Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
Alasdair wrote: The alternative is in progress. Would that be illumos gate or open indiana? -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
Would that be illumos gate or open indiana? ig + oi = on ?? -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
Gary D gdri...@gmail.com wrote: Alasdair wrote: The alternative is in progress. Would that be illumos gate or open indiana? I am not sure what you expect. Last night, I booted a Schillix-0.71i alpha (an Illumos based version of SchillIX 0.7.1) SchilliX is the first distro that boots a pure Illumos that only adds FROSS bits to create a distro. Before last night, all tests with Illumos have been made with a Indiana installation that has been partially upgraded with Illumos bits. BTW: I am looking for people who like to help with SchillIX. There is e.g. a need to add ZFS support to README.install. Jörg -- EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni) joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
The various developers are pushing ON_147+ testing, which is the last ON release tagged. You either will find these public releases: 1. ON_147 2. ON_147+ (current (about 12 putbacks from ON_148)) 3. ON_147+ (current, with Illumos patching). Schillix 0.7.1 is the only public OpenSolaris server-based distro providing numbers 2 and 3 at this moment. You can use and install the Oracle Solaris Studio Express 6/10 Software or pkg install sunstudio12u1 if you have IPS capability (or do it manually). ~ Ken Mays ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
On Sep 2, 2010, at 4:07 AM, Joerg Schilling wrote: I am not sure what you expect. Less cloak dagger bullshit. Either you're working on an _open_ source project or you're working on a top secret, fully buzzword compliant project that may or may not be based on Illumos, Solaris, SunOS, BSD4, Unics, and/or Multics source that requires contacting people off list. Obviously, I'm not shilling for Schillix or even referring to it outside this sentence. ;) -Gary ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
john kroll wrote: Would that be illumos gate or open indiana? ig + oi = on ?? illumos is roughly equivalent to ON by itself. An OpenIndiana distro would have to add the other 80% of the OpenSolaris distro that comes from outside ON/illumos - SFW, X, JDS, etc. -- -Alan Coopersmith-alan.coopersm...@oracle.com Oracle Solaris Platform Engineering: X Window System ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 9/2/2010 10:41 AM, Alan Coopersmith wrote: illumos is roughly equivalent to ON by itself. An OpenIndiana distro would have to add the other 80% of the OpenSolaris distro that comes from outside ON/illumos - SFW, X, JDS, etc. Hi Alan, Where can I find a definitive list of what's in the 'etc.' you refer to? I know I need to build ON, SFW, JDS, X, and PKG, but I'm not sure what else there is. I've only just begun, and I was planning on comparing what pkgs get created with those in IN and guessing what else I needed, but if there's a list somewhere, it'd make things easier. -Kyle -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (MingW32) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJMf88QAAoJEEADRM+bKN5wPIMH/RaZxMHUCp54Easu9TWONbAx kmhF0xM1nGDu5obY+4bwqF7BBJ0R7Vg5m/zhoZ0GWn2ksupL//abw5ttDlLUsyMy ufvk4kJEI0n7Z4ZNg7O1Ltvi5lTluOSW6bY7ZMwVw8b10CE3eq9rQVZ8z3dPDSss AR3GfjoAJ3eYRSd7/vJ0dQon7Nw8dO/pxKcS/m0abFkd4SBgRmYDxQwdzBL1vNVf 4Vje0Pke/PakjD+Qi9bRcK0N1ud1uuTVdf0CJY+UMfLhk51Mt9i4yH8XIyIjy81x LjkAdjAtJBzuXMfShILWiRKFEMP7kp5UOC2q+If2ZQX57UfyPAwpiaq33iCV6DA= =iq6t -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
Kyle McDonald wrote: On 9/2/2010 10:41 AM, Alan Coopersmith wrote: illumos is roughly equivalent to ON by itself. An OpenIndiana distro would have to add the other 80% of the OpenSolaris distro that comes from outside ON/illumos - SFW, X, JDS, etc. Hi Alan, Where can I find a definitive list of what's in the 'etc.' you refer to? I know I need to build ON, SFW, JDS, X, and PKG, but I'm not sure what else there is. I've only just begun, and I was planning on comparing what pkgs get created with those in IN and guessing what else I needed, but if there's a list somewhere, it'd make things easier. The people working with Alasdair already made this list, but if you're trying to independently recreate it, you can get a list of included consolidation incorporations by doing: pkg contents -t depend -a type=incorporate -o fmri -r entire You could run a similar command on each of those listed incorporations to find out which packages each includes. -- -Alan Coopersmith-alan.coopersm...@oracle.com Oracle Solaris Platform Engineering: X Window System ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
