Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
I have said many times that the .3 releases should stop being innovative and just be a cumulative of the .0 + .1+.2 + fixes and IT should get the 2 years of updates alone. This way those wishing to avoid cutting edge would be able to load a Distro with very little gotcha's . This would not really be an LTS as much as a this one is absolutely not beta version. Novell could actually profit from this in that it's support of the .3 could relate more directly to SP's for SLE. but I'm just a country bumkin, what do I know! LOL -- James Tremblay Director of Technology Newmarket School District Newmarket NH 03857 let's make a difference http://en.opensuse.org/education -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
Aaron Kulkis escribió: selling Suse Desktop and Suse Professional for a small amount of money which helped pay for everything. No, it didnt help. and YaST would become unavailable, because the source would still be Novell property. No, Yast is GPL, it cannot become unavailable. you are seriously lost in your analysis. -- The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education. - Albert Einstein Cristian Rodríguez R. Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research Development http://www.opensuse.org/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
I'm afraid you're right on that, but I hope that they at least appreciate the feedback they got from us. It could sometimes be more worth than an advice of a Goldman Sachs investment banker... ;) Good point. Finnally you could ask yourself how long there will be a community version of suse at all. Whether they don't listen to their users demands or there won't be users because they went away to another distro. I ask again: If I'm forced to replace opensuse on some projects to a distribution with a longer life cycle why should I keep opensuse on my desktop? I'm on the move, probably. I'll see what will happen in april 2008... Johannes -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
On Mon, 2008-01-28 at 03:15 +0100, peter wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Philipp Thomas schrieb: | This is comunity guys, so nobody stops you from doing something like | that, even though Novell will stick to the SLE/SLED products. Grab the | packages and do a stable release much in the way CentOS does it- Something like: If you want a nice vacation then why don't you build your own hotel? This is that kind of logic I really admire, indeed. And btw, you don't need to build anything. Just take SLES and its updates and do a re-branding. It's mostly open source. You just need some little effort and one or two capable layers. But that not the point. The point is to calculate what is better: To wait for such event or to satisfy an existing demand among the users prior that event. You can probably do that for OpenSuSE, but i'm not sure if you are allowed to do that for SLE(s/d) After all, you need a contract to be able to download the images and the udates. You might breach the terms of that contract hw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 03:15:37 +0100, peter wrote: Something like: If you want a nice vacation then why don't you build your own hotel? This is that kind of logic I really admire, indeed. Then how do you suppose distributions like Debian came to happen? Just take SLES and its updates and do a re-branding. It's mostly open source. You're wrong once again. You need a valid maintenance contract in order to get access to the updates. So rebranding won't work. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Johannes Nohl schrieb: | I'm afraid you're right on that, but I hope that they at least | appreciate the feedback they got from us. It could sometimes be more | worth than an advice of a Goldman Sachs investment banker... ;) | Good point. Finnally you could ask yourself how long there will be a | community version of suse at all. Whether they don't listen to their | users demands or there won't be users because they went away to | another distro. | I ask again: If I'm forced to replace opensuse on some projects to a | distribution with a longer life cycle why should I keep opensuse on my | desktop? Let's brainstorm: 1. SLES with certificates, 24/7 support, provided warranties, etc and with several years of support agreement for a proper calculated charge. 2. Opensuse Community, bleeding edge, *only* downloadable, free of charge for guinea pigs like me. :) 3. Opensuse Comminity LTS, *only* privat-buyable, coz with no possibility of support agreement or warranties, with printed handbook, paying let say 100$ at once. Thus: Novel would cover existing demand. Novel gains indirectly on image and reputation. Most users would stick to the brand; To be honest, 100$ it's probably less painful then getting acquainted with a new distro. I do strong believe there will be not much companies substituting SLES with Opensuse LTS because most of the risk management routines in those companies would forbid it... but if so, then that would be IMO better for novel than let his users substitute Opensuse with e.g. Centos. Some of us, however, would really love to substitute Opensuse with Opensuse LTS e.g. for servers. A Opensuse LTS would thus generate an additional cash flow for novel or opensuse.org. The latest means less subvention for opensuse.org provided by novel or better salaries for the devs. I'm convinced that a LTS release would neither endanger the current position of Opensuse Community release nor make it obsolete for users. There is an urge among users for bleeding edge software which suits new hardware and make GNU/Linux look fancy. And btw no sane user would mix up a stable LTS with bleeding edge packages, and pay for that comfort 100$. Now the easy task: Calling a Goldman Sachs investment banker and let him valuate such an investment strategy... ...hopefully not by the means of WACC ;) - -- All the best, Peter J. N. aedon DESIGNS http://www.hochzeitsbuch.info http://www.hochzeitsbuch.selfip.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHnfH9h8q3OtgoGAwRAjuFAJwPjVO6CSkf13cZ9ddKxpOaIWu5pACfajUi +IN2A1+wt8/uORE5TL71Vi8= =N89g -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Philipp Thomas schrieb: | You're wrong once again. You need a valid maintenance contract in order | to get access to the updates. So rebranding won't work. Keep dreaming. There is no problem in getting such a contract. Don't you have friends and friends and friends. The law is on my side. Read the GPL. Wo ein Wille ist, ist auch ein Weg. ;) - -- All the best, Peter J. N. aedon DESIGNS http://www.hochzeitsbuch.info http://www.hochzeitsbuch.selfip.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHnfN8h8q3OtgoGAwRAmBCAJ48mjlEeAWjpG811rXNIQW4Gd22lQCgjC8d 99wR58hsDqb21TdBZG+1SD8= =1gXF -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hans Witvliet schrieb: | You can probably do that for OpenSuSE, but i'm not sure if you are | allowed to do that for SLE(s/d) According to the GPL releases I would be allowed. | After all, you need a contract to be able to download the images and the | udates. You might breach the terms of that contract Nobody's said that the contractor and the builder of such re-branded SLES must be one and the same institution...and sharing GPL/2/3 code AFAIK is not forbidden. - -- All the best, Peter J. N. aedon DESIGNS http://www.hochzeitsbuch.info http://www.hochzeitsbuch.selfip.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHnfWph8q3OtgoGAwRAlFVAKCMNl+spVRmiWyBr8+nvmLkrN/KmACgjD5s 9dmWxXz0xlrYawasW3dJknw= =08rw -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
Hello, | After all, you need a contract to be able to download the images and the | udates. You might breach the terms of that contract Nobody's said that the contractor and the builder of such re-branded SLES must be one and the same institution...and sharing GPL/2/3 code AFAIK is not forbidden. Well you *can* download SLE[SD] Priducts without any contract. You only got to register at Novell to get an account, but there are no contracts, payments whatsoever involved. You even can use SLES for free. (For it is all GPL.) You need a contract to get updates. If you don't have one you only get updates in the first 30 days. A Novell Contract comes at $290 for a year, $725 for three years. I know that having one subsicription you can update as many systems as you like. (There even is some product of Novell (ZEN-Works) to distribute patches and so on in your network.) I don't know if it would be possible to get a contract, get the updates and share them to the public. (I mean legaly; of coure it is possible to do such a thing...) Theoretical, those updates should be GPL, too. till then, Ortwin - -- All the best, Peter J. N. aedon DESIGNS http://www.hochzeitsbuch.info http://www.hochzeitsbuch.selfip.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHnfWph8q3OtgoGAwRAlFVAKCMNl+spVRmiWyBr8+nvmLkrN/KmACgjD5s 9dmWxXz0xlrYawasW3dJknw= =08rw -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
