Thanx - I cleared the exam -- another OCP question

[Prem Khanna J]

Hi list , thanx a lot to all of you .
i cleared the #1Z0-031 exam last week .
thanx again for all the support given by you friends.

Kind Regards,
Prem.
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RE: Thanx - I cleared the exam -- another OCP question

[DENNIS WILLIAMS]

Prem - We had no doubt. I always figure when you've studied enough to doubt
your study guide, you're ready to pass the exam.

Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
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-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 6:04 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi list , thanx a lot to all of you .
i cleared the #1Z0-031 exam last week .
thanx again for all the support given by you friends.

Kind Regards,
Prem.
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RE: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Thater, William]

Pete Sharman  scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon:

 Well, so here's the challenge for RMOUG training days - loosening
 Rachel's lips.  Who's gonna join me in this endeavour?  :) 

oh i have several methods i'd like to try.;-)

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Re: OCP question from Boson practice tests

[A Joshi]

Hi,
 This is from a metalink note 1039341.6. It is about 'DEFAULT STORAGE'. I do not know if the OCP question was regarding that. 
***

Use the following guidelines to specify DEFAULT STORAGE: Set INITIAL=NEXT.Since a process always writes data equal to SORT_AREA_SIZE to a temporary segment, a good value for the extentsize is (n*s + b) 
 
 where: n is a positive integer 
 s is the value of SORT_AREA_SIZE initialization parameter
 b is the value of DB_BLOCK_SIZE initialization parameter 
 
 Using this value optimizes temporary segment usage by allowingsufficient space for a header block and multiple sort run data to bestored in each extent. 
Is this not correct? Forget OCP. I was just want clarify this issue. Good luck for the exams Prem. 
Further to that if I give my sort area size as a very odd number which is not a multiple of OS block size then what happens.
Thank You[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Prem ,OCP has nothing to do with knowledge and nothing to do with the real world.So if you want to give OCP, forget what you know and humbly, play by itsrules.Right now if your are serious about giving OCP exams then pleaseenable "suspension of disbelief" , don't ask why and just mug up thefollowing 3 (any one of them may come up in the ocp exam , though nottogether) :1.To optimize the performance of a sort in a temprary tablespace , set theUNIFORM SIZE to be a multiple of the parameter sort_area_size2.To optimize the performance of a sort in a temprary tablespace , set theUNIFORM SIZE to be a multiple of sort_area_size * db_block_size3.To optimize the performance of a sort in a temprary tablespace , set theUNIFORM SIZE to be n * sort_area_size + db_block_size.OCP has nothing to do with
 knowledge and nothing to do with the real world.So if you want to give OCP, forget what you know and play by its rules.Best of luck .
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RE: Re[2]: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Jamadagni, Rajendra]

-Original Message-

[irrelevant stuff deleted]
 P.S. I can work powerpoint too. 

Close your Powerpoint.exe and S L O W L Y back away from the keyboard and nobody gets 
hurt ... 

Raj

Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !
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Re: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Richard Foote]

 1. Assume boson is right and recheck your answer.

I disagree.

Based on the questions and answers I've seen here, I would recommend that
one assumes Boson is *wrong*, scratch one's head in mild confusion, utter a
few expletives under one's breath and move on.

Cheers ;)

Richard


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Re: Re[1]: OCP question from Boson practice tests

[Richard Foote]

- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 1:59 AM


 My question, Richard, is can a person pass the exam just by studying
 what is correct? Or is it necessary to work harder to acquire some
 veneer of false knowledge specifically in order to pass the exam?


Hi Cary

Yes you can.

That's why you're allowed to get 1/3 of the questions wrong and still pass
the exam !!

In defence of the questions, it's actually not that easy to write a multiple
choice question that is both challenging AND non-ambiguous. The more complex
an issue, the less likely you're going to successfully bind up a
comprehensive and accurate answer in a single statement. That's why so many
of the questions are so trivial, that's why the exams are so trivial and
that's why the multiple choice method is so awful in determining an OCP.
Attempts of questions to go beyond syntax, parameter settings, etc. often
cause confusion and debate because the answer to the more complex issue
isn't as simplistic as the question writers hoped it to be.

Interestingly, during beta testing, questions get selected based on how many
people actually get the same (hopefully) correct answer. If most people
agree with an answer, then the question is less likely to be ambiguous. So
by intentional design, the OCP exams are actually aimed and geared towards
the lowest common denominator.

So in short Cary, you have a fair to average chance of passing the exams :)

Cheers

Richard


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Re: Re[1]: OCP question from Boson practice tests

[Richard Foote]

Hi Prem

Comments in line.

 Hi Richard ,

 Many a thanx for both of your replies .
 All my worry is :  do such questions appear in the real exams also ?

Although there are certainly some dodgy questions and correspondingly suz
answers, I think you'll find the majority of the OCP exam will have
'relatively' clear answers. Certainly enough to make a failure be a
deservable event :) My biggest wish would be for there to be 3 additional
selections to most questions:

F) what does it matter so who cares

G) you would check the syntax, correct parameter name, etc. in the manuals

H) it depends

because the above 3 answers are generally (often collectively) the *correct*
answer to the questions.


 And your reply has increased my self-confidence.
 particularly the line :
 RFTrust what you *see*, not what you *read*. /RF

 RFYou actually proven this yourself and yet you still have doubts? /RF
 yes Richard  : (
 hope i will not repeat this as time goes and my experience grows.
 i.e., i will be more confident with my answers .

Experience only comes with time. And in time, your confidence will grow.

Trust me, you'll get there.


 okay , coming back to the sizing of temp tablespace question .
 if suppose , such a question appears in the exam too ( my bad luck ) ,
 what will be your two best answers  ?


Honestly, with this question, I would keep a mental picture of the thing,
pick any 2 answers (users and sort_area_size would be my pick but as I said,
they're simply not correct), move on to the next question and report back to
Oracle what the hell they meant by the bloody thing.

Cheers (and good luck)

Richard


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Re: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)

[Richard Foote]

 We'll thats exactly what I'm doing right now, studying Oracle University
 instructor guides to temporarily start thinking like OU myself again -
I'll
 be instructing an OCP Review course next week, meant for people who want
to
 pass OCP. And in order to not distract the students, I won't even mention
 the real life situation too much, except in really misleading cases...


Hi  Tanel

I have a Dr. friend of mine who teaches heart surgeons how to pass their
medical exams.

Basically he simply teaches them to rip out the offending organ (generally
found towards the left hand side of the upper chest), give it a bit of a
squeeze, shake out any crap that might be inside, measure the Beats outside
Chest Heart Ratio (BCHR), stick it back in, hope it's done some good and
that the patient at least survives until they're 10 miles from the hospital.

He tells the students that it's important to do the above steps in the
correct order as it's in the medical exam.

After the students have scribbled everything down, he then leans forward and
quietly whispers to them that in the real world, heart surgeons actual
first check whether or not it's actually necessary to cut out the heart
*beforehand*. He then gives them a little wink and a nod, the students
usually reply with an hh and the class moves on to discuss how to
remove blood stains from their white surgical outfits.

IMHO it's all a little scary and a touch surreal and yet it all sounds
strangely familiar ...

Cheers ;)

Richard


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RE: Re[1]: OCP question from Boson practice tests

[Thater, William]

Richard Foote  scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon:

 So in short Cary, you have a fair to average chance of passing the
 exams :) 

that's Ok for Cary, what about us mere mortals?;-)

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Re: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)

[Tanel Poder]

 After the students have scribbled everything down, he then leans forward
and
 quietly whispers to them that in the real world, heart surgeons actual
 first check whether or not it's actually necessary to cut out the heart
 *beforehand*. He then gives them a little wink and a nod, the students
 usually reply with an hh and the class moves on to discuss how
to
 remove blood stains from their white surgical outfits.

 IMHO it's all a little scary and a touch surreal and yet it all sounds
 strangely familiar ...

And they don't have too many backups either :(

Tanel.


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Re: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Mogens Nørgaard]

I demand to know who the other one is!

Mogens

Rachel Carmichael wrote:

you leave me such straight lines :)

which part is qualified as an accountant?

you volunteer to be the sacrificial lamb? Hm, masochist?

Before Jared tries to send everyone over to my list on this topic, I'll
try to bring it at least slightly back on topic.  I really don't care
if someone has a degree or has completed the OCP exams. I want to see
what they have done in practice, or if they are interviewing for a
truly junior position, I want to know how they learn, what they've
played with on their own. 

Two of the smartest men I have ever known never finished college.

--- Niall Litchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 

Rachel writes
   

Now I understand their use, I shall immediately go out and 
hire an art history major as the deparmental sacrifical lamb 
(and dartboard while we are at it)
 

Hey I have an *economics* degree, *and* am a part-qualified
accountant. I
claim that sacrificial lamb position as my own. Nothing so useful as
Art in
my background, just graphs with the axes befuddled. 

Niall

P.S. I can work powerpoint too. 

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Re: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Rachel Carmichael]

my lips are sealed... G


--- Mogens_Nørgaard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I demand to know who the other one is!
 
 Mogens
 
 Rachel Carmichael wrote:
 
 you leave me such straight lines :)
 
 which part is qualified as an accountant?
 
 you volunteer to be the sacrificial lamb? Hm, masochist?
 
 Before Jared tries to send everyone over to my list on this topic,
 I'll
 try to bring it at least slightly back on topic.  I really don't
 care
 if someone has a degree or has completed the OCP exams. I want to
 see
 what they have done in practice, or if they are interviewing for a
 truly junior position, I want to know how they learn, what they've
 played with on their own. 
 
 Two of the smartest men I have ever known never finished college.
 


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RE: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Pete Sharman]

Well, so here's the challenge for RMOUG training days - loosening Rachel's lips.  
Who's gonna join me in this endeavour?  :)

 
Pete
 
Controlling developers is like herding cats.
Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
 
Oh no, it's not.  It's much harder than that!
Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, 9 January 2004 1:09 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

my lips are sealed... G


--- Mogens_Nrgaard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I demand to know who the other one is!
 
 Mogens
 
 Rachel Carmichael wrote:
 
 you leave me such straight lines :)
 
 which part is qualified as an accountant?
 
 you volunteer to be the sacrificial lamb? Hm, masochist?
 
 Before Jared tries to send everyone over to my list on this topic,
 I'll
 try to bring it at least slightly back on topic.  I really don't
 care
 if someone has a degree or has completed the OCP exams. I want to
 see
 what they have done in practice, or if they are interviewing for a
 truly junior position, I want to know how they learn, what they've
 played with on their own. 
 
 Two of the smartest men I have ever known never finished college.
 


__
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OCP question from Boson practice tests

[Prem Khanna J]

Hi List, this is the question .


You are calculating the proper size for a temporary tablespace .
Which of the following are two most important factors to consider ?

A. users
B. sort_area_size
C. type of tablespace management
D. db_block_size


my choice is A  B .

but boson's choice is B  D . the explanation given by boson is :
when sizing a temporary tablespace , the formula is 
db_block_size * sort_area_size .

is it so ? do we need not take no. of users into account ?
kindly explain me .

Regards,
Prem.

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another OCP question -- help me guys

[Prem Khanna J]

Hi list , sorry to pester you with questions regarding 
boson OCP questions . i have scheduled for #1Z0-031 exam
and so desperately need help from this list . 
please bear with me  for while . look at the 2 questions below .

-
QUESTION #1 
what happens when you issue the command below .
drop tablespace testtbs including contents cascade constraints and
datafiles;

A.the tablespace will be dropped , constraints will be droppped and the
datafiles will be taken out of the o/s.

B. statement will fail 

C.you must drop constraints before issuing this command.

this is what happens when i try on 9.2.0.4 :
ERROR at line 1: ORA-02173: invalid option for DROP TABLESPACE

but boson's  choice is A.  i wonder how ???
-
QUESTION #2
you need to determine how much space has been allocated for a table.
which view would give you this information ?

A. dba_extents 
B. dba_ts_quotas 
C. dba_segments

my choice is C . 
but boson's choice is A . it says other views cannot give
the required details .

a metalink doc says that dba_segments.blocks gives the
total number of blocks  allocated to the table. 

what will be the choice that you would go for ?
-

so now i have the question whether boson is reliable ? 
how many in this list have used it ?
or am i missing something  : ((

Regards,
Prem.

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Re: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Richard Foote]

Hi Prem,

Firstly, thank you for bringing back fond memories of when I used to teach
this stuff for Oracle. If we ever meet one day, I'll show you my highlighter
penned copy of the notes showing the various errors and inaccuracies (except
the Performance Tuning course where I highlighted the correct bits ;)

Just a personal opinion (don't get me started on OCP) but if I were going
for a certification classifying me as a Professional, I would like to
display a greater air of confidence in that I know what all this stuff
actually means. I mean once you get the certificate, you'll actually be
expected to know how to tune a temp tablespace, drop a tablespace, etc,
right ... You're heading in the right direction by questioning these
questions but knowing the answers to questions is not the same as being able
to solve real-life problems which should be the mandatory skill of any
so-called certified professional. I guess I'm suggesting that before you pin
on the certification badge, you should have the skills to determine the
correct answers to these questions yourself.

Now you've gone and got me started on OCP, but hopefully you know what I
mean.

Question 1) Answer B - Statement will fail.

You actually proven this yourself and yet you still have doubts? Trust what
you *see*, not what you *read*. The cascade constraints clause if used must
go at the end of the statement.

Question 2) Answer A and C.

Again, a simple query or describe of these views would do the trick.

I think we can safely say that Boson (whatever he/she/it is) is not a very
reliable source ...

Good luck with your OCP

Richard

- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 9:24 PM


 Hi list , sorry to pester you with questions regarding
 boson OCP questions . i have scheduled for #1Z0-031 exam
 and so desperately need help from this list .
 please bear with me  for while . look at the 2 questions below .

 -
 QUESTION #1
 what happens when you issue the command below .
 drop tablespace testtbs including contents cascade constraints and
 datafiles;

 A.the tablespace will be dropped , constraints will be droppped and the
 datafiles will be taken out of the o/s.

 B. statement will fail

 C.you must drop constraints before issuing this command.

 this is what happens when i try on 9.2.0.4 :
 ERROR at line 1: ORA-02173: invalid option for DROP TABLESPACE

 but boson's  choice is A.  i wonder how ???
 -
 QUESTION #2
 you need to determine how much space has been allocated for a table.
 which view would give you this information ?

 A. dba_extents
 B. dba_ts_quotas
 C. dba_segments

 my choice is C .
 but boson's choice is A . it says other views cannot give
 the required details .

 a metalink doc says that dba_segments.blocks gives the
 total number of blocks  allocated to the table.

 what will be the choice that you would go for ?
 -

 so now i have the question whether boson is reliable ?
 how many in this list have used it ?
 or am i missing something  : ((

 Regards,
 Prem.

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 --
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-- 
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Re: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Jonathan Gennick]

Hello Prem,

The syntax the question gives for DROP TABLESPACE doesn't
look right to me. Without looking at the current docsgrin,
I believe INCLUDING CONTENTS is a valid option, and that the
others are invalid. Thus, answer B, the statement will fail,
looks correct. Whoever wrote that test question does not
appear to have tested their test.

As for question 2, until you asked, I too would have looked
in DBA_EXTENTS. But as I look at one table in my database, I
see that DBA_SEGMENTS.BLOCKS reports the same value as
DBA_EXTENTS.BLOCKS. It may be that DBA_SEGMENTS reports on
SUM(BLOCKS) for all extents in each segment. Interesting.
I'll have to read the docs on this, to find out for certain
what's going on.

One thing to be aware of with respect to question 2 below is
that in a partitioned table, each partition is a segment.
Thus, whether you go to DBA_EXTENTS or DBA_SEGMENTS, you do
need to be sure to consider all partitions of the table in
question.

Best regards,

Jonathan Gennick --- Brighten the corner where you are
http://Gennick.com * 906.387.1698 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Join the Oracle-article list and receive one
article on Oracle technologies per month by 
email. To join, visit http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/oracle-article, 
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include the word subscribe in either the subject or body.


