Re: Apache BarCamp - Oxford University Club, Sep 11
This event looks great! On 2011/08/04 11:32, Dennis E. Hamilton said: > That's one of the greatest *camp event pages I've seen. The extensive > directions and great maps have me seriously regret I won't be walking any of > those streets in September. > > Kudos, > > - Dennis > > -Original Message- > From: Donald Harbison [mailto:dpharbi...@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 19:36 > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org > Subject: Re: Apache BarCamp - Oxford University Club, Sep 11 > > Ross, > > Thanks for re-posting my bungled link attempt. > > Yes, this is a very cool opportunity for Apache folks and those from other > communities; e.g. LibreOffice, to come together. I hope those here on list > will forward accordingly. > > best! > > /don > > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Ross Gardler > wrote: > >> On 3 August 2011 22:20, Rob Weir wrote: >>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Donald Harbison >> wrote: I am keen to help facilitate an Apache OpenOffice theme within the >> upcoming Apache BarCamp scheduled for Oxford on September 11[1]. In particular, it would be great if developers from both OpenOffice and LibreOffice could meetup. We can organically shape the event depending >> on who opts in. If you choose to do so, join up on the wiki as footnoted. I will >> definitely be there. FWIW. :) /don harbison >>> >>> I don't see any link, Don >> >> http://barcamp.org/w/page/400249/BarCampApacheOxford >> >> I'll be there, everyone welcome. >> >> Ross >> > -- Best regards, imacat ^_*' PGP Key http://www.imacat.idv.tw/me/pgpkey.asc <> News: http://www.wov.idv.tw/ Tavern IMACAT's http://www.imacat.idv.tw/ Woman in FOSS in Taiwan http://wofoss.blogspot.com/ OpenOffice.org http://www.openoffice.org/ EducOO/OOo4Kids Taiwan http://www.educoo.tw/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Who supports OpenOffice.org 3.3.0? (was Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org?)
Hello Katzunari-san; This is not an official response but we will continue receiving Bug reports and we will provide an upgrade path. This involves some limited support: we will likely want to End-Of-Line ASAP non-Apache releases, and we won't be distributing them anymore. Like in all opensource projects the code is available and this makes it much easier for developers and user communities to work together. Cheers, Pedro. On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 11:40:50 +0900, Kazunari Hirano wrote: Hi all, Who will support OpenOffice.org 3.3.0 and previous versions? We have got many OpenOffice.org 3 users. We have many local government users, SMB users and big company users. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/JA/Marketing/OpenOffice.org_Deployments Some use OpenOffice.org 3.2. Many use OpenOffice.org 3.3.0. Can we support OpeOffice.org 3.3.0? Thanks, khirano
RE: Apache BarCamp - Oxford University Club, Sep 11
That's one of the greatest *camp event pages I've seen. The extensive directions and great maps have me seriously regret I won't be walking any of those streets in September. Kudos, - Dennis -Original Message- From: Donald Harbison [mailto:dpharbi...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 19:36 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Apache BarCamp - Oxford University Club, Sep 11 Ross, Thanks for re-posting my bungled link attempt. Yes, this is a very cool opportunity for Apache folks and those from other communities; e.g. LibreOffice, to come together. I hope those here on list will forward accordingly. best! /don On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Ross Gardler wrote: > On 3 August 2011 22:20, Rob Weir wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Donald Harbison > wrote: > >> I am keen to help facilitate an Apache OpenOffice theme within the > upcoming > >> Apache BarCamp scheduled for Oxford on September 11[1]. > >> In particular, it would be great if developers from both OpenOffice and > >> LibreOffice could meetup. We can organically shape the event depending > on > >> who opts in. > >> If you choose to do so, join up on the wiki as footnoted. I will > definitely > >> be there. FWIW. :) > >> > >> /don harbison > >> > > > > I don't see any link, Don > > http://barcamp.org/w/page/400249/BarCampApacheOxford > > I'll be there, everyone welcome. > > Ross >
Who supports OpenOffice.org 3.3.0? (was Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org?)
Hi all, Who will support OpenOffice.org 3.3.0 and previous versions? We have got many OpenOffice.org 3 users. We have many local government users, SMB users and big company users. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/JA/Marketing/OpenOffice.org_Deployments Some use OpenOffice.org 3.2. Many use OpenOffice.org 3.3.0. Can we support OpeOffice.org 3.3.0? Thanks, khirano
Re: Apache BarCamp - Oxford University Club, Sep 11
Ross, Thanks for re-posting my bungled link attempt. Yes, this is a very cool opportunity for Apache folks and those from other communities; e.g. LibreOffice, to come together. I hope those here on list will forward accordingly. best! /don On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Ross Gardler wrote: > On 3 August 2011 22:20, Rob Weir wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Donald Harbison > wrote: > >> I am keen to help facilitate an Apache OpenOffice theme within the > upcoming > >> Apache BarCamp scheduled for Oxford on September 11[1]. > >> In particular, it would be great if developers from both OpenOffice and > >> LibreOffice could meetup. We can organically shape the event depending > on > >> who opts in. > >> If you choose to do so, join up on the wiki as footnoted. I will > definitely > >> be there. FWIW. :) > >> > >> /don harbison > >> > > > > I don't see any link, Don > > http://barcamp.org/w/page/400249/BarCampApacheOxford > > I'll be there, everyone welcome. > > Ross >
Access to wiki
I've got completely lost in all the mutations of the "Refactoring" thread, and don't recall all that has been said, so please forgive me if what I'm about to suggest has been dealt with already. Two low-barrier methods I have seen work quite successfully on wikis, forums, and similar sites are: 1) People must ask for an account; they can't self-subscribe. Nothing is required except a few words about who you are and why you want an account. Any one of several people authorised to approve or reject these requests can deal with them expeditiously. Very few spammers, in my experience, take the trouble to actually request accounts. 2) Alternatively, or in addition, the first X edits/ contributions/ whatever are moderated by a group of people, any one of whom can approve or reject the items. After X acceptable contributions, the person is then allowed to edit the wiki without further supervision -- until or unless they start posting inappropriate material such as spam. Again, very few spammers will take the trouble to post some useful info before going into spam mode. These methods deal with the vast majority, if not all, of the concerns I have seen Rob expressing about systems with no control at all, but at the same time they do not require more time or commitment on the contributors' part to be authorised to participate. AFAIK, most wikis & similar sites provide some way to limit the editing of specific pages to a smaller group of people (admins or whatever). --Jean
Japanese site, wiki, forum and mailing lists (was Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org?)
Hi all, All the contents of Japanese site[1], wiki[2], forum[3], mailing lists[4] are essential assets to create a new Japanese OpenOffice.org [1] http://ja.openoffice.org/ [2] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/JA/ [3] http://user.services.openoffice.org/ja/forum/ [4] http://openoffice.org/projects/ja/lists If Japanese users and contributors would like to keep them all as is, to migrate them to Apache successfully, what would you like to know about the Japanese site, the Japanese wiki, the Japanese forum and Japanese mailing list? Thanks, khirano
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
Hi Dennis and all, On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 3:37 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: > My interpretation is that we could have Apache ooo as the identifier of the > core Apache project > built on what we factor out of the Oracle grant, leaving OpenOffice.org as a > web site and > a family of distributions and support for end-user and adopter/integrator > activities that reach out > beyond the development of a buildable open-source code base. This is what I would like to tell OpenOffice.org Japanese community members, Japanese users and contributors, and Japanese public. :) And I am still collecting information about the future of OpenOffice.org the community and the product to prepare an announcement to annou...@ja.openoffice.org. After our graduation from the incubation, "Apache OpenOffice" project will develop and release a new "OpenOffice.org" right? Let's say it's "OpenOffice.org 4" :) Japanese users and contributors and public have 2 questions. 1) Will we see and use OpenOffice.org Japanese site[1], wiki[2], forum[3] and mailing lists[4]?, will we download Japanese OpenOffice.org 4 from Japanese download page[5], and will OpenOffice.org 4 be supported on the site, the wiki, the forum and mailing lists? 2) Who will support Japanese OpenOffice.org 3.3.0? [1] http://ja.openoffice.org/ [2] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/JA/ [3] http://user.services.openoffice.org/ja/forum/ [4] http://openoffice.org/projects/ja/lists [5] http://ja.openoffice.org/download/ I will create independent threads for these questions on this ooo-dev list. :) Thanks, khirano
Re: How to handle the downloads?
On Aug 3, 2011, at 4:31 PM, Gavin McDonald wrote: > > >> -Original Message- >> From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] >> Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2011 8:54 AM >> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org >> Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads? >> >> Am 08/04/2011 12:38 AM, schrieb Gavin McDonald: >>> >>> -Original Message- From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 6:45 PM To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads? Am 08/03/2011 02:17 AM, schrieb Gavin McDonald: >> -Original Message- >> From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] >> Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 9:40 AM >> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org >> Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads? >> >> Am 08/02/2011 11:03 PM, schrieb Gavin McDonald: >>> >>> -Original Message- From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 12:55 AM To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads? Thanks for you note. Then we should implement adownload method withthe fllowing order: 1. User clicks on the One-Click-Download URL and get the software (like today on "download.openoffice.org"). 2. If not, he can use alternative download links (like today on "download.openoffice.org/pther.html"). 3. If a special mirror has to be used, the list of all available mirrors >>> will help (like today on >>> "http://distribution.openoffice.org/mirrors/#mirrors";). Latest with step 3 all users should be able to download something. >>> >>> Yep, all possible here at the ASF right now. >>> >>> See www.apache.org/mirrors for our equiv of step 3. >> >> I've already understood that you don't want the OOo mirrors but >> that we should use the Apache ones. ;-) > > Hi Marcus, > > don't count me as 100% on that yet, I want to know more about the > OOo mirrors too. OK, if you have already questions just ask and I will try to give > answers. >>> >>> not yet, working on it, >>> > I just didn't want to be maintaining 150+ projects on one mirror > system and > 1 project > on another mirror system. maintaining one mirror system is easier, > so If that is possible and our mirroring system can cope, and we can > maybe coax a few more mirrors our way all the better. Some of our > existing mirrors may decide that bandwidth is too much and leave, so > we need replacements. I don't know about bandwidth but to get an impression about size and amount please have a look here. This mirror has rsync'ed everything that >>> was released by Sun and Oracle: http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/openoffice/ >>> >>> thanks, >>> > If it makes sense to try and merge these somehow, I want to pursue > that avenue. A first step should be to look for doubles. >>> >>> yep, >>> > We may need both for some time, we can not put non ASF releases on > our mirroring system anyway so what we are trying to resolve is from > our first ASF release onwards. Hm, when looking at this mirror it is already hosting non-Apache > software: ftp://ftp.uni-erlangen.de/pub/mirrors/ Software from Apache and, e.g., OpenOffice.org is just a subset within >>> many other projects. >>> >>> Sorry, that isn't what I meant. The mirrors get their content from us >>> right, we can not provide them with non-asf released software to put >>> on their mirror copy of our dist tree [1] . They are of course welcome >>> to provide non-asf mirrors as most of them already do. >>> >>> [1] - http://apache.org/dist/ >>> >>> Gav... >> >> OK, let me try again. The mirrors can distribute what ever they want but >> within the Apache subdirs only ASF licensed software is allowed. Have a > got it >> right now? > > Spot on. > > And the only way non ASF licenses software will get into the Apache subdirs > is > if we put it there in the first place. > > A project makes a release and puts the files of that release into a specific > area of > svn. That then syncs up with our main dist area, mirrors then sync up from > there. > > IOW, the pre-existing mirror system for OOo needs to continue and be > referred to > in documentation and 'older releases' page so that folks can get pre-asf > released > versions of OOo from there. Only new releases from now onwards developed > here > at ASF will be put into our release/dist areas. Here is the big question. As long as the Apache hosted version of download.openoffice.org points to mirrors with already existing OOo releases that were put on the mirrors by Oracle/Sun then we are A-OK
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
On Aug 3, 2011, at 12:52 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: > Here's an item cribbed from another list that is relevant to concerns about > downloads and perhaps user-created content on OpenOffice.org: > > -Original Message- > From: Roy T. Fielding [mailto:field...@gbiv.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 12:31 > To: legal-disc...@apache.org > Subject: Re: CDDL Source Availability > > On Aug 3, 2011, at 5:33 AM, Robert Burrell Donkin wrote: > >> CDDL 1.0[1] contains a source availability clause[2]. The CDDL is >> Category B (Reciprocal License)[3] and so a reference to the source is >> required in the NOTICE[4]. >> >> AIUI policy does not allow distribution of Category B source from Apache >> (please jump in if I missed any changes). > > No. Policy is that it can't be distributed as part of our product. > There is nothing stopping us from having a third-party dist on our > website for other licensed code, provided it is clear that they are > not our products. > > Roy Roy is the one who suggested that we have a separate openoffice.org for the legacy. It is good to see a reasoned defense. Perhaps it should be called a "Legacy" exception in order to bring in the significant community that is OpenOffice.org Thanks Dennis! Regards, Dave > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscr...@apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-h...@apache.org >
RE: How to handle the downloads?
> -Original Message- > From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] > Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2011 8:54 AM > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org > Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads? > > Am 08/04/2011 12:38 AM, schrieb Gavin McDonald: > > > > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] > >> Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 6:45 PM > >> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org > >> Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads? > >> > >> Am 08/03/2011 02:17 AM, schrieb Gavin McDonald: > -Original Message- > From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] > Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 9:40 AM > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org > Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads? > > Am 08/02/2011 11:03 PM, schrieb Gavin McDonald: > > > > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] > >> Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 12:55 AM > >> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org > >> Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads? > >> > >> Thanks for you note. Then we should implement adownload method > >> withthe fllowing order: > >> > >> 1. User clicks on the One-Click-Download URL and get the software > >> (like today on "download.openoffice.org"). > >> > >> 2. If not, he can use alternative download links (like today on > >> "download.openoffice.org/pther.html"). > >> > >> 3. If a special mirror has to be used, the list of all available > >> mirrors > > will help > >> (like today on > > "http://distribution.openoffice.org/mirrors/#mirrors";). > >> > >> Latest with step 3 all users should be able to download something. > > > > Yep, all possible here at the ASF right now. > > > > See www.apache.org/mirrors for our equiv of step 3. > > I've already understood that you don't want the OOo mirrors but > that we should use the Apache ones. ;-) > >>> > >>> Hi Marcus, > >>> > >>> don't count me as 100% on that yet, I want to know more about the > >>> OOo mirrors too. > >> > >> OK, if you have already questions just ask and I will try to give answers. > > > > not yet, working on it, > > > >> > >>> I just didn't want to be maintaining 150+ projects on one mirror > >>> system and > >>> 1 project > >>> on another mirror system. maintaining one mirror system is easier, > >>> so If that is possible and our mirroring system can cope, and we can > >>> maybe coax a few more mirrors our way all the better. Some of our > >>> existing mirrors may decide that bandwidth is too much and leave, so > >>> we need replacements. > >> > >> I don't know about bandwidth but to get an impression about size and > >> amount please have a look here. This mirror has rsync'ed everything > >> that > > was > >> released by Sun and Oracle: > >> > >> http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/openoffice/ > > > > thanks, > > > >> > >>> If it makes sense to try and merge these somehow, I want to pursue > >>> that avenue. > >> > >> A first step should be to look for doubles. > > > > yep, > > > >> > >>> We may need both for some time, we can not put non ASF releases on > >>> our mirroring system anyway so what we are trying to resolve is from > >>> our first ASF release onwards. > >> > >> Hm, when looking at this mirror it is already hosting non-Apache software: > >> > >> ftp://ftp.uni-erlangen.de/pub/mirrors/ > >> > >> Software from Apache and, e.g., OpenOffice.org is just a subset > >> within > > many > >> other projects. > > > > Sorry, that isn't what I meant. The mirrors get their content from us > > right, we can not provide them with non-asf released software to put > > on their mirror copy of our dist tree [1] . They are of course welcome > > to provide non-asf mirrors as most of them already do. > > > > [1] - http://apache.org/dist/ > > > > Gav... > > OK, let me try again. The mirrors can distribute what ever they want but > within the Apache subdirs only ASF licensed software is allowed. Have a got it > right now? Spot on. And the only way non ASF licenses software will get into the Apache subdirs is if we put it there in the first place. A project makes a release and puts the files of that release into a specific area of svn. That then syncs up with our main dist area, mirrors then sync up from there. IOW, the pre-existing mirror system for OOo needs to continue and be referred to in documentation and 'older releases' page so that folks can get pre-asf released versions of OOo from there. Only new releases from now onwards developed here at ASF will be put into our release/dist areas. HTH Gav... > > Marcus > > > > >> Am 08/02/2011 04:38 PM, schrieb Donald Whytock: > >>> A consideration...I for one have a need to be able to select my > >>> mirror. My office's firewall blocks certain domains and > >>> websites, especially those recognized as "hosting" or "file-sharing" > sites. > >>> It does not, however,
Re: Community outreach to openoffice.org visitors?
