[opensource-dev] Near clip plane for impostors
Hello all, Does anyone know how I can control the value of the near clip plane for the rendering of impostors please ? I've noticed that the camera will clip them from 1m away, leaving holes in it, but sometimes the camera is restricted to even closer than that, so I need to be able to render them fully even from up close. Thanks, Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Question about the rendering and how to hide textures selectively
Hi all, I've been looking and doing trial-and-error for hours, and still haven't found out how to do this : I'd like to add a way to the RLV to actually not render the diffuse textures in world (but still render them on the avatars and their attachments, and render normal and specular maps in-world as well), both in deferred and forward rendering. Basically I want the world to look as if no texture was rezzed, except for the avatars and all their attachments. As a bonus, I want partly (not totally) transparent surfaces in world to be opaque and untextured as well. Anyone among you knows how to do that without butchering the rendering pipeline ? It shouldn't be hard, but I've been searching for hours for the spot where the viewer retrieves a texture by its UUID in the fetched textures, to apply it to a face, but no way to find that. Thanks for any pointer you could give me, Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Question about the rendering and how to hide textures selectively
Yes I have been looking into them already, but they at best display even more geometry on top of what's already rendered. I would like not to add more strain on the rendering than there already is. As for the reason, it is to go with the new features I'm adding to the RLV v2.9 (see my blog for details : realrestraint.blogspot.com). In short, it is meant for the avatar to be blindfolded in a more interesting way than just to have a big prim hogging the screen and blocking the view. I want the immediate vicinity to be visible but things a little farther to be hidden from view. With all the camera restrictions that come with it. All that is already done and working well, but I want the textures to be hidden (save for the bump shine), because the color of a surface is not supposed to be visible, only the touch feeling of it. On a side note, this won't be appropriate only for blindfolds, but also for mazes and multiplayer games where the camera is supposed to be restricted to be close to the avatar. On 12 June 2014 15:28, Ambrosia chaoss...@gmail.com wrote: Why not look at parts of the code that get used for fancy displays already? For example the development - render metadata - physics(?) dipslay. It removes all in-world textures and shows physics as colors on the objects. I am sure you can find something interesting in that code. --Chalice Yao On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Marine Kelley marinekel...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I've been looking and doing trial-and-error for hours, and still haven't found out how to do this : I'd like to add a way to the RLV to actually not render the diffuse textures in world (but still render them on the avatars and their attachments, and render normal and specular maps in-world as well), both in deferred and forward rendering. Basically I want the world to look as if no texture was rezzed, except for the avatars and all their attachments. As a bonus, I want partly (not totally) transparent surfaces in world to be opaque and untextured as well. Anyone among you knows how to do that without butchering the rendering pipeline ? It shouldn't be hard, but I've been searching for hours for the spot where the viewer retrieves a texture by its UUID in the fetched textures, to apply it to a face, but no way to find that. Thanks for any pointer you could give me, Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Question about the rendering and how to hide textures selectively
Oh, right, I didn't think of looking into the Highlight Transparent feature, thanks ! On 12 June 2014 16:11, Marine Kelley marinekel...@gmail.com wrote: Yes I have been looking into them already, but they at best display even more geometry on top of what's already rendered. I would like not to add more strain on the rendering than there already is. As for the reason, it is to go with the new features I'm adding to the RLV v2.9 (see my blog for details : realrestraint.blogspot.com). In short, it is meant for the avatar to be blindfolded in a more interesting way than just to have a big prim hogging the screen and blocking the view. I want the immediate vicinity to be visible but things a little farther to be hidden from view. With all the camera restrictions that come with it. All that is already done and working well, but I want the textures to be hidden (save for the bump shine), because the color of a surface is not supposed to be visible, only the touch feeling of it. On a side note, this won't be appropriate only for blindfolds, but also for mazes and multiplayer games where the camera is supposed to be restricted to be close to the avatar. On 12 June 2014 15:28, Ambrosia chaoss...@gmail.com wrote: Why not look at parts of the code that get used for fancy displays already? For example the development - render metadata - physics(?) dipslay. It removes all in-world textures and shows physics as colors on the objects. I am sure you can find something interesting in that code. --Chalice Yao On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Marine Kelley marinekel...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I've been looking and doing trial-and-error for hours, and still haven't found out how to do this : I'd like to add a way to the RLV to actually not render the diffuse textures in world (but still render them on the avatars and their attachments, and render normal and specular maps in-world as well), both in deferred and forward rendering. Basically I want the world to look as if no texture was rezzed, except for the avatars and all their attachments. As a bonus, I want partly (not totally) transparent surfaces in world to be opaque and untextured as well. Anyone among you knows how to do that without butchering the rendering pipeline ? It shouldn't be hard, but I've been searching for hours for the spot where the viewer retrieves a texture by its UUID in the fetched textures, to apply it to a face, but no way to find that. Thanks for any pointer you could give me, Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Question about the rendering and how to hide textures selectively
That did the trick ! I replaced tex in that method by LLViewerFetchedTexture::sDefaultImagep, and the whole world is untextured (although colored, which I will fix too). Now I just have to find out how to differentiate between world surfaces and attachment surfaces, and it will work perfectly. Thank you Nicky and all ! On 12 June 2014 17:09, Nicky D. sl.nicky...@googlemail.com wrote: Anyone among you knows how to do that without butchering the rendering pipeline ? It shouldn't be hard, but I've been searching for hours for the spot where the viewer retrieves a texture by its UUID in the fetched textures, to apply it to a face, but no way to find that. I'd start by looking at LLVolumeGeometryManager::registerFace and swap out the various textures that go into LLDrawInfo. Nicky ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Not all Open Source developers are honest...
Henri has been putting a considerable number of hours over several years into fixing bugs and making improvements, including into other people's viewers ! If what he says is true (and I have no doubt that it is since it is easy to verify), this kind of thing is totally unacceptable. TPV developers ought to behave exemplarily because users put their data into their hands and trust them not to mess around with it. When one dev misbehaves, it drops a shade of doubt on every other dev in the community. I sincerely hope this was a misstep. On 01/06/2013, Henri Beauchamp sl...@free.fr wrote: On Sat, 1 Jun 2013 18:57:31 +0200, Martin Fürholz wrote: Ah! I misread the “joined” date on that forum page as the “posted” date, this happens all the time :D I’m sorry, last time that I’ve heard anything about Kirstenlee’s viewer was a couple of years ago, and S19 is also a couple of years old, as far as I can tell (and I’m pretty sure about that). See http://virtyou.com/viewer_track/ as a proof (Kirstenlee’s viewer “S20” was built in 2010). S20 is a v2 viewer, so it's obviously a different branch. It is quite possible that Kirsten used the Cool VL Viewer sources and the incremental patches I publish with every release to follow my progresses on it, but it's obviously the very same viewer with just a couple of patches added (a 600Kb diff is NOTHING, especially when you see what the changes are about in this diff... a i++ instead of a ++i is not significant a change !). In fact, I don't care if Kirsten forks my viewer, what I care about is that he obviously pretends being the person behind the 3000+ hours of coding *I* spent on this code over the 6+ years of continuous development ! If anyone got more to say about this matter, please let's move it to the Cool VL Viewer forum: I don't want to polute this list more than I already did (but I thought it was important to bring up such an issue). Henri. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Serious regression in SSB-enabled regions
What Henri said. Avatar height offset is a variable that currently changes OFTEN, that's even the reason why it was added as a RLV command, so that it could be changed automatically without annoying the user too much. If this is now a shape slider, and viewer devs like me have to deal with accordingly, this means this RLV command will trigger a shape rebake every time it is issued, which would happen, like I said, OFTEN. And like Lance mentioned, I'm not even sure this would work on no-mod shapes anyway. I'm not saying the old parameter was ideal. In fact it was a just acceptable solution since it didn't actually modify the altitude of the avatar but its height, its bounding box. It would have been better if it were an offset, and we could modify it in X, Y and Z independently, and beyond [ -0.5, +0.5 ]. I'm saying that this new parameter will make it even less ideal. The formula for calculating the correct value to send to the viewer via the RLV command is not trivial, the extrema of this new slider are [ -2.0, +2.0 ] if I'm not mistaken, and we will have to issue the command in two different ways according to whether we are in a SSB-enabled region or not. That's a lot of work and development time for us. Perhaps it is easy for you to add a slider, but this solution is far, far from ideal for us. It is currently a debug setting (which name varies from viewer to viewer). Can't we have a solution that involves a debug setting instead of a shape slider, so we don't have to rewrite everything ? Please ? Marine On 02/03/2013, Henri Beauchamp sl...@free.fr wrote: On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 16:20:10 -0500, Nyx Linden wrote: https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/sunshine-external/commits/108ae1ed56ea38426df239ef3247f57fb63d0806 Added a new parameter to shapes to replace the viewer-side height offset. Since it is stored in a wearable, the new back end can read and use the value. Will send an email to third party devs later today to let them know to pick up the patch. ARRRG ! Adding a new parameter to the shape is NOT a suitable way to achieve equivalent results as what we could get so far in non-SSB sims: each time a new (sit, lay, kneel, crouch, crawl...) animation is played, you need to adjust the Z-offset: this can't obviously be achieved by each time changing a shape parameter, saving the new shape, and then asking for a (full !) rebake: the Z-offset (and more exactly the avatar height as requested by the viewer depending on the currently worn shape and the Z-offset) needs to be accounted for in real time (like what LLAgent::sendAgentSetAppearance() allowed to do), indenpendently of the other visual parameters; the shape wearable itself should be left untouched when the height is adjusted via the Z offset. Marking SUN-38 as resolved. Nope, I'm sorry, but it's far from resolved Henri. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] I just filed two jiras against the current viewer-development source that are kind of bad.
Confirmed, voted and watched for both. That would explain the strange behaviors I have been observing on the latest build the last few days. Thanks for creating these tickets. On 18/08/2012, Lance Corrimal lance.corri...@eregion.de wrote: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-29531 https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-29532 those two together make 3.4.1 as it is just now pretty much unusable... bye, LC ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Camming inside an object makes the camera jump again
Hi all, For a month now, any viewer built from the v-d repository has that odd bug back : When you focus your camera inside a hollowed-out prim and you move the camera itself inside it as well, it makes you zoom in instead, making it very difficult to focus on anything. This bug had been fixed a few months ago to my great joy, and now it surfaces again. Does anybody know where to find this feature in the code so I can fix it please ? Any pointer is appreciated. Thanks, Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] ok this may sound dumb but what is the llphysicsextention package
Seconded !! On 08/08/2012, Henri Beauchamp sl...@free.fr wrote: On Tue, 07 Aug 2012 16:45:03 -0700, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote: On 2012-08-07 16:09 , Angel Dreams wrote: its something i saw i never seen that package before is it new or something? It is the wrapper around the Havok functionality in the viewer. It replaces (and incorporates) llconvexdecomposition. ^^ Which is unfortunate... because Open Source viewers all use HACD to replace the closed source llconvexdecomposition. I'd suggest that the HAVOC stub is kept separate from the llconvexdecomposition stub. Henri. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Fix for SH-2941 breaks HACD-k ?
Thanks for the precisions. I am using v178, ported on to Dolphin and then to my RLV by Lance... I don't know how it works at all, personally. All I know is that the changeset I pointed is the culprit for all the errors I get (well, I got only MAV_BLOCK_MISSING so far). It's deterministic : with the changeset it occurs everytime, without the changeset it never occurs. The changeset adds mutexes all over llmeshrepository so maybe it is related (it makes the upload time out or something). The changes are many across that file, so I didn't look in detail (I don't have time). On 14/05/2012, Nicky Perian nickyper...@yahoo.com wrote: Using OpenMP based library. https://bitbucket.org/NickyP/viewer-development-os-mesh-upload/downloads/Second_Life_3-3-3-db7e740f3883-d84e0f52d036_LindenDeveloper_Setup.exe ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Fix for SH-2941 breaks HACD-k ?
Hello all, Having pulled the latest changesets from v-d to my viewer lately, I observed that the resulting build would not be able to upload mesh anymore, ending up with a MAV_BLOCK_MISSING message every time (no matter what I do, even following the several options depicted in https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MAINT-872). After some search, it appears that the change 23045 (eab0b05bf0bc) (SH-2941 Fix for crash on shutdown due to race condition between LLCurl and LLMesh) is the cause of the error. Reverting llmeshrepository.cpp (the only file in this changeset) to its previous version fixes the problem, but negates Dave's fix. I am aware that HACD-k is not under the responsibility of LL, it is an open source work, but would someone like to look into this ? I am not qualified at all, having no clue about how mesh upload works. Thanks, Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Need help about EXT-1285
Thanks WolfPup. With this change and a couple other tweaks, I could finally get an inverted dialog box, which achieves exactly what I wanted with my option 1. Kudos ! Marine On 31/10/2011, WolfPup Lowenhar wolfpu...@earthlink.net wrote: The position of the buttons can be easily move by changing line 87 of panel_notification.xml. Orginal : follows=left|right|bottom Top placement : follows=left|right|top - this should move the buttons to the top of the layout but also might have to move lines 85-99 to the top of the xml file as well plus modify the other sections accordingly. -Original Message- From: opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com [mailto:opensource-dev- boun...@lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Marine Kelley Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 11:54 AM To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com Subject: [opensource-dev] Need help about EXT-1285 Hi all ! I need help ! I'm working on adapting my RLV to version 3.2.0 of the viewer, and hitting a wall here. Let me explain the problem : In V1.x, script dialog boxes (the blue menus) were located on the upper right corner of the screen, with a fixed size text area in which the script could write what it wanted (up to 512 chars), with a scrollbar when needed. Then there were the buttons below that area. This had a nice side effect though, the buttons were always at the same place on the screen, so for repetitive tasks with dialogs you knew well, you didn't have to actually read before clicking. The scrollbar wasn't very practical, so LL decided to move the dialogs down to the lower right corner of the screen in v2.x, in exchange of making the dialogs variable in size. Best of both worlds, the dialogs were showing all the info at first glance without the need for a scrollbar, and the buttons were always at the same spot (although the sidebar was complicating things a little, but it was still workable). Now in v3 the dialogs are back to the upper right corner of the screen as part of EXT-1285 (coded and released by Seth Productengine). Ok, but no scrollbar means the buttons are NOT always at the same place anymore and that... is unacceptable to me. I absolutely need to change this, this is not practicable as it is. So I have two options. Either leave the dialogs where they are now and move the buttons of the dialog window BEFORE the text, or move the dialogs back to the lower right corner of the screen. Option 1 is good for v1 users, but a little confusing since the dialogs would not look like they always did. However I have spent some time looking for a way to do this, and never found HOW to move these buttons up before the text. I know the dialog is roughly defined in notifications.xml under the name ScriptDialog, but I don't see where the list of buttons is constructed. The point of this email is partly to ask how to do this. Option 2 is good for v2 users, however it has a nasty side-effect : notification boxes (are you sure you want to quit and such) are linked to the tool bar or something. I haven't found where to change that and this is also the point of this email. I prefer option 1 personally, but I fear moving the buttons would look like a lame hack. Can anybody give me pointers about how to implement either option please ? Or better, both options ! Thank you in advance, Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1834 / Virus Database: 2092/4586 - Release Date: 10/31/11 ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] how to read minidumps
The Shadok is strong in this one... On 04/10/2011, Henri Beauchamp sl...@free.fr wrote: On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 12:23:51 +0200, Thickbrick Sleaford wrote: On Tuesday 04 October 2011 09:31:00 Lance Corrimal wrote: hi, I'm pretty sure noone at LL is interested in the minidumps from my TPV, so I'll have to read them myself... how do i do that? At least on the Linux side, breakpad provides minidump_stackwalk, which takes a minidump file and a symbols file and produces a stack trace. That executable is not provided with the linden-packaged breakpad though. You will also need to make sure the symbols file you are using is from the same build that produced the minidump. We've got a saying for this kind of silliness, in France: Pourquoi faire simple quand on peut faire compliqué ? (Why doing it the simple way when you can find a complex way to do it ?) I guess the stack_trace.log file what just too simple in LL's view... * rolls eyes and shakes head, sighing deeply * Henri. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Current status of Mesh??
On 31/08/2011, Robert Martin robertl...@gmail.com wrote: 2 are there any simple tools to make models (Blender does not qualify). Why doesn't Blender qualify ? ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Current status of Mesh??
On 01/09/2011, Lance Corrimal lance.corri...@eregion.de wrote: Am Donnerstag, 1. September 2011 schrieb Marine Kelley: On 31/08/2011, Robert Martin robertl...@gmail.com wrote: 2 are there any simple tools to make models (Blender does not qualify). Why doesn't Blender qualify ? try it, then look at the word simple again :) Heh, I've been using it steadily for two years now, and two of my best-selling items have been created with it... It's not simple indeed, its learning curve is almost flat (steep would mean exactly the opposite : it takes a long time to learn something on Blender so the curve is flat rather than steep), but it is extremely consistent and actually you can become very productive when you get used to its bizarre UI. But unlike Maya, it is made by developers with a developer mindset, which suits me better since I am no 3D artist. Maya is more powerful, 3D artists are more productive with it, but it is also infinitely more expensive than Blender :p So for a tourist like me, Blender is the tool of choice. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] How to upload a mesh on v-d rev 20205 ?