Wednesday, January 7, 2004, 6:24:24 AM, Prem Khanna J ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
PKJ Hi list , sorry to pester you with questions regarding 
PKJ boson OCP questions . i have scheduled for #1Z0-031 exam
PKJ and so desperately need help from this list . 
PKJ please bear with me  for while . look at the 2 questions below .

PKJ -
PKJ QUESTION #1 
PKJ what happens when you issue the command below .
PKJ drop tablespace testtbs including contents cascade constraints and
PKJ datafiles;

PKJ A.the tablespace will be dropped , constraints will be droppped and the
PKJ datafiles will be taken out of the o/s.

PKJ B. statement will fail 

PKJ C.you must drop constraints before issuing this command.

PKJ this is what happens when i try on 9.2.0.4 :
PKJ ERROR at line 1: ORA-02173: invalid option for DROP TABLESPACE

PKJ but boson's  choice is A.  i wonder how ???
PKJ -
PKJ QUESTION #2
PKJ you need to determine how much space has been allocated for a table.
PKJ which view would give you this information ?

PKJ A. dba_extents 
PKJ B. dba_ts_quotas 
PKJ C. dba_segments

PKJ my choice is C . 
PKJ but boson's choice is A . it says other views cannot give
PKJ the required details .

PKJ a metalink doc says that dba_segments.blocks gives the
PKJ total number of blocks  allocated to the table. 

PKJ what will be the choice that you would go for ?
PKJ -

PKJ so now i have the question whether boson is reliable ? 
PKJ how many in this list have used it ?
PKJ or am i missing something  : ((

PKJ Regards,
PKJ Prem.

PKJ -- 
PKJ Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net

-- 
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-- 
Author: Jonathan Gennick
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Re: OCP question from Boson practice tests

[Richard Foote]

Hi again Prem,

OK, I've changed my opinion of dear Boson. At first I simply thought they
had no idea, now I suspect it's all a big joke designed to make DBAs have a
bit of a giggle on warm summer nights ...

Sizing the temp tablespace by the formula you've given is really quite
witty. Perhaps a little on the silly side but I love Monty Python so I liked
it.

The correct answer is actually none of the four listed (so I'm really
struggling to find two of the buggers).

A. Users: Not really. I could show you a DW database with only a handful of
users that requires a much larger temp tablespace than an OLTP database with
1000s of users. It not the number of users but what the users *do* that's
important.

B. Sort Area Size. Not really. Although it can influence whether a sort is
performed on temp or not, it's the size of the *sort*, not the size of the
S_A_S that's important. And not just the size of one sort, but the size of
the *max concurrent* sort activity. I guess a badly set S_A_S could result
in needing a larger temp tablespace but I doubt that's the point of the
question. And then there's hash joins, etc, ooops, the question has kinda
forgotten about non sort activity in temp

C. tablespace management. Not really although I guess those bitmaps do take
up some space ...

D. db_block_size. What the #@* ??.

Thinking about all this a bit more, if Boson's practice questions puts
people off doing OCPs, it might not be such a bad thing after all ...

Cheers ;)

Richard

- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 8:44 PM


 Hi List, this is the question .

 
 You are calculating the proper size for a temporary tablespace .
 Which of the following are two most important factors to consider ?

 A. users
 B. sort_area_size
 C. type of tablespace management
 D. db_block_size
 

 my choice is A  B .

 but boson's choice is B  D . the explanation given by boson is :
 when sizing a temporary tablespace , the formula is
 db_block_size * sort_area_size .

 is it so ? do we need not take no. of users into account ?
 kindly explain me .

 Regards,
 Prem.

 --
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 --
 Author: Prem Khanna J
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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 also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).



-- 
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-- 
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Re: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Rachel Carmichael]

Jonathan,

I successfully use drop tablespace including contents and datafiles
all the time. And a quick check of the docs shows that cascade
constraints is valid but, as Richard said, belongs at the end of the
statement.

As for the second question. DBA_SEGMENTS gives you the total allocated
blocks in a single select, without aggregation. To use DBA_EXTENTS
you'd have to use sum(blocks) in the select. From prior experience with
OCP exams, they tend to go for the simplest way to get an answer. So
DBA_SEGMENTS is the correct answer in their view, although you *can*
get the same information from DBA_EXTENTS.


--- Jonathan Gennick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello Prem,
 
 The syntax the question gives for DROP TABLESPACE doesn't
 look right to me. Without looking at the current docsgrin,
 I believe INCLUDING CONTENTS is a valid option, and that the
 others are invalid. Thus, answer B, the statement will fail,
 looks correct. Whoever wrote that test question does not
 appear to have tested their test.
 
 As for question 2, until you asked, I too would have looked
 in DBA_EXTENTS. But as I look at one table in my database, I
 see that DBA_SEGMENTS.BLOCKS reports the same value as
 DBA_EXTENTS.BLOCKS. It may be that DBA_SEGMENTS reports on
 SUM(BLOCKS) for all extents in each segment. Interesting.
 I'll have to read the docs on this, to find out for certain
 what's going on.
 
 One thing to be aware of with respect to question 2 below is
 that in a partitioned table, each partition is a segment.
 Thus, whether you go to DBA_EXTENTS or DBA_SEGMENTS, you do
 need to be sure to consider all partitions of the table in
 question.
 
 Best regards,
 
 Jonathan Gennick --- Brighten the corner where you are
 http://Gennick.com * 906.387.1698 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Join the Oracle-article list and receive one
 article on Oracle technologies per month by 
 email. To join, visit
 http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/oracle-article, 
 or send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
 include the word subscribe in either the subject or body.
 
 
 Wednesday, January 7, 2004, 6:24:24 AM, Prem Khanna J
 ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 PKJ Hi list , sorry to pester you with questions regarding 
 PKJ boson OCP questions . i have scheduled for #1Z0-031 exam
 PKJ and so desperately need help from this list . 
 PKJ please bear with me  for while . look at the 2 questions below .
 
 PKJ
 -
 PKJ QUESTION #1 
 PKJ what happens when you issue the command below .
 PKJ drop tablespace testtbs including contents cascade constraints
 and
 PKJ datafiles;
 
 PKJ A.the tablespace will be dropped , constraints will be droppped
 and the
 PKJ datafiles will be taken out of the o/s.
 
 PKJ B. statement will fail 
 
 PKJ C.you must drop constraints before issuing this command.
 
 PKJ this is what happens when i try on 9.2.0.4 :
 PKJ ERROR at line 1: ORA-02173: invalid option for DROP TABLESPACE
 
 PKJ but boson's  choice is A.  i wonder how ???
 PKJ
 -
 PKJ QUESTION #2
 PKJ you need to determine how much space has been allocated for a
 table.
 PKJ which view would give you this information ?
 
 PKJ A. dba_extents 
 PKJ B. dba_ts_quotas 
 PKJ C. dba_segments
 
 PKJ my choice is C . 
 PKJ but boson's choice is A . it says other views cannot give
 PKJ the required details .
 
 PKJ a metalink doc says that dba_segments.blocks gives the
 PKJ total number of blocks  allocated to the table. 
 
 PKJ what will be the choice that you would go for ?
 PKJ
 -
 
 PKJ so now i have the question whether boson is reliable ? 
 PKJ how many in this list have used it ?
 PKJ or am i missing something  : ((
 
 PKJ Regards,
 PKJ Prem.
 
 PKJ -- 
 PKJ Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Jonathan Gennick
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re[2]: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Jonathan Gennick]

Wednesday, January 7, 2004, 8:29:25 AM, Rachel Carmichael ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
RC I successfully use drop tablespace including contents and datafiles
RC all the time. And a quick check of the docs shows that cascade
RC constraints is valid but, as Richard said, belongs at the end of the
RC statement.

I stand corrected, though I did admit up front to not
having checked the manual. I was eating breakfast at the
time, so forgive me that one lapse.

I liked Richard's point about trusting what you see. He was
spot on with that comment, at least in this context.

Best regards,

Jonathan Gennick --- Brighten the corner where you are
http://Gennick.com * 906.387.1698 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Join the Oracle-article list and receive one
article on Oracle technologies per month by 
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or send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
include the word subscribe in either the subject or body.

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Re: Re[2]: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Rachel Carmichael]

I didn't mean to scold... you post way more information than I usually
do!

And I answer whilst eating breakfast at times too :)

Richard *is* right, the problem is, the sql statement is misformed but
the answer key says it will work. Which is yet another reason I dislike
the OCP exams.


--- Jonathan Gennick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Wednesday, January 7, 2004, 8:29:25 AM, Rachel Carmichael
 ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 RC I successfully use drop tablespace including contents and
 datafiles
 RC all the time. And a quick check of the docs shows that cascade
 RC constraints is valid but, as Richard said, belongs at the end of
 the
 RC statement.
 
 I stand corrected, though I did admit up front to not
 having checked the manual. I was eating breakfast at the
 time, so forgive me that one lapse.
 
 I liked Richard's point about trusting what you see. He was
 spot on with that comment, at least in this context.
 
 Best regards,
 
 Jonathan Gennick --- Brighten the corner where you are
 http://Gennick.com * 906.387.1698 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Join the Oracle-article list and receive one
 article on Oracle technologies per month by 
 email. To join, visit
 http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/oracle-article, 
 or send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
 include the word subscribe in either the subject or body.
 
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
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Re[1]: OCP question from Boson practice tests

[Prem Khanna J]

Hi Richard , 

Many a thanx for both of your replies . 
All my worry is :  do such questions appear in the real exams also ? 

And your reply has increased my self-confidence.
particularly the line : 
RFTrust what you *see*, not what you *read*. /RF

RFYou actually proven this yourself and yet you still have doubts? /RF
yes Richard  : (   
hope i will not repeat this as time goes and my experience grows. 
i.e., i will be more confident with my answers .

okay , coming back to the sizing of temp tablespace question . 
if suppose , such a question appears in the exam too ( my bad luck ) ,
what will be your two best answers  ?

Thanks and Regards,
Prem.
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RE: OCP question from Boson practice tests

[Goulet, Dick]

Well, you've certainly gotten a few decent replies.  I've never used Boson so 
I can't comment on their exams, I prefer going to Oracle Press.  Anyway, sizing temp 
is a combination of things many of which are black magic at best.  Number of users is 
an interesting variable to add, but not of an extreme value since it's actually the 
number of CONNECTED users that will really affect the value arrived at.  
Sort_Area_size, Maybe.  If it's large enough it may well negate the need for temp in a 
number of cases, but don't bet on it.  Type of Tablespace management?  OK, who's 
smoking what.  That's a giveaway toss out.  DB_Block_Size, again a giveaway, it has no 
real bearing since the temp tablespace will have the same size, unless you use 9i 
features, but even then a MB is a MB.

The real answer is know what your database is suppose to be doing.  If your 
setting up an OLTP database you may well get away with a very small temp space.  On 
the other hand a data warehouse or decision support system is, by design, going to 
consume mountains of temp.  Also do not forget things like index rebuilds that you 
will need to do, they do sorts and consequently consume temp in the process.  Then 
there's always that wild user who lets loose the Cartesian product from haties that 
will blow all of your calculations off the map.  

Therefore the answer in this case is E: None of the above.

Dick Goulet
Senior Oracle DBA
Oracle Certified 8i DBA

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 5:44 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi List, this is the question .


You are calculating the proper size for a temporary tablespace .
Which of the following are two most important factors to consider ?

A. users
B. sort_area_size
C. type of tablespace management
D. db_block_size


my choice is A  B .

but boson's choice is B  D . the explanation given by boson is :
when sizing a temporary tablespace , the formula is 
db_block_size * sort_area_size .

is it so ? do we need not take no. of users into account ?
kindly explain me .

Regards,
Prem.

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-- 
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Re: Re[2]: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Ryan]

A small but growing number of employers want certification. Considering the
job market, I recommend anyone who is not at Rachel's, etc.. level to get
certified as both a developer and a DBA. I'm doing Java also, just to have
it. The java test is a total joke. You only need to get 52% right and its
just one test, but people want it. You really don't even need to know java.
Just object-oriented programming and memorize a bunch of fairly useless
information.

Getting a good salary is more about your resume and how well you speak than
it is about your skill set. I've had alot of technical interviews and they
all seem to ask the same easy questions. They are interested in: years of
experience, degree, where your degree is from, certification, and in some
cases where you worked before. There is some bias in the DC area for 'top 5'
consulting. I think that means Booz Allen, and Ernst and Young. Not sure who
the other 3 happen to be.

People don't seem to be all that interested in whether you can actually do
the job. They just assume your better than someone else if you have a nicer
resume.


- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 9:34 AM


 I didn't mean to scold... you post way more information than I usually
 do!

 And I answer whilst eating breakfast at times too :)

 Richard *is* right, the problem is, the sql statement is misformed but
 the answer key says it will work. Which is yet another reason I dislike
 the OCP exams.


 --- Jonathan Gennick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Wednesday, January 7, 2004, 8:29:25 AM, Rachel Carmichael
  ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
  RC I successfully use drop tablespace including contents and
  datafiles
  RC all the time. And a quick check of the docs shows that cascade
  RC constraints is valid but, as Richard said, belongs at the end of
  the
  RC statement.
 
  I stand corrected, though I did admit up front to not
  having checked the manual. I was eating breakfast at the
  time, so forgive me that one lapse.
 
  I liked Richard's point about trusting what you see. He was
  spot on with that comment, at least in this context.
 
  Best regards,
 
  Jonathan Gennick --- Brighten the corner where you are
  http://Gennick.com * 906.387.1698 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  Join the Oracle-article list and receive one
  article on Oracle technologies per month by
  email. To join, visit
  http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/oracle-article,
  or send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
  include the word subscribe in either the subject or body.
 
  --
  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
  --
  Author: Jonathan Gennick
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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Re[3]: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Prem Khanna J]

Thanx for your reply Gennick.
..and for your word of caution about partitioned tables.

Cary , sometime back said  that :

Cary
There are always two answers to a question that your 
teacher would ask at school .
First one is the right answer.
Second one is the answer that your teacher would expect.
/Cary

The second answer is the one i mostly fail to find.

Regards,
Prem.
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RE: Re[2]: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Stefick Ronald S Contr ESC/HRIDA]

Title: RE: Re[2]: another OCP question -- help me guys





Uh No one can be at Rachel's level. She's the DBA Goddess






-Original Message-
From: Ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 8:55 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: Re[2]: another OCP question -- help me guys



A small but growing number of employers want certification. Considering the job market, I recommend anyone who is not at Rachel's, etc.. level to get certified as both a developer and a DBA. I'm doing Java also, just to have it. The java test is a total joke. You only need to get 52% right and its just one test, but people want it. You really don't even need to know java. Just object-oriented programming and memorize a bunch of fairly useless information.

Getting a good salary is more about your resume and how well you speak than it is about your skill set. I've had alot of technical interviews and they all seem to ask the same easy questions. They are interested in: years of experience, degree, where your degree is from, certification, and in some cases where you worked before. There is some bias in the DC area for 'top 5' consulting. I think that means Booz Allen, and Ernst and Young. Not sure who the other 3 happen to be.

People don't seem to be all that interested in whether you can actually do the job. They just assume your better than someone else if you have a nicer resume.


- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 9:34 AM



 I didn't mean to scold... you post way more information than I usually 
 do!

 And I answer whilst eating breakfast at times too :)

 Richard *is* right, the problem is, the sql statement is misformed but 
 the answer key says it will work. Which is yet another reason I 
 dislike the OCP exams.


 --- Jonathan Gennick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Wednesday, January 7, 2004, 8:29:25 AM, Rachel Carmichael
  ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
  RC I successfully use drop tablespace including contents and
  datafiles
  RC all the time. And a quick check of the docs shows that cascade 
  RC constraints is valid but, as Richard said, belongs at the end 
  RC of
  the
  RC statement.
 
