RE: ms access Orion?
I am sure, at one point in time, the same was true with Apache. But now that the kid has grown up, look where it is today. Which is why I make a big distinction between a plain open source, and a mature open source. Things like Apache, Linux, Mysql, and Postgresql are mature open source -- partly due to the fact that they been around for a number of years. Projects like Orion, Resin, Jboss, Tomcat, Enhydra, Openejb, and Jonas have the potential to become mature open source (yes, Orion is not open - piety), some more then others (like Jboss, Tomcat, and Openejb) and they probably will be. People ask, for example -- should they run Jboss in a production environment. The answer depends on how big is the user load in the production environment. Jboss doesn't currently support either horizontal or vertical clustering, and they have plans this year to implement vertical clustering. If the project continues to mature, there may be future plans to add horizontal clustering. A ! ! ! user from this list mentioned Gemstone's ability to work among many distributed VM's. So I am sure, for example, that some environments have no problem running an RDMS like Oracle for large projects and an RDMS like Mysql or Postgresql for small projects. -Original Message- From: Tim Endres [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:48 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: ms access Orion? However, MySQL support has not always been that "first class". I can remember the days when MySQL support was much like Orion support today - you needed the mailing list! Lets hope that Orion can make the same transition to providing strong support. tim. If you use mysql, I think you need to compile the Berkeley engine first to get transaction support. Please query MySQL on this, if you need to use transactions. Their support and documentation is first class (are you taking notes here Orion? There is a quiz next week). -Original Message- From: faisal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 5:06 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: ms access Orion? Thank to all of u guys I have not been using BMP before and when i tried ms access it gave me a hard time though i works sometimes Thanks to your advice I am going to try MySQl for the moment Respect what a Great e-mailing list faisal - Original Message - From: Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Pridham To: Orion-Interest mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 7:01 PM Subject: RE: ms access Orion? Two other free RDMS's are: 1. Interbase (http:// www.interbase.com http://www.interbase.com ) - originally developed by Borland, now open source. I am using this product in a commercial environment. It is a bit unstable on Linux, but runs great on Win2000. This DB has a JDBC client. This is a cross platform DB. 2. SAP DB ( http://www.sap.com/solutions/technology/sapdb/ http://www.sap.com/solutions/technology/sapdb/ ) - open sourced by SAP. I have not worked with this DB yet, but I will soon. This DB also has a type 4 JDBC driver. This is a cross-platform DB. Both of these databases "appear" to be industrial strength :) -Original Message- From: Kemp Randy-W18971 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 10:32 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: ms access Orion? Is ms access considered an RDMS and does it have a JDBC driver? If so, then it should be theoretically possible to have it work with Orion. But why would you want to do this? A better solution would be to work with something like Postgresql ( www.postgresql.org http://www.postgresql.orgom ) or Mysql ( www.mysql.com http://www.mysql.com ), if you don't have a commercial database (like Oracle) available. -Original Message- From: faisal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 9:55 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: ms access Orion? does ms access work with Orion ?
Unsent Message Returned to Sender
Notice to Sender This message was received by this installation but could not be delivered to its intended cc:Mail recipient(s). Original subject: Unsent Message Returned to Sender Intended recipient(s) who DID NOT receive this message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The following cc:Mail error(s) were recorded: *** Message recipient is unknown *** Original Message Text Notice to Sender This message was received by this installation but could not be delivered to its intended cc:Mail recipient(s). Original subject: Unsent Message Returned to Sender Intended recipient(s) who DID NOT receive this message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The following cc:Mail error(s) were recorded: *** Message recipient is unknown *** Original Message Text Notice to Sender This message was received by this installation but could not be delivered to its intended cc:Mail recipient(s). Original subject: Re: RE: Garbage collection, out of memory Intended recipient(s) who DID NOT receive this message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The following cc:Mail error(s) were recorded: *** Message recipient is unknown *** Original Message Text The problem is not that simple. There's a bug. We then ran a test program that creates a simple entity bean in an infinite loop and then releases the reference of this entity bean. We ran a profiler on the VM and counted the memory instances. The server keeps the beans in a list, so the GC cant have them, and it turns out that even though memory seems to be running out, orion does not passivate. We told them, and [EMAIL PROTECTED] said thanx and they'd fix it, but they cannot give an estimate of when - we've been waiting for 3 months now. Up to 1.4.5 you could not limit the pool size, so there aint no way to force it to start passivating. Regards Jaco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Tim Endres Sent: 13 February 2001 23:32 To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: Garbage collection, out of memory Your GC times are huge because you have provided so much memory. If you reduce the 500MB to 128MB, you will see more GC's, but they will be much shorter. This is a well known optimization issue. Too little memory causes to many GC runs, while too much memory causes GC runs to be too long. You need to experiment to find the best amount of memory to allocate. tim. Hello We are experiencing a garbage collection problem. We are running Orion 1.4.7 on a Linux 2.4 box. We have been trying the Sun 1.2.2, the Sun 1.3 and the IBM JVM 1.3. On the Sun 1.3 JVM we have tried normal garbage collection and also -Xincgc incremental garbage collection. We run with 500 megabytes of heap space available to Java. The system uses lots of EJBs (mainly stateless session but also quite a few entities and a handful of stateful session beans), and we have JSP pages which run in the same JVM. The system runs very responsively and well, with up to 90 users simultaneously using it, for up to an hour. Then enormous GCs start happening which block all activity for up to 180 seconds at a time! The length and frequency of the freezes vary with the different JVMs but all are unusable after say an hour of up time. The Sun 1.3 in incremental GC mode is the best, and in fact remains stable and usable until it starts doing a few 9 second GCs from time to time (comparatively bearable) until we get a "HotSpot internal error" which stops all processing. We are trying all sorts of different things to stop our users getting upset, like reducing the JSP session timeout to a minimum, and are currently trying to analyse the code with JProbe to find out how to minimise unnecessary object creation or memory leaks (stale references to no longer used objects etc). As several list members have already said, it also seems that some beans are never passivated. What can we do to make Orion stop using more and more memory, and not to cause such outrageous garbage collection cycles? Any comments or suggestions would be very much appreciated. -- Thomas Munro [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.fullsix.com/ Fullsix Technology (Paris)
