Oracle Licensing
Dear All, Oracle licensing has been a subject that often is risen by somebody. I though I shall share this with you. Regards, Hatzistavrou Yannis Oracle_SW_License_Guide.pdf Description: Binary data
RE: Oracle licensing
Thanks Dick. I like that last quote in the article... Patrice. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 5:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Patrice, ANALYSTS: PER-PROCESSOR PRICING TO DIE OUT | SearchOracle.com As Oracle Corp. prepares to release new licensing fees in connection with its new 10g database and application server, analysts are predicting the arrival of a new utility pricing model. For the full details, click: http://searchoracle.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid41_gci928015, 00.html Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA Oracle Certified 8i DBA -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Did Oracle release any info on their licensing changes? I read something about site-based licensing a couple of weeks ago, haven't heard anything else since. There doesn't seem to be anything new on the Canadian Oracle Store web site. Patrice. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Goulet, Dick INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Oracle licensing
Did Oracle release any info on their licensing changes? I read something about site-based licensing a couple of weeks ago, haven't heard anything else since. There doesn't seem to be anything new on the Canadian Oracle Store web site. Patrice. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle licensing
Patrice, ANALYSTS: PER-PROCESSOR PRICING TO DIE OUT | SearchOracle.com As Oracle Corp. prepares to release new licensing fees in connection with its new 10g database and application server, analysts are predicting the arrival of a new utility pricing model. For the full details, click: http://searchoracle.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid41_gci928015,00.html Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA Oracle Certified 8i DBA -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Did Oracle release any info on their licensing changes? I read something about site-based licensing a couple of weeks ago, haven't heard anything else since. There doesn't seem to be anything new on the Canadian Oracle Store web site. Patrice. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Goulet, Dick INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: LPAR on AIX and Oracle Licensing
Oracle's Software Investment Guide talks about these things, and it's avalable from Oracle.com . Basically, if a machine can be fitted with more than four processors (even if only one or two have been placed in the box), then you have to buy the CPU option. However, if the machine architecture is such that its CPUs can be partitioned, then you can avoid this trap. I've also seen customers arguing successfully about this, even if the architecture is not hardware partiotionable. Mogens Henry, Keith wrote: Our systems folks are talking about consolidating a couple of machines by using LPARs. If we have a machine running AIX with 6 processors, can we license Oracle with 2 processors if those are segmented out within an LPAR? It's always a challenge to get hold of our sales rep, so I thought I would ask here. Keith H. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
LPAR on AIX and Oracle Licensing
Our systems folks are talking about consolidating a couple of machines by using LPARs. If we have a machine running AIX with 6 processors, can we license Oracle with 2 processors if those are segmented out within an LPAR? It's always a challenge to get hold of our sales rep, so I thought I would ask here. Keith H. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Henry, Keith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Oracle Licensing to be Transparent?
Evidently Oracle is going to build some web pages to spell out licensing issues and definitions. Wonder how often that web site will need to be updated. And of course everything will be crystal clear when it's done. ;-) Check it out... http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,361471,00.asp Not sure if you need to subscribe to eWeek to see the above. Steve Orr -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle Licensing to be Transparent?
Kimberly Floss, database administrator team leader at Quaker Oats Co., in Chicago, said she hopes the guide helps resolve Oracle's issues. Floss, who manages Oracle databases, has not had licensing problems herself ... She obviously has never been involved in any Oracle licensing discussions. Ever try to get more than 1 Oracle employee to give you the same answer on this topic? Especially when it comes to clusters and web servers. Sometimes, even the simple definition of a user elicits hours of debate. These web pages will certainly provide fodder for this list! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/12/02 10:43AM Evidently Oracle is going to build some web pages to spell out licensing issues and definitions. Wonder how often that web site will need to be updated. And of course everything will be crystal clear when it's done. ;-) Check it out... http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,361471,00.asp Not sure if you need to subscribe to eWeek to see the above. Steve Orr -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). **DISCLAIMER This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. The contents do not represent the opinion of DE except to the extent that it relates to their official business. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re[2]: Oracle Licensing to be Transparent?
I leave licensing discussions to the company CIO Lawyers. Way too complicated for me. Reply Separator Author: Jay Hostetter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7/12/2002 8:23 AM Kimberly Floss, database administrator team leader at Quaker Oats Co., in Chicago, said she hopes the guide helps resolve Oracle's issues. Floss, who manages Oracle databases, has not had licensing problems herself ... She obviously has never been involved in any Oracle licensing discussions. Ever try to get more than 1 Oracle employee to give you the same answer on this topic? Especially when it comes to clusters and web servers. Sometimes, even the simple definition of a user elicits hours of debate. These web pages will certainly provide fodder for this list! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/12/02 10:43AM Evidently Oracle is going to build some web pages to spell out licensing issues and definitions. Wonder how often that web site will need to be updated. And of course everything will be crystal clear when it's done. ;-) Check it out... http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,361471,00.asp Not sure if you need to subscribe to eWeek to see the above. Steve Orr -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). **DISCLAIMER This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. The contents do not represent the opinion of DE except to the extent that it relates to their official business. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Re[2]: Oracle Licensing to be Transparent?
License,,, license We don't need no stinkin license. -Original Message- Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 11:59 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I leave licensing discussions to the company CIO Lawyers. Way too complicated for me. Reply Separator Author: Jay Hostetter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7/12/2002 8:23 AM Kimberly Floss, database administrator team leader at Quaker Oats Co., in Chicago, said she hopes the guide helps resolve Oracle's issues. Floss, who manages Oracle databases, has not had licensing problems herself ... She obviously has never been involved in any Oracle licensing discussions. Ever try to get more than 1 Oracle employee to give you the same answer on this topic? Especially when it comes to clusters and web servers. Sometimes, even the simple definition of a user elicits hours of debate. These web pages will certainly provide fodder for this list! [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/12/02 10:43AM Evidently Oracle is going to build some web pages to spell out licensing issues and definitions. Wonder how often that web site will need to be updated. And of course everything will be crystal clear when it's done. ;-) Check it out... http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,361471,00.asp Not sure if you need to subscribe to eWeek to see the above. Steve Orr -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). **DISCLAIMER This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. The contents do not represent the opinion of DE except to the extent that it relates to their official business. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Farnsworth, Dave INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Oracle licensing
Hi There have been some postings related to Oracle licensing. An interesting article: http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/story/2219532p-2613285c.html Witold -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Witold Iwaniec INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
Hi, A late response, but this seems like: Oracle saying: This is my product and this is how we want to sell, buy or leave. And they have considered every possibility of taking advantage or they dictate it the way it suites them. How about saying back: What ever is your product, we want to buy like this sell or don't. (Hard to say since we want to have the product). So have to live with it. Aleem -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 9:43 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Re[2]: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users Wednesday, February 20, 2002, 5:58:19 PM, you wrote: KL For example, we support a 911 center. An Oracle-based application KL displays the caller's information on a screen to the call taker. If you KL look in our database, you will see one user - it is the connection made by KL the software that displays the caller's info. The app maintains one KL connection and displays the data on the appropriate screen. Oracle is KL trying to tell us the the 911 callers are the users. Give me a break! At KL best, the call takers might be the users. Oracle once tried to sell me a license for every resident in the City of Columbus too, and for much the same reason. This was for a dial-up interactive voice-response system. It took me awhile, but I eventually got hold of a sales person with a CLUE, and we ended counting each incomming phone line as a user. Best regards, Jonathan Gennick mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * 906.387.1698 http://Gennick.com * http://MichiganWaterfalls.com * http://ValleySpur.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jonathan Gennick INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Abdul Aleem INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Oracle Licensing Mess
Someone posted the original on this topic, which I sort of stayed away from, I too often on those types of topics put my foot into the mouth. Anyway, the following came across the wires this morning from Information Week. Some of you may be interested, me I'm off to do some more with PostGres MySql!! Dick Goulet -- ** Oracle's Pricing Dispute Oracle just can't get away from pricing controversies. The software vendor is reportedly seeking extra license fees from customers in a dispute over just what constitutes a user in a batched multiplex computing environment. The consulting firm Meta Group, saying it has received a flurry of calls (from) angry Oracle customers, is urging customers to refuse to pay the fees. Industry observers say Oracle is aggressively enforcing its software license contracts. I hear Oracle is being mean to its customers, Wells Fargo Securities analyst Rob Tholemeier said last week before Oracle reported its third-quarter results. They are reviewing database agreements, being very tough, and trying to get more dollars out of them. Oracle CFO Jeff Henley, when asked about the issue during a conference call with Wall Street analysts, said the company has an ongoing license-compliance program, but that there's no new enforcement initiative under way. Multiplexing involves a shared pool of connections to a back-end database that makes it difficult to determine the actual number of users accessing the database. Under such circumstances, companies generally purchase database licenses on a per-CPU model or pay for all users at the front of the system. But Oracle, according to Meta Group, is trying to expand the definition of multiplexing to include batch feeds from non-Oracle applications into Oracle databases, and that user licenses must be purchased for all users of those source systems. One Meta Group client was told that it would have to pay $2.2 million in additional license fees to remain in compliance. It appears pretty clear to us that they have redefined what multiplexing is to an absurd degree, says Meta Group analyst Charlie Garry. Oracle says this definition has always been its policy. But Meta Group questions Oracle's move on both legal and ethical grounds. - Rick Whiting More on Oracle Oracle 3Q Earnings Drop http://update.informationweek.com/cgi-bin4/flo?y=eGTT0BdFGA0V20BaCt0Ae -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Big news regarding Oracle licensing...
Please read the following article and try not to choke... http://investor.cnet.com/investor/news/newsitem/0-9900-1028-9407413-0.html?tag=ltnc Pricing change irks Oracle customers By: Alorie Gilbert 3/19/02 5:25 PM Source: News.com A pricing disagreement between Oracle and some of its database software customers has IT analyst firm Meta Group urging customers not to pay the database software maker additional licensing fees. The dispute relates to how Oracle charges its customers when they transfer large amounts of data, known as batch feeds, to the Oracle database. These batch feeds are commonly used by companies to set up data warehouses. Meta said customers believed that all employees involved in sending the batch feeds were covered by a single license, but Oracle said policy changes in recent years mean that each individual needed his or her own license. I have reviewed hundreds of Oracle contracts in the last two-plus years. None of them have contained provisions of that sort, Meta Group analyst Mark Shainman said. Oracle acknowledged that they are talking to some customers about these licensing fees, but they said there isn't anything to dispute. The company says some customers are simply confused about a series of database software pricing changes that were announced in 2000 and 2001. These customers are now out of compliance, and the company was working with them to fix that, said Jacqueline Woods, VP of pricing at Oracle. But Meta says customers see it as more than just being confused about changing pricing policies; the firm said several of their clients are now looking into moving their data warehouses off of Oracle databases because of the situation. Meta Group sees Oracle's attempt to redefine named users in a batch multiplex environment as questionable both on legal and ethical grounds, the company said in a statement. Oracle has failed to provide convincing evidence that it has ever negotiated batch feeds as a form of multiplexing with end users. Meta has a stake in the matter--analyst Charlie Garry said they had been advising clients that the batch feeds were covered by a single license. On Tuesday, it urged its clients to not pay the fees, and even to fight it out in court. Meta Group urges that Oracle users who are told they are out of compliance with existing contracts based on Oracle's interpretation of named user refuse to pay extra license fees and resist Oracle attempts to collect them, in court if necessary, the company said. Oracle's reinterpretation of existing contracts is of questionable legality at best and may not stand up in court. Oracle has tweaked pricing of both its database and business applications software in the face of increasing competition from IBM and Microsoft in the database market and SAP and PeopleSoft in the applications market. And though technology spending is down across the board, Oracle's earnings for the last several quarters continue to fall short of Wall Street expectations while competitors have rebounded, indicating that the company may be losing market share. Garry said Oracle has asked some companies, already paying millions of dollars for the software, to pay millions more. Oracle is telling customers they can either get the additional licenses or switch to a more expensive type of licensing that charges per server processor, he said. Competitors such as Microsoft and IBM offer per processor pricing for their database products. Woods said that Oracle customers that licensed the software prior to December 1999 and paid a single license per batch feed may continue under that model. Customers licensed after that date need to comply with the current pricing rules, which would likely mean switching to per processor pricing and an overall higher cost. Oracle has 20,000 database customers in the United States. We're not using this as some kind of revenue opportunity, said Woods. We've got a whole lot of other stuff to sell than a batch feed. We have a lot more to offer, and this is a blip in the radar screen. -- _ Jim Hawkins Oracle Database Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] St. Louis, MO USA __ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jim Hawkins INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and
Oracle licensing
Since the topic of Oracle licensing has come up, I'm wondering how many organizations have site licensing and of what type (concurrent user, named user, or processor). We have a network license agreement for a set number of concurrent licenses and we are coming under pressure to migrate to one of the new models, either named user or processor. Oracle's position is that the concurrent model is difficult to monitor for compliance. However, our Oracle environments are not consolidated in any way; instead we have database servers dedicated to running Oracle for a single application. One of our enterprise systems currently being implemented runs an Oracle instance on the web server, which is a four processor machine, for the purpose of housing one summary table replicated from the operational database on another server. This makes the web queries more efficient, but conceptually will cost us a four processor Oracle license! Named user has some problems of its own; an application may be available to all employees - that doesn't mean they ever actually use it. I'm curious how other organizations are dealing with this issue. TIA - Kim Thompson City and County of San Francisco -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Oracle licensing
-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Oracle licensing
Since the topic of Oracle licensing has come up, I'm wondering how many organizations have site licensing and of what type (concurrent user, named user, or processor). We have a network license agreement for a set number of concurrent licenses and we are coming under pressure to migrate to one of the new models, either named user or processor. Oracle's position is that the concurrent model is difficult to monitor for compliance. However, our Oracle environments are not consolidated in any way; instead we have database servers dedicated to running Oracle for a single application. One of our enterprise systems currently being implemented runs an Oracle instance on the web server, which is a four processor machine, for the purpose of housing one summary table replicated from the operational database on another server. This makes the web queries more efficient, but conceptually will cost us a four processor Oracle license! Named user has some problems of its own; an application may be available to all employees - that doesn't mean they ever actually use it. I'm curious how other organizations are dealing with this issue. TIA - Kim Thompson City and County of San Francisco -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re:RE: Oracle Licensing vs. The Others
Yup, definetly biased. The last I have in my note book is that NT/2000 cannot support more than 4 processors without going into a cluster which adds BIG $$$ to the cost. Also adds $$$ to Sql*Servers costs boy does it add to DB2!! Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/22/2002 9:13 AM Jay - Try this URL: http://www.microsoft.com/sql/evaluation/compare/pricecomparison.asp naturally it is entirely biased in Microsoft's favor and I don't see where it mentions that under Oracle's pricing model, upgrades are included, but not with Microsoft. Oracle and IBM probably have equivalent documents on their sites. Hope that helps. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 8:03 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Our management has started asking questions about how Oracle's licensing costs compare to other database vendors. Specifically, DB2 and Sql Server. I think I am pretty well armed with the features arguments, at least for Oracle vs. Sql Server, but I really have no clue about licensing and support costs for DB2 and Sql Server. Can somebody please provide ballpark numbers? We will be comparing it to Oracle's latest licensing model (https://oraclestore.oracle.com/OA_HTML/ibeCZzpHome.jsp?site=OracleStoreUSr espid=22372). Oracle tells me that support costs are currently 22% of the license per year. Of course, this is prior to any of the black magic which they call discounting. I would like comparable numbers for the other vendors products. If I get a chance, I'll dig around on the web sites, but I was also curious to know if the other vendors practice discounting. Thank you, Jay -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle Licensing vs. The Others
As a mainframe user (dba on ADABAS) I know that the fees are about 15% for maintenance. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Farnsworth, Dave [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Fri, February 22, 2002 6:44 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Oracle Licensing vs. The Others -This probably pales when compared to mainframe maintenance fees. And don't forget that mainframes also rent the OS for a hefty fee!! Dave -Original Message- Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 10:25 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Re the 22% annual support cost. This is apparently not unusually high. We were quote a 22% for an application last week. This probably pales when compared to mainframe maintenance fees. Jared On Friday 22 February 2002 06:03, Jay Hostetter wrote: Our management has started asking questions about how Oracle's licensing costs compare to other database vendors. Specifically, DB2 and Sql Server. I think I am pretty well armed with the features arguments, at least for Oracle vs. Sql Server, but I really have no clue about licensing and support costs for DB2 and Sql Server. Can somebody please provide ballpark numbers? We will be comparing it to Oracle's latest licensing model (https://oraclestore.oracle.com/OA_HTML/ibeCZzpHome.jsp?site=OracleStoreUS respid=22372). Oracle tells me that support costs are currently 22% of the license per year. Of course, this is prior to any of the black magic which they call discounting. I would like comparable numbers for the other vendors products. If I get a chance, I'll dig around on the web sites, but I was also curious to know if the other vendors practice discounting. Thank you, Jay -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Farnsworth, Dave INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: =?iso-8859-8?Q?=E0=E3=F8_=E9=E7=E9=E0=EC?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Oracle Licensing vs. The Others
Our management has started asking questions about how Oracle's licensing costs compare to other database vendors. Specifically, DB2 and Sql Server. I think I am pretty well armed with the features arguments, at least for Oracle vs. Sql Server, but I really have no clue about licensing and support costs for DB2 and Sql Server. Can somebody please provide ballpark numbers? We will be comparing it to Oracle's latest licensing model (https://oraclestore.oracle.com/OA_HTML/ibeCZzpHome.jsp?site=OracleStoreUSrespid=22372). Oracle tells me that support costs are currently 22% of the license per year. Of course, this is prior to any of the black magic which they call discounting. I would like comparable numbers for the other vendors products. If I get a chance, I'll dig around on the web sites, but I was also curious to know if the other vendors practice discounting. Thank you, Jay -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle Licensing vs. The Others
