Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi

2021-01-13 Thread Jim Klimov 
On January 13, 2021 2:13:43 PM UTC, Bob Friesenhahn 
 wrote:
>On Tue, 12 Jan 2021, Jim Klimov wrote:
>>
>> Bob, FWIW I think you can generally copy-paste in terminals with
>mouse if you hold SHIFT while click-dragging to select the text.
>
>Usually the problem I encounter is with a paste over a ssh login.  The 
>source system has either already been dealt with or I am not using vim 
>on the source system.  I don't think that vim is going to detect SHIFT 
>if used over a ssh login.
>
>Bob

Seems to do for me, it detects mouse over SSH after all. I confess I did not 
bother to check "who" exactly does what, and there are X11, terminal app, 
console emulation, SSH, another console, vi, and maybe more actors in the 
logical stack from key-press to char-print ;)

Jim

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Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi

2021-01-13 Thread Bob Friesenhahn 

On Tue, 12 Jan 2021, Jim Klimov wrote:


Bob, FWIW I think you can generally copy-paste in terminals with mouse if you 
hold SHIFT while click-dragging to select the text.


Usually the problem I encounter is with a paste over a ssh login.  The 
source system has either already been dealt with or I am not using vim 
on the source system.  I don't think that vim is going to detect SHIFT 
if used over a ssh login.


Bob
--
Bob Friesenhahn
bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/
GraphicsMagick Maintainer,http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/
Public Key, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/public-key.txt

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Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi

2021-01-11 Thread Jim Klimov 
On January 11, 2021 9:28:09 PM UTC, "Klaus Ziegler - owner of sunfreeware.de" 
 wrote:
>
>
>On 11.01.21 21:59, Bob Friesenhahn wrote:
>> It would be good if fresh systems would default to fewer quirky 
>> wiz-bang features yet allow them to easily be enabled for a
>Linux-like 
>> experience.
>>
>> Bob
>I absolutely agree
>and 
>vote for it :-)
>
>Much Regards
>Klaus Ziegler

Bob, FWIW I think you can generally copy-paste in terminals with mouse if you 
hold SHIFT while click-dragging to select the text.

This helps me on SSH sessions to my OmniOS box where vi is whizzier and 
quirkier than on my OpenIndiana daily workstation ;)

And as far as editor war is cindering, Midnight Commander and its editor, of 
course ;)

But yeah, vi being on all systems however small (and basic interface similar to 
that of command line and `less`), knowing a bit of way around it is just part 
of basic *nix literacy I guess.

Jim


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Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi

2021-01-11 Thread Joshua M. Clulow via oi-dev 
On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 at 12:36, Gary Mills  wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 09:54:23AM -0800, Chris wrote:
> > While vim(1) is my "goto" editor, and vi(1) really isn't difficult. My
> > frustration
> > comes in the fact that each OS implements a different version, with 
> > different
> > keyboard macros. Which quickly made ee(1) my goto when I was working in a
> > "constrained" env (like dropping to single-user), and just needed to make
> > some
> > simple edit(s). BTW I'm the maintainer for ee(1) on FreeBSD. ;-)
>
> Shall I start editor wars?  I use ex, which is almost always there,
> until I can install emacs.  Then I'm much happier.  Even though ex is
> just a command-line version of vi, I've never learned vi.

As per our manual:

The ed utility is the standard text editor.

How could it be otherwise!


Cheers.

-- 
Joshua M. Clulow
http://blog.sysmgr.org

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Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi

2021-01-11 Thread Klaus Ziegler - owner of sunfreeware.de 



On 11.01.21 21:59, Bob Friesenhahn wrote:
It would be good if fresh systems would default to fewer quirky 
wiz-bang features yet allow them to easily be enabled for a Linux-like 
experience.


Bob
I absolutely agree and 
vote for it :-)


Much Regards
Klaus Ziegler
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Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi

2021-01-11 Thread Chris 

On 2021-01-11 12:59, Bob Friesenhahn wrote:

On Mon, 11 Jan 2021, Chris wrote:
While vim(1) is my "goto" editor, and vi(1) really isn't difficult. My 
frustration
comes in the fact that each OS implements a different version, with 
different

keyboard macros. Which quickly made ee(1) my goto when I was working in a
"constrained" env (like dropping to single-user), and just needed to make 
some

simple edit(s). BTW I'm the maintainer for ee(1) on FreeBSD. ;-)


I have not tried 'ee'.  The biggest gripe I have with 'vim' is that it is 
way too
fancy by default.  For example, I often copy and paste using the mouse 
(especially
for system administration purposes) but 'vim' detects a mouse and prevents 
simple
copy and paste of text from one window to another. The wiz-bang features can 
be
disabled but this is problematic when one is configuring a new system.  It 
is
necessary to fix the editor configuration (perhaps using cat to a file 
rather than

an editor) before the editor is usable.

Other problems I have is with editors (e.g. vim) and commands which 
"colorize"
everything.  There seems to be an implicit assumption regarding the 
background
color (maybe black?).  But I have already set my default background color to 
a
light background which is pleasing for my old eyes and then I can barely 
make out

the text on the screen.
Editors, like DEs (Desktop Environments) are a *very* personal thing. Getting 
it

right for *everyone* is a lost cause. ;-)
OTOH importing all your dot files immediately after an install, can go a long 
way

to getting it right. I like Bright on Dark for my old eyes. ;-)


It would be good if fresh systems would default to fewer quirky wiz-bang 
features

yet allow them to easily be enabled for a Linux-like experience.
I just this moment completed a fresh OI install, and lo-and-behold, there was 
a

copy of nano available. Without requiring a pfexec pkg install nano. :-()

--Chris


Bob


--
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Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi

2021-01-11 Thread Bob Friesenhahn 

On Mon, 11 Jan 2021, Chris wrote:
While vim(1) is my "goto" editor, and vi(1) really isn't difficult. My 
frustration

comes in the fact that each OS implements a different version, with different
keyboard macros. Which quickly made ee(1) my goto when I was working in a
"constrained" env (like dropping to single-user), and just needed to make 
some

simple edit(s). BTW I'm the maintainer for ee(1) on FreeBSD. ;-)


I have not tried 'ee'.  The biggest gripe I have with 'vim' is that it 
is way too fancy by default.  For example, I often copy and paste 
using the mouse (especially for system administration purposes) but 
'vim' detects a mouse and prevents simple copy and paste of text from 
one window to another. The wiz-bang features can be disabled but this 
is problematic when one is configuring a new system.  It is necessary 
to fix the editor configuration (perhaps using cat to a file rather 
than an editor) before the editor is usable.