Unsent Message Returned to Sender
Notice to Sender This message was received by this installation but could not be delivered to its intended cc:Mail recipient(s). Original subject: Dependent-to-dependent relationships Intended recipient(s) who DID NOT receive this message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The following cc:Mail error(s) were recorded: *** Message recipient is unknown *** Original Message Text hello, I am experimenting this same problem as John did in November 00: http://www.mail-archive.com/orion-interest@orionserver.com/msg06636.html : I am trying to create a dependent to dependent relationship using Orion. I have noticed that Orion does not automatically create the OR mappings for these types of relationships as it does for other types. I have two questions really: 1) Does orion support this type of relationship? 2) If so, how should the orion-ejb-jar.xml file be configured to do this? I have posted below the error message I receive upon attempting to deploy as well as the relevant section from the orion-ejb-jar.xml file that I created. C:\app\orionjava -jar orion.jar Auto-deploying lib\higherlending.jar (Classes where updated)... java.lang.NullPointerException at com.evermind.server.ejb.deployment.fi.z2(JAX) at com.evermind.server.ejb.compilation.f6.ahe(JAX) at com.evermind.server.ejb.compilation.f6.ahe(JAX) at com.evermind.server.ejb.compilation.f6.ahe(JAX) at com.evermind.server.ejb.compilation.f6.ahe(JAX) at com.evermind.server.ejb.compilation.fy.aft(JAX) at com.evermind.server.ejb.compilation.fz.sz(JAX) at com.evermind.server.ejb.compilation.f6.sz(JAX) at com.evermind.server.ejb.compilation.gc.sz(JAX) at com.evermind.server.ejb.EJBContainer.bz(JAX) at com.evermind.server.Application.bz(JAX) at com.evermind.server.Application.gf(JAX) at com.evermind.server.ApplicationServer.ru(JAX) at com.evermind.server.ApplicationServer.ap6(JAX) at com.evermind.server.ApplicationServer.gf(JAX) at com.evermind.server.hi.run(JAX) at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:484) at com.evermind.util.f.run(JAX) entity-deployment name="Form" location="Form" wrapper="FormHome_EntityHomeWrapper22" table="Form" data-source="jdbc/HigherLending" primkey-mapping cmp-field-mapping fields cmp-field-mapping name="formId" persistence-name="form_Id" / /fields /cmp-field-mapping /primkey-mapping cmp-field-mapping name="formName" persistence-name="form_Name" / cmp-field-mapping name="formDescription" persistence-name="form_Description" / cmp-field-mapping name="formType" persistence-name="form_Type" / cmp-field-mapping name="formQueries" collection-mapping table="form_Query" primkey-mapping cmp-field-mapping fields cmp-field-mapping name="formId" persistence-name="form_Id" / /fields /cmp-field-mapping /primkey-mapping value-mapping type="com.higherlending.ejb.entity.form.FormQuery" cmp-field-mapping name="value" properties cmp-field-mapping name="queryPosition" persistence-name="Query_Position" / cmp-field-mapping name="dataType" persistence-name="Data_Type" / cmp-field-mapping name="dependency" persistence-name="Dependency" / cmp-field-mapping name="expression" persistence-name="Expression" / cmp-field-mapping name="elements" collection-mapping table="form_Query_element" primkey-mapping cmp-field-mapping fields cmp-field-mapping name="formId" persistence-name="form_Id" / cmp-field-mapping name="queryPosition" persistence-name="query_position" / /fields /cmp-field-mapping /primkey-mapping value-mapping type="com.higherlending.ejb.entity.form.FormQueryElement" cmp-field-mapping name="value" properties cmp-field-mapping name="element" entity-ref home="Element" cmp-field-mapping name="element" fields
Unsent Message Returned to Sender
Notice to Sender This message was received by this installation but could not be delivered to its intended cc:Mail recipient(s). Original subject: Unsent Message Returned to Sender Intended recipient(s) who DID NOT receive this message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The following cc:Mail error(s) were recorded: *** Message recipient is unknown *** Original Message Text Notice to Sender This message was received by this installation but could not be delivered to its intended cc:Mail recipient(s). Original subject: Unsent Message Returned to Sender Intended recipient(s) who DID NOT receive this message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The following cc:Mail error(s) were recorded: *** Message recipient is unknown *** Original Message Text Notice to Sender This message was received by this installation but could not be delivered to its intended cc:Mail recipient(s). Original subject: Unsent Message Returned to Sender Intended recipient(s) who DID NOT receive this message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The following cc:Mail error(s) were recorded: *** Message recipient is unknown *** Original Message Text Notice to Sender This message was received by this installation but could not be delivered to its intended cc:Mail recipient(s). Original subject: Unsent Message Returned to Sender Intended recipient(s) who DID NOT receive this message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The following cc:Mail error(s) were recorded: *** Message recipient is unknown *** Original Message Text Notice to Sender This message was received by this installation but could not be delivered to its intended cc:Mail recipient(s). Original subject: RE: Not authorized to view this page Intended recipient(s) who DID NOT receive this message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The following cc:Mail error(s) were recorded: *** Message recipient is unknown *** Original Message Text I found the problem, it seem that the global-web-application.xml supplied in the tutorial didn't have an entry for html, I added it. Also had to rename index.htm to index.html, a little disapointing to have these hassles considering that were talking about a comercial product. -Original Message- From: Magnus Rydin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 6:24 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: SV: Not authorized to view this page Are the pages protected? Have you added a entry to your principals.xml for the app? What version of Orion are you running? More information needed. WR -Ursprungligt meddelande- Frn: Adamson, Scott [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Skickat: den 14 februari 2001 16:05 Till: Orion-Interest mne: Not authorized to view this page I get the message 'Not authorized to view this page' when trying to run the addressbook example from the CMP primer. I believe Orion is working correctly as I can run the orion-primer example. Any help much appreciated. Come on !! Someone must have had a similar problem, I'm running Orion on Win NT workstation trying to access the pge from the same machine, how can I not have access to something on my own machine ?? I've tried loging in as admin (normal account should have admin rights anyway !) no difference. If any Orion support people monitor this list please help as I'm evaluating Orion with the view to deploying it within a 10 server cluster ($$$). regards, Scott.
RE: Is it just me?