Re the 22% annual support cost. This is apparently not unusually high. We were quote a 22% for an application last week. This probably pales when compared to mainframe maintenance fees. Jared On Friday 22 February 2002 06:03, Jay Hostetter wrote: Our management has started asking questions about how Oracle's licensing costs compare to other database vendors. Specifically, DB2 and Sql Server. I think I am pretty well armed with the features arguments, at least for Oracle vs. Sql Server, but I really have no clue about licensing and support costs for DB2 and Sql Server. Can somebody please provide ballpark numbers? We will be comparing it to Oracle's latest licensing model (https://oraclestore.oracle.com/OA_HTML/ibeCZzpHome.jsp?site=OracleStoreUS; respid=22372). Oracle tells me that support costs are currently 22% of the license per year. Of course, this is prior to any of the black magic which they call discounting. I would like comparable numbers for the other vendors products. If I get a chance, I'll dig around on the web sites, but I was also curious to know if the other vendors practice discounting. Thank you, Jay -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle Licensing vs. The Others
-This probably pales when compared to mainframe maintenance fees. And don't forget that mainframes also rent the OS for a hefty fee!! Dave -Original Message- Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 10:25 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Re the 22% annual support cost. This is apparently not unusually high. We were quote a 22% for an application last week. This probably pales when compared to mainframe maintenance fees. Jared On Friday 22 February 2002 06:03, Jay Hostetter wrote: Our management has started asking questions about how Oracle's licensing costs compare to other database vendors. Specifically, DB2 and Sql Server. I think I am pretty well armed with the features arguments, at least for Oracle vs. Sql Server, but I really have no clue about licensing and support costs for DB2 and Sql Server. Can somebody please provide ballpark numbers? We will be comparing it to Oracle's latest licensing model (https://oraclestore.oracle.com/OA_HTML/ibeCZzpHome.jsp?site=OracleStoreUS; respid=22372). Oracle tells me that support costs are currently 22% of the license per year. Of course, this is prior to any of the black magic which they call discounting. I would like comparable numbers for the other vendors products. If I get a chance, I'll dig around on the web sites, but I was also curious to know if the other vendors practice discounting. Thank you, Jay -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Farnsworth, Dave INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle Licensing vs. The Others
Jay - Try this URL: http://www.microsoft.com/sql/evaluation/compare/pricecomparison.asp naturally it is entirely biased in Microsoft's favor and I don't see where it mentions that under Oracle's pricing model, upgrades are included, but not with Microsoft. Oracle and IBM probably have equivalent documents on their sites. Hope that helps. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 8:03 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Our management has started asking questions about how Oracle's licensing costs compare to other database vendors. Specifically, DB2 and Sql Server. I think I am pretty well armed with the features arguments, at least for Oracle vs. Sql Server, but I really have no clue about licensing and support costs for DB2 and Sql Server. Can somebody please provide ballpark numbers? We will be comparing it to Oracle's latest licensing model (https://oraclestore.oracle.com/OA_HTML/ibeCZzpHome.jsp?site=OracleStoreUSr espid=22372). Oracle tells me that support costs are currently 22% of the license per year. Of course, this is prior to any of the black magic which they call discounting. I would like comparable numbers for the other vendors products. If I get a chance, I'll dig around on the web sites, but I was also curious to know if the other vendors practice discounting. Thank you, Jay -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
Thanks for the information Suhen. Seems like my company purchaser got the wrong information when he bought the license. Regards, Leo -Original Message- Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:28:31 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Leo, The named user license is concurrent per session/connections to the database. Although you have 1 userid defined you will not be allowed to have more than 5 users connect to the instance simultaneously. Regards $uhen While we are on the topic of oracle licensing, can someone help to clear up some doubts on named user licensing that I have? We have an existing 5-named user license for a small oracle 8i (8.1.5) database we have, but right now, it seems to be restricting the number of user sessions to 5 sessions even though the sessions are all using the same userid. Is this how the named user license is supposed to work? I was under the impression that the named user license was for restricting the number of users which you can create for a database and not the number of sessions. Or am I missing out on some settings/parameters to be defined? Regards, Leo -Original Message- Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:00:30 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] I suggest you talk to your Oracle rep before getting started. 'Concurrent' licensing is no longer a valid licensing model for Oracle. They sell by named user or per CPU. Their criteria for making you use the CPU licensing is rather broad. Just went through a licensing audit here. Lots o fun, let me tell you. While on the subject, does anyone have a good app/spreadsheet or template of some kind for tracking Oracle license use? It needs to track EE and Std versions, named and CPU licenses, servers, databases on the servers, users on the databases. I've cobbled my own stuff together from bits of string and baling wire, but I'm getting tired of messing with modifying SQL everytime I want a different view of the data, or to see if I can squeeze another app in without licensing more users. Thanks, Jared Smith, Ron L. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/19/02 11:14 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users We have been asked to gather statistics on the number of clients using Oracle. This is being done to determine if we have sufficient licensing. We have about 100 instances to monitor. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on what Concurrent users might mean to the majority of people? We have both Oracle 7 and Oracle 8. Ron Smith DBA Kerr-McGee Corp -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Smith, Ron L. INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kwek Li Gek INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Suhen Pather INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
Web Licensing means that you use the DB for applications that are accessed through the internet, NOT INTRANET. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 20, 2002 12:08 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users Rachel - By Web license, do you mean the unlimited-user CPU-based licensing? Thanks. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 3:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L you need to be careful if you are also using databases whose contents appear on the web, as Oracle will want you to use a web license (extremely expensive) even if the data is not directly accessed but appears on the web in static pages generated from the Oracle database. --- Stephane Faroult [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Smith, Ron L. wrote: We have been asked to gather statistics on the number of clients using Oracle. This is being done to determine if we have sufficient licensing. We have about 100 instances to monitor. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on what Concurrent users might mean to the majority of people? We have both Oracle 7 and Oracle 8. Ron Smith DBA Kerr-McGee Corp Well, I have just been working on this for one of my customers last week. The obvious thing is to query V$SESSION at regular intervals (dbms_job can help) and what you can do is store the result through a database link to a single instance. Where it was tricky was that we wanted to identify 'system' processes (easy, except that job processes are marked as 'USER', which is debatable), and (that's where the snag is) processes which are the results of a connection through a database link. The logic is that a database link is initiated by a 'normal' connection - for which the full-blown licence is already paid. So they should not exactly count as much as regular connection; and if this is not a good argument, then it is probably possible to reduce their number by shifting around applications. Ultimately we could apply Larry's favorite concept of 'single instance' (anyway I have always found DB links messy). My trouble was that nothing, but human knowledge, can tell whether the connection comes from a database link or is genuine (if somebody has a way, please share !). All the user information (machine, program, module, action ...) comes from the initial connection and is propagated. I have solved this (not fully satisfactorily) by having a table automatically inserted with unknown (machine, program) pairs and manually updated to say 'If we see this program on this database, then it comes from a database link' - or 'anything coming from this machine must come from a database link'. Added something for connection from HTTP servers, although I doubt that those will be spontaneously discussed during the negotiation. -- Regards, Stephane Faroult Oriole Ltd -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stephane Faroult INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
Can anyone provide more details on Web licensing? I asked our manager that negotiates the Oracle licensing and he was only aware of Named and CPU (formerly UPU) licensing for unlimited users. I checked at Oraclestore, and it only shows Named and Processor licensing. If we are missing something, I would like to avoid a nasty licensing surprise. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 4:38 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Web Licensing means that you use the DB for applications that are accessed through the internet, NOT INTRANET. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 20, 2002 12:08 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users Rachel - By Web license, do you mean the unlimited-user CPU-based licensing? Thanks. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 3:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L you need to be careful if you are also using databases whose contents appear on the web, as Oracle will want you to use a web license (extremely expensive) even if the data is not directly accessed but appears on the web in static pages generated from the Oracle database. --- Stephane Faroult [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Smith, Ron L. wrote: We have been asked to gather statistics on the number of clients using Oracle. This is being done to determine if we have sufficient licensing. We have about 100 instances to monitor. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on what Concurrent users might mean to the majority of people? We have both Oracle 7 and Oracle 8. Ron Smith DBA Kerr-McGee Corp Well, I have just been working on this for one of my customers last week. The obvious thing is to query V$SESSION at regular intervals (dbms_job can help) and what you can do is store the result through a database link to a single instance. Where it was tricky was that we wanted to identify 'system' processes (easy, except that job processes are marked as 'USER', which is debatable), and (that's where the snag is) processes which are the results of a connection through a database link. The logic is that a database link is initiated by a 'normal' connection - for which the full-blown licence is already paid. So they should not exactly count as much as regular connection; and if this is not a good argument, then it is probably possible to reduce their number by shifting around applications. Ultimately we could apply Larry's favorite concept of 'single instance' (anyway I have always found DB links messy). My trouble was that nothing, but human knowledge, can tell whether the connection comes from a database link or is genuine (if somebody has a way, please share !). All the user information (machine, program, module, action ...) comes from the initial connection and is propagated. I have solved this (not fully satisfactorily) by having a table automatically inserted with unknown (machine, program) pairs and manually updated to say 'If we see this program on this database, then it comes from a database link' - or 'anything coming from this machine must come from a database link'. Added something for connection from HTTP servers, although I doubt that those will be spontaneously discussed during the negotiation. -- Regards, Stephane Faroult Oriole Ltd -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stephane Faroult INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
Hello Dennis We operate here on a site license that cover our internal users and servers. About a month ago we talked with oracle about a database that will be connected to our internet site. They come back and said that we need a separate license for this and our regular site license cover only INTERNAL use. You need a separate license if you use the DB VIA internet. I do not know if it is named or CPU or whatever. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 20, 2002 3:43 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users Can anyone provide more details on Web licensing? I asked our manager that negotiates the Oracle licensing and he was only aware of Named and CPU (formerly UPU) licensing for unlimited users. I checked at Oraclestore, and it only shows Named and Processor licensing. If we are missing something, I would like to avoid a nasty licensing surprise. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 4:38 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Web Licensing means that you use the DB for applications that are accessed through the internet, NOT INTRANET. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 20, 2002 12:08 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users Rachel - By Web license, do you mean the unlimited-user CPU-based licensing? Thanks. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 3:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L you need to be careful if you are also using databases whose contents appear on the web, as Oracle will want you to use a web license (extremely expensive) even if the data is not directly accessed but appears on the web in static pages generated from the Oracle database. --- Stephane Faroult [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Smith, Ron L. wrote: We have been asked to gather statistics on the number of clients using Oracle. This is being done to determine if we have sufficient licensing. We have about 100 instances to monitor. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on what Concurrent users might mean to the majority of people? We have both Oracle 7 and Oracle 8. Ron Smith DBA Kerr-McGee Corp Well, I have just been working on this for one of my customers last week. The obvious thing is to query V$SESSION at regular intervals (dbms_job can help) and what you can do is store the result through a database link to a single instance. Where it was tricky was that we wanted to identify 'system' processes (easy, except that job processes are marked as 'USER', which is debatable), and (that's where the snag is) processes which are the results of a connection through a database link. The logic is that a database link is initiated by a 'normal' connection - for which the full-blown licence is already paid. So they should not exactly count as much as regular connection; and if this is not a good argument, then it is probably possible to reduce their number by shifting around applications. Ultimately we could apply Larry's favorite concept of 'single instance' (anyway I have always found DB links messy). My trouble was that nothing, but human knowledge, can tell whether the connection comes from a database link or is genuine (if somebody has a way, please share !). All the user information (machine, program, module, action ...) comes from the initial connection and is propagated. I have solved this (not fully satisfactorily) by having a table automatically inserted with unknown (machine, program) pairs and manually updated to say 'If we see this program on this database, then it comes from a database link' - or 'anything coming from this machine must come from a database link'. Added something for connection from HTTP servers, although I doubt that those will be spontaneously discussed during the negotiation. -- Regards, Stephane Faroult Oriole Ltd -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stephane Faroult INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
Adary - Wow that is not good! Has anyone else encountered this situation? Does the licensing fee have a name? Any indication if it differs between US and non-US licensing? Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:58 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Dennis We operate here on a site license that cover our internal users and servers. About a month ago we talked with oracle about a database that will be connected to our internet site. They come back and said that we need a separate license for this and our regular site license cover only INTERNAL use. You need a separate license if you use the DB VIA internet. I do not know if it is named or CPU or whatever. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 20, 2002 3:43 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users Can anyone provide more details on Web licensing? I asked our manager that negotiates the Oracle licensing and he was only aware of Named and CPU (formerly UPU) licensing for unlimited users. I checked at Oraclestore, and it only shows Named and Processor licensing. If we are missing something, I would like to avoid a nasty licensing surprise. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 4:38 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Web Licensing means that you use the DB for applications that are accessed through the internet, NOT INTRANET. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 20, 2002 12:08 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users Rachel - By Web license, do you mean the unlimited-user CPU-based licensing? Thanks. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 3:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L you need to be careful if you are also using databases whose contents appear on the web, as Oracle will want you to use a web license (extremely expensive) even if the data is not directly accessed but appears on the web in static pages generated from the Oracle database. --- Stephane Faroult [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Smith, Ron L. wrote: We have been asked to gather statistics on the number of clients using Oracle. This is being done to determine if we have sufficient licensing. We have about 100 instances to monitor. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on what Concurrent users might mean to the majority of people? We have both Oracle 7 and Oracle 8. Ron Smith DBA Kerr-McGee Corp Well, I have just been working on this for one of my customers last week. The obvious thing is to query V$SESSION at regular intervals (dbms_job can help) and what you can do is store the result through a database link to a single instance. Where it was tricky was that we wanted to identify 'system' processes (easy, except that job processes are marked as 'USER', which is debatable), and (that's where the snag is) processes which are the results of a connection through a database link. The logic is that a database link is initiated by a 'normal' connection - for which the full-blown licence is already paid. So they should not exactly count as much as regular connection; and if this is not a good argument, then it is probably possible to reduce their number by shifting around applications. Ultimately we could apply Larry's favorite concept of 'single instance' (anyway I have always found DB links messy). My trouble was that nothing, but human knowledge, can tell whether the connection comes from a database link or is genuine (if somebody has a way, please share !). All the user information (machine, program, module, action ...) comes from the initial connection and is propagated. I have solved this (not fully satisfactorily) by having a table automatically inserted with unknown (machine, program) pairs and manually updated to say 'If we see this program on this database, then it comes from a database link' - or 'anything coming from this machine must come from a database link'. Added something for connection from HTTP servers, although I doubt that those will be spontaneously discussed during the negotiation. -- Regards, Stephane Faroult Oriole Ltd -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stephane Faroult INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
Our Oracle rep fully understood that our DB is accessed via our intranet, a large third party network, and the internet. We were only required to purchase CPU based licensing. There was no additional Web licensing fee. After reading this, I am concerned they will be back to discuss more fees. Steve McClure -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Adary - Wow that is not good! Has anyone else encountered this situation? Does the licensing fee have a name? Any indication if it differs between US and non-US licensing? Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:58 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Dennis We operate here on a site license that cover our internal users and servers. About a month ago we talked with oracle about a database that will be connected to our internet site. They come back and said that we need a separate license for this and our regular site license cover only INTERNAL use. You need a separate license if you use the DB VIA internet. I do not know if it is named or CPU or whatever. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steve McClure INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
In our latest discussions with Oracle, it is my understanding that there is the Named user license and the CPU license. CPU allows an unlimited number of users. Named has a limited number of users. Now, it has always been my personal experience that nobody really knows what a user is. Ask 10 different Oracle personnel what a user is, and you will get 10 different answers. For example, we support a 911 center. An Oracle-based application displays the caller's information on a screen to the call taker. If you look in our database, you will see one user - it is the connection made by the software that displays the caller's info. The app maintains one connection and displays the data on the appropriate screen. Oracle is trying to tell us the the 911 callers are the users. Give me a break! At best, the call takers might be the users. Apparently there are (or were) Term licenses also. See http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_STO61415,00.html Rest assured - as soon as you figure it out, they will change it. Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/20/02 12:30PM Adary - Wow that is not good! Has anyone else encountered this situation? Does the licensing fee have a name? Any indication if it differs between US and non-US licensing? Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:58 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Dennis We operate here on a site license that cover our internal users and servers. About a month ago we talked with oracle about a database that will be connected to our internet site. They come back and said that we need a separate license for this and our regular site license cover only INTERNAL use. You need a separate license if you use the DB VIA internet. I do not know if it is named or CPU or whatever. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 20, 2002 3:43 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users Can anyone provide more details on Web licensing? I asked our manager that negotiates the Oracle licensing and he was only aware of Named and CPU (formerly UPU) licensing for unlimited users. I checked at Oraclestore, and it only shows Named and Processor licensing. If we are missing something, I would like to avoid a nasty licensing surprise. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
