Re: us...@openoffice.org [Was: Re: [Discussion] d...@openoffice.org]
Hi all, We don't have brand new OOo builds, AOOo, yet. :) We don't have any AOOo users yet. After the release of AOOo we will get traditional users and new users from many parts of the world. Do we know how many AOOo users we get, what kind of users they are, what they think and how they act? No one knows. So we have to be prepared. Let us set up all support media we can have, such as mail lists, forums and next-gens, and wait for AOOo users. :) It is easy to set up a Japanese mail list. If it is set up, Japanese AOOo users come in and they just start posting their questions in Japanese. Japanese AOOo users are lucky because there is the Japanese forum which will support Japanese AOOo users. http://user.services.openoffice.org/ But if Greek AOOo users want help in the forum, some Greek volunteers have to localize the forum, it takes time. http://projects.openoffice.org/native-lang.html And I would like to start localize the next-gens for future Japanese AOOo users. Which one of the next-gens will we use mainly? Can someone tell me how to localize it? Thanks, khirano On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 8:06 AM, Kazunari Hirano khir...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Drew and all, Thanks. On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 6:25 PM, drew d...@baseanswers.com wrote: http://stackoverflow.com/search?q=openoffice http://ask.debian.net/ http://libreoffice.shapado.com/ I see. These sites are the next-gens! Looks great. Is it easy to localize them? Thanks, khirano
Re: De Site is moved to apache
Great thing, have you already thought about how to coordinate the rework? IRC, Wiki? Am 08/25/2011 04:21 AM, schrieb Raphael Bircher: Hi at all I have just moved all the page of the de website from Kenai to Apache. There is still a load of rework to done, but the site is still there. http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/de/ Greetings Raphael
Re: [Fwd: The SCALE CFP is opening!]
On 25 August 2011 05:58, Jean Hollis Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: Many of you may already know about this, but it seems to me like a good place for someone to give a paper on AOOo and/or for us to have a booth -- so I thought I'd pass it along for discussion. I helped organise and staff a booth at a SCALE several years ago (on behalf of the OpenDocument Fellowship, with info about OOo among other things) and I think it was well worth the effort... not that I will come over from Australia to do it again. Hi Jean, I think this sort of event is important to attend so that the message that Apache OO is alive and well. Personally I will be away at that time but there must be some local Apache people who could attend. --Jean Forwarded Message From: pr...@socallinuxexpo.org To: jea...@jeanweber.com Subject: The SCALE CFP is opening! Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 20:39:25 -0700 The Linux Exposition of Southern California is proud to announce the 10th annual Southern California Linux Expo -- SCALE 10x -- will be held January 20-22, 2012 at the Hilton Los Angeles Airport Hotel. The SCALE Call For Papers opens August 25, 2011. Submittals for a wide range of topics around Open Source software will be considered. To submit your proposal, go to http://cfp.socallinuxexpo.org. The SCALE Team -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ) www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales.
Re: User support: beyond forums or lists
Am 24.08.2011 21:50, TJ Frazier wrote: (1) With email, the questions come to you, according to your filters c., and you can read them at your convenience. With fora, you have to log in and go looking, and may find nothing. No login required. Index page View unanswered posts: http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/search.php?search_id=unanswered I use to use on the index page: View active topics: http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/search.php?search_id=active_topics What you see is a list of all topics in all public subforums having the most recent additions. Unanswered topics are the ones with 0 replies. When you're logged-in, the topics with your contributions have a little star in the icon. Being logged-in, View new posts(12): http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/search.php?search_id=newposts shows the topics with new posts you did not read yet until the previous log-in. View unread posts http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/search.php?search_id=unreadposts shows topics you never touched. http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ucp.php?i=attachmentsmode=attachmentssk=fsd=d shows a listing with all my attachments, including hyperlinks to the topics where they have been attached, how often they have been viewed/downloaded (2) With email, you can reply with one click or so, quite independent of how long it takes you to come up with the answer. With fora, if you can answer off the top of your head, you are again only one click away from the reply. But, if you need to do some research, you must bookmark the question in some fashion, and then get back to it later (lots of clicks). Being logged-in, you click a quote button in the posting you want to quote. While writing you can also select some snippet in the history and click the same button to insert the snippet as quote including a prefix user_name wrote:. The HTML-like PHP formatting tags together with screenshots are particularly useful. - Code is really readable and scrollable in separate code blocks. - Hyperlinks have an URL and an optional human readable text. - There is room for off topic personal messages with attachments and everything. - Attached example documents allow us to develop really complex solutions without wasting too much time with misunderstandings and describing things. Quite often a new tutorial evolve from such intense discussions about non-obvious use cases. All tutorials are easy to find and easy to link in their separate sub-forums. The overall technical level of forum discussions is much higher than on any user mailing list. All threads are lined up in a one-dimensional time line which becomes a problem when a thread becomes really long while being still on topic. Usually the moderators split all off-topic and spam to separate topics or quarantine respectively. This way most users will not see most of the rubbish and splitting up an existing topic is possible at any time because all users see the same hierarchy rather than their individual message copies. Moderators can lock a topic for further replies. The group of voluteers can read and write internal messages in subforums that are hidden to guests and logged-in users. They also tag inappropriate posts so they are found easily by the moderators. An ego-search with keywords is possible at any time without log-in. http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/search.php For really complex searching I recommend a domain search with google. This is a built-in chronological ego-search for a logged-in user: http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/search.php?search_id=egosearch You can specify for each single topic if you want to be notified by email or not when the topic receives new messages and/or when you get a personal message. Hope this helps a little.
Re: User support - what do others do
Hi Andreas, On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 9:37 PM, Andreas Säger ville...@t-online.de wrote: Are you the same khirano who administrates that forum? Yes, I am. I meant no projects except OpenOffice.org have Japanese forum, Japanese mail list, Japanese wiki page. Thanks, khirano
Re: Update on SVN dump load
Download works fine, took ~15 min via http. diff against my own import from your svn.dump is empty. Good. :-) We're making progress! I was too impatient so I did some hack work on my build system and added this new repo as another source. During the work, I had to fix the following issues: - l10n/Repository*mk files missing - apache-commons/patches/codec.patch file missing oo@oo-buildsrv:~/BuildDir/ooo_OOO340_m0_src ls -al apache-commons/patches/codec.patch -rw-r--r-- 1 oo users 1010 Apr 8 16:53 apache-commons/patches/codec.patch oo@oo-buildsrv:~/BuildDir/ooo_OOO340_m0_src file apache-commons/patches/codec.patch apache-commons/patches/codec.patch: ASCII text, with CRLF, LF line terminators oo@oo-buildsrv:~/BuildDir/ooo_OOO340_m0_src - module dictionaries missing few files: oo@oo-buildsrv:~/BuildDir/ooo_OOO340_m0_src/dictionaries/de_CH ls -al README_hyph_de_CH.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 oo users 1545 Apr 8 16:53 README_hyph_de_CH.txt oo@oo-buildsrv:~/BuildDir/ooo_OOO340_m0_src/dictionaries/de_CH oo@oo-buildsrv:~/BuildDir/ooo_OOO340_m0_src/dictionaries ls -al de_AT/README_hyph_de_AT.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 oo users 1547 Apr 8 16:53 de_AT/README_hyph_de_AT.txt oo@oo-buildsrv:~/BuildDir/ooo_OOO340_m0_src/dictionaries oo@oo-buildsrv:~/BuildDir/ooo_OOO340_m0_src/dictionaries ls -al de_DE/README_hyph_de_DE.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 oo users 1547 Apr 8 16:53 de_DE/README_hyph_de_DE.txt oo@oo-buildsrv:~/BuildDir/ooo_OOO340_m0_src/dictionaries The build is still running though. Will update the results later today. -- Pavel Janík
Re: De Site is moved to apache
On 08/24/2011 07:21 PM, Raphael Bircher wrote: Hi at all I have just moved all the page of the de website from Kenai to Apache. There is still a load of rework to done, but the site is still there. http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/de/ Greetings Raphael Hi--yes, I saw this a day or so ago. Good! Have fun with updates. I'm thinking that Dave Fisher is kind of spearheading the web stuff for now, so at some point, some moving around I think! -- MzK Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent. -- Victor Hugo
[migration] Making the forums and wiki cut-over