Hi all, So I have tried to upload a mesh on a viewer built from v-d rev 20205 (the latest I could find, with the llconvexdecomposition fix). I click on Build Upload Model..., I get the dialog to select a .dae file, when I select it I get the model upload window, so far so good. But when I press on the calculate weights fee button, I get some kind of overlay debug message saying Mesh Uploads: 0 (on a side note that message stacks on others and I don't know how to clear it without reloading, I see in the code that it's a temporary hack, but it has made its way into the official viewer v3.0.3 as well), and nothing happens. The upload fee stays TBD, as well as download, physics and server, and the Upload button never becomes available. I guess my viewer never receives the response from the sim. I have made the exact same manipulation on the official v3.0.3 with the same mesh and succeeded, the price came right through and I got a Mesh Uploads: 1 message. Is there something I need to do in my viewer for it to work ? Is it a matter of channel ? Am I missing something there ? Thanks in advance, Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] How to upload a mesh on v-d rev 20205 ?
Thanks... I wouldn't have guessed that all by myself. lol. I see on that JIRA entry that I'm not the only one who is confused one about this issue. I'll give a try to the open source version when able, it seems promising. Marine On 24/08/2011, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) o...@lindenlab.com wrote: On 2011-08-24 14:47, Marine Kelley wrote: So I have tried to upload a mesh on a viewer built from v-d rev 20205 (the latest I could find, with the llconvexdecomposition fix). [...] Is there something I need to do in my viewer for it to work ? Is it a matter of channel ? Am I missing something there ? Yes... you're missing the (commercial) Havok library that we use to create the convex decomposition of the model. The short version is that unless you license Havok, you can't build a viewer today that does model uploads. A few people have been working on an open source solution - watch OPEN-105. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Unjust Banning of residents?
Careful, it could be a phishing attempt. Do NOT click on any of the links inside this email (unless you're certain it comes from Linden Lab, but then again emails can be spoofed). On 16/08/2011, mala...@tamzap.com mala...@tamzap.com wrote: exactly which is why this message is so disturbing. accounts have been terminated from second life for using a viewer not listed in the directory. This email is notification that Linden Lab has terminated your access to the Second Life virtual world due to severe or repeated violations of the Second Life Terms of Service or Community Standards. Your (account name 'xx') and alternate Second Life accounts have been made permanently inaccessible. On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 13:33:39 -0400, Erin Mallory wrote: Last I checked there is no requirement to use an approved tvp. even on the tvp listing page. Looking at the policy and the directory pages, no where does it say that the viewer must be listed in the tvp... http://secondlife.com/corporate/tpv.php http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Third_Party_Viewer_Directory You may connect to Second Life using software released by a third-party developer. Linden Lab provides a Policy on Third-Party Viewers [1] to promote a positive and predictable experience for all Second Life Residents. Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 10:23:21 -0700 From: mala...@tamzap.com To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com Subject: [opensource-dev] Unjust Banning of residents? Violation: Third Party Viewer Usage You are connecting to the grid with a viewer that is not in the third party viewer directory. However... A viewer does not need to be on the Third Party Viewer Directory in order for development or usage of it to be compliant with the Third Party Viewer Policy (see Policy on Third-Party Viewers | Second Life) and the Terms of Service. While I am sure you are well aware of this, it can also be deduced through common sense that the open source program (Snowstorm, Snowglobe, etc) would not be able to exist in an environment where every personal compile had to be listed on the TPVD before it could even begin to undergo any form of live quality assurance processes. Long story short, unless there have been recent changes to the Terms of Service that I am unaware of, or if there are relevant sections that I have missed that indicate that a viewer that complies with the Third Party Viewer Policy still must be in the Directory to be legitimately used, I would request that you provide me with them. What this means is every single BETA tester for every client on the TPVD is at risk of losing their accounts because that compiled version of that client is not listed on the TPVD. Each and every Developer who has worked so hard to help Linden Lab build their Client into what it is is at risk of losing their accounts because each time they recompile the source it isn't listed in the TPVD and is now considered a Violation of some hidden TOS clause. I am posting this to this forum because I wanted to get feed back from the community. As I myself and a developer who has contributed patches to various TPVD Clients and am now finding myself cautious to even use these clients source codes to help them. I would like clarification from Linden Lab as well as other Developers on this new banning policy that is requiring every compiled client that connects to second life to be listed in the TPVD. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges Links: -- [1] http://secondlife.com/corporate/tpv.php ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Concerned about frequent crashes
I crash a lot on 2.8.0, at least twice a day. It is usually a sudden crash to desktop, and from the log it looks like the viewer goes short on memory. It happens more often with deferred rendering on, but it is always random, I could never link it to any particular action I take. My computer has 4GB memory, and is running Win 7 that takes 1.5GB all by itself. But I would believe that 2GB should be enough for the SL viewer... It keeps eating more and more memory though. Seems there is a huge memory leak in the deferred renderer. On 07/08/2011, Lee ponzu lee.po...@gmail.com wrote: I am concerned that the latest viewers have been crashing a lot for the last week or two. I crash as often as 3 times per hour. I attach one crash report below. Is this problem known and being worked on, or is it just me? I am sort of a canary in the coal mine because this is an older iMac and I use Satellite internet, so maybe I expose problems that don't crash other people. Question: When OS X pops up a Problem Report for a crashed app, and says the report is being sent to Apple, do those actually go anywhere? Is there any maybe automated analysis and statistics done? If not, would it be useful? Maybe I could help there. ponzu Process: Second Life [908] Path:/Applications/Viewers/Project Viewer - Mesh.app/Contents/MacOS/Second Life Identifier: com.secondlife.indra.viewer Version: Second Life version 2.8.2.237321 (2.8.2.237321) Code Type: X86 (Native) Parent Process: launchd [631] Date/Time: 2011-08-07 13:26:05.591 -0400 OS Version: Mac OS X 10.6.8 (10K549) Report Version: 6 Interval Since Last Report: 228428 sec Crashes Since Last Report: 4 Per-App Interval Since Last Report: 29574 sec Per-App Crashes Since Last Report: 3 Anonymous UUID: 18404959-AFD8-476A-807F-8B2EE7A368F6 Exception Type: EXC_CRASH (SIGQUIT) Exception Codes: 0x, 0x Crashed Thread: 1 Dispatch queue: com.apple.libdispatch-manager Thread 0: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread 0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b75c5a __kill + 10 1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b75c4c kill$UNIX2003 + 32 2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x91c085a5 raise + 26 3 libllcommon.dylib 0x04965480 default_unix_signal_handler(int, __siginfo*, void*) + 432 4 libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b7b05b _sigtramp + 43 5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b40f56 wait4 + 10 6 libSystem.B.dylib 0x91ba25e5 pclose + 215 7 libllcommon.dylib 0x04a333de LLMemoryInfo::loadStatsMap() + 3598 8 libllcommon.dylib 0x04a34763 LLMemoryInfo::refresh() + 35 9 libllcommon.dylib 0x04a401ee FrameWatcher::tick(LLSD const) + 606 10 libllcommon.dylib 0x04a356d2 boost::detail::function::function_obj_invoker1boost::_bi::bind_tbool, boost::_mfi::mf1bool, FrameWatcher, LLSD const, boost::_bi::list2boost::_bi::valueFrameWatcher*, boost::arg1 , bool, LLSD const::invoke(boost::detail::function::function_buffer, LLSD const) + 82 11 com.secondlife.indra.viewer 0x0175e689 boost::signals2::detail::signal1_implbool, LLSD const, LLStopWhenHandled, float, std::lessfloat, boost::functionbool ()(LLSD const), boost::functionbool ()(boost::signals2::connection const, LLSD const), boost::signals2::mutex::slot_invoker::m_invoke(boost::shared_ptrboost::signals2::detail::connection_bodystd::pairboost::signals2::detail::slot_meta_group, boost::optionalfloat , boost::signals2::slot1bool, LLSD const, boost::functionbool ()(LLSD const) , boost::signals2::mutex const, ...) const + 57 12 com.secondlife.indra.viewer 0x0175e94d boost::signals2::detail::signal1_implbool, LLSD const, LLStopWhenHandled, float, std::lessfloat, boost::functionbool ()(LLSD const), boost::functionbool ()(boost::signals2::connection const, LLSD const), boost::signals2::mutex::operator()(LLSD const) + 525 13 libllcommon.dylib 0x049a71df LLEventStream::post(LLSD const) + 63 14 com.secondlife.indra.viewer 0x000de32d LLAppViewer::mainLoop() + 1453 15 com.secondlife.indra.viewer 0x01350918 main + 568 16 com.secondlife.indra.viewer 0x9ad6 start + 54 Thread 1 Crashed: Dispatch queue: com.apple.libdispatch-manager 0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b3b382 kevent + 10 1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b3ba9c _dispatch_mgr_invoke + 215 2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b3af59 _dispatch_queue_invoke + 163 3 libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b3acfe _dispatch_worker_thread2 + 240 4 libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b3a781 _pthread_wqthread + 390 5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b3a5c6 start_wqthread + 30 Thread 2: 0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b14afa mach_msg_trap + 10 1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x91b15267 mach_msg + 68 2 libexception_handler.dylib 0x04d27bcd
[opensource-dev] llconvexdecomposition on private servers
Hi all, When trying to build rev 20010 (0fd2a1181a96) of viewer-development, I stumbled across a problem with llconvexdecomposition : autobuild.xml links it to http://s3-proxy.lindenlab.com/private-builds-secondlife-com (which is unreachable for anyone outside LL), refusing to download it and leaving me with an old and non source-controlled llconvexdecomposition.h in packages/include/. As a result, llmeshrepository.cpp fails to compile because : - LLConvexDecomposition::getInstance()-setMeshData() should now take 2 arguments whereas the old class only declared one in its pure virtual method (ok that one is trivial to fix) - LLConvexDecomposition::getInstance()-buildSingleHull() is not declared or defined anywhere - Same for LLConvexDecomposition::getInstance()-getSingleHull(), not declared or defined anywhere I assume the latter two fail because these methods are neither declared in llconvexdecomposition.h nor defined in the lib I have, whereas they must be in the new ones. Is there a way to get the updated package please ? I will try to walk around the problem but sooner or later it will come back and bite me. FYI, this comes from the merge at rev 19901 (73b94c4e3f81) Thanks, Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] llconvexdecomposition on private servers
Thanks. That doesn't solve my problem though... I am always using ReleaseOS, and I already had my FMOD package ready with its hash (all included in my autobuild.xml file long ago), all was ready there. My only problem is with the llconvexdecomposition package. What I did in order to build my RLV was this : - Add the missing bool in the method declaration - Turn #if 1 into #if 0 in llmeshrepository.cpp Still, that deactivates things that I don't think should be deactivated. On a side note, while testing this viewer I have noticed that the Ruler drop-down combo list has moved from the Build window into the Options floater of said window. One more click is now needed and even more screen real estate is now required in order to do something that was easier before, with no positive counterpart for this change. Seriously... I can foresee that this is going to piss off a lot of people... On 06/08/2011, WolfPup Lowenhar wolfpu...@earthlink.net wrote: That will happen when you are using the build configurations that do not end in OS as the llconvexdecomposition lib is a private lib using Havok source code. The following configurations will build in an Open Source Evnironment: DebugOS RelWithDebInfoOS ReleaseOS If you are on Windows there s one 3p lib that you will have to build yourself so that you have sound and that is for Fmod and then you can edit the autobuild.xml to use a file:/// url pointing to the package you just built also do not forget to change the hash to match the one for the new file. -Original Message- From: opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com [mailto:opensource-dev- boun...@lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Marine Kelley Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 5:04 AM To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com Subject: [opensource-dev] llconvexdecomposition on private servers Hi all, When trying to build rev 20010 (0fd2a1181a96) of viewer-development, I stumbled across a problem with llconvexdecomposition : autobuild.xml links it to http://s3-proxy.lindenlab.com/private-builds-secondlife-com (which is unreachable for anyone outside LL), refusing to download it and leaving me with an old and non source-controlled llconvexdecomposition.h in packages/include/. As a result, llmeshrepository.cpp fails to compile because : - LLConvexDecomposition::getInstance()-setMeshData() should now take 2 arguments whereas the old class only declared one in its pure virtual method (ok that one is trivial to fix) - LLConvexDecomposition::getInstance()-buildSingleHull() is not declared or defined anywhere - Same for LLConvexDecomposition::getInstance()-getSingleHull(), not declared or defined anywhere I assume the latter two fail because these methods are neither declared in llconvexdecomposition.h nor defined in the lib I have, whereas they must be in the new ones. Is there a way to get the updated package please ? I will try to walk around the problem but sooner or later it will come back and bite me. FYI, this comes from the merge at rev 19901 (73b94c4e3f81) Thanks, Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1391 / Virus Database: 1518/3814 - Release Date: 08/05/11 ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] llconvexdecomposition on private servers
Thank you for that. I will try when I get the time. On 06/08/2011, WolfPup Lowenhar wolfpu...@earthlink.net wrote: Then try building this lib: https://bitbucket.org/WolfpupL/llconvexdecompositionos and use the file method like you do with Fmod to point to the new llconvexdecompositionos lib and see if that helps with the build as there is a couple of missing functions in the stub. Now the lib is not functional but it does have the missing functions. -Original Message- From: Marine Kelley [mailto:marinekel...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 7:41 AM To: WolfPup Lowenhar Cc: OpenSource Mailing List Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] llconvexdecomposition on private servers Thanks. That doesn't solve my problem though... I am always using ReleaseOS, and I already had my FMOD package ready with its hash (all included in my autobuild.xml file long ago), all was ready there. My only problem is with the llconvexdecomposition package. What I did in order to build my RLV was this : - Add the missing bool in the method declaration - Turn #if 1 into #if 0 in llmeshrepository.cpp Still, that deactivates things that I don't think should be deactivated. On a side note, while testing this viewer I have noticed that the Ruler drop-down combo list has moved from the Build window into the Options floater of said window. One more click is now needed and even more screen real estate is now required in order to do something that was easier before, with no positive counterpart for this change. Seriously... I can foresee that this is going to piss off a lot of people... On 06/08/2011, WolfPup Lowenhar wolfpu...@earthlink.net wrote: That will happen when you are using the build configurations that do not end in OS as the llconvexdecomposition lib is a private lib using Havok source code. The following configurations will build in an Open Source Evnironment: DebugOS RelWithDebInfoOS ReleaseOS If you are on Windows there s one 3p lib that you will have to build yourself so that you have sound and that is for Fmod and then you can edit the autobuild.xml to use a file:/// url pointing to the package you just built also do not forget to change the hash to match the one for the new file. -Original Message- From: opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com [mailto:opensource- dev- boun...@lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Marine Kelley Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 5:04 AM To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com Subject: [opensource-dev] llconvexdecomposition on private servers Hi all, When trying to build rev 20010 (0fd2a1181a96) of viewer-development, I stumbled across a problem with llconvexdecomposition : autobuild.xml links it to http://s3-proxy.lindenlab.com/private-builds-secondlife-com (which is unreachable for anyone outside LL), refusing to download it and leaving me with an old and non source-controlled llconvexdecomposition.h in packages/include/. As a result, llmeshrepository.cpp fails to compile because : - LLConvexDecomposition::getInstance()-setMeshData() should now take 2 arguments whereas the old class only declared one in its pure virtual method (ok that one is trivial to fix) - LLConvexDecomposition::getInstance()-buildSingleHull() is not declared or defined anywhere - Same for LLConvexDecomposition::getInstance()-getSingleHull(), not declared or defined anywhere I assume the latter two fail because these methods are neither declared in llconvexdecomposition.h nor defined in the lib I have, whereas they must be in the new ones. Is there a way to get the updated package please ? I will try to walk around the problem but sooner or later it will come back and bite me. FYI, this comes from the merge at rev 19901 (73b94c4e3f81) Thanks, Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1391 / Virus Database: 1518/3814 - Release Date: 08/05/11 ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1391 / Virus Database: 1518/3814 - Release Date: 08/05/11 ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http
Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer development 2.8.1 and a few new bugs
Thanks... That's not what I observe though, only the invisiprim goes black, obscuring the prims inside or behind it, but not the entire linkset On 12/07/2011, Ardy Lay ardy...@gmail.com wrote: Shining SH-2048 Invisiprims that are members of an attached linkset are making the entire linkset invisible. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SH-2048 ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Viewer development 2.8.1 and a few new bugs
Hi all, I was trying to adapt the RLV to the latest revision of viewer-development, and was quite satisfied with the results : - Far fewer crashes as opposed to 2.7.2 when the deferred renderer is activated - The /me issue in chat when the chat history is hidden is resolved too However, I am running into a few new issues, and I wonder if anyone spotted them too : - Invisiprims don't render well, they are completely black UNLESS they are set to fullbright (no matter whether deferred shading is on or off) - Alpha doesn't render well either, once again unless fullbright is on. Full strands of hair disappear, it's really ugly - The viewer slows down to a crawl when attaching or detaching objects (this is not a RLV bug, I've tested and observed this into the vanilla viewer too). Worse, if a second inventory window is visible but minimized, often it will bring it up ! - And the /me bug has now migrated to the chat history itself. It works on the chat floater, but if I say /me smiles, I'll see Marine KelleyMarine Kelley smiles on the history. This is NOT due to the Loading bug though, this one is completely different and new. Is any of these new bugs in a JIRA already ? I don't even know what or where to search... Any pointer is appreciated. Thanks, Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Question about DD philosophy.