There are only 2 license types: named user and CPU. There isn't any 'web' licensing. Oracle will require you to purchase the CPU license for systems that: 1) are on the internet 2) on the intranet, unless all employees are covered under a site license 3) feed other database systems 4) subject to interpretation of your local sales critter, and highly dependant on the size of their boat payment. Jared Steve McClure [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/20/02 10:59 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users Our Oracle rep fully understood that our DB is accessed via our intranet, a large third party network, and the internet. We were only required to purchase CPU based licensing. There was no additional Web licensing fee. After reading this, I am concerned they will be back to discuss more fees. Steve McClure -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Adary - Wow that is not good! Has anyone else encountered this situation? Does the licensing fee have a name? Any indication if it differs between US and non-US licensing? Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:58 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Dennis We operate here on a site license that cover our internal users and servers. About a month ago we talked with oracle about a database that will be connected to our internet site. They come back and said that we need a separate license for this and our regular site license cover only INTERNAL use. You need a separate license if you use the DB VIA internet. I do not know if it is named or CPU or whatever. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steve McClure INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
Jay: From past experience, Named Users refers to the users of the application, meaning for you the 911 operators. In the past, users referred to connections to the database. Thus an application may only have one user but several thousand connections. We had this problem when implementing CICS for Oracle on the mainframe. Even Tuxedo on client/server has this issue. These transaction monitors act as gates to the Oracle world. We had to price average usage amount to accommodate our Oracle licensing. Hope this helps. Thank You Stephen P. Karniotis Technical Alliance Manager Compuware Corporation Direct: (248) 865-4350 Mobile: (248) 408-2918 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web:www.compuware.com -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 2:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users In our latest discussions with Oracle, it is my understanding that there is the Named user license and the CPU license. CPU allows an unlimited number of users. Named has a limited number of users. Now, it has always been my personal experience that nobody really knows what a user is. Ask 10 different Oracle personnel what a user is, and you will get 10 different answers. For example, we support a 911 center. An Oracle-based application displays the caller's information on a screen to the call taker. If you look in our database, you will see one user - it is the connection made by the software that displays the caller's info. The app maintains one connection and displays the data on the appropriate screen. Oracle is trying to tell us the the 911 callers are the users. Give me a break! At best, the call takers might be the users. Apparently there are (or were) Term licenses also. See http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_STO61415,00.html Rest assured - as soon as you figure it out, they will change it. Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/20/02 12:30PM Adary - Wow that is not good! Has anyone else encountered this situation? Does the licensing fee have a name? Any indication if it differs between US and non-US licensing? Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:58 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Dennis We operate here on a site license that cover our internal users and servers. About a month ago we talked with oracle about a database that will be connected to our internet site. They come back and said that we need a separate license for this and our regular site license cover only INTERNAL use. You need a separate license if you use the DB VIA internet. I do not know if it is named or CPU or whatever. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 20, 2002 3:43 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users Can anyone provide more details on Web licensing? I asked our manager that negotiates the Oracle licensing and he was only aware of Named and CPU (formerly UPU) licensing for unlimited users. I checked at Oraclestore, and it only shows Named and Processor licensing. If we are missing something, I would like to avoid a nasty licensing surprise. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Karniotis, Stephen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
I don't think it was Oracle telling you that, it was the sales guy trying to get his vacation paid for -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 2:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L In our latest discussions with Oracle, it is my understanding that there is the Named user license and the CPU license. CPU allows an unlimited number of users. Named has a limited number of users. Now, it has always been my personal experience that nobody really knows what a user is. Ask 10 different Oracle personnel what a user is, and you will get 10 different answers. For example, we support a 911 center. An Oracle-based application displays the caller's information on a screen to the call taker. If you look in our database, you will see one user - it is the connection made by the software that displays the caller's info. The app maintains one connection and displays the data on the appropriate screen. Oracle is trying to tell us the the 911 callers are the users. Give me a break! At best, the call takers might be the users. Apparently there are (or were) Term licenses also. See http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_STO61415,00.html Rest assured - as soon as you figure it out, they will change it. Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/20/02 12:30PM Adary - Wow that is not good! Has anyone else encountered this situation? Does the licensing fee have a name? Any indication if it differs between US and non-US licensing? Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:58 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Dennis We operate here on a site license that cover our internal users and servers. About a month ago we talked with oracle about a database that will be connected to our internet site. They come back and said that we need a separate license for this and our regular site license cover only INTERNAL use. You need a separate license if you use the DB VIA internet. I do not know if it is named or CPU or whatever. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 20, 2002 3:43 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users Can anyone provide more details on Web licensing? I asked our manager that negotiates the Oracle licensing and he was only aware of Named and CPU (formerly UPU) licensing for unlimited users. I checked at Oraclestore, and it only shows Named and Processor licensing. If we are missing something, I would like to avoid a nasty licensing surprise. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Grabowy, Chris INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
Title: RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users Maybe it has something to do with whether you post your data to an internet or intranet site. ?? -Original Message- From: Steve McClure [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 1:59 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users Our Oracle rep fully understood that our DB is accessed via our intranet, a large third party network, and the internet. We were only required to purchase CPU based licensing. There was no additional Web licensing fee. After reading this, I am concerned they will be back to discuss more fees. Steve McClure -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Adary - Wow that is not good! Has anyone else encountered this situation? Does the licensing fee have a name? Any indication if it differs between US and non-US licensing? Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:58 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Dennis We operate here on a site license that cover our internal users and servers. About a month ago we talked with oracle about a database that will be connected to our internet site. They come back and said that we need a separate license for this and our regular site license cover only INTERNAL use. You need a separate license if you use the DB VIA internet. I do not know if it is named or CPU or whatever. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steve McClure INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
From following this thread on Oracles pricing scheme I think it is dependent on the day of the week, the phase of the moon, the number of salmon spawning in Alaska and how many days till X-mas. Dave -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 1:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Jay: From past experience, Named Users refers to the users of the application, meaning for you the 911 operators. In the past, users referred to connections to the database. Thus an application may only have one user but several thousand connections. We had this problem when implementing CICS for Oracle on the mainframe. Even Tuxedo on client/server has this issue. These transaction monitors act as gates to the Oracle world. We had to price average usage amount to accommodate our Oracle licensing. Hope this helps. Thank You Stephen P. Karniotis Technical Alliance Manager Compuware Corporation Direct: (248) 865-4350 Mobile: (248) 408-2918 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web:www.compuware.com -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 2:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users In our latest discussions with Oracle, it is my understanding that there is the Named user license and the CPU license. CPU allows an unlimited number of users. Named has a limited number of users. Now, it has always been my personal experience that nobody really knows what a user is. Ask 10 different Oracle personnel what a user is, and you will get 10 different answers. For example, we support a 911 center. An Oracle-based application displays the caller's information on a screen to the call taker. If you look in our database, you will see one user - it is the connection made by the software that displays the caller's info. The app maintains one connection and displays the data on the appropriate screen. Oracle is trying to tell us the the 911 callers are the users. Give me a break! At best, the call takers might be the users. Apparently there are (or were) Term licenses also. See http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_STO61415,00.html Rest assured - as soon as you figure it out, they will change it. Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/20/02 12:30PM Adary - Wow that is not good! Has anyone else encountered this situation? Does the licensing fee have a name? Any indication if it differs between US and non-US licensing? Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:58 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Dennis We operate here on a site license that cover our internal users and servers. About a month ago we talked with oracle about a database that will be connected to our internet site. They come back and said that we need a separate license for this and our regular site license cover only INTERNAL use. You need a separate license if you use the DB VIA internet. I do not know if it is named or CPU or whatever. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 20, 2002 3:43 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users Can anyone provide more details on Web licensing? I asked our manager that negotiates the Oracle licensing and he was only aware of Named and CPU (formerly UPU) licensing for unlimited users. I checked at Oraclestore, and it only shows Named and Processor licensing. If we are missing something, I would like to avoid a nasty licensing surprise. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Karniotis, Stephen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
Can you immagine living in a city of 1.6 million . you would have to have 1.6 million licenses because each one of you is a potential caller of 911 Not even Oracle is THAT greedy. Think, user = software user. i.e. the call takers, not the call makers. -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 2:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I don't think it was Oracle telling you that, it was the sales guy trying to get his vacation paid for -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 2:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L In our latest discussions with Oracle, it is my understanding that there is the Named user license and the CPU license. CPU allows an unlimited number of users. Named has a limited number of users. Now, it has always been my personal experience that nobody really knows what a user is. Ask 10 different Oracle personnel what a user is, and you will get 10 different answers. For example, we support a 911 center. An Oracle-based application displays the caller's information on a screen to the call taker. If you look in our database, you will see one user - it is the connection made by the software that displays the caller's info. The app maintains one connection and displays the data on the appropriate screen. Oracle is trying to tell us the the 911 callers are the users. Give me a break! At best, the call takers might be the users. Apparently there are (or were) Term licenses also. See http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_STO61415,00.html Rest assured - as soon as you figure it out, they will change it. Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/20/02 12:30PM Adary - Wow that is not good! Has anyone else encountered this situation? Does the licensing fee have a name? Any indication if it differs between US and non-US licensing? Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:58 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Dennis We operate here on a site license that cover our internal users and servers. About a month ago we talked with oracle about a database that will be connected to our internet site. They come back and said that we need a separate license for this and our regular site license cover only INTERNAL use. You need a separate license if you use the DB VIA internet. I do not know if it is named or CPU or whatever. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 20, 2002 3:43 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users Can anyone provide more details on Web licensing? I asked our manager that negotiates the Oracle licensing and he was only aware of Named and CPU (formerly UPU) licensing for unlimited users. I checked at Oraclestore, and it only shows Named and Processor licensing. If we are missing something, I would like to avoid a nasty licensing surprise. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Grabowy, Chris INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Lange INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name
Re:RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
Chris, From Oracle's store site: Named User: is defined as an individual authorized by you to use the programs which are installed on a single server or multiple servers, regardless of whether the individual is actively using the programs at any given time. A non human operated device will be counted as a Named User in addition to all individuals authorized to use the programs, if such devices can access the programs. If multiplexing hardware or software (e.g., a TP monitor or a web server product) is used, this number must be measured at the multiplexing front end. Now with your 911 center, if your using a backend processor to refresh the screens then all of your screens are in fact users. I know, kind of overkill, but we've had to count each and every bar code scanner we had on the assembly line as each one is a user. End result, we went with CPU licensing. Fewer items to count (CPU's) and ended up cheaper as well. Nothing like the bear taking a large hunk out of your back side! OH, that HURTS! Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Grabowy; Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/20/2002 12:03 PM I don't think it was Oracle telling you that, it was the sales guy trying to get his vacation paid for -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 2:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L In our latest discussions with Oracle, it is my understanding that there is the Named user license and the CPU license. CPU allows an unlimited number of users. Named has a limited number of users. Now, it has always been my personal experience that nobody really knows what a user is. Ask 10 different Oracle personnel what a user is, and you will get 10 different answers. For example, we support a 911 center. An Oracle-based application displays the caller's information on a screen to the call taker. If you look in our database, you will see one user - it is the connection made by the software that displays the caller's info. The app maintains one connection and displays the data on the appropriate screen. Oracle is trying to tell us the the 911 callers are the users. Give me a break! At best, the call takers might be the users. Apparently there are (or were) Term licenses also. See http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_STO61415,00.html Rest assured - as soon as you figure it out, they will change it. Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/20/02 12:30PM Adary - Wow that is not good! Has anyone else encountered this situation? Does the licensing fee have a name? Any indication if it differs between US and non-US licensing? Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:58 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Dennis We operate here on a site license that cover our internal users and servers. About a month ago we talked with oracle about a database that will be connected to our internet site. They come back and said that we need a separate license for this and our regular site license cover only INTERNAL use. You need a separate license if you use the DB VIA internet. I do not know if it is named or CPU or whatever. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 20, 2002 3:43 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users Can anyone provide more details on Web licensing? I asked our manager that negotiates the Oracle licensing and he was only aware of Named and CPU (formerly UPU) licensing for unlimited users. I checked at Oraclestore, and it only shows Named and Processor licensing. If we are missing something, I would like to avoid a nasty licensing surprise. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Grabowy, Chris INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
More likely how close Uncle Larry is to Bill Gates in the World's Richest Man contest. Jerry Whittle ACIFICS DBA NCI Information Systems Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 618-622-4145 -Original Message- From: Farnsworth, Dave [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] From following this thread on Oracles pricing scheme I think it is dependent on the day of the week, the phase of the moon, the number of salmon spawning in Alaska and how many days till X-mas. Dave -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Whittle Jerome Contr NCI INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
Actually this came up during our license evaluation as well. We tried to go with named users, but there was a catch. We process transactions from a sort of clearinghouse. That clearinghouse is a single network connection, and we process transactions with a small number of Oracle sessions. From my perspective, we had 5 sessions performing OLTP from a single source. From Oracle's perspective a user has to be determined in the broadest scope possible (That is straight from the license agreement). The result was that since our clearinghouse was intermittently connected to 50,000 pharmacies, we would require over 50,000 named users. Steve McClure -Original Message- Chris Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 12:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I don't think it was Oracle telling you that, it was the sales guy trying to get his vacation paid for -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 2:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L In our latest discussions with Oracle, it is my understanding that there is the Named user license and the CPU license. CPU allows an unlimited number of users. Named has a limited number of users. Now, it has always been my personal experience that nobody really knows what a user is. Ask 10 different Oracle personnel what a user is, and you will get 10 different answers. For example, we support a 911 center. An Oracle-based application displays the caller's information on a screen to the call taker. If you look in our database, you will see one user - it is the connection made by the software that displays the caller's info. The app maintains one connection and displays the data on the appropriate screen. Oracle is trying to tell us the the 911 callers are the users. Give me a break! At best, the call takers might be the users. Apparently there are (or were) Term licenses also. See http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_STO61415,00.html Rest assured - as soon as you figure it out, they will change it. Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/20/02 12:30PM Adary - Wow that is not good! Has anyone else encountered this situation? Does the licensing fee have a name? Any indication if it differs between US and non-US licensing? Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:58 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Dennis We operate here on a site license that cover our internal users and servers. About a month ago we talked with oracle about a database that will be connected to our internet site. They come back and said that we need a separate license for this and our regular site license cover only INTERNAL use. You need a separate license if you use the DB VIA internet. I do not know if it is named or CPU or whatever. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 20, 2002 3:43 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users Can anyone provide more details on Web licensing? I asked our manager that negotiates the Oracle licensing and he was only aware of Named and CPU (formerly UPU) licensing for unlimited users. I checked at Oraclestore, and it only shows Named and Processor licensing. If we are missing something, I would like to avoid a nasty licensing surprise. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Grabowy, Chris INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steve McClure INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858
Re:RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