Sorry in advance. I've tried to put this type of content on the cwiki and it has largely been ignored by the DL, hence this email. It is a long onem so have I tried to structure it and keep to simple plain text (as the DL forwarder seems to screw up text/html markup). Since this is so long, any reply threads could kill us. So can I ask respondents to open up a new [migration] thread to discuss specific points in depth rather than replying directly to this. *BACKGROUND* As you all know, I've been doing work on the forums and wiki, though the wiki has been my main focus recently. I am acting in two roles here (i) the lead SysAdmin for the ooo-wiki and ooo-forum VMS; (ii) the lead (and currently only) application maintainer on both systems. I also have ssh access to the current prod systems running in Oracle infrastructure and do equivalent roles there. So in practice, I am doing all of this related work, including liaising with the project, the infrastructure team and with Andrew Rist who represents Oracle here. I understandably have to work within the practices of the Apache infrastructure team to retain my permit to act as SysAdmin on these two VMs. I am also trying to meet the expectations of the project, the infrastructure teams and the needs of our user population across all of this work. We seem to have a Catch-22 here, and this email is about how we break this and move these aspects of the project forward. My interpretation of this Catch-22 is that whilst our current interactions on the DL are a good basis for individuals articulating views on a particular thread (and some seem to generate hundreds of viewpoints) we have no functioning mechanism to move to, and adopt some form of, a consensus policy or decision. The exact project requirements for this wiki, these forums and the x...@openoffice.org mail forwarders are cases in point. However, the infrastructure team believe that we, the project, have an urgency about making this cut over from Oracle to Apache infrastructure, and are pressing me to make progress. I can't execute any plan without a baseline requirement and set of assumptions, so what this note attempts is to lay down such a set, and the decisions that need to be made to go forward. So PLEASE, I don't want any flames about my use of DECISION below. What I simply mean is the if the PPMC as a body accepts these, then I will try my best to move this work forward. Of course you are free to challenge / change any of this if that is a PPMC voted decision, but in this case I need to move into a different mode; to suspend work and stop the clock until we have an PPMC-endorsed baseline to replan on. I am NOT going to press on without broad endorsement and then be criticised in retrospect for doing so. *INFRASTRUCTURE DRIVERS* The infrastructure team has a policy of bringing in new services at current S/W versions whenever possible -- simply because it makes it easier to support then, and doing this before the service is on-line involves less work and risk that when it is in production. I understand and agree with this goal even though it can front-load work. *The infrastructure stack is base on a standard Ubuntu server LAMP stack as at current LTS (Ubuntu 10.04-3 LTS) which included PHP 5.3.2 *The forums are stable, but at an N-1 release level. (phpBB 3.0.8 vs. 3.0.9). * *DECISION*: Upgrade the ooo-forums phpBB app + customisations to 3.0.9 before go-live. (Based on my last 5 upgrades, this 1-2 days work, the main part being the regression of a 1K line customisation patch when we rebaseline the package from 3.0.8 - 3.0.9) *The prod wiki is v1.15.1 that at an N-3 major release level (that's 30 months old: two major and 10 minor revisions behind the current supported). This also runs on PHP 5.2.0. *We need an reverse-proxy HTTP cache for performance reasons on the wiki. One of the four market leaders in this niche is another Apache project: Apache Traffic Server (ATS). It makes sense to stay in-house here for both support and referenceability reasons * *DECISION*: Adopt ATS v3.0.1 as the HTTP cache for the wiki. (BTW, this work has been done and the product is excellent). The PHP 5.3 introduced extra checking to remove an area of tolerance the PHP 5.x3 allowed. This was to do with when and how parameters can be passed by reference under curtain circumstances. So moving a code base from 5.2 to 5.3 involved a lot of work identifying and eliminating this mis-codings. This was done by the MediaWiki team in MW v1.16. I had planned to move to MW v1.15.5 (the last stable 1.15.x) as our baseline and I've done this work integrating it with Apache Traffic Server (ATS) and our LAMP stack. This is stable and performant enough to show that we are good. However, I have only identified and bug-fixed the main path 5.2-5.3 coding issues. During my testing I have subsequently
[WWW] Privacy Policy ( was [Fwd: Assistance with rewriting TOU/PP for Apache OpenOffice.org podling])
On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 07:37 -0400, drew wrote: Howdy, Sending along copy of the email to the legal-discuss list. Cliff Notes version Down and dirty 1st draft of new TOU here: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/website-terms-of-use-draft I'll update the draft page to reflect discussion from the two lists, please feel free to do so yourself, should you so prefer. Howdy List, Ok, well the TOU has been available for review for a while, no comments TD. One small issue, still missing wording for a Privacy Policy. If you look at the draft TOU it references a currently non-existent PP page as : http://incubator.apache.org/openoffice.org/privacy.html I've appropriated the text from another ASF project, made a few minor edits and placed a draft for same at: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/website-privacy-policy-draft So - this assumes that for now there will be no third party analytics, which I would propose as the correct way to proceed at this moment. Thanks for you time, //drew ps. Will send similar email to legal-discuss now. Forwarded Message From: drew d...@baseanswers.com Reply-to: legal-disc...@apache.org To: legal-disc...@apache.org Subject: Assistance with rewriting TOU/PP for Apache OpenOffice.org podling Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 05:30:47 -0400 Hello, OpenOffice.org is coming to the ASF, as part of this transfer a number of websites will need to be re-branded and re-hosted. Part of this process will be to re-write the Terms of Use and Privacy polices for these sites. Some of the current OpenOffice.org websites are hosted by third parties, for example Oregon State University, and will not be re-hosting but will need still to be re-branded. The TOU used at the main openoffice.org website is found at http://openoffice.org/terms_of_use The current website http://www.OpenOffice.org supports individual user accounts, support for individual user accounts at this URL is not planned to continue after transfer to ASF hosted servers. This same TOU is currently used by the User support websites found at, http://user.services.openoffice.org and will continue to support individual, site specific, user accounts after transfer to ASF servers. The website found at http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki currently supports individual, site specific, user accounts and MAY continue to do so after transfer to ASF servers. Currently the site does NOT use the TOU policy found at the main site, it is proposed to do so after the transfer. The website found at http://extensions.services.openoffice.org and http://templates.services.openoffice.org is currently hosted by Oregon State University Open Source Labs for the OpenOffice.org project. This site supports individual, site specific, user accounts. This will continue after the transfer. This site does NOT currently use the TOU policy from the main website, it is proposed to do so after the transfer. The Wiki, User Support and Extension/Template websites currently support user content submissions under various licenses and will continue, I think, to do so after the transfer. The TOU policy at the main website references Privacy Policy and this will also need to be rewritten for the transfer. This is not an exhaustive list of websites that are currently part of the OpenOffice.org infrastructure, or even those that will transfer to ASF, you can find that at: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/OOo-Sitemap So - long enough introduction I think. Have created a page on the Apache OpenOffice.org AOO community wiki for editng the TOU text - current contents is my first pass on edits against the TOU page reference above. That page is at: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/website-terms-of-use-draft Have not created a page for the Privacy Policy draft yet, will do so and post back to the ML with the address. Looking for help on this from the legal side, questions from folks I guess, too start..please. Thans very much and looking forward to meeting you all, Drew Jensen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscr...@apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-h...@apache.org
Re: Update on SVN dump load
Hi, The missing files and line end problems are known, please see the thread [Repo][Proposal] OOO340 SVN Dump file import yup, I read http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201108.mbox/%3c4e54ca79.3010...@gmx.net%3e a bit later. Looks like I'm not effectively able to read all mails here 8) Who will work on the missing files? When they will be available in the repository? The only issue (except the files listed in the above mentioned mails) are missing Repository*mk files for l10n for now. Building binfilter/sfx2 now (slow, cold ccache)... -- Pavel Janík
Re: Update on SVN dump load
Am 25.08.2011 18:13, schrieb Pavel Janík: Hi, The missing files and line end problems are known, please see the thread [Repo][Proposal] OOO340 SVN Dump file import yup, I read http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201108.mbox/%3c4e54ca79.3010...@gmx.net%3e a bit later. Looks like I'm not effectively able to read all mails here 8) :-) Who will work on the missing files? When they will be available in the repository? I'm sure someone will commit them as soon as the real repository will be ready. The only issue (except the files listed in the above mentioned mails) are missing Repository*mk files for l10n for now. Michael Stahl also mentioned that. IIRC he suggested to add it in the extras/l10n folder. Regards, Mathias
[migration] Decision making
On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Terry Ellison ter...@apache.org wrote: snip We seem to have a Catch-22 here, and this email is about how we break this and move these aspects of the project forward. My interpretation of this Catch-22 is that whilst our current interactions on the DL are a good basis for individuals articulating views on a particular thread (and some seem to generate hundreds of viewpoints) we have no functioning mechanism to move to, and adopt some form of, a consensus policy or decision. The exact I've noticed this as well. I think the catch-22 is caused by our collective lack of experience with Apache-style lazy consensus. This fact, combined with the us having more list participants with opinions than list participants able and willing to help with migration, easily leads to bikeshedding. This is easy to work through by applying lazy consensus. The term lazy consensus perhaps is misunderstood. It doesn't mean that everyone agrees with you. It does it even mean that every project committer agrees with you. It means that no committer is strongly opposed to your proposal and is willing to back up their opposition with technical arguments and the willingness to implement an alternative solution. Lazy consensus does not even mean that you propose the idea first on the list. If something is reversalable and you are convinced that no one would object, then JFDI. That is the basis of Commit Then Review (CTR). Try to avoid unnecessary discussions on the list. That helps us all focus on the things that actually require discussion. However, if you think the idea might be controversial, then go ahead and post a new [Proposal] thread. State what *you* would like to do, and say that you will assume Lazy Consensus if no objects arrive in 72-hours. But again, objections must be from committers, backed with technical arguments and the willingness to implement alternatives. With a list of this many subscribers (over 200 now, I believe) it is inevitable that every proposal will garner a range of response. Some might be even voiced as +1 or -1. But these notation are often misused as well. +1 should mean, I strongly agree and am willing to help. -1 should mean, I strongly oppose and am willing to help with the alternative approach. Intermediate values like +.5 or -0 or whatever express various softer opinions [1]. So let's work through this by: 1) Don't ask questions unless you really think something requires a discussion. You are a committer. We voted you in because we trust you. 2) If you think something requires discussion then post a new [PROPOSAL] thread, preferably one per separate proposal, and state that you will assume lazy consensus in 72-hours (or some longer time period at your discretion). If you don't get any legitimate -1's by that point, or get other insights that make you want to reconsider your proposal, then do it. 3) Those who comment on the proposals should try to respect the meaning of +1 and -1 and use fractional values to express intermediate positions. They should also consider saying nothing. Silence is consent. You might have what seems to you to be a brilliant insight. But is it really so important that you should distract us all with it right now? Does it really matter. Does it matter enough to hold back the progress of migration, or can we deal with it later? (I'm as guilty of this as anyone) Regards, -Rob [1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html