The people working with Alasdair already made this list, but if you're trying to independently recreate it, you can get a list of included consolidation incorporations by doing: pkg contents -t depend -a type=incorporate -o fmri -r entire You could run a similar command on each of those listed incorporations to find out which packages each includes. Ok. So is there a 1:1:1 relationship between an 'incorporation' and a 'consolidation' and a source 'repository'? -Kyle ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
Kyle McDonald wrote: The people working with Alasdair already made this list, but if you're trying to independently recreate it, you can get a list of included consolidation incorporations by doing: pkg contents -t depend -a type=incorporate -o fmri -r entire You could run a similar command on each of those listed incorporations to find out which packages each includes. Ok. So is there a 1:1:1 relationship between an 'incorporation' and a 'consolidation' and a source 'repository'? No. -- -Alan Coopersmith-alan.coopersm...@oracle.com Oracle Solaris Platform Engineering: X Window System ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
On 31 Aug 2010, at 11:01, Stefan Mueller-Wilken wrote: Well, and finally here's my original problem boiled down to two sentences: a) You (or at least I) don't really want a Linux distribution with a Solaris kernel b) There... is... no... Illumos... distribution! There never will be one, as it stands. Illumos is only the ON part to Solaris, bootable in the future if you're lucky. And there's a delta missing between ON and Indiana (aka OpenSolaris). Just as there is a delta between Indiana and full blown Solaris 10 / Solaris 11. Call it a niche product but it's something I personally find attractive to have something between both and am still searching. So, ladies and gentlemen: where is the alternative? The alternative is in progress. If you want it faster, I suggest you mail me and help contribute. This applies to everyone reading this. Ask not what the OpenSolaris community can do for you. Ask what you can do for your OpenSolaris community. You want a distro? Contribute! Alasdair ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
Alasdair: for those of us interested, what is the best way to reach you? -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
he said: I suggest you mail me since his email address was in the header: alasdai...@gmail.com that's what I think he intended you to use. HTH -- regards/mfg Michael Schuster ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
I think we all should put our foot down and support illumos I couldn't find an install cd but I guess here's the project build - http://trochejen.blogspot.com/2010/08/illumos-building-instructions.html - -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
I think we all should put our foot down and support illumos I couldn't find an install cd but I guess here's the project build - http://trochejen.blogspot.com/2010/08/illumos-building -instructions.html - Well, and finally here's my original problem boiled down to two sentences: a) You (or at least I) don't really want a Linux distribution with a Solaris kernel b) There... is... no... Illumos... distribution! There never will be one, as it stands. Illumos is only the ON part to Solaris, bootable in the future if you're lucky. And there's a delta missing between ON and Indiana (aka OpenSolaris). Just as there is a delta between Indiana and full blown Solaris 10 / Solaris 11. Call it a niche product but it's something I personally find attractive to have something between both and am still searching. So, ladies and gentlemen: where is the alternative? Cheers Stefan -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
You (Ian Collins) wrote: On 08/31/10 03:52 AM, Matthias Pfützner wrote: Right, but in all cases, Oracle never really announced stuff so much in advance as Sun did... So, that's a change in external behaviour, but not necessarily an indication of a different underlying attitude towards the product Solaris itself... Let's just hope for their sake they understand the OS platform market and its flow of information is way different from the database market. It is very hard and very expensive to migrate a business from one database platform to another, so customers are effectively locked in. One of my clients is spending many man years and a small fortune doing this. It is comparatively easy and cheap to swap OS and hardware. The further customers can see what's coming to plan ahead the less likely they are to move. -- Ian. I'm more than with you with that one! Does the OS matter? was/is a topic of discussion, and it's very different from DBs. Still, Oracle is Oracle... We have to wait and see! (Standard disclaimer: All said here is my own opinion, and does not reflect nor is influenced by Oracle!) Matthias -- Matthias Pfützner | Tel.: +49 700 PFUETZNER | In Darmstadt läuft EHNIX, Lichtenbergstr.73 | mailto:matth...@pfuetzner.de | und das verdammt stabil. D-64289 Darmstadt | AIM: pfuetz, ICQ: 300967487 | Außerdem ist es ZUNIX Germany | http://www.pfuetzner.de/matthias/ | kompatibel. (C. B. Vetter) ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