  I stand corrected, though I did admit up front to not having checked 
  the manual. I was eating breakfast at the time, so forgive me that 
  one lapse.
 
  I liked Richard's point about trusting what you see. He was spot on 
  with that comment, at least in this context.
 
  Best regards,
 
  Jonathan Gennick --- Brighten the corner where you are 
  http://Gennick.com * 906.387.1698 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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Re[3]: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Prem Khanna J]

Ryan People don't seem to be all that interested in
Ryan whether you can actually do the job.

Ryan , i would change your first line as Some people don't seem to ...

Because some people really DO care about what one can do.

Ryan They just assume your better than someone
Ryan else if you have a nicer resume.

I agree . Because resume is the mirror which reflects an
individual until the interview happens .

Regards,
Prem.

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Re: Re[2]: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Rachel Carmichael]

Michael Abbey once said (I'm paraphrasing here) the resume and OCP get
you in the door. It's your experience that gets you the job and keeps
you there

We've had numerous discussions on this list about interview questions.
I've been on interviews where I spent an entire day (9-4) and talked to
11 different people, both non-technical questions and technical ones in
and out of my area of expertise. and this was AFTER a 90 minute phone
technical interview. I've been on interviews where there was no DBA on
site, so the  technical aspect of the interview was more an informal
consulting session (how would you handle this problem, when I could
tell it was one they were currently having)

I'm not interested in how much you've memorized. Or how well you take
standardized tests. I do ask questions that pertain to skill set and
creative thinking. 

Unfortunately these days, personnel departments do the initial
screening and they use a keyword search on college degree and OCP.
Wherever possible, I try to do the initial search and interview myself
and THEN pass a candidate along to HR. That way I can at least argue
for someone really good, even if their resume doesn't hit the keywords.

Oh yeah -- how does having a college degree in art history make a
person a better DBA? how does my degree, which is in computer science
but which is 28 years old, have anything to do with current programming
and database work?

And while we definitely need people who know a little about everything
(the primary care physician as it were) we still need experts in
specialized areas. I wouldn't necessarily urge people to study lots and
lots of things, that usually ends up meaning they do none of them well.

Okay, can you tell you poked one of my pet peeves? Off the soapbox for
now :)

my $0.02, for what it's worth (which is less and less these days!)

Rachel

--- Ryan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 A small but growing number of employers want certification.
 Considering the
 job market, I recommend anyone who is not at Rachel's, etc.. level to
 get
 certified as both a developer and a DBA. I'm doing Java also, just to
 have
 it. The java test is a total joke. You only need to get 52% right and
 its
 just one test, but people want it. You really don't even need to know
 java.
 Just object-oriented programming and memorize a bunch of fairly
 useless
 information.
 
 Getting a good salary is more about your resume and how well you
 speak than
 it is about your skill set. I've had alot of technical interviews and
 they
 all seem to ask the same easy questions. They are interested in:
 years of
 experience, degree, where your degree is from, certification, and in
 some
 cases where you worked before. There is some bias in the DC area for
 'top 5'
 consulting. I think that means Booz Allen, and Ernst and Young. Not
 sure who
 the other 3 happen to be.
 
 People don't seem to be all that interested in whether you can
 actually do
 the job. They just assume your better than someone else if you have a
 nicer
 resume.
 
 
 - Original Message -
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 9:34 AM
 
 
  I didn't mean to scold... you post way more information than I
 usually
  do!
 
  And I answer whilst eating breakfast at times too :)
 
  Richard *is* right, the problem is, the sql statement is misformed
 but
  the answer key says it will work. Which is yet another reason I
 dislike
  the OCP exams.



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Re[2]: OCP question from Boson practice tests

[Jonathan Gennick]

Wednesday, January 7, 2004, 9:39:25 AM, Prem Khanna J ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
PKJ Many a thanx for both of your replies . 
PKJ All my worry is :  do such questions appear in the real exams also ? 

I think you've hit on something key here, and that is that
practice exams may not be reflective of the real thing.

One of my secrets for taking the OCP exams is that you can
sometimes play off one question against another. Sometimes
the answer to one question is part of another question.
Consider, just by way of example:

1. Which view gives you the number of blocks in a segment?

a. DBA_SEGMENTS
b. DBA_SEG_SIZE
c. DBA_SEGMENT_SIZE
d. V$SEGMENTS

Ok, say that you don't know. Just wait for awhile, and
plan to come back that question later, because later you
might run into the following:

47. How any rows will one table have in DBA_SEGMENTS?
..

The answers to question 47 don't matter here. What's
important here is that the answer to question 47 gives away
the answer to question 1. Now these are just example
questions that I made up off the top of my head, but you get
the idea. In my own actual exam taking, I've several times
gotten clues to, or even answers to, questions that I
couldn't immediately answer by reading other questions in
the exam.

Ok. I've given away my secret. Now the whole world knows:
I'm only good at taking testsgrin.

Something else I've found valuable is a good knowledge of
Oracle's architecture. If you know how Oracle is put
together, and how the different processes work, you can
often make intelligent guesses. For example (maybe not a
perfect example):

37. You created a table and specified INITIAL 65000, yet
your initial extent is actually 65536 bytes long. Why is
that?

1. Oracle rounds up to the next power of 2.
2. The tablespace actually had 65536 bytes available, so
Oracle allocated all available space.
3. Oracle's lowest unit of space allocation is the block,
and it took 8 8KB blocks to cover the space you asked for.
4. Oracle always allocates at least enough 64KB chunks to
cover the space that you ask for.

To my neighbor, who knows nothing about Oracle, all these
answers might seem plausible. But if you understand Oracle's
architecture, including the concepts of blocks, segments,
extents, tablespaces, and so forth, that knowledge might be
just enough to help you zero in on the correct answer.

I'm not sure this last was the best example I could have
come up with, but all that aside, understanding the
architecture has helped me a great deal in eliminating
spurious answers to questions. Maybe, out of four answers to
a question I didn't know, I could only eliminate two answers
for architectural reasons, but even doing that increases my
odds from guessing from 25% to 50%.

Best regards,

Jonathan Gennick --- Brighten the corner where you are
http://Gennick.com * 906.387.1698 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Join the Oracle-article list and receive one
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RE: Re[2]: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Thater, William]

Rachel Carmichael  scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon:

 Oh yeah -- how does having a college degree in art history make a
 person a better DBA? how does my degree, which is in computer science
 but which is 28 years old, have anything to do with current
 programming and database work?

it gets you past the HR department so you actually get to talk to someone.
trust me, i know all about this one having neither a degree or an OCP.  and
having lost jobs to those art history degree holders.  [and yes i have been
asked to go back to those same places as a consultant to fix the mess.  and
no i didn't.]

--
Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA  
I'm going to work my ticket if I can... -- Gilwell song
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his
tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand
this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they
receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert
Einstein, when asked to describe radio
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Re: Re[2]: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Ryan]

degrees and ocps often do alot more than get you past the HR department.
most jobs these days are short term temp jobs. temp companies offer you
salary based mainly on your resume.

most technical interviews are a joke. I can make more money if I double my
experience level and have a computer science degree from harvard, while at
the same time halving my skillset and performance.
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 10:29 AM


 Rachel Carmichael  scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon:

  Oh yeah -- how does having a college degree in art history make a
  person a better DBA? how does my degree, which is in computer science
  but which is 28 years old, have anything to do with current
  programming and database work?

 it gets you past the HR department so you actually get to talk to someone.
 trust me, i know all about this one having neither a degree or an OCP.
and
 having lost jobs to those art history degree holders.  [and yes i have
been
 asked to go back to those same places as a consultant to fix the mess.
and
 no i didn't.]

 --
 Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA
 I'm going to work my ticket if I can... -- Gilwell song
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his
 tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand
 this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they
 receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert
 Einstein, when asked to describe radio
 --
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 --
 Author: Thater, William
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Re[2]: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Mladen Gogala]

On 01/07/2004 10:19:25 AM, Rachel Carmichael wrote:

 Oh yeah -- how does having a college degree in art history make a
 person a better DBA? how does my degree, which is in computer science
 but which is 28 years old, have anything to do with current programming
 and database work?

Believe it or not, a college degree in art history really does help in two ways.
First, people exposed to sufficient quantity of art tend to be nobler and more 
spiritual, according to the popular beliefs, then cynical mathematicians and 
computer geeks like me. Being noble and spiritual means that they don't fight 
back but do as they're told which makes them into good corporate drones. Art
history is like an army boot camp for wannabe geeks. Their appearance also tends
to be much more pleasant and polished then an appearance of a hard core computer 
geek.
Second, art history majors make perfect sacrificial lambs. An art history major in 
IT department can be blamed for anything from bad weather, corrupt backup tape to 
stupid application design. My understanding is that you've moved to the management, 
which is the move that I admire and respect. As a manager, you should know the value 
of a sacrificial lamb that can be blamed for anything. If you want to make the next
step in your career, the step from management to damagement, you'll have to learn
how to play the blame shifting game. Art history majors are priceless for that.
--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
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RE: Re[1]: OCP question from Boson practice tests

[Cary Millsap]

My question, Richard, is can a person pass the exam just by studying
what is correct? Or is it necessary to work harder to acquire some
veneer of false knowledge specifically in order to pass the exam?


Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com

Upcoming events:
- Performance Diagnosis 101: 1/27 Atlanta
- SQL Optimization 101: 2/16 Dallas
- Hotsos Symposium 2004: March 7-10 Dallas
- Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...


-Original Message-
Prem Khanna J
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 8:39 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Hi Richard , 

Many a thanx for both of your replies . 
All my worry is :  do such questions appear in the real exams also ? 

And your reply has increased my self-confidence.
particularly the line : 
RFTrust what you *see*, not what you *read*. /RF

RFYou actually proven this yourself and yet you still have doubts?
/RF
yes Richard  : (   
hope i will not repeat this as time goes and my experience grows. 
i.e., i will be more confident with my answers .

okay , coming back to the sizing of temp tablespace question . 
if suppose , such a question appears in the exam too ( my bad luck ) ,
what will be your two best answers  ?

Thanks and Regards,
Prem.
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RE: Re[2]: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Rachel Carmichael]

I do understand, and that's why I said that I tried to bring people in
first, before HR (as you know)


--- Thater, William [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Rachel Carmichael  scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon:
 
  Oh yeah -- how does having a college degree in art history make a
  person a better DBA? how does my degree, which is in computer
 science
  but which is 28 years old, have anything to do with current
  programming and database work?
 
 it gets you past the HR department so you actually get to talk to
 someone.
 trust me, i know all about this one having neither a degree or an
 OCP.  and
 having lost jobs to those art history degree holders.  [and yes i
 have been
 asked to go back to those same places as a consultant to fix the
 mess.  and
 no i didn't.]
 
 --
 Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA  
 I'm going to work my ticket if I can... -- Gilwell song
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull
 his
 tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you
 understand
 this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here,
 they
 receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. -
 Albert
 Einstein, when asked to describe radio
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Thater, William
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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 also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


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RE: Re[2]: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Thater, William]

Rachel Carmichael  scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon:

 I do understand, and that's why I said that I tried to bring people in
 first, before HR (as you know)

yup, but most places don't have a Goddess on staff.;-)  and i'm seeing the
requirement for OCP being listed in consulting postings now.  but then many
of those job requirements are generated by a company's HR and then sent out
by the consulting firms.  and less and less of them are mentioning
experience.  now there's and interesting trend, we don't care how long or
even if you've done the job, just if you have a degree or an OCP.

--
Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA  
I'm going to work my ticket if I can... -- Gilwell song
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

The point is to develop the childlike inclination for play and the childlike
desire for recognition and to guide the child over to important fields for
society. Such a school demands from the teacher that he be a kind of artist
in his province. - Albert Einstein
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Re: Re[1]: OCP question from Boson practice tests

[Ryan]

for performance tuning exam you have to know some garbage. 
- Original Message - 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 10:59 AM


 My question, Richard, is can a person pass the exam just by studying
 what is correct? Or is it necessary to work harder to acquire some
 veneer of false knowledge specifically in order to pass the exam?
 
 
 Cary Millsap
 Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
 http://www.hotsos.com
 
 Upcoming events:
 - Performance Diagnosis 101: 1/27 Atlanta
 - SQL Optimization 101: 2/16 Dallas
 - Hotsos Symposium 2004: March 7-10 Dallas
 - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...
 
 
 -Original Message-
 Prem Khanna J
 Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 8:39 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 Hi Richard , 
 
 Many a thanx for both of your replies . 
 All my worry is :  do such questions appear in the real exams also ? 
 
 And your reply has increased my self-confidence.
 particularly the line : 
 RFTrust what you *see*, not what you *read*. /RF
 
 RFYou actually proven this yourself and yet you still have doubts?
 /RF
 yes Richard  : (   
 hope i will not repeat this as time goes and my experience grows. 
 i.e., i will be more confident with my answers .
 
 okay , coming back to the sizing of temp tablespace question . 
 if suppose , such a question appears in the exam too ( my bad luck ) ,
 what will be your two best answers  ?
 
 Thanks and Regards,
 Prem.
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Prem Khanna J
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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 also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
 
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Cary Millsap
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Re: Re[1]: OCP question from Boson practice tests

[Mladen Gogala]

Misconceptions, superstitions and myths are always useful to know 
and believe in. They make people better socialized and the risk
of being burnt at stake as a heretic(metaphorically, of course) 
is much lower.

On 01/07/2004 10:59:26 AM, Cary Millsap wrote:
 Or is it necessary to work harder to acquire some
 veneer of false knowledge specifically in order to pass the exam?

--
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
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RE: Re[1]: OCP question from Boson practice tests

[Rachel Carmichael]

From past history:

I passed the 8 and 8i exams without having done any work in either
version, nor did I study for them. I used Jonathan's method of using
later questions to infer the answer to earlier ones, in part. Marlene
Theriault, an excellent DBA, took several tries to pass because she
knew the correct answers and therefore was usually wrong in the
expected answer.  :)


--- Cary Millsap [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 My question, Richard, is can a person pass the exam just by studying
 what is correct? Or is it necessary to work harder to acquire some
 veneer of false knowledge specifically in order to pass the exam?
 
 
 Cary Millsap
 Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
 http://www.hotsos.com
 
 Upcoming events:
 - Performance Diagnosis 101: 1/27 Atlanta
 - SQL Optimization 101: 2/16 Dallas
 - Hotsos Symposium 2004: March 7-10 Dallas
 - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...
 
 
 -Original Message-
 Prem Khanna J
 Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 8:39 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 Hi Richard , 
 
 Many a thanx for both of your replies . 
 All my worry is :  do such questions appear in the real exams also ? 
 
 And your reply has increased my self-confidence.
 particularly the line : 
 RFTrust what you *see*, not what you *read*. /RF
 
 RFYou actually proven this yourself and yet you still have doubts?
 /RF
 yes Richard  : (   
 hope i will not repeat this as time goes and my experience grows. 
 i.e., i will be more confident with my answers .
 
 okay , coming back to the sizing of temp tablespace question . 
 if suppose , such a question appears in the exam too ( my bad luck )
 ,
 what will be your two best answers  ?
 
 Thanks and Regards,
 Prem.
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Prem Khanna J
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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 (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
 also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
 
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Cary Millsap
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Re: Re[2]: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Rachel Carmichael]

Now I understand their use, I shall immediately go out and hire an art
history major as the deparmental sacrifical lamb (and dartboard while
we are at it)

I'm still a hands-on DBA, although I have some paperwork
responsibilities as well. Not management, other than my own work :)

Rachel

--- Mladen Gogala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 On 01/07/2004 10:19:25 AM, Rachel Carmichael wrote:
 
  Oh yeah -- how does having a college degree in art history make a
  person a better DBA? how does my degree, which is in computer
 science
  but which is 28 years old, have anything to do with current
 programming
  and database work?
 
