Re: Re: Re[2]: Oracle vs Mysql

[KENNETH JANUSZ]

The old IBM System3 machines used 120 col. punch cards.  And initially they
had no HD's.  Everything was done with cards and a reader/sorter.  To
compile a program you took the code you wrote, punched it into cards and
then put it behind a stack of cards that was the compiler.  The machine read
the cards and generated another pile cards that was the compiled code.  No
matter how big the code you were compiling it took about 30 minutes to do a
compile.  All data was stored on cards - lots and lots of cards.

Ken


- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 9:34 AM


> [snip]
> > 120 col. punch cards?
>
>  You had a high-density model. Mine only had 80 cols, of which 72 were
usable for my goto-happy Fortran statements.
>
> SF
>
>
> >No hard drives?
> >
> >My $0.02 worth,
> >
> >Ken Janusz, CPIM
> >
> >
> >- Original Message -
> >To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:39 AM
> >
> >
> >> Careful Mladen,  your revealing your age!!  Bet
> >you remember RPT & RPF as
> >well!!
> >>
> >> Dick Goulet
> >> Senior Oracle DBA
> >> Oracle Certified 8i DBA
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 2:04 AM
> >> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2004.01.19 23:39, Jonathan Gennick wrote:
> >>
> >> > I used to use a SQL Module compiler. Not with
> >Oracle though.
> >> > It's rare for me to run into someone else who
> >likes that
> >> > approach. Actually, it's rare for me to
> >encounter someone
> >> > who's even heard of it...
> >>
> >> Jonathan, I've been around for a long time. I've
> >seen things like
> >> DataLens for Lotus123, SQL*Calc, Easy*SQL, then
> >there was an Oracle
> >> version of then popular DB2 tool, which looked
> >like an IBM 3874 terminal
> >on top
> >> of VT320, SQL*Graph does deserve a honorable
> >mention, then there was
> >PRO*Pascal,
> >> and a myriad of other exotic stuff that I cannot
> >remember now. I was
> >laughing when
> >> I saw "UNDO TABLESPACES" in 9i. What exactly is a
> >difference between a
> >specialized
> >> undo tablespace and a file that was just laying
> >around and couldn't be
> >touched and
> >> was named "Before Image file" or "BI file".
> >Logical names (another
> >concept that many
> >> youngsters are probably unfamiliar with) were
> >usually VAX$BI or ORACLE$BI.
> >> Unfortunately, discussions like that are not part
> >of OCP curriculum.
> >> The file is not really part of the database, you
> >can't create any objects
> >in it, it manages
> >> itself and it stores the old values of oracle
> >blocks, in case rollback is
> >needed.  I could
> >> be talking about "BI" file or "UNDO TABLESPACE",
> >there is no difference
> >whatsoever.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mladen Gogala
> >> Oracle DBA
> >> --
> >> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> >http://www.orafaq.net
> >> --
> >> Author: Mladen Gogala
> >>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >> Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051
> >http://www.fatcity.com
> >> San Diego, California -- Mailing list and
> >web hosting services
> >>
> >> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send
> >an E-Mail message
> >> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
> >'ListGuru') and in
> >> the message BODY, include a line containing:
> >UNSUB ORACLE-L
> >> (or the name of mailing list you want to be
> >removed from).  You may
> >> also send the HELP command for other information
> >(like subscribing).
> >> --
> >> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> >http://www.orafaq.net
> >> --
> >> Author: Goulet, Dick
> >>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >> Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051
> >http://www.fatcity.com
> >> San Diego, California -- Mailing list and
> >web hosting services
> >>
> >> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send
> >an E-Mail message
> >> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
> >'ListGuru') and in
> >> the message BODY, include a line containing:
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> >> (or the name of mailing list you want to be
> >removed from).  You may
> >> also send the HELP command for other information
> >(like subscribing).
> >
> >
> >--
> >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> >http://www.orafaq.net
> >--
> >Author: KENNETH JANUSZ
> >  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
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> >

RE: Re: Re[2]: Oracle vs Mysql

[Stephane Faroult]

[snip]
> 120 col. punch cards?

 You had a high-density model. Mine only had 80 cols, of which 72 were usable for my 
goto-happy Fortran statements.

SF


>No hard drives?
>
>My $0.02 worth,
>
>Ken Janusz, CPIM
>
>
>- Original Message -
>To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:39 AM
>
>
>> Careful Mladen,  your revealing your age!!  Bet
>you remember RPT & RPF as
>well!!
>>
>> Dick Goulet
>> Senior Oracle DBA
>> Oracle Certified 8i DBA
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 2:04 AM
>> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2004.01.19 23:39, Jonathan Gennick wrote:
>>
>> > I used to use a SQL Module compiler. Not with
>Oracle though.
>> > It's rare for me to run into someone else who
>likes that
>> > approach. Actually, it's rare for me to
>encounter someone
>> > who's even heard of it...
>>
>> Jonathan, I've been around for a long time. I've
>seen things like
>> DataLens for Lotus123, SQL*Calc, Easy*SQL, then
>there was an Oracle
>> version of then popular DB2 tool, which looked
>like an IBM 3874 terminal
>on top
>> of VT320, SQL*Graph does deserve a honorable
>mention, then there was
>PRO*Pascal,
>> and a myriad of other exotic stuff that I cannot
>remember now.  I was
>laughing when
>> I saw "UNDO TABLESPACES" in 9i. What exactly is a
>difference between a
>specialized
>> undo tablespace and a file that was just laying
>around and couldn't be
>touched and
>> was named "Before Image file" or "BI file". 
>Logical names (another
>concept that many
>> youngsters are probably unfamiliar with) were
>usually VAX$BI or ORACLE$BI.
>> Unfortunately, discussions like that are not part
>of OCP curriculum.
>> The file is not really part of the database, you
>can't create any objects
>in it, it manages
>> itself and it stores the old values of oracle
>blocks, in case rollback is
>needed.  I could
>> be talking about "BI" file or "UNDO TABLESPACE",
>there is no difference
>whatsoever.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mladen Gogala
>> Oracle DBA
>> --
>> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
>http://www.orafaq.net
>> --
>> Author: Mladen Gogala
>>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
>http://www.fatcity.com
>> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and
>web hosting services
>>
>> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send
>an E-Mail message
>> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
>'ListGuru') and in
>> the message BODY, include a line containing:
>UNSUB ORACLE-L
>> (or the name of mailing list you want to be
>removed from).  You may
>> also send the HELP command for other information
>(like subscribing).
>> --
>> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
>http://www.orafaq.net
>> --
>> Author: Goulet, Dick
>>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
>http://www.fatcity.com
>> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and
>web hosting services
>>
>> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send
>an E-Mail message
>> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
>'ListGuru') and in
>> the message BODY, include a line containing:
>UNSUB ORACLE-L
>> (or the name of mailing list you want to be
>removed from).  You may
>> also send the HELP command for other information
>(like subscribing).
>
>
>-- 
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
>http://www.orafaq.net
>-- 
>Author: KENNETH JANUSZ
>  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
>http://www.fatcity.com
>San Diego, California-- Mailing list and
>web hosting services
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
>E-Mail message
>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
>'ListGuru') and in
>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
>ORACLE-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
>from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information
>(like subscribing).
>---
>--
>---
>--
>---
>--


Regards,

Stephane Faroult
Oriole
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Stephane Faroult
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Re: Re: Index usage

[bhabani s pradhan]

Thanks.

Regards,
B S Pradhan

-


On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 zhu chao wrote :
>Hi,
> To see why oracle choose FTS, alter session set events '10053 trace name context 
> forever,level 2';
> You can do alter session to change index_adj and optimizer_index_caching  to 
> change only your session, or using hint.
>
>Regards
>Zhu Chao.
>
>- Original Message -
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 8:09 PM
>
>
>
>
>Hi All,
>
>Agreed.. and it should behave that way i.e
>
>if (cost of ind1 scan + then based on c1's selection table access for c3) > (direct 
>table access for c1 and c1) then oracle will use FTS with cost based optimization.
>So, w/o a hint that is expected.
>
>But why it is not picking the index in my case i donot know.
>
>Also, can optimizer_index_cost_adj help? Its 100 now. Also that affects the whole DB, 
>so is there any way to set it for this particular query ?
>
>
>Thanks for all the inputs.
>
>
>Regards,
>B S Pradhan
>
>
>
>
>
>On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 Mike Spalinger wrote :
> >The difference is that the first query never has to go to the table (because you're 
> >selecting a constant 'x').  The second query has to go to the table to filter on c3.
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >anu wrote:
> >>No.
> >>  The index should get used. The query result for query 2 is a subset of  rows 
> >> with ta.c1='val1' will get selected. Subset of query 1.
> >>  So there is no need for a full table scan. The index can be used in the 
> >> following way :
> >>  1) Use index ind1 to get rows with ta.c1='val1' (which is query 1). This can 
> >> definitely use an index.
> >>2) Further filter using ta.c3 = 'val2'
> >>  Now may be the index is not very selective and the optimizer is going in for a 
> >> full table scan. What is the cardinality like? It is strange that  RULE or index 
> >> hint is not taking it. Can you try a simple index(ta) hint or send your hint 
> >> syntax.  Can you try the hint on another table to make sure hint is working. I do 
> >> not know why hint should not work.
> >>  Good luck.
> >>
> >>"Daniel W. Fink" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>You answered your own question.
> >>
> >>ta.c3 is a nonindexed column, this means that the only way to
> >>satisfy the
> >>predicate is to perform a full table scan. Since this predicate
> >>condition forces
> >>a full table scan on ta, which will retrieve the ta.c1 column values
> >>at the same
> >>time, there is no need to use an index. In fact, an additional index
> >>access
> >>would decrease the query performance.
> >>
> >>Daniel Fink
> >>
> >>bhabani s pradhan wrote:
> >>
> >>  > Hi All,
> >>  >
> >>  > Merry Christmas to all
> >>  >
> >>  > I have this interesting problem..
> >>  >
> >>  > For this query index ind1 on (c1,c2) columns is getting used.
> >>  > SELECT 'x'
> >>  > FROM tab ta
> >>  > WHERE ta.c1='val1';
> >>  > (gives index ind1 range scan)
> >>  >
> >>  > But for
> >>  >
> >>  > SELECT 'x'
> >>  > FROM tab ta
> >>  > WHERE ta.c1='val1'
> >>  > AND ta.c3 = 'val2';
> >>  > (gives FTS)
> >>  > index ind1 is not being used. c3 is a nonindexed column.
> >>  >
> >>  > I have already tried index(ta ind1) , RULE hints.
> >>  >
> >>  > The table and the index are analyzed.
> >>  >
> >>  > What cud be the reason for that?
> >>  >
> >>  > Regards,
> >>  > B S Pradhan
> >>
> >>--Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> >>--Author: Daniel W. Fink
> >>INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >>Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> >>San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
> >>-
> >>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> >>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> >>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> >>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
> >>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> >>
> >>!
> >>
> >>
> >>Do you Yahoo!?
> >>Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now 
> >>
> >
> >
> >-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> >-- Author: Mike Spalinger
> >  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
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Re: RE: RE: orbitz fiasco

[Tanel Poder]

Nope, TRU64

Tanel.


> Was this on AIX by any chance ??
> 
> Raj
> --
> --
> 
> Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
> All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
> QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 11:20 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Btw, my colleague was working on a 9.0.1.3 RAC project where hang of
> one
> node caused hang of all other ones. Now that's high availability ;)
> 
> Tanel.
> 
> 
> **
> **
> **
> This e-mail message is confidential, intended only for the named
> recipient(s) above and may contain information that is privileged,
> attorney
> work product or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you
> have
> received this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s),
> please
> immediately notify corporate MIS at (860) 766-2000 and delete this
> e-mail
> message from your computer, Thank you.
> **
> **
> **5
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Jamadagni, Rajendra
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
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> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 
> 

Re: Re: Re: _wait_for_sync , dirty buffer flushing and direct reads in parallel

[Anjo Kolk]

The foreground process is affected. Instead of waiting for the LGWR, it will
return right away.

Anjo.

- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 4:24 PM
in parallel


> :)
>
> I admit, that I don't know either, which processes are affected by this
parameter.
> If foreground ones are, that should mean that after posting lgwr, they
won't wait on semaphore and continue their work.
>
> If it affects lgwr, it means that lgwr posts the waiting processes
immediately "back" before writing to disk.
>
> I'm too lazy now, but it can probably be figured out by tracing semop()
syscalls... or maybe Steve Adams happens to read this post :)
>
> About "scientific" test results, the results I posted earlier, they were
done exactly on same hardware, with same dataset and from same  starting
point. Enough scientific for me.
>
> Tanel.
>
> > I think my understanding was wrong. _wait_for_sync actually only
> > changes the
> > behavior of foreground processes. When set to false, they don't wait
> > for
> > LGWR
> > to write redo records to disk; instead they continue to do their work
> > as if
> > log
> > file sync already finished. It *does not* change any behavior of LGWR,
> > notification or not. Correct me if I'm wrong again.
> >
> > I'm still interested in Tanel's benchmark, though. Only that is
> > scientific.
> >
> > Yong Huang
> >
> > --- Yong Huang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, i.e. myself, wrote a few minutes
> > ago:
> > > Tanel,
> > >
> > > Did you observe better performance? By how much? Do please let us
> > know!
> > >
> > > From what I read, _wait_for_sync when set to false means LGWR
> > immediately
> > > notifies user (foreground) processes that redo record writes are
> > done
> > (even
> > > though they're not). When you say the parameter only affects LGWR,
> > you
> > need
> > > to
> > > clarify what you mean by "affect"; it changes the notification
> > (posting)
> > > behavior of LGWR therefore changes the behavior of waiting processes
> > (*when*
> > > they stop waiting). Just semantics.
> > >
> > > Yong Huang
> > >
> > > --- Tanel Poder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > Anjo,
> > > >
> > > > I also thought it affects only lgwr sync, but Jonathan Lewis once
> > told
> > that
> > > > it affects any disk writes...
> > > >
> > > > If it affects only lgwr, then great, I can make Apps upgrades,
> > which do
> > > > really lots of DDLs and small transactions, quite much faster that
> > way...
> > > >
> > > > Thank you,
> > > > Tanel.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > _wait_for_sync basically meant that a session is waiting for
> > the sync
> > > > > of the
> > > > > redo by the lgwr. Normally the redo log writer writes to disk
> > and then
> > > > > notifies the session that the transaction is completed. By
> > setting
> > > > > this to
> > > > > false, you no longer wait for the redo to go to disk.
> > > > >
> > > > > That has no impact on your situation.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anjo.
> >
> >
> > __
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
> > http://companion.yahoo.com/
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author: Yong Huang
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> > -
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> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> >
> >
>

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Anjo Kolk
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Re: Re: _wait_for_sync , dirty buffer flushing and direct reads in parallel

[Tanel Poder]

> Tanel,
> 
> Did you observe better performance? By how much? Do please let us
> know!

Oracle Apps upgrade between major releases involves running hundreds of thousands 
scripts in bigger cases. Some of there scripts execute bigger transactions, but 
majority execute lots of small transactions and DDLs (even commenting on tables).

And their script template has an additional commit in end of every script (in later db 
versions it is not that big problem in IO sense, because no commit really executed if 
no transactions are started in session).

So, when I ran about 3 scripts in 8 hours before disabling wait for sync, then 
after setting it, the scripts ran in about 3-4 hours . I started searching for this 
kind of parameter when saw a lot of log file sync waits during upgrading.

And all of this was even before than I discovered _disable_logging ;)

> 
> From what I read, _wait_for_sync when set to false means LGWR
> immediately
> notifies user (foreground) processes that redo record writes are done
> (even
> though they're not). When you say the parameter only affects LGWR,
> you need
> to
> clarify what you mean by "affect"; it changes the notification
> (posting)
> behavior of LGWR therefore changes the behavior of waiting processes
> (*when*
> they stop waiting). Just semantics.

As you just wrote - this parameter affects (changes behaviour) of LGWR, other 
processes work as usual, they wake up when theyre posted.


Tanel.


> 
> Yong Huang
> 
> --- Tanel Poder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Anjo,
> >
> > I also thought it affects only lgwr sync, but Jonathan Lewis once
> told
> that
> > it affects any disk writes...
> >
> > If it affects only lgwr, then great, I can make Apps upgrades,
> which do
> > really lots of DDLs and small transactions, quite much faster that
> way...
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Tanel.
> >
> >
> > > _wait_for_sync basically meant that a session is waiting for the
> sync
> > > of the
> > > redo by the lgwr. Normally the redo log writer writes to disk and
> then
> > > notifies the session that the transaction is completed. By setting
> > > this to
> > > false, you no longer wait for the redo to go to disk.
> > >
> > > That has no impact on your situation.
> > >
> > > Anjo.
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 11:20 PM
> > > query
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi!
> > > >
> > > > I've sometimes used setting _wait_for_syncúlse during Apps
> upgrade
> > > > projects, to upgrade performance. (As long as your database
> doesn't
> > > crash
> > > > during the parameter is set to false, no problems should occur).
> > > >
> > > > I just started wondering, what would be the case if a parallel
> query
> > > starts
> > > > during someone is modifying data...
> > > >
> > > > As I understand, when doing parallel query:
> > > > 1) the dirty blocks which are supposed to be read by PQ in
> direct
> > > mode,
> > > are
> > > > flushed to disk
> > > > 2) PQ reads the blocks in direct mode
> > > >
> > > > But when _wait_for_sync is set, the writes get acknowledged
> > > immediately
> > > (or
> > > > acknowledgement is not waited for). Could this result in the
> > > unlikely
> > > > situation, that PQ issues the flush command to dirty buffers and
> > > starts to
> > > > read them, but actually reads the old images of the blocks,
> since it
> > > thinks
> > > > the write has already occurred?
> > > >
> > > > (actually, this doesn't touch only PQ, it's possible to have
> direct
> > > reads
> > > to
> > > > PGA in serial mode too...)
> > > >
> > > > Tanel
> 
> __
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Re: Re: Re: _wait_for_sync , dirty buffer flushing and direct reads in parallel

[Tanel Poder]

Hi!

Yup, I was bold enough to use this parameter during production upgrade only because it 
worked well in several tests and simulations.

Cheers,
Tanel.


> Well,
> 
> some disk writes need to wait for the LGWR to flush the corresponding
> redo
> to disk. So now you can have a situation that the blocks that are
> dirty are
> on disk (without a commited transaction) but the redo is not yet. So
> if you
> crash in that period, you can't recover.
> 
> Anjo.
> 
> - Original Message -
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 2:59 PM
> parallel
> 
> 
> > Anjo,
> >
> > I also thought it affects only lgwr sync, but Jonathan Lewis once
> told
> that it affects any disk writes...
> >
> > If it affects only lgwr, then great, I can make Apps upgrades,
> which do
> really lots of DDLs and small transactions, quite much faster that
> way...
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Tanel.
> >
> >
> > > _wait_for_sync basically meant that a session is waiting for the
> sync
> > > of the
> > > redo by the lgwr. Normally the redo log writer writes to disk and
> then
> > > notifies the session that the transaction is completed. By setting
> > > this to
> > > false, you no longer wait for the redo to go to disk.
> > >
> > > That has no impact on your situation.
> > >
> > > Anjo.
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 11:20 PM
> > > query
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi!
> > > >
> > > > I've sometimes used setting _wait_for_syncúlse during Apps
> upgrade
> > > > projects, to upgrade performance. (As long as your database
> doesn't
> > > crash
> > > > during the parameter is set to false, no problems should occur).
> > > >
> > > > I just started wondering, what would be the case if a parallel
> query
> > > starts
> > > > during someone is modifying data...
> > > >
> > > > As I understand, when doing parallel query:
> > > > 1) the dirty blocks which are supposed to be read by PQ in
> direct
> > > mode,
> > > are
> > > > flushed to disk
> > > > 2) PQ reads the blocks in direct mode
> > > >
> > > > But when _wait_for_sync is set, the writes get acknowledged
> > > immediately
> > > (or
> > > > acknowledgement is not waited for). Could this result in the
> > > unlikely
> > > > situation, that PQ issues the flush command to dirty buffers and
> > > starts to
> > > > read them, but actually reads the old images of the blocks,
> since it
> > > thinks
> > > > the write has already occurred?
> > > >
> > > > (actually, this doesn't touch only PQ, it's possible to have
> direct
> > > reads
> > > to
> > > > PGA in serial mode too...)
> > > >
> > > > Tanel.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > > --
> > > > Author: Tanel Poder
> > > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
> http://www.fatcity.com
> > > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting
> > > services
> > > >
> > >
> -
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> message
> > > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru')
> and in
> > > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You
> may
> > > > also send the HELP command for other information (like
> subscribing).
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > --
> > > Author: Anjo Kolk
> > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> --
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Re: Re: Re: _wait_for_sync , dirty buffer flushing and direct reads in parallel

[Tanel Poder]

:)

I admit, that I don't know either, which processes are affected by this parameter.
If foreground ones are, that should mean that after posting lgwr, they won't wait on 
semaphore and continue their work.

If it affects lgwr, it means that lgwr posts the waiting processes immediately "back" 
before writing to disk.

I'm too lazy now, but it can probably be figured out by tracing semop() syscalls... or 
maybe Steve Adams happens to read this post :)

About "scientific" test results, the results I posted earlier, they were done exactly 
on same hardware, with same dataset and from same  starting point. Enough scientific 
for me.

Tanel.

> I think my understanding was wrong. _wait_for_sync actually only
> changes the
> behavior of foreground processes. When set to false, they don't wait
> for
> LGWR
> to write redo records to disk; instead they continue to do their work
> as if
> log
> file sync already finished. It *does not* change any behavior of LGWR,
> notification or not. Correct me if I'm wrong again.
> 
> I'm still interested in Tanel's benchmark, though. Only that is
> scientific.
> 
> Yong Huang
> 
> --- Yong Huang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, i.e. myself, wrote a few minutes
> ago:
> > Tanel,
> >
> > Did you observe better performance? By how much? Do please let us
> know!
> >
> > From what I read, _wait_for_sync when set to false means LGWR
> immediately
> > notifies user (foreground) processes that redo record writes are
> done
> (even
> > though they're not). When you say the parameter only affects LGWR,
> you
> need
> > to
> > clarify what you mean by "affect"; it changes the notification
> (posting)
> > behavior of LGWR therefore changes the behavior of waiting processes
> (*when*
> > they stop waiting). Just semantics.
> >
> > Yong Huang
> >
> > --- Tanel Poder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Anjo,
> > >
> > > I also thought it affects only lgwr sync, but Jonathan Lewis once
> told
> that
> > > it affects any disk writes...
> > >
> > > If it affects only lgwr, then great, I can make Apps upgrades,
> which do
> > > really lots of DDLs and small transactions, quite much faster that
> way...
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > > Tanel.
> > >
> > >
> > > > _wait_for_sync basically meant that a session is waiting for
> the sync
> > > > of the
> > > > redo by the lgwr. Normally the redo log writer writes to disk
> and then
> > > > notifies the session that the transaction is completed. By
> setting
> > > > this to
> > > > false, you no longer wait for the redo to go to disk.
> > > >
> > > > That has no impact on your situation.
> > > >
> > > > Anjo.
> 
> 
> __
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> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Yong Huang
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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> 

Re: Re: RE: Re: Stop using SYS, SYSTEM?

[Nuno Souto]

Facetious, but correct. What you need
is auditing. Not clipping userids.
Achieves nothing.

Cheers
Nuno Souto
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 

> What I was saying is that having a different username for each DBA helps you 
> identify the WHOM. Of course a hacker
could always cut knock the DBA unconscious and prop up his head to fool an eye retina 
scan, à la James Bond, but by that
argument any username or IP address or whatever else you use is meaningless.
> -- 

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RE: Re: RE: Re: Stop using SYS, SYSTEM?

[Jacques Kilchoer]

> -Original Message-
> Nuno Pinto do Souto
> 
> I don't want to know that SYSTEM or SOUTON with a subset
> of its rights stuffed up my database or exported my main accounts
> and clients tables.  What I want to know is WHY, WHEN, HOW and 
> by WHOM.

What I was saying is that having a different username for each DBA helps you identify 
the WHOM. Of course a hacker could always cut knock the DBA unconscious and prop up 
his head to fool an eye retina scan, à la James Bond, but by that argument any 
username or IP address or whatever else you use is meaningless.
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RE: Re: RE: Re: Stop using SYS, SYSTEM?

[Cupp Michael E Contr Det 1 AFRL/WSI]

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 10:49 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


>Stopping someone from using a given set of accounts achieves preciously 
>nothing in terms of security (or auditing) IF the functionality of those >accounts 
>is then replicated to other accounts.


Not if someone (I.e. an 'operator') is only using a portion of the access (COMPLETE) 
that is given to sys and/or system.


>Fact is a DBA needs to be able to exp/imp (debatable, but let's ignore >that).  
>And manage rights.  And manage space.  And manage allocations,
>And monitor the system.  And a myriad of other tasks immaterial to the 
>point I'm trying to make.

But a user account for Joe DBA and another user account for Jane DBA, etc, etc will 
provide accountability and tracability, vs a 'public' account does not.


Just my $0.02
-- 
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Re: Re: RE: Re: Stop using SYS, SYSTEM?

[Nuno Pinto do Souto]

> Arup Nanda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm not sure that's what the OP wanted. He wanted to know if stopping
> use of
> SYS and SYSTEM on a regular basis will be acceptable, not "disable"
> them. It
> sure is.
> Besides, how does one disable the account? Lock it? SYSTEM can be
> locked but
> SYS can't be; hence the whole concept of disabling does not make
> sense.


I hear what you're saying, but define "acceptable".  And how do you stop 
someone from using a given userid other than disabling it?  How do you 
disable is of course dependent on what the software maker provides you.

In the case of SYS, probably change passwords is the only way.
In the case of SYSTEM I think it can be disabled, although I'm not
sure of the impact of that on tools that may need it.  I'd rather use the 
password method, that way all I need do to "enable" it is change
the password again.


> I feel the auditors merely wanted the OP to stop using SYS and SYSTEM
> on a
> regular basis in operations that require a DBA access - such as full
> exports
> and selecting from disctionary tables. IMHO this is a very valid
> advisory
> and not difficult to follow.


Stopping someone from using a given set of accounts achieves preciously 
nothing in terms of security (or auditing) IF the functionality of those accounts 
is then replicated to other accounts.


Fact is a DBA needs to be able to exp/imp (debatable, but let's ignore that).  
And manage rights.  And manage space.  And manage allocations,
And monitor the system.  And a myriad of other tasks immaterial to the 
point I'm trying to make.


Those are conveniently provided for by Oracle on a default install using
the SYSTEM account.  This is what it is for, this is the work of a DBA,
this is WHY that account has been given those access rights.  SYS is
debatable and Oracle may now want to discourage people from using
it.  Fair enough.  But SYSTEM is the DBA account par excellence,
the same that root is also a sysadmin account.


Now you may take away the accounts, but you MUST provide the
functionality (or a subset) SOMEHOW, or else the DBA (or the sysadmin) 
can NOT do his/her work.


If you provide the function through another account, then EFFECTIVELY,
all you have achievced is change the name of the account that does that
function.  Security wise, you are back exactly where you started!
And all you have achieved is create a whole lot of risks for the next
person that comes along and installs some software.


The auditors should be defining a set of functions that must be audited
and to what level, and the DBA (and Oracle!) should look at how to 
implement those.  If they are executed by logonid  A, B or MXYZPTLK
is essentially just spurious information (other than of course knowing
WHO has the password for that ID!).  Does Oracle provide a facility
to properly audit all this?  IMHO, far from it.  But it's getting better.


I don't want to know that SYSTEM or SOUTON with a subset
of its rights stuffed up my database or exported my main accounts
and clients tables.  What I want to know is WHY, WHEN, HOW and 
by WHOM.  So that I can reconstruct the events, and hopefully prevent 
the problem from ever happening again.


Changing the login names DBAs use doesn't cut it for this, other than 
look good in "auditor's reports". If there is one thing that the military are 
good at (!) is in defining precisely what security and auditing consists
of.  

Have a look at a secure military installation and you'll find it's not about 
stopping people from using this or that, it's about KNOWING who
did what, how and when.

Cheers
Nuno Souto
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: RE: Re: Stop using SYS, SYSTEM?

[Arup Nanda]

Nuno Pinto do Souto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And that's why I feel disabling SYS or SYSTEM purely on
> "security" grounds makes no sense whatsoever

I'm not sure that's what the OP wanted. He wanted to know if stopping use of
SYS and SYSTEM on a regular basis will be acceptable, not "disable" them. It
sure is.

Besides, how does one disable the account? Lock it? SYSTEM can be locked but
SYS can't be; hence the whole concept of disabling does not make sense.

I feel the auditors merely wanted the OP to stop using SYS and SYSTEM on a
regular basis in operations that require a DBA access - such as full exports
and selecting from disctionary tables. IMHO this is a very valid advisory
and not difficult to follow.