Other problems I have is with editors (e.g. vim) and commands which 
"colorize" everything.  There seems to be an implicit assumption 
regarding the background color (maybe black?).  But I have already set 
my default background color to a light background which is pleasing 
for my old eyes and then I can barely make out the text on the screen.


It would be good if fresh systems would default to fewer quirky 
wiz-bang features yet allow them to easily be enabled for a Linux-like 
experience.


Bob
--
Bob Friesenhahn
bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/
GraphicsMagick Maintainer,http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/
Public Key, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/public-key.txt

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Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi

2021-01-11 Thread Chris 

On 2021-01-11 12:36, Gary Mills wrote:

On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 09:54:23AM -0800, Chris wrote:

While vim(1) is my "goto" editor, and vi(1) really isn't difficult. My
frustration
comes in the fact that each OS implements a different version, with 
different

keyboard macros. Which quickly made ee(1) my goto when I was working in a
"constrained" env (like dropping to single-user), and just needed to make
some
simple edit(s). BTW I'm the maintainer for ee(1) on FreeBSD. ;-)


Shall I start editor wars?

LOL. No. Please don't. :-)
I'm can just as easily get by with cat(1), awk(1) and sed(1).


 I use ex, which is almost always there,
until I can install emacs.  Then I'm much happier.  Even though ex is
just a command-line version of vi, I've never learned vi.

PS: Nano seems to be installed on all of my OI systems.  I didn't
install it, so it must have come with the OS just like vi.


--Chris

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Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi

2021-01-11 Thread Gary Mills 
On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 09:54:23AM -0800, Chris wrote:
> While vim(1) is my "goto" editor, and vi(1) really isn't difficult. My
> frustration
> comes in the fact that each OS implements a different version, with different
> keyboard macros. Which quickly made ee(1) my goto when I was working in a
> "constrained" env (like dropping to single-user), and just needed to make
> some
> simple edit(s). BTW I'm the maintainer for ee(1) on FreeBSD. ;-)

Shall I start editor wars?  I use ex, which is almost always there,
until I can install emacs.  Then I'm much happier.  Even though ex is
just a command-line version of vi, I've never learned vi.

PS: Nano seems to be installed on all of my OI systems.  I didn't
install it, so it must have come with the OS just like vi.


-- 
-Gary Mills--refurb--Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada-

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Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi

2021-01-11 Thread Chris 

On 2021-01-11 08:23, Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev wrote:

I know how to install nano, sir.


...


I can't deal with vi at all. Not the modern VIM let alone your old vi.

Without nano, I can't do text editing.

Yes, vi is historically part of any Unix. But at least, on FreeBSD, they 
have a

fallback, the ee editor, included by default.
While vim(1) is my "goto" editor, and vi(1) really isn't difficult. My 
frustration

comes in the fact that each OS implements a different version, with different
keyboard macros. Which quickly made ee(1) my goto when I was working in a
"constrained" env (like dropping to single-user), and just needed to make 
some

simple edit(s). BTW I'm the maintainer for ee(1) on FreeBSD. ;-)



It's basically what I'm asking for.

IMHO ee/nano doesn't seem an unreasonable request as an addition to $BASE.
ee(1) weighs in at 1k. I don't use nano, so am unsure of it's exact size.

But I don't have a commit bit on OI so am only to express an opinion. :-)

--Chris

--
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Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi

2021-01-11 Thread Toomas Soome via oi-dev 


> On 11. Jan 2021, at 18:23, Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> I know how to install nano, sir.
> 
> To be fair, your OS is a resources hog. This small VM I'm setup only has 4 
> cores 4 GB of RAM.
> 
> Without limiting the ZFS Maximum ARC Cache in /etc/system, any attempts to 
> use pkg will fail.

This is not quite true, I have 2 VM’s with 4GB ram and one with 2GB, and I have 
never needed to touch max arc. But pkg is hog. can not be run with firefox, 
which is another hog. 

> To be able to use this VM comfortably, I have to assign 8 GB of swap and 
> limit arc cache size to 512 MB maximum.
> 
> I can't deal with vi at all. Not the modern VIM let alone your old vi.
> 
> Without nano, I can't do text editing.

Now that would be pity, would it?

rgds,
toomas

> 
> Yes, vi is historically part of any Unix. But at least, on FreeBSD, they have 
> a fallback, the ee editor, included by default.
> 
> It's basically what I'm asking for.
> 
> 
>  On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 15:27:51 +0700 Vincent Torri 
>  wrote 
> 
>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 9:00 AM Toomas Soome via oi-dev
>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 11. Jan 2021, at 09:39, Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe... I'm impolite. But what if I'm just visit here once for this 
>>>> purpose then?
>>>> 
>>>> I only care about the result. Maybe I'm posted on the wrong mailing list. 
>>>> Maybe OI-discuss more fit?
>>>> 
>>>> The only thing I want to see and to care is: the next version of OI, nano 
>>>> is included alongside of vi in the text and minimal version.
>>>> 
>>>> It's just simple as that. Why make thing complicated?
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> The problem is, you are asking to expand minimal version, by definition, 
>>> after such expansion, the minimal is not minimal any more. So, the decision 
>>> has to me made - should the definition of minimal be changed, or should 
>>> user who has decided to use minimal image, learn how to enter ‘pkg install 
>>> nano’.
>> 
>> hello
>> 
>> As a user, I don't want my system to be polluted by unwanted packages.
>> I prefer installing what I want. For example, for text or code editor,
>> I prefer another program than nano.
>> 
>> When searching for a package, i use
>> http://pkg.openindiana.org/hipster/en/index.shtml (in case it helps)
>> 
>> best regards
>> 
>> Vincent Torri
>> 
>>> If you are making decision to use minimal image, you should be aware that 
>>> such image is missing many things and is not intended to be used by someone 
>>> who does not know how to use the system.
>>> 
>>> PS: I see no problem to include nano with larger image.
>>> 
>>> my 2 cents.
>>> 
>>> rgds,
>>> toomas
>>> 
>>>>  On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 14:19:14 +0700 Tim Mooney via oi-dev 
>>>>  wrote 
>>>> 
>>>>> In regard to: Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi, 
>>>>> Hung...:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yes, it's just a single line. But why you give me a read-only file and
>>>>>> asked me to modified it?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It's much more simpler for developer with write access to do it, not me.
>>>>>> And it's within a second, just a single line.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't know if other languages and cultures have an equivalent, but there
>>>>> is a proverb[1] that applies here:
>>>>> 
>>>>>If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day.
>>>>>If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Teaching someone (or helping them learn) how to do something is often
>>>>> more useful than just doing something (once) for them.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Aurélien is trying to help you to learn to fish.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Learning how to clone oi-userland, create a branch, make a very simple
>>>>> change like this, and submit a pull request (PR) is very useful knowledge
>>>>> to have for anyone that wants to contribute to OI.  There are certainly
>>>>> other ways to contribute, but since you're posting to the oi-dev list,
>>>>> it seems like you might be interested in the development process.  Knowing
>>>>> the workflow for submitting a change is potentially benef

Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi

2021-01-11 Thread Aurélien Larcher 
On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 5:32 PM Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev <
oi-dev@openindiana.org> wrote:

> Sorry. I had a really bad day. I hope I could call back some of my mails.
> But it's impossible anyway.
>

This is fine, no problem.

Take care

Aurélien



>
>
>  On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 16:15:08 +0700 Michael Schuster <
> michaelspriv...@gmail.com> wrote 
>
>  > Hi Hung,
>  >
>  > On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 8:39 AM Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev <
> oi-dev@openindiana.org> wrote:
>  > Maybe... I'm impolite. But what if I'm just visit here once for this
> purpose then?
>  >
>  >  I only care about the result. Maybe I'm posted on the wrong mailing
> list. Maybe OI-discuss more fit?
>  >
>  >  The only thing I want to see and to care is: the next version of OI,
> nano is included alongside of vi in the text and minimal version.
>  >
>  >  It's just simple as that. Why make thing complicated?
>  >
>  >  Or this whole DIY stuffs here is just a polite way to say: we don't
> care about your concern and it you could send we a pull request we may
> 'optionally' consider it?
>  >
>  >  Then just said: 'Fuck off! We don't care!'. Straight forward so I
> could know to silently go away. This will not waste our time with a bunch
> of back and forth emails.
>  >
>  > you don't seem to realise or appreciate the fact that this is a project
> that is (almost?) exclusively driven by volunteers. As such, these
> volunteers decide what gets done.
>  > In such an environment, the best way to get things the way you want
> them done is doing them yourself (not because people don't care, but
> because their priorities aren't necessarily yours ... and because they're
> probably quite busy doing stuff) - as you've found out, this requires
> effort on your part. The second best option is asking, nicely, and offering
> your help on the way and supplying as much information as possible (eg,
> error messages, compiler output ... ).
>  >
>  > Using language like "I want", "morons", "weird" will not put you or
> your issue at the front of anyone's favourite list.
>  >
>  > I don't see people telling you to go away - rather, they're (quite
> politely, in my POV) telling you to follow what used to be called
> "netiquette".
>  >
>  > regards
>  > Michael
>  >
>  >
>  >  On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 14:19:14 +0700 Tim Mooney via oi-dev <
> oi-dev@openindiana.org> wrote 
>  >
>  >   > In regard to: Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with
> vi, Hung...:
>  >   >
>  >   > > Yes, it's just a single line. But why you give me a read-only
> file and
>  >   > > asked me to modified it?
>  >   > >
>  >   > > It's much more simpler for developer with write access to do it,
> not me.
>  >   > > And it's within a second, just a single line.
>  >   >
>  >   > I don't know if other languages and cultures have an equivalent,
> but there
>  >   > is a proverb[1] that applies here:
>  >   >
>  >   >  If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day.
>  >   >  If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.
>  >   >
>  >   > Teaching someone (or helping them learn) how to do something is
> often
>  >   > more useful than just doing something (once) for them.
>  >   >
>  >   > Aurélien is trying to help you to learn to fish.
>  >   >
>  >   > Learning how to clone oi-userland, create a branch, make a very
> simple
>  >   > change like this, and submit a pull request (PR) is very useful
> knowledge
>  >   > to have for anyone that wants to contribute to OI.  There are
> certainly
>  >   > other ways to contribute, but since you're posting to the oi-dev
> list,
>  >   > it seems like you might be interested in the development process.
> Knowing
>  >   > the workflow for submitting a change is potentially beneficial to
> you.
>  >   >
>  >   > Yes, he could do it in just a couple minutes.  But then you've
> missed an
>  >   > opportunity to learn something that might allow you to contribute
> to OI.
>  >   >
>  >   > [1] the origin of this proverb appears to be quite contested, but
> it
>  >   >  seems like it might be Lao-Tzu.
>  >   >
>  >   > Tim
>  >   >
>  >   > >  On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 00:49:50 +0700 Aurélien Larcher <
> aurelien.larc...@gmail.com> wrote 
>  >   > >
>  >   > > >
>  >   > > >
>  >

Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi

2021-01-11 Thread Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev 
Sorry. I had a really bad day. I hope I could call back some of my mails. But 
it's impossible anyway.


 On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 16:15:08 +0700 Michael Schuster 
 wrote 