I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that everytime you increase your draw distance, your viewer requests all the prims to rez from the sim... Which means a lot more network traffic if it changes all the time (which would be the case if it were automatic). Besides I like to keep control over my draw distance. I vote for keeping it manual. Marine On 16/06/2011, Lee ponzu lee.po...@gmail.com wrote: I have sometimes wondered why this is not more automagic, or maybe why the magic approach doesn't work well enough. Suppose my DD is set to 256. Upon detecting a poor FPS, the viewer could remember the DD, and then reduce it temporarily to 32. As FPS becomes acceptable, it increases it little by little until it is 256 again. Is there not code sort of like that already in there? (I know, I could go look, but I have fallen way behind on the source code and the builds, so all I do now is kvetch from the outside). A similar approach would be to slowly adjust the DD to keep FPS acceptable. It seems like these DD slider changes are exactly giving the user a manual way to do this. Why not just have the viewer do it? ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] More proposals for draw distance slider icon (Mike Chase)
How about a pair of round glasses in orthographic view, seen from a quarter profile ? Something like this (forgive the lack of alignment on non-fixed fonts) : / / O-O This icon is not used anywhere and has no special meaning, if you put them on you see better that if you remove them (if you're short-sighted that is), it would not be confused with search (as a magnifying glass or a pair of binoculars would) or the world map (as a globe would), and would be easy to draw in 16x16 because there is no filling to do, just thin strokes. Just my L$5 Marine On 15/06/2011, Opensource Obscure opensourceobsc...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 02:38, Carlo Wood ca...@alinoe.com wrote: On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 13:49:30 -0500 Daniel danielravenn...@gmail.com wrote: For the icon, label it DD for draw distance. That will fit in 16x16 pixels, and not conflict with other symbols. I like this idea. Made an icon for it: unclear. Opensource Obscure -- http://twitter.com/oobscure - http://opensourceobscure.com/lol discuss Second Life Viewer 2: http://j.mp/slv2group ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Debug console changes -- feedback sought
Whoops once again I replied to Jonathan only instead of the whole list. Sorry about that. Here is what I tried to answer : It should be copiable and pastable ! The debug console is nigh useless without these two features. On 11/06/2011, Jonathan Welch jhwe...@gmail.com wrote: If you use the debug console (Ctrl+Shift+4) I would like your feedback on some changes I would like to make to it: 1) Widen the lines from 50% of the screen width to 75% 2) Reduce the spacing between lines from 8px to 1px 3) Swap the foreground and background colors (I am not sure how effective this change would be, maybe it would be better to leave the colors as-is). Please take a look at https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-25987 and comment. Thank you, -Jonathan ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Debug console changes -- feedback sought
Guess we learn everyday. Thanks for that :) On 11/06/2011, Jonathan Welch jhwe...@gmail.com wrote: The debug setting showconsoleWindow gives you a free-standing window with the same information scrolling by in it. In Windows I get a dos-type window, so copying and pasting is not as easy as it should be. It should be copiable and pastable ! The debug console is nigh useless without these two features. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Fmod with Autobuild ?
Thank you WolfPup, it took me a while to actually understand where this JIRA was coming from, and where it was going... lots of info in there. I managed to finally compile with fmod, and to make the viewer run. For the people who still have issues with the whole process, here is what I did : - Downloaded fmodapi375win.zip from the fmod website. I actually did this 3 years ago but this zip is still up to date, and I'm glad it is :) - Zipped the contents of the fmodapi375win folder into fmodapi375win.tar.bz2 (7z can do that) - Placed fmodapi375win.tar.bz2 somewhere easily reachable (mine was in D:\SL) - Modified autobuild.xml : fmod windows url = file:///SL/fmodapi375win.tar.bz2 fmod windows hash = (the hash of this file that I calculated after zipping it) made sure that -DFMOD is set to TRUE - Ran autobuild, fmod was extracted correctly - Copied fmodapi375win.tar.bz2 into D:\SL\linden\ and extracted it there. I did this because otherwise fmod.h and fmod_errors.h wouldn't be found when trying to build llaudio (adding the path to fmod.h into the llaudio include paths works as well, but for some reason it still fails at the end of the build, so actually extracting to fmodapi375win/ is better and easier) - Built the viewer, had a failure with VivoxAUP.txt (never heard of this one, anybody ran into this ?) but secondlife-bin.exe was built - Copied app_settings/, character/, fonts/, skins/ and gpu_table.txt into the release/ folder as usual, tried to run the viewer but had a 0xc07b failure... it took some time to find out that some dlls had not been copied. So I copied libeay32.dll, ssleay32.dll, winmm.dll, zlib1.dll and maybe a couple more into release/, and miracle, it works. And I haz sound ! Marine On 29/04/2011, WolfPup Lowenhar wolfpu...@earthlink.net wrote: Actually STORM-1023 helped to solve this issue for OS Devs. Also my comment here https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1023?focusedCommentId=246855page=c om.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-2468 55 explains exactly what I had to do to make a 'local' package to use in the autobuild system. And then using a file:/// url pointing to the new package in the autobuild.xml along with the new hash that is generated I build the development viewer every day and also have sonde using fmod in a windows environment. -Original Message- From: opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com [mailto:opensource-dev- boun...@lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Marine Kelley Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 6:11 PM To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com Subject: [opensource-dev] Fmod with Autobuild ? Hello all, Yes, this is probably another stupid question... I have a working viewer 2.6.6 with all my patches installed, everything is working right. But since I had to run autobuild with the DINSTALL_PROPRIETARY flag set to FALSE (it wouldn't work otherwise), there is no Fmod, hence no sound. Is it possible for me to add a prebuilt Fmod library from another (maybe older) viewer to this one to get the sound back ? Or do I have to make autobuild download Fmod somehow in order to build the viewer with sound ? I cannot really release a viewer without sound... Thanks in advance, Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1325 / Virus Database: 1500/3603 - Release Date: 04/28/11 ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Fmod with Autobuild ?
Hello all, Yes, this is probably another stupid question... I have a working viewer 2.6.6 with all my patches installed, everything is working right. But since I had to run autobuild with the DINSTALL_PROPRIETARY flag set to FALSE (it wouldn't work otherwise), there is no Fmod, hence no sound. Is it possible for me to add a prebuilt Fmod library from another (maybe older) viewer to this one to get the sound back ? Or do I have to make autobuild download Fmod somehow in order to build the viewer with sound ? I cannot really release a viewer without sound... Thanks in advance, Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] autobuild with VS2005
Hello all, This is probably a silly question, but is it possible to use autobuild with VS2005 ? What used to work very well for me with VS2005+develop.py now fails miserably on VCExpress2010+autobuild. Does this question even make sense ? Or am I condemned to switch to VS2010 that I really disliked ? Here is what I have spent my Sunday on : - Tried to run autobuild as autobuild build -c Release, only to get an error saying that it does not find VS2010 (of course, it is not installed). I also had to tell it to not download all the proprietary libraries. - Replaced all occurrences of Visual Studio 10 in autobuild.xml by Visual Studio 8 2005 and ran autobuild again, it worked. - Built the solution under VS2005, and it failed miserably because it wanted some Microsoft library v1.45 that my system had only v1.30 of (I don't remember the full name right now but I remember that putting v1.30 would result in a ton of unresolved externals). The build itself took 15 minutes as it always does. - Tried to find these libraries everywhere and failed. - Downloaded VSExpress 2010, knowing very well that its use is limited in time. - Downloaded the source code again - Ran autobuild, failed (no generator named Visual Studio 10) - Upgraded the whole libraries and tools according to the wiki because I didn't notice that no, Cmake 2.6 was definitely not acknowledging VS2010. Cmake 2.8 was the right tool to use instead. - Ran autobuild, and it worked when using autobuild build -c VCExpressRelWithDebInfo (that's from memory). - Built the solution under VS2010... it took an hour before telling me that it couldn't find a specified file that it never bothered to tell me the name of. - Gave up and went to bed. I just remember now that secondlife-bin.exe had been generated, but I didn't think of trying it. Maybe the error can be ignored, I don't know. For me, VCExpress2010 is slower, bigger, limited in time and in features, and in any case is not suitable to do a task that VS2005 had no problem doing. All it managed to do so far was to waste my time. Now of course, VS2010 might be more powerful, and I am not arguing against it, it is just that for now I can't go anywhere with it anyway. Could a good soul show me how to make autobuild work with VS2005 please ? Thank you, Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] autobuild with VS2005
Thanks... this convinces me to go with VCE2010 (getting over the initial gripe I have about it, since it is the only sensible option I have to go ahead anyway). Right now it builds to the end, but it fails at the very last step with this error : 60 Looking for existing VisualStudio instance... 60Didn't find open solution, starting new background VisualStudio instance... 60Reading .sln file version... 60Using version: VC100... 60 Value cannot be null. 60 Parameter : type Seems to be vstool complaining that it cannot find the instance of VS when calling GetDTEAndSolution() in main.cs... although VCE is open. Autobuild does that too on the command line. What can I do to make it find VCE and modify the solution ? I'm thinking some path is missing from my PATH env variable but I can't figure out which. Thanks again On 18/04/2011, Ima Mechanique ima.mechani...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: Thank you all for the pointers. So if I get this right, VS2005 is to be left behind... not really kind to people who are used to it, and who find 2010 to be an unbearable bloatware that runs 4x slower than the old IDE. Not mentioning that with 2005, at least I could do something else while compiling. With this one, I can do something else... as long as it's away from my computer. Not so much that 2005 is being left behind, but that LL is moving forward. They cannot stay with the same environment when the Operating Systems are moving forward; for many reasons. How fast VC10 runs depends a LOT on your system and configuration. When I first used autobuild with it, it took the same time to build the viewer as 2005 had (approximately) However this turned out to be because I was not using some of the optimisations possible that 2005 had been using. With these enabled, it is now 35 minutes faster than 2005. Yes, it is a resource hog, but that's how it gets to be faster, you can change default values to prevent that if you want to, I make a cup of coffee and do something else ;-) Also, autobuild is designed to use the command line, not the IDE which is a great part of the resource eating. Intellisense is a pain in the ... RAM, disc I/O, etc. for example. As has been said already, autobuild started on the 2005 build, if you want to continue using it you will need to collect all the 2005 build versions of the libraries and create a configuration file that uses them instead of the default one which uses 2010 builds. If you are using the Express version of 2005 you will probably have to do more to get it to work. The initial version of autobuild was not express friendly. This is caused by many differences in how the full/express versions work. Start with the repo at https://bitbucket.org/oz_linden/viewer-autobuild/ That is the one started for 2005 builds, so should contain some if not all the library links I have no idea if those files are still available from the amazon servers though.Be aware it is considerably out of date with the main code base now, so you will have to import from viewer-development, being careful not to over write the autobuild.xml, best to rename it. And if I also get this right, VCexpressRelWithDebInfo is the only configuration that I should use, isn't it ? I am told to always use the OpenSource ones, except if I am on Windows (which is the case). Doesn't matter, I'll try both. IIRC the OpenSource* configurations are for full versions of VC only. They may work with a full version of 2005. VCexpressRelWithDebInfo is for VC10 Express versions. It uses commands not available on 2005, so probably will not work at all for you. -- Ima Mechanique ima.mechanique(at)blueyonder.co.uk ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] autobuild with VS2005
Aha ! Thanks much Ima, I'll play a little with a clone of your repository tomorrow, maybe it will lead me to a full working build this time :) On 18/04/2011, Ima Mechanique ima.mechani...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: Thanks... this convinces me to go with VCE2010 (getting over the initial gripe I have about it, since it is the only sensible option I have to go ahead anyway). Right now it builds to the end, but it fails at the very last step with this error : 60 Looking for existing VisualStudio instance... 60Didn't find open solution, starting new background VisualStudio instance... 60Reading .sln file version... 60Using version: VC100... 60 Value cannot be null. 60 Parameter : type Seems to be vstool complaining that it cannot find the instance of VS when calling GetDTEAndSolution() in main.cs... although VCE is open. Autobuild does that too on the command line. What can I do to make it find VCE and modify the solution ? I'm thinking some path is missing from my PATH env variable but I can't figure out which. I can't swear to it (I don't use the 'official' autobuild.xml), but as I recall, that is a known problem for express, that should be fixed with the OPEN-50 stuff that's coming soon ;-) VCE can't modify the solution this way, it doesn't have the API required for it. This is one of the many differences between Express and full versions. Thanks again On 18/04/2011, Ima Mechanique ima.mechani...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: Thank you all for the pointers. So if I get this right, VS2005 is to be left behind... not really kind to people who are used to it, and who find 2010 to be an unbearable bloatware that runs 4x slower than the old IDE. Not mentioning that with 2005, at least I could do something else while compiling. With this one, I can do something else... as long as it's away from my computer. Not so much that 2005 is being left behind, but that LL is moving forward. They cannot stay with the same environment when the Operating Systems are moving forward; for many reasons. How fast VC10 runs depends a LOT on your system and configuration. When I first used autobuild with it, it took the same time to build the viewer as 2005 had (approximately) However this turned out to be because I was not using some of the optimisations possible that 2005 had been using. With these enabled, it is now 35 minutes faster than 2005. Yes, it is a resource hog, but that's how it gets to be faster, you can change default values to prevent that if you want to, I make a cup of coffee and do something else ;-) Also, autobuild is designed to use the command line, not the IDE which is a great part of the resource eating. Intellisense is a pain in the ... RAM, disc I/O, etc. for example. As has been said already, autobuild started on the 2005 build, if you want to continue using it you will need to collect all the 2005 build versions of the libraries and create a configuration file that uses them instead of the default one which uses 2010 builds. If you are using the Express version of 2005 you will probably have to do more to get it to work. The initial version of autobuild was not express friendly. This is caused by many differences in how the full/express versions work. Start with the repo at https://bitbucket.org/oz_linden/viewer-autobuild/ That is the one started for 2005 builds, so should contain some if not all the library links I have no idea if those files are still available from the amazon servers though.Be aware it is considerably out of date with the main code base now, so you will have to import from viewer-development, being careful not to over write the autobuild.xml, best to rename it. And if I also get this right, VCexpressRelWithDebInfo is the only configuration that I should use, isn't it ? I am told to always use the OpenSource ones, except if I am on Windows (which is the case). Doesn't matter, I'll try both. IIRC the OpenSource* configurations are for full versions of VC only. They may work with a full version of 2005. VCexpressRelWithDebInfo is for VC10 Express versions. It uses commands not available on 2005, so probably will not work at all for you. -- Ima Mechanique ima.mechanique(at)blueyonder.co.uk ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges -- Ima Mechanique ima.mechanique(at)blueyonder.co.uk ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
Re: [opensource-dev] autobuild with VS2005
That did the trick ! I could run autobuild without a problem now, using your vstool.exe, it configured the solution and now I am making it build the viewer on VCE. I can't stay around to watch though, especially if it is going to take an hour. Going to bed now, and I'll keep you posted with my progress. Thanks again all of you, I was really stuck on this one ! Marine On 18/04/2011, Nicky Perian nickyper...@yahoo.com wrote: -DUNATTENDED:BOOL=ON I think this on the configure command line will solve the vstool.exe issue. If it doesn't make an empty project with the output of vstool.exe and replace the existiing one. Or, you can use the one I have here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7833186/VSTool.exe Nicky From: Marine Kelley marinekel...@gmail.com To: Ima Mechanique ima.mechani...@blueyonder.co.uk Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com Sent: Mon, April 18, 2011 2:59:27 PM Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] autobuild with VS2005 Aha ! Thanks much Ima, I'll play a little with a clone of your repository tomorrow, maybe it will lead me to a full working build this time :) On 18/04/2011, Ima Mechanique ima.mechani...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: Thanks... this convinces me to go with VCE2010 (getting over the initial gripe I have about it, since it is the only sensible option I have to go ahead anyway). Right now it builds to the end, but it fails at the very last step with this error : 60 Looking for existing VisualStudio instance... 60Didn't find open solution, starting new background VisualStudio instance... 60Reading .sln file version... 60Using version: VC100... 60 Value cannot be null. 60 Parameter : type Seems to be vstool complaining that it cannot find the instance of VS when calling GetDTEAndSolution() in main.cs... although VCE is open. Autobuild does that too on the command line. What can I do to make it find VCE and modify the solution ? I'm thinking some path is missing from my PATH env variable but I can't figure out which. I can't swear to it (I don't use the 'official' autobuild.xml), but as I recall, that is a known problem for express, that should be fixed with the OPEN-50 stuff that's coming soon ;-) VCE can't modify the solution this way, it doesn't have the API required for it. This is one of the many differences between Express and full versions. Thanks again On 18/04/2011, Ima Mechanique ima.mechani...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: Thank you all for the pointers. So if I get this right, VS2005 is to be left behind... not really kind to people who are used to it, and who find 2010 to be an unbearable bloatware that runs 4x slower than the old IDE. Not mentioning that with 2005, at least I could do something else while compiling. With this one, I can do something else... as long as it's away from my computer. Not so much that 2005 is being left behind, but that LL is moving forward. They cannot stay with the same environment when the Operating Systems are moving forward; for many reasons. How fast VC10 runs depends a LOT on your system and configuration. When I first used autobuild with it, it took the same time to build the viewer as 2005 had (approximately) However this turned out to be because I was not using some of the optimisations possible that 2005 had been using. With these enabled, it is now 35 minutes faster than 2005. Yes, it is a resource hog, but that's how it gets to be faster, you can change default values to prevent that if you want to, I make a cup of coffee and do something else ;-) Also, autobuild is designed to use the command line, not the IDE which is a great part of the resource eating. Intellisense is a pain in the ... RAM, disc I/O, etc. for example. As has been said already, autobuild started on the 2005 build, if you want to continue using it you will need to collect all the 2005 build versions of the libraries and create a configuration file that uses them instead of the default one which uses 2010 builds. If you are using the Express version of 2005 you will probably have to do more to get it to work. The initial version of autobuild was not express friendly. This is caused by many differences in how the full/express versions work. Start with the repo at https://bitbucket.org/oz_linden/viewer-autobuild/ That is the one started for 2005 builds, so should contain some if not all the library links I have no idea if those files are still available from the amazon servers though.Be aware it is considerably out of date with the main code base now, so you will have to import from viewer-development, being careful not to over write the autobuild.xml, best to rename it. And if I also get this right, VCexpressRelWithDebInfo is the only configuration that I should use, isn't it ? I am told to always use the OpenSource ones, except if I am on Windows (which is the case). Doesn't matter
Re: [opensource-dev] VWR-8208 Searchable Debug Settings
What I do is open my settings.xml file and search what I want with a text editor, it works. On 02/01/2011, Ricky kf6...@gmail.com wrote: I was just about to create a JIRA entry for the idea of making things easier to find in the Debug Settings menu, when I found an existant JIRA on the subject. VWR-8208 find instead of auto-complete for Debug Settings https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8208 It would be great to have some attention paid to this concept, as it should be fairly trivial to implement, and would make working with those entries a lot easier. Just making some noise about one of my annoyances... Ricky Cron Stardust ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] VWR-8208 Searchable Debug Settings
Yes that would be great, because the debug settings are not in any particular order in settings.xml, while they are in alphabetical order in the viewer. Sometimes it can be confusing (especially when you browse all the Render* debug settings, they are all over the place). On 02/01/2011, Ricky kf6...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you Jonathan and Marine. These workarounds are good, and I will tap into them. Hopefully an in-client solution isn't too far into the future! :) Ricky On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 1:52 PM, Marine Kelley marinekel...@gmail.com wrote: What I do is open my settings.xml file and search what I want with a text editor, it works. On 02/01/2011, Ricky kf6...@gmail.com wrote: I was just about to create a JIRA entry for the idea of making things easier to find in the Debug Settings menu, when I found an existant JIRA on the subject. VWR-8208 find instead of auto-complete for Debug Settings https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8208 It would be great to have some attention paid to this concept, as it should be fairly trivial to implement, and would make working with those entries a lot easier. Just making some noise about one of my annoyances... Ricky Cron Stardust ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Does writing to llerrs make the viewer crash ?