Arup


- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 12:49 AM


> > Jacques Kilchoer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > In my case I also enforce the "don't sign on as SYS/SYSTEM" rule. The
> > reasons I do that:
> > - The default tablespace for SYS is SYSTEM, and I don't like to
> > change that. There are probably reasons why you wouldn't want to
> > change that. But when I sign on to do my DBA work to try something I
> > don't want to have to specify a tablespace name every time I create a
> > test object like CREATE TABLE TEST (X NUMBER) STORAGE (INITIAL 1000M)
>
> It has nothing to do with the dba role itself and its security.
> Oracle just happens to associate user SYS with the SYSTEM tablespace.
> Fair enough that you may not want that association by default.
>
> > - If each DBA has a named account, it's easy to tell who's logged in
> > to the database by saying
> > SELECT USERNAME FROM V$SESSION ;
> > otherwise I would have to figure out who could be logged on as SYSTEM
> > to call them and ask them if it's OK to shutdown the database.
>
> That is a pure audit requirement: you want to know who is using
> DBA access.  Nothing to do with SYSTEM.  If you remove SYS and SYSTEM,
> there is nothing in USERNAME in V$SESSION that will tell you username
> BLOGGSJ is using DBA rights.  Other than your own prior knowledge that
> is the case.  In a way, you're worse off.
>
> > Telling all the DBAs "sign on as SYSTEM" would be (IMHO) like telling
> > all the programmers "You can all sign on as user 'coder'" and all
> > users "you can all sign on in the database as user
> > 'data_entry_person'".
>
> Don't they always?  
>
> Quite frankly, the problem as I see it is that I want to know WHO
> "dropped the tablespace" and WHEN and from WHERE.
> That whoever did it had DBA access rights is a given, I don't need it
> clarified!
>
> It's the who, when and where that is the province of auditing.  And have
> nothing to do with SYS, SYSTEM or whatever, other than as information.
> Using or not using SYS or SYSTEM adds nothing to this knowledge or
> its implicit security.
>
> And that's why I feel disabling SYS or SYSTEM purely on "security" grounds
> makes no sense whatsoever.  Of course, one may want to reduce the
> risk of accidents and therefore lock those out.  Even then, debatable if
that is
> the best way of doing it: accidentaly "dropping the tablespace" produces
> the same chaotic results regardless of what account one does it from.
>
>
> Cheers
> Nuno Souto
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Nuno Pinto do Souto
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
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RE: RE: Re: Logical StandBy question

[Stephane Faroult]

I tried it on 9.2.0.3.0 running on two Linux machines. I doubt all bugs were fixed in 
9.2.0.4. I currently consider LSB to be a prototype, an interesting foretaste of 
things to come, but hardly more.
It of course depends on the size of the database, but couldn't you consider doing 
reporting on a Day - 1 database?
Might be simpler to use your hot backups and recreate a backup database every night. 
Or perhaps use snaphots (sorry, materialized views) - traditional replication (you 
don't need the 'advanced' stuff). If the production database can bear the overhead.
Anyway, if you are as lucky as I was, this is (rebuilding the database from your 
backups) what you may well end doing with LSB (plus the 26 step process each time - 
well, I wrote scripts to help).

HTH,

SF
>- --- Original Message --- -
>From: "Juan Miranda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:34:25
>
>
>I am just planning a LOGICAL data guard
>installation in an important client.
>They need it for reporting and backup (primary is
>24x7x365 and we have hot
>backup.)
>
>I didn?t kwon that LSB are so bad.
>
>So do you think It is so bad that you don?t put it
>into production ???
>
>Do you try 9.2.0.4 ??
>
>
>I need to take a decision
>
>I thank your previous answers.
>(I read doc, of course, but It is not explicity say
>that)
>  -Mensaje original-
>  De: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] nombre de
>Carel-Jan Engel
>  Enviado el: miercoles, 12 de noviembre de 2003
>19:59
>  Para: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>  Asunto: RE: Re: Logical StandBy question
>
>
>  Walt, drop me your email-address, and I send you
>the handouts of a special
>I presented about DG for Oracle University in
>Stockholm.
>
>  I'm going out now for a few hours (it's 19.30
>over here), but I'll respond
>later this evening.
>
>  regards, Carel-Jan
>  At 09:19 12-11-03 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Stephane,
>
>What sort of problems can one expect from
>logical standby?
>
>I'm toying with the idea of using it as a
>replication database -- no
>additional schema objects will be created, but
>users will have read-only
>access to it. It's one of the options I'm
>looking at.
>
>Seems to me like there was a thread on this a
>few months ago, but I'm
>not sure...
>
>--Walt
>
>On Wed, 2003-11-12 at 09:49, Stephane Faroult
>wrote:
>> Jose Luis,
>>
>>   What you say refers to the physical standby
>database (which works
>well),
>> not to the logical standby database (which on
>the paper looks great,
>allows you to open the database, create additional
>tablespaces, create
>additional indexes on replicated objects etc) but
>which in practice still
>has a lot of teething troubles. Wouldn't use it in
>production on Oracle 9.2.
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> SF
>>
>> >- --- Original Message --- -
>
>> >From: Jose Luis Delgado
>> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >Sent: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:09:27
>> >
>> >Hmm...
>> >
>> >I'd like to know where in the manuals... :-)
>
>> >
>> >I do not think so since the standby database
>stay
>> >in
>> >permanent recovery mode.
>> >
>> >JL
>> >
>> >--- Rachel Carmichael
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >wrote:
>> >> yes. Well documented in the manuals
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --- Juan Miranda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Hi
>> >> >
>> >> > It is posible to create other schemas on
>a
>> >logical
>> >> stand by database
>> >> > ?
>> >> >
>> >> > I mean, schemas that don?t exist in the
>primary
>> >
>> >> database.
>> >> > --
>> >> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
>> >> http://www.orafaq.net
>> >> > --
>> >> > Author: Juan Miranda
>> >> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> --
-- 
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Re: RE: Re: Stop using SYS, SYSTEM?

[Nuno Pinto do Souto]

> Jacques Kilchoer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In my case I also enforce the "don't sign on as SYS/SYSTEM" rule. The
> reasons I do that:
> - The default tablespace for SYS is SYSTEM, and I don't like to
> change that. There are probably reasons why you wouldn't want to
> change that. But when I sign on to do my DBA work to try something I
> don't want to have to specify a tablespace name every time I create a
> test object like CREATE TABLE TEST (X NUMBER) STORAGE (INITIAL 1000M)

It has nothing to do with the dba role itself and its security.  
Oracle just happens to associate user SYS with the SYSTEM tablespace.  
Fair enough that you may not want that association by default.

> - If each DBA has a named account, it's easy to tell who's logged in
> to the database by saying
> SELECT USERNAME FROM V$SESSION ;
> otherwise I would have to figure out who could be logged on as SYSTEM
> to call them and ask them if it's OK to shutdown the database.

That is a pure audit requirement: you want to know who is using
DBA access.  Nothing to do with SYSTEM.  If you remove SYS and SYSTEM,
there is nothing in USERNAME in V$SESSION that will tell you username 
BLOGGSJ is using DBA rights.  Other than your own prior knowledge that
is the case.  In a way, you're worse off.

> Telling all the DBAs "sign on as SYSTEM" would be (IMHO) like telling
> all the programmers "You can all sign on as user 'coder'" and all
> users "you can all sign on in the database as user
> 'data_entry_person'".

Don't they always?  

Quite frankly, the problem as I see it is that I want to know WHO
"dropped the tablespace" and WHEN and from WHERE.  
That whoever did it had DBA access rights is a given, I don't need it 
clarified!

It's the who, when and where that is the province of auditing.  And have 
nothing to do with SYS, SYSTEM or whatever, other than as information.  
Using or not using SYS or SYSTEM adds nothing to this knowledge or 
its implicit security.  

And that's why I feel disabling SYS or SYSTEM purely on "security" grounds 
makes no sense whatsoever.  Of course, one may want to reduce the 
risk of accidents and therefore lock those out.  Even then, debatable if that is
the best way of doing it: accidentaly "dropping the tablespace" produces 
the same chaotic results regardless of what account one does it from.


Cheers
Nuno Souto
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Re: Re: Migration

[Tanel Poder]

Well, I don't know about it's performance, but I think this conversion
doesn't require any temporary space, because the byte values of some
structures in blocks have to be swapped, and this a trivial operation.

I think it may still be faster, especially if we are dealing with huge
amounts of data, swapping bytes in blocks is faster than reading and parsing
data through buffer cache, transferring it over sqlnet and formatting +
writing it back to datablocks...

Tanel.

- Original Message - 
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 6:14 PM


> Tanel,
>
>   Any idea about speed and temporary storage requirements? Especially for
32G+ datafiles ;-) ?
>   Wondering if it will really be useful in practice, compared to what is
available today. Well, it may do for simpler operations, but not necessarily
faster.
>
> SF
>
> >- --- Original Message --- -
> >From: "Tanel Poder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:49:26
> >
> >You can't just copy over the files with os commands
> >and hope that Oracle
> >will somehow recognize them.
> >You have to use RMANs new convert tablespace
> >command to do the byte order
> >conversion.
> >
> >Tanel.
> >
> >- Original Message - 
> >To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 4:54 PM
> >
> >
> >> It raises an interesting question. As of today,
> >we have datafiles which
> >are OS dependent and _not_ binary compatible from
> >one system to another. We
> >upgrade to 10g and it will become magically binary
> >compatible. Which means
> >that the upgrade process will do more intimate
> >things than updating some
> >file header block, creating a couple of new tables
> >in the data dictionary
> >and recreating view.
> >>
> >> Has anybody tried to upgrade from 9.x to 10g yet,
> >on some database of
> >decent size ?
> >>
> >> SF
> >>
> >> >- --- Original Message --- -
> >> >From: "Yechiel Adar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 05:54:25
> >> >
> >> >Wait for 10g. They say that you could just copy
> >the
> >> >datafiles and them plug
> >> >them in to he new database, even across
> >platforms.
> >> >
> >> >Yechiel Adar
> >> >Mehish
> >> >- Original Message -
> >> >To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
> >> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 12:24 AM
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Hi List,
> >> >>
> >> >> Could someone please help me?
> >> >>
> >> >> Assumption situation - Platform migration of
> >> >Oracle DW on Oracle DB (data
> >> >> volume 3.5 TB) from HP-UX to IBM-AIX
> >> >>
> >> >> 1.. DB migration; it is correct to use
> >> >Export/Import technique/method in
> >> >> the above assumption?
> >> >> 2..  Witch is the time frame in a worst case
> >
> >> >for this (how many hours,
> >> >> days or weeks!!)?
> >> >> 3.. It is possible to apply the mentioned
> >> >technique or some other (witch
> >> >> one?) in uptime, totally or partially?
> >> >> 4.. Witches are the main tasks to consider
> >in a
> >> >planning schedule?
> >> >> 5.. Witches are the time frames associated
> >to
> >> >these tasks?
> >> >> Thanks
> >> >> Arm>o Teles
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> -- 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Stephane Faroult
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>


-- 
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-- 
Author: Tanel Poder
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Re: Re: Migration

[Stephane Faroult]

Tanel,

  Any idea about speed and temporary storage requirements? Especially for 32G+ 
datafiles ;-) ?
  Wondering if it will really be useful in practice, compared to what is available 
today. Well, it may do for simpler operations, but not necessarily faster.

SF

>- --- Original Message --- -
>From: "Tanel Poder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:49:26
>
>You can't just copy over the files with os commands
>and hope that Oracle
>will somehow recognize them.
>You have to use RMANs new convert tablespace
>command to do the byte order
>conversion.
>
>Tanel.
>
>- Original Message - 
>To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 4:54 PM
>
>
>> It raises an interesting question. As of today,
>we have datafiles which
>are OS dependent and _not_ binary compatible from
>one system to another. We
>upgrade to 10g and it will become magically binary
>compatible. Which means
>that the upgrade process will do more intimate
>things than updating some
>file header block, creating a couple of new tables
>in the data dictionary
>and recreating view.
>>
>> Has anybody tried to upgrade from 9.x to 10g yet,
>on some database of
>decent size ?
>>
>> SF
>>
>> >- --- Original Message --- -
>> >From: "Yechiel Adar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 05:54:25
>> >
>> >Wait for 10g. They say that you could just copy
>the
>> >datafiles and them plug
>> >them in to he new database, even across
>platforms.
>> >
>> >Yechiel Adar
>> >Mehish
>> >- Original Message -
>> >To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
>> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 12:24 AM
>> >
>> >
>> >> Hi List,
>> >>
>> >> Could someone please help me?
>> >>
>> >> Assumption situation - Platform migration of
>> >Oracle DW on Oracle DB (data
>> >> volume 3.5 TB) from HP-UX to IBM-AIX
>> >>
>> >>   1.. DB migration; it is correct to use
>> >Export/Import technique/method in
>> >> the above assumption?
>> >>   2..  Witch is the time frame in a worst case
>
>> >for this (how many hours,
>> >> days or weeks!!)?
>> >>   3.. It is possible to apply the mentioned
>> >technique or some other (witch
>> >> one?) in uptime, totally or partially?
>> >>   4.. Witches are the main tasks to consider
>in a
>> >planning schedule?
>> >>   5.. Witches are the time frames associated
>to
>> >these tasks?
>> >> Thanks
>> >> Arm>o Teles
>> >>
>> >>
>> -- 
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
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Re: Re: RE: Index behavior

[Saminathan]

Hi Wolfgang

Thanks  for your valuable information. But still I could not understand how the 
cardinality will be calculated in EXPLAIN PLAN?

In my query 
(1)AB% returns (220 rows selected) but (card=2)
(2)ABC% returns (207 rows selected) but (card=12607 )

Could someone please explain to me?

Thanks in advance
-Sami


-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 07:19:24 -0800

Actually, it has nothing to do with any of the table or index statistics.
OK, almost nothing. I suppose if Jonathan (Lewis) can get the optimizer to 
do a FTS on an umpteen billion row table to retrieve a single row by its 
prime key, one can concoct a scenario of statistics values, aided by init 
or session parameters, that would cause the CBO to use a full table scan to 
resolve "where name like 'AB%".
Back to the topic. I did a test and the situation is easily reproduceable. 
What happens is that as the like comparison string gets short, the 
selectivity of the predicate decreases ( if you look at the 10053 trace, 
the TBSEL value increases but that is the same paradoxon as with 
performance: if something gets faster, did its performance decrease? ) as 
one would expect. The TBSEL selectivity value and the rate of its increase 
depends on the length of the like comparison string and the average column 
length. When it gets down to the transition from ABC% to AB%, that trend 
breaks sharply and suddenly the selectivity increases by orders of 
magnitude ( TBSEL decreases by a huge factor ). for "like A%" it decreases 
again, but is still lower (depends on avg col length) than the selectivity 
of "like ABC%".
You can see that in the following test. The cardinality reflects the 
changes in the tbsel value (cardinality = tbsel * num_rows, which was 
10,000 for the test).

select id from sam where name like 'ABCDEFGHI%';
  card operation
- --
 1 SELECT STATEMENT
 1   TABLE ACCESS BY INDEX ROWID SAM
 1 INDEX RANGE SCAN SAM_IX

select id from sam where name like 'ABCDEFGH%';
  card operation
- ---
 1 SELECT STATEMENT
 1   TABLE ACCESS BY INDEX ROWID SAM
 1 INDEX RANGE SCAN SAM_IX

select id from sam where name like 'ABCDEFG%';
  card operation
- ---
57 SELECT STATEMENT
57   TABLE ACCESS FULL SAM

select id from sam where name like 'ABCDEF%';
  card operation
- ---
   100 SELECT STATEMENT
   100   TABLE ACCESS FULL SAM

select id from sam where name like 'ABCDE%';
  card operation
- ---
   178 SELECT STATEMENT
   178   TABLE ACCESS FULL SAM

select id from sam where name like 'ABCD%';
  card operation
- ---
   317 SELECT STATEMENT
   317   TABLE ACCESS FULL SAM

select id from sam where name like 'ABC%';
  card operation
- ---
   563 SELECT STATEMENT
   563   TABLE ACCESS FULL SAM

select id from sam where name like 'AB%';
  card operation
- ---
 2 SELECT STATEMENT
 2   TABLE ACCESS BY INDEX ROWID SAM
 2 INDEX RANGE SCAN SAM_IX

select id from sam where name like 'A%';
  card operation
- ---
   297 SELECT STATEMENT
   297   TABLE ACCESS FULL SAM

At 04:29 PM 11/5/2003, you wrote:
>Hi Goulet,
>
>The clustering factor on the index=37930
>number of distinct keys=38357
>number of leaf blocks=1075

Wolfgang Breitling
Oracle7, 8, 8i, 9i OCP DBA
Centrex Consulting Corporation
http://www.centrexcc.com 


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Re: RE: RE: Data Modeling

[bhabani s pradhan]

Thanks for the information. The thumb rule and all will definitely help me in 
modelling.

Thanks a Lot




Best Regards
B S Pradhan







On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 Michael Milligan wrote :
>Hi Again,
>
>What I do when a model is going to change is try to make it as flexible as
>possible from the start. Build more abstraction into the model than you
>normally would. Normalization is even more important here, even going to 4th
>or 5th form, or at least Boyce-Codd 3rd. You want to design it so that when
>someone wants to change the structure, it may be facilitated by the addition
>of a new record instead of a new column. A very simplistic example would be
>to have a separate address entity allowing for the possibility of multiple
>addresses per customer, instead of building the address attributes right
>into the customer entity. A good rule of thumb: whatever will change should
>be changeable by addition or subtraction of a row. Whatever won't change is
>a candidate for a column. That's a generalization, but a good rule
>nonetheless.
>
>Data Architect from Sybase, ER/Studio from Embarcadero, Erwin from Computer
>Associates are all good tools and easy to learn. QDesigner is the Data
>Architect physical modeler repackaged by Quest and sold for less. Excellent
>tool.
>
>Michael
>
>
>This e-mail, including attachments, may include confidential and/or
>proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity to
>which it is addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended
>recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified that
>any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. If
>you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying
>to this message and delete this e-mail immediately.
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
>--
>Author: Michael Milligan
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>-
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: RE: RE: Find an unprintable character inside a column....

[Jared . Still]

Definitely worth trying if you have a need for it.

I don't, and it's more work than I want to do just because I can.  








Mladen Gogala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 10/10/2003 01:44 PM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

        
        To:        Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
        cc:        
        Subject:        RE: RE: RE: Find an unprintable character inside a column


Actually, I was toying with the idea of writing an external 
procedure that would allow me to call pcre library 
(PCRE=Perl Compatible Regular Expressions) which would be nice,
but then again, the whole perl is available through the set 
of external procedures, so it wouldn't be very useful. 
External procedures can be used in the where clause, provided
they're declared as deterministic. Actually, it wouldn't be
that hard to extend 9.2 database with regular expressions.

On Fri, 2003-10-10 at 15:39, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I played with this a bit.
> 
> First, I created some test  data with one column corrupted with a
> single random character
> of 0-31 replacing a random char in that column 20% of the rows of the
> table.
> 
> Peter's function correctly found all of the rows in 7.5 seconds.
> 
> Stephane's function ran in 3.5 seconds, but didn't find any of
> the rows.  I didn't attempt to correct the code.
> 
> Then I tried a function based on owa_pattern.regex.  My initial
> attempts
> didn't return the correct rows, as the regex pattern needed some
> tuning.
> 
> I didn't attempt to fix it, as it was woefully slow, about 30 seconds.
> 
> Regex in the WHERE clause in 10g will be nice.
> 
> Jared
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Stephane Faroult"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent by:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  10/10/2003 07:09 AM
>  Please respond to
> ORACLE-L
>         
>         To:      
> Multiple recipients of
> list ORACLE-L
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>         cc:        
>         Subject:      
> RE: RE: RE: Find an
> unprintable character
> inside a column
> 
> 
> >Some people have requested this code, so I thought
> >you might as well all
> >have the chance to pick it to bits... Its a
> >function called BAD_ASCII, and
> >it hunts out for any ascii characters with an ascii
> >value of less than 32 in
> >a specified field. (Acknowledgments to my colleague
> >Keith Holmes for help
> >with this code.)
> >
> >Use it as follows:
> >
> >Where a field called DATA in a table TABLE_1 may
> >contain an ascci character
> >with a value less than 32 (ie a non-printing
> >character), the following SQL
> >will find the row in question:
> >
> >select rowid,DATA,dump(DATA) from TABLE_1 
> >where BAD_ASCII(DATA) > 0;
> >
> >You could use the PK of the table instead of rowid,
> >of course. You will also
> >note that I select the DATA field in both normal
> >and ascii 'dump' mode, the
> >better to locate where the corruption is located.
> >
> >peter
> >edinburgh
> >...
> >
> >Source as follows:
> >
> >
> >Function BAD_ASCII
> > (V_Text in char)
> > return number
> >is
> > V_Int  number;
> > V_Count number;
> >begin
> >--
> >V_Int                  := 0;
> >V_Count := 1;
> >while V_Count<=length(rtrim(V_Text)) and V_Int=0
> > loop
> >  if ascii(substr(V_Text, V_Count, 1))<32 then
> >   V_Int := V_Count;
> >  end if;
> > V_Count := V_Count + 1;
> >end loop;
> >return V_Int;
> >--
> >exception
> >  when others then
> >    return -1;
> >end BAD_ASCII;
> >/
> >
> 
> Peter,
> 
>   I think that you can make this code 25% faster when the data is
> clean (which hopefully is the general case) by using 'replace', more
> efficient than a PL/SQL loop, to check whether you have some rubbish
> (sort of). It will not tell you where the bad character is, however -
> which means that then you can loop to look for it.
> 
> Here is what I would suggest :
> 
> create or replace Function BAD_ASCII (V_Text in char) 
> return number 
> is 
>  V_Int number; 
>  V_Count number; 
> begin 
>  if (replace(V_text, chr(0)||chr(1)||chr(2)||chr(3)||
>                      chr(4)||chr(5)||chr(6)||chr(7)||
>                      chr(8)||chr(9)||chr(10)||chr(11)||
>                      chr(12)||chr(13)||chr(14)||chr(15)||
>                      chr(16)||chr(17)||chr(18)||chr(19)||
>                      chr(20)||chr(21)||chr(22)||chr(23)||
>  

RE: RE: RE: Find an unprintable character inside a column....

[Mladen Gogala]

Actually, I was toying with the idea of writing an external 
procedure that would allow me to call pcre library 
(PCRE=Perl Compatible Regular Expressions) which would be nice,
but then again, the whole perl is available through the set 
of external procedures, so it wouldn't be very useful. 
External procedures can be used in the where clause, provided
they're declared as deterministic. Actually, it wouldn't be
that hard to extend 9.2 database with regular expressions.

On Fri, 2003-10-10 at 15:39, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I played with this a bit.
> 
> First, I created some test  data with one column corrupted with a
> single random character
> of 0-31 replacing a random char in that column 20% of the rows of the
> table.
> 
> Peter's function correctly found all of the rows in 7.5 seconds.
> 
> Stephane's function ran in 3.5 seconds, but didn't find any of
> the rows.  I didn't attempt to correct the code.
> 
> Then I tried a function based on owa_pattern.regex.  My initial
> attempts
> didn't return the correct rows, as the regex pattern needed some
> tuning.
> 
> I didn't attempt to fix it, as it was woefully slow, about 30 seconds.
> 
> Regex in the WHERE clause in 10g will be nice.
> 
> Jared
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Stephane Faroult"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent by:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  10/10/2003 07:09 AM
>  Please respond to
> ORACLE-L
> 
> To:  
> Multiple recipients of
> list ORACLE-L
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> cc:
> Subject:  
> RE: RE: RE: Find an
> unprintable character
> inside a column
> 
> 
> >Some people have requested this code, so I thought
> >you might as well all
> >have the chance to pick it to bits... Its a
> >function called BAD_ASCII, and
> >it hunts out for any ascii characters with an ascii
> >value of less than 32 in
> >a specified field. (Acknowledgments to my colleague
> >Keith Holmes for help
> >with this code.)
> >
> >Use it as follows:
> >
> >Where a field called DATA in a table TABLE_1 may
> >contain an ascci character
> >with a value less than 32 (ie a non-printing
> >character), the following SQL
> >will find the row in question:
> >
> >select rowid,DATA,dump(DATA) from TABLE_1 
> >where BAD_ASCII(DATA) > 0;
> >
> >You could use the PK of the table instead of rowid,
> >of course. You will also
> >note that I select the DATA field in both normal
> >and ascii 'dump' mode, the
> >better to locate where the corruption is located.
> >
> >peter
> >edinburgh
> >...
> >
> >Source as follows:
> >
> >
> >Function BAD_ASCII
> > (V_Text in char)
> > return number
> >is
> > V_Int  number;
> > V_Count number;
> >begin
> >--
> >V_Int  := 0;
> >V_Count := 1;
> >while V_Count<=length(rtrim(V_Text)) and V_Int=0
> > loop
> >  if ascii(substr(V_Text, V_Count, 1))<32 then
> >   V_Int := V_Count;
> >  end if;
> > V_Count := V_Count + 1;
> >end loop;
> >return V_Int;
> >--
> >exception
> >  when others then
> >return -1;
> >end BAD_ASCII;
> >/
> >
> 
> Peter,
> 
>   I think that you can make this code 25% faster when the data is
> clean (which hopefully is the general case) by using 'replace', more
> efficient than a PL/SQL loop, to check whether you have some rubbish
> (sort of). It will not tell you where the bad character is, however -
> which means that then you can loop to look for it.
> 
> Here is what I would suggest :
> 
> create or replace Function BAD_ASCII (V_Text in char) 
> return number 
> is 
>  V_Int number; 
>  V_Count number; 
> begin 
>  if (replace(V_text, chr(0)||chr(1)||chr(2)||chr(3)||
>  chr(4)||chr(5)||chr(6)||chr(7)||
>  chr(8)||chr(9)||chr(10)||chr(11)||
>  chr(12)||chr(13)||chr(14)||chr(15)||
>  chr(16)||chr(17)||chr(18)||chr(19)||
>  chr(20)||chr(21)||chr(22)||chr(23)||
>  chr(24)||chr(25)||chr(26)||chr(27)||
>  chr(28)||chr(29)||chr(30)||chr(31),
>  '') 
>= V_text)
>  then
>return 0;
>  else
>V_Int := 0; 
>V_Count := 1; 
>while V_Count<=length(rtrim(V_Text)) and V_Int=0 
>loop 
>  if ascii(substr(V_Text, V_Count, 1))<32 then 
>

RE: RE: RE: Find an unprintable character inside a column....

[Jared . Still]

I played with this a bit.

First, I created some test  data with one column corrupted with a single random character
of 0-31 replacing a random char in that column 20% of the rows of the table.

Peter's function correctly found all of the rows in 7.5 seconds.

Stephane's function ran in 3.5 seconds, but didn't find any of
the rows.  I didn't attempt to correct the code.

Then I tried a function based on owa_pattern.regex.  My initial attempts
didn't return the correct rows, as the regex pattern needed some tuning.

I didn't attempt to fix it, as it was woefully slow, about 30 seconds.

Regex in the WHERE clause in 10g will be nice.

Jared







"Stephane Faroult" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 10/10/2003 07:09 AM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

        
        To:        Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
        cc:        
        Subject:        RE: RE: RE: Find an unprintable character inside a column


>Some people have requested this code, so I thought
>you might as well all
>have the chance to pick it to bits... Its a
>function called BAD_ASCII, and
>it hunts out for any ascii characters with an ascii
>value of less than 32 in
>a specified field. (Acknowledgments to my colleague
>Keith Holmes for help
>with this code.)
>
>Use it as follows:
>
>Where a field called DATA in a table TABLE_1 may
>contain an ascci character
>with a value less than 32 (ie a non-printing
>character), the following SQL
>will find the row in question:
>
>select rowid,DATA,dump(DATA) from TABLE_1 
>where BAD_ASCII(DATA) > 0;
>
>You could use the PK of the table instead of rowid,
>of course. You will also
>note that I select the DATA field in both normal
>and ascii 'dump' mode, the
>better to locate where the corruption is located.
>
>peter
>edinburgh
>...
>
>Source as follows:
>
>
>Function BAD_ASCII
> (V_Text in char)
> return number
>is
> V_Int  number;
> V_Count number;
>begin
>--
>V_Int                  := 0;
>V_Count := 1;
>while V_Count<=length(rtrim(V_Text)) and V_Int=0
> loop
>  if ascii(substr(V_Text, V_Count, 1))<32 then
>   V_Int := V_Count;
>  end if;
> V_Count := V_Count + 1;
>end loop;
>return V_Int;
>--
>exception
>  when others then
>    return -1;
>end BAD_ASCII;
>/
>

Peter,

   I think that you can make this code 25% faster when the data is clean (which hopefully is the general case) by using 'replace', more efficient than a PL/SQL loop, to check whether you have some rubbish (sort of). It will not tell you where the bad character is, however - which means that then you can loop to look for it.