RE: [migration] Making the forums and wiki cut-over
Just one tiny clean-up. Based on what you say, I believe the goal is to cut over forums in 7 days and the wiki in 14 days. (I think there is a small typo in the second CUT-OVER GOAL.) - Dennis Thanks for all of this Terry. You've managed to juggle a complex number of considerations and you have my endless admiration for it. -Original Message- From: Terry Ellison [mailto:ter...@apache.org] Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 08:59 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: [migration] Making the forums and wiki cut-over Sorry in advance. I've tried to put this type of content on the cwiki and it has largely been ignored by the DL, hence this email. It is a long onem so have I tried to structure it and keep to simple plain text (as the DL forwarder seems to screw up text/html markup). Since this is so long, any reply threads could kill us. So can I ask respondents to open up a new [migration] thread to discuss specific points in depth rather than replying directly to this. [ ... ] *CUT-OVER* [ ... ] * *GOAL*: Cut over forums within 7 days from today. Date TBD by PM. I can do the content move. * *DECISION*: Halt the wiki service for a notified (24hr) window during cutover. The migration uses fixed IPs, so DNP IP reassignment is co-incident with service stop. * *GOAL*: Cut over forums within 14 days from today. Date TBD by PM. I can do the content move. [ ... ]
Re: Update on SVN dump load
Hi, I'm currently downloading the sources, and I'll give it a try on Mac OS X ( 10.4 ) and Linux ( X86_64 later tonight). I got two Virtualboxes running Windows too, but later. Where can we put the first instructions / workaround for probable brakeages ? On the wiki ? Regards, Eric Le 25 août 11 à 18:35, Mathias Bauer a écrit : Am 25.08.2011 18:13, schrieb Pavel Janík: Hi, The missing files and line end problems are known, please see the thread [Repo][Proposal] OOO340 SVN Dump file import yup, I read http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/ 201108.mbox/%3c4e54ca79.3010...@gmx.net%3e a bit later. Looks like I'm not effectively able to read all mails here 8) :-) Who will work on the missing files? When they will be available in the repository? I'm sure someone will commit them as soon as the real repository will be ready. The only issue (except the files listed in the above mentioned mails) are missing Repository*mk files for l10n for now. Michael Stahl also mentioned that. IIRC he suggested to add it in the extras/l10n folder. Regards, Mathias -- qɔᴉɹə Education Project: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news
RE: us...@openoffice.org [Was: Re: [Discussion] d...@openoffice.org]
This should be at the User support: beyond forums or lists thread but I hesitate to confuse other ways of reading this list that don't like title changes (and I am using reply to have previous material attached - I might try forward instead on some occasion). I have been running a filter on StackExchange sites long enough to have some hits with new posts that use the openoffice.org tag. Experience: I can get from the filter notice to the StackExchange post by direct link. I can post an answer or, more likely, a request for details/clarification once there. However, there is no way to track an individual post. So to see if there has been any activity on the post once it is non-knew, I have to manually go look. I can do that by saving the original notice in a folder of ones to review at some point. (There is a list of answers I've posted in my profile, but it is not organized for use in this manner.) Not very appealing in attempting to maximize my cycles available for actually providing forum support. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 13:15 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: RE: us...@openoffice.org [Was: Re: [Discussion] d...@openoffice.org] Drew, I didn't realize the imbalance between using the tag and mentioning without the tag was that lop-sided. By the way, there is also http://superuser.com/search?q=openoffice.org. Things that can be done with StackExchange sites already include having an RSS feed of posts and also email subscriptions (though I remember shutting that off once I was overwhelmed). Apparently one can subscribe by tag. I did that. I set up a query that uses the openoffice.org tag (I was not brave enough to use the search term instead but I did specify all sites) and I will receive e-mail notifications. We'll see if those make it easy to go to the question, review, and respond. - Dennis -Original Message- From: drew [mailto:d...@baseanswers.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 11:51 To: dennis.hamil...@acm.org Cc: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: RE: us...@openoffice.org [Was: Re: [Discussion] d...@openoffice.org] On Wed, 2011-08-24 at 08:01 -0700, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: It looks to me as if we need to be following the openoffice.org tag on StackOverflow. They have over 1200 items, and there is an openoffice.org tag/category although it is not always used. Hi Dennis, Sadly, not so - the link I showed was a simple string search for OpenOffice and it returns a good number of items that nearly mention the application but are not about it. Items tagged as OpenOffice-x numbers (over a 2 year span) OpenOffice.org 326 total openoffice-calc 84 total openoffice-wrier 51 total openoffice-impress 12 total openoffice-base 2 total openoffice-basic 0 total open-office 26 total snip //drew
Re: us...@openoffice.org [Was: Re: [Discussion] d...@openoffice.org]
On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote: This should be at the User support: beyond forums or lists thread but I hesitate to confuse other ways of reading this list that don't like title changes (and I am using reply to have previous material attached - I might try forward instead on some occasion). I have been running a filter on StackExchange sites long enough to have some hits with new posts that use the openoffice.org tag. Experience: I can get from the filter notice to the StackExchange post by direct link. I can post an answer or, more likely, a request for details/clarification once there. However, there is no way to track an individual post. So to see if there has been any activity on the post once it is non-knew, I have to manually go look. I can do that by saving the original notice in a folder of ones to review at some point. (There is a list of answers I've posted in my profile, but it is not organized for use in this manner.) Not very appealing in attempting to maximize my cycles available for actually providing forum support. One thing to note about Stack Exchange is that more capabilities are made available to you based on how many points you've earned. So it is tricky to tell, by casual review, what features might be available to a deeply-involved moderator. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 13:15 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: RE: us...@openoffice.org [Was: Re: [Discussion] d...@openoffice.org] Drew, I didn't realize the imbalance between using the tag and mentioning without the tag was that lop-sided. By the way, there is also http://superuser.com/search?q=openoffice.org. Things that can be done with StackExchange sites already include having an RSS feed of posts and also email subscriptions (though I remember shutting that off once I was overwhelmed). Apparently one can subscribe by tag. I did that. I set up a query that uses the openoffice.org tag (I was not brave enough to use the search term instead but I did specify all sites) and I will receive e-mail notifications. We'll see if those make it easy to go to the question, review, and respond. - Dennis -Original Message- From: drew [mailto:d...@baseanswers.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 11:51 To: dennis.hamil...@acm.org Cc: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: RE: us...@openoffice.org [Was: Re: [Discussion] d...@openoffice.org] On Wed, 2011-08-24 at 08:01 -0700, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: It looks to me as if we need to be following the openoffice.org tag on StackOverflow. They have over 1200 items, and there is an openoffice.org tag/category although it is not always used. Hi Dennis, Sadly, not so - the link I showed was a simple string search for OpenOffice and it returns a good number of items that nearly mention the application but are not about it. Items tagged as OpenOffice-x numbers (over a 2 year span) OpenOffice.org 326 total openoffice-calc 84 total openoffice-wrier 51 total openoffice-impress 12 total openoffice-base 2 total openoffice-basic 0 total open-office 26 total snip //drew
Re: [migration] Decision making
On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: But again, objections must be from committers, backed with technical arguments and the willingness to implement alternatives. The Apache voting policy page you linked agrees that binding votes are from committers, and that all others are either discouraged from voting (to keep the noise down) or else have their votes considered of an indicative or advisory nature only. But some things may require noise. I for one am essentially lurking here as a user, watching the progress of the product on its way to becoming once again current and viable. I'm technical, but have never touched the guts of OOo. So if you bring up a change, presented as a lazy-concensus proposal, and I think it would adversely affect my experience as a user, I'd very much like to be able to object, even if my objection is non-binding. I can't stop you, but on the other hand I'd rather you not stop me. Don
Re: [migration] Decision making
Donald Whytock wrote: On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Rob Weirrobw...@apache.org wrote: But again, objections must be from committers, backed with technical arguments and the willingness to implement alternatives. The Apache voting policy page you linked agrees that binding votes are from committers, and that all others are either discouraged from voting (to keep the noise down) or else have their votes considered of an indicative or advisory nature only. But some things may require noise. I for one am essentially lurking here as a user, watching the progress of the product on its way to becoming once again current and viable. I'm technical, but have never touched the guts of OOo. So if you bring up a change, presented as a lazy-concensus proposal, and I think it would adversely affect my experience as a user, I'd very much like to be able to object, even if my objection is non-binding. I can't stop you, but on the other hand I'd rather you not stop me. Don Hi Don, I will speak only for myself but as a PPMC member I know that I would want to see reasonable, though out, objections from the users. That said, it would have to be more than I object to such and such. Details is what is needed. Andy
Re: [migration] Decision making