 > Hi Hung,
 > 
 > On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 8:39 AM Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev 
 >  wrote:
 > Maybe... I'm impolite. But what if I'm just visit here once for this purpose 
 > then?
 >  
 >  I only care about the result. Maybe I'm posted on the wrong mailing list. 
 > Maybe OI-discuss more fit?
 >  
 >  The only thing I want to see and to care is: the next version of OI, nano 
 > is included alongside of vi in the text and minimal version.
 >  
 >  It's just simple as that. Why make thing complicated?
 >  
 >  Or this whole DIY stuffs here is just a polite way to say: we don't care 
 > about your concern and it you could send we a pull request we may 
 > 'optionally' consider it?
 >  
 >  Then just said: 'Fuck off! We don't care!'. Straight forward so I could 
 > know to silently go away. This will not waste our time with a bunch of back 
 > and forth emails.
 > 
 > you don't seem to realise or appreciate the fact that this is a project that 
 > is (almost?) exclusively driven by volunteers. As such, these volunteers 
 > decide what gets done.
 > In such an environment, the best way to get things the way you want them 
 > done is doing them yourself (not because people don't care, but because 
 > their priorities aren't necessarily yours ... and because they're probably 
 > quite busy doing stuff) - as you've found out, this requires effort on your 
 > part. The second best option is asking, nicely, and offering your help on 
 > the way and supplying as much information as possible (eg, error messages, 
 > compiler output ... ).
 > 
 > Using language like "I want", "morons", "weird" will not put you or your 
 > issue at the front of anyone's favourite list.
 > 
 > I don't see people telling you to go away - rather, they're (quite politely, 
 > in my POV) telling you to follow what used to be called "netiquette".
 > 
 > regards
 > Michael
 > 
 > 
 >  On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 14:19:14 +0700 Tim Mooney via oi-dev 
 >  wrote 
 >  
 >   > In regard to: Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi, 
 > Hung...: 
 >   >  
 >   > > Yes, it's just a single line. But why you give me a read-only file and 
 >   > > asked me to modified it? 
 >   > > 
 >   > > It's much more simpler for developer with write access to do it, not 
 > me. 
 >   > > And it's within a second, just a single line. 
 >   >  
 >   > I don't know if other languages and cultures have an equivalent, but 
 > there 
 >   > is a proverb[1] that applies here: 
 >   >  
 >   >  If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. 
 >   >  If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime. 
 >   >  
 >   > Teaching someone (or helping them learn) how to do something is often 
 >   > more useful than just doing something (once) for them. 
 >   >  
 >   > Aurélien is trying to help you to learn to fish. 
 >   >  
 >   > Learning how to clone oi-userland, create a branch, make a very simple 
 >   > change like this, and submit a pull request (PR) is very useful 
 > knowledge 
 >   > to have for anyone that wants to contribute to OI.  There are certainly 
 >   > other ways to contribute, but since you're posting to the oi-dev list, 
 >   > it seems like you might be interested in the development process.  
 > Knowing 
 >   > the workflow for submitting a change is potentially beneficial to you. 
 >   >  
 >   > Yes, he could do it in just a couple minutes.  But then you've missed an 
 >   > opportunity to learn something that might allow you to contribute to OI. 
 >   >  
 >   > [1] the origin of this proverb appears to be quite contested, but it 
 >   >  seems like it might be Lao-Tzu. 
 >   >  
 >   > Tim 
 >   >  
 >   > >  On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 00:49:50 +0700 Aurélien Larcher 
 >  wrote  
 >   > > 
 >   > > > 
 >   > > > 
 >   > > > On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 9:09 AM Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev 
 >  wrote: 
 >   > > > This should be done for none desktop OI flavors: OI text and OI 
 > minimal. 
 >   > > > 
 >   > > >  It will help novice user like me very much. Please consider it, 
 > developers. I have trouble using the vi editor even though I have my mobile 
 > phone with me as a backup showing the vi tutorial. And I think many other 
 > novice users have the same trouble as me. 
 >   > > > 
 >   > > >  Doing a

Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi

2021-01-11 Thread Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev 
I know how to install nano, sir.

To be fair, your OS is a resources hog. This small VM I'm setup only has 4 
cores 4 GB of RAM.

Without limiting the ZFS Maximum ARC Cache in /etc/system, any attempts to use 
pkg will fail.

It could be stuck for eternity if me don't intervene with Ctrl+C. Or it will 
run for a while but fail because not enough memory.

To be able to use this VM comfortably, I have to assign 8 GB of swap and limit 
arc cache size to 512 MB maximum.

I can't deal with vi at all. Not the modern VIM let alone your old vi.

Without nano, I can't do text editing.

Yes, vi is historically part of any Unix. But at least, on FreeBSD, they have a 
fallback, the ee editor, included by default.

It's basically what I'm asking for.


 On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 15:27:51 +0700 Vincent Torri  
wrote 

 > On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 9:00 AM Toomas Soome via oi-dev
 >  wrote:
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > > > On 11. Jan 2021, at 09:39, Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev 
 > > >  wrote:
 > > >
 > > > Maybe... I'm impolite. But what if I'm just visit here once for this 
 > > > purpose then?
 > > >
 > > > I only care about the result. Maybe I'm posted on the wrong mailing 
 > > > list. Maybe OI-discuss more fit?
 > > >
 > > > The only thing I want to see and to care is: the next version of OI, 
 > > > nano is included alongside of vi in the text and minimal version.
 > > >
 > > > It's just simple as that. Why make thing complicated?
 > > >
 > >
 > > The problem is, you are asking to expand minimal version, by definition, 
 > > after such expansion, the minimal is not minimal any more. So, the 
 > > decision has to me made - should the definition of minimal be changed, or 
 > > should user who has decided to use minimal image, learn how to enter ‘pkg 
 > > install nano’.
 > 
 > hello
 > 
 > As a user, I don't want my system to be polluted by unwanted packages.
 > I prefer installing what I want. For example, for text or code editor,
 > I prefer another program than nano.
 > 
 > When searching for a package, i use
 > http://pkg.openindiana.org/hipster/en/index.shtml (in case it helps)
 > 
 > best regards
 > 
 > Vincent Torri
 > 
 > >If you are making decision to use minimal image, you should be aware that 
 > >such image is missing many things and is not intended to be used by someone 
 > >who does not know how to use the system.
 > >
 > > PS: I see no problem to include nano with larger image.
 > >
 > > my 2 cents.
 > >
 > > rgds,
 > > toomas
 > >
 > > >  On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 14:19:14 +0700 Tim Mooney via oi-dev 
 > > >  wrote 
 > > >
 > > >> In regard to: Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi, 
 > > >> Hung...:
 > > >>
 > > >>> Yes, it's just a single line. But why you give me a read-only file and
 > > >>> asked me to modified it?
 > > >>>
 > > >>> It's much more simpler for developer with write access to do it, not 
 > > >>> me.
 > > >>> And it's within a second, just a single line.
 > > >>
 > > >> I don't know if other languages and cultures have an equivalent, but 
 > > >> there
 > > >> is a proverb[1] that applies here:
 > > >>
 > > >> If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day.
 > > >> If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.
 > > >>
 > > >> Teaching someone (or helping them learn) how to do something is often
 > > >> more useful than just doing something (once) for them.
 > > >>
 > > >> Aurélien is trying to help you to learn to fish.
 > > >>
 > > >> Learning how to clone oi-userland, create a branch, make a very simple
 > > >> change like this, and submit a pull request (PR) is very useful 
 > > >> knowledge
 > > >> to have for anyone that wants to contribute to OI.  There are certainly
 > > >> other ways to contribute, but since you're posting to the oi-dev list,
 > > >> it seems like you might be interested in the development process.  
 > > >> Knowing
 > > >> the workflow for submitting a change is potentially beneficial to you.
 > > >>
 > > >> Yes, he could do it in just a couple minutes.  But then you've missed an
 > > >> opportunity to learn something that might allow you to contribute to OI.
 > > >>
 > > >> [1] the origin of this proverb appears to be quite contested, but it
 > > >> seems like it might

Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi

2021-01-11 Thread Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev 
I know how to install nano, sir.