 Believe it or not, a college degree in art history really does help
 in two ways.
 First, people exposed to sufficient quantity of art tend to be nobler
 and more 
 spiritual, according to the popular beliefs, then cynical
 mathematicians and 
 computer geeks like me. Being noble and spiritual means that they
 don't fight 
 back but do as they're told which makes them into good corporate
 drones. Art
 history is like an army boot camp for wannabe geeks. Their appearance
 also tends
 to be much more pleasant and polished then an appearance of a hard
 core computer 
 geek.
 Second, art history majors make perfect sacrificial lambs. An art
 history major in 
 IT department can be blamed for anything from bad weather, corrupt
 backup tape to 
 stupid application design. My understanding is that you've moved to
 the management, 
 which is the move that I admire and respect. As a manager, you should
 know the value 
 of a sacrificial lamb that can be blamed for anything. If you want to
 make the next
 step in your career, the step from management to damagement, you'll
 have to learn
 how to play the blame shifting game. Art history majors are priceless
 for that.
 --
 Mladen Gogala
 Oracle DBA
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Mladen Gogala
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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RE: Re[1]: OCP question from Boson practice tests

[Carel-Jan Engel]

Wasn't it you, Cary, who got tought by his parents that every question has 
two answers: The right one and the one the teacher wants to hear? And you 
had to learn them both?

That's merely what OCP is about, I think. Get a certificate to get hired, 
and get the proper knowledge to remain hired ;-)

Regards, Carel-Jan

===
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. (Derek Bok)
===
At 07:59 7-1-04 -0800, you wrote:
My question, Richard, is can a person pass the exam just by studying
what is correct? Or is it necessary to work harder to acquire some
veneer of false knowledge specifically in order to pass the exam?
Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com
Upcoming events:
- Performance Diagnosis 101: 1/27 Atlanta
- SQL Optimization 101: 2/16 Dallas
- Hotsos Symposium 2004: March 7-10 Dallas
- Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...
-Original Message-
Prem Khanna J
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 8:39 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Hi Richard ,

Many a thanx for both of your replies .
All my worry is :  do such questions appear in the real exams also ?
And your reply has increased my self-confidence.
particularly the line :
RFTrust what you *see*, not what you *read*. /RF
RFYou actually proven this yourself and yet you still have doubts?
/RF
yes Richard  : (
hope i will not repeat this as time goes and my experience grows.
i.e., i will be more confident with my answers .
okay , coming back to the sizing of temp tablespace question .
if suppose , such a question appears in the exam too ( my bad luck ) ,
what will be your two best answers  ?
Thanks and Regards,
Prem.
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Prem Khanna J
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Regards, Carel-Jan

===
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. (Derek Bok)
=== 

--
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--
Author: Carel-Jan Engel
 INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: Re[2]: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Loughmiller, Greg]

Title: RE: Re[2]: another OCP question -- help me guys





brutal, absolutely brutal...


Rachel, can ya out-source your sacrificial lamb for our use as well:-)


-Original Message-
From: Rachel Carmichael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 11:54 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: Re[2]: another OCP question -- help me guys



Now I understand their use, I shall immediately go out and hire an art
history major as the deparmental sacrifical lamb (and dartboard while
we are at it)


I'm still a hands-on DBA, although I have some paperwork
responsibilities as well. Not management, other than my own work :)


Rachel


--- Mladen Gogala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 On 01/07/2004 10:19:25 AM, Rachel Carmichael wrote:
 
  Oh yeah -- how does having a college degree in art history make a
  person a better DBA? how does my degree, which is in computer
 science
  but which is 28 years old, have anything to do with current
 programming
  and database work?
 
 Believe it or not, a college degree in art history really does help
 in two ways.
 First, people exposed to sufficient quantity of art tend to be nobler
 and more 
 spiritual, according to the popular beliefs, then cynical
 mathematicians and 
 computer geeks like me. Being noble and spiritual means that they
 don't fight 
 back but do as they're told which makes them into good corporate
 drones. Art
 history is like an army boot camp for wannabe geeks. Their appearance
 also tends
 to be much more pleasant and polished then an appearance of a hard
 core computer 
 geek.
 Second, art history majors make perfect sacrificial lambs. An art
 history major in 
 IT department can be blamed for anything from bad weather, corrupt
 backup tape to 
 stupid application design. My understanding is that you've moved to
 the management, 
 which is the move that I admire and respect. As a manager, you should
 know the value 
 of a sacrificial lamb that can be blamed for anything. If you want to
 make the next
 step in your career, the step from management to damagement, you'll
 have to learn
 how to play the blame shifting game. Art history majors are priceless
 for that.
 --
 Mladen Gogala
 Oracle DBA
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Mladen Gogala
 INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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 also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).



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 INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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RE: Re[2]: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Goulet, Dick]

Rachel,

A few years ago I was offered a job by a defense contractor in the area who 
was looking for a DBA, but more importantly a DBA with a still active clearance.  Well 
all was well in 90% of that company, except HR.  Simple answer, no degree no job.  I 
don't have the degree so they absolutely would not let the paperwork through, end of 
conversation.  So yes it does matter even when it makes no sense.  BTW: they did fill 
the job a year later with a person who had a degree in English believe it or not.  Her 
clearance was inactive  not current as well.  Guess it's better than no clearance.

Dick Goulet
Senior Oracle DBA
Oracle Certified 8i DBA

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 10:29 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Rachel Carmichael  scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon:

 Oh yeah -- how does having a college degree in art history make a
 person a better DBA? how does my degree, which is in computer science
 but which is 28 years old, have anything to do with current
 programming and database work?

it gets you past the HR department so you actually get to talk to someone.
trust me, i know all about this one having neither a degree or an OCP.  and
having lost jobs to those art history degree holders.  [and yes i have been
asked to go back to those same places as a consultant to fix the mess.  and
no i didn't.]

--
Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA  
I'm going to work my ticket if I can... -- Gilwell song
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his
tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand
this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they
receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert
Einstein, when asked to describe radio
-- 
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)

[Tanel Poder]

 What I have heard is that all the OCP questions are taken from the Oracle
 University Student Guide. After all, you wouldn't you expect the class to
 prepare you? Someone suggested that you think like a computer. Well, for
 the philosophy behind the exam, think like an organization, namely
Oracle
 University.

We'll thats exactly what I'm doing right now, studying Oracle University
instructor guides to temporarily start thinking like OU myself again - I'll
be instructing an OCP Review course next week, meant for people who want to
pass OCP. And in order to not distract the students, I won't even mention
the real life situation too much, except in really misleading cases...

Tanel.


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RE: Re[1]: OCP question from Boson practice tests

[Cary Millsap]

Yes, I was the one. I was just wondering whether the OCP performance
exam was really as bad as it used to be. I haven't seen it since
whatever the things were called back in the early 90s. From some of what
I've seen here, the answer is that yes it is the same. Not just
philosophically the same, but probably some of the same release 7
questions are still on the test.


Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com

Upcoming events:
- Performance Diagnosis 101: 1/27 Atlanta
- SQL Optimization 101: 2/16 Dallas
- Hotsos Symposium 2004: March 7-10 Dallas
- Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...


-Original Message-
Carel-Jan Engel
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 11:05 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Wasn't it you, Cary, who got tought by his parents that every question
has 
two answers: The right one and the one the teacher wants to hear? And
you 
had to learn them both?

That's merely what OCP is about, I think. Get a certificate to get
hired, 
and get the proper knowledge to remain hired ;-)


Regards, Carel-Jan

===
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. (Derek Bok)
===

At 07:59 7-1-04 -0800, you wrote:
My question, Richard, is can a person pass the exam just by studying
what is correct? Or is it necessary to work harder to acquire some
veneer of false knowledge specifically in order to pass the exam?


Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com

Upcoming events:
- Performance Diagnosis 101: 1/27 Atlanta
- SQL Optimization 101: 2/16 Dallas
- Hotsos Symposium 2004: March 7-10 Dallas
- Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...


-Original Message-
Prem Khanna J
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 8:39 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Hi Richard ,

Many a thanx for both of your replies .
All my worry is :  do such questions appear in the real exams also ?

And your reply has increased my self-confidence.
particularly the line :
RFTrust what you *see*, not what you *read*. /RF

RFYou actually proven this yourself and yet you still have doubts?
/RF
yes Richard  : (
hope i will not repeat this as time goes and my experience grows.
i.e., i will be more confident with my answers .

okay , coming back to the sizing of temp tablespace question .
if suppose , such a question appears in the exam too ( my bad luck ) ,
what will be your two best answers  ?

Thanks and Regards,
Prem.
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Prem Khanna J
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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--
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RE: Re[1]: OCP question from Boson practice tests

[Poras, Henry R.]

or from the other side: the right one, and the one pig-headed students are
convinced is right (even if you can incontrovertably demonstrate they are
wrong). Does that make three answers? or two answers with three labels?

Henry


-Original Message-
Carel-Jan Engel
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 12:05 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Wasn't it you, Cary, who got tought by his parents that every question has 
two answers: The right one and the one the teacher wants to hear? And you 
had to learn them both?

That's merely what OCP is about, I think. Get a certificate to get hired, 
and get the proper knowledge to remain hired ;-)


Regards, Carel-Jan

===
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. (Derek Bok)
===

At 07:59 7-1-04 -0800, you wrote:
My question, Richard, is can a person pass the exam just by studying
what is correct? Or is it necessary to work harder to acquire some
veneer of false knowledge specifically in order to pass the exam?


Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com

Upcoming events:
- Performance Diagnosis 101: 1/27 Atlanta
- SQL Optimization 101: 2/16 Dallas
- Hotsos Symposium 2004: March 7-10 Dallas
- Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...


-Original Message-
Prem Khanna J
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 8:39 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Hi Richard ,

Many a thanx for both of your replies .
All my worry is :  do such questions appear in the real exams also ?

And your reply has increased my self-confidence.
particularly the line :
RFTrust what you *see*, not what you *read*. /RF

RFYou actually proven this yourself and yet you still have doubts?
/RF
yes Richard  : (
hope i will not repeat this as time goes and my experience grows.
i.e., i will be more confident with my answers .

okay , coming back to the sizing of temp tablespace question .
if suppose , such a question appears in the exam too ( my bad luck ) ,
what will be your two best answers  ?

Thanks and Regards,
Prem.
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RE: Re[2]: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Poras, Henry R.]

what you lose in worth you gain in self-worth.

Henry


-Original Message-
Ryan
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 10:55 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


degrees and ocps often do alot more than get you past the HR department.
most jobs these days are short term temp jobs. temp companies offer you
salary based mainly on your resume.

most technical interviews are a joke. I can make more money if I double my
experience level and have a computer science degree from harvard, while at
the same time halving my skillset and performance.
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 10:29 AM


 Rachel Carmichael  scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon:

  Oh yeah -- how does having a college degree in art history make a
  person a better DBA? how does my degree, which is in computer science
  but which is 28 years old, have anything to do with current
  programming and database work?

 it gets you past the HR department so you actually get to talk to someone.
 trust me, i know all about this one having neither a degree or an OCP.
and
 having lost jobs to those art history degree holders.  [and yes i have
been
 asked to go back to those same places as a consultant to fix the mess.
and
 no i didn't.]

 --
 Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA
 I'm going to work my ticket if I can... -- Gilwell song
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his
 tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand
 this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they
 receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert
 Einstein, when asked to describe radio
 --
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RE: Re[2]: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Rachel Carmichael]

I know it makes no sense... but it has something to do with a (very)
antiquated class system and the difference between white-collar
workers and blue-collar workers and salary vs hourly wages

for the non-US, the term white collar worker refers to office staff,
who would wear a white shirt and tie to the office. While blue collar
refers to the people who get their hands dirty, wearing blue denim
shirts.

Always amused me that the IBM field staff had to wear white shirts and
ties while working on machinery that had grease and carbon etc all over
it.


--- Goulet, Dick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Rachel,
 
   A few years ago I was offered a job by a defense contractor in the
 area who was looking for a DBA, but more importantly a DBA with a
 still active clearance.  Well all was well in 90% of that company,
 except HR.  Simple answer, no degree no job.  I don't have the degree
 so they absolutely would not let the paperwork through, end of
 conversation.  So yes it does matter even when it makes no sense. 
 BTW: they did fill the job a year later with a person who had a
 degree in English believe it or not.  Her clearance was inactive 
 not current as well.  Guess it's better than no clearance.
 
 Dick Goulet
 Senior Oracle DBA
 Oracle Certified 8i DBA
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 10:29 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 
 Rachel Carmichael  scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon:
 
  Oh yeah -- how does having a college degree in art history make a
  person a better DBA? how does my degree, which is in computer
 science
  but which is 28 years old, have anything to do with current
  programming and database work?
 
 it gets you past the HR department so you actually get to talk to
 someone.
 trust me, i know all about this one having neither a degree or an
 OCP.  and
 having lost jobs to those art history degree holders.  [and yes i
 have been
 asked to go back to those same places as a consultant to fix the
 mess.  and
 no i didn't.]
 
 --
 Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA  
 I'm going to work my ticket if I can... -- Gilwell song
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull
 his
 tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you
 understand
 this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here,
 they
 receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. -
 Albert
 Einstein, when asked to describe radio
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Thater, William
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
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Re: another OCP question -- help me guys

[bulbultyagi]

 Hi list , sorry to pester you with questions regarding
 boson OCP questions . i have scheduled for #1Z0-031 exam
 and so desperately need help from this list .
 please bear with me  for while . look at the 2 questions below .

Don't apologize Prem, who else are you gonna call,  ghostbusters? :)



 -
 QUESTION #1
 what happens when you issue the command below .
 drop tablespace testtbs including contents cascade constraints and
 datafiles;
 but boson's  choice is A.  i wonder how ???


Statement is incorrect, cascade constraints is placed in the end.  Fine that
explains that boson is wrong.  But if you want to prepare for ocp then , you
must also consider the possibility that a novice like me was sitting at
boson preparing these questions.  So the next time you come across a
question whose answer doesn't match yours do the following in the order
specified:

1. Assume boson is right and recheck your answer. Try it out on a test
database. (make sure you get the conditions of the question correctly
implemented).  See the docs.
2. Assume boson is right and read the solution /explanation for the answer,
then tally it with your answer and solution.
3. Still not happy ? Assume boson is right and re-read the question, there
may be one word or a comma or a full stop or a bracket ,etc that is
completly changing the meaning of the question but you may skipped it when
reading the question.  (It happens a lot to me, but then I am dumb :). Now
tally your answer with boson
4. Still not happy ? (there is no pleasing you, is there? :) ok now you can
do two things:
4a.  The question and the solution given by boson are blatantly wrong
(because of a typo or because I had set the question paper ) AND YOU ARE
ABLE TO COMPLETLY REASON OUT out what is so wrong about the question and
answer, what should it have been, what if that part of the question was
changed so , etc etc, ;  then correct the question and answer and move onto
the next one.
4b The question is still blatantly wrong but you have a nagging doubt, then
ask around .  There may be some obscure formula (which works only in OCP
exams) or the answer may be the least of all the evils given .  Either which
way time to mug it up


Now keeping in mind these policies, have another look at the two questions
you have given above and below.


 -
 QUESTION #2
 you need to determine how much space has been allocated for a table.
 which view would give you this information ?

 A. dba_extents
 B. dba_ts_quotas
 C. dba_segments

 my choice is C .
 but boson's choice is A . it says other views cannot give
 the required details .

 a metalink doc says that dba_segments.blocks gives the
 total number of blocks  allocated to the table.

 what will be the choice that you would go for ?
 -

Both A and C are right.  What will really boggle your mind is deciding what
to say if you get the exact same question in the ocp exam and you have to
make a single choice.
But relax ocp exams are not as troublesome, they are much more
professionally prepared.




 so now i have the question whether boson is reliable ?
 how many in this list have used it ?
 or am i missing something  : ((

After reading my letter I hope there is at least one thing you can say :
Boson is not reliable , but it is essential.  Remember , there is a big
difference between studying and studying for an exam .  And the only way to
ace the ocp is to do many question papers like boson.
..