Little correction: Ortwin Ebhardt You need a contract to get updates. If you don't have one you only get updates in the first 30 days. A Novell Contract comes at $290 for a year, $725 for three years. This is not Dollars, but Euros. till then, Ortwin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ortwin Ebhardt schrieb: | Well you *can* download SLE[SD] Priducts without any contract. You only | got to register at Novell to get an account, but there are no contracts, | payments whatsoever involved. You even can use SLES for free. (For it is | all GPL.) I know. | You need a contract to get updates. If you don't have one you only get | updates in the first 30 days. A Novell Contract comes at $290 for a | year, $725 for three years. I know that having one subsicription you can | update as many systems as you like. (There even is some product of | Novell (ZEN-Works) to distribute patches and so on in your network.) I know | don't know if it would be possible to get a contract, get the updates | and share them to the public. (I mean legaly; of coure it is possible to | do such a thing...) Theoretical, those updates should be GPL, too. That's my point. Those updates, maybe not all, are GPl. AFAIK there is no way Novell can forbid to share those updates and AFAIK Novell has also even to provide the source code if at least demanded. The only thing Novell might do is to terminate the subscription under some legally suited pretext. But if someone would intended such a re-branding then what would Novell do? Fight and endanger its own reputation if that got public? Coz IMO in such case the open source would probably get really pissed. This all of course purely theoretically!! I just speculate on that topic in order make a point that an Opensuse LTS might be, to same extend, a proper precaution for the future for Novell. But as always I might be wrong. - -- All the best, Peter J. N. aedon DESIGNS http://www.hochzeitsbuch.info http://www.hochzeitsbuch.selfip.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHngFPh8q3OtgoGAwRAtLKAKCFN64Oi896YgzlrQrRRbBNfsgvXACeK2X1 Bec4qMogjne5C6ZUTcqPodg= =Wb2c -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 peter wrote: This all of course purely theoretically!! I just speculate on that topic in order make a point that an Opensuse LTS might be, to same extend, a proper precaution for the future for Novell. But as always I might be wrong. I think someone is arguing for openSuSE to adopt the Windows Siesta licence model :-) Having so many versions that everyone gets confused :-) - -- == I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup == -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHnLrUasN0sSnLmgIRAgQNAJ0Q+lg6pdush64911DB0cq66LXuygCbBBmf U9CWWRreS85nk40pSxmhvUs= =LCAX -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hans Witvliet wrote: | | You can probably do that for OpenSuSE, but i'm not sure if you are | allowed to do that for SLE(s/d) ~ sure you can for sled/sles. if you had the time to go through EVERY package in the whole distro and remove every likeness of novell and every trademark copyrighted by novell. then it can be redistributed. thats the way they prepare redhat for centos. | | After all, you need a contract to be able to download the images and the | udates. You might breach the terms of that contract the isos are freely available, all you have to do is register on novell. just cant get any updates after 30 days, and zero support from novell. | | hw - -- Steve Reilly http://reillyblog.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHnL2B1L48K811Km0RApecAKCW2YYhiRX+b+Ur1QfBpLfR7uKcbACfSxmC C6BaE5wyjW+tkEtFeNMeN/Q= =1GTZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 G T Smith schrieb: | This all of course purely theoretically!! | I just speculate on that topic in order make a point that an Opensuse | LTS might be, to same extend, a proper precaution for the future for | Novell. But as always I might be wrong. | I think someone is arguing for openSuSE to adopt the Windows Siesta | licence model :-) ROTFL. Btw, what the heck is Windows? Just kidding. | Having so many versions that everyone gets confused :-) It depends. Ubuntu has also a similar release model. And look at their rankings. I know that such a release model would contradict Novell's need for guinea pigs. But I can live with being used. I even like it. I use Opensuse on a Workstation for the following main reasons: 1. I have a still great sentiment to SuSE. 2. Opensuse is providing the best KDE environment, according to my standards. 3. I like to play with cutting edge software and as you know there is many of it. Unfortunatelly I find no reasons to put Opensuse even on a home server. And having the same repositories for both server and wks is definitely not an added value to me. Thus a LTS release would be much appreciated by me. And btw, SLES ain't only stability. Its more to it. No one ask Novell to put SLES' specific scripts into a LTS Opensuse. - -- All the best, Peter J. N. aedon DESIGNS http://www.hochzeitsbuch.info http://www.hochzeitsbuch.selfip.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHnhesh8q3OtgoGAwRAiy6AJ0acQUmPMe35nNAV+sxdw8aTAoOHgCeLU8k 0ou1thac6lCMzsWb89SyH5w= =Z8VN -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:23:40 +0100, peter wrote: Keep dreaming. There is no problem in getting such a contract. Even if you know people that provide you with access, you can't offer those packages openly without being sued. So there is no legal way to do something like CentOS, unless you're willing to do the maintenance yourself. Read the GPL. I've done so many times, believe me. It it says that you have to offer the source code to those that receive the binaries and we do that. Wo ein Wille ist, ist auch ein Weg. ;) Ja, aber keinen legalen. Maybe, but there is no legal way you could do it, so you can't do it in the open. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Philipp Thomas schrieb: | Even if you know people that provide you with access, you can't offer | those packages openly without being sued. So there is no legal way to do | something like CentOS, unless you're willing to do the maintenance | yourself. You are probably right, but most of the software contained by SLES is GPL. Thus the question is how much time would it take for let say 4 Eastern European hackers to remove the dependencies to the proprietary binaries from the source code and do so for future maintenance as well? I can't define it at will. Can you? Maybe Novell can and thus feels such sure about not having any such competition in the near future. But this is IMO only a minor aspect of the discussion. The main problem is that there are other rpm based distributions which provide stable LTS releases. Thus ask yourself what would one do if forced to use e.g. centos on his server? Will he switch to fedora on his wks as well? Will he ever come back to Opensuse? What distro will he be forcing at his job in the future? SLES or e.g. RHEL? Change is slow, even in the computer industry, but when it starts it might be unstoppable and there might be no time for late reconsiderations. And no, I'm not a reincarnation of Nostradamus. Even if I sometimes sound like a one. ROTFL. Please take also into account that I do wish well for both Opensuse and Novell. If wouldn't do so, then I wouldn't even have 'engaged' into this discussion and thus would consider myself as a troll. - -- All the best, Peter J. N. aedon DESIGNS http://www.hochzeitsbuch.info http://www.hochzeitsbuch.selfip.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHniPxh8q3OtgoGAwRAuhVAJ9+F2rjGsK29ED+Q2AQSqfeQwhk9QCdFNe+ tP0KxnZ1M7bjAEOuRqamIXE= =nfb7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
So let's sum it up: It is _very_ unlikely, that Novell will help with producing/maintaining openSUSE LTS, so the main question is: are we strong enough community to handle that task? I'm non-developer, but I'm willing to assist with BETA-testing (which is even more important for LTS releases, than non-LTS ones). Are there any _developers or maintainers_, that want to handle this difficult, time consuming task? -- -Alexey Eremenko Technologov -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
The discussion seemed to be ended but the maintance release (!) of a LTS'ed Linux (http://www.ubuntu.com/news/lts-6.06.2) reminds me of this thread. I read that many responses to this release that I think the number of users must be extremly high. Most pointed out that they are not interested in cutting edge software but in stability. Don't you think a long time support release of opensuse will bring (more) people (back) to this great distribution?! Johannes -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