On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Donald Whytock dwhyt...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: But again, objections must be from committers, backed with technical arguments and the willingness to implement alternatives. The Apache voting policy page you linked agrees that binding votes are from committers, and that all others are either discouraged from voting (to keep the noise down) or else have their votes considered of an indicative or advisory nature only. But some things may require noise. I for one am essentially lurking here as a user, watching the progress of the product on its way to becoming once again current and viable. I'm technical, but have never touched the guts of OOo. So if you bring up a change, presented as a lazy-concensus proposal, and I think it would adversely affect my experience as a user, I'd very much like to be able to object, even if my objection is non-binding. I can't stop you, but on the other hand I'd rather you not stop me. The distinction here is between decision making with lazy consensus versus voting. Voting is a formal procedure, and something we do only when required by the process (voting in new committers, approving releases, etc.) or in other (hopefully) rare occasions. A formal vote would occur in its own [VOTE] thread, but would be preceded first by a [DISCUSS] thread on the same topic. So your feedback is always welcome, especially in the [DISCUSS] thread. This distinction may not be obvious, since we've only had private votes in this project so far, for voting in new committers. Apache requires these be private votes. A [PROPOSAL] thread is not a vote. It is someone saying what they'd like to do and seeing if there are any strong objections. If there are not, then the proposer will go forward. Anyone can comment on the proposal thread, but my previous comments apply: please comment judiciously. If you think the proposer has goofed or is about to goof, and this is a big problem, then by all means, speak up. The project benefits from that. But with 200 subscribers to the list, if we all make minor comments based on slight preferences, then we end up with a mess. Best (IMHO) if we hold back and only comment where and when it matters most. Don
RE: us...@openoffice.org [Was: Re: [Discussion] d...@openoffice.org]
I found a way to track individual Stack Exchange questions without having to poll them myself to detect follow-ups and other answers. It is a bit clumsy. But it promises to be easy, and it is particularly easy to stop tracking a question. Every question (topic) on StackExchange has its own RSS feed. I'm not quite sure how to manage per-question feeds, but I will give that a try. It will definitely save me having to keep going to the question and checking on follow-ups and other answers. I'm going to see if this works better in the Windows Common Feed List so I can get updates in Outlook (not where I normally manage feeds). - Dennis ABOUT STACKEXCHANGE KARMA It is interesting that there might be a karma difference. Of course, it would be pretty frustrating to not have access to a valuable tool until having run the gauntlet for getting the karma to use it. Being able to follow a post does not seem like one of those things. I checked my reputation on StackOverflow. I have all privileges but 8: - trusted user - protect questions - access to moderator tools - approve tag wiki edits - cast close and reopen votes - create tag synonyms - edit questions and answers (not my own) - create tags I have the other 17. The moderator tools do not have any additional powers related to tracking an individual post. Trusted users do not have any additional powers related to tracking an individual post. -Original Message- From: rabas...@gmail.com [mailto:rabas...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Rob Weir Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 11:27 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: us...@openoffice.org [Was: Re: [Discussion] d...@openoffice.org] On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote: This should be at the User support: beyond forums or lists thread but I hesitate to confuse other ways of reading this list that don't like title changes (and I am using reply to have previous material attached - I might try forward instead on some occasion). I have been running a filter on StackExchange sites long enough to have some hits with new posts that use the openoffice.org tag. Experience: I can get from the filter notice to the StackExchange post by direct link. I can post an answer or, more likely, a request for details/clarification once there. However, there is no way to track an individual post. So to see if there has been any activity on the post once it is non-knew, I have to manually go look. I can do that by saving the original notice in a folder of ones to review at some point. (There is a list of answers I've posted in my profile, but it is not organized for use in this manner.) Not very appealing in attempting to maximize my cycles available for actually providing forum support. One thing to note about Stack Exchange is that more capabilities are made available to you based on how many points you've earned. So it is tricky to tell, by casual review, what features might be available to a deeply-involved moderator. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 13:15 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: RE: us...@openoffice.org [Was: Re: [Discussion] d...@openoffice.org] Drew, I didn't realize the imbalance between using the tag and mentioning without the tag was that lop-sided. By the way, there is also http://superuser.com/search?q=openoffice.org. Things that can be done with StackExchange sites already include having an RSS feed of posts and also email subscriptions (though I remember shutting that off once I was overwhelmed). Apparently one can subscribe by tag. I did that. I set up a query that uses the openoffice.org tag (I was not brave enough to use the search term instead but I did specify all sites) and I will receive e-mail notifications. We'll see if those make it easy to go to the question, review, and respond. - Dennis -Original Message- From: drew [mailto:d...@baseanswers.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 11:51 To: dennis.hamil...@acm.org Cc: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: RE: us...@openoffice.org [Was: Re: [Discussion] d...@openoffice.org] On Wed, 2011-08-24 at 08:01 -0700, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: It looks to me as if we need to be following the openoffice.org tag on StackOverflow. They have over 1200 items, and there is an openoffice.org tag/category although it is not always used. Hi Dennis, Sadly, not so - the link I showed was a simple string search for OpenOffice and it returns a good number of items that nearly mention the application but are not about it. Items tagged as OpenOffice-x numbers (over a 2 year span) OpenOffice.org 326 total openoffice-calc 84 total openoffice-wrier 51 total openoffice-impress 12 total openoffice-base 2 total openoffice-basic 0 total open-office 26 total snip //drew
Re: Update on SVN dump load
As promised, an update : I verified all the issues Pavel encountered in dictionnaries and readlincense_oo , excepted that I'm stuck (means build broken) in comphelper, due to a too old gnumake (3.80, need : 3.81) So we can consider the build is definitively broken on Mac OS X 10.4. Will restart a build on Linux later. Below the (partial) log, Eric Building on Mac OS X 10.4.11 (Intel) Dowloadin the sources : svn co https://svn-master.apache.org/repos/test/joes/ooo/trunk/main ooo_apache # https or http ? cd ooo_apache/ ./configure --disable-odk --disable-gtk --disable-headless --disable- build-mozilla --with-jdk-home=/System/Library/Frameworks/ JavaVM.framework/Home --disable-mediawiki --disable-vba --without-junit ./bootstrap (dmake is built, and a lot of sources are dowloaded, md5sum checked and so on) bootstrap = ok source MacOSXX86Env.Set.sh cd instsetoo_native build --all -P3 -- -P3 First breakage : readlicense_oo Entering /Users/ericb/Desktop/ooo_apache/readlicense_oo/html dmake: Error: -- `THIRDPARTYLICENSEREADME.html' not found, and can't be made 1 module(s): readlicense_oo need(s) to be rebuilt Workaround : copy THIRDPARTYLICENSEREADME.html from an old tree (from hg) into readlicense_oo/html fiwed the issue. Missing : readlicense_oo/html/THIRDPARTYLICENSEREADME.html Next breakages : Module 'xmerge' delivered successfully. 0 files copied, 12 files unchanged 3 module(s): dictionaries hwpfilter comphelper = broken in dictionaries, hwpfiler, comphelper cd dictionaries buld : 1) Entering /Users/ericb/Desktop/ooo_apache/dictionaries/de_CH dmake: Error: -- `./README_hyph_de_CH.txt' not found, and can't be made = missing dictionaries/de_CH/README_hyph_de_CH.txt Add the file from an old repo fixed the breakage build to continue 2) Entering /Users/ericb/Desktop/ooo_apache/dictionaries/de_AT /Users/ericb/Desktop/ooo_apache/solenv/bin/transform_description.pl: WITH_LANG not set or empty, defaulting to 'en-US' cp ./dictionaries.xcu ../unxmacxi.pro/misc/dict-de-AT/dictionaries.xcu dmake: Error: -- `./README_hyph_de_AT.txt' not found, and can't be made = missing dictionaries/de_AT/README_hyph_de_AT.txt Add the file from an old repo fixed the breakage. build to continue 3) Entering /Users/ericb/Desktop/ooo_apache/dictionaries/de_DE /Users/ericb/Desktop/ooo_apache/solenv/bin/transform_description.pl: WITH_LANG not set or empty, defaulting to 'en-US' cp ./dictionaries.xcu ../unxmacxi.pro/misc/dict-de-DE/dictionaries.xcu dmake: Error: -- `./README_hyph_de_DE.txt' not found, and can't be made ERROR: error 65280 occurred while making /Users/ericb/Desktop/ ooo_apache/dictionaries/de_DE Missing : /dictionaries/de_DE/README_hyph_de_DE.txt Copy the missing file form an old repo fixed the breakage. build - dictionaries successfuly built. Build broken in comphelper : I got gnumake 3.80 and it is not compatible with my set :-/ -- qɔᴉɹə Education Project: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news
Re: Update on SVN dump load
On 25.08.2011 22:17, eric b wrote: As promised, an update : I verified all the issues Pavel encountered in dictionnaries and readlincense_oo , excepted that I'm stuck (means build broken) in comphelper, due to a too old gnumake (3.80, need : 3.81) So we can consider the build is definitively broken on Mac OS X 10.4. Will restart a build on Linux later. that's not a build breaker, your installation is just outdated :) the new build system requires at least GNU make 3.81. the release 3.81 suffers from bug 20033 which causes GNU make to segfault occasionally when building with 1 jobs; it's fixed in 3.82, so get that if you need a new one anyway. dmake: Error: -- `THIRDPARTYLICENSEREADME.html' not found, and can't be made known missing file (and the others also...) btw on linux GStreamer stuff doesn't build, i sent a patch for this on this list long time ago... perhaps it would make sense to wait with the building until the already known issues are fixed :) regards, michael
Re: Update on SVN dump load
On 25.08.2011 23:08, Michael Stahl wrote: On 25.08.2011 22:17, eric b wrote: As promised, an update : I verified all the issues Pavel encountered in dictionnaries and readlincense_oo , excepted that I'm stuck (means build broken) in comphelper, due to a too old gnumake (3.80, need : 3.81) So we can consider the build is definitively broken on Mac OS X 10.4. Will restart a build on Linux later. that's not a build breaker, your installation is just outdated :) sorry, of course it breaks the build, what i meant to say is that it can't and won't be fixed in the OOo code.