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Re: OCP question from Boson practice tests

[bulbultyagi]

Prem ,
OCP has nothing to do with knowledge and nothing to do with the real world.
So if you want to give OCP, forget what you know and humbly, play by its
rules.

Right now if your are serious about giving OCP exams then please
enable suspension of disbelief , don't ask why and just mug up the
following 3 (any one of them may come up in the ocp exam , though not
together) :

1.
To optimize the performance of a sort in a temprary tablespace , set the
UNIFORM SIZE to be a multiple of the parameter sort_area_size

2.
To optimize the performance of a sort in a temprary tablespace , set the
UNIFORM SIZE to be a multiple of  sort_area_size * db_block_size

3.
To optimize the performance of a sort in a temprary tablespace , set the
UNIFORM SIZE to ben * sort_area_size  +  db_block_size.


OCP has nothing to do with knowledge and nothing to do with the real world.
So if you want to give OCP, forget what you know and play by its rules.
Best of luck .



- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 16:14


 Hi List, this is the question .

 
 You are calculating the proper size for a temporary tablespace .
 Which of the following are two most important factors to consider ?

 A. users
 B. sort_area_size
 C. type of tablespace management
 D. db_block_size
 

 my choice is A  B .

 but boson's choice is B  D . the explanation given by boson is :
 when sizing a temporary tablespace , the formula is
 db_block_size * sort_area_size .

 is it so ? do we need not take no. of users into account ?
 kindly explain me .

 Regards,
 Prem.

 --
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 --
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Re: Re[1]: OCP question from Boson practice tests

[Ryan]

the pl/sql exam is really bad too. It got worse from 8i to 9i. 10% of the
exam was on DBMS_LOB and no other packages were touched? I had about 6-7
questions on parameter ordering.

Its accurate, just useless.

I thought the architecture test wasn't bad at all. The 8i backup and
recovery one was 'ok' also.
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 12:19 PM


 Yes, I was the one. I was just wondering whether the OCP performance
 exam was really as bad as it used to be. I haven't seen it since
 whatever the things were called back in the early 90s. From some of what
 I've seen here, the answer is that yes it is the same. Not just
 philosophically the same, but probably some of the same release 7
 questions are still on the test.


 Cary Millsap
 Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
 http://www.hotsos.com

 Upcoming events:
 - Performance Diagnosis 101: 1/27 Atlanta
 - SQL Optimization 101: 2/16 Dallas
 - Hotsos Symposium 2004: March 7-10 Dallas
 - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...


 -Original Message-
 Carel-Jan Engel
 Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 11:05 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 Wasn't it you, Cary, who got tought by his parents that every question
 has
 two answers: The right one and the one the teacher wants to hear? And
 you
 had to learn them both?

 That's merely what OCP is about, I think. Get a certificate to get
 hired,
 and get the proper knowledge to remain hired ;-)


 Regards, Carel-Jan

 ===
 If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. (Derek Bok)
 ===

 At 07:59 7-1-04 -0800, you wrote:
 My question, Richard, is can a person pass the exam just by studying
 what is correct? Or is it necessary to work harder to acquire some
 veneer of false knowledge specifically in order to pass the exam?
 
 
 Cary Millsap
 Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
 http://www.hotsos.com
 
 Upcoming events:
 - Performance Diagnosis 101: 1/27 Atlanta
 - SQL Optimization 101: 2/16 Dallas
 - Hotsos Symposium 2004: March 7-10 Dallas
 - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...
 
 
 -Original Message-
 Prem Khanna J
 Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 8:39 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 Hi Richard ,
 
 Many a thanx for both of your replies .
 All my worry is :  do such questions appear in the real exams also ?
 
 And your reply has increased my self-confidence.
 particularly the line :
 RFTrust what you *see*, not what you *read*. /RF
 
 RFYou actually proven this yourself and yet you still have doubts?
 /RF
 yes Richard  : (
 hope i will not repeat this as time goes and my experience grows.
 i.e., i will be more confident with my answers .
 
 okay , coming back to the sizing of temp tablespace question .
 if suppose , such a question appears in the exam too ( my bad luck ) ,
 what will be your two best answers  ?
 
 Thanks and Regards,
 Prem.
 --
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 --
 Author: Prem Khanna J
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 Regards, Carel-Jan

 ===
 If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. (Derek Bok)
 ===

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Re: Re[2]: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)

[Tanel Poder]

Btw, why do you want to take an errorstack on a behaviour-changing event?

Tanel.

- Original Message - 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 11:24 PM


 Oracle doesn't but Jonathan Lewis does, in his Tutorials.  I found out
about that
 from Scott Gosset in 8i internals class in NYC. Seems still to be true.
 Gospel of Jonathan should suffice, however. I just discovered that my
 10053 trace name errorstack forever, level 12 causes ORA-600 in 9.2. Let
me look
 for a patch and I'll come back later.  As for the question being
nontrivial and unfair,
 I agree.


 On 2004.01.06 14:29, Jonathan Gennick wrote:
  Tuesday, January 6, 2004, 1:59:26 PM, Mladen Gogala
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
  MG Nope. The answer is b). In the FIRST_ROWS mode, optimizer prefers NL
to all other
  MG methos despite the price.
 
  Does Oracle themselves *document* that what you say is the
  case? I believe you, but I'm not sure that Oracle documents
  what you just said, so short of looking at the code, I'm not
  sure how anyone could be expected to really *know* what the
  answer to the original question was, which makes me wonder
  if the question is really even a fair question to ask.
 
  Do we *know* that B is the case, or have we just always
  *observed* that it *happens to be* the case?
 
  Best regards,
 
  Jonathan Gennick --- Brighten the corner where you are
  http://Gennick.com * 906.387.1698 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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  include the word subscribe in either the subject or body.
 
 
 
 
  MG On 2004.01.06 13:44, Jay Wade wrote:
   Hello:
  
   I was looking through some OCP questions posted on the web and came
across
   the one below.
   I believe the answer is (D), because the join type would be dependent
on the
   number of rows within the table.  Is this correct or does the
OPTIMIZER_MODE
   set to FIRST_ROWS alter this behavior?
  
  
   The cost-based optimizer can choose between a nested loops join and a
sort
   merge join operation. All tables are analyzed and the OPTIMIZER_MODE
is set
   to FIRST_ROWS. Which execution plan will be the result?
  
   a. The sort-merge join.
  
   b. The nested loops join.
  
   c. This depends on some sort parameter values.
  
   d. This depends on the number of rows in each table.
  
   _
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  MG -- 
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  MG Oracle DBA
  MG -- 
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RE: Re[2]: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Niall Litchfield]

Rachel writes
 Now I understand their use, I shall immediately go out and 
 hire an art history major as the deparmental sacrifical lamb 
 (and dartboard while we are at it)

Hey I have an *economics* degree, *and* am a part-qualified accountant. I
claim that sacrificial lamb position as my own. Nothing so useful as Art in
my background, just graphs with the axes befuddled. 

Niall

P.S. I can work powerpoint too. 

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RE: Re[2]: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Rachel Carmichael]

you leave me such straight lines :)

which part is qualified as an accountant?

you volunteer to be the sacrificial lamb? Hm, masochist?

Before Jared tries to send everyone over to my list on this topic, I'll
try to bring it at least slightly back on topic.  I really don't care
if someone has a degree or has completed the OCP exams. I want to see
what they have done in practice, or if they are interviewing for a
truly junior position, I want to know how they learn, what they've
played with on their own. 

Two of the smartest men I have ever known never finished college.


--- Niall Litchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Rachel writes
  Now I understand their use, I shall immediately go out and 
  hire an art history major as the deparmental sacrifical lamb 
  (and dartboard while we are at it)
 
 Hey I have an *economics* degree, *and* am a part-qualified
 accountant. I
 claim that sacrificial lamb position as my own. Nothing so useful as
 Art in
 my background, just graphs with the axes befuddled. 
 
 Niall
 
 P.S. I can work powerpoint too. 
 
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RE: Re[1]: OCP question from Boson practice tests

[Niall Litchfield]

Hi all

I have a problem with a lot of the commentary on the OCP that I have read
here and elsewhere, especially that which focusses on specific questions and
the, ahem, 'product features' associated with them. My problem is this. To
me the OCP, or rather the OU courses and the associated revision (= what the
hell did I do 2 months ago I've got a test now) work necessary to pass the
OCP were particularly helpful in illuminating areas in which I was, now what
is the expression - ah yes, brain-dead. 

MTS and connection pooling for example, wonderful stuff, what a good idea.
Don't use it myself, don't know how it works and keep getting the acronym
confused with Microsoft Transaction Server. Oh what you mean maybe I should
at least recognize the term and the idea behind it. Oh very well then. 

My guess would be that one could pass the exam just by working with Oracle
for a couple of years and comparing that to some practice questions, one
wouldn't do especially well but 60% or so will pass you. Doing the courses,
especially if you get one of those educators who insist on knowing how the
thing actually works as well as what the course notes say will be an even
better investment. 

Of course criticism of the OCP based on the fact that it values version
specific syntax over DBA/Developer principles is right on the money IMO.

Niall 

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RE: Re[1]: OCP question from Boson practice tests

[Jared Still]

 My guess would be that one could pass the exam just by working with Oracle
 for a couple of years and comparing that to some practice questions, one

True.  I took the beta OCP tests in 1997, with about 150 questions
per test.  They were free at OOW, so it seemed like a good price.

Three years experience, no problem.  Of course, some of my answers
were probably incorrect, in accordance with my misconceptions at the
time, but they were good enough to pass the test.  ;)

Jared

On Wed, 2004-01-07 at 14:34, Niall Litchfield wrote:
 Hi all
 
 I have a problem with a lot of the commentary on the OCP that I have read
 here and elsewhere, especially that which focusses on specific questions and
 the, ahem, 'product features' associated with them. My problem is this. To
 me the OCP, or rather the OU courses and the associated revision (= what the
 hell did I do 2 months ago I've got a test now) work necessary to pass the
 OCP were particularly helpful in illuminating areas in which I was, now what
 is the expression - ah yes, brain-dead. 
 
 MTS and connection pooling for example, wonderful stuff, what a good idea.
 Don't use it myself, don't know how it works and keep getting the acronym
 confused with Microsoft Transaction Server. Oh what you mean maybe I should
 at least recognize the term and the idea behind it. Oh very well then. 
 
 My guess would be that one could pass the exam just by working with Oracle
 for a couple of years and comparing that to some practice questions, one
 wouldn't do especially well but 60% or so will pass you. Doing the courses,
 especially if you get one of those educators who insist on knowing how the
 thing actually works as well as what the course notes say will be an even
 better investment. 
 
 Of course criticism of the OCP based on the fact that it values version
 specific syntax over DBA/Developer principles is right on the money IMO.
 
 Niall 
 


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RE: another OCP question -- help me guys

[Naveen, Nahata (IE10)]

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 11:45 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: Re: another OCP question -- help me guys
 
 
 
  Hi list , sorry to pester you with questions regarding
  boson OCP questions . i have scheduled for #1Z0-031 exam
  and so desperately need help from this list .
  please bear with me  for while . look at the 2 questions below .
 
 Don't apologize Prem, who else are you gonna call,  ghostbusters? :)
 

there are lot of OCP-busters here :-)
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OCP Question (Perf Tuning)

[Jay Wade]

Hello:

I was looking through some OCP questions posted on the web and came across 
the one below.
I believe the answer is (D), because the join type would be dependent on the 
number of rows within the table.  Is this correct or does the OPTIMIZER_MODE 
set to FIRST_ROWS alter this behavior?

The cost-based optimizer can choose between a nested loops join and a sort 
merge join operation. All tables are analyzed and the OPTIMIZER_MODE is set 
to FIRST_ROWS. Which execution plan will be the result?

a. The sort-merge join.

b. The nested loops join.

c. This depends on some sort parameter values.

d. This depends on the number of rows in each table.

_
Check your PC for viruses with the FREE McAfee online computer scan.  
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Re: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)

[Ryan]

D is probably the answer, but most of the time oracle will choose nested
loop.

Beware the OCP tuning test. It is completely and totally inaccurate. I
emailed the author of the Sybex tuning book and he agreed with me. He said
he wrote the book to the test and knows its garbage.


- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 1:44 PM


 Hello:

 I was looking through some OCP questions posted on the web and came across
 the one below.
 I believe the answer is (D), because the join type would be dependent on
the
 number of rows within the table.  Is this correct or does the
OPTIMIZER_MODE
 set to FIRST_ROWS alter this behavior?


 The cost-based optimizer can choose between a nested loops join and a sort
 merge join operation. All tables are analyzed and the OPTIMIZER_MODE is
set
 to FIRST_ROWS. Which execution plan will be the result?

 a. The sort-merge join.

 b. The nested loops join.

 c. This depends on some sort parameter values.

 d. This depends on the number of rows in each table.

 _
 Check your PC for viruses with the FREE McAfee online computer scan.
 http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

 --
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 --
 Author: Jay Wade
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Re: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)

[Mladen Gogala]

Nope. The answer is b). In the FIRST_ROWS mode, optimizer prefers NL to all other
methos despite the price.

On 2004.01.06 13:44, Jay Wade wrote:
 Hello:
 
 I was looking through some OCP questions posted on the web and came across 
 the one below.
 I believe the answer is (D), because the join type would be dependent on the 
 number of rows within the table.  Is this correct or does the OPTIMIZER_MODE 
 set to FIRST_ROWS alter this behavior?
 
 
 The cost-based optimizer can choose between a nested loops join and a sort 
 merge join operation. All tables are analyzed and the OPTIMIZER_MODE is set 
 to FIRST_ROWS. Which execution plan will be the result?
 
 a. The sort-merge join.
 
 b. The nested loops join.
 
 c. This depends on some sort parameter values.
 
 d. This depends on the number of rows in each table.
 
 _
 Check your PC for viruses with the FREE McAfee online computer scan.  
 http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
 
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Jay Wade
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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-- 
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
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Re[2]: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)

[Jonathan Gennick]

Tuesday, January 6, 2004, 1:59:26 PM, Mladen Gogala ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
MG Nope. The answer is b). In the FIRST_ROWS mode, optimizer prefers NL to all other
MG methos despite the price.

Does Oracle themselves *document* that what you say is the
case? I believe you, but I'm not sure that Oracle documents
what you just said, so short of looking at the code, I'm not
sure how anyone could be expected to really *know* what the
answer to the original question was, which makes me wonder
if the question is really even a fair question to ask.

Do we *know* that B is the case, or have we just always
*observed* that it *happens to be* the case?

Best regards,

Jonathan Gennick --- Brighten the corner where you are
http://Gennick.com * 906.387.1698 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Join the Oracle-article list and receive one
article on Oracle technologies per month by 
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include the word subscribe in either the subject or body.




MG On 2004.01.06 13:44, Jay Wade wrote:
 Hello:
 
 I was looking through some OCP questions posted on the web and came across 
 the one below.
 I believe the answer is (D), because the join type would be dependent on the 
 number of rows within the table.  Is this correct or does the OPTIMIZER_MODE 
 set to FIRST_ROWS alter this behavior?
 
 
 The cost-based optimizer can choose between a nested loops join and a sort 
 merge join operation. All tables are analyzed and the OPTIMIZER_MODE is set 
 to FIRST_ROWS. Which execution plan will be the result?
 
 a. The sort-merge join.
 
 b. The nested loops join.
 
 c. This depends on some sort parameter values.
 
 d. This depends on the number of rows in each table.
 
 _
 Check your PC for viruses with the FREE McAfee online computer scan.  
 http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
 
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Jay Wade
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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 also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
 

MG -- 
MG Mladen Gogala
MG Oracle DBA
MG -- 
MG Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net

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Re: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)

[Ryan]

thought so, I'm not 100% certain the OCP will say that though. alot of
inaccuracies in that test.

btw, Ive been playing with first_rows lately. I've noticed that it has a
preference for 'INDEX FULL SCAN' over 'INDEX RANGE SCAN'. Ive found that in
some test cases where you have two tables approximately 3m and 1.5m rows in
size, that INDEX RANGE SCAN actually returns the first 25 or so records
faster, than 'INDEX FULL SCAN', there by making FIRST_ROWS, inferior.