I think we all should put our foot down and support illumos I couldn't find an install cd but I guess here's the project build - http://trochejen.blogspot.com/2010/08/illumos-building -instructions.html - Well, and finally here's my original problem boiled down to two sentences: a) You (or at least I) don't really want a Linux distribution with a Solaris kernel b) There... is... no... Illumos... distribution! There never will be one, as it stands. Illumos is only the ON part to Solaris, bootable in the future if you're lucky. And there's a delta missing between ON and Indiana (aka OpenSolaris). Just as there is a delta between Indiana and full blown Solaris 10 / Solaris 11. Call it a niche product but it's something I personally find attractive to have something between both and am still searching. well, from any practical standpoint, you have to wait for Solaris 11 Express program, which is the most fitting answer to your question. on the other hand, I also wonder how update/patch will be handled with Solaris 11 Express program since it will probably employ a longer release period than Indiana, will there be a repo for security related patches? I am not worried about Oracle being able to come up support scheme for entities with big $$, rather I am concerned with how a mere individual like me can run Solaris 11 Express with security patches.. (with Indiana, it's just a matter of following the latest build) Cheers, Ivan. So, ladies and gentlemen: where is the alternative? Cheers Stefan -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
[...] on the other hand, I also wonder how update/patch will be handled with Solaris 11 Express program since it will probably employ a longer release period than Indiana, will there be a repo for security related patches? I am not worried about Oracle being able to come up support scheme for entities with big $$, rather I am concerned with how a mere individual like me can run Solaris 11 Express with security patches.. (with Indiana, it's just a matter of following the latest build) Let's say an individual, without an (expensive!) support contract, was running Solaris 10. Without the support contract, AFAIK there's no patch access anymore, not even for security patches. But one could still update whenever a new release came out, which has usually been at least once a year. IMO, that's not nearly often enough for an Internet-facing business system. But it might be good enough for an individual, esp. if they're behind a filtering broadband router/firewall, and particularly if additional precautions like http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/817-0404/chapter2-26?l=ena=view are applicable and used. I would hope that at worst, Solaris 11 Express (assuming that support will be available for it, and I think I recall reading that it will) or Solaris 11 when it comes out, would be similar; except that if IPS updates replace patches, I would worry whether dated releases of Solaris 11 would still appear, or only updates that one had to have support to get. I'd hate to be stuck with Solaris 11 FCS until Solaris 12 came out! Still, the premium-only support options seem to me to leave individuals and small businesses out in the cold; and since today's small spenders may be next year's big spenders, I'm not quite sure I see the point in ignoring them. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
Hi Stefan, now that OpenSolaris as a distribution is dead, it might be getting time to move on. Question: which one of the distributions based on the Solaris kernel comes closest to Indiana, i.e. contains as much as legally possible from the 'official' Solaris world while still being open source? I mean, ZFS, zones, Xvm/Xen, IPS, self healing, automated installation, you name it. That's Solaris 11. As John Fowler said, it will become available later this year as a preview release. Assuming that you're currently using OpenSolaris 2009.06 or a later build, you're enjoying a preview of Solaris 11 already. Nobody from Oracle said Solaris 11 won't be open source, so that should satisfy all of your requirements above. What I definitely do not want is the Solaris kernel under the hood of a Linux distribution. *yuck* No need for that. Just give Oracle some more time to explain themselves. And watching Oracle's communications around Oracle Open World is always a good idea. Hope this helps, Constantin -- Constantin Gonzalez Schmitz, Sales Consultant, Oracle Hardware Presales Germany Phone: +49 89 460 08 25 91 | Mobile: +49 172 834 90 30 Blog: http://constantin.glez.de/| Twitter: zalez ORACLE Deutschland B.V. Co. KG, Sonnenallee 1, 85551 Kirchheim-Heimstetten ORACLE Deutschland B.V. Co. KG Hauptverwaltung: Riesstraße 25, D-80992 München Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRA 95603 Komplementärin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V. Rijnzathe 6, 3454PV De Meern, Niederlande Handelsregister der Handelskammer Midden-Niederlande, Nr. 30143697 Geschäftsführer: Jürgen Kunz, Marcel van de Molen, Alexander van der Ven Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect the environment ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
