RE: Orion in production - Let's sell support!
However, you say that you have not bought a license yet and that means you have not yet bought any support from us. If you are serious in choosing Orion I think it can actually save you money to get a license when developing (even if you can get free developer licenses), since it will mean you get better support from us. This is just wrong. I would expect to have full documentation (via pdf, whatever) _before_ my company buys the product. I would want to be able to code a complete proof-of-concept project and test it _before_ shelling out money. Just my opinion, -tim
RE: Orion in production - Let's sell support!
Tim has brought up an interesting point. Orion has granted free licenses to developers, which is a good concept. However, Orion not only has to compete with other commercial products like web-logic, but good open source EJB servers, like JBoss and JOnAS. It would only be fair to have good documentation to review, and to deploy a test sample to demonstrate Orion can work, for those funding the development and software purchases. -Original Message- From: Tim Drury [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:10 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: Orion in production - Let's sell support! However, you say that you have not bought a license yet and that means you have not yet bought any support from us. If you are serious in choosing Orion I think it can actually save you money to get a license when developing (even if you can get free developer licenses), since it will mean you get better support from us. This is just wrong. I would expect to have full documentation (via pdf, whatever) _before_ my company buys the product. I would want to be able to code a complete proof-of-concept project and test it _before_ shelling out money. Just my opinion, -tim
RE: Orion in production - Let's sell support!
On Today, Kemp Randy-W18971 ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Tim has brought up an interesting point. Orion has granted free licenses to developers, which is a good concept. However, Orion not only has to compete with other commercial products like web-logic, but good open source EJB servers, like JBoss and JOnAS. It would only be fair to have good documentation to review, and to deploy a test sample to demonstrate Orion can work, for those funding the development and software purchases. We bought a copy of Orion for development, figuring that given the low price and the supposed availability of support for license holders, it would be worth the cost. Unfortunately, we have received zero useful support from Orion at this point. I'm trying to figure out if I've simply asked lousy/dumb questions, or if there really is zero support. Kinda hard to tell... Documenting something as complex as a J2EE server must be a daunting task, and I can't blame Orion for having trouble doing it. And even email support eats time like crazy. I suppose that's why it costs so much to buy the upscale servers, because they have the resources to provide documentation and real support. I still plan on working with Orion as long as I can stand the pain and can accomplish the job. I'm sure not tying myself to it though, knowing that any day I can run into a problem for which I might never find an answer. At that point we'll be forced to shovel out the bucks for a more customer-friendly server. Ah well, Gary Shea iTransact.com, Inc.
Re: Orion in production - Let's sell support!
Hello Jim, Couldn't agree more on the business plans. We are looking for partners to do support for money, if you're interested and your company has Orion knowledge, we'd be very happy to help you "officially" to get customers. However, you say that you have not bought a license yet and that means you have not yet bought any support from us. If you are serious in choosing Orion I think it can actually save you money to get a license when developing (even if you can get free developer licenses), since it will mean you get better support from us. However, the support you get for $1500 is, needless to say, limited. We can't put 100 hours into giving you support at that price and still have money left to develop the product. So we are going to provide more generous support at a higher price, both ourselves and through partners. We are speaking with multiple possible partners about outsourcing support and selling support packages and if you are interested or know someone who is interested in selling support and make decent money from it, feel free to contact us. Regards, Karl Avedal Jim Archer wrote: Hello all... --On Friday, October 20, 2000 5:35 PM -0300 "Juan Lorandi (Chile)" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And also, lack of support documentation is becoming now, as most developers are finishing their work and reach deployment time(from what I pick up of many mails in this list), a critical point about orion. Many of us are reaching the point where we have to prove no only that orion's the best, but that it also is a good business choice. This is unfairly hard due to little colaboration from Evermind's team regarding, as said, support documentation, tough it clearly seems to be changing. This is a key issue. There is an old saying that time is money. Not true in software. Time is far more valuable than money. Money can be raised but time can not. Orion is reasonably priced for the product itself. However, if using Orion means a lot of trial and error development and no official support from the vendor, the costs in extra consumption of developers time and oppertunity loss from delayed market entry could easily exceed the price tag of Weblogic. Don't get me wrong, I like Orion. I like it alot. Currently, our intention is to complete development on it and then license it and deploy with it and hopefully sell it with our product. This goal would be one heck of a lot easier to obtain if we had official support from the vendor. Right now, there are people here banging their heads on the wall just trying to guess at what works and what dossen't, whats implemented and whats not. It's tireing. Anybody want to help me start a business selling Orion support on a 900 number? Just charge several dollars a minute, on an incident by incident basis. If the support is competant, it would sell big. Heck, we could make more money then Evermind! Big Grin OK, just kidding, but this is a serious issue. Jim
RE: Orion in production - Let's sell support!
Hello all... --On Friday, October 20, 2000 5:35 PM -0300 "Juan Lorandi (Chile)" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And also, lack of support documentation is becoming now, as most developers are finishing their work and reach deployment time(from what I pick up of many mails in this list), a critical point about orion. Many of us are reaching the point where we have to prove no only that orion's the best, but that it also is a good business choice. This is unfairly hard due to little colaboration from Evermind's team regarding, as said, support documentation, tough it clearly seems to be changing. This is a key issue. There is an old saying that time is money. Not true in software. Time is far more valuable than money. Money can be raised but time can not. Orion is reasonably priced for the product itself. However, if using Orion means a lot of trial and error development and no official support from the vendor, the costs in extra consumption of developers time and oppertunity loss from delayed market entry could easily exceed the price tag of Weblogic. Don't get me wrong, I like Orion. I like it alot. Currently, our intention is to complete development on it and then license it and deploy with it and hopefully sell it with our product. This goal would be one heck of a lot easier to obtain if we had official support from the vendor. Right now, there are people here banging their heads on the wall just trying to guess at what works and what dossen't, whats implemented and whats not. It's tireing. Anybody want to help me start a business selling Orion support on a 900 number? Just charge several dollars a minute, on an incident by incident basis. If the support is competant, it would sell big. Heck, we could make more money then Evermind! Big Grin OK, just kidding, but this is a serious issue. Jim