To be fair, your OS is a resources hog. This small VM I'm setup only has 4 
cores 4 GB of RAM.

Without limiting the ZFS Maximum ARC Cache in /etc/system, any attempts to use 
pkg will fail.

It could be stuck for eternity if me don't intervene with Ctrl+C. Or it will 
run for a while but fail because not enough memory.

To be able to use this VM comfortably, I have to assign 8 GB of swap and limit 
arc cache size to 512 MB maximum.

I can't deal with vi at all. Not the modern VIM let alone your old vi.

Without nano, I can't do text editing.

Yes, vi is historically part of any Unix. But at least, on FreeBSD, they have a 
fallback, the ee editor, included by default.

It's basically what I'm asking for.


 On Mon, 11 Jan 2021 15:00:28 +0700 Toomas Soome via oi-dev 
 wrote 

 > 
 > 
 > > On 11. Jan 2021, at 09:39, Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev 
 > >  wrote:
 > > 
 > > Maybe... I'm impolite. But what if I'm just visit here once for this 
 > > purpose then?
 > > 
 > > I only care about the result. Maybe I'm posted on the wrong mailing list. 
 > > Maybe OI-discuss more fit?
 > > 
 > > The only thing I want to see and to care is: the next version of OI, nano 
 > > is included alongside of vi in the text and minimal version.
 > > 
 > > It's just simple as that. Why make thing complicated?
 > > 
 > 
 > The problem is, you are asking to expand minimal version, by definition, 
 > after such expansion, the minimal is not minimal any more. So, the decision 
 > has to me made - should the definition of minimal be changed, or should user 
 > who has decided to use minimal image, learn how to enter ‘pkg install nano’. 
 > If you are making decision to use minimal image, you should be aware that 
 > such image is missing many things and is not intended to be used by someone 
 > who does not know how to use the system.
 > 
 > PS: I see no problem to include nano with larger image.
 > 
 > my 2 cents.
 > 
 > rgds,
 > toomas
 > 
 > >  On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 14:19:14 +0700 Tim Mooney via oi-dev 
 > >  wrote 
 > > 
 > >> In regard to: Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi, 
 > >> Hung...: 
 > >> 
 > >>> Yes, it's just a single line. But why you give me a read-only file and 
 > >>> asked me to modified it? 
 > >>> 
 > >>> It's much more simpler for developer with write access to do it, not me. 
 > >>> And it's within a second, just a single line. 
 > >> 
 > >> I don't know if other languages and cultures have an equivalent, but 
 > >> there 
 > >> is a proverb[1] that applies here: 
 > >> 
 > >> If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. 
 > >> If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime. 
 > >> 
 > >> Teaching someone (or helping them learn) how to do something is often 
 > >> more useful than just doing something (once) for them. 
 > >> 
 > >> Aurélien is trying to help you to learn to fish. 
 > >> 
 > >> Learning how to clone oi-userland, create a branch, make a very simple 
 > >> change like this, and submit a pull request (PR) is very useful knowledge 
 > >> to have for anyone that wants to contribute to OI.  There are certainly 
 > >> other ways to contribute, but since you're posting to the oi-dev list, 
 > >> it seems like you might be interested in the development process.  
 > >> Knowing 
 > >> the workflow for submitting a change is potentially beneficial to you. 
 > >> 
 > >> Yes, he could do it in just a couple minutes.  But then you've missed an 
 > >> opportunity to learn something that might allow you to contribute to OI. 
 > >> 
 > >> [1] the origin of this proverb appears to be quite contested, but it 
 > >> seems like it might be Lao-Tzu. 
 > >> 
 > >> Tim 
 > >> 
 > >>>  On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 00:49:50 +0700 Aurélien Larcher 
 > >>>  wrote  
 > >>> 
 > >>>> 
 > >>>> 
 > >>>> On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 9:09 AM Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev 
 > >>>>  wrote: 
 > >>>> This should be done for none desktop OI flavors: OI text and OI 
 > >>>> minimal. 
 > >>>> 
 > >>>> It will help novice user like me very much. Please consider it, 
 > >>>> developers. I have trouble using the vi editor even though I have my 
 > >>>> mobile phone with me as a backup showing the vi tutorial. And I think 
 > >>>> many other novi

Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi

2021-01-11 Thread Michael Schuster 
Hi Hung,

On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 8:39 AM Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev <
oi-dev@openindiana.org> wrote:

> Maybe... I'm impolite. But what if I'm just visit here once for this
> purpose then?
>
> I only care about the result. Maybe I'm posted on the wrong mailing list.
> Maybe OI-discuss more fit?
>
> The only thing I want to see and to care is: the next version of OI, nano
> is included alongside of vi in the text and minimal version.
>
> It's just simple as that. Why make thing complicated?
>
> Or this whole DIY stuffs here is just a polite way to say: we don't care
> about your concern and it you could send we a pull request we may
> 'optionally' consider it?
>
> Then just said: 'Fuck off! We don't care!'. Straight forward so I could
> know to silently go away. This will not waste our time with a bunch of back
> and forth emails.
>

you don't seem to realise or appreciate the fact that this is a project
that is (almost?) exclusively driven by volunteers. As such, these
volunteers decide what gets done.
In such an environment, the best way to get things the way you want them
done is doing them yourself (not because people don't care, but because
their priorities aren't necessarily yours ... and because they're probably
quite busy doing stuff) - as you've found out, this requires effort on your
part. The second best option is asking, nicely, and offering your help on
the way and supplying as much information as possible (eg, error messages,
compiler output ... ).

Using language like "I want", "morons", "weird" will not put you or your
issue at the front of anyone's favourite list.