Am 08/03/2011 11:58 PM, schrieb Andrew Rist: On 8/3/2011 2:27 PM, Rob Weir wrote: On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote: Do you mean this? http://www.openoffic.org http://www.openoffic.org/news Or which landing pages do you have in mind? An idea: is there any easy way to get it into the header, so it is on every page? Something like "News: Apache OpenOffice.org!" with a link, perhaps to a new blog post. We could first write a blog post, specifically reaching out to OOo community members and telling them how they can get involved. Then, once that is posted, get that link out broadly, via the OOo website, wiki, mailing lists, forums, Facebook page, Twitter, etc. +1 I will take care of updating OOo site when we are ready Andrew This would be great, thanks for this. :-) Marcus It might make sense to wait until we first do the source migration and have Bugzilla, the wikis and forums migrated. But right around then would be a good time to put out the word. -Rob Marcus Am 08/03/2011 09:29 PM, schrieb Shane Curcuru: (Taking the opportunity to Refactor a new thread on OpenOffice.org) Are there any short term plans to update the main landing pages of the existing OpenOffice.org website(s) to provide user awareness of the transition of the product and project to Apache? I don't know 1) how long it will take to actually get this transitioned, and 2) how hard it is to update the Oracle-hosted sites, but I think it would be really useful to have a few blurbs about the future plans of Apache OpenOffice get put on the existing OpenOffice.org site sooner rather than later. The blog feed on the homepage is nice, but not enough. Or is this too much for the moment? - Shane
Re: How to handle the downloads?
Am 08/04/2011 12:38 AM, schrieb Gavin McDonald: -Original Message- From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 6:45 PM To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads? Am 08/03/2011 02:17 AM, schrieb Gavin McDonald: -Original Message- From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 9:40 AM To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads? Am 08/02/2011 11:03 PM, schrieb Gavin McDonald: -Original Message- From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 12:55 AM To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads? Thanks for you note. Then we should implement adownload method withthe fllowing order: 1. User clicks on the One-Click-Download URL and get the software (like today on "download.openoffice.org"). 2. If not, he can use alternative download links (like today on "download.openoffice.org/pther.html"). 3. If a special mirror has to be used, the list of all available mirrors will help (like today on "http://distribution.openoffice.org/mirrors/#mirrors";). Latest with step 3 all users should be able to download something. Yep, all possible here at the ASF right now. See www.apache.org/mirrors for our equiv of step 3. I've already understood that you don't want the OOo mirrors but that we should use the Apache ones. ;-) Hi Marcus, don't count me as 100% on that yet, I want to know more about the OOo mirrors too. OK, if you have already questions just ask and I will try to give answers. not yet, working on it, I just didn't want to be maintaining 150+ projects on one mirror system and 1 project on another mirror system. maintaining one mirror system is easier, so If that is possible and our mirroring system can cope, and we can maybe coax a few more mirrors our way all the better. Some of our existing mirrors may decide that bandwidth is too much and leave, so we need replacements. I don't know about bandwidth but to get an impression about size and amount please have a look here. This mirror has rsync'ed everything that was released by Sun and Oracle: http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/openoffice/ thanks, If it makes sense to try and merge these somehow, I want to pursue that avenue. A first step should be to look for doubles. yep, We may need both for some time, we can not put non ASF releases on our mirroring system anyway so what we are trying to resolve is from our first ASF release onwards. Hm, when looking at this mirror it is already hosting non-Apache software: ftp://ftp.uni-erlangen.de/pub/mirrors/ Software from Apache and, e.g., OpenOffice.org is just a subset within many other projects. Sorry, that isn't what I meant. The mirrors get their content from us right, we can not provide them with non-asf released software to put on their mirror copy of our dist tree [1] . They are of course welcome to provide non-asf mirrors as most of them already do. [1] - http://apache.org/dist/ Gav... OK, let me try again. The mirrors can distribute what ever they want but within the Apache subdirs only ASF licensed software is allowed. Have a got it right now? Marcus Am 08/02/2011 04:38 PM, schrieb Donald Whytock: A consideration...I for one have a need to be able to select my mirror. My office's firewall blocks certain domains and websites, especially those recognized as "hosting" or "file-sharing" sites. It does not, however, block .edu sites, so when I download an Apache product I select a university mirror. Other users may have similar constraints. If OOo's download process is going to tie into Apache mirroring, please don't completely eliminate the capacity to select the mirror. Don
RE: How to handle the downloads?
> -Original Message- > From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] > Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 6:45 PM > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org > Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads? > > Am 08/03/2011 02:17 AM, schrieb Gavin McDonald: > >> -Original Message- > >> From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] > >> Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 9:40 AM > >> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org > >> Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads? > >> > >> Am 08/02/2011 11:03 PM, schrieb Gavin McDonald: > >>> > >>> > -Original Message- > From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] > Sent: Wednesday, 3 August 2011 12:55 AM > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org > Subject: Re: How to handle the downloads? > > Thanks for you note. Then we should implement adownload method > withthe fllowing order: > > 1. User clicks on the One-Click-Download URL and get the software > (like today on "download.openoffice.org"). > > 2. If not, he can use alternative download links (like today on > "download.openoffice.org/pther.html"). > > 3. If a special mirror has to be used, the list of all available > mirrors > >>> will help > (like today on "http://distribution.openoffice.org/mirrors/#mirrors";). > > Latest with step 3 all users should be able to download something. > >>> > >>> Yep, all possible here at the ASF right now. > >>> > >>> See www.apache.org/mirrors for our equiv of step 3. > >> > >> I've already understood that you don't want the OOo mirrors but that > >> we should use the Apache ones. ;-) > > > > Hi Marcus, > > > > don't count me as 100% on that yet, I want to know more about the OOo > > mirrors too. > > OK, if you have already questions just ask and I will try to give answers. not yet, working on it, > > > I just didn't want to be maintaining 150+ projects on one mirror > > system and > > 1 project > > on another mirror system. maintaining one mirror system is easier, so > > If that is possible and our mirroring system can cope, and we can > > maybe coax a few more mirrors our way all the better. Some of our > > existing mirrors may decide that bandwidth is too much and leave, so > > we need replacements. > > I don't know about bandwidth but to get an impression about size and > amount please have a look here. This mirror has rsync'ed everything that was > released by Sun and Oracle: > > http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/openoffice/ thanks, > > > If it makes sense to try and merge these somehow, I want to pursue > > that avenue. > > A first step should be to look for doubles. yep, > > > We may need both for some time, we can not put non ASF releases on our > > mirroring system anyway so what we are trying to resolve is from our > > first ASF release onwards. > > Hm, when looking at this mirror it is already hosting non-Apache software: > > ftp://ftp.uni-erlangen.de/pub/mirrors/ > > Software from Apache and, e.g., OpenOffice.org is just a subset within many > other projects. Sorry, that isn't what I meant. The mirrors get their content from us right, we can not provide them with non-asf released software to put on their mirror copy of our dist tree [1] . They are of course welcome to provide non-asf mirrors as most of them already do. [1] - http://apache.org/dist/ Gav... > > Marcus > > > > Am 08/02/2011 04:38 PM, schrieb Donald Whytock: > > A consideration...I for one have a need to be able to select my > > mirror. My office's firewall blocks certain domains and websites, > > especially those recognized as "hosting" or "file-sharing" sites. > > It does not, however, block .edu sites, so when I download an > > Apache product I select a university mirror. > > > > Other users may have similar constraints. If OOo's download > > process is going to tie into Apache mirroring, please don't > > completely eliminate the capacity to select the mirror. > > > > Don
Re: Community outreach to openoffice.org visitors?
On 08/03/2011 02:52 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote: Am 08/03/2011 11:41 PM, schrieb Raphael Bircher: Am 03.08.11 23:27, schrieb Rob Weir: On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote: Do you mean this? http://www.openoffic.org http://www.openoffic.org/news Or which landing pages do you have in mind? An idea: is there any easy way to get it into the header, so it is on every page? No, thats not easy, only a few people from Oracle has access to this area. As I know, the moast of the parts are writen by ause wich is not here. AFAIK the part is in Kenai itself and I've no access to it. Marcus yep! you are correct...maybe Stefan or ??? certainly not I. Something like "News: Apache OpenOffice.org!" with a link, perhaps to a new blog post. We could first write a blog post, specifically reaching out to OOo community members and telling them how they can get involved. Then, once that is posted, get that link out broadly, via the OOo website, wiki, mailing lists, forums, Facebook page, Twitter, etc. It might make sense to wait until we first do the source migration and have Bugzilla, the wikis and forums migrated. But right around then would be a good time to put out the word. -- MzK "If you can keep your head when all others around you are losing theirs - maybe you don't fully understand the situation!" -- Unknown
Re: Community outreach to openoffice.org visitors?
On 8/3/2011 2:27 PM, Rob Weir wrote: On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote: Do you mean this? http://www.openoffic.org http://www.openoffic.org/news Or which landing pages do you have in mind? An idea: is there any easy way to get it into the header, so it is on every page? Something like "News: Apache OpenOffice.org!" with a link, perhaps to a new blog post. We could first write a blog post, specifically reaching out to OOo community members and telling them how they can get involved. Then, once that is posted, get that link out broadly, via the OOo website, wiki, mailing lists, forums, Facebook page, Twitter, etc. +1 I will take care of updating OOo site when we are ready Andrew It might make sense to wait until we first do the source migration and have Bugzilla, the wikis and forums migrated. But right around then would be a good time to put out the word. -Rob Marcus Am 08/03/2011 09:29 PM, schrieb Shane Curcuru: (Taking the opportunity to Refactor a new thread on OpenOffice.org) Are there any short term plans to update the main landing pages of the existing OpenOffice.org website(s) to provide user awareness of the transition of the product and project to Apache? I don't know 1) how long it will take to actually get this transitioned, and 2) how hard it is to update the Oracle-hosted sites, but I think it would be really useful to have a few blurbs about the future plans of Apache OpenOffice get put on the existing OpenOffice.org site sooner rather than later. The blog feed on the homepage is nice, but not enough. Or is this too much for the moment? - Shane
Re: Community outreach to openoffice.org visitors?
Am 03.08.11 23:52, schrieb Marcus (OOo): Am 08/03/2011 11:41 PM, schrieb Raphael Bircher: Am 03.08.11 23:27, schrieb Rob Weir: On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote: Do you mean this? http://www.openoffic.org http://www.openoffic.org/news Or which landing pages do you have in mind? An idea: is there any easy way to get it into the header, so it is on every page? No, thats not easy, only a few people from Oracle has access to this area. As I know, the moast of the parts are writen by ause wich is not here. AFAIK the part is in Kenai itself and I've no access to it. Exactly but same of Hamburg had access to it. that I know from the Kenai migration, How long there Accounts exist and if they are willing to due samething like that, I don't know. -- My private Homepage: http://www.raphaelbircher.ch/
Re: Community outreach to openoffice.org visitors?
Am 08/03/2011 11:41 PM, schrieb Raphael Bircher: Am 03.08.11 23:27, schrieb Rob Weir: On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote: Do you mean this? http://www.openoffic.org http://www.openoffic.org/news Or which landing pages do you have in mind? An idea: is there any easy way to get it into the header, so it is on every page? No, thats not easy, only a few people from Oracle has access to this area. As I know, the moast of the parts are writen by ause wich is not here. AFAIK the part is in Kenai itself and I've no access to it. Marcus Something like "News: Apache OpenOffice.org!" with a link, perhaps to a new blog post. We could first write a blog post, specifically reaching out to OOo community members and telling them how they can get involved. Then, once that is posted, get that link out broadly, via the OOo website, wiki, mailing lists, forums, Facebook page, Twitter, etc. It might make sense to wait until we first do the source migration and have Bugzilla, the wikis and forums migrated. But right around then would be a good time to put out the word.
Re: Community outreach to openoffice.org visitors?
Am 03.08.11 23:27, schrieb Rob Weir: On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote: Do you mean this? http://www.openoffic.org http://www.openoffic.org/news Or which landing pages do you have in mind? An idea: is there any easy way to get it into the header, so it is on every page? No, thats not easy, only a few people from Oracle has access to this area. As I know, the moast of the parts are writen by ause wich is not here. Something like "News: Apache OpenOffice.org!" with a link, perhaps to a new blog post. We could first write a blog post, specifically reaching out to OOo community members and telling them how they can get involved. Then, once that is posted, get that link out broadly, via the OOo website, wiki, mailing lists, forums, Facebook page, Twitter, etc. It might make sense to wait until we first do the source migration and have Bugzilla, the wikis and forums migrated. But right around then would be a good time to put out the word. -- My private Homepage: http://www.raphaelbircher.ch/
Re: Community outreach to openoffice.org visitors?
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote: > Do you mean this? > > http://www.openoffic.org > http://www.openoffic.org/news > > Or which landing pages do you have in mind? > An idea: is there any easy way to get it into the header, so it is on every page? Something like "News: Apache OpenOffice.org!" with a link, perhaps to a new blog post. We could first write a blog post, specifically reaching out to OOo community members and telling them how they can get involved. Then, once that is posted, get that link out broadly, via the OOo website, wiki, mailing lists, forums, Facebook page, Twitter, etc. It might make sense to wait until we first do the source migration and have Bugzilla, the wikis and forums migrated. But right around then would be a good time to put out the word. -Rob > Marcus > > > > Am 08/03/2011 09:29 PM, schrieb Shane Curcuru: >> >> (Taking the opportunity to Refactor a new thread on OpenOffice.org) >> >> Are there any short term plans to update the main landing pages of the >> existing OpenOffice.org website(s) to provide user awareness of the >> transition of the product and project to Apache? >> >> I don't know 1) how long it will take to actually get this transitioned, >> and 2) how hard it is to update the Oracle-hosted sites, but I think it >> would be really useful to have a few blurbs about the future plans of >> Apache OpenOffice get put on the existing OpenOffice.org site sooner >> rather than later. >> >> The blog feed on the homepage is nice, but not enough. >> >> Or is this too much for the moment? >> >> - Shane >
Re: Apache BarCamp - Oxford University Club, Sep 11
On 3 August 2011 22:20, Rob Weir wrote: > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Donald Harbison wrote: >> I am keen to help facilitate an Apache OpenOffice theme within the upcoming >> Apache BarCamp scheduled for Oxford on September 11[1]. >> In particular, it would be great if developers from both OpenOffice and >> LibreOffice could meetup. We can organically shape the event depending on >> who opts in. >> If you choose to do so, join up on the wiki as footnoted. I will definitely >> be there. FWIW. :) >> >> /don harbison >> > > I don't see any link, Don http://barcamp.org/w/page/400249/BarCampApacheOxford I'll be there, everyone welcome. Ross
Re: Apache BarCamp - Oxford University Club, Sep 11
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Donald Harbison wrote: > I am keen to help facilitate an Apache OpenOffice theme within the upcoming > Apache BarCamp scheduled for Oxford on September 11[1]. > In particular, it would be great if developers from both OpenOffice and > LibreOffice could meetup. We can organically shape the event depending on > who opts in. > If you choose to do so, join up on the wiki as footnoted. I will definitely > be there. FWIW. :) > > /don harbison > I don't see any link, Don -Rob
Re: Community outreach to openoffice.org visitors?
Am 08/03/2011 10:31 PM, schrieb Larry Gusaas: On 2011/08/03 2:26 PM Marcus (OOo) wrote: Sorry, of course I meant these: http://www.openoffice.org http://www.openoffice.org/news I think you knew this. ;-) Of course. But only after clicking on the previous links which opened a pop up in Safari which wouldn't go away until I force quit Safari. With Firefox I now was just moved to the page but without any further problems. I hate it also to restart my browser, sorry again for the inconvenience. Pretty smart spammer to take advantage of a left out letter in a URL Yeah, the typical domain grabber business. :-( Marcus
Re: OOO340 to svn - directory setup
Hi; --- On Wed, 8/3/11, Mathias Bauer wrote: ... > > As Stephan wrote, the structure can be changed easily > afterwards. > Building and packaging should follow dependencies (after > all that was the idea of our new build environment) and > so the directory structure is of second order importance. > > Besides that I agree that moving parts that are already > known to be no part of the regular OOo installation set > into separate top level directories makes sense. We just > shouldn't dive too deep into that now. > I agree. Moving around the directory structure would break bugzilla patches and make it difficult to merge some branches. We should really wait a bit and let the dust settle first. cheers, Pedro.