Hi Johannes, Johannes Nohl wrote: The discussion seemed to be ended but the maintance release (!) of a LTS'ed Linux (http://www.ubuntu.com/news/lts-6.06.2) reminds me of this thread. I read that many responses to this release that I think the number of users must be extremly high. Most pointed out that they are not interested in cutting edge software but in stability. Don't you think a long time support release of opensuse will bring (more) people (back) to this great distribution?! Johannes I'm afraid Novell's counting on SLES and SLED for that matter. Though working for a company dealing with the Enterprise stuff I realy couldn't agree more with you! Nice Weekend to all, Ortwin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Johannes Nohl schrieb: | The discussion seemed to be ended but the maintance release (!) of a | LTS'ed Linux (http://www.ubuntu.com/news/lts-6.06.2) reminds me of | this thread. I read that many responses to this release that I think | the number of users must be extremly high. Most pointed out that they | are not interested in cutting edge software but in stability. Don't | you think a long time support release of opensuse will bring (more) | people (back) to this great distribution?! I would tend to agree. IMO there should be an additional LTS release of Opensuse. I think it would be for both the users and the devs an advantage and presumably not much of competition to SLES/SLED. Before all I do like the bleeding edge touch of Opensuse. I always update my distro when the third party repositories are available for the new release. (Yes I know! Shame on me I don't work with you on factory releases.) That's cool for a workstation, but what about server? Some of us maybe even not quite few do need neither SLES for a home-server/small-cap-server nor would even think of putting a bleeding edge distro on such way destined machine. For my part I'm at the moment thinking of setting up a home-server with a http and ftp deamon on it in order to suit my very little business. Thus what distro do I shall choose? 10.2 or maybe even 10.3? Definitely not. Sorry I won't. I tend to use either Centos or even Debian, but I'd really love having the opportunity to choose a LTS-Opensuse... If providing a LTS-release then, it should be a stable one, with security patches and updated with current stable kernels. I would even pay for it, a reasonable amount of cash of course. I'd have no need for phone or email support, but all patches, kernels and the this mailing list. When (or if) my company gets bigger then believe me I will buy SLES, coz then I'm convinced that I won't have much spare time but even more cash to spare though. And a 24/7 supported SLES would even decrease my administration costs and thus satisfy my very ugly opportunistic nature... ... and a 'centos-like' for SLES might come... - -- All the best, Peter J. N. aedon DESIGNS http://www.hochzeitsbuch.info http://www.hochzeitsbuch.selfip.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHnQYQh8q3OtgoGAwRAvKZAJ9FPrHulBdph50dtLmwSzUxdDChOwCfWKUL qVhmVmQIcyWG95iuHYwUK1M= =ZJYL -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 23:30:40 +0100, peter wrote: I would tend to agree. IMO there should be an additional LTS release of Opensuse. This is comunity guys, so nobody stops you from doing something like that, even though Novell will stick to the SLE/SLED products. Grab the packages and do a stable release much in the way CentOS does it- Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Johannes Nohl wrote: | The discussion seemed to be ended but the maintance release (!) of a | LTS'ed Linux (http://www.ubuntu.com/news/lts-6.06.2) reminds me of | this thread. I read that many responses to this release that I think | the number of users must be extremly high. Most pointed out that they | are not interested in cutting edge software but in stability. Don't | you think a long time support release of opensuse will bring (more) | people (back) to this great distribution?! | | Johannes That would be the equivalent of asking Red hat to make Fedora LTS, and Novell to make opensuse LTS. They both use members from the community in addition to employees to develop packages, and they choose which packages they wish to include in their LTS distros, Red Hat and SLED. They are not going to support a distro that is not ready for enterprise use. This is not in their business model. But, it does open up support for 3rd parties if they wish to support the community distros in the enterprise. - -- Steve Reilly http://reillyblog.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHm+bB1L48K811Km0RAmyHAKCOLFlZsQnZaMJVjr3UUz0tseLu+ACfW5HD XP7jobM1+VvQSKIYE5gpSeg= =qijG -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Philipp Thomas schrieb: | This is comunity guys, so nobody stops you from doing something like | that, even though Novell will stick to the SLE/SLED products. Grab the | packages and do a stable release much in the way CentOS does it- Something like: If you want a nice vacation then why don't you build your own hotel? This is that kind of logic I really admire, indeed. And btw, you don't need to build anything. Just take SLES and its updates and do a re-branding. It's mostly open source. You just need some little effort and one or two capable layers. But that not the point. The point is to calculate what is better: To wait for such event or to satisfy an existing demand among the users prior that event. - -- All the best, Peter J. N. aedon DESIGNS http://www.hochzeitsbuch.info http://www.hochzeitsbuch.selfip.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHnTrJh8q3OtgoGAwRAoqMAJ4hzBYwV4cBlSd0JrxCTwNN3VEiTwCcChuB eNMLyP3MdRmf2qthtsP1cCw= =8/AS -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 steve schrieb: | That would be the equivalent of asking Red hat to make Fedora LTS, To late for that. There is already a stable re-branded RHEL called Centos. I don't think that Red Hat is that lucky about it, even if they don't admit it. - -- All the best, Peter J. N. aedon DESIGNS http://www.hochzeitsbuch.info http://www.hochzeitsbuch.selfip.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHnTvYh8q3OtgoGAwRAplZAJ40N9Qo1ZSyoPUHxDL3SM18CwkKNwCggVLf 57p0wJXDcxSu+Hm5NKy3GSI= =2Dwl -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 steve schrieb: | I know, anyway we look at it, we are the winners. I just dont see | novell changing their business model by supporting a community distro | when they already are doing it with sled. I'm afraid you're right on that, but I hope that they at least appreciate the feedback they got from us. It could sometimes be more worth than an advice of a Goldman Sachs investment banker... ;) - -- All the best, Peter J. N. aedon DESIGNS http://www.hochzeitsbuch.info http://www.hochzeitsbuch.selfip.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHnUJph8q3OtgoGAwRAtVKAJ91cqIs51eEEioUZ39OxNaJ9rYi6gCfa5Q4 lpf4MUtEXZ52C7rIfgfewOI= =sHap -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 peter wrote: | steve schrieb: | | | That would be the equivalent of asking Red hat to make Fedora LTS, | | To late for that. There is already a stable re-branded RHEL called | Centos. I don't think that Red Hat is that lucky about it, even if they | don't admit it. | I know, anyway we look at it, we are the winners. I just dont see novell changing their business model by supporting a community distro when they already are doing it with sled. - -- Steve Reilly http://reillyblog.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHm+2m1L48K811Km0RAqP6AJ9vyqviVIwgTxS8QBivZEd7Uk4fbwCgjdDh qyDa4yLFv16qv2aswD/UPsQ= =e7Vy -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2008-01-17 at 14:27 +0800, Jonathan Ervine wrote: On Thursday 17 January 2008 00:36:17 Billie Walsh wrote: Philipp Thomas wrote: €3/year would barely get you a junior programmer here (if at all). If he's got a CS degree, you'd have to raise that significantly. And $ is € is ~ $ 1.5 Hell, If I could do programming at home in my jammies for $30,000 a year I would jump on it. I worked my butt off for a lot less than that. Meh - supply and demand. Market economics. Call it what you will. The key phrase you use is, 'If I could'. Philipp is correct. You'd struggle to get a junior programmer for $20K pa and you wouldn't hold onto them on that wage for long. I suppose the logical conclusion would be to outsource to India or another outsourcing location. Actually, Novell did that. Last year they fired something like 200 people in the USA and I guess they hired some in the far east. I think that just about sums up (pun intended) the futility of an openSUSE LTS edition. Dunno... I just hope they don't outsource it, I like the chaps that are at SuSE right now. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHjy4YtTMYHG2NR9URAhCtAKCBpE9nFOj8pAzRHEdd1AILb0XAqACfa9Lz qOwQyINnWTAeEVlQ0amPMBg= =T/6G -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:10:51 +0100 (CET), Carlos E. R. wrote: With a salary of 3€ (I used € for my calculations, or $=€) per year, which is a high salary here for a supervisor in my country, that makes €3/year would barely get you a junior programmer here (if at all). If he's got a CS degree, you'd have to raise that significantly. And $ is € is ~ $ 1.5 Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