Mine has been also. -Original Message- From: Dan Cramer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:32 PM To: Orion-Interest Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Is it just me? My inbox is being inundated by e-mails saying that mail couldn't be delivered to [EMAIL PROTECTED] They are all coming from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whoever the owner of this list is, please, take that e-mail address off the list. Sincerely, Dan Cramer Chief Architect Dynamic Resolve, LLC Internet Solutions Consulting
Unsent Message Returned to Sender
Notice to Sender This message was received by this installation but could not be delivered to its intended cc:Mail recipient(s). Original subject: Unsent Message Returned to Sender Intended recipient(s) who DID NOT receive this message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The following cc:Mail error(s) were recorded: *** Message recipient is unknown *** Original Message Text Notice to Sender This message was received by this installation but could not be delivered to its intended cc:Mail recipient(s). Original subject: Unsent Message Returned to Sender Intended recipient(s) who DID NOT receive this message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The following cc:Mail error(s) were recorded: *** Message recipient is unknown *** Original Message Text Notice to Sender This message was received by this installation but could not be delivered to its intended cc:Mail recipient(s). Original subject: Unsent Message Returned to Sender Intended recipient(s) who DID NOT receive this message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The following cc:Mail error(s) were recorded: *** Message recipient is unknown *** Original Message Text Notice to Sender This message was received by this installation but could not be delivered to its intended cc:Mail recipient(s). Original subject: Unsent Message Returned to Sender Intended recipient(s) who DID NOT receive this message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The following cc:Mail error(s) were recorded: *** Message recipient is unknown *** Original Message Text Notice to Sender This message was received by this installation but could not be delivered to its intended cc:Mail recipient(s). Original subject: Re: ms access Orion? Intended recipient(s) who DID NOT receive this message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The following cc:Mail error(s) were recorded: *** Message recipient is unknown *** Original Message Text Thank to all of u guys I have not been using BMP before and when i tried ms access it gave me a hard time though i works sometimes Thanks to your advice I am going to try MySQl for the moment Respect what a Great e-mailing list faisal - Original Message - From: Thomas Pridham To: Orion-Interest Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 7:01 PM Subject: RE: ms access Orion? Two other free RDMS's are: 1. Interbase (http://www.interbase.com) - originally developed by Borland, now open source. I am using this product in a commercial environment. It is a bit unstable on Linux, but runs great on Win2000. This DB has a JDBC client. This is a cross p latform DB. 2. SAP DB (http://www.sap.com/solutions/technology/sapdb/) - open sourced by SAP. I have not worked with this DB yet, but I will soon. This DB also has a type 4 JDBC driver. This is a cross-platform DB. Both of these databases "appear" to be industrial strength :) -Original Message- From: Kemp Randy-W18971 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 10:32 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: ms access Orion? Is ms access considered an RDMS and does it have a JDBC driver? If so, then it should be theoretically possible to have it work with Orion. But why would you want to do this? A better solution would be to work with something like Postgresql (www postgresql.org) or Mysql (www.mysql.com), if you don't have a commercial database (like Oracle) available. -Original Message- From: faisal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 9:55 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: ms access Orion? does ms access work with Orion ?
Global Directories
Hi, I was wondering if I can define a global Virtual directory i.e a directory that can be accessed from any application deployed in Orion?? I tried setting the Virtual Directory in Global-Web-Application.xml but i couldnt access the directory. The virtual directories work fine if I define them at each application level in orion-web.xml. Im using orion 1.4.5, jdk 1.3, W2K. Any pointers would be much appreciated. Thanks and Regards Aniket
RE: Unsent Message Returned to Sender
My mailbox has been flooded by messges from POSTMASTER. Can anyone tell me what is going on? Did you receive the same messge? Roland -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of POSTMASTER Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 6:57 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Unsent Message Returned to Sender Notice to Sender This message was received by this installation but could not be delivered to its intended cc:Mail recipient(s). Original subject: Unsent Message Returned to Sender Intended recipient(s) who DID NOT receive this message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The following cc:Mail error(s) were recorded: *** Message recipient is unknown *** Original Message Text Notice to Sender This message was received by this installation but could not be delivered to its intended cc:Mail recipient(s). Original subject: Unsent Message Returned to Sender Intended recipient(s) who DID NOT receive this message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The following cc:Mail error(s) were recorded: *** Message recipient is unknown *** Original Message Text Notice to Sender This message was received by this installation but could not be delivered to its intended cc:Mail recipient(s). Original subject: Unsent Message Returned to Sender Intended recipient(s) who DID NOT receive this message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The following cc:Mail error(s) were recorded: *** Message recipient is unknown *** Original Message Text Notice to Sender This message was received by this installation but could not be delivered to its intended cc:Mail recipient(s). Original subject: Orion doesn't work. Intended recipient(s) who DID NOT receive this message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The following cc:Mail error(s) were recorded: *** Message recipient is unknown *** Original Message Text I've surfed and surfed, and can't find any info on the problem I'm having. HELP! All brand new: Red Hat Linux v7, Sun J2EE 1.2.1, Sun JDK1.3, Orion 1.4.5 [geoff@daphne orion]$cd /usr/local/orion [geoff@daphne orion]$ java -jar orion.jar java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: com/evermind/gui/server/ServiceConsole at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:native) at kaffe.jar.ExecJarName.main(ExecJarName.java:70) at kaffe.jar.ExecJar.main(ExecJar.java:59) Obviously, I'm missing some class, but where/what is it? The JDK/SDK seems to be working fine i.e. I can compile and run java applications, etc. Does some .jar file need to be expanded??? HELP! -- -Geoff Marshall, Director of Development ... t e r r a s c o p e (415) 951-4944 54 Mint Street, Suite 110 direct (415) 625-0349 San Francisco, CA 94103 fax (415) 625-0306 ...
RE: ms access Orion?
From: Joseph B. Ottinger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Why do you say "pity?" (I'm assuming you don't mean "piety" here.) Why should it be open source? Do you think you can apply patches faster than the Orion team? (I don't think I could, nor do I think you For me, the value of source is not that I would be able to fix bugs - although I might very well be able to do so. The real value is that source code substitutes reasonably well for documentation. Here's a hypothetical exception for you: com.evermind.server.rmi.OrionRemoteException: CrypticMessage at something.you.recognize.if.you.Are.lucky() at com.evermind.server.http.d3.sw(JAX) at com.evermind.server.http.d3.su(JAX) at com.evermind.server.http.ef.s1(JAX) at com.evermind.server.http.ef.do(JAX) at com.evermind.util.f.run(JAX) We've probably all experienced this at least once. Probably it was a silly mistake in the deployment descriptor, but the error shows up as an exception in the wrapper or somewhere else. I know I've seen posts to this list of exceptions which were obfuscated all the way up to the throw statement. Rare, but annoying as all hell. I've spent a lot of time in trial and error when a quick glance at the source code would have answered my question. Nothing documents like the code. I've even found the JDK source to be necessary - I had to comb through the RMI-IIOP source code to figure out what the error codes I was getting meant.Using RMI-IIOP is like using Orion, but without the (usually) verbose error messages and support community. :-( it, and their model fits them. Going open source means that they get relegated to supplying services only, which may indeed be profitable, but is profit the only motive? (I say no, because if it were, they'd sell Orion for more money.) I should point out that shipping source does not mean the product has to be free. Resin is a good example. It does open up the opportunity for competitors to see potential trade secrets. I don't know what black magic is under the covers, so I have no idea if this is a concern. Given how far ahead of the pack Orion is regarding the emerging j2ee specs, I suspect it might be. Personally, I've never seen a development tool or library documented sufficiently well that I didn't feel a need for source code. I *hate* trial-and-error programming, but it always consumes an inordinate amount of my development time. Believe me, I read manuals cover-to-cover, but even the good ones haven't stood up under fire. And the bad ones have just been plain wrong :-) I'm happy to continue using Orion, even without source code, mostly because I've already gotten over the worst of the learning curve. But there were times when I would have jumped on JBoss in a second if it supported EJB2.0. I wonder how many people who don't need the new spec features or have bigger pocketbooks have bailed because of documentation issues, and I wonder if shipping the source would be a quick half-solution to this problem. Jeff