You (Constantin Gonzalez) wrote: Hi Stefan, now that OpenSolaris as a distribution is dead, it might be getting time to move on. Question: which one of the distributions based on the Solaris kernel comes closest to Indiana, i.e. contains as much as legally possible from the 'official' Solaris world while still being open source? I mean, ZFS, zones, Xvm/Xen, IPS, self healing, automated installation, you name it. That's Solaris 11. As John Fowler said, it will become available later this year as a preview release. Assuming that you're currently using OpenSolaris 2009.06 or a later build, you're enjoying a preview of Solaris 11 already. Nobody from Oracle said Solaris 11 won't be open source, so that should satisfy all of your requirements above. What I definitely do not want is the Solaris kernel under the hood of a Linux distribution. *yuck* No need for that. Just give Oracle some more time to explain themselves. And watching Oracle's communications around Oracle Open World is always a good idea. Hope this helps, Constantin And to add to what my colleague Constantin said: If the leaked email is to be believed, there also will be the Open Source part, so I disagree to what Erik wrote here... So, the only significant changes so far known are: - No more Open Development (that's why the OGB dissolved itself) - Open Source ONLY AFTER the corresponding binary distribution - Name Change for the binary distribution: OpenSolaris in now called Solaris 11 Express Hope this clarifies a bit... Matthias -- Matthias Pfützner | Tel.: +49 700 PFUETZNER | Sysadmins are highly paid Lichtenbergstr.73 | mailto:matth...@pfuetzner.de | babysitters. D-64289 Darmstadt | AIM: pfuetz, ICQ: 300967487 | Germany | http://www.pfuetzner.de/matthias/ | Unix Haters Handbook ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
Hi Constantin, is there any channel you don't monitor these days? When do you actually sleep? :-) now that OpenSolaris as a distribution is dead, it might be getting time to move on. Question: which one of the distributions based on the Solaris kernel comes closest to Indiana, i.e. contains as much as legally possible from the 'official' Solaris world while still being open source? I mean, ZFS, zones, Xvm/Xen, IPS, self healing, automated installation, you name it. That's Solaris 11. As John Fowler said, it will become available later this year as a preview release. Well, at least with Xvm/Xen, that could be difficult facing the fact that Oracle has dropped that in favor of OVM, no? And xVM might be only programmatic for what most people fear: decisions that are purely led by economical aspects and not by technological concerns. What comes next? Restrict the number of cores or amount of addressable memory on the community edition? [...] Nobody from Oracle said Solaris 11 won't be open source, so that should satisfy all of your requirements above. Well, you have to admit that Oracle's licensing scheme in other parts of the empire tends to be somewhat restrictive wrt. to under what circumstances you're eligible to use the software. That's what I like about OSOL - no risk whatsoever to run into underlicensing situations etc.. Can you guarantee that for SX(I)CE? What I definitely do not want is the Solaris kernel under the hood of a Linux distribution. *yuck* No need for that. Just give Oracle some more time to explain themselves. You're right in that it might be fair not to express doubts but to wait for the facts. But at least in this case, Oracle is not particularly good at increasing my patience ;-) Cheers Stefan. Acando GmbH Geschäftsführer: Michael Mörchen Amtsgericht Hamburg, HRB 76048 Ust.Ident-Nr.:DE208833022 Haftungsausschluss: Diese Nachricht ist ausschließlich für die Person oder Einheit bestimmt, an die sie gerichtet ist. Sie enthält unter Umständen Informationen, die unter geltendem Recht vertraulich, gesetzlich geschützt oder von der Offenlegung ausgeschlossen sind. Falls Sie nicht der vorgesehene Empfänger oder verantwortlich für die Weiterleitung dieser Nachricht an den vorgesehenen Empfänger sind, ist es Ihnen strengstens untersagt, diese Nachricht offenzulegen, zu verteilen, zu kopieren oder in irgendeiner Art zu benutzen. Sollten Sie diese Nachricht versehentlich erhalten haben, benachrichtigen Sie bitte den Absender und löschen und vernichten Sie jegliche Kopie davon, die Sie möglicherweise erhalten haben. Disclaimer: This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information which is privileged, confidential, proprietary, or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, distributing, copying, or in any way using this message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and destroy and delete any copies you may have received. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