Hello all, I have just filed a JIRA (VWR-23459) about a random crash that would occur in the rendering pipeline, when suddenly it struck me : I remember that years ago the viewer would crash when writing to llerrs, and that it was voluntary (don't ask me why). Is it still the case ? In this JIRA, the fix I provide merely removes the write to llerrs, and returns without going any further into the method. I did not have time to give it more attention, it was more of a dirty hack to be able to keep from crashing every 15 minutes while my friends were waiting for me. Thanks and happy new year to all of you ! Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Does writing to llerrs make the viewer crash ?
Ah yes that's what I remembered. I didn't think it was still the case in v2. Thanks. On 31/12/2010, Zabb65 zab...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, llerrs purposefully dereferences a null pointer to cause a crash, and if that fails it infinitely loops. This is so errors get fixed instead of being ignored. On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 05:42, Marine Kelley marinekel...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, I have just filed a JIRA (VWR-23459) about a random crash that would occur in the rendering pipeline, when suddenly it struck me : I remember that years ago the viewer would crash when writing to llerrs, and that it was voluntary (don't ask me why). Is it still the case ? In this JIRA, the fix I provide merely removes the write to llerrs, and returns without going any further into the method. I did not have time to give it more attention, it was more of a dirty hack to be able to keep from crashing every 15 minutes while my friends were waiting for me. Thanks and happy new year to all of you ! Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Does writing to llerrs make the viewer crash ?
Hehe well there were two ways of writing the name of the JIRA entry : the right way, and the Marine way. Guess which one I chose. Thanks Sheet :) On 31/12/2010, Sheet Spotter sheet.spot...@gmail.com wrote: The random crash reported by Marine was VWR-24359. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-24359 (There was a typo in the original post; two digits were transposed.) Sheet Spotter -Original Message- From: opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com [mailto:opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Marine Kelley Sent: December 31, 2010 4:43 AM To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com Subject: [opensource-dev] Does writing to llerrs make the viewer crash ? [...] I have just filed a JIRA (VWR-23459) about a random crash that would occur in the rendering pipeline [...] ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Request for feedback - Preferences Cleanup
Thank you Esbee for sharing it with us ! I have two remarks/wishes : 1 : Can we have our regular text chat logs back please ? Not replacing the new llsd ones, but just feeding TWO chat logs and TWO IM logs (per avatar) at the same time ? That would greatly help those who like to skim through text logs without having to wait for an hypothetical tool in the viewer (besides we don't always skim our logs while online anyway). Perhaps an option in the prefs to turn this dual logging on/off would be good for those who are concerned about disk usage. 2 : Can we have the Block list and Block button renamed back to Mute list and Mute button please ? I don't see the reason behind this change from 1.23 to 2.0 and now it is hard to explain how to unblock/unmute someone depending on the viewer the person I am talking to is using. There was nothing wrong with the mute word, was there ? Thank you ! Marine On 4 November 2010 19:13, Sarah (Esbee) Kuehnle es...@lindenlab.com wrote: Hi all, Attached is the design work for the clean-up of the preferences floater that the Snowstorm Team hopes to implement in Sprint 7. If you'd like to review and send any questions, comments, or general feedback, I'll take that and integrate back into the design. I'd like to get as much feedback as I can before the end of the day Friday, so I can make any necessary revisions and get it to the team ready to for work on Monday. In the meantime, I'll post updates as I have them! Thanks! Best, Esbee ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] inventory dealberaker
On 30 September 2010 09:42, Erin Mallory angel_of_crim...@hotmail.comwrote: IF i am using v2, and i crash with unanswered inventory offers I expect the viewer to automatically accept them. someone on the list said the system does, but EVERY time i crahs and i ahd inventory offers from an object they have disapeared. this is unacceptable. especially since viewer two does NOT log what objects give you what. I have lost probably close to $500 usd worth of items from this and its jirad by other people some of which lsot even more then I have and this still isnt fixed. this NEEDS to be made a priority. Automatically accept inventory offers... maybe. It could open ways to griefing though. But what is unacceptable is that declined inventory is deleted, it does not go to the trash folder anymore. Even when sent from another user. When I'm in Busy mode I don't want anything that is sent to me now to be lost, I just don't want it in my face for the moment. But I review everything later when I have time. I think that a new Declined Inventory system folder could be a good compromise, it would be like a second Trash or Lost And Found that you can review and empty at will. It's not hard to do and I'm pretty sure it is a viewer-only change. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request
On 28 September 2010 11:20, Ann Otoole missannoto...@yahoo.com wrote: this isn't the place for that and LL needs to weigh in on things like this. It isn't the only one and one person LL openly promotes also sells over scripted shoes. If we are going after one we have to go after the ones LL promotes as well. Better for LL to step up first. I think I know who you are talking about, Ann. I remember having sent a very detailed notecard with script time, snapshots and explanations, proving that the lag came from their shoes and that they really should do something to lighten the load on the sims. One resizer and texturer script per prim on a 250-prim shoe (and you got two feet), some of the prims never even showing because you have to actually buy an option to see them, is unacceptable. No response from them whatsoever, and no change in their products. My message totally fell in deaf ears. So I gave up on them and went to the competition, who does listen to their customers. And I made a point in telling everyone I know to do the same. End of story. I just wish everyone was aware of how much resources they take, and that means having the right tools for it. The upcoming script limits project were aimed at doing that, but I guess it is suspended for the moment. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] 2.0 Absolute Dealbreaker - script count feature request
Could be... I have not set foot there for almost a year now. lol On 28 September 2010 12:44, Lance Corrimal lance.corri...@eregion.dewrote: Am Dienstag, 28. September 2010, 11:27:22 schrieb Marine Kelley: On 28 September 2010 11:20, Ann Otoole missannoto...@yahoo.com wrote: this isn't the place for that and LL needs to weigh in on things like this. It isn't the only one and one person LL openly promotes also sells over scripted shoes. If we are going after one we have to go after the ones LL promotes as well. Better for LL to step up first. I think I know who you are talking about, Ann. I remember having sent a very detailed notecard with script time, snapshots and explanations, proving that the lag came from their shoes and that they really should do something to lighten the load on the sims. One resizer and texturer script per prim on a 250-prim shoe (and you got two feet), some of the prims never even showing because you have to actually buy an option to see them, is unacceptable. No response from them whatsoever, and no change in their products. My message totally fell in deaf ears. So I gave up on them and went to the competition, who does listen to their customers. And I made a point in telling everyone I know to do the same. End of story. could that by any chance be one of the reasons why that shop strictly refuses to make demo versions available... so that people could check the script load on those shoes before they buy? bye, LC ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm changes
Best wishes Tofu and Aimee, if you survived LL you can survive anything. So you'll be ok ! It's sad to see two good devs leave though. On 28 September 2010 21:45, Erin Mallory angel_of_crim...@hotmail.comwrote: They aren't leaving by choice. LL fired all the UK based lindens. I won't go into saying how stupid a decision it was. But I do wish tofu and Aimee the best of luck, and I hope they find really good jobs soon. Take care Aimee and Tofu, godspeed, and please feel free to friend one or more of my alts so you can stay in touch :) cummere mayo -- Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:31:35 -0600 From: moriz.gu...@gmail.com To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm changes What surprises me is that 'people who made much of the success possible' are 'leaving'? Is this a pattern? I really cannot imagine the kind of pressure you LLs are working under, I mean what kind of workplace is LL?? R On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Ponzu lee.po...@gmail.com wrote: Best wishes to Tofu and Aimee for the future. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges -- 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.' *Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, *Research Associate Professor*, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-282-5333 Blog http://deepsemaphore.posterous.com/, LinkedInhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/rameshramloll , Play2Train http://www.play2train.org ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-DevPlease read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] RLV or ACSE (Was Re: Mesh?)
On 25 September 2010 19:59, Robert Exile In Paradise Murphey ex...@weylan-yutani.com wrote: Sum up: RLV makes LL-viewer-compatible virtual worlds much, much more usable for community game development by giving the region owners control over default viewer features that hurt many parts of intended roleplay or combat. I couldn't agree with you more there. It is really nothing more than an interface to allow scripts to act on the viewer in many different ways, and none of them has to be kinky. The stargates are a good example of it, and they have been around for a while. And as you pointed out, combat sims would really benefit from the added realism that the RLV restrictions bring, too. There are viewers here that integrate the RLV to actually provide more accessibility to SL to disabled people ! The protocol is simple enough and if the Lindens are interested in integrating it (or a part of it) into the standard viewer I would be more than happy to explain how it works. As long as the RLV stays incapable of doing things that scripts can do (otherwise this platform would compete against the very scripts it is supposed to serve), it would be a nice addition to the viewer. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Mesh?
On 26 September 2010 00:05, Robert Martin robertl...@gmail.com wrote: actually if the RLV api was renamed and expanded a bit it could be used as a semi-autonomous bot api Yes, there are bots that let you dress and undress them through script, using that API. They are used by clothes merchants to demo some of their outfits to the customers. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Frustum on the world map acting up on v2
Hello all, For those who are interested, here is a trivial fix (but not a trivial hunt) to a bug on the world map, that I am surprised nobody has ever written a JIRA on, because it has been there since v2.0 beta. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23105 Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?
Brandon I am sooo waiting for your patch impatiently ! On 17 September 2010 21:38, Brandon Husbands xot...@gmail.com wrote: I am actually about finished with my mod for v2. It takes the sidebar.cpp file and only that file leaves all public method calls in. But its rewritten to be a floater manager where if you want to call say profile it launches it as a floater. Thus restoring 1x functionality. All thats left to do is add the buttons back for them and menu choices. And there was much rejoicing.. Ill be submitting a patch soon. If its not wanted thats fine but it allows me to use viewer 2. and is easy to merge as the file is really the only file changed. On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) o...@lindenlab.com wrote: On 2010-09-17 13:49, Brandon Husbands wrote: It was a serious question. I wanted to know if LL did it or a 3rd party contractor. not a insult. It doesn't matter... it's there, and we're going to have to deal with it (as in the recent changes to make panels detachable). ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges -- --- This email is a private and confidential communication. Any use of email may be subject to the laws and regulations of the United States. You may not Repost, Distribute nor reproduce any content of this message. --- --- ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?
On 17 September 2010 23:02, Zi Ree tinacl...@gmx.de wrote: Am Freitag 17 September 2010 22:51:38 schrieb Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence): Thus restoring 1x functionality. All thats left to do is add the buttons back for them and menu choices. From an end user point of view, how does that differ from the current Development viewer functionality if the user has torn all the panels off as separate windows? I really really hope the difference is the ability to open as many profile and property floaters as we want, and not being limited to a single instance. Does the current Development viewer do that? Yes the very point of being able to tear off some tabs is to be able to actually copy them, and to switch to another tab in order to do some drag-and-drop like in 1.x. Tearing one tab just to tear it and not have it in the sidebar is rather pointless, if you ask me. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Code Review Request: VWR-21253 (Permissions icons in the friends list)
On 6 September 2010 22:23, Boroondas Gupte slli...@boroon.dasgupta.chwrote: I guess you refer to the screenshot attached to the jira issue? Note the date when that one was added, Oct. 15, 20*09*. Also note the artwork and color scheme. I guess that was from an early development version of Viewer 2 that already had the people sidebar tab but also still had the old code of the contacts panel, so that both could be compared within a single application. (That, or it's a mock-up.) Yes that's what I suspected, but there was a chance that the old code would still be there and activated with a secret voodoo gesture. PS: why are you CCing to snowst...@lists.lindenlab.com? That list doesn't seem to exist. I replied to all as I always do, without bothering to what list I was actually sending. lol ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers...