AW: Unsent Message Returned to Sender
oK, I have send now 2 mails to the Request-Heandler of this list [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] to unsubscribe [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]. Is [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] the right or do the Postmaster shorten something on the address?? I'm also an normal user of this list, but I think this is the normal way to handle this on ML-Request-Heandlers. So I hope this works[pleeease] Berni found on the orion-HP: To unsubscribe from this list: If you want to unsubscribe, simply send a mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe Or from another account, besides the email account you subscribed to: unsubscribe email address
Re: Using Log4j With Orion
And could someone provide a valid pointer to Log4j proper? Can't seem to get to it at IBM's web site. Thanks Steven Gardell Iperia, Inc. - Original Message - From: Hee Meng, Poh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Orion-Interest [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:50 PM Subject: Using Log4j With Orion Hi, Anyone uses Log4j with Orion? Think of providing logging facilites for both web and ejb components. What's the good way to specify a PropertyConfigurator? Thanks for any info. Regards
Re: Using Log4j With Orion
http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/ On Sat, 17 Feb 2001, Steven Gardell wrote: And could someone provide a valid pointer to Log4j proper? Can't seem to get to it at IBM's web site. Thanks --- Joseph B. Ottinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://epesh.com/ IT Consultant
Re: Unsent Message Returned to Sender
Hello Bernhard, we have unsubscribed the two relevant/possible addresses causing this, but most likely it's still queued up. We'll see if we can block the sender to prevent further pollution from this (incorrectly configured?) mailer daeamon shortly. We're sorry for any inconvenience this has caused, and yes, annoying it is. Oh well, have a nice day all, at least after having deleted this chunk of junk mail! ;). /Magnus Stenman, the Orion team PS. Yes the reported address is not the correct (subscribed) one, got to love mail aliases... - Original Message - From: "Bernhard Broo" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Orion-Interest" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 1:39 PM Subject: AW: Unsent Message Returned to Sender oK, I have send now 2 mails to the Request-Heandler of this list [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] to unsubscribe [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]. Is [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] the right or do the Postmaster shorten something on the address?? I'm also an normal user of this list, but I think this is the normal way to handle this on ML-Request-Heandlers. So I hope this works[pleeease] Berni found on the orion-HP: To unsubscribe from this list: If you want to unsubscribe, simply send a mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the following command in the body of your email message: unsubscribe Or from another account, besides the email account you subscribed to: unsubscribe email address
RE: Where are the perfumes bubble bath beads
Andre, You make many good points. One of my disappointments with J2EE is that, like many of the "non-EJB" application servers (such as Netscape App Server), J2EE products are typically hard to configure. This is due, in part, to the J2EE spec allowing J2EE products can have a lot of latitude in how they accomplish configuration. Things like clustering and load balancing between server instances are wide open. Most of the requests I get for J2EE consulting have to do with some sort of configuration issues. Often, I see that large J2EE development projects have organizational disconnects between the various development groups. For example, the Oracle dba's are oblivious to how db row and table locks affect the EJBs, the web developers don't understand what an EJB is or how a JSP can call it, the network managers understand request-level failover, but do not understand maintenance of state between redundant EJBs, and the manager who paid big bucks for the app server is wondering why such an expensive product doesn't work! If you look at most of the traffic on orion-interest, it has to do with configuration issues. I think use of XML configuration files has helped a lot, but configuring any large distributed system, even with XML files, is not for the lighthearted. Knowing that most fancy tools merely modify the underlying config files, I would be concerned about anyone who reconfigured a J2EE system with a GUI tool, but without understanding how to do it manually. If I could wave a magic wand over the J2EE world, it would be to have a universal Java GUI for easily configuring and monitoring any J2EE product. It would provide help as to which configuration changes were for J2EE standard configuration items, and which were unique to a given product (WebsFear, Orion, whatever). Before ending this diatribe, let me emphasize the monitoring/diagnostics thing. Another major issue with J2EE after deployment is integrated diagnostics. How can you tell, for example, that an Entity EJB is hanging because someone logged into the db via a telnet session, began executing a horrendous query, then killed the telnet session without logging out, and thus locking out some EJBs? How can you tell whether or not an underlying IP socket connection is waiting to time out? Well, I've got a deadline due yesterday, so I'll get off my soapbox and stop preaching to the choir. Someday, I'd love to try solving these problems. :-} Have fun! Jay Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 12:55 PM 2/16/01 -0700, you wrote: Although perfumed bubble bath beads are nice and fun to use, sometimes their aroma can be nauseating. In my opinion the less code the better. Less bugs, and quicker fixes. The company I work for now uses iPlanet, and I really miss working with Orion. In my opinion even the beta version of Orion were more stable than IAS6 is now. There are several reasons IAS is so big, and I would assume the other heavy weights for similar reasons. IPlanet used to be Netscape Application Server which used to be Kiva Application server before the days of J2EE, and it includes support for Applogics (Proprietary api for writing servlet-like-things in C++). All the J2EE features were just tacked on, and I doubt anybody cleaned up the old code, so there's a lot of legacy baggage. - Full clustering support at all levels. - Netscape Directory Server for LDAP backed JNDI and authentication. - Netscape Administration Server and Console - iPlanet Web Server - Based on Netscape Enterprise Server. - 400+ pages of documentation - Lots of buggy deployment and packaging tools - Something orion has in common ;) - Broken ejb compilers (On Solaris) - A great feature which randomly throws ClassCast exceptions when using SFSBs. - AbstractMethod exceptions in compiled jsps. Although my last three points are just vents of frustration, the point I'm trying to make is that size!=quality. Sure iPlanet in a cluster configuration can handle more requests than Orion, but at $40K+ per server, its probably better to run several cheaper servers and buy an expensive, hardware based load balancer. I think oracle 9I AS brings a lot of database integration to the server, and when you look at just the size of the Net8 client, 1Gig doesn't sound that far-fetched. Last of all, everyone is always complaining about orion's documentation. True, Orion doesn't provide hand-holding documentation, and the existing docs could definitely use improvement, but there is certainly enough there to get a basic app up and running. iPlanet comes with a 200 page developer's guide, a 100 page administrator's guide and lots of supplements. How much value do they add? To a complete J2EE beginner, probably some, but their news group contains almost as many and the same type of questions as the orion list. Orion is a J2EE server, so to use it, and any other J2EE server, you need to understand J2EE. J2EE is complex (that's why we get paid the big bucks), but
RE: ms access Orion?