Re: [www][wiki] Web, Wiki, and Participation (was RE: Making mailing lists useful ...)
Hi--
I think I deleted lot of conversations in this thread and that is it a
bit old, but see below...
On 08/12/2011 10:25 AM, Dave Fisher wrote:
On Aug 12, 2011, at 9:30 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
+1 on
I think the value of opening up that list to a broader range of
contributors is worth the cost of the extra click.
- Dennis
In my experience editing a wiki and creating a patch are
qualitatively and quantitatively different.
Editing a wiki, especially one that is inviting (Media Wiki
qualifies for me, others not so much), provides for discussion and
has an important internet feature: disintermediation.
The appeal of wikis (and forums too) is that it provides
disintermediation on behalf of non-expert participation. And it
has immediacy, something we must not undervalue. You don't get
Wikipedia by a procedure that involves submitting patches. Not
ever.
I think every approach we assess here should be tested by how it
invites greater participation. That does not mean we grant
committer status to every bloke who knocks on the door, because
that is about the provenance of the code base and the integrity of
releases.
There are amazing activities that benefit from end-user support,
peer support, and developers contributing in visible ways that are
not significant in terms of Apache licensing and issues around
releases. But developers can provide perspective and transparency
using the community playground too.
So, for example, the main web site for the project needs to be
non-user-edited for technical as well as policy reasons. Then one
question would be how little can we have there in order to gain the
contributions of non-developers/-committers in all of those places
where they can shine -- and perhaps be(come) experts of another
kind through those contributions.
The proper question, for me, is not how much to have under
committer control and PPMC-intermediation, but how little we can
have without increased ceremony and technical barriers because of
an over-riding consideration. Very little should trump open,
casual participation.
1.
On the wiki, a user may or may not have editing rights, but other
than that the wiki is designed to allow change.
The whole html vs mdtext question that Kay has been raising is all
about how to work on the website in a most casual manner with the
least amount of ceremony. One of the key advantages of the Apache
CMS is making it easy for Committers to modify content on the fly
also makes contribution comparatively more difficult for
non-committers. For non-commiters this means installing a whole
document build system.
One approach could be to modify the Apache CMS web-gui to allow
non-committers to browse and make patches. I don't know how hard that
would be to do.
A search box on the main site can point to google and can search both
the main site and the wiki.
When we are ready to consider each OOo project site for conversion we
should send an email to ooo-dev to determine which way that site
should go - CMS or Wiki? We can label the thread with
[www][${project}]. We can also ask for someone to step up and lead
the content conversion process for a project.
hmmm...well generally I think this is a very good idea. Should we get
together a list of the project heads and start this process now?
I might also suggest that by some consensus we put together a lost of
areas that we absolutely, positively DON'T want on the wiki for control
reasons. I will happily work on a wiki page with these ideas.
Regards, Dave
-Original Message- From: N�ir�n Plunkett
[mailto:noi...@apache.org] Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 07:20 To:
ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Making mailing lists
useful (was Re: [Proposal])
On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 4:11 PM, Rob Weirapa...@robweir.com
wrote:
I'm assuming that it is the new list subscriber that benefits
most from this. Existing subscribers will just follow the
conventions they observe being used on the list. Or do you
expect to regularly check the wiki to see what new subject tags
Simon has added?
I think it's highly unlikely that the new list subscriber will
read this in either location; I think the people who are most
likely to read it are those who've been on the list a few days, see
that there are a few tags floating around, and that the volume of
mail is hectic. (Yes, I know the static page says c. 57/day. I also
know that most people have no concept of what that means as an
addition to their normal mail flow.)
I expect those people not to be sure what to look for or where, but
I hope if they've seen a reasonably prominent mention on the static
page saying This is a high-volume mailing list. Please use clear,
relevant subject lines, and consider using an appropriate tag for
your mail. A list of tags is available at [link]., that they'll
figure it out.
I think the value of opening up that list to a broader range of
contributors is worth the cost of the extra click.
Noirin
--
[Introduction] Getting involved with Apache OOo
Greetings, I have been using OOo for quite some time (its been my fall back if I'm not able to use Microsoft's suite [mostly on Linux and Mac]) and am very pleased seeing it become an Apache project. While, I've not really been part of the OOo community until I heard it has been accepted into the incubator (I been lurking on the general list, [stuck around after another project I've been following got accepted into the incubator]), I'm quite interested in helping this project in anyway shape or form that my skill set is able to do so (time is also key factor). I do not have much in the way of development skill set, my primary background is in customer service, with a little bit of qa testing and a bit of linux server administration. Anyhow, I mostly wanted to introduce myself and welcome the project [Yea, I know it a bit on the late side.. I'm more of a lurker]. I've been reading a few of the discussion threads so far, very pleased with the way things are heading at this time. Thanks for reading, please let me know if I can help in shape or form at this stage. -- --Matt
Re: [www][wiki] Web, Wiki, and Participation (was RE: Making mailing lists useful ...)
On Aug 25, 2011, at 2:31 PM, Kay Schenk wrote:
Hi--
I think I deleted lot of conversations in this thread and that is it a bit
old, but see below...
On 08/12/2011 10:25 AM, Dave Fisher wrote:
On Aug 12, 2011, at 9:30 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
+1 on
I think the value of opening up that list to a broader range of
contributors is worth the cost of the extra click.
- Dennis
In my experience editing a wiki and creating a patch are
qualitatively and quantitatively different.
Editing a wiki, especially one that is inviting (Media Wiki
qualifies for me, others not so much), provides for discussion and
has an important internet feature: disintermediation.
The appeal of wikis (and forums too) is that it provides
disintermediation on behalf of non-expert participation. And it
has immediacy, something we must not undervalue. You don't get
Wikipedia by a procedure that involves submitting patches. Not
ever.
I think every approach we assess here should be tested by how it
invites greater participation. That does not mean we grant
committer status to every bloke who knocks on the door, because
that is about the provenance of the code base and the integrity of
releases.
There are amazing activities that benefit from end-user support,
peer support, and developers contributing in visible ways that are
not significant in terms of Apache licensing and issues around
releases. But developers can provide perspective and transparency
using the community playground too.
So, for example, the main web site for the project needs to be
non-user-edited for technical as well as policy reasons. Then one
question would be how little can we have there in order to gain the
contributions of non-developers/-committers in all of those places
where they can shine -- and perhaps be(come) experts of another
kind through those contributions.
The proper question, for me, is not how much to have under
committer control and PPMC-intermediation, but how little we can
have without increased ceremony and technical barriers because of
an over-riding consideration. Very little should trump open,
casual participation.
1.
On the wiki, a user may or may not have editing rights, but other
than that the wiki is designed to allow change.
The whole html vs mdtext question that Kay has been raising is all
about how to work on the website in a most casual manner with the
least amount of ceremony. One of the key advantages of the Apache
CMS is making it easy for Committers to modify content on the fly
also makes contribution comparatively more difficult for
non-committers. For non-commiters this means installing a whole
document build system.
One approach could be to modify the Apache CMS web-gui to allow
non-committers to browse and make patches. I don't know how hard that
would be to do.
A search box on the main site can point to google and can search both
the main site and the wiki.
When we are ready to consider each OOo project site for conversion we
should send an email to ooo-dev to determine which way that site
should go - CMS or Wiki? We can label the thread with
[www][${project}]. We can also ask for someone to step up and lead
the content conversion process for a project.
hmmm...well generally I think this is a very good idea. Should we get
together a list of the project heads and start this process now?
I might also suggest that by some consensus we put together a lost of areas
that we absolutely, positively DON'T want on the wiki for control reasons. I
will happily work on a wiki page with these ideas.
Will you be editing
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/OOo-to-ASF-site-recommendation
, or starting a new page?