Here is what I would suggest :

create or replace Function BAD_ASCII (V_Text in char) 
return number 
is 
  V_Int number; 
  V_Count number; 
begin 
  if (replace(V_text, chr(0)||chr(1)||chr(2)||chr(3)||
                      chr(4)||chr(5)||chr(6)||chr(7)||
                      chr(8)||chr(9)||chr(10)||chr(11)||
                      chr(12)||chr(13)||chr(14)||chr(15)||
                      chr(16)||chr(17)||chr(18)||chr(19)||
                      chr(20)||chr(21)||chr(22)||chr(23)||
                      chr(24)||chr(25)||chr(26)||chr(27)||
                      chr(28)||chr(29)||chr(30)||chr(31),
                      '') 
                    = V_text)
  then
    return 0;
  else
    V_Int := 0; 
    V_Count := 1; 
    while V_Count<=length(rtrim(V_Text)) and V_Int=0 
    loop 
      if ascii(substr(V_Text, V_Count, 1))<32 then 
        V_Int := V_Count; 
      end if; 
      V_Count := V_Count + 1; 
    end loop; 
    return V_Int; 
 end if;
-- 
exception 
  when others then 
    return -1; 
end BAD_ASCII; 
/ 

Regards,

Stephane Faroult
Oriole
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Stephane Faroult
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: RE: RE: Find an unprintable character inside a column....

[Stephane Faroult]

>Some people have requested this code, so I thought
>you might as well all
>have the chance to pick it to bits... Its a
>function called BAD_ASCII, and
>it hunts out for any ascii characters with an ascii
>value of less than 32 in
>a specified field. (Acknowledgments to my colleague
>Keith Holmes for help
>with this code.)
>
>Use it as follows:
>
>Where a field called DATA in a table TABLE_1 may
>contain an ascci character
>with a value less than 32 (ie a non-printing
>character), the following SQL
>will find the row in question:
>
>select rowid,DATA,dump(DATA) from TABLE_1 
>where BAD_ASCII(DATA) > 0;
>
>You could use the PK of the table instead of rowid,
>of course. You will also
>note that I select the DATA field in both normal
>and ascii 'dump' mode, the
>better to locate where the corruption is located.
>
>peter
>edinburgh
>...
>
>Source as follows:
>
>
>Function BAD_ASCII
> (V_Text in char)
> return number
>is
> V_Int  number;
> V_Count number;
>begin
>--
>V_Int   := 0;
>V_Count := 1;
>while V_Count<=length(rtrim(V_Text)) and V_Int=0
> loop
>  if ascii(substr(V_Text, V_Count, 1))<32 then
>   V_Int := V_Count;
>  end if;
> V_Count := V_Count + 1;
>end loop;
>return V_Int;
>--
>exception
>  when others then
>return -1;
>end BAD_ASCII;
>/
>

Peter,

   I think that you can make this code 25% faster when the data is clean (which 
hopefully is the general case) by using 'replace', more efficient than a PL/SQL loop, 
to check whether you have some rubbish (sort of). It will not tell you where the bad 
character is, however - which means that then you can loop to look for it.

Here is what I would suggest :

create or replace Function BAD_ASCII (V_Text in char) 
return number 
is 
  V_Int number; 
  V_Count number; 
begin 
  if (replace(V_text, chr(0)||chr(1)||chr(2)||chr(3)||
  chr(4)||chr(5)||chr(6)||chr(7)||
  chr(8)||chr(9)||chr(10)||chr(11)||
  chr(12)||chr(13)||chr(14)||chr(15)||
  chr(16)||chr(17)||chr(18)||chr(19)||
  chr(20)||chr(21)||chr(22)||chr(23)||
  chr(24)||chr(25)||chr(26)||chr(27)||
  chr(28)||chr(29)||chr(30)||chr(31),
  '') 
= V_text)
  then
return 0;
  else
V_Int := 0; 
V_Count := 1; 
while V_Count<=length(rtrim(V_Text)) and V_Int=0 
loop 
  if ascii(substr(V_Text, V_Count, 1))<32 then 
V_Int := V_Count; 
  end if; 
  V_Count := V_Count + 1; 
end loop; 
return V_Int; 
 end if;
-- 
exception 
  when others then 
return -1; 
end BAD_ASCII; 
/ 

Regards,

Stephane Faroult
Oriole
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Stephane Faroult
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: RE: Re[2]: Cary's book -- Out of stock !

[JayMiller]

I just ordered from Bookpool.  It's in stock according to their website.

Glad I took a few minutes to start cleaning up the listserv email, didn't
realize it was out yet.  Really looking forward to this one...

Jay Miller
Sr. Oracle DBA


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 1:15 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I believe this should answer your question:

Barnes & Noble.com   Your Order Has Been Shipped

Dear MLADEN GOGALA: 
Your order has been shipped, and the details appear below. Within 24 hours
of receiving this email, you may track the delivery status of your order at
http://www.dropshipexpress.com/tracking/tracking.asp?DCN=420066119102126


The book, which isn't available, according to Amazon, has been shipped by B
& N. It will probably be a big surprise, but my recommendation is definitely
Barnes & Noble.

On 2003.09.23 23:34, Prem Khanna J wrote:
> 24-09-2003 00:19:47, "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >I just read the first chapter on-line.  Now I gotta order the book.
> 
> Where Tom ? is it on Amazon or bookpool or B&N ... ?
> 
> 
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Prem Khanna J
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in 
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the 
> name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may also send 
> the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Mladen Gogala
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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command for other information (like subscribing).
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: RE: Re[2]: Cary's book -- Out of stock !

[Mladen Gogala]

I believe this should answer your question:

Barnes & Noble.com   Your Order Has Been Shipped

Dear MLADEN GOGALA: 
Your order has been shipped, and the details appear below. Within 24
hours of receiving this email, you may track the delivery status of your
order at
http://www.dropshipexpress.com/tracking/tracking.asp?DCN=420066119102126
The book, which isn't available, according to Amazon, has been shipped
by B & N. It will probably be a big surprise, but my recommendation is
definitely Barnes & Noble.
On 2003.09.23 23:34, Prem Khanna J wrote:
24-09-2003 00:19:47, "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:
>I just read the first chapter on-line.  Now I gotta order the book.

Where Tom ? is it on Amazon or bookpool or B&N ... ?

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Prem Khanna J
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
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 INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: RE: Re[2]: Cary's book -- Out of stock !

[Wolfgang Breitling]

http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/optoraclep/chapter/index.html

At 07:34 PM 9/23/2003 -0800, you wrote:
24-09-2003 00:19:47, "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I just read the first chapter on-line.  Now I gotta order the book.
Where Tom ? is it on Amazon or bookpool or B&N ... ?

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Prem Khanna J
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Wolfgang Breitling
Oracle7, 8, 8i, 9i OCP DBA
Centrex Consulting Corporation
http://www.centrexcc.com
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Wolfgang Breitling
 INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: RE: Re[2]: Cary's book -- Out of stock !

[Prem Khanna J]

24-09-2003 00:19:47, "Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I just read the first chapter on-line.  Now I gotta order the book.

Where Tom ? is it on Amazon or bookpool or B&N ... ?


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Prem Khanna J
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: RE: Re[2]: Cary's book -- Out of stock !

[Prem Khanna J]

Robert,

are u the author of 9i RMAN Book by Oracle Press ?
sorry for my ignorance.

If YES:
I have got a doubt in your book.
can i mail it to u ?

Jp.

23-9-2003 11:44:41, Freeman Robert - IL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I got my book... I got my book! From Amazon, delivered today!
>Woo Hoo looks good Cary!!
>RF



-- 
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-- 
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RE: Re: RE: tuning a massive delete

[Stephane Faroult]

Roy,

   NOT EXISTS is to be avoided when it is the only criterion - the subquery is 
executed for each row in the outer query. The way the CBO behaves varies wildly 
between 8.1.7 and 9.x. Richard's suggestion is quite correct and a fairly safe way to 
get a 'right' behaviour with most versions is to use an external join and test for 
NULL, as in

 select b.*
 from ani_prx b,
  bo_owner_stage.ani_prx a
 where a.cusip = b.cusip (+)
   and a.fund_no = b.fund_no (+)
   and a.add_cymd = b.add_cymd (+)
   and nvl(b.reccode, 'X') != 'V'
   and b.cusip is null

or something similar. Worth trying an explain. Even if the cost is not necessarily to 
be believed. MINUS would also be something I'd contemplate.

HTH,

SF

>- --- Original Message --- -
>From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:24:44
>
>i explain planned it and it was much worse than not
>exists.
>
>my understanding is hash_aj is faster when the
>table in the sub-query returns results that are
>significantly less than the one in the outer table.
>
>
>ill try it, but i think exists is faster. we dont
>want to do an index scan here and my hash_area_size
>isnt real big. 
>> 
>> From: "Richard Ji" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Date: 2003/09/17 Wed PM 12:04:56 EDT
>> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Subject: RE: tuning a massive delete
>> 
>> Try anti hash join.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 11:45 AM
>> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>> 
>> 
>> i have a table with 27 million records that is
>about 1.2 GB in size. I have a 'staging table' with
>18 million records. 16 million records have a
>'delete' flag. I have indexed the column in staging
>with a delete flag. both tables have indexed
>primary keys. Is the following my fastest option or
>would an 'IN' be faster? Im concerned because this
>has been running for a while and have alot of
>consistent gets but no 'writes' yet which tells me
>its still building the join. Our sort_area_size is
>rather small and Im not allowed to change it which
>tells me we are swapping to the temp tablespace. 
>> 
>> anyway to speed this up? or is this the fastest
>we got? 
>> 
>> 
>> create table ani_prx_new parallel (degree 5)
>nologging
>> as select *
>> from ani_prx b
>> where not exists (select 1 from
>bo_owner_stage.ani_prx a where ba_reccode = 'V' and
>a.cusip = b.cusip
>> and a.fund_no = b.fund_no and a.add_cymd =
>b.add_cymd)
>> 
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Stephane Faroult
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: RE: RE: Oracle Press OCP exam guide frustrations

[M Rafiq]

Jp,

No idea as never used. Pretty much happy with STS so far.

Regards
Rafiq


Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:09:44 -0800
Rafiq, How about "Boson Practice tests" compared to STS ?

has anyone on this list found Boson useful ?

Jp.

17-09-2003 13:34:36, "Caffrey, Melanie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>This is most likely the reason Oracle has now made it a requirement.  
Otherwise, who would ever take a course?
>
>	-Original Message-
>	From: M Rafiq [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>	Sent: Tue 9/16/2003 11:54 PM
>	To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>	Cc:
>	Subject: RE: RE: Oracle Press OCP exam guide frustrations
>
>
>
>	Not really, most of DBA on this list did their OCP without any Oracle 
formal
>	training. Use your experience on that version, study relevant material or
>	available books/docs, do practice of STS test questions and then you are
>	pretty much ready for exam.
>
>	I did my OCP from 7. to 9i without attending and formal course and passed 
in
>	first attempt
>
>	Regards
>	Rafiq



--
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_
Express yourself with MSN Messenger 6.0 -- download now! 
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Re: CORRECTION RE: RE: Re: SQL help needed

[Guido Konsolke]

Hi Stephane,

I commiserate with you 8-)

Regards,
Guido

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17.09.2003  10.44 Uhr >>>

create viex xdual
as select rownum ID
from sys.col$;

Cannot have a column named rownum ... Going to be a difficult day. And we are only 
half-week.

Regards,

Stephane Faroult
Oriole
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net 
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


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CORRECTION RE: RE: Re: SQL help needed

[Stephane Faroult]

create viex xdual
as select rownum ID
from sys.col$;

Cannot have a column named rownum ... Going to be a difficult day. And we are only 
half-week.

Regards,

Stephane Faroult
Oriole
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Re: RE: RE: Oracle Press OCP exam guide frustrations

[Prem Khanna J]

Rafiq, How about "Boson Practice tests" compared to STS ?

has anyone on this list found Boson useful ?

Jp.

17-09-2003 13:34:36, "Caffrey, Melanie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>This is most likely the reason Oracle has now made it a requirement.  Otherwise, who 
>would ever take a course?
>
>   -Original Message- 
>   From: M Rafiq [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>   Sent: Tue 9/16/2003 11:54 PM 
>   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
>   Cc: 
>   Subject: RE: RE: Oracle Press OCP exam guide frustrations
>   
>   
>
>   Not really, most of DBA on this list did their OCP without any Oracle formal
>   training. Use your experience on that version, study relevant material or
>   available books/docs, do practice of STS test questions and then you are
>   pretty much ready for exam.
>   
>   I did my OCP from 7. to 9i without attending and formal course and passed in
>   first attempt
>   
>   Regards
>   Rafiq



-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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Re: RE: RE: RE: RE: Bus Error (Urgent)

[Mladen Gogala]

As I've said earlier, take a look at the server. Look in the alert.log.
On 2003.09.12 19:09, bhabani s pradhan wrote:
yes that problem is resolved
actually there are two problems:
1] Solaris Error: 12: Not enough space
sys admin killed some processes and now other client machines can
connect and work on the db
2]tnsping and sqlplus on one particular client machine give
Bus Error (core dumped)
seems its a disk corruption error (can that be?)

 from oracle's side where else can i see for this "Bus Error (core
dumped)" error.
Regards
---
On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 Mladen Gogala wrote :
>Then, you have a problem with the number of processes on the OS
>level. The
>investigation should continue on the server.
>
>--
>Mladen Gogala
>Oracle DBA
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: bhabani s pradhan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 5:46 PM
> > To: Mladen Gogala
> > Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: Bus Error (Urgent)
> >
> >
> > its a 2gig memory
> >
> > shmsys:shminfo_shmmax=4294967295
> > shmsys:shminfo_shmmin=1
> >
> > parameter processes = 150
> >
> > and v$process returns 25
> >
> > ---
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 Mladen Gogala wrote :
> > >You don't have enough oracle processes on the server.
>Increase
> > >"PROCESSES"
> > >parameter.
> > >You might need to adjust SHMMAX and SEMMNS in /etc/system
> > >
> > >--
> > >Mladen Gogala
> > >Oracle DBA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: bhabani s pradhan
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 5:34 PM
> > > > To: Mladen Gogala
> > > > Subject: Re: RE: RE: Bus Error (Urgent)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > donot know much about unix
> > > > shell variables are exported
> > > >
> > > >  from the client machine it soes not return anything:
> > WW_WS> truss
> > > > -o /tmp/truss.out -af tnsping tradedb1 WW_WS>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > i got this from the listener.log
> > > >
> > > > 12-SEP-2003 11:24:45 *
> > > >
> >
> >(CONNECT_DATA=(SERVICE_NAME=TRADEDB1)(CID=(PROGRAM=)(HOST=trad
> > > > e-host2)(USER=rubix)))
> > > > * (ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=tcp)(HOST=10.10.8.27)(PORT=40838))
>*
> > establish
> > > > * TRADEDB1 * 12500
> > > > TNS-12500: TNS:listener failed to start a dedicated server
>process
> > > >   TNS-12540: TNS:internal limit restriction exceeded
> > > >TNS-12560: TNS:protocol adapter error
> > > > TNS-00510: Internal limit restriction exceeded
> > > >  Solaris Error: 12: Not enough space
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > ===
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 Mladen Gogala wrote :
> > > > >OK, this seems to have been created with netca. Are
>your
> > >shell
> > > > >variables
> > > > >exported? You should do "truss -o /tmp/truss.out -af
> > >tnsping
> > > > >tradedb1".
> > > > >That should tell you where does the error occur. Bus
>error
> > >means
> > > > >that the
> > > > >process cannot connect to the server. It's very similar
>in
> > >nature
> > > > >to
> > > > >ORA-3113.
> > > > >If it was oracle process you were trying to connect,
>you'd
> > >get an
> > > > >oracle
> > > > >error,
> > > > >but your're getting bus error, which means that the
>problem
> > >is on
> > > > >the OS
> > > > >level.
> > > > >Turn on tracing (TRACE_LEVEL=ADMIN in sqlnet.ora on
>both
> > >server
> > > > >and client)
> > > > >and
> > > > >see what that gives you. What else can you tell me? Is
> > >there
> > > > >anything
> > > > >unusual
> > > > >in that combination? Did it work before? What has
>changed?
> > >How
> > > > >much
> > > > >experience
> > > > >do you have with Unix and oracle?
> &g

Re: RE: RE: RE: RE: Bus Error (Urgent)

[bhabani s pradhan]

yes that problem is resolved
actually there are two problems:
1] Solaris Error: 12: Not enough space
sys admin killed some processes and now other client machines can 
connect and work on the db

2]tnsping and sqlplus on one particular client machine give
Bus Error (core dumped)

seems its a disk corruption error (can that be?)

 from oracle's side where else can i see for this "Bus Error (core 
dumped)" error.

Regards
---

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 Mladen Gogala wrote :
>Then, you have a problem with the number of processes on the OS 
>level. The
>investigation should continue on the server.
>
>--
>Mladen Gogala
>Oracle DBA
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: bhabani s pradhan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 5:46 PM
> > To: Mladen Gogala
> > Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: Bus Error (Urgent)
> >
> >
> > its a 2gig memory
> >
> > shmsys:shminfo_shmmax=4294967295
> > shmsys:shminfo_shmmin=1
> >
> > parameter processes = 150
> >
> > and v$process returns 25
> >
> > ---
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 Mladen Gogala wrote :
> > >You don't have enough oracle processes on the server. 
>Increase
> > >"PROCESSES"
> > >parameter.
> > >You might need to adjust SHMMAX and SEMMNS in /etc/system
> > >
> > >--
> > >Mladen Gogala
> > >Oracle DBA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: bhabani s pradhan 
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 5:34 PM
> > > > To: Mladen Gogala
> > > > Subject: Re: RE: RE: Bus Error (Urgent)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > donot know much about unix
> > > > shell variables are exported
> > > >
> > > >  from the client machine it soes not return anything:
> > WW_WS> truss
> > > > -o /tmp/truss.out -af tnsping tradedb1 WW_WS>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > i got this from the listener.log
> > > >
> > > > 12-SEP-2003 11:24:45 *
> > > >
> > 
> >(CONNECT_DATA=(SERVICE_NAME=TRADEDB1)(CID=(PROGRAM=)(HOST=trad
> > > > e-host2)(USER=rubix)))
> > > > * (ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=tcp)(HOST=10.10.8.27)(PORT=40838)) 
>*
> > establish
> > > > * TRADEDB1 * 12500
> > > > TNS-12500: TNS:listener failed to start a dedicated server 
>process
> > > >   TNS-12540: TNS:internal limit restriction exceeded
> > > >TNS-12560: TNS:protocol adapter error
> > > > TNS-00510: Internal limit restriction exceeded
> > > >  Solaris Error: 12: Not enough space
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > ===
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 Mladen Gogala wrote :
> > > > >OK, this seems to have been created with netca. Are 
>your
> > >shell
> > > > >variables
> > > > >exported? You should do "truss -o /tmp/truss.out -af
> > >tnsping
> > > > >tradedb1".
> > > > >That should tell you where does the error occur. Bus 
>error
> > >means
> > > > >that the
> > > > >process cannot connect to the server. It's very similar 
>in
> > >nature
> > > > >to
> > > > >ORA-3113.
> > > > >If it was oracle process you were trying to connect, 
>you'd
> > >get an
> > > > >oracle
> > > > >error,
> > > > >but your're getting bus error, which means that the 
>problem
> > >is on
> > > > >the OS
> > > > >level.
> > > > >Turn on tracing (TRACE_LEVEL=ADMIN in sqlnet.ora on 
>both
> > >server
> > > > >and client)
> > > > >and
> > > > >see what that gives you. What else can you tell me? Is
> > >there
> > > > >anything
> > > > >unusual
> > > > >in that combination? Did it work before? What has 
>changed?
> > >How
> > > > >much
> > > > >experience
> > > > >do you have with Unix and oracle?
> > > > >
> > > > >--
> > > > >Mladen Gogala
> > > > >

RE: RE: RE: RE: Bus Error (Urgent)

[Mladen Gogala]

Then, you have a problem with the number of processes on the OS level. The
investigation should continue on the server.

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA 



> -Original Message-
> From: bhabani s pradhan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 5:46 PM
> To: Mladen Gogala
> Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: Bus Error (Urgent)
> 
> 
> its a 2gig memory
> 
> shmsys:shminfo_shmmax=4294967295
> shmsys:shminfo_shmmin=1
> 
> parameter processes = 150
> 
> and v$process returns 25
> 
> ---
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 Mladen Gogala wrote :
> >You don't have enough oracle processes on the server. Increase
> >"PROCESSES"
> >parameter.
> >You might need to adjust SHMMAX and SEMMNS in /etc/system
> >
> >--
> >Mladen Gogala
> >Oracle DBA
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-----
> > > From: bhabani s pradhan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 5:34 PM
> > > To: Mladen Gogala
> > > Subject: Re: RE: RE: Bus Error (Urgent)
> > >
> > >
> > > donot know much about unix
> > > shell variables are exported
> > >
> > >  from the client machine it soes not return anything: 
> WW_WS> truss 
> > > -o /tmp/truss.out -af tnsping tradedb1 WW_WS>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > i got this from the listener.log
> > >
> > > 12-SEP-2003 11:24:45 *
> > > 
> >(CONNECT_DATA=(SERVICE_NAME=TRADEDB1)(CID=(PROGRAM=)(HOST=trad
> > > e-host2)(USER=rubix)))
> > > * (ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=tcp)(HOST=10.10.8.27)(PORT=40838)) * 
> establish 
> > > * TRADEDB1 * 12500
> > > TNS-12500: TNS:listener failed to start a dedicated server process
> > >   TNS-12540: TNS:internal limit restriction exceeded
> > >TNS-12560: TNS:protocol adapter error
> > > TNS-00510: Internal limit restriction exceeded
> > >  Solaris Error: 12: Not enough space
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > ===
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 Mladen Gogala wrote :
> > > >OK, this seems to have been created with netca. Are your
> >shell
> > > >variables
> > > >exported? You should do "truss -o /tmp/truss.out -af
> >tnsping
> > > >tradedb1".
> > > >That should tell you where does the error occur. Bus error
> >means
> > > >that the
> > > >process cannot connect to the server. It's very similar in
> >nature
> > > >to
> > > >ORA-3113.
> > > >If it was oracle process you were trying to connect, you'd
> >get an
> > > >oracle
> > > >error,
> > > >but your're getting bus error, which means that the problem
> >is on
> > > >the OS
> > > >level.
> > > >Turn on tracing (TRACE_LEVEL=ADMIN in sqlnet.ora on both
> >server
> > > >and client)
> > > >and
> > > >see what that gives you. What else can you tell me? Is
> >there
> > > >anything
> > > >unusual
> > > >in that combination? Did it work before? What has changed?
> >How
> > > >much
> > > >experience
> > > >do you have with Unix and oracle?
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >Mladen Gogala
> > > >Oracle DBA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -Original Message-
> > > > > From: bhabani s pradhan
> >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 5:03 PM
> > > > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > > > Cc: Mladen Gogala
> > > > > Subject: Re: RE: Bus Error (Urgent)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > both client and server on Sun OS 5.8
> > > > >
> > > > > ORACLE_HOME and ORACLE_SID in .profile
> > > > >
> > > > > tnsnames.ora
> > > > > 
> > > > > TRADEDB1 =
> > > > >(DESCRIPTION =
> > > > >  (ADDRESS_LIST =
> > > > >(ADDRESS = (PROTOCOL = TCP)(HOST = trade-db1)(PORT
> >=
> > > > > 1521))
> > > > >  )
> > > > >  (CONNECT_DATA =
> > > > >(SERVICE_NAME = TRADEDB1)
> > > 

RE: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door

[Nelson Flores]

At my university we were "given" Oracle licences .. as well as substantial
gifts from Sun (Servers, workstations etc)... that way we finished
University with good working knowledge of Solaris and Oracle on Solaris... 

Which is of course in their best interest... :S 


-Mensaje original-
De: Boivin, Patrice J [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Enviado el: jueves, 11 de septiembre de 2003 12:54
Para: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Asunto: RE: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door

Speaking of non-profit organisations, what is Oracle's policy on that?

Do they sell Oracle software to non-profit groups?

Probably it's a small market at best, but Personal Oracle might meet their
needs.

Another group that comes to mind are high schools and colleges, they might
want to purchase 1 or 2 licenses for their students to "play with".

Patrice.

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 12:39 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I used to work for a large but non profit organisation (.org) and we were
using Oracle, the sales rep never send us Christmas card for sure 

Stephane

-Original Message-
Mladen Gogala
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 11:30 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


There should be a low level pricing for home users, so that people who
download oracle may use metalink. I would pay for home support if it was
something like $150/ year for my Linux box. There should also be a low
price for small companies wih <16 users. One should be able to buy a 16
users
license for around $2000. I know a caterer that went with SQL Server because
of the price and development tools availability as well as the atitude of
the salesman
that he turned to. I know that a small CT caterer with 9 employees is not
Merryl-Lynch
or Chase, but it is a business nevertheless and having a database in there
buys a mindshare.
Caterers have to keep track of  the orders, ingredients and schedules and
they do need a
database. At present, there is a condescending attitude toward those people
and that
only helps our favorite company in Redmond, WA.

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Goulet, Dick
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 10:44 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door
>
>
> I believe Mr. Ellison is responding to a lot of market
> pressure, and failing DB sales.  I know it would be a relief
> here to see this inplace soon, but as always the "DEVIL is in
> the details".
>
> Dick Goulet
> Senior Oracle DBA
> Oracle Certified 8i DBA
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 6:59 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Nope, that's what voting machines are invented for.
> They work almost perfectly in almost every state.
>
> --
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Nuno Pinto do Souto
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 6:45 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door
> >
> >
> > > Boivin, Patrice J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Something like that at the bottom of this article:
> > >
> > > http://www.computerworld.com/news/2003/story/0,11280,84773,00.html
> > >
> >
> > "Counting processors is very hard. It's very hard to count users"
> >
> > I thought that's what count(*) was invented for?
> >
> > Larry can truly be the Prime Minister of the Bleeding Obvious
> > when he wants...
> >
> > Cheers
> > Nuno Souto
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author: Nuno Pinto do Souto
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> hosting services
> >
> -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru')
> > and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> > ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> > from).  You may also send the HELP command for other
> > information (like subscribing).
> >
>
>
>
>
> Note:
> This message is for the named person's use only.  It may
> contain confidential, proprietary or legally priv

RE: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door

[Stephane Paquette]

There is at least 2 Stephane : Stephane Faroult (Oriole), Stephane Paquette
(Standard Life)

Stephane

-Original Message-
Mladen Gogala
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 2:50 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Standard life? I thought that you work for Oriole corp.?

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Stephane Paquette
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 11:39 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door
>
>
> I used to work for a large but non profit organisation (.org)
> and we were using Oracle, the sales rep never send us
> Christmas card for sure 
>
> Stephane
>
> -Original Message-
> Mladen Gogala
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 11:30 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> There should be a low level pricing for home users, so that
> people who download oracle may use metalink. I would pay for
> home support if it was something like $150/ year for my Linux
> box. There should also be a low price for small companies wih
> <16 users. One should be able to buy a 16 users license for
> around $2000. I know a caterer that went with SQL Server
> because of the price and development tools availability as
> well as the atitude of the salesman that he turned to. I know
> that a small CT caterer with 9 employees is not Merryl-Lynch
> or Chase, but it is a business nevertheless and having a
> database in there buys a mindshare. Caterers have to keep
> track of  the orders, ingredients and schedules and they do
> need a database. At present, there is a condescending
> attitude toward those people and that only helps our favorite
> company in Redmond, WA.
>
> --
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf
> > Of Goulet, Dick
> > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 10:44 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: RE: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door
> >
> >
> > I believe Mr. Ellison is responding to a lot of market
> pressure, and
> > failing DB sales.  I know it would be a relief here to see this
> > inplace soon, but as always the "DEVIL is in the details".
> >
> > Dick Goulet
> > Senior Oracle DBA
> > Oracle Certified 8i DBA
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 6:59 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > Nope, that's what voting machines are invented for.
> > They work almost perfectly in almost every state.
> >
> > --
> > Mladen Gogala
> > Oracle DBA
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> > > Of Nuno Pinto do Souto
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 6:45 PM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: Re: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door
> > >
> > >
> > > > Boivin, Patrice J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Something like that at the bottom of this article:
> > > >
> > > >
> http://www.computerworld.com/news/2003/story/0,11280,84773,00.html
> > > >
> > >
> > > "Counting processors is very hard. It's very hard to count users"
> > >
> > > I thought that's what count(*) was invented for?
> > >
> > > Larry can truly be the Prime Minister of the Bleeding
> Obvious when
> > > he wants...
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Nuno Souto
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > --
> > > Author: Nuno Pinto do Souto
> > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
> http://www.fatcity.com
> > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> > hosting services
> > >
> >
> -
> > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
> 'ListGuru') and in
> > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> ORACLE-L (or the
> > > name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may also
> > > send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing)

RE: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door

[Stephane Paquette]

At the time, no policy. Yes we were paying for the software.

Small market but a lot of visibility : IATA (International Air Transport
Association), ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization) those 2 run
Oracle,  plus all the UN organizations are non profit organizations.