Hi Stefan, disclaimerI'm an Oracle employee, everything I say here is my personal opinion though, I'm not speaking for my company./disclaimer is there any channel you don't monitor these days? When do you actually sleep? :-) I have a degree from Sun in high volume email scanning :). Well, at least with Xvm/Xen, that could be difficult facing the fact that Oracle has dropped that in favor of OVM, no? And xVM might be only programmatic for what most people fear: decisions that are purely led by economical aspects and not by technological concerns. What comes next? Restrict the number of cores or amount of addressable memory on the community edition? Oracle VM is not a bad product. But I agree it could be improved by adding more Solaris guts to it. Well, you have to admit that Oracle's licensing scheme in other parts of the empire tends to be somewhat restrictive wrt. to under what circumstances you're eligible to use the software. That's what I like about OSOL - no risk whatsoever to run into underlicensing situations etc.. Can you guarantee that for SX(I)CE? One of the lesser known features of Oracle VM is that it's free: http://www.oracle.com/us/technologies/virtualization/oraclevm/index.html As for Solaris 10 (and presumably its successor): - Yes, you need a license and a support contract to run it in production. - No, you don't need to pay for it if you're doing an evaluation or development. It is more restrictive than the OpenSolaris binary distribution used to be, but it IMHO is permissive enough in a fair way for everybody who derives any value from Solaris as a technology: - As a developer, you get to try out, learn and develop cool stuff. - As a business, you get to profit from its advanced features, provided you share some of your profits with the people that created Solaris in the first place. Cheers, Constantin -- Constantin Gonzalez Schmitz, Sales Consultant, Oracle Hardware Presales Germany Phone: +49 89 460 08 25 91 | Mobile: +49 172 834 90 30 Blog: http://constantin.glez.de/| Twitter: zalez ORACLE Deutschland B.V. Co. KG, Sonnenallee 1, 85551 Kirchheim-Heimstetten ORACLE Deutschland B.V. Co. KG Hauptverwaltung: Riesstraße 25, D-80992 München Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRA 95603 Komplementärin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V. Rijnzathe 6, 3454PV De Meern, Niederlande Handelsregister der Handelskammer Midden-Niederlande, Nr. 30143697 Geschäftsführer: Jürgen Kunz, Marcel van de Molen, Alexander van der Ven Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect the environment ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
You (Stefan Müller-Wilken) wrote: Hi Constantin, is there any channel you don't monitor these days? When do you actually sleep? :-) He has young kids... ;-) now that OpenSolaris as a distribution is dead, it might be getting time to move on. Question: which one of the distributions based on the Solaris kernel comes closest to Indiana, i.e. contains as much as legally possible from the 'official' Solaris world while still being open source? I mean, ZFS, zones, Xvm/Xen, IPS, self healing, automated installation, you name it. That's Solaris 11. As John Fowler said, it will become available later this year as a preview release. Well, at least with Xvm/Xen, that could be difficult facing the fact that Oracle has dropped that in favor of OVM, no? And xVM might be only programmatic for what most people fear: decisions that are purely led by economical aspects and not by technological concerns. What comes next? Restrict the number of cores or amount of addressable memory on the community edition? OracleVM is there for free... ;-) And I never got, what was so attractive about Xen in Solaris... ;-) FOR ME (and I put it in capital letters, as I know, there will be many flaming me hereafter) a hypervisor is the new BIOS. And shouldn't be seen as more. It's a tool, some small software to help you run an OS on a virtualized infrastructure. If it works, it works. OK, now for the part, that will get me flamed... The arguments, that dtrace et.al. might be used in Xen, are not enough for me to support the further apoption of Xen to Solaris: Dtrace NEVER was a synchronous part and NEVER had guaranteed access to the Xen-internals (technically not feasable). Crossbox might be seen as an advantage in the Dom0, yes, but that part could be added to OracleVM, I guess. ZFS in the dom0, why? In architectures of a bigger size, the storage for the DomU will NOT be hosted on the same physical box, so some kind of network access is there, be it iSCSI, NFS or FC (SAN). That leaves the classical I don't want to learn a new OS question. If you hide the config and management of the OracleVM with a good GUI (just like VMware does with the Linux inside), why worry? OK, these are all my thinking. So, we need Solaris to be a GOOD domU, and