Surprised me. I've read some docs on this and I think that a range scan is
always preferably when you only want a few rows? What am I missing?
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 1:59 PM


 Nope. The answer is b). In the FIRST_ROWS mode, optimizer prefers NL to
all other
 methos despite the price.

 On 2004.01.06 13:44, Jay Wade wrote:
  Hello:
 
  I was looking through some OCP questions posted on the web and came
across
  the one below.
  I believe the answer is (D), because the join type would be dependent on
the
  number of rows within the table.  Is this correct or does the
OPTIMIZER_MODE
  set to FIRST_ROWS alter this behavior?
 
 
  The cost-based optimizer can choose between a nested loops join and a
sort
  merge join operation. All tables are analyzed and the OPTIMIZER_MODE is
set
  to FIRST_ROWS. Which execution plan will be the result?
 
  a. The sort-merge join.
 
  b. The nested loops join.
 
  c. This depends on some sort parameter values.
 
  d. This depends on the number of rows in each table.
 
  _
  Check your PC for viruses with the FREE McAfee online computer scan.
  http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
 
  --
  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
  --
  Author: Jay Wade
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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  also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
 

 --
 Mladen Gogala
 Oracle DBA
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RE: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)

[Stephen.Lee]

Think like a computer.
Which execution plan will be the result?
result of what?
an insert statement?

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Re: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)

[Jonathan Lewis]

Note in-line.

Regards

Jonathan Lewis
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk

  The educated person is not the person
  who can answer the questions, but the
  person who can question the answers -- T. Schick Jr


One-day tutorials:
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html


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UK___November


The Co-operative Oracle Users' FAQ
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/ind_faq.html


- Original Message - 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 6:59 PM


 Nope. The answer is b). In the FIRST_ROWS mode, optimizer prefers NL to
all other
 methos despite the price.


Unless the alternative is a full tablescan on the inner
table - in which case merge or hash joins can be
considered.

The question itself is non-trivial, as the cost of
a nested loop is:
Cost of outer acquisition  +
Cost of inner access * cardinality of outer acquisition.

But the cost of a merge join is:
Cost of first acquisition + cost of first sort +
Cost of second acquisition + cost of second sort +
Cost of merge

It seems likely that if the first table returned 1 or 2 rows,
then a nested loop with FTS could be cheaper than a
sort merge, but if the outer table returned 3 Oracle would
switch to a sort merge.  (Assuming equijoin).

On the other hand, if the second table required a very
large sort, I'm sure you could engineer a sort_area_size
that would make the sort cost more than three times the
cost of a simple tablescan - which means you could change
the access path by changing the sort_area_size.


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RE: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)

[Paula_Stankus]

FIRST_ROWS would alter the behavior regardless of the number of rows.  

-Original Message-
Jay Wade
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 1:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hello:

I was looking through some OCP questions posted on the web and came across 
the one below.
I believe the answer is (D), because the join type would be dependent on the 
number of rows within the table.  Is this correct or does the OPTIMIZER_MODE 
set to FIRST_ROWS alter this behavior?


The cost-based optimizer can choose between a nested loops join and a sort 
merge join operation. All tables are analyzed and the OPTIMIZER_MODE is set 
to FIRST_ROWS. Which execution plan will be the result?

a. The sort-merge join.

b. The nested loops join.

c. This depends on some sort parameter values.

d. This depends on the number of rows in each table.

_
Check your PC for viruses with the FREE McAfee online computer scan.  
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RE: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)

[DENNIS WILLIAMS]

What I have heard is that all the OCP questions are taken from the Oracle
University Student Guide. After all, you wouldn't you expect the class to
prepare you? Someone suggested that you think like a computer. Well, for
the philosophy behind the exam, think like an organization, namely Oracle
University.
   I can't find anything nearly this detailed in the Student Guide,
therefore I conclude that this question will not appear on the exam.

Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 1:34 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


thought so, I'm not 100% certain the OCP will say that though. alot of
inaccuracies in that test.

btw, Ive been playing with first_rows lately. I've noticed that it has a
preference for 'INDEX FULL SCAN' over 'INDEX RANGE SCAN'. Ive found that in
some test cases where you have two tables approximately 3m and 1.5m rows in
size, that INDEX RANGE SCAN actually returns the first 25 or so records
faster, than 'INDEX FULL SCAN', there by making FIRST_ROWS, inferior.

Surprised me. I've read some docs on this and I think that a range scan is
always preferably when you only want a few rows? What am I missing?
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 1:59 PM


 Nope. The answer is b). In the FIRST_ROWS mode, optimizer prefers NL to
all other
 methos despite the price.

 On 2004.01.06 13:44, Jay Wade wrote:
  Hello:
 
  I was looking through some OCP questions posted on the web and came
across
  the one below.
  I believe the answer is (D), because the join type would be dependent on
the
  number of rows within the table.  Is this correct or does the
OPTIMIZER_MODE
  set to FIRST_ROWS alter this behavior?
 
 
  The cost-based optimizer can choose between a nested loops join and a
sort
  merge join operation. All tables are analyzed and the OPTIMIZER_MODE is
set
  to FIRST_ROWS. Which execution plan will be the result?
 
  a. The sort-merge join.
 
  b. The nested loops join.
 
  c. This depends on some sort parameter values.
 
  d. This depends on the number of rows in each table.
 
  _
  Check your PC for viruses with the FREE McAfee online computer scan.
  http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
 
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  --
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  also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
 

 --
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Re: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)

[Mladen Gogala]

Jonathan, you're right. Interesting thing is that bitmap indexes, which were made for
DW processing and not for OLTP will also be considered for NL context in First_Rows 
mode.
Here is the proof, which also proves that I'm a lousy typist:


SQL set autorace on explain
SP2-0158: unknown SET option autorace
SQL set autotrace on explain
SQL select /*+ first_rows ordered */ ename,dname,loc from emp e,dept d
  2  where e.deptno=d.deptno
  3  /
 
ENAME  DNAME  LOC
-- -- -
ALLEN  SALES  CHICAGO
WARD   SALES  CHICAGO
JAMES  SALES  CHICAGO
FORD   RESEARCH   DALLAS
MILLER ACCOUNTING NEW YORK
SMITH  RESEARCH   DALLAS
JONES  RESEARCH   DALLAS
MARTIN SALES  CHICAGO
BLAKE  SALES  CHICAGO
CLARK  ACCOUNTING NEW YORK
SCOTT  RESEARCH   DALLAS
 
ENAME  DNAME  LOC
-- -- -
KING   ACCOUNTING NEW YORK
TURNER SALES  CHICAGO
ADAMS  RESEARCH   DALLAS
 
14 rows selected.
 
 
Execution Plan
--
   0  SELECT STATEMENT Optimizer=HINT: FIRST_ROWS (Cost=135 Card=8
  2 Bytes=4100)
 
   10   TABLE ACCESS (BY INDEX ROWID) OF 'DEPT' (Cost=135 Card=1 B
  ytes=30)
 
   21 NESTED LOOPS (Cost=135 Card=82 Bytes=4100)
   32   TABLE ACCESS (FULL) OF 'EMP' (Cost=2 Card=82 Bytes=164
  0)
 
   42   BITMAP CONVERSION (TO ROWIDS)
   54 BITMAP INDEX (SINGLE VALUE) OF 'DEPT_DEPTNO'
 
 
 


On 2004.01.06 14:49, Jonathan Lewis wrote:
 
 Note in-line.
 
 Regards
 
 Jonathan Lewis
 http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk
 
   The educated person is not the person
   who can answer the questions, but the
   person who can question the answers -- T. Schick Jr
 
 
 One-day tutorials:
 http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html
 
 
 Three-day seminar:
 see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/seminar.html
 UK___November
 
 
 The Co-operative Oracle Users' FAQ
 http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/ind_faq.html
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 6:59 PM
 
 
  Nope. The answer is b). In the FIRST_ROWS mode, optimizer prefers NL to
 all other
  methos despite the price.
 
 
 Unless the alternative is a full tablescan on the inner
 table - in which case merge or hash joins can be
 considered.
 
 The question itself is non-trivial, as the cost of
 a nested loop is:
 Cost of outer acquisition  +
 Cost of inner access * cardinality of outer acquisition.
 
 But the cost of a merge join is:
 Cost of first acquisition + cost of first sort +
 Cost of second acquisition + cost of second sort +
 Cost of merge
 
 It seems likely that if the first table returned 1 or 2 rows,
 then a nested loop with FTS could be cheaper than a
 sort merge, but if the outer table returned 3 Oracle would
 switch to a sort merge.  (Assuming equijoin).
 
 On the other hand, if the second table required a very
 large sort, I'm sure you could engineer a sort_area_size
 that would make the sort cost more than three times the
 cost of a simple tablescan - which means you could change
 the access path by changing the sort_area_size.
 
 
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Jonathan Lewis
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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 also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
 

-- 
Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
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RE: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)

[Stephen.Lee]

What I meant is that the question cannot be answered without making human
assumptions about the question itself.  It is a little difficult (Note
little not lot) to believe that such a poorly written question would
appear on a test that costs money to take.

-Original Message-

Someone suggested that you think like a computer. Well, for
the philosophy behind the exam, think like an organization, namely Oracle
University.
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Re: Re[2]: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)

[Mladen Gogala]

Oracle doesn't but Jonathan Lewis does, in his Tutorials.  I found out about that
from Scott Gosset in 8i internals class in NYC. Seems still to be true.
Gospel of Jonathan should suffice, however. I just discovered that my
10053 trace name errorstack forever, level 12 causes ORA-600 in 9.2. Let me look
for a patch and I'll come back later.  As for the question being nontrivial and unfair,
I agree.


On 2004.01.06 14:29, Jonathan Gennick wrote:
 Tuesday, January 6, 2004, 1:59:26 PM, Mladen Gogala ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 MG Nope. The answer is b). In the FIRST_ROWS mode, optimizer prefers NL to all other
 MG methos despite the price.
 
 Does Oracle themselves *document* that what you say is the
 case? I believe you, but I'm not sure that Oracle documents
 what you just said, so short of looking at the code, I'm not
 sure how anyone could be expected to really *know* what the
 answer to the original question was, which makes me wonder
 if the question is really even a fair question to ask.
 
 Do we *know* that B is the case, or have we just always
 *observed* that it *happens to be* the case?
 
 Best regards,
 
 Jonathan Gennick --- Brighten the corner where you are
 http://Gennick.com * 906.387.1698 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Join the Oracle-article list and receive one
 article on Oracle technologies per month by 
 email. To join, visit http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/oracle-article, 
 or send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
 include the word subscribe in either the subject or body.
 
 
 
 
 MG On 2004.01.06 13:44, Jay Wade wrote:
  Hello:
  
  I was looking through some OCP questions posted on the web and came across 
  the one below.
  I believe the answer is (D), because the join type would be dependent on the 
  number of rows within the table.  Is this correct or does the OPTIMIZER_MODE 
  set to FIRST_ROWS alter this behavior?
  
  
  The cost-based optimizer can choose between a nested loops join and a sort 
  merge join operation. All tables are analyzed and the OPTIMIZER_MODE is set 
  to FIRST_ROWS. Which execution plan will be the result?
  
  a. The sort-merge join.
  
  b. The nested loops join.
  
  c. This depends on some sort parameter values.
  
  d. This depends on the number of rows in each table.
  
  _
  Check your PC for viruses with the FREE McAfee online computer scan.  
  http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
  
  -- 
  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
  -- 
  Author: Jay Wade
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
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  also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
  
 
 MG -- 
 MG Mladen Gogala
 MG Oracle DBA
 MG -- 
 MG Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Jonathan Gennick
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-- 
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Re: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)

[Jay Wade]

Thanks for the help.
Do you have any ideas to the FIRST_ROWS behavior in regards to NL?
I've been looking and found

http://download-west.oracle.com/docs/cd/B10501_01/server.920/a96533/optimops.htm#39473

it goes into detail about using hints for joins but now how the FIRST_ROWS 
forces a join selection on anything other then sample size. I'm interested 
to know more about the behavior and the links that I am finding don't seem 
to offer the depth I thought they would.  Or maybe they do and I'm missing 
the boat

From: Ryan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 11:34:26 -0800
thought so, I'm not 100% certain the OCP will say that though. alot of
inaccuracies in that test.
btw, Ive been playing with first_rows lately. I've noticed that it has a
preference for 'INDEX FULL SCAN' over 'INDEX RANGE SCAN'. Ive found that in
some test cases where you have two tables approximately 3m and 1.5m rows in
size, that INDEX RANGE SCAN actually returns the first 25 or so records
faster, than 'INDEX FULL SCAN', there by making FIRST_ROWS, inferior.
Surprised me. I've read some docs on this and I think that a range scan is
always preferably when you only want a few rows? What am I missing?
- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 1:59 PM
 Nope. The answer is b). In the FIRST_ROWS mode, optimizer prefers NL to
all other
 methos despite the price.

 On 2004.01.06 13:44, Jay Wade wrote:
  Hello:
 
  I was looking through some OCP questions posted on the web and came
across
  the one below.
  I believe the answer is (D), because the join type would be dependent 
on
the
  number of rows within the table.  Is this correct or does the
OPTIMIZER_MODE
  set to FIRST_ROWS alter this behavior?
 
 
  The cost-based optimizer can choose between a nested loops join and a
sort
  merge join operation. All tables are analyzed and the OPTIMIZER_MODE 
is
set
  to FIRST_ROWS. Which execution plan will be the result?
 
  a. The sort-merge join.
 
  b. The nested loops join.
 
  c. This depends on some sort parameter values.
 
  d. This depends on the number of rows in each table.
 
  _
  Check your PC for viruses with the FREE McAfee online computer scan.
  http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
 
  --
  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
  --
  Author: Jay Wade
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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  also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
 

 --
 Mladen Gogala
 Oracle DBA
 --
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 --
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RE: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)

[Niall Litchfield]

Jonathan noted that
  Nope. The answer is b). In the FIRST_ROWS mode, optimizer 
 prefers NL 
  to
 all other
  methos despite the price.
 
 
 Unless the alternative is a full tablescan on the inner
 table - in which case merge or hash joins can be
 considered.

For some reason hash joins were excluded from the question. I can't
speculate as to what, other than oversight or limiting the answers to 4, the
reason for this might be. 


I suspect the answer *wanted* is b) the focus being that FIRST_ROWS favours
index scans and NL joins. ISTM that d) ought to be ruled out as it refers to
rows not blocks but as usual I am probably wrong. 

Niall 

OCP DBA (the last time you'll see that sig for a while). 


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Re: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)

[Jonathan Lewis]

I see you're running on Oracle 9 there, and that
can make a big difference.  After posting my
hypothesis, I created a test case, which behaved
as I had predicted - but the behaviour changed
in Oracle 9, and I had to do some tweaking.

Turns out my test case highlighted what looks
like a but in the SORT costing in Oracle 8
for a sort/merge join.  The Oracle 9 costing
is better, so Oracle 9 didn't switch to an NL
when Oracle 8 did.

Regards

Jonathan Lewis
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk

  The educated person is not the person
  who can answer the questions, but the
  person who can question the answers -- T. Schick Jr


One-day tutorials:
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html


Three-day seminar:
see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/seminar.html
UK___November


The Co-operative Oracle Users' FAQ
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/ind_faq.html


- Original Message - 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 9:14 PM


 Jonathan, you're right. Interesting thing is that bitmap indexes, which
were made for
 DW processing and not for OLTP will also be considered for NL context in
First_Rows mode.
 Here is the proof, which also proves that I'm a lousy typist:


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
Author: Jonathan Lewis
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)

[Jonathan Lewis]

A bigger error in option (d) is that it leaves
open the ambiguity of whether the rows
should, or should not, be part of the answer
to the join.