Good discussion, so I just thought I would add my 2 cents... Ubuntu, SuSe, and Red Hat have different models. SLES and SLED are targeted toward the enterprise and include support options. They are also more stable releases. The paid-for OpenSuSE includes only installation assistance. Canonical is a commercial company that supports the Open Source Ubuntu family and provides support for a fee. I would suspect that if there were a reasonable demand, Novell could provide fee-based support services since the mechanism is there with SLED and SLES. Canonical provides 9-5 support desktop for 1 year at $ 293.76 and server support for $ 881.25. The difference is that SuSE and Red Hat both provide enterprise versions where Ubuntu provides a desktop and server version free of charge where you buy the support as an extra. The advantage of the SuSE model is that releases of OpenSuSE can be more cutting edge where releases of SLES and SLED are stable built on the experience learned from OpenSuSE. Just a different way of doing the same thing. -- -- Jerry Feldman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Boston Linux and Unix PGP key id: 537C5846 PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
Philipp Thomas wrote: On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:10:51 +0100 (CET), Carlos E. R. wrote: With a salary of 3€ (I used € for my calculations, or $=€) per year, which is a high salary here for a supervisor in my country, that makes €3/year would barely get you a junior programmer here (if at all). If he's got a CS degree, you'd have to raise that significantly. And $ is € is ~ $ 1.5 Philipp Hell, If I could do programming at home in my jammies for $30,000 a year I would jump on it. I worked my butt off for a lot less than that. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
On Jan 16, 2008 10:02 AM, Jerry Feldman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good discussion, so I just thought I would add my 2 cents... Ubuntu, SuSe, and Red Hat have different models. SLES and SLED are targeted toward the enterprise and include support options. They are also more stable releases. The paid-for OpenSuSE includes only installation assistance. Actually, there is a lot of similarities between RH's and Novell's models, with one important part which is missing for Novell offerings: 1. Payed enterprise - RH Enterprise - SLED,SLES 2. Free community (bleeding edge) - Fedora - OpenSuse 3. Free enterp. - CentOS - I know, that RH has nothing to do with CentOS, and that CentOS is completely separate entity, but looks like RD are OK with it, as this provides free version of their enterprise product to test and use in small shops w/o support, etc. And if you already have installed base, and people familiar with the product - it is more likely to choose the original, when you have tto make large scale (and paid) deployment. So, what we really need is a group of enthusiasts to put the effort to create something similar from SLES. Even with a silent support of the idea from Novell. -- Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny) Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just a pile of scrap. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
On Jan 16, 2008, at 8:02 AM, Jerry Feldman wrote: Good discussion, so I just thought I would add my 2 cents... Ubuntu, SuSe, and Red Hat have different models. SLES and SLED are targeted toward the enterprise and include support options. They are also more stable releases. The paid-for OpenSuSE includes only installation assistance. Canonical is a commercial company that supports the Open Source Ubuntu family and provides support for a fee. I would suspect that if there were a reasonable demand, Novell could provide fee-based support services since the mechanism is there with SLED and SLES. Canonical provides 9-5 support desktop for 1 year at $ 293.76 and server support for $ 881.25. The difference is that SuSE and Red Hat both provide enterprise versions where Ubuntu provides a desktop and server version free of charge where you buy the support as an extra. The advantage of the SuSE model is that releases of OpenSuSE can be more cutting edge where releases of SLES and SLED are stable built on the experience learned from OpenSuSE. Just a different way of doing the same thing. -- SLED/SLES is worth it if you want stability and support. 3 years ago all the desktops here ran Windows. Now, more than half our desktop machines are deployed with SLED 10 SP1 or Mac OS X (and VMWare Fusion). This coincides with one production installation of SLES and five development build servers running SLES. I've only recently installed openSUSE 10.3 on my workstation just to test the latest features for use with our software in knowing that it will eventually trickle down into the Suse Enterprise versions. My first project was to port a large commercial app to SLES 9 on POWER! ;-) If you want LTS go for SLED or SLES. --Shawn -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
On Thursday 17 January 2008 00:36:17 Billie Walsh wrote: Philipp Thomas wrote: On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:10:51 +0100 (CET), Carlos E. R. wrote: With a salary of 3€ (I used € for my calculations, or $=€) per year, which is a high salary here for a supervisor in my country, that makes €3/year would barely get you a junior programmer here (if at all). If he's got a CS degree, you'd have to raise that significantly. And $ is € is ~ $ 1.5 Philipp Hell, If I could do programming at home in my jammies for $30,000 a year I would jump on it. I worked my butt off for a lot less than that. Meh - supply and demand. Market economics. Call it what you will. The key phrase you use is, 'If I could'. Philipp is correct. You'd struggle to get a junior programmer for $20K pa and you wouldn't hold onto them on that wage for long. I suppose the logical conclusion would be to outsource to India or another outsourcing location. I think that just about sums up (pun intended) the futility of an openSUSE LTS edition. Jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
On Sunday 13 January 2008 14:07, Carlos E. R. wrote: However, I would be enchanted if some old versions of the distro were still maintained somewhat - the 7.3 one, for instance: it is very good on old hardware. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suse_linux 7.3: 13 October 2001 Did you ever try to maintain any piece of software this old, with so many newer versions of any of its components having been released in the meantime? CU -- Stefan Hundhammer [EMAIL PROTECTED]Penguin by conviction. YaST2 Development SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Nürnberg, Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
On Sunday 13 January 2008 12:11, Carlos E. R. wrote: Even at 10,000 units that's barely enough for one developer. Why? That's $10^5... that's... that's a high salary for 33 years! Huh? With the current Euro / US$ exchange rate (€1 = $1.48) , $100k are about €67.6k. Depending on exactly what kind of cost you include in the calculation (office space, general organizational management), this will pay for roughly one man-year in Germany. 33 years? What kind of developer would you like to hire for that kind of money? I don't understand. Do some math, and you just might. CU -- Stefan Hundhammer [EMAIL PROTECTED]Penguin by conviction. YaST2 Development SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Nürnberg, Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Content-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Tuesday 2008-01-15 at 13:30 +0100, Stefan Hundhammer wrote: On Sunday 13 January 2008 12:11, Carlos E. R. wrote: Even at 10,000 units that's barely enough for one developer. Why? That's $10^5... that's... that's a high salary for 33 years! Huh? With the current Euro / US$ exchange rate (€1 = $1.48) , $100k are about €67.6k. Depending on exactly what kind of cost you include in the calculation (office space, general organizational management), this will pay for roughly one man-year in Germany. 33 years? What kind of developer would you like to hire for that kind of money? With a salary of 3€ (I used € for my calculations, or $=€) per year, which is a high salary here for a supervisor in my country, that makes 10^4 * 10€ / 3€ = Oops, 3.3 I forgot that in the calculator parlance 10^5 is 1E5, not 10E5, sorry. I must have been half sleep at the moment O:-) In $, the salary would be $20E3, making for 4.9 years. Or, if I assume a salary of $30E3, that would be 3.3 years. If you say that's too low a salary, mine as developer was 8000€/y not too long ago. Even now, many people here don't reach 1000€/month. And one developer has no organization at all, and works at home or in a corner :-p - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHjL7stTMYHG2NR9URAjsDAKCYZ9H8wY6azCANr57d5+AY1N91TwCgiCKz 1MigTU3eEVgR9Br6QxpbdTk= =8ioG -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2008-01-15 at 13:34 +0100, Stefan Hundhammer wrote: On Sunday 13 January 2008 14:07, Carlos E. R. wrote: However, I would be enchanted if some old versions of the distro were still maintained somewhat - the 7.3 one, for instance: it is very good on old hardware. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suse_linux 7.3: 13 October 2001 I know. Did you ever try to maintain any piece of software this old, with so many newer versions of any of its components having been released in the meantime? I didn't say that it would be easy (nor did I say fully maintained). I said that I would be enchanted. You take things too seriously. :-P (curiously, new embedded machines I bought use kernel 2.4, not 2.6) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHjLuZtTMYHG2NR9URApYVAJ4hmgzCvCi528tV6uLVwro42sD2CACglRoO S7DtCwuLjNfbsp0GX+DvNaw= =52o0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 08:01:33AM +0100, jdd wrote: Cristian Rodríguez a écrit : jdd escribió: so making a light version would be a no work process. A no work process are you serious ? mantaining an LTS version pretty much involves hiring/creating a whole new team, mantaining and stable system running old software is a hell lot of work. what makes you think it would be a piece of cake ? it would be a no work process only for Novell who already do the job. It would be less money earned for us. I should only be a script to login with reduced rights on one SLES system one say it can be done by each one (and it's like this that many people do), this show it's not so hard... for real IT professional, what I'm not :-( As I see it, Novell should compare a professional install versus a personal one. Flag where the SLES price is spent (why is SLED so expensive versus SLED) and see if they can make a personal (SLEDP - P for Personal) version much cheaper with little cost. But as I said, one can look at the already working LTS of the competitor and see if the bussines model is viable, I don't *require* anything. You compare a publically held company to a billionaire with money burning in his pocket? Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
On Monday 14 January 2008 15:01:33 jdd wrote: Cristian Rodríguez a écrit : jdd escribió: so making a light version would be a no work process. A no work process are you serious ? mantaining an LTS version pretty much involves hiring/creating a whole new team, mantaining and stable system running old software is a hell lot of work. what makes you think it would be a piece of cake ? it would be a no work process only for Novell who already do the job. I should only be a script to login with reduced rights on one SLES system In your opinion. Say there's a problem with the package that is released for openSUSE LTS, this then needs to be assigned to the engineering teams, who are already assigned to SLE and openSUSE thereby diluting the effort that can be spent here. Hint: Novell make money from SLE. The amounts that people have suggested for a 'license' for openSUSE LTS is not economically viable. And, how many releases of openSUSE would you want to be labelled as LTS? Every one? This would mean 'the openSUSE community' would have to keep supporting all the packages within all these releases. Not a viable proposition. The other suggestion of a limited number of packages that is maintained is equally no-go. What if an update to a 'supported' package breaks a non-supported package? The amount of work you're suggesting for the monetary return is just not possible. one say it can be done by each one (and it's like this that many people do), this show it's not so hard... for real IT professional, what I'm not :-( What you call 'not hard to do' actually requires a lot of work and time from the developers and engineers involved - not to mention the infrastructure costs that would be increased due to the increased amount of supported packages. As you say, you're not an IT professional, so maybe not best placed to judge this? As I see it, Novell should compare a professional install versus a personal one. Flag where the SLES price is spent (why is SLED so expensive versus SLED) and see if they can make a personal (SLEDP - P for Personal) version much cheaper with little cost. I think you're asking why is SLES more expensive than SLED? I guess that's the nature of the pricing of servers in the market place. The cost of SLED is pretty low already, so I can't see the benefit of producing a lower cost version for personal use - that really would cannibalise SLED sales. But as I said, one can look at the already working LTS of the competitor and see if the bussines model is viable, I don't *require* anything. And just how much profit is this 'competitor' making? Answers on a post card please... It's all very easy to talk a good game when you're backed by a billionaire who can afford to make losses whilst building a brand. Novell can't do that - the SUSE brand already exists and cannibalising it makes no economic sense. Currently SLES is released for those who require the peace of mind of long term support and stability whilst openSUSE is available for more leading edge applications and to see where SLES will be heading. A SLES license isn't all that expensive in the grand scheme of things - if it seems that is, then you're not putting a high enough price on your data or infrastructure. Jon PS In case it's not already clear - these all are my own personal opinions, and in no way represent that of my employer. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
Johannes Nohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Saying LTS I mean Long Term Support as ubuntu people do. I know there's SEL but I'm asking for the open Suse. I'm configuring a new webserver right now. And I'm seriosly thinking about waiting for the next ubuntu LTS. I always ran the machines longer than two years. Often the contract duration for the dedicated hardware is two years yet. And although upgrading worked so far for me there were always small changes which you couldn't see in advance, like postfix complaining about file permissions. I really enjoy OpenSuse but a life cycle of two years is - except for desktops - to short. Not every release has to be supported long term but what about every third? Couldn't the life cycle be 4.5 years? Novell offers the SUSE Linux Enterprise Server and Desktop products which are basically LTS versions - but you need to pay for them. On the other hand, with the build service it would be possible for community members to support an openSUSE release for a longer term than we're doing and create an own update channel. Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform / openSUSE, [EMAIL PROTECTED] SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 pgp1HBnemCwWp.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
On Monday 14 January 2008 02:42:53 am Jonathan Ervine wrote: The cost of SLED is pretty low already, so I can't see the benefit of producing a lower cost version for personal use - that really would cannibalise SLED sales. Original question by Johannes Nohl was about the server. Novell will never have customers like Johannes unless there is cheaper alternative to SLES. They can't afford full fledged product and they are tired to go trough update cycle every 2 years. Ideal opportunity to see what can be dropped from SLES, and make some money. Focus on sales killed many good products, pushing customers to competition. Thinking on shallow pockets that are majority of customers, and looking how to help them to get most for their money was never bad idea. I can remember that MS DOS was some 20% cheaper than IBM DOS, and that was good enough to buy MS product. When IBM later dropped DOS my decision to use MS DOS looked even better. MS lost me when they started to focus on sales. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
On Jan 12, 2008 9:19 PM, jdd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Carlos E. R. a écrit : Maintaining (backporting) apps for such a long time is costly, and that is why SLES is expensive, and not so feature rich. there could be a medium point. I would be ready to pay a small fee ($10/year?) for security patches for kernel, apache, postfix and some Would you like french fries with that free lunch? Marcio Ferreira --- Druid -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
jdd escribió: But as I said, one can look at the already working LTS of the competitor and see if the bussines model is viable, I don't *require* anything. A competitor which does not invest any significant money in linux development and relies on the efforts of debian, not a nice example to follow IMHO. -- The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education. - Albert Einstein Cristian Rodríguez R. WORKING BUT NOT SPEAKING FOR... Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research Development http://www.opensuse.org/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