The point I am making is this: I will continue to use Orion, whether or not it is open source. Nor do I feel I am better then the people at Orion or those on this list. However, if the Orion code were open source, perhaps I or you may solve an error they can't, partially due to the environment we are running in or we are not caught in the syndrome of tunnel vision. How many times have you focused on the bigger picture, only to have a coworker look at the problem and point you in the right direction? Many times. The people are Orion are very bright. So are the founders of Jboss and openEJB. Yet I wouldn't expect them to solve all the zillion different combinations of problems, given all the different environmental variables, by themselves. They are happy for the bright people out there -- such as yourself. And yes, you can pat yourself on the back -- as you have made some very good insights in the past into server issues. So whether Orion is open source or not, is a d! ! ! ecision for them to make. I respect what they choose either way, but I still feel open source is better. -Original Message- From: Jeff Schnitzer To: Orion-Interest Sent: 2/17/01 4:25 AM Subject: RE: ms access Orion? From: Joseph B. Ottinger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Why do you say "pity?" (I'm assuming you don't mean "piety" here.) Why should it be open source? Do you think you can apply patches faster than the Orion team? (I don't think I could, nor do I think you For me, the value of source is not that I would be able to fix bugs - although I might very well be able to do so. The real value is that source code substitutes reasonably well for documentation. Here's a hypothetical exception for you: com.evermind.server.rmi.OrionRemoteException: CrypticMessage at something.you.recognize.if.you.Are.lucky() at com.evermind.server.http.d3.sw(JAX) at com.evermind.server.http.d3.su(JAX) at com.evermind.server.http.ef.s1(JAX) at com.evermind.server.http.ef.do(JAX) at com.evermind.util.f.run(JAX) We've probably all experienced this at least once. Probably it was a silly mistake in the deployment descriptor, but the error shows up as an exception in the wrapper or somewhere else. I know I've seen posts to this list of exceptions which were obfuscated all the way up to the throw statement. Rare, but annoying as all hell. I've spent a lot of time in trial and error when a quick glance at the source code would have answered my question. Nothing documents like the code. I've even found the JDK source to be necessary - I had to comb through the RMI-IIOP source code to figure out what the error codes I was getting meant.Using RMI-IIOP is like using Orion, but without the (usually) verbose error messages and support community. :-( it, and their model fits them. Going open source means that they get relegated to supplying services only, which may indeed be profitable, but is profit the only motive? (I say no, because if it were, they'd sell Orion for more money.) I should point out that shipping source does not mean the product has to be free. Resin is a good example. It does open up the opportunity for competitors to see potential trade secrets. I don't know what black magic is under the covers, so I have no idea if this is a concern. Given how far ahead of the pack Orion is regarding the emerging j2ee specs, I suspect it might be. Personally, I've never seen a development tool or library documented sufficiently well that I didn't feel a need for source code. I *hate* trial-and-error programming, but it always consumes an inordinate amount of my development time. Believe me, I read manuals cover-to-cover, but even the good ones haven't stood up under fire. And the bad ones have just been plain wrong :-) I'm happy to continue using Orion, even without source code, mostly because I've already gotten over the worst of the learning curve. But there were times when I would have jumped on JBoss in a second if it supported EJB2.0. I wonder how many people who don't need the new spec features or have bigger pocketbooks have bailed because of documentation issues, and I wonder if shipping the source would be a quick half-solution to this problem. Jeff
RE: ms access Orion?
I will resend this again, since I am not sure I replied to Orion or yoursef. I am not implying I'm better then the people at Orion or those on this list. Orion has some very bright people, but so are the founders of Jboss and openejb, but they would not expect to solve all the different combinations of problems by themselves. Can they recreative all the various combinations of hardware, software, etc., that the different users have put together? And how many times have you or I been caught in tunnel vision -- only to have some friend or coworker say to look here or there? And you need to pat yourself on the back -- since you have made some wonderful insights into the structures of the various servers. Yes, I have seen your great questions and insights at both Orion and openEJB. So what is the point? Whether Orion chooses to become open source or not, is up to them. I continue to use Orion and will do so. However, I think that more problems would be solved by the gre! ! ! at contributions of other bright people on this list if it were open source. -Original Message- From: Jeff Schnitzer To: Orion-Interest Sent: 2/17/01 4:25 AM Subject: RE: ms access Orion? From: Joseph B. Ottinger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Why do you say "pity?" (I'm assuming you don't mean "piety" here.) Why should it be open source? Do you think you can apply patches faster than the Orion team? (I don't think I could, nor do I think you For me, the value of source is not that I would be able to fix bugs - although I might very well be able to do so. The real value is that source code substitutes reasonably well for documentation. Here's a hypothetical exception for you: com.evermind.server.rmi.OrionRemoteException: CrypticMessage at something.you.recognize.if.you.Are.lucky() at com.evermind.server.http.d3.sw(JAX) at com.evermind.server.http.d3.su(JAX) at com.evermind.server.http.ef.s1(JAX) at com.evermind.server.http.ef.do(JAX) at com.evermind.util.f.run(JAX) We've probably all experienced this at least once. Probably it was a silly mistake in the deployment descriptor, but the error shows up as an exception in the wrapper or somewhere else. I know I've seen posts to this list of exceptions which were obfuscated all the way up to the throw statement. Rare, but annoying as all hell. I've spent a lot of time in trial and error when a quick glance at the source code would have answered my question. Nothing documents like the code. I've even found the JDK source to be necessary - I had to comb through the RMI-IIOP source code to figure out what the error codes I was getting meant.Using RMI-IIOP is like using Orion, but without the (usually) verbose error messages and support community. :-( it, and their model fits them. Going open source means that they get relegated to supplying services only, which may indeed be profitable, but is profit the only motive? (I say no, because if it were, they'd sell Orion for more money.) I should point out that shipping source does not mean the product has to be free. Resin is a good example. It does open up the opportunity for competitors to see potential trade secrets. I don't know what black magic is under the covers, so I have no idea if this is a concern. Given how far ahead of the pack Orion is regarding the emerging j2ee specs, I suspect it might be. Personally, I've never seen a development tool or library documented sufficiently well that I didn't feel a need for source code. I *hate* trial-and-error programming, but it always consumes an inordinate amount of my development time. Believe me, I read manuals cover-to-cover, but even the good ones haven't stood up under fire. And the bad ones have just been plain wrong :-) I'm happy to continue using Orion, even without source code, mostly because I've already gotten over the worst of the learning curve. But there were times when I would have jumped on JBoss in a second if it supported EJB2.0. I wonder how many people who don't need the new spec features or have bigger pocketbooks have bailed because of documentation issues, and I wonder if shipping the source would be a quick half-solution to this problem. Jeff
RE: ms access Orion?
