP] Re: BBC Radio bagpipes programme
Tom Morton's on radio Scotland this pm but I don't see any reference to this programme -Original Message----- From: Bill [mailto:bill_tel...@tiscali.co.uk] Sent: 23 November 2010 12:38 To: 'Francis Wood'; 'NSP group' Subject: RE: [NSP] BBC Radio bagpipes programme Are you sure? Doesn't feature in the schedule I'm looking at http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio7/programmes/schedules Bill -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Francis Wood Sent: 23 November 2010 08:57 To: NSP group Subject: [NSP] BBC Radio bagpipes programme BBC Radio 7 is broadcasting 'The Secret History of Bagpipes' at 14.30 today Described as 'Tom Morton investigates Pipes and Politics', this item may be of interest to NSP players. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3271 - Release Date: 11/21/10 19:35:00
[NSP] Re: BBC Radio bagpipes programme
Are you sure? Doesn't feature in the schedule I'm looking at http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio7/programmes/schedules Bill -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Francis Wood Sent: 23 November 2010 08:57 To: NSP group Subject: [NSP] BBC Radio bagpipes programme BBC Radio 7 is broadcasting 'The Secret History of Bagpipes' at 14.30 today Described as 'Tom Morton investigates Pipes and Politics', this item may be of interest to NSP players. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3271 - Release Date: 11/21/10 19:35:00
[NSP] Re: My pipes for sale
Vallerio wrote: >a new engagement, as part of my profession, will take me away from home for an extended >period of time (at least three years), in a place, the United Arabian Emirates, where >(you can easily imagine), it'll be impossible for me to play the pipes; Why? I've worked and lived in Iraq, Qatar, Tanzania, Hong Kong and with a bit of care and thought it's always been possible to play the pipes. Bill To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Rosslyn Castle
I only know a couple of things about Roslyn Castle (and I think one 's' is correct in the name). Here's sleeve notes from Hamish Moore's LP ''Cauld Wind Pipes'' : ''Found in Kerr's Collection. This tune is played on the Pastoral Pipes with Patsy Seddon on Clarsach and Dougie MacLean on fiddle. The tune, first known as 'The House of Glamis' was a successful 'weel kent' tune of the 18th Century, and was popular among the Pastoral Pipers of Perth. The title was changed at some time and is more widely known as Roslyn Castle.'' The other thing I know is that Robert Burns used the tune for at least for one of his songs, entitled only ''Song'' (unsurprising because the words are not one of his best songwriting achievements). As for Hamish's performance of the tune on Pastoral pipes these are a notoriously elusive, problematic instrument and I don't think has ever been repeated. Despite one or two claims I doubt whether any pipe-maker has managed to successfully make or restore a satisfactory playable set. Also the suggestion from the sleeve note that there was somehow at one time a corps of ''Pastoral Pipers of Perth'' seems slightly fanciful. These were early days in the Scottish bellows pipes revival of the 1980's and we were all a bit over-excited about all kinds of discoveries about old Scottish bellows-piping lore and new possibilities. Mind I could be totally wrong and maybe in days of yore there were lots of Pastoral pipers in Perth. Anyway it is a lovely haunting tune. Bill where the tune is played on Pastoral pipes (a deeply problematic instrument) state: -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Richard York Sent: 26 April 2010 13:11 To: NSP group Subject: [NSP] Rosslyn Castle Rosslyn/Roslyn/Roslin Castle is a tune I love, and it's in the NPS books. I'd like to find more about the origin. The story about the mason, from Andy May on his CD insert, is a great tale, but of course doesn't explain the tune's beginnings - I sort of assumed from there it was perhaps a lament related to the terrible deed. But it never seems very Scottish in its shape - all those major 7th leaps in a minor tune. We have a CD by the Welsh triple harp player Llio Rhydderch (OT thought... so was Lliopatra really Welsh, not Egyptian??!) who is very steeped in her tradition and takes it very studiously. She writes that there's a tradition that a relation of the famously Eponymous David of the White Rock, (and he died early mid C19th), travelled to Rosslyn Castle where he worked as a gardener, and took the tune with him from Wales. Certainly, once you hear her playing of it, it's absolutely Welsh. And very much the same feel as the David Of etc tune. On t'other hand she doesn't actually say who wrote it or when. While it's not strictly a Northumbrian Question, it's now in the nsp repertoire, so does anyone know any more of it, please? Thanks, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2835 - Release Date: 04/25/10 19:31:00
[NSP] Re: The Dark Island
Anthony said: Hello Colin ...or indeed no drones at all!! The tune was originally composed for the button-box by Ian McLachlan as Dr. Mackay's Farewell to Creagorry. It was given words and a name change when it was used for the BBC film "The Dark island". The claim in 1965 by journalist W Gordon Smith that the tune had been a traditional Highland pipe tune which had been adapted, is now widely accepted as a mistake. As aye Anthony Aye I've heard Ian Maclaughlan play it years ago at Auchtermuchty Festival (on the platform in the town market place) - a very nice a TMSA festival where people take over the square for dancing) and he announced it as The Dark Island. As often happens somebody has even given the tune words but as far as I remember they're probably better forgotten! Bill To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Pipe cases (again)
Thanks Barry, this looks handy for most purposes. How many sets of pipes can be fitted into this bag? I sometimes have to carry two or three sets including a set of border pipes. Also it seems the size of this one exceeds airline cabin luggage maximum dimensions (56x45x25cm). Although I only very rarely travel by air I would never take my pipes other than as carry-on luggage and have discovered that a cabin-approved wheeled trolley bag (with extending handle) is ideal. So I tend to use this nowadays to wheel all my pipes around no matter what the mode of transport -especially walking! The only thing to look out for is that vibrations from wheeling can cause reeds to become dislodged. Bill -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Barry Say Sent: 09 April 2010 21:08 To: 'NSP group' Subject: [NSP] Pipe cases (again) Hi All, I have just taken delivery of my new pipe case. It is a 24" Heavy duty toolbag by Kanga with a nicely reinforced bottom. Such a case requires putting the pipes in protective tubes (drainpipe) but I have used a Kanga leather toolbag successfully for years. I cannot vouch for its longevity but it looks good. It has attachment points for a shoulder strap. http://www.tilgear.info/products/1030/6019/kanga_heavy_duty_tool_bag_24andqu ot/ At less than ten UK pounds it seems like good value and it is an excellent toolshop. Carriage is extra. Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2799 - Release Date: 04/08/10 19:32:00
[NSP] Re: NSP duet with other instruments