that will be the case! So, Stefan, where do you see the superiority of Solaris as a dom0? [...] Nobody from Oracle said Solaris 11 won't be open source, so that should satisfy all of your requirements above. Well, you have to admit that Oracle's licensing scheme in other parts of the empire tends to be somewhat restrictive wrt. to under what circumstances you're eligible to use the software. That's what I like about OSOL - no risk whatsoever to run into underlicensing situations etc.. Can you guarantee that for SX(I)CE? Ever heard of Oracle suing a single person? So, yes, there might be the 90-day thing, et.al., still, all my new Oracle colleagues re-affirm myself, that they don't believe, that the single individual might get into trouble. Yes, I see, that for S(mall)M(edium)B(usiness)es there might be a new risk, but whoever wanted Solaris wanted to PROFIT from its quality. And quality might always have a price, right? There MUST be a reason, why Sun is no more... ;-) And I would not blame it one the quality aspect of Solaris... ;-) What I definitely do not want is the Solaris kernel under the hood of a Linux distribution. *yuck* No need for that. Just give Oracle some more time to explain themselves. You're right in that it might be fair not to express doubts but to wait for the facts. But at least in this case, Oracle is not particularly good at increasing my patience ;-) Right, but in all cases, Oracle never really announced stuff so much in advance as Sun did... So, that's a change in external behaviour, but not necessarily an indication of a different underlying attitude towards the product Solaris itself... Cheers Stefan. Matthias -- Matthias Pfützner | Tel.: +49 700 PFUETZNER | In Darmstadt läuft EHNIX, Lichtenbergstr.73 | mailto:matth...@pfuetzner.de | und das verdammt stabil. D-64289 Darmstadt | AIM: pfuetz, ICQ: 300967487 | Außerdem ist es ZUNIX Germany | http://www.pfuetzner.de/matthias/ | kompatibel. (C. B. Vetter) ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
Constantin Gonzalez constantin.gonza...@oracle.com wrote: Nobody from Oracle said Solaris 11 won't be open source, so that should satisfy all of your requirements above. What I definitely do not want is the Solaris kernel under the hood of a Linux distribution. *yuck* No need for that. Just give Oracle some more time to explain themselves. The OGB did give Oracle nearly 5 months to explain themselves, nothing happened. Since August 18th, there are no source updates anymore. Oracle would need to make a big change to meet your hope. Jörg -- EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni) joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
1. Some source consolidations are still being updated. 2. Much of ON_147/148 is in the open. Oracle mentioned they are providing a supported Solaris Express in place of the OSOL binaries of the past. The kernel sources are very recent to gain a 'like Solaris 11' experience today. ~ Ken --- On Mon, 8/30/10, Joerg Schilling joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de wrote: From: Joerg Schilling joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de Subject: Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it? To: stefan.mueller-wil...@acando.de, opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org, constantin.gonza...@oracle.com Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 2:52 PM Constantin Gonzalez constantin.gonza...@oracle.com wrote: Nobody from Oracle said Solaris 11 won't be open source, so that should satisfy all of your requirements above. What I definitely do not want is the Solaris kernel under the hood of a Linux distribution. *yuck* No need for that. Just give Oracle some more time to explain themselves. The OGB did give Oracle nearly 5 months to explain themselves, nothing happened. Since August 18th, there are no source updates anymore. Oracle would need to make a big change to meet your hope. Jörg ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
On 08/31/10 03:52 AM, Matthias Pfützner wrote: Right, but in all cases, Oracle never really announced stuff so much in advance as Sun did... So, that's a change in external behaviour, but not necessarily an indication of a different underlying attitude towards the product Solaris itself... Let's just hope for their sake they understand the OS platform market and its flow of information is way different from the database market. It is very hard and very expensive to migrate a business from one database platform to another, so customers are effectively locked in. One of my clients is spending many man years and a small fortune doing this. It is comparatively easy and cheap to swap OS and hardware. The further customers can see what's coming to plan ahead the less likely they are to move. -- Ian. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