Stephane




-Original Message-
Boivin, Patrice J
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 12:54 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Speaking of non-profit organisations, what is Oracle's policy on that?

Do they sell Oracle software to non-profit groups?

Probably it's a small market at best, but Personal Oracle might meet their
needs.

Another group that comes to mind are high schools and colleges, they might
want to purchase 1 or 2 licenses for their students to "play with".

Patrice.

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 12:39 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I used to work for a large but non profit organisation (.org) and we were
using Oracle, the sales rep never send us Christmas card for sure 

Stephane

-Original Message-
Mladen Gogala
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 11:30 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


There should be a low level pricing for home users, so that people who
download oracle may use metalink. I would pay for home support if it was
something like $150/ year for my Linux box. There should also be a low
price for small companies wih <16 users. One should be able to buy a 16
users
license for around $2000. I know a caterer that went with SQL Server because
of the price and development tools availability as well as the atitude of
the salesman
that he turned to. I know that a small CT caterer with 9 employees is not
Merryl-Lynch
or Chase, but it is a business nevertheless and having a database in there
buys a mindshare.
Caterers have to keep track of  the orders, ingredients and schedules and
they do need a
database. At present, there is a condescending attitude toward those people
and that
only helps our favorite company in Redmond, WA.

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Goulet, Dick
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 10:44 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door
>
>
> I believe Mr. Ellison is responding to a lot of market
> pressure, and failing DB sales.  I know it would be a relief
> here to see this inplace soon, but as always the "DEVIL is in
> the details".
>
> Dick Goulet
> Senior Oracle DBA
> Oracle Certified 8i DBA
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 6:59 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Nope, that's what voting machines are invented for.
> They work almost perfectly in almost every state.
>
> --
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Nuno Pinto do Souto
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 6:45 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door
> >
> >
> > > Boivin, Patrice J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Something like that at the bottom of this article:
> > >
> > > http://www.computerworld.com/news/2003/story/0,11280,84773,00.html
> > >
> >
> > "Counting processors is very hard. It's very hard to count users"
> >
> > I thought that's what count(*) was invented for?
> >
> > Larry can truly be the Prime Minister of the Bleeding Obvious
> > when he wants...
> >
> > Cheers
> > Nuno Souto
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author: Nuno Pinto do Souto
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> hosting services
> >
> -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru')
> > and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> > ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> > from).  You may also send the HELP command for other
> > information (like subscribing).
> >
>
>
>
>
> Note:
> This message is for the named person's use only.  It may
> contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged
> information.  No confidentiality or privilege is waived or

RE: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door

[Mladen Gogala]

Standard life? I thought that you work for Oriole corp.?

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA 



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Stephane Paquette
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 11:39 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door
> 
> 
> I used to work for a large but non profit organisation (.org) 
> and we were using Oracle, the sales rep never send us 
> Christmas card for sure 
> 
> Stephane
> 
> -Original Message-
> Mladen Gogala
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 11:30 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> There should be a low level pricing for home users, so that 
> people who download oracle may use metalink. I would pay for 
> home support if it was something like $150/ year for my Linux 
> box. There should also be a low price for small companies wih 
> <16 users. One should be able to buy a 16 users license for 
> around $2000. I know a caterer that went with SQL Server 
> because of the price and development tools availability as 
> well as the atitude of the salesman that he turned to. I know 
> that a small CT caterer with 9 employees is not Merryl-Lynch 
> or Chase, but it is a business nevertheless and having a 
> database in there buys a mindshare. Caterers have to keep 
> track of  the orders, ingredients and schedules and they do 
> need a database. At present, there is a condescending 
> attitude toward those people and that only helps our favorite 
> company in Redmond, WA.
> 
> --
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> On Behalf 
> > Of Goulet, Dick
> > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 10:44 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: RE: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door
> >
> >
> > I believe Mr. Ellison is responding to a lot of market 
> pressure, and 
> > failing DB sales.  I know it would be a relief here to see this 
> > inplace soon, but as always the "DEVIL is in the details".
> >
> > Dick Goulet
> > Senior Oracle DBA
> > Oracle Certified 8i DBA
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 6:59 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > Nope, that's what voting machines are invented for.
> > They work almost perfectly in almost every state.
> >
> > --
> > Mladen Gogala
> > Oracle DBA
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
> > > Of Nuno Pinto do Souto
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 6:45 PM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: Re: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door
> > >
> > >
> > > > Boivin, Patrice J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Something like that at the bottom of this article:
> > > >
> > > > 
> http://www.computerworld.com/news/2003/story/0,11280,84773,00.html
> > > >
> > >
> > > "Counting processors is very hard. It's very hard to count users"
> > >
> > > I thought that's what count(*) was invented for?
> > >
> > > Larry can truly be the Prime Minister of the Bleeding 
> Obvious when 
> > > he wants...
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Nuno Souto
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > > --
> > > Author: Nuno Pinto do Souto
> > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 
> http://www.fatcity.com
> > > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> > hosting services
> > >
> > 
> -
> > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 
> 'ListGuru') and in 
> > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB 
> ORACLE-L (or the 
> > > name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may also 
> > > send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Note:
> > This message is for the named person's use only.  It may contain 
> > confidential, proprietary or

RE: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door

[Boivin, Patrice J]

Speaking of non-profit organisations, what is Oracle's policy on that?

Do they sell Oracle software to non-profit groups?

Probably it's a small market at best, but Personal Oracle might meet their
needs.

Another group that comes to mind are high schools and colleges, they might
want to purchase 1 or 2 licenses for their students to "play with".

Patrice.

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 12:39 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I used to work for a large but non profit organisation (.org) and we were
using Oracle, the sales rep never send us Christmas card for sure 

Stephane

-Original Message-
Mladen Gogala
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 11:30 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


There should be a low level pricing for home users, so that people who
download oracle may use metalink. I would pay for home support if it was
something like $150/ year for my Linux box. There should also be a low
price for small companies wih <16 users. One should be able to buy a 16
users
license for around $2000. I know a caterer that went with SQL Server because
of the price and development tools availability as well as the atitude of
the salesman
that he turned to. I know that a small CT caterer with 9 employees is not
Merryl-Lynch
or Chase, but it is a business nevertheless and having a database in there
buys a mindshare.
Caterers have to keep track of  the orders, ingredients and schedules and
they do need a
database. At present, there is a condescending attitude toward those people
and that
only helps our favorite company in Redmond, WA.

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Goulet, Dick
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 10:44 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door
>
>
> I believe Mr. Ellison is responding to a lot of market
> pressure, and failing DB sales.  I know it would be a relief
> here to see this inplace soon, but as always the "DEVIL is in
> the details".
>
> Dick Goulet
> Senior Oracle DBA
> Oracle Certified 8i DBA
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 6:59 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Nope, that's what voting machines are invented for.
> They work almost perfectly in almost every state.
>
> --
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Nuno Pinto do Souto
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 6:45 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door
> >
> >
> > > Boivin, Patrice J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Something like that at the bottom of this article:
> > >
> > > http://www.computerworld.com/news/2003/story/0,11280,84773,00.html
> > >
> >
> > "Counting processors is very hard. It's very hard to count users"
> >
> > I thought that's what count(*) was invented for?
> >
> > Larry can truly be the Prime Minister of the Bleeding Obvious
> > when he wants...
> >
> > Cheers
> > Nuno Souto
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author: Nuno Pinto do Souto
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> hosting services
> >
> -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru')
> > and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> > ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> > from).  You may also send the HELP command for other
> > information (like subscribing).
> >
>
>
>
>
> Note:
> This message is for the named person's use only.  It may
> contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged
> information.  No confidentiality or privilege is waived or
> lost by any mistransmission.  If you receive this message in
> error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from
> your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the
> sender.  You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose,
> distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you
> are not the intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of
> its subsidiaries each re

Re: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door

[Abey Joseph]

That same mentality applies to organizations with 100-200 users!  After the
latest meeting with the Oracle rep, damagement is seriously considering
alternate database systems.

Abey.

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 11:29 AM


> There should be a low level pricing for home users, so that people who
> download oracle may use metalink. I would pay for home support if it was
> something like $150/ year for my Linux box. There should also be a low
> price for small companies wih <16 users. One should be able to buy a 16
> users
> license for around $2000. I know a caterer that went with SQL Server
because
> of the price and development tools availability as well as the atitude of
> the salesman
> that he turned to. I know that a small CT caterer with 9 employees is not
> Merryl-Lynch
> or Chase, but it is a business nevertheless and having a database in there
> buys a mindshare.
> Caterers have to keep track of  the orders, ingredients and schedules and
> they do need a
> database. At present, there is a condescending attitude toward those
people
> and that
> only helps our favorite company in Redmond, WA.
>
> --
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Abey Joseph
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
-
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door

[Stephane Paquette]

I used to work for a large but non profit organisation (.org) and we were
using Oracle, the sales rep never send us Christmas card for sure 

Stephane

-Original Message-
Mladen Gogala
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 11:30 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


There should be a low level pricing for home users, so that people who
download oracle may use metalink. I would pay for home support if it was
something like $150/ year for my Linux box. There should also be a low
price for small companies wih <16 users. One should be able to buy a 16
users
license for around $2000. I know a caterer that went with SQL Server because
of the price and development tools availability as well as the atitude of
the salesman
that he turned to. I know that a small CT caterer with 9 employees is not
Merryl-Lynch
or Chase, but it is a business nevertheless and having a database in there
buys a mindshare.
Caterers have to keep track of  the orders, ingredients and schedules and
they do need a
database. At present, there is a condescending attitude toward those people
and that
only helps our favorite company in Redmond, WA.

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Goulet, Dick
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 10:44 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door
>
>
> I believe Mr. Ellison is responding to a lot of market
> pressure, and failing DB sales.  I know it would be a relief
> here to see this inplace soon, but as always the "DEVIL is in
> the details".
>
> Dick Goulet
> Senior Oracle DBA
> Oracle Certified 8i DBA
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 6:59 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Nope, that's what voting machines are invented for.
> They work almost perfectly in almost every state.
>
> --
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Nuno Pinto do Souto
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 6:45 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door
> >
> >
> > > Boivin, Patrice J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Something like that at the bottom of this article:
> > >
> > > http://www.computerworld.com/news/2003/story/0,11280,84773,00.html
> > >
> >
> > "Counting processors is very hard. It's very hard to count users"
> >
> > I thought that's what count(*) was invented for?
> >
> > Larry can truly be the Prime Minister of the Bleeding Obvious
> > when he wants...
> >
> > Cheers
> > Nuno Souto
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author: Nuno Pinto do Souto
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> hosting services
> >
> -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru')
> > and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB
> > ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> > from).  You may also send the HELP command for other
> > information (like subscribing).
> >
>
>
>
>
> Note:
> This message is for the named person's use only.  It may
> contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged
> information.  No confidentiality or privilege is waived or
> lost by any mistransmission.  If you receive this message in
> error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from
> your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the
> sender.  You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose,
> distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you
> are not the intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of
> its subsidiaries each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail
> communications through its networks.
> Any views expressed in this message are those of the
> individual sender, except where the message states otherwise
> and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of
> any such entity.
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: Mladen Gogala
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.f

RE: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door

[Mladen Gogala]

There should be a low level pricing for home users, so that people who 
download oracle may use metalink. I would pay for home support if it was 
something like $150/ year for my Linux box. There should also be a low
price for small companies wih <16 users. One should be able to buy a 16
users
license for around $2000. I know a caterer that went with SQL Server because
of the price and development tools availability as well as the atitude of
the salesman
that he turned to. I know that a small CT caterer with 9 employees is not
Merryl-Lynch 
or Chase, but it is a business nevertheless and having a database in there
buys a mindshare. 
Caterers have to keep track of  the orders, ingredients and schedules and
they do need a 
database. At present, there is a condescending attitude toward those people
and that
only helps our favorite company in Redmond, WA.

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA 



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Goulet, Dick
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 10:44 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door
> 
> 
> I believe Mr. Ellison is responding to a lot of market 
> pressure, and failing DB sales.  I know it would be a relief 
> here to see this inplace soon, but as always the "DEVIL is in 
> the details".
> 
> Dick Goulet
> Senior Oracle DBA
> Oracle Certified 8i DBA
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 6:59 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Nope, that's what voting machines are invented for. 
> They work almost perfectly in almost every state.
> 
> --
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA 
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Nuno Pinto do Souto
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 6:45 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door
> > 
> > 
> > > Boivin, Patrice J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > Something like that at the bottom of this article:
> > > 
> > > http://www.computerworld.com/news/2003/story/0,11280,84773,00.html
> > > 
> > 
> > "Counting processors is very hard. It's very hard to count users"
> > 
> > I thought that's what count(*) was invented for?
> > 
> > Larry can truly be the Prime Minister of the Bleeding Obvious
> > when he wants...
> > 
> > Cheers
> > Nuno Souto
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > -- 
> > Author: Nuno Pinto do Souto
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web 
> hosting services
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> -
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> > ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed 
> > from).  You may also send the HELP command for other 
> > information (like subscribing).
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note:
> This message is for the named person's use only.  It may 
> contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged 
> information.  No confidentiality or privilege is waived or 
> lost by any mistransmission.  If you receive this message in 
> error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from 
> your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the 
> sender.  You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, 
> distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you 
> are not the intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of 
> its subsidiaries each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail 
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RE: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door

[Goulet, Dick]

I believe Mr. Ellison is responding to a lot of market pressure, and failing DB sales. 
 I know it would be a relief here to see this inplace soon, but as always the "DEVIL 
is in the details".

Dick Goulet
Senior Oracle DBA
Oracle Certified 8i DBA

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 6:59 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Nope, that's what voting machines are invented for. 
They work almost perfectly in almost every state.

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA 



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Nuno Pinto do Souto
> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 6:45 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door
> 
> 
> > Boivin, Patrice J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > Something like that at the bottom of this article:
> > 
> > http://www.computerworld.com/news/2003/story/0,11280,84773,00.html
> > 
> 
> "Counting processors is very hard. It's very hard to count users"
> 
> I thought that's what count(*) was invented for?
> 
> Larry can truly be the Prime Minister of the Bleeding Obvious 
> when he wants...
> 
> Cheers
> Nuno Souto
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Nuno Pinto do Souto
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
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> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') 
> and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB 
> ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed 
> from).  You may also send the HELP command for other 
> information (like subscribing).
> 




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RE: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door

[Boivin, Patrice J]

I hope you were being sarcastic there Mladen...

Patrice.


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 7:59 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Nope, that's what voting machines are invented for. 
They work almost perfectly in almost every state.

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA 



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Nuno Pinto do Souto
> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 6:45 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door
> 
> 
> > Boivin, Patrice J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > Something like that at the bottom of this article:
> > 
> > http://www.computerworld.com/news/2003/story/0,11280,84773,00.html
> > 
> 
> "Counting processors is very hard. It's very hard to count users"
> 
> I thought that's what count(*) was invented for?
> 
> Larry can truly be the Prime Minister of the Bleeding Obvious 
> when he wants...
> 
> Cheers
> Nuno Souto
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Nuno Pinto do Souto
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') 
> and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB 
> ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed 
> from).  You may also send the HELP command for other 
> information (like subscribing).
> 




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Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender,
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-- 
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RE: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door

[Mladen Gogala]

Nope, that's what voting machines are invented for. 
They work almost perfectly in almost every state.

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA 



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Nuno Pinto do Souto
> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 6:45 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door
> 
> 
> > Boivin, Patrice J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > Something like that at the bottom of this article:
> > 
> > http://www.computerworld.com/news/2003/story/0,11280,84773,00.html
> > 
> 
> "Counting processors is very hard. It's very hard to count users"
> 
> I thought that's what count(*) was invented for?
> 
> Larry can truly be the Prime Minister of the Bleeding Obvious 
> when he wants...
> 
> Cheers
> Nuno Souto
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Nuno Pinto do Souto
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') 
> and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB 
> ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed 
> from).  You may also send the HELP command for other 
> information (like subscribing).
> 




Note:
This message is for the named person's use only.  It may contain confidential, 
proprietary or legally privileged information.  No confidentiality or privilege is 
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immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies 
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Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where 
the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the 
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-- 
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-- 
Author: Mladen Gogala
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: RE: RE: DB2 has a foot in the door

[Nuno Pinto do Souto]

> Boivin, Patrice J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> Something like that at the bottom of this article:
> 
> http://www.computerworld.com/news/2003/story/0,11280,84773,00.html
> 

"Counting processors is very hard. It's very hard to count users"

I thought that's what count(*) was invented for?

Larry can truly be the Prime Minister of the Bleeding Obvious
when he wants...

Cheers
Nuno Souto
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- 
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-- 
Author: Nuno Pinto do Souto
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Re: Re: should you seperate indexes from tables in seperate

[Nuno Pinto do Souto]

> why is it useful to seperate different i/o pattersn? such as
> multi-block reads and single block reads? 

Because (assuming adaptive I/O subsystems like EMC's and 
such) each gets optimized into different priority scales and 
device queues.  And of course if they are to the same device, they 
*may* interfere with each other.

Like I said: highly dependent on your I/O hardware.  Doesn't hurt to 
set it up so you can take advantage of any future expansion/upgrade.  
IOW, separate indexes and tables into individual tablespaces, not 
because of I/O performance considerations but because of the 
flexibility it gives you in adapting to future change.

The core of the OFA paper, really.  But I'll let Cary 
speak for that: it's his baby.

Cheers
Nuno Souto
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Re: RE: SHMMAX setting on Sun 4800 box

[Zhai Jingmin]

Thanks all ,this is a great list!



=== At 2003-06-26, 10:17:00 you wrote: ===

>Richard Ji,ÄúºÃ£¡
>Hi £¬ how do you know that ISM is used even if multiple shared memory 
> segment are used in solaris 8?
>   
>   
>
>>Matt,
>>
>>Your SGA can still be larger than 4G even if SHMMAX is not larger than
>>4G.  When SGA size > SHMMAX, mutilple shared memeory segements will
>>be allocated.  There used to be a claim that if you can fit the SGA
>>into a single shared memory segment, ISM will be used.  This might
>>be true for older version of Solaris, but I have seen ISM being used
>>even when mutiple shared memory segments are allocated on Solaris 8.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Richard
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 10:55 AM
>>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>>
>>
>>
>>As long as you're running 64-bit solaris and 64-bit oracle, you can set
>>SHMMAX to be larger than 4G, which will allow your SGA to be larger than
>>4G.  Keep an eye on your overall memory pressure, though, to make sure
>>you don't oversubscribe the system.  If you're running Solaris 8/9
>>and/or using some sort of direct i/o (raw devices, veritas, etc.) you're
>>good to go at that point.  If you're running 7 or 2.6 (can you even run
>>2.6 and 7 on the 4800?  I doubt it), you'll want to turn on
>>priority_paging in /etc/system to keep your sga from getting paged out
>>in favor of filesystem buffers.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Matt
>>
>>--
>>Matthew Zito
>>GridApp Systems
>>Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Cell: 646-220-3551
>>Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359
>>http://www.gridapp.com
>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
>>> Behalf Of Zhai Jingmin
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 5:34 AM
>>> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>>> Subject: SHMMAX setting on Sun 4800 box
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hello, List,
>>> 
>>> Our Sun Fire 4800 server have 8 CPUs and 16G memory.I set the 
>>> SHMMAX kernel parameter to 4294967295 according to 
>>> installation guide on metalink.The SHMMAX is "max shared 
>>> memory segment size".What's the relationship between SHMMAX 
>>> and max size of SGA?Because our oracle's SGA may exceed 
>>> 4G,can I set this parameter to 8G,10G?
>>> 
>>> Any suggestion is appreciated.
>>> 
>>> Thanks, 
>>> 
>>> Zhai Jingmin
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> 2003-06-26
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
>>> -- 
>>> Author: Zhai Jingmin
>>>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> 
>>> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
>>> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
>>> -
>>> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>>> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') 
>>> and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB 
>>> ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed 
>>> from).  You may also send the HELP command for other 
>>> information (like subscribing).
>>> 
>>
>>-- 
>>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
>>-- 
>>Author: Matthew Zito
>>  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
>>San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
>>-
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>>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>>-- 
>>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
>>-- 
>>Author: Richard Ji
>>  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
>>San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
>>-
>>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>
>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>   
>
>ÖÂ
>Àñ£¡
> 
>
>chao_ping
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>2003-06-27
>
>
>
>-- 
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
>-- 
>Author: chao_ping
>  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>-

RE: RE: RE: Top 10 DBA Do's and Don'ts anyone - Here is my list, comm

[Stephane Faroult]

>
>With the advent of quantum microbiology and the
>like, most informed
>people agree that 21st medicine is a science.
>However, medicine as
>practiced in the 17th century was definitely an
>art, not a science. The
>argument that "tuning" is an "art"--that it is
>subjective like a
>symphony or like cooking--is rapidly losing. The
>measuring tools that
>allow us to approach "tuning" as a completely
>scientific endeavor have
>been present in the Oracle kernel now for over a
>decade. And some of our
>community's members with so-called shallow-minded
>views are doing an
>excellent job of finally figuring out how to apply
>them.
>
>Cary Millsap
>Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
>http://www.hotsos.com
>

I would agree with you if what we had to tune were something immutable; I have always 
been more interested in moral philosophy than epistemology, but in my view one of the 
main features of 'science' is that it deals with the immutable laws of nature - as 
opposed to social sciences or economy, 'the dismal science', where the approach may be 
perfectly scientific but intuition and experience still have a huge part to play, not 
least because the ground keeps shifting and man is far from being the rational animal 
it is deemed to be.
As long as what I have to tune is more often than not issued from the wobbly logic of 
developers trying to implement sometimes no less wobbly business rules, as long as I 
often have to resist the temptation of blowing everything up and rewriting everything 
from scratch, I personally feel more on the side of craftsmanship than science.
 
Regards,

Stephane Faroult
Oriole
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
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Re: RE: Re: parallel index creation again:in which case, can we use p

[chao_ping]

Stephen Evans£¬ÄúºÃ£¡ 
   It seems your words are right, after i balanced my disk io and retest the index 
build, wait time during index parallel creation increases.
   I will retest my creation next morning.
Thanks.


 2003-02-13 06:38:00 ÄúÔÚÀ´ÐÅÖÐдµÀ£º 


tom, 

if the process is IO bound (ie consumes little cpu) then you can achieve a lot. 

thanks, 

steve 




"Mercadante, Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
02/12/2003 02:23 PM 
Please respond to ORACLE-L 

To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
cc: 
Subject:RE: Re: parallel index creation again:in which case, can we 
use p



If you only have one CPU, then is parallel either not supported, or simply a
waste of time?

I actually thought it was not supported.  If you only have one CPU, what do
you expect to gain?

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 12:54 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
p


My experience shows that a parallel degree of less than 4 is nearly always
slower than serial. 

I would recommend tring parallel degree of 4.

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 10:59 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
parallel with single cpu env?


Michael Ivanov,
 Hi, Thanks for your reply.
 In fact, I builded the index several times like, and 
the
result is persistent across difference test case:
 So, I think buffer is not the cause of the parallel
execution slower. But I really do not get other parameter to tune:(
 


SQL> set term on timing on echo on feedback on
SQL> alter session set sort_area_size = 1;

Session altered.

Elapsed: 00:00:00.01
SQL> create index idx_serial on viewcount( SID_LIST) nologging parallel
(degree 2) tablespace pqind;

Index created.

Elapsed: 00:18:01.36
SQL>  drop index idx_serial;

Index dropped.

Elapsed: 00:00:00.16
SQL> 
SQL>  create index idx_serial on viewcount( SID_LIST) nologging tablespace
pqind;

Index created.

Elapsed: 00:06:48.04
SQL>  drop index idx_serial;

Index dropped.

Elapsed: 00:00:00.06
SQL> 
SQL>  create index idx_serial on viewcount( SID_LIST) nologging parallel
(degree 2) tablespace pqind;

Index created.

Elapsed: 00:14:51.92
SQL>  drop index idx_serial;

Index dropped.

Elapsed: 00:00:00.13
SQL> 
SQL>  create index idx_serial on viewcount( SID_LIST) nologging;

Index created.

Elapsed: 00:06:26.23
SQL>  drop index idx_serial;

Index dropped.

Elapsed: 00:00:00.06
SQL> 
SQL>  create index idx_serial on viewcount( SID_LIST) nologging parallel
(degree 2) tablespace pqind;


Index created.

Elapsed: 00:14:44.58
SQL>  drop index idx_serial;

Index dropped.

Elapsed: 00:00:00.13
SQL> 
SQL>  create index idx_serial on viewcount( SID_LIST) nologging tablespace
pqind;

Index created.

Elapsed: 00:06:49.09
SQL>  drop index idx_serial;

Index dropped.

Elapsed: 00:00:00.07
SQL> 
SQL>  create index idx_serial on viewcount( SID_LIST) nologging parallel
(degree 2) tablespace pqind;

Index created.

Elapsed: 00:14:46.79
SQL>  drop index idx_serial;

Index dropped.

Elapsed: 00:00:00.14
SQL> 
SQL>  create index idx_serial on viewcount( SID_LIST) nologging tablespace
pqind;

Index created.

Elapsed: 00:06:44.51
SQL>  drop index idx_serial;

Index dropped.

Elapsed: 00:00:00.07






Regards
zhu chao
msn:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.happyit.net
www.cnoug.org(China Oracle User Group)

=== 2003-02-12 18:40:00 ,you wrote£º===

>Dear Chao.
>Did you try change order of index's creating- first noparallel, second with
parallel. I think you will look other results.
>
>> hi, dba friends:
>>  some paper said, pqo should only be used in SMP machines, while
others
>> say, We can also use pqo in uniprocessor machines in some case. I am
trying
>> to use parallel index creation in the following env:
>>
>> Dell 1650 with 3 scsi160 disks and 1 CPU and 2G memory.
>> Oracle 9.2
>> Table contains 2200 records,1.2GB
>> Table tablespace contains 3 datafiles , 400M, 400M and 600M, on seperate
3
>> disks. Index tablespace contains 3 datafiles, 200M, 200M and 200M on
>> seperate 3 disks.
>>
>>
>> SQL> set term on timing on echo on feedback on
>> SQL> alter session set sort_area_size = 1;
>> Session altered.
>> Elapsed: 00:00:00.01
>> SQL> create index idx_serial on viewcount( SID_LIST) nologging parallel
>> (degree 2) tablespace pqind; Index created. 
>> Elapsed: 00:18:01.36
>> SQL>  drop index idx_serial;
>> Elapsed: 00:00:00.16
>> SQL>  create index idx_serial on viewcount( SID_LIST) nologging
tablespace
>> pqind; Elapsed: 00:06:48.04
>>  This machine is exclusived used my me and It seems that PQO is
rather
>> slower than single thread. So is it still possible to use PQO on single
>> processor

Re: RE: Re[2]: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition

[dgoulet]

Dennis,
 We're going from 2 database servers to 1 for production. Therefore it's already
licensed as needed to be a standby served, saving us the extra dollars.

Dick Goulet

DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 2/11/03 1:54 pm:

Dick
   How is the standby database cheaper? I understood from previous list
discussions that you had to license the standby server as well.  As the hardware
and O/S become commodities, I think Oracle would like to avoid becoming a
commodity. Commodity prices are low, as any farmer can tell you. 
   But the further issue is "how do Oracle DBAs avoid becoming a commodity?".
Maybe the next question coming is "why should we pay more for a DBA when we're
getting the computer and software so cheap?"

Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 3:29 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Jared,

I don't know about the rest of the list members, but the company I work for
would like to have the technology but without the additional license expense. 
Therefore were going to do the standby database thing instead of RAC.  Now if
your into using Linux with low end PC's then maybe you can justify it.  I don't
know, it gives me the whillies when the software costs more than the hardware
and OS combined.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator Author: Jared Still
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/11/2003 8:29 AM


This is all cool technology, and fun stuff to play with.

It all begs the questions, 

"How many of us work for a business that actually need this?"

"Are they willing to pay $400/user $20k/CPU above the cost of Oracle 9i EE to
use it?"

"Are they willing to pay the extra overhead required to maintain it?"

I'm not sure the ROI is there for many of us.  Though downtime at our business
is somewhat expensive, I think that a failover system or even standby database
will provide adequate coverage for us, which is indeed a hot topic here right
now, after our Dell SAN put us out of business for 36 hours.  

RAC wouldn't have helped much there.  Niether would a cluster for that matter. 
Standby DB would have been perfect.

This whole push of RAC by Oracle reminds me very much of the mlife phone
campaign by ATT.  Do you really need to take pictures with your phone?  And what
is the point of sending text messages to someone elses phone when you could just
call them?

ATT needs you to buy this stuff, because they have it for sale.

I see RAC in  a similar light.  Do you need RAC?  Oracle needs you to 'need' it,
because they need some reason for you to spend more money on their product.