Dave, I think that's the number of days since X-mas of the sales droid's birth year. Otherwise how do you explain the variability of their quotes? :-) Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Farnsworth; Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/20/2002 12:19 PM From following this thread on Oracles pricing scheme I think it is dependent on the day of the week, the phase of the moon, the number of salmon spawning in Alaska and how many days till X-mas. Dave -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 1:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Jay: From past experience, Named Users refers to the users of the application, meaning for you the 911 operators. In the past, users referred to connections to the database. Thus an application may only have one user but several thousand connections. We had this problem when implementing CICS for Oracle on the mainframe. Even Tuxedo on client/server has this issue. These transaction monitors act as gates to the Oracle world. We had to price average usage amount to accommodate our Oracle licensing. Hope this helps. Thank You Stephen P. Karniotis Technical Alliance Manager Compuware Corporation Direct: (248) 865-4350 Mobile: (248) 408-2918 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web:www.compuware.com -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 2:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L In our latest discussions with Oracle, it is my understanding that there is the Named user license and the CPU license. CPU allows an unlimited number of users. Named has a limited number of users. Now, it has always been my personal experience that nobody really knows what a user is. Ask 10 different Oracle personnel what a user is, and you will get 10 different answers. For example, we support a 911 center. An Oracle-based application displays the caller's information on a screen to the call taker. If you look in our database, you will see one user - it is the connection made by the software that displays the caller's info. The app maintains one connection and displays the data on the appropriate screen. Oracle is trying to tell us the the 911 callers are the users. Give me a break! At best, the call takers might be the users. Apparently there are (or were) Term licenses also. See http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_STO61415,00.html Rest assured - as soon as you figure it out, they will change it. Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/20/02 12:30PM Adary - Wow that is not good! Has anyone else encountered this situation? Does the licensing fee have a name? Any indication if it differs between US and non-US licensing? Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:58 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Dennis We operate here on a site license that cover our internal users and servers. About a month ago we talked with oracle about a database that will be connected to our internet site. They come back and said that we need a separate license for this and our regular site license cover only INTERNAL use. You need a separate license if you use the DB VIA internet. I do not know if it is named or CPU or whatever. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 20, 2002 3:43 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users Can anyone provide more details on Web licensing? I asked our manager that negotiates the Oracle licensing and he was only aware of Named and CPU (formerly UPU) licensing for unlimited users. I checked at Oraclestore, and it only shows Named and Processor licensing. If we are missing something, I would like to avoid a nasty licensing surprise. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Karniotis, Stephen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
OH YEAH? Wait til Unca Lar is in charge of all biometric data for every human on earth. 6.2 Billion users. He's gonna catch up to Bill Gates if he has to destroy civil liberties world wide to do it. Wallet envy. Bambi. -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 2:28 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Can you immagine living in a city of 1.6 million . you would have to have 1.6 million licenses because each one of you is a potential caller of 911 Not even Oracle is THAT greedy. Think, user = software user. i.e. the call takers, not the call makers. -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 2:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I don't think it was Oracle telling you that, it was the sales guy trying to get his vacation paid for -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 2:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L In our latest discussions with Oracle, it is my understanding that there is the Named user license and the CPU license. CPU allows an unlimited number of users. Named has a limited number of users. Now, it has always been my personal experience that nobody really knows what a user is. Ask 10 different Oracle personnel what a user is, and you will get 10 different answers. For example, we support a 911 center. An Oracle-based application displays the caller's information on a screen to the call taker. If you look in our database, you will see one user - it is the connection made by the software that displays the caller's info. The app maintains one connection and displays the data on the appropriate screen. Oracle is trying to tell us the the 911 callers are the users. Give me a break! At best, the call takers might be the users. Apparently there are (or were) Term licenses also. See http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_STO61415,00.html Rest assured - as soon as you figure it out, they will change it. Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/20/02 12:30PM Adary - Wow that is not good! Has anyone else encountered this situation? Does the licensing fee have a name? Any indication if it differs between US and non-US licensing? Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:58 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Dennis We operate here on a site license that cover our internal users and servers. About a month ago we talked with oracle about a database that will be connected to our internet site. They come back and said that we need a separate license for this and our regular site license cover only INTERNAL use. You need a separate license if you use the DB VIA internet. I do not know if it is named or CPU or whatever. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 20, 2002 3:43 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users Can anyone provide more details on Web licensing? I asked our manager that negotiates the Oracle licensing and he was only aware of Named and CPU (formerly UPU) licensing for unlimited users. I checked at Oraclestore, and it only shows Named and Processor licensing. If we are missing something, I would like to avoid a nasty licensing surprise. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Grabowy, Chris INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kevin Lange INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
For one last 2 cents worth . same for my last employer. Even though there were only 4 entry stations into the Radiation Protected Area of the Nuclear Plant, all employees who were eligible to enter that area was considered a user. Instead of 4, we had to have 1000 licenses. At least Oracle is consistent in their greed... -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 3:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Actually this came up during our license evaluation as well. We tried to go with named users, but there was a catch. We process transactions from a sort of clearinghouse. That clearinghouse is a single network connection, and we process transactions with a small number of Oracle sessions. From my perspective, we had 5 sessions performing OLTP from a single source. From Oracle's perspective a user has to be determined in the broadest scope possible (That is straight from the license agreement). The result was that since our clearinghouse was intermittently connected to 50,000 pharmacies, we would require over 50,000 named users. Steve McClure -Original Message- Chris Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 12:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I don't think it was Oracle telling you that, it was the sales guy trying to get his vacation paid for -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 2:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L In our latest discussions with Oracle, it is my understanding that there is the Named user license and the CPU license. CPU allows an unlimited number of users. Named has a limited number of users. Now, it has always been my personal experience that nobody really knows what a user is. Ask 10 different Oracle personnel what a user is, and you will get 10 different answers. For example, we support a 911 center. An Oracle-based application displays the caller's information on a screen to the call taker. If you look in our database, you will see one user - it is the connection made by the software that displays the caller's info. The app maintains one connection and displays the data on the appropriate screen. Oracle is trying to tell us the the 911 callers are the users. Give me a break! At best, the call takers might be the users. Apparently there are (or were) Term licenses also. See http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_STO61415,00.html Rest assured - as soon as you figure it out, they will change it. Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/20/02 12:30PM Adary - Wow that is not good! Has anyone else encountered this situation? Does the licensing fee have a name? Any indication if it differs between US and non-US licensing? Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:58 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Dennis We operate here on a site license that cover our internal users and servers. About a month ago we talked with oracle about a database that will be connected to our internet site. They come back and said that we need a separate license for this and our regular site license cover only INTERNAL use. You need a separate license if you use the DB VIA internet. I do not know if it is named or CPU or whatever. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 20, 2002 3:43 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users Can anyone provide more details on Web licensing? I asked our manager that negotiates the Oracle licensing and he was only aware of Named and CPU (formerly UPU) licensing for unlimited users. I checked at Oraclestore, and it only shows Named and Processor licensing. If we are missing something, I would like to avoid a nasty licensing surprise. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Grabowy, Chris INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
Nuclear Plant? Don't say Larry didn't warn you: The Programs are not intended for use in any nuclear, aviation, mass transit, medical, or other inherently dangerous applications. It shall be the licensee's responsibility to take all appropriate fail-safe, backup, redundancy, and other measures to ensure the safe use of such applications if the Programs are used for such purposes, and Oracle Corporation disclaims liability for any damages caused by such use of the Programs. From Title and Copyright Information for Getting to Know 8i (8.1.6) S- On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Kevin Lange wrote: For one last 2 cents worth . same for my last employer. Even though there were only 4 entry stations into the Radiation Protected Area of the Nuclear Plant, all employees who were eligible to enter that area was considered a user. Instead of 4, we had to have 1000 licenses. At least Oracle is consistent in their greed... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steve Rospo INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
We have been asked to gather statistics on the number of clients using Oracle. This is being done to determine if we have sufficient licensing. We have about 100 instances to monitor. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on what Concurrent users might mean to the majority of people? We have both Oracle 7 and Oracle 8. Ron Smith DBA Kerr-McGee Corp -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Smith, Ron L. INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
Ron, It is funny you mentioned this, just last week our corporate office asked us to run a script...provided by Oracle...to gather user/session information to determine if we have enough licences. The thing that I found odd, was that they wanted this information from every single database including all development, test, stress, production, and crash burn. I have never heard of Oracle doing this before...we thought maybe management was trying to determine if we have enough work to do :) I am glad to hear that we are not the only ones being asked for this information. Below are the requirements we were asked to follow. 1. The DBA's must provide the 5 critical pieces of info( for each database) necessary in order to start our licensing auditing: Server name (must be in DNS) Database Name Connect String Oracle Version Application Type 2. DBA's must create a user LMS on each database to be monitored. The enclosed script must be run in order to create a LMS user. We will modify our TNSNAMES.ora to remotely access this information from the information on the OSW worksheet that is returned. 3. DBA's must add this process to create the LMS user give Corporate access to monitor new databases on a on-going basis in order for RRD to comply with Oracle licensing agreements. Traci L. Rebman Oracle Database Administrator R.R. Donnelley Sons Financial Smith, Ron L. To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: om Subject: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] om 02/19/2002 02:14 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L We have been asked to gather statistics on the number of clients using Oracle. This is being done to determine if we have sufficient licensing. We have about 100 instances to monitor. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on what Concurrent users might mean to the majority of people? We have both Oracle 7 and Oracle 8. Ron Smith DBA Kerr-McGee Corp -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Smith, Ron L. INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
I suggest you talk to your Oracle rep before getting started. 'Concurrent' licensing is no longer a valid licensing model for Oracle. They sell by named user or per CPU. Their criteria for making you use the CPU licensing is rather broad. Just went through a licensing audit here. Lots o fun, let me tell you. While on the subject, does anyone have a good app/spreadsheet or template of some kind for tracking Oracle license use? It needs to track EE and Std versions, named and CPU licenses, servers, databases on the servers, users on the databases. I've cobbled my own stuff together from bits of string and baling wire, but I'm getting tired of messing with modifying SQL everytime I want a different view of the data, or to see if I can squeeze another app in without licensing more users. Thanks, Jared Smith, Ron L. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/19/02 11:14 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users We have been asked to gather statistics on the number of clients using Oracle. This is being done to determine if we have sufficient licensing. We have about 100 instances to monitor. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on what Concurrent users might mean to the majority of people? We have both Oracle 7 and Oracle 8. Ron Smith DBA Kerr-McGee Corp -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Smith, Ron L. INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
I agree with Mr. Still, Our new project is licensed CPU based . The cpu count is important for the server. So that distributed databases is not preferable anymore for country wide applications. As Oracle says , this is a new feature of WEB WORLD. If your applications are client -server then the rules may change. Bunyamin Karadeniz - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 10:00 PM I suggest you talk to your Oracle rep before getting started. 'Concurrent' licensing is no longer a valid licensing model for Oracle. They sell by named user or per CPU. Their criteria for making you use the CPU licensing is rather broad. Just went through a licensing audit here. Lots o fun, let me tell you. While on the subject, does anyone have a good app/spreadsheet or template of some kind for tracking Oracle license use? It needs to track EE and Std versions, named and CPU licenses, servers, databases on the servers, users on the databases. I've cobbled my own stuff together from bits of string and baling wire, but I'm getting tired of messing with modifying SQL everytime I want a different view of the data, or to see if I can squeeze another app in without licensing more users. Thanks, Jared Smith, Ron L. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/19/02 11:14 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users We have been asked to gather statistics on the number of clients using Oracle. This is being done to determine if we have sufficient licensing. We have about 100 instances to monitor. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on what Concurrent users might mean to the majority of people? We have both Oracle 7 and Oracle 8. Ron Smith DBA Kerr-McGee Corp -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Smith, Ron L. INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Bunyamin K. Karadeniz INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
Smith, Ron L. wrote: We have been asked to gather statistics on the number of clients using Oracle. This is being done to determine if we have sufficient licensing. We have about 100 instances to monitor. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on what Concurrent users might mean to the majority of people? We have both Oracle 7 and Oracle 8. Ron Smith DBA Kerr-McGee Corp Well, I have just been working on this for one of my customers last week. The obvious thing is to query V$SESSION at regular intervals (dbms_job can help) and what you can do is store the result through a database link to a single instance. Where it was tricky was that we wanted to identify 'system' processes (easy, except that job processes are marked as 'USER', which is debatable), and (that's where the snag is) processes which are the results of a connection through a database link. The logic is that a database link is initiated by a 'normal' connection - for which the full-blown licence is already paid. So they should not exactly count as much as regular connection; and if this is not a good argument, then it is probably possible to reduce their number by shifting around applications. Ultimately we could apply Larry's favorite concept of 'single instance' (anyway I have always found DB links messy). My trouble was that nothing, but human knowledge, can tell whether the connection comes from a database link or is genuine (if somebody has a way, please share !). All the user information (machine, program, module, action ...) comes from the initial connection and is propagated. I have solved this (not fully satisfactorily) by having a table automatically inserted with unknown (machine, program) pairs and manually updated to say 'If we see this program on this database, then it comes from a database link' - or 'anything coming from this machine must come from a database link'. Added something for connection from HTTP servers, although I doubt that those will be spontaneously discussed during the negotiation. -- Regards, Stephane Faroult Oriole Ltd -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stephane Faroult INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
you need to be careful if you are also using databases whose contents appear on the web, as Oracle will want you to use a web license (extremely expensive) even if the data is not directly accessed but appears on the web in static pages generated from the Oracle database. --- Stephane Faroult [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Smith, Ron L. wrote: We have been asked to gather statistics on the number of clients using Oracle. This is being done to determine if we have sufficient licensing. We have about 100 instances to monitor. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on what Concurrent users might mean to the majority of people? We have both Oracle 7 and Oracle 8. Ron Smith DBA Kerr-McGee Corp Well, I have just been working on this for one of my customers last week. The obvious thing is to query V$SESSION at regular intervals (dbms_job can help) and what you can do is store the result through a database link to a single instance. Where it was tricky was that we wanted to identify 'system' processes (easy, except that job processes are marked as 'USER', which is debatable), and (that's where the snag is) processes which are the results of a connection through a database link. The logic is that a database link is initiated by a 'normal' connection - for which the full-blown licence is already paid. So they should not exactly count as much as regular connection; and if this is not a good argument, then it is probably possible to reduce their number by shifting around applications. Ultimately we could apply Larry's favorite concept of 'single instance' (anyway I have always found DB links messy). My trouble was that nothing, but human knowledge, can tell whether the connection comes from a database link or is genuine (if somebody has a way, please share !). All the user information (machine, program, module, action ...) comes from the initial connection and is propagated. I have solved this (not fully satisfactorily) by having a table automatically inserted with unknown (machine, program) pairs and manually updated to say 'If we see this program on this database, then it comes from a database link' - or 'anything coming from this machine must come from a database link'. Added something for connection from HTTP servers, although I doubt that those will be spontaneously discussed during the negotiation. -- Regards, Stephane Faroult Oriole Ltd -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stephane Faroult INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
Thanks for the info! Ron -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 2:41 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Smith, Ron L. wrote: We have been asked to gather statistics on the number of clients using Oracle. This is being done to determine if we have sufficient licensing. We have about 100 instances to monitor. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on what Concurrent users might mean to the majority of people? We have both Oracle 7 and Oracle 8. Ron Smith DBA Kerr-McGee Corp Well, I have just been working on this for one of my customers last week. The obvious thing is to query V$SESSION at regular intervals (dbms_job can help) and what you can do is store the result through a database link to a single instance. Where it was tricky was that we wanted to identify 'system' processes (easy, except that job processes are marked as 'USER', which is debatable), and (that's where the snag is) processes which are the results of a connection through a database link. The logic is that a database link is initiated by a 'normal' connection - for which the full-blown licence is already paid. So they should not exactly count as much as regular connection; and if this is not a good argument, then it is probably possible to reduce their number by shifting around applications. Ultimately we could apply Larry's favorite concept of 'single instance' (anyway I have always found DB links messy). My trouble was that nothing, but human knowledge, can tell whether the connection comes from a database link or is genuine (if somebody has a way, please share !). All the user information (machine, program, module, action ...) comes from the initial connection and is propagated. I have solved this (not fully satisfactorily) by having a table automatically inserted with unknown (machine, program) pairs and manually updated to say 'If we see this program on this database, then it comes from a database link' - or 'anything coming from this machine must come from a database link'. Added something for connection from HTTP servers, although I doubt that those will be spontaneously discussed during the negotiation. -- Regards, Stephane Faroult Oriole Ltd -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stephane Faroult INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Smith, Ron L. INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