As Matt has said pipes/fiddle duets (and combinations of pipe/fiddle with other instruments) are ''not at all unusual '' and the various people mentioned especially the High Level Ranters as Colin R has pointed out pioneered in this. I have played duets (and in bands) with a fiddler (Peter French though unfortunately he's still based in Hong Kong and me in the Scottish Borders!) This type of duet (and playing in a small band), though hard work is for me one of the most satisfying ways to use the pipes. However it's surprisingly difficult to find interested fiddlers. The smallpipes we find most compatible are the D NSP and D SSP where chanters are easily interchangeable in performance and the latter are excellent for playing in G. Also the ability to pick up the Border pipes is great when the ''folk band'' shifts up into ceilidh band mode. As for John's mention of A SSP's these pipes are (unfortunately?) by far the most prevalent type of smallpipe adopted by Highland pipers, and can sound nice with a fiddle and there's a benefit to the fiddlers who can easily read Scottish pipe notation without transposing. Maybe its an advantage to play with a non-dot-reading fiddler who learns tunes primarily by ear, like Peter. Of course the type of pipes to employ when playing with other instrumentalists all depends on the context of performance. Bill (Currently recuperating having just had to play with band at 4 Burns Suppers unfortunately duties involving haggis-piping-in mode) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP Facebook group
Well it's an old photo. I don't use the "Up and Go's" anymore... you should see me in a kilt though :-) Bill - Original Message - From: Yes, Bill, that URL does work. And allow me to say that you may win some sort of award for "Most peculiar profile photo"! Alec To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP Facebook group
SighSorry about this.. I think this URL actually works. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=291889707722&ref=search&sid=695896937.2624794321..1 Bill - Original Message - From: "Bill Carr" To: Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [NSP] NSP Facebook group ... And let Bill Carr learn how to cut and paste URL's. Having trouble getting the correct link. http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/group.php?gid=291889707722 Bill To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP Facebook group
.. And let Bill Carr learn how to cut and paste URL's. Having trouble getting the correct link. http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/group.php?gid=291889707722 Bill To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP Facebook group
Welcome to the Northumbrian Pipers Facebook group. Highland pipers have an untold number of groups but as far as I know this is the first for NSP'ers. Lets use it to spread the word on this wonderful instrument. Please list your info, photos, videos and links related to the NSP. Lets make this a resource for those who play and those who might be motivated to take up the sweetest sounding bagpipe in the world. http://www.facebook.com/groups/edit.php?customize&gid=291889707722#!/group.php?gid=291889707722&ref=mf Bill Carr To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Trade D set for F set?
After a long break from NSP's I am getting back into it with a Colin Ross D set. However I find the finger spacing a bit wide and (unless I get used to it) will probably want to go back to an F or F# set eventually. If anyone would be interested in a trade, or part trade, then I would like to hear from you. The Ross set has a 7 key chanter, 4 drones each with tuning bead, and they are fully mounted, blackwood with silver and imitation ivory. Not sure if it's solid or silver plate though.. probably plated. Colin is currently making a new d drone reed for them. Otherwise they are in pristine condition. They were made around 2005 and have only been lightly played. I'm honestly not sure what they are worth so I might need some advice in that regard. I would only be interested in an F - F# set in top playing condition (I'd need to be convinced of that fact) as I don't want to have to fettle too much to get them going.. Been there, done that. Contact me right away or keep me in mind for later. I have photos I can send Cheers Bill Carr -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: the Guardian today....
Outstanding! I hope that I can get the employee discount... Bill - Original Message From: Anita Evans To: Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site Sent: Tue, January 26, 2010 6:02:25 AM Subject: [NSP] the Guardian today We're in trouble - according to a letter in the Guardian newspaper, BAE is 'racing to capture the domestic UK drones market' Anita -- Anita Evans To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Looking for other NSP players in Suffolk or East Anglia
Based on my experience I also have to agree with Matt. I have a D chanter and have played it iregularly over the years with a band which contains a fiddler, concertina player, and singer, (and also duets with a fiddler). D is a lovely pitch but only works up to a point because traditional instruments/musicians often need to play in G. Then I'm able to change chanters, and use the D chanter of my Scottish Smallpipes which accommodates many G tunes but takes on a different character. If you are really committed the ideal would be to own both D and G chanters. Bill -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Matt Seattle Sent: 12 August 2009 14:58 To: Gordon Brown Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Looking for other NSP players in Suffolk or East Anglia As a non-NSP player who does however play regularly with NSP players I would caution that a concert D set is NOT the obvious choice if you are playing with other instruments whose main keys are G and D. In terms of the range and key of many trad tunes played on other instruments with which you wish to play along, my experience tells me that you would be better off with a concert G set which plays easily in the keys of G and D - and has the notes equivalent to the fiddle's top string (e f# g a b) - rather than a concert D set which plays easily in the keys of D and A and only goes up to f# on the fiddle's top string. I would ask NSP players to comment on the above from their own experience. Matt Seattle On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:47 PM, Gordon Brown <[1]gor...@10db.co.uk> wrote: Many thanks to all who replied, I've given this lots of thought! I really am set on a concert D set of pipes as my primary aim is to play with the many melodeon players that I know and this rather fixes me in D, especially for the majority of the tunes I already play. I am also determined to sing with the pipes, although I acknowledge the potential problems with the strap. Although we have both a chromatic and FC autoharp, the majority of our instruments are DG diatonics or straight D diatonic (Gordon has converted two 'harps by scratch building complete chord bar assemblies for them). Before I finally decide to order a set, is there anyone on the list that may wish to part with a concert D set? I've bought 'harps this way before from another list, Cyberpluckers, and at least we knew the owner had a decent knowledge of the instrument otherwise they wouldn't have contributed to the list. I suspect that this goes double for this list! Alison -Original Message- From: [2]ross.ander...@cl.cam.ac.uk [mailto:[3]rossjander...@googlemail.com] Sent: 09 August 2009 17:30 To: Gordon Brown Cc: [4]...@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: [NSP] Looking for other NSP players in Suffolk or East Anglia To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:gor...@10db.co.uk 2. mailto:ross.ander...@cl.cam.ac.uk 3. mailto:rossjander...@googlemail.com 4. mailto:nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Raindrops or ?