Re: OOO340 to svn - directory setup
Am 03.08.2011 21:23, schrieb Mathias Bauer: On 03.08.2011 10:38, IngridvdM wrote: Am 03.08.2011 10:24, schrieb Stephan Bergmann: On Aug 3, 2011, at 8:45 AM, IngridvdM wrote: Ok agreed, binfilter is not the best example. But what about the general idea to have a second directory where we can place all the stuff that is not needed to build the main office (so not needed in the usual day to day work of a code developer), but anyhow belongs to the product and to each codeline/release. Maybe templates or some extensions could qualify for this stuff. Maybe we have nothing right now but my point is, if we identify such things later I do not want to clutter the directory structure with more and more directories next to trunk. Remember, with svn the complete directory structure can always be changed. So I see no need to come up with a perfect solution up front. It is not only svn to think about. When it comes to building and packaging and creation of release branches there is easily a lot of scripting involved. Those things are often not so nice to change afterwards. So may we can think a day or two about a good directory structure before. ;-) As Stephan wrote, the structure can be changed easily afterwards. Building and packaging should follow dependencies (after all that was the idea of our new build environment) and so the directory structure is of second order importance. Besides that I agree that moving parts that are already known to be no part of the regular OOo installation set into separate top level directories makes sense. We just shouldn't dive too deep into that now. Agreed and it wasn't my point to dive deep into which single parts should be moved around. My point was only to prepare that we can move parts with less hassle later. I just want to prepare the target directory for such moves. Nothing more, nothing less. It is really a quite simple and quick question that could be solved right now. What directory setup do you prefer and why: 1) ooo/trunk/main/sw ooo/trunk/extras/l10n or 2) ooo/trunk/sw ooo/l10n I would prefer 1) because it accumulates all that belongs to the trunk code line in the trunk directory, while still allowing to easily check out only one directory for the typical day to day code development. Collecting more and more directories outside trunk that logically would belong to trunk, will complicate the creation of release branches unnecessarily. In addition something that is not logically is a problem in itself, because it confuses people. Kind regards, Ingrid Regards, Mathias
Re: Community outreach to openoffice.org visitors?
On 2011/08/03 2:26 PM Marcus (OOo) wrote: Sorry, of course I meant these: http://www.openoffice.org http://www.openoffice.org/news I think you knew this. ;-) Of course. But only after clicking on the previous links which opened a pop up in Safari which wouldn't go away until I force quit Safari. Pretty smart spammer to take advantage of a left out letter in a URL Larry -- _ Larry I. Gusaas Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada Website: http://larry-gusaas.com "An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - Edgard Varese
Re: Community outreach to openoffice.org visitors?
Sorry, of course I meant these: http://www.openoffice.org http://www.openoffice.org/news I think you knew this. ;-) Marcus Am 08/03/2011 10:13 PM, schrieb Larry Gusaas: On 2011/08/03 1:43 PM Marcus (OOo) wrote: Do you mean this? Or which landing pages do you have in mind? Marcus Why are you posting spam links? Both links leave out the final e in openoffice and take me to spam sites. Larry
Re: Community outreach to openoffice.org visitors?
On 2011/08/03 1:43 PM Marcus (OOo) wrote: Do you mean this? Or which landing pages do you have in mind? Marcus Why are you posting spam links? Both links leave out the final e in openoffice and take me to spam sites. Larry -- _ Larry I. Gusaas Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada Website: http://larry-gusaas.com "An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - Edgard Varese
Apache BarCamp - Oxford University Club, Sep 11
I am keen to help facilitate an Apache OpenOffice theme within the upcoming Apache BarCamp scheduled for Oxford on September 11[1]. In particular, it would be great if developers from both OpenOffice and LibreOffice could meetup. We can organically shape the event depending on who opts in. If you choose to do so, join up on the wiki as footnoted. I will definitely be there. FWIW. :) /don harbison
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
Here's an item cribbed from another list that is relevant to concerns about downloads and perhaps user-created content on OpenOffice.org: -Original Message- From: Roy T. Fielding [mailto:field...@gbiv.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 12:31 To: legal-disc...@apache.org Subject: Re: CDDL Source Availability On Aug 3, 2011, at 5:33 AM, Robert Burrell Donkin wrote: > CDDL 1.0[1] contains a source availability clause[2]. The CDDL is > Category B (Reciprocal License)[3] and so a reference to the source is > required in the NOTICE[4]. > > AIUI policy does not allow distribution of Category B source from Apache > (please jump in if I missed any changes). No. Policy is that it can't be distributed as part of our product. There is nothing stopping us from having a third-party dist on our website for other licensed code, provided it is clear that they are not our products. Roy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscr...@apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-h...@apache.org
Re: Community outreach to openoffice.org visitors?
On Aug 3, 2011, at 12:43 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote: > Do you mean this? > > http://www.openoffic.org > http://www.openoffic.org/news > > Or which landing pages do you have in mind? According to the svn from Kenai - Kay was the one who made the change to add the latest news on the main page. What do we want to say? Regards, Dave > > Marcus > > > > Am 08/03/2011 09:29 PM, schrieb Shane Curcuru: >> (Taking the opportunity to Refactor a new thread on OpenOffice.org) >> >> Are there any short term plans to update the main landing pages of the >> existing OpenOffice.org website(s) to provide user awareness of the >> transition of the product and project to Apache? >> >> I don't know 1) how long it will take to actually get this transitioned, >> and 2) how hard it is to update the Oracle-hosted sites, but I think it >> would be really useful to have a few blurbs about the future plans of >> Apache OpenOffice get put on the existing OpenOffice.org site sooner >> rather than later. >> >> The blog feed on the homepage is nice, but not enough. >> >> Or is this too much for the moment? >> >> - Shane
Re: Community outreach to openoffice.org visitors?
Do you mean this? http://www.openoffic.org http://www.openoffic.org/news Or which landing pages do you have in mind? Marcus Am 08/03/2011 09:29 PM, schrieb Shane Curcuru: (Taking the opportunity to Refactor a new thread on OpenOffice.org) Are there any short term plans to update the main landing pages of the existing OpenOffice.org website(s) to provide user awareness of the transition of the product and project to Apache? I don't know 1) how long it will take to actually get this transitioned, and 2) how hard it is to update the Oracle-hosted sites, but I think it would be really useful to have a few blurbs about the future plans of Apache OpenOffice get put on the existing OpenOffice.org site sooner rather than later. The blog feed on the homepage is nice, but not enough. Or is this too much for the moment? - Shane
Re: How to handle the downloads?
Am 08/03/2011 08:22 PM, schrieb Dave Fisher: Hi Marcus, This is really good. I've updated the diagram with more details and divided it into a 3-way-method: Download Choice #1: Of course the One-Click-Download URL. Download Choice #2: If an install file is not available (wrong OS, no language, etc.) the user can select from a pre-defined list. Download Choice #3: The user can search for himself the most appropriate mirror server. Essentially with a little "JS" magic we will choose between three different download pages. Ahm, not completely. You have to see the first 2 methods in the given order. I've corrected a missing "not" in the quote above. Only when #1 doesn't provide a working URL (the users should get notified about this fact, yes) they get redirected to #2. #3 is indeed only reachable from the side navigation. Pointing users to the raw mirror server should be our last intention. I think that the download/index.html page should show text about what is being identified and then an indication that a load to go to #2 or #3 is happening and why. If there is a delay of 10 seconds the user might want to choose #2 or #3 automatically. Yes, currently in OOo project this works well. The browser data gets read and the OS and language is shown in the green downlod box. And for this combination a URL gets created. Unfortunatelly it's also possible to get a non-working URL and this results in a 404 page. We haven't finished the exception catching so far. But new project, new try. ;-) And of course as now #2 and #3 are choices from the right side navigation. Yes. Marcus Am 08/03/2011 05:54 PM, schrieb Andy Brown: Marcus (OOo) wrote: Am 08/03/2011 04:54 PM, schrieb Andy Brown: Marcus (OOo) wrote: I've created a little diagram how I think the download has to work: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/download_process.png As it seems we cannot go on like we did with OOo the JS magic has to change a bit, how to recognize the language, OS and country to assemble the nearest mirror server + file name to get the download URL. Marcus Marcus, One thing I would like to ask. That the user _not_ be offered a file that does not exist. We both saw that with the OOo system to many times. From non-existent "with JRE" plus "language" to versions for Blackberry. Andy For the case of an unavailable mirror I've added the "File exists on mirror?" box. Here the non-exisiting URL should be catched and exchanged with a working one. But for the special things like OOo on Blackberry we need to catch such kind of impossibilities earlier. Maybe right after the user agent was read and it's clear if it's for Windows, Linux, Mac, Solaris or indeed something different. Thanks for the hint. Marcus Just trying to prevent known problems from happening again. Andy
Community outreach to openoffice.org visitors?
(Taking the opportunity to Refactor a new thread on OpenOffice.org) Are there any short term plans to update the main landing pages of the existing OpenOffice.org website(s) to provide user awareness of the transition of the product and project to Apache? I don't know 1) how long it will take to actually get this transitioned, and 2) how hard it is to update the Oracle-hosted sites, but I think it would be really useful to have a few blurbs about the future plans of Apache OpenOffice get put on the existing OpenOffice.org site sooner rather than later. The blog feed on the homepage is nice, but not enough. Or is this too much for the moment? - Shane
Re: OOO340 to svn - directory setup
On 03.08.2011 10:38, IngridvdM wrote: > Am 03.08.2011 10:24, schrieb Stephan Bergmann: >> On Aug 3, 2011, at 8:45 AM, IngridvdM wrote: >>> Ok agreed, binfilter is not the best example. >>> But what about the general idea to have a second directory where we can >>> place all the stuff that is not needed to build the main office (so not >>> needed in the usual day to day work of a code developer), but anyhow >>> belongs to the product and to each codeline/release. >>> Maybe templates or some extensions could qualify for this stuff. Maybe we >>> have nothing right now but my point is, if we identify such things later I >>> do not want to clutter the directory structure with more and more >>> directories next to trunk. >> >> Remember, with svn the complete directory structure can always be changed. >> So I see no need to come up with a perfect solution up front. >> > It is not only svn to think about. When it comes to building and > packaging and creation of release branches there is easily a lot of > scripting involved. Those things are often not so nice to change > afterwards. So may we can think a day or two about a good directory > structure before. ;-) As Stephan wrote, the structure can be changed easily afterwards. Building and packaging should follow dependencies (after all that was the idea of our new build environment) and so the directory structure is of second order importance. Besides that I agree that moving parts that are already known to be no part of the regular OOo installation set into separate top level directories makes sense. We just shouldn't dive too deep into that now. Regards, Mathias
Re: binfilter (was RE: OOO340 to svn)
On 03.08.2011 20:25, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: > What I managed to glean from the LibreOffice discussion lists is that > binfilter will be separately installable but probably not taken to > end-of-life. (As platforms change, it may be necessary to make new > builds of it.) Binfilter already is installable separately - on Windows it's an option in the setup that you can disable (and AFAIK it is disabled by default). What you probably mean is that they are discussing to make binfilter a component that is compatible cross versions and so does not need to be installed each time when a new version of the office program is installed. As this currently fails due to some dependencies between binfilter and "the rest of the office" that are not stable enough and might change in every release, this ends up in the discussion you mentioned: > There is also discussion about moving some annoying dependencies into > the binfilter (and other converter) branches in some case, so they > don't have to be maintained in sync with the main distro. That's nothing new and this has happened in the past already in several cases. I did that by myself on several occasions. But this approach is doomed to fail in at least two cases: GraphicObjects and vcl. At least it would require to refactor large parts of the binfilter code to be able to remove these dependencies. There are much more better places where time could be invested better. [Remark: IMHO the GraphicObject problem should be solvable with moderate effort, I doubt that this is the case for vcl.] But maybe this is just a problem because people want to see a problem in it. Though in theory binfilter creates some maintenance effort due to its remaining dependencies on other code, I can't remember a lot of necessary work on binfilter caused by these dependencies in the last years. In the past we already went the "remove annoying dependencies" road for binfilter: each time when a developer made huge changes in a module that would require larger code adjustments in binfilter, the module that was going to be changed was copied before the change and the unmodified copy was moved into binfilter (and hopefully ;-) stripped from all code not used in binfilter later). As I wrote, this doesn't work for the GraphicObject and vcl, but we already used it for most of the bigger modules with a lot of code changes, so I don't expect a lot of room for improvement here. It should be mentioned that this approach only optimized the work from a maintencance cost POV, but it made things worse in other areas: binfilter becomes bigger each time when a copied module was added, increasing both build time and size of the installation set. And even the optimization for maintenance cost is incomplete as the resulting code duplication will require duplicated work in the future at least in case security leaks are found (been there, done that ...). > There is also a thrust to make converters more cleanly-separated and > having the plugin APIs work successfully for them. Again, this is > the gist of it. It doesn't seem too far from ideas that have been > floated around here, though. I'm afraid that talking about stuff like this without actually knowing the code will at best create confusion. So all I will say about that here is: We don't have converters, we have filters. And some of them are cleanly separated already, some aren't. As long as the latter aren't going to be reimplemented anyway, there wouldn't be much sense in investing time into improving their modularity. Is binfilter the next "bike shed" we are targetting? Regards, Mathias
Re: status of OpenOffice logo?
The Incubator Branding Guide notes:
"Podlings websites SHOULD contain the Apache Incubator Project logo as
sign of affiliation."
More importantly, the key point is that podlings must ensure their
public websites make it clear they are a podling; or rather, that they
are not (yet) an official Apache project or product. Using the
incubator logo in some secondary page space is fine; likewise, the
footers or other secondary branding on the pages should note the podling
is undergoing Incubation.
Oh, yeah, the site does most of that that already! 8-)
I think it might be useful in this case to have a new "General" link to
a subpage about "What is Incubation" or something - i.e. a brief
overview of why it's incubating and what that means for end users and
the larger community.
Overall, the best idea is to figure out how this project wants to manage
it's branding with some more specific proposals, and then ask for
approvals/assistance from Apache Legal and Branding. Having concrete
questions to answer is much simpler.
- Shane
On 8/3/2011 2:25 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
Sounds good. I think there are some rules about how the Apache
symbols are used for in-incubator podlings. (There is a revealing
topic on T-shirts somewhere, either legal-discuss or
general-incubator, I think.)
- Dennis
-Original Message- From: Dave Fisher
[mailto:dave2w...@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011
10:33 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: status of
OpenOffice logo?
Hi Kay,
Amazing the volume of emails that came in while driving from San
Francisco to Los Angeles.
On Aug 3, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Kay Schenk wrote:
There are some first steps proceding with moving portions of the
existng OpenOffice.org site to Apache. See, for example,
http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/download/index.html
This page lacks headers and footers, which brings me to...
I know there's been discussion about the current OpenOffice.org
logo
Regenerate the current headers and footers, but it needs to be done
via wrapping in the Apache CMS.
In ooo/site/trunk/templates
sidenav.mdtext single_narrative.html skeleton.html
Take skeleton.html and make a ooo_skeleton.html
In ooo/site/trunk/lib
path.pm view.pm
In path.pm:
our @patterns = ( [qr!\.mdtext$!, single_narrative => { template =>
"single_narrative.html" }], ) ;
Add a pattern to identify the html that kenai wrapped before. This
will be tricky as there may be html that we want to just push through
- I think that was "*.html.html" file in Kenai.
This pattern can refer either directly to ooo_skeleton.html or refer
to an "ooo_narative.html" which refers to ooo_skeleton.html.
In view.pm we will need a python routine to pump content into the
markup.
For now concentrate on turning one or two to the current pages into a
"template" and then we can do the steps outlined above.
vis a vis trademarks, possible changes due to Apache etc.
But could someone give us an update on this?
When we have our samples together then I think we should describe to
Trademarks and Legal-Discuss what we have done. They'll tell us if we
need to change anything. The project might want to do a little "bike
shedding" on the design.
Can we use the existing logo without changes (i.e. ref to Apache?)
or ???
I thought we would add a small Apache feather to the header
somewhere, but the footer might be ok, too.
There seems to be few Apache projects. e.g Buildr, which don't seem
to use the Apache logo, and since there seems to be a consensus to
keep OpenOffice.org at a site openoffice.org, I'm wondering if we
can just proceed with what we ahve in terms of headers for web
pages without change.
A lot of projects have the Apache logo in one corner and the project
logo in the other.
My personal feeling is that the colors on the Apache feather clash
with the light sky blue of OOo. I have seen some examples where the
Feather has different colors but these may be legacy.
Regards, Dave
--
MzK
"If you can keep your head when all others around you are losing
theirs - maybe you don't fully understand the situation!" --
Unknown
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
Am 03.08.2011 17:04, schrieb Rob Weir: Some good points. Maybe we want to start (or steal) an FAQ on similar "netiquette" points? It might fit in the "Community FAQ's" section. There is a good one already at Apache: http://www.apache.org/dev/contrib-email-tips.html Maybe we can link it prominently from one of our main pages. Kind regards, Ingrid
RE: status of OpenOffice logo?
Sounds good. I think there are some rules about how the Apache symbols are
used for in-incubator podlings. (There is a revealing topic on T-shirts
somewhere, either legal-discuss or general-incubator, I think.)
- Dennis
-Original Message-
From: Dave Fisher [mailto:dave2w...@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 10:33
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: status of OpenOffice logo?
Hi Kay,
Amazing the volume of emails that came in while driving from San Francisco to
Los Angeles.
On Aug 3, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Kay Schenk wrote:
> There are some first steps proceding with moving portions of the existng
> OpenOffice.org site to Apache. See, for example,
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/download/index.html
>
> This page lacks headers and footers, which brings me to...