I would refer you to my reply to Jeff. I really don't compare myself to others, nor do I want to. Personally, I am an hack fiction writer, but I would never say I am better then those in my class or in the world, for that matter. Yet I do have the potential to make a contribution, as do all the others on this list. Some commercial products choose to become open source, like Resin, and I don't see anyone using their code to copy them, and they are very successful - as far as I can tell. Tomcat is non commercial, but they have Sun, IBM, and Apache taking part in it, as well as other bright people in the Apache community. Whether Orion chooses to become or not become open source, is for them to decide -- I respect that decision either way. However, if they did choose to be open source, then shape people on this list, such as yourself, have the potential to help solve problems and make suggestions they may be too swamped with to do by themselves. -Original Message- From: Joseph B. Ottinger To: Orion-Interest Sent: 2/17/01 1:13 AM Subject: RE: ms access Orion? On Fri, 16 Feb 2001, Kemp Randy-W18971 wrote: I am sure, at one point in time, the same was true with Apache. But now that the kid has grown up, look where it is today. Which is why I Yeah, look where apache is today - used everywhere by people who don't need it to do much, which fits its capabilities really well. make a big distinction between a plain open source, and a mature open source. Things like Apache, Linux, Mysql, and Postgresql are mature open source -- partly due to the fact that they been around for a number of years. Projects like Orion, Resin, Jboss, Tomcat, Enhydra, They've been around for a number of years, meaning "for a while" - 0 is a number, too, after all - and maturity always comes with age. Unfortunately, quality doesn't. Openejb, and Jonas have the potential to become mature open source (yes, Orion is not open - piety), some more then others (like Jboss, Tomcat, and Openejb) and they probably will be. People ask, for Why do you say "pity?" (I'm assuming you don't mean "piety" here.) Why should it be open source? Do you think you can apply patches faster than the Orion team? (I don't think I could, nor do I think you could.) Do you think you understand what the spec is well enough? Do you think you have the discipline to keep to the spec even when it's retarded? I don't think most people are. (I know that I'd be vastly tempted to fix the Servlet API...) And do you REALLY think that the Orion team - which enjoys development more than support - should be forced to change their chosen business model just because YOU think YOU could do better with THEIR source than THEY can? They enjoy what they're doing and how they're doing it, and their model fits them. Going open source means that they get relegated to supplying services only, which may indeed be profitable, but is profit the only motive? (I say no, because if it were, they'd sell Orion for more money.) [SNIP!] Personally, I certainly benefit from open source, but realistically... it's not always the perfect solution. --- Joseph B. Ottinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://epesh.com/ IT Consultant
Is there anyone there ?
I've made several unsucessful attempts to get off this list, by sending requests to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] as requested. The software keeps telling me that I'm not a member but the postings keep turning up anyway. Is there anyone actually alive at Orion who can control this list ? Is it possible to get off or am I doomed to download up to 100 messages a day, half from [EMAIL PROTECTED]presumably from someone who got away by changing their email address (in despair I guess). I'm at the end of a low bandwidth link for the next little while and this is becoming annoying. Come on Orion; poor list management is beginning to make you guys look unprofessional. Andy Dwelly
RE: ms access Orion?faisal again
That is a good question, and I think you will probably find them evenly matched, especially if you run mysql with the Berkeley engine. Has anyone out there benchmarked the two with EJB 2.0? -Original Message- From: faisal To: Orion-Interest Sent: 2/16/01 5:13 PM Subject: Re: ms access Orion?faisal again Thank u Last request from u guys Which is of those two MySql or Postegrel is most likely have better performane with EJB PMP ? thanks - Original Message - From: "Tim Endres" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Orion-Interest" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 5:47 PM Subject: RE: ms access Orion? However, MySQL support has not always been that "first class". I can remember the days when MySQL support was much like Orion support today - you needed the mailing list! Lets hope that Orion can make the same transition to providing strong support. tim. If you use mysql, I think you need to compile the Berkeley engine first to get transaction support. Please query MySQL on this, if you need to use transactions. Their support and documentation is first class (are you taking notes here Orion? There is a quiz next week). -Original Message- From: faisal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 5:06 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: ms access Orion? Thank to all of u guys I have not been using BMP before and when i tried ms access it gave me a hard time though i works sometimes Thanks to your advice I am going to try MySQl for the moment Respect what a Great e-mailing list faisal - Original Message - From: Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Pridham To: Orion-Interest mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 7:01 PM Subject: RE: ms access Orion? Two other free RDMS's are: 1. Interbase (http:// www.interbase.com http://www.interbase.com ) - originally developed by Borland, now open source. I am using this product in a commercial environment. It is a bit unstable on Linux, but runs great on Win2000. This DB has a JDBC client. This is a cross platform DB. 2. SAP DB ( http://www.sap.com/solutions/technology/sapdb/ http://www.sap.com/solutions/technology/sapdb/ ) - open sourced by SAP. I have not worked with this DB yet, but I will soon. This DB also has a type 4 JDBC driver. This is a cross-platform DB. Both of these databases "appear" to be industrial strength :) -Original Message- From: Kemp Randy-W18971 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 10:32 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: ms access Orion? Is ms access considered an RDMS and does it have a JDBC driver? If so, then it should be theoretically possible to have it work with Orion. But why would you want to do this? A better solution would be to work with something like Postgresql ( www.postgresql.org http://www.postgresql.orgom ) or Mysql ( www.mysql.com http://www.mysql.com ), if you don't have a commercial database (like Oracle) available. -Original Message- From: faisal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 9:55 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: ms access Orion? does ms access work with Orion ?
RE: ms access Orion?faisal again
Sorry, Fascal. I misread your email and you didn't mention EJB 2.0. But I would ask if anyone has done any benchmarks that can shed some light. -Original Message- From: faisal To: Orion-Interest Sent: 2/16/01 5:13 PM Subject: Re: ms access Orion?faisal again Thank u Last request from u guys Which is of those two MySql or Postegrel is most likely have better performane with EJB PMP ? thanks - Original Message - From: "Tim Endres" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Orion-Interest" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 5:47 PM Subject: RE: ms access Orion? However, MySQL support has not always been that "first class". I can remember the days when MySQL support was much like Orion support today - you needed the mailing list! Lets hope that Orion can make the same transition to providing strong support. tim. If you use mysql, I think you need to compile the Berkeley engine first to get transaction support. Please query MySQL on this, if you need to use transactions. Their support and documentation is first class (are you taking notes here Orion? There is a quiz next week). -Original Message- From: faisal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 5:06 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: ms access Orion? Thank to all of u guys I have not been using BMP before and when i tried ms access it gave me a hard time though i works sometimes Thanks to your advice I am going to try MySQl for the moment Respect what a Great e-mailing list faisal - Original Message - From: Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Pridham To: Orion-Interest mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 7:01 PM Subject: RE: ms access Orion? Two other free RDMS's are: 1. Interbase (http:// www.interbase.com http://www.interbase.com ) - originally developed by Borland, now open source. I am using this product in a commercial environment. It is a bit unstable on Linux, but runs great on Win2000. This DB has a JDBC client. This is a cross platform DB. 2. SAP DB ( http://www.sap.com/solutions/technology/sapdb/ http://www.sap.com/solutions/technology/sapdb/ ) - open sourced by SAP. I have not worked with this DB yet, but I will soon. This DB also has a type 4 JDBC driver. This is a cross-platform DB. Both of these databases "appear" to be industrial strength :) -Original Message- From: Kemp Randy-W18971 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 10:32 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: ms access Orion? Is ms access considered an RDMS and does it have a JDBC driver? If so, then it should be theoretically possible to have it work with Orion. But why would you want to do this? A better solution would be to work with something like Postgresql ( www.postgresql.org http://www.postgresql.orgom ) or Mysql ( www.mysql.com http://www.mysql.com ), if you don't have a commercial database (like Oracle) available. -Original Message- From: faisal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 9:55 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: ms access Orion? does ms access work with Orion ?