Regards,
Dave
Regards, Dave
-Original Message- From: N�ir�n Plunkett
[mailto:noi...@apache.org] Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 07:20 To:
ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Making mailing lists
useful (was Re: [Proposal])
On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 4:11 PM, Rob Weirapa...@robweir.com
wrote:
I'm assuming that it is the new list subscriber that benefits
most from this. Existing subscribers will just follow the
conventions they observe being used on the list. Or do you
expect to regularly check the wiki to see what new subject tags
Simon has added?
I think it's highly unlikely that the new list subscriber will
read this in either location; I think the people who are most
likely to read it are those who've been on the list a few days, see
that there are a few tags floating around, and that the volume of
mail is hectic. (Yes, I know the static page says c. 57/day. I also
know that most people have no concept of what that means as an
addition to their normal mail flow.)
I expect those people not to be sure what to look for or where, but
I hope if they've seen a reasonably prominent mention on the static
page saying This is a high-volume
Re: [www][wiki] Web, Wiki, and Participation (was RE: Making mailing lists useful ...)
On 08/25/2011 02:56 PM, Dave Fisher wrote:
On Aug 25, 2011, at 2:31 PM, Kay Schenk wrote:
Hi--
I think I deleted lot of conversations in this thread and that is it a bit
old, but see below...
On 08/12/2011 10:25 AM, Dave Fisher wrote:
On Aug 12, 2011, at 9:30 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
+1 on
I think the value of opening up that list to a broader range of
contributors is worth the cost of the extra click.
- Dennis
In my experience editing a wiki and creating a patch are
qualitatively and quantitatively different.
Editing a wiki, especially one that is inviting (Media Wiki
qualifies for me, others not so much), provides for discussion and
has an important internet feature: disintermediation.
The appeal of wikis (and forums too) is that it provides
disintermediation on behalf of non-expert participation. And it
has immediacy, something we must not undervalue. You don't get
Wikipedia by a procedure that involves submitting patches. Not
ever.
I think every approach we assess here should be tested by how it
invites greater participation. That does not mean we grant
committer status to every bloke who knocks on the door, because
that is about the provenance of the code base and the integrity of
releases.
There are amazing activities that benefit from end-user support,
peer support, and developers contributing in visible ways that are
not significant in terms of Apache licensing and issues around
releases. But developers can provide perspective and transparency
using the community playground too.
So, for example, the main web site for the project needs to be
non-user-edited for technical as well as policy reasons. Then one
question would be how little can we have there in order to gain the
contributions of non-developers/-committers in all of those places
where they can shine -- and perhaps be(come) experts of another
kind through those contributions.
The proper question, for me, is not how much to have under
committer control and PPMC-intermediation, but how little we can
have without increased ceremony and technical barriers because of
an over-riding consideration. Very little should trump open,
casual participation.
1.
On the wiki, a user may or may not have editing rights, but other
than that the wiki is designed to allow change.
The whole html vs mdtext question that Kay has been raising is all
about how to work on the website in a most casual manner with the
least amount of ceremony. One of the key advantages of the Apache
CMS is making it easy for Committers to modify content on the fly
also makes contribution comparatively more difficult for
non-committers. For non-commiters this means installing a whole
document build system.
One approach could be to modify the Apache CMS web-gui to allow
non-committers to browse and make patches. I don't know how hard that
would be to do.
A search box on the main site can point to google and can search both
the main site and the wiki.
When we are ready to consider each OOo project site for conversion we
should send an email to ooo-dev to determine which way that site
should go - CMS or Wiki? We can label the thread with
[www][${project}]. We can also ask for someone to step up and lead
the content conversion process for a project.
hmmm...well generally I think this is a very good idea. Should we get together
a list of the project heads and start this process now?
I might also suggest that by some consensus we put together a lost of areas
that we absolutely, positively DON'T want on the wiki for control reasons. I
will happily work on a wiki page with these ideas.
Will you be editing
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/OOo-to-ASF-site-recommendation
, or starting a new page?
Well I had actually posted my OWN thoughts on this page (in the last
column)--
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/OpenOffice+Domains
However, I could, of course, take out that last column (on the domains
page) and recreate this whole table on the page you reference above and
that way we could document findings (based on project lead responses) on
the OOo-to-ASF-site-recommendation page.
Should I do that?
Regards,
Dave
Regards, Dave
-Original Message- From: N�ir�n Plunkett
[mailto:noi...@apache.org] Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 07:20 To:
ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Making mailing lists
useful (was Re: [Proposal])
On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 4:11 PM, Rob Weirapa...@robweir.com
wrote:
I'm assuming that it is the new list subscriber that benefits
most from this. Existing subscribers will just follow the
conventions they observe being used on the list. Or do you
expect to regularly check the wiki to see what new subject tags
Simon has added?
I think it's highly unlikely that the new list subscriber will
read this in either location; I think the people who are most
likely to read it are those who've been on the list a few days, see
that there are a few tags
Re: [www][wiki] Web, Wiki, and Participation (was RE: Making mailing lists useful ...)
On Aug 25, 2011, at 2:58 PM, Kay Schenk wrote:
On 08/25/2011 02:56 PM, Dave Fisher wrote:
On Aug 25, 2011, at 2:31 PM, Kay Schenk wrote:
Hi--
I think I deleted lot of conversations in this thread and that is it a bit
old, but see below...
On 08/12/2011 10:25 AM, Dave Fisher wrote:
On Aug 12, 2011, at 9:30 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
+1 on
I think the value of opening up that list to a broader range of
contributors is worth the cost of the extra click.
- Dennis
In my experience editing a wiki and creating a patch are
qualitatively and quantitatively different.
Editing a wiki, especially one that is inviting (Media Wiki
qualifies for me, others not so much), provides for discussion and
has an important internet feature: disintermediation.
The appeal of wikis (and forums too) is that it provides
disintermediation on behalf of non-expert participation. And it
has immediacy, something we must not undervalue. You don't get
Wikipedia by a procedure that involves submitting patches. Not
ever.
I think every approach we assess here should be tested by how it
invites greater participation. That does not mean we grant
committer status to every bloke who knocks on the door, because
that is about the provenance of the code base and the integrity of
releases.
There are amazing activities that benefit from end-user support,
peer support, and developers contributing in visible ways that are
not significant in terms of Apache licensing and issues around
releases. But developers can provide perspective and transparency
using the community playground too.
So, for example, the main web site for the project needs to be
non-user-edited for technical as well as policy reasons. Then one
question would be how little can we have there in order to gain the
contributions of non-developers/-committers in all of those places
where they can shine -- and perhaps be(come) experts of another
kind through those contributions.
The proper question, for me, is not how much to have under
committer control and PPMC-intermediation, but how little we can
have without increased ceremony and technical barriers because of
an over-riding consideration. Very little should trump open,
casual participation.
1.
On the wiki, a user may or may not have editing rights, but other
than that the wiki is designed to allow change.
The whole html vs mdtext question that Kay has been raising is all
about how to work on the website in a most casual manner with the
least amount of ceremony. One of the key advantages of the Apache
CMS is making it easy for Committers to modify content on the fly
also makes contribution comparatively more difficult for
non-committers. For non-commiters this means installing a whole
document build system.
One approach could be to modify the Apache CMS web-gui to allow
non-committers to browse and make patches. I don't know how hard that
would be to do.
A search box on the main site can point to google and can search both
the main site and the wiki.
When we are ready to consider each OOo project site for conversion we
should send an email to ooo-dev to determine which way that site
should go - CMS or Wiki? We can label the thread with
[www][${project}]. We can also ask for someone to step up and lead
the content conversion process for a project.
hmmm...well generally I think this is a very good idea. Should we get
together a list of the project heads and start this process now?
I might also suggest that by some consensus we put together a lost of areas
that we absolutely, positively DON'T want on the wiki for control reasons.
I will happily work on a wiki page with these ideas.
Will you be editing
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/OOo-to-ASF-site-recommendation
, or starting a new page?
Well I had actually posted my OWN thoughts on this page (in the last column)--
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/OpenOffice+Domains
However, I could, of course, take out that last column (on the domains page)
and recreate this whole table on the page you reference above and that way we
could document findings (based on project lead responses) on the
OOo-to-ASF-site-recommendation page.
Should I do that?
Do what you planned on doing.
You asked a lot of questions on
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/OOo-to-ASF-site-recommendation
- do you have answers for some?
Regards,
Dave
Regards,
Dave
Regards, Dave
-Original Message- From: N�ir�n Plunkett
[mailto:noi...@apache.org] Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 07:20 To:
ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Making mailing lists
useful (was Re: [Proposal])
On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 4:11 PM, Rob Weirapa...@robweir.com
wrote:
I'm assuming that it is the new list subscriber that benefits
most from this. Existing subscribers will just follow the
Re: [Introduction] Getting involved with Apache OOo
Matt Richards wrote: Greetings, I have been using OOo for quite some time (its been my fall back if I'm not able to use Microsoft's suite [mostly on Linux and Mac]) and am very pleased seeing it become an Apache project. While, I've not really been part of the OOo community until I heard it has been accepted into the incubator (I been lurking on the general list, [stuck around after another project I've been following got accepted into the incubator]), I'm quite interested in helping this project in anyway shape or form that my skill set is able to do so (time is also key factor). I do not have much in the way of development skill set, my primary background is in customer service, with a little bit of qa testing and a bit of linux server administration. Anyhow, I mostly wanted to introduce myself and welcome the project [Yea, I know it a bit on the late side.. I'm more of a lurker]. I've been reading a few of the discussion threads so far, very pleased with the way things are heading at this time. Thanks for reading, please let me know if I can help in shape or form at this stage. Hi Matt, If you have seen some of the threads you should know that we do what we can. Pick an item that needs doing and do it. The idea is to lead by doing. You know your skill set better than anyone here ever would. Welcome to the group. Andy
Re: [www][wiki] Web, Wiki, and Participation (was RE: Making mailing lists useful ...)