>
> I know there's been discussion about the current OpenOffice.org logo
Regenerate the current headers and footers, but it needs to be done via
wrapping in the Apache CMS.
In ooo/site/trunk/templates
sidenav.mdtext
single_narrative.html
skeleton.html
Take skeleton.html and make a ooo_skeleton.html
In ooo/site/trunk/lib
path.pm
view.pm
In path.pm:
our @patterns = (
[qr!\.mdtext$!, single_narrative => { template =>
"single_narrative.html" }],
) ;
Add a pattern to identify the html that kenai wrapped before. This will be
tricky as there may be html that we want to just push through - I think that
was "*.html.html" file in Kenai.
This pattern can refer either directly to ooo_skeleton.html or refer to an
"ooo_narative.html" which refers to ooo_skeleton.html.
In view.pm we will need a python routine to pump content into the markup.
For now concentrate on turning one or two to the current pages into a
"template" and then we can do the steps outlined above.
>
> vis a vis trademarks, possible changes due to Apache etc.
>
> But could someone give us an update on this?
When we have our samples together then I think we should describe to Trademarks
and Legal-Discuss what we have done. They'll tell us if we need to change
anything. The project might want to do a little "bike shedding" on the design.
>
> Can we use the existing logo without changes (i.e. ref to Apache?) or ???
I thought we would add a small Apache feather to the header somewhere, but the
footer might be ok, too.
>
> There seems to be few Apache projects. e.g Buildr, which don't seem to use
> the Apache logo, and since there seems to be a consensus to keep
> OpenOffice.org at a site openoffice.org, I'm wondering if we can just proceed
> with what we ahve in terms of headers for web pages without change.
A lot of projects have the Apache logo in one corner and the project logo in
the other.
My personal feeling is that the colors on the Apache feather clash with the
light sky blue of OOo. I have seen some examples where the Feather has
different colors but these may be legacy.
Regards,
Dave
>
> --
>
> MzK
>
> "If you can keep your head when all others around you
> are losing theirs - maybe you don't fully understand
> the situation!"
>-- Unknown
RE: binfilter (was RE: OOO340 to svn)
What I managed to glean from the LibreOffice discussion lists is that binfilter will be separately installable but probably not taken to end-of-life. (As platforms change, it may be necessary to make new builds of it.) There is also discussion about moving some annoying dependencies into the binfilter (and other converter) branches in some case, so they don't have to be maintained in sync with the main distro. This means there's potentially redundant maintenance. I am not sure where they went with that, and how far they can go with it. I also have no idea how the trees are being reorganized at LibreOffice. There is also a thrust to make converters more cleanly-separated and having the plugin APIs work successfully for them. Again, this is the gist of it. It doesn't seem too far from ideas that have been floated around here, though. I think we should have a mutual interest in coordinating more around this topic, since redundant development and maintenance of converters is a terrible tax on developer attention and resources. There is considerable interoperability impact, although maybe not so much for the very stable, near-ancient ones (although just staying up with RTF seems to be a serious challenge). - Dennis -Original Message- From: Malte Timmermann [mailto:malte_timmerm...@gmx.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 10:24 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: binfilter (was RE: OOO340 to svn) Binfilter will be good for many more time consuming discussions. Many different opinions on if/how to change them, many different opinions on if/why to keep them. Assuming that the binfilter source tree doesn't need clean-up because of IP / license issues, I suggest to simply keep the folder as it is, and think about further actions later. I really wouldn't spend resources on this topic now, as there are too many important things we need to achieve before. Not sure about the status of binfilter in LibreOffice - but IIRC, once the Linux distros where shipping Go-OO versions, they didn't include binfilters, and I can't imagine LibO being different here. As a side note - OOo 3.3 doesn't install binfilters per default anymore, and I can't remember anybody complaining/wondering/asking. In Oracle Open Office, we already had an EOL note for them. Malte. On 03.08.2011 18:19, eric b wrote: > > Le 3 août 11 à 17:49, Dennis E. Hamilton a écrit : > >> I believe LibreOffice is already taking action on binfilter, and it >> would be useful to see if we can match their approach. >> >> Also, I think there was (again on LibreOffice) a technical discussion >> on simplifying the dependencies. > > > I did a lot on simplifying the dependencies with OOo4Kids and OOoLight, > but before I need to know what you need to simplify. > > About binfilter, there are several issues : > > 1) the binfilter directory contains duplicated headers. I had a private > discussion about that with Jens Heiner Linkenau, aka ause, and I can > retrieve everything about the exact reasons why. > > 2) for compatibility reason, and as good compromise OpenOffice.org > should to continue to provide a way to "open" old format files > (staroffice 5.x for instance), and to propose to save them in a more > recent. > > 3) build binfilter means there are a lot of warnings, and warnings are > error. I worked a lot on remove warnings on binfilter, and I can help on > this side, if ever (or students can help for sure). > > > I got other ideas, about simplifying the build, but I'll keep them for a > best moment (too early now) > > >> This was initially by having redundancy, with the idea that a better >> refactoring would come later. > > > I must have missed some mails. What is the current plan ? > > > Regards, > Eric Bachard > >
Re: How to handle the downloads?
Hi Marcus, This is really good. > I've updated the diagram with more details and divided it into a 3-way-method: > > Download Choice #1: > Of course the One-Click-Download URL. > > Download Choice #2: > If an install file is available (wrong OS, no language, etc.) the user can > select from a pre-defined list. > > Download Choice #3: > The user can search for himself the most appropriate mirror server. Essentially with a little "JS" magic we will choose between three different download pages. I think that the download/index.html page should show text about what is being identified and then an indication that a load to go to #2 or #3 is happening and why. If there is a delay of 10 seconds the user might want to choose #2 or #3 automatically. And of course as now #2 and #3 are choices from the right side navigation. Regards, Dave > > Marcus > > > > Am 08/03/2011 05:54 PM, schrieb Andy Brown: >> Marcus (OOo) wrote: >>> Am 08/03/2011 04:54 PM, schrieb Andy Brown: Marcus (OOo) wrote: > I've created a little diagram how I think the download has to work: > > http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/download_process.png > > As it seems we cannot go on like we did with OOo the JS magic has to > change a bit, how to recognize the language, OS and country to assemble > the nearest mirror server + file name to get the download URL. > > Marcus Marcus, One thing I would like to ask. That the user _not_ be offered a file that does not exist. We both saw that with the OOo system to many times. From non-existent "with JRE" plus "language" to versions for Blackberry. Andy >>> >>> For the case of an unavailable mirror I've added the "File exists on >>> mirror?" box. Here the non-exisiting URL should be catched and exchanged >>> with a working one. >>> >>> But for the special things like OOo on Blackberry we need to catch such >>> kind of impossibilities earlier. Maybe right after the user agent was >>> read and it's clear if it's for Windows, Linux, Mac, Solaris or indeed >>> something different. >>> >>> Thanks for the hint. >>> >>> Marcus >>> >> >> Just trying to prevent known problems from happening again. >> >> Andy
RE: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
My reply is to Andy Brown's post, not one of yours. It appears that I failed to CC: him. I have no quarrel about figuring out where PPMC oversight goes and how it is exercised. I allowed for that in my response to Andy with regard to special-privileged cases. I chose not to drag that detail into the recognition of case (1) versus (2). - Dennis -Original Message- From: Rob Weir [mailto:apa...@robweir.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 10:04 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding) On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 12:55 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: > 1. Well, if we *have* to require an iCLA because we choose (or are limited > to) an approach that makes iCLA mandatory, there is nothing to be gained by > conducting a survey on the matter. > > 2. If we come up with an approach where nothing is changed with regard to > what is currently user-editable, we don't have to stir anything up by even > raising the iCLA question. > > So maybe we need to resolve whether we can offer (2). I believe there is > strong interest in being able to do that, especially in the short run. > I'm not discussing the iCLA. I'm talking about community development. I'm suggesting that we make the wiki contributors aware of the move to Apache and invite them to join. I'd like to do the same, via appropriate means, more broadly, to all of the OOo mailing lists, as well as on the website. > We have heard from infrastructure and security (via infrastructure) that > there are some technical arrangements to deal with, but I have seen nothing > that compels our disrupting current registrations and user-editing > permissions. (There are a modest number of special-privileged cases and they > should be dealt with as individually, seems to me.) > The PPMC needs to have a plan for how it exercises oversight over the project's websites, including the wiki. Having unknown, anonymous users, unknown to the PPMC, with the ability to ban users and delete pages is not a good start in exercising oversight. As was discussed previously on this thread, one approach was to ensure that anyone who had more-than-user rights would need to be approved in that role by the PPMC. > - Dennis > > -Original Message- > From: Andy Brown [mailto:a...@the-martin-byrd.net] > Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 09:35 > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org > Subject: Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was > re:OpenOffice.org branding) > > Dennis, > > We are working on some ideas only. There are questions on how to deal > with the current OOo wiki and move it to Apache servers. The concern is > that there will be a lose of "active" users if there is a big change in > the way edits are made, i.e. requiring an iCLA. At this point we do not > have any hard numbers on way maybe lost and trying to see if we can get > those users involved to see what path we need to take. > > HTH > Andy > > Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: >> Let's slow down here. I don't recognize any alignment on what it is we >> think we are asking for (or attempting to do). This is going way over the >> edge past JFDI and/or lazy consensus. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Andy Brown [mailto:a...@the-martin-byrd.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 09:00 >> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org >> Subject: Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was >> re:OpenOffice.org branding) >> >>> >> >> Terry, >> >> Where would be the best place on the wiki to place a notice directing >> users to connect here or at least see if they would be willing/able to >> send in an iCLA? >> >> Andy >> >> > >
Re: status of OpenOffice logo?
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 8:56 AM, Rob Weir wrote: > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Kay Schenk wrote: > > There are some first steps proceding with moving portions of the existng > > OpenOffice.org site to Apache. See, for example, > > > > http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/download/index.html > > > > This page lacks headers and footers, which brings me to... > > > > I know there's been discussion about the current OpenOffice.org logo > > > > vis a vis trademarks, possible changes due to Apache etc. > > > > But could someone give us an update on this? > > > > Can we use the existing logo without changes (i.e. ref to Apache?) or ??? > > > > Use the logo where? > Rob et al-- On the pages that are currently being migrated/created -- the link I sent above is essentially the current OO.o download page without headers/ footers. > > > There seems to be few Apache projects. e.g Buildr, which don't seem to > use > > the Apache logo, and since there seems to be a consensus to keep > > OpenOffice.org at a site openoffice.org, I'm wondering if we can just > > proceed with what we ahve in terms of headers for web pages without > change. > > > > Which headers and footers? The ones at OO.o that have the Oracle and > the Project Kenai logos and have the statement "Oracle and Java are > registered trademarks of Oracle and/or its affiliates"? I don't > think we will want to keep that page footer unchanged. > yes, right--of course we would exclude these references. > > I think the way to think of this is: > > 1) Oracle owns the trademark in the name "OpenOffice.org" and in the > graphical logo. This trademark is registered in several countries. > > 2) Oracle has stated that they will assign these trademarks to Apache. > This involves paperwork in multiple countries and will take time. > Andrew Rist is the best one to give an update on where they are in > that process. > ah, OK. Thanks. > > 3) Once transferred to Apache then we can use the logo per Apache > Branding Requirements: > http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs.html > > 4) If we want to create a different version of that logo (if that is > what you are asking about) then this is really two questions: > > a) Do we have the right to modify the logo? I think that would be > yes. We can create derived works if we own the copyright to the logo. > > b) What is the status of the modified logo? I have no idea what that > does in terms of trademark. In particular, would it mean we need to > register the modified logo? If this comes up as a direction we want > to take, we'd need to consult with Apache Branding on this. > OK, and thanks for your response. > > Regards, > > -Rob > > > -- > > > > MzK > > > > "If you can keep your head when all others around you > > are losing theirs - maybe you don't fully understand > > the situation!" > >-- Unknown > > > -- --- MzK "If you can keep your head when all others around you are losing theirs - maybe you don't fully understand the situation!" -- Unknown
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:25 AM, Ian Lynch wrote: > To be fair, an overly aggressive tone can do just as much poisoning as a > defensive one. I think it is also worth bearing in mind that a lot of people > here are not native English speakers and so it is easy to read things into > posts that were either not intended or were a subset of the entire situation > simply because it just takes too long to type reams in a foreign language > explaining every aspect of everything. Apart from the language issue, what > is considered bad form varies with culture so we should be wary of brute > logic from our own perspective as a tool for progress. We have to work > together and respect other people's position especially when most are doing > this for love rather than for money. It's not like in a company where you > can sack and replace people. We have lost good people in the past because > that wasn't understood and it's easier to keep people and their knowledge > resource than replace and retrain them. +1 - In my 10 years of managing a small group of Russian developers I discovered that the more I wrote the less was comprehended. We do best when I point and wait for the answer including the likelihood that my direction was not the best or only answer. I think we all need to use our listening skills and tone down the compulsion to have all the answers immediately available. Regards, Dave
Re: status of OpenOffice logo?
Hi Kay,
Amazing the volume of emails that came in while driving from San Francisco to
Los Angeles.
On Aug 3, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Kay Schenk wrote:
> There are some first steps proceding with moving portions of the existng
> OpenOffice.org site to Apache. See, for example,
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/download/index.html
>
> This page lacks headers and footers, which brings me to...
>
> I know there's been discussion about the current OpenOffice.org logo
Regenerate the current headers and footers, but it needs to be done via
wrapping in the Apache CMS.
In ooo/site/trunk/templates
sidenav.mdtext
single_narrative.html
skeleton.html
Take skeleton.html and make a ooo_skeleton.html
In ooo/site/trunk/lib
path.pm
view.pm
In path.pm:
our @patterns = (
[qr!\.mdtext$!, single_narrative => { template =>
"single_narrative.html" }],
) ;
Add a pattern to identify the html that kenai wrapped before. This will be
tricky as there may be html that we want to just push through - I think that
was "*.html.html" file in Kenai.
This pattern can refer either directly to ooo_skeleton.html or refer to an
"ooo_narative.html" which refers to ooo_skeleton.html.
In view.pm we will need a python routine to pump content into the markup.
For now concentrate on turning one or two to the current pages into a
"template" and then we can do the steps outlined above.
>
> vis a vis trademarks, possible changes due to Apache etc.
>
> But could someone give us an update on this?
When we have our samples together then I think we should describe to Trademarks
and Legal-Discuss what we have done. They'll tell us if we need to change
anything. The project might want to do a little "bike shedding" on the design.
>
> Can we use the existing logo without changes (i.e. ref to Apache?) or ???
I thought we would add a small Apache feather to the header somewhere, but the
footer might be ok, too.
>
> There seems to be few Apache projects. e.g Buildr, which don't seem to use
> the Apache logo, and since there seems to be a consensus to keep
> OpenOffice.org at a site openoffice.org, I'm wondering if we can just proceed
> with what we ahve in terms of headers for web pages without change.
A lot of projects have the Apache logo in one corner and the project logo in
the other.
My personal feeling is that the colors on the Apache feather clash with the
light sky blue of OOo. I have seen some examples where the Feather has
different colors but these may be legacy.
Regards,
Dave
>
> --
>
> MzK
>
> "If you can keep your head when all others around you
> are losing theirs - maybe you don't fully understand
> the situation!"