RE: Where are the perfumes bubble bath beads
Andre: Thank you for your detailed reply about Iplanet, and I am sorry you are leaving this list. Was that you who requested to leave in a later email? You certainly have a lot of potential to make wonderful contributions. Now on two the documentation. I decided to take a week and play with Jonas a while back. Even though their documentation is pretty good, I had no real trouble with it, other then a few questions the list promptly answered. But I was able to use my knowledge from my exposure to Orion and Jboss. Now I am playing with Oracle i* DB, which should be much easier, regardless of the documentation (but the doc is very good, and so is the Oracle support). But what about the people frist coming to Orion or are evaluating it as an alternative to another commercial or open source endeaver? Don't you think documentation could have a strong influence on their decision to go or not? And what about the people funding the operation? If I asked my boss to fund some software acquisition, he would ask to review the documentation, so he can understand it. And he is no dummy, since he has a Ph.D. in computer science. But if he should ever look at the Orion doc, he would say: Out you out! ! ! of your mind? Randy -Original Message- From: Andre Vanha To: Orion-Interest Sent: 2/16/01 1:55 PM Subject: RE: Where are the perfumes bubble bath beads Although perfumed bubble bath beads are nice and fun to use, sometimes their aroma can be nauseating. In my opinion the less code the better. Less bugs, and quicker fixes. The company I work for now uses iPlanet, and I really miss working with Orion. In my opinion even the beta version of Orion were more stable than IAS6 is now. There are several reasons IAS is so big, and I would assume the other heavy weights for similar reasons. IPlanet used to be Netscape Application Server which used to be Kiva Application server before the days of J2EE, and it includes support for Applogics (Proprietary api for writing servlet-like-things in C++). All the J2EE features were just tacked on, and I doubt anybody cleaned up the old code, so there's a lot of legacy baggage. - Full clustering support at all levels. - Netscape Directory Server for LDAP backed JNDI and authentication. - Netscape Administration Server and Console - iPlanet Web Server - Based on Netscape Enterprise Server. - 400+ pages of documentation - Lots of buggy deployment and packaging tools - Something orion has in common ;) - Broken ejb compilers (On Solaris) - A great feature which randomly throws ClassCast exceptions when using SFSBs. - AbstractMethod exceptions in compiled jsps. Although my last three points are just vents of frustration, the point I'm trying to make is that size!=quality. Sure iPlanet in a cluster configuration can handle more requests than Orion, but at $40K+ per server, its probably better to run several cheaper servers and buy an expensive, hardware based load balancer. I think oracle 9I AS brings a lot of database integration to the server, and when you look at just the size of the Net8 client, 1Gig doesn't sound that far-fetched. Last of all, everyone is always complaining about orion's documentation. True, Orion doesn't provide hand-holding documentation, and the existing docs could definitely use improvement, but there is certainly enough there to get a basic app up and running. iPlanet comes with a 200 page developer's guide, a 100 page administrator's guide and lots of supplements. How much value do they add? To a complete J2EE beginner, probably some, but their news group contains almost as many and the same type of questions as the orion list. Orion is a J2EE server, so to use it, and any other J2EE server, you need to understand J2EE. J2EE is complex (that's why we get paid the big bucks), but once you get at least a basic understanding (things like EARs, WARs, EJB-JARs and resource-refs) the only documentation you'll need is for server specific configuration, and the orion docs pretty much cover that. I agree some of the advanced features (such as SSL, JMS and such) are lacking, but even those were sufficient to get me up and running although it took longer. I admit I'm biased since I learned J2EE on Orion, but in my experience, Orion is fairly easy to work with compared to IAS and Weblogic. Maybe I need to take a look at some of these other servers since everyone is raving about their documentation. Andre -Original Message- From: Kemp Randy-W18971 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 7:06 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Where are the perfumes bubble bath beads Here is a mystery I need help with. If all JSP engines and EJB servers are approximately equal, then what explains the size differences in the following examples? Latest production Orion - 10 MG Latest production Resin - 12.8 MG Latest productions Jboss/Tomcat - 23.3 Mg Latest production Unify Ewave Engine - 18.1 MG
RE: Where are the perfumes bubble bath beads
Jay and Andre: Thanks for enlightening me over the many issues regarding EJB. I was especially interested in how the various groups do not understand the other roles. DBA's do not understand EJB, etc. I think people need to put themselves in these other roles, in order to understand the big picture. Before I ventured into J2EE (hey! I amit. The complexity of J2EE intrigued me), I did some work for a while supporting a home build gateway for a major credit card company, using several gateways and routers. You understand how TCP/IP works after a while (especially after seeing how a gateway functions). And now I am playing with being an Oracle DBA, but I am learning how all the pieces fit totether. The people on this list are very bright, and I really love Orion and jboss. I always look at things this way. If I don't know something, some bright person can teach me. If a newcomer asks a question, and I can answer it, we have another potential Orion or J2EE member in the fold. Randy -Original Message- From: Jay Armstrong To: Orion-Interest Sent: 2/17/01 9:11 AM Subject: RE: Where are the perfumes bubble bath beads Andre, You make many good points. One of my disappointments with J2EE is that, like many of the "non-EJB" application servers (such as Netscape App Server), J2EE products are typically hard to configure. This is due, in part, to the J2EE spec allowing J2EE products can have a lot of latitude in how they accomplish configuration. Things like clustering and load balancing between server instances are wide open. Most of the requests I get for J2EE consulting have to do with some sort of configuration issues. Often, I see that large J2EE development projects have organizational disconnects between the various development groups. For example, the Oracle dba's are oblivious to how db row and table locks affect the EJBs, the web developers don't understand what an EJB is or how a JSP can call it, the network managers understand request-level failover, but do not understand maintenance of state between redundant EJBs, and the manager who paid big bucks for the app server is wondering why such an expensive product doesn't work! If you look at most of the traffic on orion-interest, it has to do with configuration issues. I think use of XML configuration files has helped a lot, but configuring any large distributed system, even with XML files, is not for the lighthearted. Knowing that most fancy tools merely modify the underlying config files, I would be concerned about