Yes, it was Kathryn at a Hong Kong Folk festival concert who introduced a tune as ''Raindrops'' then played Bill Charltons. I never got round to asking her afterwords about the two names for the same tune! Bill -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb Sent: 03 June 2009 08:41 To: 'Dartmouth NPS'; The Red Goblin Subject: [NSP] Re: Raindrops or ? Steve, That seems about right. Some people (including Kathryn) do attribute the raindrops epithet to Bill Charlton's Fancy. Bill C. (who had a wallpaper shop in Bondgate Without, Alnwick when I first moved up) told me that he pestered Billy Pigg so much about the tune (regular phone calls to see how it was progressing and Billy playing the latest bit down the phone) it was named after him. No mention of raindrops! As aye Anthony --- On Wed, 3/6/09, The Red Goblin wrote: From: The Red Goblin Subject: [NSP] Re: Raindrops or ? To: "'Dartmouth NPS'" Date: Wednesday, 3 June, 2009, 8:28 AM Bill, Do you perhaps mean Archie's Fancy (AKA Tin Can Polka) which Billy Pigg reportedly wrote "in response to the behaviour of Fred Ord's two (then small) sons, who rushed about with tin cans attempting to catch the drips falling through the partly demolished Biddlestone Hall" ? Steve Collins > -Original Message- > From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]on > Behalf Of Bill Telfer > Sent: 03 June 2009 08:06 > To: 'Dartmouth NPS' > Subject: [NSP] Raindrops or ? > > > Is my memory playing tricks again, or am I right in thinking that at a > concert a few years ago a tune was announced to the audience as > ''Raindrops'' but to me it sounded like Bill Charlton's Fancy? > Bill > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://uk.mc862.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 2. http://uk.mc862.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Raindrops or ?
Is my memory playing tricks again, or am I right in thinking that at a concert a few years ago a tune was announced to the audience as ''Raindrops'' but to me it sounded like Bill Charlton's Fancy? Bill To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: smallpipes
Light relief. Looks like a Reid set? And Jack Armstrong must have taught him
something- he's got only one finger off!
I remember articles years ago in the society Magazine about Jack Armstrong's
visit to Hollywood, including speculation about Marylin Monroe and the
pipes..
As I recall some filming had taken place but never reached the screen.
Bill
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf
Of Ian Lawther
Sent: 27 May 2009 03:26
To: Adrian
Cc: nsp
Subject: [NSP] Re: smallpipes
Adrian wrote:
> What are the Northumberland bagpipes;what are they?
They are something extremely raremust be true - it says so here
http://pro.corbis.com/search/Enlargement.aspx?CID=isg&mediauid={8A307924-903
A-4ECE-ABF4-5C68EBAD5E6E}
Ian
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[NSP] Re: Latest
Just to make sure, again,-yes, count me in on this resolution Bill From: Anthony Robb [mailto:anth...@robbpipes.com] Sent: 23 May 2009 10:29 To: Chris Almond; Colin and; Neil Baker; NIGEL BARLOW; Nigel Barlow; Bill Bohill; Daphne Briggs; Steve Campbell; Helen Capes; Pauline Cato; Margaret Cato; colin; Dave Cook; Rick Damon; Dave McQuade; Richard&Anita Evans; Reg Flower; John Gibbons; John Gibbons; Gordon Greenley; Philip Gruar; Marianne Hall; Honor Hill; David Hillery; Nick Hopkinson; Simon James; Ian Lawther; Simon Leveaux; Alan McKenzie; Dave McQuade; Margaret Moyes; Adrian Scofield; Matt Seattle; Mike Sharp; Bill Telfer Subject: Latest Just to let everyone know what's happening. The submission for Julia will go off as soon as I'm confident that the people whose names appear are happy. Some have expressed opinions so clearly and I don't expect to hear further from them. If you are having doubts either way about the presence of your signature please get in touch no later than Tuesday 26th May. May I add that I am doing this with Colin's approval although he certainly did not instigate it. In my view the Society needs the involvement of the grandees such as Colin. To have him put out to pasture at this stage would be, I think, unwise and unjust. Here is what I hope to send to Julia next week: Julia Say Hon. Secretary Northumbrian Pipers' Society Dear Julia We the undersigned request that an Extraordinary general meeting of Society members be convened in order to consider the following motion: "Following strong dissatisfaction expressed by many members, this meeting proposes that the committee's choice of president be reconsidered, and mandates the committee to re-start the selection process, with nominations and voting facilities to be extended to the entire membership." Yours sincerely, Helen Capes Richard Evans Gordon Greenley Philip Gruar Paul Gretton Marianne Hall Simon James Ian Lawther Anthony Robb Adrian Schofield Matt Seattle Neil Tavernor -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NPS information
''She is a player of our pipes, and once declared them as her "luxury" item''. Were they bought on expenses? Bill -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Philip Gruar Sent: 17 May 2009 12:21 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: NPS information Shouldn't she be vetted by the anti-choyting police first? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: stiff fingers and aging
Excellent post from Dick. Ever since the stiffening of aging fingers was mentioned, I think by Anthony, it has been on my mind, especially now that I'm 65 and am probably losing some agility in my fingers but not acutely, yet. I have suffered for years from a bit of arthritis, affecting one hip and a tendency to experience lower back trouble but these ailments are responsive to well-known common sense behavural therapies. Eg for my stiff hip at least, riding a bike just to get around, (ie not particularly for leisure or sport), is marvellous therapy as well as great for general health and fitness. And for the lower back- taking care never to spend long periods sitting or standing and handling for all the bending I'm going to have to deal with when I really get started on the garden this spring ! As for fingers I suppose through laziness I've never really performed exercises consistently such as those Dick advocates but try to play for even a short time every day and certainly notice the loss of fingering agility if not doing so but I guess this is the case at any age. But the issue is when can expect this process to really accelerate and be prepared to accept it. The ''old guys'' have been mentioned and I'm wondering exactly how old were Joe Hutton, Willie Taylor and Will Atkinson when they seem to have experienced some prominence, recording as The Shepherds etc. Were they much 'better' when they were younger? Also I'm trying to remember the details of story I read recently about the very well-known musician who at an advanced age has apparently renewed some of his failed abilities (pianist, violinist?) and has this been due to some new therapy, or surgery...I forget-my brain is failing earlier than the fingers (so far) in my encroaching dotage! Hope others can cast more light on this issue. Bill -Original Message- From: Richard Hensold [mailto:hens...