On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 3:22 PM, Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net wrote:
On Aug 25, 2011, at 2:58 PM, Kay Schenk wrote:
On 08/25/2011 02:56 PM, Dave Fisher wrote:
On Aug 25, 2011, at 2:31 PM, Kay Schenk wrote:
Hi--
I think I deleted lot of conversations in this thread and that is it a
bit old, but see below...
On 08/12/2011 10:25 AM, Dave Fisher wrote:
On Aug 12, 2011, at 9:30 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
+1 on
I think the value of opening up that list to a broader range of
contributors is worth the cost of the extra click.
- Dennis
In my experience editing a wiki and creating a patch are
qualitatively and quantitatively different.
Editing a wiki, especially one that is inviting (Media Wiki
qualifies for me, others not so much), provides for discussion and
has an important internet feature: disintermediation.
The appeal of wikis (and forums too) is that it provides
disintermediation on behalf of non-expert participation. And it
has immediacy, something we must not undervalue. You don't get
Wikipedia by a procedure that involves submitting patches. Not
ever.
I think every approach we assess here should be tested by how it
invites greater participation. That does not mean we grant
committer status to every bloke who knocks on the door, because
that is about the provenance of the code base and the integrity of
releases.
There are amazing activities that benefit from end-user support,
peer support, and developers contributing in visible ways that are
not significant in terms of Apache licensing and issues around
releases. But developers can provide perspective and transparency
using the community playground too.
So, for example, the main web site for the project needs to be
non-user-edited for technical as well as policy reasons. Then one
question would be how little can we have there in order to gain the
contributions of non-developers/-committers in all of those places
where they can shine -- and perhaps be(come) experts of another
kind through those contributions.
The proper question, for me, is not how much to have under
committer control and PPMC-intermediation, but how little we can
have without increased ceremony and technical barriers because of
an over-riding consideration. Very little should trump open,
casual participation.
1.
On the wiki, a user may or may not have editing rights, but other
than that the wiki is designed to allow change.
The whole html vs mdtext question that Kay has been raising is all
about how to work on the website in a most casual manner with the
least amount of ceremony. One of the key advantages of the Apache
CMS is making it easy for Committers to modify content on the fly
also makes contribution comparatively more difficult for
non-committers. For non-commiters this means installing a whole
document build system.
One approach could be to modify the Apache CMS web-gui to allow
non-committers to browse and make patches. I don't know how hard that
would be to do.
A search box on the main site can point to google and can search both
the main site and the wiki.
When we are ready to consider each OOo project site for conversion we
should send an email to ooo-dev to determine which way that site
should go - CMS or Wiki? We can label the thread with
[www][${project}]. We can also ask for someone to step up and lead
the content conversion process for a project.
hmmm...well generally I think this is a very good idea. Should we get
together a list of the project heads and start this process now?
I might also suggest that by some consensus we put together a lost of
areas that we absolutely, positively DON'T want on the wiki for control
reasons. I will happily work on a wiki page with these ideas.
Will you be editing
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/OOo-to-ASF-site-recommendation,
or starting a new page?
Well I had actually posted my OWN thoughts on this page (in the last
column)--
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/OpenOffice+Domains
However, I could, of course, take out that last column (on the domains
page) and recreate this whole table on the page you reference above and that
way we could document findings (based on project lead responses) on the
OOo-to-ASF-site-recommendation page.
Should I do that?
Do what you planned on doing.
OK, I think I'll put everything in the doc below somehow... later
You asked a lot of questions on
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/OOo-to-ASF-site-recommendation-
do you have answers for some?
ha...well yes I do!
- Kay
Regards,
Dave
Regards,
Dave
Regards, Dave
-Original Message- From: N�ir�n Plunkett
[mailto:noi...@apache.org] Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 07:20 To:
ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Making
OOo Bugzilla data import available for review
All, The OOo Bugzilla data export provided to the ASF infrastructure team has been imported into a test instance[1] for your review. Please review the import and report any *show stopper* issues to the infrastructure team via the Jira ticket created for this import. [2] Assuming no show stopper issues, the data will be re-imported no sooner that Monday 29 August 2011. Please note the following: 1. None of the OOo UI customisations were provided with the export so the UI is the same as the main ASF bugzilla instance apart from the name which has been changed to Apache ooo Bugzilla 2. The previous OOo Bugzilla instance was running on Bugzilla 3.2.10. This reached end-of-live over 6 months ago. It is not acceptable to run production services on unsupported software. As part of the migration, the bugzilla instance was upgraded to 4.0.0. 3. All usernames and passwords remain unchanged with one exception: users with system administration rights have been removed from the admin group. Access to this group will be limited to members of the ASF infrastructure team (new volunteers always welcome). Enjoy. Mark [1] https://issues.apache.org/ooo/ [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-3884
Re: OOo Bugzilla data import available for review
Thanks for doing this for us. Mark Thomas wrote: 3. All usernames and passwords remain unchanged with one exception: users with system administration rights have been removed from the admin group. Access to this group will be limited to members of the ASF infrastructure team (new volunteers always welcome). I can not get it to recognize user name or email address. Any suggestions? Andy
Re: OOo Bugzilla data import available for review
Am 26.08.11 01:24, schrieb Andy Brown: Thanks for doing this for us. Mark Thomas wrote: 3. All usernames and passwords remain unchanged with one exception: users with system administration rights have been removed from the admin group. Access to this group will be limited to members of the ASF infrastructure team (new volunteers always welcome). I can not get it to recognize user name or email address. Any suggestions? e-mailer is desabled, so Bugzilla can't send a mail ;-) Andy -- My private Homepage: http://www.raphaelbircher.ch/
Re: OOo Bugzilla data import available for review
On 8/25/2011 19:24, Andy Brown wrote: Thanks for doing this for us. Mark Thomas wrote: 3. All usernames and passwords remain unchanged with one exception: users with system administration rights have been removed from the admin group. Access to this group will be limited to members of the ASF infrastructure team (new volunteers always welcome). I can not get it to recognize user name or email address. Any suggestions? Andy It recognizes my user name @oo.o, but not the password. It has sent me a reset message, but I haven't received it (yet). -- /tj/
Re: OOo Bugzilla data import available for review
TJ Frazier wrote: On 8/25/2011 19:24, Andy Brown wrote: Thanks for doing this for us. Mark Thomas wrote: 3. All usernames and passwords remain unchanged with one exception: users with system administration rights have been removed from the admin group. Access to this group will be limited to members of the ASF infrastructure team (new volunteers always welcome). I can not get it to recognize user name or email address. Any suggestions? Andy It recognizes my user name @oo.o, but not the password. It has sent me a reset message, but I haven't received it (yet). Retried, same results. Also did a quick test to make sure the forwarding was still working, it is. Andy
Re: OOo Bugzilla data import available for review
On 8/25/2011 18:54, Mark Thomas wrote: snip 3. All usernames and passwords remain unchanged with one exception: users with system administration rights have been removed from the admin group. Access to this group will be limited to members of the ASF infrastructure team (new volunteers always welcome). Enjoy. Mark [1] https://issues.apache.org/ooo/ [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-3884 RBircher has reported on the JIRA ticket that logins do not work at all (confirming Andy's and my experience). Thanks to his helpful mention on this thread, we know that BZ email is disabled. This may be related to the problem, since BZ-test is recognizing user names with the full @oo.o suffix, but not passwords (or at least, login fails with bad-password message). -- /tj/
Re: OOo Bugzilla data import available for review
Thanks Mark and everybody else involved! I do prefer this approach than the stepped transition that was planned previously. Here we know what we got and people don't have to spend time finishing the migration in the background. It does look sane: attachments are still there, which is the main thing I am interested in. Just for curiosity, I checked an issue referred from the LO first week development summary, Bug 100686: the patch is there in our bugzilla, so we can pick up relatively easily in some of those changes without diverging too much :). cheers, Pedro. --- On Thu, 8/25/11, Mark Thomas ma...@apache.org wrote: ... All, The OOo Bugzilla data export provided to the ASF infrastructure team has been imported into a test instance[1] for your review. Please review the import and report any *show stopper* issues to the infrastructure team via the Jira ticket created for this import. [2] Assuming no show stopper issues, the data will be re-imported no sooner that Monday 29 August 2011. Please note the following: 1. None of the OOo UI customisations were provided with the export so the UI is the same as the main ASF bugzilla instance apart from the name which has been changed to Apache ooo Bugzilla 2. The previous OOo Bugzilla instance was running on Bugzilla 3.2.10. This reached end-of-live over 6 months ago. It is not acceptable to run production services on unsupported software. As part of the migration, the bugzilla instance was upgraded to 4.0.0. 3. All usernames and passwords remain unchanged with one exception: users with system administration rights have been removed from the admin group. Access to this group will be limited to members of the ASF infrastructure team (new volunteers always welcome). Enjoy. Mark [1] https://issues.apache.org/ooo/ [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-3884
RE: Update on SVN dump load