Querying v$session will not work for many applications. SAP and Agile ( mfg app ) come to mind. They each use their own integrated app server. Hundreds of users may make use of the database via 20 connected sessions. These are databases that legitimately use Named user licenses: they don't require a CPU license. By querying v$session it's also difficult to catch occasionaly users that none the less must be licensed. Jared Stephane Faroult [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/19/02 12:40 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users Smith, Ron L. wrote: We have been asked to gather statistics on the number of clients using Oracle. This is being done to determine if we have sufficient licensing. We have about 100 instances to monitor. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on what Concurrent users might mean to the majority of people? We have both Oracle 7 and Oracle 8. Ron Smith DBA Kerr-McGee Corp Well, I have just been working on this for one of my customers last week. The obvious thing is to query V$SESSION at regular intervals (dbms_job can help) and what you can do is store the result through a database link to a single instance. Where it was tricky was that we wanted to identify 'system' processes (easy, except that job processes are marked as 'USER', which is debatable), and (that's where the snag is) processes which are the results of a connection through a database link. The logic is that a database link is initiated by a 'normal' connection - for which the full-blown licence is already paid. So they should not exactly count as much as regular connection; and if this is not a good argument, then it is probably possible to reduce their number by shifting around applications. Ultimately we could apply Larry's favorite concept of 'single instance' (anyway I have always found DB links messy). My trouble was that nothing, but human knowledge, can tell whether the connection comes from a database link or is genuine (if somebody has a way, please share !). All the user information (machine, program, module, action ...) comes from the initial connection and is propagated. I have solved this (not fully satisfactorily) by having a table automatically inserted with unknown (machine, program) pairs and manually updated to say 'If we see this program on this database, then it comes from a database link' - or 'anything coming from this machine must come from a database link'. Added something for connection from HTTP servers, although I doubt that those will be spontaneously discussed during the negotiation. -- Regards, Stephane Faroult Oriole Ltd -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stephane Faroult INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
They may also require this for databases that feed another system. A small app ( 60 users ) we're installing here would require a CPU license ($60k) if we feed data to SAP. As someone else has already pointed out, so much for distributed computing. Jared Rachel Carmichael [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/19/02 01:04 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users you need to be careful if you are also using databases whose contents appear on the web, as Oracle will want you to use a web license (extremely expensive) even if the data is not directly accessed but appears on the web in static pages generated from the Oracle database. --- Stephane Faroult [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Smith, Ron L. wrote: We have been asked to gather statistics on the number of clients using Oracle. This is being done to determine if we have sufficient licensing. We have about 100 instances to monitor. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on what Concurrent users might mean to the majority of people? We have both Oracle 7 and Oracle 8. Ron Smith DBA Kerr-McGee Corp Well, I have just been working on this for one of my customers last week. The obvious thing is to query V$SESSION at regular intervals (dbms_job can help) and what you can do is store the result through a database link to a single instance. Where it was tricky was that we wanted to identify 'system' processes (easy, except that job processes are marked as 'USER', which is debatable), and (that's where the snag is) processes which are the results of a connection through a database link. The logic is that a database link is initiated by a 'normal' connection - for which the full-blown licence is already paid. So they should not exactly count as much as regular connection; and if this is not a good argument, then it is probably possible to reduce their number by shifting around applications. Ultimately we could apply Larry's favorite concept of 'single instance' (anyway I have always found DB links messy). My trouble was that nothing, but human knowledge, can tell whether the connection comes from a database link or is genuine (if somebody has a way, please share !). All the user information (machine, program, module, action ...) comes from the initial connection and is propagated. I have solved this (not fully satisfactorily) by having a table automatically inserted with unknown (machine, program) pairs and manually updated to say 'If we see this program on this database, then it comes from a database link' - or 'anything coming from this machine must come from a database link'. Added something for connection from HTTP servers, although I doubt that those will be spontaneously discussed during the negotiation. -- Regards, Stephane Faroult Oriole Ltd -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stephane Faroult INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
Rachel - By Web license, do you mean the unlimited-user CPU-based licensing? Thanks. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 3:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L you need to be careful if you are also using databases whose contents appear on the web, as Oracle will want you to use a web license (extremely expensive) even if the data is not directly accessed but appears on the web in static pages generated from the Oracle database. --- Stephane Faroult [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Smith, Ron L. wrote: We have been asked to gather statistics on the number of clients using Oracle. This is being done to determine if we have sufficient licensing. We have about 100 instances to monitor. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on what Concurrent users might mean to the majority of people? We have both Oracle 7 and Oracle 8. Ron Smith DBA Kerr-McGee Corp Well, I have just been working on this for one of my customers last week. The obvious thing is to query V$SESSION at regular intervals (dbms_job can help) and what you can do is store the result through a database link to a single instance. Where it was tricky was that we wanted to identify 'system' processes (easy, except that job processes are marked as 'USER', which is debatable), and (that's where the snag is) processes which are the results of a connection through a database link. The logic is that a database link is initiated by a 'normal' connection - for which the full-blown licence is already paid. So they should not exactly count as much as regular connection; and if this is not a good argument, then it is probably possible to reduce their number by shifting around applications. Ultimately we could apply Larry's favorite concept of 'single instance' (anyway I have always found DB links messy). My trouble was that nothing, but human knowledge, can tell whether the connection comes from a database link or is genuine (if somebody has a way, please share !). All the user information (machine, program, module, action ...) comes from the initial connection and is propagated. I have solved this (not fully satisfactorily) by having a table automatically inserted with unknown (machine, program) pairs and manually updated to say 'If we see this program on this database, then it comes from a database link' - or 'anything coming from this machine must come from a database link'. Added something for connection from HTTP servers, although I doubt that those will be spontaneously discussed during the negotiation. -- Regards, Stephane Faroult Oriole Ltd -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stephane Faroult INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
that's not the terminology they used when talkikng about it with me. the sales rep specifically said web license which led me to believe it was another form of pricing. --- DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rachel - By Web license, do you mean the unlimited-user CPU-based licensing? Thanks. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 3:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L you need to be careful if you are also using databases whose contents appear on the web, as Oracle will want you to use a web license (extremely expensive) even if the data is not directly accessed but appears on the web in static pages generated from the Oracle database. --- Stephane Faroult [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Smith, Ron L. wrote: We have been asked to gather statistics on the number of clients using Oracle. This is being done to determine if we have sufficient licensing. We have about 100 instances to monitor. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on what Concurrent users might mean to the majority of people? We have both Oracle 7 and Oracle 8. Ron Smith DBA Kerr-McGee Corp Well, I have just been working on this for one of my customers last week. The obvious thing is to query V$SESSION at regular intervals (dbms_job can help) and what you can do is store the result through a database link to a single instance. Where it was tricky was that we wanted to identify 'system' processes (easy, except that job processes are marked as 'USER', which is debatable), and (that's where the snag is) processes which are the results of a connection through a database link. The logic is that a database link is initiated by a 'normal' connection - for which the full-blown licence is already paid. So they should not exactly count as much as regular connection; and if this is not a good argument, then it is probably possible to reduce their number by shifting around applications. Ultimately we could apply Larry's favorite concept of 'single instance' (anyway I have always found DB links messy). My trouble was that nothing, but human knowledge, can tell whether the connection comes from a database link or is genuine (if somebody has a way, please share !). All the user information (machine, program, module, action ...) comes from the initial connection and is propagated. I have solved this (not fully satisfactorily) by having a table automatically inserted with unknown (machine, program) pairs and manually updated to say 'If we see this program on this database, then it comes from a database link' - or 'anything coming from this machine must come from a database link'. Added something for connection from HTTP servers, although I doubt that those will be spontaneously discussed during the negotiation. -- Regards, Stephane Faroult Oriole Ltd -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stephane Faroult INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
Our site just went through this, and Oracle determined that we needed to use CPU licenses. We actually replaced our 4 cpu DG Aviion with a new Sunfire 3800 with two sparc3 processors. The money saved in Oracle licensing paid for the new equipment. They simply came in and told us that the licensing agreement we had worked out less than a year ago was out the window, and would not cover our configuration. My personal take on it is that Oracle has said Enough with being price competitive with SQL Server. We have a superior product, and should cost substantially more. One thing we did learn was that Oracle will not credit any of your previous license payments. So we were able to retain them. We have 800 processor units that can be used to run a database or a forms/reports server. I don't know how or if the concurrent user licenses would be retained. Steve McClure -Original Message- WILLIAMS Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 2:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Rachel - By Web license, do you mean the unlimited-user CPU-based licensing? Thanks. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 3:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L you need to be careful if you are also using databases whose contents appear on the web, as Oracle will want you to use a web license (extremely expensive) even if the data is not directly accessed but appears on the web in static pages generated from the Oracle database. --- Stephane Faroult [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Smith, Ron L. wrote: We have been asked to gather statistics on the number of clients using Oracle. This is being done to determine if we have sufficient licensing. We have about 100 instances to monitor. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on what Concurrent users might mean to the majority of people? We have both Oracle 7 and Oracle 8. Ron Smith DBA Kerr-McGee Corp Well, I have just been working on this for one of my customers last week. The obvious thing is to query V$SESSION at regular intervals (dbms_job can help) and what you can do is store the result through a database link to a single instance. Where it was tricky was that we wanted to identify 'system' processes (easy, except that job processes are marked as 'USER', which is debatable), and (that's where the snag is) processes which are the results of a connection through a database link. The logic is that a database link is initiated by a 'normal' connection - for which the full-blown licence is already paid. So they should not exactly count as much as regular connection; and if this is not a good argument, then it is probably possible to reduce their number by shifting around applications. Ultimately we could apply Larry's favorite concept of 'single instance' (anyway I have always found DB links messy). My trouble was that nothing, but human knowledge, can tell whether the connection comes from a database link or is genuine (if somebody has a way, please share !). All the user information (machine, program, module, action ...) comes from the initial connection and is propagated. I have solved this (not fully satisfactorily) by having a table automatically inserted with unknown (machine, program) pairs and manually updated to say 'If we see this program on this database, then it comes from a database link' - or 'anything coming from this machine must come from a database link'. Added something for connection from HTTP servers, although I doubt that those will be spontaneously discussed during the negotiation. -- Regards, Stephane Faroult Oriole Ltd -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stephane Faroult INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
Title: RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users I too went through this mess (twice). A CPU license gets you unlimited. If it's on the web, they don't like the idea of using an application server that utilizes one connection with internal login/logout capability/security. Why twice? Second time, management and developers thought they could get around pricing. Anything else is to pad the sales commision. -Original Message- From: Rachel Carmichael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 8:03 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users that's not the terminology they used when talkikng about it with me. the sales rep specifically said web license which led me to believe it was another form of pricing. --- DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rachel - By Web license, do you mean the unlimited-user CPU-based licensing? Thanks. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 3:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L you need to be careful if you are also using databases whose contents appear on the web, as Oracle will want you to use a web license (extremely expensive) even if the data is not directly accessed but appears on the web in static pages generated from the Oracle database. --- Stephane Faroult [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Smith, Ron L. wrote: We have been asked to gather statistics on the number of clients using Oracle. This is being done to determine if we have sufficient licensing. We have about 100 instances to monitor. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on what Concurrent users might mean to the majority of people? We have both Oracle 7 and Oracle 8. Ron Smith DBA Kerr-McGee Corp Well, I have just been working on this for one of my customers last week. The obvious thing is to query V$SESSION at regular intervals (dbms_job can help) and what you can do is store the result through a database link to a single instance. Where it was tricky was that we wanted to identify 'system' processes (easy, except that job processes are marked as 'USER', which is debatable), and (that's where the snag is) processes which are the results of a connection through a database link. The logic is that a database link is initiated by a 'normal' connection - for which the full-blown licence is already paid. So they should not exactly count as much as regular connection; and if this is not a good argument, then it is probably possible to reduce their number by shifting around applications. Ultimately we could apply Larry's favorite concept of 'single instance' (anyway I have always found DB links messy). My trouble was that nothing, but human knowledge, can tell whether the connection comes from a database link or is genuine (if somebody has a way, please share !). All the user information (machine, program, module, action ...) comes from the initial connection and is propagated. I have solved this (not fully satisfactorily) by having a table automatically inserted with unknown (machine, program) pairs and manually updated to say 'If we see this program on this database, then it comes from a database link' - or 'anything coming from this machine must come from a database link'. Added something for connection from HTTP servers, although I doubt that those will be spontaneously discussed during the negotiation. -- Regards, Stephane Faroult Oriole Ltd -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Stephane Faroult INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing
Re: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
While we are on the topic of oracle licensing, can someone help to clear up some doubts on named user licensing that I have? We have an existing 5-named user license for a small oracle 8i (8.1.5) database we have, but right now, it seems to be restricting the number of user sessions to 5 sessions even though the sessions are all using the same userid. Is this how the named user license is supposed to work? I was under the impression that the named user license was for restricting the number of users which you can create for a database and not the number of sessions. Or am I missing out on some settings/parameters to be defined? Regards, Leo -Original Message- Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:00:30 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] I suggest you talk to your Oracle rep before getting started. 'Concurrent' licensing is no longer a valid licensing model for Oracle. They sell by named user or per CPU. Their criteria for making you use the CPU licensing is rather broad. Just went through a licensing audit here. Lots o fun, let me tell you. While on the subject, does anyone have a good app/spreadsheet or template of some kind for tracking Oracle license use? It needs to track EE and Std versions, named and CPU licenses, servers, databases on the servers, users on the databases. I've cobbled my own stuff together from bits of string and baling wire, but I'm getting tired of messing with modifying SQL everytime I want a different view of the data, or to see if I can squeeze another app in without licensing more users. Thanks, Jared Smith, Ron L. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/19/02 11:14 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users We have been asked to gather statistics on the number of clients using Oracle. This is being done to determine if we have sufficient licensing. We have about 100 instances to monitor. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on what Concurrent users might mean to the majority of people? We have both Oracle 7 and Oracle 8. Ron Smith DBA Kerr-McGee Corp -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Smith, Ron L. INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kwek Li Gek INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
While we are on the topic of oracle licensing, can someone help to clear up some doubts on named user licensing that I have? We have an existing 5-named user license for a small oracle 8i (8.1.5) database we have, but right now, it seems to be restricting the number of user sessions to 5 sessions even though the sessions are all using the same userid. Is this how the named user license is supposed to work? I was under the impression that the named user license was for restricting the number of users which you can create for a database and not the number of sessions. Or am I missing out on some settings/parameters to be defined? Regards, Leo -Original Message- Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:00:30 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] I suggest you talk to your Oracle rep before getting started. 'Concurrent' licensing is no longer a valid licensing model for Oracle. They sell by named user or per CPU. Their criteria for making you use the CPU licensing is rather broad. Just went through a licensing audit here. Lots o fun, let me tell you. While on the subject, does anyone have a good app/spreadsheet or template of some kind for tracking Oracle license use? It needs to track EE and Std versions, named and CPU licenses, servers, databases on the servers, users on the databases. I've cobbled my own stuff together from bits of string and baling wire, but I'm getting tired of messing with modifying SQL everytime I want a different view of the data, or to see if I can squeeze another app in without licensing more users. Thanks, Jared Smith, Ron L. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/19/02 11:14 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users We have been asked to gather statistics on the number of clients using Oracle. This is being done to determine if we have sufficient licensing. We have about 100 instances to monitor. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on what Concurrent users might mean to the majority of people? We have both Oracle 7 and Oracle 8. Ron Smith DBA Kerr-McGee Corp -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Smith, Ron L. INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kwek Li Gek INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users