I don't see people telling you to go away - rather, they're (quite
politely, in my POV) telling you to follow what used to be called
"netiquette".

regards
Michael

>
>  On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 14:19:14 +0700 Tim Mooney via oi-dev <
> oi-dev@openindiana.org> wrote 
>
>  > In regard to: Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi,
> Hung...:
>  >
>  > > Yes, it's just a single line. But why you give me a read-only file
> and
>  > > asked me to modified it?
>  > >
>  > > It's much more simpler for developer with write access to do it, not
> me.
>  > > And it's within a second, just a single line.
>  >
>  > I don't know if other languages and cultures have an equivalent, but
> there
>  > is a proverb[1] that applies here:
>  >
>  >  If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day.
>  >  If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.
>  >
>  > Teaching someone (or helping them learn) how to do something is often
>  > more useful than just doing something (once) for them.
>  >
>  > Aurélien is trying to help you to learn to fish.
>  >
>  > Learning how to clone oi-userland, create a branch, make a very simple
>  > change like this, and submit a pull request (PR) is very useful
> knowledge
>  > to have for anyone that wants to contribute to OI.  There are certainly
>  > other ways to contribute, but since you're posting to the oi-dev list,
>  > it seems like you might be interested in the development process.
> Knowing
>  > the workflow for submitting a change is potentially beneficial to you.
>  >
>  > Yes, he could do it in just a couple minutes.  But then you've missed
> an
>  > opportunity to learn something that might allow you to contribute to
> OI.
>  >
>  > [1] the origin of this proverb appears to be quite contested, but it
>  >  seems like it might be Lao-Tzu.
>  >
>  > Tim
>  >
>  > >  On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 00:49:50 +0700 Aurélien Larcher <
> aurelien.larc...@gmail.com> wrote 
>  > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 9:09 AM Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev <
> oi-dev@openindiana.org> wrote:
>  > > > This should be done for none desktop OI flavors: OI text and OI
> minimal.
>  > > >
>  > > >  It will help novice user like me very much. Please consider it,
> developers. I have trouble using the vi editor even though I have my mobile
> phone with me as a backup showing the vi tutorial. And I think many other
> novice users have the same trouble as me.
>  > > >
>  > > >  Doing as Fedora is a step too far:
> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=Fedora-33-Nano-Is-The-Default
>  > > >
>  > > >  I only asked for shipping nano alongside with vi. The link I put
> above just to note that nano has pretty much become the default editor on
> the Linux world and most of us come from Linux. It will be easier for us.
> Thanks.
>  > >

Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi

2021-01-11 Thread Vincent Torri 
On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 9:00 AM Toomas Soome via oi-dev
 wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 11. Jan 2021, at 09:39, Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev 
> >  wrote:
> >
> > Maybe... I'm impolite. But what if I'm just visit here once for this 
> > purpose then?
> >
> > I only care about the result. Maybe I'm posted on the wrong mailing list. 
> > Maybe OI-discuss more fit?
> >
> > The only thing I want to see and to care is: the next version of OI, nano 
> > is included alongside of vi in the text and minimal version.
> >
> > It's just simple as that. Why make thing complicated?
> >
>
> The problem is, you are asking to expand minimal version, by definition, 
> after such expansion, the minimal is not minimal any more. So, the decision 
> has to me made - should the definition of minimal be changed, or should user 
> who has decided to use minimal image, learn how to enter ‘pkg install nano’.

hello

As a user, I don't want my system to be polluted by unwanted packages.
I prefer installing what I want. For example, for text or code editor,
I prefer another program than nano.

When searching for a package, i use
http://pkg.openindiana.org/hipster/en/index.shtml (in case it helps)

best regards

Vincent Torri

>If you are making decision to use minimal image, you should be aware that such 
>image is missing many things and is not intended to be used by someone who 
>does not know how to use the system.
>
> PS: I see no problem to include nano with larger image.
>
> my 2 cents.
>
> rgds,
> toomas
>
> > ---- On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 14:19:14 +0700 Tim Mooney via oi-dev 
> >  wrote 
> >
> >> In regard to: Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi, 
> >> Hung...:
> >>
> >>> Yes, it's just a single line. But why you give me a read-only file and
> >>> asked me to modified it?
> >>>
> >>> It's much more simpler for developer with write access to do it, not me.
> >>> And it's within a second, just a single line.
> >>
> >> I don't know if other languages and cultures have an equivalent, but there
> >> is a proverb[1] that applies here:
> >>
> >> If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day.
> >> If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.
> >>
> >> Teaching someone (or helping them learn) how to do something is often
> >> more useful than just doing something (once) for them.
> >>
> >> Aurélien is trying to help you to learn to fish.
> >>
> >> Learning how to clone oi-userland, create a branch, make a very simple
> >> change like this, and submit a pull request (PR) is very useful knowledge
> >> to have for anyone that wants to contribute to OI.  There are certainly
> >> other ways to contribute, but since you're posting to the oi-dev list,
> >> it seems like you might be interested in the development process.  Knowing
> >> the workflow for submitting a change is potentially beneficial to you.
> >>
> >> Yes, he could do it in just a couple minutes.  But then you've missed an
> >> opportunity to learn something that might allow you to contribute to OI.
> >>
> >> [1] the origin of this proverb appears to be quite contested, but it
> >> seems like it might be Lao-Tzu.
> >>
> >> Tim
> >>
> >>>  On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 00:49:50 +0700 Aurélien Larcher 
> >>>  wrote 
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 9:09 AM Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev 
> >>>>  wrote:
> >>>> This should be done for none desktop OI flavors: OI text and OI minimal.
> >>>>
> >>>> It will help novice user like me very much. Please consider it, 
> >>>> developers. I have trouble using the vi editor even though I have my 
> >>>> mobile phone with me as a backup showing the vi tutorial. And I think 
> >>>> many other novice users have the same trouble as me.
> >>>>
> >>>> Doing as Fedora is a step too far: 
> >>>> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=Fedora-33-Nano-Is-The-Default
> >>>>
> >>>> I only asked for shipping nano alongside with vi. The link I put above 
> >>>> just to note that nano has pretty much become the default editor on the 
> >>>> Linux world and most of us come from Linux. It will be easier for us. 
> >>>> Thanks.
> >>>>
> >>>> Hello,
> >>>> basically one could add the nan

Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi

2021-01-11 Thread Toomas Soome via oi-dev 


> On 11. Jan 2021, at 09:39, Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> Maybe... I'm impolite. But what if I'm just visit here once for this purpose 
> then?
> 
> I only care about the result. Maybe I'm posted on the wrong mailing list. 
> Maybe OI-discuss more fit?
> 
> The only thing I want to see and to care is: the next version of OI, nano is 
> included alongside of vi in the text and minimal version.
> 
> It's just simple as that. Why make thing complicated?
> 

The problem is, you are asking to expand minimal version, by definition, after 
such expansion, the minimal is not minimal any more. So, the decision has to me 
made - should the definition of minimal be changed, or should user who has 
decided to use minimal image, learn how to enter ‘pkg install nano’. If you are 
making decision to use minimal image, you should be aware that such image is 
missing many things and is not intended to be used by someone who does not know 
how to use the system.