Jared



On Saturday 08 February 2003 21:23, Richard Ji wrote:  To those who are
interested in running RAC on Linux.  I know we have been talking about RAC on
linux lately.  This is great news  Redhat has made a special developer's edition
for their Advanced Server  which
> only costs $60!  So we don't have to shell out $699 for a copy of RHAS 2.1  to
play with RAC.
>
> http://www.redhat.com/software/advancedserver/developer/
>
> Have fun.
>
> Richard Ji
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Re: RE: RE: Oracle TEMPORARY SEGMENT

[chao_ping]

Whittle Jerome Contr NCI,
1.Temporary tablespace in oracle8i+ does not need coalesce, and Oracle do not 
deallocate used sort extents. This is a feature.
2.There is no pctincrease parameter in TEMPORARY tablespace.
SQL> /
 create temporary tablespace test_tmp tempfile '/home/oracle/temp.dd' size 10m default 
storage(pctincrease 0)
   *
ERROR at line 1:
ORA-25139: invalid option for CREATE TEMPORARY TABLESPACE


Elapsed: 00:00:00.04


[oracle@ish3 oracle]$ sql

SQL*Plus: Release 8.1.7.0.0 - Production on Tue Feb 11 23:31:50 2003

(c) Copyright 2000 Oracle Corporation.  All rights reserved.


Connected to:
Oracle8i Enterprise Edition Release 8.1.7.0.0 - Production
With the Partitioning option
JServer Release 8.1.7.0.0 - Production

SQL> alter tablespace temp default storage(pctincrease 0);
alter tablespace temp default storage(pctincrease 0)
*
ERROR at line 1:
ORA-03217: invalid option for alter of TEMPORARY TABLESPACE






Regards
zhu chao
msn:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.happyit.net
www.cnoug.org(China Oracle User Group)

=== 2003-02-11 08:39:00 ,you wrote£º===

>Hi,
>
>It does work on temporary (that are truly temporary and not permanent) tablespaces in 
>7.3.4 and 8.1.7. I use it when I don't want to wait for SMON to clean things up. Just 
>yesterday one our 'power users' ran SQL that selected from two tables with no join 
>between them. The resulting Cartesian set would have been over 3 billion records. The 
>same SQL also had a complex group by clause to eliminate all the duplicate records he 
>just created. It locked up after many hours because it filled the 1.2 GB TEMP 
>tablespace. I killed the process and ran my SQL to clean out the temp tablespace 
>quickly. BTW: I rewrote his SQL properly and it took less than a minute to return the 
>1036 records. 
>
>Jerry Whittle
>ASIFICS DBA
>NCI Information Systems Inc.
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>618-622-4145
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From:chao_ping [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> 
>> Whittle Jerome Contr NCI,
>>  I think your sql should not work on a really TEMPORARY tablespace, and 
>temporary tablespace do not need to be cleaned either.
>> 
>> Regards
>> zhu chao
>> msn:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> www.happyit.net
>> www.cnoug.org(China Oracle User Group)
>> 
>> === 2003-02-11 06:49:00 ,you wrote£º===
>> 
>> >Hi,
>> >
>> >This is what I use to clean up a temp tablespace. The tablespace is named 'temp' 
>and it is normally set to PCTINCREASE of 10. You will need to insert the correct 
>values for your temp tablespace. Altering the tablespace a little wakes us SMON which 
>will clean things up if it can.
>> >
>> >alter tablespace temp default storage(pctincrease 0);
>> >alter tablespace temp default storage(pctincrease 10);
>> >
>> >50Mb seems rather small for a temp tablespace.
>> >
>> >Jerry Whittle
>> >ASIFICS DBA
>> >NCI Information Systems Inc.
>> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >618-622-4145
>> >
>> >> -Original Message-
>> >> From: Zabair Ahmed [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> >> 
>> >> Is their any way of identifying which user/process is holding onto a temporary 
>segment. I've got a 50Mb temporary tablespace and there is a temporary segment which 
>is 47Mb which is not being freed up by SMON.
>> >> 
>> >> And, if i can't identify who is holding onto this TEMP segment, is their a way 
>in which I can delete it and stop the alert log being flooded with ORA-1652.
>> >> 
>> >> As I say the SMON is failing to clean up this TEMP segment and it's been 
>on-going for a number of days and I don't have the option of bouncing the database.
>> >> 
>> >> Oracle 8.1.7.3 on HP-UX 11.
>> >> 
>> >> TIA 
>> 

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =




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RE: Re: Re: to much time to execute query

[Stephane Faroult]

>
>Thanx Jared. That query waz pretty fast (0.78
>secs). Next time i wuld avoid using nested queries
>where joins can do the job. 
>
>regards
>Tc
>

Wrong conclusion. Jared gave you the best and simplest solution, but Sony implicitly 
pointed to your error.
Missing join condition.

Regards,

Stephane Faroult
Oriole
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Re: RE: RE: Upgrade from 7.3.4 to 8.0.6

[Cyril Thankappan]

Thanks for your reply.

Now I know whom to contact..for upgrades :)

Cyril

On Thu, 23 Jan 2003 Bowes, Chris wrote :
>A valid question.  With a pseudo-valid answer, which is: Because 
>there is no
>8i for hp-ux 10.20.  We have been asking for upgrades and all for 
>the last
>4+ years and the management answer is "do nothing until SAP is 
>completed".
>SAP was started in 1996 and is still not complete and will 
>probably not be
>until February of 2039.  I only received permission for the 8.0 
>upgrade
>because 8i requires 2 upgrades: hpux (since "sap may replace the 
>hp-ux
>boxes" I cannot get that conversion done) and oracle.  8.0.6 only 
>requires
>oracle.  Right now, I only have permission to convert 2 bases.  
>The other 6
>have to stay on 7.3.4, because "SAP may do away with that system, 
>so don't
>do any requests on it or spend any real time on it..."
>
>"They don't call this place the resume stain for nothing"  
>(Dilbert).
>
>--Chris
>
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 3:14 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>
>sorry for not being 'directly relevant'
>
>But I was just wondering why
>you were upgrading from 7.3.4 to 8.0.6
>(and then having to upgrade to 9.2)
>when Oracle has provided for an upgrade path
>  from 7.3.4 to 9.2
>
>Can you please let me know your reason
>for upgrading to 8.0.6
>
>Thanks
>
>Cyril
>On Wed, 22 Jan 2003 Hemant K Chitale wrote :
> >
> >So, did you have Replication setup in Oracle7 ?
> >Reading Note:51119.1 "Performing Command Line Migration with
> >MIG80 (Version 7 to 8.0)" ..
> >after opening the database OPEN RESETLOGS and running
> >CAT8000.sql, CATREP8M.sql is to be run ONLY if you
> >previously ran CATREP.sql under Oracle7.
> >
> >If you did not have the Replication Tabes setup in Oracle7,
> >DO NOT run CATREP8M.sql.  If you are planning to setup
> >Replication in Oracle8, run CATREP.sql after completing
> >the migration.  Of course, Replication setup should be
> >first done and tested in a test environment.
> >Hemant
> >
> >--- "Bowes, Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Hemant,
> > >
> > >  Thank you for your response.  I am calling it 
>directly.
> >I do
> > > the
> > > startup nomount, alter database convert, alter database 
>open
> > > resetlogs.
> > > Then I fire off the cat8000 and then the catrep8m from
> >svrmgrl.
> > >
> > > I think this is a problem in my dictionary in 7.3.4 as 
>when
> >I
> > > recreate the
> > > test base and do an export/import and convert the base, it
> >goes
> > > flawlessly.
> > > This base has limited downtime available, so I cannot do 
>that
> >to the
> > > live
> > > base.
> > >
> > > Oracle support has told me to look at offline datafiles, 
>but
> >this is
> > > in the
> > > system tablespace, so if that file was offline or needed
> >recovery,
> > > the base
> > > would be dead.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts?
> > >
> > > Thank you again,
> > >
> > > --Chris
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:55 AM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Are you calling the catrep8m script directly ?  Or is it
> >being
> > > called
> > > from some other script [eg catproc.sql ?].
> > > Are you using Advanced Replication ?
> > > Hemant
> > > At 02:28 PM 20-01-03 -0800, you wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi everyone!
> > >
> > >  Has anyone seen this and know a solution?  I am 
>upgrading
> >a
> > > base from
> > > 7.3.4 to 8.0.6.  Everything appears to go fine until the
> >catrep8m
> > > script.
> > > In that script I get several errors:
> > >
> > > Statement processed.
> > > (P.delivery_order < C.cscn)
> > >*
> > > ORA-00904: invalid column name
> > > grant select on defcalldest to select_catalog_role
> > > *
> > > ORA-00942: table or view does not exist
> > > comment on table DEFCALLDEST is
> > >  *
> > > ORA-00942: table or view does not exist
> > > comment on column DEFCALLDEST.CALLNO is
> > >   *
> > > ORA-00942: table or view does not exist
> > > comment on column DEFCALLDEST.DEFERRED_TRAN_ID is
> > >   *
> > > ORA-00942: table or view does not exist
> > > comment on column DEFCALLDEST.DBLINK is
> > >   *
> > > ORA-00942: table or view does not exist
> > > DROP PUBLIC SYNONYM defcalldest
> > > *
> > > ORA-01432: public synonym to be dropped does not exist
> > > Statement processed.
> > >   OR (P.delivery_order <
> >C.cscn
> > > *
> > > ORA-00904: invalid column name
> > > Statement processed.
> > > Statement processed.
> > > Statement processed.
> > >
> > > This then forces several dictionary packages invalid and 
>they
> >wont'
> > > recompile.
> > >
> > > I have tried rebuilding the dictionary before I upgrade 
>and
> > > rebuilding after
> > > I upgrade.   Neither one seems to work

Re: Re: RE: help me find out why rac instance died

[chao_ping]

Thanks for friends, 
I found the reason of my rac down.There is a cron that runs daily to sync the 
time with the time server. My sa added it without telling me.
And if i set the time back in one node, the instance on another node went 
down, with the same trace information. I tested it today.
Thanks.





Regards
zhu chao
msn:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.happyit.net
www.cnoug.org(ChinaOracle User Group)

=== 2002-12-23 00:38:00 ,you wrote£º===

>Thanks for your suggestion, i checked that article, but still unable to solve the 
>problem.
>The same time the next day, another instance in the cluster died, with the same 
>reason. ora-29740, still with reason 2.
>The cluster runs quite stable in the past month(since the patchset is installed, it 
>is just about 30 days).
>When i check the linux /var/log/messages, i found at the exact same time, syslogd 
>restarted in both node in the two days , when rac instance died. Whould there be some 
>relations between them?Unix did not rebooted ,I checked uptime value.
>From the trace file, i found it said the dead instance failed to transfer heart beat:
>first day, from the alive instace rac1:
>
>


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Re: Re: Re: RE: image storage confusion ?? --> UUDECODE

[Yechiel Adar]

On NTFS there is an allocation unit and the Os gives space in multiple of
allocations units which is 4k or 8k.
So if you use bfile you will waste 3k for each file, increasing your disk
space by 60%.

I am not sure about the size of the allocation unit.
Please verify this with your sysadmin.

Yechiel Adar
Mehish
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 8:03 AM


> Thanx Chao.
> Still under confusion , whether to store 20,000,000 images of 5k
> each either in
> -oracle 8.1.6 on win2k ( BLOB or BFILE ) 
> OR
> -   just on plain linux file system -
> OR
> - any file server like NetApp on linux ---
>
> which will be better ?
> how do people usually handle data of such volume ?
> plz let me know how it is done normally.
>
> TIA.
> Jp.
>
>
> On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 chao_ping wrote :
> >oraora  oraora,
> > For blob, it is ok, since it is all in the database, while for
> >bfile, you actually store them in filesystem, so you have to
> >backup those files indivudually.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Regards
> >zhu chao
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >www.happyit.net
> >www.cnoug.org(Chinese Oracle User Group)
> >
> >=== 2002-12-09 17:23:00 ,you wrote£º===
> >
> > >Guys,
> > >
> > >Suppose I store the images (~100G)in DB ( either as BLOB or
> >BFILE
> > >).
> > >I want to have a standby DB for this Prod. DB.
> > >Will there be any problem ? any known issues ?
> > >what are the things to be taken care of ???
> > >
> > >Kindly let me know Guys.
> > >
> > >TIA.
> > >Jp.
> > >
> > >
> > >On Wed, 04 Dec 2002 Connor McDonald wrote :
> > >>As Cary as mentioned, there's some new goodies in v9.
> > >>
> > >>In our case, the controlling of attachments etc is
> > >>done before processing into the db.  I can't remember
> > >>the specifics (read: I'm no longer at that site) but
> > >>we found some shareware (mimencode? + a few other
> > >>little things) we separated encoded emails into
> > >>separate files which then got processed into separate
> > >>lobs.
> > >>
> > >>Cheers
> > >>Connor
> > >>
> > >>  --- "MacGregor, Ian A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >>wrote: > Were doing the same thing with mail between
> > >> > collaborators on one of our physics projects.  But
> > >> > the volume is small, just unDer 250,000 so far.  Did
> > >> > the mail ou were saving contain attachments, and if
> > >> > so did you write any code to break off the
> > >> > attachment uudecode it and place it in a blob?  If
> > >> > so, I am keenly interested in that code.
> > >> >
> > >> > Is there a publicly available package to do uuencode
> > >> > and uudecode?
> > >> >
> > >> > Ian MacGregor
> > >> > Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
> > >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >> >
> > >> > -Original Message-
> > >> > Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 11:44 AM
> > >> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Exactly.
> > >> >
> > >> > We had a system that used to drag emails (from qmail
> > >> > so each mail was a file) into clobs in the database.
> > >> >
> > >> > After a year or so we had about 15 million emails in
> > >> > the database - no problems at all.
> > >> >
> > >> > Then one day the some idiot (aka me) put a new
> > >> > version
> > >> > of the program in which successfully loaded the clob
> > >> > but (to cut a long story short) started replicating
> > >> > the email files left, right and centre...It took
> > >> > literally days to clean up millions of (zero byte
> > >> > size) files...after which point that file system
> > >> > needed to be rebuilt anyway, the directory structure
> > >> > was in such a mess
> > >> >
> > >> > Cheers
> > >> > Connor
> > >> >
> > >> >  --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Arup,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > What Connor may have been referring to is the
> > >> > > inefficiency
> > >> > > of managing 20 million files in a filesystem.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > That's a lot of inodes ( assuming unix ).  It's a
> > >> > > bit much
> > >> > > for a filesystem to deal with.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Jared
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > "Arup Nanda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >> > > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >> > >  12/03/2002 07:14 AM
> > >> > >  Please respond to ORACLE-L
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > To: Multiple recipients of list
> > >> > ORACLE-L
> > >> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >> > > cc:
> > >> > > Subject:Re: image storage
> > >> > confusion
> > >> > > ??
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Connor,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I seem to think otherwise. Storing 100 GB of image
> > >> > > is not necessarily a
> > >> > > pretty proposition either when you consider hot
> > >> > > backups and archived log
> > >> > > generation, etc. I presume you are concerned about
> > >> > > the management of the
> > >> > > image files considering the sheer volume of it.
> > >> > But

Re: Re: Re: RE: image storage confusion ?? --> UUDECODE

[oraora oraora]

Thanx Chao.
Still under confusion , whether to store 20,000,000 images of 5k 
each either in
-oracle 8.1.6 on win2k ( BLOB or BFILE ) 
OR
-   just on plain linux file system -
OR
- any file server like NetApp on linux ---

which will be better ?
how do people usually handle data of such volume ?
plz let me know how it is done normally.

TIA.
Jp.


On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 chao_ping wrote :
>oraora  oraora,
>   For blob, it is ok, since it is all in the database, while for 
>bfile, you actually store them in filesystem, so you have to 
>backup those files indivudually.
>
>
>
>
>
>Regards
>zhu chao
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>www.happyit.net
>www.cnoug.org(Chinese Oracle User Group)
>
>=== 2002-12-09 17:23:00 ,you wrote£º===
>
> >Guys,
> >
> >Suppose I store the images (~100G)in DB ( either as BLOB or 
>BFILE
> >).
> >I want to have a standby DB for this Prod. DB.
> >Will there be any problem ? any known issues ?
> >what are the things to be taken care of ???
> >
> >Kindly let me know Guys.
> >
> >TIA.
> >Jp.
> >
> >
> >On Wed, 04 Dec 2002 Connor McDonald wrote :
> >>As Cary as mentioned, there's some new goodies in v9.
> >>
> >>In our case, the controlling of attachments etc is
> >>done before processing into the db.  I can't remember
> >>the specifics (read: I'm no longer at that site) but
> >>we found some shareware (mimencode? + a few other
> >>little things) we separated encoded emails into
> >>separate files which then got processed into separate
> >>lobs.
> >>
> >>Cheers
> >>Connor
> >>
> >>  --- "MacGregor, Ian A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>wrote: > Were doing the same thing with mail between
> >> > collaborators on one of our physics projects.  But
> >> > the volume is small, just unDer 250,000 so far.  Did
> >> > the mail ou were saving contain attachments, and if
> >> > so did you write any code to break off the
> >> > attachment uudecode it and place it in a blob?  If
> >> > so, I am keenly interested in that code.
> >> >
> >> > Is there a publicly available package to do uuencode
> >> > and uudecode?
> >> >
> >> > Ian MacGregor
> >> > Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
> >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> >
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 11:44 AM
> >> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Exactly.
> >> >
> >> > We had a system that used to drag emails (from qmail
> >> > so each mail was a file) into clobs in the database.
> >> >
> >> > After a year or so we had about 15 million emails in
> >> > the database - no problems at all.
> >> >
> >> > Then one day the some idiot (aka me) put a new
> >> > version
> >> > of the program in which successfully loaded the clob
> >> > but (to cut a long story short) started replicating
> >> > the email files left, right and centre...It took
> >> > literally days to clean up millions of (zero byte
> >> > size) files...after which point that file system
> >> > needed to be rebuilt anyway, the directory structure
> >> > was in such a mess
> >> >
> >> > Cheers
> >> > Connor
> >> >
> >> >  --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Arup,
> >> > >
> >> > > What Connor may have been referring to is the
> >> > > inefficiency
> >> > > of managing 20 million files in a filesystem.
> >> > >
> >> > > That's a lot of inodes ( assuming unix ).  It's a
> >> > > bit much
> >> > > for a filesystem to deal with.
> >> > >
> >> > > Jared
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > "Arup Nanda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > >  12/03/2002 07:14 AM
> >> > >  Please respond to ORACLE-L
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > To: Multiple recipients of list
> >> > ORACLE-L
> >> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > > cc:
> >> > > Subject:Re: image storage
> >> > confusion
> >> > > ??
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Connor,
> >> > >
> >> > > I seem to think otherwise. Storing 100 GB of image
> >> > > is not necessarily a
> >> > > pretty proposition either when you consider hot
> >> > > backups and archived log
> >> > > generation, etc. I presume you are concerned about
> >> > > the management of the
> >> > > image files considering the sheer volume of it.
> >> > But
> >> > > that's precisely what
> >> > > BFILE is expected to help with. The images are in
> >> > a
> >> > > file ssytem and the
> >> > > pointers are in the database and that's managed
> >> > > pretty well.
> >> > >
> >> > > However I do concede tht this might pose a problem
> >> > > on two fronts -
> >> > > (1) Security - beign on filesystem anyone can
> >> > > potentially see these.
> >> > > However
> >> > > this is not necesarily a concern at all sites.
> >> > Good
> >> > > OS security can
> >> > > prevent
> >> > > this.
> >> > > (2) Backup - the ssy admin has to explicitly
> >> > backup
> >> > > all these files. This,
> >> > > again, may not be that bad when you store your
> >> > files
> >> > > on a single

Re: Re: RE: image storage confusion ?? --> UUDECODE

[chao_ping]

oraora  oraora,
For blob, it is ok, since it is all in the database, while for bfile, 
you actually store them in filesystem, so you have to backup those files indivudually.





Regards
zhu chao
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.happyit.net
www.cnoug.org(Chinese Oracle User Group)

=== 2002-12-09 17:23:00 ,you wrote£º===

>Guys,
>
>Suppose I store the images (~100G)in DB ( either as BLOB or BFILE 
>).
>I want to have a standby DB for this Prod. DB.
>Will there be any problem ? any known issues ?
>what are the things to be taken care of ???
>
>Kindly let me know Guys.
>
>TIA.
>Jp.
>
>
>On Wed, 04 Dec 2002 Connor McDonald wrote :
>>As Cary as mentioned, there's some new goodies in v9.
>>
>>In our case, the controlling of attachments etc is
>>done before processing into the db.  I can't remember
>>the specifics (read: I'm no longer at that site) but
>>we found some shareware (mimencode? + a few other
>>little things) we separated encoded emails into
>>separate files which then got processed into separate
>>lobs.
>>
>>Cheers
>>Connor
>>
>>  --- "MacGregor, Ian A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>wrote: > Were doing the same thing with mail between
>> > collaborators on one of our physics projects.  But
>> > the volume is small, just unDer 250,000 so far.  Did
>> > the mail ou were saving contain attachments, and if
>> > so did you write any code to break off the
>> > attachment uudecode it and place it in a blob?  If
>> > so, I am keenly interested in that code.
>> >
>> > Is there a publicly available package to do uuencode
>> > and uudecode?
>> >
>> > Ian MacGregor
>> > Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
>> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 11:44 AM
>> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>> >
>> >
>> > Exactly.
>> >
>> > We had a system that used to drag emails (from qmail
>> > so each mail was a file) into clobs in the database.
>> >
>> > After a year or so we had about 15 million emails in
>> > the database - no problems at all.
>> >
>> > Then one day the some idiot (aka me) put a new
>> > version
>> > of the program in which successfully loaded the clob
>> > but (to cut a long story short) started replicating
>> > the email files left, right and centre...It took
>> > literally days to clean up millions of (zero byte
>> > size) files...after which point that file system
>> > needed to be rebuilt anyway, the directory structure
>> > was in such a mess
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> > Connor
>> >
>> >  --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Arup,
>> > >
>> > > What Connor may have been referring to is the
>> > > inefficiency
>> > > of managing 20 million files in a filesystem.
>> > >
>> > > That's a lot of inodes ( assuming unix ).  It's a
>> > > bit much
>> > > for a filesystem to deal with.
>> > >
>> > > Jared
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > "Arup Nanda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > >  12/03/2002 07:14 AM
>> > >  Please respond to ORACLE-L
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > To: Multiple recipients of list
>> > ORACLE-L
>> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > > cc:
>> > > Subject:Re: image storage
>> > confusion
>> > > ??
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Connor,
>> > >
>> > > I seem to think otherwise. Storing 100 GB of image
>> > > is not necessarily a
>> > > pretty proposition either when you consider hot
>> > > backups and archived log
>> > > generation, etc. I presume you are concerned about
>> > > the management of the
>> > > image files considering the sheer volume of it.
>> > But
>> > > that's precisely what
>> > > BFILE is expected to help with. The images are in
>> > a
>> > > file ssytem and the
>> > > pointers are in the database and that's managed
>> > > pretty well.
>> > >
>> > > However I do concede tht this might pose a problem
>> > > on two fronts -
>> > > (1) Security - beign on filesystem anyone can
>> > > potentially see these.
>> > > However
>> > > this is not necesarily a concern at all sites.
>> > Good
>> > > OS security can
>> > > prevent
>> > > this.
>> > > (2) Backup - the ssy admin has to explicitly
>> > backup
>> > > all these files. This,
>> > > again, may not be that bad when you store your
>> > files
>> > > on a single
>> > > filesystem
>> > > and a backup software can be easily programmed to
>> > > check only the changed
>> > > files,  based on timestamp.
>> > >
>> > > Just my two cents.
>> > >
>> > > Arup Nanda
>> > >
>> > > - Original Message -
>> > > To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L"
>> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 7:39 AM
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > Managing 20mil of anything (images/text/etc) in
>> > a
>> > > file
>> > > > system isn't a nice proposition.  Go with the
>> > > database
>> > > >
>> > > > hth
>> > > > connor
>> > > >
>> > > >  --- oraora  oraora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > > Guys , i posted this already and this time my
>> > > > > question is a bit
>> > > > > different .
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I  have to

RE: RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS

[Connor McDonald]

In some cases, NOT IN is better than NOT EXISTS.  In
other cases, the opposite is true.

Moral: It never pays to discount an option out of hand
- eg, NOT IN often works very very nicely for
uncorrelated subqueries

hth
connor

 --- "Post, Ethan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hold
the press.  NOT IN better than NOT EXISTS?  Is
> this theory or fact?  If
> so is there any supporting evidence out there?  This
> is the first I have
> heard of this.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 11:35 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Jerry,
> 
> I suspect that the improvments are more likely due
> to your
> rewriting the WHERE clause rather than the use of
> NOT EXISTS.
> 
> Especially if the database were 9i, where NOT IN
> actually
> seems get a better execution path than NOT EXISTS.
> 
> That original WHERE clause is really a piece of
> work.
> 
> Jared
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Post, Ethan
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
> http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> hosting services
>
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> E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
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> ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information
> (like subscribing). 

=
Connor McDonald
http://www.oracledba.co.uk
http://www.oaktable.net

"GIVE a man a fish and he will eat for a day. But TEACH him how to fish, and...he will 
sit in a boat and drink beer all day"

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
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RE: RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS

[Jared . Still]

Ethan,

A NOT EXISTS can be very expensive if returning large numbers
of rows from the driving table.  It's a correlated subquery as 
Stephane F. pointed out in another post.

Jared







"Post, Ethan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 11/15/2002 10:32 AM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
        Subject:RE: RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS


Hold the press.  NOT IN better than NOT EXISTS?  Is this theory or fact? 
If
so is there any supporting evidence out there?  This is the first I have
heard of this.

Thanks!

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 11:35 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Jerry,

I suspect that the improvments are more likely due to your
rewriting the WHERE clause rather than the use of NOT EXISTS.

Especially if the database were 9i, where NOT IN actually
seems get a better execution path than NOT EXISTS.

That original WHERE clause is really a piece of work.

Jared



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-- 
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).



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Re: RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS

[Greg Moore]

> Hold the press.  NOT IN better than NOT EXISTS?
> If so is there any supporting evidence out there?

I think you're joking, but if not there's a nice comparison chart of several
tests in Harrison, p. 268.

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS

[Post, Ethan]

Hold the press.  NOT IN better than NOT EXISTS?  Is this theory or fact?  If
so is there any supporting evidence out there?  This is the first I have
heard of this.

Thanks!

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 11:35 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Jerry,

I suspect that the improvments are more likely due to your
rewriting the WHERE clause rather than the use of NOT EXISTS.

Especially if the database were 9i, where NOT IN actually
seems get a better execution path than NOT EXISTS.

That original WHERE clause is really a piece of work.

Jared



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-- 
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS

[Jared . Still]

Jerry,

I suspect that the improvments are more likely due to your
rewriting the WHERE clause rather than the use of NOT EXISTS.

Especially if the database were 9i, where NOT IN actually
seems get a better execution path than NOT EXISTS.

That original WHERE clause is really a piece of work.

Jared





"Whittle Jerome Contr NCI" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 11/15/2002 08:21 AM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
        Subject:RE: RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS


I've seen worse. My programmers don't know how to use NOT EXISTS even 
though I've explained it many times. And that's the least of my problems. 
Look at this mess:
   SELECT * 
 FROM sar.pax_header_suspense_err_temp 
WHEREmanifest_type 
  || manifesting_station 
  || fiscal_year 
  || manifest_serial_number NOT IN ( 
 SELECTmanifest_type 
|| manifesting_station 
|| fiscal_year 
|| manifest_serial_number 
   FROM manifest_serial_number_history) 
Takes over an hour to run. I rewrote it as such: 
SELECT * 
  FROM sar.pax_header_suspense_err_temp t 
 WHERE NOT EXISTS 
(SELECT 'X' 
 FROM manifest_serial_number_history h 
 WHERE 
 t.manifest_type = h.manifest_type and 
 t.manifesting_station = h.manifesting_station and 
 t.fiscal_year = h.fiscal_year and 
   t.manifest_serial_number = h.manifest_serial_number ) 
Under a second. 
Jerry Whittle 
ACIFICS DBA 
NCI Information Systems Inc. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
618-622-4145 
-Original Message- 
Raj, 
I needed a 12 pack adter this one, it's from PeopleSlop: 
SELECT 0001560265,OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT,OPL.PRODUCTION_ID,OPL.OP_SEQUENCE, 
PID.INV_ITEM_ID,TMP.COST_ELEMENT,'04',0,0,0,0,0,0,PID.ORIG_UOM,PID.PRDN_AREA_COD 
E, 
PID.PRODUCTION_TYPE,OPL.QTY_SCRAPPED,OPL.PERCENT_COMP,' ',1,0,' ',' 
',00 
FROM PS_BU_ITEMS_INV INV,PS_SF_PRDNID_HEADR PID,PS_CE_OP_LIST_COPY OPL, 
PS_CE_OP_LIST_VW OPLIST,PS_SF_COMP_LIST CMP,PS_CE_ITEMVAR_TMP TMP 
WHERE INV.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND PID.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND OPLIST.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND CMP.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND TMP.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND TMP.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
AND OPL.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
AND OPLIST.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= PID.PRODUCTION_ID 
AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= CMP.PRODUCTION_ID 
AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= OPLIST.PRODUCTION_ID 
AND INV.INV_ITEM_ID= PID.INV_ITEM_ID 
AND ( OPL.OP_SEQUENCE= CMP.OP_SEQUENCE OR (CMP.OP_SEQUENCE = 0 AND 
OPL.OP_SEQUENCE =  OPLIST.OP_SEQUENCE)) 
AND PID.PROD_STATUS BETWEEN   '30'  AND  '60' 
AND TMP.INV_ITEM_ID= CMP.COMPONENT_ID 
AND TMP.CONFIG_CODE= CMP.CONFIG_CODE 
AND CMP.SOURCE_CODE <> '5' 
AND CMP.NON_OWN_FLAG = 'N' 
AND NOT EXISTS (SELECT 'X' FROM PS_CE_SCRAPCST_TMP TMP2 
   WHERE TMP2.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
   AND TMP2.BUSINESS_UNIT = OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT 
   AND TMP2.PRODUCTION_ID = OPL.PRODUCTION_ID 
   AND TMP2.OP_SEQUENCE = OPL.OP_SEQUENCE 
   AND TMP2.COST_ELEMENT= TMP.COST_ELEMENT) 
GROUP BY 
OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT,OPL.PRODUCTION_ID,OPL.OP_SEQUENCE,PID.INV_ITEM_ID, 
TMP.COST_ELEMENT,PID.ORIG_UOM,PID.PRDN_AREA_CODE,PID.PRODUCTION_TYPE, 
OPL.PERCENT_COMP,OPL.QTY_SCRAPPED 



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Re: RE: RE: dumping microsoft desktop?