At least the land and inventory are not gone, automatically downgrading to basic would make the lands be abandoned... way to even more drama. To me the user should not even be locked out of the grid, but I understand that there are technical difficulties to making a premium be considered as basic until the funds are available again, and let's not forget that if you are premium and in this situation, then you do owe LL money. This is different than being simply basic. The only issue is that the user is ALSO locked out of their SL webpage. To me that makes no sense at all, because that's how they could access tickets and get some help, or downgrade to basic, or change credit card info (what if the original credit card has been stolen and the user blocked it ? That's not valid grounds to lock them out of SL and yet they can't change their credit card info through the SL webpage anymore). Locking them out of the SL website simply discourages them from even trying to sort things out, and LL loses money in the process. On 29 August 2010 11:09, Latif Khalifa lati...@streamgrid.net wrote: It's still far safer not to have a premium account. You don't run a risk than when your premium subscription expires and your payment info is not up to date that your account will get suspended. You get locked out of you account, with a message call 1-xxx-xxx-. This was not very helpful for a friend of mine from Croatia who is deaf and could not use a phone. My attempt to mediate and help sort out issues failed because LL told me we do not disclose information about other people's accounts. Faced with a double wall like that, she just gave up on SL after being a premium member for over 3 years. Why LL doesn't simply downgrade accounts to basic instead of locking them out is beyond me. Because of this policy I recommend to my friends not to upgrade their accounts to premium, because they risk losing their accounts, and nobody would be able to help them if they themselves don't have the ability to communicate in English and over the phone. On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 6:08 AM, Yoz Grahame y...@lindenlab.com wrote: This *was* a serious bug, but fixed over a year ago. Now a premium account in default is merely suspended with the ability to fully restore on payment. On 28 August 2010 10:19, Gareth Nelson gar...@garethnelson.com wrote: That's a serious bug in LL's business model - your account is safer as a basic, since a premium account that quits paying means the account is deleted (rather than merely downgraded). On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 5:35 PM, Tigro Spottystripes tigrospottystri...@gmail.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 btw, if you're considering changing your account from premium to basic, be sure to pay any money you own to LL and then downgrade your account thru the site, do not just stop paying, if you stop paying them while still being a premium they will wipe out all your account's data, inventory L$ balance etc (i've seen some people that had the misconception that to downgrade all you had to do was stop sending money to LL, the ones that didn't got set straight in time lost everything) On 28/8/2010 13:01, mysticaldem...@xrgrid.com wrote: I don’t think anyone disagrees with. The problem is you can’t get a homestead unless you have a full sim already and so you need to rent from someone and this puts you dependent on someone else which is frustrating for people. So to log in one day and see all your hard work returned to your lost and found isn’t a pleasant experience and seems SL if they are serious about the user experience would have some better ways to handle this. I don’t know if you rent from someone else if you can do a restore of your region to the new location. But seems like there are ways to make this better if not just let people rent homesteads which to me I believe would be a huge market. Anyway this whole subject is off topic for this mailing list and probably should be on the SL forums. M. *From:* opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com [mailto:opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] *On Behalf Of *Joel Foner *Sent:* Saturday, August 28, 2010 11:49 AM *To:* Aleric Inglewood *Cc:* opensource-dev *Subject:* Re: [opensource-dev] This is how Linden Lab treats it's customers... After being a paying customer for more than a year, renting a homestead, and thus paying Linden Lab ~ USD$ 1000 or so ... they just take the sim offline, with no opening to even discuss the matter. Why? Because of something I did? No. The reason is that Linden Lab isn't interested in the little people. Unless you have a FULL sim of USD$ 300 per month, you
Re: [opensource-dev] Anti-Aliasing
Actually it works, but I believe the RenderUseFBO and RenderDeferred debug settings must be set right (both FALSE), before seeing some antialiasing. I'm not really sure how I did it but I did see some AA on the latest 2.x viewers. On 27 August 2010 08:35, Kadah Coba kadah.c...@gmail.com wrote: Yeah, me too. AA is buggy in 2, but its not working at all now. On 8/26/2010 6:06 PM, Trilo Byte wrote: Is it just me, or is anti-aliasing broken in the last couple builds? 2.1.2 (208569) and 2.1.2 (208581) https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-20969 TriloByte Zanzibar ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Removal of the MultipleAttachments debug settings ?
I understand, it makes sense, thanks for your reply Nyx. I did see the Add option on 2.1.0 along with MultipleAttachments there too so I assumed both were needed for some reason (this debug setting was used in a few places in the code). On 26 August 2010 22:43, Nyx Linden n...@lindenlab.com wrote: Correct, that is what most people will do, and that's why we wanted to keep the behavior of double click / wear to be consistent with how the functionality worked in 1.23.X, as that's what most people are used to those functions doing. Since multi-wearables is a new feature, using the new functionality warranted using a new right click menu option. We'd like to keep things consistent for old users and offer new functionality for those who would like to take advantage of it. Its a fairly simple implementation for the UI for controlling multiwearables, however, so if you have suggestions for better ways of exposing the functionality, please do let us know! -Nyx Trilo Byte wrote: My mistake, then. When I performed the same action to wear an item as I had in previous builds and got the unexpected/unwanted result, and saw that the debug option was gone, I thought it had broken (like anti-aliasing did in the latest build). When this viewer gets released. it would be helpful if this change in behavior was blogged and documented. I think it makes a lot of sense, but double-clicking on an item or right-clicking and choosing 'wear' is what I imagine most people would do. Trilo On Aug 26, 2010, at 1:24 PM, Nyx Linden wrote: MultipleAttachments was a debug setting we were using for testing multi-attachments internally because we didn't have sufficient UI for specifying what happened when you went to wear an item on your avatar. To be clear, the setting MultipleAttachments affected the wear option for attachments as follows: FALSE: When set to false, any time you wear an attachment, it would replace all attachments at that point. If you're wearing three things on your head, and you wear something on your head, all three will be replaced with the new attachment. Result: you're wearing a single attachment on your head. TRUE: When set to true, any time you wear an attachment, it would ignore whatever attachments were at that point and add the attachment onto that point. For example, if you're wearing three attachments on your head and you wear something new, you will end up with four things on your head. We've removed the debug setting as we've implemented this functionality directly in the user interface, making the debug setting completely unnecessary. With the latest code if you wear an attachment on your head, it will act as if MultipleAttachments was set to FALSE - it will replace everything else on your head. We have a new option in the UI which we've labeled add - which will act as if MultipleAttachments is TRUE - that is it will add the attachment to the attachment point, without removing the existing attachments. With both of these options being available through the UI, there is no need for the debug option anymore. If you don't want to use multi-attachments, all you need to do is make sure you use the wear option instead of the add option. If this is not working as I've described, then let us know as we have some bugs to fix :) Let me know if this clarifies things. -Nyx Marine Kelley wrote: Hello all, I am currently working at integrating the RLV code into the latest 2.1.2 viewer in viewer-development. Some users might have noticed that the MultipleAttachments debug setting was set to FALSE by default in order to stay compatible with 1.x, because 1.x users cannot see attachments worn on slots 1 and beyond, only slot 0 is rendered. So the feature is still rather useless because since most of the users are still using 1.x, multiple attachments are to be avoided. However having the option to choose whether to activate it or not was a good idea. I even added a checkbox in the navbar to set it to TRUE or FALSE in one click without having to open the debug settings (but that version is not released). And now what I'm seeing in the latest version worries me. The MultipleAttachments debug setting is gone ! The viewer behaves as if it were always TRUE. On the paper it makes sense, since 2.x is supposed to handle multiple attachments natively and the sims have been updated to 1.40 (and now 1.42) almost only for this reason. But... this is actually counter-productive because now someone who tries 2.1 will soon discover that most of their attachments are not showing to their friends. And that they require more steps to change an outfit than before, because they now have to explicitely remove attachments before wearing new ones. For a viewer that has a lot of difficulties being adopted by the user base, isn't this move
Re: [opensource-dev] Removal of the MultipleAttachments debug settings ?
I'd like to chime in and say that this happens to me often as well. Attachments are worn twice on relog, approx. once a day. Since the attachments I'm wearing usually say things with llOwnerSay and I see them say their messages twice, I do know this is not only a viewer-side problem. I have never observed this with 1.23, only with 2.1. Soft is aware of this issue, and confirmed seeing the double-rezzing in the logs of my sim at the time I indicated. On 26 August 2010 22:30, Altair Sythos syt...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 16:24:08 -0400 Nyx Linden n...@lindenlab.com wrote: Let me know if this clarifies things. yeah i'm on Second Life 2.1.2 (208569) Aug 26 2010 05:22:24 (Second Life Development) now, it work as you said, just noticed something weird and tryiong to reproduce: if i crash when relog all attachments are weared double time, like the dirty logoff don't detach items. I dunno how logoff/login work, i *SUPPOSE* debug warn during logoff acvatar destructor take current outfit and store somewhere on asset, during login last saved current outfit is worn. maybe is better if saved current outfit replace what worn during login, so if crashed nothing boudle is worn... somebody who know better and deeper the code can hint me about? ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Naive question about Bitbucket
Hello all, Pardon my naive question, but this is the first time I use TortoiseHg, and I'm having weird results here. My Cygwin is too old to update via cygwin-setup, I have to reinstall it completely, and I don't want to do that. So I'm falling back to TortoiseHg instead. And here is my problem : I clone https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/viewer-development and everything works fine, I can run develop.py, build and test, then patch, rebuild and retest, everything is smooth like a dream. But when I look at the changeset on the webpage of this project, none of the changes are included into what I have downloaded. Sure it works, but I don't have the latest additions. Naive me thought that whatever is listed on that page is available in the sources... am I wrong ? If not, are these changes public ? Thanks, Noob^WMarine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Naive question about Bitbucket
Aha ! That was it. Actually one has to Clone with TortoiseHg, and then to right click on the folder and choose TortoiseHg Update, and choose what changeset to apply. I'll look into the options so that it applies all the changes upon cloning, I don't feel like doing this one change at a time. Thanks ! On 25 August 2010 19:12, Brian McGroarty s...@lindenlab.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 10:01 AM, Marine Kelley marinekel...@gmail.comwrote: Hello all, Pardon my naive question, but this is the first time I use TortoiseHg, and I'm having weird results here. My Cygwin is too old to update via cygwin-setup, I have to reinstall it completely, and I don't want to do that. So I'm falling back to TortoiseHg instead. And here is my problem : I clone https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/viewer-development and everything works fine, I can run develop.py, build and test, then patch, rebuild and retest, everything is smooth like a dream. But when I look at the changeset on the webpage of this project, none of the changes are included into what I have downloaded. Sure it works, but I don't have the latest additions. Naive me thought that whatever is listed on that page is available in the sources... am I wrong ? If not, are these changes public ? I don't know about TortoiseHg specifically - but it sounds like you might be pulling, but not updating. pull downloads changes but doesn't apply them to your tree - they only sit in a database. update updates your tree. If this is the case, there's probably a checkbox that allows it to automatically update each time it pulls. -- Brian McGroarty | Linden Lab Sent from my Newton MP2100 via acoustic coupler ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Draw Distance
Please be careful not to screw up debug settings that must NOT be changed. Some are capital for the viewer to function normally, and would completely shut out users who don't know how to change them back offline, and to what. It would be easy to make a gesture that completely messes up your debug settings and to distribute it. I'd like to point out that the RLV has been controlling all the windlight settings and a couple debug settings for two years now, through scripts, and it works well. I took the whitelist approach to the debug settings precisely for the reason I explained above, and it can't modify anything else so the user is safe. Marine On 22 August 2010 16:38, Morgaine morgaine.din...@googlemail.com wrote: On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 7:01 AM, leliel leliel.mir...@gmail.com wrote: /set debugvar value +1 lelie This symmetrical handling for all parameters is far superior to defining abbreviations for each one, and it is inherently extensible as the set of parameters grows. I support this. Morgaine. On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 7:01 AM, leliel leliel.mir...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 9:36 PM, Miro Collas miro.col...@gmail.comwrote: How about bbeing able to just type it in? Why a slider, or mouse wheel, which is inaccurate? How about being able to type it in chat? Instead of a one off thing just for the draw distance, I'd rather we had a general command input system similar to the console on id's games. So since we use /# for the channel and /me for emotes how about /set for setting debug variables with the following syntax. /set debugvar value Where value is one of bool, integer, float, or a vector using the lsl style of 0.0, 0.0, 0.0. With tab line completion of course. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Display names, again.
The damage done to the reputation of a well known resident can be immeasurable. It would be irresponsible of LL to let someone impersonate someone else without giving any way to let the other people around to see CLEARLY the difference between a user name and a display name. No amount of ToS waving and legal threatening is going to change that because once the damage is done, it is too late. It is CAPITAL that a display name CANNOT be mistaken with a user name, no matter how clever the owner of the display name is. On 20 August 2010 12:03, Stickman stick...@gmail.com wrote: I am talking about someone creating any random throwaway user account, then setting their DISPLAY NAME to Stickman Ingman, trusting that enough people are stupid enough not to look at the real username and compare it with yours. Yep. I believe this is totally possible for people to do. The FAQs says it's against TOS to do so for the sake of impersonating someone else. But as far as I know there is no technical limitation preventing someone from doing so. I'm willing to accept the possibility of troubles it will bring because of the freedom it offers in exchange. If you aren't, you'll have to make some pretty compelling arguments that convinces LL that the freedom isn't worth it, or can be preserved through some other method. Convincing me doesn't need to be on your todo list. As a side note, I see where you're coming from. In another world, one with a higher density of matchstick men, I'd agree with you. I think LL would, too. Stickman ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Display names, again.
That's not my job, I am a customer in LL's standpoint, I don't work for them. I already talked about possible ways to distinguish a display name from a user name, for example by putting the display name into brackets in chatlogs and offline IMs (which are plain text and html respectively), while using a different color than for user names on the chat and IM while in world (which is comparable to rich text)/ There are just plenty of ways. What I insist on is that the information this name is a display name must come from the server, not from the sending viewer. That's the important part. On 20 August 2010 12:24, Stickman stick...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 3:15 AM, Marine Kelley marinekel...@gmail.com wrote: damage is done, it is too late. It is CAPITAL that a display name CANNOT be mistaken with a user name, no matter how clever the owner of the display name is. You make a good argument. How about a solution? Changing color is one. Might be easy enough. I don't know if LL would accept it. Changing another property of the name, be it font, size, position, etc, may be another solution. Font probably not. Feel free to come up with other solutions on how to avoid mistaking a display name with a username. I believe LL's purpose is to make display names seamless. So it needs to be as unobtrusive as possible. It also needs to be as simple to implement as possible. The easier the solution, the more likely LL can just drop it in and test it without losing time. Good luck! Stickman ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Open Viewer Development Announcement
That would be awesome. I know there are reasons behind the removal of the pie menu and its replacement by a well known list menu, but PLEASE I am so much more productive and less frustrated with the old pie menu ! Muscle memory and size of the clickable areas and all that. Simply put with the list menu I have to look where I'm clicking, with the pie menu I don't. It is a huge gain of time. On 19 August 2010 19:24, Kadah kadah.c...@gmail.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 8/19/2010 10:16 AM, Henri Beauchamp wrote: A smarter approach would be to automatically move the cursor itself to the center of the pie menu (without moving the latter to avoid an annoying drifting effect) when you click on a sub-menu. However, I never found the fact that the pie menu was not centered on the cursor after a click on a sub-menu item to be an hinderance, since the whole idea about pie menus is that you quickly get your muscle memory trained and don't even have to look at the menu any more after you are trained. For example, my muscles know that to delete an in-world object I must right click on it, then move south, left click (for More ), and move north east and left click again (for Delete). With the new method, I'd simply have to replace north east with east in my muscle memory (which would make me miss quite a number of clicks at first, since this memory has been trained and used for almost 4 years now, so if you reimplement pie-menus in this new way, I'd appreciate a debug option to prevent the auto-recentering of the cursor)... Same here. I would impliment pie menus as 2 debug settings, UseLegacyPieMenus and LegacyPieMenusDisableAutoCenter. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJMbWjDAAoJEIdLfPRu7qE2mucIAIViouN+zGtQJRqsZGdVqK7Z 6j3tIhepm0TTcVaMuBrqijuw0CFifMJwxV8T0uy0U8xEYbPzIyRqJCDsvHGhOUQw WN8PmGhnDKyOOQYSHEKGYEmTFvVlwqQ40SfH5hM3jMNF2zj/w/qPxl2pV2SMON9e 0sl8ew1Hu+DBM1u/+DJDe2dM1Jz3x1EnpjAJUFwLQ7MgZL4JuT4vD96y/Sl6s2eL LZeJieUi6fxW2dXDWABfBcIqyFpRx0Vh78XqC+ZyOn66RcGr3D9Yra8w+rCqLMc0 6owg9RHkzBZXsIpsG1DtZI+ytH0awLuXVv5zz4sGXIi9scQD64UCXxFf2xjdT08= =Iy9d -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?