Thanks joe, I already had a laborious additional SVN update stage running when I saw this message. So about 18 hours total into this, when it interrupted once again, I started a new folder, this time on my local hard drive (I had been updating onto a shared folder of a file server), and did a complete check-out in 30 minutes, 30 seconds. I can now drag that baby over to the file server where I want to keep it. Quickly. Based on this, when the merge into the incubator/ooo/ SVN subtree happens, I think I will nuke the tree I have and do a complete check-out the same way. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Joe Schaefer [mailto:joe_schae...@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 11:13 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; dennis.hamil...@acm.org Subject: Re: Update on SVN dump load Yes that is a painful way to proceed. 9 times out of 10 it is way faster to nuke a partial checkout and retry than it is to use svn update to pick up where you left off. I learned this while dealing with network issues during a FreeBSD checkout. Wasted a full day waiting on svn up. From: Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 2:03 PM Subject: RE: Update on SVN dump load I am clearly doing this wrong. There must be a more-efficient way to handle this than by an SVN check-out and, after the check-out is interrupted for some reason, subsequent SVN updates to continue pulling down a working copy of the repo, rinse-repeat whenever there are connection failures of some kind. I say that because I am around 12 hours into that process and I am still pulling just the trunk (at about 1.5 GB including all of the .svn stuff). Fortunately, it doesn't swamp my machine and I can do other work, such as write emails [;). Don't think I'll try watching Netflix on-line though [;). - Dennis PS: I have, since June 1, had a lifetimes supply of ways to show myself how stupid I am. Walking onto a project of this magnitude without first learning the toolcraft and customs on something smaller is not thrilling. I am going to find those smaller things to teeth on while I watch in horror how complex this activity is. -Original Message- From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 16:22 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: RE: Update on SVN dump load Ah, the excitement builds ... One way to not do commits (and to avoid certificate warnings) is to use the http:// address, not the https:// form. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 15:17 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Update on SVN dump load Our JIRA issue has been updated: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-3862 Joe has done a test load onto: https://svn-master.apache.org/repos/test/joes/ooo No commits to it, please, but yell out if you see anything wrong. It looks good so far. -Rob
Re: Update on SVN dump load
The plan is to do the load tomorrow, assuming our prior svn upgrade plans go well. From: Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org To: 'Joe Schaefer' joe_schae...@yahoo.com; ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 11:23 PM Subject: RE: Update on SVN dump load Thanks joe, I already had a laborious additional SVN update stage running when I saw this message. So about 18 hours total into this, when it interrupted once again, I started a new folder, this time on my local hard drive (I had been updating onto a shared folder of a file server), and did a complete check-out in 30 minutes, 30 seconds. I can now drag that baby over to the file server where I want to keep it. Quickly. Based on this, when the merge into the incubator/ooo/ SVN subtree happens, I think I will nuke the tree I have and do a complete check-out the same way. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Joe Schaefer [mailto:joe_schae...@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 11:13 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; dennis.hamil...@acm.org Subject: Re: Update on SVN dump load Yes that is a painful way to proceed. 9 times out of 10 it is way faster to nuke a partial checkout and retry than it is to use svn update to pick up where you left off. I learned this while dealing with network issues during a FreeBSD checkout. Wasted a full day waiting on svn up. From: Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 2:03 PM Subject: RE: Update on SVN dump load I am clearly doing this wrong. There must be a more-efficient way to handle this than by an SVN check-out and, after the check-out is interrupted for some reason, subsequent SVN updates to continue pulling down a working copy of the repo, rinse-repeat whenever there are connection failures of some kind. I say that because I am around 12 hours into that process and I am still pulling just the trunk (at about 1.5 GB including all of the .svn stuff). Fortunately, it doesn't swamp my machine and I can do other work, such as write emails [;). Don't think I'll try watching Netflix on-line though [;). - Dennis PS: I have, since June 1, had a lifetimes supply of ways to show myself how stupid I am. Walking onto a project of this magnitude without first learning the toolcraft and customs on something smaller is not thrilling. I am going to find those smaller things to teeth on while I watch in horror how complex this activity is. -Original Message- From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 16:22 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: RE: Update on SVN dump load Ah, the excitement builds ... One way to not do commits (and to avoid certificate warnings) is to use the http:// address, not the https:// form. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 15:17 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Update on SVN dump load Our JIRA issue has been updated: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-3862 Joe has done a test load onto: https://svn-master.apache.org/repos/test/joes/ooo No commits to it, please, but yell out if you see anything wrong. It looks good so far. -Rob
Re: Update on SVN dump load
wrt complete checkout, some use of svn checkout --depth=immediates svn up dir --set-depth=immediates svn up dir --set-depth=infinity might help with network issues. (it breaks the checkout into smaller transactions) Dennis E. Hamilton wrote on Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 20:23:31 -0700: Thanks joe, I already had a laborious additional SVN update stage running when I saw this message. So about 18 hours total into this, when it interrupted once again, I started a new folder, this time on my local hard drive (I had been updating onto a shared folder of a file server), and did a complete check-out in 30 minutes, 30 seconds. I can now drag that baby over to the file server where I want to keep it. Quickly. Based on this, when the merge into the incubator/ooo/ SVN subtree happens, I think I will nuke the tree I have and do a complete check-out the same way. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Joe Schaefer [mailto:joe_schae...@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 11:13 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; dennis.hamil...@acm.org Subject: Re: Update on SVN dump load Yes that is a painful way to proceed. 9 times out of 10 it is way faster to nuke a partial checkout and retry than it is to use svn update to pick up where you left off. I learned this while dealing with network issues during a FreeBSD checkout. Wasted a full day waiting on svn up. From: Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 2:03 PM Subject: RE: Update on SVN dump load I am clearly doing this wrong. There must be a more-efficient way to handle this than by an SVN check-out and, after the check-out is interrupted for some reason, subsequent SVN updates to continue pulling down a working copy of the repo, rinse-repeat whenever there are connection failures of some kind. I say that because I am around 12 hours into that process and I am still pulling just the trunk (at about 1.5 GB including all of the .svn stuff). Fortunately, it doesn't swamp my machine and I can do other work, such as write emails [;). Don't think I'll try watching Netflix on-line though [;). - Dennis PS: I have, since June 1, had a lifetimes supply of ways to show myself how stupid I am. Walking onto a project of this magnitude without first learning the toolcraft and customs on something smaller is not thrilling. I am going to find those smaller things to teeth on while I watch in horror how complex this activity is. -Original Message- From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 16:22 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: RE: Update on SVN dump load Ah, the excitement builds ... One way to not do commits (and to avoid certificate warnings) is to use the http:// address, not the https:// form. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 15:17 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Update on SVN dump load Our JIRA issue has been updated: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-3862 Joe has done a test load onto: https://svn-master.apache.org/repos/test/joes/ooo No commits to it, please, but yell out if you see anything wrong. It looks good so far. -Rob
Re: Update on SVN dump load
Hi, For the record, the second part : I didn't use --with-lang= ... so I didn't hit th l10n breakage. Current status : breaks at packaging due to some other missing files. I didn't investigate more (coffee first .. ) but imho, it shouldn't be an important issue. Regards, Eric The log : Installed gmale 3.81 from Darwin port solved the comphelper build. Next breakage : Entering /Users/ericb/Desktop/ooo_apache/hwpfilter/source dmake: Error: -- `../unxmacxi.pro/slo/hwpeq.obj' not found, and can't be made Missing : hwpfilter/source/hwpeq.cpp Copy hwpeq.cpp from an old hg repo, solved the issue Last breakage, (during the night) at packaging : ... analyzing files ... ERROR: The following files could not be found: ERROR: File not found: /xslt/export/common/body.xsl ERROR: File not found: /xslt/export/common/styles/style_mapping_css.xsl ... cleaning the output tree ... No other issue, in particular in l10n, because I didn't set --with- lang at configure time. TODO : redo configure and rebuild using --with-lang=fr per see Complement : Checking out the l10n stuff: cd ooo_apache # cd $SRC_ROOT svn co https://svn-master.apache.org/repos/test/joes/ooo/trunk/ extras/l10n l10n - should put everything in l10n Last but not least is is l10n/l10n ? -- qɔᴉɹə Education Project: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news
[build completed] Re: Update on SVN dump load
Hi, Last part : was 2 files missing in filter/source/xslt/odf2xhtml/ export/common Copy them at the right location + deliver in filter solved the issue. Packaging is successfull, and I got OpenOffice.org 3.4.(0 ?) installed. Conclusions : - the build is possible and easy on Mac OS X 10.4, assuming direct compatibility with all versions from 10.4 to 10.7 on Intel machines - we can say we are very close. - Remain : the l10n issue, probably not that important Thanks a lot to the one who created the repo, and did the most difficult part ! Regards, Eric -- qɔᴉɹə Education Project: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news