Marcus Meissner a écrit : It would be less money earned for us. As I said previously, it's not mandatory. What I mean is much simpler than SLED and may have much more customers, but of course it needs to not cut the SLED market (we are ok on this) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
jdd a écrit : but of course it needs to not cut the SLED market (we are ok on this) I have to apologize: I often mix SLES (server) which is in object here and SLED (desktop) SLED upates are reasonably cheap (a little too much for me, but I could afford it if necessary), and may be they are enough. is SLED (desktop) enough for a personal server?? thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
Novell offers the SUSE Linux Enterprise Server and Desktop products which are basically LTS versions - but you need to pay for them. I know. You should do your business. Your earnings ensure OPENsuse's progress. On the other hand, with the build service it would be possible for community members to support an openSUSE release for a longer term than we're doing and create an own update channel. To be realistic it ins't a question of community only. Somebody mentioned already that community tends to support recent releases. That's true, probably. But even if there would be support by them I would have need to know it before life cycle ends. I still think you could give it a try. Otherwise me and maybe others will have to turn away from opensuse, finally. If I want to or not. If somebody asks me about a system living longer I have to say: Yes there's one. Recently I read an article about managed servers. In summary it was saying that most systems were old and therefor they have security issues. They will, I'm sure, use LTS'ed distributions in future. Self administrated systems will follow... In the end people will say: linux? That's debian and its derivates. Johannes -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
Cristian Rodriguez a écrit : jdd escribió: there could be a medium point. I would be ready to pay a small fee ($10/year?) for security patches for kernel, apache, postfix and some very limited server apps. I assume you are joking right ? so you really think a fee of $10 will be enough ? with $10 you dont even pay one man's hour !! sles is $ a year for many more apps, so no I don't think it's not enough. An other answer said I can do it myself and it's what I plan to do, so why shouldn't somebody do this for a fee? the only problem is trust. This must be done by somebody trustable. May be a job opportunity for somebody else... jdd -- http://www.dodin.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
jdd a écrit : Cristian Rodriguez a écrit : jdd escribió: there could be a medium point. I would be ready to pay a small fee ($10/year?) for security patches for kernel, apache, postfix and some very limited server apps. I assume you are joking right ? so you really think a fee of $10 will be enough ? with $10 you dont even pay one man's hour !! sles is $50 a year for (;;;) (sorry, number key not depressed :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 09:58:43 +0100, jdd wrote: An other answer said I can do it myself and it's what I plan to do, so why shouldn't somebody do this for a fee? Somebody may do it, but not Novell. Our developers are stressed enough by maintaining SLE. Besides, you don't really expect Novell to cut into its sales of maintenance by offering a LTSP openSUSE, do you? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
Philipp Thomas a écrit : On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 09:58:43 +0100, jdd wrote: An other answer said I can do it myself and it's what I plan to do, so why shouldn't somebody do this for a fee? Somebody may do it, but not Novell. Our developers are stressed enough by maintaining SLE. this is up to you Besides, you don't really expect Novell to cut into its sales of maintenance by offering a LTSP openSUSE, do you? or opening a new market? what I see here is very different from SLES (much lighter, personal use goal) it should probably be nearly no work for Novell (just a very reduced set SLES, without DVD, without phone support, so just a new script for updates access) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2008-01-13 at 01:21 -, Benji Weber wrote: On 13/01/2008, Carlos E. R. wrote: I assume you are joking right ? so you really think a fee of $10 will be enough ? with $10 you dont even pay one man's hour !! Not if you sell a few thousand items :-p Even at 10,000 units that's barely enough for one developer. Why? That's $10^5... that's... that's a high salary for 33 years! I don't understand. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHifHctTMYHG2NR9URAmDxAKCU/PvRzjpJ5nWuPN91BjwltZgaywCdGPdu tgku/0LnbBp8Y+lgU3SDXp4= =b2r6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
Am Sonntag, 13. Januar 2008 12:11:24 schrieb Carlos E. R.: The Sunday 2008-01-13 at 01:21 -, Benji Weber wrote: On 13/01/2008, Carlos E. R. wrote: I assume you are joking right ? so you really think a fee of $10 will be enough ? with $10 you dont even pay one man's hour !! Not if you sell a few thousand items :-p Even at 10,000 units that's barely enough for one developer. Why? That's $10^5... that's... that's a high salary for 33 years! I don't understand. At least for one developer, that's true - but an LTS version, needs more than one developer, it needs a whole developer team and even then it has do sell 10'000 units, which frankly I doubt it will.. :/ Greetings Michael signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2008-01-13 at 12:51 +0100, Michael Skiba wrote: Why? That's $10^5... that's... that's a high salary for 33 years! I don't understand. At least for one developer, that's true - but an LTS version, needs more than one developer, it needs a whole developer team and even then it has do sell 10'000 units, which frankly I doubt it will.. :/ Yes, that's true. However, I would be enchanted if some old versions of the distro were still maintained somewhat - the 7.3 one, for instance: it is very good on old hardware. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHig0itTMYHG2NR9URAhQEAJ0U/7vxHsfGPieUF8fwhFKsf44iZQCeII3W 9P3thd/RhFEIE1UY3/21iOc= =3cfl -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
Carlos E. R. schreef:: The Sunday 2008-01-13 at 12:51 +0100, Michael Skiba wrote: Why? That's $10^5... that's... that's a high salary for 33 years! I don't understand. At least for one developer, that's true - but an LTS version, needs more than one developer, it needs a whole developer team and even then it has do sell 10'000 units, which frankly I doubt it will.. :/ Yes, that's true. However, I would be enchanted if some old versions of the distro were still maintained somewhat - the 7.3 one, for instance: it is very good on old hardware. -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. Hi folks, What a discussion !!! I find the strongest point of OpenSuse that you are on the bleeding edge of the software development. I can always experience the newest software paths leading to future. The other side of this medal is that there are much changes and parts that are thrown away. This automaticly gives a short support time (there happens too much in a few years). If you want a long support time then you have to choose for a distribution what thakes and keeps only the best, that means a changemanagementfilosofie based on the long term ( a bit conservative). And thats another choice than OpenSuse. Hans. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
Saying LTS I mean Long Term Support as ubuntu people do. I know there's SEL but I'm asking for the open Suse. extremely unlikely I say.. ;-) So there's a conclusion. On one hand there's bleeding edge software resulting on short support terms. That's what I use and love on my personal desktop. I have Suse on my radar since I ever heard of linux. All distributions are a little bit different and (open)Suse was always my first choice. On the other hand little space in argumentation is left for non personal (really all except my desktop) use. So decision isn't made by license but made pragmatically. I'm not a professional admin but whenever I do something for somebody else I'm expected to give a foreseeing advice. If I'm setting up a web-server or mail-server for one of my projects there's no need for bleeding something. It is set up and expected to run longer that one and a half year. That's in fact the life cycle because you never meet the release date exactly. That applies even for desktop computers I set up for e.g. my parents. Of course it costs a lot to maintain. But I really feel that I - as an opensuse user not a SLE costumer - am more than a development tester for novell's business products. My service in return is to recommend novell's business products if ever somebody would asks me. Although I only have experience to opensuse I would argue that a great product can't be bad if it's sold. I did NOT understand ubuntu LTS as they would backport new software (except if security patches are only for the new versions) as mentioned. And they make difference between server and desktop. Really long is only the server supported. Server software isn't updated to often. When was the last bigger release from apache? From postfix? From vsftp? From cyrus / courier / dovecot... Old samba still runs. Ubuntu's first LTS release I took for marketing - they were pretty new then. But now they release a second. Virtualisation is nice but it isn't all. If I buy SLES I feel paying 90% of the costs for the hype virtualisation. Please *give it a try*. Declare core packages of 10.4 (or will it be 11?) as LTS. Not GUI packages but kernel, daemons and related. Give it it's own section on opensuse.org for community support. Provide a script which is telling me what will be lts'ed. The few remaining I can patch myself or maybe community does. Finally I will have to unlaern another flavor of linux. Sad. Johannes -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
