Re: [Origami] Permission question

[Tiongboon Pek]

Ilan Garibi said among other things ...

"law, as well as customs that spread in a community should make sense, and
be of use. "

One other issue that should be factored in is practicality.  Two points
have been raised in the recent discussions: one is respecting the creator's
efforts, and the other (not loudly mentioned) is financial.  The first
issue can be addressed by making sure that the model is correctly
attributed to the creator.  I am often at a loss how to reach the creator,
so a simpler and more practical approach would facilitate sharing of
origami.  As regards payment, again I would advocate a more practical
approach.  If I am folding someone's work for an advertising campaign, then
I should ask for permission and pay the creator.  But if I am receiving a
few tens or even hundreds of dollars, tracking down and paying the creator
her share is quite daunting.

As a practical measure, I suggest that creators who want permission to be
sought include in their books how they can be contacted.  This would avoid
the need for people to write to the Origami list for information on how to
contact a certain creator, as we see every now and then.

Tiong Boon

[Origami] Getting Permission to Teach a Model

[Michila Caldera]

RE the need to get permission from the designer to teach a published model
in an informal (you are not being paid, no one is paying to to be taught by
you) forum whether to one person or many; I think this is the forum in
which most origami teaching is done.

My rule has long been to teach anything I like in such a forum without
seeking permission. I always give (sometimes in writing) the name of the
designer if I know it, the title and author of the book if it came from a
book, the name or URL of the website if it came from a known legitimate
site and who is the site-owner if known. I can't think, at the moment
anyway, of any instance where I taught a model to anyone without knowing
where it came from and telling them that information, even it was just
"so-and-so taught this to me at the Sept club meeting, I don't know whose
model it is" or "I found this on a table at the last club meeting and
reverse-engineered it, I don't know whose model it is". In other words I
think it is *very* important to give credit to designers and publishers,
always, and strive to do so, always. Maybe they don't get paid for the
sharing, but their name is mentioned, or at least the idea of there being
"a designer", and advertising is accomplished. I do consider that if a
model diagram has been published legitimately with the designer identified,
that the designer is OK with people learning, folding, and even sharing the
model with others, as long as it isn't done to steal from the designer in
some way. If you really don't want anyone to fold your model without you
getting paid in some way, why allow it to be published in a book or on a
publicly-available website? It could end up in a public library, or for
sale at a garage sale for 50 cents. (I know this view isn't technically
correct, but it's reality, follow the Golden Rule and we'll all be better
off.)

I also consider that it is good advertising to teach a model from a book or
website, and give the information so the folders could look up the
information if they wish, or buy the book. I don't think it would be right
to teach every model in a book, nor do I make copies of diagrams from a
book or website without asking permission, in general.

I confess to occasionally making a copy from a book, when asked by a
friend, and I have been known to make my own diagram or Step Photo diagram
for a model for which I only know of a video or I only know of it from
being taught by someone in person. This is for my own use, but I have on a
few occasions shared such constructions with a friend, always making sure
to write on the diagram who I learned it from, when, and the fact that I
don't know the designer and don't own the copyright. I would not make a
bunch of copies for a class or club meeting (unless I had permission to do
so). I always tell them to look it up, or they can make their own Step
Photos while we fold (very few people do this BTW).

Finally, there are so many nice Traditional models out there, and since
they tend to be on the easier end of the spectrum, they are ideal for most
public teaching, which is usually done for the benefit of non-folders. Why
not use them for such forums? I find that people are usually delighted to
be re-acquainted with a model learned in childhood, or to finally learn a
model they've long heard of or seen pictures of. Kids who know the model
often want to teach it themselves and unless there are time contraints, I'm
happy to let them do that. This is also a good time to make a comment on
the idea of Traditional models vs models designed by known designers, and
models published and copyrighted.

[Origami] How do you calculate your fee to do a demonstration?

[Michael Shannon]

I've been asked to do a live origami demonstration during an event that
will last approx 2 hours.

I plan on doing an array of either traditional models and my own simpler
designs.

My question is: How do you calculate how much you would charge for this
type of scenario?

I'm not asking people to give me their fees but rather some idea of how to
come up with a number.

I am thinking about the time involved in travel, setting up as well as the
cost of any special paper I may want to use.

I am a web developer by trade and charge by the hour but in this case, with
the aspect of artistry added in I am not sure what is an acceptable rate. I
am in the U.S. if that matters.

Any info you can provide would be appreciated.

Thank you,

-mshannon

Re: [Origami] Permission question (Dick and Serena LaVine)

[leslie cefali]

> On Sep 11, 2017, at 9:45 AM, Galen Pickett  wrote:
> 
> And, FYI, the authors release their copyrights to the publishers as a
> condition of publication..

This depends on the publisher and the contract between author and publisher.
I was able to keep copyrights to a book I wrote several years ago after 
negotiating with the publisher. Sometimes the copyright doesn't go to author 
right away, but after a couple years or after it does out of print...or 
sometimes they do get to keep it upon publication.

It all depends on how it is worked out.  

Re: [Origami] Permission question (Dick and Serena LaVine)

[Galen Pickett]

...below quote as per list rules.

With best wishes,

Galen T. Pickett

https://www.etsy.com/shop/GeometricOrigami


Now, time for a little rant.  I routinely use data and whole papers from my
colleagues while teaching genetics and developmental biology.  On the few
occasions when I’ve informed my colleagues that I was using their work in a
classroom setting, they’ve been utterly delighted that their work was
worthy of being spread in such a fashion. None would have dreamed of having
their permission sought for such a purpose.

Now the work I’m talking about isn’t the exertions of one person for a
day.  We’re talking about years of highly trained and creative professional
efforts.  Why Origami is so special is truly beyond me.


I agree with you ... But it is no use telling someone that they should give
up their intellectual property rights.  Some will gladly do so, others will
definitely not.  It is entirely the option of the creator ... not the
consumer.

The reality is that most (not all) origami diagrams, finished models, and
even designs are essentially worthless.  The same is true for published
scientific manuscripts (the modal number if citations of a paper is 0).

(And, FYI, the authors release their copyrights to the publishers as a
condition of publication... You need permission from Wiley, e.g., and they
will give you the right to more than "fair use", if you pay a license fee
of several $1000s).

Best,

Galen Pickett

Re: [Origami] Permission question (Dick and Serena LaVine)

[Weinstein, Michael]

Dick and Serena LaVine done said:

"Aside from any legal or copyright issues (covered extensively on the
OrigamiUSA website), I believe it's important to show respect for the
creators’ artistry and hard work.”

It might not have occurred to anyone, but there is significant work spent in 
preparing an Origami model for presentation in a public forum.  If that isn’t a 
demonstration of respect, I don’t know what is.  If I charged my usual 
consulting fees for my own preparations I’d be quite wealthy.

Now, time for a little rant.  I routinely use data and whole papers from my 
colleagues while teaching genetics and developmental biology.  On the few 
occasions when I’ve informed my colleagues that I was using their work in a 
classroom setting, they’ve been utterly delighted that their work was worthy of 
being spread in such a fashion. None would have dreamed of having their 
permission sought for such a purpose.

Now the work I’m talking about isn’t the exertions of one person for a day.  
We’re talking about years of highly trained and creative professional efforts.  
Why Origami is so special is truly beyond me.