Oracle's choice of join could be affected
by adding 100 rows to the table that
should be included in the join, but remain
unchanged if you add 100 rows that
should not be included in the join.

Frankly it's an appallingly bad question,  and
I think your assumption about the wrong answer
you are required to give is correct.

Regards

Jonathan Lewis
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk

  The educated person is not the person
  who can answer the questions, but the
  person who can question the answers -- T. Schick Jr


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- Original Message - 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 9:54 PM


 Jonathan noted that
   Nope. The answer is b). In the FIRST_ROWS mode, optimizer
  prefers NL
   to
  all other
   methos despite the price.
  
 
  Unless the alternative is a full tablescan on the inner
  table - in which case merge or hash joins can be
  considered.

 For some reason hash joins were excluded from the question. I can't
 speculate as to what, other than oversight or limiting the answers to 4,
the
 reason for this might be.


 I suspect the answer *wanted* is b) the focus being that FIRST_ROWS
favours
 index scans and NL joins. ISTM that d) ought to be ruled out as it refers
to
 rows not blocks but as usual I am probably wrong.

 Niall


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Re: Re[2]: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)

[Jay Wade]

Thanks again for all your help.
Does the ALL_ROWS hint force a preference in Join Types as well?
If so would it try to force a HASH JOIN?

From: Mladen Gogala [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Re[2]: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 13:24:25 -0800
Oracle doesn't but Jonathan Lewis does, in his Tutorials.  I found out 
about that
from Scott Gosset in 8i internals class in NYC. Seems still to be true.
Gospel of Jonathan should suffice, however. I just discovered that my
10053 trace name errorstack forever, level 12 causes ORA-600 in 9.2. Let me 
look
for a patch and I'll come back later.  As for the question being nontrivial 
and unfair,
I agree.

On 2004.01.06 14:29, Jonathan Gennick wrote:
 Tuesday, January 6, 2004, 1:59:26 PM, Mladen Gogala 
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 MG Nope. The answer is b). In the FIRST_ROWS mode, optimizer prefers NL 
to all other
 MG methos despite the price.

 Does Oracle themselves *document* that what you say is the
 case? I believe you, but I'm not sure that Oracle documents
 what you just said, so short of looking at the code, I'm not
 sure how anyone could be expected to really *know* what the
 answer to the original question was, which makes me wonder
 if the question is really even a fair question to ask.

 Do we *know* that B is the case, or have we just always
 *observed* that it *happens to be* the case?

 Best regards,

 Jonathan Gennick --- Brighten the corner where you are
 http://Gennick.com * 906.387.1698 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Join the Oracle-article list and receive one
 article on Oracle technologies per month by
 email. To join, visit 
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 or send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
 include the word subscribe in either the subject or body.




 MG On 2004.01.06 13:44, Jay Wade wrote:
  Hello:
 
  I was looking through some OCP questions posted on the web and came 
across
  the one below.
  I believe the answer is (D), because the join type would be dependent 
on the
  number of rows within the table.  Is this correct or does the 
OPTIMIZER_MODE
  set to FIRST_ROWS alter this behavior?
 
 
  The cost-based optimizer can choose between a nested loops join and a 
sort
  merge join operation. All tables are analyzed and the OPTIMIZER_MODE 
is set
  to FIRST_ROWS. Which execution plan will be the result?
 
  a. The sort-merge join.
 
  b. The nested loops join.
 
  c. This depends on some sort parameter values.
 
  d. This depends on the number of rows in each table.
 
  _
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 MG --
 MG Mladen Gogala
 MG Oracle DBA
 MG --
 MG Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net

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Re: Re[2]: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)

[Mladen Gogala]

ALL_ROWS would indeed prefer hash join and S/M  over NL.

On 2004.01.06 17:14, Jay Wade wrote:
 Thanks again for all your help.
 Does the ALL_ROWS hint force a preference in Join Types as well?
 If so would it try to force a HASH JOIN?
 
 
 From: Mladen Gogala [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Re[2]: OCP Question (Perf Tuning)
 Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 13:24:25 -0800
 
 Oracle doesn't but Jonathan Lewis does, in his Tutorials.  I found out 
 about that
 from Scott Gosset in 8i internals class in NYC. Seems still to be true.
 Gospel of Jonathan should suffice, however. I just discovered that my
 10053 trace name errorstack forever, level 12 causes ORA-600 in 9.2. Let me 
 look
 for a patch and I'll come back later.  As for the question being nontrivial 
 and unfair,
 I agree.
 
 
 On 2004.01.06 14:29, Jonathan Gennick wrote:
   Tuesday, January 6, 2004, 1:59:26 PM, Mladen Gogala 
 ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
   MG Nope. The answer is b). In the FIRST_ROWS mode, optimizer prefers NL 
 to all other
   MG methos despite the price.
  
   Does Oracle themselves *document* that what you say is the
   case? I believe you, but I'm not sure that Oracle documents
   what you just said, so short of looking at the code, I'm not
   sure how anyone could be expected to really *know* what the
   answer to the original question was, which makes me wonder
   if the question is really even a fair question to ask.
  
   Do we *know* that B is the case, or have we just always
   *observed* that it *happens to be* the case?
  
   Best regards,
  
   Jonathan Gennick --- Brighten the corner where you are
   http://Gennick.com * 906.387.1698 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
   Join the Oracle-article list and receive one
   article on Oracle technologies per month by
   email. To join, visit 
 http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/oracle-article,
   or send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
   include the word subscribe in either the subject or body.
  
  
  
  
   MG On 2004.01.06 13:44, Jay Wade wrote:
Hello:
   
I was looking through some OCP questions posted on the web and came 
 across
the one below.
I believe the answer is (D), because the join type would be dependent 
 on the
number of rows within the table.  Is this correct or does the 
 OPTIMIZER_MODE
set to FIRST_ROWS alter this behavior?
   
   
The cost-based optimizer can choose between a nested loops join and a 
 sort
merge join operation. All tables are analyzed and the OPTIMIZER_MODE 
 is set
to FIRST_ROWS. Which execution plan will be the result?
   
a. The sort-merge join.
   
b. The nested loops join.
   
c. This depends on some sort parameter values.
   
d. This depends on the number of rows in each table.
   
_
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   MG --
   MG Mladen Gogala
   MG Oracle DBA
   MG --
   MG Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
  
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RE: OCP Question

[Mercadante, Thomas F]

Jay,

I would guess B and E.  I see no reason for a redo-log switch.  Looks like a
trick question.  B is one correct answer.  The other correct is either E or
A.  I would go for E.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 11:59 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hello:

I was going through some OCP questions and wanted to make sure that my 
answers where correct.
This question comes from a 3rd party testing site, I have been checking each

question against my study guides to make sure they are correct.

I've done some testing and think that my answers might be correct but would 
like to double check as well as get anyone elses option on the answers and 
the reasoning for option E.

When the status of the tablespace moves from read-only to read write, which 
tow events occur?
(Choose Two)

A) Redo-log switch must take place
B) Normal checkpoints on the file now occur
C) Oracle automatically marks the file for backup
D) All objects in the tablespace are checked for integrity
E) The the DBWn process writes to the data files of the tablespace


I believe the answers are A, B

Reason:
A) I tested moving the a tablespace from read-only to read write and have 
noticed a log switch after moving the tablespace to a writeable state.
B) Since it is on longer Read-Only it will be updated during the checkpoint 
process
C) Doesn't happen, at least in my reading or testing
D) No verify structure is issued, or any of the other oracle tools for 
object checking are used
E) I'm alittle unsure of this one, it should update the headers how since it

is in a Read Write mode, although this should only happen at a checkpoint 
right?


Thanks in Advance,
Jay

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OCP Question

[Jay Wade]

Hello:

I was going through some OCP questions and wanted to make sure that my 
answers where correct.
This question comes from a 3rd party testing site, I have been checking each 
question against my study guides to make sure they are correct.

I've done some testing and think that my answers might be correct but would 
like to double check as well as get anyone elses option on the answers and 
the reasoning for option E.

When the status of the tablespace moves from read-only to read write, which 
tow events occur?
(Choose Two)

A) Redo-log switch must take place
B) Normal checkpoints on the file now occur
C) Oracle automatically marks the file for backup
D) All objects in the tablespace are checked for integrity
E) The the DBWn process writes to the data files of the tablespace
I believe the answers are A, B

Reason:
A) I tested moving the a tablespace from read-only to read write and have 
noticed a log switch after moving the tablespace to a writeable state.
B) Since it is on longer Read-Only it will be updated during the checkpoint 
process
C) Doesn't happen, at least in my reading or testing
D) No verify structure is issued, or any of the other oracle tools for 
object checking are used
E) I'm alittle unsure of this one, it should update the headers how since it 
is in a Read Write mode, although this should only happen at a checkpoint 
right?

Thanks in Advance,
Jay
_
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RE: 9i-OCP Question

[Ron Thomas]

I've seen some of that research many moons ago.  One of the conclusions was to always 
be in the same
state of mind when you take the test as you were in when you studied.  Now, where the 
 did I put
that bottle!

Ron Thomas
Hypercom, Inc
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Each new user of a new system uncovers a new class of bugs. -- Kernighan


   
   
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
  Com  To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  Sent by: cc: 
   
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject:  RE: 9i-OCP Question   
   
  .com 
   
   
   
   
   
  08/05/2003 08:09 
   
  AM   
   
  Please respond to
   
  ORACLE-L 
   
   
   
   
   





There is scientific research that shows that moderate consumption of alcohol
while learning and while testing improves scores.  NOW you have a good
excuse!

 -Original Message-

 In high school, I took the SAT exams and got a great score,
 enough to be
 satisfied with.  My guidance counselor insisted I gild the
 lily and take the
 exams again.  I showed up that morning with no sleep, a
 throbbing hangover,
 and eyes looking like fried eggs pasted to my head...

 ...scored 60 points better...



 on 8/4/03 11:49 AM, Stephen Lee at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
  An invaluable aid for test taking is -- I learned this when
 I took Organic
  Chemistry -- bourbon in water with ice in your favorite
 convenience drink
  cup.  Everyone at the test site is sure you have a soft drink.
 
  -Original Message-
 
  Experience with various flavors of storage technology plus a
  decade of DBA
  experience can't possibly prepare me for what I haven't read
  (i.e. Oracle's
  recommendations).  In a multiple-choice test format, unlike
  real life, I
  can't possibly argue with what Oracle has recommended...
 
  No wonder I failed my first try at the 9iOCP upgrade exam.
  Yes, I'll try
  again, once the lobotomy scars heal...
 

 --
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 --
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-- 
Please see the official

RE: 9i-OCP Question

[Gudmundur Bjarni Josepsson]

Title: Message



The silliest questions I remember seeing in an OCP exam 
were the questions in the Oracle8 Networking exam which asked about the sequence 
of dialog boxes in the Network Configuration 
Assistant!

  I took the 8i OCP upgrade exam this weekend. I was amazed at one 
  question. It was asking about the OUI andinstalling third party 
  software. Now I've been an Oracle DBA for many years, and I would have 
  thought Oracle would be more concerned about the Oracle database and the way 
  it works rather then third party software, but apparently that is an important 
  enough piece of information to Oracle Education to make it into a 45 question 
  exam.

RE: 9i-OCP Question

[Stephen Lee]

There is scientific research that shows that moderate consumption of alcohol
while learning and while testing improves scores.  NOW you have a good
excuse!

 -Original Message-
 
 In high school, I took the SAT exams and got a great score, 
 enough to be
 satisfied with.  My guidance counselor insisted I gild the 
 lily and take the
 exams again.  I showed up that morning with no sleep, a 
 throbbing hangover,
 and eyes looking like fried eggs pasted to my head...
 
 ...scored 60 points better...
 
 
 
 on 8/4/03 11:49 AM, Stephen Lee at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  
  An invaluable aid for test taking is -- I learned this when 
 I took Organic
  Chemistry -- bourbon in water with ice in your favorite 
 convenience drink
  cup.  Everyone at the test site is sure you have a soft drink.
  
  -Original Message-
  
  Experience with various flavors of storage technology plus a
  decade of DBA
  experience can't possibly prepare me for what I haven't read
  (i.e. Oracle's
  recommendations).  In a multiple-choice test format, unlike
  real life, I
  can't possibly argue with what Oracle has recommended...
  
  No wonder I failed my first try at the 9iOCP upgrade exam.
  Yes, I'll try
  again, once the lobotomy scars heal...
  
 
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Tim Gorman
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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 also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
 
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Re: 9i-OCP Question

[Tim Gorman]

Experience with various flavors of storage technology plus a decade of DBA
experience can't possibly prepare me for what I haven't read (i.e. Oracle's
recommendations).  In a multiple-choice test format, unlike real life, I
can't possibly argue with what Oracle has recommended...

No wonder I failed my first try at the 9iOCP upgrade exam.  Yes, I'll try
again, once the lobotomy scars heal...



on 7/30/03 10:19 AM, Senthil Kumar at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi all,
 
 What is the correct answer for this?
 
 Q If you have 2 redo log groups with 4 members each, how many disks does
 Oracle recommend
  to keep the redo log files?
 
 1. 8
 2. 2
 3. 1
 4. 4
 
 Which is the correct answer.
 
 TIA
 Senthil

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Re: 9i-OCP Question

[Tim Gorman]

Unless ordering superannuated storage from eBay, disks are sized at either
36Gb, 73Gb, or larger.  Dedicating these devices to online redo log files of
size 100Mb, 500Mb, or 1Gb might be tough to get past the CFO.

The CIO/CTO might well also ask why some form of RAID-1 or RAID-5 redundancy
is not recommended for use here.  What would that reality do for the answer
to this question?  Especially if RAID-5 is in use (yes, BAARF)!  Steve's
answer of 42 would be closer to the mark than any answer yet provided,
besides being celestially correct...

Also, we're talking about a single process named LGWR and another 1-2
processes named ARCn.  Isn't it possible that these storage devices can
handle occasional concurrency of 2-3 without degrading performance?  Yup,
the answer is it depends, not A, or B, or C

Whatever Oracle's recommendation is for this question, it is certainly a
tad on the simplistic side and useless in real life.  The discussion is
certainly worthwhile, but as a multiple-choice question with only one answer
it is worthless.  The OCP exam does not deal in reasoning and discussion...




on 7/30/03 12:34 PM, Igor Neyman at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Well, in archivelog mode LogWriter may use one group and Archiver may
 use the other group, so I'd agree with Kirti.
 
 Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 Mladen Gogala
 Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 12:59 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 There are two reasons:
 1) Redo log groups are never used simultaneously, so they can reside on
   the same disk. Log members should not be on the same disks for
 increased
   survivability. That gives us 2 groups with 4 members, each two
 members
   sharing the same device - 4 disks alltogether.
 2) It's because I say so and I'm an 8i OCP.
 
 
 On 2003.07.30 13:44, KENNETH JANUSZ wrote:
 Why?  What is the logic?
 
 Ken Janusz, CPIM
 
 - Original Message -
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 12:29 PM
 
 
 The answer is 4. Of course, no one in the right mind would have
 2 groups with 4 members each.
 
 On 2003.07.30 13:19, Senthil Kumar wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 What is the correct answer for this?
 
 Q If you have 2 redo log groups with 4 members each, how many
 disks
 does
 Oracle recommend
to keep the redo log files?
 
 1. 8
 2. 2
 3. 1
 4. 4
 
 Which is the correct answer.
 
 TIA
 Senthil
 
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RE: 9i-OCP Question

[Stephen Lee]

An invaluable aid for test taking is -- I learned this when I took Organic
Chemistry -- bourbon in water with ice in your favorite convenience drink
cup.  Everyone at the test site is sure you have a soft drink.

