Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
No. They just want to prevent it from continuing. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - But, can they go actually go after products that use only the SRD instead of the RSRD? Paul [input] They're clearly gearing up to go after products titled D20 X. ___Ogf-l mailing [EMAIL PROTECTED]://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l = BORGSTROM'S FIRST LAW (of Game Design): If you want to emphasize something, make sure everyone knows that they shouldn't have anything to do with it. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
My reasonable man's presumption is d20 (when used a trademark) means any usage where d20 is effectively shorthand or an abbreviation for d20 System. -- which is a registered trademark. This certainly doesn't seem out of line. I have a question so basic that I'm almost embarrassed to ask it: Are people operating under the D20STL are allowed to use d20 System on their products? If I follow correctly, the whole point of WotC declaring the term PI is to prohibit people from using the term as OGC while not following the rules for the D20STL. Regards, Alan H. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
RE: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
I had a look at the 3.5 bundle and it does not contain the new 3.5 stuff. The tell tail sign is that the ranger still has d10 hit dice. Best get the individual files methinks. They are up to date as far as I can tell. M:) ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
On 22 Jul 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] scribbled a note about Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly): I'd say that it's a pretty smart thing to do. If you have a wide reaching PI declaration that covers a lot of your important PI then you can use that PI declaration again and again and it'll protect you from inadvertently leaving out a PI declaration on one of your important characters, phrases, or marks. Now here is a thought. What is to stop somebody from using BOTH the 3.0 SRD and the 3.5 SRD (i.e. claiming them in the Section 15 of their OGL). Since d20 was apparently not PI in the 3.0 SRD, this would appear to allow them to use it. How would using two sources, with conflicting PI work anyways? --- Additionally, I have been thinking about the post that asked how you close something after you open it. I think that he has a point here. d20 as an individual term/phrase has been opened. That has then spread through a number of other OGL products. WOTC cannot decide to close it later on. They can decide to use their own PI in non-open products, but I really do not think that they can close something once they have opened it. TANSTAAFL Rasyr (Tim Dugger) System Editor Iron Crown Enterprises - http://www.ironcrown.com E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
At 7:36 -0500 7/22/03, Eric Baierl wrote: But you're right, taken at face value, you can't so much as refer to roll Strength + d20 without infringing. -- woodelf* But you could refer to roll Strength + 1d20 which is what most non-d20 companies do anyway (or 1D20) So when they claim Peaceable Kingdoms of Arcadia as PI, you can still use Really Peaceable Kingdoms of Arcadia ok? -- woodelf* [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://webpages.charter.net/woodelph/ The Laws of Anime http://www.abcb.com/laws/index.htm: #8 Second Law of Temporal Mortality It takes some time for bad guys to die... regardless of physical damage. Even when the 'Bad Guys' are killed so quickly they didn't even see it coming, it takes them a while to realize they are dead. This is attributed to the belief that being evil damages the Reality Lobe of the brain. ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
At 7:36 -0500 7/22/03, Eric Baierl wrote: But you're right, taken at face value, you can't so much as refer to "roll Strength + d20" without infringing. -- woodelf * But you could refer to "roll Strength + 1d20" which is what most non-d20 companies do anyway (or 1D20) So when they claim "Peaceable Kingdoms of Arcadia" as PI, you can still use "Really Peaceable Kingdoms of Arcadia" ok? The difference between d20 and 1d20 is numeric character. The difference in your example is a word added to a phrase. Say for example I say "the" is PI, and its all legit for this purpose. You couldn't use "the" in any way, but you could use "them", "there", "they" etc. The reason they probably added d20 to PI is so that companies aren't claiming that their games are compatable with d20, d20-based, or any other phrases like that, without having to also adhere to the d20 logo liscense. I'd be suprised if they told someone that they couldn't say a weapon does 1d20 damage. And anyway, games have long used the number d number to tell readers how many dice, and how many sides on those dice to use. Saying roll Strength + d20 doesn't say how many d20's to roll. baierlMSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
[Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
Don't know if their web-staff jumped the gun, or if it's just up nice and early, but the 3.5 SRD is up on WotC's website. More after I digest it--but on first looks, I must say that I am very impressed with it. Still RTF, but with real tables--and monster descriptions. Andy, if you're still on the list--you rock! DM ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
From: Doug Meerschaert [EMAIL PROTECTED] Don't know if their web-staff jumped the gun, or if it's just up nice and early, but the 3.5 SRD is up on WotC's website. Wow, talk about a different definition of midnight! ;) That must have just hit, I just double checked the SRD there with the Mind Flayer thread on DND-L earlier. Oh well, thanks for the heads up I grabbed it before it gets, umm, fanboyed? -Damian ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