Well it must be obvious for any user that anyone they see or hear or receive an IM from is using either a user name or a display name. And by obvious I mean validated by the server during the transaction, not forged by another viewer which can pretend to use any user name. In other words, any token of information (visual or textual) is signed with the user name of the agent, and that signature is generated server side. Security must always be server side anyway. The way the receiving viewer interprets those signatures is not important. It could simply enclose a display name into brackets, for instance, or display it in green, or add this is a display name after it, or whatever. But the viewer must have a way to clearly distinguish the two names, and to clearly relay the information to the user. On 19 August 2010 21:55, Michael Schlenker schl...@uni-oldenburg.de wrote: Am 19.08.2010 um 21:30 schrieb Daniel Smith: On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Michael Schlenker schl...@uni-oldenburg.de wrote: How about a display option in the viewer that can 'highlight' the fact that your display name is the same as your username (different colour, font or an other UI hint). That would prevent many of the imposter issues, as it would be pretty obvious. Maybe an opt-out to deny the use of current usernames as display names would be appropriate, but a general ban to reuse a current username as a display name sounds a bit excessive. The default situation should be I have taken a moment to think about the implications of others using my username, and I trust them, and I am fine with that, so I will make the decision to turn it on. I still have not heard a definitive answer as to what gets logged in IM and Chat. Forget the display for a moment. What do you want to have logged as Michael Schlenker that you did not write? Well 'Michael Schlenker' is common enough that i regularly have issues with the name (and even more so initials) being taken already and even getting emails and stuff because of that. So i do not worry about things getting logged with my name, as i know it happens, and does not create huge troubles, unless some malicious person actively exploits it (or some agency is incompetent like the social registry in germany which messed up my records with the ones of my twin for years). But you look from the wrong direction and construct unrealistic scenarios. 1. If you log things, use the UUID internally, store the display name with it (as it can change) and make it just a display option what is shown, ever other way to implement logging is simply wrong 2. For the UI either make an option so display names that match the legacy username of the AV are highlighted or the opposite, to provide an easy non script based option to verify a legacy username users identity via name alone. 3. Provide an explicit opt-out for those that are seriously worried (typically shop owners, or other 'public figures'). That would pretty much match the typical regulations in RL, at least in germany (don't know enough about US or other law). The fact that your current username is unique is just a coincidence of the LL decision to use that username as a key in their database. Its not a natural law to have a unique name. Michael ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Open Viewer Development Announcement
Suggestions: - make notifications (inventory offers, group notices) stay on screen like they used to be I'm sure there is a debug setting or an XML option to do that, I'll look when I have time. But they would pile up pretty quickly, unlike 1.x the notification do not hide each other (which is good) but stack up to the top of the screen, cluttering it rather quickly when you're in group chat. My own biggest gripe about the notification system is silly but very annoying : when you receive an object or a notecard you get a Keep/Discard/Block window, then once you click Keep you get another notification telling you you've accepted the offer. Not only this notification is rather useless (I know I have accepted the offer or joined the group or whatnot, I've just done it), but the OK button to get rid of this confirmation is exactly where the Discard button of the next notification will be ! More than once I have hit Discard by mistake on the second notification of, say, my mailbox that sends me the notecards of my customers. And since it comes from an object, Discard will simply destroy the transferred item, not put it in trash. Because of this, one more customer believes I do not respond when someone buys something from a vendor of mine and my server does not deliver. - put chat and IM back into a non-modal tabbed floater, with the option of chat being detached into its own chat history floater Chat is not part of the IM window anymore but you can make it tabbed by checking Preferences Chat Show IMs in Tabs, and relogging. - get rid of all unnecessary spacing in chat and IM Agreed. But you can do it yourself by checking Preferences Chat Enable plain text IM and chat history - IM's don't need a whole third of the window wasted for showing the other person's profile. Just put a profile button there. That profile FLOATER then can have all the other buttons that the old one has: pay, add friend, teleport, and so on. If you really think those buttons should be right in the IM floater, put them in a toolbar along the top. Well these buttons are hidden with the arrow button, but there is a lot of wasted space on the top of the window indeed. Overall suggestions: all non-modal floaters should turn partially transparent as soon as the user clicks outside of them. I believe that's what 2.1 does. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] [IDEA] Access to Object content without rezzing. (was: Open Viewer Development Announcement)
Eep ! I hope it won't bring its own share of permission defects ! This is VERY sensitive matter that is being fiddled with here ! On 17 August 2010 16:31, Boroondas Gupte slli...@boroon.dasgupta.ch wrote: [I'm cross posting this to several mailing lists to solicit feedback. To avoid clutter, please *do not reply to all of them* when answering, unless there's a valid reason to do so. To avoid scattering the discussion, please *do reply to sl...@lists.secondlife.comhttps://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sl-ux * when answering. Thanks!] On 08/17/2010 01:52 PM, mysticaldem...@xrgrid.com wrotehttps://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/2010-August/002520.html: [...] V1.23 as well, makes designing take much longer than it should. Like having to rezz objects to edit their contents. Ever have to rezz hundreds of boxes to update something? Or correct the permissions. Have to rezz a box to get to its contents I think is one of the most difficult things for new people. Having to rezz objects to get to stuff, then copy to inventory, then find it in inventory, etc. I have made a suggestion on how to solve this UI-wise at VWR-2427 Allow objects containing other items to be expanded within the Inventoryhttp://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2427. I'd like to hear about other approaches, too! The main problem when coming up with complete solution for these use cases is, though, that they'll probably require some fundamental changes on the (non-opensource) server side: As far as I know, currently, Object Inventory is served by the Region, and the Region only knows about rezzed Objects. So either a way would have to be added for the Region to proxy non-rezzed Objects to the client or clients would have to be granted direct (or other indirect) access to the asset storage system. I think the same goes for the Object assets themselves, so these restrictions not only apply to manipulating an Object's content, but also to editing the Object itself without rezzing it (e.g. changing it's size, shape or color). I don't know if the AD https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Agent_Domain/RDhttps://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Region_Domainseparation of OGP/AWG/VWRAP will help here, thus CCing their mailing list. Maybe someone from there can shed some light on this. cheers Boroondas ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] food for thought: multiple attachment support versus server-side lag
Oh you cannot decide on which slot you want to wear a piece of clothing (say, a shirt), you can only Add it to what you are wearing and it will go on top. But you can reorder it later by going to the My Outfit tab, and click on the tools button to edit your appearance. Then you will see up and down arrows next to the name of each piece of clothing if you are wearing more than one layer of the same type. For example, you can move a shirt over or below a t-shirt that way. (PS : sorry for the double mail Lance, I only replied to you the first time) On 16 August 2010 16:19, Lance Corrimal lance.corri...@eregion.de wrote: hi, that's a bit better. more thought about multiwearables: let's say i have a tattoo, and a tank top, both on undershirt... with viewer 2.1 i can wear them both. How do i define what goes on top? by which order i put them on? and what about when i relog? bye, LC On Monday 16 August 2010 16:13:49 Marine Kelley wrote: I think that's precisely why LL wanted to keep control of this feature server side by deciding how many objects can be worn (possibly according to the script memory limits to come), instead of going the avatar_lad.txt fake attachments route. On 16 August 2010 15:58, Lance Corrimal lance.corri...@eregion.de wrote: Hi, I just had this thought... In recent versions there's support for multiple attachments per attachment slot. In recent SERVER versions, there's a nasty bug that freezes whole sims when an avatar who wears lots of scripted attachments enters or leaves the sim... (SVC4196) Now, with multiple attachments per slot, how likely is it that john the mindless noobie will end up wearing lots of invisible, scripted attachments that are not that obvious, but contain a LOT of scripts...? Isn't there an obvious conflict of interests here? bye, LC ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Fixing the Assets
lol I knew it ! This text IS actually a Markov chain ! That or it is aimed at a subset of the members of this list who actually know the encryption key to extract the hidden message. But to the rest of us, this is just nonsense. On 7 August 2010 17:34, Dzonatas Sol dzona...@gmail.com wrote: Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) wrote: On 2010-08-06 17:28, Dzonatas Sol wrote: Here is the proposal, as a routine. The written logical explanation in English with normalized words defeats the purpose of the routine for every reason that supports it. Clarity is never wasted. You have not given any hint at all as to what problem you are trying to solve - without at least that, there is no way to even start thinking about what you've written. Thanks! Sometimes the concept is never understood when the meaning to the word concept is not understood. If the content is money, it means nothing, to We, who appreciate the honey. We use use the spoon to eat the honey. Bend the spoon? Easy. -- --- https://twitter.com/Dzonatas_Sol --- Web Development, Software Engineering, Virtual Reality, Consultant ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] V2.X V1.X support on the same machine
I check out the code of the viewer from svn and not hg... Does that make me a kid now ? On 7 August 2010 22:42, Dzonatas Sol dzona...@gmail.com wrote: Dzonatas Sol wrote: They've had an adult grid that is suppose to be fast, easy,... and fun. They've had an teen grid that is suppose to be ... easy... fast... clean? Sincerely, ___ Life I believe I found a solution. The svn code should be for only kids... even people who decide to make their avatars like kids... so a split code base right there where the more known adult possibility can be found in the hg repository. I think that provides several options to get LL out of its corner. We know there is confusion between shared code base and split code base... yet we understand this. It's the same feel... they need to earn it to grow up... but its got to be their choice to know what they lost. Some have already taken that choice... .. they just haven't quite... you know. -- . [Fixt.] -- --- https://twitter.com/Dzonatas_Sol --- Web Development, Software Engineering, Virtual Reality, Consultant ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] The avatar name on the login screen in Viewer 2.
Hi Suezanne, you may want to look at the method LLPanelLogin::setFields() in newview/llpanellogin.cpp Marine On 3 August 2010 06:31, SuezanneC Baskerville sueza...@gmail.com wrote: Where is the remembered username stored, where is read and written in the source code, and how do you make it not appear on your login screen? By remembered username I mean the username that appears pre-filled on the login screen in Viewer 2. Someone asked in the forums how you make the username be blank when you launch Viewer 2. That drove me to looking at the source code to find where the name is fetched from and I haven't been able to find it so far. I'm asking here because I don't know any better place to find people that are familiar with SL source code. Thanks, Sue Baskerville ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Using the open source exe into the regular SL folder for 2.1
Hi all, As some of you now, my usual method of releasing a RLV is to only release the exe and its settings.xml file, and to instruct the user to copy them both into the SL folder and into its app_settings folder respectively. This allows for light downloads and uploads (it would take me hours to upload a full viewer), and to benefit from the libraries of the SL viewer. But since 2.1 I cannot do that because no version I find on svn ever works with the current official SL viewer 2.1. It used to be an issue with the XUI XML files, now I'm getting an error message about the entry for format_to_utf not being found in llcommon.dll with revision 3587. In any case the source I find in viewer-external never seems to match the viewer downloaded from the SL download page. And the sources download wiki page has been updated the last time for 2.0... on Feb 23. Does any of you know when/if the source code will be in synch with the official viewer ? Thanks, Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Problem compiling llcommon on viewer 2.1 beta
I have fixed the problem ! It was due to my VS2005 not being upgraded to SP1. It just so happens that Microsoft has moved some classes from std to stdext, and exception is one of them, hence the linking issue. Thank you for trying to help, and I hope this will help anyone who stumbled upon this problem... unless I am the only one on Earth not to have upgraded her VS2005 to the latest service pack. lol Take care, Marine On 26 June 2010 08:25, Lance Corrimal lance.corri...@eregion.de wrote: I think someone of you guys who successfully build 2.1 should put detailed steps on the wiki... Am Samstag 26 Juni 2010 schrieb Nicky Perian: I built viewer-external on 6/19. Used Vista 32 and VC++Express 2005. Took 5 builds. Logs and steps taken are here. This was all the way to a setup.exe. From: Marine Kelley marinekel...@gmail.com To: Philippe (Merov) Bossut me...@lindenlab.com Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com Sent: Fri, June 25, 2010 4:30:53 PM Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Problem compiling llcommon on viewer 2.1 beta Hi Merov, thank you for looking into this ! I'm on Windows 7, trying to compile viewer-external as I always do : - I unzip the artwork from version 2.0.0 (knowing that I will have to complete it with some of the icons from the official 2.1, like the icons for the system folders) - I unzip a very old library zip file of mine (it is more than 2 years old and contains ares, fmod and all, but is still operational at least until 2.0.1) - I run VC 2005, select the Release configuration, go to Configuration Manager, uncheck all the tests and integration projects (plus package) - I open the Properties window on secondlife-bin and remove the /Zm1000 option from the command line - I build the whole thing But even just building llcommon will give me the error I mentioned, no need to build the whole solution. This is the first time I get this error, and since I noticed that google_breakpad was not part of the viewer before, and surprisingly it uses an exception_handler.lib that does not provide the correct functions... That's all I can think of but I'm sure there is more. Thanks again, Marine On 25 June 2010 22:39, Philippe (Merov) Bossut me...@lindenlab.com wrote: Hi Marine, I just built the tip of viewer-external on my Windows XP machine with no problem. Could you tell us a bit more on how you get things together? Do you use develop.py? Do you do a standalone build? Which Solution Configuration are you building? Cheers, - Merov On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 1:30 PM, Marine Kelley marinekel...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I am having the following link error when trying to compile the llcommon project on Viewer 2.1 beta extracted from viewer-external : 1-- Build started: Project: llcommon, Configuration: Release Win32 -- 1Linking... 1 Creating library D:\SL\linden\indra\build-vc80\llcommon\Release\llcommon.lib and object D:\SL\linden\indra\build-vc80\llcommon\Release\llcommon.exp 1exception_handler.lib(exception_handler.obj) : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol __declspec(dllimport) void __cdecl std::_Throw(class stdext::exception const ) (__imp_?_th...@std@@yaxabvexcept...@stdext@@@Z) referenced in function public: void __thiscall stdext::exception::_Raise(void)const (?_ra...@exception@stdext@@QBEXXZ) 1exception_handler.lib(exception_handler.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol __declspec(dllimport) void (__cdecl* std::_Raise_handler)(class stdext::exception const ) (__imp_?_raise_hand...@std@@3p6axabvexcept...@stdext@@@ZA) 1D:\SL\linden\indra\build-vc80\sharedlibs\Release\llcommon.dll : fatal error LNK1120: 2 unresolved externals 1Build log was saved at file://d:\SL\linden\indra\build-vc80\llcommon\llcommon.dir\Rele ase\BuildLog.htm 1llcommon - 3 error(s), 0 warning(s) == Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 0 up-to-date, 0 skipped == I have copied the libraries from libraries/i686-win32/lib/debug/ to libraries/i686-win32/lib/release/ but it didn't help. Does anyone know what to do please ? It seems to come from the new google_breakpad library but I don't know anything about it. I just know it was not there before. Thanks for any piece of help, Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Problem compiling llcommon on viewer 2.1 beta
Hi Merov, thank you for looking into this ! I'm on Windows 7, trying to compile viewer-external as I always do : - I unzip the artwork from version 2.0.0 (knowing that I will have to complete it with some of the icons from the official 2.1, like the icons for the system folders) - I unzip a very old library zip file of mine (it is more than 2 years old and contains ares, fmod and all, but is still operational at least until 2.0.1) - I run VC 2005, select the Release configuration, go to Configuration Manager, uncheck all the tests and integration projects (plus package) - I open the Properties window on secondlife-bin and remove the /Zm1000 option from the command line - I build the whole thing But even just building llcommon will give me the error I mentioned, no need to build the whole solution. This is the first time I get this error, and since I noticed that google_breakpad was not part of the viewer before, and surprisingly it uses an exception_handler.lib that does not provide the correct functions... That's all I can think of but I'm sure there is more. Thanks again, Marine On 25 June 2010 22:39, Philippe (Merov) Bossut me...@lindenlab.com wrote: Hi Marine, I just built the tip of viewer-external on my Windows XP machine with no problem. Could you tell us a bit more on how you get things together? Do you use develop.py? Do you do a standalone build? Which Solution Configuration are you building? Cheers, - Merov On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 1:30 PM, Marine Kelley marinekel...@gmail.comwrote: Hello, I am having the following link error when trying to compile the llcommon project on Viewer 2.1 beta extracted from viewer-external : 1-- Build started: Project: llcommon, Configuration: Release Win32 -- 1Linking... 1 Creating library D:\SL\linden\indra\build-vc80\llcommon\Release\llcommon.lib and object D:\SL\linden\indra\build-vc80\llcommon\Release\llcommon.exp 1exception_handler.lib(exception_handler.obj) : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol __declspec(dllimport) void __cdecl std::_Throw(class stdext::exception const ) (__imp_?_th...@std@@yaxabvexcept...@stdext@@@Z) referenced in function public: void __thiscall stdext::exception::_Raise(void)const (?_ra...@exception@stdext@@QBEXXZ) 1exception_handler.lib(exception_handler.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol __declspec(dllimport) void (__cdecl* std::_Raise_handler)(class stdext::exception const ) (__imp_?_raise_hand...@std@@3p6axabvexcept...@stdext@@@ZA) 1D:\SL\linden\indra\build-vc80\sharedlibs\Release\llcommon.dll : fatal error LNK1120: 2 unresolved externals 1Build log was saved at file://d:\SL\linden\indra\build-vc80\llcommon\llcommon.dir\Release\BuildLog.htm 1llcommon - 3 error(s), 0 warning(s) == Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 0 up-to-date, 0 skipped == I have copied the libraries from libraries/i686-win32/lib/debug/ to libraries/i686-win32/lib/release/ but it didn't help. Does anyone know what to do please ? It seems to come from the new google_breakpad library but I don't know anything about it. I just know it was not there before. Thanks for any piece of help, Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Problem compiling llcommon on viewer 2.1 beta
Hello, I am having the following link error when trying to compile the llcommon project on Viewer 2.1 beta extracted from viewer-external : 1-- Build started: Project: llcommon, Configuration: Release Win32 -- 1Linking... 1 Creating library D:\SL\linden\indra\build-vc80\llcommon\Release\llcommon.lib and object D:\SL\linden\indra\build-vc80\llcommon\Release\llcommon.exp 1exception_handler.lib(exception_handler.obj) : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol __declspec(dllimport) void __cdecl std::_Throw(class stdext::exception const ) (__imp_?_th...@std@@yaxabvexcept...@stdext@@@Z) referenced in function public: void __thiscall stdext::exception::_Raise(void)const (?_ra...@exception@stdext@@QBEXXZ) 1exception_handler.lib(exception_handler.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol __declspec(dllimport) void (__cdecl* std::_Raise_handler)(class stdext::exception const ) (__imp_?_raise_hand...@std@@3p6axabvexcept...@stdext@@@ZA) 1D:\SL\linden\indra\build-vc80\sharedlibs\Release\llcommon.dll : fatal error LNK1120: 2 unresolved externals 1Build log was saved at file://d:\SL\linden\indra\build-vc80\llcommon\llcommon.dir\Release\BuildLog.htm 1llcommon - 3 error(s), 0 warning(s) == Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 0 up-to-date, 0 skipped == I have copied the libraries from libraries/i686-win32/lib/debug/ to libraries/i686-win32/lib/release/ but it didn't help. Does anyone know what to do please ? It seems to come from the new google_breakpad library but I don't know anything about it. I just know it was not there before. Thanks for any piece of help, Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Cannot wear two different bodyparts at the same time
Hello all, I have just filed a JIRA under Viewer 2.0.1 (although it shows for 2.0.0 as well) at https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-19425 In short, when you wear a new skin and a new hair at the same time (by selecting both and pressing Wear), one of them is worn then removed, leaving you with the default version and an error message. I have discovered this when testing RLV 2.0 (and pulling my hair for days over it) which uses outfits very extensively and that ability is crippled. But since it is also present in the vanilla SL viewer 2.0, I don't see what I can do. Have anyone encountered this problem ? Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Thank you for updating the Viewer Directory requirements
This is not a choice I made lightly, but many people simply did not understand why the RLV was not in the directory, and despite the number of times I said it was compliant, people just can't get their heads around the fact that TPV policy compliance and Viewer Directory listing are two totally different things. So I yielded. Yes in some countries, requiring private RL data is illegal for a company that is not a public administration. However these info are already known by LL, they didn't require anything more than they already have. I gave mine (again) because nothing said that these data were possibly going to be published without my consent, at any time (LL has a privacy policy which is not rewritten on the directory, so I assume the regular one applies). And if my RL data became published one day without my consent, I'd have grounds to sue LL for that and I'd win. Not that this is my intent in any way, but I'm just saying that it would cause damage on both parts if such a thing happened. So I am confident. On 28 April 2010 20:40, Henri Beauchamp sl...@free.fr wrote: On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 18:02:24 +0200, Marine Kelley wrote: Hi, I'd like to thank whoever changed the application page on the Viewer Directory, the RL info fields used to be publishable (they had a little cross next to the little star indicating that they were mandatory), and that's what was holding me from registering the RLV there. Today I just noticed that these fields (RL name, address etc) are not publishable anymore, which mostly addresses the concerns I had before, namely having my RL info published without my agreement. Therefore I have applied to register the RLV on the Viewer Directory today, we'll see how it goes. This is still *way* beyond what I am ready to provide to LL: it is *illegal* in France to require private data that is not strictly necessary to provide a service. Reference: Law Informatique et Liberté, Article 6, paragraph 3 (http://www.cnil.fr/fileadmin/documents/en/Act78-17VA.pdf), citation: The collected data [...] shall be adequate, relevant, and not excessive in relation to the purpose for which their are obtained and their further processing. Being published in the directory should not be made conditional to the divulgation of my real name and address. All what Linden Lab needs to have is my avatar name and an ISP based email (which they both already got): even in case of a legal issue, this info is sufficient for the police or the justice to identify me. Beside, given LL clearly states that they can modify the TPV policy at any time, how could you be sure that they won't suddenly decide to reveal your private data publicly ?... Another concern is about the security of your data. Linden Lab has already an history with data theft (see: http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2006/09/12/Second_Life_servers_hacked/1 ) and this may happen again, particularly with secondary and weakly protected databases such as the TPV directory. Sorry, but I will not endanger my real life by risking to get my real name publicly associated with my SL avatar name. As a French citizen, I will go by the French law which allows me to stay anonymous and preserve my private data. I already raised this concern, but apparently Linden Lab is ignoring it... For this reason and although fully TPV policy compliant, the Cool VL Viewer will not be registered in LL's TPV directory. Henri. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Where has Spare time gone in 2.0 ?