[Ray Stell]

On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 05:59:06AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> OH, talk about cruel and unusual punishment!!  For the fish that is.


It is interesting that so many people feel this way and yet the topic
is reduced to joking, as if it is not possible (or really desirable) to
replace technology.  MVS systems programmers couldn't envision life
without an IBM mainframe a few years ago.  I asked the desktop question
because we are exploring this path due to huge budget issues and the
million dollar invoice to M$ is due.  I wanted to see if the Oracle
world had anything going on the topic.  Guess not.

Star and Open Office advances seem to be milestones in this arena.
I believe we will move some % of our admin desktops to linux this 
year as a pilot.  Departments can't afford the price of upgrading
their office software, they will try the open versions to see
what happens.

Interesting bullets:

The EU is studying the conversion of member goverment desktops:

www.globetechnology.com/servlet/ArticleNews/einsider/RTGAM/20021104/gtopenms/einsider/

 The European Union awarded on Thursday a $249,000 (U.S.) contract to
 U.K.-based system-integrator Netproject to study the feasibility of
 moving the information systems of several member countries'
 governments to the Linux operating system from Microsoft's Windows
 OS.

www.netproject.co.uk/opendesktop.html

 "The USA National Security Agency's white paper 'The Inevitability of
 Failure: The Flawed Assumption of Security in Modern Computing
 Environments' should be read by all who are concernd with achieving
 secure systems that enable e-business. This is at
 www.nsa.gov/selinux/inevit-abs.html."


...waiting for the 9.2.0.2 patch to finish on my Mandrake 9 desktop (see, 
it's not off topic! ;)







> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply Separator
> Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   11/14/2002 1:38 PM
> 
> Well, once upon a time there was an event called Boston Tea Party
> which dealt with too expensive product of low quality delivered by 
> a monopoly. I wonder whether we can expect Seattle Windows Party?
> Would that be too cruel to the fish in Seattle harbor?
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:dgoulet@;vicr.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 3:44 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re:RE: dumping microsoft desktop?
> > 
> > 
> > David,
> > 
> > Just like beauty, winning or loosing in a lawsuit is in 
> > the eye of the
> > beholder.  Actually in MicroSlop's case it was the justice 
> > department that
> > bailed and more than likely King George who sat on the judge. 
> >  You got to love
> > those political action committees and their BIG donors!!  In 
> > politics money
> > talks louder than anything else.
> > 
> > Dick Goulet
> > 
> > Reply Separator
> > Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Date:   11/14/2002 12:15 PM
> > 
> > 
> > > Both answers a are expected to be "No". The lawsuit is
> > > expected to be dropped. But who knows. They won
> > > antitrust case after all.
> > > 
> > > Nick
> > > 
> > 
> > I know it *seems* like they won, but Microsoft actually lost 
> > the antitrust
> > case. :-(
> > 
> > Dave
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > -- 
> > Author: 
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> > -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > -- 
> > Author: 
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> > San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> > -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> > 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Gogala, Mladen
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> 

RE: RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS

[Whittle Jerome Contr NCI]

Title: RE: RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS






I've seen worse. My programmers don't know how to use NOT EXISTS even though I've explained it many times. And that's the least of my problems. Look at this mess:

   SELECT *

 FROM sar.pax_header_suspense_err_temp

    WHERE    manifest_type

  || manifesting_station

  || fiscal_year

  || manifest_serial_number NOT IN (

 SELECT    manifest_type

    || manifesting_station

    || fiscal_year

    || manifest_serial_number

   FROM manifest_serial_number_history)


Takes over an hour to run. I rewrote it as such:


SELECT *

  FROM sar.pax_header_suspense_err_temp t

 WHERE NOT EXISTS 

(SELECT 'X' 

 FROM manifest_serial_number_history h

 WHERE

 t.manifest_type = h.manifest_type and 

 t.manifesting_station = h.manifesting_station and 

 t.fiscal_year = h.fiscal_year and

   t.manifest_serial_number = h.manifest_serial_number )


Under a second.


Jerry Whittle

ACIFICS DBA

NCI Information Systems Inc.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

618-622-4145


-Original Message-

From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]


Raj,


    I needed a 12 pack adter this one, it's from PeopleSlop:


SELECT 0001560265,OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT,OPL.PRODUCTION_ID,OPL.OP_SEQUENCE,

PID.INV_ITEM_ID,TMP.COST_ELEMENT,'04',0,0,0,0,0,0,PID.ORIG_UOM,PID.PRDN_AREA_COD

E,

PID.PRODUCTION_TYPE,OPL.QTY_SCRAPPED,OPL.PERCENT_COMP,' ',1,0,'  ','

',00 

FROM PS_BU_ITEMS_INV INV,PS_SF_PRDNID_HEADR PID,PS_CE_OP_LIST_COPY OPL,

PS_CE_OP_LIST_VW OPLIST,PS_SF_COMP_LIST CMP,PS_CE_ITEMVAR_TMP TMP 

WHERE INV.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 

AND PID.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 

AND OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 

AND OPLIST.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 

AND CMP.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 

AND TMP.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 

AND TMP.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 

AND OPL.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 

AND OPLIST.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 

AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= PID.PRODUCTION_ID 

AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= CMP.PRODUCTION_ID 

AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= OPLIST.PRODUCTION_ID 

AND INV.INV_ITEM_ID= PID.INV_ITEM_ID 

AND ( OPL.OP_SEQUENCE= CMP.OP_SEQUENCE OR (CMP.OP_SEQUENCE = 0 AND

OPL.OP_SEQUENCE =  OPLIST.OP_SEQUENCE)) 

AND PID.PROD_STATUS BETWEEN   '30'  AND  '60'  

AND TMP.INV_ITEM_ID= CMP.COMPONENT_ID 

AND TMP.CONFIG_CODE= CMP.CONFIG_CODE 

AND CMP.SOURCE_CODE <> '5' 

AND CMP.NON_OWN_FLAG = 'N' 

AND NOT EXISTS (SELECT 'X' FROM PS_CE_SCRAPCST_TMP TMP2 

   WHERE TMP2.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 

   AND TMP2.BUSINESS_UNIT = OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT 

   AND TMP2.PRODUCTION_ID = OPL.PRODUCTION_ID 

   AND TMP2.OP_SEQUENCE = OPL.OP_SEQUENCE 

   AND TMP2.COST_ELEMENT= TMP.COST_ELEMENT) 

GROUP BY OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT,OPL.PRODUCTION_ID,OPL.OP_SEQUENCE,PID.INV_ITEM_ID,

TMP.COST_ELEMENT,PID.ORIG_UOM,PID.PRDN_AREA_CODE,PID.PRODUCTION_TYPE,

OPL.PERCENT_COMP,OPL.QTY_SCRAPPED 

RE: RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS

[Mercadante, Thomas F]

Dick,

it's a beauty thing...

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 10:34 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Raj,

I needed a 12 pack adter this one, it's from PeopleSlop:

SELECT 0001560265,OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT,OPL.PRODUCTION_ID,OPL.OP_SEQUENCE,
PID.INV_ITEM_ID,TMP.COST_ELEMENT,'04',0,0,0,0,0,0,PID.ORIG_UOM,PID.PRDN_AREA
_COD
E,
PID.PRODUCTION_TYPE,OPL.QTY_SCRAPPED,OPL.PERCENT_COMP,' ',1,0,'  ','
',00 
FROM PS_BU_ITEMS_INV INV,PS_SF_PRDNID_HEADR PID,PS_CE_OP_LIST_COPY OPL,
PS_CE_OP_LIST_VW OPLIST,PS_SF_COMP_LIST CMP,PS_CE_ITEMVAR_TMP TMP 
WHERE INV.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND PID.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND OPLIST.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND CMP.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND TMP.BUSINESS_UNIT='VICOR' 
AND TMP.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
AND OPL.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
AND OPLIST.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= PID.PRODUCTION_ID 
AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= CMP.PRODUCTION_ID 
AND OPL.PRODUCTION_ID= OPLIST.PRODUCTION_ID 
AND INV.INV_ITEM_ID= PID.INV_ITEM_ID 
AND ( OPL.OP_SEQUENCE= CMP.OP_SEQUENCE OR (CMP.OP_SEQUENCE = 0 AND
OPL.OP_SEQUENCE =  OPLIST.OP_SEQUENCE)) 
AND PID.PROD_STATUS BETWEEN   '30'  AND  '60'  
AND TMP.INV_ITEM_ID= CMP.COMPONENT_ID 
AND TMP.CONFIG_CODE= CMP.CONFIG_CODE 
AND CMP.SOURCE_CODE <> '5' 
AND CMP.NON_OWN_FLAG = 'N' 
AND NOT EXISTS (SELECT 'X' FROM PS_CE_SCRAPCST_TMP TMP2 
   WHERE TMP2.PROCESS_INSTANCE=0001560265 
   AND TMP2.BUSINESS_UNIT = OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT 
   AND TMP2.PRODUCTION_ID = OPL.PRODUCTION_ID 
   AND TMP2.OP_SEQUENCE = OPL.OP_SEQUENCE 
   AND TMP2.COST_ELEMENT= TMP.COST_ELEMENT) 
GROUP BY
OPL.BUSINESS_UNIT,OPL.PRODUCTION_ID,OPL.OP_SEQUENCE,PID.INV_ITEM_ID,
TMP.COST_ELEMENT,PID.ORIG_UOM,PID.PRDN_AREA_CODE,PID.PRODUCTION_TYPE,
OPL.PERCENT_COMP,OPL.QTY_SCRAPPED 


Reply Separator
Author: "Jamadagni; Rajendra" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/15/2002 5:33 AM

Funny ... that Cary mentioned it 

Some developers here think that by setting some magic instance parameters we
can make all RBO tuned code run well under CBO ... (I just bought a 6 pack
of Mylanta yesterday ...)

Raj
__
Rajendra Jamadagni  MIS, ESPN Inc.
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com
Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc.

QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art!

Reply Separator
Author: "Cary Millsap" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/14/2002 10:34 AM

Hamid,

I'm sorry: Unless your SQL returns fewer than about 800,000 rows to the
calling application (or an aggregation of 800,000 rows), then the
statement "we have done all the necessary tuning on all the SQL queries"
is not yet true.

If your SQL does actually return about 800,000 rows, then it is time to
begin thinking about the mismatch between business processing
requirements and the logical structure of your data.

The answer to your problem is not in your instance parameters.


Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com







RE: RE: CONSISTANT GETS



Funny ... that Cary mentioned it 


Some developers here think that by setting some magic
instance
parameters we can make all RBO tuned code run well under CBO ... (I just
bought
a 6 pack of Mylanta yesterday ...)

Raj
__
Rajendra Jamadagni 
    MIS, ESPN Inc.
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com
Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect
that
of ESPN Inc. 
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an
art!


Reply
Separator
Author: "Cary Millsap"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   11/14/2002 10:34
AM


Hamid,


I'm sorry: Unless your SQL returns fewer than about 800,000
rows
to the
calling application (or an aggregation of 800,000 rows),
then
the
statement "we have done all the necessary tuning on
all
the SQL queries"
is not yet true.


If your SQL does actually return about 800,000 rows, then it
is
time to
begin thinking about the mismatch between business
processing
requirements and the logical structure of your data.


The answer to your problem is not in your instance
parameters.



Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com";
TARGET="_blank">http://www.hotsos.com




 
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Mercadante, Thomas F
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
-
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the 

RE: RE: RE: Double Take and Oracle

[Nick Wagner]

Title: RE: RE: RE: Double Take and Oracle





A little clarification


---cut---
The reasons for this are wrapped around Oracle's "write as little as needed and
do so as seldomly as possible" idea.
---end cut---


is not really true.  


When a tablespace is placed into hot backup mode, Oracle does not delay any writes to the datafiles.  It continues to write to them like nothing changed.  However, the major change (and performance hit) occurs because Oracle write more info to the redo logs.  Instead of just writing the changes for that row to the redo log, it will now write the entire database block to the redo log.  This is a reason why a lot of hot backup scripts, place only the tablespaces your are currently copying into hot backup mode.    




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 9:44 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re:RE: RE: Double Take and Oracle



Eva,


    First things first, Oracle gets to be a bear when your trying to move a
database as you are while it's running.  The first point to settle is that
Double Take is not doing something that is incompatible with Oracle, like making
an ASCII vs. BINARY copy of the datafiles.  To determine that you need to do a
move with the source/production database shutdown.  Yeah, I know that can be
hard to schedule but it's necessary.  If the copy won't start at that point then
Double Take is completely incompatible with Oracle and you can't go much
further.  Now if that passes, allow Double Take to copy the production DB to the
backup server and while it's doing so check the hotbackup status of the database
using the following:


    SELECT COUNT(*)
    FROM DBA_DATA_FILES DF, SYS.V_$BACKUP B
    WHERE FILE_ID = FILE#
    AND DF.STATUS = 'AVAILABLE'
    AND B.STATUS = 'ACTIVE';


The number you get back should equal the number of datafiles in your database. 
If it comes back as 0 then the database has not switched and the backup is
worthless.  You may have to do this manually before running Double Take.  Also
your production/source DB has to be in archive log mode or else hotbackup does
not work.


The reasons for this are wrapped around Oracle's "write as little as needed and
do so as seldomly as possible" idea.  With this idea data block changes are not
sent to the datafiles until there is a need to.  MicroSlop and Exchange work on
the exact opposite idea which makes them IO hogs, although Oracle can be the
same.  In your case I would suspect that the hotbackup is the problem.


Dick Goulet


Reply Separator
Author: Denham Eva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/15/2002 7:08 AM


Thanks for the input so far. Double-Take works real time so the database is
never down.
I also followed their setup direction to the letter. Problem on our site is
that this product is being used for SQL Server and Exchange (Appears to work
fine there, but Oracle is a beast of another color compared to these "Access
on Steroids" databases), management are insisting for the sake of conformity
that this must work. At ever attempted startup another file gives an error,
most frustrating of all is that there is almost no consistency to the
errors.


Denham Eva 


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 4:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Lewis,


    I can understand where Eva is coming from.  I had a demo of a similar
product some time ago.  Their BIG selling point is that you have a
production
server and a backup that is close in time with your production server at
half
(or less) the cost of a hot standby.  Their reasoning is that you don't have
Oracle running on the standby and consequently don't have to pay Oracle a
license fee for the second server since only one server is running at any
point
in time.  Logically their point is well taken.  Regrettably and
understandably
that is NOT Oracle's point of view.


Dick Goulet


Reply Separator


Author: Bishop Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/15/2002 2:23 AM


I'm always dubious of these types of products (especially when there are no
reference sites available) and would opt for a batched up standby database
solution (syncing every 5/10/15 minutes or so) myself. I'm not saying
Double-Take is not good - I've got no experience of it and am sorry it's not
any help but you have an option should Double-Take not work correctly.


Lewis Bishop
---
Barclays Enable - ISS - E-NTRUST/Bexleyheath NT
Oracle Database Consultant
Watling Street, Bexleyheath, Kent, DA6 7RR (Mail Van R)
Phone : 020 8298 3418
Mobile: 07950 380857
Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Enabling Competitive Advantage for Barclays in IT and Business Processing"
 
-Original Message--

RE: RE: RE: Double Take and Oracle

[Denham Eva]

Title: RE: RE: RE: Double Take and Oracle





Dick,


Thank you, atleast you have given me something to work with. I had already began making plans of approaching management for some serious downtime. I have been holding back as I am awaiting response from Double-Take's Source - Sunbelt Software on this issue, I have logged a call with them about 8hrs ago already!

But you have given me alot to chew on until I do that - Many Thanks!!!


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 6:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re:RE: RE: Double Take and Oracle



Eva,


    First things first, Oracle gets to be a bear when your trying to move a
database as you are while it's running.  The first point to settle is that
Double Take is not doing something that is incompatible with Oracle, like making
an ASCII vs. BINARY copy of the datafiles.  To determine that you need to do a
move with the source/production database shutdown.  Yeah, I know that can be
hard to schedule but it's necessary.  If the copy won't start at that point then
Double Take is completely incompatible with Oracle and you can't go much
further.  Now if that passes, allow Double Take to copy the production DB to the
backup server and while it's doing so check the hotbackup status of the database
using the following:


    SELECT COUNT(*)
    FROM DBA_DATA_FILES DF, SYS.V_$BACKUP B
    WHERE FILE_ID = FILE#
    AND DF.STATUS = 'AVAILABLE'
    AND B.STATUS = 'ACTIVE';


The number you get back should equal the number of datafiles in your database. 
If it comes back as 0 then the database has not switched and the backup is
worthless.  You may have to do this manually before running Double Take.  Also
your production/source DB has to be in archive log mode or else hotbackup does
not work.


The reasons for this are wrapped around Oracle's "write as little as needed and
do so as seldomly as possible" idea.  With this idea data block changes are not
sent to the datafiles until there is a need to.  MicroSlop and Exchange work on
the exact opposite idea which makes them IO hogs, although Oracle can be the
same.  In your case I would suspect that the hotbackup is the problem.


Dick Goulet


Reply Separator
Author: Denham Eva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/15/2002 7:08 AM


Thanks for the input so far. Double-Take works real time so the database is
never down.
I also followed their setup direction to the letter. Problem on our site is
that this product is being used for SQL Server and Exchange (Appears to work
fine there, but Oracle is a beast of another color compared to these "Access
on Steroids" databases), management are insisting for the sake of conformity
that this must work. At ever attempted startup another file gives an error,
most frustrating of all is that there is almost no consistency to the
errors.


Denham Eva 


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 4:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Lewis,


    I can understand where Eva is coming from.  I had a demo of a similar
product some time ago.  Their BIG selling point is that you have a
production
server and a backup that is close in time with your production server at
half
(or less) the cost of a hot standby.  Their reasoning is that you don't have
Oracle running on the standby and consequently don't have to pay Oracle a
license fee for the second server since only one server is running at any
point
in time.  Logically their point is well taken.  Regrettably and
understandably
that is NOT Oracle's point of view.


Dick Goulet


Reply Separator


Author: Bishop Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/15/2002 2:23 AM


I'm always dubious of these types of products (especially when there are no
reference sites available) and would opt for a batched up standby database
solution (syncing every 5/10/15 minutes or so) myself. I'm not saying
Double-Take is not good - I've got no experience of it and am sorry it's not
any help but you have an option should Double-Take not work correctly.


Lewis Bishop
---
Barclays Enable - ISS - E-NTRUST/Bexleyheath NT
Oracle Database Consultant
Watling Street, Bexleyheath, Kent, DA6 7RR (Mail Van R)
Phone : 020 8298 3418
Mobile: 07950 380857
Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Enabling Competitive Advantage for Barclays in IT and Business Processing"
 
-Original Message-
Sent: 15 October 2002 08:28
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


This header confirms that this email message has been swept for the
presence of computer viruses. 


Corporate IT
THE WOOLWICH
--
Hello Esteemed Gurus 
Pls advise... 
We are trying to ge

RE: RE: Re[2]: No Nulls? (was: Warehouse design: snowflake vs

[Toepke, Kevin M]

I was once a consultant on a large Payroll project and ran into a case where
someone had entered a date of death 1 year in advance (something like
8/17/1999 instead of 8/17/1998). I found it in the middle of November.
Because of this, the person was still getting paid. I sent email to payroll,
HR and my manager questioning this "planned death"! Shortly thereafter I
left the project for about 3 months and when I came back the data hadn't
been changed!

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:04 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


See logical, isn't it!!  *-)

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Robson; Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/15/2002 2:43 AM

Ho Ho Ho - never heard of companies with dead persons on the payroll?

peter


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: 14 October 2002 21:49
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re[2]: No Nulls? (was: Warehouse design: snowflake vs star s
> 
> 
> I'll agree with Igor.  Actually my 'preferred' option would 
> be to use their
> birth date + 80 years which is the generally accepted life 
> expectancy of a human
> being.  Lets face it, you aren't going to employ the guy/girl 
> after their dead! 
> And if their not dead by then, then sure as heck they'll be retired.
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply Separator
> Author: "Igor Neyman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   10/14/2002 12:14 PM
> 
> RE: No Nulls? (was: Warehouse design: snowflake vs star 
> schemEND_EMPLOYEMENT
> date for still employed employees equals to "01/01/4000" (or any other
> pre-defined date in distant future).
> 
> Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   
> 
> 
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: Adams, Matthew (GECP, MABG, 088130) 
>   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
>   Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 3:39 PM
>   Subject: RE: No Nulls? (was: Warehouse design: snowflake vs 
> star schem
> 
> 
>   "No application that I can reasonably think of should 
>   use NULLS, except those pre-81 
>   where there are obsolete columns." 
> 
>   Everytime somebody says this to me, I ask them: 
> 
>   How do you handle still employed employees in an EMPLOYEE table 
>   that contains a END_EMPLOYEMENT date column? 
> 
>   What's your take? 
>    
>   Matt Adams - GE Appliances - [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>   Write a poem about a haircut! But lofty, noble, tragic, 
> full of love, 
>   treachery, retribution, quiet heroism in the face of certain doom! 
>   Six lines, cleverly rhymed, and every word beginning with 
> the letter s! 
> 
>   -Original Message- 
>   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
>   Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 2:29 PM 
>   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
>   Subject: Re:No Nulls? (was: Warehouse design: snowflake vs 
> star schem 
> 
> 
> 
>   Jesse, 
> 
>   I'll refrain from personal comments, but on CJ's quote, 
> he's correct. 
> Nulls 
>   are an oddity.  They cannot be true or false ( 
> = NULL or 
>!= NULL), nor can they equal anything.  They 
> are in effect a
> third 
>   logical state of nothingness.  You also have to code most 
> applications with 
>   indicator variables to check for their existence.  All in 
> all a real pain in
> the 
>   backside.  BUT, if you give me the possibility that nulls 
> exist in the data I 
>   much prefer using them vs. many a third party solution of a 
> single space.  No 
>   application that I can reasonably think of should use 
> NULLS, except those
> pre-81 
>   where there are obsolete columns. 
> 
>   Dick Goulet 
> 
>   Reply Separator 
>   Author: "Jesse; Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>   Date:   10/14/2002 9:33 AM 
> 
>   On the link below is this quote from C.J.Date: 
> 
>   "I don't want you to think that my SQL solution to your 
> problem means I 
>   advocate the use of nulls.  Nulls are a disaster." 
> 
>   Of course, he doesn't expound upon it (probably not a need 
> except for 
>   dummies like me).  Anyone care to comment?  (On the quote, 
> not on my 
>   dumminess...) 
> 
> 
> 
>   Rich 
> 
> 
> 
>   Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator 
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech 
> International, Sussex, WI USA 
> 
>   > -Original Message- 
>   > From: Robson, Peter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
>   > Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 4:59 AM 
>   > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
>   > Subject: RE: Warehouse design: snowflake vs star schemas 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > Just for the record (and perhaps to confirm that there are 
>   > always two sides 
>   > to a story). Readers may like to see the article Chris Date 
>   > wrote to Ralph 
>   > Kemball on the subject of business rules and integrity 
> constraints: 
>   > 
>   > http://www.dbdebunk.com/kimball1.htm 
>   -- 
>   Please see the official ORACLE-

RE: RE: Re[2]: sequence numbers

[Deshpande, Kirti]

I wanted to take a picture with him. 
.. and take him out to lunch to learn from his experience ... ;-) 
but it turned out he lasted only for less than a week... ;) 
(Some developers he was working with knew a bit more Oracle than him)

- Kirti  



-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 11:49 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Let's see, 1 table with 700+ columns that can grow to ~1GB that you want to
iot
and have in the keep pool.  What are you smoking!  That's one consultant
that
I'd HAVE to laugh in his/her face.  And he/she would NOT get away with it.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/11/2002 7:19 AM

it's all in the buzzwords, obviously :)


--- "Deshpande, Kirti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We were asked, not too long ago, to create one Oracle8i database with
> only
> *one* table with some 700+ columns. While at it, the consultant
> (hired by
> end user dept) also suggested that we make it an IOT using an LMT,
> and since
> the table will never grow over 1GB, asked if there was a way to put
> it in
> KEEP buffer pool. He was helping re-write/enhance some MS Access
> Apps.
> 
> Talk about knowing all the right lingo... ;) 
> 
> - Kirti
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 8:59 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> April,
> 
> What can I say?  Ouch!  I feel your pain.  I've been trapped in some
> pretty ridiculous situations too.  (Though, I think you have me beat!
>  A
> 37 column primary key?? Really??)  Well, you at least seem to have
> the
> proper attitude. ;-)  Without a sense of humor, I'm afraid you'd go
> insane in short order!  ;-)
> 
> The only other thing I can think of when people shut you down like
> that
> is: document.  "At meeting X, on such and such a date, I identified
> this
> problem, and Mr. Z told me to not to worry about it."  It may not
> help,
> but from a sanity point of view, there is a certain amount of
> satisfaction in "I told you so!", even if you never verbalize
> it;-)
> 
> Hang in there,
> 
> -Mark
> 
> On Fri, 2002-10-11 at 08:43, April Wells wrote:
> > Mark...
> > 
> > If this were the MOST serious design flaw in the whole mess, I
> wouldn't
> care
> > so much.  There is a point where you just shut up (gee, I have been
> TOLD
> to
> > do that in meetings) and wait till it breaks (or worse, one of our
> clients
> > buys it and we have to TRY to implement).  I am the funny one...
> the one
> to
> > laugh at and make fun of because I keep trying to tell them that
> you can't
> > do things.  You can't have a totally denormalized Oracle table if
> there
> 1500
> > columns in it... yes queries will fly on a table that can't be
> built.  You
> > can't have 37 columns in a primary key.  Date really isn't an
> acceptable
> > name for a column.
> > 
> > April Wells
> > Oracle DBA 
> > Keep yourself well oiled with life, laughter, new ideas and action.
> > Otherwise you will rust out.  _Anonymous
> > 
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 7:34 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Dick,
> > 
> > I have to disagree with you here.  Particularly in the case where
> this
> > sequence will see any sort of concurrency, from multiple concurrent
> > sessions accessing it.  This is due to the serialization on the SQ
> > enqueue.  This will cause far worse scalability issues than any
> I/O. 
> > Not that I/O is insignificant, but in this situation, serialization
> on
> > the enqueue will be the real showstopper for scalability.
> > 
> > As to losing the cached values, well, so what?  If your design is
> such
> > that it's important to have an unbroken contiguous sequence of
> numbers
> > with no gaps, then I would argue that is a serious design flaw. 
> Also,
> > if that's your requirement, then a sequence is not appropriate,
> since it
> > can and will end up causing gaps, the first time you roll back a
> > transaction.
> > 
> > Finally, as to sequences losing cached values, unless your instance
> > crashes or does a shutdown abort, Oracle should not loose any
> sequence
> > values.
> > 
> > -Mark
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Thu, 2002-10-10 at 18:18, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > Actually there is no IO penalty since Oracle has to treat the
> sequence
> > just like
> > > any table with the old LRU algorithm.  I have several sequences
> with a
> > cache of
> > > 0 and they perform as well as those with a cache value.  The big
> > difference is
> > > when you shut down the database and all of those cached values
> end up in
> > the
> > > trash.
> > > 
> > > Dick Goulet
> > > 
> > > Reply Separator
> > > Author: "Yechiel Adar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Date:   10/10/2002 1:38 PM
> > > 
> > > I think that you will have an update to the sequence number EVERY
> time
> > instead
> > > of every 20 times. That's mean

RE: RE: RE: Backups

[Jared . Still]

Not using any version of it now.

Veritas Net Backup and RMAN.