 -Original Message-
 
 Experience with various flavors of storage technology plus a 
 decade of DBA
 experience can't possibly prepare me for what I haven't read 
 (i.e. Oracle's
 recommendations).  In a multiple-choice test format, unlike 
 real life, I
 can't possibly argue with what Oracle has recommended...
 
 No wonder I failed my first try at the 9iOCP upgrade exam.  
 Yes, I'll try
 again, once the lobotomy scars heal...
 
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Re: 9i-OCP Question

[M.Godlewski]

I took the 8i OCP upgrade exam this weekend. I was amazed at one question. It was asking about the OUI andinstalling third party software. Now I've been an Oracle DBA for many years, and I would have thought Oracle would be more concerned about the Oracle database and the way it works rather then third party software, but apparently that is an important enough piece of information to Oracle Education to make it into a 45 question exam.Tim Gorman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Experience with various flavors of storage technology plus a decade of DBAexperience can't possibly prepare me for what I haven't read (i.e. "Oracle'srecommendations"). In a multiple-choice test format, unlike real life, Ican't possibly argue with what Oracle has recommended...No wonder I failed my first try at the 9iOCP upgrade exam. Yes, I'll tryagain, once the lobotomy scars heal...on 7/30/03 10:19 AM, Senthil Kumar at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all,  What is the correct answer for this?  Q If you have 2 redo log groups with 4 members each, how many disks does Oracle recommend to keep the redo log files?  1. 8 2. 2 3. 1 4. 4  Which is the correct answer.  TIA Senthil-- Please
 see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: Tim GormanINET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
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RE: 9i-OCP Question

[Eberhard, Jeff]

Perhaps it is a question which doesn't get scored (hopefully).  I'm not sure
if all the tests are like this but I took the 9i upgrade exam last week.  It
had 60 questions but only scores on 53 of them (it tosses out 7).
Unfortunately you don't know which questions will be scored or not.
 
--Jeff
 
 

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 1:20 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I took the 8i OCP upgrade exam this weekend. I was amazed at one question.
It was asking about the OUI and installing third party software.  Now I've
been an Oracle DBA for many years, and I would have thought Oracle would be
more concerned about the Oracle database and the way it works rather then
third party software, but apparently that is an important enough piece of
information to Oracle Education to make it into a 45 question exam.

Tim Gorman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

Experience with various flavors of storage technology plus a decade of DBA
experience can't possibly prepare me for what I haven't read (i.e. Oracle's
recommendations). In a multiple-choice test format, unlike real life, I
can't possibly argue with what Oracle has recommended...

No wonder I failed my first try at the 9iOCP upgrade exam. Yes, I'll try
again, once the lobotomy scars heal...



on 7/30/03 10:19 AM, Senthil Kumar at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi all,
 
 What is the correct answer for this?
 
 Q If you have 2 redo log groups with 4 members each, how many disks does
 Oracle recommend
 to keep the redo log files?
 
 1. 8
 2. 2
 3. 1
 4. 4
 
 Which is the correct answer.
 
 TIA
 Senthil

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Re: 9i-OCP Question

[Tim Gorman]

In high school, I took the SAT exams and got a great score, enough to be
satisfied with.  My guidance counselor insisted I gild the lily and take the
exams again.  I showed up that morning with no sleep, a throbbing hangover,
and eyes looking like fried eggs pasted to my head...

...scored 60 points better...



on 8/4/03 11:49 AM, Stephen Lee at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 An invaluable aid for test taking is -- I learned this when I took Organic
 Chemistry -- bourbon in water with ice in your favorite convenience drink
 cup.  Everyone at the test site is sure you have a soft drink.
 
 -Original Message-
 
 Experience with various flavors of storage technology plus a
 decade of DBA
 experience can't possibly prepare me for what I haven't read
 (i.e. Oracle's
 recommendations).  In a multiple-choice test format, unlike
 real life, I
 can't possibly argue with what Oracle has recommended...
 
 No wonder I failed my first try at the 9iOCP upgrade exam.
 Yes, I'll try
 again, once the lobotomy scars heal...
 

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
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Re: 9i-OCP Question

[Jonathan Gennick]

Wednesday, July 30, 2003, 1:19:31 PM, you wrote:
Q If you have 2 redo log groups with 4 members each, how many disks does
SK Oracle recommend
SKto keep the redo log files?

My first thought was 8, and I think you might be able to
make a case for 8. However, you should have at least 4,
because the whole reason for multiple members is have copies
on separate disks, so the maximum number of members in a
group ends up being the minimum number of disks, otherwise
you should reduce the number of members.

Does Oracle truly even make a recommendation with respect to
this question? Jacques Kilchoer came up with this quote from
the manuals:

When setting up a multiplexed online redo log, place
members of a group on different disks.

However, this quote does not speak to the total number of
disks. It says put each member of a group on a different
disk. Ok, fine, but either 4 or 8 disks will meet that
recommendation equally well.

It occurs to me though, that the question approaches the
issue all backwards. The implication is that you:

first decide how many members you have

secondly decide how many disks to spread those members
across

But who thinks like that that? I've always approached things
this way:

first I decided how many redundant copies I want of each
log file

then I create that many members, each on a separate
drive

My point here is that in real life, I don't think I'd ever
be asking myself the question Senthil posted from that
practice exam.

Best regards,

Jonathan Gennick --- Brighten the corner where you are
http://Gennick.com * 906.387.1698 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: 9i-OCP Question

[Boivin, Patrice J]

We use a SAN.

Where does that leave me?

: )

Patrice.

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 7:10 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I'm constantly amazed (and relieved!) that there's disagreement on the
most fundamental principles.

First, I found myself nodding at Roy's first post.  On some databases,
I have three log groups, with two members each.  Each set of members
has its own disk.  I'll concede the argument that the instance goes
down right away if one of the drives fails, but I _still_ have a full
set of logs on the other drive, and that's a good thing, right?

Second, if I have three groups of two members each and follow what
seems to be the consensus opinion, I have three drives, each holding
two members, one from each group.  In this case, aren't the two members
on the same drive identical?  If I lose that drive, I lose that entire
log group, and therefore no longer have a full set of logs--so what's
the point of having two copies?  I also lose the instance immediately
if that group happens to be the current group at the time of disk
failure.

Third, while I agree that every member of every group should ideally
have its own disk, does ANYONE actually configure their DB this way?  I
had a hard enough time dedicating one or two disks to redo logs; who
can dedicate eight, especially given drive sizes of 72+ GB and (single)
log file sizes of, what, 100 MB?




--- Pardee, Roy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Yep, that's right--I had it wrong.  You need to have at least one
 member from each group in order to do a full recovery.  I see now
 from my trusty dba fundamentals I class text that each member of a
 group is identical (or is supposed to be).
 
 So I guess I'll go back to being confused about why the answer to the
 question below is 2.  I guess 2 is the minimum required to survive a
 single disk failure?
 
 Cheers,
 
 -Roy
 
 Roy Pardee
 Programmer/Analyst/DBA
 SWFPAC Lockheed Martin IT
 Extension 8487


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RE: 9i-OCP Question

[Boivin, Patrice J]

I am wondering... where do these questions come from?

There is a disclosure agreement at the beginning of each Oracle exam...

Patrice.
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RE: 9i-OCP Question

[Senthil Kumar]

Hi

This ques from a model examnothing to worry about disclosure and
all!!!

-Original Message-
Boivin, Patrice J
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 6:24 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I am wondering... where do these questions come from?

There is a disclosure agreement at the beginning of each Oracle exam...

Patrice.
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RE: 9i-OCP Question

[April Wells]

Title: RE: 9i-OCP Question





didn't you say it was a question/answer out of the book?


April Wells
Oracle DBA/Oracle Apps DBA
Corporate Systems
Amarillo Texas


Few people really enjoy the simple pleasure of flying a kite
Adam Wells age 11




-Original Message-
From: Senthil Kumar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 8:44 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: 9i-OCP Question



Hi


This ques from a model examnothing to worry about disclosure and
all!!!


-Original Message-
Boivin, Patrice J
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 6:24 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



I am wondering... where do these questions come from?


There is a disclosure agreement at the beginning of each Oracle exam...


Patrice.
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RE: 9i-OCP Question

[Jared Still]

Our Prod SAP system has 4 RAID1's dedicated to redo of 500m each
on an Clariion CX600 SAN.

Several groups with 2 members each.  That's 600 gig
of physical disk dedicated to redo, and nothing else.

Jared


On Thu, 2003-07-31 at 04:59, Boivin, Patrice J wrote:
 We use a SAN.
 
 Where does that leave me?
 
 : )
 
 Patrice.
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 7:10 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 
 I'm constantly amazed (and relieved!) that there's disagreement on the
 most fundamental principles.
 
 First, I found myself nodding at Roy's first post.  On some databases,
 I have three log groups, with two members each.  Each set of members
 has its own disk.  I'll concede the argument that the instance goes
 down right away if one of the drives fails, but I _still_ have a full
 set of logs on the other drive, and that's a good thing, right?
 
 Second, if I have three groups of two members each and follow what
 seems to be the consensus opinion, I have three drives, each holding
 two members, one from each group.  In this case, aren't the two members
 on the same drive identical?  If I lose that drive, I lose that entire
 log group, and therefore no longer have a full set of logs--so what's
 the point of having two copies?  I also lose the instance immediately
 if that group happens to be the current group at the time of disk
 failure.
 
 Third, while I agree that every member of every group should ideally
 have its own disk, does ANYONE actually configure their DB this way?  I
 had a hard enough time dedicating one or two disks to redo logs; who
 can dedicate eight, especially given drive sizes of 72+ GB and (single)
 log file sizes of, what, 100 MB?
 
 
 
 
 --- Pardee, Roy E [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Yep, that's right--I had it wrong.  You need to have at least one
  member from each group in order to do a full recovery.  I see now
  from my trusty dba fundamentals I class text that each member of a
  group is identical (or is supposed to be).
  
  So I guess I'll go back to being confused about why the answer to the
  question below is 2.  I guess 2 is the minimum required to survive a
  single disk failure?
  
  Cheers,
  
  -Roy
  
  Roy Pardee
  Programmer/Analyst/DBA
  SWFPAC Lockheed Martin IT
  Extension 8487
 
 
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RE: 9i-OCP Question

[Jacques Kilchoer]

Except that:
1) five disks was not one of the possible answers, and
2) we don't know that the database is in archivelog mode.
For the 9i OCP examination the correct answer is answer number 4 (4 disks). I'm 
willing to bet on it!

 -Original Message-
 From: Ron Yount [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Well Who knows what the author of the question intended, 
 but in the
 example of 2 (duplexed) redo log groups with archiving, they 
 speak of five
 disks.  One of EACH log member (not shared with log members of another
 group) and one for the archive log destination.
 
 That being said, I believe the answer to the question is A: 8
 
 -Original Message-
 Jacques Kilchoer
 Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:19 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Senthil Kumar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  What is the correct answer for this?
  
  Q If you have 2 redo log groups with 4 members each, how
  many disks does
  Oracle recommend
 to keep the redo log files?
  
  1. 8
  2. 2
  3. 1
  4. 4
 
 The question specifically says how many disks does Oracle 
 recommend...? It
 seems to me that the correct answer is answer number 4, 
 Oracle recommends 4
 disks. (Quote: When setting up a multiplexed online redo 
 log, place members
 of a group on different disks. If a single disk fails, then 
 ONLY ONE MEMBER
 of a group becomes unavailable... - capitalization mine) Therefore 4
 members - 4 disks.
 
 Here is a link to a relevant section from an Oracle manual.
 
 Oracle9i Database Administrator's Guide, Release 2 (9.2), Part Number
 A96521-01 
 Chapter 7 - Managing the Online Redo Log: Placing Online Redo 
 Log Members on
 Different Disks 
 
 http://download-west.oracle.com/docs/cd/B10501_01/server.920/a
 96521/onlinere
 do.htm#5414
 
 Placing Online Redo Log Members on Different Disks
 When setting up a multiplexed online redo log, place members 
 of a group on
 different disks. If a single disk fails, then only one member 
 of a group
 becomes unavailable to LGWR and other members remain 
 accessible to LGWR, so
 the instance can continue to function.
 
 If you archive the redo log, spread online redo log members 
 across disks to
 eliminate contention between the LGWR and ARCn background 
 processes. For
 example, if you have two groups of duplexed online redo log 
 members, place
 each member on a different disk and set your archiving 
 destination to a
 fifth disk. Consequently, there is never contention between 
 LGWR (writing to
 the members) and ARCn (reading the members).
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9i-OCP Question

[Senthil Kumar]

Hi all,

What is the correct answer for this?

Q If you have 2 redo log groups with 4 members each, how many disks does
Oracle recommend
   to keep the redo log files?

1. 8
2. 2
3. 1
4. 4

Which is the correct answer.

TIA
Senthil

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Re: 9i-OCP Question

[Mladen Gogala]

The answer is 4. Of course, no one in the right mind would have
2 groups with 4 members each.
On 2003.07.30 13:19, Senthil Kumar wrote:
Hi all,

What is the correct answer for this?

Q If you have 2 redo log groups with 4 members each, how many disks does
Oracle recommend
   to keep the redo log files?
1. 8
2. 2
3. 1
4. 4
Which is the correct answer.

TIA
Senthil
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Re: 9i-OCP Question

[Kirtikumar Deshpande]

I will guess -- 1. 


- Kirti



--- Senthil Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 What is the correct answer for this?
 
 Q If you have 2 redo log groups with 4 members each, how many disks does
 Oracle recommend
to keep the redo log files?
 
 1. 8
 2. 2
 3. 1
 4. 4
 
 Which is the correct answer.
 
 TIA
 Senthil
 
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Senthil Kumar
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Re: 9i-OCP Question

[KENNETH JANUSZ]

Why?  What is the logic?

Ken Janusz, CPIM

- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 12:29 PM


 The answer is 4. Of course, no one in the right mind would have
 2 groups with 4 members each.

 On 2003.07.30 13:19, Senthil Kumar wrote:
  Hi all,
 
  What is the correct answer for this?
 
  Q If you have 2 redo log groups with 4 members each, how many disks
does
  Oracle recommend
 to keep the redo log files?
 
  1. 8
  2. 2
  3. 1
  4. 4
 
  Which is the correct answer.
 
  TIA
  Senthil
 
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  also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
 

 --
 Mladen Gogala
 Oracle DBA
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Re: 9i-OCP Question

[rgaffuri]

according to the 8i osborne ocp book, the answer is 2. 
 
 From: Senthil Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/07/30 Wed PM 01:19:31 EDT
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: 9i-OCP Question
 
 Hi all,
 
 What is the correct answer for this?
 
 Q If you have 2 redo log groups with 4 members each, how many disks does
 Oracle recommend
to keep the redo log files?
 
 1. 8
 2. 2
 3. 1
 4. 4
 
 Which is the correct answer.
 
 TIA
 Senthil
 
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Senthil Kumar
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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Re: 9i-OCP Question

[Mladen Gogala]

So, what do you need us for?



On 2003.07.30 13:29, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
according to the 8i osborne ocp book, the answer is 2.

 From: Senthil Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/07/30 Wed PM 01:19:31 EDT
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: 9i-OCP Question

 Hi all,

 What is the correct answer for this?

 Q If you have 2 redo log groups with 4 members each, how many disks does
 Oracle recommend
to keep the redo log files?

 1. 8
 2. 2
 3. 1
 4. 4

 Which is the correct answer.

 TIA
 Senthil

 --
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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 Author: Senthil Kumar
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Re: 9i-OCP Question

[AK]

Answe is 4 disks . to keep each member on different disks . 

-ak



- Original Message - 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 10:19 AM


 Hi all,
 
 What is the correct answer for this?
 
 Q If you have 2 redo log groups with 4 members each, how many disks does
 Oracle recommend
to keep the redo log files?
 
 1. 8
 2. 2
 3. 1
 4. 4
 
 Which is the correct answer.
 
 TIA
 Senthil
 
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Senthil Kumar
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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