PS: I see no problem to include nano with larger image.

my 2 cents.

rgds,
toomas

>  On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 14:19:14 +0700 Tim Mooney via oi-dev 
>  wrote ----
> 
>> In regard to: Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi, 
>> Hung...: 
>> 
>>> Yes, it's just a single line. But why you give me a read-only file and 
>>> asked me to modified it? 
>>> 
>>> It's much more simpler for developer with write access to do it, not me. 
>>> And it's within a second, just a single line. 
>> 
>> I don't know if other languages and cultures have an equivalent, but there 
>> is a proverb[1] that applies here: 
>> 
>> If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. 
>> If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime. 
>> 
>> Teaching someone (or helping them learn) how to do something is often 
>> more useful than just doing something (once) for them. 
>> 
>> Aurélien is trying to help you to learn to fish. 
>> 
>> Learning how to clone oi-userland, create a branch, make a very simple 
>> change like this, and submit a pull request (PR) is very useful knowledge 
>> to have for anyone that wants to contribute to OI.  There are certainly 
>> other ways to contribute, but since you're posting to the oi-dev list, 
>> it seems like you might be interested in the development process.  Knowing 
>> the workflow for submitting a change is potentially beneficial to you. 
>> 
>> Yes, he could do it in just a couple minutes.  But then you've missed an 
>> opportunity to learn something that might allow you to contribute to OI. 
>> 
>> [1] the origin of this proverb appears to be quite contested, but it 
>> seems like it might be Lao-Tzu. 
>> 
>> Tim 
>> 
>>>  On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 00:49:50 +0700 Aurélien Larcher 
>>>  wrote  
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 9:09 AM Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev 
>>>>  wrote: 
>>>> This should be done for none desktop OI flavors: OI text and OI minimal. 
>>>> 
>>>> It will help novice user like me very much. Please consider it, 
>>>> developers. I have trouble using the vi editor even though I have my 
>>>> mobile phone with me as a backup showing the vi tutorial. And I think many 
>>>> other novice users have the same trouble as me. 
>>>> 
>>>> Doing as Fedora is a step too far: 
>>>> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=Fedora-33-Nano-Is-The-Default
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> I only asked for shipping nano alongside with vi. The link I put above 
>>>> just to note that nano has pretty much become the default editor on the 
>>>> Linux world and most of us come from Linux. It will be easier for us. 
>>>> Thanks. 
>>>> 
>>>> Hello, 
>>>> basically one could add the nano package to: 
>>>> 
>>>> https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/blob/oi/hipster/components/meta-packages/install-types/includes/minimal
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Kind regards, 
>>>> 
>>>> Aurélien 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ___ 
>>>> oi-dev mailing list 
>>>> oi-dev@openindiana.org 
>>>> https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> --- 
>>>> Praise the Caffeine embeddings 
>>>> ___ 
>>&g

Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi

2021-01-10 Thread Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev 
Maybe... I'm impolite. But what if I'm just visit here once for this purpose 
then?

I only care about the result. Maybe I'm posted on the wrong mailing list. Maybe 
OI-discuss more fit?

The only thing I want to see and to care is: the next version of OI, nano is 
included alongside of vi in the text and minimal version.

It's just simple as that. Why make thing complicated?

Or this whole DIY stuffs here is just a polite way to say: we don't care about 
your concern and it you could send we a pull request we may 'optionally' 
consider it?

Then just said: 'Fuck off! We don't care!'. Straight forward so I could know to 
silently go away. This will not waste our time with a bunch of back and forth 
emails.

 On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 14:19:14 +0700 Tim Mooney via oi-dev 
 wrote 

 > In regard to: Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi, 
 > Hung...: 
 >  
 > > Yes, it's just a single line. But why you give me a read-only file and 
 > > asked me to modified it? 
 > > 
 > > It's much more simpler for developer with write access to do it, not me. 
 > > And it's within a second, just a single line. 
 >  
 > I don't know if other languages and cultures have an equivalent, but there 
 > is a proverb[1] that applies here: 
 >  
 >  If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. 
 >  If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime. 
 >  
 > Teaching someone (or helping them learn) how to do something is often 
 > more useful than just doing something (once) for them. 
 >  
 > Aurélien is trying to help you to learn to fish. 
 >  
 > Learning how to clone oi-userland, create a branch, make a very simple 
 > change like this, and submit a pull request (PR) is very useful knowledge 
 > to have for anyone that wants to contribute to OI.  There are certainly 
 > other ways to contribute, but since you're posting to the oi-dev list, 
 > it seems like you might be interested in the development process.  Knowing 
 > the workflow for submitting a change is potentially beneficial to you. 
 >  
 > Yes, he could do it in just a couple minutes.  But then you've missed an 
 > opportunity to learn something that might allow you to contribute to OI. 
 >  
 > [1] the origin of this proverb appears to be quite contested, but it 
 >  seems like it might be Lao-Tzu. 
 >  
 > Tim 
 >  
 > >  On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 00:49:50 +0700 Aurélien Larcher 
 > >  wrote  
 > > 
 > > > 
 > > > 
 > > > On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 9:09 AM Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev 
 > > >  wrote: 
 > > > This should be done for none desktop OI flavors: OI text and OI minimal. 
 > > > 
 > > >  It will help novice user like me very much. Please consider it, 
 > > > developers. I have trouble using the vi editor even though I have my 
 > > > mobile phone with me as a backup showing the vi tutorial. And I think 
 > > > many other novice users have the same trouble as me. 
 > > > 
 > > >  Doing as Fedora is a step too far: 
 > > > https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=Fedora-33-Nano-Is-The-Default
 > > >  
 > > > 
 > > >  I only asked for shipping nano alongside with vi. The link I put above 
 > > > just to note that nano has pretty much become the default editor on the 
 > > > Linux world and most of us come from Linux. It will be easier for us. 
 > > > Thanks. 
 > > > 
 > > > Hello, 
 > > > basically one could add the nano package to: 
 > > > 
 > > > https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/blob/oi/hipster/components/meta-packages/install-types/includes/minimal
 > > >  
 > > > 
 > > > Kind regards, 
 > > > 
 > > > Aurélien 
 > > > 
 > > > 
 > > > 
 > > > ___ 
 > > >  oi-dev mailing list 
 > > > oi-dev@openindiana.org 
 > > > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev 
 > > > 
 > > > 
 > > > -- 
 > > > --- 
 > > > Praise the Caffeine embeddings 
 > > > ___ 
 > > > oi-dev mailing list 
 > > > oi-dev@openindiana.org 
 > > > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev 
 > > > 
 > > 
 > > ___ 
 > > oi-dev mailing list 
 > > oi-dev@openindiana.org 
 > > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev 
 > > 
 >  
 > -- 
 > Tim Mooney tim.moo...@ndsu.edu 
 > Enterprise Computing & Infrastructure / 
 > Division of Information Technology/701-231-1076 (Voice) 
 > North Dakota State University, Fargo, ND 
 > 58105-5164___ 
 > oi-dev mailing list 
 > oi-dev@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev 
 > 