On Sun, 2008-01-13 at 00:19 +0100, jdd wrote: Carlos E. R. a écrit : Maintaining (backporting) apps for such a long time is costly, and that is why SLES is expensive, and not so feature rich. there could be a medium point. I would be ready to pay a small fee ($10/year?) for security patches for kernel, apache, postfix and some very limited server apps. Could even pay until $60 for one time (buy time) such support for other apps, there is no need of long time support jdd -- http://www.dodin.net Isn't SLES $60 one time for that support anyway? Why not just get that? -- Kevin Yo Dupuy | Public Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Happy New Year from Yo.media! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 jdd wrote: | Cristian Rodriguez a écrit : | jdd escribió: | | there could be a medium point. I would be ready to pay a small fee | ($10/year?) for security patches for kernel, apache, postfix and some | very limited server apps. | | I assume you are joking right ? so you really think a fee of $10 will | be enough ? with $10 you dont even pay one man's hour !! | | | sles is $ a year for many more apps, so no I don't think it's not enough. | | An other answer said I can do it myself and it's what I plan to do, so | why shouldn't somebody do this for a fee? | | the only problem is trust. This must be done by somebody trustable. May | be a job opportunity for somebody else... | | jdd | im sure someone could probably do it, but you cant re distribute it without first stripping out the novell name everywhere it is seen inside opensuse. other distros do this with RHEL. im sure there are legalities and other hurdles as well, but that is the first to come to mind. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHikwR1L48K811Km0RAnZzAKCq8iadrVDQBxdTRmM8EhEMcikyOQCfWjNz nFG0uGJqKVIwFnzNC+JhFqs= =vlE1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
Kevin Dupuy a écrit : On Sun, 2008-01-13 at 00:19 +0100, jdd wrote: Carlos E. R. a écrit : Maintaining (backporting) apps for such a long time is costly, and that is why SLES is expensive, and not so feature rich. there could be a medium point. I would be ready to pay a small fee ($10/year?) for security patches for kernel, apache, postfix and some very limited server apps. Could even pay until $60 for one time (buy time) such support for other apps, there is no need of long time support jdd -- http://www.dodin.net Isn't SLES $60 one time for that support anyway? Why not just get that? look at the price. SLES (server): http://shop.novell.com/store/novelleu/DisplayCategoryProductListPage/categoryID.3422300 SLED (desktop) is cheaper, but the amiunt is by year: http://shop.novell.com/store/novelleu/DisplayCategoryProductListPage/categoryID.3422100 I don't worry for my desktop, only for my server... jdd -- http://www.dodin.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
On Sunday 13 January 2008 03:57:37 am jdd wrote: Besides, you don't really expect Novell to cut into its sales of maintenance by offering a LTSP openSUSE, do you? or opening a new market? This is example of open mind, jdd. Open new market, employ new people, don't look how to cut existing cake in smaller pieces, make a new one. what I see here is very different from SLES (much lighter, personal use goal) it should probably be nearly no work for Novell (just a very reduced set SLES, without DVD, without phone support, so just a new script for updates access) Who will create updates, ie. backport changes? Who will maintain packages that are abandoned by original maintainers? I guess above mentioned new people. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
Rajko M. a écrit : Who will create updates, ie. backport changes? Who will maintain packages that are abandoned by original maintainers? I guess above mentioned new people. Novell already do this for SLES/SLED, so making a light version would be a no work process. The only important thing is not to cut out the present SLED market, but as I see it it's should not. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
On Sun, 2008-01-13 at 17:50 +0100, Johannes Nohl wrote: Saying LTS I mean Long Term Support as ubuntu people do. I know there's SEL but I'm asking for the open Suse. extremely unlikely I say.. ;-) So there's a conclusion. On one hand there's bleeding edge software resulting on short support terms. That's what I use and love on my personal desktop. I have Suse on my radar since I ever heard of linux. All distributions are a little bit different and (open)Suse was always my first choice. On the other hand little space in argumentation is left for non personal (really all except my desktop) use. So decision isn't made by license but made pragmatically. I'm not a professional admin but whenever I do something for somebody else I'm expected to give a foreseeing advice. If I'm setting up a web-server or mail-server for one of my projects there's no need for bleeding something. It is set up and expected to run longer that one and a half year. That's in fact the life cycle because you never meet the release date exactly. That applies even for desktop computers I set up for e.g. my parents. Of course it costs a lot to maintain. But I really feel that I - as an opensuse user not a SLE costumer - am more than a development tester for novell's business products. My service in return is to recommend novell's business products if ever somebody would asks me. Although I only have experience to opensuse I would argue that a great product can't be bad if it's sold. I did NOT understand ubuntu LTS as they would backport new software (except if security patches are only for the new versions) as mentioned. And they make difference between server and desktop. Really long is only the server supported. Server software isn't updated to often. When was the last bigger release from apache? From postfix? From vsftp? From cyrus / courier / dovecot... Old samba still runs. Ubuntu's first LTS release I took for marketing - they were pretty new then. But now they release a second. Virtualisation is nice but it isn't all. If I buy SLES I feel paying 90% of the costs for the hype virtualisation. Please *give it a try*. Declare core packages of 10.4 (or will it be 11?) as LTS. Not GUI packages but kernel, daemons and related. Give it it's own section on opensuse.org for community support. Provide a script which is telling me what will be lts'ed. The few remaining I can patch myself or maybe community does. Finally I will have to unlaern another flavor of linux. Sad. Johannes Hi Johannes, Like i mentioned to jdd, there is nothing against using any version of sle/prof/open and keep on using it (one of my machines is still running RH-7.3), doing the bare maintenance upgrades yourself. Afterall, all the key-components are all open. And all of it (and its updates) are to be found on the net. You call virtualisation nice and a hype. well perhaps its nothing for you but for me, it decimated the number of servers i have to maintain. Slightly more difficult from a SW point of view, but a true heaven considering the hardware and all the troubles surrounding it. And then i don't even mention the possibilities of having several versions of SuSE, RH, and M$ concurrently and savely seperated. Only valid statement was that older version can be used on old machines with less cpu-power and/or mem. And even here the developpers are trying to put newer versions to a stricter diet (at least for the text-based installations) So even here there is hope on the horizon... Main reason imho for suse to limit the support is not to spread out the number of people over the number supported versions. (In contrast to other distro's, they DO test, you know) Nice to suggest that it might be taken-over by the community, but i am afraid that that doesn't work. If not convinced, have a look at the buildservice: many addon repo's are only build for the latest versions. And even if the were build for an much older release, how could they test it? Or do you suggest that for your good old SuSE-x.y, all the community-delevoppers must have all the different versions up and running to be able to test? Did not think so... So either you're willing to follow the latest versions of postfix/sendmail/apache/iptables/openssh/what ever or.. just use OpenSuSE, enjoy the updates and do a reinstall every 3 years Actually, come to think about it, most COTS-hardware has a everage life-cycle of three years, so after such period you should have plans to move anyway. hw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