@world.oberlin.edu] Sent: 27 March 2009 05:11 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] stiff fingers and aging I was apparently doing something else for the last couple hundred messages, so am only now getting into the discussion... What interested me were the comments about fingers stiffening with age. I'm only 50, but my fingering has improved steadily (that is, way too slowly) as long as I've been playing. At what age have people noticed it starting to go the other way? Is it possible to rule out inefficient practicing/warm-ups? I also wonder if the British climate is a factor, because my fingers have felt unusually stiff when practicing in Northumberland. Are there any (especially older) players who have lived in both Northumberland and North America that can comment on this? Or for that matter, is there anyone familiar with medical statistics who knows if arthritis or other joint problems are more prevalent in Britain than N America? Dick HensoldSt. Paul, MN 651/646-6581 Traditional Folk Music, Early Music, and Cambodian Music Northumbrian smallpipes, recorder, Medieval greatpipes,Swedish sackpipa, & beyaw. [1]www.dickhensold.com -- References 1. http://www.dickhensold.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Maggie Lauder article online
Matt, Brilliant. thanks Bill -Original Message- From: Matt Seattle [mailto:theborderpi...@googlemail.com] Sent: 09 February 2009 12:53 To: nsp; bellowspipes; scots_music Subject: [NSP] Maggie Lauder article online A new article on Maggie Lauder, with sheet music and basic midi playback, is now online at the LBPS website, thanks to heroic webwork by Anita Evans. It should be of interest to Uilleann, Northumbrian and Border pipers as well as fiddlers and others. http://lbps.net/MaggieLauder/index.html Hope you enjoy it It joins its companion article on Rattlin Roarin Willie: http://lbps.net/RRW/index.htm Cheers Matt _ http://theborderpiper.co.uk http://borderdirectors.com http://myspace.com/mattseattleband To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Copyright issues
''All agree it is far too complicated - and set up to favour the commercial music industry.'' And lawyers? Bill To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Prints of pipers
Ref mistakes in pictorial depictions of pipers . As someone mentioned earlier ''There are also examples in Hugh Cheape's recent book about bagpipes.'' I haven't read Hugh Cheape's book but quite a few years ago he had an article published in the LBPS magazine, Common Stock highlighting the many examples of errors made by artists, lithographers, printers etc so I expect the new book will further amplify this. Few pipers ''choose'' to play with the bag under the right arm. And note that the vast majority of people who ride a bicycle mount and dismount and, especially, when walking along pushing the bike beside them do so on the left. (Maybe its the same with horse-riders?). Anyway do we know why this is the ''natural'' way to do it? Bill To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Etymology of the 'C' word - 2
Completely off-topic to this thread but something slightly curious came up- After reading the link to the book quoted by Philip I browsed some of the other piping books listed at Amazon. Relating to Hugh Cheape's ''The Book of the Bagpipe'' found a bit of blurb mentioning ''...the Bagpipes Museum in Glasgow, the only specialist museum of its kind in the world''. I'd be surprised if the admirable Hugh Cheape overlooked or denigrated the Morpeth Chantry museum- surely another '' only specialist museum of its kind in the world'' ! Bill -Original Message- From: Philip Gruar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 16 September 2008 23:15 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Etymology of the 'C' word - 2 Chris wrote: >I understand what you're saying, Matt, but I don't think comparison >with the GHB tradition is directly relevant. An extremely interesting posting, Chris. Gets right to the heart of the contoversy. VERY true that NSP is not "folk music" - or at least not "folk music" as patronisingly named by the educated classes who dismissed non-classical traditions as either charmingly naive or rough and coarse. That attitude didn't die out with the Victorians either - plenty of inverted snobbery in the 60's folk revival too, which still lives on. All through this debate I've been meaning to recommend an excellent book I bought on the Cal-Mac ferry to the Outer Hebrides this so-called "Summer" (!) - "Pipers" by William Donaldson, subtitled "A guide to the players and music of the Highland Bagpipe" http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pipers-Guide-Players-Highland-Bagpipe/dp/1841584118/ ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221599969&sr=1-4 Very relevant to a lot that's been said in this debate re. the standards of musicianship and technical skill achieved in a "traditional" (but NOT "folk") instrument, rules about style, traditional teaching of advanced techniques, and the imposition of ways of playing, both by good players who know the tradition and so could be considered to have the right to - but also by the gentlemen amateurs who had the power to impose the rules, but were in fact quite ignorant of the music. And the huge gulf that exists between the way the music is perceived by the general public, and by the players and cognoscenti. Altogether a fascinating read, and in the light of all this talk of maintaining the true tradition via competition rules etc., Yes it IS a very relevant comparison with NSP. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: tchuning
>So they carry you by the ears in your part of the world eh?< Maybe they do, wherever it is. Something like that might be appropriate. Lugs (the kind attached to either side of a human head) can be put to various uses. In the town where I live miscreants are threatened with having their lugs nailed to the tron (public weigh beam in the market place). A proclamation is made by the Toun Crier (standing on the back of a horse) in the Mercat Place (this happens anually on the last Friday in July, the Common Riding day). The proclamation includes this warning about public behaviour at the Summer, or Lamb Fair:- '' a' land-loupers, and dub-scoupers, and gae-by-the-gate sweengers, that come here to breed hurdums or durdums, huliments or buliments, hagglements or bragglements, or to molest this public Fair,they shall be ta'en by order of the Bailie and the Toun Cooncil, and their lugs be nailed to the Tron wi' a twalpenny nail, and they shall sit doun on their bare knees and pray seeven times for the King and thrice for the Muckle Laird o' Ralton, and pay a groat tae mei, Jamie Ferguson, Bailie o' the aforesaid Manor, and I'll awa hame and hae a barly Bannock and a saut herring tae ma denner by way o' auld style.'' Bill To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re-Tune title spelling