>-- Unknown
Re: binfilter (was RE: OOO340 to svn)
Binfilter will be good for many more time consuming discussions. Many different opinions on if/how to change them, many different opinions on if/why to keep them. Assuming that the binfilter source tree doesn't need clean-up because of IP / license issues, I suggest to simply keep the folder as it is, and think about further actions later. I really wouldn't spend resources on this topic now, as there are too many important things we need to achieve before. Not sure about the status of binfilter in LibreOffice - but IIRC, once the Linux distros where shipping Go-OO versions, they didn't include binfilters, and I can't imagine LibO being different here. As a side note - OOo 3.3 doesn't install binfilters per default anymore, and I can't remember anybody complaining/wondering/asking. In Oracle Open Office, we already had an EOL note for them. Malte. On 03.08.2011 18:19, eric b wrote: Le 3 août 11 à 17:49, Dennis E. Hamilton a écrit : I believe LibreOffice is already taking action on binfilter, and it would be useful to see if we can match their approach. Also, I think there was (again on LibreOffice) a technical discussion on simplifying the dependencies. I did a lot on simplifying the dependencies with OOo4Kids and OOoLight, but before I need to know what you need to simplify. About binfilter, there are several issues : 1) the binfilter directory contains duplicated headers. I had a private discussion about that with Jens Heiner Linkenau, aka ause, and I can retrieve everything about the exact reasons why. 2) for compatibility reason, and as good compromise OpenOffice.org should to continue to provide a way to "open" old format files (staroffice 5.x for instance), and to propose to save them in a more recent. 3) build binfilter means there are a lot of warnings, and warnings are error. I worked a lot on remove warnings on binfilter, and I can help on this side, if ever (or students can help for sure). I got other ideas, about simplifying the build, but I'll keep them for a best moment (too early now) This was initially by having redundancy, with the idea that a better refactoring would come later. I must have missed some mails. What is the current plan ? Regards, Eric Bachard
Re: Temporary issue tracking
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: > 1. Is the current OpenOffice.org bugzilla not operating? > > 2. If the issues are about the migration, maybe we should activate a piece > of the Apache JIRA so we can be more systematic, figuring out how to > retire/merge it when the OpenOffice.org bugzilla comes over in whatever form > we need it in. Then we at least get notices on ooo-dev (I presume). > > 3. Or maybe it is simply time to agree on whether we will be using JIRA or > bugzilla and find a way to start using it on the Apache side now, in a way > that won't get in the way of a merge of the OpenOffice.org when we're ready > to throw that switch. > If you want to push for something heavier, then I'm fine with that also. But the wiki is sufficient for me, for now, to dump issues. > - Dennis > > -Original Message- > From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org] > Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 08:20 > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org > Subject: Temporary issue tracking > > I have some random issues in the back of my head that I know we need > to resolve at some point, but not now, but I don't want to forget > them. I'm going to start listing them at the bottom of the Project > Planning wiki page here: > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Project+Planning > > I invite you to do the same. > > I'm recommending that these be small, standalone, actionable items, > things that would have been added to JIRA or Bugzilla if we had it set > up now. Larger items that would require multiple steps to resolve, > probably belong on their own planning page. But think of this "Open > Issues" list as a holding pen until we have Bugzilla migrated. > > Regards, > > -Rob > >
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 12:55 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: > 1. Well, if we *have* to require an iCLA because we choose (or are limited > to) an approach that makes iCLA mandatory, there is nothing to be gained by > conducting a survey on the matter. > > 2. If we come up with an approach where nothing is changed with regard to > what is currently user-editable, we don't have to stir anything up by even > raising the iCLA question. > > So maybe we need to resolve whether we can offer (2). I believe there is > strong interest in being able to do that, especially in the short run. > I'm not discussing the iCLA. I'm talking about community development. I'm suggesting that we make the wiki contributors aware of the move to Apache and invite them to join. I'd like to do the same, via appropriate means, more broadly, to all of the OOo mailing lists, as well as on the website. > We have heard from infrastructure and security (via infrastructure) that > there are some technical arrangements to deal with, but I have seen nothing > that compels our disrupting current registrations and user-editing > permissions. (There are a modest number of special-privileged cases and they > should be dealt with as individually, seems to me.) > The PPMC needs to have a plan for how it exercises oversight over the project's websites, including the wiki. Having unknown, anonymous users, unknown to the PPMC, with the ability to ban users and delete pages is not a good start in exercising oversight. As was discussed previously on this thread, one approach was to ensure that anyone who had more-than-user rights would need to be approved in that role by the PPMC. > - Dennis > > -Original Message- > From: Andy Brown [mailto:a...@the-martin-byrd.net] > Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 09:35 > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org > Subject: Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was > re:OpenOffice.org branding) > > Dennis, > > We are working on some ideas only. There are questions on how to deal > with the current OOo wiki and move it to Apache servers. The concern is > that there will be a lose of "active" users if there is a big change in > the way edits are made, i.e. requiring an iCLA. At this point we do not > have any hard numbers on way maybe lost and trying to see if we can get > those users involved to see what path we need to take. > > HTH > Andy > > Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: >> Let's slow down here. I don't recognize any alignment on what it is we >> think we are asking for (or attempting to do). This is going way over the >> edge past JFDI and/or lazy consensus. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Andy Brown [mailto:a...@the-martin-byrd.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 09:00 >> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org >> Subject: Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was >> re:OpenOffice.org branding) >> >>> >> >> Terry, >> >> Where would be the best place on the wiki to place a notice directing >> users to connect here or at least see if they would be willing/able to >> send in an iCLA? >> >> Andy >> >> > >
Re: status of OpenOffice logo?
Am 08/03/2011 06:46 PM, schrieb Rob Weir: On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote: Am 08/03/2011 05:56 PM, schrieb Rob Weir: On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Kay Schenkwrote: There are some first steps proceding with moving portions of the existng OpenOffice.org site to Apache. See, for example, http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/download/index.html This page lacks headers and footers, which brings me to... I know there's been discussion about the current OpenOffice.org logo vis a vis trademarks, possible changes due to Apache etc. But could someone give us an update on this? Can we use the existing logo without changes (i.e. ref to Apache?) or ??? Use the logo where? see the link above? Oh, that page. That is just a prototype, right? We're not linking to it from the Podling website, right? Right, we just play a bit with the file to see how they behave and look like inside the Apache infrastructure. The biggest difference to the original pages are now header and footer. We need to have a separate discussion if we want to start offering downloads of legacy OOo releases from the Apache side. From the website perspective, yes, we want consistent branding. But we also need to make it clear that those are not Apache files and are not under the Apache 2.0 license. My suggestion: We can create a legacy webpage for non-Apache releases with an own and static branding as exception. All other webpages can get a new branding from templates, CSS, etc. There seems to be few Apache projects. e.g Buildr, which don't seem to use the Apache logo, and since there seems to be a consensus to keep OpenOffice.org at a site openoffice.org, I'm wondering if we can just proceed with what we ahve in terms of headers for web pages without change. Which headers and footers? The ones at OO.o that have the Oracle and the Project Kenai logos and have the statement "Oracle and Java are registered trademarks of Oracle and/or its affiliates"? I don't think we will want to keep that page footer unchanged. Of course some things have to be exchanged. But I think Kay means if we can keep the general wording/formulation the same or do we need to change them totally. We should also review the privacy policy, the disclaimer, the terms of use, etc. We should probably harmonize with whatever Apache uses. So I don't think anything from the footer other than "This page was last modified on..." can be assumed to be reusable as-is. OK, seems to become a totally new one. ;-) The header, however, is wonderful. I wouldn't change that. It might be worth starting a thread on "web site design". Maybe we want a redesign for a "re-launch" timed to our first Apache release? -Rob Marcus
RE: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
1. Well, if we *have* to require an iCLA because we choose (or are limited to) an approach that makes iCLA mandatory, there is nothing to be gained by conducting a survey on the matter. 2. If we come up with an approach where nothing is changed with regard to what is currently user-editable, we don't have to stir anything up by even raising the iCLA question. So maybe we need to resolve whether we can offer (2). I believe there is strong interest in being able to do that, especially in the short run. We have heard from infrastructure and security (via infrastructure) that there are some technical arrangements to deal with, but I have seen nothing that compels our disrupting current registrations and user-editing permissions. (There are a modest number of special-privileged cases and they should be dealt with as individually, seems to me.) - Dennis -Original Message- From: Andy Brown [mailto:a...@the-martin-byrd.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 09:35 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding) Dennis, We are working on some ideas only. There are questions on how to deal with the current OOo wiki and move it to Apache servers. The concern is that there will be a lose of "active" users if there is a big change in the way edits are made, i.e. requiring an iCLA. At this point we do not have any hard numbers on way maybe lost and trying to see if we can get those users involved to see what path we need to take. HTH Andy Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: > Let's slow down here. I don't recognize any alignment on what it is we think > we are asking for (or attempting to do). This is going way over the edge > past JFDI and/or lazy consensus. > > -Original Message- > From: Andy Brown [mailto:a...@the-martin-byrd.net] > Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 09:00 > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org > Subject: Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was > re:OpenOffice.org branding) > >> > > Terry, > > Where would be the best place on the wiki to place a notice directing > users to connect here or at least see if they would be willing/able to > send in an iCLA? > > Andy > >
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
I'll give you the context, from earlier in the thread. > A specific question then that should not require diverting your > current efforts. Is there a announcement list or some other mechanism > to send an email to every registered wiki user? > > I don't want to take time away from your higher priority migration > work, but if some such facility were available, we could work (on this > list) on a note that we could send later, to notify all users of the > migration, explain some relevant aspects of the new Apache project, > and invite them to join us. I believe that answers your questions. We're talking technical possibilities. Any message would discussed on the list before being sent or posted. -Rob On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: > Let's slow down here. I don't recognize any alignment on what it is we think > we are asking for (or attempting to do). This is going way over the edge > past JFDI and/or lazy consensus. > > -Original Message- > From: Andy Brown [mailto:a...@the-martin-byrd.net] > Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 09:00 > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org > Subject: Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was > re:OpenOffice.org branding) > >> > > Terry, > > Where would be the best place on the wiki to place a notice directing > users to connect here or at least see if they would be willing/able to > send in an iCLA? > > Andy > >
Re: status of OpenOffice logo?
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote: > Am 08/03/2011 05:56 PM, schrieb Rob Weir: >> >> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Kay Schenk wrote: >>> >>> There are some first steps proceding with moving portions of the existng >>> OpenOffice.org site to Apache. See, for example, >>> >>> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/download/index.html >>> >>> This page lacks headers and footers, which brings me to... >>> >>> I know there's been discussion about the current OpenOffice.org logo >>> >>> vis a vis trademarks, possible changes due to Apache etc. >>> >>> But could someone give us an update on this? >>> >>> Can we use the existing logo without changes (i.e. ref to Apache?) or ??? >>> >> >> Use the logo where? > > see the link above? > Oh, that page. That is just a prototype, right? We're not linking to it from the Podling website, right? We need to have a separate discussion if we want to start offering downloads of legacy OOo releases from the Apache side. From the website perspective, yes, we want consistent branding. But we also need to make it clear that those are not Apache files and are not under the Apache 2.0 license. >>> There seems to be few Apache projects. e.g Buildr, which don't seem to >>> use >>> the Apache logo, and since there seems to be a consensus to keep >>> OpenOffice.org at a site openoffice.org, I'm wondering if we can just >>> proceed with what we ahve in terms of headers for web pages without >>> change. >>> >> >> Which headers and footers? The ones at OO.o that have the Oracle and >> the Project Kenai logos and have the statement "Oracle and Java are >> registered trademarks of Oracle and/or its affiliates"? I don't >> think we will want to keep that page footer unchanged. > > Of course some things have to be exchanged. But I think Kay means if we can > keep the general wording/formulation the same or do we need to change them > totally. > We should also review the privacy policy, the disclaimer, the terms of use, etc. We should probably harmonize with whatever Apache uses. So I don't think anything from the footer other than "This page was last modified on..." can be assumed to be reusable as-is.The header, however, is wonderful. I wouldn't change that. It might be worth starting a thread on "web site design". Maybe we want a redesign for a "re-launch" timed to our first Apache release? -Rob > >
Re: How to handle the downloads?
I've updated the diagram with more details and divided it into a 3-way-method: Download Choice #1: Of course the One-Click-Download URL. Download Choice #2: If an install file is available (wrong OS, no language, etc.) the user can select from a pre-defined list. Download Choice #3: The user can search for himself the most appropriate mirror server. Marcus Am 08/03/2011 05:54 PM, schrieb Andy Brown: Marcus (OOo) wrote: Am 08/03/2011 04:54 PM, schrieb Andy Brown: Marcus (OOo) wrote: I've created a little diagram how I think the download has to work: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/download_process.png As it seems we cannot go on like we did with OOo the JS magic has to change a bit, how to recognize the language, OS and country to assemble the nearest mirror server + file name to get the download URL. Marcus Marcus, One thing I would like to ask. That the user _not_ be offered a file that does not exist. We both saw that with the OOo system to many times. From non-existent "with JRE" plus "language" to versions for Blackberry. Andy For the case of an unavailable mirror I've added the "File exists on mirror?" box. Here the non-exisiting URL should be catched and exchanged with a working one. But for the special things like OOo on Blackberry we need to catch such kind of impossibilities earlier. Maybe right after the user agent was read and it's clear if it's for Windows, Linux, Mac, Solaris or indeed something different. Thanks for the hint. Marcus Just trying to prevent known problems from happening again. Andy
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
Dennis, We are working on some ideas only. There are questions on how to deal with the current OOo wiki and move it to Apache servers. The concern is that there will be a lose of "active" users if there is a big change in the way edits are made, i.e. requiring an iCLA. At this point we do not have any hard numbers on way maybe lost and trying to see if we can get those users involved to see what path we need to take. HTH Andy Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: Let's slow down here. I don't recognize any alignment on what it is we think we are asking for (or attempting to do). This is going way over the edge past JFDI and/or lazy consensus. -Original Message- From: Andy Brown [mailto:a...@the-martin-byrd.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 09:00 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding) Terry, Where would be the best place on the wiki to place a notice directing users to connect here or at least see if they would be willing/able to send in an iCLA? Andy
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
Oracle Email Signature Logo Andrew Rist | Interoperability Architect Oracle Corporate Architecture Group Redwood Shores, CA | 650.506.9847 On 8/3/2011 8:15 AM, Rob Weir wrote: On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Terry Ellison wrote: On 03/08/11 15:14, Rob Weir wrote: A specific question then that should not require diverting your current efforts. Is there a announcement list or some other mechanism to send an email to every registered wiki user? At a technical level, it's simple to run a query dumping all of the mail addresses of contributors to the wiki. I've just done a few on my local VM which has a snapshot of the prod wiki as at Thursday/Fri night IIRC. * There are 34,969 registered users. Of which * 3,675 have made contributions. There is no need to contact those who haven't * 3,623 have registered email addresses and have made 182,677 contributions * 52 have no registered email addresses and have made 153 contributions (prob dating back to the early days when email registration and confirmation wasn't mandatory It is trivial to dump this list of user / email addr / post count. However giving this to Apache and the project making use of it is a more complex issue. The server is current located in Oracle's Hamburg facility under German / EU legislation. We have data protection legislation and Anti-Spam guidelines / legislation to bear in mind here. Moving email addresses across national and organisational boundary might trigger these. Also one can't send out mailshot emails in the EU unless the recipients have first agreed in principle to accept these. What I can do is to provide this data to Andrew via the internal Oracle email, and let him figure out the legal / compliance issues and terms of use before him making it available to the project. Not my call. Good enough. Thanks. I was hoping that there would be some community email list that everyone was already signed up on. Maybe if not at the wiki system level, then at the OpenOffice.org level? If there is a master announce list that everyone is already on, then we'd be golden. It is extremely unlikely that any such list will be officially donated. We are working on the transfer of the hosting of the Forum and Wiki. Once they have been transferred, this may be something that can be done as a part of managing these properties. Terry
Re: status of OpenOffice logo?
Am 08/03/2011 05:56 PM, schrieb Rob Weir: On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Kay Schenk wrote: There are some first steps proceding with moving portions of the existng OpenOffice.org site to Apache. See, for example, http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/download/index.html This page lacks headers and footers, which brings me to... I know there's been discussion about the current OpenOffice.org logo vis a vis trademarks, possible changes due to Apache etc. But could someone give us an update on this? Can we use the existing logo without changes (i.e. ref to Apache?) or ??? Use the logo where? see the link above? There seems to be few Apache projects. e.g Buildr, which don't seem to use the Apache logo, and since there seems to be a consensus to keep OpenOffice.org at a site openoffice.org, I'm wondering if we can just proceed with what we ahve in terms of headers for web pages without change. Which headers and footers? The ones at OO.o that have the Oracle and the Project Kenai logos and have the statement "Oracle and Java are registered trademarks of Oracle and/or its affiliates"? I don't think we will want to keep that page footer unchanged. Of course some things have to be exchanged. But I think Kay means if we can keep the general wording/formulation the same or do we need to change them totally. Marcus
Re: binfilter (was RE: OOO340 to svn)
Le 3 août 11 à 17:49, Dennis E. Hamilton a écrit : I believe LibreOffice is already taking action on binfilter, and it would be useful to see if we can match their approach. Also, I think there was (again on LibreOffice) a technical discussion on simplifying the dependencies. I did a lot on simplifying the dependencies with OOo4Kids and OOoLight, but before I need to know what you need to simplify. About binfilter, there are several issues : 1) the binfilter directory contains duplicated headers. I had a private discussion about that with Jens Heiner Linkenau, aka ause, and I can retrieve everything about the exact reasons why. 2) for compatibility reason, and as good compromise OpenOffice.org should to continue to provide a way to "open" old format files (staroffice 5.x for instance), and to propose to save them in a more recent. 3) build binfilter means there are a lot of warnings, and warnings are error. I worked a lot on remove warnings on binfilter, and I can help on this side, if ever (or students can help for sure). I got other ideas, about simplifying the build, but I'll keep them for a best moment (too early now) This was initially by having redundancy, with the idea that a better refactoring would come later. I must have missed some mails. What is the current plan ? Regards, Eric Bachard -- qɔᴉɹə Education Project: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news
RE: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
What message is that? Can we get more concrete here, please. -Original Message- From: Rob Weir [mailto:apa...@robweir.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 08:59 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding) [ ... ] Good point. I've seen Wikipedia handle this type of broadcast communication by injecting content into every page, via a header template or whatever. You see that for their fund raising campaigns or surveys, for example. We might be able to do something like that and get the message out.