Oracle mentioned they are providing a supported Solaris Express in place of the OSOL binaries of the past. The kernel sources are very recent to gain a 'like Solaris 11' experience today. ~ Ken Well...they have a tendency of mentioning stuff and falling short from delivering. does this sound familiar: Oracle will continue to make OpenSolaris available as open source, and Oracle will continue to actively support and participate in the community, Dan Roberts, director of Solaris product management at Oracle, said during an OpenSolaris IRC (define) meeting Oracle is investing more in Solaris than Sun did prior to the acquisition, and will continue to contribute technologies to OpenSolaris, as Oracle already does for many other open source projects. Oracle will also continue to deliver OpenSolaris releases, including the upcoming OpenSolaris 2010.03 release, Roberts said. well...I guess many know the saying fool me once, shame on... and if they do release it, i'm sure there will be strings attached. I think we all should put our foot down and support illumos,nexenta,etc to have a true community driven OS and let oracle go :-) I've already replaced my opensolaris installs with nexenta core 3. ) -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
There's a lot more in common in the userland than you might think. Well, the problem is not so much the large amount of things that _are_ in common, it's the small number things that are not. I've been using Linux distributions 1994, half of my household - including TV settop box (LinVDR) and radio (MusicPal) - runs on Linux. So, when I decide to use Solaris, it is definitely not yet another Linux I'm interested in. On the other hand, I'm intrigued by the idea of having a similar 'distribution scheme' as with Linux: open and community driven development process, lightweight assembly of things, complete freedom to use in both educative and commercial settings - but still easily upgraded to the real thing (TM). Just download it on one CD, install on any piece of hardware, use it for simple desktops but also servers and never have to wonder if this is still internal development use or already commercial. And whenever you or the customer feels that it's time for professional support, you simply buy that support contract and are save. That's what I loved much about OpenSolaris! Cheers Mobi. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
On 8/28/2010 4:24 PM, Dmitry G. Kozhinov wrote: There's also a community distro in the works, stay tuned. Is this the Illumos project? Dmitry. Not specifically. IllumOS will provide a core set, basically what was ON. It's bootable already, with the inclusion of some closed binary plugs. Think of IllumOS as the distro-builder's base. A full Distro still should be built on top of IllumOS - things like which packaging system, filesystem layout, GNOME/KDE/etc, are properly part of a full Distro, and not IllumOS. -- Erik Trimble Java System Support Mailstop: usca22-123 Phone: x17195 Santa Clara, CA Timezone: US/Pacific (GMT-0800) ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org just a thought, devs with the proper skills could use opensolaris snv_134 OS, replace the the non free packages with free packages from illumos and strip all of opensolaris trade marks and replace them with an other name somthing like saturn OS or somthing else if the CDDL permits this and use that as a dev platform and they could use a page from the old CSRG from 70s-80's invite universities and ask students sign up form Google Summer of Code to help devlop new OS relaese and they could use illumos as a gate. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
the real thing (TM) project ?? +1 Unfortunately, Oracle might not like the either or'ness of it . and never have to wonder if this is still internal development use or already commercial ?? -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 10:34 AM, Edward Martinez mindbende...@live.com wrote: just a thought, devs with the proper skills could use opensolaris snv_134 OS, replace the the non free packages with free packages from illumos and strip all of opensolaris trade marks and replace them with an other name somthing like saturn OS or somthing else if the CDDL permits this and use that as a dev platform and they could use a page from the old CSRG from 70s-80's invite universities and ask students sign up form Google Summer of Code to help devlop new OS relaese and they could use illumos as a gate. There is something to this effect in progress - stay tuned for an announcement. GSoC is a great idea to pursue next year. -Albert ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