> variation usually >occurs through verbal propagation I'm sure this is true but there are also instances of deliberate spelling changes by educated literate people, the reasons for which seem obscure. Eg The engineer Thomas Telford born in 1757 for some unnaccountable reason changed his own name from Telfer, the name under which he was born. He even went to the extent of retrospectively changing his father's name, John Telfer, to Telford when, (having first trained as a stonemason) he carved his father's headstone ''In memory of John Telford, who died after living 33 years an unblameable shepherd.'' Incidentally nowadays new ways might arise in which spelling could happen- books now being re-published online sometimes littered with ''errors'' evidently arising purely out of the scanning process. I mention this only because just noticing, (looking at the biography of Telford written by Samuel Smiles and now published online), a reference to Sir Waiter(sic) Scott. Bill To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Newcastleton festival - 5 July
I've tried to forward Juila's message to the LBPS committee in hope they might be able to promote the Border Piping at Newcastelton, but lbps.net seems to be 'down'. Maybe Anita can advise on this? It'll be a shame if the piping is discontinued. If there is any such intention please keep me advised as I could try locally to think up some way of rescuing at least the Border piping even if the NPS involvement were to stop and even although of late the Border piping seems to have been even less supported than the Nortumbrian smallpipes competitions. I do remember back in the mid 80s lots of Border/SSP entrants. Despite faltering of the piping I think this Traditional Music Festival itself is still very popular and reasonably secure -they even have a website now! Last year, visiting again after many years the village was packed for the weekend, and the whole place had that great atmosphere as mentioned by Philip, lots of sessions continuing thro the night etc. So the NSP contingent might not always be aware of this overall picture of the festival if the Northumbrian-based pipers go home immediately after the competition (hot-trodding back over the Border for their tea)? Liddesdale seems remote, but that's part of its charm, redolent of the reiving days and debateable land etc. Bill -Original Message- From: Philip Gruar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 June 2008 15:15 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Newcastleton festival - 5 July Thanks for the reminder, Julia. Unfortunately we can't go that weekend, but I'd second your encouragement for more pipers to go there. We went for the first (and I'm afraid only) time a few years ago - a beautiful place, lovely weather (not like today just here!!) and a really good atmosphere, good music and friendly feel. It's a small enough town to feel as if the music festival is the only thing happening there - in fact there was also a tongue-in-cheek Border Common Riding - on bikes, which added to the fun. Plenty of Highland pipers, fiddles and accordions around, so they definitely need more Northumbrian and Border pipers. Philip - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 11:34 AM Subject: [NSP] Newcastleton festival - 5 July > The piping competitions at this event need your support. > Unless there is a better turnout than last year, they will probably > be discontinued. The program for nsp / BP players goes: > > 13.30 Workshop for nsp in F pitch - Nick Leeming > 14.30 Comps: (judge - Nick) > > nsp Novice: Two tunes, one slow. one faster. > Intermed: Two tunes of contrasting rhythms > Open: Three tunes, including key change. One slow air + 2 of march, > jig, reel, hornpipe, rant etc - one tune to have variations > > Emphasis on Northumbrian repertoire in all classes > > Border pipe novice: Two tunes, one slow, one quicker > Border Open: Three tunes, one slow, one to have variations. > > Emphasis on Border repertoire and style. SSP acceptable but pipes > must be bellows blown > > Followed by session for nsp in F, until everyone gets bored or > wanders off for tea/ alcoholic beverage > > (All in Buccleuch centre unless they've changed it - ask atr the > office) > > Festival website with directions: www.newcastleton.com > > Please pass on to anyone you think might be interested. > > See you there. > > Julia > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > >
[NSP] Re: Rattlin Roarin Willy
Richard wrote: >Matt Seattle has produced a very detailed study of this tune and it's >history, including written music and midi files for many versions. >It's online on the Lowland and Borders Pipers Society website (www.lbps.net) And a magnificent piece of work it is: Matt's excavation of the historical facts around Willie's life is as riveting as the musical archaeology - perhaps especially evocative for those of us living on the A7 through the Borders with its '' history redolent of Bob Dylans Highway 61'' . Great stuff Matt! Bill To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: OT Humphrey Littleton
>I always wish they'd tried The Wild Rover to the tune of Nights In White >Satin! Or maybe Night in Tunisia Bill - Original Message - From: "Ian Lawther" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Nsp@Cs.Dartmouth.Edu" Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 12:38 AM Subject: [NSP] OT Humphrey Littleton >I have just read on the Guardian website that Humphrey Littleton has died. >I, for one, will miss him as an essential part of the quirky humour of I'm >Sorry I'll Read That Again and my only reason for posting about it here is >that this group has occasionally slipped into online NSP versions of "Late >Arrivals..." and "Mornington Crescent" which have made me nostalgic for >home and has confused the hell out of North American members of the list. >For me that was always a sign that many of those who share my interest in >Northumbrian pipes also share my enjoyment of British radio humour and an >important link with home. > > Thanks to those of you who played those games, > > Ian Lawther > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[NSP] Re: Flowers of the Forest
And remarkably, the modern version of Wikipedia has a p and Flowers has an
s. sorry everybody:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowers_of_the_Forest
Bill
-Original Message-
From: Bill Telfer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 06 April 2008 12:40
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Matt Seattle; NSP group
Subject: [NSP] Re: Flowers of the Forest
Matt wrote:
>As I understand it - and I haven't researched this extensively - there
>are 2 main versions, one is very old and much simpler than the rest,
>and is from a 1600s Scottish mandour tablature book. It's recorded by
>Rob MacKillop on mandour on his Greentrax album called - Flowers of
>the Forest. I think it's also this version ('The Liltin') that's
>played by the brass band at the Selkirk Common Riding.