RE: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
Let's slow down here. I don't recognize any alignment on what it is we think we are asking for (or attempting to do). This is going way over the edge past JFDI and/or lazy consensus. -Original Message- From: Andy Brown [mailto:a...@the-martin-byrd.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 09:00 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding) > Terry, Where would be the best place on the wiki to place a notice directing users to connect here or at least see if they would be willing/able to send in an iCLA? Andy
RE: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
I suppose it is rather obvious that we have moved far afield from the subject line here. At this point, I have no idea what problem there being a master announce list solves: 1. What is it proposed to be used for? 2. Who will be doing that and speaking for whom? - Dennis -Original Message- From: Rob Weir [mailto:apa...@robweir.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 08:15 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding) [ ... ] Good enough. Thanks. I was hoping that there would be some community email list that everyone was already signed up on. Maybe if not at the wiki system level, then at the OpenOffice.org level? If there is a master announce list that everyone is already on, then we'd be golden.
RE: Temporary issue tracking
1. Is the current OpenOffice.org bugzilla not operating? 2. If the issues are about the migration, maybe we should activate a piece of the Apache JIRA so we can be more systematic, figuring out how to retire/merge it when the OpenOffice.org bugzilla comes over in whatever form we need it in. Then we at least get notices on ooo-dev (I presume). 3. Or maybe it is simply time to agree on whether we will be using JIRA or bugzilla and find a way to start using it on the Apache side now, in a way that won't get in the way of a merge of the OpenOffice.org when we're ready to throw that switch. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 08:20 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Temporary issue tracking I have some random issues in the back of my head that I know we need to resolve at some point, but not now, but I don't want to forget them. I'm going to start listing them at the bottom of the Project Planning wiki page here: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Project+Planning I invite you to do the same. I'm recommending that these be small, standalone, actionable items, things that would have been added to JIRA or Bugzilla if we had it set up now. Larger items that would require multiple steps to resolve, probably belong on their own planning page. But think of this "Open Issues" list as a holding pen until we have Bugzilla migrated. Regards, -Rob
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
TerryE wrote: (Some) developers for some arcane reason seem to like DLs. AFAIK, others and the majority of users hate them and regard them as spam, preferring less invasive pull technologies such as forums and subscription services such as gmane. For example, I routinely work 6 forums and 4 wikis, plus a dozen gname lists. This is the only SMTP DL that I am on. Announce Lists just don't work in this end-user world. Terry, Where would be the best place on the wiki to place a notice directing users to connect here or at least see if they would be willing/able to send in an iCLA? Andy
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:44 AM, TerryE wrote: > On 03/08/11 16:15, Rob Weir wrote: >> >> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Terry Ellison >> wrote: >>> >>> On 03/08/11 15:14, Rob Weir wrote: A specific question then that should not require diverting your current efforts. Is there a announcement list or some other mechanism to send an email to every registered wiki user? >>> >>> At a technical level, it's simple to run a query dumping all of the mail >>> addresses of contributors to the wiki. I've just done a few on my local >>> VM >>> which has a snapshot of the prod wiki as at Thursday/Fri night IIRC. >>> >>> * There are 34,969 registered users. Of which >>> * 3,675 have made contributions. There is no need to contact those >>> who haven't >>> * 3,623 have registered email addresses and have made 182,677 >>> contributions >>> * 52 have no registered email addresses and have made 153 >>> contributions (prob dating back to the early days when email >>> registration and confirmation wasn't mandatory >>> >>> It is trivial to dump this list of user / email addr / post count. >>> >>> However giving this to Apache and the project making use of it is a more >>> complex issue. The server is current located in Oracle's Hamburg >>> facility >>> under German / EU legislation. We have data protection legislation and >>> Anti-Spam guidelines / legislation to bear in mind here. Moving email >>> addresses across national and organisational boundary might trigger >>> these. >>> Also one can't send out mailshot emails in the EU unless the recipients >>> have first agreed in principle to accept these. >>> >>> What I can do is to provide this data to Andrew via the internal Oracle >>> email, and let him figure out the legal / compliance issues and terms of >>> use >>> before him making it available to the project. Not my call. >>> >> Good enough. Thanks. I was hoping that there would be some community >> email list that everyone was already signed up on. Maybe if not at >> the wiki system level, then at the OpenOffice.org level? If there is >> a master announce list that everyone is already on, then we'd be >> golden. >> > (Some) developers for some arcane reason seem to like DLs. AFAIK, others > and the majority of users hate them and regard them as spam, preferring less > invasive pull technologies such as forums and subscription services such as > gmane. For example, I routinely work 6 forums and 4 wikis, plus a dozen > gname lists. This is the only SMTP DL that I am on. Announce Lists just > don't work in this end-user world. > Good point. I've seen Wikipedia handle this type of broadcast communication by injecting content into every page, via a header template or whatever. You see that for their fund raising campaigns or surveys, for example. We might be able to do something like that and get the message out.
Re: status of OpenOffice logo?
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Kay Schenk wrote: > There are some first steps proceding with moving portions of the existng > OpenOffice.org site to Apache. See, for example, > > http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/download/index.html > > This page lacks headers and footers, which brings me to... > > I know there's been discussion about the current OpenOffice.org logo > > vis a vis trademarks, possible changes due to Apache etc. > > But could someone give us an update on this? > > Can we use the existing logo without changes (i.e. ref to Apache?) or ??? > Use the logo where? > There seems to be few Apache projects. e.g Buildr, which don't seem to use > the Apache logo, and since there seems to be a consensus to keep > OpenOffice.org at a site openoffice.org, I'm wondering if we can just > proceed with what we ahve in terms of headers for web pages without change. > Which headers and footers? The ones at OO.o that have the Oracle and the Project Kenai logos and have the statement "Oracle and Java are registered trademarks of Oracle and/or its affiliates"? I don't think we will want to keep that page footer unchanged. I think the way to think of this is: 1) Oracle owns the trademark in the name "OpenOffice.org" and in the graphical logo. This trademark is registered in several countries. 2) Oracle has stated that they will assign these trademarks to Apache. This involves paperwork in multiple countries and will take time. Andrew Rist is the best one to give an update on where they are in that process. 3) Once transferred to Apache then we can use the logo per Apache Branding Requirements: http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs.html 4) If we want to create a different version of that logo (if that is what you are asking about) then this is really two questions: a) Do we have the right to modify the logo? I think that would be yes. We can create derived works if we own the copyright to the logo. b) What is the status of the modified logo? I have no idea what that does in terms of trademark. In particular, would it mean we need to register the modified logo? If this comes up as a direction we want to take, we'd need to consult with Apache Branding on this. Regards, -Rob > -- > > MzK > > "If you can keep your head when all others around you > are losing theirs - maybe you don't fully understand > the situation!" > -- Unknown >
Re: How to handle the downloads?
On 3 August 2011 16:16, Marcus (OOo) wrote: > Am 08/03/2011 04:57 PM, schrieb Ross Gardler: ... >> If that's the case then ignore my mail. > > Hm, not really, as we could bring together both magics into one process. OH, that bit is "easy" the "choose mirror" part of your "JS Magic" would request info from the existing mirror CGI code (might need some tweaks to provide the data in a usable form, but I'm sure infra@ are happy to help there once requirements are clear). Ross -- Ross Gardler (@rgardler) Programme Leader (Open Development) OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: How to handle the downloads?
Marcus (OOo) wrote: Am 08/03/2011 04:54 PM, schrieb Andy Brown: Marcus (OOo) wrote: I've created a little diagram how I think the download has to work: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/download_process.png As it seems we cannot go on like we did with OOo the JS magic has to change a bit, how to recognize the language, OS and country to assemble the nearest mirror server + file name to get the download URL. Marcus Marcus, One thing I would like to ask. That the user _not_ be offered a file that does not exist. We both saw that with the OOo system to many times. From non-existent "with JRE" plus "language" to versions for Blackberry. Andy For the case of an unavailable mirror I've added the "File exists on mirror?" box. Here the non-exisiting URL should be catched and exchanged with a working one. But for the special things like OOo on Blackberry we need to catch such kind of impossibilities earlier. Maybe right after the user agent was read and it's clear if it's for Windows, Linux, Mac, Solaris or indeed something different. Thanks for the hint. Marcus Just trying to prevent known problems from happening again. Andy
binfilter (was RE: OOO340 to svn)
I believe LibreOffice is already taking action on binfilter, and it would be useful to see if we can match their approach. Also, I think there was (again on LibreOffice) a technical discussion on simplifying the dependencies. This was initially by having redundancy, with the idea that a better refactoring would come later. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Jürgen Schmidt [mailto:jogischm...@googlemail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 23:12 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: OOO340 to svn On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 12:28 AM, Eike Rathke wrote: > Hi IngridvdM, > > On Tuesday, 2011-08-02 20:17:52 +0200, IngridvdM wrote: > > > >The Hg archive should simply replicate the current structure at OOo, > > >also for ease of adding in pending CWSs as branches, so a separate l10n > > >repository. > > > > > Another good argument to separate l10n from trunk was given in an > > earlier thread: This way it is easier for developers to get only > > what they will need usually and spare the extra time and space. > > > > I think this is a good argument and I wonder whether we shouldn't be > > prepared to identify more such stuff - for example the binfilter. > > The problem with binfilter is that it depends on modules not in > binfilter, changing them incompatibly may entail changes necessary to > binfilter, those changes should be in one changeset, which I think is > not possible when not in trunk, insights anyone? > > well binfilter is maybe not the best example because in the long term we should think about the elimination of binfilter completely. Announcing the end of life of these filters, then allow the import only for some time and the next step is to drop it ... Juergen > Eike > > -- > PGP/OpenPGP/GnuPG encrypted mail preferred in all private communication. > Key ID: 0x293C05FD - 997A 4C60 CE41 0149 0DB3 9E96 2F1A D073 293C 05FD >
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
On 03/08/11 16:15, Rob Weir wrote: On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Terry Ellison wrote: On 03/08/11 15:14, Rob Weir wrote: A specific question then that should not require diverting your current efforts. Is there a announcement list or some other mechanism to send an email to every registered wiki user? At a technical level, it's simple to run a query dumping all of the mail addresses of contributors to the wiki. I've just done a few on my local VM which has a snapshot of the prod wiki as at Thursday/Fri night IIRC. * There are 34,969 registered users. Of which * 3,675 have made contributions. There is no need to contact those who haven't * 3,623 have registered email addresses and have made 182,677 contributions * 52 have no registered email addresses and have made 153 contributions (prob dating back to the early days when email registration and confirmation wasn't mandatory It is trivial to dump this list of user / email addr / post count. However giving this to Apache and the project making use of it is a more complex issue. The server is current located in Oracle's Hamburg facility under German / EU legislation. We have data protection legislation and Anti-Spam guidelines / legislation to bear in mind here. Moving email addresses across national and organisational boundary might trigger these. Also one can't send out mailshot emails in the EU unless the recipients have first agreed in principle to accept these. What I can do is to provide this data to Andrew via the internal Oracle email, and let him figure out the legal / compliance issues and terms of use before him making it available to the project. Not my call. Good enough. Thanks. I was hoping that there would be some community email list that everyone was already signed up on. Maybe if not at the wiki system level, then at the OpenOffice.org level? If there is a master announce list that everyone is already on, then we'd be golden. (Some) developers for some arcane reason seem to like DLs. AFAIK, others and the majority of users hate them and regard them as spam, preferring less invasive pull technologies such as forums and subscription services such as gmane. For example, I routinely work 6 forums and 4 wikis, plus a dozen gname lists. This is the only SMTP DL that I am on. Announce Lists just don't work in this end-user world.
status of OpenOffice logo?
There are some first steps proceding with moving portions of the existng OpenOffice.org site to Apache. See, for example, http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/download/index.html This page lacks headers and footers, which brings me to... I know there's been discussion about the current OpenOffice.org logo vis a vis trademarks, possible changes due to Apache etc. But could someone give us an update on this? Can we use the existing logo without changes (i.e. ref to Apache?) or ??? There seems to be few Apache projects. e.g Buildr, which don't seem to use the Apache logo, and since there seems to be a consensus to keep OpenOffice.org at a site openoffice.org, I'm wondering if we can just proceed with what we ahve in terms of headers for web pages without change. -- MzK "If you can keep your head when all others around you are losing theirs - maybe you don't fully understand the situation!" -- Unknown
Temporary issue tracking
I have some random issues in the back of my head that I know we need to resolve at some point, but not now, but I don't want to forget them. I'm going to start listing them at the bottom of the Project Planning wiki page here: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Project+Planning I invite you to do the same. I'm recommending that these be small, standalone, actionable items, things that would have been added to JIRA or Bugzilla if we had it set up now. Larger items that would require multiple steps to resolve, probably belong on their own planning page. But think of this "Open Issues" list as a holding pen until we have Bugzilla migrated. Regards, -Rob
Re: How to handle the downloads?
Am 08/03/2011 04:54 PM, schrieb Andy Brown: Marcus (OOo) wrote: I've created a little diagram how I think the download has to work: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/download_process.png As it seems we cannot go on like we did with OOo the JS magic has to change a bit, how to recognize the language, OS and country to assemble the nearest mirror server + file name to get the download URL. Marcus Marcus, One thing I would like to ask. That the user _not_ be offered a file that does not exist. We both saw that with the OOo system to many times. From non-existent "with JRE" plus "language" to versions for Blackberry. Andy For the case of an unavailable mirror I've added the "File exists on mirror?" box. Here the non-exisiting URL should be catched and exchanged with a working one. But for the special things like OOo on Blackberry we need to catch such kind of impossibilities earlier. Maybe right after the user agent was read and it's clear if it's for Windows, Linux, Mac, Solaris or indeed something different. Thanks for the hint. Marcus
Re: How to handle the downloads?
On 08/02/2011 01:45 PM, Dave Fisher wrote: Kay, <-- lots snipped --> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/www/index.html ok, I jsut updated my svn trunk but before you added this I guess. I'll take a look. I'll start a new thread on something related -- a new logo. Will be there soon. I think I committed more at once than I should. There is a lot of deadwood there that should be removed. Regards, Dave To get headers and footers a template is needed and the view.pm will need adjustment. See http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/website-local.html#directory_layout thanks for this info as well... Regards, Dave -- MzK "If you can keep your head when all others around you are losing theirs - maybe you don't fully understand the situation!" -- Unknown
Re: How to handle the downloads?
Am 08/03/2011 04:57 PM, schrieb Ross Gardler: On 3 August 2011 15:53, Ross Gardler wrote: On 3 August 2011 15:47, Marcus (OOo) wrote: I've created a little diagram how I think the download has to work: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/download_process.png As it seems we cannot go on like we did with OOo the JS magic has to change a bit, how to recognize the language, OS and country to assemble the nearest mirror server + file name to get the download URL. I'm still struggling to understand why the existing ASF process for selecting the nearest mirror is not appropriate for this. If you use the existing infrastructure then all your "JS Magic" is not necessary (although I confess to not knowing exactly how the ASF mirror system works, for me it just works). Oh, wait, the penny might have dropped. Is the "JS Magic" doing more than finding a mirror? e.g. it is deciding which language pack to download etc. Yes, we have to recognize the language and OS to know the appropriate install file to assemble the correct download URL. If that's the case then ignore my mail. Hm, not really, as we could bring together both magics into one process. Marcus
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Terry Ellison wrote: > On 03/08/11 15:14, Rob Weir wrote: >> >> A specific question then that should not require diverting your >> current efforts. Is there a announcement list or some other mechanism >> to send an email to every registered wiki user? > > At a technical level, it's simple to run a query dumping all of the mail > addresses of contributors to the wiki. I've just done a few on my local VM > which has a snapshot of the prod wiki as at Thursday/Fri night IIRC. > > * There are 34,969 registered users. Of which > * 3,675 have made contributions. There is no need to contact those > who haven't > * 3,623 have registered email addresses and have made 182,677 > contributions > * 52 have no registered email addresses and have made 153 > contributions (prob dating back to the early days when email > registration and confirmation wasn't mandatory > > It is trivial to dump this list of user / email addr / post count. > > However giving this to Apache and the project making use of it is a more > complex issue. The server is current located in Oracle's Hamburg facility > under German / EU legislation. We have data protection legislation and > Anti-Spam guidelines / legislation to bear in mind here. Moving email > addresses across national and organisational boundary might trigger these. > Also one can't send out mailshot emails in the EU unless the recipients > have first agreed in principle to accept these. > > What I can do is to provide this data to Andrew via the internal Oracle > email, and let him figure out the legal / compliance issues and terms of use > before him making it available to the project. Not my call. > Good enough. Thanks. I was hoping that there would be some community email list that everyone was already signed up on. Maybe if not at the wiki system level, then at the OpenOffice.org level? If there is a master announce list that everyone is already on, then we'd be golden. > Terry > >
Re: How to handle the downloads?