Leo, The named user license is concurrent per session/connections to the database. Although you have 1 userid defined you will not be allowed to have more than 5 users connect to the instance simultaneously. Regards $uhen While we are on the topic of oracle licensing, can someone help to clear up some doubts on named user licensing that I have? We have an existing 5-named user license for a small oracle 8i (8.1.5) database we have, but right now, it seems to be restricting the number of user sessions to 5 sessions even though the sessions are all using the same userid. Is this how the named user license is supposed to work? I was under the impression that the named user license was for restricting the number of users which you can create for a database and not the number of sessions. Or am I missing out on some settings/parameters to be defined? Regards, Leo -Original Message- Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:00:30 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] I suggest you talk to your Oracle rep before getting started. 'Concurrent' licensing is no longer a valid licensing model for Oracle. They sell by named user or per CPU. Their criteria for making you use the CPU licensing is rather broad. Just went through a licensing audit here. Lots o fun, let me tell you. While on the subject, does anyone have a good app/spreadsheet or template of some kind for tracking Oracle license use? It needs to track EE and Std versions, named and CPU licenses, servers, databases on the servers, users on the databases. I've cobbled my own stuff together from bits of string and baling wire, but I'm getting tired of messing with modifying SQL everytime I want a different view of the data, or to see if I can squeeze another app in without licensing more users. Thanks, Jared Smith, Ron L. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/19/02 11:14 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Oracle Licensing - Concurrent users We have been asked to gather statistics on the number of clients using Oracle. This is being done to determine if we have sufficient licensing. We have about 100 instances to monitor. Has anyone done this? Any ideas on what Concurrent users might mean to the majority of people? We have both Oracle 7 and Oracle 8. Ron Smith DBA Kerr-McGee Corp -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Smith, Ron L. INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kwek Li Gek INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Suhen Pather INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
Oracle Licensing Scheme
I can't seem to find anything clear on licensing rates at Oracle's site anymore. Maybe it's my eyes, but I just couldn't find it. Only thing I saw was their claim that they have now changed their licensing scheme to user and cpu units but I wanted the the rates. I need to know, besides (or before) calling Oracle, what the licensing rates are now for 8.0.5 Standard and Enterprise Editions and whether there's additional costs for opening up our database to Internet users. Thanks, George -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: George Hofilena INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle Licensing Scheme
George: I'm not a sales guy, so I would definitely talk to Oracle for the most current pricing/configuration info (as well as discounts). However, as of the 10/19/2001 price list, the costs are $15K/CPU for Standard Edition and $40K/CPU for Enterprise Edition. The named user licenses for the same are $300 and $800 respectively. At least that's according to the information that I have. Don't forget that their are optional componenets such as RAC, Partitioning, Advanced Security, etc. George Hofilena wrote: I can't seem to find anything clear on licensing rates at Oracle's site anymore. Maybe it's my eyes, but I just couldn't find it. Only thing I saw was their claim that they have now changed their licensing scheme to user and cpu units but I wanted the the rates. I need to know, besides (or before) calling Oracle, what the licensing rates are now for 8.0.5 Standard and Enterprise Editions and whether there's additional costs for opening up our database to Internet users. Thanks, George -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: George Hofilena INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Byron Pearce mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tenure Systems, Inc. Arlington, Texas It's hard to be a ninja when you wear a beeper. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Byron Pearce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle Licensing Scheme
George - To clarify your other question, one reason Oracle developed CPU pricing was for Internet access. This way you don't need to worry about how many people on the planet will be accessing your database. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 1:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L George: I'm not a sales guy, so I would definitely talk to Oracle for the most current pricing/configuration info (as well as discounts). However, as of the 10/19/2001 price list, the costs are $15K/CPU for Standard Edition and $40K/CPU for Enterprise Edition. The named user licenses for the same are $300 and $800 respectively. At least that's according to the information that I have. Don't forget that their are optional componenets such as RAC, Partitioning, Advanced Security, etc. George Hofilena wrote: I can't seem to find anything clear on licensing rates at Oracle's site anymore. Maybe it's my eyes, but I just couldn't find it. Only thing I saw was their claim that they have now changed their licensing scheme to user and cpu units but I wanted the the rates. I need to know, besides (or before) calling Oracle, what the licensing rates are now for 8.0.5 Standard and Enterprise Editions and whether there's additional costs for opening up our database to Internet users. Thanks, George -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: George Hofilena INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Byron Pearce mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tenure Systems, Inc. Arlington, Texas It's hard to be a ninja when you wear a beeper. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Byron Pearce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Oracle licensing,,,,again
I understand about how concurrent and named user licensing works for the most part. What I don't understand is when you have a web application that gets people from all over coming into our site and then routed through MTS to be sent to the Oracle database for info. How does the web stuff count against the license? If anyone understands this or can point me to a good doc I would appreciate it. Thanks, Dave -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Farnsworth, Dave INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle licensing,,,,again
In these cases, Oracle tends to charge by the power of your server multiplied by the tensile strength of your shoelace divided by the number of sheep in an arbitrary pasture plus the total number of hair folicles on your head then doubled. Seriously, I've always had best success (in Oz and UK) by getting an Oracle guy in to your site and trying to nut out a reasonable deal. In our case, we had peak 2000 users concurrent, average 300 during the month, so we came to an arrangement on somewhere about 500 hth connor --- Farnsworth, Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I understand about how concurrent and named user licensing works for the most part. What I don't understand is when you have a web application that gets people from all over coming into our site and then routed through MTS to be sent to the Oracle database for info. How does the web stuff count against the license? If anyone understands this or can point me to a good doc I would appreciate it. Thanks, Dave -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Farnsworth, Dave INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). = Connor McDonald http://www.oracledba.co.uk (mirrored at http://www.oradba.freeserve.co.uk) Some days you're the pigeon, some days you're the statue Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: =?iso-8859-1?q?Connor=20McDonald?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Oracle Licensing for a Clustered Server Configuration
Title: Oracle Licensing for a Clustered Server Configuration Hi, Does Oracle Corp. require you to buy the RDBMS license for the fail-over server (as well) in a 2-node cluster server environment? Thanks Nagesh
RE: Oracle Licensing for a Clustered Server Configuration
Title: Oracle Licensing for a Clustered Server Configuration Only if it's active on the fail over node - if it's passive you don't need a second license. -Original Message-From: Srinagesh Battula [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 1:07 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Oracle Licensing for a Clustered Server Configuration Hi, Does Oracle Corp. require you to buy the RDBMS license for the fail-over server (as well) in a 2-node cluster server environment? Thanks Nagesh
RE: Oracle Licensing for a Clustered Server Configuration
Title: Oracle Licensing for a Clustered Server Configuration John, are/were you in a similiar env.. ..very curious..coz Oracle is forcing us to buy a second license for the passive fail-over server .. Thanks -Original Message-From: Shaw, John B [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 12:21 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Oracle Licensing for a Clustered Server Configuration Only if it's active on the fail over node - if it's passive you don't need a second license. -Original Message-From: Srinagesh Battula [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 1:07 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Oracle Licensing for a Clustered Server Configuration Hi, Does Oracle Corp. require you to buy the RDBMS license for the fail-over server (as well) in a 2-node cluster server environment? Thanks Nagesh
RE: Oracle Licensing for a Clustered Server Configuration
Title: RE: Oracle Licensing for a Clustered Server Configuration Our failover server neither has a standby database nor oracle binaries. In our Clustered server configuration, when a fail over happens the entire diskgroups will be de-ported from the primary and imported on the failover server. So, at any given point only one node will be running oracle.. -Original Message- From: Rachel Carmichael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 12:01 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Oracle Licensing for a Clustered Server Configuration for a standby database? yes. If you are USING the binaries on the machine (to apply the archived logs) they want the money. However, if you have a backup copy of the binaries loaded, but are not running Oracle, they don't ask for the money. From: Srinagesh Battula [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Oracle Licensing for a Clustered Server Configuration Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:07:29 -0800 Hi, Does Oracle Corp. require you to buy the RDBMS license for the fail-over server (as well) in a 2-node cluster server environment? Thanks Nagesh _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle Licensing
The disk packs (probably still) come with 60 day trials for everything you didn't buy. Alternatively, if you have 10 developers, you could buy a 15-user license for your developer test machine (10 devs + you, your assistant, your operator and a couple spares in case you expand). The software works the same no matter how you licensed it. You should buy support for everything, just in case. Hard to explain to management/stockholders why you didn't when the servers are down ;-). Yes it is expensive if you have a "real" client-test setup where you can run in parallel with production, but heck, that's what vendor negotiations are for :-). Steve Orr wrote: NOT happy making for the DBA (me) Yeah, what if you needed a "temporary install" on a new machine to test something? Am I really expected to get a license for a temporary install? Suppose you want to test some UNIX parameters and you can't use the "Development" or "QA" servers? (Not to mention production:-) Software locks just complicate things. Can't we still keep "the spirit of the law" without being subjected to draconian measures to enforce licensing? How do you "setup shop" for licensing and support? Say you have 3 fairly equal servers for Development, Test, and Production. Each server is basically the same: same manufacturer; same hardware; same O/S version and patches, same Oracle version, etc. OK, maybe your production machine has four times the CPU and memory and a 1000 times more connections. How do you license and support these machines? An ORA-00600 or ORA-07445 on one machine "should" occur on the other machines for the same reasons with the same causes and producing the same effects/symptoms. Do you buy support for all three machines or do you just buy support for a smaller machine and apply patches across the board? What are the fine print legally correct answers versus the ethically correct practices in the real world? Is there a distinction? I can imagine what the answers would be if Oracle included these questions on the OCP tests. ;-) What do you say? Comments and confessions anyone? Feel free to email me privately. Steve Orr [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.arzoo.com -Original Message- Carmichael Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 9:46 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Ingres used to do that for expiration date... you had to enter an authorization string when you installed the database. It would check and refuse to come up if the software expired. Except they a) never warned you you were close to expiration b) usually shut you down around 10AM EST so people who had logged in earlier could work c) were a pita about sending a new string you had to shut down production in order to apply the new string. NOT happy making for the DBA (me) Rachel From: Dennis Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Oracle Licensing Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 07:40:43 -0800 At 03:35 AM 3/6/01 -0800, you wrote: my .02 is the whole power unit thing is a good concept but the $$ per unit is way outta whack. the only reason i say that is its been hard for oracle to denote when people were using more than the licenses they bought were being used. I had always setup the databases with the v$license parms setup in the database. But sometimes damagement "required" me to "uplift" the limits. We'll leave it at that. I've always been very surprised that Oracle didn't put some kind of licensing enforcement in their software. They're the perfect situation for it -- High ticket, relatively low volume. They could afford to "brand" the software before sending it to the customer. I bet they'd more than make up enough revenue to be able to drop their prices to something non-lunatic. Dennis Taylor In any human endeavor, once you have exhausted all possibilities and have failed, there will be one solution, simple and obvious, highly visible to everyone else. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steve Orr INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). begin:vcard n:Jerman;Don tel;work
RE: Oracle Licensing
ha, thank-god they save 1 billion dollars on using there own software. p- === Patrick Housholder Sr. Staff Anl Tech Spt Design United Airlines Flight Training Center Denver CO *-Original Message- *From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Eric D. *Pierce *Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 11:07 AM *To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L *Subject: RE: Oracle Licensing * * * *Oracle profit warning spells doom: * *http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/2001/8/ns-21312.html * *---excerpt--- * Lowered spending for software has hit Oracle * where it hurts * * Oracle, the world's second largest software * company, on Thursday joined the list of * technology bellwethers warning that a slowing * economy would cause profits to come in lower * than expected. * * Oracle had been one of the few industry titans to * appear unscathed by corporate America's * reluctance to commit to big-ticket technology * purchases. * * With Thursday's announcement after the close of * trading, Oracle joined the growing list of high-tech * companies, including Cisco Systems, Microsoft * and Sun Microsystems -- that have issued profit * warnings or indicated that deteriorating economic * conditions likely will make for a difficult business * climate during the first half of the calendar year. * * "We're seeing a very substantial slowdown in the * US economy that is making people cautions in all * of their spending, including spending for * software," Oracle chairman and chief executive * Larry Ellison said. * * Oracle said its formerly bullish forecasts began to * crumble when senior executives in the United * States were reluctant to give final approvals as * Oracle pushed to close sales for its fiscal third * quarter, which ended on Wednesday. * * "We didn't see a slowdown and that was * consistent up until about last Friday," Oracle chief * financial officer Jeff Henley said. * * "After that, every day it got worse. Literally the * last day of the quarter we had a number of * transactions that didn't happen," he said. * * Oracle shares, which had rallied $2-3/8 to close * at $21-3/8, fell to a new year-low of $16.94 in * after-hours trading on the Island system. The stock * is well off its year-high of $46-7/16. * * Based on the slowing sales, Oracle now expects * to report earnings per share at 10 cents, up 25 * percent from 8 cents a year ago, excluding * investment gains. The company had been expected * to earn 12 cents a share, according to First * Call/Thomson Financial. * * Ellison said Oracle's operating income would be * about $900m, compared with Wall Street's * forecast of $1bn. * * Oracle executives also said the company did not * yet see evidence that sales were slowing in Japan, * Asia and Europe. * * "Through the third quarter, at least, there didn't * appear to be any leakage abroad, but that doesn't * mean it couldn't happen," Henley said. * * "It's just going to bring down the whole software * sector. Obviously, no one's immune. I think the * whole group is vulnerable. This is the spill over * of technology," Credit Suisse First Boston analyst * Brent Thill said. "Software was the last standing * soldier." * * The software vendor said total revenue grew * around 9 percent for the quarter and software * license sales revenue rose by 6 percent. Of the * company's two software product lines, Oracle * said its applications business of enterprise and * front office software grew 50 percent while its * database business was flat to slightly negative. * Oracle is slated to give detailed fourth-quarter * financial guidance when it reports third-quarter * earnings on 15 March. * * In the months leading up to the warning, Oracle * said applications revenue would increase by 75 * percent or more in the third quarter. * * Analysts had been lowering forecasts for Oracle's * database revenue -- which accounted for more * than one-third of the company's second-quarter * revenues -- citing a slowing economy and dot-com * failures. Nevertheless, many thought it would * grow by at least 10 percent. * * "I was expecting things to not be great. But I was * not expecting it to be this bad. I still thought the * database business would exhibit some growth," * Epoch Partners senior analyst Mark Verbeck, said. * * While the warning marks the second time in a * decade that Oracle's earnings are expected to miss * forecasts, Ellison said the company's * year-over-year profit and margins show * improvement despite the tough economic * atmosphere. * * Oracle's operating margin improved to 33 percent, * an increase from 31 percent a year ago, said * Ellison, who added that the company also will * continue to manage expenses by allowing its head * count to fall through natural attrition. * * "As long as the economy doesn't get worse, we * think we're going to be just fine. We think we're * better equ
RE: Oracle Licensing
*thank-god they save 1 billion dollars on using there own software. ooppss...their === Patrick Housholder Sr. Staff Anl Tech Spt Design United Airlines Flight Training Center Denver CO *-Original Message- *From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Patrick *Housholder *Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:32 PM *To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L *Subject: RE: Oracle Licensing * * *ha, * *thank-god they save 1 billion dollars on using there own software.* *p- * *=== *Patrick Housholder *Sr. Staff Anl Tech Spt Design *United Airlines Flight Training Center *Denver CO * * **-Original Message- **From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Eric D. **Pierce **Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 11:07 AM **To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L **Subject: RE: Oracle Licensing ** ** ** **Oracle profit warning spells doom: ** **http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/2001/8/ns-21312.html ** **---excerpt--- ** Lowered spending for software has hit Oracle ** where it hurts ** ** Oracle, the world's second largest software ** company, on Thursday joined the list of ** technology bellwethers warning that a slowing ** economy would cause profits to come in lower ** than expected. ** ** Oracle had been one of the few industry titans to ** appear unscathed by corporate America's ** reluctance to commit to big-ticket technology ** purchases. ** ** With Thursday's announcement after the close of ** trading, Oracle joined the growing list of high-tech ** companies, including Cisco Systems, Microsoft ** and Sun Microsystems -- that have issued profit ** warnings or indicated that deteriorating economic ** conditions likely will make for a difficult business ** climate during the first half of the calendar year. ** ** "We're seeing a very substantial slowdown in the ** US economy that is making people cautions in all ** of their spending, including spending for ** software," Oracle chairman and chief executive ** Larry Ellison said. ** ** Oracle said its formerly bullish forecasts began to ** crumble when senior executives in the United ** States were reluctant to give final approvals as ** Oracle pushed to close sales for its fiscal third ** quarter, which ended on Wednesday. ** ** "We didn't see a slowdown and that was ** consistent up until about last Friday," Oracle chief ** financial officer Jeff Henley said. ** ** "After that, every day it got worse. Literally the ** last day of the quarter we had a number of ** transactions that didn't happen," he said. ** ** Oracle shares, which had rallied $2-3/8 to close ** at $21-3/8, fell to a new year-low of $16.94 in ** after-hours trading on the Island system. The stock ** is well off its year-high of $46-7/16. ** ** Based on the slowing sales, Oracle now expects ** to report earnings per share at 10 cents, up 25 ** percent from 8 cents a year ago, excluding ** investment gains. The company had been expected ** to earn 12 cents a share, according to First ** Call/Thomson Financial. ** ** Ellison said Oracle's operating income would be ** about $900m, compared with Wall Street's ** forecast of $1bn. ** ** Oracle executives also said the company did not ** yet see evidence that sales were slowing in Japan, ** Asia and Europe. ** ** "Through the third quarter, at least, there didn't ** appear to be any leakage abroad, but that doesn't ** mean it couldn't happen," Henley said. ** ** "It's just going to bring down the whole software ** sector. Obviously, no one's immune. I think the ** whole group is vulnerable. This is the spill over ** of technology," Credit Suisse First Boston analyst ** Brent Thill said. "Software was the last standing ** soldier." ** ** The software vendor said total revenue grew ** around 9 percent for the quarter and software ** license sales revenue rose by 6 percent. Of the ** company's two software product lines, Oracle ** said its applications business of enterprise and ** front office software grew 50 percent while its ** database business was flat to slightly negative. ** Oracle is slated to give detailed fourth-quarter ** financial guidance when it reports third-quarter ** earnings on 15 March. ** ** In the months leading up to the warning, Oracle ** said applications revenue would increase by 75 ** percent or more in the third quarter. ** ** Analysts had been lowering forecasts for Oracle's ** database revenue -- which accounted for more ** than one-third of the company's second-quarter ** revenues -- citing a slowing economy and dot-com ** failures. Nevertheless, many thought it would ** grow by at least 10 percent. ** ** "I was expecting things to not be great. But I was ** not expecting it to be this bad. I still thought the ** database business would exhibit some growth," ** Epoch Partners senior ana
RE: Oracle Licensing