Thanks for opening this JIRA, Stickman. Voted. On 27 April 2010 03:04, Stickman stick...@gmail.com wrote: My guess is that this is a simple oversight when porting over to viewer 2.0 ui infrastructure. If I had more time, I'd make it my crusade to document and request the re-addition of every feature missing in 2.0. There's a fair list of things you can't do anymore. Most of them are ancillary, like this, but having them missing is a little annoying. Anyway, here's the Jira for the missing Spare Time: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-19210 Samuel Linden, a UI Linden said if a Jira is made a missing feature, they'll see it. He also said that missing features are something they do want to bring back. I don't know how they define feature but I hope it's the same as mine. (Source: Samuel Linden's office hours.) Stickman ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] Where has Spare time gone in 2.0 ?
Hello all, As I was testing the RLV on viewer 2.0, I realized that the Spare time entry in the sim console was gone, it used to be right under Script time and indicated how healthy the sim was, and now there is no easy way to know anymore. Has it been removed intentionally, or by mistake ? Is it at another place now ? This piece of information is really critical to sim owners or even visitors who want to assess the health of the sim in real time. Besides this entry is not even sent by the sim, it is calculated by the viewer as (22.5 - net - physics - sim - agent - images - script), unless I'm mistaken. It would be rather easy to put it in again. Thanks, Marine ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Brown-bag meeting to continue dialog on TVPV next Tuesday (4/13)
Thank you Joe I'd like to chime in and bring my own concerns since I won't make it to the meeting. My primary concern is about the Viewer Directory and here are my questions : - Will registering a TPV to the Viewer Directory become mandatory one day ? If so, how can we be absolutely certain that our RL names and info won't suddenly appear in clear on the webpage without our prior consent, even after registering ? - Why the need for RL info at all since LL already knows how to join us in case of a problem ? Why do we have to enter these data again ? - There is no privacy policy on this particular webpage, it is just said that LL may make them available. I'd like to point out that this is strictly illegal in most countries (especially in Europe), LL needs our explicit written agreement prior to publishing our data. Registering to a webpage with a may or may not is not a written agreement. Thank you, Marine On 8 April 2010 22:24, Joe Linden j...@lindenlab.com wrote: Hello, all. I've been reading the ongoing commentary here, on various blogs, irc, and in-world groups about the recently introduced Third Party Viewer Policy and Directory and I'd like to host an office hour or informal brown bag to make the conversation a little more synchronous for those who are interested. I plan to hold three of these over the next couple of weeks, at times that might be friendlier for some than others, but the first one will happen next Tuesday, 4/13 at noon PDT. I'd like to address questions about the intent of the policy, how we will be using the Directory going forward, and see if I can gather the specific concerns that have been raised by the community over the past several weeks. It'll be an informal QA session, held in voice, at this location: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/229/230/29 No RSVP needed, and feel free to rebroadcast the invite to others you think would benefit from open dialog around the subject. I hope to see many of you there next week. -- Joe ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] TPV - Nope
This is a sad day. I remember the times when you were indeed the most prolific contributor, when your own third-party viewer was the toast of SL, and the SL viewer has benefited greatly from your work. I think everyone can thank you for that (and everyone has !). And I'd like to thank you for helping me get started on my project back in the days. Best of luck for whatever next project you will work on, Marine On 3 April 2010 15:51, Nicholaz Beresford nicho...@blueflash.cc wrote: Hi All! Since the TPV and new TOS seems to be in effect now, I'd like to finally comment on it too. For those of you who don't know me, I'm the person who started the first thrird party viewer (in fact I made the original Wiki page http://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=Alternate_viewersredirect=no ) and as it appears I'm still the person with the most accepted patches to the viewer (except maybe SnowGlobe commits, I'm not sure if or how they are counted) and the winner of the year 2007 Linden OpenSource Award. I have not made viewers in quite some time and have basically resigned over gripes about how the Lindens handle open source and the OS community in general, so I'm not sure if my words still have any weight (not that any resident's words have any weight with the Lindens, except Stroker Serpentine's maybe, when they are voiced through a lawyer or court). So just take my words as coming from the elder statesman armchair. However, I still had my account and a couple of alts, but this new TOS/TPV, now that's it's out of the box about to be in effect soon, puts the final nail into the coffin. I'm not going to try to dissect what's written there or what the practical legal impact is. Living in Germany with strong customer protection laws, legal impact in fact is most likely zilch, but what the TOS and the TPV does, is to show the Linden's view of their relationship beween themselves and their residents and OS developers. While it's not a secret that I have been less than thrilled by their views and actions in the past, I find the TPV taking it to a new level. It is their servers, their assets, their business. But trying to use their power in a way like this, dictating the terms, making far reaching demands and lightly brushing off concerns is unacceptable. Of course a viewer maker needs comply with the law, no TOS is needed for that. But making demands like the branding (as if the word Life was their invention) or demanding disclosure like section 8d which goes far beyond any legal obligations is just way over the top for me. I took their sources based on GPL once and at that time alternate viewers seemed to be welcome and later I even jumped through a few hoops to meet their new whims (e.g. complying with their trademark policies). In the recent past, I have still used SL on occasion as a regular user and now, trying to use SL as a user, I'm finding myself being presented with new demands because my past viewers are still out there for download. Am I going to agree to that? No frigging way. I certainly do not want to have any relationship with a company who is trying to use their position of power in a way like that, no matter if it's legally valid or not. The new TOS/TPV defines who LL thinks they are and who they think their users are and what kinds of demands and claims LL thinks they can make or what they think is acceptable and fair. I can only recommend to every viewer maker and contributor to have a look at this broader picture and evaluate if their contributions in time and efforts are worthwhile. Mine where fun when LL was a different company, but there I no way I would have made contributions under the current terms. In fact I won't even log in again under the new terms and have canceled my accounts today. Nicholaz. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] A note on preserving NO WARRANTY for SL TPV developers
Thank you for the heads up Morgaine. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the no warranty clause vanishes from the source code, then does that mean that LL guarantees that the code of the original viewer is bug- free ? We can't guarantee it as open source programmers if the original devs don't in the first place, and they can't expect us to remove it ourselves afterwards, so who is liable for the original defects if a law suit was started because of an exploit ? ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] A note on preserving NO WARRANTY for SL TPV developers
I agree, there is no question of distributing a binary + it's code with a warranty, but to do so LL must remove the no warranty clause from the original code or else our own code, if based on theirs, must mention it as well, voiding our own liability. It cannot be one without the other. It wouldn't stand in court anyway, to expect second hand code to be liable when first hand code is not. On 30 mars 2010, at 10:00, Gareth Nelson gar...@garethnelson.com wrote: It would be wise to stay on the side of caution and presume anyone who distributes the viewer is liable, even if they are not the ones who introduced the original defects. Even with that being said though, personally I would never dream of giving away software free of charge if it includes a warranty - that's basically infinite liability with something GPLed, as every single person who obtains the software could in theory sue you. On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 6:58 AM, Marine Kelley marinekel...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you for the heads up Morgaine. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the no warranty clause vanishes from the source code, then does that mean that LL guarantees that the code of the original viewer is bug- free ? We can't guarantee it as open source programmers if the original devs don't in the first place, and they can't expect us to remove it ourselves afterwards, so who is liable for the original defects if a law suit was started because of an exploit ? ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges -- “Lanie, I’m going to print more printers. Lots more printers. One for everyone. That’s worth going to jail for. That’s worth anything.” - Printcrime by Cory Doctrow Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] A note on preserving NO WARRANTY for SL TPV developers
Well sure, if I stated that I agree to be responsible for whatever defect, past present and future, the SL viewer may introduce, but I'm not crazy, and I doubt anybody else would be either. This is called an abusive clause and that does not stand in court. Therefore, I do not see the no warranty clause go away, nor us be expected to remove it ourselves. And therefore I do not see us being sued by users for whatever bug they may encounter. But I might be over-optimistic, as usual. On 30 mars 2010, at 10:17, Gareth Nelson gar...@garethnelson.com wrote: It wouldn't stand in court anyway, to expect second hand code to be liable when first hand code is not. Any precedent on that? Surely it's better to have the policy rewritten rather than rely on it not standing up in court ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] A note on preserving NO WARRANTY for SL TPV developers
Naturally but do they apply to the developer ? They should void only for the original dev who implemented the feature intentionally, if any. Keeping in mind that the servers are as responsible to protect the data add the viewers are responsible to not attack them. To me developers (paid by LL as well as open source therefore unpaid) should be innocent until proven guilty. That's the only way to keep a sane relationship. On 30 mars 2010, at 14:52, Simon Disk simon.dis...@gmail.com wrote: I think I have read a different TPV policy than most people here. I do not see how clauses 11 and 12 are being overridden. Both clauses stipulate that the GPL cannot be used to violate the law. So when you use a TPV and connect to the SL grid and then steal content that you did not create or disrupt Linden Lab's service, those clauses no longer apply to you. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Third party viewer policy: commencement date
Well it seems that we can choose not to publish our RL identity to the open. I too wonder why LL can't link our RL data with our avatars themselves, since most (if not all) of us are Premium members or have been in the past. There is certainly a very good internal reason that they cannot disclose, and it's ok. What scares me is that the FAQ (and the TPV itself) states that LL may publish these data in the future. They don't say whether if, or rather when they choose to do so, people who have given their RL data to have their work published on the viewer directory will be given the choice to opt-out or not. They can opt-out now, they should be certain they will still be able to opt-out at any time, prior to pushing the switch. KirstenLee and Legolas have had their RL info disclosed for a few days already. Maybe they didn't care, but fact is that they were published then, and are hidden now. Something must have happened. And if this was a mistake, I would dare to say it was a very serious one, serious enough to actually sue LL for disclosing private information without prior consent. But I digress. The viewer directory is only informative, and is in no way a certification for the published viewers. A malicious viewer could very well be published there for a few days or months before the author turns something on that lays havoc on the grid or on the user data. Like those virii that activate themselves only on a certain date. There is still no way of being certain that what you download is safe, viewer directory or not. That's why I think risking our RL identities on something that holds so little value is not worth it. On 20 March 2010 22:14, Patrick N. djs...@hotmail.com wrote: I tend to agree with Jesse, just list their avatar name and LL know already all their details anyways.. I have never seen so far any open source project where they had a requirement about declining their real identity with their address as well.. Its not like they are complete unknown they are your customer already *From:* Jesse Barnett jess...@gmail.com *Sent:* Saturday, March 20, 2010 1:30 PM *To:* Joe Linden j...@lindenlab.com *Cc:* Boy Lane boy.l...@yahoo.com ; opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com *Subject:* Re: [opensource-dev] Third party viewer policy: commencement date GRRR! So you left in the requirements that you may publish the real life name and address of the developers in the 3rd party Viewer Directory? This is absolutely nuts and extremely dangerous and whoever thought it was a good idea needs to publish thier own name and address in reply here. Would you like to start Joe? Or what about just publishing the address of the lawyer/lawyers who thought this was a good idea? I have been using the internet since the time of 2400 modems and have seen enough incidents. There is no way in hell I would endanger the life of my daughter by ever having my address listed. major fail, Jesse Barnett -- ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] oh give me a break
Are you outright saying on the sldev mailing list, in the face of LL, that you are wanting to work at stealing enough content to force them to open the whole system ? And you still wonder why your ideas are met with hostility ? You should stop leeching other people's stuff and start your own project, preferably making some money with it. We'll see if you keep the same speech. On 15 mars 2010, at 04:01, New Hax newh...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/14/10, Carlo Wood ca...@alinoe.com wrote: Imho, SL would have have had better products if everything had been free and open (no permission system). Then one could learn from others and improve things, build upon the experience and work of others, and nobody would make money of it or have to be afraid that others would. We can still make it that way. Copyclients still work for now. And lots of them cant be detected by Linden Labs. So if we get out there and free a lot of content before Linden Labs closes up the viewer then Linden Labs will have no choice but to embrace a FREE and OPEN grid. Nobody should be making money in SL. Think, it could be a hacker or experimenter or THINKERS paradise instead of a capitalist platform. The fact that scripts can't be copied is lucky for those that are making real money in SL, it is their only and last protection against losing their income. And their time will come and their locked up proprietary stuff will be freed, also. There are lots of coders working on that. That brings me to the fact that LL is currently working in secret and without discussion on the implementation of client-side scripting, and from the tiny bit of information that leaked out, they are apparently trying hard to make also THOSE scripts hard to copy / inspect / improve upon. I say they should go for it with client side scripting. Then we will be able to open it up and share everyones scripts. Right now scripts are locked away on the server and is the last link that we as hackers and coders cant open. Everyone who believes in a real OPEN grid should get out there and copy and FREE (do not charge for it) as much proprietary content as you can. Teach content makers and Linden Labs by force (we have control) that the only future is FREE. Join us now and share the software; You'll be free, hackers, you'll be free Hoarders can get piles of money, That is true, hackers, that is true. But they cannot help their neighbors; That's not good, hackers, that's not good. When we have enough free software At our call, hackers, at our call, We'll kick out those dirty licenses Ever more, hackers, ever more. Join us now and share the software; You'll be free, hackers, you'll be free. Song PUBLIC DOMAIN by Richard M. Stallman!!! I'm OUT! ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] oh give me a break