Yes 'The Liltin' as it is known in Selkirk is the ancient, simple and very
beautiful, poignant tune played by the Selkirk Silver Band at the climax of
the Common Riding after the ''casting of the colours''. (By co-incident I
played the video to Matt on Thursday). The tune is pretty well as it is
written in Alastair Macrae's article (''Illustration 1 in the last
magazine vol 28 2007).
But the best information about all of this is in Wikipedia
http://en.wikidedia.org/wiki/Flower_of_the_Forest
This shows the manuscript of the Skene Manuscript c.1615-25 plus an mp3
recording of it played on an early clarsach. Again and rather remarkably,
this is what you hear played by the Selkirk Silver Band in the Market Place
on the CR day.
As Wikipedia mentions the more modern version of the tune is also played as
a march earlier in the procession at Selkirk. (Similarly at Langholm
Common Riding).
As for what Julia wrote about the GHB tune:
>... It was a Border tune, and a ballad / song, long
>before the modern form of it was adapted (bodged, in fact) for the
>GHB. Using the modern GHB pipe march as a basis would be the worst
>possible option.
>Its a good tune which doesn't have to be linked to funerals, though I
>appreciate it often is.
To my knowledge it's never played as a ''march'' by Highland pipers. It's
only ever played as a lament and by a solo piper solo at funerals and
memorial services.
As Wikidedia says ''due to the content of the lyrics and the reverence for
the tune, it is one of the few tunes that many pipers will only perform at
funerals or memorial services, and only practiced in private or to instruct
other pipers.''
In this light Barry might have a point where he writes:
>in this particular case
>I think we should look to the 'official' (military?) Scottish version
>and publish that.( stripping all the grace notes).
However I find the ancient tune, 'The Liltin' so fascinating and remarkable
I'd like to hear it more often sung and played. I cant at the moment lay my
hands on the album with Ray singing accompanied by Colin (on an open-ended
NSP chanter) but as I recall its basically the more modern version of the
tune, but with the Jean Elliot's 'Liltin' lyrics. Often even local singers
in the Borders tend to sing the Alison Cockburn lyrics ''I've seen the
smiling of fortune beguiling''. Indeed I've never heard it sung to the
ancient tune, or even if it can be sung using either the Elliot or
Cockburn lyrics. Maybe singers (or Selkirk native) could advise. Certainly
again Wiki must be right, the original words have been lost.
Bill
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 06 April 2008 10:51
To: Matt Seattle; NSP group
Subject: [NSP] Re: Flowers of the Forest
On 5 Apr 2008, Matt Seattle wrote:
> I think this is the Scots Musical Museum version, located from JC's
> tune finder http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/tmp/Tune078862.gif it's in B
> flat rather than A flat,
Thanks, Matt. I didn't want to fork out all this year's birthday
money on a copy if I can avoid it.
The transcription has a couple of anomalous bar lengths, so to be
handled with a little caution.
I think the peculiar time intervals on postings may have been my ISP
(tiscali), since downloading web pages and mail last evening was
moving at the speed of a glacier before global warming.
Obviously (to get back to Flowers of the Forest) I'm in a minority,
and the time sig is C or 4/4. I'll have to try playing it with a
metronome to "get it".
All info still welcome!
Cheers
Julia
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Flowers of the Forest
Matt wrote:
>As I understand it - and I haven't researched this extensively - there
>are 2 main versions, one is very old and much simpler than the rest,
>and is from a 1600s Scottish mandour tablature book. It's recorded by
>Rob MacKillop on mandour on his Greentrax album called - Flowers of
>the Forest. I think it's also this version ('The Liltin') that's
>played by the brass band at the Selkirk Common Riding.
Yes 'The Liltin' as it is known in Selkirk is the ancient, simple and very
beautiful, poignant tune played by the Selkirk Silver Band at the climax of
the Common Riding after the ''casting of the colours''. (By co-incident I
played the video to Matt on Thursday). The tune is pretty well as it is
written in Alastair Macrae's article (''Illustration 1 in the last
magazine vol 28 2007).
But the best information about all of this is in Wikipedia
http://en.wikidedia.org/wiki/Flower_of_the_Forest
This shows the manuscript of the Skene Manuscript c.1615-25 plus an mp3
recording of it played on an early clarsach. Again and rather remarkably,
this is what you hear played by the Selkirk Silver Band in the Market Place
on the CR day.
As Wikipedia mentions the more modern version of the tune is also played as
a march earlier in the procession at Selkirk. (Similarly at Langholm
Common Riding).
As for what Julia wrote about the GHB tune:
>... It was a Border tune, and a ballad / song, long
>before the modern form of it was adapted (bodged, in fact) for the
>GHB. Using the modern GHB pipe march as a basis would be the worst
>possible option.
>Its a good tune which doesn't have to be linked to funerals, though I
>appreciate it often is.
To my knowledge it's never played as a ''march'' by Highland pipers. It's
only ever played as a lament and by a solo piper solo at funerals and
memorial services.
As Wikidedia says ''due to the content of the lyrics and the reverence for
the tune, it is one of the few tunes that many pipers will only perform at
funerals or memorial services, and only practiced in private or to instruct
other pipers.''
In this light Barry might have a point where he writes:
>in this particular case
>I think we should look to the 'official' (military?) Scottish version
>and publish that.( stripping all the grace notes).
However I find the ancient tune, 'The Liltin' so fascinating and remarkable
I'd like to hear it more often sung and played. I cant at the moment lay my
hands on the album with Ray singing accompanied by Colin (on an open-ended
NSP chanter) but as I recall its basically the more modern version of the
tune, but with the Jean Elliot's 'Liltin' lyrics. Often even local singers
in the Borders tend to sing the Alison Cockburn lyrics ''I've seen the
smiling of fortune beguiling''. Indeed I've never heard it sung to the
ancient tune, or even if it can be sung using either the Elliot or
Cockburn lyrics. Maybe singers (or Selkirk native) could advise. Certainly
again Wiki must be right, the original words have been lost.
Bill
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 06 April 2008 10:51
To: Matt Seattle; NSP group
Subject: [NSP] Re: Flowers of the Forest
On 5 Apr 2008, Matt Seattle wrote:
> I think this is the Scots Musical Museum version, located from JC's
> tune finder http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/tmp/Tune078862.gif it's in B
> flat rather than A flat,
Thanks, Matt. I didn't want to fork out all this year's birthday
money on a copy if I can avoid it.