As luck would have it I was evaluating the prices of Oracle and then SQL Server today. My question at this point is, what kind of prices does Microsoft charge for support, I was pretending to purchase SQL Server and noticed that no mention is made about product support. Using the "Power Unit" method MS and Oracle come out within about $5k of each other, but when you get to their Enterprise editions, MS is just under $20k where as Oracle is way out there. The cheaoest I could get Oracle, with unlimited users (which is what I need). On a 1ghz Intel, single processor machine with a 2 yr lic, Oracle Enterprise costs $45,600 (thats if you want support with your DB). If it were my money $20k vs. $45k+, hummm. I'm no Friend-of-Bill, but one has to wonder how Oracle can compete with such a huge price difference. Is MS doing to Oracle what it did to Netscape and dozens of other companies? Tom Martin Kendall - [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 3/5/2001 4:45 PM writes us: I'm following this thread and a worrying thought has crossed my mind:- If Oracle carries on with this pricing model, soon we will all be looking for a new job..scary :-) Martin Kendall -Original Message- Sent: 02 March 2001 22:00 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Last time I danced with our sales rep, power units were per server, not per user... so the power unit price would be 400*100 = 40,000 for an unlimited (Ha! at 200mhz?) number of users. If you ask nicely, yours may agree to convert any concurrent or named user licenses you have into power unit credits. Dennis Taylor wrote: At 06:25 AM 3/2/01 -0800, you wrote: the mire. At any rate, there are suppose to be two basic licensing schemes, and GOD only knows how many "allowed" permutations: 1) Power Units which equates to the number of processors times the speed of the processors in Megahertz. Oh, BTW: it matters if their Intel or Risc processors too. Risc processors are more expensive. In general this is the MOST expensive way to go. I went to the oracle site and did some calcs for adding users to Oracle Enterprise. Kept sayin g to myself, "Naw, they must mean *hundreds* of megahertz". Anyway, for a very behind-the-curve system (2x200mhz ppro's), it works out to $4000 per additional user. Or I can look at Interbase/Firebird, which is free. Today I will be assigning one of my staff the task of downloading, installing, and evaluating Firebird. The only way I can imagine that Oracle thinking can be going is: "Hey, revenues are dropping because of competition from free and less expensive dbms's". "No problem. Raise prices to make up the shortfall". Then I say to myself, "Naw, no-one can be that stupid". Then I check the per-user prices again Dennis Taylor Good we must love, and must hate ill, For ill is ill, and good good still. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Martin Kendall INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Tom Schruefer INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle Licensing
Oracle has been riding the concept of "we're oracle so you want to use our database" for a long while. I'll be one of the last to condone sql-server(as i've recently had to work with it for a client, and i talked up oracle for a while) but Mr Larry is losing market share, check out any of the financial stories about ORCL. The problem with M$ sql-server is its just not as scalable as oracle(yet). Think about it with the power unit concept its becoming too damn expensive except for the high-roller fortune 250 companies. I need a playgound to test new options, etc, if the whole technet thing did not exist, i'd never pay the price for the database just to experiment. my .02 is the whole power unit thing is a good concept but the $$ per unit is way outta whack. the only reason i say that is its been hard for oracle to denote when people were using more than the licenses they bought were being used. I had always setup the databases with the v$license parms setup in the database. But sometimes damagement "required" me to "uplift" the limits. We'll leave it at that. joe Tom Schruefer wrote: As luck would have it I was evaluating the prices of Oracle and then SQL Server today. My question at this point is, what kind of prices does Microsoft charge for support, I was pretending to purchase SQL Server and noticed that no mention is made about product support. Using the "Power Unit" method MS and Oracle come out within about $5k of each other, but when you get to their Enterprise editions, MS is just under $20k where as Oracle is way out there. The cheaoest I could get Oracle, with unlimited users (which is what I need). On a 1ghz Intel, single processor machine with a 2 yr lic, Oracle Enterprise costs $45,600 (thats if you want support with your DB). If it were my money $20k vs. $45k+, hummm. I'm no Friend-of-Bill, but one has to wonder how Oracle can compete with such a huge price difference. Is MS doing to Oracle what it did to Netscape and dozens of other companies? Tom Martin Kendall - [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 3/5/2001 4:45 PM writes us: I'm following this thread and a worrying thought has crossed my mind:- If Oracle carries on with this pricing model, soon we will all be looking for a new job..scary :-) Martin Kendall -Original Message- Sent: 02 March 2001 22:00 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Last time I danced with our sales rep, power units were per server, not per user... so the power unit price would be 400*100 = 40,000 for an unlimited (Ha! at 200mhz?) number of users. If you ask nicely, yours may agree to convert any concurrent or named user licenses you have into power unit credits. Dennis Taylor wrote: At 06:25 AM 3/2/01 -0800, you wrote: the mire. At any rate, there are suppose to be two basic licensing schemes, and GOD only knows how many "allowed" permutations: 1) Power Units which equates to the number of processors times the speed of the processors in Megahertz. Oh, BTW: it matters if their Intel or Risc processors too. Risc processors are more expensive. In general this is the MOST expensive way to go. I went to the oracle site and did some calcs for adding users to Oracle Enterprise. Kept sayin g to myself, "Naw, they must mean *hundreds* of megahertz". Anyway, for a very behind-the-curve system (2x200mhz ppro's), it works out to $4000 per additional user. Or I can look at Interbase/Firebird, which is free. Today I will be assigning one of my staff the task of downloading, installing, and evaluating Firebird. The only way I can imagine that Oracle thinking can be going is: "Hey, revenues are dropping because of competition from free and less expensive dbms's". "No problem. Raise prices to make up the shortfall". Then I say to myself, "Naw, no-one can be that stupid". Then I check the per-user prices again Dennis Taylor Good we must love, and must hate ill, For ill is ill, and good good still. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Joe Testa http://www.oracle-dba.com Performing Remote DBA Services, need some backup DBA support? For Sale: Oracle-dba.com domain, its not going cheap but feel free to ask :) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Joseph S. Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP
Re: Oracle Licensing
At 03:35 AM 3/6/01 -0800, you wrote: my .02 is the whole power unit thing is a good concept but the $$ per unit is way outta whack. the only reason i say that is its been hard for oracle to denote when people were using more than the licenses they bought were being used. I had always setup the databases with the v$license parms setup in the database. But sometimes damagement "required" me to "uplift" the limits. We'll leave it at that. I've always been very surprised that Oracle didn't put some kind of licensing enforcement in their software. They're the perfect situation for it -- High ticket, relatively low volume. They could afford to "brand" the software before sending it to the customer. I bet they'd more than make up enough revenue to be able to drop their prices to something non-lunatic. Dennis Taylor In any human endeavor, once you have exhausted all possibilities and have failed, there will be one solution, simple and obvious, highly visible to everyone else. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle Licensing
At 04:36 PM 3/5/01 -0800, you wrote: You should be able to find it at: http://store.oracle.com Thanks. It was that simple. [sigh] Shoot me now. Dennis Taylor In any human endeavor, once you have exhausted all possibilities and have failed, there will be one solution, simple and obvious, highly visible to everyone else. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle Licensing
At 03:00 AM 3/6/01 -0800, you wrote: As luck would have it I was evaluating the prices of Oracle and then SQL Server today. My question at this point is, what kind of prices does Microsoft charge for support, I was pretending to purchase SQL Server and noticed that no mention is made about product support. Using the "Power Unit" method MS and Oracle come out within about $5k of each other, but when you get to their Enterprise editions, MS is just under $20k where as Oracle is way out there. The cheaoest I could get Oracle, with unlimited users (which is what I need). On a 1ghz Intel, single processor machine with a 2 yr lic, Oracle Enterprise costs $45,600 (thats if you want support with your DB). Well, I bow to your superior wisdom, because I'm damned if I can figure it out. Here's what I have: linux box, 2x750MHz intel cpus, want to load Enterprise edition. That gives me 1500 UPU's. According to the web page, UPU's are $100 per. That gives $150,000.00 According to the web page, my minimum user count is 1500/30 = 75. According to the web page, perpetual users are $750 per, so 750x75 = $56,250.00 Now, do I pay the higher number, the lower number, the sum of the numbers, or what? I find it hard to believe that Oracle wants $206,250.00 just for an intel box, but there's nothing on the web page to indicate otherwise. Obviously this is another case of "give us your credit card, then we'll tell you how much you've paid". Can someone clarify this? (for those who are wondering why I don't just phone a salescritter, I have three reasons: 1) I need an answer this week, 2) I need an answer in plain english, and 3) Once a salecritter smells blood, er, money, it's like trying to get two-sided tape off your fingers.) Dennis Taylor In any human endeavor, once you have exhausted all possibilities and have failed, there will be one solution, simple and obvious, highly visible to everyone else. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle Licensing
Ingres used to do that for expiration date... you had to enter an authorization string when you installed the database. It would check and refuse to come up if the software expired. Except they a) never warned you you were close to expiration b) usually shut you down around 10AM EST so people who had logged in earlier could work c) were a pita about sending a new string you had to shut down production in order to apply the new string. NOT happy making for the DBA (me) Rachel From: Dennis Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Oracle Licensing Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 07:40:43 -0800 At 03:35 AM 3/6/01 -0800, you wrote: my .02 is the whole power unit thing is a good concept but the $$ per unit is way outta whack. the only reason i say that is its been hard for oracle to denote when people were using more than the licenses they bought were being used. I had always setup the databases with the v$license parms setup in the database. But sometimes damagement "required" me to "uplift" the limits. We'll leave it at that. I've always been very surprised that Oracle didn't put some kind of licensing enforcement in their software. They're the perfect situation for it -- High ticket, relatively low volume. They could afford to "brand" the software before sending it to the customer. I bet they'd more than make up enough revenue to be able to drop their prices to something non-lunatic. Dennis Taylor In any human endeavor, once you have exhausted all possibilities and have failed, there will be one solution, simple and obvious, highly visible to everyone else. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle Licensing
Looking for a job in Oracle sales? This is a pretty convincing argument. Thanks for the additional info. Jeffery Stevenson - [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 3/6/2001 10:10 AM writes us: Well, if you don't want product updates/upgrades for Oracle then you can knock about $15K off of that $45K for Oracle (and with SQL Server it looks like you can only upgrade the user licenses and not the processor licensing--looks like to upgrade you'd have to buy the new version anyways). Now for SQL Server support, there is a good pricing "menu" here for MS support for SQL Server: This seems to be the kicker. Its nice to be able to plan ahead to avoid future pitfalls, unfortunately most purchasing decisions don't seem to be made that way. A lot of times purchasing decisions are made based on the budget available today and not how much it will cost the company 2 years from now. M$ is famous for forcing users of its products, particularly business users to upgrade-or-else, if they want continued support. If Oracle could somehow account for this, like once a company purchases its database, they are likely to stay and upgrade. Its the reason so much desktop software is cheap, the companies actually make most of their money on upgrades. [snip some very convincing arguments] Now look at this scenario: I have a box with four 500 Mhz CPUs. Oracle with support and updates (the 2 year licensing scenario): $85,500 Microsoft without support and without updates: $79,996 Price wise (only), you would only pay half that if you got a box with 2 1000mhz CPU's. Thats a 2 CPU license at $39,998. If thats correct, it a hole MS is sure to plug. After all, the MS processor licensing is $1 per CPU. Now let's throw in a hypothetical that one year after buying your MS SQL Server, a new version comes out that just blows the previous version away--it fixes all the problems that your specific site has been having, it's faster, it's more scalable, it's more reliable and it will even start brewing coffee for you when it logs a database problem late at night. Now to upgrade to this new version (unless MS provides an upgrade option for the processor licensing in the future), it would cost you another $79,996 (and the same scenario with Oracle would only cost you the price to have them ship you the media...if you want it on disk that is). Anyways, just some things to think about with all of this. :) ***Now, we all seem to agree that the current licensing scenario for Oracle is a bit prohibitive...maybe we should collaborate and think of a pricing scenario that is fair, yet still competitive for them, and maybe if we get enough people to suggest it to them (and mention that they'd probably get a higher volume of sales with these pricing options)... Perhaps dropping their price and charging a bit more for upgrades, which for Oracle seem to come out frequently enough. First upgrade is free, etc., etc.. Oracle may also consider developing a much more user friendly (consumer) version of is Oracle Personal DB. Tom -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Tom Schruefer INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Marc Andreessen speaks frankly at Oracle AppsWorld / RE: Oracle Licensing
re: Andreessen says software companies, customers act as adversaries backgrounder: ---begin excerpt--- http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/02/22/010222hnandreessen.xml?p=brs=4?0226mnlv (url may wrap) Thursday February 22, 2001 "NEW ORLEANS -- Marc Andreessen may have created one of the most important pieces of software in history with the Netscape browser, but he swears he will never run a software company again. 'Software is the blob that ate the world,' Andreessen said, addressing Oracle conventioneers in his Thursday afternoon keynote address here. Reciting a litany of [] [*]abuses software [*]companies have perpetrated against consumers, Andreessen [] explained why the need for better customer service will change the system of software distribution. Software makers have had an increasingly adversarial relationship with their customers, largely because software companies do not look for a continuing sales relationship, he said. Speaking in the parlance of software sales people, Andreessen described software sales as 'drive-bys, or hit-and-run sales, in which the company sells the software and moves quickly on to the next sale, leaving customers to fend for themselves. He called a particularly gratifying sale -- one to a customer not expected to use the software -- a 'crack hit.' In a broad and humorous attack on the software industry, Andreessen said an adversarial culture has developed during the last thirty years, in which customers wait like vultures for software companies to reach the end of their financial quarters before ordering software in order to squeeze down prices and in which sellers pitch upgrade after upgrade to customers to boost revenue. Unlike many of the speakers at the week-long conference, Andreessen was [***]fairly candid[***] about the effect the technology market implosion has had on companies in California's Silicon Valley. 'The next few years will be characterized by immense pressure,' he said. Earnings matter again, there is no shortage of competitive pressure, and customer expectations are not getting any more reasonable, he added. Andreessen is now the chairman and CEO of Sunnyvale, Calif.-based LoudCloud, an IT infrastructure services company. He drew a parallel between the services offered by his own company and Akamai Technologies' content delivery networks, the security network of VeriSign, and the Internet addressing system managed by Network Solutions. Each provides a 'standard' for a function for the Internet, he said. The time has come for such standards to become more widespread. In the early days, standardization can be a drawback because it limits creativity,' Andreessen said. 'In a more mature environment, [a standard] is necessary in order to ensure a level of predictability.' Andreessen intends LoudCloud to establish a standard for e-commerce, in effect to commoditize the function of administering e-commerce Web sites. LoudCloud's clients outsource their Web site e-commerce operations to the company, which periodically upgrades the software running the site and aims to guarantee high levels of reliability. Andreessen's comments mirrored the sentiment Oracle Chairman Larry Ellison expressed a day earlier at his own keynote speech here. Ellison attacked the idea of customizing software by integrating different applications from different vendors, calling the process time-consuming, laborious, and expensive. Ellison also wants customers to rely more on Oracle for software customization and improvement in functionality. Oracle AppsWorld continues through Friday at the Ernest N. Morial Convention Center. [EMAIL PROTECTED] George A. Chidi is a Boston-based correspondent for the IDG News Service, an InfoWorld affiliate. " ---end excerpt--- -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle Licensing
My understanding of oracle licensing is that you pay (and pay and pay) for production, and sometimes test (kind of depends on if you are also using test as a backup of production), but not for development. So you buy support, licenses, etc. for the production boxes. Hence, the availability of free downloads of all the software. They want you to develop on it... My $0.02, Diana -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 2:55 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L NOT happy making for the DBA (me) Yeah, what if you needed a "temporary install" on a new machine to test something? Am I really expected to get a license for a temporary install? Suppose you want to test some UNIX parameters and you can't use the "Development" or "QA" servers? (Not to mention production:-) Software locks just complicate things. Can't we still keep "the spirit of the law" without being subjected to draconian measures to enforce licensing? How do you "setup shop" for licensing and support? Say you have 3 fairly equal servers for Development, Test, and Production. Each server is basically the same: same manufacturer; same hardware; same O/S version and patches, same Oracle version, etc. OK, maybe your production machine has four times the CPU and memory and a 1000 times more connections. How do you license and support these machines? An ORA-00600 or ORA-07445 on one machine "should" occur on the other machines for the same reasons with the same causes and producing the same effects/symptoms. Do you buy support for all three machines or do you just buy support for a smaller machine and apply patches across the board? What are the fine print legally correct answers versus the ethically correct practices in the real world? Is there a distinction? I can imagine what the answers would be if Oracle included these questions on the OCP tests. ;-) What do you say? Comments and confessions anyone? Feel free to email me privately. Steve Orr [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.arzoo.com -Original Message- Carmichael Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 9:46 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Ingres used to do that for expiration date... you had to enter an authorization string when you installed the database. It would check and refuse to come up if the software expired. Except they a) never warned you you were close to expiration b) usually shut you down around 10AM EST so people who had logged in earlier could work c) were a pita about sending a new string you had to shut down production in order to apply the new string. NOT happy making for the DBA (me) Rachel From: Dennis Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Oracle Licensing Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 07:40:43 -0800 At 03:35 AM 3/6/01 -0800, you wrote: my .02 is the whole power unit thing is a good concept but the $$ per unit is way outta whack. the only reason i say that is its been hard for oracle to denote when people were using more than the licenses they bought were being used. I had always setup the databases with the v$license parms setup in the database. But sometimes damagement "required" me to "uplift" the limits. We'll leave it at that. I've always been very surprised that Oracle didn't put some kind of licensing enforcement in their software. They're the perfect situation for it -- High ticket, relatively low volume. They could afford to "brand" the software before sending it to the customer. I bet they'd more than make up enough revenue to be able to drop their prices to something non-lunatic. Dennis Taylor In any human endeavor, once you have exhausted all possibilities and have failed, there will be one solution, simple and obvious, highly visible to everyone else. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steve Orr INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Diana Duncan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists ---
RE: Oracle Licensing