I'm sorry Kent, I didn't want to upset you. Yes you are getting a lot of flak, and you are not alone in this case. This TPV does add heavy requirements upon us developers, and I'm not even talking about the Viewer Directory which requires us to publish our RL names out to the open. Which is not going to happen for most like me, which will still be seen as dodgy devs who explicitly declined the agreement. The TPV and the closed-source beta 2.0 have been out the same day. That is a fact. Viewer 2.0 is closed-source for now, and since I don't read the future, I have no grounds to say whether it is going to stay closed-source or not. Seems, by reading what you say, that it is going to be released as open-source. This is good news. Having the source of SG 2.0 released the same day was a partial relief, even if I wasn't sure about the differences between SG 2.0 and Viewer 2.0. Merov did an awesome work I'm sure. I think I can sense that the TPV didn't really serve the techies at LL, by getting out the same day as Beta. In fact it kinda played against you. I don't know anything, but I'm not really sure why the TPV had to be published the same day in the first place. It could have waited, or it could have been published before, I don't know. To me if the two are separate, then they should have been published separately, with some time in between. I am not questioning LL's plans here. I am merely observing facts and making my own interpretation over how every one of the moves at LL impacts me and the people I work with/for. Marine On 14 March 2010 20:09, Kent Quirk (Q Linden) q...@lindenlab.com wrote: On Mar 14, 2010, at 2:41 PM, Marine Kelley wrote: However it is true that LL has delivered a bad message recently, by publishing the TPV and the closed-source SL 2.0 the SAME day. The TPV burdens us developers while freeing LL's hands, and the viewer 2.0 is going to be adopted by newcomers, so it will eventually get a broader audience than the rest. It could very easily be seen as competition. It looks very close to some fire-and-motion technique. They suppress open-source development by laying unbelievably heavy requirements upon the devs, while moving forward and releasing their own viewer which is not subject to said requirements. I do hope I'm wrong and this is not the message that LL wanted to send to us. But one can understand why so many teeth are gritting now. What's frustrating about this for many of the Lindens is that we as an organization pushed hard -- and Merov in particular worked nights and weekends -- to get the Snowglobe source out on the same day that beta was released, rather than waiting for our usual export process to work itself out while we figure out how to make a new source control system (mercurial) work for export. We actually believed we were doing something the community would really appreciate -- getting the source out there the same day as beta. And yet somehow that became something bad. People keep repeating that it's closed source. Despite the negative reaction, we're still working on the export process, as Soft indicated, so that we can publish without the snowglobe patches added. I'll also soon be posting our branching strategy we've been working out for some weeks now. Sorry if it's not fast enough for some, but we've kind of been focused on getting viewer 2 out. The TPV, as has been repeatedly stated, is about protecting our servers and establishing the framework within which we can protect user content. I simply don't see what the heavy requirements are. We ask viewer developers for little more than good citizenship. That doesn't seem particularly burdensome. So yes, I think you're wrong about our motivations and intent. If we wanted to kill our open source market we'd simply stop publishing it, rather than creating a TPV that allows us to promote it. And considering the amount of flak we've been getting, it would be easier. And yet, we're still here. Q ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] oh give me a break
You are kidding here, right ? On 14 March 2010 23:27, New Hax newh...@gmail.com wrote: there shouldn't be. if SL is to be open, and really open source, then the scripts on it should be GPL as well. But it's different because scripts CAN be protected FOR NOW but blobs of binary and graphics , textures, and blobs of prims cannot. If i take a sphere prim and put a happy face texture on it, do i suddenly own all sphere prims with happy face textures on them? I think that yea scripts should be open too it'd be in the spirit of real opensource dev. But if you want to lock them up you ccan since they run on the server. but this will change with interop. you wont be able to protect scripts either when you go to someone else's sim, they can take your code then. so I say dont bother. eventually once everything is opened people will get over the idea of 'intellectual property' like a sickness. On 3/14/10, Lawson English lengli...@cox.net wrote: New Hax wrote: then what are you doing on an opensource list if you want your content wrapped in DRM. sl will die if its not open. and you can't compare rl doors to the internet. if you dont lock your rl door I can come in and take something of yours that isnt replaceable. but on the internet as a content maker you can make INFINITE products so you arent losing anything if i copy it and make no money off of it. So lets open up all scripting sources too. I mean no need for content protection there, either, right? Lawson ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] oh give me a break
Simply the facts that my scripts are NOT to be ported to other grids unless I am certain the source code, which would be uploaded by me only, is protected. Any other way of porting my scripts to other grids and to use it there is theft. On 14 March 2010 23:29, New Hax newh...@gmail.com wrote: No im not kidding, whats going to stop people from taking your scripts, when you can hop from one grid to another? Interoperability? The sim owner can take your scripts. For now scripts are protected because Linden Labs owns the code. On 3/14/10, Marine Kelley marinekel...@gmail.com wrote: You are kidding here, right ? On 14 March 2010 23:27, New Hax newh...@gmail.com wrote: there shouldn't be. if SL is to be open, and really open source, then the scripts on it should be GPL as well. But it's different because scripts CAN be protected FOR NOW but blobs of binary and graphics , textures, and blobs of prims cannot. If i take a sphere prim and put a happy face texture on it, do i suddenly own all sphere prims with happy face textures on them? I think that yea scripts should be open too it'd be in the spirit of real opensource dev. But if you want to lock them up you ccan since they run on the server. but this will change with interop. you wont be able to protect scripts either when you go to someone else's sim, they can take your code then. so I say dont bother. eventually once everything is opened people will get over the idea of 'intellectual property' like a sickness. On 3/14/10, Lawson English lengli...@cox.net wrote: New Hax wrote: then what are you doing on an opensource list if you want your content wrapped in DRM. sl will die if its not open. and you can't compare rl doors to the internet. if you dont lock your rl door I can come in and take something of yours that isnt replaceable. but on the internet as a content maker you can make INFINITE products so you arent losing anything if i copy it and make no money off of it. So lets open up all scripting sources too. I mean no need for content protection there, either, right? Lawson ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] oh give me a break
Don't forget to reply to all, everyone is getting only part of the conversation when you reply to me only. We're not talking about the same thing at all anyway. We were talking about content theft issues, which has nothing to do with the viewer. It has nothing to do with this mailing list even. They concern scripts, textures, builds, shapes, sounds, all the assets that are built by individuals in-world and that are copyright protected. You cannot hope for a grid where all these assets would be free for all without asking to be able to steal this content. On 14 March 2010 23:39, New Hax newh...@gmail.com wrote: agree to disagree yea but then your days are numbered in SL. If the project forks then there will be a VW without all these restrictions and lindens threatening people for asking them to keep their promises? On 3/14/10, New Hax newh...@gmail.com wrote: I want a grid where people can have the freedom to develop what they want and do what they want, without being told whats allowed, and without being watched because you might move the wrong bits from one place to another. and without lindens threatening if we dont play nice with draconinan DRM. That was what i hoped the spirit of Open source SL would be. but i guess im wrong. On 3/14/10, Glen Canaday gcana...@gmail.com wrote: Then what are you doing here? On 03/14/2010 06:32 PM, New Hax wrote: I know better than to try to get rich off of selling ones and zeroes. On 3/14/10, Glen Canadaygcana...@gmail.com wrote: Then what are you doing in SL? Not making a living, I can assure you. Nor are you putting food on the table RL except perhaps by manual labor, which cannot be copied. Ex: Ditches need to be dug. The ditch-digger can be changed out, but that doesn't change the fact that even if you get a new digger, you still have a ditch when you're done. OSS/Free Software and Proprietary software are the diggers; they're not the ditch itself. On 03/14/2010 06:18 PM, New Hax wrote: then what are you doing on an opensource list if you want your content wrapped in DRM. sl will die if its not open. and you can't compare rl doors to the internet. if you dont lock your rl door I can come in and take something of yours that isnt replaceable. but on the internet as a content maker you can make INFINITE products so you arent losing anything if i copy it and make no money off of it. On 3/14/10, Marine Kelleymarinekel...@gmail.com wrote: well I am a content creator, content theft is a problem to me, it is tied to IP rights which are a legal issue. And I am not one of those who say content theft is inevitable, let's not do anything about it. Doors can be lock picked, that's not a reason for me to leave my door wide open. On 14 March 2010 23:04, New Haxnewh...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/14/10, Marine Kelleymarinekel...@gmail.com wrote: Err... Content theft has always been a problem, will always be a problem, and LL better be on the same page with developers, content makers and customers here. content theft isn't a problem, never has been a problem, and is the nature of the internet and digital things. if content makers are worried about content theft then they shouldn't be on SL. because its inevitable and cant be stopped. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Script memory limit vs server CPU utilization as a key metric
Devnull Linden. Haha. That's a good one :D (Note : this message holds no value added and presents a mild time- wasting factor. Read at your own risks) On 10 mars 2010, at 15:30, Maggie Leber (sl: Maggie Darwin) mag...@matrisync.com wrote: I'd be more interested in the answer to Ann's are you running 8 private islands to a host now? question. I'd heard the claim that that was happening on mainland; that it might be happening to estate owners too (with no notice) is new to me. It's certainly germane to discussion of the cross-region impact of server sharing. Especially given that we're told memory and swapdisk activity is much more important than CPU. I'd also like to know how many regions are running per NIC, especially in light of SVC-5357 and VWR-15781. Are there known multi-home network queueing problems in the OS? How much real memory per region would be interesting too. All highly proprietary, I'm sure. But when you start making server performance a customer problem and solving it on our backs, we deserve some facts, or we're left continuing to buy a pig in a poke. Will we get the newly-standard Linden I can't comment on that, you should ask to Devnull Linden whose office hours are every February 29th at 4am EST response? Or none at all? ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Question regarding llSetLinkPimitiveParamsFast()function in 1.38.0
Code is proprietary unless stated otherwise by the maker. Abandoned code does not mean public domain code, this would be a violation of copyright to release protected source code to the public without the agreement of the owner first. Whether they are still active in SL or not does not matter. On 7 March 2010 17:09, JB Hancroft jbhancr...@gmail.com wrote: About that: Creator out of SL; no source code But we know the source is still bound to the prims, a la SL. Has LL ever done anything about helping recover abandoned code, in some way? - JB On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Garmin Kawaguichi garmin.kawagui...@magalaxie.com wrote: I suppose that's just because the LSO code has changed and there are thousands objects no modify having the creator out of SL : not possible to compile the script(s) GCI - Original Message - From: Obsidian Kindragon kindra...@comcast.net To: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 3:39 PM Subject: [opensource-dev] Question regarding llSetLinkPimitiveParamsFast()function in 1.38.0 Hi all, I've a quick question regarding the new llSetLinkPimitiveParamsFast() function in 1.38.0. Why did LL opt for a new function instead of just removing the delay from the current llSetLinkPrimitiveParams() function? I can't conceive any case where removing the delay from the current function would break any existing content. - Obsidian Kindragon (AKA Obsidian Stormwind) ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] FAQ posted for Third Party Viewer Policy
If LL makes the agent ID's public, people will soon ban *ALL* minor TPV's (being all of them, except maybe emerald, because that has already a pretty large userbase) just in case. Ahem ! Define minor TPV please. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] FAQ posted for Third Party Viewer Policy
Some people have no problem with showing their private fetishes to the world, other people like me do. I have a family, a job, and friends. I have plenty things to hide, my private life is nobody's business, and anybody who attempts to pry it open will only meet hostility. On 28 February 2010 11:49, Gareth Nelson gar...@garethnelson.com wrote: For myself, I'd happily give my real name and an email address - but not a postal address for public access. Anyone who would consider doing that is lucky to never have had a stalker (trust me, it's not pleasant). If the reason for requiring this information is in case we need to sue you then it's in no developer's interests to give it. An email address is fine for contact info, and a real name is unneeded, but shouldn't be a massive concern - personally I only use a secret alias online if i'm trying to hide. People have mentioned kinky stuff in SL as being a reason to hide - well, i'm perfectly happy to show everyone videos and screenshots of myself in a sex club just to prove i'm serious about nothing to hide. Hopefully that means you can also trust me not to put nasty trojans in my code. Of course whether you'll ever use my code is dependent on contacting me directly these days - no way am I signing the contributor agreement to get patches into the main viewer. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 9:06 AM, Lance Corrimal lance.corri...@eregion.de wrote: Am Sonntag 28 Februar 2010 schrieb Henri Beauchamp: I know the identity requirement will remain, and I expect there will be a form that's more explicit about what information is required, if there isn't already. For now, email and full snail mail address are required in addition to the real name. If you know of any law that makes it illegal to require email as a condition of being listed in an optional directory, it would be helpful to tell me where to find it so I can pass it on to legal. Real name and (ISP hosted) email address are both OK and adequate (they provide both a mean of communication and a mean of identification, the latter in the case a legal action would be taken by Linden Lab), the only thing which is not OK as the form is right now (beside the mention that private info may be published) is the snail mail address requirement (unneeded at all, thus it shall not be a required info). Right now I'm working on porting henri's cool patches to snowglobe. As it stands now, I'm not going to put it into the viewer directory, unless the requirements for any other data than my SL name and a valid, working email address are taken down. Real name is only acceptable if not publicly shown anywhere. bye, LC ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges -- “Lanie, I’m going to print more printers. Lots more printers. One for everyone. That’s worth going to jail for. That’s worth anything.” - Printcrime by Cory Doctrow Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] FAQ posted for Third Party Viewer Policy
I don't know much about it, but what about the data that most of us already entered when signing up to SL ? LL should have these data stored somewhere, why do we have to enter them all again ? If the data to be entered to sign in to the viewer directory is not linked to it, what gives LL the certainty that they are accurate, where are they stored, and what is the privacy policy ? The TPV says may be published, but there is no way to be sure... And moreso, the FAQ says that listing in the directory might become mandatory. With such vague terms it is impossible to comply to these requirements, which are way too intrusive for a hobbyist. Sorry about this, it seems that publishing a Frequently Asked Questions page brings even more questions ! It is always like this. lol. On 27 February 2010 10:32, Henri Beauchamp sl...@free.fr wrote: On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:14:52 -0600, Soft Linden wrote: There's now a FAQ for the Linden Lab Policy on Third Party Viewers: http://bit.ly/caedse Very good job, Soft, thank you ! :-) However, there are a couple of points that I think should be addressed or precised in this FAQ: 1. The trademarking rules as presented in the TPV are in contradiction with Linden Lab's own trademark policy. In particular: 5.b.i You must not have a Third-Party Viewer name that is “ Life” where “” is a term or series of terms. Is in contracdiction with: http://secondlife.com/corporate/brand/trademark/unauthorized.php in which we see that [anything] Life is not forbidden as long as [anything] does not contain Second. I would call such a trademarking a domain trademarking (like a domain name for an Internet site address), but I doubt very much such a rule would be legal, even in USA... 2. in the FAQ, to the question I do not want a publicly available listing in the Viewer Directory to disclose my own name or contact information. Is it possible for the public listing page to show just the brand name of my third-party viewer?, the answer states that name and contact info must be provided to Linden Lab, however the type of contact information is not precised. An email from an ISP account (not an anonymous Yahoo/Hotmail/Google/whatnot account, of course) *is* a contact information that is sufficient to legally identify the developper in case of any action against them. But right now, the full snail mail address is required, which is in violation with some international laws protecting user privacy (notably the French law Informatique et Liberté). I hope to see these two points addressed. Many thanks in advance ! Henri. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