Am 08/03/2011 04:53 PM, schrieb Ross Gardler: On 3 August 2011 15:47, Marcus (OOo) wrote: I've created a little diagram how I think the download has to work: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/download_process.png As it seems we cannot go on like we did with OOo the JS magic has to change a bit, how to recognize the language, OS and country to assemble the nearest mirror server + file name to get the download URL. I'm still struggling to understand why the existing ASF process for selecting the nearest mirror is not appropriate for this. If you use the existing infrastructure then all your "JS Magic" is not necessary (although I confess to not knowing exactly how the ASF mirror system works, for me it just works). I've not said that the ASF process is not appropriate. ;-) For OOo we had our own and I know that and how it's working. However, at the moment I've no clue of the ASF process. Therefore I've first created some boxes to show what is important. If all that we need is already available and working, then fine. So, when we can agree on the diagram, then I would try to figure out how the ASF process works. Marcus Am 08/02/2011 01:34 AM, schrieb Marcus (OOo): Am 08/02/2011 01:00 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler: On 1 August 2011 23:42, Marcus (OOo) wrote: Am 08/02/2011 12:15 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler: ... The ASF does not care what your download page looks like as long as you use the CGI scripts to ensure that an appropriate mirror site is used. Hm, let's see how independent the download thing really will be. ;-) Why don't you mock-up 9in the CMS) what you want the download page to look like, without linking it in from elsewhere. Once that is done then we can look at making the download.cgi work the way you want it. Good idea. Will do so. We still need someone to work with infra@ to ensure the mirror network can cope with the load, but I'm sure that will be handled in good time. Marcus
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
On 03/08/11 15:14, Rob Weir wrote: A specific question then that should not require diverting your current efforts. Is there a announcement list or some other mechanism to send an email to every registered wiki user? At a technical level, it's simple to run a query dumping all of the mail addresses of contributors to the wiki. I've just done a few on my local VM which has a snapshot of the prod wiki as at Thursday/Fri night IIRC. * There are 34,969 registered users. Of which * 3,675 have made contributions. There is no need to contact those who haven't * 3,623 have registered email addresses and have made 182,677 contributions * 52 have no registered email addresses and have made 153 contributions (prob dating back to the early days when email registration and confirmation wasn't mandatory It is trivial to dump this list of user / email addr / post count. However giving this to Apache and the project making use of it is a more complex issue. The server is current located in Oracle's Hamburg facility under German / EU legislation. We have data protection legislation and Anti-Spam guidelines / legislation to bear in mind here. Moving email addresses across national and organisational boundary might trigger these. Also one can't send out mailshot emails in the EU unless the recipients have first agreed in principle to accept these. What I can do is to provide this data to Andrew via the internal Oracle email, and let him figure out the legal / compliance issues and terms of use before him making it available to the project. Not my call. Terry
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Ian Lynch wrote: > On 3 August 2011 15:10, Rob Weir wrote: > >> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Andre Schnabel >> wrote: >> > Hi Rob, >> > >> >> Von: Rob Weir >> > >> >> > >> >> > I think there is a difference between informed hypothesis and >> >> speculation >> >> > :-) >> >> >> >> And neither is the same as facts. I'm concerned when I hear >> >> paternalistic statements of "our contributors will never post patches" >> >> or "They would never ever sign the iCLA", or "If we don't let them >> >> contribute anonymously with 1-character passwords and fake names under >> >> an eclectic license of their choice then they will kill themselves". >> > >> > Well maybe - just maybe - you may consider that the people who try to >> give >> > you some advice have been dealing with exactly those type of contributors >> > for the last couple of years, while IBM (according to your own words >> > was not the best citizen in the Ooo community ecosystem). >> > >> >> I do consider that. I'm sure their views are honestly held. I'm not >> ignoring them. But there is a huge difference between an opinion on >> what you personally would prefer or do versus an opinion on what you >> think thousands of others would prefer or do. I can accept the former >> while giving much less weight to the latter. I see no reason to accept >> as the gospel truth the views of 3 people claiming to speak for >> thousands when we have the easy ability to reach out to the thousands >> directly. >> >> > Btw. I have mot seen anybody stating such statements as you quote. The >> only >> > thing i saw was people pointing to risks. You may ignore a certain amount >> > of risks, but finally these sum up. >> > >> >> There are risk either way. For example, the risk of having a wiki >> containing product documentation that no one can copy or modify >> because it is not under a proper license. >> >> > You need not care about me (I'm not an apache committer) but it's sad >> that >> > you even try to ignore those people who are strongly committed to OOo at >> > apache. >> > >> >> Generally, it is in bad form to start every conversation with a >> statement along the lines of, "You probably will ignore me" or "You >> may not care what I say" or "You'll probably will think this is a bad >> idea", etc. Have enough respect for your own ideas that you think >> they are worthy of serious consideration. And have enough respect for >> others on the list that you assume that they will consider your >> thoughts serious. It poisons the conversation from the start when you >> start in a defensive tone. >> > > To be fair, an overly aggressive tone can do just as much poisoning as a > defensive one. I think it is also worth bearing in mind that a lot of people > here are not native English speakers and so it is easy to read things into > posts that were either not intended or were a subset of the entire situation > simply because it just takes too long to type reams in a foreign language > explaining every aspect of everything. Apart from the language issue, what > is considered bad form varies with culture so we should be wary of brute > logic from our own perspective as a tool for progress. We have to work > together and respect other people's position especially when most are doing > this for love rather than for money. It's not like in a company where you > can sack and replace people. We have lost good people in the past because > that wasn't understood and it's easier to keep people and their knowledge > resource than replace and retrain them. > Some good points. Maybe we want to start (or steal) an FAQ on similar "netiquette" points? It might fit in the "Community FAQ's" section. > Regards, >> >> -Rob >> >> > >> > regards, >> > >> > André >> > >> > PS: again a scnr: >> > http://geekandpoke.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341d3df553ef01538f1979c0970b-pi >> > >> > >> > -- > Ian > > Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ) > > www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 > > The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, > Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and > Wales. >
Re: How to handle the downloads?
On 3 August 2011 15:53, Ross Gardler wrote: > On 3 August 2011 15:47, Marcus (OOo) wrote: >> I've created a little diagram how I think the download has to work: >> >> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/download_process.png >> >> As it seems we cannot go on like we did with OOo the JS magic has to change >> a bit, how to recognize the language, OS and country to assemble the nearest >> mirror server + file name to get the download URL. > > I'm still struggling to understand why the existing ASF process for > selecting the nearest mirror is not appropriate for this. > > If you use the existing infrastructure then all your "JS Magic" is not > necessary (although I confess to not knowing exactly how the ASF > mirror system works, for me it just works). Oh, wait, the penny might have dropped. Is the "JS Magic" doing more than finding a mirror? e.g. it is deciding which language pack to download etc. If that's the case then ignore my mail. Ross
Re: How to handle the downloads?
Marcus (OOo) wrote: I've created a little diagram how I think the download has to work: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/download_process.png As it seems we cannot go on like we did with OOo the JS magic has to change a bit, how to recognize the language, OS and country to assemble the nearest mirror server + file name to get the download URL. Marcus Marcus, One thing I would like to ask. That the user _not_ be offered a file that does not exist. We both saw that with the OOo system to many times. From non-existent "with JRE" plus "language" to versions for Blackberry. Andy
Re: How to handle the downloads?
On 3 August 2011 15:47, Marcus (OOo) wrote: > I've created a little diagram how I think the download has to work: > > http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/download_process.png > > As it seems we cannot go on like we did with OOo the JS magic has to change > a bit, how to recognize the language, OS and country to assemble the nearest > mirror server + file name to get the download URL. I'm still struggling to understand why the existing ASF process for selecting the nearest mirror is not appropriate for this. If you use the existing infrastructure then all your "JS Magic" is not necessary (although I confess to not knowing exactly how the ASF mirror system works, for me it just works). Ross > > Marcus > > > > Am 08/02/2011 01:34 AM, schrieb Marcus (OOo): >> >> Am 08/02/2011 01:00 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler: >>> >>> On 1 August 2011 23:42, Marcus (OOo) wrote: Am 08/02/2011 12:15 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler: >>> >>> ... >>> > The ASF does not care what your download page looks like as long as > you use the CGI scripts to ensure that an appropriate mirror site is > used. Hm, let's see how independent the download thing really will be. ;-) >>> >>> Why don't you mock-up 9in the CMS) what you want the download page to >>> look like, without linking it in from elsewhere. Once that is done >>> then we can look at making the download.cgi work the way you want it. >> >> Good idea. Will do so. >> >>> We still need someone to work with infra@ to ensure the mirror network >>> can cope with the load, but I'm sure that will be handled in good >>> time. >> >> Marcus > -- Ross Gardler (@rgardler) Programme Leader (Open Development) OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 10:06 AM, Andre Schnabel wrote: > Hi, > >> Von: Rob Weir > >> > >> > There is no need to try to find something in my mails what I didn't >> actually write. >> > >> >> Andre, perhaps you forgot, but you did speculate on this earlier in >> the thread, when you wrote: > > Oh, sorry, but I did not see this as speculation ... > >> >> On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Andre Schnabel >> wrote: >> >> Von: Rob Weir >> >> >> >> And I'm not seeing a lot of activity at the OpenOffice.org wiki either: >> >> >> >> >> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&from=20110702130619&days=30&limit=500 >> >> >> >> What does that prove? >> > >> > >> > that OpenOffice.org is a project with (still) a strong name but without >> > community contributions? > > If there are no contributions, then there are no contributions. Plain simple > logic to me. > > But ok, your's might be different. > > Still speculation. The alternative speculation (or theory, or hypothesis, or informed speculation or hypothesis with a cherry on top) is that there are thousands of contributors, out there, but they have nothing to work on right now, since they typically are more engaged at certain points of the product release cycle. Personally, I think extrapolations from the past are almost worthless at this point. We have ODFAuthors,org now. We have LibreOffice. We have less investment from Oracle. We have more investment from IBM. OpenOffice has moved to Apache. And we have interest from new contributors who were not involved in OOo previously. We can't just assume that the sun rises the next day, the rooster crows (or is it the other way around?) and everything is exactly the same it was before. There will be changes and not all of the changes will be ones that we control. But we will not succeed if we just go on auto-pilot and pretend that it is 2008. I don't have all the answers. Far from it. But I hope I have some of the questions. > André >
Re: How to handle the downloads?
I've created a little diagram how I think the download has to work: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/download_process.png As it seems we cannot go on like we did with OOo the JS magic has to change a bit, how to recognize the language, OS and country to assemble the nearest mirror server + file name to get the download URL. Marcus Am 08/02/2011 01:34 AM, schrieb Marcus (OOo): Am 08/02/2011 01:00 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler: On 1 August 2011 23:42, Marcus (OOo) wrote: Am 08/02/2011 12:15 AM, schrieb Ross Gardler: ... The ASF does not care what your download page looks like as long as you use the CGI scripts to ensure that an appropriate mirror site is used. Hm, let's see how independent the download thing really will be. ;-) Why don't you mock-up 9in the CMS) what you want the download page to look like, without linking it in from elsewhere. Once that is done then we can look at making the download.cgi work the way you want it. Good idea. Will do so. We still need someone to work with infra@ to ensure the mirror network can cope with the load, but I'm sure that will be handled in good time. Marcus
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
On 3 August 2011 15:10, Rob Weir wrote: > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Andre Schnabel > wrote: > > Hi Rob, > > > >> Von: Rob Weir > > > >> > > >> > I think there is a difference between informed hypothesis and > >> speculation > >> > :-) > >> > >> And neither is the same as facts. I'm concerned when I hear > >> paternalistic statements of "our contributors will never post patches" > >> or "They would never ever sign the iCLA", or "If we don't let them > >> contribute anonymously with 1-character passwords and fake names under > >> an eclectic license of their choice then they will kill themselves". > > > > Well maybe - just maybe - you may consider that the people who try to > give > > you some advice have been dealing with exactly those type of contributors > > for the last couple of years, while IBM (according to your own words > > was not the best citizen in the Ooo community ecosystem). > > > > I do consider that. I'm sure their views are honestly held. I'm not > ignoring them. But there is a huge difference between an opinion on > what you personally would prefer or do versus an opinion on what you > think thousands of others would prefer or do. I can accept the former > while giving much less weight to the latter. I see no reason to accept > as the gospel truth the views of 3 people claiming to speak for > thousands when we have the easy ability to reach out to the thousands > directly. > > > Btw. I have mot seen anybody stating such statements as you quote. The > only > > thing i saw was people pointing to risks. You may ignore a certain amount > > of risks, but finally these sum up. > > > > There are risk either way. For example, the risk of having a wiki > containing product documentation that no one can copy or modify > because it is not under a proper license. > > > You need not care about me (I'm not an apache committer) but it's sad > that > > you even try to ignore those people who are strongly committed to OOo at > > apache. > > > > Generally, it is in bad form to start every conversation with a > statement along the lines of, "You probably will ignore me" or "You > may not care what I say" or "You'll probably will think this is a bad > idea", etc. Have enough respect for your own ideas that you think > they are worthy of serious consideration. And have enough respect for > others on the list that you assume that they will consider your > thoughts serious. It poisons the conversation from the start when you > start in a defensive tone. > To be fair, an overly aggressive tone can do just as much poisoning as a defensive one. I think it is also worth bearing in mind that a lot of people here are not native English speakers and so it is easy to read things into posts that were either not intended or were a subset of the entire situation simply because it just takes too long to type reams in a foreign language explaining every aspect of everything. Apart from the language issue, what is considered bad form varies with culture so we should be wary of brute logic from our own perspective as a tool for progress. We have to work together and respect other people's position especially when most are doing this for love rather than for money. It's not like in a company where you can sack and replace people. We have lost good people in the past because that wasn't understood and it's easier to keep people and their knowledge resource than replace and retrain them. Regards, > > -Rob > > > > > regards, > > > > André > > > > PS: again a scnr: > > http://geekandpoke.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341d3df553ef01538f1979c0970b-pi > > > > > -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ) www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales.
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 10:02 AM, Terry Ellison wrote: > > Rob, a nice polemic but why is it relevant to a point about /usage patterns/ > on the wiki. I am already working 12+ hours a day on migration this /pro > bono/, not salaried by some company to do my job. If you want hard data to > inform the decision making process, then ranting at people working to their > limit really doesn't help. Perhaps you can get an account on the prod wiki > and do the analysis yourself. Regards Terry > A specific question then that should not require diverting your current efforts. Is there a announcement list or some other mechanism to send an email to every registered wiki user? I don't want to take time away from your higher priority migration work, but if some such facility were available, we could work (on this list) on a note that we could send later, to notify all users of the migration, explain some relevant aspects of the new Apache project, and invite them to join us. Regards, -Rob
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Andre Schnabel wrote: > Hi Rob, > >> Von: Rob Weir > >> > >> > I think there is a difference between informed hypothesis and >> speculation >> > :-) >> >> And neither is the same as facts. I'm concerned when I hear >> paternalistic statements of "our contributors will never post patches" >> or "They would never ever sign the iCLA", or "If we don't let them >> contribute anonymously with 1-character passwords and fake names under >> an eclectic license of their choice then they will kill themselves". > > Well maybe - just maybe - you may consider that the people who try to give > you some advice have been dealing with exactly those type of contributors > for the last couple of years, while IBM (according to your own words > was not the best citizen in the Ooo community ecosystem). > I do consider that. I'm sure their views are honestly held. I'm not ignoring them. But there is a huge difference between an opinion on what you personally would prefer or do versus an opinion on what you think thousands of others would prefer or do. I can accept the former while giving much less weight to the latter. I see no reason to accept as the gospel truth the views of 3 people claiming to speak for thousands when we have the easy ability to reach out to the thousands directly. > Btw. I have mot seen anybody stating such statements as you quote. The only > thing i saw was people pointing to risks. You may ignore a certain amount > of risks, but finally these sum up. > There are risk either way. For example, the risk of having a wiki containing product documentation that no one can copy or modify because it is not under a proper license. > You need not care about me (I'm not an apache committer) but it's sad that > you even try to ignore those people who are strongly committed to OOo at > apache. > Generally, it is in bad form to start every conversation with a statement along the lines of, "You probably will ignore me" or "You may not care what I say" or "You'll probably will think this is a bad idea", etc. Have enough respect for your own ideas that you think they are worthy of serious consideration. And have enough respect for others on the list that you assume that they will consider your thoughts serious. It poisons the conversation from the start when you start in a defensive tone. Regards, -Rob > > regards, > > André > > PS: again a scnr: > http://geekandpoke.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341d3df553ef01538f1979c0970b-pi > >
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
Hi, > Von: Rob Weir > > > > There is no need to try to find something in my mails what I didn't > actually write. > > > > Andre, perhaps you forgot, but you did speculate on this earlier in > the thread, when you wrote: Oh, sorry, but I did not see this as speculation ... > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Andre Schnabel > wrote: > >> Von: Rob Weir > >> > >> And I'm not seeing a lot of activity at the OpenOffice.org wiki either: > >> > >> > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&from=20110702130619&days=30&limit=500 > >> > >> What does that prove? > > > > > > that OpenOffice.org is a project with (still) a strong name but without > > community contributions? If there are no contributions, then there are no contributions. Plain simple logic to me. But ok, your's might be different. André
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
On 3 August 2011 14:45, Andre Schnabel wrote: > Hi Rob, > > > Von: Rob Weir > > > > > Sorry, replacing Andre's speculation with your speculation is not the > > same as introducing facts. > > I did not do any speculation in my mail, the only thing I did was > to quote (again) Manfred's questions (that you did not see before). > > A simple: > - no I did not poke the data from a year ago > and > - no I will not speculations why access to OOo wiki is increasing or > decreasing > > would have been sufficient answers. > > > There is no need to try to find something in my mails what I didn't > actually write. > > regards, > > André > By informed hypothesis I meant TerryE's "Once you've got to grips with OOo and have been through a release cycle then you will come to understand the basic rhythm of update activity. Whilst scoping the content of a new version and the dev releases there is an upturn in R/W activity as members reflect this in the wiki and use the wiki to collaborate on ideas. Following the release, there is a hump in end-user demand both to learn about new features or because this has triggered rework of macros, etc. A good way to kill the update rates and drop the read rates is to stall the upgrade cycle as happened back in April. This is the main cause of the read and update trends that we are discussing. " Maybe I got the wrong end of the stick, if so, sorry. I'll go back to what I think I can do to have the biggest effect on OOo take up. (My own informed opinion, or perhaps speculation ;-) ) -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ) www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales.