The transcription has a couple of anomalous bar lengths, so to be
handled with a little caution.
I think the peculiar time intervals on postings may have been my ISP
(tiscali), since downloading web pages and mail last evening was
moving at the speed of a glacier before global warming.
Obviously (to get back to Flowers of the Forest) I'm in a minority,
and the time sig is C or 4/4. I'll have to try playing it with a
metronome to "get it".
All info still welcome!
Cheers
Julia
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: old Towler
Nice one Chris. Looking forward to hearing you play tomorrow night at the Heart of Hawick concert. Bill -Original Message- From: Chris Ormston [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12 December 2007 20:20 To: nsp Subject: [NSP] Re: old Towler While this is written in straight jig time, it's much more effective played in a 'dotted' manner. Also, make sure the dotted crotchets are given their full value. Tom Clough's advice to sing the song in your head is relevant here to help with the phrasing. Ooops, sorry! Got the Champion of Champions at Bellingham mixed up with Crufts - sorry to interrupt the doggy talk ;-) Chris - Original Message - From: "Ged Foxe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 5:48 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: old Towler Maybe, or else related to Towser, also a common name for a dog. Towser is originally rough-haired (as tousled) or, as implied in Dictionnaire Royal Anglois-Francois 1768, a turbulent or nosy person. Jeremy - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 4:10 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: old Towler > My 1994 OED has: > towl v. dial. > To yowl. > The two examples of use are from 1906 (Kipling, Puck of Pook's Hill), and > a Punch article of 1930. > > So, a noisy hound then. > > Pedantically, > > Richard Leach > > On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 02:05:19PM -, Colin has written: >> Oh, as a PS, this is from thefreedictionary.com >> Jowl´er >> n. 1. (Zool.) A dog with large jowls, as the beagle. >> >> Colin Hill >> - Original Message - >> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "Dru Brooke-Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Cc: "nsp" >> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 6:36 PM >> Subject: [NSP] Re: old Towler >> >> >> > What does the word "towler" mean? I've looked it up on a couple of >> > on-line Scots and Geordie dictionaries, but found nothing. For me the >> > tune title conjures up an image of an oldster wrapped in a soggy towel >> > having just emerged from his bath. I'm happy to replace it with that >> > of a >> > beagle or stag hound leaping over hill and dale. >> > >> > John >> > >> > >> > >> > Dru Brooke-Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > 12/11/2007 10:20 AM >> > >> > To >> > nsp >> > cc >> > >> > Subject >> > [NSP] old Towler >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Oh dear. This is embarrassing. >> > >> > I hadn't thought of checking the words. As this song is linked in my >> > mind, rightly or wrongly, with Yorkshire, I'd taken for granted Old >> > Towler pursued foxes. >> > >> > Dru >> > >> > >> > On 11 Dec 2007, at 15:39, Colin wrote: >> > >> > > Er, a little more than implied. The last line of the chorus is "This >> > > day a >> > > stag must die" which is then repeated.(I have been singing it for >> > > over >> > > 30 >> > > years anyway). >> > > Colin Hill >> > > >> > > - Original Message - >> > > From: "Ged Foxe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > > To: "nsp" ; "Dru Brooke-Taylor" >> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 9:08 PM >> > > Subject: [NSP] Re: old Towler >> > > >> > > >> > >> I've missed the beginning of this thread, I think, so this may have >> > > already >> > >> been refuted, but the song implies that Old Towler was a stag hound. >> > >> >> > >> Jeremy >> > >> >> > >> - Original Message - >> > >> From: "Dru Brooke-Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > >> To: "nsp" >> > >> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 7:20 PM >> > >> Subject: [NSP] Re: old Towler >> > >> >> > >> >> > >>> Old Towler was indeed a fox hound. Hence the wintry connection. >> > >>> >> > >>> Dru >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> On 7 Dec 2007, at 17:31, Marianne Hall wrote: >> > >>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> I always though Old Towler was a fox hound. We learn something new >> > > every >> > >>>> day>Marianne. >> > >>>> -- >> > >>>> >> > >>>> To get on or off this list see list information at >> > >>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> > >>>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> -- >> This email has been verified as Virus free >> Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net > > -- > Richard A Leach | Why look through windows when you can walk through > gates? > The great little festival -- http://www.PennineSpringMusic.co.uk > A Centre of Excellence for Domestic Information Technology Solutions > 5344.9735,N,00201.2268,W,263.0 > >
[NSP] Re: 11 key, Evans G set for sale
These pipes are now sold. Thanks for all the inquiries. Bill Carr - Original Message - From: "Bill Carr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 4:39 PM Subject: [NSP] 11 key, Evans G set for sale > I'm selling my 11 key, Evans G set of NSP's in favour of an F set which I > find much easier to play with my thick stumpy fingers. It's a lovely set > in > african blackwood and brass. In perfect playing condition. Asking 1950 > Euros > plus shipping (convert to your currency at (www.xe.om). > > If anyone is interested then I'm sure we can agree on price and terms. > There > is a case and a spare new chanter reed included. Photos below. I am in > Norway. They will be shipped very carefully packed and protected. > > Bill Carr > > > http://sekkepipenorge.com/gnsp1.JPG > > http://sekkepipenorge.com/gnsp2.JPG > > > http://sekkepipenorge.com/gnsp3.JPG > > http://sekkepipenorge.com/gnsp4.JPG > > http://sekkepipenorge.com/gnsp5.JPG > > http://sekkepipenorge.com/gnsp6.JPG > > http://sekkepipenorge.com/gnsp7.JPG > > http://sekkepipenorge.com/gnsp8.JPG > > http://sekkepipenorge.com/gnsp9.JPG > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > >
[NSP] Re: Second hand burleigh pipes
>From another learner who has done a lot of research into buying used NSP's. Find out if they have the original cane drone reeds or if they have been replaced with composite. Composite reeds would be a better buy. As a beginner myself I don't think cane drone reeds are the best without the support of someone who can deal with them. The price is pretty close to that of a new set so you are really only saving on the delivery time. They might be all finely tweaked and in good playing order or the previous owner might have messed around with them so much that they need attention. He could be selling them out of frustration from not being able to get them going. You should really find out which is the case. Bill - Original Message - From: "Bos, Guido" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 1:09 PM Subject: [NSP] Second hand burleigh pipes > Hello, > > I ran across someone selling his 7 key, 4 drone Burleigh Northumbrian > smallpipes. > Can someone tell me if 430 UKP is a fair price? > As I am a starter with no experience in pipes and NSP's are very rare > over here in Belgium, could any of you give me some advice where I > should pay attention to in order to detect malfunction a.o. before > buying the instrument. > > Kind Regards, > Guido Bos > Belgium > > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > >
[NSP] Re: NSP (still) Wanted please-o-please-o-please.