When BMC purchased DataTools, the support for SQL*Backtrack
really went down the tubes.  I don't know if it's improved or not, but
I don't really miss it now.

Jared





"Smith, Ron L." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 10/03/2002 02:38 PM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
        cc: 
Subject:RE: RE: RE: Backups


You must be using an old version.  Been there done that.  Works!

Ron

PS: Also works on NT!

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:11 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Unless:

You do a point in time recovery, find out you were
given the wrong time, and try  to do it again.

Not so simple, can't be done from the SQL*Bactrack menu.

Jared






"Smith, Ron L." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 10/03/2002 01:26 PM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
Subject:RE: RE: RE: Backups


SQL Backtrack and Netbackup! No manual tracking.  Restores couldn't be
simpler.

R. Smith

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Richard,

Distateful is being nice.  Try down right horrifying is a more
appriopriate
description.  Been There, Done that, now have three Unix SA's who handle 
it.

Life is so grand!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Markham; Richard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/3/2002 10:53 AM

Yes I personally run Veritas Netbackup for both cold and RMAN.  A fiber
SAN has its added benefits as well =).  I have never really explored the
implications of these other utilities.  My head filled with many
distasteful visuals. Yes, I agree with you and I realize that I am
spoiled .

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 1:38 PM
To: Markham; Richard; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I've used cpio, dd, and fbackup to do hot and cold backups before, but 
never
again.  With those utilities the burden of keeping track of what is on 
which
tape rests with you and normally a stubby pencil & pad of paper because 
you
know
what won't be available when you need to do a recovery.  They do work be
assured, but the administrative overhead is just not worth it anymore, 
even
for
a small shop.  Get a copy of Veritas or OmniBack or some other software
package
that does library management for you and preferably integrates with RMAN.
Life
can be so much easier!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Markham; Richard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/3/2002 10:03 AM

It would be interesting to see how you would explain how either
cp or dd (which know nothing of archive log mode, or the concept
of hot backup, itself, none the less) is going to keep things
consistent, when these utilities themselves are for point in 
time operations.



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


This doesn't sound right.  Put the database in hot backup mode,
backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
come out of hot backup mode.  Why wouldn't you be able to recover? 

John P Weatherman
Database Administrator
Replacements Ltd.



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
database must be closed when you do the backup.  If it is not, you won't 
be
able to recover.

Just a thot,
Ruth

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


Robyn,
 We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
fine except that it  used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a
small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function
is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
the dd tape.
Other users will know about the transportability issues.
Ron
 ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
Hello,

I need some info about backups.  I am working on a customer site, and
have implemented both exports and hot backups.  Both jobs copy to a
separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
moves the files to tape.

Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
p

RE: RE: RE: Backups

[Smith, Ron L.]

You must be using an old version.  Been there done that.  Works!

Ron

PS: Also works on NT!

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:11 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Unless:

You do a point in time recovery, find out you were
given the wrong time, and try  to do it again.

Not so simple, can't be done from the SQL*Bactrack menu.

Jared






"Smith, Ron L." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 10/03/2002 01:26 PM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
        Subject:RE: RE: RE: Backups


SQL Backtrack and Netbackup! No manual tracking.  Restores couldn't be
simpler.

R. Smith

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Richard,

Distateful is being nice.  Try down right horrifying is a more
appriopriate
description.  Been There, Done that, now have three Unix SA's who handle 
it.

Life is so grand!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Markham; Richard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/3/2002 10:53 AM

Yes I personally run Veritas Netbackup for both cold and RMAN.  A fiber
SAN has its added benefits as well =).  I have never really explored the
implications of these other utilities.  My head filled with many
distasteful visuals. Yes, I agree with you and I realize that I am
spoiled .

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 1:38 PM
To: Markham; Richard; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I've used cpio, dd, and fbackup to do hot and cold backups before, but 
never
again.  With those utilities the burden of keeping track of what is on 
which
tape rests with you and normally a stubby pencil & pad of paper because 
you
know
what won't be available when you need to do a recovery.  They do work be
assured, but the administrative overhead is just not worth it anymore, 
even
for
a small shop.  Get a copy of Veritas or OmniBack or some other software
package
that does library management for you and preferably integrates with RMAN.
Life
can be so much easier!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Markham; Richard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/3/2002 10:03 AM

It would be interesting to see how you would explain how either
cp or dd (which know nothing of archive log mode, or the concept
of hot backup, itself, none the less) is going to keep things
consistent, when these utilities themselves are for point in 
time operations.



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


This doesn't sound right.  Put the database in hot backup mode,
backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
come out of hot backup mode.  Why wouldn't you be able to recover? 

John P Weatherman
Database Administrator
Replacements Ltd.



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
database must be closed when you do the backup.  If it is not, you won't 
be
able to recover.

Just a thot,
Ruth

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


Robyn,
 We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
fine except that it  used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a
small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function
is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
the dd tape.
Other users will know about the transportability issues.
Ron
 ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
Hello,

I need some info about backups.  I am working on a customer site, and
have implemented both exports and hot backups.  Both jobs copy to a
separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
moves the files to tape.

Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals.  The file
system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array.  We've provided him with a
ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
recovered from this tape?  Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

Robyn

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 htt

RE: RE: RE: Backups

[Jared . Still]

Unless:

You do a point in time recovery, find out you were
given the wrong time, and try  to do it again.

Not so simple, can't be done from the SQL*Bactrack menu.

Jared






"Smith, Ron L." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 10/03/2002 01:26 PM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
        Subject:RE: RE: RE: Backups


SQL Backtrack and Netbackup! No manual tracking.  Restores couldn't be
simpler.

R. Smith

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Richard,

Distateful is being nice.  Try down right horrifying is a more
appriopriate
description.  Been There, Done that, now have three Unix SA's who handle 
it.

Life is so grand!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Markham; Richard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/3/2002 10:53 AM

Yes I personally run Veritas Netbackup for both cold and RMAN.  A fiber
SAN has its added benefits as well =).  I have never really explored the
implications of these other utilities.  My head filled with many
distasteful visuals. Yes, I agree with you and I realize that I am
spoiled .

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 1:38 PM
To: Markham; Richard; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I've used cpio, dd, and fbackup to do hot and cold backups before, but 
never
again.  With those utilities the burden of keeping track of what is on 
which
tape rests with you and normally a stubby pencil & pad of paper because 
you
know
what won't be available when you need to do a recovery.  They do work be
assured, but the administrative overhead is just not worth it anymore, 
even
for
a small shop.  Get a copy of Veritas or OmniBack or some other software
package
that does library management for you and preferably integrates with RMAN.
Life
can be so much easier!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Markham; Richard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/3/2002 10:03 AM

It would be interesting to see how you would explain how either
cp or dd (which know nothing of archive log mode, or the concept
of hot backup, itself, none the less) is going to keep things
consistent, when these utilities themselves are for point in 
time operations.



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


This doesn't sound right.  Put the database in hot backup mode,
backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
come out of hot backup mode.  Why wouldn't you be able to recover? 

John P Weatherman
Database Administrator
Replacements Ltd.



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
database must be closed when you do the backup.  If it is not, you won't 
be
able to recover.

Just a thot,
Ruth

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


Robyn,
 We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
fine except that it  used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a
small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function
is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
the dd tape.
Other users will know about the transportability issues.
Ron
 ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
Hello,

I need some info about backups.  I am working on a customer site, and
have implemented both exports and hot backups.  Both jobs copy to a
separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
moves the files to tape.

Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals.  The file
system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array.  We've provided him with a
ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
recovered from this tape?  Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

Robyn

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
-
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, s

RE: RE: RE: Backups

[Smith, Ron L.]

SQL Backtrack and Netbackup! No manual tracking.  Restores couldn't be
simpler.

R. Smith

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Richard,

Distateful is being nice.  Try down right horrifying is a more
appriopriate
description.  Been There, Done that, now have three Unix SA's who handle it.

Life is so grand!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Markham; Richard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/3/2002 10:53 AM

Yes I personally run Veritas Netbackup for both cold and RMAN.  A fiber
SAN has its added benefits as well =).  I have never really explored the
implications of these other utilities.  My head filled with many
distasteful visuals. Yes, I agree with you and I realize that I am
spoiled .

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 1:38 PM
To: Markham; Richard; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I've used cpio, dd, and fbackup to do hot and cold backups before, but never
again.  With those utilities the burden of keeping track of what is on which
tape rests with you and normally a stubby pencil & pad of paper because you
know
what won't be available when you need to do a recovery.  They do work be
assured, but the administrative overhead is just not worth it anymore, even
for
a small shop.  Get a copy of Veritas or OmniBack or some other software
package
that does library management for you and preferably integrates with RMAN.
Life
can be so much easier!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Markham; Richard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   10/3/2002 10:03 AM

It would be interesting to see how you would explain how either
cp or dd (which know nothing of archive log mode, or the concept
of hot backup, itself, none the less) is going to keep things
consistent, when these utilities themselves are for point in 
time operations.



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:18 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


This doesn't sound right.  Put the database in hot backup mode,
backup (whether using cp to a staging point like the poster here
is doing or straight to tape using dd or dump or some other utility),
come out of hot backup mode.  Why wouldn't you be able to recover? 

John P Weatherman
Database Administrator
Replacements Ltd.



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:18 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


If you want to be able to use any OS backup for restore/recovery that
database must be closed when you do the backup.  If it is not, you won't be
able to recover.

Just a thot,
Ruth

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:08 AM


Robyn,
 We used the DD method on pre 7.1 oracle with RAW devices. It worked
fine except that it  used a lot of tape dumping a raw device when only a
small portion was used. Using a dd command to place a copy of the data
on tape should not be a problem if a restoral is needed. The dd function
is just another OS method of copying data to a tape. I don't know for
sure but I think there might be some issues about transportability of
the dd tape.
Other users will know about the transportability issues.
Ron
 ROR mª¿ªm

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/02/02 08:08PM >>>
Hello,

I need some info about backups.  I am working on a customer site, and
have implemented both exports and hot backups.  Both jobs copy to a
separate mount point, and a job scripted by another individual then
moves the files to tape.

Here's the problem - he's using a dd command, primarily because it
provides a succinct output he can email to non-technicals.  The file
system is built on a 12 disk A1000 array.  We've provided him with a
ufsdump script, but he's doesn't want to use it. Can the system be
recovered from this tape?  Has anyone ever relied on a dd for a daily
backup method? The system is Oracle 9i on Solaris 8.

Robyn

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Robyn Anderson Sands
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
-
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Ron Rogers
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
-

Re: RE: RE: Rant

[ltiu]

Yes, of course. Because they are not Oracle.

On Monday 22 July 2002 19:08, you wrote:
> Self-healing... did it have gaping wounds before?
>
> Regards,
> Patrice Boivin
> Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 8:02 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  RE: RE: RE: Rant
>
> Yes. I do. Because they're IBM.
>
> Quoting "Gogala, Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > Do you believe them?
> >
> > Mladen Gogala
> > Oracle DBA
> > Phone: (203) 459-6855
> > Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: ltiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:02 PM
> > > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > > Subject: Re:RE: RE: Rant
> > >
> > >
> > > IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing.
> > >
> > > ltiu
> > >
> > > Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> > > > Right and the database will tell the end user where to park
> > >
> > > his/her stupid
> > >
> > > > cartesian product sql statement!!
> > > >
> > > > Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure.
> > > >
> > > > Dick Goulet
> > > >
> > > > Reply Separator
> > > > Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Date:   7/22/2002 12:14 PM
> > > >
> > > > What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need
> > > > a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i.
> > > > You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will
> > > > tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the
> > > > best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread
> > > > iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum
> > > > amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office
> > > > products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of
> > > > "I have a dream" speach.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > > --
> > > Author: ltiu
> > >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
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RE: RE: RE: Rant

[Boivin, Patrice J]

Self-healing... did it have gaping wounds before?

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

-Original Message-
Sent:   Monday, July 22, 2002 8:02 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:RE: RE: RE: Rant

Yes. I do. Because they're IBM.

Quoting "Gogala, Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Do you believe them? 
> 
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA
> Phone: (203) 459-6855
> Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: ltiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:02 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re:RE: RE: Rant
> > 
> > 
> > IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing.
> > 
> > ltiu
> > 
> > Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> > 
> > > Right and the database will tell the end user where to park 
> > his/her stupid
> > > cartesian product sql statement!!
> > > 
> > > Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure.
> > > 
> > > Dick Goulet
> > > 
> > > Reply Separator
> > > Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Date:   7/22/2002 12:14 PM
> > > 
> > > What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need 
> > > a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i.
> > > You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will
> > > tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the 
> > > best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread 
> > > iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum 
> > > amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office 
> > > products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of
> > > "I have a dream" speach.
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > -- 
> > Author: ltiu
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> > 
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> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
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> 




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RE: RE: RE: Rant

[ltiu]

Yes. I do. Because they're IBM.

Quoting "Gogala, Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Do you believe them? 
> 
> Mladen Gogala
> Oracle DBA
> Phone: (203) 459-6855
> Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: ltiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:02 PM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: Re:RE: RE: Rant
> > 
> > 
> > IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing.
> > 
> > ltiu
> > 
> > Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> > 
> > > Right and the database will tell the end user where to park 
> > his/her stupid
> > > cartesian product sql statement!!
> > > 
> > > Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure.
> > > 
> > > Dick Goulet
> > > 
> > > Reply Separator
> > > Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Date:   7/22/2002 12:14 PM
> > > 
> > > What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need 
> > > a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i.
> > > You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will
> > > tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the 
> > > best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread 
> > > iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum 
> > > amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office 
> > > products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of
> > > "I have a dream" speach.
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> > -- 
> > Author: ltiu
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> > San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> > 
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> > 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Gogala, Mladen
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> 




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RE: RE: RE: Rant

[Orr, Steve]

Sounds like a movie I watched this weekend... "Species." It's all science
fiction to me.


-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 4:02 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing.

ltiu

Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> Right and the database will tell the end user where to park his/her stupid
> cartesian product sql statement!!
> 
> Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure.
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply Separator
> Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   7/22/2002 12:14 PM
> 
> What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need 
> a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i.
> You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will
> tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the 
> best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread 
> iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum 
> amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office 
> products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of
> "I have a dream" speach.
> 
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
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RE: RE: RE: Rant

[Sunil_Nookala]

what about self destruction??

Sunil
> -Original Message-
> From: ltiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:02 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re:RE: RE: Rant
> 
> 
> IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing.
> 
> ltiu
> 
> Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> 
> > Right and the database will tell the end user where to park 
> his/her stupid
> > cartesian product sql statement!!
> > 
> > Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure.
> > 
> > Dick Goulet
> > 
> > Reply Separator
> > Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date:   7/22/2002 12:14 PM
> > 
> > What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need 
> > a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i.
> > You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will
> > tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the 
> > best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread 
> > iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum 
> > amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office 
> > products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of
> > "I have a dream" speach.
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: ltiu
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
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RE: RE: RE: Rant

[Gogala, Mladen]

Do you believe them? 

Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
Phone: (203) 459-6855
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]



> -Original Message-
> From: ltiu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:02 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: Re:RE: RE: Rant
> 
> 
> IBM's latest DB2 claims to do this. Self monitoring, self healing.
> 
> ltiu
> 
> Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> 
> > Right and the database will tell the end user where to park 
> his/her stupid
> > cartesian product sql statement!!
> > 
> > Sometime after I'm dead and buried I'm sure.
> > 
> > Dick Goulet
> > 
> > Reply Separator
> > Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date:   7/22/2002 12:14 PM
> > 
> > What happened to the dream about the database that doesn't need 
> > a DBA? Something like that was announced for the version 27i.
> > You know, everything will tune itself, database engine will
> > tap directly into the user's mind and, based on that, define the 
> > best possible access path. Of course, the instance would spread 
> > iself ideally accross the available disks, allocate the optimum 
> > amount of memory, tune its parameters and deinstall any MS Office 
> > products from the machine. Sort of Larry Ellison's version of
> > "I have a dream" speach.
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: ltiu
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
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Re: Re: Re: Buffer busy waits are 10.96% of non-idle waits

[chaos]

oraora  oraora£¬
hi, i think use bind variable will give better performance, but it has nothing to 
do with the buffer busy wait.Using bind variable will solve the repeated parse and 
thus reduce library latch free wait.
And seperate table and index won't help either. There is a greate thread in 
dbforums.com talking about seperate table and index .
As for the buffer busy wait, i do not have any good idear either.


Good luck!

chaos
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

zhu chao
DBA of Eachnet.com
86-021-32174588-667


ÔÚ 2002-07-11 20:23:00 You wrote:
>Hi Kavitha,
>
>querying v$waitstat gives me the o/p below.
>
>CLASS   COUNT   TIME
>-- -- --
>data block  131525173  225446798
>sort block  0  0
>save undo block 0  0
>segment header   4968  16264
>save undo header0  0
>free list   0  0
>extent map  0  0
>bitmap block0  0
>bitmap index block  0  0
>unused  0  0
>system undo header  0  0
>system undo block   0  0
>undo header  1582 14
>undo block  45965   3008
>
>the data block above belongs to a datafile USERS01.DAT which has
>all the tables and indexes the application uses.
>
>the top 25 SQL statements are always SELECT statements.
>they get executed repeatedly.
>is it b'coz all SQLs are with literals and no bind variables ?
>
>it's a highly read OLTP system.
>
>will not
>-- using bind variables instead of literals
>-- seperating tables and indexes to diferent tabelspace
>
>solve my problem  ?
>
>Regards,
>prem.
>
>
>
>On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 Kavitha Muthukumaren wrote :
>>
>>Hi ,
>>
>>TOAD gives this alarm often. what does it mean ? which view
>>will
>>give me the wait statistics ?
>>
>>Answer :
>>==
>>Please run STATSPACK to if this is one of the top waitevents to
>>check if the percentage of wait - can be treated as problematic
>>one
>>
>>  SELECT p1 "File", p2 "Block", p3 "Reason"
>> FROM v$session_wait
>>WHERE event='buffer busy waits'
>>Repeatedly run the above statement and collect the output. After
>>a period
>>of time sort the results to see which file & blocks are showing
>>contention:
>>
>>
>>" it occurs when a session cannot access a block because it is
>>in
>>use by another session. The two most common causes are
>>insufficient free lists for a table or insufficient rollback
>>segments. "  --- IS THIS THE REASON ?
>>
>>Answer:
>>==
>>   Yes on top of  the wait event could also occur
>>  could also occur  if
>>
>>a. if the application is going against a set of same blocks (hot
>>blocks)
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Kavi
>
>_
>There is always a better job for you at Monsterindia.com.
>Go now http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs
>
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author: oraora  oraora
>  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: RE: RE: Online vs offline backups

[Shine_DBA]

Hi, guys,
We have discussed this topic many times on this list. Actually a good DBA
should design a good backup and restore strategy instead of "online or
offline" according to business situation.

>From my opinion, both "online" and "offline" are necessary, for example, I
do monthly offline line cold backup and daily online hot backup on my
production db. The only thing you need to know is that if you do offline
backup, you should backup every thing, include online redo logs, otherwise,
you may lost some data; if you do online hot backup, the online redo logs
are useless when you do restore.

Cheers!

Shine Sha
Snr. Oracle DBA
iGINE Pte. Ltd.

-Original Message-
Thomas F
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 12:44 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

chaos,

if you believe everything you read in the oracle docs, then your are NOT a
thinking DBA.  just because they failed to mention that you should backup
the log files does NOT mean you should not back them up.

as everyone who knows anything has stated in this thread, this is a very bad
idea.  never mind the "what if" scenario you mentioned.  anyone who is
performing a database restore had better know exactly what and where they
are restoring to (what point in time), and the condition of all of the
database files on the disk before they begin.  if they don't, they are in
for trouble.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 11:43 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


hi, Mercadante, Thomas F£¬ÄúºÃ£¡
But according to Oracle Document(which i believe), oracle backup and
recovery guide (version 8.1.6)page 4-4: it said:

   Use operating system commands or a backup utility to make backups of all
datafiles and all control files specified by the CONTROL_FILES parameter of
the initialization parameter file. Also back up the initialization parameter
file
and other Oracle product initialization files. To find them, do a search for
*.ora starting in your Oracle home directory and recursively search all of
its
subdirectories.
You can see, oracle mentions everything it need, but it does not
mention the online redo log.
And:
Is the online redo log useful in recovery since you do a full  clean
cold backup? Just do a clear logfile group 1,2,3 and you cleanly opened your
database when you Just restore the datafile,controlfiles.If you want to make
full recovery, the online redo log is also totally USELESS. And if you
carelessly overlay the old online redo log, the CURRENT ACTIVE ONLINE REDO
LOG WILL BE DESTROYED! so , you cannot do complete recovery.
This is my opinions.Though i also do not do coldbackup.

Good luck!

chaos
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

zhu chao
DBA of Eachnet.com
86-021-32174588-667


ÔÚ 2002-06-19 06:43:00 You wrote:
>chal_ping
>
>What?  Makes no sense.  Why NOT backup everything if you are taking a Cold
>Backup.  Why make yourself perform an open reset logs upon a recovery?
>
>This is bad advice.
>
>Personally, I use Rman performing hot backups all the time.  My database is
>*always* open to the world.
>
>Tom Mercadante
>Oracle Certified Professional
>
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 8:38 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>Ferenc Mantfeld£¬
>
>>The same person that advocated a cold backup
>>did not back up the online redo logs, so what use was it anyway, since the
>>only way they would force open their DB is with a resetlogs option anyway.
>   For cold backup, oracle does not recommend backup the online redo
>log. And if you restore the whole cold backup, why need the online redo
log?
>I am sure people doing cold backup will do shutdown normal/immediate, not
>shutdown abort.So there is no need to backup the online redo log at all!
>Backup the online redo log also take the risk of damage the current online
>redo log when you want to do full recovery.
>   So, never backup the online redo log when doing cold backup.
>
>ÖÂ
>Àñ£¡
>
>chal_ping
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
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>Author: chal_ping
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RE: RE: Re: Is sqlplus too slow to unload data?]

[Stephane Faroult]

>Stephane,
>
>pdqout does give me a real good impression, not
>only the speed but also the
>interface. I can see it uses parallel query.
>However, I, as a production
>DBA, intend to change the application which come
>from a third party as a
>package as small as possible. It takes 4hours to
>extract data at 5M/minute.
>If the speed of sqlplus can be increased to
>20M/minute, I achieve the goal.
>
>Just one thing about pdqout confuses me. I have to
>use DBA account,
>otherwise I get the following error.
>'> Oracle oexfet() failure (-907)
>> ORA-00907: missing right parenthesis '
>
>Kind Regards,
>Bin

AFAIK it's a bug who has stayed in some versions, due to an innate tendency to make a 
distinction between the DBA elite and the scum of the earth ;-).

Regards,

Stephane Faroult
Oriole
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RE: RE: RE: World's largest database...

[Jim Hawkins]

Ian,

Thanks for the info.  Very interesting.

Jim

"MacGregor, Ian A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>The  0.5 petabyte database at SLAC does not use Oracle;  it uses Objectivity.   
>Objectivity is a small company which makes an OODB.  When the project started there 
>was no way that Oracle could possibly handle this.  It is still doubtful: Oracle does 
>not truly support Hierarchical Storage Systems;  using one huge RAC ties limits your 
>machine vendors; some limits such as 64,000 partitions probably need to be increased.
>
>CERN is however very interested in using Oracle for their Large Hadronic Collider, 
>but that's about seven years off.  That database will surpass BABAR's which as of 
>00:01:13 this morning (April 18 2002) was storing 549.6 TB has been stored in 324603 
>files.  CERN's possible use of Oracle is not due to failures in Objectivity, but due 
> to that company's inability to capture market share.  They are hoping the problems 
>which prevent Oracle from handling large databases can be fixed by then.    I am also 
>hoping for this, but I fear Oracle may prove to be an uncooperative prohibitedly 
>expensive partner.
>
>
>Here we have plans to turn up the luminosity.  If approved the database will reach 
>one exabyte by the end of the experiment.
>
>I don't believe the genealogy databases are even close to 500 TB.
>
>
>Ian MacGregor
>Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 8:29 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>I can believe that - I think they are the group that offers all the geneaology 
>services to track family histories.  I'll bet that's one heck of database too!
>
>Jim
>
>"Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>At the Oracle Technology Day here they mentioned that one of the largest
>>databases belongs to the Church Of Latter Day Saints, if you can believe it.
>>
>>They mentioned it in a seminar which also talked about iFS, I don't know
>>they were implying that it relies on iFS.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Patrice Boivin
>>Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>>Sent:   Thursday, April 18, 2002 11:03 AM
>>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>>Subject:    World's largest database...
>>
>>http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_STO70250,00.html
>>
>>I thought we had someone on this list from this group, and was just
>>wondering if this particular database was in Oracle or not.
>>
>>Jim
>>
>>--
>>_
>>Jim Hawkins
>>Oracle Database Administrator
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>St. Louis, MO  USA
>>--
>>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>>--
>>Author: Boivin, Patrice J
>>  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>>San Diego, California        -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
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>>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>>
>
>
>--
>_
>Jim Hawkins
>Oracle Database Administrator
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>St. Louis, MO  USA
>
>
>
>__
>Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the 
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RE: RE: RE: Stand-by (Oracle9i Data Guard) vs. Replication

[Sakthi , Raj]

Well,
being in health care industry myself I know too well
what do you mean. Apart from 100s of tousands of $
lost every hour we are down, we have to take some
safety also into account.
As to the question of advanced replication, having
implemented multi-master replication myself I know
what a nightmare it could turn out to be . Moreover it
wasn't greate shakes in performance either.
Only advantage you are looking at when considering a
third party software. It is script driven so no info
gets stored in data dictionary. How this could be a
merit ?...well you don't get hung up on distributed
transaction ( 2 phase commit ) problem solving -
performance hit which is inevitable. More over I have
seen the technology of reading redo logs/archive logs
and it seems to be stable and fast. 

Finally I think it is matter of personal preference
also. But I coul dbe wrong.

Cheers,
RS

--- "Freeman, Robert " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>1. Is the critical data would be updated in the
> sites..?
> Yes...
> >> 2. If yes , are you expecting the other sites to
> 'see' this update...?
> Yes...
> >> 3. If one site is down, then are you expecting
> the other sites to share
> the >> load or you have the closest site in take in
> all the load...?
> Yes
> 


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RE: RE: RE: Stand-by (Oracle9i Data Guard) vs. Replication

[Freeman, Robert]

>>1. Is the critical data would be updated in the sites..?
Yes...
>> 2. If yes , are you expecting the other sites to 'see' this update...?
Yes...
>> 3. If one site is down, then are you expecting the other sites to share
the >> load or you have the closest site in take in all the load...?
Yes

but add this requirement as a wrinkle, the sites have to be able to run
independently of each other (e.g. a WAN failure) and then resync with each
other after a period of time. Finally, this is a bit different than Amazon
in that
this system has some human safety considerations associated with it. Amazon
outage might represent lost sales, outage of this system could represent
lost
lives. Needless to say, I'm being very careful about the architecture we
use.

I've implemented replication solutions before as well as stand-by database
solutions. But the replication solutions to this point have been very
simple and not nearly as complex... so I was hoping for someone to say,
we do that and here are the issues we ran into.

As for RAC, we will be running RAC at each site, and replicating between
the RAC cluster. Sites are way to distant for RAC between them through
a SAN or some such thing.

RF

What does shareplex buy me that Oracle's advanced replication does not?

Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP
Oracle DBA Technical Lead
CSX Midtier Database Administration

The Cigarette Smoking Man: Anyone who can appease a man's conscience can
take his freedom away from him.



-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 12:38 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Robert,
If I understand your requirements correctly,
You have multiple sites separated geographically ( 200
Miles perhaps..?? ) and you are looking for a highly
available , 'Multimaster' kinda environment.
This kind of setup is common in
oh-don't-say-the-name-companies i.e. 'dot bombs' and
companies with regional offices around the world, with
certain variations.
I think off the top of the top of head I can say
Amazon as an example.
To clear some points before jumping to solutions,
1. Is the critical data would be updated in the
sites..?
2. If yes , are you expecting the other sites to 'see'
this update...?
3. If one site is down, then are you expecting the
other sites to share the load or you have the closest
site in take in all the load...?

Depending upon the answer you have to make a choice.
For example, I notice you have been discussing "RAC"
as a possible solution. In this case ,since you have
multiple sites , which is going to be the Primary..?
or are you proposing to use a "RAC" for each site..?
Wouldn't a third party assisted solution be more
scalable and cost effective..?
Like EMC or HP's XP storage solution has some kinda
'track' or 'Block' replicating mechanism between the
storage, which is extendable in term of geographical
location...?