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
On 03/08/11 14:38, Rob Weir wrote: On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:20 AM, Ian Lynch wrote: On 3 August 2011 14:14, Rob Weir wrote: Ah. OK. He was asking for speculation on why the traffic is less now than a year ago. Impossible to say, since I can't find any data on what the traffic actually was a year ago. One way to back speculation with facts would be to get a log of edits from last year, gather the editors who were most active then, and contact them with a set of survey questions. Rob, I think that I covered this point to some degree in an earlier post today :-) //Terry Sorry, replacing Andre's speculation with your speculation is not the same as introducing facts. -Rob I think there is a difference between informed hypothesis and speculation :-) Thanks, I have been monitoring the wiki from the system side since early 2010, and the forums for over 5 years. So I do have relevant /experience/ of usage patterns. Unfortunately, I just don't have the time to do the quantitative analysis because of my other workload. And neither is the same as facts. I'm concerned when I hear paternalistic statements of "our contributors will never post patches" or "They would never ever sign the iCLA", or "If we don't let them contribute anonymously with 1-character passwords and fake names under an eclectic license of their choice then they will kill themselves". Have we asked them? Are we really certain that all 35,000 registered wiki users are incapable or unwilling to sign a piece of paper and mail it to Apache? Have we had this conversation with them? Have we even brought it up? Have we explained the workings of Apache projects to them and how the meritocracy works? Have we even sent all registered wiki users a note, telling them that we're moving to Apache and inviting them to join us? Have we proposed the idea of the iCLA to them and explained the benefits to them, how it would ensure the license to their contributions was clear and ensures that their contributions could then be reused by others? I really expect more, much more, from our PPMC members, in terms of community outreach and community development. These are important goals for the project. This is not achieved by having 2 or 3 people claiming to speak for the opinions of thousands. It is done by reaching out to those thousands and showing them the benefits of working at Apache, and inviting them to join us here. Rob, a nice polemic but why is it relevant to a point about /usage patterns/ on the wiki. I am already working 12+ hours a day on migration this /pro bono/, not salaried by some company to do my job. If you want hard data to inform the decision making process, then ranting at people working to their limit really doesn't help. Perhaps you can get an account on the prod wiki and do the analysis yourself. Regards Terry
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
Hi Rob, > Von: Rob Weir > > > > I think there is a difference between informed hypothesis and > speculation > > :-) > > And neither is the same as facts. I'm concerned when I hear > paternalistic statements of "our contributors will never post patches" > or "They would never ever sign the iCLA", or "If we don't let them > contribute anonymously with 1-character passwords and fake names under > an eclectic license of their choice then they will kill themselves". Well maybe - just maybe - you may consider that the people who try to give you some advice have been dealing with exactly those type of contributors for the last couple of years, while IBM (according to your own words was not the best citizen in the Ooo community ecosystem). Btw. I have mot seen anybody stating such statements as you quote. The only thing i saw was people pointing to risks. You may ignore a certain amount of risks, but finally these sum up. You need not care about me (I'm not an apache committer) but it's sad that you even try to ignore those people who are strongly committed to OOo at apache. regards, André PS: again a scnr: http://geekandpoke.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341d3df553ef01538f1979c0970b-pi
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Andre Schnabel wrote: > Hi Rob, > >> Von: Rob Weir > >> >> Sorry, replacing Andre's speculation with your speculation is not the >> same as introducing facts. > > I did not do any speculation in my mail, the only thing I did was > to quote (again) Manfred's questions (that you did not see before). > > A simple: > - no I did not poke the data from a year ago > and > - no I will not speculations why access to OOo wiki is increasing or > decreasing > > would have been sufficient answers. > > > There is no need to try to find something in my mails what I didn't actually > write. > Andre, perhaps you forgot, but you did speculate on this earlier in the thread, when you wrote: On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Andre Schnabel wrote: > Hi, > > Original-Nachricht >> Von: Rob Weir > >> > We already have two separate wikis, one that the community uses and one >> that requires committers to make the changes. I notice the second one is >> not getting much activity. >> > >> >> And I'm not seeing a lot of activity at the OpenOffice.org wiki either: >> >> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&from=20110702130619&days=30&limit=500 >> >> What does that prove? > > > that OpenOffice.org is a project with (still) a strong name but without > community contributions? > > scnr > > André > > regards, > > André > > >
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
Hi Rob, > Von: Rob Weir > > Sorry, replacing Andre's speculation with your speculation is not the > same as introducing facts. I did not do any speculation in my mail, the only thing I did was to quote (again) Manfred's questions (that you did not see before). A simple: - no I did not poke the data from a year ago and - no I will not speculations why access to OOo wiki is increasing or decreasing would have been sufficient answers. There is no need to try to find something in my mails what I didn't actually write. regards, André
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:20 AM, Ian Lynch wrote: > On 3 August 2011 14:14, Rob Weir wrote: > >> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:02 AM, TerryE wrote: >> > On 03/08/11 13:57, Rob Weir wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Andre Schnabel >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Hi Rob, >> >>> >> >>> Original-Nachricht >> >> Von: Rob Weir >> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 2:39 AM, Manfred A. Reiter> > >> wrote: >> > >> > 2011/8/3 Rob Weir >> >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 6:10 PM, Manfred A. Reiter< >> ma.rei...@gmail.com> >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> 2011/8/2 Rob Weir >> >>> >> >>> >> >> Curiously, it reports only 5 of the 35,020 users as having been >> >> active >> >> in the past 7 days. >> >> >>> did you poked around 1 year ago as well? >> >>> do you have an explanation, why these numbers are slowing down? >> >>> >> >>> ... >> > >> > 2. May be, my english is not good enough to understand, wheather your >> > your response answers my questions. >> > >> If you have an unanswered question, please restate it, >> >>> >> >>> It's still in the quoted mail. >> >>> >> perhaps >> rephrase if you think it was originally misunderstood. >> >>> >> >>> Afaics there is nothing to be misunderstood in the (two) question(s). >> >>> >> >> Ah. OK. He was asking for speculation on why the traffic is less now >> >> than a year ago. Impossible to say, since I can't find any data on >> >> what the traffic actually was a year ago. One way to back speculation >> >> with facts would be to get a log of edits from last year, gather the >> >> editors who were most active then, and contact them with a set of >> >> survey questions. >> >> >> > Rob, I think that I covered this point to some degree in an earlier post >> > today :-) //Terry >> > >> >> Sorry, replacing Andre's speculation with your speculation is not the >> same as introducing facts. >> >> -Rob >> >> > >> > > I think there is a difference between informed hypothesis and speculation > :-) And neither is the same as facts. I'm concerned when I hear paternalistic statements of "our contributors will never post patches" or "They would never ever sign the iCLA", or "If we don't let them contribute anonymously with 1-character passwords and fake names under an eclectic license of their choice then they will kill themselves". Have we asked them? Are we really certain that all 35,000 registered wiki users are incapable or unwilling to sign a piece of paper and mail it to Apache? Have we had this conversation with them? Have we even brought it up? Have we explained the workings of Apache projects to them and how the meritocracy works? Have we even sent all registered wiki users a note, telling them that we're moving to Apache and inviting them to join us? Have we proposed the idea of the iCLA to them and explained the benefits to them, how it would ensure the license to their contributions was clear and ensures that their contributions could then be reused by others? I really expect more, much more, from our PPMC members, in terms of community outreach and community development. These are important goals for the project. This is not achieved by having 2 or 3 people claiming to speak for the opinions of thousands. It is done by reaching out to those thousands and showing them the benefits of working at Apache, and inviting them to join us here. -Rob > > -- > Ian > > Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ) > > www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 > > The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, > Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and > Wales. >
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
On 3 August 2011 14:14, Rob Weir wrote: > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:02 AM, TerryE wrote: > > On 03/08/11 13:57, Rob Weir wrote: > >> > >> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Andre Schnabel > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Rob, > >>> > >>> Original-Nachricht > > Von: Rob Weir > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 2:39 AM, Manfred A. Reiter > > wrote: > > > > 2011/8/3 Rob Weir > >> > >> On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 6:10 PM, Manfred A. Reiter< > ma.rei...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > >>> > >>> 2011/8/2 Rob Weir > >>> > >>> > > Curiously, it reports only 5 of the 35,020 users as having been > > active > > in the past 7 days. > > >>> did you poked around 1 year ago as well? > >>> do you have an explanation, why these numbers are slowing down? > >>> > >>> ... > > > > 2. May be, my english is not good enough to understand, wheather your > > your response answers my questions. > > > If you have an unanswered question, please restate it, > >>> > >>> It's still in the quoted mail. > >>> > perhaps > rephrase if you think it was originally misunderstood. > >>> > >>> Afaics there is nothing to be misunderstood in the (two) question(s). > >>> > >> Ah. OK. He was asking for speculation on why the traffic is less now > >> than a year ago. Impossible to say, since I can't find any data on > >> what the traffic actually was a year ago. One way to back speculation > >> with facts would be to get a log of edits from last year, gather the > >> editors who were most active then, and contact them with a set of > >> survey questions. > >> > > Rob, I think that I covered this point to some degree in an earlier post > > today :-) //Terry > > > > Sorry, replacing Andre's speculation with your speculation is not the > same as introducing facts. > > -Rob > > > > I think there is a difference between informed hypothesis and speculation :-) -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ) www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales.
Re: OOO340 to svn
Hi Stephan, On Wednesday, 2011-08-03 10:22:08 +0200, Stephan Bergmann wrote: > On Aug 3, 2011, at 12:28 AM, Eike Rathke wrote: > > The problem with binfilter is that it depends on modules not in > > binfilter, changing them incompatibly may entail changes necessary to > > binfilter, those changes should be in one changeset, which I think is > > not possible when not in trunk, insights anyone? > > With svn, there would be no problem having a single changeset span > multiple directories like trunk and some other directory. Ah, ok, my living with SVN was long ago ;-) and we never used such a structure. Then separating binfilter is of course desirable. Eike -- PGP/OpenPGP/GnuPG encrypted mail preferred in all private communication. Key ID: 0x293C05FD - 997A 4C60 CE41 0149 0DB3 9E96 2F1A D073 293C 05FD pgprprCp9wjF0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:02 AM, TerryE wrote: > On 03/08/11 13:57, Rob Weir wrote: >> >> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Andre Schnabel >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Rob, >>> >>> Original-Nachricht Von: Rob Weir On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 2:39 AM, Manfred A. Reiter wrote: > > 2011/8/3 Rob Weir >> >> On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 6:10 PM, Manfred A. Reiter wrote: >>> >>> 2011/8/2 Rob Weir >>> >>> Curiously, it reports only 5 of the 35,020 users as having been active in the past 7 days. >>> did you poked around 1 year ago as well? >>> do you have an explanation, why these numbers are slowing down? >>> >>> ... > > 2. May be, my english is not good enough to understand, wheather your > your response answers my questions. > If you have an unanswered question, please restate it, >>> >>> It's still in the quoted mail. >>> perhaps rephrase if you think it was originally misunderstood. >>> >>> Afaics there is nothing to be misunderstood in the (two) question(s). >>> >> Ah. OK. He was asking for speculation on why the traffic is less now >> than a year ago. Impossible to say, since I can't find any data on >> what the traffic actually was a year ago. One way to back speculation >> with facts would be to get a log of edits from last year, gather the >> editors who were most active then, and contact them with a set of >> survey questions. >> > Rob, I think that I covered this point to some degree in an earlier post > today :-) //Terry > Sorry, replacing Andre's speculation with your speculation is not the same as introducing facts. -Rob >
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
On 03/08/11 13:57, Rob Weir wrote: On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Andre Schnabel wrote: Hi Rob, Original-Nachricht Von: Rob Weir On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 2:39 AM, Manfred A. Reiter wrote: 2011/8/3 Rob Weir On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 6:10 PM, Manfred A. Reiter wrote: 2011/8/2 Rob Weir Curiously, it reports only 5 of the 35,020 users as having been active in the past 7 days. did you poked around 1 year ago as well? do you have an explanation, why these numbers are slowing down? ... 2. May be, my english is not good enough to understand, wheather your your response answers my questions. If you have an unanswered question, please restate it, It's still in the quoted mail. perhaps rephrase if you think it was originally misunderstood. Afaics there is nothing to be misunderstood in the (two) question(s). Ah. OK. He was asking for speculation on why the traffic is less now than a year ago. Impossible to say, since I can't find any data on what the traffic actually was a year ago. One way to back speculation with facts would be to get a log of edits from last year, gather the editors who were most active then, and contact them with a set of survey questions. Rob, I think that I covered this point to some degree in an earlier post today :-) //Terry
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
Am 03.08.11 13:58, schrieb Andre Schnabel: Hi Rob, Original-Nachricht Von: Rob Weir On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 2:39 AM, Manfred A. Reiter wrote: 2011/8/3 Rob Weir On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 6:10 PM, Manfred A. Reiter wrote: 2011/8/2 Rob Weir Curiously, it reports only 5 of the 35,020 users as having been active in the past 7 days. did you poked around 1 year ago as well? Yes I think it's not a good choice to map only the last five days. So this will realy not tell the true. do you have an explanation, why these numbers are slowing down? Because atm is not a load to do at documentation and because we are in a new start situation? -- My private Homepage: http://www.raphaelbircher.ch/
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Andre Schnabel wrote: > Hi Rob, > > Original-Nachricht >> Von: Rob Weir >> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 2:39 AM, Manfred A. Reiter >> wrote: >> > 2011/8/3 Rob Weir >> >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 6:10 PM, Manfred A. Reiter >> wrote: >> >> > 2011/8/2 Rob Weir > >> >> >> >> >> >> Curiously, it reports only 5 of the 35,020 users as having been >> active >> >> >> in the past 7 days. >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > did you poked around 1 year ago as well? >> >> > do you have an explanation, why these numbers are slowing down? >> >> > > ... >> > >> > 2. May be, my english is not good enough to understand, wheather your >> > your response answers my questions. >> > >> >> If you have an unanswered question, please restate it, > > > It's still in the quoted mail. > >> perhaps >> rephrase if you think it was originally misunderstood. > > Afaics there is nothing to be misunderstood in the (two) question(s). > Ah. OK. He was asking for speculation on why the traffic is less now than a year ago. Impossible to say, since I can't find any data on what the traffic actually was a year ago. One way to back speculation with facts would be to get a log of edits from last year, gather the editors who were most active then, and contact them with a set of survey questions. > André >
Question on Category-A licenses, specifically CC-A
Category-A compatible licenses [1] as listed includes an entry labeled "Creative Commons Attribution (CC-A)". This links to a CC-BY 2.5 license page [2]. We have a potential contribution of user guides for the OpenOffice Podling that is dual licensed under GPL and CC-BY 3.0. How should we proceed? Is the inclusion of "Creative Commons Attribution (CC-A)" on the category-A list intended to be version limited? If so, can we get CC-BY 3.0 reviewed and added to the approved list? Regards, -Rob [1] http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-a [2] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/ [3] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
Re: Refactoring the brand: Apache ooo + OpenOffice.org? (was re:OpenOffice.org branding)
Hi Rob, Original-Nachricht > Von: Rob Weir > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 2:39 AM, Manfred A. Reiter > wrote: > > 2011/8/3 Rob Weir > >> > >> On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 6:10 PM, Manfred A. Reiter > wrote: > >> > 2011/8/2 Rob Weir > >> >> > >> >> Curiously, it reports only 5 of the 35,020 users as having been > active > >> >> in the past 7 days. > >> >> > >> > > >> > did you poked around 1 year ago as well? > >> > do you have an explanation, why these numbers are slowing down? > >> > ... > > > > 2. May be, my english is not good enough to understand, wheather your > > your response answers my questions. > > > > If you have an unanswered question, please restate it, It's still in the quoted mail. > perhaps > rephrase if you think it was originally misunderstood. Afaics there is nothing to be misunderstood in the (two) question(s). André