jdd escribió: so making a light version would be a no work process. A no work process are you serious ? mantaining an LTS version pretty much involves hiring/creating a whole new team, mantaining and stable system running old software is a hell lot of work. what makes you think it would be a piece of cake ? -- The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education. - Albert Einstein Cristian Rodríguez R. Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research Development http://www.opensuse.org/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
Cristian Rodríguez a écrit : jdd escribió: so making a light version would be a no work process. A no work process are you serious ? mantaining an LTS version pretty much involves hiring/creating a whole new team, mantaining and stable system running old software is a hell lot of work. what makes you think it would be a piece of cake ? it would be a no work process only for Novell who already do the job. I should only be a script to login with reduced rights on one SLES system one say it can be done by each one (and it's like this that many people do), this show it's not so hard... for real IT professional, what I'm not :-( As I see it, Novell should compare a professional install versus a personal one. Flag where the SLES price is spent (why is SLED so expensive versus SLED) and see if they can make a personal (SLEDP - P for Personal) version much cheaper with little cost. But as I said, one can look at the already working LTS of the competitor and see if the bussines model is viable, I don't *require* anything. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
Saying LTS I mean Long Term Support as ubuntu people do. I know there's SEL but I'm asking for the open Suse. I'm configuring a new webserver right now. And I'm seriosly thinking about waiting for the next ubuntu LTS. I always ran the machines longer than two years. Often the contract duration for the dedicated hardware is two years yet. And although upgrading worked so far for me there were always small changes which you couldn't see in advance, like postfix complaining about file permissions. I really enjoy OpenSuse but a life cycle of two years is - except for desktops - to short. Not every release has to be supported long term but what about every third? Couldn't the life cycle be 4.5 years? Am I the only one thinking like this? Johannes -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
I also think that having openSUSE LTS will be very good for a community to have, but the point is - I'm not sure if there is enough volunteers to make it possible. Do not expect any help from Novell, because having openSUSE LTS may hurt SLE(S/D) business. Most chances, are, that Novell will disallow to use SUSE brand for such community project. Alternatively, SLE may stay for corporations, while openSUSE LTS will have the same role within the openSUSE community as CentOS serves in RedHat community. That is: Community OS, with long-support cycle for personal use/small companies, while RHEL is for large enterprises. Similar market segmentation might work for openSUSE as well. But CentOS is tied very closely with RHEL, not with Fedora, so patches are made by RedHat, not by CentOS developers. CentOS is, in fact, a bug-for-bug copy of RHEL.Will openSUSE LTS be tied closely to SLE or to openSUSE ? A major problem with the so-called Enterprise Linuxes, is that they have *very* few packages, so it is a big pain to use for power users, who use a lot of _different_ packages. Perhaps, going back to RedHat Linux days may solve this problem, where 1 OS is for both Enterprise+Community. (It was in year 2003, before RedHat Linux devision into RedHat Enterprise Linux and Fedora). Such releases should have LTS badge on them, rather than a full devision. Actually, Ubuntu got it right, because their LTS releases can be considered to have Enterprise support, if need arises, plus Ubuntu LTS do not suffer from having few packages as RHEL/SLE do. In Any case, I would support such community action - making openSUSE LTS possible ! -- -Alexey Eremenko Technologov, 13.01.2008. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
2008/1/12, Johannes Nohl [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Saying LTS I mean Long Term Support as ubuntu people do. I know there's SEL but I'm asking for the open Suse. I'm configuring a new webserver right now. And I'm seriosly thinking about waiting for the next ubuntu LTS. I always ran the machines longer than two years. Often the contract duration for the dedicated hardware is two years yet. And although upgrading worked so far for me there were always small changes which you couldn't see in advance, like postfix complaining about file permissions. I really enjoy OpenSuse but a life cycle of two years is - except for desktops - to short. Not every release has to be supported long term but what about every third? Couldn't the life cycle be 4.5 years? Am I the only one thinking like this? Johannes -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] That's the reason to exist for SLES, sorry Regards, Ciro -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2008-01-12 at 22:17 +0100, Johannes Nohl wrote: I really enjoy OpenSuse but a life cycle of two years is - except for desktops - to short. Not every release has to be supported long term but what about every third? Couldn't the life cycle be 4.5 years? Maintaining (backporting) apps for such a long time is costly, and that is why SLES is expensive, and not so feature rich. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHiURItTMYHG2NR9URAgJWAJ40bhyxBtYN8FbMv4VEz/if8rpj+ACgjjsy WoY7bO3ICpbhQPhcbzX9rIs= =Bv6r -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
Carlos E. R. a écrit : Maintaining (backporting) apps for such a long time is costly, and that is why SLES is expensive, and not so feature rich. there could be a medium point. I would be ready to pay a small fee ($10/year?) for security patches for kernel, apache, postfix and some very limited server apps. Could even pay until $60 for one time (buy time) such support for other apps, there is no need of long time support jdd -- http://www.dodin.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
Johannes Nohl escribió: Saying LTS I mean Long Term Support as ubuntu people do. I know there's SEL but I'm asking for the open Suse. extremely unlikely I say.. ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
jdd escribió: there could be a medium point. I would be ready to pay a small fee ($10/year?) for security patches for kernel, apache, postfix and some very limited server apps. I assume you are joking right ? so you really think a fee of $10 will be enough ? with $10 you dont even pay one man's hour !! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2008-01-12 at 21:34 -0300, Cristian Rodriguez wrote: jdd escribió: there could be a medium point. I would be ready to pay a small fee ($10/year?) for security patches for kernel, apache, postfix and some very limited server apps. I assume you are joking right ? so you really think a fee of $10 will be enough ? with $10 you dont even pay one man's hour !! Not if you sell a few thousand items :-p - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHiWTBtTMYHG2NR9URAv9ZAJ9kjCOAtMZEm+NI4ocJvdTsNBzeBQCeOVoh DN+HDCDtu09MB41mTNa/baI= =U/Qb -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
On 13/01/2008, Carlos E. R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I assume you are joking right ? so you really think a fee of $10 will be enough ? with $10 you dont even pay one man's hour !! Not if you sell a few thousand items :-p Even at 10,000 units that's barely enough for one developer. -- Benjamin Weber -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Will there be a LTS version of OpenSuse?
Carlos E. R. escribió: Not if you sell a few thousand items :-p nope. it is not enough, This is expensive to do, really. People needing LTS should just get SLES. -- The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education. - Albert Einstein Cristian Rodríguez R. Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research Development http://www.opensuse.org/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