My G set is by Evans too. Bill - Original Message - From: "Bill Carr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: ; "The Irish Flute Store" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: NSP (still) Wanted please-o-please-o-please. >I have an 11 key G set that I have been learning on for a few months but >find the tight finger spacing too much (too little actually). Moving to an >F set, which is on order. I will probably sell the G's but am reluctant to >do so before my F set is ready. That might be a while yet. > > On another subject. I have a set of Burlieghs in D that need reeds for > both chanter and drones. Can anyone help me with these? I'll pay any > price, (within reason), to get them fast. I don't want cane drone reeds > > > Bill Carr > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP (still) Wanted please-o-please-o-please.
I have an 11 key G set that I have been learning on for a few months but find the tight finger spacing too much (too little actually). Moving to an F set, which is on order. I will probably sell the G's but am reluctant to do so before my F set is ready. That might be a while yet. On another subject. I have a set of Burlieghs in D that need reeds for both chanter and drones. Can anyone help me with these? I'll pay any price, (within reason), to get them fast. I don't want cane drone reeds Bill Carr - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: ; "The Irish Flute Store" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 10:17 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP (still) Wanted please-o-please-o-please. > On 7 Jul 2006, The Irish Flute Store wrote: > >> Anyone have an NSP set available? I'm in the market. >> I would really like an Evans set in F or G. > > Patrick: > > The nsp world is largely a sellers market. The main two places that > sets come up these days are the NPS newsletter (there are 4 in the > latest issue, tho' at least one is already sold), and ebay, about > which all I wish to say is "caveat emptor", since I have seen sets on > there whose owners obviously have very over-inflated ideas of their > value when in indifferent condition. > > You are most unlikely to come across a G set, since they are about as > common as hens teeth, and their owners hang on to them. > And restricting yourself to a single preferred maker is going to make > your wait very, very, long. > > However I wish you luck > > Julia > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > >
[NSP] Re: NSP Birl?
Well I don't know but is the subtle ridicule necessary? It was an sincere question from someone who is making an effort to learn the pipes and doesn't have contact with experienced pipers other than through internet. I'm not qualified to make opinion on the subject. I wouldn't even be considered a Northumbrian pipers bootlace yet... but I'm working on it. Anyway, I think the answer might be "No!" on both of my original questions. 1 - Do any of you NSP'ers who also play Scottish pipes use the Birl on the NSP?. Apparently not. 2 - Is it more accepted to do stuff like that in Northumbrian piping?.. Apparently not. Thanks :) Bill Carr (Crawling back into his hole) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP Birl?
Hi Sam. The "tap drag" or "double tap" birl works but there is not enough room to do the "figure 7" birl. Well actually I can do the "figure 7" too but I have a deformed hand from an accident a few years ago, which allows me to do that. I totally agree with you on the uniqueness of the NSP sound and I am being very particular about getting the traditional style basics down and sticking to them. The birl just sort of slipped out and I liked it. It's not actually a birl in the real sense because of the closed chanter. The popping effect is similar though. I thought I might try to record it and post a link to the MP3 file.. but I'm sure everyone knows what I'm on about anyway. Cheers Bill - Original Message - From: "Sam Edwards" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Bill Carr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 5:56 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: NSP Birl? > Hi Bill, > > How you can get a birl out within the tight finger hole spacing of the G > chanter is remarkable, as I find the F chanter which is longer than the G, > too cramped to execute the birl or any of the other complex ornaments that > I > love to execute on my Scottish pipes. It is enough for me to make sure I > have only one finger or key raised at a time in keeping with the closed > chanter playing style, and to appreciate the wonderful percussive popping > effects that distinguishes NSP chanter from the Scottish ones. > > Cheers, > Sam > -Original Message- > From: Bill Carr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 10:59 AM > To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: [NSP] NSP Birl? > > > From Bill Carr > Mysen - Norway > > > My first post here in a long time... I asked this on the Dunsire forums > but > thought maybe I would get a broader response here. > > > I am fairly new to the NSP but have been a very active ghb player for 13 > years. I am currently playing a G set and working through John Liestmans > book. The tune I am working on now is Lambs Skinnet. When I came to the > long > G notes at the end of the second part I automatically did a birl (from > highland technique). It felt natural to put one in there and I think it > sounded pretty neat. I was just wondering. > > 1 - Do any of you NSP'ers who also play Scottish pipes use the Birl on the > NSP? > > 2 - If you did something unorthodox like that in highland piping circles > you > would probably get some crass comments from the conservative corner > (including myself). Is it more accepted to do stuff like that in > Northumbrian piping? > > Cheers > > > > Bill Carr > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > >
[NSP] NSP Archive?
Is there such a thing and archive of previous posts to the NSP group? It would be invaluable for a remote learner like myself. Cheers Bill Carr -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP Birl?
>From Bill Carr Mysen - Norway My first post here in a long time... I asked this on the Dunsire forums but thought maybe I would get a broader response here. I am fairly new to the NSP but have been a very active ghb player for 13 years. I am currently playing a G set and working through John Liestmans book. The tune I am working on now is Lambs Skinnet. When I came to the long G notes at the end of the second part I automatically did a birl (from highland technique). It felt natural to put one in there and I think it sounded pretty neat. I was just wondering. 1 - Do any of you NSP'ers who also play Scottish pipes use the Birl on the NSP? 2 - If you did something unorthodox like that in highland piping circles you would probably get some crass comments from the conservative corner (including myself). Is it more accepted to do stuff like that in Northumbrian piping? Cheers Bill Carr -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