That is also my understanding. You can download free stuff for 'play' purposes but not for commercial uses. Gotta pay for everything. Hey man, yachts are expensive. Jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/06/01 04:02PM I just went through this with Oracle and they want $$$ for all servers you are using; Production, QA, Test and development. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 2:40 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L My understanding of oracle licensing is that you pay (and pay and pay) for production, and sometimes test (kind of depends on if you are also using test as a backup of production), but not for development. So you buy support, licenses, etc. for the production boxes. Hence, the availability of free downloads of all the software. They want you to develop on it... My $0.02, Diana -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 2:55 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L NOT happy making for the DBA (me) Yeah, what if you needed a "temporary install" on a new machine to test something? Am I really expected to get a license for a temporary install? Suppose you want to test some UNIX parameters and you can't use the "Development" or "QA" servers? (Not to mention production:-) Software locks just complicate things. Can't we still keep "the spirit of the law" without being subjected to draconian measures to enforce licensing? How do you "setup shop" for licensing and support? Say you have 3 fairly equal servers for Development, Test, and Production. Each server is basically the same: same manufacturer; same hardware; same O/S version and patches, same Oracle version, etc. OK, maybe your production machine has four times the CPU and memory and a 1000 times more connections. How do you license and support these machines? An ORA-00600 or ORA-07445 on one machine "should" occur on the other machines for the same reasons with the same causes and producing the same effects/symptoms. Do you buy support for all three machines or do you just buy support for a smaller machine and apply patches across the board? What are the fine print legally correct answers versus the ethically correct practices in the real world? Is there a distinction? I can imagine what the answers would be if Oracle included these questions on the OCP tests. ;-) What do you say? Comments and confessions anyone? Feel free to email me privately. Steve Orr [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.arzoo.com -Original Message- Carmichael Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 9:46 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Ingres used to do that for expiration date... you had to enter an authorization string when you installed the database. It would check and refuse to come up if the software expired. Except they a) never warned you you were close to expiration b) usually shut you down around 10AM EST so people who had logged in earlier could work c) were a pita about sending a new string you had to shut down production in order to apply the new string. NOT happy making for the DBA (me) Rachel From: Dennis Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Oracle Licensing Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 07:40:43 -0800 At 03:35 AM 3/6/01 -0800, you wrote: my .02 is the whole power unit thing is a good concept but the $$ per unit is way outta whack. the only reason i say that is its been hard for oracle to denote when people were using more than the licenses they bought were being used. I had always setup the databases with the v$license parms setup in the database. But sometimes damagement "required" me to "uplift" the limits. We'll leave it at that. I've always been very surprised that Oracle didn't put some kind of licensing enforcement in their software. They're the perfect situation for it -- High ticket, relatively low volume. They could afford to "brand" the software before sending it to the customer. I bet they'd more than make up enough revenue to be able to drop their prices to something non-lunatic. Dennis Taylor In any human endeavor, once you have exhausted all possibilities and have failed, there will be one solution, simple and obvious, highly visible to everyone else. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steve Orr INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UN
RE: Oracle Licensing
What about support? No one has addressed that yet. -Original Message- Duncan Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 2:51 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Eek. Yup, just looked at the licensing stuff on the website, and you seem to be right. Just did an inventory of my boxes, too, and believe it or not, I'm fully licensed. Weird. Believe me, that's through no fault of my own. ;-) Diana -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 4:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L That is also my understanding. You can download free stuff for 'play' purposes but not for commercial uses. Gotta pay for everything. Hey man, yachts are expensive. Jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/06/01 04:02PM I just went through this with Oracle and they want $$$ for all servers you are using; Production, QA, Test and development. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 2:40 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L My understanding of oracle licensing is that you pay (and pay and pay) for production, and sometimes test (kind of depends on if you are also using test as a backup of production), but not for development. So you buy support, licenses, etc. for the production boxes. Hence, the availability of free downloads of all the software. They want you to develop on it... My $0.02, Diana -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 2:55 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L NOT happy making for the DBA (me) Yeah, what if you needed a "temporary install" on a new machine to test something? Am I really expected to get a license for a temporary install? Suppose you want to test some UNIX parameters and you can't use the "Development" or "QA" servers? (Not to mention production:-) Software locks just complicate things. Can't we still keep "the spirit of the law" without being subjected to draconian measures to enforce licensing? How do you "setup shop" for licensing and support? Say you have 3 fairly equal servers for Development, Test, and Production. Each server is basically the same: same manufacturer; same hardware; same O/S version and patches, same Oracle version, etc. OK, maybe your production machine has four times the CPU and memory and a 1000 times more connections. How do you license and support these machines? An ORA-00600 or ORA-07445 on one machine "should" occur on the other machines for the same reasons with the same causes and producing the same effects/symptoms. Do you buy support for all three machines or do you just buy support for a smaller machine and apply patches across the board? What are the fine print legally correct answers versus the ethically correct practices in the real world? Is there a distinction? I can imagine what the answers would be if Oracle included these questions on the OCP tests. ;-) What do you say? Comments and confessions anyone? Feel free to email me privately. Steve Orr [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.arzoo.com -Original Message- Carmichael Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 9:46 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Ingres used to do that for expiration date... you had to enter an authorization string when you installed the database. It would check and refuse to come up if the software expired. Except they a) never warned you you were close to expiration b) usually shut you down around 10AM EST so people who had logged in earlier could work c) were a pita about sending a new string you had to shut down production in order to apply the new string. NOT happy making for the DBA (me) Rachel From: Dennis Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Oracle Licensing Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 07:40:43 -0800 At 03:35 AM 3/6/01 -0800, you wrote: my .02 is the whole power unit thing is a good concept but the $$ per unit is way outta whack. the only reason i say that is its been hard for oracle to denote when people were using more than the licenses they bought were being used. I had always setup the databases with the v$license parms setup in the database. But sometimes damagement "required" me to "uplift" the limits. We'll leave it at that. I've always been very surprised that Oracle didn't put some kind of licensing enforcement in their software. They're the perfect situation for it -- High ticket, relatively low volume. They could afford to "brand" the software before sending it to the customer. I bet they'd more than make up enough revenue to be able to drop their prices to something non-lunatic. Dennis Taylor In any human endeavor, once you have exhausted all possibilities and have failed, there will be one solution, simple and obvious, highly visible to everyone else. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Steve Orr INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Oracle Licensing
I'm following this thread and a worrying thought has crossed my mind:- If Oracle carries on with this pricing model, soon we will all be looking for a new job..scary :-) Martin Kendall -Original Message- Sent: 02 March 2001 22:00 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Last time I danced with our sales rep, power units were per server, not per user... so the power unit price would be 400*100 = 40,000 for an unlimited (Ha! at 200mhz?) number of users. If you ask nicely, yours may agree to convert any concurrent or named user licenses you have into power unit credits. Dennis Taylor wrote: At 06:25 AM 3/2/01 -0800, you wrote: the mire. At any rate, there are suppose to be two basic licensing schemes, and GOD only knows how many "allowed" permutations: 1) Power Units which equates to the number of processors times the speed of the processors in Megahertz. Oh, BTW: it matters if their Intel or Risc processors too. Risc processors are more expensive. In general this is the MOST expensive way to go. I went to the oracle site and did some calcs for adding users to Oracle Enterprise. Kept sayin g to myself, "Naw, they must mean *hundreds* of megahertz". Anyway, for a very behind-the-curve system (2x200mhz ppro's), it works out to $4000 per additional user. Or I can look at Interbase/Firebird, which is free. Today I will be assigning one of my staff the task of downloading, installing, and evaluating Firebird. The only way I can imagine that Oracle thinking can be going is: "Hey, revenues are dropping because of competition from free and less expensive dbms's". "No problem. Raise prices to make up the shortfall". Then I say to myself, "Naw, no-one can be that stupid". Then I check the per-user prices again Dennis Taylor Good we must love, and must hate ill, For ill is ill, and good good still. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Martin Kendall INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle Licensing
Not so far fetched. My company lost several very large clients to DB2 and I am without a job. Martin Kendall wrote: I'm following this thread and a worrying thought has crossed my mind:-If Oracle carries on with this pricing model, soon we will all be lookingfor a new job..scary :-)Martin Kendall-Original Message-Sent: 02 March 2001 22:00To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LLast time I danced with our sales rep, power units were per server, not peruser... so the power unit price would be 400*100 = 40,000 for an unlimited(Ha!at 200mhz?) number of users. If you ask nicely, yours may agree to convertanyconcurrent or named user licenses you have into power unit credits.Dennis Taylor wrote: At 06:25 AM 3/2/01 -0800, you wrote:the mire. At any rate, there are suppose to be two basic licensingschemes, andGOD only knows how many "allowed" permutations: 1) Power Units which equates to the number of processors times thespeed ofthe processors in Megahertz. Oh, BTW: it matters if their Intel or Riscprocessors too. Risc processors are more expensive. In general this is the MOST expensive way to go.I went to the oracle site and did some calcs for adding users to OracleEnterprise. Kept sayin g to myself, "Naw, they must mean *hundreds* ofmegahertz". Anyway, for a very behind-the-curve system (2x200mhzppro's), it works out to $4000 per additional user.Or I can look at Interbase/Firebird, which is free.Today I will be assigning one of my staff the task of downloading,installing, and evaluating Firebird.The only way I can imagine that Oracle thinking can be going is: "Hey,revenues are dropping because of competition from free and less expensivedbms's". "No problem. Raise prices to make up the shortfall". Then I say to myself, "Naw, no-one can be that stupid". Then I check the per-user pricesagainDennis TaylorGood we must love, and must hate ill,For ill is ill, and good good still.--Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com--Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing ListsTo REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe messag! ! ! e BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle Licensing
Yarg! Snarfle! Argh! (sounds of chewing up furniture) For some reason, I can't find the URL that started this conversation. I thought it might be sales.oracle.com, but that doesn't give me the power unit calculations. Can someone help? At 02:26 PM 3/5/01 -0800, you wrote: Not so far fetched. My company lost several very large clients to DB2 and I am without a job. Martin Kendall wrote: I'm following this thread and a worrying thought has crossed my mind:- If Oracle carries on with this pricing model, soon we will all be looking for a new job..scary :-) Martin Kendall -Original Message- Sent: 02 March 2001 22:00 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Last time I danced with our sales rep, power units were per server, not per user... so the power unit price would be 400*100 = 40,000 for an unlimited (Ha! at 200mhz?) number of users. If you ask nicely, yours may agree to convert any concurrent or named user licenses you have into power unit credits. Dennis Taylor wrote: At 06:25 AM 3/2/01 -0800, you wrote: the mire. At any rate, there are suppose to be two basic licensing schemes, and GOD only knows how many "allowed" permutations: 1) Power Units which equates to the number of processors times the speed of the processors in Megahertz. Oh, BTW: it matters if their Intel or Risc processors too. Risc processors are more expensive. In general this is the MOST expensive way to go. I went to the oracle site and did some calcs for adding users to Oracle Enterprise. Kept sayin g to myself, "Naw, they must mean *hundreds* of megahertz". Anyway, for a very behind-the-curve system (2x200mhz ppro's), it works out to $4000 per additional user. Or I can look at Interbase/Firebird, which is free. Today I will be assigning one of my staff the task of downloading, installing, and evaluating Firebird. The only way I can imagine that Oracle thinking can be going is: "Hey, revenues are dropping because of competition from free and less expensive dbms's". "No problem. Raise prices to make up the shortfall". Then I say to myself, "Naw, no-one can be that stupid". Then I check the per-user prices again Dennis Taylor Good we must love, and must hate ill, For ill is ill, and good good still. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com>http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the messag! ! ! e BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Dennis Taylor Null fortune. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle Licensing
Title: You should be able to find it at: http://store.oracle.com Jeffery StevensonChief Databeast TamerMedical Present Value, Inc.Austin, TX -Original Message-From: Dennis Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 6:01 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re: Oracle Licensing Yarg! Snarfle! Argh! (sounds of chewing up furniture) For some reason, I can't find the URL that started this conversation. I thought it might be sales.oracle.com, but that doesn't give me the power unit calculations. Can someone help? At 02:26 PM 3/5/01 -0800, you wrote: Not so far fetched. My company lost several very large clients to DB2 and I am without a job. Martin Kendall wrote: I'm following this thread and a worrying thought has crossed my mind:- If Oracle carries on with this pricing model, soon we will all be looking for a new job..scary :-) Martin Kendall -Original Message- Sent: 02 March 2001 22:00 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Last time I danced with our sales rep, power units were per server, not per user... so the power unit price would be 400*100 = 40,000 for an unlimited (Ha! at 200mhz?) number of users. If you ask nicely, yours may agree to convert any concurrent or named user licenses you have into power unit credits. Dennis Taylor wrote: At 06:25 AM 3/2/01 -0800, you wrote: the mire. At any rate, there are suppose to be two basic licensing schemes, and GOD only knows how many "allowed" permutations: 1) Power Units which equates to the number of processors times the speed of the processors in Megahertz. Oh, BTW: it matters if their Intel or Risc processors too. Risc processors are more expensive. In general this is the MOST expensive way to go. I went to the oracle site and did some calcs for adding users to Oracle Enterprise. Kept sayin g to myself, "Naw, they must mean *hundreds* of megahertz". Anyway, for a very behind-the-curve system (2x200mhz ppro's), it works out to $4000 per additional user. Or I can look at Interbase/Firebird, which is free. Today I will be assigning one of my staff the task of downloading, installing, and evaluating Firebird. The only way I can imagine that Oracle thinking can be going is: "Hey, revenues are dropping because of competition from free and less expensive dbms's". "No problem. Raise prices to make up the shortfall". Then I say to myself, "Naw, no-one can be that stupid". Then I check the per-user prices again Dennis Taylor Good we must love, and must hate ill, For ill is ill, and good good still. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.comhttp://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the messag! ! ! e BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Dennis Taylor Null fortune. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re[2]:Oracle Licensing
Dennis, I'm sitting in the middle of the East Coast dot bomb area. I know of three dot bombs that paid a total of $100 million between them for Oracle licenses. Now that the dot com sugar daddy has been licked clean maybe reality will strike!! Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Dennis Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 3/2/2001 8:30 AM At 06:25 AM 3/2/01 -0800, you wrote: the mire. At any rate, there are suppose to be two basic licensing schemes, and GOD only knows how many "allowed" permutations: 1) Power Units which equates to the number of processors times the speed of the processors in Megahertz. Oh, BTW: it matters if their Intel or Risc processors too. Risc processors are more expensive. In general this is the MOST expensive way to go. I went to the oracle site and did some calcs for adding users to Oracle Enterprise. Kept sayin g to myself, "Naw, they must mean *hundreds* of megahertz". Anyway, for a very behind-the-curve system (2x200mhz ppro's), it works out to $4000 per additional user. Or I can look at Interbase/Firebird, which is free. Today I will be assigning one of my staff the task of downloading, installing, and evaluating Firebird. The only way I can imagine that Oracle thinking can be going is: "Hey, revenues are dropping because of competition from free and less expensive dbms's". "No problem. Raise prices to make up the shortfall". Then I say to myself, "Naw, no-one can be that stupid". Then I check the per-user prices again Dennis Taylor Good we must love, and must hate ill, For ill is ill, and good good still. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Re[2]:Oracle Licensing
I doubt it, Oracle will say that their profit margins are too low so they will up their licence costs for everyone else. Larry can you spell greed. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/02/01 12:35PM Dennis, I'm sitting in the middle of the East Coast dot bomb area. I know of three dot bombs that paid a total of $100 million between them for Oracle licenses. Now that the dot com sugar daddy has been licked clean maybe reality will strike!! Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Dennis Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 3/2/2001 8:30 AM At 06:25 AM 3/2/01 -0800, you wrote: the mire. At any rate, there are suppose to be two basic licensing schemes, and GOD only knows how many "allowed" permutations: 1) Power Units which equates to the number of processors times the speed of the processors in Megahertz. Oh, BTW: it matters if their Intel or Risc processors too. Risc processors are more expensive. In general this is the MOST expensive way to go. I went to the oracle site and did some calcs for adding users to Oracle Enterprise. Kept sayin g to myself, "Naw, they must mean *hundreds* of megahertz". Anyway, for a very behind-the-curve system (2x200mhz ppro's), it works out to $4000 per additional user. Or I can look at Interbase/Firebird, which is free. Today I will be assigning one of my staff the task of downloading, installing, and evaluating Firebird. The only way I can imagine that Oracle thinking can be going is: "Hey, revenues are dropping because of competition from free and less expensive dbms's". "No problem. Raise prices to make up the shortfall". Then I say to myself, "Naw, no-one can be that stupid". Then I check the per-user prices again Dennis Taylor Good we must love, and must hate ill, For ill is ill, and good good still. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: William Beilstein INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle Licensing
Last time I danced with our sales rep, power units were per server, not per user... so the power unit price would be 400*100 = 40,000 for an unlimited (Ha! at 200mhz?) number of users. If you ask nicely, yours may agree to convert any concurrent or named user licenses you have into power unit credits. Dennis Taylor wrote: At 06:25 AM 3/2/01 -0800, you wrote: the mire. At any rate, there are suppose to be two basic licensing schemes, and GOD only knows how many "allowed" permutations: 1) Power Units which equates to the number of processors times the speed of the processors in Megahertz. Oh, BTW: it matters if their Intel or Risc processors too. Risc processors are more expensive. In general this is the MOST expensive way to go. I went to the oracle site and did some calcs for adding users to Oracle Enterprise. Kept sayin g to myself, "Naw, they must mean *hundreds* of megahertz". Anyway, for a very behind-the-curve system (2x200mhz ppro's), it works out to $4000 per additional user. Or I can look at Interbase/Firebird, which is free. Today I will be assigning one of my staff the task of downloading, installing, and evaluating Firebird. The only way I can imagine that Oracle thinking can be going is: "Hey, revenues are dropping because of competition from free and less expensive dbms's". "No problem. Raise prices to make up the shortfall". Then I say to myself, "Naw, no-one can be that stupid". Then I check the per-user prices again Dennis Taylor Good we must love, and must hate ill, For ill is ill, and good good still. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Dennis Taylor INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). begin:vcard n:Jerman;Don tel;work:919.508.1886 x-mozilla-html:TRUE org:Database Management Service,Information Technology version:2.1 email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Database Administrator adr;quoted-printable:;;Database Management Service,Information Technology=0D=0A104 Fayetteville Street Mall;Raleigh;NC;27699-1521;USA x-mozilla-cpt:;-9536 fn:Don Jerman end:vcard
Oracle Licensing
Title: Oracle Licensing Dear Esteemed List, Though I am very familiar with the technical aspects of Oracle, I don't know much about Oracle licensing. I have recently been asked by one of our staff to get more information on licensing. I would be very grateful for any information relating to this. Also, is licensing based on the number of OS's or is it only on processers used/speed etc. What happens if you are running a passive/standby database, or a OS clustering solution. Thanks. Regards, Nick Mundi
RE: Oracle Licensing
Nick, As a start you might want to go to http://oraclestore.com There you will see list prices in US dollars for the various options, including DB versions - Enterprise, std, lite, personal Licensing options - named user (single or multi server), or universal power unit (Note that concurrent licences are not sold any more). You can also buy perpetual or timed licenses. Check http://technet.oracle.com/products/oracle8i/pdf/8i_fam.pdf for a document that describes what is in each version and you can see that (for example) OPS and partitioning are extra cost options. Automated standby is only in the Enterprise Edition. Please let us know what other relevant points you find out. Regards, Bruce Reardon -Original Message- Sent: Friday, 2 March 2001 10:09 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Dear Esteemed List, Though I am very familiar with the technical aspects of Oracle, I don't know much about Oracle licensing. I have recently been asked by one of our staff to get more information on licensing. I would be very grateful for any information relating to this. Also, is licensing based on the number of OS's or is it only on processers used/speed etc. What happens if you are running a passive/standby database, or a OS clustering solution. Thanks. Regards, Nick Mundi -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Reardon, Bruce (CALBBAY) INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