There is something to this effect in progress - stay tuned for an announcement. GSoC is a great idea to pursue next year. -Albert ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org all goodie... I thought my opensolaris books became door stoppers ;) it may attract some customers that are upset at oracle for allegedly discontinuing opensolaris. clip: An IT manager of a large New England utility told SearchDataCenter.com earlier this summer that price-performance analyses motivated the company's decision to move from legacy Sun SPARC hardware to IBM Power Systems. Irritation over Oracle's handling of OpenSolaris convinced a large West Coast Sun shop to start moving its OpenSolaris/ZFS storage systems over to NetApp. He said future hardware purchases will come from HP -- not Sun. Sun server sales swoon http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/news/article/0,289142,sid80_gci1519243,00.html -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
On 8/29/2010 3:11 PM, Edward Martinez wrote: There is something to this effect in progress - stay tuned for an announcement. GSoC is a great idea to pursue next year. -Albert ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org all goodie... I thought my opensolaris books became door stoppers ;) it may attract some customers that are upset at oracle for allegedly discontinuing opensolaris. Open development of code by non-Oracle folks is effectively completely dead for OpenSolaris. IllumOS is a *fork* of OpenSolaris - they'll try (very hard) to maintain ABI compatibility, but they're now off on their own direction. Code drops from Oracle Solaris (if they really are going to be made available, which is unknown at this time) will NOT automatically be integrated into IllumOS. To paraphrase a IllumOS dude: we'll treat code drops from Oracle (if they ever occur) just like we would work from some super-secretive Ted Kaczynski-like idiot-savant hermit coder - they need to be carefully screened, and slowly added to the codebase only if it seems reasonable, not as if it were some missive from God. Frankly, for GSoC work, Solaris/Solaris Express are no longer Open Source projects, for any real [practical, functional] definition of Open Source. That said, there are existing OpenSolaris-based distros already, and there are expected to be announcements for several IllumOS-based projects which effectively mimic the feel of OpenSolaris. -Erik ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
On 30 Aug 2010, at 03:51, Erik Trimble wrote: Open development of code by non-Oracle folks is effectively completely dead for OpenSolaris. Only for onnv so far. SFW/JDS/PKG/etc are still being developed in the open. And some community people still have commit access I think? So not completely dead. Just, mostly :-) ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
On 28 Aug 2010, at 20:51, Stefan Mueller-Wilken wrote: Dear all, now that OpenSolaris as a distribution is dead, it might be getting time to move on. Question: which one of the distributions based on the Solaris kernel comes closest to Indiana, i.e. contains as much as legally possible from the 'official' Solaris world while still being open source? I mean, ZFS, zones, Xvm/Xen, IPS, self healing, automated installation, you name it. What I definitely do not want is the Solaris kernel under the hood of a Linux distribution. *yuck* Officially, Solaris 11 Express, due to come out before the end of the year. There's also a community distro in the works, stay tuned. If you're interested in getting involved, contact me offlist. Cheers, Alasdair ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Stefan Mueller-Wilken stefan.mueller-wil...@acando.de wrote: Dear all, now that OpenSolaris as a distribution is dead, it might be getting time to move on. Question: which one of the distributions based on the Solaris kernel comes closest to Indiana, i.e. contains as much as legally possible from the 'official' Solaris world while still being open source? I mean, ZFS, zones, Xvm/Xen, IPS, self healing, automated installation, you name it. Most of the important features are part of the core of OpenSolaris or readily available to other distributions, the OpenSolaris distro was largely differentiated by its packaging and installation. What I definitely do not want is the Solaris kernel under the hood of a Linux distribution. *yuck* There's a lot more in common in the userland than you might think. -Albert ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
There's also a community distro in the works, stay tuned. Is this the Illumos project? Dmitry. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana - what comes closest to it?
On 8/28/2010 4:24 PM, Dmitry G. Kozhinov wrote: There's also a community distro in the works, stay tuned. Is this the Illumos project? Dmitry. Not specifically. IllumOS will provide a core set, basically what was ON. It's bootable already, with the inclusion of some closed binary plugs. Think of IllumOS as the distro-builder's base. A full Distro still should be built on top of IllumOS - things like which packaging system, filesystem layout, GNOME/KDE/etc, are properly part of a full Distro, and not IllumOS. -- Erik Trimble Java System Support Mailstop: usca22-123 Phone: x17195 Santa Clara, CA Timezone: US/Pacific (GMT-0800) ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