From: Doug Meerschaert [EMAIL PROTECTED] More after I digest it--but on first looks, I must say that I am very impressed with it. Still RTF, but with real tables--and monster descriptions. Tables and monster descriptions?? I know I'm looking at the 3.5 SRD, but I'm not seeing any of those things. Can you give me some examples? -Damian ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
RE: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
Thanks, Doug. The web team didn't jump the gun, I just forgot that we had said it would be up within a few days of the book's release. Let's just blame that on burnout from working on the SRD for a month straight. After I was reminded of our promised release date I begged to have it pushed forward. Looks like it worked. Andy Smith Publishing/d20 Licensing Wizards of the Coast, Inc. -Original Message- From: Doug Meerschaert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 2:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly) Don't know if their web-staff jumped the gun, or if it's just up nice and early, but the 3.5 SRD is up on WotC's website. More after I digest it--but on first looks, I must say that I am very impressed with it. Still RTF, but with real tables--and monster descriptions. Andy, if you're still on the list--you rock! DM ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
At 05:03 PM 7/21/2003 -0400, Doug Meerschaert wrote: Don't know if their web-staff jumped the gun, or if it's just up nice and early, but the 3.5 SRD is up on WotC's website. More after I digest it--but on first looks, I must say that I am very impressed with it. Still RTF, but with real tables--and monster descriptions. Andy, if you're still on the list--you rock! Wow, From Legal.rtf: The following items are designated Product Identity, as defined in Section 1(e) of the Open Game License Version 1.0a, and are subject to the conditions set forth in Section 7 of the OGL, and are not Open Content: Dungeons Dragons, DD, Dungeon Master, Monster Manual, d20 System, Wizards of the Coast, d20, Forgotten Realms, Faerûn, character names (including those used in the names of spells or items), places, Red Wizard of Thay, Heroic Domains of Ysgard, Ever-Changing Chaos of Limbo, Windswept Depths of Pandemonium, Infinite Layers of the Abyss, Tarterian Depths of Carceri, Gray Waste of Hades, Bleak Eternity of Gehenna, Nine Hells of Baator, Infernal Battlefield of Acheron, Clockwork Nirvana of Mechanus, Peaceable Kingdoms of Arcadia, Seven Mounting Heavens of Celestia, Twin Paradises of Bytopia, Blessed Fields of Elysium, Wilderness of the Beastlands, Olympian Glades of Arborea, Concordant Domain of the Outlands, Sigil, Lady of Pain, Book of Exalted Deeds, Book of Vile Darkness, beholder, gauth, carrion crawler, tanarri, baatezu, displacer beast, githyanki, githzerai, mind flayer, illithid, umber hulk, yuan-ti. No more Wizards doesn't have PI rebuttals. Glad I got a look before heading out to GenCon. Joe Joe Mucchiello Throwing Dice Games http://www.throwingdice.com ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
RE: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
At 02:20 PM 7/21/2003 -0700, Smith, Andrew wrote: Let's just blame that on burnout from working on the SRD for a month straight. Well, from what I've seen of your work so far, let me commend you on the result. The revised SRD looks great! Thanks for all of your hard (and, I'm sure, tedious) work. Sixten ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
From: Joe Mucchiello [EMAIL PROTECTED] mind flayer, illithid, Odd, they didn't put the Illithid back in. I guess that was since they're mentioned elsewhere like the Grimlock entry. -Damian ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
At 05:32 PM 7/21/2003 -0400, Joe Mucchiello wrote: No more Wizards doesn't have PI rebuttals. Do any of those terms actually occur in the files? (I'm looking, but I just discovered that the ZIP versions are still the 3.0 SRD files, and have NOT been updated.) Sixten ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
--- Joe Mucchiello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From Legal.rtf: The following items are designated Product Identity, as defined in Section 1(e) of the Open Game License Version 1.0a, and are subject to the conditions set forth in Section 7 of the OGL, and are not Open Content: Ever-Changing Chaos of Limbo, Windswept Depths of Pandemonium, Infinite Layers of the Abyss, Tarterian Depths of Carceri, Gray Waste of Hades, Bleak Eternity of Gehenna, Nine Hells of Baator, Infernal Battlefield of Acheron, Clockwork Nirvana of Mechanus, Peaceable Kingdoms of Arcadia, Seven Mounting Heavens of Celestia, Twin Paradises of Bytopia, Blessed Fields of Elysium, Wilderness of the Beastlands, Olympian Glades of Arborea, Concordant Domain of the Outlands, ... Note that the words Limbo, Pandemonium, Abyss, Carceri, Hades, Gehenna, Hell, } Acheron, Mechanus, Arcadia, Heaven, Elysium, Beastlands, Arborea, and Outlands are not, in and of themselves, PI... So you could REFER to these planes without violating PI. = BORGSTROM'S FIRST LAW (of Game Design): If you want to emphasize something, make sure everyone knows that they shouldn't have anything to do with it. __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
Sixten Otto wrote: Do any of those terms actually occur in the files? (I'm looking, but I just discovered that the ZIP versions are still the 3.0 SRD files, and have NOT been updated.) The mini-ZIPs do. DM ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
I downloaded the master ZIP file. Did anyone else finding it missing Barbarian-Monk character classes? I found those elsewhere on the SRD page. Also, somebody told me Rangers have a d8 for HD. Is that right? The SRD says d10. Lee
Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
In a message dated 7/21/03 6:05:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do any of those terms actually occur in the files? (I'm looking, but I just discovered that the ZIP versions are still the 3.0 SRD files, and have NOT been updated.) Oops -- that may explain my puzzlement over Rangers... The ZIP files are fouled up. Thanks, Lee
Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
*chuckle* Except the Psionic one doesn't seem to be downloading, but since psionics hasn't been updated.. you can download the psionics stuff through the master zip file and then just download the rest of the mini-zip files. Doug Meerschaert wrote: Sixten Otto wrote: Do any of those terms actually occur in the files? (I'm looking, but I just discovered that the ZIP versions are still the 3.0 SRD files, and have NOT been updated.) The mini-ZIPs do. DM ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l -- [Statements may appear harsher than they are due to healing after Wisdom Tooth removal.. please adjust your reading accordingly] ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
On Mon, 2003-07-21 at 23:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I downloaded the master ZIP file. Did anyone else finding it missing Barbarian-Monk character classes? I found those elsewhere on the SRD page. Also, somebody told me Rangers have a d8 for HD. Is that right? The SRD says d10. As Doug said, the big zip still has the old SRD in. The smaller zips do seem to have the new one, though. And rangers have a d8 for HD. -- David Chart http://www.dchart.demon.co.uk/ PGP Key: 1786 15B1 53A3 7ED0 CBD4 AFBE 9B61 6D10 46C9 1CBE ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
At 05:42 PM 7/21/2003 -0400, Sixten Otto wrote: At 05:32 PM 7/21/2003 -0400, Joe Mucchiello wrote: No more Wizards doesn't have PI rebuttals. Do any of those terms actually occur in the files? (I'm looking, but I just discovered that the ZIP versions are still the 3.0 SRD files, and have NOT been updated.) Apparently not, this list was just in case a mistake was made most likely. The All of the SRD zip has not been updated. The 5 SRD chunks are the 3.5 SRD. Even the Hells of Baator are replaced (in the pit fiend entry) with Environment: A lawful evil-aligned plane ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
At 11:31 PM 7/21/2003 +0100, David Chart wrote: As Doug said, the big zip still has the old SRD in. The smaller zips do seem to have the new one, though. True. The Psionics zip seems to be MIA, though. Sixten ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
I'm thinking that I'll wait a while before I download the new SRD. I'd hate to start work on something only to later find out that half of what I was using were 3.0 files mistakenly left on the site, or something of the sort. Steven Conan Trustrum Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://www.trustrum.com The only real people are the people that never existed -- Oscar Wilde ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
RE: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
From: Smith, Andrew Thanks, Doug. The web team didn't jump the gun, I just forgot that we had said it would be up within a few days of the book's release. Let's just blame that on burnout from working on the SRD for a month straight. After I was reminded of our promised release date I begged to have it pushed forward. Looks like it worked. Andy Smith Publishing/d20 Licensing Wizards of the Coast, Inc. You better get those web team back on the job. Some of the links are broken. One thread offered the corrected links. OBTW, the SRDTreasure.rtf document is the same as the original and not formatted with the rest of the Revised SRD. IOW, the charts and tables are bleah compared to the other sections. One more thing, where is the original SRD? ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
At 18:36 -0400 7/21/03, Joe Mucchiello wrote: At 05:42 PM 7/21/2003 -0400, Sixten Otto wrote: Do any of those terms actually occur in the files? Apparently not, this list was just in case a mistake was made most likely. more likely, it's because now they have a leg to stand on if they want to stop people putting d20 in the title of their non-D20STL book. And other similar things--the vast majority of those terms likely couldn't be trademarked, so they, previously, had no power to stop others using them. Also, the wording of the WotC OGL restrictions on trademark aren't nearly as strong as those on PI, so it gives them more power to keep others from using them. -- woodelf* [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://webpages.charter.net/woodelph/ The Laws of Anime http://www.abcb.com/laws/index.htm: #8 Second Law of Temporal Mortality It takes some time for bad guys to die... regardless of physical damage. Even when the 'Bad Guys' are killed so quickly they didn't even see it coming, it takes them a while to realize they are dead. This is attributed to the belief that being evil damages the Reality Lobe of the brain. ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
On 21 Jul 2003 woodelf scribbled a note about Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly): more likely, it's because now they have a leg to stand on if they want to stop people putting d20 in the title of their non-D20STL book. And other similar things--the vast majority of those terms likely couldn't be trademarked, so they, previously, had no power to stop others using them. Also, the wording of the WotC OGL restrictions on trademark aren't nearly as strong as those on PI, so it gives them more power to keep others from using them. Except that to use d20 in the title, a company would apparently only have to use the 3.0 SRD as their base, rather than the 3.5 SRD. At least, that is what I see happening here. TANSTAAFL Rasyr (Tim Dugger) System Editor Iron Crown Enterprises - http://www.ironcrown.com E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [Ogf-l] SRD released (apparantly)
Hey, Andy! Let me add another chorus of Good job, man! ...and also a tiny refrain of The srdpsionicpowersijklmnop.rtf file seems to be missing, though. -- Joe Crow/Glasscastle Productions d20 Games and Campaign Settings/Freelance Game Writing ___ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