anyone who reconfigured a J2EE system with a GUI tool, but without understanding how to do it manually. If I could wave a magic wand over the J2EE world, it would be to have a universal Java GUI for easily configuring and monitoring any J2EE product. It would provide help as to which configuration changes were for J2EE standard configuration items, and which were unique to a given product (WebsFear, Orion, whatever). Before ending this diatribe, let me emphasize the monitoring/diagnostics thing. Another major issue with J2EE after deployment is integrated diagnostics. How can you tell, for example, that an Entity EJB is hanging because someone logged into the db via a telnet session, began executing a horrendous query, then killed the telnet session without logging out, and thus locking out some EJBs? How can you tell whether or not an underlying IP socket connection is waiting to time out? Well, I've got a deadline due yesterday, so I'll get off my soapbox and stop preaching to the choir. Someday, I'd love to try solving these problems. :-} Have fun! Jay Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 12:55 PM 2/16/01 -0700, you wrote: Although perfumed bubble bath beads are nice and fun to use, sometimes their aroma can be nauseating. In my opinion the less code the better. Less bugs, and quicker fixes. The company I work for now uses iPlanet, and I really miss working with Orion. In my opinion even the beta version of Orion were more stable than IAS6 is now. There are several reasons IAS is so big, and I would assume the other heavy weights for similar reasons. IPlanet used to be Netscape Application Server which used to be Kiva Application server before the days of J2EE, and it includes support for Applogics (Proprietary api for writing servlet-like-things in C++). All the J2EE features were just tacked on, and I doubt anybody cleaned up the old code, so there's a lot of legacy baggage. - Full clustering support at all levels. - Netscape Directory Server for LDAP backed JNDI and authentication. - Netscape Administration Server and Console - iPlanet Web Server - Based on Netscape Enterprise Server. - 400+ pages of documentation - Lots of buggy deployment and packaging tools - Something orion has in common ;) - Broken ejb compilers (On Solaris) - A great feature which randomly throws ClassCast exceptions when using SFSBs. - AbstractMethod exceptions in compiled jsps. Although my
JNI loading from jsp
i've been having huge problems with the UnsatisfiedLinkError with the jni package from http://bristowhill.com/download/gd/ i had it working last night, after i moved the classes out of orion homeWEB-INF/classes to orion homelib/ i also have it in /usr/lib which is my default lib dir but after i had a fatal error, with my program, and restared the server i get the same error again. has anyone else had issues loading .so libraries?
Struts
Hi list, I am having some difficulty with Struts, maybe someone can help. I have read posting about Struts not being able right away to work with Orion, I did the modification in ActionServlet that were posted in a previous email and it seemed to work a little better (see http://www.mail-archive.com/orion-interest@orionserver.com/msg07103.html) Now I have different errors about Struts finding my action and .properties file. I did put my Action classes and ResourceBundles.properties in the WEB-INF\classes, but I would then get a 500 error Class not found error from struts (I suppose it's tied to the fact that they are loaded dynamically by Struts). I can make it work if I put them under \orion\lib. But this certainly isn't a good solution. Am I the only one having this problem? If some of you are successfully running struts 1.0 on Orion 1.4.7 with JDK1.3 could you share your experience and configuration settings Thanks, Christian Billen
Incremental Development with Orion
How should one setup Orion for rapid and incremental Servlets,JSP, and EJB development? I got the Servlets and JSP setup done, but the EJB setup is still a bit iffy (thanks Faisal for your notes). I expectour developers to develop ourEJBsin a veryincrementalfashion,so I would like to get ideas on a setup which can support a fast code,debug,code cycle. Thanks. Anh
-Xconcurrentio + J2SE 1.3
Is anyone using this with the Server hotspot VM? Are you noticing a speed increase? Here's the text from the Performance FAQ which seems to indicate this would give a radical perfomance increase to Orion (as it uses a lot of IO / threads being a web server): "If you're blocked doing I/O, then no matter which version of java you use you will not be able to speed this up. If your application is using many threads then try -Xconcurrentio to speed things up, this can make very large differences in throughput (we've noticed 40%+ improvement on certain applications). " -mike
RE: Incremental Development with Orion
Easy, use Ant to create a build script to build your EJB jar file, then Orion will automatically pick up that change and redeploy. -mike -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Phan Anh TranSent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 3:00 PMTo: Orion-InterestSubject: Incremental Development with Orion How should one setup Orion for rapid and incremental Servlets,JSP, and EJB development? I got the Servlets and JSP setup done, but the EJB setup is still a bit iffy (thanks Faisal for your notes). I expectour developers to develop ourEJBsin a veryincrementalfashion,so I would like to get ideas on a setup which can support a fast code,debug,code cycle. Thanks. Anh
Oracle Sequences and CMP
I'm trying to use CMP for beans that map to tables in which the primary key is an integer that comes from an Oracle SEQUENCE. How do I get the container to get the next number from the appropriate SEQUENCE on a create? Help is appreciated, Dan Cramer Chief Architect Dynamic Resolve, LLC Internet Solutions Consulting
RE: Incremental Development with Orion
An alternative to using Ant that still allows fast debugging is to lay out your filestructure as recommended in the application creation howto (http://www.orionserver.com/docs/application-creation-howto.html). Store your EJBs under the appname-ejb folder, and to automatically redeploy, touch the ejb-jar.xml file, and then the application.xml file (the order is important) after making changes and compiling. Orion watches those XML config files and automatically redeploys when they have been updated (or 'touch'ed). You can writea shell or batch script to automate this process for you, which makes deployment incredibly fast. This feature alone makes Orion worth the price of admission... Darren. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Mike Cannon-BrookesSent: February 17, 2001 9:09 PMTo: Orion-InterestSubject: RE: Incremental Development with Orion Easy, use Ant to create a build script to build your EJB jar file, then Orion will automatically pick up that change and redeploy. -mike -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Phan Anh TranSent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 3:00 PMTo: Orion-InterestSubject: Incremental Development with Orion How should one setup Orion for rapid and incremental Servlets,JSP, and EJB development? I got the Servlets and JSP setup done, but the EJB setup is still a bit iffy (thanks Faisal for your notes). I expectour developers to develop ourEJBsin a veryincrementalfashion,so I would like to get ideas on a setup which can support a fast code,debug,code cycle. Thanks. Anh