Or if you are looking to share the load like in
question 3 above, then wouldn't it be easy to 
Get a 'replicating' software to help replicate the
data in real time or near real time...? Example , like
said before quest software's shareplex. This can give
you master-master replication capabilities.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,
RS

--- "Freeman, Robert " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Log application services can run in foreground or
> background now, but I
> don't think the
> database can be open read-only at the same time
> while doing managed
> recovery, even in 
> 9i. 
> 


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RE: RE: RE: Stand-by (Oracle9i Data Guard) vs. Replication

[Sakthi , Raj]

Robert,
If I understand your requirements correctly,
You have multiple sites separated geographically ( 200
Miles perhaps..?? ) and you are looking for a highly
available , 'Multimaster' kinda environment.
This kind of setup is common in
oh-don't-say-the-name-companies i.e. 'dot bombs' and
companies with regional offices around the world, with
certain variations.
I think off the top of the top of head I can say
Amazon as an example.
To clear some points before jumping to solutions,
1. Is the critical data would be updated in the
sites..?
2. If yes , are you expecting the other sites to 'see'
this update...?
3. If one site is down, then are you expecting the
other sites to share the load or you have the closest
site in take in all the load...?

Depending upon the answer you have to make a choice.
For example, I notice you have been discussing "RAC"
as a possible solution. In this case ,since you have
multiple sites , which is going to be the Primary..?
or are you proposing to use a "RAC" for each site..?
Wouldn't a third party assisted solution be more
scalable and cost effective..?
Like EMC or HP's XP storage solution has some kinda
'track' or 'Block' replicating mechanism between the
storage, which is extendable in term of geographical
location…?

Or if you are looking to share the load like in
question 3 above, then wouldn’t it be easy to 
Get a ‘replicating’ software to help replicate the
data in real time or near real time…? Example , like
said before quest software’s shareplex. This can give
you master-master replication capabilities.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,
RS

--- "Freeman, Robert " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Log application services can run in foreground or
> background now, but I
> don't think the
> database can be open read-only at the same time
> while doing managed
> recovery, even in 
> 9i. 
> 


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RE: RE: RE: Stand-by (Oracle9i Data Guard) vs. Replication

[Freeman, Robert]

Log application services can run in foreground or background now, but I
don't think the
database can be open read-only at the same time while doing managed
recovery, even in 
9i. 

Really, there is no read-only requirement in the architecture I'm looking
at.

RF

Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP
Oracle DBA Technical Lead
CSX Midtier Database Administration

The Cigarette Smoking Man: Anyone who can appease a man's conscience can
take his freedom away from him.



-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 3:46 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Dick - In the Oracle Backup and Recovery Class I took recently, I recall the
instructor saying that restriction had been lifted in Oracle9i. I can't find
my note on this, so don't take it as gospel, but it might be worth looking
into if that would make a difference in the decisions.
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 2:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Robert,

Either way, I do believe that you can't have a standby database in both
managed recovery and read only access at the same time which could be your
biggest problem.  The application would have to understand that under normal
circumstances it's getting data from database 'X' and during failures from
database 'Y'.  This kind of thing gets messy as well.  Therefore your best
bet
is for local objects that are replicated from elsewhere & since all sites
can
update all data your rather stuck.  And as far as the network going down,
yours
in a similar comment that our network specialist made some 2 years ago,
until a
back hoe operator ripped out about 1/4 mile of fiber near our building.
Took
the local yokels 4 days to get it repaired.  So don't say 'never' as it
definitely can come back to bite you.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Freeman; Robert " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/25/2002 2:52 PM

Thanks for your thoughts Dick! Actually, look into Data Guard in 9i and you
will find that you are no longer constrained by archive log switches!! I'm
really concerned with the conflict resolution issues with MM Replication.
I've done something like this once before, with only 2 sites, but it's been
so long that it's a hazy distant memory. As I recall, the conflict
resolution was a bear.

They are intending on doing the resolution based on a date column and just
saying that the latest date winds... they have a method of keeping the
date/time on the servers in sync as long as the network is up, but my
concern is what happens when it goes down and that date/time sync no longer
is working or what happens when the system goes down and they also
replace the hardware and the date/time is not sync'd for several days until
the network is back.

But... then I ask myself how often that will happen too... ;-)

Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP
Oracle DBA Technical Lead
CSX Midtier Database Administration

The Cigarette Smoking Man: Anyone who can appease a man's conscience can
take his freedom away from him.



-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 2:37 PM
To: Freeman, Robert ; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Robert,

Given what you've said it would appear that your only choice is going to
be
symetric/advanced replication, multi-master.  The conflict resolution rules
may
be a bear to set up with 5 sites though.  Using a standby db would not be
very
effective since data updates are dependent on the archive log switch points
and
that does not address the different sites if your reason for failure is a
network related one.  Snapshots won't work either since they are read only.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Freeman; Robert " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/25/2002 9:48 AM

Pretty stringent. They want as little latency as possible. Changes at
a master should be available to all sites ASAP. Now, they could all go
to one central site, and thats ok as long as our networking is healthy,
but if it goes down, there is a requirement that they be able to work
independently (there are 4-5 sites) and then all changes need to be
synchronized. Data loss is secondary to availability however.

These requirements smack of trouble to me.

Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP
Oracle DBA Technical Lead
CSX Midtier Database Administration

The Cigarette Smoking Man: Anyone who can appease a man's conscience can
take his freedom away from him.



-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 11:48 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


What type of requirement or SLA do you have in regards to keeping the
instances in sync?

-Joe

--- "Freeman, Robert " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Stand-by (Oracle9i Data Guard) vs. Replication
> 
> Folks,
> 
> I have a mission critical system we are architectonic right now.
> There is some argument of the merits of replication vs. using
> Standby database going 

RE: RE: RE: Stand-by (Oracle9i Data Guard) vs. Replication

[DENNIS WILLIAMS]

Dick - In the Oracle Backup and Recovery Class I took recently, I recall the
instructor saying that restriction had been lifted in Oracle9i. I can't find
my note on this, so don't take it as gospel, but it might be worth looking
into if that would make a difference in the decisions.
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 2:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Robert,

Either way, I do believe that you can't have a standby database in both
managed recovery and read only access at the same time which could be your
biggest problem.  The application would have to understand that under normal
circumstances it's getting data from database 'X' and during failures from
database 'Y'.  This kind of thing gets messy as well.  Therefore your best
bet
is for local objects that are replicated from elsewhere & since all sites
can
update all data your rather stuck.  And as far as the network going down,
yours
in a similar comment that our network specialist made some 2 years ago,
until a
back hoe operator ripped out about 1/4 mile of fiber near our building.
Took
the local yokels 4 days to get it repaired.  So don't say 'never' as it
definitely can come back to bite you.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Freeman; Robert " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/25/2002 2:52 PM

Thanks for your thoughts Dick! Actually, look into Data Guard in 9i and you
will find that you are no longer constrained by archive log switches!! I'm
really concerned with the conflict resolution issues with MM Replication.
I've done something like this once before, with only 2 sites, but it's been
so long that it's a hazy distant memory. As I recall, the conflict
resolution was a bear.

They are intending on doing the resolution based on a date column and just
saying that the latest date winds... they have a method of keeping the
date/time on the servers in sync as long as the network is up, but my
concern is what happens when it goes down and that date/time sync no longer
is working or what happens when the system goes down and they also
replace the hardware and the date/time is not sync'd for several days until
the network is back.

But... then I ask myself how often that will happen too... ;-)

Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP
Oracle DBA Technical Lead
CSX Midtier Database Administration

The Cigarette Smoking Man: Anyone who can appease a man's conscience can
take his freedom away from him.



-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 2:37 PM
To: Freeman, Robert ; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Robert,

Given what you've said it would appear that your only choice is going to
be
symetric/advanced replication, multi-master.  The conflict resolution rules
may
be a bear to set up with 5 sites though.  Using a standby db would not be
very
effective since data updates are dependent on the archive log switch points
and
that does not address the different sites if your reason for failure is a
network related one.  Snapshots won't work either since they are read only.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Freeman; Robert " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/25/2002 9:48 AM

Pretty stringent. They want as little latency as possible. Changes at
a master should be available to all sites ASAP. Now, they could all go
to one central site, and thats ok as long as our networking is healthy,
but if it goes down, there is a requirement that they be able to work
independently (there are 4-5 sites) and then all changes need to be
synchronized. Data loss is secondary to availability however.

These requirements smack of trouble to me.

Robert G. Freeman - Oracle8i OCP
Oracle DBA Technical Lead
CSX Midtier Database Administration

The Cigarette Smoking Man: Anyone who can appease a man's conscience can
take his freedom away from him.



-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 11:48 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


What type of requirement or SLA do you have in regards to keeping the
instances in sync?

-Joe

--- "Freeman, Robert " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Stand-by (Oracle9i Data Guard) vs. Replication
> 
> Folks,
> 
> I have a mission critical system we are architectonic right now.
> There is some argument of the merits of replication vs. using
> Standby database going on.
> 
> Current we have 4 sites that we will be replicating data back and
> forth between. There are 3 kinds of data:
> 
> 1. Network Critical data (must be available for entire network)
> 2. Regional Critical data (only used for a given region. site =
> region).
> 3. Regional non-critical data (this is data that is easily
> recovered from
> other operational data stores).
> 
> I can load you up with details, but for now this is the general
> requirement. We want a given site to be able to work independently
> of the other sites in the event of network failure (WAN).
> 
>

RE: RE: RE: Time for a reorg?

[Mark Leith]

I agree with this! One of our biggest challenges is trying to stay ahead of
the game! Luckily we don't actually develop any of this software, so the
challenge is not ours to partake in ;P What we do have to try and do is pick
and choose those products that are ahead of the game, and we feel our
product set meets those challenges.. Especially Ari's PocketDBA/Admin tools,
and SQLExpert - which is streets ahead of *any* other SQL Optimisation tool
in the market - including Oracle's own..

I have to say though - even though I'm a "sales critter" - I wouldn't change
my job for the world! I have thought long and hard about becoming a fully
fledged DBA, and have nearly taken that step, but - with my job as is, I am
not only challenged daily by keeping on top of the database market (focusing
on Oracle, but including SQLServer, Sybase and DB2) but also challenged by
trying to convince DBAs (*THE* most awkward bunch of people in the *world*
to sell to! ;P) that these products can actually be good for them!

I loose on a daily basis - some propeller heads you just *can't* convince,
but then we win a hell of a lot as well -  it keeps me on my toes, and keeps
my family fed and watered comfortably thank you very much.. ;) Plus, part
running a company does have it's own very distinct benefits, and hell I get
to play with all of these really "Cool Tools"! ;P



-Original Message-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 13 March 2002 16:38
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Your welcome.  The problem with these changing paradigms is that there are
folks, like Mark, out there creating tools to make our lives easier but at
the
same time the shift makes theirs more difficult.  It follows my theory on
the
balance of life.  If you change the amount of effort required to do one task
the
amount effort to accomplish a different one must increase.  In this case we
win,
Mark looses. :-)

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Hallas John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/13/2002 6:33 AM

Thanks Dick,
I think what you are saying ties in exactly with my post on the matter

John

-Original Message-
Sent: 13 March 2002 13:53
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Yes, I think databases still get reorg'd today.  It is just that our
definition
of a reorg and a database I think are changing.  In the past if you said you
were going to reorg a database that a full export, possibly a rebuild and an
import.  Way too time consuming for today's 24x7 requirements.  Today I
think we
reorg at the object or schema level, not the entire instance.  BTW, I think
our
definition of a database is also changing from the entire instance to a
single
schema.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Mark Leith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/13/2002 3:38 AM

Wow - does nobody reorg databases anymore? ;P

Thanks for all your help guys.. I'll take that as a cue to put some time
aside..;0P

-Original Message-
Sent: 12 March 2002 11:43
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Does anyone have any "set limits" to know when it would be time for object
reorgs?

Firstly, I *know* that the reorg issue is viciously guarded on two sides -
those that say reorgs should be done, and those that argue that they are
unnecessary in todays environments. I agree with both sides ;P And don't
intend this to break out the debate for the nth time..

What I am really after is guidelines from people to their own views of when
a reorg is deemed necessary. Things such as percentage of rows that are
chained/migrated, or number of extents, or number of extents as a percentage
of maxextents or whatever..

Anybody come up with a really cool script that evaluates this - instead of
me re-inventing the wheel? I could do this - I just don't really have the
time at the moment - so your input is greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance

Mark

===
 Mark Leith | T: +44 (0)1905 330 281
 Sales & Marketing  | F: +44 (0)870 127 5283
 Cool Tools UK Ltd  | E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
   http://www.cool-tools.co.uk
   Maximising throughput & performance


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  INET: [

RE: RE: Re: NYOUG

[Jim Hawkins]

Rachel,

SLOUG would definitely pay your travel expenses, and since our meetings run from 1PM 
to 5PM, it could really amount to just a day trip for you if you want.  You could fly 
in that morning, have some lunch, deliver your topic, then take off (unless you wanted 
to see the city of St. Louis or something).  We meet every other month, and the next 
meeting is in April (the third Thursday).  I realize this could be too soon, so maybe 
the June or August meeting.  Or, I totally understand if you've decided to give up the 
speaking gig altogether, so don't feel bad saying "NO!"

And also, thanks for the other information about finding speakers.

Jim

P.S.  Our website is www.sloug.org in case you are interested.

Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>Jim,
>
>I might be interested in speaking, depends on dates and if the user
>group pays expenses :)  I am  supposedly cutting back on doing
>presentations.
>
>Meanwhile, NYOUG doesn't pay expenses, but unlike most other user
>groups I've been to, we have a significant number of speakers. Most
>others have 2-3 speakers for the day and we have 11 speakers each
>meeting.  We are changing this for our September meeting and going
>forward, we will continue to have a keynote but will have 4
>presentation time slots rather than 5, giving speakers a few more
>minutes for questions, and to allow the next speaker to set up while
>the prior speaker is still answering questions.
>
>As to how I get speakers... we post a call for papers on our website
>and I've gotten some excellent speakers that way. I go to conferences
>and buttonhole people there who are good speakers. NYOUG has an
>excellent member base and they on occasion ask to present. I beg and
>plead and grovel before my friends as well :)  The other members of the
>board also beat up (er, persuade) people they meet to get in touch with
>me for possible presentations.
>
>Rachel
>
>
>--- Jim Hawkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Rachel,
>> 
>> On a related note, I am now on the St. Louis OUG board, and have the
>> same responsibilities of arranging speakers.  May I ask what your
>> methodology is for this, as well as if you would be interested in
>> speaking?
>> 
>> :)
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>> >well, I'll be there, I sorta kinda have to, since I organize the
>> >speakers and chair the DBA SIG
>> >
>> >it will be a very good meeting.. all authors, Kevin Loney, Rich
>> >Niemiec, John Beresniewicz, Douglas Scherer, Gaja Krishna
>> Vaidyanatha,
>> >Ulka Rodgers, Paul Dorsey (I don't think I've left anyone out, this
>> is
>> >from memory!)
>> >
>> >check the website... www.nyoug.org
>> >
>> >
>> >--- "Sakthi , Raj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> Listers,
>> >> Talking about IOUG, I was wondering who are all
>> >> attending NYOUG (damagement won't spansor me to attend
>> >> IOUG ;( )
>> >> 
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> RS 
>> >> 
>> >> __
>> >> Do You Yahoo!?
>> >> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
>> >> http://mail.yahoo.com/
>> >> -- 
>> >> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>> >> -- 
>> >> Author: Sakthi , Raj
>> >>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >> 
>> >> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858)
>> 538-5051
>> >> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
>> >> Lists
>> >>
>> 
>> >> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>> >> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and
>> in
>> >> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>> >> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You
>> may
>> >> also send the HELP command for other information (like
>> subscribing).
>> >
>> >
>> >__
>> >Do You Yahoo!?
>> >Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
>> >http://mail.yahoo.com/
>> >-- 
>> >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
>> >-- 
>> >Author: Rachel Carmichael
>> >  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >
>> >Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>> >San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
>> Lists
>> >
>> >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>> >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>> >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>> >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>> >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>> >
>> -- 
>> _
>> Jim Hawkins
>> Oracle Database Administrator
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> St. Louis, MO  USA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> __
>> Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and

RE: RE: RE: RE: Manager decrees "his" data warehouse design.

[Michael Cupp]

What is the avg rate for a NAS?  Where is a good place to buy?

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:03 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Actually, they're different.

SAN = faster, more $$$ (e.g. EMC)
NAS = slower, less $$$ (e.g. Network Appliance)


-JC

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 9:38 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Patrice,

They are synonyms for each other as far as I understand.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Boivin; Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/28/2002 3:38 AM

I guess the reverse of SAME is EMAS, where Everything Makes Absolute Sense.

: )

NAS, is that the same thing as a SAN? 
Network - Attached Storage
Storage Area Network

Here we have a couple of "SANs", but I think they also fit the description you gave of 
an NAS.

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)


 -Original Message-
Sent:   Wednesday, February 27, 2002 6:53 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

S.A.M.E, Stripe And Mirror Everything.  It's a concept that came from an individual at 
Oracle with a significant pile of alphabet soup after his name who has lost most of 
his credibility anywhere.

  He was speaking though of Network Attached Storage (NAS) stuff where you really 
don't have to worry about the mount point/drive letter where you put the datafile(s).  
These neato devices do make some of the DBA's tasks of IO balancing meaningless since 
they do stripe data across multiple disks and run hardware mirroring in the 
background.  In turn they retrieve your data from the most efficient place possible & 
buffer your writes in cache memory that 'guarantees' that it will absolutely make it 
to disk.

  What I think has happen is that some of his idea was taken out of context, though 
not out of quote, and made meaningless.  You should still have logical database design 
and multiple tablespaces/datafiles.  It's just that you really don't care is 
everything is on drive H.

Dick Goulet
PS: I've not implemented such an idea & have no intention thereof in the near future.  
Reason, NAS storage is not here.

Reply Separator
Author: "Michael Cupp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/27/2002 1:20 PM

S.A.M.E.?

-- 
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-- 
Author: Boivin, Patrice J
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RE: RE: RE: Manager decrees "his" data warehouse design. Hel

[Jared . Still]

They're different.

As I understand it, in a nutshell:

NAS)  A bunch of disks connected to the network

SAN)  A bunch of disks connected to the network, but with management
that allows dedication of storage to a server/application.

It doesn't have to be just disk:  any storage device.

Here's a 'Quick Study' link:

http://computerworld.com/cwi/story/0,1199,NAV47-68-85-1950-1974_STO43527,00.html

Jared






"Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
02/28/02 03:38 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
Subject:RE: RE: RE: Manager decrees "his" data warehouse design.  Hel


I guess the reverse of SAME is EMAS, where Everything Makes Absolute 
Sense.

: )

NAS, is that the same thing as a SAN? 
Network - Attached Storage
Storage Area Network

Here we have a couple of "SANs", but I think they also fit the description
you gave of an NAS.

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)


 -Original Message-
Sent:Wednesday, February 27, 2002 6:53 PM
To:  Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
design.  Hel

S.A.M.E, Stripe And Mirror Everything.  It's a concept that came from an
individual at Oracle with a significant pile of alphabet soup after his 
name
who
has lost most of his credibility anywhere.

  He was speaking though of Network Attached Storage (NAS) stuff where you
really don't have to worry about the mount point/drive letter where you 
put
the
datafile(s).  These neato devices do make some of the DBA's tasks of IO
balancing meaningless since they do stripe data across multiple disks and
run
hardware mirroring in the background.  In turn they retrieve your data 
from
the
most efficient place possible & buffer your writes in cache memory that
'guarantees' that it will absolutely make it to disk.

  What I think has happen is that some of his idea was taken out of 
context,
though not out of quote, and made meaningless.  You should still have
logical
database design and multiple tablespaces/datafiles.  It's just that you
really
don't care is everything is on drive H.

Dick Goulet
PS: I've not implemented such an idea & have no intention thereof in the
near
future.  Reason, NAS storage is not here.

Reply Separator
Author: "Michael Cupp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/27/2002 1:20 PM

S.A.M.E.?

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Boivin, Patrice J
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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-- 
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RE: RE: RE: RE: Manager decrees "his" data warehouse design.

[Cunningham, Gerald]

Actually, they're different.

SAN = faster, more $$$ (e.g. EMC)
NAS = slower, less $$$ (e.g. Network Appliance)


-JC

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 9:38 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Patrice,

They are synonyms for each other as far as I understand.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Boivin; Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/28/2002 3:38 AM

I guess the reverse of SAME is EMAS, where Everything Makes Absolute Sense.

: )

NAS, is that the same thing as a SAN? 
Network - Attached Storage
Storage Area Network

Here we have a couple of "SANs", but I think they also fit the description
you gave of an NAS.

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)


 -Original Message-
Sent:   Wednesday, February 27, 2002 6:53 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

S.A.M.E, Stripe And Mirror Everything.  It's a concept that came from an
individual at Oracle with a significant pile of alphabet soup after his name
who has lost most of his credibility anywhere.

  He was speaking though of Network Attached Storage (NAS) stuff where you
really don't have to worry about the mount point/drive letter where you put
the datafile(s).  These neato devices do make some of the DBA's tasks of IO
balancing meaningless since they do stripe data across multiple disks and
run hardware mirroring in the background.  In turn they retrieve your data
from the most efficient place possible & buffer your writes in cache memory
that 'guarantees' that it will absolutely make it to disk.

  What I think has happen is that some of his idea was taken out of context,
though not out of quote, and made meaningless.  You should still have
logical database design and multiple tablespaces/datafiles.  It's just that
you really don't care is everything is on drive H.

Dick Goulet
PS: I've not implemented such an idea & have no intention thereof in the
near future.  Reason, NAS storage is not here.

Reply Separator
Author: "Michael Cupp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/27/2002 1:20 PM

S.A.M.E.?

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Boivin, Patrice J
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: RE: RE: Manager decrees "his" data warehouse design. Hel

[אדר יחיאל]

Especially management decisions like the one that started this thread.

Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> -Original Message-
> From: Boivin, Patrice J [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thu, February 28, 2002 1:38 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  RE: RE: RE: Manager decrees "his" data warehouse design.
> Hel
> 
> I guess the reverse of SAME is EMAS, where Everything Makes Absolute
> Sense.
> 
> : )
> 
> NAS, is that the same thing as a SAN? 
> Network - Attached Storage
> Storage Area Network
> 
> Here we have a couple of "SANs", but I think they also fit the description
> you gave of an NAS.
> 
> Regards,
> Patrice Boivin
> Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
> 
> 
>  -Original Message-
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 6:53 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  Re:RE: RE: Manager decrees "his" data warehouse design.  Hel
> 
> S.A.M.E, Stripe And Mirror Everything.  It's a concept that came from an
> individual at Oracle with a significant pile of alphabet soup after his
> name
> who
> has lost most of his credibility anywhere.
> 
>   He was speaking though of Network Attached Storage (NAS) stuff where you
> really don't have to worry about the mount point/drive letter where you
> put
> the
> datafile(s).  These neato devices do make some of the DBA's tasks of IO
> balancing meaningless since they do stripe data across multiple disks and
> run
> hardware mirroring in the background.  In turn they retrieve your data
> from
> the
> most efficient place possible & buffer your writes in cache memory that
> 'guarantees' that it will absolutely make it to disk.
> 
>   What I think has happen is that some of his idea was taken out of
> context,
> though not out of quote, and made meaningless.  You should still have
> logical
> database design and multiple tablespaces/datafiles.  It's just that you
> really
> don't care is everything is on drive H.
> 
> Dick Goulet
> PS: I've not implemented such an idea & have no intention thereof in the
> near
> future.  Reason, NAS storage is not here.
> 
> Reply Separator
> Author: "Michael Cupp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   2/27/2002 1:20 PM
> 
> S.A.M.E.?
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Boivin, Patrice J
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

-- 
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Author: =?iso-8859-8?Q?=E0=E3=F8_=E9=E7=E9=E0=EC?=
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RE: RE: RE: Manager decrees "his" data warehouse design. Hel

[April Wells]

details... details... statistics NEVER lie!

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 4:37 PM
To: April Wells; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Any query against an empty table always FLIES!! 

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: April Wells <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/27/2002 11:43 AM

How much do you charge an hour?  They want to build a table with 980
columns, because the queries fly if you index it heavily.  It won't load...
the indexes won't build from load to load if you drop them... but the
QUERIES... they JUST F*L*Y!

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:28 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I think the column limit is now closer to 1000, but like you, I can't 
imagine 
willingly designing a table with a column count exceeding 2 digits.

More than 15 or 20 and I start to question the design.

Jared





[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
02/27/02 10:58 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
Subject:Re:RE: Manager decrees "his" data warehouse design.
Help!


I seem to remember reading somewhere that there can be a maximum of 255 
columns
in a table.  Never created a table with half that many before.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date:   2/27/2002 10:28 AM

April,

I sincerely hope you're being facetious with the statement that 
"queries run so much faster if you take all the joins out"

1000 columns!? 
How many rows like that will fit in a block?  Your system has to wade 
through
a lot of extraneous data to get a few columns for a query.

How do you index it?  You can't.

It would be most interesting if you share your benchmarks with us.

Jared







April Wells <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
02/27/02 03:48 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
Subject:RE: Manager decrees "his" data warehouse design. 
Help!


I agree, but at all costs... DOCUMENT EVERYTHING so it proves you made 
your
suggestions and then went by the book on following what he decreed.  We 
are
facing similar problems (although not quite to your degree) and we are 
going
to do two proof of concepts... on that denormalizes EVERYTHING into big
GIANT tables (very nearly 1000 columns each)... because queries run so 
much
faster if you take all the joins out... and one using a star-flake kind of
model because it follows the standard (to the Nth degree)... we will ADOPT
something about halfway in between... but we need to waste the time now
following protocol to prove what we already know.

Good Luck!
ajw

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 3:18 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Don,
if as you are saying this guy is v headstrong then use the "Chinese
approach".
1. Ensure that you have backed up your argument with a design or at least 
a
doc outlining your approach showing that views and associated tables will
ensure performance .
2. Send your emails to him and to others so that there is a trace.
3. Then wait and let it blow up. This should not take too long as the 
   spec never included any indexes either.
   This way you have followed his design to the letter.
4. Let the users kill him when they have to wait 2 hours for the statement
to return a value.
4. This means that you will have time to perfect a design using a CASE 
tool.
5. In the end his table could be used as a staging area 

Just wait don't get annoyed, smile.
Just think you can have his job soon.



Kind Regards
Peter Lomax (Oracle DBA)
Expertise Oracle
ORANGE/DSI/SIMBAD/AT&P
OrangeFrance
Bureau:
email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
tel:(+33) (0)1 55 22 59 13
fax:(+33) (0)1 55 22 39 69
Simbad sailing through UMTS.


-Message d'origine-
De : Don [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Envoyé : mercredi 27 février 2002 07:48
A : Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Objet : Manager decrees "his" data warehouse design. Help!


I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT 
manager has decreed that we will have "his" data warehouse running within 
24 hours, and we will use his design.

1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views.
2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups
3 - we are to have everything in one table
4 - "the" table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk
5 - we are not to "start" or "snowflake" designs.  "That's just a bunch of 


high power talk."
6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at "their" 
data.  (These are users that were just converted off from "green screen" 
teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.)
7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions.
8 - We are to load into "an" Oracle table, all legacy t

RE: RE: RE: Manager decrees "his" data warehouse design. Hel

[Boivin, Patrice J]

I guess the reverse of SAME is EMAS, where Everything Makes Absolute Sense.

: )

NAS, is that the same thing as a SAN? 
Network - Attached Storage
Storage Area Network

Here we have a couple of "SANs", but I think they also fit the description
you gave of an NAS.

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)


 -Original Message-
Sent:   Wednesday, February 27, 2002 6:53 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:Re:RE: RE: Manager decrees "his" data warehouse design.  Hel

S.A.M.E, Stripe And Mirror Everything.  It's a concept that came from an
individual at Oracle with a significant pile of alphabet soup after his name
who
has lost most of his credibility anywhere.

  He was speaking though of Network Attached Storage (NAS) stuff where you
really don't have to worry about the mount point/drive letter where you put
the
datafile(s).  These neato devices do make some of the DBA's tasks of IO
balancing meaningless since they do stripe data across multiple disks and
run
hardware mirroring in the background.  In turn they retrieve your data from
the
most efficient place possible & buffer your writes in cache memory that
'guarantees' that it will absolutely make it to disk.

  What I think has happen is that some of his idea was taken out of context,
though not out of quote, and made meaningless.  You should still have
logical
database design and multiple tablespaces/datafiles.  It's just that you
really
don't care is everything is on drive H.

Dick Goulet
PS: I've not implemented such an idea & have no intention thereof in the
near
future.  Reason, NAS storage is not here.

Reply Separator
Author: "Michael Cupp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/27/2002 1:20 PM

S.A.M.E.?

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Author: Boivin, Patrice J
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Re: Re Re: Due apologies for DDLs

[Rachel Carmichael]

Okay, I stillthink I like my own scripts to extract ddl better :)



--- Cyril  Thankappan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> U r right ..I still dunno 'much' about perl..
> 
> as for dbms_metadata
> 
> it is a built in pl/sql package
> 
> saying 
> 
> 'select dbms_metadata.get_ddl(object_type,object_name,schema_name)
> from dual;
> 
> gives the entire ddl creation script.
> 
> However, 'interestingly' 
> execute dbms_metadata.get_ddl does not work
> as well!
> 
> More interestingly metalink does not have much on it either..
> I guess it works too well
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Cyril 
> 
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> --
> Author: Cyril  Thankappan
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
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> Lists
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