___
oi-dev mailing list
oi-dev@openindiana.org
https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev

Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi

2021-01-09 Thread Tim Mooney via oi-dev 

In regard to: Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi, Hung...:


Yes, it's just a single line. But why you give me a read-only file and
asked me to modified it?

It's much more simpler for developer with write access to do it, not me.
And it's within a second, just a single line.


I don't know if other languages and cultures have an equivalent, but there
is a proverb[1] that applies here:

If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day.
If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.

Teaching someone (or helping them learn) how to do something is often
more useful than just doing something (once) for them.

Aurélien is trying to help you to learn to fish.

Learning how to clone oi-userland, create a branch, make a very simple
change like this, and submit a pull request (PR) is very useful knowledge
to have for anyone that wants to contribute to OI.  There are certainly
other ways to contribute, but since you're posting to the oi-dev list,
it seems like you might be interested in the development process.  Knowing
the workflow for submitting a change is potentially beneficial to you.

Yes, he could do it in just a couple minutes.  But then you've missed an
opportunity to learn something that might allow you to contribute to OI.

[1] the origin of this proverb appears to be quite contested, but it
seems like it might be Lao-Tzu.

Tim


 On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 00:49:50 +0700 Aurélien Larcher 
 wrote 

>
>
> On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 9:09 AM Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev 
 wrote:
> This should be done for none desktop OI flavors: OI text and OI minimal.
>
>  It will help novice user like me very much. Please consider it, developers. 
I have trouble using the vi editor even though I have my mobile phone with me as a 
backup showing the vi tutorial. And I think many other novice users have the same 
trouble as me.
>
>  Doing as Fedora is a step too far: 
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=Fedora-33-Nano-Is-The-Default
>
>  I only asked for shipping nano alongside with vi. The link I put above just 
to note that nano has pretty much become the default editor on the Linux world and 
most of us come from Linux. It will be easier for us. Thanks.
>
> Hello,
> basically one could add the nano package to:
>
> 
https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/blob/oi/hipster/components/meta-packages/install-types/includes/minimal
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Aurélien
>
>
>
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>
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Tim Mooney tim.moo...@ndsu.edu
Enterprise Computing & Infrastructure /
Division of Information Technology/701-231-1076 (Voice)
North Dakota State University, Fargo, ND 58105-5164___
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Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi

2021-01-09 Thread Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev 
Yes, it's just a single line. But why you give me a read-only file and asked me 
to modified it?

It's much more simpler for developer with write access to do it, not me. And 
it's within a second, just a single line.


 On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 00:49:50 +0700 Aurélien Larcher 
 wrote 

 > 
 > 
 > On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 9:09 AM Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev 
 >  wrote:
 > This should be done for none desktop OI flavors: OI text and OI minimal.
 >  
 >  It will help novice user like me very much. Please consider it, developers. 
 > I have trouble using the vi editor even though I have my mobile phone with 
 > me as a backup showing the vi tutorial. And I think many other novice users 
 > have the same trouble as me.
 >  
 >  Doing as Fedora is a step too far: 
 > https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=Fedora-33-Nano-Is-The-Default
 >  
 >  I only asked for shipping nano alongside with vi. The link I put above just 
 > to note that nano has pretty much become the default editor on the Linux 
 > world and most of us come from Linux. It will be easier for us. Thanks.
 > 
 > Hello,
 > basically one could add the nano package to:
 > 
 > https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/blob/oi/hipster/components/meta-packages/install-types/includes/minimal
 > 
 > Kind regards,
 > 
 > Aurélien
 > 
 >  
 > 
 > ___
 >  oi-dev mailing list
 >  oi-dev@openindiana.org
 >  https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
 > 
 > 
 > -- 
 > ---
 > Praise the Caffeine embeddings
 > ___
 > oi-dev mailing list 
 > oi-dev@openindiana.org 
 > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev 
 > 

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Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi

2021-01-09 Thread Tim Mooney via oi-dev 

In regard to: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi, Hung...:


This should be done for none desktop OI flavors: OI text and OI minimal.


Nano is already packaged for OI, though it may not be getting installed by
default.

It's a balancing act, to decide what to include with a default/minimal
install, but nano is pretty small so I personally don't think it would be bad
to add it to a minimal install.

Tim
--
Tim Mooney tim.moo...@ndsu.edu
Enterprise Computing & Infrastructure /
Division of Information Technology/701-231-1076 (Voice)
North Dakota State University, Fargo, ND 58105-5164

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Re: [oi-dev] Shipping the nano editor alongside with vi

2021-01-09 Thread Aurélien Larcher 
On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 9:09 AM Hung Nguyen Gia via oi-dev <
oi-dev@openindiana.org> wrote:

> This should be done for none desktop OI flavors: OI text and OI minimal.
>
> It will help novice user like me very much. Please consider it,
> developers. I have trouble using the vi editor even though I have my mobile
> phone with me as a backup showing the vi tutorial. And I think many other
> novice users have the same trouble as me.
>
> Doing as Fedora is a step too far:
> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=Fedora-33-Nano-Is-The-Default
>
> I only asked for shipping nano alongside with vi. The link I put above
> just to note that nano has pretty much become the default editor on the
> Linux world and most of us come from Linux. It will be easier for us.
> Thanks.
>

Hello,
basically one could add the nano package to:

https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/blob/oi/hipster/components/meta-packages/install-types/includes/minimal

Kind regards,

Aurélien



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